Speaker 1: Amy and TJ presents Aubrey Oday covering the Didty trial.
Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O'Day covering
Speaker 1: the Diddy trial and TJ Holmes here alongside my partner
Speaker 1: Amy Robach, and we have been getting help along the
Speaker 1: way and covering the Didty trial from someone who has
Speaker 1: insight that we definitely right now need robes after we
Speaker 1: just finished another full day of testimony in the trial,
Speaker 1: and this is certainly one we could use Aubrey's context
Speaker 1: in understanding what happened one witness on the stand for
Speaker 1: a full day.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 3: Her name is hard to forget. Capricorn Clark and Aubrey.
Speaker 3: You read everything that this star witness told jurors yesterday
Speaker 3: because she had a lot to say in some ways.
Speaker 3: In a lot of ways, she corroborated what we heard
Speaker 3: from Cassie Ventura, but she also pokes some holes in
Speaker 3: what she testified to at least left some questions for jurors.
Speaker 3: What was your overall impression? You know Capricorn, you've met Capricorn,
Speaker 3: you've worked alongside Capricorn. What was your take on her
Speaker 3: testimony yesterday?
Speaker 4: Her story and what she went through was horrific.
Speaker 5: Her desire to please Diddy and to be great at
Speaker 5: her job is exactly as she stated it. From morning
Speaker 5: until the next morning at four am, she would work NonStop. Food, water,
Speaker 5: and your overall mental health was not really ever considered
Speaker 5: over in that area. And so it's not like there
Speaker 5: was any professional setting or professional graces given to the employees.
Speaker 5: And she established many things from kidnapping that's going to
Speaker 5: be playing into the Rico charge. There's violence, weapons breaking, kidnapping,
Speaker 5: even the rituals of her day one coming from Death Row,
Speaker 5: coming from Sug moving over there. Day one was like
Speaker 5: Central Park and if you ever, you know, play with me,
Speaker 5: you'll end up dead. Threats of violence, threat threats of death.
Speaker 5: And one thing I will say, in the music industry,
Speaker 5: especially in hip hop, a lot of people will threaten death.
Speaker 5: There's death talking about, you know, talked about a lot
Speaker 5: in music. Not many people take that seriously enough to
Speaker 5: uh fall in line and do what's needed to be
Speaker 5: done for the person that's threatening them. A lot of
Speaker 5: people will challenge back or will you know, either make
Speaker 5: a spectacle of it in order to sell records, or
Speaker 5: they will you know, whatever they choose to do. It's
Speaker 5: more of an artistic presentation than it is a fear
Speaker 5: in these situations that are being testified to. This is
Speaker 5: direct fear. This is nobody understanding. This is a knowledge
Speaker 5: from a lot of people now that truly believed that
Speaker 5: he'd do exactly as he said he would, Which tells
Speaker 5: me that even prior to me being there, that in
Speaker 5: the nineties, there has to have been a lot of
Speaker 5: information that a lot of people were aware of in
Speaker 5: regards to how dangerous this human could be. Potentially, because
Speaker 5: the threats of being taken out seemed to have been
Speaker 5: very serious to all of these people, they didn't bat
Speaker 5: an eye and they didn't think.
Speaker 4: It was false.
Speaker 5: Bravado Capricorn was very interesting because there was always this
Speaker 5: dynamic of you know, she there felt like there was
Speaker 5: a competitive dynamic, like as if there were if there
Speaker 5: were certain people that she felt were in her way
Speaker 5: or whatever. There felt, in my opinion, this like you know,
Speaker 5: just a dislike.
Speaker 4: So I didn't.
Speaker 5: I was never on the winning side of that. Unfortunately.
Speaker 5: Maybe she thought that there was something with me and
Speaker 5: Diddy or whatever, but I didn't ever get to see
Speaker 5: the winning sides. There were some times where I got
Speaker 5: to see like good good aspects of her personality. But
Speaker 5: I did notice even in the testimony she was saying
Speaker 5: how there were moments where she felt like pushed out
Speaker 5: by Cassie and even had moments where she disliked her.
Speaker 4: Then there's moments where she brought her back in.
Speaker 5: But on an overall understanding of Capricorn, I was thinking
Speaker 5: that way more was going to be told. She definitely,
Speaker 5: in my opinion, kept some things in, possibly because they
Speaker 5: don't pertain, or possibly because of other situations.
Speaker 1: Legally, I'll repect of something you said at the beginning,
Speaker 1: and this could help us understand Capricorn a little better.
Speaker 1: She talked about possibly wanting to be a protector or diddy,
Speaker 1: and then you were speaking kind of how she was
Speaker 1: almost possessive and like nobody gets more attention from him
Speaker 1: than I do, or I'm the one that's the gatekeeper.
Speaker 1: Which was it or was it a balance of he
Speaker 1: just give us some more context for what she felt
Speaker 1: she represented and wanted to be the ditty.
Speaker 5: I think there's that balance. So I think she you know,
Speaker 5: she did state in her testimony she would know best, right.
Speaker 5: She stated in her testimony that she felt protective over him,
Speaker 5: that if she wasn't around, that he could get himself
Speaker 5: into trouble. That she would like basically handle all the
Speaker 5: ins and outs of all the things that were going on,
Speaker 5: and a lot of those things apparently could lead to
Speaker 5: a lot of trouble for people or for Puff And
Speaker 5: so she was like she took her responsibility of protecting
Speaker 5: him very seriously. And coming from death Row, which you
Speaker 5: know infamously in the nineties the two West and East
Speaker 5: battles were Death Row and Bad Boy. Coming from Death
Speaker 5: Row moving over to Bad Boy and having a fierce
Speaker 5: protection and loyalty to Diddy is there's a lot to
Speaker 5: unpack there. This is a human that knows a lot
Speaker 5: of things, and I believe that with what she established,
Speaker 5: I mean, there are a lot of parts of the story.
Speaker 5: She talked about being abused by him, that's another person.
Speaker 5: Now she's part of an enterprise of people. There was
Speaker 5: somebody with her inside of her of his home. They
Speaker 5: established even when Diddy and the other person went inside
Speaker 5: Cutty's home and she was left in the car that
Speaker 5: she called Cassie from a burner phone. I don't carry
Speaker 5: around burner phones, do you I mean, you gotta be
Speaker 5: you gotta be into some serious stuff if you're if
Speaker 5: you've got a pocket full of burner phones just in case.
Speaker 5: I mean, I've never even walked by a burner phone
Speaker 5: and thought of purchasing it. So like, you know the
Speaker 5: fact that there was just a burner phone ready, and
Speaker 5: the she had to sit on his lap with the
Speaker 5: gun pointed out at her. I don't I don't understand
Speaker 5: the sitting on the lap part. I don't know exactly
Speaker 5: what it all says, but I know it says force,
Speaker 5: and I know it says coercion. And I know that
Speaker 5: a lot of people felt like they were very unsafe
Speaker 5: and they weren't willing to challenge that, and they definitely
Speaker 5: didn't think that he was just.
Speaker 4: On one and doing the most.
Speaker 5: I think they feel like their lives genuinely would be
Speaker 5: in danger. It seems over and over again that we're
Speaker 5: establishing that now with multiple people in the enterprise. Now,
Speaker 5: if you pay attention in regards to the Rico charge racketeering,
Speaker 5: if you pay attention to what happened to Keith in
Speaker 5: that Nexium trial, they were able to establish sex trafficking
Speaker 5: off of a smaller group of people in a smaller scope,
Speaker 5: just a handful of people that basically worked with him
Speaker 5: in order to achieve the things that he instructed them
Speaker 5: to do that were criminal.
Speaker 4: And next the guy from Nexium's in prison.
Speaker 5: So I think they're getting right about there with reaching
Speaker 5: the bar on sex trafficking. Definitely have the possessing people
Speaker 5: across state lines. If we're getting into racketeering things like this,
Speaker 5: we're talking about kidnapping, we're talking about explosives where we've
Speaker 5: now tied everything to everyone, and there are more people
Speaker 5: that are being named in every testimony, and it kind
Speaker 5: of seems like the trajectory of what the prosecution is
Speaker 5: establishing is here's the name. Might not mean anything to
Speaker 5: you right now, but it will when we come back
Speaker 5: next week, because then we see that person taking the
Speaker 5: stand and filling in all of the holes of the picture.
Speaker 3: Aubrey, I'm curious A lot was made of Capricorn's emotions.
Speaker 3: She was by everyone who was in the courtroom. Witnesses
Speaker 3: described for as uncontrollably sobbing when she was talking about
Speaker 3: the emails, when she was begging for forgiveness for him
Speaker 3: to let her return. I mean, this is a twenty
Speaker 3: year period where she says she experienced to witness all
Speaker 3: of these things, and yet even as late as last spring,
Speaker 3: she was begging to come back in some role.
Speaker 2: All of that emotion, all of those tears. What did
Speaker 2: you think of that?
Speaker 3: Like, you know her, at least you've been around her,
Speaker 3: what did you think of that?
Speaker 5: Kind of always said this in different ways. There are
Speaker 5: things about Diddy that are all encompassing, and for some people,
Speaker 5: when he's proud of you, you almost feel you know.
Speaker 5: I talked with a psychologist about that on our podcast,
Speaker 5: and she said to me, in your childhood or in general,
Speaker 5: if you have any type of abandonment or self confidence
Speaker 5: issues in different levels growing up, that when you get
Speaker 5: in front of somebody like that, they can really grab
Speaker 5: a hold of you. And the second that you are abused, traumatized,
Speaker 5: or put in a very scary, fearful situation, your body
Speaker 5: almost clings up and goes into shock. And the only
Speaker 5: way you ever get that relief is when they come
Speaker 5: back you and they want you again. Then you feel
Speaker 5: like you've got your life back. If they're doing things
Speaker 5: like holding your home, your car, your bank accounts, your laptops,
Speaker 5: et cetera. I mean, Capricorn talked about she had a
Speaker 5: life and an entire established career, and then she didn't.
Speaker 5: And Capricorn was known around the time I was there,
Speaker 5: she was a bad bitch. She was running the streets,
Speaker 5: she was respected everywhere. She could go around and do
Speaker 5: whatever she wanted to do. She knew every I mean
Speaker 5: I was. I was intimidated by her, like, let me
Speaker 5: not piss her off, because her attitude is real poignant
Speaker 5: when she doesn't like you, and when she does like you,
Speaker 5: it seems like she looks out for you.
Speaker 4: But she was friends with kim Porter.
Speaker 5: She even wrote in the comment that we read on
Speaker 5: in an episode prior that kim Porter was the only
Speaker 5: one that stayed a real one to the very end.
Speaker 5: I mean, that's an important piece of all of this,
Speaker 5: is everything starts to come full circle.
Speaker 1: How much did did he respect, appreciate, or even need
Speaker 1: Tepricorn Clark. It sounded like she was really a gatekeeper
Speaker 1: for a lot of things.
Speaker 5: There were at that point the gatekeepers that I saw,
Speaker 5: besides his big old besides all of the men that
Speaker 5: were part of the establishment, some who I can personally
Speaker 5: say one sexually assaulted me one sexually assaulted potentially allegedly
Speaker 5: one of my band members. There was a lot of
Speaker 5: things going on with the men over there. As far
Speaker 5: as the women go, I was always we were always
Speaker 5: around Capricorn and a woman named Francesca Sparrow who was
Speaker 5: found I believed, and that was I don't know how
Speaker 5: long of a period after of suing Diddy and bad
Speaker 5: Boy for a significant amount of money, and then you know,
Speaker 5: when Capricorn got out and fran was out, seems.
Speaker 4: Like KK came in.
Speaker 5: And if you do a little research on some of
Speaker 5: the civil suits and some of the claims being made
Speaker 5: on the type of things that KK allegedly could have
Speaker 5: been involved in, it sounds like he kind of always
Speaker 5: had somebody in that role that maybe understood.
Speaker 4: On a deeper level. How and here's the thing.
Speaker 5: Hurt people. Hurt people, right. I had moments where I
Speaker 5: saw things. I can't speak about them because Netflix has
Speaker 5: the exclusivity on them, but there were times where I
Speaker 5: witnessed things that showed a human in pain, suffering a
Speaker 5: little bit in my opinion, So if she saw things
Speaker 5: like that often, then she might have felt a fierce
Speaker 5: loyalty to him, and also It's a commonly known thing
Speaker 5: that black women just naturally protect black men. They are
Speaker 5: just so historically have been so disenfranchised by the system,
Speaker 5: so attacked and brutal brutalized by the system, that there's
Speaker 5: just a different type of loyalty that exists in the community.
Speaker 5: Then I would necessarily even understand. And so I think
Speaker 5: that there probably is many things at play when it
Speaker 5: comes to loving somebody and wanting to protect them from
Speaker 5: themselves and then also hating them so much.
Speaker 4: For how much they never.
Speaker 5: Really gave a fuck about you, and how much you
Speaker 5: sacrificed for them. I think maybe those where those tears
Speaker 5: come from. Also, I don't know that. Also, I don't
Speaker 5: know how much of her story, you know, was able
Speaker 5: to be told on the stand, But when you get
Speaker 5: to all of the parts of the story, there were
Speaker 5: some personal things that were probably very devastating and horrific
Speaker 5: for her to have experienced, and that could potentially also
Speaker 5: be where the tears are coming from.
Speaker 1: Can I stop you there, because you mentioned it earlier,
Speaker 1: we're listening to it from the outside. We just met
Speaker 1: Capricorn Clark, you will, just through her testimony. We don't
Speaker 1: know much about this lady, but our jarles were dropped
Speaker 1: and reading all the testimony, your first reaction was, Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm surprised she didn't go further than she did.
Speaker 2: Why is that?
Speaker 1: And you kind of alluded to it?
Speaker 5: There?
Speaker 1: Can you expound as much as you can on what
Speaker 1: you mean by there's more for her to say that
Speaker 1: she didn't say and why she didn't say.
Speaker 5: Somebody else made this statement. It wouldn't have been coming
Speaker 5: from any of us in the room. I can just
Speaker 5: google quickly an article online and we all know we
Speaker 5: have our battles with these articles online. But Suge Knight,
Speaker 5: who has also been around all of these people for
Speaker 5: a very long time, also isamiliar with Capricorn as she
Speaker 5: worked at death Row prior.
Speaker 4: To going to Bad Boy.
Speaker 5: He stated that did he beat the shit out of
Speaker 5: that bitch? Is what the title of the article is.
Speaker 5: Shug on his podcast Collect Call with Suge Knight Front
Speaker 5: that he does from prison, talks about why Puffy done.
Speaker 5: What Puffy did or what Puffy do is not a surprise.
Speaker 5: Everyone knows what it is. I mean, you got to
Speaker 5: be able to that type of shit to a woman
Speaker 5: and to other women.
Speaker 4: But it's not like it's news.
Speaker 5: So basically kind of establishing that everyone knows he was
Speaker 5: doing this to people all the way back then, same
Speaker 5: time he beat the shit out of motherfucking Cassie. This
Speaker 5: is a quote not my language. He had an assistant
Speaker 5: by the name of Capricorn. He continued. He felt cap
Speaker 5: was keeping this shit on the low about if she
Speaker 5: was messing with Cutty or not. Puff beat the shit
Speaker 5: out of that bitch. Not only did he beat the
Speaker 5: shit out of her, it was an interscope person, an
Speaker 5: interscope check that paid her to settle so he wouldn't
Speaker 5: go to jail.
Speaker 3: Does it seem like he's referring to the Central Park
Speaker 3: incident she discussed. Maybe she just didn't go into as
Speaker 3: much detail about what, at least should Knights has happened.
Speaker 5: It seems like there came a point where she couldn't
Speaker 5: take it anymore. I'm not exactly sure what incident that was,
Speaker 5: but it sounds like it was so bad that not
Speaker 5: even bad Boy or did He could put their name
Speaker 5: anywhere near the check that paid her off allegedly. And
Speaker 5: when I say to you guys that we need a
Speaker 5: systematic change in the music industry. In one man's trial
Speaker 5: and potential convictions or not is not going to change anything.
Speaker 4: Is because I don't know what.
Speaker 5: You guys feel about out if what should Knight said
Speaker 5: is true and there is a money trail or other
Speaker 5: people that are aware of this and confirm it can
Speaker 5: confirm it. What do you guys feel about a music
Speaker 5: label allegedly picking up the responsibility of someone being so
Speaker 5: beaten that it got to a point where jail time
Speaker 5: was potentially being considered and the person allegedly involved could
Speaker 5: not even pay the person off. And we know that
Speaker 5: there's been a whole lot of payments to a whole
Speaker 5: lot of people, according to a whole lot of civil
Speaker 5: lawsuits eighty over eighty or around eighty to be exact,
Speaker 5: so far allegedly. For me, what it feels like is
Speaker 5: is like, I don't know, you could potentially I'm not
Speaker 5: saying that this was what was done, but I know
Speaker 5: when we had platinum albums and we're making people millions
Speaker 5: of dollars that we were always told we weren't seeing
Speaker 5: any money because it was being recouped.
Speaker 4: That's a word that they love to use, recoop, recoop, recoop.
Speaker 5: I'll never forget the word. It haunts me in my
Speaker 5: motherfucking sleep. But if you think about it, if you
Speaker 5: had to pay off a big chunk of money to somebody,
Speaker 5: you could just recoop it.
Speaker 4: Because at the.
Speaker 5: Time, if what Shug says is true and Innerscope did
Speaker 5: make the payment, Interscope was also who was in charge
Speaker 5: of dirty money. They were the ones backing the project
Speaker 5: to my knowledge, So if a check was made, I'm
Speaker 5: not saying that this is what occurred, but I'm sure
Speaker 5: in the industry in general, they throw a lot of
Speaker 5: different things under that recoop name. You just keep hearing
Speaker 5: about the recoop. You never actually really see the check. Well,
Speaker 5: so so you know, could somebody's beating have just been
Speaker 5: a recoup owed back by them from the artists that they, uh, you.
Speaker 4: Know, represented.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 4: This is all alleged.
Speaker 5: This is all just me, you know, opinions and us
Speaker 5: bantering back and forth about what these things could possibly
Speaker 5: mean that people have stated publicly that are in the industry.
Speaker 5: But I do remember our manager at one point, a
Speaker 5: man that I have a large amount of respect for,
Speaker 5: Johnny Wright, had to sit down with me at one
Speaker 5: point and he did say to me, you got to
Speaker 5: get this group together, and like, you know, the.
Speaker 4: Pressure's on you.
Speaker 5: And I was like, why, we're all equal, we're all stars,
Speaker 5: we're all five choosing to not make anyone a lead.
Speaker 5: We had to go in and fight for that continuously
Speaker 5: vocally on the tracks. And he was like, well, the
Speaker 5: audience and the fans have decided it's you, so so
Speaker 5: whether you like that or not, it is what it is.
Speaker 5: And he said to me, the most replaceable person in
Speaker 5: this situation is the artists, the managers, the CPAs, the agents,
Speaker 5: the publicists, the A and rs, the record labels. They're
Speaker 5: all going to be there for the next twenty five
Speaker 5: girl groups after you, and they were there for the
Speaker 5: twenty five girl groups before you. The artist is the
Speaker 5: most replaceable part. And the sad thing that the fans
Speaker 5: don't understand is they loved us.
Speaker 4: They came and paid for.
Speaker 5: The artists for us, and we are the last to
Speaker 5: be paid, never were paid in most regards. And the
Speaker 5: bigger problem in all of that is we're the most replaceable.
Speaker 5: And even if you don't mess it all up, like
Speaker 5: they really tried hard to make it a Danity Kane
Speaker 5: inner turmoil that couldn't be controlled and it was us
Speaker 5: that were to blame.
Speaker 4: You know, Diddy pointed me.
Speaker 5: Out specifically because in my opinion, now that I've seen
Speaker 5: more and understand more of what was going on during
Speaker 5: that time, it's likely that they needed my fan base
Speaker 5: to turn against me and to move on to a
Speaker 5: new project that he was moving one of my bandmates onto. Potentially,
Speaker 5: in my opinion, that could be something.
Speaker 4: That was going on.
Speaker 5: But I know that in all of these situations that
Speaker 5: when an artist is the most replaceable part, that there's
Speaker 5: something wrong with the music industry, the business.
Speaker 4: There's something wrong with that.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: Something you talked about Aubrey was being blacklisted once you
Speaker 3: were fired from Danity Kane by Diddy.
Speaker 4: And Capricorn said that too.
Speaker 3: Absolutely what we heard from Capricorn on the stand, So
Speaker 3: that was an interesting oversation she had, or at least
Speaker 3: the testimony she was giving, talking about being blacklisted and
Speaker 3: perhaps one of the reasons why she kept coming back because.
Speaker 2: She said she could not find work.
Speaker 3: She describes being followed while she was at the Creative
Speaker 3: Artist Agency, literally being tailed and trailed and incapable of
Speaker 3: finding work. That reads true for you because your experience
Speaker 3: was similar guess.
Speaker 5: Yeah, my experience was more humiliating, but yeah, a bunch
Speaker 5: of record labels saying they want me, having me meet
Speaker 5: up at the Beverly Hills Hotel, asking me to dance,
Speaker 5: putting on track after track into a room full of
Speaker 5: like forty people passing a blunt around. I remember dancing
Speaker 5: so hard at one point I knocked a lamp off
Speaker 5: a table. I was trying my damn just to they
Speaker 5: just I just remember I have nightmares in my head
Speaker 5: from the j LO song that they kept on repeat.
Speaker 5: I'll if when I hear it, I want to, like
Speaker 5: I get I could be dead danger to myself when
Speaker 5: that song comes on.
Speaker 1: You gotta tell what song?
Speaker 5: Oh god, I can't even I don't even want to
Speaker 5: think about it. But the song that was put on
Speaker 5: one of them in repeat was a j Lo's song,
Speaker 5: and I just like, after a few eight counts it
Speaker 5: usually stops, but it just wasn't stopping. And then you know,
Speaker 5: the personallyaves the room, comes back in and is like, oh,
Speaker 5: we just got the call, like you're you're untouchable, Hey,
Speaker 5: thanks for coming in, and me just being like mortified
Speaker 5: and humiliated, and I didn't understand even at the time,
Speaker 5: and it was a really big uh it was.
Speaker 4: It was a comedy bit for them.
Speaker 5: For me, I thought that I failed, and I was
Speaker 5: whipping my head around and doing spins so hard that
Speaker 5: I was knocking shit off of tables.
Speaker 3: Sweet okay, let's well fix It speaks to Ditty's reach power.
Speaker 1: He had still wondering about was j Lo song But
Speaker 1: we will we will ask you about that later. Let's
Speaker 1: get back to Capricorn for a second. Of such a
Speaker 1: central part of her testimony had to do with her
Speaker 1: being the one that was there. She was a witness
Speaker 1: to the night that did he allegedly went to Cuddie's
Speaker 1: house broke In was upset about finding out that Cuddy
Speaker 1: was dating Cassid. Now, the big part of this is
Speaker 1: that she says she was not a willing passenger along
Speaker 1: for that ride.
Speaker 5: No, he showed up at her apartment for the very
Speaker 5: first time. He had never gone there with the gun,
Speaker 5: fold her in the car, made her sit on his
Speaker 5: lap with the gun. I don't know how she snuck
Speaker 5: a burner phone, but somehow she had a burner phone
Speaker 5: was able to warn Cassie and Cutty that they were
Speaker 5: in his house well.
Speaker 1: Before they left. Let's do that chronologically. Yes, we're going
Speaker 1: to get to that point. But even before they left
Speaker 1: the house. This is very key because they're arguing. The
Speaker 1: defense is that she went willingly because she considered herself
Speaker 1: his protector and didn't want him to do something stupid.
Speaker 1: She says, she was absolutely not a willing participant and
Speaker 1: was forced to go. That's key because was she kidnapped
Speaker 1: or not? What did you make of how she handled testifying?
Speaker 1: Were you there to protect them or were you there
Speaker 1: against you will?
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's complicated to me. What you just said made
Speaker 5: my head recognizing consistency.
Speaker 4: I didn't realize it was one or the other.
Speaker 5: I thought that she had testified to being forced into
Speaker 5: the car by a gunpoint, and.
Speaker 1: The defense called her on. They said, well, previously, you
Speaker 1: stated that you were his protector and you wanted to
Speaker 1: go with him that night because you quote didn't want
Speaker 1: him to do something stupid. They recalled that from a
Speaker 1: previous statement she made.
Speaker 4: In that previous interview.
Speaker 5: Was that was she talking specifically in regards to this
Speaker 5: night in this event or was it it just an
Speaker 5: overall that night in that event.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she doesn't remember making that statement, but the defense
Speaker 3: said you did.
Speaker 5: Well. Let me tell you one bit of grace that
Speaker 5: I give a lot of people. When this first happened,
Speaker 5: not one person thought that anything would change. Once the
Speaker 5: settlement went down, within like twenty four hours, it was gone.
Speaker 5: Everyone like had twenty four hours where they were like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, justice could be real.
Speaker 4: And then when it stopped, everyone sunk back and.
Speaker 5: Was like, I guess we all are just gonna still
Speaker 5: be living in the lie. And then when the investigators came,
Speaker 5: there was hope. Then people thought that you know, everybody
Speaker 5: on this everybody in this streets had word and talks
Speaker 5: to whoever they talked to, and it was rumored that
Speaker 5: the indictment would happen at a certain time, and it
Speaker 5: wasn't happening, and then all of a sudden it happens,
Speaker 5: and then they you know, the raid happens, the indictment
Speaker 5: happens during that, and then the Cassie video drops. The
Speaker 5: Cassie video drop allowed a lot of people to feel
Speaker 5: safer to come forward. But when I tell you that
Speaker 5: people were very scared. It was a real thing. If
Speaker 5: you knew anything about his behavior, if you had any
Speaker 5: proof of his behavior, if you were there or witnessed
Speaker 5: or was on the other end of any of his
Speaker 5: behavior from smaller to very very large, were learning you
Speaker 5: were scared. I had people literally saying, oh, what is
Speaker 5: this bo was this bit scared of? Blah blah blah.
Speaker 5: Well watch the Netflix documentary and you'll be able to
Speaker 5: hear what I was scared of.
Speaker 4: But the periods of scared TJ.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know how many pictures of license
Speaker 5: plates I have on my phone of cars outside my
Speaker 5: home that I had never seen for months. At one point,
Speaker 5: I literally got a knife out of my kitchen and
Speaker 5: walked outside my gate and just waved it in the
Speaker 5: air and went to every single car, like, listen, you
Speaker 5: do not live on the street. You have been parked
Speaker 5: here with your phone up for the past two hours.
Speaker 5: Who the fuck are you and what is it that
Speaker 5: you want? Like the paranoia was seeping in. I would
Speaker 5: ask my boyfriend at the time, am I being a
Speaker 5: Karen or is this real? And then there was something
Speaker 5: that occurred that he called me about. Uh Pros from
Speaker 5: the Fujis Pros called me at one point and he
Speaker 5: was like, you might be right to feel like you're
Speaker 5: in danger. I would go to a hotel for a second.
Speaker 5: He had inside it. He had some type of information
Speaker 5: that I didn't know about. And that was the first
Speaker 5: time that I realized, like, oh, okay, so you know,
Speaker 5: maybe I'm not doing the most. It was hard to tell.
Speaker 4: It was very scary.
Speaker 5: So when you asked me that if I see a
Speaker 5: small thing like I was trying to protect him, that
Speaker 5: could be at a state where you don't know what's
Speaker 5: really going to happen with this man, and then when
Speaker 5: he gets fully taken out, you now know.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm saying.
Speaker 5: Even when I spoke with Homeland Security, they told me
Speaker 5: anything that you say in this interview you'd have to
Speaker 5: say on the on the stand, and there's no we
Speaker 5: don't get a like edit. What you say is what
Speaker 5: it is. So if there's something you don't want to say,
Speaker 5: don't say it because there's no editing and there's no
Speaker 5: go backs. This is a one time thing. They don't
Speaker 5: give you any information. They give nobody. I mean, I
Speaker 5: asked them, was the story that happened with me true?
Speaker 5: They could not tell me anything. They made it clear
Speaker 5: they would never be able to tell me any of that. So,
Speaker 5: so when you're talking to them. There's still even I
Speaker 5: still had a fear of naming certain people that were
Speaker 5: around during certain things because I thought, if he doesn't
Speaker 5: get taken under and these people do get together there,
Speaker 5: I could be in a lot of trouble. But for
Speaker 5: sure I'd never work again.
Speaker 3: When you see with all of that, your personal experience,
Speaker 3: knowing all of that and fearing a lot of that,
Speaker 3: when you see Capricorn get up and testify, how.
Speaker 2: Much courage does that take?
Speaker 3: I mean, she is looking directly at Ditty when she
Speaker 3: or at least he's right there in front of her
Speaker 3: when she's testifying to all of this.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine knowing her knowing Ditty being around them both,
Speaker 2: what that must have been like?
Speaker 5: Worse than anyone can ever imagine, because I think she
Speaker 5: knows so much more and the scope of this is
Speaker 5: just where the scope of this is.
Speaker 4: But I also.
Speaker 5: Think there's some part of her that feels the way
Speaker 5: I do, in the sense that you know, you asked
Speaker 5: me the first day, TJ, where does the sympathy lay
Speaker 5: with this person? Not every day was bad? So and
Speaker 5: also a good day with him is a better day
Speaker 5: than you could have with anybody else in life.
Speaker 4: So it's hard to.
Speaker 5: Match the extremes of that man. And there's there she's
Speaker 5: been tortured. Imagine if it's true what Shug has suggested happened,
Speaker 5: and she was given enough potentially compensation to take care
Speaker 5: of herself, and whatever occurred, You're still living in a
Speaker 5: world that idolizes a man. You still see his billboards
Speaker 5: every time you get to hear him that he's now
Speaker 5: changed his name to love. Do you know how disgusting
Speaker 5: that could be for so many of us. That's why
Speaker 5: I went on mass singer and said, this belongs to
Speaker 5: us now for a man that you know as Oh
Speaker 5: the love hearts went on to know that, to know
Speaker 5: the evil ways of somebody, to see that and hear
Speaker 5: if you know him and you still talk to people
Speaker 5: to hear and know in the streets that behavior is
Speaker 5: still allegedly still rolling on like usual, at least according
Speaker 5: to a lot of the civil suits, it appears that way.
Speaker 5: If you know allegedly, it would probably be a very
Speaker 5: hard thing to know that he just took over the
Speaker 5: one name that is a universal feeling of goodness and
Speaker 5: warmth and joy and love. It's the best thing that
Speaker 5: you can have on this Earth, and that motherfucking man
Speaker 5: named himself that legally and took the signage and made
Speaker 5: it his. He is still I'm I'm was watching one
Speaker 5: of the court the people that draw those awful pictures
Speaker 5: of all of them looking hectic. Yeah, I was watching
Speaker 5: her on an interview and she was saying that how
Speaker 5: much Diddy is really like playing it up in court.
Speaker 5: He's like blowing love hearts to the kids, He's chatting
Speaker 5: it up with his team, he's talking to interviewers. Is
Speaker 5: he's walking out to new sites as he's walking out
Speaker 5: like he's really starting to get There are a lot
Speaker 5: of reports suggesting that he's giving more of a showmanship
Speaker 5: in the room lately. And like, I don't know if
Speaker 5: I had mentioned this to you guys, but you know,
Speaker 5: coming forward and saying we're respectfully not going to cross
Speaker 5: Cassie's mom. That's not because they couldn't come up with
Speaker 5: something that's definitely a move. Because they feel like maybe
Speaker 5: they got somebody at least one in that jury that
Speaker 5: is potentially in their favor, and all they need is
Speaker 5: one and a move like that could really make the
Speaker 5: man be seen as Wow, he wouldn't even go after
Speaker 5: someone's mom.
Speaker 4: That's a really nice thing to do.
Speaker 5: And wow, look at his mom's sitting behind him, and
Speaker 5: all his kids are there. This A lot of people
Speaker 5: sure do love this man. And these are a lot
Speaker 5: of horrific things we're hearing. It could confuse somebody, and
Speaker 5: these details are horrific. These details are very much alone
Speaker 5: with the charges that he has been charged with.
Speaker 4: Frankly, yet this understanding.
Speaker 5: Of whether he really is good or really is bad
Speaker 5: is what I think the both prosecution that needs to
Speaker 5: probably do a little bit less of and more of
Speaker 5: the proof of the coercion in the force and the
Speaker 5: racketeering stuff which they're doing. And then I think the
Speaker 5: defense is really going to probably rest on more of
Speaker 5: the poking holes.
Speaker 4: And you really like this guy.
Speaker 5: There's he was a drug addict and he had bad phases,
Speaker 5: but really that lovable side which I told you there
Speaker 5: is that check in with that man. He is a human.
Speaker 5: That check in could confuse one person. And it's eight
Speaker 5: men and four women, And no disrespect to you, TJ,
Speaker 5: but men get it wrong a lot, a lot.
Speaker 1: You hear that a lot. We disagree with that, though,
Speaker 1: but we do hear that lot. Back to the incident.
Speaker 1: That night, she gets taken from the home. She says
Speaker 1: she's heading They're going to Cutty's house. He goes in
Speaker 1: with the security guard to Cutty's house. But we mentioned
Speaker 1: off the top of here she talked about the first
Speaker 1: day on the job, he threatened to kill her, threatened
Speaker 1: the killer. Later Keller threatened to kill her and Cuddy
Speaker 1: and Cassie. You talked earlier about sometimes in the industry,
Speaker 1: you know, we're familiar with rap beefs, and sometimes people
Speaker 1: rap about killing this person. That's one thing, But did you,
Speaker 1: in your opinion, when he's threatening to kill somebody in
Speaker 1: these situations, this is not rap bravado, This is not
Speaker 1: wrap beef you think people had he was for real.
Speaker 5: Yeah, if he wasn't for real, people would have just
Speaker 5: laughed it off. Nobody would have been buying burner phones,
Speaker 5: Nobody would have been hiding out, not saying certain things
Speaker 5: around him, not upsetting him. I mean, one thing that
Speaker 5: stood out to me, and it won't make sense until
Speaker 5: the Netflix documentary comes out, but there was something they
Speaker 5: said in her exchange about how her Capricorn and Lauren
Speaker 5: London were in the kitchen talking about why they don't
Speaker 5: have a man, and Diddy tells Cassie to go into
Speaker 5: wherever he was, and he displays in front of these women.
Speaker 5: To Cassie, he says, stand up, sit down, turn to
Speaker 5: the left, turn to the right, go look this way,
Speaker 5: look that way, whatever the commands were, and then he
Speaker 5: looked over at them and said, that's why you don't
Speaker 5: have a man. And there are things that there are
Speaker 5: actual pieces of proof that suggest that that is very
Speaker 5: much the way in which the expectations for females to
Speaker 5: behave was. And I don't think you were kept around
Speaker 5: for long if you wanted to act differently.
Speaker 3: Something that Capricorn testified to in cross examination was jarring
Speaker 3: to us and certainly jaw dropping. But when the defense
Speaker 3: attorneys asked her to recount, or to paraphrase, at least,
Speaker 3: they asked her if this were in fact true, that
Speaker 3: she was recounting a conversation that she had with Cassie,
Speaker 3: and she was telling in the statement that she was
Speaker 3: begging Cassie to leave Dinny. You gotta leave him, you
Speaker 3: gotta leave. You can't stay with him anymore after everything
Speaker 3: she had seen, and what her remark was or what
Speaker 3: her testimony was that Cassie said this, jay Z is taken,
Speaker 3: who would I date? And the lawyer said, is that
Speaker 3: what Cassie Ventura said? Did Cassie Ventura say to you,
Speaker 3: jay Z is taken? Who else would I date?
Speaker 5: And she said, yes, Well, here's a bigger picture thought,
Speaker 5: because that is a hard one to lay into. Does
Speaker 5: it matter if somebody wanted to be with someone rich
Speaker 5: and powerful and wanted to be with somebody at the
Speaker 5: top in regards to any of these charges, No, what
Speaker 5: type of aspirational woman she was, what she valued or
Speaker 5: what she wanted in a boyfriend, and it could have
Speaker 5: just been a joke. But either way, if it wasn't
Speaker 5: a joke, and she did have an aspiration of being
Speaker 5: with the biggest and the best, which frankly a lot
Speaker 5: of people do. Look at you, you got TJTJ. You
Speaker 5: got amy biggest and best. Somebody fought for it, other
Speaker 5: people fight for it at different levels. To me, it's
Speaker 5: neither here nor there. It doesn't It doesn't have anything
Speaker 5: to do with kidnapping with weapons, robbery or invade home invasion.
Speaker 4: And car bombing and.
Speaker 5: Continuous amounts of I mean, he locked Capricorn up for
Speaker 5: in a was it a co instruction building for like
Speaker 5: five days when jewelry went missing. That's not a normal
Speaker 5: thing for a boss to do. When jewelry's misplaced.
Speaker 2: The light detector test and a man by a.
Speaker 5: Lie detector test. I mean, let's be real now, light
Speaker 5: detector tests aren't even admissible in court.
Speaker 4: Who would even do something like that.
Speaker 5: I don't think that that had anything to do with
Speaker 5: her finally getting it right. I think it had to
Speaker 5: do with look at the degrees in which I will
Speaker 5: go to make sure that you know to never cross me.
Speaker 5: It's coercion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was just curious what you thought because
Speaker 3: you were just speaking to It only takes one duror.
Speaker 3: It only takes one duror. And if you were now
Speaker 3: throwing some sort of holes or at least in terms
Speaker 3: of was she complicit? Was she really doing all of
Speaker 3: this against her will? Was she actually being coerced and
Speaker 3: forced to do these freak offs and forced to endure
Speaker 3: all of this abuse. If she's actually saying, hey, it's
Speaker 3: worth it because I get what I want in the end.
Speaker 3: I want to be with the richard, powerful guy. I
Speaker 3: love this luxurious lifestyle. Yeah, I might have to enter
Speaker 3: X Y and Z, but I'll do it because I
Speaker 3: want this. That was the concern, or at least I'm
Speaker 3: sure that's what the defense's goal was, to least eat
Speaker 3: it out in wonder, who thinks you know what?
Speaker 2: She wanted it, She asked for it, she was complicit
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 5: So let me say two things about that. My first
Speaker 5: one being there have been plenty of things that have
Speaker 5: shown she was not complicit in everything, So that's a
Speaker 5: wash right there. Second thing I would say is, as
Speaker 5: you were talking, it was bringing all these thoughts up
Speaker 5: in regards to there were a lot of things said
Speaker 5: to people that are still acting like they want to
Speaker 5: stay far away from this trial, that know a good
Speaker 5: about about what was happening, and you.
Speaker 4: Know who you are, and they were.
Speaker 5: There was very specific attempts at trying to divide us,
Speaker 5: just as Danity Kane let alone the women that were
Speaker 5: being that dated. I mean, it sounds like there was
Speaker 5: the vision that was being constantly woven between Kim and Cassie.
Speaker 5: I would witness during making the band, whenever Kim came
Speaker 5: to watch us, Cassie was drug out. Whether she wanted
Speaker 5: to be there or not, she was taken out and
Speaker 5: put in the stairwell or the hallway or whatever. Kim
Speaker 5: wasn't going to be in a room with her, and
Speaker 5: Kim came first. And then when you see Capricorn saying
Speaker 5: Cassie got rid of me, Cassie got in there, and
Speaker 5: she felt mad about Cassie doing that and thought Cassie
Speaker 5: would get rid of her. It seems like instead of
Speaker 5: women joining together, which is what we're seeing now right,
Speaker 5: potentially a lot of women, whether they liked each other
Speaker 5: or not, taking the stand and telling their story with
Speaker 5: a lot of bravery, and their story seemed pretty consistent,
Speaker 5: and they're not allowed to talk with each other to
Speaker 5: come up with anything. You're not allowed to speak to
Speaker 5: another victim when you have been approached by Homeland security.
Speaker 5: So at that point, you're seeing all these women now
Speaker 5: with so much bravery coming forward and talking about all
Speaker 5: their experience, and they're all kind of the same, and
Speaker 5: they all are also are saying there was jealousy amongst them.
Speaker 5: But I don't know that it's necessarily a woman's state
Speaker 5: and a healthy environment to just dislike all.
Speaker 4: The women around.
Speaker 5: Usually we learn ourselves through the mirror of the men
Speaker 5: that are looking at us and if you're being mirrored
Speaker 5: back by the men that were around when I was there,
Speaker 5: I feel very worried about what you may think you
Speaker 5: are or what you may think you have to be
Speaker 5: in order to be appreciated. But it definitely wasn't best
Speaker 5: friends with the girls sitting across from you. Divide and
Speaker 5: conquer was a very good strategy that was used over there,
Speaker 5: and in my opinion, and it obviously worked well. However,
Speaker 5: now that we're in a federal trial and there's plenty
Speaker 5: of people that established they're not friends anymore. They were
Speaker 5: jealous of each other, they didn't like each other, but
Speaker 5: the patterns of abuse coercion force these extreme situations that
Speaker 5: everybody is discussing. Some people even are still going up
Speaker 5: there liking him, but they still saw all the stuff happening.
Speaker 5: There's enough. There's enough employees involved, there's enough, there's enough
Speaker 5: people that were setting things up, there's enough people helping
Speaker 5: possess people across state lines.
Speaker 4: There's enough things going.
Speaker 5: On where a lot of these charges are being really
Speaker 5: established right now.
Speaker 3: Well, one thing's for sure is Capricorn's testimony on Tuesday
Speaker 3: was for us at least jaw dropping and and it's
Speaker 3: remarkable you think about how they've been calling all these witnesses.
Speaker 3: It was just her all day and she captivated everyone
Speaker 3: who was listening.
Speaker 5: And the new her is after her would have been KK.
Speaker 5: So let's see if KK takes the stand, because KK
Speaker 5: will would be probably just as shocking. Now. I don't
Speaker 5: know if she stays on H Diddy's side or not,
Speaker 5: but in some of the civil suits, some things are
Speaker 5: alleged that are criminal behavior, So if she's looking for immunity,
Speaker 5: she might want to get on that stand allegedly.
Speaker 3: There is certainly a lot more to come in city trial,
Speaker 3: but there is actually something that was going on behind
Speaker 3: the scenes from one of the women who took this
Speaker 3: stand last week.
Speaker 2: Don Rochard.
Speaker 3: Can you fill us in what's going on or what
Speaker 3: happened between Don Rochard and Q, who we had on
Speaker 3: the podcast earlier, who also alleges to be a victim
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways from the Diddy empire and
Speaker 3: what he believes happened to him.
Speaker 2: But what was going on between Q and Dawn on
Speaker 2: social media?
Speaker 5: So to basically summarize the online exchange between Q and down,
Speaker 5: Q posted over the weekend. His post was meant to
Speaker 5: clarify the things he told us on the podcast last week,
Speaker 5: things that he's been saying for a long time. After that,
Speaker 5: Don posted in response to Q's post, denying she had
Speaker 5: anything to do with his allegations. Then Q responded to
Speaker 5: her post claiming that there was video evidence. Once he
Speaker 5: posted the fact that he had receipts, Don then took
Speaker 5: her post down. So because of that interview, all of
Speaker 5: that occurred over the weekend, and then Don took down
Speaker 5: her posts. So I don't know, guys, what do you
Speaker 5: think about that? What do you think specifically about the
Speaker 5: behavior of making a statement and then retracting it or
Speaker 5: they're being video proof, So what do you guys think
Speaker 5: about that?
Speaker 1: You know, the back and forth. It's hard to look
Speaker 1: at a lot of anybody in this case. Once you
Speaker 1: start listening to them. Everybody seems like a victim. Everybody
Speaker 1: seems like they were in pain. Everybody seems like they
Speaker 1: were hurt in some way. And yes, including Diddy, yes
Speaker 1: he was at the top of this chain. Some of
Speaker 1: the stuff they describe in his behavior sounds oh maniacal,
Speaker 1: and it does sound like somebody strung adult drugs. This
Speaker 1: is not a suggestion at all that he is not
Speaker 1: guilty of something, is not responsible for what we all
Speaker 1: saw on that video. But this sounds like an ugly
Speaker 1: It sounds like hell on earth. But from the outside,
Speaker 1: it all looked like a world that was glamorous and
Speaker 1: we wanted to be a party in. This is disgusting,
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. The more we learn about it,
Speaker 1: that's just an ugly, ugly world. And I hope this
Speaker 1: shit is not still going on to people that were
Speaker 1: your age. Are we going to get in it or
Speaker 1: even younger?
Speaker 5: PJ.
Speaker 4: Let me just cut in right there.
Speaker 5: Allegedly it is we need a cultural reshift. This is
Speaker 5: a sick, sick situation when you have people that have
Speaker 5: dreams and music is different than other professions in the
Speaker 5: sense that when you guys went to show up for
Speaker 5: your job every day, you are in very corporate settings
Speaker 5: with very professional people. In these settings, you're in the
Speaker 5: studio till three am. If a producer wants to smoke
Speaker 5: weed in the room, you got to run to the
Speaker 5: stairwell to.
Speaker 4: Breathe if you don't want to get high because you
Speaker 4: don't like that.
Speaker 5: Because they get to do what they want to do,
Speaker 5: they're recording the song.
Speaker 4: It's their track, it's their life.
Speaker 5: There's no the boundaries are almost nonexistent, no overs there's
Speaker 5: no oversight. I mean I never met anyone from HR
Speaker 5: A bad Boy, but there's no oversight.
Speaker 4: The boundaries are just completely.
Speaker 5: Gone, and there needs to be a lot of checks
Speaker 5: and balances and.
Speaker 4: Accountability.
Speaker 5: There are so many people like Listen, MTV and Viacom
Speaker 5: can't probably come forward and say, hey, we are so sorry.
Speaker 4: We had a show on.
Speaker 5: That aired for almost a decade with three different bands
Speaker 5: and every single person there's a person in every single
Speaker 5: band that has a horrific situation and is suing or
Speaker 5: wants an apology, whatever it is, and we're so sorry
Speaker 5: we didn't know whatever it is. It would have felt
Speaker 5: good to hear they haven't even done that. They likely
Speaker 5: can't legally because it will imply them and their names
Speaker 5: are listed in the lawsuits of the people that are
Speaker 5: suing from the band era. But accountability would go a
Speaker 5: long way when I see they're back and forth. The
Speaker 5: only thing that just stood out to me is when
Speaker 5: you make a bold statement and then you delete it,
Speaker 5: it's not a good look in my opinion. Well, have
Speaker 5: you guys, ever made a statement about a serious matter
Speaker 5: that you were in and then deleted it.
Speaker 1: Oh, it sends a message we just deleted that. That
Speaker 1: means somebody gave it a second thought, or they were wrong,
Speaker 1: or they jumped the gun or something. That's what it usually.
Speaker 2: Suggests to either regret at the very.
Speaker 1: Least, and we have to get you before we let
Speaker 1: you go here. We have to have to have to
Speaker 1: ask about one moment that was another in the whole
Speaker 1: line of heartbroaking, heartbreaking moments that we saw, which was
Speaker 1: when she described did he kicking Cassie while she was
Speaker 1: in a fetal position crying silently? After they found out
Speaker 1: about him? The kid cut he dating after did he
Speaker 1: found out about it? And it was robes what the
Speaker 1: call she made to Cassie's mom and then Cassie's mom's
Speaker 1: response is the part that kind of stuck.
Speaker 3: Cassie's mom saying, I can't call police, what will you
Speaker 3: please help my daughter? That was so incredibly heartbreaking to
Speaker 3: see a woman witnessing she claims Diddy kicking a woman
Speaker 3: in fetal position crying silently and the mom knowing this
Speaker 3: is happening and can still do nothing about it. That
Speaker 3: was or yeah, that's a very good point. Won't do anything,
Speaker 3: says I can't. That was heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: I can't think of another word for it.
Speaker 5: Actually, soon there's going to be an episode dropping where
Speaker 5: I talked to doctor Hilary Goldscher and we had an
Speaker 5: incredible conversation about why women stay and the psychology behind
Speaker 5: these abusive settings.
Speaker 4: And how.
Speaker 5: Victims almost become paralyzed in them.
Speaker 3: So many issues that not just affect the people in
Speaker 3: the arena in the Diddy Empire.
Speaker 2: But also everyone who's faced something like that.
Speaker 3: So we appreciate your constant perspective, Aubrey o Day, and
Speaker 3: we will continue to follow the Ditty trial for all
Speaker 3: of you listeners.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us.