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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: It is a joy to be joined by Matt. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: remain Matt. Welcome from Las Vegas, Reinvent upon You Chip,

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Speaker 2: Ultra Clusters, Ultra Service Chip Development LLM, and we've got

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Speaker 2: talk about developer tools. There is a lot to get through.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with the ultra cluster. Can you just talk

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Speaker 2: to us a little bit about this more than one

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand chips that will be put in one single

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Speaker 2: era for AI hardware. Why do it? What will it offer?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something that we're building together with our

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Speaker 1: partner's anthropic and it's actually going to be several hundred

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Speaker 1: thousand chips, and they're focused on it's our new Trainium

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Speaker 1: two chips, and so we expect that this should deliver

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Speaker 1: them five times more compute than they've used in their

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Speaker 1: last model training, and so we're really excited about what

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Speaker 1: they're able to accomplish, and they're expecting to build much

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Speaker 1: bigger and much more capable AI models from that large

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Speaker 1: compute clubs.

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Speaker 2: Do we have a US location? Do we have an

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Speaker 2: exact timeframe other than early twenty twenty five?

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Speaker 1: No, No, no location to share with.

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Speaker 2: Matt what then, of the technical challenges paint the picture

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Speaker 2: for our audience how difficult this is in terms of cooling,

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Speaker 2: in terms of energy use. What has been the things

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Speaker 2: that you have to overcome with this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the first core innovation is that we built

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Speaker 1: our own chip actually, and so we've built our own chip.

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Speaker 1: It's called Trainium two, and we're quite excited about the

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Speaker 1: performance that we get out of that. And that's combined

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Speaker 1: all in these really large ultra clusters that combine sixty

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Speaker 1: four tranium chips all to deliver eighty three petaflops from

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Speaker 1: a single node. And so that is the first innovation

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Speaker 1: is our Amazon designed custom silicon that gives us really

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Speaker 1: unparalleled performance for generative AIA capabilities. And then we build

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Speaker 1: these together with high performance networking that we also build

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Speaker 1: in house, and then of course they'll be cooling and

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Speaker 1: heating and power that we need to go to go

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Speaker 1: build the data centers. But it really starts with that

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Speaker 1: silicon down at the level, and we innovate on the

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Speaker 1: entire stack of AI to make sure that we can

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Speaker 1: control everything that goes into those clusters.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk to us a little bit compare and

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Speaker 2: contrast here this is about less dependency on Nvidio GPUs

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Speaker 2: too many ways, doing an alternative for your clients. What

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Speaker 2: sort of cost saving will clients get? What sort of

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Speaker 2: energy and efficiency will they get?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, first of all, I think we like to

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Speaker 1: think of it as a supplement to in video GPUs

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Speaker 1: and Vidia has a fantastic product that team has done

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Speaker 1: an outstanding job executing, and we think that the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of workloads are going to continue to run in

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Speaker 1: video processors for a long time. But customers want choice,

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Speaker 1: and they want choice that can give them some lower

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Speaker 1: cost options. And we think that for certain workloads, for

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Speaker 1: many workloads, Trainium two can give customers thirty to forty

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Speaker 1: percent cost performance benefits over today's GPU powered instances. And

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Speaker 1: so we think that that's a huge win for customers,

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Speaker 1: particularly as they're looking to lower the cost of Generator

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Speaker 1: I workloads. But we'll be great partners with Nvidia and

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Speaker 1: continue to lean in on building great technologies together with

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Speaker 1: them for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Train two, Trainium two available, TRAININGUM three in the works.

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Speaker 2: And all of this is as Nvidia at the moment

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Speaker 2: is estimated has about ninety five percent market shared. Do

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Speaker 2: you agree with that sort of number they have and

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Speaker 2: what sort of area do you think that that will

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Speaker 2: come down to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's probably higher than that.

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Speaker 1: I think that the vast majority of workloads in generative

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Speaker 1: AI today run on in Nvidia technology and they've absolutely

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Speaker 1: been the leaders in that space. But we do think

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Speaker 1: we hear from customers that they want choice, and just

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Speaker 1: with our processors where we're type partners with Intel and

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Speaker 1: with AMD, but we decided to go build a general

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Speaker 1: purpose processor are called Graviton, and it's been hugely successful

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Speaker 1: with our customers. But we also provide lots of Intel

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Speaker 1: and lots of AMD processors in our cloud today and

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Speaker 1: those businesses continue to grow. So I expect that our

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Speaker 1: usage of Nvidia will continue to grow from our customers

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Speaker 1: and that choice is really going to be powerful. And

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Speaker 1: as you see this explosion of generative AI usage, I

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Speaker 1: think there's going to be plenty of business for multiple

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Speaker 1: different people to be successful.

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Speaker 2: I keep partners Intel. How concerned have you been about

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Speaker 2: the change at the top.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's okay. I wish pat the best. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's I know Patent, he's been a good partner of ours,

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Speaker 1: but we've been partners with Intel for a long time.

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Speaker 1: It's been eighteen years since we launched our first Intel

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Speaker 1: instance when AWS and EC two first launched, and will

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Speaker 1: continue to be great partners with Intel, and they have

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Speaker 1: a great technology team there, and we look forward to

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Speaker 1: to continuing to roll out the latest technologies from Intel

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Speaker 1: for our customers to be able to use, and.

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Speaker 2: He've been continuing to roll out, as you say in

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Speaker 2: video offerings last time you're on, we're talking about Blackwell.

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Speaker 2: Of course, many have been frustrated, perhaps by some slowness

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Speaker 2: to market there. When do you anticipate that Blackwell will

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Speaker 2: be unfolding? And how difficult has it been to ensure

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Speaker 2: the supply side.

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Speaker 1: Is there.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: They've obviously had some manufacturing things that they're going through,

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Speaker 1: but we're very excited about it. I think the early

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Speaker 1: returns and the early looks at Blackwell look fantastic. We

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Speaker 1: expect almost a two and a half time's gain in

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Speaker 1: the compute power that you get from Blackwell that we

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Speaker 1: saw from H one hundreds, and so I think it'll

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Speaker 1: be a really material jump for customers once we get

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Speaker 1: those out, and you know, I think those will be

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Speaker 1: early next year, and we're excited about putting them into

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Speaker 1: customer's hands, and we'll get them out there as soon

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Speaker 1: as they're available.

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Speaker 2: Investors, though, they find it wild, this whole frenemy existence

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Speaker 2: that's going on. Do you truly think that investors here think, oh,

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Speaker 2: we want to see in video dependency as well as

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Speaker 2: AWS having its own offerings. Is that something you think

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Speaker 2: everyone can swallow? Or do you think ultimately there will

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Speaker 2: be a broadening out other than just in video winning all.

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Speaker 1: Look, I do think it's a partner if you think

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Speaker 1: about AWS. We started from the very beginning thinking about

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Speaker 1: this partnership mindset, and we built the entire business around

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Speaker 1: AWS thinking about how AWS would have services and our

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Speaker 1: partners would have services, and that there's plenty of space

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Speaker 1: for all of us to really grow and build our businesses.

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Speaker 1: And that is true for software providers, true for service providers,

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Speaker 1: and it's true for technology providers. And so I think

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Speaker 1: that we've proven time and time again over the last

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Speaker 1: eighteen years that AWS can have products and our partners

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Speaker 1: can have products, and then as we make them all available,

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Speaker 1: that the whole, the whole pie gets bigger. And so

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Speaker 1: I think there's plenty of opportunity for both and so

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Speaker 1: it really isn't. I think it makes for a fun

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Speaker 1: narrative that it's either or. But we're great partners with

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Speaker 1: n Video. We will continue to be, And this is

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Speaker 1: all about making the pie get bigger.

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Speaker 2: We love fun narratives. US journalists talk about that pie.

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Speaker 2: When it's to do with large language models. You are

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Speaker 2: unveiling Nova, you're really saying that the Nova offering compares

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Speaker 2: really well to other offerings out there when it comes

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Speaker 2: to multimodi multimodal, but also from a cost perspective and

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Speaker 2: efficiency perspective. Why invest so much in LLM provisions when

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Speaker 2: you already offer the rest?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, this is all about giving customers more choice.

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Speaker 1: I think we as Amazon were investing in these models

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Speaker 1: because we couldn't find the exact right mix of capabilities

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Speaker 1: and customizations and things that we needed internally, so we

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Speaker 1: started building them. And as we started building these, we

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Speaker 1: saw that these models were actually getting quite good. The

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Speaker 1: benchmarks were really good, and we were seeing some good

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Speaker 1: capabilities come out of there. And our models are quite

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Speaker 1: good at some particular areas. They're very good at executing

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Speaker 1: agentic workflows. They're really good at pulling knowledge out of

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Speaker 1: a RAG index there and they're very very low latency

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Speaker 1: and low cost, and so we think that that capability

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Speaker 1: is going to be really compelling for a lot of

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Speaker 1: use cases. We found use cases inside of Amazon, but

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Speaker 1: even inside of Amazon, we use a mix of different models.

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Speaker 1: We use models from Anthropic, we use models from Meta

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Speaker 1: and Lama, we use models from a bunch of different sources,

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Speaker 1: and so I think that hopefully customers see a lot

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Speaker 1: of value from these new Nova models, but we also

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Speaker 1: expect that customers are going to combine lots of different

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Speaker 1: models in lots of different ways.

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Speaker 2: You haven't yet got the access to open ai, and

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Speaker 2: for obvious reasons, with their relationship with Microsoft, would you

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Speaker 2: think that that will at some point unfold.

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Speaker 1: Look, I think my view is anytime customers demand something

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Speaker 1: that eventually that sorts its way out. And I think

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Speaker 1: open Ai obviously has a great set of models as well,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure many of our customers would love to

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Speaker 1: have those available in Bedrock as well, and we'd love

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Speaker 1: to support those there. And you know, I think I'd

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Speaker 1: look at and we have a long term view on this,

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Speaker 1: and over the long term, we'd like to make every

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Speaker 1: technology available inside of Amazon and inside of AWS to use,

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Speaker 1: and that means all the models that are out there,

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Speaker 1: we'd love to offer them at Bedrock. All the software

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Speaker 1: that's out there, we'd love to offer and make sure

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Speaker 1: that it's available inside of AWS. Every service that everyone

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Speaker 1: else in third parties are providing we want to make available.

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Speaker 1: And that all goes back to that choice story. And

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Speaker 1: so in the fullness of time, I believe that we

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Speaker 1: would love open AI models inside of AWS. We absolutely

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Speaker 1: it's you know, were we listen to our customers and

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Speaker 1: if that's something the customers want, we're absolutely game. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: with a partnership, it takes multiple sources and there's probably

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Speaker 1: some complexities in there, as you allude to, but I

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Speaker 1: think in the fullness of time it likely is the case.

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Speaker 2: In the here and now. You spelled out on the

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Speaker 2: previous that AI is already a multi billion dollar business

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Speaker 2: growing at more than one hundred percent. Can you give

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Speaker 2: us any more detailed numbers as to how large AAAI

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Speaker 2: offering is for AWS?

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Speaker 1: Now, You're right, it is a multi billion dollar business

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Speaker 1: for us, and it's really growing rapidly. Take Bedrock, which

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Speaker 1: is our platform that lots of customers are building all

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Speaker 1: of their production AI applications on top of bedrock has

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Speaker 1: grown the number of users five x in the last

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Speaker 1: year alone, so it is really a rocket ship growth

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Speaker 1: of people building this. I think what's really exciting is

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Speaker 1: that people are using bedrock not just to do proof

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Speaker 1: of concepts, but they're using it to really deeply integrate

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Speaker 1: with their own enterprise data and to launcher production applications,

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Speaker 1: which I think is a particularly telling sign of where

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Speaker 1: the technology is going, where.

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Speaker 2: It's evolved to and clients willing to spend it a

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Speaker 2: time of a lot of uncertainty that we've got a

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Speaker 2: new administration coming in, do you see any concerns in

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Speaker 2: terms of well geopolitics, your road supply chain relationship with TSMC,

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Speaker 2: for example.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, I think, look, we've we've worked with

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Speaker 1: various administrations all throughout the last eighteen years that AWS

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Speaker 1: has been around, and we're really excited to work with

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Speaker 1: this administration. You know. I think that everybody is interested

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Speaker 1: in ensuring that we have technology continuity and and there's

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Speaker 1: a ton of opportunity here like that this is how

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Speaker 1: we drive the economy, and I think all administrations are

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Speaker 1: interested in continuing to make sure that we're able to

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Speaker 1: drive the economy forward, and and AWS is a big

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Speaker 1: enabler of that, and so we're excited to work with

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Speaker 1: the new administration. I think we're we're obviously anxiously watched

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Speaker 1: all of the geopolitical events all around the world to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we're trying to insulate our customers as

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Speaker 1: much as possible from any eventuality. But but you know,

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Speaker 1: I think we're we're cautiously optimistic that we're in a

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Speaker 1: good spot.

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Speaker 2: You might have been cautiously watching what was happening in

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Speaker 2: South Korea today amid your own event any exposure there.

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Speaker 1: Matt, Sorry I missed that I was on stage, so

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Speaker 1: just I'm from the stage right here to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: So okay, I understood, But that in terms of the

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Speaker 2: South Korean political destabilization, nothing that was a worry there.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, look, we have a we have a

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Speaker 1: region in South Korea, and we have many of our

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Speaker 1: customers that operate in South Korea and and will continue

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Speaker 1: to support them and and operate with with with any

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Speaker 1: with ever whichever government is in operation.

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Speaker 2: We thank you so much for your time rushing off

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Speaker 2: a stage A w S ce O Matt Garman