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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Gray.

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Speaker 2: This is very concerning to us.

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Speaker 3: We don't typically you don't typically get the sheriff out

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Speaker 3: at a scene like this, but it's very concerning what

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Speaker 3: we're learning from the house, and so we'll.

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Speaker 2: Just continue.

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Speaker 4: The detectives there.

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Speaker 3: A homicide team is out right now looking at the

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Speaker 3: scene as well.

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Speaker 1: What is it about the scene that concerns you.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to get into those details.

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Speaker 3: I would just tell you that it's certainly a great

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Speaker 3: concern to us just what we.

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Speaker 2: See there, and we'll continue to look.

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Speaker 1: So you suspect foul play.

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Speaker 2: I'm not willing it out.

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Speaker 1: Would you gauge the chances are that it's foul play?

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Speaker 1: Would you be willing to give us any idea on that.

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Speaker 2: I hope it's not. I hope we find her. I

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Speaker 2: hope we find her safe.

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Speaker 1: And so out tonight, our friend Savannah Guthrie needs our help,

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Speaker 1: including you. Her eighty four year old mother in Arizona

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Speaker 1: is missing right now, is being treated as a crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave Mack, joining US investigative reporter Crime Stories, Dave,

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Speaker 1: what do we know?

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Speaker 5: We know that Nancy, a relative called nine to one

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Speaker 5: one yesterday just around twelve noon and reported Nancy Guthrie,

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Speaker 5: eighty four years old, missing. Now, Nancy, there are several

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Speaker 5: things to consider here. The Sheriff's department has already said

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Speaker 5: this looks like a crime scene in that house. They

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Speaker 5: went out right away and already got boots on the ground.

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Speaker 5: They even brought in homicide detectives early. Nancy, do you

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Speaker 5: want to clarify that Nancy Guthrie at eighty four years old,

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Speaker 5: lives in Catalina Foothills, which is just north of Tucson, Arizona.

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Speaker 5: She was last seen Saturday night around nine thirty. It

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Speaker 5: was on Sunday, as I said, midday when a relative

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Speaker 5: called nine one one saying we've got a missing woman.

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Speaker 5: And I've got to assume there's more to it based

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Speaker 5: on the amount of assets being used right now to

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Speaker 5: the locator.

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Speaker 1: Guys, at this hour, our friend, my former coworker, Savannah Guthrie,

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Speaker 1: needs our help. Her mother, her eighty four year old mother,

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Speaker 1: has gone missing. Nancy Guthrie gone last seen Sunday night.

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Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie five five, one hundred and fifty pounds, brown hair,

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Speaker 1: beautiful blue eyes, just like Savannah. There is a tip

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Speaker 1: line five two zero three five one forty nine hundred

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Speaker 1: five two zero three five one forty nine hundred. Now

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Speaker 1: this is in the Catalina Foothills near Tucson in Arizona.

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Speaker 1: Please look at this photo. We know what Savannah looks like.

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Speaker 1: This is her mother. Please help us find this eighty

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Speaker 1: four year old mom. Another thing I'm learning, Dave, Mike,

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Speaker 1: hold on, Dave. I'm being joined now by not only

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, our friend joining us out of LA,

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Speaker 1: but Brian Fitzgibbons. He is the director of Operations for

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Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security. He leads a team of investigators that

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Speaker 1: go all over the world, specializing in locating missing people

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Speaker 1: USPA Security dot Com. Brian, thank you for joining us tonight. Brian.

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Speaker 1: I know this. I know that we're being told. Left

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Speaker 1: beyond are her keys, her ID, her purse, her phone, everything.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're learning at this hour. What do we

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Speaker 1: do now she's limited in mobility. Listen to me, the sheriff,

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Speaker 1: Chris Nato says, she did not just walk out of there, Brian,

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Speaker 1: So what do we do right now? I would immediately

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Speaker 1: bring in canines, both types of knines, scent dogs, tracker

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Speaker 1: dogs and cadaver dogs. I bring them both in right now.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely.

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Speaker 6: Nancy and Pima County Sheriff Chris Nanos has made some

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Speaker 6: immediate coordination to have those things happen. You had canine

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Speaker 6: teams brought over from Customs and Border Patrol, helicopter assets

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Speaker 6: in the air, as well as drones with search and

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Speaker 6: rescue technologies searching the immediate area, because, as you said,

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Speaker 6: you know, Nancy got through being eighty four years old

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Speaker 6: with some medical conditions was not going to walk on

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Speaker 6: her own power a significant distance.

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Speaker 4: So those assets have been utilized, and.

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Speaker 6: Unfortunately law enforcement has come up with nothing from that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Brian Fitzgibbons, I just made a horrible, horrible mistake,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. I just when Brian was talking about

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Speaker 1: her meeting meds, I thought about my mom. Last night,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, quarter of twelve. I was in my

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Speaker 1: mom's room. She lives with us. She just turned ninety four,

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Speaker 1: and I saw where she had not had her nightmads.

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Speaker 1: And they're in one of those big boxes, you know,

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Speaker 1: where you lay them out. There's so many day by day,

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Speaker 1: and there's morning meds and there's nightmas and If she

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Speaker 1: doesn't have those meds, she'll die. They thin her blood,

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Speaker 1: therefore her heart. That just I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: they all are. And without those meds, she'll die. My

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Speaker 1: mom will die. She has to have those meds. And

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about what the sheriff said, that she's

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Speaker 1: not mobile. She can't, you know, just walk out of there.

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Speaker 1: They're treating it like a crime scene, Doctor Bethany. And

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Speaker 1: I know we keep showing smiley pictures of Savannah Bethany,

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Speaker 1: but Savannah is not just a famous TV star. You know,

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Speaker 1: she's the co host of to the Today Show. I

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Speaker 1: still think of Savannah when she first came to join

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Speaker 1: me at Court TV. And she is the same sweet,

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Speaker 1: kind person now that she was then before she became

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Speaker 1: a huge star. Just when you see her smiling unlike

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Speaker 1: a lot of TV people, that's real. That's who Savannah is.

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Speaker 1: And I'm thinking tonight, doctor Bethany, when you have your

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Speaker 1: mom in a let's just say, a rest time or

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Speaker 1: a retirement community, and that's what the mom wants. They

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Speaker 1: want to be independent, they want to live on their own.

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Speaker 1: But the whole time you're riddled with fear. Yes, you're

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Speaker 1: taking care of your own children, your own family, your

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Speaker 1: own job. But every day you're worried. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: Mom's okay. But I know she must be totally riddled

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Speaker 1: with fear.

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Speaker 7: Nancy. She must be terrified, you know, because you have

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Speaker 7: a ninety four year old mom and I just lost

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Speaker 7: my ninety five year old dad this past year. When

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Speaker 7: you have a parent that age, it activates the same

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Speaker 7: feelings as if you have a baby. You're always wondering,

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Speaker 7: is the baby okay? Are they being cared for even

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Speaker 7: if they're in a nursing home. Are their meals being

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Speaker 7: brought regularly? Is somebody abusing them? Parents want autonomy. Mine did.

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Speaker 7: He had his car keys until the day he died.

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Speaker 7: He did not want to go to a nursing facility.

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Speaker 7: I arranged everybody in the church to visit him on

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Speaker 7: a regular basis. He just thought he had millions of friends,

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Speaker 7: which he did, but he didn't realize everybody was kind

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Speaker 7: of having like a caretaker network, if.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 7: So Savannah already is struggling with feelings and has been.

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Speaker 7: I'm sure she and her sibling group and her family

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Speaker 7: with how do we take care of mom? And when

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Speaker 7: a parent goes into a facility of some sort. What

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Speaker 7: happens is that the caretaker usually needs respite, meaning they're

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Speaker 7: having caregiver burnout. But on the other hand, it goes

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Speaker 7: against all of their internalized belief systems about what it

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Speaker 7: means to care for family members, so it sets in

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Speaker 7: place like this complex bereavement process. Nancy, I'm so worried

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Speaker 7: about this mom. I have to say one more thing.

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Speaker 7: Was she being targeted by somebody who was defrauding her,

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Speaker 7: taking her money, or targeting her because of a lurid

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Speaker 7: fascination with Savannah? Was she targeted because of her daughter's notoriety.

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Speaker 7: There's so much more we need to know about this.

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Speaker 1: Kid, doctor Bethany. That just adds more suffering onto Savannah

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Speaker 1: to think that somehow someone targeted her mother because of her.

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Speaker 1: Dave matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, we are hearing that

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Speaker 1: missus Guthrie, Nancy Guthrie vanished shortly after being dropped off

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Speaker 1: at home by friends. She was coming home from a

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Speaker 1: church function on Saturday night. Are those the people to

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Speaker 1: last see her? I wonder if she made a phone

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Speaker 1: call or anything after that.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's what we know is that she was dropped off,

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Speaker 5: and it was family that actually was with her when

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Speaker 5: they dropped her off Saturday evening. Now she does live

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Speaker 5: by herself, Nancy. And it was the next morning. I

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Speaker 5: remember we said she did someth thing with church on

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Speaker 5: Saturday evening. So when she didn't show up at church

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Speaker 5: on Sunday morning, members of the church contacted family and

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Speaker 5: they went to the house and that's when they discovered

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Speaker 5: she was missing. So we know when she arrived at home,

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Speaker 5: and we know that she did not go to church

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Speaker 5: the next morning. A couple of other things to point out, Nancy.

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Speaker 5: Law enforcement is saying they are not treating this as

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Speaker 5: anything other than a crime scene at her house. That's

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Speaker 5: important because usually we're talking about these as we're looking

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Speaker 5: for somebody it's a missing person. They're talking this is

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Speaker 5: a crime scene. She did not leave the home on

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Speaker 5: her own, and they have at it. You mentioned the medication.

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Speaker 5: Her not getting her medication within twenty four hours is

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Speaker 5: a fatal thing for her. So this medication, everything about this,

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Speaker 5: it is really timely. Right now. Time is of the essence, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Another thing, Dave matt Hey, let me throw this to

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Speaker 1: Brian's Gibbons because it may weigh in on his opinion

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Speaker 1: of what should be happening right now. Brian, Nancy Guthrie,

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Speaker 1: Savannah's mother is not suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's or

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Speaker 1: any other mental defect at all. She has no cognitive decline.

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Speaker 1: Okay nothing. It's not like she just wandered out of

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Speaker 1: the house and she's just wandered into a body of

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Speaker 1: water and died. That did not happen. Here's what I

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Speaker 1: wanted to throw at you, Brian. Her front door, we

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Speaker 1: are told, was wide open. Now, Brian, nobody leaves their

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Speaker 1: door wide open. The last thing my mom says is,

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Speaker 1: I'm walking out of her room at night, shut the

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Speaker 1: door because she thinks it's colder in her room if

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Speaker 1: I leave the door open. And she's actually right, there's

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Speaker 1: no way this eighty four year old mom leaves her

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Speaker 1: door wide open. That didn't happen. So that said, what

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Speaker 1: do we do?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you've correctly highlighted something here.

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Speaker 6: This is not a standard case of a missing elder

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Speaker 6: where some medical event has led to temporary confusion, or

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Speaker 6: that there was early on set dementia or something like that.

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Speaker 4: We have the Pima.

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Speaker 6: County sheriff clearly identifying that this is a crime scene.

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Speaker 6: We have a door left wide open right which a

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Speaker 6: woman living alone is not going of sound mind, is

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Speaker 6: not going to do this. And he's been very crystal

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Speaker 6: clear about the assets that have been brought in very quickly.

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Speaker 6: So all of these things add up to let us

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Speaker 6: know that something happened to miss Guthrie on the night

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Speaker 6: of the thirty first, after she was dropped off, and

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Speaker 6: that this.

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Speaker 1: Is and in just a few hours, Brian, we've got

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Speaker 1: a very narrow timeline. She's dropped off of the church

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Speaker 1: function Saturday evening, Sunday morning time for church, she's gone.

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Speaker 1: We got maybe a ten hour window right there. How

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Speaker 1: does that help Brian or Hurt.

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Speaker 6: That's incredibly helpful because what law enforcement is doing now

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Speaker 6: and in the statement that just happened hours ago, they

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Speaker 6: are beginning an extensive search of license plate readers, all

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Speaker 6: camera surveillance in the area.

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Speaker 4: They're soliciting tips from the public.

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Speaker 6: So they're moving They're shifting their focus to a technology

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Speaker 6: focus now to piece together that timeline. Having it narrowed

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Speaker 6: down is going to make it a faster process.

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Speaker 1: Savannah, of course, has the left new York and is

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Speaker 1: in Arizona aiding in the search for her mother. There's

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Speaker 1: no way Savannah Guthrie would sit home while other people

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Speaker 1: are looking for her beloved mother, Nancy Guthrie, Dave mac

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigator, did I understand that the FBI has

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Speaker 1: been brought in.

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Speaker 5: They have been, Nancy, and you know, authorities are not

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Speaker 5: aware of any threats against Savannah Guthrie. But Nancy, you

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Speaker 5: mentioned that Savannah Guthrie is a very high profile news

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Speaker 5: celebrity and co host of the NBC Today Show. Would

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Speaker 5: not be unusual for threats against her. They're not saying that.

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Speaker 5: But the FBI is aware of this case, as is

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Speaker 5: US Customs and Border Protection also assisting Nancy. You know,

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Speaker 5: they brought in all the asset drones, helicopters and everything

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Speaker 5: right away, but you know, we have found out they've

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Speaker 5: all been sent home At this point, I don't know

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Speaker 5: what they've found out, but certain aspects of this investigation

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Speaker 5: are changing.

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Speaker 1: Guys, if you know or think you know anything about

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Speaker 1: the disappearance of Savannah's mom, Nancy Guthrie, please dial five

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Speaker 1: two zero three five one forty nine hundred pete five

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Speaker 1: two zero three five one forty nine hundred and of course,

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Speaker 1: please join us in prayer that Nancy Guthrie is brought home,

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Speaker 1: alive and well.

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Speaker 8: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Breaking news Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing, day three.

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Speaker 1: What does a mystery car have to do with this? Also,

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Speaker 1: we are learning the DNA found inside missus Guthrie's home

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Speaker 1: is her DNA. That DNA significant because it leads law

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Speaker 1: enforcement to state that she has been abducted. When asked,

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Speaker 1: is abducted to strong over a word to use? The

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Speaker 1: PMA County Sheriff says, no, she was dragged out of

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Speaker 1: her home. This eighty four year old grandma in the night.

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Speaker 1: I mean, sy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want

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Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us first of all,

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Speaker 1: joining me in All Star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we are learning right now. We're getting to the

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Speaker 1: DNA found in her home. It's been reported that it

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Speaker 1: was blood. We don't know that yet, but we do

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Speaker 1: know it is Nancy Guthrie's DNA. However, it's her home.

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Speaker 1: Of course her DNA is there, So what concerns the

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Speaker 1: police about that DNA?

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Speaker 9: Is it?

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Speaker 1: The amount of DNA is it the location of the DNA.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get into it, but I need to

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Speaker 1: go to Grace Stafford right now. It's doctor Grace Stafford.

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Speaker 1: He is the star podcast zoo Logic, author of Zoomility,

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Speaker 1: He is faculty member of Grand King University, and so

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Speaker 1: much more. But doctor Grace Stafford, let me get right

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Speaker 1: to it. You are joining us from Arizona. You're familiar

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Speaker 1: intimately with this jurisdiction. Well, can you tell me about

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Speaker 1: the terrain and the animal life.

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Speaker 10: Nancy, as her neighborhood implies, She's located at the base

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Speaker 10: of the Santa Catalina Mountain range, and so with that

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Speaker 10: wild habitat and change of elevation, it's much cooler there

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Speaker 10: than you would see, say in Phoenix, Arizona. Downtown Phoenix.

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Speaker 10: It's about twice elevation the Phoenix, so the daytime and

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Speaker 10: nighttime temperatures are cooler. With that change of elevation, you

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Speaker 10: might get some wildlife coming in from the mountains looking

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Speaker 10: for prey animals like mountain lions. Would not be uncommon

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Speaker 10: to drop into those kind of wild urban areas like

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Speaker 10: where she lives.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? It would not be

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Speaker 1: uncommon for mountain lions to be in the area.

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Speaker 10: Well, any wildlife is going to look for prey, and

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Speaker 10: with all the human activities there golf courses and so forth,

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Speaker 10: there's a lot of grass. You're going to have prey

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Speaker 10: species like how the lena deer, rabbits and other small

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Speaker 10: mammals and so predators like mountain lions frequently will drop

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Speaker 10: in from their more wild habitats to forage and then

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Speaker 10: high tail it out of there back into the mountains.

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Speaker 1: Gray again, thank you for being with us. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to identify what, if any, perils she would face. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that Nancy Guthrie, who has mobility issues,

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Speaker 1: no dementia, no cognitive decline, I do not believe that

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Speaker 1: she walked out of her place on a walk about. However,

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Speaker 1: she may be out in that terrain at someone else's

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Speaker 1: by someone else's hand. You stated about the temperatures, how

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Speaker 1: they dip at night, how cold it gets. You've told

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Speaker 1: me about the wildlife in the area. Well, can you

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Speaker 1: tell me about the terrain itself around her neighborhood.

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Speaker 10: Well, it's relatively flat, but it quickly climbs in elevation,

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Speaker 10: like any Foothills area and Mountain Lemon is found within

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Speaker 10: this mountain range. It's one of the top highest peaks

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Speaker 10: in Arizona, so you do get a rapid change of

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Speaker 10: elevation once you leave her neighborhood, and exposure is certainly concerned.

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Speaker 10: Although we've had a mild winter, temperatures right now are

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Speaker 10: running ten to twelve degrees fair night, higher than normal,

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Speaker 10: but still that's really it's wintertime. It's still rather cool

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Speaker 10: for someone to be out and be exposed to the

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Speaker 10: elements for a long period of time.

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Speaker 1: And at her age. Doctor Gray Stafford straight to Dave

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Speaker 1: mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave, A lot

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Speaker 1: is happening, and it's happening quickly. Number one, we know

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Speaker 1: that DNA is found at the scene. That is Nancy Guthries.

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Speaker 1: We know that DNA made police believe that a struggle

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Speaker 1: had ensued and she was actually kidnapped from her home.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm going to take this to Brian Fitzgibbons. Brian,

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Speaker 1: you are being told from your sources that no one

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Speaker 1: will confirm what type of DNA it is, regardless of

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Speaker 1: media outlets insisting that it's blood. What do you know yeah.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 6: Media outlets have provided information that there was blood, but

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Speaker 6: the Pima County Sheriff's Office, in a statement released to

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Speaker 6: media outlets, has not confirmed that reporting that They are

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Speaker 6: saying that they've connected the DNA to missus Guthrie, but

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Speaker 6: they will not indicate if that is indeed blood.

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Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons. There had to be something. It just assumed

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Speaker 1: that the media outlets are correct that it is her blood.

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Speaker 1: There had to be something about the blood that raised

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Speaker 1: law enforcements suspicions, because her blood can be on a

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Speaker 1: knife in the kitchen, It could be on the kitchen sink,

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Speaker 1: it could be in the bathroom. She may have had

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Speaker 1: a noseblee, she may have cut her finger, she may

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Speaker 1: have stupe that's not suspicious. What would be suspicious about

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Speaker 1: her blood that would concern law enforcement? Brian Fitzgibbons. Is

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Speaker 1: the amount of the blood? Is it a copious amount

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Speaker 1: of blood? Or the location of the blood? Is there

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Speaker 1: blood on the door the front door, is she is

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Speaker 1: being taken out of the door, or the nature of

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Speaker 1: the blood Brian Fitzgibbons. Is it a spray indicating a

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Speaker 1: gunshot wound? Is are there is there blood spatter indicating

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Speaker 1: a sharp instrument was used, and that she was bludgeoned.

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Speaker 1: So what I'm trying to get at, Brian Fitzgibbons, just

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Speaker 1: her blood or her DNA there in her home means nothing.

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Speaker 1: It's gotten to be either the location, the amount, or

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Speaker 1: the nature of the blood way in Fitsgibbons correct.

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Speaker 6: And you look at this crime scene as it's been

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Speaker 6: called by p mc County sheriff Nanos that this is

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Speaker 6: indeed a crime scene, that he does have evidence of

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Speaker 6: a forced entry, that he does have evidence at the

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Speaker 6: crime scene that missus Guthrie left against her will, and

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Speaker 6: you combine that with DNA found at the scene, you

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Speaker 6: know that paints a picture of what we're seeing.

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Speaker 4: Was there a trail of.

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Speaker 6: Blood leading out to the driveway, was there blood spatter?

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Speaker 6: Something connected the dots with those other statements that the

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Speaker 6: sheriff made to lead to this conclusion that that DNA

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Speaker 6: connected the dots on this being a potential abduction.

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Speaker 1: And again joining us doctor Gray Stafford Gray, another issue

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Speaker 1: is this when we hear blood, Nancy Guthries's blood caused

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Speaker 1: concern amongst L eight law enforcement. That doesn't I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to look at this in a bright light, in the

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Speaker 1: best light possible for missus Guthrie. That does not necessarily

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Speaker 1: mean she was blood or stabbed or shot. Maybe she

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Speaker 1: was struck. Maybe when you are struck in the face,

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Speaker 1: a nose bleed can be very profuse. You bleed a

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Speaker 1: lot from any injury around your nose or your mouth.

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Speaker 1: So that could be a more innocent explanation, not a

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Speaker 1: good one, but a more innocent one.

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Speaker 10: Yes, it certainly could. And as your other guests pointed out,

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Speaker 10: it's the amount, it's the proximity to the house, to

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Speaker 10: the driveway. Was it a trail, was it a single spot?

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Speaker 10: A lot of open questions still.

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Speaker 1: You know, I want to go back over what we're

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Speaker 1: learning at this hour for those of you just joining us.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie is eighty four. She is the mom of

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Speaker 1: our friend Savannah Guthrie of NBC Today. She's five five,

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Speaker 1: She weighs about one hundred and fifty pounds, brown hair,

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Speaker 1: beautiful blue eyes. She lives alone up skilled community. Last

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Speaker 1: scene Sunday evening at a church function. Last scene Saturday

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Speaker 1: evening at a church function. The following morning, when it's

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Speaker 1: time for her to go to church services. No, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: she has mobility problems. I'm guessing someone came to give

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Speaker 1: her a ride and she didn't come to the door.

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Speaker 1: The front door unlocked. We are now learning there are

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Speaker 1: signs of forced entry. The lights in the front of

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Speaker 1: the home were on. We are learning and this isn't

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Speaker 1: helping anything. Brian fitzgibbons that there is a gravel driveway.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to get any car prints or any

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Speaker 1: car evidence off gravel.

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Speaker 6: Explain no, you're not going to collect any And I'll

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Speaker 6: add to this the neighborhood itself. Not only are there

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Speaker 6: dirt and gravel driveways, these houses are set back quite

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Speaker 6: far off of the road, so the chance of catching

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Speaker 6: doorbell camera footage or security camera footage from neighboring houses

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Speaker 6: is very low. In my opinion, when you look at

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Speaker 6: the scenery on that street, it's very unlikely that law

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Speaker 6: enforcement is going to be able to get any significant

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Speaker 6: security footage from neighbors. Just the houses are set back

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Speaker 6: quite a bit off of the road. It looks to

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Speaker 6: be anywhere from fifty to one hundred yards, and there's

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Speaker 6: vegetation along the side of the road for privacy, so

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Speaker 6: you can see that.

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Speaker 4: There on the map as you get down that road.

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Speaker 6: That vegetation is pretty tall, and I've seen some videos

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Speaker 6: from the road itself, So it's going to be unlikely

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Speaker 6: that those cameras are capturing.

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Speaker 8: Any crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've got a time discrepancy. Dave mac Dave MATC,

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories, investigative reporter. Maybe it's not a discrepancy because

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Speaker 1: I had a judge, an awesome judge, the oldest judge

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Speaker 1: in the courthouse, Luther Alberson, that would tell the jury

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Speaker 1: every jury trial, it is your duty to make all

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Speaker 1: witnesses speak the truth in puny perjury on no one.

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Speaker 1: In other words, two statements can both be true and

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Speaker 1: we have to figure out how to reconcile them. We

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Speaker 1: are learning from a neighbor that she was taken out

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Speaker 1: of the home short quote, shortly after being dropped off

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Speaker 1: after church on Saturday night. And I guarantee you there

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Speaker 1: is not a church pop look going on at two

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Speaker 1: forty five am, Dave.

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Speaker 5: Matt To be very clear here, Annie Guthrie, Savannah Guthrie's

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Speaker 5: older sister, was with her mom and is the last

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Speaker 5: person to see her mom. It was Annie Guthrie who

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Speaker 5: dropped Nancy Guthrie off between ninety nine pm. That's what

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Speaker 5: Annie says. Something else that comes into play, Nancy, there

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Speaker 5: was blood drops from the entryway of the house leading

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Speaker 5: out to the driveway. Something else. Lights in the common

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Speaker 5: area I used plural lights in the common area of

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Speaker 5: the home were left on. The front door was unlocked,

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Speaker 5: but there was forced entry. And something else that was

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Speaker 5: said that the doorbelt camera had been removed before law

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Speaker 5: enforcement arrived, and it was phrased just that way. I

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Speaker 5: don't know what that means, but they said it was

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Speaker 5: removed before they arrived. So we've got a woman who

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Speaker 5: cannot walk fifty yards on our own, we've got blood

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Speaker 5: going from the entryway to the driveway, and we do

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Speaker 5: have a neighbor saying he thought she saw a mysterious

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Speaker 5: car in that neighborhood on that road near that house.

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Speaker 5: Shortly after Annie Guthrie dropped her mom off.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Dave mac, I want you to go through the

433
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: sailing at points one more time, because every one of

434
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: them is primitive. Each thing you said proves something start

435
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: over all right.

436
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 5: Annie Guthrie, the oldest daughter of Nancy, was out to

437
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 5: dinner with Nancy on Saturday night and dropped her off

438
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 5: at her home between nine thirty and nine forty five pm.

439
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 5: That's Annie Guthrie, the last person to see Nancy Guthrie.

440
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 5: We have blood evidence, a blood trail going from the

441
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 5: entryway of the home out to the driveway. We have

442
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 5: a front door that is unlocked, but police say there

443
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 5: was force entry. We have lights on in the common

444
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 5: areas of the home. We know that Nancy Guthrie suffers

445
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 5: from no type of Alzheimer's or dementia. She sharp as attack,

446
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 5: but she has physical issues so that she cannot walk

447
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 5: on her own for fifty yards. So we have a

448
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 5: neighbor that also says she saw a mysterious vehicle and

449
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 5: one she didn't recognize in the neighborhood shortly after the

450
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 5: time Nancy Guthrie was dropped off by her oldest daughter Annie,

451
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 5: or between nine thirty and nine forty five that evening

452
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 5: Saturday night. And by the way, Nancy Guthrie attended church

453
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 5: services so regularly. When she did not show up for

454
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 5: her eleven AM worship service as usual, by eleven ten,

455
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 5: members of the church were on the phone with family

456
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 5: members saying, Hey, your mom's not a church, and that's

457
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 5: why any they were over at Nancy Guthrie's home right away,

458
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 5: they spent an hour looking all inside the home and

459
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 5: around the home before they called to Lice and notified

460
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 5: them that she was gone.

461
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: I need you to add in, Dave Matt, what you

462
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: learned about the door cam.

463
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 5: The door cam was shocking to me, Nancy because of

464
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 5: the phrasing that was used in this. Law enforcement says

465
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 5: the dork camera the doorbell camera was removed before they arrived,

466
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 5: and that was the terminology used that this camera had

467
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 5: been removed before they arrived.

468
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: Day back again, what did you say about missus guthries

469
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: doorbell can being removed?

470
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 5: That's what law enforcement says, that she did have one,

471
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 5: but that doorbell camera was removed before they made it

472
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 5: to her house.

473
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: Okay, that puts a whole nother layer of planning onto this,

474
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: and that is why I'm saying, fors Gibbons, that this

475
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: is not random. This is not a guy wandering around.

476
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: And yes, typically it's a man wandering around that upskill

477
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: neighborhood looking to steal your VCR or seeing your jewelry

478
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: lying out by your bed, or taking your electronics. No,

479
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: This is not some dopp add it coming in to

480
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: get your oxy for your knee surgery. This is targeted.

481
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: This is not random. The mystery car allegation compared with

482
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: taking her doorbell cam, taking the ring cam put him up.

483
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: First of all, that's the first sign the person's an idiot,

484
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: because taking dismantling the doorbell cam does not stop what's

485
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: already been recorded right now. It's in the cloud somewhere.

486
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 6: That is correct, and Pema County Sheriff Chris Nanos has

487
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 6: indicated that.

488
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 4: They are making moves right.

489
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 6: Now to get access to that cloud to obtain that footage.

490
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 6: And as you mentioned, Nancy, all of these signs knowing

491
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 6: the location of a camera or removing it, knowing that

492
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 6: Missus Guthrie would be alone, vulnerable at this time, everything

493
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 6: points to somebody with insider knowledge of Missus Guthrie.

494
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: Now, Bryan Vius Gibbons, when you first heard Dave Matt

495
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: report that her doorbell cam had been taken, so all

496
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: we know taken before law enforcement got there, you said,

497
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: what there was video. The fact that the door cam

498
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: was taken does not preclude the possibility that there was

499
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: a nannycam operating on the inside. Maybe in certain areas

500
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: of the homeway, the entrance way, the back door, there

501
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: could be other surveillance camera other than the ring door cam.

502
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 6: Correct, There's a very good possibility that somebody liked Missus

503
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 6: Guthrie with an association to her daughter, who's such a

504
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 6: public figure, would have multiple cameras. It would be difficult

505
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 6: to remove all of them in a quick fashion.

506
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: So, Dave Matt, I want to circle back to you,

507
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: Dave Matt, Crime Story's investigative reporter. We understand that at

508
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: first we were told that the search of the area

509
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: has been called off and now they're focusing on the

510
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: missing person aspect, not the recovery finding her in that

511
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: area around the home. But now we're learning, Dave Matt,

512
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: that law enforcement is going back and they are retracing

513
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: their steps and then moving outward from the home.

514
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 5: What do you know, Dave, They're going to not just

515
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 5: go outward from the home, Nancy. They're actually expanding what

516
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 5: they were originally doing. When they first started the search.

517
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 5: They had a ground game plan to go out and search.

518
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 5: But now as they've decided to come back, they obviously

519
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 5: have information leading them to this. They're going back and

520
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 5: retracing not just their footsteps from their original search, but

521
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 5: they're also widening the search, making it a little bit

522
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 5: bigger on the side. As they go out from her home,

523
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 5: they obviously have some information that has led them back

524
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 5: down this path, because if you remember, they very quickly

525
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 5: said this type of a search is done. Helicopters were gone,

526
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 5: drones were gone. Well, we got helicopters back in the air,

527
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 5: we got drones back in the area. So they're doing

528
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 5: another search, retracing their footsteps and expanding it a little bit.

529
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: So doctor Gray Stafford, star of zoo Logic podcast, zoologist, consultant,

530
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: author of faculty, what are they going to encounter as

531
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: they expand the search. Okay, you're starting her at her place,

532
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: and you're going out out, out out out Geographically, well.

533
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 10: Nancy, a lot of people have a misconception that Arizona

534
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 10: is a very barren terrain. There's actually a lot of

535
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 10: wildlife and a lot of plant life here, much of

536
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 10: which is very hazardous to walk through because they have

537
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 10: thorns and that sort of thing. So moving on from

538
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 10: her home, there's going to be trails, They're going to

539
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 10: be dry washes where when it rains water will pass through.

540
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 10: We haven't had a out of moisture this winter, so

541
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 10: I suspect that it's going to be very dry in

542
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 10: the area, but it still may make passage difficult in

543
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 10: some of those thick rush areas, away from trails, away

544
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 10: from washes.

545
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons. Don't you see where the facts are leading us?

546
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: This is not random. If this were a random burglary,

547
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: you'd have items taken from the home. We've heard nothing

548
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: about that. It's not a family member. We know that

549
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: now you have to move out someone that knew her

550
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: in the sense that they knew of her. They clearly

551
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: waited until Annie dropped her off from the evening church

552
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: event that Saturday night. According to the neighbor, the mystery

553
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: car was seen shortly after that, which means they knew

554
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: when she be dropped off. Either they were there or

555
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: they already knew. They have an intimate knowledge of her life,

556
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: that she lives alone. The doorbell cam was taken off

557
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: the door. A lot is happening here, indicating it's not random,

558
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: So let's run with it. Where do you go?

559
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 6: Investigators are going to start looking Nancy at anybody who's

560
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 6: in and around that.

561
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 4: House with a degree of regularity.

562
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 6: And I say this not to accuse a landscaper, a

563
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 6: pool tech, a home health aid, anybody who's a home

564
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 6: cleaner coming into that house regularly. They're going to expand

565
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 6: and look at who lives with those people, who do

566
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 6: they associate with. Who might hear that Savannah Guthrie's mother

567
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 6: lives right down the road, and know that this could

568
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 6: be a target.

569
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 4: So it may not necessarily be that person.

570
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 6: That contractor that comes into the house, but it could

571
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 6: be somebody that's connected to him. And I can guarantee

572
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 6: you that investigators are going thoroughly down that list of

573
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 6: individuals that have had regular and consistent access to missus

574
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 6: Guthrie's home.

575
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: You know, another issue on Dave mac is Savannah started

576
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: with me at Court TV. She has covered missing people,

577
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: she's covered homicide, She's covered it all. She knows all

578
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: the statistics, she knows all the facts, and this has

579
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: got to be excruciating for her. I'm trying to paint

580
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: every fact not only nefariously but with in the best

581
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: possible like this has got to be killing her as

582
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: she gets dribbles in bits of evidence, blood, doorbell cam gone,

583
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: just dragged from her bed mystery car. It's heartbreaking, Nancy.

584
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 5: I will tell you that one of the things that

585
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 5: I noticed when we first started looking into this story

586
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 5: is how emotional you got, and how many of her

587
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 5: Savannah Guthrie's coworkers, people who have worked with her over

588
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 5: the years, how emotional they got, because she is genuinely,

589
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 5: truly liked and she is actually at her wits end.

590
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 5: She's yeah, as you mentioned, she's been down this road

591
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 5: in covering stories. Savannah Guthrie is reaching out and saying,

592
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 5: please pray, pray for my mom. We need her back.

593
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 5: She knows all these signs are sadly not good, and

594
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 5: yet there's still hope. And there are even signs out

595
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 5: in front of the yard somebody had made in front

596
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 5: of Nancy Guthrie's home saying we stand with you. You know,

597
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 5: Savannah was on her way to covering the Olympics. You

598
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 5: mentioned she just returned to the set of the Today

599
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 5: Show a week and a half ago after being off

600
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 5: for throat surgery than where she couldn't even speak, and

601
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 5: her voice is just now coming back. It's been a

602
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 5: tough time for her over the last couple of months.

603
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 5: She just got back on the set and now she's

604
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 5: out of course in Arizona to be there to help

605
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 5: find her mom. And I think the shocking part of

606
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 5: all of this, Nancy, is we have an eighty four

607
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 5: year old woman of sound mind, but with physical elements

608
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 5: preventing her from being able to go more than fifty yards.

609
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 5: She has medications she has to take twenty four hours

610
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 5: and the max she can go, and we're now well

611
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 5: past that, so she's without her medication. She might be hurt.

612
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 5: We've got blood going from the entryway to the driveway, Nancy.

613
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 5: At this hour, we are following up on claims there

614
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 5: could be a ransom note with the alleged kidnappers demanding

615
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 5: a specific amount of bitcoin and demanding the cryptocurrency be

616
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 5: sent to a specific Bitcoin address to add to the mix.

617
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 5: The bitcoin address has been verified as real. The election

618
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 5: note has been forwarded to the PMAC County Sheriff's Office,

619
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 5: and responding to word the possible ransom note, the PMA

620
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 5: County Sheriff's Department took to x to say they are

621
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 5: quote aware of reports circulating about possible ransom notes regarding

622
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 5: the investigation into Nancy got three. We are taking all

623
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 5: tips and lead. Seriously, anything that comes in goes directly

624
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 5: to our detectives who are coordinating.

625
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 4: With the FBI.

626
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 5: A possible break in the case, but as yet unverified.

627
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: Dave Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, one hundred detectives from

628
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office and the FBI. Now we are learning

629
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: a ransom note, possibly the very same ransom note sent

630
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: to not two, but three news outlets, that being our

631
00:41:54,480 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: friends at TMZ, Harvey Levin, kold A, k gun In Okay.

632
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: Also at this hour, the sheriff coming out and stating

633
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: there is no suspect, There is no POI person of interest.

634
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: But wouldn't you agree everybody that they always say there

635
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: is no POI though isn't no suspect because once you

636
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: say X is a suspect, then X is shrouded in

637
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: constitutional protections. That said, I choose to believe the sheriff.

638
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: Dave mac joining me, Dave, what is the latest as

639
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: we go to air right.

640
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 5: Now, Right now, Nancy, we have been told that those

641
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 5: the ransom notes going to three different locations. We're not

642
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 5: being told whether or not they are the same note

643
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 5: or if it was three different ones, but the content

644
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 5: of the note. One of them, anyway, specifically talks about

645
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 5: places inside the home of Nancy Guthrie and talks about

646
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 5: specific pieces of evidence at the crime scene that would

647
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 5: only be known by somebody that was in there at

648
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 5: that home. We also know, as you mentioned, one hundred

649
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 5: detectives are working on this case right now, plus the FBI,

650
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 5: and President Donald Trump has promised even more support to

651
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 5: get to Tucson, Arizona, to try to find Nancy Guthrie.

652
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: You know, I want to look at that note one

653
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: more time. I'm about to bring in Jessica Finn, senior

654
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: investigative reporter with the US Sun to doctor Bethany Marshall

655
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: joining me. Let me see Bethany Bethany renounced like o

656
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: analyside the La jurisdiction author of deal Breaker. You can

657
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: see her now on Peacock and you can find her

658
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, how'd that

659
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: strike you? Or else? Or else? That sounds like a

660
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: fifth grade girl's novel, do it or else or else?

661
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 9: What?

662
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 7: Well, it's very coercive, it's very menacing and threatening. But

663
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 7: if this was a real ransom note, Nancy wouldn't this

664
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 7: have been submitted or sent to the family privately? Wouldn't

665
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 7: it have been sent earlier, like right after the mother

666
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 7: is missing, when the family is completely frantic. The fact

667
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 7: that it is sent to TMC and another news agency

668
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 7: has copycat written all over it to.

669
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: Me something about it. Brian Fitzgibbons is joining me, Director Operations,

670
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: USPA Nationwide Security.

671
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 8: What is that?

672
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: He leads a team of investigative experts. They go all

673
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: around the world looking for missing people. By the way,

674
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: former marine and Iraq war veteran, Brian, there's something puero,

675
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 1: something juvenile about or else? Who writes that? Do it?

676
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: Or else? That phraseology is bugging me.

677
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, And there is something notably missing from this alleged

678
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 6: ransom note, and that is a proof of life. Right

679
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 6: for this ransom note to hold any weight, the the

680
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 6: author of the note would have to provide some kind

681
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 6: of proof of life that they did have Nancy Guthrie

682
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 6: in custody and that she was alive and well for

683
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 6: that note.

684
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 4: To have any value.

685
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: Well, here's another thing, Jessica sand let me go to

686
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: Jessica very quickly, saying, your investigator, reporter, the US son Jessica,

687
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us tonight. Jessica, what do

688
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: you make of the so called ransom note being sent

689
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: to three outlets and claiming knowledge of what Nancy Guthrie

690
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: was wearing that at the time she was kidnapped and

691
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: describing the interior of her home as it was left

692
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: at the time of the abduction.

693
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 11: You know, the Sheriff's department has been so close to

694
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 11: the best as to what information they're giving out to

695
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 11: the media, and it's been really interesting to watch. They're

696
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 11: doing a great job at talking to us but not

697
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 11: saying a lot. And I think that really this random

698
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 11: note thing, we don't know if they previously had a

699
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 11: random note that they've discovered that was sent directly.

700
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 12: To the family, and that who knows.

701
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 11: Maybe these people who have abducted her are getting frustrated

702
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 11: by the Sheriff's department not acknowledging them publicly.

703
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 12: I mean, that could be a thing that's happening right now.

704
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 11: The other thing is and yes, there we have not

705
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 11: heard that there's been proof of life. However, the sheriff

706
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 11: did say today during an interview with NBC that he

707
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 11: believes Nancy is alive and so as to why he

708
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 11: is suddenly saying he believes Nancy is alive after these

709
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 11: ransom notes went to news stations around the country yesterday.

710
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 12: Doesn't there's something there?

711
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 11: There might be a there there that maybe we just

712
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 11: don't know because the sheriff again is holding these cards

713
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 11: so close to the vest despite being accessible to the media.

714
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: I want to bring in Jeffrey Gentry joining US forensic

715
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: certified blood stained pattern Analyst, Senior crime scene analyst and

716
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: death investigator, former toxicology analyst, author of forensic science applications

717
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: to death and crime scene investigations, author of blood stained

718
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 1: pattern Analysis, author of death investigation Information to obtain during

719
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: a forensic death investigation on TikTok At. Jeffrey Gentry b

720
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: P A blood pattern Analyst. Facebook Jeff Gentry, Bloodstained Pattern Analyst, Jeff,

721
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,479
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Jeff. Of course, I'm

722
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: just a trial lawyer. But when I looked at the blood,

723
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: let's see the blood that is outside of Nancy Guthrie's home,

724
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: it looked to me like low velocity droplets free falling,

725
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 1: which to me, to me, it looks like maybe from

726
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: a nosebleed. It does not look like high velocity spatter.

727
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: It does not look like high velocity spray that you

728
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: would see from a gunshot wound. It does not look

729
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: like you don't we haven't heard anything about throwback on

730
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: the ceiling or the walls from a bludgeoning. And jeff

731
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 1: when they first told me that her DNA, Nancy's DNA

732
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: was found in the home, I was like, well, of

733
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: course her DNA's in the home, she lives there. But

734
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: how does that tell you the sheriff that she was abducted?

735
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: Er go either a copious amount of blood which means

736
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: she's severely injured or dead like we saw on the

737
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: Jennifer Doulo's Connecticut mom of five case, there was so

738
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: much blood in the garage they knew she was dead.

739
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,959
Speaker 1: The location such as on the ceiling right, which would

740
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: indicate a bludgeoning, and then a throwback or spray or

741
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: the high velocity a say, if there had been a

742
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 1: gunshot wound. Looking at the blood pattern that we see,

743
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, that gives me hope that she is alive,

744
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 1: because you don't have the other things that I mentioned, Jeffrey.

745
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 13: So when I look at this blood, I of course

746
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 13: any blood at a crimeantine is always concerning should take take

747
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,720
Speaker 13: all precautions if you find blood at a crime scene,

748
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 13: it is a tremendous amount of evidence that's in the blood.

749
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 13: Not only can it tell you events that happen, but

750
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 13: then of course you have the possibility to get DNA.

751
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 13: But when I look at these blood patterns, I'm not

752
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 13: overly concerned, So you're exactly right. These are passive blood drops.

753
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 13: They are drip stains, a little bit of a drip trail,

754
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 13: and then there's a blood into blood pattern. A blood

755
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 13: into blood pattern is when blood is dripping from height

756
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 13: into a blood source and it creates that neat little

757
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 13: pattern of drip stains with the little satellite spatter around it.

758
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 13: So this would indicate one that this is not a

759
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 13: major injury. Somebody of that age can get skin tears

760
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 13: very easily in their arms on their hands, and those

761
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:43,479
Speaker 13: are going.

762
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 5: To bleed quite a bit.

763
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 13: But it also indicates that this person is upright. They

764
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 13: are stationary for some period of time. But then there's

765
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 13: also movement as well with the drip trail. So nothing

766
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 13: that I'm seeing would indicate that one this person has

767
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 13: a traumatic injury like a gunshot or a stab wound

768
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 13: like projected blood patterns you mentioned cast off from a weapon.

769
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 13: You don't see impact spatter. These are all large volume

770
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 13: stains that are going straight down, indicating that that person

771
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 13: was either walking or stationary.

772
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: But they're upgrade.

773
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 13: The other thing that I look for is why isn't

774
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 13: there blood on the door knob?

775
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: Hold on? Hold on? You got me drinking out of

776
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: the fire hydrant. That's a lot. Okay, I like for

777
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: you to just go, but I've got to dissect what

778
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: you said. I hope I didn't interrupt your train of

779
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: thought and you know that you were going to say.

780
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 1: And second, but could you again slow down and state

781
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: what you just said, because I find it extremely compelling.

782
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 1: And yes, of course blood at a crime scene is

783
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: always bad, it's not good. But given that, would you

784
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: start again with the passive blood spots? The drip stains?

785
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 13: Absolutely, So what we're looking at I'm looking at the

786
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 13: photo right now, there is a drip trail, So those

787
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 13: are individual circular bloodstains. It obviously fell from height, so

788
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 13: this person is upright. There's nothing at all to indicate

789
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 13: that they were dragged. There's nothing that's all to indicate

790
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 13: that they were on the ground and bleeding. You don't

791
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 13: see any blood pools, so that gives me hope that

792
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 13: this person is alive. The drip stains and the blood

793
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 13: and the blood patterns. That's one of the most common

794
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 13: patterns you see at any scene, just because usually somebody's upright,

795
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 13: they realize that they're bleeding, and they're walking around, either

796
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 13: trying to get help or going from one point to another.

797
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, look at the spot right there, Jeffrey.

798
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: I'm following up on what you said. You could almost

799
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: see what would be her footsteps based on what you're saying.

800
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: One by the door, Matt on square two. See it

801
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: starts on square two, square one, starting at the door

802
00:51:52,200 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 1: step step step step. I mean, I'm reading into but

803
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,760
Speaker 1: that's all we can do right now.

804
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 13: That's exactly what you would expect if somebody has, say

805
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 13: a minor injury, and they're kind of standing in the

806
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 13: same spot, kind of moving around. But then a lot

807
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 13: of times people are stepping in their own blood or

808
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 13: the suspect is stepping in their blood. So I hope

809
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 13: the investigators are picking up on that and looking for

810
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 13: footwear impressions or what were the suspects possibly wearing. The

811
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,479
Speaker 13: good thing about her possibly bleeding too is the fact

812
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 13: that her blood is not going to only be at

813
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 13: this scene, but whatever vehicle she was taken in, the

814
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 13: blood's going to be in that vehicle as well. Because

815
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 13: a blood pattern like this, considering that she might be

816
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 13: taking antid coagulant medications, it's not going to stop bleeding

817
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 13: right away. It's going to continue to bleed. And so

818
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 13: that gives you the possibility of a forensic link from

819
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 13: the crime scene to the suspect vehicle. But again, I

820
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 13: don't see anything here that stands out is overly concerning

821
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,879
Speaker 13: regarding debt. There's no blood patterns that would suggest a

822
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 13: major violent event happened and that this person is obviously deceased.

823
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 13: I don't see that at all.

824
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: Everything you just said is music to my ears. Jeffrey

825
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: Gentry breaking it down in an amazing way. Look, she's

826
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: eighty four, she's on med she's got a heart problem,

827
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: she's got a pascemaker, she's bleeding. It's not good. I

828
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 1: know it's not good, but I'm looking for anything. I'm

829
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: looking for anything because I care about Savannah. I want

830
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: there to be a good outcome. But we have to

831
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: look at the facts as we know them. Minor injury

832
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 1: walking upright, no blood pools, she's not on the ground, okay,

833
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: nothing to indicate a traumatic injury such as a gunshot wound,

834
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: no cast off. Okay, what more? And I'd like to

835
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: see the blood again. You were about to say, and second?

836
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: What was second? Was it the vehicle or is there

837
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: something else?

838
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 13: Well, one of the other one of the other things

839
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 13: that I look for is not only where did bleeding

840
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 13: begin and where did it end? Where did the person

841
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 13: start out? Where did they travel to? But I don't

842
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 13: see any blood on the doorframe. I don't see any

843
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 13: blood on the doorknob. It's a black surface on the

844
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 13: screen door. But I don't see anything that would suggests

845
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 13: that she was bleeding and trying to get back inside

846
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 13: of her house. So you got to wonder where did

847
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 13: this begin and where did it end? Like I mentioned,

848
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 13: there's no major blood pools, there's no transfer patterns on

849
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 13: the ground. So we don't think that she was dragged

850
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 13: away from her home. We don't think that she crawled

851
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 13: away from her home. There's only a couple possibilities. Either

852
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 13: she walked away on her own and didn't have any

853
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 13: major injuries, or she was carried away from her home.

854
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 13: But then you got a wonder too, where did this

855
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,280
Speaker 13: blood trail end? Was there any blood in the driveway?

856
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 13: How far did it expend? So I've got I mean, unfortunately,

857
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 13: it does give you a lot of an But then

858
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 13: I've got a lot of questions too, So i would

859
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 13: love to be out there looking round at the scene.

860
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: Hold on, before you start with those questions, can I

861
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: see the closing of the door again, because we were told,

862
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: Dave Mac that there was signs of forced entry, Kash,

863
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 1: I wish we could zeem in on that forced entry,

864
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: but that the door was unlocked, that tells me maybe

865
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: they came fourth. Wait, am I seeing forced entry right

866
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: there on the right? No, I'm not sure that I am.

867
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: They Look at all those locks. There's a heavy duty

868
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 1: it looks like iron screen door with double locks on it.

869
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: Maybe the forced entry was at another entrance or window,

870
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: and then they walked out this way. That's pretty bold

871
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: to walk out of the front door. Am I seeing

872
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: the front door? Dave Mac? I think I am is

873
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: at the front door to her home.

874
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 5: It is, And the thing is, Nancy, You've got to

875
00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 5: realize that we've been told that missus Gusthrie cannot fifty

876
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 5: yards without assistance, so she's not mobile, which means whoever

877
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 5: is taking her out of the house would have to

878
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 5: be helping her, So they wouldn't be able to go

879
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 5: crawling out a window out the way they came in.

880
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,720
Speaker 5: They would pretty much be left with if they're taking

881
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 5: her out to go out the biggest pathway, which is

882
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 5: going to be the front door. And as you mentioned

883
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 5: those blood patterns, if she's got a bloody nose or

884
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 5: something along those lines, as they're taking her out, they're

885
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 5: leading her or I say they because you're kind of

886
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 5: talking to people having to help carry her out and

887
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 5: lead her down the clearest path possible. So that pretty

888
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 5: much makes that a real possibility.

889
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, with my mom, unless she's using her walker, it

890
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: is really hard for me to I can do it,

891
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: but it's really hard to get her up and walk

892
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 1: her by myself. And as Jeffrey Gentry is saying, we

893
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: don't see any indication of the blood that she at

894
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: any point was being dragged along. A lot happening, guys,

895
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: and I know we keep going back to the one

896
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: photo over and over, but that is the way you

897
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 1: prove a case, You take one piece of evidence, it

898
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 1: could be this writing pin right here, and you think

899
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: and you think and you examine until you squeeze every

900
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: bit of information out of that one thing that you can.

901
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: And did you hear, Jeffrey Gentry analyze this blood in

902
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: a way that I have not heard that? Keep thinking, Jeffrey,

903
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: keep thinking and percolating to Brian Fitzgibbons, I want to

904
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:44,439
Speaker 1: talk to you about practicalities, practicalities if this is a ransom. Oh,

905
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: and that reminds me I'm going to circle back Jessica

906
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,959
Speaker 1: and Dave about do we believe this bitcoin account is real?

907
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: Because I've heard that it has been authenticated doesn't mean

908
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: the ransom notes real. They like, somebody could get my

909
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: checking number. They can figure it out right or come

910
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: up with a number, But that doesn't mean I'm part

911
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: of a ransom or a kidnap. So that could be

912
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: a legitimate, authenticated Bitcoin number, account number and still not

913
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: be connected to the Guthries. But to you, Bryan Fitzgibbons,

914
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: you've done this one hundred times. So you ransom someone,

915
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: don't you believe at some juncture you're gonna have to

916
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 1: show proof of life. I mean, why killer, don't you

917
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: think at some point they're gonna have to if they

918
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: want that money, they're gonna have show proof of life.

919
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 6: Absolutely necessary, right, because that's the key to this whole thing.

920
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 6: If this is a kidnapp for ransom case, they will

921
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,680
Speaker 6: want to make it very clear to the Guthrie family

922
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 6: that Nancy is alive and well prior to them sending

923
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 6: any type of ransom money. They would obviously demand that.

924
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 6: So you know that being absent from this ransom note

925
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 6: really stuck out to me because you know, you're not

926
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 6: going to risk communicating too many times without providing it

927
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 6: and potentially exposing your identity.

928
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 1: What do you make of sending it to three different

929
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: outlets k O L D T m Z and K

930
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: GUN K g U N What do you make of

931
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: three different outlets?

932
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 14: Fitz gibbons knee jerk reaction to this Nancy is that

933
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 14: this is either a hoaxter who's trying to make a

934
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 14: quick dollar off of this horrible scenario, or second, if

935
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 14: it is actually tied to the case, that there's some

936
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 14: kind of distraction taking place that they're looking up looking

937
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 14: to tie up resources of lar enforce.

938
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, let me get you to weigh in on

939
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 1: thought that was actually you brought it up as well.

940
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: The blood, the blood conceivably in the car, if she

941
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: is bleeding from the nose, how could they possibly erase

942
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: eradicate the blood from inside the vehicle. And yes, there

943
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: had to be a vehicle. And whoever did this is

944
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: brazen because they took her out the front door, right

945
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: there in her own neighborhood. So tell me about the

946
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: possibility of blood being in the car, Jeffrey Gentry.

947
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 13: So if this is in fact her blood, and I

948
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 13: haven't seen anything in the news that would say that

949
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 13: they did DNA testing already and proved that this was

950
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 13: her blood outside of the house, there's always, I mean,

951
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 13: I guess the possibility that it's a stage crime scene too.

952
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 13: Whenever I teach classes, I use my own blood and

953
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 13: I'll make a pattern exactly like that to demonstrate an

954
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 13: event where somebody's standing up right and bleeding. So there's

955
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 13: always that possibility. So hopefully they've already done the DNA

956
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 13: testing and have confirmed that that is in fact her blood.

957
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 13: But if she's actively bleeding either from the nose, and

958
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 13: my thought is just with her being a little bit older,

959
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:03,640
Speaker 13: rather fragile, that she might have skin tears on her arms.

960
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 13: I would suspect that when they do find her that

961
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 13: she's going to have some kind of skin tears on

962
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 13: her arms that created these blood patterns arms or hands,

963
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 13: because elderly people their skin is thin. But if she's

964
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 13: actively bleeding, she is going to keep bleeding. It's not

965
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 13: going to stop, and so she's going to bleed inside

966
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 13: of the suspect vehicle, either on door handles or inside

967
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 13: on the seats, and that's not really easy to get

968
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 13: rid of. I'm not going to tell everybody exactly how

969
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 13: to get rid of blood, but I could definitely give

970
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 13: you some ideas. But there should be some evidence of

971
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 13: clean up if they did try to get rid of it,

972
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 13: either bleach or other chemicals. And nine out of ten times,

973
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 13: if people suspects are willing to leave behind blood at

974
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 13: a crime scene, they're not going to do a very

975
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 13: good job cleaning up a car. So that leaves me

976
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 13: hope that there is going to be that forensic link

977
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 13: between her residence and the suspect vehicle.

978
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 8: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

979
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 1: Back to Jessica Finn joining a senior investigative reporter us Son,

980
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: What have you learned about the time line? At first

981
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: we were told to forty five am. Now we're thinking

982
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: more about two am. A neighbor states that he went

983
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: by the home at six forty five am and nothing

984
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,919
Speaker 1: was happening, suggesting that she was still there. I think

985
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: it says just the opposite that it was all over.

986
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: She had already been taken by six forty five am.

987
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: What are we learning, if anything, from the neighbors.

988
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 11: Well, so one of the neighbors, a couple of the neighbors.

989
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 11: Now I've seen we have our own reporter on the

990
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 11: ground in Arizona at the US Sun, and then I've

991
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 11: seen other reports of other neighbors who have actually reported

992
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 11: that there were suspicious activity on their own property within

993
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 11: like several blocks of Nancy's home, that people that there

994
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 11: was an individual that had been snooping around and looked suspicious.

995
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 11: The neighbor, one of the neighbors that we spoke to,

996
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 11: had actually called the cops about this incident back when

997
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 11: it happened two months ago. There was another incident in

998
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 11: the last couple of weeks with another neighbor that was

999
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 11: about ten minutes away from Nancy who reported a similar incident,

1000
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 11: and so the and then we have the neighbor that's

1001
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 11: directly across the street who said, when I had emerged

1002
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 11: from my home at six forty five am on Sunday morning,

1003
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 11: I didn't see anything. So you know, again there's her

1004
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 11: car was left behind, her wallet, her keys, her phone.

1005
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 11: You wouldn't notice if Nancy was there or not at

1006
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 11: six forty five in the morning, if she had already

1007
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 11: been taken, because everything was still left as is besides

1008
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 11: Nancy herself. You know, from what we know, she was

1009
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 11: dropped off at nine forty five pm on Saturday night.

1010
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 11: And that drop off what came after she had dinner

1011
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 11: at Savannah's sister Anne Annie's house and Annie's husband Tomaso.

1012
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 11: They had dinner to gain other and then Tamaso drove

1013
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 11: Nancy Gothrie back to her home and he watched her

1014
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 11: go in the door. But of course, by the next

1015
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 11: day she was supposed to show up at church, and

1016
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 11: around eleven am of one of her fellow parishioners called

1017
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 11: the cops to called the family first to let the

1018
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 11: family know she wasn't there, and then the family went

1019
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 11: to go check on the house. Of course, the cops recalled,

1020
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 11: that's kind of the general timeline that we're working with.

1021
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: I noticed that you just said that the son in

1022
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: law dropped her off, not the daughter, and that he

1023
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: waited for her to get into the home before he left.

1024
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 12: Correct, Yeah, it is, it is.

1025
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 11: It's be confirmed that he was the last guy to see.

1026
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 1: Her, okay, and they all had dinner together before that.

1027
01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: Is that right?

1028
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 12: That is correct?

1029
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: Okay. At this hour, we are learning that multiple experts

1030
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: are pushing a multiple abductor theory. Jessica, Why, Well.

1031
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 11: For a number of reasons, she's not mobile, like like

1032
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 11: we've said earlier in the broadcast, she can't get around

1033
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 11: on her own, so it would take some effort to

1034
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 11: actually physically get her out of the house. And not

1035
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 11: in the sense that it would take two people to

1036
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,439
Speaker 11: carry her, but you need like somebody to escort her out,

1037
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 11: You need the waiting car, you need to get her

1038
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 11: in the car fairly quickly. And so there's the idea

1039
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 11: that you know, really this is at least a two

1040
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 11: man job. There's also been some theories that there possibly

1041
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 11: was like a junior an abductor or kidnapper involved who

1042
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 11: may have been scoping out the property in the days

1043
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 11: and weeks before this actually all went down.

1044
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 12: But it does seem that at.

1045
01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 11: Least the very night of likely requires a couple of

1046
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 11: people to get her out of the house and quietly

1047
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 11: gag her if needed, and get her into the car

1048
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 11: and then swiftly drive away.

1049
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 1: Dave mac joining us some crime stories, Dave, what can

1050
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: you tell me? Can you expound upon the sidings of

1051
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: a quote suspicious person?

1052
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 5: Actually, Nancy, Yeah, they're actually more than one. Okay. A

1053
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 5: suspicious man was actually seen lurking in someone's yard a

1054
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago, and he wasn't just like a phantom.

1055
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 5: It was enough that he actually set off a motion

1056
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:19,919
Speaker 5: detecting light that awoke the homeowner. This was about ten

1057
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,960
Speaker 5: minutes away from Nancy Guthrie's home. You know, as we've mentioned,

1058
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 5: it is a neighborhood, but the homes are not bright

1059
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 5: pressed up against one another. There is a little distance

1060
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 5: between them. This is an elderly man and he says

1061
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 5: he caught the guy in his yard after the motion

1062
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 5: sensor went off and the flood light switches on. The

1063
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 5: light spooke the guy and the fellow left away, but

1064
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 5: that's not the only one, Nancy. That was several weeks ago.

1065
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 5: But now we find out that there was a suspicious, tall,

1066
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 5: strange man reportedly lurking in a yard near Nancy Guthrie's

1067
01:06:55,800 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 5: residence about thirty minutes before police arrived. Thirty minutes before

1068
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 5: police arrived, a strange man in the neighborhood. All I

1069
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 5: could think of was Cobert or going back the next morning.

1070
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 5: So we've got at least two different individuals.

1071
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: Degree I disagree, and I'll tell you why, because somebody had

1072
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: to be with Nancy Guthrie. Sure, unless there's more than

1073
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 1: one person involved, I don't think that that well, But

1074
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: you know what, You're right, Coburger did go back. Coburger

1075
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: did go back.

1076
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 5: I think you're talking about having more than one person

1077
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 5: getting around. And again this goes back to her lack

1078
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 5: of mobility, her size, medium build, and eighty four years old.

1079
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 5: She's not going to be moving fast. You're going to

1080
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 5: have to have help to come out of that house.

1081
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 5: And you talk about you're taking care with your mother

1082
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 5: to get her moved around, and these are people that

1083
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 5: don't care, and it's not going to be easy. So

1084
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 5: I'm thinking there had to be at least two, so

1085
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 5: there might be somebody sitting with her wherever they are,

1086
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 5: while the other one's back there watching what's happening.

1087
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: To Bethany Marshall joining us a renown psycho analyst doctor

1088
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: to beathet. It's my experience when you bring somebody else

1089
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: in on your crime, at some point somebody's going to talk,

1090
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 1: or the wife of the purp knows about it, or

1091
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 1: the girlfriend, or just starting to get too big and

1092
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 1: too many people know about it. What do you think?

1093
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 7: That's what I've been thinking. I share your thoughts about that.

1094
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 7: I was thinking, who is sitting at home watching their

1095
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 7: TV or reading the news online and thinking, hmmm, my

1096
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 7: husband left at midnight. I wonder where he went. There's

1097
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 7: somebody out there who knows something. Nancy. In terms of.

1098
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 12: These blood drops, you know.

1099
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 7: She had a pacemaker, which tells me she was also

1100
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 7: on blood the thinners, right, because you typically prescribe that

1101
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,839
Speaker 7: to people about pacemakers, and that the life saving medication

1102
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 7: may in fact be her blood thinner, right, so that

1103
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 7: without that there's a chance of her heart throwing off

1104
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 7: plot or having a stroke or something like that. Another

1105
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 7: question is if the blood drops and right there on

1106
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 7: the doorstep, how did they get her all the way

1107
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 7: out to wherever the car was. Did they have a

1108
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 7: wheelchair waiting for her, which in which case they know

1109
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 7: a lot about her and her health issues. Okay, so

1110
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 7: that's very important to me. And was there blood in

1111
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 7: her bed? I mean, people who are in blood dinners

1112
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 7: often they just bleed during the night without even realizing it.

1113
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 7: And then also if the blood stopped on the doorstep,

1114
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 7: did somebody have a cloth or a bandage or something

1115
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 7: waiting for her to stop the blood drops? And just

1116
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 7: one of their quick thought Nancy, you know, I'm sure

1117
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 7: NBC is combing through all of Savannah Guthrie's emails. Did

1118
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 7: she did she cover a story that made somebody angry

1119
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 7: or pissed off or threatened? Was there somebody stalking her

1120
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 7: or threatening sending threatening emails? I mean you said the

1121
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 7: vengeful nature of the random of the ransom note or else?

1122
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,559
Speaker 7: Is that reflected in language of emails that have been

1123
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 7: sent her? Because she is a well known figure and

1124
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 7: they have a lot of security at NBC, And that's

1125
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:16,679
Speaker 7: an angle that I think nobody's talking about. It would

1126
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 7: be really interesting to know more.

1127
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 1: Okay, At the risk of poo pooing doctor beth Andy

1128
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 1: Marshall focused on doctor I'm certainly not a renounce psychoanalyst,

1129
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 1: but that sounds like a fifth grade girl's mystery novel

1130
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 1: that Savannah covered a story and somebody read the story

1131
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:38,599
Speaker 1: or heard the story and got so mad that they went, oh,

1132
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to track down her mom on the other

1133
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 1: side of the country and kidnap her and ask for money.

1134
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 7: Hey, Nancy, I've had hate and threatening emails after being

1135
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 7: on yours show.

1136
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: You know, thank you.

1137
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 7: People read all kinds of meanings into what they hear

1138
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 7: public figures say. But also could it have incited somebody

1139
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 7: into thinking about how to get back at Savannah or

1140
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 7: put our front and center of some disgruntled person's life.

1141
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:09,480
Speaker 7: I think that's something that should be explored.

1142
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 1: You know, I can't poopoo anything because who would have

1143
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:19,719
Speaker 1: thought that a PhD criminology student teacher would target four

1144
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: random people he's never met and murder them in the

1145
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:28,759
Speaker 1: middle of the night. No sex attack, no robbery. It's

1146
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: almost unheard of. So I really don't have a leg

1147
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 1: to stand on to poo poo anything at this Junctor

1148
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: speaking of trolls, Jessica Finn joining us us Son. What

1149
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:45,480
Speaker 1: about it. I've heard that there are evil trolls attacking

1150
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: Savannah at a time like this.

1151
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:50,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, incredibly, I guess not incredibly.

1152
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 12: It is the world that we live in, right.

1153
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 11: There have been several notes since to Savannah through NBC basically,

1154
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 11: you know, claiming that they did this, and all sorts

1155
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 11: of horrible allegations and threats to her. It's really kind

1156
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 11: of thrown her name aggressively into the national lexicon in

1157
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 11: a way that has not been you know, in a

1158
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 11: way that her name has not been.

1159
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:15,599
Speaker 12: Out there before.

1160
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 11: And unfortunately, when you're a victim of a crime, as

1161
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 11: you know, Nancy, you've become victimized even further often as

1162
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 11: a case like this unwind.

1163
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 4: One of the.

1164
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 11: Stories that I did earlier this week at the Sun,

1165
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 11: actually to Bethany's point, is how NBC has stepped up

1166
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 11: security in and around thirty rock as a result of

1167
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 11: this case. That people on air, that the on air

1168
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 11: talent are very spooked over this whole situation.

1169
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 12: They're all very concerned for their own.

1170
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 11: Families and their own lives, and NBC has stepped up

1171
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 11: security around thirty Rocky. They've also had additional NYPD patrols

1172
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 11: going on in the area. So this has had a

1173
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 11: real chilling and ripple effect throughout the NBC family.

1174
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:02,120
Speaker 1: Gibbs, how hard is it to track bitcoin?

1175
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 6: You know, what we learned recently is that this Bitcoin

1176
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:12,479
Speaker 6: account associated with the ransom note is indeed an authentic account. Now,

1177
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 6: when it comes to tracking the ownership of that account,

1178
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 6: that is certainly going to be a more difficult task.

1179
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 1: Really, I thought it would be more like an IP

1180
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: address on a computer.

1181
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:29,600
Speaker 4: This could be a lot more complicated than that.

1182
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,720
Speaker 1: Nancy, Well, okay, what do you mean by that. I'm

1183
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:34,800
Speaker 1: just a lawyer. What are you talking about? Why is

1184
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 1: it hard to track a bitcoin account? Somebody's got to

1185
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: create it, it's got to be listed back to somewhere,

1186
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 1: it's got to be attached to Is it attached to

1187
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 1: a bank or no.

1188
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 4: It's going to be possible. But bitcoin inherently has certain

1189
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:52,719
Speaker 4: amounts of privacy, a lot more than a standard bank

1190
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 4: account or an IP address would have. So you would

1191
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:57,480
Speaker 4: have to assume.

1192
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 6: That, again, if this is a an authentic ransom demand,

1193
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 6: that the author of that ransom note has gone to

1194
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:11,320
Speaker 6: great lengths to secure that Bitcoin account. That could not

1195
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:14,320
Speaker 6: be traced back to them, and that is certainly possible.

1196
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: Aren't they id by alpha numeric wallet addresses and not names?

1197
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:22,680
Speaker 6: That is correct, So you're not going to have an

1198
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 6: individual's name and street address associated with it like you would.

1199
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 4: You know, if they said, you know, wire.

1200
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 6: Money to this routing number in this checking account number,

1201
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 6: you know, that would be easily traced and verified.

1202
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:38,559
Speaker 1: Well, I can tell you this. You may think it's

1203
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 1: hard to try bitcoin, and maybe it is, but what

1204
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 1: are they going to let it sit there forever? At

1205
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: some point they're going to move it. And you want

1206
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:49,720
Speaker 1: to tell me the Feds aren't going to be up

1207
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: their tailpipes three inches when they try to move that

1208
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:59,679
Speaker 1: to another account, to another account, to another account. I mean, Washington, DC,

1209
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 1: the the FBI, They're crawling with people that are digital experts.

1210
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: This is their super Bowl. Just please put money in

1211
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 1: that bitcoin account and see what happens. Although I find

1212
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 1: it interesting, I think doctor Bethany brought it up that

1213
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 1: it was sent to three news outlets tmz KO l

1214
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: D and k gun K g u N. Why then,

1215
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,479
Speaker 1: why not? Why not the family? Okay, hold on just

1216
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 1: a second, I want to make sure we've covered everything.

1217
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 1: The story that's floating around about an elite group from

1218
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 1: Border Patrol entering into the fray Dave mac that's been discredited, correct.

1219
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 5: Not just discredited. They were brought in for the first

1220
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 5: day of searching in the area around the home, but

1221
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 5: they were sent home Monday night.

1222
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: Right now, I understand that the search is back on drones, helicopters,

1223
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: foot searches had been called off for a period of

1224
01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 1: time and they have been renewed. That gives me hope.

1225
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: That gives me hope that le law enforcement believes that

1226
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 1: they can find something through those searches. If you know

1227
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 1: or think you know anything about the disappearance of this

1228
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:21,840
Speaker 1: beautiful Grandma, Nancy Guthrie, please dial five two zero three

1229
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 1: five one four nine hundred repeat five two zero three

1230
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: five one four nine hundred before I sign off. Jeffrey Gentry,

1231
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 1: I gave you a minute to think through what you're hearing,

1232
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:38,760
Speaker 1: any other analysis of the scene or the.

1233
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 13: Blood any I can think it's crazy that anybody would

1234
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 13: think that they'd get away with this, Like you said,

1235
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 13: I mean, with the FBI hundreds of detectives working on it,

1236
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,719
Speaker 13: how do they possibly think that this is a crime

1237
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 13: that they can get away with. So I do definitely

1238
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 13: believe that there is good hope that she's still alive,

1239
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 13: especially considering the patterns, the circumstances, and hopefully they find

1240
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,799
Speaker 13: her and quickly and the rest of people that are involved.

1241
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:10,759
Speaker 1: I agree again tipline five two zero three, five one four,

1242
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:16,960
Speaker 1: nine hundred, and not only that, we are seeking help

1243
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,320
Speaker 1: from a higher source, and we ask that you join

1244
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 1: the Guthrie family and the Crime Stories family in prayers

1245
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:29,000
Speaker 1: for the safe return of Nancy Guthrie to the loving

1246
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 1: arms of her daughter, Savannah. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,

1247
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie's mother missing, Day five. I'm Nancy Grace. This

1248
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:50,679
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being

1249
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:55,080
Speaker 1: with us in the last hours. A presser from local

1250
01:17:55,520 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 1: law enforcement. This following literally a heart breaking plea from Savannah,

1251
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: her sister Annie, and brother Cameron, all three looking exhausted,

1252
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:15,759
Speaker 1: bone weary. We'll play that back for you in full

1253
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,720
Speaker 1: in just a moment, but first to the latest, I

1254
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 1: want you to hear what the sheriff said in the

1255
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: last hours.

1256
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 2: I'll go over it with you.

1257
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 4: You can see it on the board there.

1258
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 3: But at about five thirty two pm, these are approximate times.

1259
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 3: Five thirty two PM, Nancy travels to her local family's

1260
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 3: home for dinner and playing games with.

1261
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,639
Speaker 2: The family, just visiting.

1262
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 3: At nine eight pm, which is very consistent to what

1263
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:47,360
Speaker 3: we were told by the family, that Nancy was dropped

1264
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 3: off at home, and we know that because we have

1265
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:54,080
Speaker 3: a garage door open at approximately I can't stress that

1266
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:59,720
Speaker 3: enough at approximately ninety eight pm, at nine fifty pm,

1267
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 3: that garage door closes because that time we assume that

1268
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:09,559
Speaker 3: Nancy's home and probably going to bed. Sunday morning, early

1269
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 3: morning at one seven am, the door doorbail camera disconnects.

1270
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:19,320
Speaker 4: At twelve am.

1271
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 3: Software detects a person on a camera, but there's no

1272
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 3: video available. They had no subscription and therefore it would

1273
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:32,439
Speaker 3: rewrite itself kind of. It just kind of loops right

1274
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 3: and covers up. That's what our analysis teams have told us.

1275
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 3: We're not done with that. We'll do all we can,

1276
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:43,679
Speaker 3: but that's what it says. So the detects a person

1277
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 3: on camera. Could that be an animal? I imagine that's possible.

1278
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 3: We don't know that. We just have no video or

1279
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:54,919
Speaker 3: we're not giving up on that. Two twenty eight, Nancy's

1280
01:19:54,960 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 3: pacemaker app shows that it was a disconnect from the phone,

1281
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 3: and at eleven fifty six am, the family checks on Nancy,

1282
01:20:08,280 --> 01:20:13,040
Speaker 3: discovers her missing, and at twelve o three pm nine

1283
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:15,200
Speaker 3: to one one is called in to the pen County

1284
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 3: Chef's department.

1285
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 1: What are we learning? Nine forty eight The garage door opens,

1286
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:30,880
Speaker 1: nine point fifty, it closes, door cam disconnects one forty seven,

1287
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 1: so nine ten, eleven twelve one four hours later to twelve.

1288
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:40,480
Speaker 1: I don't see how they can say this is a coincidence.

1289
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,639
Speaker 1: This is an animal. The door cam disconnects at one

1290
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: forty seven two twelve. Software detects a person on camera,

1291
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have to have Fitzgibbons explain what he's

1292
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 1: saying about looping and covering it up to twenty eight wow.

1293
01:20:56,080 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: Sixteen minutes later, her pacemaker disconnects from the phone, which

1294
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 1: means simply, it goes twenty thirty feet away from her iPhone,

1295
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 1: which was left there in the home. Doesn't mean it

1296
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: quit working. It means it got away from the phone.

1297
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 1: The phone can't trace it anymore. Eleven fifty six family

1298
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 1: checks on Nancy. Twelve three it's on joining me tonight,

1299
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: an All Star panel to make sense of what we

1300
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 1: are learning now we just got that timeline so much

1301
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 1: as being made of is one of the family a suspect?

1302
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: And we heard the share of Today's state. We don't

1303
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:39,759
Speaker 1: have a suspect, we don't have a person of interest.

1304
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 1: Yet everyone is under suspicion. That's what they always say.

1305
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:47,679
Speaker 1: Everybody is under suspicion. But what would it take Bethany

1306
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:52,280
Speaker 1: Marshall for family members to sit with her that evening,

1307
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: be with her and pretend nothing was going to happen,

1308
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 1: all the while plotting and planning her kidnap and faking it.

1309
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 1: I just did you see Savannah Guthrie, sister Annie and

1310
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 1: brother Cameron. They did not look like any of them

1311
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 1: were faking it. I know Savannah, she's not faking it.

1312
01:22:11,600 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: I get a deluge of people online suggesting she is

1313
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 1: somehow part of this. That's just ridiculous. No, that did

1314
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 1: not happen. But look at their demeanors, Doctor Beth and

1315
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:25,679
Speaker 1: I let's just clear that up right now.

1316
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 7: Nancy's children are not responsible for this. They are not.

1317
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 7: I mean, I look at their demeanor, their distraught, their concerned.

1318
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 7: This is their mother. We don't have any history to

1319
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 7: suggest that they had an antagonistic relationship with their mother.

1320
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:47,000
Speaker 7: They she was invited into the home on a Saturday

1321
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:50,320
Speaker 7: night to play games and hang out with the family.

1322
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:55,559
Speaker 7: This is a beloved mother and grandmother. Now what we

1323
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:58,479
Speaker 7: don't know, and I keep waiting for this, is we

1324
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:02,600
Speaker 7: don't know about givers, gardeners, people who are coming in

1325
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:06,600
Speaker 7: and out of her life, bankers, financial people. There's somebody

1326
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 7: in her inner circle, somebody should confides in, maybe outside

1327
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 7: of her, her the sibling group of her children, who

1328
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:19,479
Speaker 7: might know something about somebody who is pestering her, bothering her,

1329
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 7: somebody she has a suspicion about.

1330
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 12: And that's what.

1331
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:25,400
Speaker 7: I'm really, really so curious about. And none of that

1332
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:26,559
Speaker 7: has come out so far.

1333
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:31,360
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, Again, I want to look at Savannah, Annie

1334
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 1: and Cameron last night. Again, I am getting deludes with

1335
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 1: people suggesting that they are somehow part of their own

1336
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:42,840
Speaker 1: mother's disappearance. They say, look at Annie, she's not moving,

1337
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:47,240
Speaker 1: she's not saying anything. Well, clearly, they designated Savannah to speak,

1338
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: that's what she does for a living. Their numb. I've

1339
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:53,160
Speaker 1: got to defend them, Dr Bethany.

1340
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 8: Their numb.

1341
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 1: They're exhausted, that's why they're not lively and chattering in

1342
01:23:58,360 --> 01:23:59,160
Speaker 1: the background.

1343
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 7: I'm going to use a clinical term. They're dissociated. We

1344
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 7: dissociate when the reality is unbearable. This is unbearable. Their

1345
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:13,320
Speaker 7: dear mother is gone. There is blood on the front doorstep.

1346
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 7: They can't even contemplate Nancy. You've talked about your mother.

1347
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:22,719
Speaker 7: If something happened to her, you wouldn't You would panic,

1348
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 7: But then you would become numb too, because the possibilities

1349
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:30,560
Speaker 7: are so overwhelming. They don't know if their mother is

1350
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:35,800
Speaker 7: being if she's alive, if she's dead. They can't even

1351
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 7: feel Nancy. That's what we're seeing.

1352
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 1: You know, I was looking very you said, I was

1353
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 1: looking very carefully at that door photo, the photo of

1354
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:49,000
Speaker 1: the front door and the step way, the driveway walkway

1355
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 1: where there's blood. If you look carefully to the right

1356
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:57,479
Speaker 1: of that double lock, there is a red smudge and

1357
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 1: it's in close proximity to the blood on the ground

1358
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:07,599
Speaker 1: on the walkway. Is that Nancy's blood? Now we've been

1359
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 1: told and correct me if I'm wrong, Dave mac that

1360
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:13,040
Speaker 1: there was no blood on the interior of the home

1361
01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 1: that they've been able to identify. Yet, I would I.

1362
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 5: Would make sure you say yet. They haven't said that

1363
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 5: it's been there yet, but they did identify the blood

1364
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,679
Speaker 5: right there at the entryway as being Nancy.

1365
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: Well, if there's blood on the inside, then why haven't

1366
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 1: they identified that either? And you know another thing joining

1367
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 1: US guys Brian Fitzgibbons from USPA Nationwide Security for a living,

1368
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:38,599
Speaker 1: he leads a team of investigators that go worldwide finding

1369
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 1: missing people. You can get blood DNA analysis back overnight,

1370
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 1: almost immediately. I don't know what they're talking about that

1371
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 1: they're waiting on samples. Maybe they've gotten unidentified DNA and

1372
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:56,000
Speaker 1: they're trying to get a sample from that that would

1373
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:56,559
Speaker 1: take longer.

1374
01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that there's probably some touch DNA from

1375
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 6: the inside that they're looking to analyze. And with now

1376
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:08,800
Speaker 6: the FBI announcing that they're jointly on this case, the

1377
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:12,440
Speaker 6: ability to process these things much faster.

1378
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:14,160
Speaker 4: Is going to come into play.

1379
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 6: So, you know, I think in the coming days we're

1380
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 6: going to learn a lot more about the.

1381
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:26,320
Speaker 8: Pane crime stories with Nancy Grace.

1382
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:35,559
Speaker 1: So the mom is dropped off early in the evening,

1383
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:39,840
Speaker 1: around nine forty eight. That's when the garage door has

1384
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 1: activity nine fifty The garage door closes with me as

1385
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:47,759
Speaker 1: I mentioned an all star panel Dave Matt Crime Stories

1386
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 1: investigative reporter on this case from the very beginning. Brian Fitzgibbons,

1387
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 1: I just introduced you to him USPA Nationwide Security and

1388
01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:59,960
Speaker 1: a renounced psychoanalyst, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of

1389
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 1: She's the author of deal Breakers. You can see her

1390
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,200
Speaker 1: starring on Peacock now and find her at doctor Bethanymarshall

1391
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:12,760
Speaker 1: dot com. We're talking about the timeline. Looking at the timeline,

1392
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:22,560
Speaker 1: one forty seven a m. The doorbell disconnects, one seven

1393
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 1: a m. The door cam, doorbell cam disconnects, two twelve am.

1394
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:36,679
Speaker 1: Software detects a person on camera, but see the camera

1395
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 1: part of that has been disconnected. So while the software

1396
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 1: is picking up movement, the cam isn't seeing it. That's

1397
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 1: how I understand it. But then Brian Fitzgibbons, he launches

1398
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 1: into some discussion that it could have been an animal.

1399
01:27:56,560 --> 01:28:01,479
Speaker 1: My question is why would the doorcam disconnect. I mean,

1400
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,599
Speaker 1: look in the picture, there's just a silver circle where

1401
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:08,360
Speaker 1: the doorcam used to be, right, It's that silver thing

1402
01:28:08,479 --> 01:28:12,479
Speaker 1: right there, that's where the doorcam used to be it

1403
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:18,639
Speaker 1: fit right there, it's gone. Now what is he trying

1404
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 1: to say? What is he saying? Brian?

1405
01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 6: The the the animal comment was perplexing. I believe what

1406
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:29,559
Speaker 6: the sheriff is saying is that at one seven that

1407
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 6: doorbell camera was removed from its base so that there

1408
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 6: was some digital log in.

1409
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:36,639
Speaker 4: The camera to that effect.

1410
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:38,840
Speaker 6: And now at two twelve you have to understand, and

1411
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:43,640
Speaker 6: nest camera has three modes home, away, and off, and

1412
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 6: in the home mode it will still register seeing a

1413
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:49,960
Speaker 6: person and that.

1414
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 4: Will log that data in a log.

1415
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,680
Speaker 6: That it saw a person, but it won't be recording

1416
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 6: well in home mode, So you know, was the camera

1417
01:28:59,080 --> 01:28:59,719
Speaker 6: in home mode?

1418
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:03,439
Speaker 4: It just it log that event. That's what it seems

1419
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:03,920
Speaker 4: to be to me.

1420
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:06,320
Speaker 6: I don't think that these cameras are going to mistake

1421
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 6: a person for an animal. Most of the most of

1422
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 6: the cameras nowadays will accurately record, you know, if they

1423
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:16,680
Speaker 6: see a dog or a deer walk by it.

1424
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:18,759
Speaker 4: It will record an animal over a person.

1425
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 1: I've been saying, Ringmel, it's a nest. You're you're right, Brian,

1426
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,400
Speaker 1: Now tell me how that works again. And I want

1427
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 1: to make what you say and what he said both

1428
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: be true. I want you to reconcile what he said,

1429
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,439
Speaker 1: decipher it, and tell me what happened.

1430
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:39,800
Speaker 6: What it sounds like to me, Nancy, is that that

1431
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 6: camera was popped off from the inside of the house

1432
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 6: so it didn't register seeing anybody, and then when it

1433
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 6: was moved at two.

1434
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 4: Twelve, it actually sees a person.

1435
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 6: So I think what we can see, what we can

1436
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 6: glean from this timeline is the doorbell camera was disconnected

1437
01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:00,960
Speaker 6: off the base. Twenty five minutes later, that camera is

1438
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 6: moved and it's pointing in the direction that it actually

1439
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:07,439
Speaker 6: registers contact with a person.

1440
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:09,400
Speaker 1: Let's hear it from the horse's mouth.

1441
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 3: The doorbell camera, it was removed. We know that, but

1442
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:19,599
Speaker 3: we're not confirming that any cameras were smashed or destroyed

1443
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:20,240
Speaker 3: around the house.

1444
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:27,200
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, Dave mac speaking of cameras quote around

1445
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:30,880
Speaker 1: the house, is that you're understanding there were granny cams,

1446
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:34,559
Speaker 1: as I call the ones we have from a mom.

1447
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:37,000
Speaker 1: You know, there's nanny cams, I call them granny cams.

1448
01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:40,920
Speaker 1: Were there granny cams in Missus Guthrie's home.

1449
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 5: That is what has been reported that there were granny cams,

1450
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 5: as you say, in the home that were there and

1451
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:50,759
Speaker 5: covering certain areas of the home so that if Missus

1452
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 5: Guthrie were to fall down or becoming capacitated, they would

1453
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,720
Speaker 5: be they being the family or whoever had access, which

1454
01:30:56,760 --> 01:30:59,599
Speaker 5: we're told a very small group of people had access

1455
01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 5: to the cameras and they could actually see what was

1456
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 5: taking place inside the home while she was alone. We've

1457
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:09,960
Speaker 5: pointed this out. Eighty four years old, great mental health. Physically,

1458
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,920
Speaker 5: she's got some issues walking around, so it makes sense

1459
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 5: that they would have cameras inside the house. Interesting that

1460
01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:19,839
Speaker 5: the sheriff wasn't asked a question about the cameras inside

1461
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 5: the home. He volunteered that information, saying that they didn't

1462
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,639
Speaker 5: have smashed. His comment was, I don't know where you're

1463
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 5: getting that information. Smashed cameras inside that home would indicate

1464
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:35,920
Speaker 5: somebody was in there that a knew the cameras were,

1465
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 5: knew where they were placed, and also knew where they

1466
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:43,759
Speaker 5: were angled to pick up movement of Missus Guthrie inside

1467
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 5: the home, and that individual or people or persons who's

1468
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:50,799
Speaker 5: been able to avoid showing up on those camera angles

1469
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 5: so they wouldn't be picked up.

1470
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:55,760
Speaker 1: I believe his words were to the effect, no cameras

1471
01:31:55,880 --> 01:32:00,639
Speaker 1: inside the house were destroyed, which tells me that there

1472
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:03,400
Speaker 1: are cameras inside the house. I mean, am I reading

1473
01:32:03,439 --> 01:32:04,960
Speaker 1: that incorrectly? Guys?

1474
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:06,320
Speaker 4: No, you're absolutely right.

1475
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:10,519
Speaker 6: That's exactly what we learned from that statement from the sheriff,

1476
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:14,719
Speaker 6: that there are cameras inside the house. He has also,

1477
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:19,120
Speaker 6: unfortunately indicated that they don't seem to have any of

1478
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:20,719
Speaker 6: the footage from those cameras.

1479
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 4: He mentioned a couple of things.

1480
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:29,360
Speaker 1: He said something Brian about looping and covering itself, looping

1481
01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:32,960
Speaker 1: over and covering up images of someone. What is he saying?

1482
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:36,439
Speaker 6: Yeah that I was trying to figure out Nancy, and

1483
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 6: my best crack at that is basically, maybe it was

1484
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 6: the mode that this camera was set in, that it

1485
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 6: was not set to record, but it was logging events,

1486
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:52,719
Speaker 6: and that they're working with Nest and Google to try

1487
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:54,679
Speaker 6: to extract that.

1488
01:32:54,760 --> 01:32:57,639
Speaker 1: Another question I have is at two twelve am, software

1489
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:03,759
Speaker 1: detects movement on the camera, but they Nest has already

1490
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 1: been disconnected. So I'm trying to reconcile that. Does that

1491
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:12,360
Speaker 1: mean it picks that movement but it can no longer

1492
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 1: record an image or it doesn't record an image only movement.

1493
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:19,800
Speaker 1: Could you break it down in simple terms.

1494
01:33:19,520 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 6: Brian, Yeah, to explain this simply, these doorbell camera cameras

1495
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 6: will have battery power to them. Okay, so you could

1496
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:31,879
Speaker 6: disconnect it from that base. Then an event gets logged,

1497
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 6: you know, within its software, and that now you've moved it,

1498
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:39,600
Speaker 6: but it's not seeing any person.

1499
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 4: As it's moving.

1500
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:43,559
Speaker 6: When you turn that, you know, twenty five minutes later,

1501
01:33:43,640 --> 01:33:46,799
Speaker 6: somebody picks it up and it's pointing towards a person.

1502
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:51,760
Speaker 6: Now it's logging that that event again, that it saw

1503
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:52,640
Speaker 6: the person.

1504
01:33:53,240 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 1: So it logs it. But is there an image because

1505
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 1: he's saying it loops over? Did it ever record an image?

1506
01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,800
Speaker 1: What I'm getting at. If it ever did record an image,

1507
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 1: whether it looped over it or not, could that be

1508
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 1: obtained from the cloud or is it connected to a

1509
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:09,759
Speaker 1: local server.

1510
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 6: My assumption would be that it did not, that it

1511
01:34:13,160 --> 01:34:14,759
Speaker 6: did not record an image.

1512
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:19,719
Speaker 1: Guys, we're also hearing more about ransom notes.

1513
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:22,480
Speaker 15: So the rational note that was distributed to the media

1514
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:27,000
Speaker 15: did make a demand for five pm today and if

1515
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:29,400
Speaker 15: a transfer wasn't made then I think a second demand

1516
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:32,639
Speaker 15: was for next Monday. We're not going to go beyond

1517
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:35,200
Speaker 15: that without what's the Ranstom note.

1518
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:37,439
Speaker 1: The media received well, it seems to me they've missed

1519
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:43,320
Speaker 1: today's five pm deadline, so we've got another deadline. Got

1520
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:46,840
Speaker 1: a question, did you guys glean that the ransom notes

1521
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:51,479
Speaker 1: sent to at least two, possibly three news outlets were

1522
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:55,680
Speaker 1: the exact same ransom note? That's my understanding as we

1523
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 1: go to air right now? What about it? Dave mac It.

1524
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:01,120
Speaker 5: Seems to be that is the case because they they

1525
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 5: they being the Sheriff's Department. Law enforcement has not indicated

1526
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:07,920
Speaker 5: that they were all different individual and what is being

1527
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:12,679
Speaker 5: reported is consistent from all outlets so far. You'll got

1528
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:15,880
Speaker 5: let's they're in Tucson Local TV, but then you've got

1529
01:35:15,880 --> 01:35:19,439
Speaker 5: the national angle of it with DMZ and they appear

1530
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:23,200
Speaker 5: to all say the same information. So whether they're identical,

1531
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:27,360
Speaker 5: I don't know. But it was emailed to the outlets,

1532
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:29,960
Speaker 5: and that would be indicative of easy enough just to

1533
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:32,200
Speaker 5: you know, copy and paste or forward whatever you want

1534
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 5: to do.

1535
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:36,680
Speaker 1: Okay, if it's emailed, why don't we have the IP provider?

1536
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:42,759
Speaker 1: But how are ways that criminals hide the location from

1537
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:44,639
Speaker 1: which they send an email?

1538
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 8: Brian?

1539
01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:48,720
Speaker 6: Yes, so they could use a series of VPNs to

1540
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:53,560
Speaker 6: protect this, you know where they created the email accounts.

1541
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 6: You know, depending on how nuanced they are, they could

1542
01:35:56,160 --> 01:36:00,360
Speaker 6: make this very very difficult. Now, what I will say is,

1543
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:05,280
Speaker 6: if there's any team, the FBI is probably the best.

1544
01:36:05,000 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 4: In the world at unwinding that.

1545
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:11,600
Speaker 6: So you know, it takes time, and I think that

1546
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:14,240
Speaker 6: that is something that they're clearly clearly focused on.

1547
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:17,719
Speaker 1: Now, when you say VPN, you mean a virtual private network,

1548
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:21,840
Speaker 1: How does that work? Because it seems to me that

1549
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:24,920
Speaker 1: that could easily be pierced. You're on your computer and

1550
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:27,920
Speaker 1: you go to private browser, I mean, how do you

1551
01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:28,960
Speaker 1: how do you do VP?

1552
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:34,040
Speaker 6: And Brian, No, this would be far more nuanced in

1553
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 6: order to hide your identity from the FBI. It would

1554
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:42,200
Speaker 6: be far more nuanced than subscribing to a VPN service.

1555
01:36:43,160 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 6: You would need to have planned out the devices you're

1556
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:49,120
Speaker 6: going to use, how you're going to connect to the internet,

1557
01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:56,519
Speaker 6: and then layering filtering that message through multiple devices that

1558
01:36:56,520 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 6: that might be not located with you. So I'd be

1559
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:03,680
Speaker 6: unable to predict exactly how they did it.

1560
01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:07,759
Speaker 4: But my guess is it was a pretty nuanced effort

1561
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:08,360
Speaker 4: to protect that.

1562
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:12,200
Speaker 1: So it's more than just an email masking service like

1563
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 1: simple log In or Firefox Relay. It's not just an

1564
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 1: email masking service. Could you be a little more clear

1565
01:37:19,800 --> 01:37:21,160
Speaker 1: about how it's done.

1566
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:24,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess the key point that I'm trying to

1567
01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:28,600
Speaker 6: make is, if you're going to hide your identity in

1568
01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:32,280
Speaker 6: sending an email from the FBI, it's not going to

1569
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:35,719
Speaker 6: be a nine to ninety nine a month subscription service

1570
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:38,080
Speaker 6: that you log into and sign up for. You know,

1571
01:37:38,160 --> 01:37:41,560
Speaker 6: you're going to have to have some pretty advanced technical

1572
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:46,040
Speaker 6: skills to at least delay that process.

1573
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:48,599
Speaker 4: My bet is that they.

1574
01:37:48,479 --> 01:37:50,960
Speaker 6: Will be able to find the origin of that email.

1575
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:53,439
Speaker 6: How long it'll take, I don't know.

1576
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:56,520
Speaker 1: Bottom line though, if they find the origin of the email,

1577
01:37:56,720 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 1: it could be an internet cafe where somebody goes in

1578
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:03,760
Speaker 1: in disguise even though they're recorded, and they log on

1579
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 1: with a fake email and they send the ransom and

1580
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:14,439
Speaker 1: they send it to the three news outlets, including Team

1581
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:19,240
Speaker 1: Z and Kold. So how is that gonna help me?

1582
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:24,559
Speaker 1: Can the FBI ultimately pierce that And when they do

1583
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:26,840
Speaker 1: pierce it and they find somebody sitting there at internet

1584
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:29,880
Speaker 1: cafe with the disguise on, then what did they do? Brian?

1585
01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:33,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, in that example you just gave, that

1586
01:38:33,280 --> 01:38:35,840
Speaker 6: would probably be the safest way but at least they

1587
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:39,040
Speaker 6: now know, you know, hey, this person was in this

1588
01:38:39,240 --> 01:38:41,479
Speaker 6: area and that's where they're going to start to zero

1589
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:44,679
Speaker 6: in detecting cell phone patterns.

1590
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 4: Was that cell phone near Nancy Guthrie's house?

1591
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:49,519
Speaker 2: You know?

1592
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:52,760
Speaker 6: Now they can start to connect the dots further to

1593
01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:54,800
Speaker 6: try to narrow down who it was, whether they were

1594
01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:55,760
Speaker 6: in the disguise or not.

1595
01:38:56,000 --> 01:39:03,920
Speaker 1: You know, I'm wondering about also counts, pill counts. We

1596
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:07,760
Speaker 1: know that she cannot survive without her meds. What about it,

1597
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:12,599
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany Marshall. If the perp knew which way her

1598
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:16,679
Speaker 1: nest cams were pointed in order to avoid them new

1599
01:39:17,120 --> 01:39:22,599
Speaker 1: to disable the one on the door managed to escape

1600
01:39:22,680 --> 01:39:28,600
Speaker 1: being caught on camera. Sent this by private network to

1601
01:39:28,720 --> 01:39:33,600
Speaker 1: protect their identity through layers and layers and filters and filters.

1602
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:38,160
Speaker 1: The ransom note. Would they know enough to take her

1603
01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:39,719
Speaker 1: pills to keep her alive?

1604
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:41,880
Speaker 8: Pills meds were there?

1605
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:44,679
Speaker 1: But how many meds? How many pills?

1606
01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:52,360
Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, if you really want to get money

1607
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:55,599
Speaker 7: for kidnapping, you want a ransom, right, you want to

1608
01:39:55,760 --> 01:40:01,920
Speaker 7: keep the kidnapped person alive. But I think that in

1609
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:04,920
Speaker 7: a case like this with an elderly person I don't

1610
01:40:04,960 --> 01:40:06,160
Speaker 7: know that they're thinking.

1611
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:06,879
Speaker 1: That far ahead.

1612
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:10,760
Speaker 7: I mean, there's some kind of desperation that drives.

1613
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:11,240
Speaker 12: A move like this.

1614
01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 7: I'm thinking about the motivations for a kidnap. You want money,

1615
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 7: right you. Maybe you're envious. Maybe you hate Savannah Guthrie

1616
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:23,880
Speaker 7: because she has an incredible career. Maybe like Brian Koberger,

1617
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:24,400
Speaker 7: you are going.

1618
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: To just stop, stop, stop place place. I'm not writing

1619
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 1: a fifth grade girl's novel. Oh, she hates Savannah, so

1620
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:37,439
Speaker 1: she creates a huge plot to cross the country to

1621
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:40,400
Speaker 1: Tuson out in the desert and steal her mother. No

1622
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 1: on all this business. Oh, it's because Savannah was going

1623
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:46,719
Speaker 1: to cover Epstein in an unaired segment.

1624
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:50,280
Speaker 7: No, I think it's something a little different, Nancy.

1625
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:54,400
Speaker 1: I think if any connection to Savannah, it's this, they

1626
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:59,040
Speaker 1: want money. S Havanna has money, exactly. Mean, that's very simple.

1627
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:02,559
Speaker 7: Now, that's the connective line. I see too.

1628
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:03,639
Speaker 1: Money.

1629
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:08,760
Speaker 7: People when they see money, they want it. And that's

1630
01:41:08,800 --> 01:41:13,400
Speaker 7: why I was wondering earlier about caregivers, gardeners, anybody in

1631
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:17,759
Speaker 7: her life, even church members who knew that that Nancy

1632
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 7: was connected to somebody wealthy and famous and wanting to

1633
01:41:22,439 --> 01:41:26,599
Speaker 7: target that person for their money is you know, Nancy.

1634
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:29,720
Speaker 7: Even like when there's an elderly person who dies in

1635
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:35,599
Speaker 7: a family, often the surviving sibling group falls apart because

1636
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:40,519
Speaker 7: somebody in that sibling group wants the money. Money is

1637
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:45,400
Speaker 7: such a driver behind crime. So who in Nancy's life

1638
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:50,040
Speaker 7: knew about the wealth that her daughter had and who

1639
01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:51,320
Speaker 7: might have wanted that wealth?

1640
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy guys. Another issue that has now

1641
01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:10,559
Speaker 1: been made public by law enforcement MENI media had already

1642
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:14,800
Speaker 1: heard it and did not report it, including us, was

1643
01:42:14,840 --> 01:42:23,120
Speaker 1: that her pacemaker disconnected. It disconnected around two twenty eight. Now,

1644
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:28,160
Speaker 1: that again does not mean that she died and her

1645
01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:32,880
Speaker 1: pacemaker quit working. It means that more likely that she

1646
01:42:33,040 --> 01:42:35,600
Speaker 1: was out of range from her phone, which we know

1647
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:40,160
Speaker 1: was left behind. What did he say, Dave Matt.

1648
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:44,240
Speaker 5: What did you glean that the pacemaker disconnecting from the phone.

1649
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:47,599
Speaker 5: You know it's connected via bluetooth, which means you've got

1650
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:51,479
Speaker 5: a twenty foot range. It doesn't mean that she was

1651
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:55,000
Speaker 5: that she passed away. It doesn't mean anything other than

1652
01:42:55,280 --> 01:42:58,320
Speaker 5: her phone was there on the nightstand and she was

1653
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:02,320
Speaker 5: no longer within twenty feet of that phone. So that's

1654
01:43:02,360 --> 01:43:05,160
Speaker 5: pretty much where they're leaving that particular comment. I'm talking

1655
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:08,000
Speaker 5: about law enforcement talking about the pacemaker and what it

1656
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:11,400
Speaker 5: means by disconnecting doesn't mean she's you know, that she

1657
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:14,400
Speaker 5: fell out doesn't mean that she It just means that

1658
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:16,120
Speaker 5: she was no longer within twenty feet.

1659
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:20,839
Speaker 1: Two Rayvis Gibbons joining us from USPA Nationwide Security. Earlier,

1660
01:43:21,080 --> 01:43:25,240
Speaker 1: one of our experts, Christmas Dunner, noted that when law

1661
01:43:25,320 --> 01:43:30,400
Speaker 1: enforcement left sister Annie's house, they had a looked like

1662
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:34,519
Speaker 1: a wooden but a box with them. He says that

1663
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:37,280
Speaker 1: that is a you fed you the letter you as

1664
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:42,759
Speaker 1: in Utah fed as em FedEx, which is a tool

1665
01:43:43,240 --> 01:43:51,240
Speaker 1: implementing Celebrate. Celebrate analyzes and can download very quickly all

1666
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:56,599
Speaker 1: digital data from a location. We saw a very in

1667
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:59,680
Speaker 1: depth explanation of Celebrate on the witness stand from the

1668
01:43:59,680 --> 01:44:02,280
Speaker 1: Secret Service in the Alex Murdon case. That's when many

1669
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:06,240
Speaker 1: people first found out about it. Explain if mcgunn is

1670
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:09,320
Speaker 1: right what they did in Annie's home.

1671
01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:13,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, so this this celebrate you fed case that the

1672
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:17,280
Speaker 6: images were shared on social media. What that what that's

1673
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:21,559
Speaker 6: able to do is a complete extraction of all mobile

1674
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:28,200
Speaker 6: phone data, contacts, SMS, messages, pictures, videos, call logs, audio files.

1675
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:32,120
Speaker 6: It's going to do a full memory dump of that

1676
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:39,000
Speaker 6: phone system, providing you know, even old files that were deleted, passwords,

1677
01:44:39,040 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 6: et cetera. So it's gonna that that kit is a

1678
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:47,120
Speaker 6: mobile kit that is assigned to that team that they

1679
01:44:47,200 --> 01:44:52,000
Speaker 6: brought there. You know, we can draw some conclusions from that.

1680
01:44:52,479 --> 01:44:54,960
Speaker 6: You know, are they just excluding family members? They want

1681
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:58,640
Speaker 6: to get an image of those phones in that process,

1682
01:44:58,800 --> 01:44:59,800
Speaker 6: that's the most likely.

1683
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:03,120
Speaker 1: Okay, Brian, one more time and slowly. What does the

1684
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:05,639
Speaker 1: you fed do? Very slowly? How does it work?

1685
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 6: So the you fed is going to be able to

1686
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:15,240
Speaker 6: connect to any mobile device and provide a complete extraction. Basically,

1687
01:45:15,240 --> 01:45:20,759
Speaker 6: they're going to get contacts, SMS, messages, photos, videos, call logs,

1688
01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:26,800
Speaker 6: any audio files, all the IMEI data, anything that's on

1689
01:45:26,880 --> 01:45:31,240
Speaker 6: that simcard will be imaged by that you fed device.

1690
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:35,200
Speaker 1: And it gets it immediately. Then it's got to be analyzed.

1691
01:45:35,439 --> 01:45:38,479
Speaker 1: And I'd like to point out to everyone, all you

1692
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:42,479
Speaker 1: legal legals already know this. The first place law enforcement

1693
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:46,680
Speaker 1: looks is at those closest to the victim. So of

1694
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,519
Speaker 1: course they're looking at the family. So first thing you

1695
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:54,280
Speaker 1: do is rule them out. Then you move out to

1696
01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:59,040
Speaker 1: people that worked with Nancy Guthrie, people that cut her

1697
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:05,240
Speaker 1: grassle that trees, people that delivered mail, FedEx guys ups,

1698
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:08,840
Speaker 1: the gun, people next door, the people in the neighborhood,

1699
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:12,000
Speaker 1: the people at the grocery store, the people at the church,

1700
01:46:12,680 --> 01:46:16,000
Speaker 1: the granny nannies if there are any, and the granny

1701
01:46:16,080 --> 01:46:19,360
Speaker 1: nanny sons and the granny nanny husbands, and it goes

1702
01:46:19,439 --> 01:46:24,280
Speaker 1: out and out until you catch the person. Now, this person,

1703
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:28,479
Speaker 1: I'm telling you and guys jump in, is somebody local,

1704
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:32,160
Speaker 1: because why would they have sent the ransom notes to

1705
01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:38,639
Speaker 1: Kold and TMZ possibly k Gun k g u N

1706
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:43,679
Speaker 1: because they're local. How would they know where she lived

1707
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:47,840
Speaker 1: out literally in the middle of the desert and this

1708
01:46:48,040 --> 01:46:53,280
Speaker 1: desert enclave. How would they know about the granny cams

1709
01:46:53,800 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 1: and the nest cam were they watching to see when

1710
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:03,200
Speaker 1: she was brought home when that garage door closed. All

1711
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:07,160
Speaker 1: of this suggests someone that knows her or the family

1712
01:47:08,120 --> 01:47:14,200
Speaker 1: fairly well or can access that information. Also, yesterday we

1713
01:47:14,240 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 1: saw La come back to the scene and go back

1714
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:22,519
Speaker 1: and forth to the garage with canines. Now we know

1715
01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:26,200
Speaker 1: part of the timeline is the up and down of

1716
01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:32,240
Speaker 1: the garage door. Put all this together, Brian Fitzgibbons, What

1717
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:32,880
Speaker 1: do you think?

1718
01:47:33,880 --> 01:47:35,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, so with the up and down in the garage

1719
01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:38,439
Speaker 6: door in the timeline, you know, they're certainly going to

1720
01:47:38,520 --> 01:47:42,519
Speaker 6: find out, you know, is that a normal minute and

1721
01:47:42,520 --> 01:47:45,719
Speaker 6: a half two minute gap from when Nancy's in and out.

1722
01:47:45,560 --> 01:47:45,960
Speaker 4: Of the house.

1723
01:47:46,280 --> 01:47:48,280
Speaker 6: If they have that data, they're going to be able

1724
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:51,559
Speaker 6: to get past data as well to verify that nothing

1725
01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:55,320
Speaker 6: jumps off the page to me. There. What I think

1726
01:47:55,600 --> 01:48:02,040
Speaker 6: is really really a big question about this timeline is

1727
01:48:02,080 --> 01:48:05,000
Speaker 6: with relation to the doorbell camera, there's a twenty five

1728
01:48:05,080 --> 01:48:09,439
Speaker 6: minute gap from when that camera was disconnected to when

1729
01:48:09,479 --> 01:48:13,320
Speaker 6: that person is registered. The software detects a person, right,

1730
01:48:13,640 --> 01:48:18,000
Speaker 6: what happened within that twenty five minutes? And how was

1731
01:48:18,120 --> 01:48:21,120
Speaker 6: nothing captured by these other cameras inside the house?

1732
01:48:21,560 --> 01:48:24,040
Speaker 4: You know, those are the main That's the big question.

1733
01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:27,960
Speaker 1: I'm curious, Hey, do you see the two twelve am guys?

1734
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 1: Software detects person on camera? Is that the door cam

1735
01:48:33,200 --> 01:48:37,320
Speaker 1: or is that the inside cam? Where a person is

1736
01:48:37,360 --> 01:48:40,120
Speaker 1: detected on camera? What about it? Dave Matt Because we

1737
01:48:40,240 --> 01:48:44,439
Speaker 1: know she had a spike and her pacemaker at two

1738
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:45,720
Speaker 1: am exactly, so.

1739
01:48:45,960 --> 01:48:49,240
Speaker 5: We know there's something going on in that house regardless

1740
01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:51,960
Speaker 5: of what law enforcement is willing to say. At this point,

1741
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:58,000
Speaker 5: you mentioned that a person it appears on camera, our

1742
01:48:58,120 --> 01:49:01,679
Speaker 5: motion is detected of a person. It's not a big

1743
01:49:01,800 --> 01:49:05,360
Speaker 5: leap to think we've got action taking place in and

1744
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:12,880
Speaker 5: around the home and Nancy Guthrie becoming intensely aggravated moving

1745
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:16,880
Speaker 5: somewhere that her pacemaker reacts to that. We've got this

1746
01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:22,519
Speaker 5: very very tight window here of activity that one can

1747
01:49:22,600 --> 01:49:26,040
Speaker 5: only look at the facts in front of you and say, well,

1748
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:29,280
Speaker 5: that's when she had to something happened to Nancy Guthrie,

1749
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:33,080
Speaker 5: mean the time of twenty eight, Well.

1750
01:49:33,080 --> 01:49:37,240
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this. The door cam disconnects one

1751
01:49:37,680 --> 01:49:40,679
Speaker 1: at two twelve, a person is to take that on camera.

1752
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:45,679
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, at two am there is entry missing.

1753
01:49:46,080 --> 01:49:50,960
Speaker 1: At two am we get a spike on her pacemaker.

1754
01:49:51,680 --> 01:49:58,439
Speaker 1: Does that mean the door cam disconnects. They're in the

1755
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:03,479
Speaker 1: home at two am, waking her up, rousting her out

1756
01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:08,400
Speaker 1: of bed or off the sofa. To twelve am to

1757
01:50:08,520 --> 01:50:12,559
Speaker 1: software disconnect a person, the software to take a person

1758
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:18,800
Speaker 1: outside or movement inside, taking her out of her bedroom

1759
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:26,040
Speaker 1: two twenty eight, she's out of range. So what do

1760
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:29,880
Speaker 1: you believe, Dave mac that two am spike on her

1761
01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:32,000
Speaker 1: pacemaker indicates.

1762
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:35,000
Speaker 5: I believe that, tied together with the one forty seven

1763
01:50:35,080 --> 01:50:39,320
Speaker 5: am indicator, that she was rousted out of bed, and

1764
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:42,639
Speaker 5: I believe it was probably very physical to get her

1765
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:44,880
Speaker 5: out of bed. You know, this is not a person

1766
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:48,760
Speaker 5: who moves around easily. Somebody inside the home is going

1767
01:50:48,840 --> 01:50:50,799
Speaker 5: to want to get in and out of there quickly.

1768
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:52,720
Speaker 5: They're not going to be gentle, They're not going to

1769
01:50:52,760 --> 01:50:54,880
Speaker 5: wake her up with some music. They're going to wake

1770
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:57,639
Speaker 5: her up to a point where she is going going

1771
01:50:57,680 --> 01:51:01,439
Speaker 5: to react instead of shock, panic, in fear. So that

1772
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:03,200
Speaker 5: would make a sense. That makes sense for me at

1773
01:51:03,439 --> 01:51:07,800
Speaker 5: two am, having that spike thirteen minutes after we get

1774
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:10,760
Speaker 5: the indicator, and again when you look at what else

1775
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:13,760
Speaker 5: is coming up, it just shows you that some kind

1776
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:16,559
Speaker 5: of chaos is taking place and she has reacted to it,

1777
01:51:16,600 --> 01:51:19,360
Speaker 5: and we know that we have her blood going out

1778
01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:22,240
Speaker 5: of the home. Between the time that we get that

1779
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:25,160
Speaker 5: first indicator of one forty seven, the two AM spike

1780
01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:29,479
Speaker 5: and then two twenty eight, Nancy, it tells you a lot.

1781
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:32,840
Speaker 1: It was over so quickly, her being taken from the home.

1782
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:37,120
Speaker 1: What do you make of the two am spike as

1783
01:51:37,120 --> 01:51:38,280
Speaker 1: it fits into the timeline.

1784
01:51:38,280 --> 01:51:41,320
Speaker 7: Doctor Bethany, Well, I agree with Dave mac I think

1785
01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:43,960
Speaker 7: that somebody tried to get her out of bed, somebody

1786
01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:48,240
Speaker 7: who was unfamiliar to her. So you have the inner circle,

1787
01:51:48,360 --> 01:51:53,160
Speaker 7: you have her adult children, you have maybe the church members,

1788
01:51:53,280 --> 01:51:56,840
Speaker 7: you have people who know her intimately, and then you

1789
01:51:56,960 --> 01:52:02,120
Speaker 7: have the next outer ring of people who know her intimates.

1790
01:52:02,200 --> 01:52:05,280
Speaker 7: Maybe it's the spouse of the gardener. Maybe it's the

1791
01:52:06,280 --> 01:52:09,519
Speaker 7: a caregiver or a nurse who comes in and gives

1792
01:52:09,600 --> 01:52:13,240
Speaker 7: gives administers medication, and that she goes home and talks

1793
01:52:13,240 --> 01:52:15,439
Speaker 7: to her adult children or something like that. You have

1794
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:18,320
Speaker 7: an out of a circle, somebody who's she's not that

1795
01:52:18,479 --> 01:52:22,320
Speaker 7: familiar with, who tries to get her out of bed,

1796
01:52:22,840 --> 01:52:25,360
Speaker 7: and that's where you see that spike. So so Nancy,

1797
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:28,200
Speaker 7: I'm going to go back to this idea that elderly

1798
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:33,959
Speaker 7: people are their targets, right, They're very vulnerable, and especially

1799
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 7: when there's wealth and she has a beautiful home. I've

1800
01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:40,160
Speaker 7: seen that neighborhood. All these lots are one to four acres.

1801
01:52:40,479 --> 01:52:44,360
Speaker 7: Anybody who goes through that neighborhood knows that Nancy, that

1802
01:52:44,479 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 7: Nancy has money, right, and so they're enticed by the

1803
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:51,799
Speaker 7: stories of the people on the in the inner circle,

1804
01:52:52,240 --> 01:52:56,320
Speaker 7: and they're thinking about how can I utilize Nancy to

1805
01:52:56,479 --> 01:53:00,200
Speaker 7: get some financial gain. And so when you go back

1806
01:53:00,240 --> 01:53:02,920
Speaker 7: to the spike, somebody's getting her out of bed who

1807
01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:05,840
Speaker 7: maybe is tangentially related to her, but is not a

1808
01:53:05,880 --> 01:53:08,040
Speaker 7: primary person in her life.

1809
01:53:08,200 --> 01:53:11,400
Speaker 1: Guys are seeing a segment on the Today Show Savannah

1810
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:14,960
Speaker 1: and her Mom that was taken off YouTube. It was

1811
01:53:15,040 --> 01:53:19,920
Speaker 1: an Arizona homecoming where Savannah went back home. There's a

1812
01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:24,879
Speaker 1: lot of speculation that whoever plotted this saw this segment

1813
01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:30,000
Speaker 1: and became aware of Nancy Guthrie. I don't necessarily believe that,

1814
01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:35,880
Speaker 1: because I believe the is local anyway, that is from YouTube.

1815
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:38,760
Speaker 1: And to you, Fitzgibbons, where do you what do you

1816
01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:40,600
Speaker 1: think the two am spike indicates?

1817
01:53:41,000 --> 01:53:45,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm in agreement with doctor Bethany and Dave that

1818
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:49,280
Speaker 6: you know what we're seeing is is likely the perpetrator

1819
01:53:49,360 --> 01:53:54,720
Speaker 6: removed that had already gained access to the residents by

1820
01:53:54,760 --> 01:53:58,559
Speaker 6: one seven. And I think an important note here that

1821
01:53:58,600 --> 01:54:04,120
Speaker 6: we haven't talked about to conduct an operation like this

1822
01:54:04,280 --> 01:54:07,479
Speaker 6: to abduct someone, it's going to take two people, right,

1823
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:11,240
Speaker 6: There's very likely not one person doing this. To pull

1824
01:54:11,280 --> 01:54:13,400
Speaker 6: her out of the house, put her in a vehicle

1825
01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:16,200
Speaker 6: and drive her away. All right, So you know, I

1826
01:54:16,200 --> 01:54:18,680
Speaker 6: think what you see on the timeline is, hey, take

1827
01:54:18,720 --> 01:54:19,519
Speaker 6: the camera off.

1828
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:21,679
Speaker 4: Persons now in the house.

1829
01:54:21,800 --> 01:54:27,160
Speaker 6: Two am is probably when they made first contact with Nancy,

1830
01:54:28,240 --> 01:54:30,400
Speaker 6: and I believe that the data bears that out.

1831
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:33,080
Speaker 1: And in the middle of all this trying to finance

1832
01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:39,720
Speaker 1: he gether and bring her home alive, an impostor ransomer emerges.

1833
01:54:40,280 --> 01:54:41,480
Speaker 1: What happened to mac.

1834
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:44,440
Speaker 5: Had the first hint that there was a ransom note

1835
01:54:44,480 --> 01:54:47,360
Speaker 5: when TMZ went live before they went to police with

1836
01:54:47,400 --> 01:54:51,400
Speaker 5: the note. We have this ransom note appearing at Kold

1837
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:55,720
Speaker 5: and kgU In in Tucson, so it's public knowledge that

1838
01:54:55,840 --> 01:55:01,320
Speaker 5: ransom notes have occurred. However, the FBI investigat another ransom

1839
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:04,200
Speaker 5: note that comes in now. This is one we don't

1840
01:55:04,240 --> 01:55:06,960
Speaker 5: know much about. But what we do know is that

1841
01:55:07,040 --> 01:55:10,520
Speaker 5: the FBI made an arrest today and it was of

1842
01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:14,360
Speaker 5: a ransom hoax. It was not similar to the other

1843
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:18,480
Speaker 5: ransom notes that had been supported at this point. Suspected

1844
01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:20,440
Speaker 5: it was a hoax and they were able to arrest

1845
01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:24,240
Speaker 5: that individual. Trying to take advantage of the worst possible

1846
01:55:24,280 --> 01:55:26,760
Speaker 5: thing for a family to go through right now. So

1847
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:29,560
Speaker 5: he's already been arrest He or she has already been arrested.

1848
01:55:29,600 --> 01:55:31,600
Speaker 5: We haven't got a name or anything else, but we'll

1849
01:55:31,600 --> 01:55:32,200
Speaker 5: find that out.

1850
01:55:32,480 --> 01:55:33,720
Speaker 1: Dave Matt, you have a concern.

1851
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:36,760
Speaker 5: I'm really concerned that the home was treated as a

1852
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:40,760
Speaker 5: crime scene very early on. They being law enforcement, did

1853
01:55:40,800 --> 01:55:43,160
Speaker 5: all the work they wanted to do and release the

1854
01:55:43,200 --> 01:55:47,120
Speaker 5: home back to the family. But then yesterday afternoon we

1855
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:49,880
Speaker 5: get word that they've got yellow tape up and they

1856
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:54,200
Speaker 5: have blocked everything thing off and law enforcement. They've got FBI,

1857
01:55:54,200 --> 01:55:57,840
Speaker 5: they've got guys in tacticle gear and canine units are

1858
01:55:57,880 --> 01:56:01,120
Speaker 5: out at the site again, and it's an explosion of

1859
01:56:01,160 --> 01:56:04,880
Speaker 5: activity after the place. The home has already been released

1860
01:56:04,920 --> 01:56:08,080
Speaker 5: back to the family. That bothers me immensely because I

1861
01:56:08,080 --> 01:56:11,280
Speaker 5: wonder what did they miss the first time, and why

1862
01:56:11,440 --> 01:56:14,000
Speaker 5: is it all of a sudden becoming a big issue again.

1863
01:56:14,240 --> 01:56:17,720
Speaker 1: Well, obviously, and chime in, fitz Gibbons, if you disagree.

1864
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:20,760
Speaker 1: They should never have released the crime scene. The crime

1865
01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:23,760
Speaker 1: scene should not be opened now, it should be locked down.

1866
01:56:24,320 --> 01:56:27,040
Speaker 1: Everybody and their sister can go over there and poke around.

1867
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:32,000
Speaker 1: Why has it been released? I think it's a horrible idea.

1868
01:56:32,360 --> 01:56:34,760
Speaker 1: What about it? And that opens up clients from an

1869
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:38,520
Speaker 1: ultimate defense team that someone else came in and tampered

1870
01:56:38,520 --> 01:56:40,840
Speaker 1: with the scene and planet evidence. That's where that goes.

1871
01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:41,280
Speaker 8: Brian.

1872
01:56:41,560 --> 01:56:45,280
Speaker 6: I couldn't agree more that scene should have been held

1873
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:49,840
Speaker 6: and not released to the family. That scene should still

1874
01:56:49,880 --> 01:56:53,600
Speaker 6: be held, and Sheriff Chris Nato has said as much

1875
01:56:54,200 --> 01:56:57,040
Speaker 6: today in the press conference that that was a mistake.

1876
01:56:58,240 --> 01:57:02,280
Speaker 6: What he tried to explained it away with is that

1877
01:57:02,360 --> 01:57:04,880
Speaker 6: the FBI joined the case and they wanted to get

1878
01:57:04,880 --> 01:57:07,680
Speaker 6: a fresh look at the crime scene themselves, which is

1879
01:57:07,680 --> 01:57:08,760
Speaker 6: certainly a natural thing.

1880
01:57:09,840 --> 01:57:11,280
Speaker 4: You know, that was a mistake.

1881
01:57:11,320 --> 01:57:15,480
Speaker 6: It's a Monday morning quarterback, as he said, But they

1882
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:16,240
Speaker 6: definitely should have.

1883
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:17,000
Speaker 4: Held that scene.

1884
01:57:17,240 --> 01:57:20,040
Speaker 1: Did you pick up on what Savannah was saying, Oh, guys,

1885
01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:22,520
Speaker 1: that video was for our friends at twelve News. Did

1886
01:57:22,560 --> 01:57:26,000
Speaker 1: you pick up on what Savannah was saying about AI

1887
01:57:27,400 --> 01:57:33,280
Speaker 1: artificial images artificial intelligence being used to create a photo

1888
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:37,320
Speaker 1: or video of Nancy Guthrie. Does that indicate to you

1889
01:57:37,880 --> 01:57:41,400
Speaker 1: that the ransom notes had some sort of an image

1890
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:43,680
Speaker 1: on them, Brian, that was.

1891
01:57:43,640 --> 01:57:46,840
Speaker 6: The very first thought that came to my mind when

1892
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:49,720
Speaker 6: I heard that comment, is that there must have been

1893
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:55,200
Speaker 6: some kind of image or video included in that ransom note,

1894
01:57:55,320 --> 01:57:59,680
Speaker 6: and what Savannah was expressing is, hey.

1895
01:57:59,560 --> 01:58:00,360
Speaker 4: We need more.

1896
01:58:00,760 --> 01:58:03,400
Speaker 6: We need real proof of life, which in today's day

1897
01:58:03,400 --> 01:58:06,560
Speaker 6: and age with AI and the ability for deep fakes,

1898
01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:09,440
Speaker 6: is going to have to be closely coordinated with the

1899
01:58:09,480 --> 01:58:13,720
Speaker 6: FBI to have some kind of two way live video call,

1900
01:58:13,840 --> 01:58:17,440
Speaker 6: maybe on an encrypted channel that the FBI creates.

1901
01:58:17,840 --> 01:58:23,480
Speaker 1: Speaking of Savannah's plea to the kidnapper.

1902
01:58:23,200 --> 01:58:27,200
Speaker 9: On behalf of our family, we want to thank all

1903
01:58:27,240 --> 01:58:31,520
Speaker 9: of you for the prayers for our beloved mom Fancy.

1904
01:58:32,880 --> 01:58:37,360
Speaker 9: We feel them, and we continue to believe that she

1905
01:58:37,520 --> 01:58:46,000
Speaker 9: feels them too. Our mom is a kind, faithful, loyal,

1906
01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:54,080
Speaker 9: fiercely loving woman of goodness and liked. She's funny, spunky,

1907
01:58:54,680 --> 01:59:00,480
Speaker 9: and clever. She has grandchildren that adore her and crowd

1908
01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:04,520
Speaker 9: around her and cover her with kisses. She loves fun

1909
01:59:05,200 --> 01:59:10,720
Speaker 9: and adventure. She is a devoted friend. She is full

1910
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:12,480
Speaker 9: of kindness and knowledge.

1911
01:59:13,480 --> 01:59:14,879
Speaker 16: Talk to her and you'll.

1912
01:59:14,680 --> 01:59:19,640
Speaker 17: See the light is missing from our lives.

1913
01:59:22,320 --> 01:59:26,320
Speaker 16: Nancy is our mother. We are her children.

1914
01:59:27,800 --> 01:59:28,839
Speaker 12: She is our beacon.

1915
01:59:30,760 --> 01:59:36,400
Speaker 9: She holds fast to joy in all of life's circumstances.

1916
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:41,800
Speaker 16: She chooses joy day after day, despite.

1917
01:59:41,360 --> 01:59:46,040
Speaker 9: Having already passed through great trials of pain and grief,

1918
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:53,120
Speaker 9: we are always going to be merely human, just normal

1919
01:59:53,240 --> 01:59:58,160
Speaker 9: human people who need our mom.

1920
01:59:58,200 --> 02:00:05,720
Speaker 16: Mama, Mama, if you're listening, we need you to come home.

1921
02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:07,600
Speaker 16: We missed you.

1922
02:00:13,200 --> 02:00:18,120
Speaker 9: Our mom is our heart and our home. She is

1923
02:00:18,240 --> 02:00:22,959
Speaker 9: eighty four years old. Her health, her heart is fragile.

1924
02:00:24,360 --> 02:00:29,400
Speaker 9: She lives in constant pain. She is without any medicine.

1925
02:00:29,920 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 9: She needs it to survive, she needs it not to suffer.

1926
02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:38,440
Speaker 16: We two have.

1927
02:00:38,520 --> 02:00:42,240
Speaker 9: Heard the reports about a ransom letter in the media.

1928
02:00:42,920 --> 02:00:47,040
Speaker 9: As a family, we are doing everything that we can.

1929
02:00:48,920 --> 02:00:55,560
Speaker 9: We are ready to talk. However, we live in a

1930
02:00:55,600 --> 02:01:02,800
Speaker 9: world where voices and images are easily manipulated. We need

1931
02:01:02,840 --> 02:01:08,640
Speaker 9: to know without a doubt that she is alive and

1932
02:01:08,680 --> 02:01:10,560
Speaker 9: that you have her.

1933
02:01:11,280 --> 02:01:14,120
Speaker 16: We want to hear from you, and we are ready

1934
02:01:14,160 --> 02:01:14,680
Speaker 16: to listen.

1935
02:01:16,080 --> 02:01:25,040
Speaker 9: Please reach out to us, Mommy, if.

1936
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:28,560
Speaker 16: You are hearing this, you are a strong woman.

1937
02:01:29,960 --> 02:01:36,760
Speaker 9: You are God's precious daughter, Nancy. We believe and know

1938
02:01:37,520 --> 02:01:41,160
Speaker 9: that even in this valley, he is with you.

1939
02:01:42,880 --> 02:01:45,920
Speaker 16: Everyone is looking for you, Mommy, everywhere.

1940
02:01:48,120 --> 02:01:52,800
Speaker 9: We will not rest, Your children will not rest until

1941
02:01:52,840 --> 02:01:58,240
Speaker 9: we are together again. We speak to you every moment,

1942
02:01:59,040 --> 02:02:03,800
Speaker 9: and we pray without ceasing, and we rejoice in advance

1943
02:02:04,160 --> 02:02:08,680
Speaker 9: for the day that we hold you in our arms again.

1944
02:02:09,280 --> 02:02:09,720
Speaker 1: We love you.

1945
02:02:11,560 --> 02:02:15,240
Speaker 16: We love you, Mom, stay strong. We love.

1946
02:02:26,920 --> 02:02:28,600
Speaker 8: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

1947
02:02:33,080 --> 02:02:35,440
Speaker 15: So the raster note that was distributed to the media

1948
02:02:36,200 --> 02:02:39,240
Speaker 15: did make a demand for five pm today and if

1949
02:02:40,240 --> 02:02:42,560
Speaker 15: a transfer wasn't made then I think a second demand

1950
02:02:42,640 --> 02:02:45,800
Speaker 15: was for next Monday. We're not going to go beyond

1951
02:02:46,000 --> 02:02:48,200
Speaker 15: that without what's the rastom note.

1952
02:02:48,280 --> 02:02:51,800
Speaker 1: The media received the suggestion that time is up for

1953
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:59,760
Speaker 1: Savannah Gufrie's mother, but the PERP issued another ultimatum another

1954
02:02:59,840 --> 02:03:06,440
Speaker 1: day deadline coming up in two days. Breaking news Savannah Guthries'

1955
02:03:06,560 --> 02:03:10,400
Speaker 1: mother missing day six. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This

1956
02:03:10,480 --> 02:03:12,200
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories and I want to thank you for

1957
02:03:12,240 --> 02:03:15,520
Speaker 1: being with us, with me an all star panel, each

1958
02:03:15,600 --> 02:03:19,000
Speaker 1: one and expert in their own right, straight out to

1959
02:03:19,000 --> 02:03:24,240
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave Mac heart breaking

1960
02:03:24,640 --> 02:03:29,680
Speaker 1: watching Cameron Guthries plea this on the heels of sister Savannah.

1961
02:03:29,800 --> 02:03:31,800
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, for those of you that

1962
02:03:31,880 --> 02:03:37,840
Speaker 1: have only seen our friends, Savannah Guthries agonizing plea for

1963
02:03:37,920 --> 02:03:40,400
Speaker 1: her mother to be brought home I want you to

1964
02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:46,960
Speaker 1: hear Cameron Guthries plea for his mother to be brought home.

1965
02:03:47,320 --> 02:03:50,760
Speaker 18: Listen, this is Cameron Guthrie. I'm speaking for the Guthrie family.

1966
02:03:51,080 --> 02:03:54,040
Speaker 18: Whoever is out there holding our mother. We want to

1967
02:03:54,080 --> 02:03:57,680
Speaker 18: hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need

1968
02:03:57,720 --> 02:03:59,600
Speaker 18: you to reach out and we need a way to

1969
02:03:59,600 --> 02:04:02,720
Speaker 18: commune with you so we can move forward. But first

1970
02:04:02,800 --> 02:04:05,240
Speaker 18: we have to know that you have our mom. We

1971
02:04:05,280 --> 02:04:07,760
Speaker 18: want to talk to you and we are waiting for contact.

1972
02:04:07,880 --> 02:04:10,400
Speaker 1: Are they going to have to go old school to

1973
02:04:10,560 --> 02:04:15,760
Speaker 1: find Nancy Guthrie. I'm talking about dogs, drones looking at

1974
02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:18,560
Speaker 1: the area. How far could she have gotten? Are there

1975
02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:24,200
Speaker 1: two or more people involved this? As many speculate the

1976
02:04:24,280 --> 02:04:28,800
Speaker 1: purp is within or close to the family. But I

1977
02:04:28,920 --> 02:04:30,960
Speaker 1: just want to tell you. Let me go straight out

1978
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:35,040
Speaker 1: to you, Dave Mac. I find it very very hard

1979
02:04:35,040 --> 02:04:37,880
Speaker 1: to believe. Let's see a shot of Savannah with sister

1980
02:04:38,040 --> 02:04:41,440
Speaker 1: Annie and brother Cameron as they were making that plea.

1981
02:04:42,440 --> 02:04:47,360
Speaker 1: I find it very difficult to believe, Dave Mac, that

1982
02:04:47,560 --> 02:04:51,000
Speaker 1: the brother and the sister and Savannah could sit there

1983
02:04:51,280 --> 02:04:55,280
Speaker 1: begging for the return of their mother while secretly wondering

1984
02:04:55,480 --> 02:04:59,800
Speaker 1: heys cousin Larry, part of this, I mean, knowing something

1985
02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:04,240
Speaker 1: of that import I don't see it, Dave Mac. I mean,

1986
02:05:04,840 --> 02:05:09,400
Speaker 1: I know what the statistics say. I know the statistics

1987
02:05:09,440 --> 02:05:14,040
Speaker 1: say look to those closest to the victim. But just

1988
02:05:14,160 --> 02:05:18,400
Speaker 1: looking at the three siblings, I don't see it, Dave Mac.

1989
02:05:18,520 --> 02:05:20,040
Speaker 1: Or maybe is that I don't want to see it.

1990
02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:20,760
Speaker 4: Nancy.

1991
02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:23,919
Speaker 5: It looks to me like they don't consider it somebody

1992
02:05:23,960 --> 02:05:25,080
Speaker 5: that's very close to them.

1993
02:05:25,080 --> 02:05:26,440
Speaker 1: But Nancy, in.

1994
02:05:26,480 --> 02:05:30,400
Speaker 5: All probability, the person or persons involved in this had

1995
02:05:30,440 --> 02:05:34,440
Speaker 5: access to that house before. Now that leaves you with gardeners,

1996
02:05:34,920 --> 02:05:37,080
Speaker 5: people that come by to help out with things around

1997
02:05:37,080 --> 02:05:39,360
Speaker 5: the house. There are a lot of people that had

1998
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:42,120
Speaker 5: access to that house, and they would have been familiar

1999
02:05:42,160 --> 02:05:44,520
Speaker 5: with camera placement and things like that that you've mentioned

2000
02:05:44,560 --> 02:05:47,440
Speaker 5: before about the granny cams. So there are a lot

2001
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:51,440
Speaker 5: of people beyond that close family friend group that would

2002
02:05:51,480 --> 02:05:55,360
Speaker 5: have had access to that house. And maybe that's why

2003
02:05:55,520 --> 02:05:57,880
Speaker 5: you're seeing they just look devastated. To me, the whole

2004
02:05:57,880 --> 02:06:01,560
Speaker 5: family does. And all the communication is one way. It's

2005
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:04,520
Speaker 5: coming from the kidnappers to them. They have no way

2006
02:06:04,560 --> 02:06:08,120
Speaker 5: of contacting the kidnapper or kidnappers at this point, they've

2007
02:06:08,120 --> 02:06:10,840
Speaker 5: been given no communication way of reaching out. That's why

2008
02:06:10,960 --> 02:06:14,120
Speaker 5: Cameron said, we need to know you've got her. We

2009
02:06:14,160 --> 02:06:16,680
Speaker 5: need gay and we need you to reach out to

2010
02:06:16,760 --> 02:06:18,600
Speaker 5: us to tell us how to get up with you.

2011
02:06:19,080 --> 02:06:21,360
Speaker 5: They don't know who it is, but it could be

2012
02:06:21,440 --> 02:06:24,080
Speaker 5: somebody they've seen a lot, you know, Dave.

2013
02:06:23,960 --> 02:06:29,640
Speaker 1: Mac You're right again, a lot of speculation swirling about

2014
02:06:29,640 --> 02:06:32,600
Speaker 1: a family member somehow being involved. But when I look

2015
02:06:32,640 --> 02:06:35,920
Speaker 1: at those three, I just don't see it, or maybe

2016
02:06:36,400 --> 02:06:41,280
Speaker 1: I'm blind, but I'm rejecting that this as the theory

2017
02:06:41,600 --> 02:06:47,320
Speaker 1: has swirled of a really sinister plot to go into

2018
02:06:47,440 --> 02:06:51,360
Speaker 1: the home and remove the door cam, the front door cam.

2019
02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:53,200
Speaker 1: Let's see a shot of where the door cam would

2020
02:06:53,280 --> 02:06:57,080
Speaker 1: have been like coming in, for instance, through the back door,

2021
02:06:57,160 --> 02:07:00,800
Speaker 1: coming through, reaching out the front door and yankee that off,

2022
02:07:00,920 --> 02:07:05,520
Speaker 1: so you the perp are not pictured on the door cam.

2023
02:07:06,000 --> 02:07:09,080
Speaker 1: And then waiting because if you look at the timeline, now,

2024
02:07:09,160 --> 02:07:12,760
Speaker 1: let's see the timeline. Please, If you look at the timeline,

2025
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:16,200
Speaker 1: there's about a twenty minute gap. You've got her coming

2026
02:07:16,240 --> 02:07:20,800
Speaker 1: home from dinner in Majong with Annie and the son

2027
02:07:20,920 --> 02:07:24,240
Speaker 1: in law. Okay, Then the garage door closes and we

2028
02:07:24,320 --> 02:07:28,240
Speaker 1: assume she's entering through the kitchen door from her garage.

2029
02:07:28,920 --> 02:07:33,800
Speaker 1: Then look at it. The door cam disconnects on the

2030
02:07:33,880 --> 02:07:40,840
Speaker 1: front door. Then you've got about twenty minutes. Did they

2031
02:07:41,120 --> 02:07:44,800
Speaker 1: yank off the door cam and wait to see if

2032
02:07:44,840 --> 02:07:48,680
Speaker 1: police would arrive? Now, Dave Matt great me if I'm wrong, please,

2033
02:07:49,240 --> 02:07:54,200
Speaker 1: because these times are critical. Wasn't there a spike, a

2034
02:07:54,440 --> 02:08:01,320
Speaker 1: noticeable spike and her pacemaker, her heart monitor at two am?

2035
02:08:01,520 --> 02:08:05,360
Speaker 5: There was? There was a noticeable spike at two am,

2036
02:08:05,400 --> 02:08:08,680
Speaker 5: So you're talking about thirteen minutes after the camera is

2037
02:08:08,720 --> 02:08:12,840
Speaker 5: pulled down, and that thirteen minute window, you know, the

2038
02:08:12,840 --> 02:08:15,480
Speaker 5: first thing that happens when they're checking on somebody is

2039
02:08:15,560 --> 02:08:18,520
Speaker 5: the phone call are you okay? That's usually what happens

2040
02:08:18,560 --> 02:08:21,600
Speaker 5: with home security systems, and then if nothing there, then

2041
02:08:21,640 --> 02:08:25,240
Speaker 5: the police at two o'clock. We I believe anyway, that

2042
02:08:25,240 --> 02:08:29,640
Speaker 5: that's when the kidnapper or kidnappers were actually in her

2043
02:08:29,840 --> 02:08:32,960
Speaker 5: room and putting hands on her, getting her up out

2044
02:08:33,000 --> 02:08:33,280
Speaker 5: of bed.

2045
02:08:33,360 --> 02:08:38,320
Speaker 1: Straight out to Chris McDonough, our long time friend and colleague.

2046
02:08:38,360 --> 02:08:41,440
Speaker 1: He is the director at the Cold Case Foundation, former

2047
02:08:41,440 --> 02:08:49,000
Speaker 1: homicide detective with over three hundred bonafide homicides under his Belt,

2048
02:08:49,840 --> 02:08:53,120
Speaker 1: also host of the YouTube channel The Interview Room where

2049
02:08:53,160 --> 02:08:56,080
Speaker 1: I found him. Chris, thank you for being with us

2050
02:08:56,840 --> 02:09:00,320
Speaker 1: regarding this whole theory that the family is involved in

2051
02:09:00,440 --> 02:09:03,720
Speaker 1: some way, which I reject. I'm putting it out there.

2052
02:09:04,680 --> 02:09:04,800
Speaker 9: Uh.

2053
02:09:05,120 --> 02:09:10,760
Speaker 1: You and I have talked privately about you Fed. You Fed.

2054
02:09:10,880 --> 02:09:13,800
Speaker 1: It's a Celebrate system. It's mobile and it's carried in

2055
02:09:13,840 --> 02:09:18,480
Speaker 1: a box. Usually it looks like a you know, a

2056
02:09:18,560 --> 02:09:22,200
Speaker 1: messenger boy bag or a briefcase that you wear over

2057
02:09:22,240 --> 02:09:26,160
Speaker 1: your shoulder that was seen being carried out of the

2058
02:09:26,200 --> 02:09:30,840
Speaker 1: family home. Explain what the Celebrate you Fed does in

2059
02:09:30,880 --> 02:09:33,400
Speaker 1: a nutshell? Do go deafcom for on me? So?

2060
02:09:34,160 --> 02:09:37,000
Speaker 19: Well, there's a couple of things that it does. It's

2061
02:09:37,040 --> 02:09:40,840
Speaker 19: a mobile device that you can bring to a particular scene,

2062
02:09:40,840 --> 02:09:44,240
Speaker 19: in this case, the house, and then you're able to

2063
02:09:44,840 --> 02:09:47,920
Speaker 19: download any type of forensic evidence in the house from

2064
02:09:47,960 --> 02:09:52,200
Speaker 19: devices such as you know, computers or you know, phone,

2065
02:09:52,360 --> 02:09:56,760
Speaker 19: cell phones, et cetera. Uh, and then that information is

2066
02:09:56,800 --> 02:10:00,560
Speaker 19: immediately available through some software that Celebrate has to the

2067
02:10:00,600 --> 02:10:01,920
Speaker 19: investigators on the scene.

2068
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:06,520
Speaker 1: It can get deleted texts, emails, ims, it can get

2069
02:10:06,640 --> 02:10:10,280
Speaker 1: encrypted and it really came to the forefront of our

2070
02:10:10,760 --> 02:10:15,560
Speaker 1: national knowledge, our bubble of knowledge during the Alex Murdock

2071
02:10:15,640 --> 02:10:19,480
Speaker 1: trial when a secret Service witness took the stand to

2072
02:10:19,640 --> 02:10:23,800
Speaker 1: explain how it was used in that case and it worked.

2073
02:10:25,400 --> 02:10:30,160
Speaker 1: This is what I'm thinking. That witness that observed the

2074
02:10:30,200 --> 02:10:34,760
Speaker 1: agent coming out with the youth head, it was like,

2075
02:10:35,640 --> 02:10:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, pouring gas on a flame. They suggest that

2076
02:10:38,840 --> 02:10:44,200
Speaker 1: the families involved Number one, the families always scrutinized. First statistically,

2077
02:10:44,400 --> 02:10:47,920
Speaker 1: they are involved. I do not believe at this juncture

2078
02:10:48,040 --> 02:10:50,280
Speaker 1: that that is the case. Here. I want to defend

2079
02:10:50,520 --> 02:10:53,800
Speaker 1: them so that is not out of the ordinary. This

2080
02:10:53,960 --> 02:10:56,760
Speaker 1: is what I think they should do. Chris McDonough. Everybody

2081
02:10:56,800 --> 02:11:02,440
Speaker 1: take a polygraph. Everybody, everybody in the family, all the granny, nannies,

2082
02:11:03,160 --> 02:11:06,920
Speaker 1: everyone that worked with her in her yard, in her driveway,

2083
02:11:07,000 --> 02:11:13,280
Speaker 1: the handyman, the Instacart person, the pizza guy, all of them,

2084
02:11:13,800 --> 02:11:18,240
Speaker 1: even the Sunday school teacher. Yes, I said it, submit

2085
02:11:18,560 --> 02:11:21,280
Speaker 1: to a polygraph. What do you think about that, Chris McDonough.

2086
02:11:21,320 --> 02:11:25,240
Speaker 1: And then anybody that says, hgbl no, they're at the

2087
02:11:25,240 --> 02:11:26,480
Speaker 1: top of my suspect list.

2088
02:11:26,720 --> 02:11:29,760
Speaker 19: Yeah, I think almost immediately that's not a bad idea.

2089
02:11:30,200 --> 02:11:32,040
Speaker 2: I think that could be a path.

2090
02:11:32,200 --> 02:11:34,680
Speaker 19: But you can take Savannah and the brother off of

2091
02:11:34,720 --> 02:11:38,560
Speaker 19: that list right away. What the anomaly is in that

2092
02:11:38,760 --> 02:11:42,240
Speaker 19: you fed problem here is who brought it to the scene,

2093
02:11:42,640 --> 02:11:45,839
Speaker 19: and that was the IKAC team Internet Crimes against Children.

2094
02:11:46,200 --> 02:11:49,560
Speaker 19: So this could be a whole other lane that's not

2095
02:11:49,680 --> 02:11:52,840
Speaker 19: even being looked at here. That is kind of a

2096
02:11:52,920 --> 02:11:56,680
Speaker 19: one off from the actual abduction of missus Guthrie.

2097
02:11:56,800 --> 02:11:59,480
Speaker 1: Okay, put him up. Are you saying that now we're

2098
02:11:59,480 --> 02:12:02,360
Speaker 1: investigating a crime on a child? Are you actually saying that.

2099
02:12:03,520 --> 02:12:09,840
Speaker 2: I'm saying that, Well, I'm saying that's possible. Yes, yes,

2100
02:12:10,480 --> 02:12:11,120
Speaker 2: it's possible.

2101
02:12:11,160 --> 02:12:16,240
Speaker 1: Okay, No, No, they had the celebrates, so they brought

2102
02:12:16,280 --> 02:12:19,320
Speaker 1: it over. Now, if I'm asking you to bring Everson

2103
02:12:19,360 --> 02:12:22,240
Speaker 1: case files, do you put on a crime Stories t shirt? No,

2104
02:12:22,600 --> 02:12:25,760
Speaker 1: you come in what you're wearing case Solved. I don't

2105
02:12:25,760 --> 02:12:29,640
Speaker 1: think you know what. Take him away. I'm gonna let

2106
02:12:29,640 --> 02:12:31,200
Speaker 1: you sit there and think about what you just said.

2107
02:12:32,200 --> 02:12:34,720
Speaker 1: What But but I'll.

2108
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:36,120
Speaker 2: Tell you here's the deal.

2109
02:12:36,600 --> 02:12:39,400
Speaker 19: When you have a major case like this, and I've

2110
02:12:39,440 --> 02:12:43,080
Speaker 19: worked many of them, and you run across something, you go,

2111
02:12:43,400 --> 02:12:46,840
Speaker 19: what is this? Okay, you don't have the eye TAC

2112
02:12:46,960 --> 02:12:50,480
Speaker 19: people show up with their you fed that just doesn't happen.

2113
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:54,040
Speaker 19: That is a secondary problem that they potentially could have

2114
02:12:54,120 --> 02:12:58,240
Speaker 19: run into. It may not be involved with missus Guthrie

2115
02:12:58,440 --> 02:13:02,360
Speaker 19: in any way, shape or form. However, these guys did

2116
02:13:02,440 --> 02:13:04,520
Speaker 19: show up, and they don't show up.

2117
02:13:04,400 --> 02:13:07,720
Speaker 2: To search for missing eighty four year old women. That's

2118
02:13:07,760 --> 02:13:13,760
Speaker 2: my point.

2119
02:13:15,640 --> 02:13:17,320
Speaker 8: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

2120
02:13:21,880 --> 02:13:26,920
Speaker 1: Who are we looking at? Number one? I'm calling for polygraphs.

2121
02:13:28,160 --> 02:13:32,840
Speaker 1: Savannah Guthrie knows exactly what's going on right now. Savannah

2122
02:13:33,440 --> 02:13:41,600
Speaker 1: is not only a sweet, loving, sincere person. I know

2123
02:13:41,800 --> 02:13:44,680
Speaker 1: because I worked with her. I've seen her under all

2124
02:13:44,840 --> 02:13:49,160
Speaker 1: sorts of stressful conditions, nothing like this, of course, but

2125
02:13:49,240 --> 02:13:53,440
Speaker 1: she knows the law people like the back of her hand,

2126
02:13:54,360 --> 02:13:57,280
Speaker 1: and I guarantee you she'd be the first one to

2127
02:13:57,400 --> 02:14:00,480
Speaker 1: get in line for the polly to make everybody else

2128
02:14:00,840 --> 02:14:05,120
Speaker 1: do it. So what do we do now? Todd Shipley

2129
02:14:05,280 --> 02:14:09,760
Speaker 1: is with US digital cybercrime expert, former Detective Sergeant Reno

2130
02:14:09,800 --> 02:14:13,960
Speaker 1: twenty five years in law enforcement, author of surviving a

2131
02:14:14,040 --> 02:14:20,440
Speaker 1: cyber attack, author of investigating Internet crimes. This is your Baillywick,

2132
02:14:20,680 --> 02:14:24,520
Speaker 1: the whole you fed celebrate. What do you think is

2133
02:14:24,560 --> 02:14:28,839
Speaker 1: going on? To me? It's sop standard operating procedure instead

2134
02:14:28,840 --> 02:14:36,800
Speaker 1: of carting all the Famili's laptops, their desktops, their phones,

2135
02:14:37,480 --> 02:14:40,840
Speaker 1: everything out, They just did you fed, That's what I

2136
02:14:40,880 --> 02:14:42,560
Speaker 1: think happened, Todd, Well, I don't.

2137
02:14:42,440 --> 02:14:44,960
Speaker 17: Think you're incorrect, Nancy. I think what happened is who's

2138
02:14:44,960 --> 02:14:47,360
Speaker 17: available to the time. So you've got a major crime

2139
02:14:47,800 --> 02:14:50,480
Speaker 17: and somebody could have been on vacation or something like that,

2140
02:14:50,560 --> 02:14:53,400
Speaker 17: and they said who's got access to and who's trained

2141
02:14:53,400 --> 02:14:56,160
Speaker 17: to use the tool, and so the guys go, we're here,

2142
02:14:56,480 --> 02:14:59,000
Speaker 17: we can show up. What I think happened, though, is

2143
02:14:59,040 --> 02:15:02,000
Speaker 17: the reason they focused on family, if they did at

2144
02:15:02,000 --> 02:15:04,960
Speaker 17: that time, was keep in mind things like green cameras

2145
02:15:04,960 --> 02:15:08,839
Speaker 17: and those other cameras can share the videos to other people,

2146
02:15:09,160 --> 02:15:11,320
Speaker 17: and so they may have been trying to find other

2147
02:15:11,440 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 17: evidence on those phones from the family's phones that was

2148
02:15:15,680 --> 02:15:19,160
Speaker 17: shared by the ring camera at the house. So there's

2149
02:15:19,200 --> 02:15:21,320
Speaker 17: a lot of other things that explain why this occurred.

2150
02:15:21,360 --> 02:15:23,520
Speaker 17: It wasn't that there was some other crime occurring. The

2151
02:15:23,560 --> 02:15:25,880
Speaker 17: family may have had evidence that they wanted to look

2152
02:15:25,880 --> 02:15:28,400
Speaker 17: at the Uber receipts, all the other things that were

2153
02:15:28,440 --> 02:15:32,040
Speaker 17: going on. They're trying to build a background around what

2154
02:15:32,280 --> 02:15:35,320
Speaker 17: happened and it's on phones, because we've talked about this

2155
02:15:35,400 --> 02:15:38,400
Speaker 17: many times about how the phones have everything about our

2156
02:15:38,400 --> 02:15:41,320
Speaker 17: lives and it's going to describe the mother too.

2157
02:15:41,520 --> 02:15:45,360
Speaker 1: Okay, you listed and I've really liked this idea, todd

2158
02:15:45,360 --> 02:15:48,839
Speaker 1: Shipley other things. When I think of the you FED celebrate,

2159
02:15:48,920 --> 02:15:50,680
Speaker 1: I think a cell phone. I think of an iPad,

2160
02:15:50,960 --> 02:15:55,840
Speaker 1: a desktop, a laptop. You're saying there are other devices

2161
02:15:55,880 --> 02:15:58,960
Speaker 1: and thwell that can be factored into the u FED,

2162
02:15:59,120 --> 02:16:02,000
Speaker 1: not just those devices such as what so.

2163
02:16:01,880 --> 02:16:04,160
Speaker 17: What we're talking about is the apps on the phone,

2164
02:16:04,520 --> 02:16:08,760
Speaker 17: because you can share those apps with other people, and

2165
02:16:08,840 --> 02:16:13,400
Speaker 17: so I can share my ring camera app with family, friends,

2166
02:16:13,440 --> 02:16:15,320
Speaker 17: whoever I want to share it with, and that may

2167
02:16:15,320 --> 02:16:17,000
Speaker 17: have been on the phone, and that's what they're looking for.

2168
02:16:17,240 --> 02:16:20,000
Speaker 17: They're looking for the uber connections. They're looking for all

2169
02:16:20,040 --> 02:16:23,440
Speaker 17: the apps that were used to build a background about

2170
02:16:23,440 --> 02:16:25,360
Speaker 17: what the mother did beforehand.

2171
02:16:25,440 --> 02:16:29,720
Speaker 1: But how would looking at their devices and their laptops

2172
02:16:30,040 --> 02:16:35,320
Speaker 1: and so forth help them establish what Nancy Guthrie did.

2173
02:16:35,560 --> 02:16:38,879
Speaker 17: Because you can share everything you do uber. You do

2174
02:16:38,920 --> 02:16:40,720
Speaker 17: an uber, I can share it with a family or

2175
02:16:40,720 --> 02:16:43,200
Speaker 17: friend that I did it. I can share the camera

2176
02:16:43,240 --> 02:16:47,080
Speaker 17: itself and let other people see what's happening at my house,

2177
02:16:47,360 --> 02:16:50,440
Speaker 17: so I can get the notifications and get information, and

2178
02:16:50,640 --> 02:16:53,039
Speaker 17: that may have been what's on their phones. It's not

2179
02:16:53,320 --> 02:16:56,800
Speaker 17: something nefarious. It's just that all these things can be

2180
02:16:56,920 --> 02:17:00,200
Speaker 17: shared between phones now and they could have had had

2181
02:17:00,600 --> 02:17:03,640
Speaker 17: the images or some other things, maybe even the pacemaker.

2182
02:17:03,680 --> 02:17:06,840
Speaker 17: I don't know how the pacemaker, this particular one worked,

2183
02:17:06,920 --> 02:17:10,360
Speaker 17: but it could have been shared across other devices so

2184
02:17:10,400 --> 02:17:12,360
Speaker 17: that people knew she was in trouble.

2185
02:17:12,480 --> 02:17:15,520
Speaker 1: Okay, I've got an example to boil down what you

2186
02:17:15,560 --> 02:17:20,800
Speaker 1: just said, and I found like parables that this made

2187
02:17:20,840 --> 02:17:24,600
Speaker 1: more sense to jury's Okay, we have granny cams at

2188
02:17:24,600 --> 02:17:27,520
Speaker 1: our home because my mother, my ninety four year old

2189
02:17:27,520 --> 02:17:31,400
Speaker 1: mother lives with us. My husband has the app. I

2190
02:17:31,600 --> 02:17:36,119
Speaker 1: have the app, our children have the app. So you're

2191
02:17:36,200 --> 02:17:40,120
Speaker 1: saying that, for instance, if the fans came and did

2192
02:17:40,160 --> 02:17:45,680
Speaker 1: celebrate on me, they could get anything I shared with

2193
02:17:45,840 --> 02:17:50,200
Speaker 1: my children, such as life three sixty bar exactly. So

2194
02:17:50,560 --> 02:17:54,560
Speaker 1: they're on my Uber eights, they're on my uber. Is

2195
02:17:54,600 --> 02:17:55,600
Speaker 1: that what you're saying?

2196
02:17:55,920 --> 02:17:56,400
Speaker 2: Exactly?

2197
02:17:56,680 --> 02:17:59,440
Speaker 17: And Lie three sixty, you know, is a great example

2198
02:17:59,560 --> 02:18:01,680
Speaker 17: of one of the those things that are shared commonly

2199
02:18:01,680 --> 02:18:04,840
Speaker 17: a bunkst family to track and identify where people are at,

2200
02:18:04,959 --> 02:18:08,560
Speaker 17: especially a vulnerable senior. That's an important thing to understand

2201
02:18:08,560 --> 02:18:10,520
Speaker 17: where they're at, and so the family wants it to know.

2202
02:18:10,680 --> 02:18:13,880
Speaker 17: So their apps are going to be tracking what's going

2203
02:18:13,920 --> 02:18:14,360
Speaker 17: on with mouch.

2204
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:17,840
Speaker 1: Okay, what if they had a family phone plan? Do

2205
02:18:17,879 --> 02:18:21,600
Speaker 1: you know about those? How a group of people? Okay,

2206
02:18:21,800 --> 02:18:23,680
Speaker 1: explain that would that be included?

2207
02:18:23,800 --> 02:18:25,160
Speaker 4: Well, it could potentially.

2208
02:18:25,160 --> 02:18:28,000
Speaker 17: It just depends on the settings that you, as the

2209
02:18:28,080 --> 02:18:31,320
Speaker 17: user set up or the owner of that family plan. Now,

2210
02:18:31,400 --> 02:18:34,520
Speaker 17: some of those things those family plans, you know, share

2211
02:18:34,760 --> 02:18:37,000
Speaker 17: the text message and share all those things, and you can,

2212
02:18:37,080 --> 02:18:39,160
Speaker 17: as the owner of the plan, can go in and

2213
02:18:39,200 --> 02:18:42,720
Speaker 17: see activity certain activities depending on what's happening. So those

2214
02:18:42,720 --> 02:18:45,720
Speaker 17: are other technologies that you know, the law enforcement is

2215
02:18:45,720 --> 02:18:49,400
Speaker 17: going to be looking at to see the behavior before

2216
02:18:49,480 --> 02:18:50,959
Speaker 17: and after the incident.

2217
02:18:51,080 --> 02:18:56,400
Speaker 1: So bottom line, Todd Shipley, if they could you fed

2218
02:18:56,680 --> 02:19:02,000
Speaker 1: and I'm using that as a verb, celebrate the family's information,

2219
02:19:04,120 --> 02:19:08,680
Speaker 1: they could then at the same time captured any shared

2220
02:19:08,920 --> 02:19:11,959
Speaker 1: apps that were shared with Nancy Guthrie.

2221
02:19:12,560 --> 02:19:14,199
Speaker 5: Correct, correct, exactly.

2222
02:19:14,320 --> 02:19:17,879
Speaker 17: That's that's why the celebrate was there looking at the phone.

2223
02:19:17,720 --> 02:19:21,920
Speaker 1: Got it And just an example, Todd Shipley, of how important.

2224
02:19:21,959 --> 02:19:27,680
Speaker 1: That is the Brian Coberger, Idaho case. We know that

2225
02:19:27,720 --> 02:19:30,760
Speaker 1: there was a delivery. I think it was a door

2226
02:19:30,840 --> 02:19:36,480
Speaker 1: dash around four am, three thirty am, four am because

2227
02:19:36,520 --> 02:19:39,680
Speaker 1: we saw it on one of the victim's phones. That's

2228
02:19:39,720 --> 02:19:44,160
Speaker 1: how important this is. I'm thinking about how to go

2229
02:19:44,440 --> 02:19:50,760
Speaker 1: old school to find Nancy Guthrie, starting with lpr's license

2230
02:19:50,840 --> 02:19:53,600
Speaker 1: plate readers, red light cams.

2231
02:19:54,240 --> 02:19:54,480
Speaker 6: Yes.

2232
02:19:55,120 --> 02:20:01,080
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry joining US Forensic Certified Bloodstained Pattern Analysts, Senior

2233
02:20:01,200 --> 02:20:08,000
Speaker 1: crime scene Analyst, death investigator, author of bloodstained pattern analysis

2234
02:20:08,360 --> 02:20:11,959
Speaker 1: for author of forensic science applications to death and crime

2235
02:20:12,040 --> 02:20:17,200
Speaker 1: scene author of death investigations, Information to obtain during a

2236
02:20:17,240 --> 02:20:21,119
Speaker 1: forensic death investigation. It goes on and on. Let's talk

2237
02:20:21,440 --> 02:20:26,440
Speaker 1: old school. We've heard over and over from mainstream media

2238
02:20:26,640 --> 02:20:31,600
Speaker 1: that nobody's door cam could likely catch anything because of

2239
02:20:31,720 --> 02:20:34,360
Speaker 1: the houses in that neighborhood are set far off the

2240
02:20:34,400 --> 02:20:39,600
Speaker 1: street and there is a lot of foliage, trees, you

2241
02:20:39,680 --> 02:20:42,520
Speaker 1: name it. That's why people want to live there. You

2242
02:20:42,520 --> 02:20:44,400
Speaker 1: have a secluded Look at all the can I see

2243
02:20:44,400 --> 02:20:47,600
Speaker 1: that aeril again? Look at all the trees, the foliage

2244
02:20:47,720 --> 02:20:54,160
Speaker 1: around each home. I see what they're saying, But those streets,

2245
02:20:54,240 --> 02:20:59,520
Speaker 1: Jeff gentry have to have to pour out somewhere, like

2246
02:20:59,560 --> 02:21:03,160
Speaker 1: the aim to the river, like the river to the sea.

2247
02:21:03,959 --> 02:21:09,080
Speaker 1: There's an outlet somewhere, and at that outlet, I guarantee

2248
02:21:09,120 --> 02:21:12,879
Speaker 1: you there's a red light. Bam, what about it.

2249
02:21:13,000 --> 02:21:16,920
Speaker 20: I completely agree at this point, six days into this investigation,

2250
02:21:17,120 --> 02:21:19,039
Speaker 20: if you do not have a suspect, and you do

2251
02:21:19,120 --> 02:21:22,080
Speaker 20: not have a solid lead, you can't just sit around

2252
02:21:22,120 --> 02:21:24,320
Speaker 20: and wait. I know we have tons of people working

2253
02:21:24,360 --> 02:21:26,720
Speaker 20: on this. You actually have to go out, like you said,

2254
02:21:26,800 --> 02:21:29,800
Speaker 20: yet old school. You have to rely on traditional police

2255
02:21:29,840 --> 02:21:32,480
Speaker 20: work and you have to rely on science to solve

2256
02:21:32,480 --> 02:21:35,840
Speaker 20: this crime. This is not your typical criminal. It's not

2257
02:21:35,959 --> 02:21:38,240
Speaker 20: somebody that has made huge mistakes. They probably didn't have

2258
02:21:38,240 --> 02:21:39,680
Speaker 20: their cell phone with them where they're going to get

2259
02:21:39,680 --> 02:21:43,720
Speaker 20: self power things. They're not making major mistakes like you

2260
02:21:43,760 --> 02:21:45,640
Speaker 20: see in a lot of crimes of passion. This is

2261
02:21:45,680 --> 02:21:48,920
Speaker 20: obviously planned out. This is not your typical crime. But

2262
02:21:49,280 --> 02:21:52,360
Speaker 20: you see that they did make mistakes. They took things

2263
02:21:52,400 --> 02:21:55,720
Speaker 20: from the home, like the camera. They made mistakes by

2264
02:21:55,800 --> 02:22:00,000
Speaker 20: leaving bloodstains behind. So when you're talking about forensics and science,

2265
02:22:00,400 --> 02:22:03,840
Speaker 20: you think about every single contact leaves a trace. That's

2266
02:22:03,840 --> 02:22:07,599
Speaker 20: one of the foundations of forensic science. Every single contact.

2267
02:22:07,280 --> 02:22:07,840
Speaker 2: Leaves a trace.

2268
02:22:08,240 --> 02:22:11,480
Speaker 20: So when this person was preparing for this crime, they

2269
02:22:11,560 --> 02:22:14,680
Speaker 20: left forensic evidence. When this person was traveling to the scene,

2270
02:22:14,720 --> 02:22:17,199
Speaker 20: they left forensic evidence when they broke into the home.

2271
02:22:17,240 --> 02:22:19,680
Speaker 20: And we're talking about forced entry. A lot of people

2272
02:22:19,720 --> 02:22:22,000
Speaker 20: don't know what forced entry means. It means like a

2273
02:22:22,040 --> 02:22:24,800
Speaker 20: door was either pride open, a window was broken, somebody

2274
02:22:24,879 --> 02:22:27,560
Speaker 20: used some kind of a mechanism to unlock a door.

2275
02:22:27,600 --> 02:22:30,960
Speaker 20: So that's what forced entry means. So they're leaving behind evidence.

2276
02:22:31,560 --> 02:22:33,880
Speaker 20: Looking at the front door, I don't see any fingerprint dust.

2277
02:22:34,440 --> 02:22:36,480
Speaker 20: So what I would do in this case is I

2278
02:22:36,520 --> 02:22:41,120
Speaker 20: would scrap everything, start from scratch, recreate this whole event.

2279
02:22:41,560 --> 02:22:44,680
Speaker 20: Try to think about how this criminal got in the home.

2280
02:22:45,120 --> 02:22:48,680
Speaker 20: Walk their path, how did they interact with the victim?

2281
02:22:49,120 --> 02:22:51,360
Speaker 20: Walk their path, did they sit down somewhere, did they

2282
02:22:51,360 --> 02:22:53,680
Speaker 20: touch things, did they wash their hands? Did they eat

2283
02:22:53,720 --> 02:22:56,879
Speaker 20: something out of the refrigerator. All of these contacts inside

2284
02:22:56,920 --> 02:23:00,400
Speaker 20: the home and with the victim can leave traces. They

2285
02:23:00,400 --> 02:23:03,480
Speaker 20: could leave bibers, it could leave fingerprints, it could leave DNA.

2286
02:23:04,000 --> 02:23:06,320
Speaker 20: You can't rule anything out in this case. Even if

2287
02:23:06,360 --> 02:23:09,240
Speaker 20: they've released the scene, they can still go back in

2288
02:23:09,480 --> 02:23:13,120
Speaker 20: and use blood enhancing chemicals like blue Star in the

2289
02:23:13,200 --> 02:23:16,039
Speaker 20: dark to see if bloodstains that may have been wiped up,

2290
02:23:16,160 --> 02:23:19,959
Speaker 20: or maybe small blood stains that got disturbed during these contacts.

2291
02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:23,600
Speaker 20: You have to think like a criminal in these cases.

2292
02:23:23,600 --> 02:23:25,360
Speaker 20: How did this person get in? How did they exit

2293
02:23:26,120 --> 02:23:30,200
Speaker 20: the door cam? Most of these door cams you can't

2294
02:23:30,240 --> 02:23:32,359
Speaker 20: just pull them off. They require some kind of special

2295
02:23:32,400 --> 02:23:35,720
Speaker 20: tool to get them off. So was there some kind

2296
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:39,039
Speaker 20: of a scratch or did they leave a fingerprint behind

2297
02:23:39,040 --> 02:23:41,160
Speaker 20: when they were reaching through the door to remove this

2298
02:23:41,320 --> 02:23:43,760
Speaker 20: camera so it wouldn't see when they're walking her out.

2299
02:23:44,360 --> 02:23:47,120
Speaker 20: Like we mentioned before, there doesn't really appear to be

2300
02:23:47,320 --> 02:23:49,600
Speaker 20: a struggle at that front door. We know that she

2301
02:23:49,640 --> 02:23:51,400
Speaker 20: was bleeding, we know she's standing there for some period

2302
02:23:51,440 --> 02:23:53,560
Speaker 20: of time. We believe that she was upright and walked

2303
02:23:53,560 --> 02:23:56,720
Speaker 20: away because the nature of the blood stains. But why

2304
02:23:56,800 --> 02:23:59,280
Speaker 20: didn't she follow the ground? But what was the reason

2305
02:23:59,320 --> 02:24:03,720
Speaker 20: that she left that home without being dragged away or

2306
02:24:03,760 --> 02:24:06,480
Speaker 20: carried away? There's no evidence that she was murdered in

2307
02:24:06,520 --> 02:24:09,959
Speaker 20: the home to so why does she leave? You have

2308
02:24:10,000 --> 02:24:12,720
Speaker 20: to think about all these things. You can't rely on

2309
02:24:14,040 --> 02:24:16,840
Speaker 20: assumption at this point. You have to recreate everything and

2310
02:24:17,240 --> 02:24:20,199
Speaker 20: figure out where this person messed up, because this criminal

2311
02:24:20,240 --> 02:24:22,720
Speaker 20: did mess up somewhere and they will be caught.

2312
02:24:23,080 --> 02:24:26,960
Speaker 1: One thing I've been wondering, and I'm projecting, it's really

2313
02:24:27,240 --> 02:24:32,560
Speaker 1: hard to pick up my mother, who's very light, she's

2314
02:24:32,680 --> 02:24:38,280
Speaker 1: ninety four and move her anywhere without her walker. Very hard.

2315
02:24:38,400 --> 02:24:42,920
Speaker 1: Now Nancy uses a cane. Is her cane missing? Did

2316
02:24:42,959 --> 02:24:45,920
Speaker 1: she have a walker that's used at home? Is it missing?

2317
02:24:46,560 --> 02:24:51,880
Speaker 1: Did they take that? If they didn't, I'm wondering if

2318
02:24:51,920 --> 02:24:57,039
Speaker 1: there had to be two people to help her walk. Jeffrey,

2319
02:24:57,480 --> 02:24:58,320
Speaker 1: that's very possible.

2320
02:24:58,320 --> 02:25:00,800
Speaker 20: I think about my own mom when looking at this case,

2321
02:25:00,800 --> 02:25:02,840
Speaker 20: because she's kind of built the same way.

2322
02:25:03,040 --> 02:25:05,320
Speaker 4: She has thin skin, she would leave easily.

2323
02:25:06,000 --> 02:25:08,440
Speaker 20: And anytime that my mom has ever been in like

2324
02:25:08,680 --> 02:25:12,280
Speaker 20: physical distress or needed help or you know, when she

2325
02:25:12,320 --> 02:25:14,480
Speaker 20: had knee surgery, I had to help her throughout the house.

2326
02:25:14,840 --> 02:25:15,600
Speaker 5: It's not easy.

2327
02:25:15,640 --> 02:25:19,520
Speaker 20: Even if somebody is not a very big person walking

2328
02:25:19,560 --> 02:25:21,800
Speaker 20: them throughout the house. They're gonna be touching different things,

2329
02:25:22,120 --> 02:25:24,720
Speaker 20: they might fall down, so it's not an easy thing

2330
02:25:24,760 --> 02:25:27,039
Speaker 20: to do. And if you're trying to remove cameras, if

2331
02:25:27,040 --> 02:25:29,160
Speaker 20: you're trying to get out to a car, quickly to

2332
02:25:29,440 --> 02:25:32,200
Speaker 20: leave the scene. They're going to be touching things. There's

2333
02:25:32,360 --> 02:25:34,760
Speaker 20: going to be things disturbed. I want to know more

2334
02:25:34,800 --> 02:25:37,000
Speaker 20: about what's inside the house. I would love to know that,

2335
02:25:38,000 --> 02:25:39,520
Speaker 20: and I would love to see the scene. I would

2336
02:25:39,520 --> 02:25:41,640
Speaker 20: love to see the area. I would love to walk

2337
02:25:41,680 --> 02:25:43,800
Speaker 20: around door to door ask neighbors again.

2338
02:25:43,600 --> 02:25:44,200
Speaker 4: What did you see?

2339
02:25:44,440 --> 02:25:47,400
Speaker 20: Every little piece of information is going to be critical

2340
02:25:47,440 --> 02:25:49,280
Speaker 20: at this point.

2341
02:25:54,840 --> 02:25:56,480
Speaker 8: Crime stores with Nancy.

2342
02:25:56,200 --> 02:26:09,160
Speaker 1: Gray, police bringing out devices, bringing out evidence. They're swarming

2343
02:26:09,240 --> 02:26:13,800
Speaker 1: it still. This is from our friends at KOLD. The

2344
02:26:14,000 --> 02:26:18,520
Speaker 1: search was called off for a period of time, then

2345
02:26:18,720 --> 02:26:23,920
Speaker 1: it resumed. Much has been made about law enforcement releasing

2346
02:26:24,000 --> 02:26:27,680
Speaker 1: the crime scene and then having to come back to

2347
02:26:27,720 --> 02:26:31,119
Speaker 1: the crime scene. Does anybody on this panel disagree they

2348
02:26:31,280 --> 02:26:34,600
Speaker 1: released it prematurely. I didn't know what they were thinking

2349
02:26:34,640 --> 02:26:35,320
Speaker 1: when they did that.

2350
02:26:35,480 --> 02:26:37,920
Speaker 2: I that was a thing that you have everything that

2351
02:26:37,959 --> 02:26:38,320
Speaker 2: you need.

2352
02:26:38,360 --> 02:26:40,360
Speaker 20: It's not uncommon to release a crime scene, and it's

2353
02:26:40,400 --> 02:26:42,720
Speaker 20: not uncommon to go back to a crime scene after

2354
02:26:42,760 --> 02:26:44,960
Speaker 20: it's been released, after you bounce ideas off each other.

2355
02:26:45,560 --> 02:26:47,760
Speaker 20: For example, I think that they should probably go back

2356
02:26:47,760 --> 02:26:52,040
Speaker 20: in there again and open up dreams take every single place.

2357
02:26:53,160 --> 02:26:56,440
Speaker 1: As I have said many times, they release a crime

2358
02:26:56,520 --> 02:26:59,760
Speaker 1: scene and everybody and a little sister could go over

2359
02:26:59,760 --> 02:27:05,360
Speaker 1: there and poke around those photos of the blood that

2360
02:27:05,520 --> 02:27:10,199
Speaker 1: was taken by media. That's not right. No, they should

2361
02:27:10,240 --> 02:27:12,600
Speaker 1: not have released that crime scene because now it's been

2362
02:27:12,640 --> 02:27:15,560
Speaker 1: totally compromised. You ever try to try a case when

2363
02:27:15,560 --> 02:27:19,680
Speaker 1: the scene's being compromised, It's hell. It's like the golden

2364
02:27:19,840 --> 02:27:23,520
Speaker 1: lottery ticket for the defense to claim, oh, that wasn't

2365
02:27:23,520 --> 02:27:27,600
Speaker 1: there before it was planted, and so forth and so on.

2366
02:27:28,120 --> 02:27:33,800
Speaker 1: Can we get back to the ransom notes? We all

2367
02:27:33,879 --> 02:27:38,120
Speaker 1: know by now, all you legal eagles know that a

2368
02:27:38,280 --> 02:27:43,520
Speaker 1: fake ransom note was delivered by text to Savannah and

2369
02:27:43,560 --> 02:27:46,560
Speaker 1: I think her brother and or her brother and sister.

2370
02:27:47,600 --> 02:27:51,760
Speaker 1: That Purp has been found. He's been arrested, and he's

2371
02:27:51,800 --> 02:27:55,440
Speaker 1: going to be prosecuted under federal law. And the theory

2372
02:27:55,720 --> 02:28:00,400
Speaker 1: is he used interstate commerce. What does that mean? Anything

2373
02:28:00,440 --> 02:28:04,080
Speaker 1: that crosses state lines has been deemed by our Supreme

2374
02:28:04,120 --> 02:28:08,120
Speaker 1: Court to be use of interstate commerce. Either you're driving

2375
02:28:08,120 --> 02:28:11,400
Speaker 1: across state lines, that's interstate And you're using a vehicle

2376
02:28:11,440 --> 02:28:15,120
Speaker 1: and you bought gas, Hey, that's commerce. You may be

2377
02:28:15,400 --> 02:28:19,359
Speaker 1: using the phone, you pay a phone bill, that's commerce.

2378
02:28:19,760 --> 02:28:24,280
Speaker 1: You may text, you may send a telegraph a telegraph,

2379
02:28:24,320 --> 02:28:28,760
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if your communication crosses state lines or

2380
02:28:29,400 --> 02:28:33,199
Speaker 1: any way controlled by the federal government. You have used

2381
02:28:33,400 --> 02:28:38,520
Speaker 1: interstate commerce. Bam. Does that make sense to everybody? No,

2382
02:28:38,640 --> 02:28:41,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't, but it makes sense to the US Supreme Court.

2383
02:28:41,800 --> 02:28:47,680
Speaker 1: So when this guy sent a text across US airwaves

2384
02:28:49,000 --> 02:28:53,920
Speaker 1: to Savannah for a ransom, which is a violation of

2385
02:28:53,920 --> 02:28:58,080
Speaker 1: the law that's interstate commerce, he has already been booked

2386
02:28:58,120 --> 02:29:01,600
Speaker 1: and he is in jail. We have also learned Dave

2387
02:29:01,680 --> 02:29:05,959
Speaker 1: Matt that law enforcement has said all the fake ransoms

2388
02:29:06,400 --> 02:29:08,679
Speaker 1: are bogging down the investigation.

2389
02:29:08,879 --> 02:29:11,400
Speaker 5: There's that many, you know, Nancy, this is one of

2390
02:29:11,400 --> 02:29:15,480
Speaker 5: those situations where the media interest because people are so

2391
02:29:15,680 --> 02:29:19,360
Speaker 5: fascinated by this, mainly because of Savannah Guthrie, but also

2392
02:29:19,520 --> 02:29:21,400
Speaker 5: the fact that there's an eighty four year old woman

2393
02:29:21,440 --> 02:29:25,320
Speaker 5: missing and it's got people going crazy. So, yeah, the

2394
02:29:25,360 --> 02:29:28,400
Speaker 5: fact that we know there are ransom notes. You know,

2395
02:29:28,400 --> 02:29:31,480
Speaker 5: we've had plenty of missing people cases that we've covered

2396
02:29:31,760 --> 02:29:34,680
Speaker 5: that didn't have ransom notes, but here we have them.

2397
02:29:34,680 --> 02:29:36,920
Speaker 5: So all the crazies have come out of the woodwork

2398
02:29:37,160 --> 02:29:41,680
Speaker 5: and they're flooding. All the investigators have to take everything seriously.

2399
02:29:41,800 --> 02:29:44,400
Speaker 5: As they said, from the very beginning, you know, before

2400
02:29:44,440 --> 02:29:47,280
Speaker 5: they even verified the first ransom notes we heard about,

2401
02:29:47,320 --> 02:29:51,400
Speaker 5: they were like, we are taking every tip, every call seriously.

2402
02:29:51,720 --> 02:29:54,720
Speaker 5: They have to. It's an investigation, and that's what they've

2403
02:29:54,760 --> 02:29:57,200
Speaker 5: been doing. That's how they were able to get the

2404
02:29:57,240 --> 02:30:00,360
Speaker 5: guy arrested in California so quickly. They've already got him

2405
02:30:00,400 --> 02:30:03,280
Speaker 5: admitting that he sent the fake or that he sent

2406
02:30:03,360 --> 02:30:06,720
Speaker 5: the fake messages. You know, they had him tied down

2407
02:30:06,800 --> 02:30:09,560
Speaker 5: in a matter of twenty four hours, Nancy. So yeah,

2408
02:30:09,680 --> 02:30:13,120
Speaker 5: they're spending a lot of time on everything that comes

2409
02:30:13,120 --> 02:30:16,879
Speaker 5: into them, including fake ransom notes, trying to take advantage

2410
02:30:17,080 --> 02:30:18,560
Speaker 5: of a big claim billionaire.

2411
02:30:18,600 --> 02:30:23,600
Speaker 1: You know, you know, I'm thinking about technology, about going

2412
02:30:23,720 --> 02:30:27,879
Speaker 1: old school to solve this case. When we say old school,

2413
02:30:28,400 --> 02:30:33,080
Speaker 1: todd Shipley, you were reeling off a lot of must do's,

2414
02:30:34,120 --> 02:30:38,400
Speaker 1: What are they what must be happening right now?

2415
02:30:38,560 --> 02:30:41,320
Speaker 17: Well, from a technology point of view, what the law

2416
02:30:41,360 --> 02:30:45,640
Speaker 17: enforcements looking at is anything they can find where there's

2417
02:30:45,680 --> 02:30:48,640
Speaker 17: a record. They're looking at the tower records for all

2418
02:30:48,680 --> 02:30:51,199
Speaker 17: the cell phones in that area. Keep in mind, there's

2419
02:30:51,240 --> 02:30:52,879
Speaker 17: always going to be a lot of records, but this

2420
02:30:53,000 --> 02:30:54,640
Speaker 17: is the middle of the night so it'll be less

2421
02:30:55,680 --> 02:30:58,880
Speaker 17: a look at all the flock cameras and any cameras

2422
02:30:58,879 --> 02:31:02,840
Speaker 17: that are reading license plates in and around the area

2423
02:31:03,000 --> 02:31:07,040
Speaker 17: and throughout Tucson, because they're trying to find any suspect

2424
02:31:07,320 --> 02:31:10,560
Speaker 17: that's moving at that time of night, and so that's

2425
02:31:10,560 --> 02:31:13,600
Speaker 17: going to limit the amount of people moving around. So

2426
02:31:14,040 --> 02:31:15,760
Speaker 17: I know they've already looked at all the ring cameras

2427
02:31:15,800 --> 02:31:18,480
Speaker 17: in the neighborhood. They're looking at all the records that

2428
02:31:18,480 --> 02:31:21,360
Speaker 17: they could find. Technology wise, they've gone through her phone

2429
02:31:21,400 --> 02:31:24,520
Speaker 17: trying to figure out other things that she's done that

2430
02:31:24,560 --> 02:31:27,560
Speaker 17: could lead up to a precipitate something. Keep in mind,

2431
02:31:27,600 --> 02:31:29,959
Speaker 17: we don't know the contact she's had with other people.

2432
02:31:30,120 --> 02:31:31,800
Speaker 17: One of the things I talk about all the time

2433
02:31:31,840 --> 02:31:35,600
Speaker 17: with seniors and vulnerable people is that if you're not

2434
02:31:35,680 --> 02:31:38,520
Speaker 17: paying attention, they could get sucked into some kind of

2435
02:31:38,600 --> 02:31:41,080
Speaker 17: scam and you don't know it. So they're looking at

2436
02:31:41,120 --> 02:31:43,480
Speaker 17: her phone to find out if she was texting, communicating

2437
02:31:43,480 --> 02:31:47,480
Speaker 17: with on What's app, was somebody talking about bitcoin or

2438
02:31:47,520 --> 02:31:51,960
Speaker 17: something else, and becoming more conversant with the kinds of

2439
02:31:52,040 --> 02:31:53,920
Speaker 17: contacts she had.

2440
02:31:53,920 --> 02:31:54,760
Speaker 4: Towards the end there.

2441
02:31:54,800 --> 02:31:57,360
Speaker 17: So there's a huge amount of valuable data they're going

2442
02:31:57,440 --> 02:31:58,400
Speaker 17: to get from the technology.

2443
02:31:58,720 --> 02:31:59,960
Speaker 1: What about it? Jeffrey Gentry.

2444
02:32:01,400 --> 02:32:07,119
Speaker 20: I'm curious about the motive. Is it really financial at

2445
02:32:07,120 --> 02:32:10,080
Speaker 20: this point? Because you have a person that has obviously

2446
02:32:10,080 --> 02:32:13,080
Speaker 20: put out there that they want money for this crime,

2447
02:32:13,520 --> 02:32:15,720
Speaker 20: but they haven't been in contact with the family since

2448
02:32:15,760 --> 02:32:18,320
Speaker 20: they haven't been in contact with law enforcement, so I

2449
02:32:18,320 --> 02:32:21,119
Speaker 20: think you have to kind of start thinking about doing

2450
02:32:21,160 --> 02:32:24,800
Speaker 20: some profiling in this case, trying to figure out who

2451
02:32:24,800 --> 02:32:28,400
Speaker 20: this suspect is and what actually is their intended motive

2452
02:32:28,879 --> 02:32:31,560
Speaker 20: and why haven't you heard from them? Why why aren't

2453
02:32:31,560 --> 02:32:32,200
Speaker 20: they reaching out?

2454
02:32:32,280 --> 02:32:34,560
Speaker 1: Well, I think the motive is clear. Have I missed

2455
02:32:34,560 --> 02:32:38,440
Speaker 1: something they said, give me millions in bigcoin quote or else.

2456
02:32:38,640 --> 02:32:43,480
Speaker 1: I think that's the motive which leads me to has

2457
02:32:43,520 --> 02:32:46,360
Speaker 1: anybody hit Nancy Guthrie or her family up for money?

2458
02:32:46,680 --> 02:32:50,400
Speaker 1: Is somebody in need financial need that they know of.

2459
02:32:50,920 --> 02:32:54,360
Speaker 1: I would be looking at every single person and their

2460
02:32:54,520 --> 02:33:00,600
Speaker 1: husbands and sons that need money, anybody with ad They've

2461
02:33:00,640 --> 02:33:03,120
Speaker 1: already been looking at sex predators in the area. But

2462
02:33:03,600 --> 02:33:06,440
Speaker 1: it's not about a sex predator. I'm telling you that

2463
02:33:06,560 --> 02:33:07,920
Speaker 1: right now. Agree or disagree.

2464
02:33:08,040 --> 02:33:11,880
Speaker 19: Chris mcdonna, Yeah, I wouldn't take anything off the table though,

2465
02:33:11,879 --> 02:33:15,240
Speaker 19: because she's such a low risk victim. Here there is

2466
02:33:15,400 --> 02:33:18,280
Speaker 19: an association between the victim and this offender. And to

2467
02:33:18,360 --> 02:33:23,160
Speaker 19: your point, Nancy, somewhere in this circle of influence and

2468
02:33:23,200 --> 02:33:25,440
Speaker 19: you always do start with the family, of course, and

2469
02:33:25,480 --> 02:33:29,320
Speaker 19: you work your way out. This offender is familiar because

2470
02:33:29,560 --> 02:33:33,359
Speaker 19: if you look at the victimology of this particular woman here,

2471
02:33:33,840 --> 02:33:38,880
Speaker 19: you know the offender risk of just arbitrarily showing up

2472
02:33:38,879 --> 02:33:41,600
Speaker 19: at you know, two o'clock in the morning, ripping a

2473
02:33:41,640 --> 02:33:45,160
Speaker 19: doorbell off, breaking into a house, you know, taking an

2474
02:33:45,200 --> 02:33:47,560
Speaker 19: eighty four year old woman out of that house, and

2475
02:33:47,600 --> 02:33:50,680
Speaker 19: then saying, oh, by the way, I need bitcoin between

2476
02:33:50,720 --> 02:33:53,720
Speaker 19: two or four million dollars. That tells us a whole

2477
02:33:53,720 --> 02:33:58,800
Speaker 19: bunch about the unsophistication of this particular perpetrator. So that

2478
02:33:58,879 --> 02:34:01,840
Speaker 19: means at some point they have cross paths. And if

2479
02:34:01,840 --> 02:34:04,600
Speaker 19: you look at this picture here with her sitting on

2480
02:34:04,640 --> 02:34:08,280
Speaker 19: that chair, look at her left hand. That to me,

2481
02:34:08,400 --> 02:34:11,000
Speaker 19: when I first saw that photograph, I thought, okay, did

2482
02:34:11,040 --> 02:34:14,480
Speaker 19: she fall going outside onto that porch? Because when you

2483
02:34:14,520 --> 02:34:17,560
Speaker 19: look at the blood evidence there, there's also a piece

2484
02:34:17,600 --> 02:34:21,040
Speaker 19: of the debris over on top of the blood, and

2485
02:34:21,080 --> 02:34:25,000
Speaker 19: those are ninety degree droplets which the other guests I'm

2486
02:34:25,000 --> 02:34:28,440
Speaker 19: sure would agree with. If you look at the upper

2487
02:34:28,520 --> 02:34:31,760
Speaker 19: left hand quadrant, there is a debris on top of

2488
02:34:31,800 --> 02:34:34,600
Speaker 19: that blood. So I went back and looked at the

2489
02:34:34,600 --> 02:34:39,520
Speaker 19: news reports where they showed the evidence technicians photographing that,

2490
02:34:40,120 --> 02:34:42,920
Speaker 19: and so does that tell us that the suspect was

2491
02:34:43,000 --> 02:34:46,560
Speaker 19: behind her and had kicked that debris on top of

2492
02:34:46,600 --> 02:34:50,160
Speaker 19: that blood, and had she fallen and was trying to

2493
02:34:50,200 --> 02:34:53,800
Speaker 19: get back up which would create those ninety degree blood

2494
02:34:53,879 --> 02:34:58,600
Speaker 19: droplets there? So I think there's a possibility that you

2495
02:34:58,720 --> 02:35:01,800
Speaker 19: do have to go old scar cool. The technology is

2496
02:35:01,840 --> 02:35:05,760
Speaker 19: going to be a bonus. But somebody knew who mess

2497
02:35:05,760 --> 02:35:06,720
Speaker 19: Guthrie was.

2498
02:35:07,040 --> 02:35:10,439
Speaker 1: What's analyzed what he just said about the blood, Jeff Gentry.

2499
02:35:10,360 --> 02:35:11,440
Speaker 4: So he's exactly right.

2500
02:35:11,440 --> 02:35:14,000
Speaker 20: Those are ninety degree blood stains, indicating that they were

2501
02:35:14,120 --> 02:35:17,400
Speaker 20: created when somebody is standing upright and bleeding. What I

2502
02:35:17,480 --> 02:35:20,520
Speaker 20: don't see, though, is any evidence that she was on

2503
02:35:20,560 --> 02:35:23,920
Speaker 20: the ground struggling at any point. So if she did

2504
02:35:24,000 --> 02:35:26,560
Speaker 20: fall and was injured in some way, I don't see

2505
02:35:26,560 --> 02:35:30,360
Speaker 20: any They're called transfer stains, and they look completely different

2506
02:35:30,400 --> 02:35:32,560
Speaker 20: than the ninety degree blood drops or the stains that

2507
02:35:32,600 --> 02:35:35,400
Speaker 20: you see there. And if she was on the ground

2508
02:35:35,600 --> 02:35:39,240
Speaker 20: actively bleeding and trying to support herself, trying to push

2509
02:35:39,280 --> 02:35:42,800
Speaker 20: herself back up. You would see evidence of blood transfer

2510
02:35:42,879 --> 02:35:45,400
Speaker 20: on the ground. You would see contact stains on the wall,

2511
02:35:45,480 --> 02:35:49,600
Speaker 20: maybe where she was trying to reposition herself. He's exactly

2512
02:35:49,680 --> 02:35:53,240
Speaker 20: right that the debris is on top of the blood stains,

2513
02:35:53,280 --> 02:35:55,879
Speaker 20: so that gives you an element of timing. But I

2514
02:35:55,920 --> 02:35:58,520
Speaker 20: do know that the weather there in that area is

2515
02:35:58,520 --> 02:36:01,640
Speaker 20: told that it was. It's rather indy on a regular basis,

2516
02:36:01,680 --> 02:36:05,600
Speaker 20: and so it's not uncommon for things to blow onto

2517
02:36:05,640 --> 02:36:10,160
Speaker 20: the porch. So it's possible that those debris items.

2518
02:36:09,840 --> 02:36:14,800
Speaker 1: Were but gravel. I don't say wind blowing rocks or gravel,

2519
02:36:15,280 --> 02:36:18,480
Speaker 1: little pieces of gravel. I don't see that. Maybe a leaf.

2520
02:36:19,560 --> 02:36:23,240
Speaker 1: So what is your analysis about it? He's saying debris.

2521
02:36:23,280 --> 02:36:25,959
Speaker 1: It looks like the gravel that was beside the ornamental

2522
02:36:26,000 --> 02:36:27,879
Speaker 1: gravel that was beside the wallway.

2523
02:36:27,480 --> 02:36:27,959
Speaker 5: There's an era.

2524
02:36:28,120 --> 02:36:31,560
Speaker 20: So if you look two bricks out from the wall

2525
02:36:31,760 --> 02:36:34,360
Speaker 20: or two tiles out from the wall, there's an area

2526
02:36:34,480 --> 02:36:38,000
Speaker 20: where there's multiple blood drops and then little tiny individual

2527
02:36:38,080 --> 02:36:40,840
Speaker 20: satellite stains. And I talked about this the other day.

2528
02:36:40,840 --> 02:36:43,560
Speaker 20: That's it's called a blood into blood pattern or a

2529
02:36:43,640 --> 02:36:47,920
Speaker 20: drip pattern, and that's where somebody is stationary and the

2530
02:36:47,959 --> 02:36:50,920
Speaker 20: blood dripping into the blood source or the blood pool

2531
02:36:51,200 --> 02:36:55,120
Speaker 20: creates those little satellite stains. So that's that's going to

2532
02:36:55,200 --> 02:36:57,360
Speaker 20: indicate that she was standing in that position for some

2533
02:36:57,400 --> 02:36:59,560
Speaker 20: period of time, dripping blood onto the ground, so actively

2534
02:36:59,640 --> 02:37:02,039
Speaker 20: dripping food on the ground. And then next to that,

2535
02:37:02,160 --> 02:37:04,680
Speaker 20: coming out one tile, you see what looks like possibly

2536
02:37:04,680 --> 02:37:08,800
Speaker 20: a footwear pattern in that. So whoever was assisting her

2537
02:37:09,200 --> 02:37:10,840
Speaker 20: or if she was wearing shoes, we'll.

2538
02:37:10,720 --> 02:37:12,880
Speaker 1: Hold on, where do you see a footwear pattern?

2539
02:37:13,000 --> 02:37:17,199
Speaker 20: A third tile out from the wall, there's several dripstains

2540
02:37:17,200 --> 02:37:21,040
Speaker 20: and then what looks like a footwear impression there or

2541
02:37:21,080 --> 02:37:22,280
Speaker 20: a partial footwear impression.

2542
02:37:22,840 --> 02:37:26,600
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Gentry, what do you make of the gravel disruption?

2543
02:37:27,040 --> 02:37:30,560
Speaker 20: That could definitely be somebody walking through it or kicking it,

2544
02:37:30,879 --> 02:37:33,400
Speaker 20: or like your other guest said, you know, if she

2545
02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:35,959
Speaker 20: was struggling in some way or maybe even trying to

2546
02:37:35,959 --> 02:37:40,800
Speaker 20: get away, that's definitely possible that the gravel was disturbed

2547
02:37:40,840 --> 02:37:42,640
Speaker 20: there or where they were trying to help her up

2548
02:37:42,760 --> 02:37:45,520
Speaker 20: if she fell, or if she was injured or trying

2549
02:37:45,560 --> 02:37:48,440
Speaker 20: to resist in any way. But if she was on

2550
02:37:48,480 --> 02:37:52,480
Speaker 20: the ground actively bleeding. You would see different blood patterns

2551
02:37:52,480 --> 02:37:54,959
Speaker 20: to indicate that. I don't see anything that to me

2552
02:37:55,040 --> 02:37:56,480
Speaker 20: would suggest that she was.

2553
02:37:56,640 --> 02:37:58,640
Speaker 1: You know what it indicates to me. Just go with

2554
02:37:58,680 --> 02:38:00,959
Speaker 1: me for a moment. Pull back if you don't mind.

2555
02:38:00,959 --> 02:38:02,879
Speaker 1: On the picture. I want to see the picture at

2556
02:38:02,920 --> 02:38:06,039
Speaker 1: a greater distance. It looks to me like somebody's walking

2557
02:38:06,080 --> 02:38:09,280
Speaker 1: beside her and maybe trying to hold her up, and

2558
02:38:09,320 --> 02:38:13,280
Speaker 1: they've gotten into the gravel. The gravel is to our right.

2559
02:38:13,520 --> 02:38:17,480
Speaker 1: It would be her left holding her maybe under the arm,

2560
02:38:18,000 --> 02:38:20,920
Speaker 1: and she's walking forward and somebody is on her left

2561
02:38:21,240 --> 02:38:26,199
Speaker 1: in that gravel. We know her cane was in the home,

2562
02:38:26,680 --> 02:38:31,920
Speaker 1: so she needs help walking. According to Jeffrey Gentry, who's

2563
02:38:31,959 --> 02:38:36,320
Speaker 1: a blood spatter analyst, she's upright and walking based on

2564
02:38:36,400 --> 02:38:41,879
Speaker 1: the blood spatter, so we know at least one person,

2565
02:38:42,000 --> 02:38:45,160
Speaker 1: if we're reading this correctly, it's helping her out the

2566
02:38:45,200 --> 02:38:50,480
Speaker 1: front door. Are there to people another question? Let me

2567
02:38:50,520 --> 02:38:53,520
Speaker 1: throw it everyone on the panel. I've gotten a lot

2568
02:38:53,600 --> 02:38:59,840
Speaker 1: of questions on social about her pacemaker, and yes, I

2569
02:39:00,080 --> 02:39:02,480
Speaker 1: had thought about it. I researched it, I spoke to

2570
02:39:02,520 --> 02:39:06,600
Speaker 1: a doctor. There's no GPS in a pacemaker. That's the

2571
02:39:06,640 --> 02:39:09,200
Speaker 1: way I understand it, so we're not going to find her.

2572
02:39:09,320 --> 02:39:15,360
Speaker 1: Somebody even on Twitter tweeted me the novel idea of

2573
02:39:15,640 --> 02:39:19,160
Speaker 1: putting her phone, which was in the home, onto a

2574
02:39:19,240 --> 02:39:23,039
Speaker 1: dog and letting the dog with a handler go through

2575
02:39:23,040 --> 02:39:28,000
Speaker 1: the area and see if the pacemaker alerted. That would

2576
02:39:28,000 --> 02:39:32,000
Speaker 1: be a very rudimentary experiment. It probably would not work.

2577
02:39:32,040 --> 02:39:37,120
Speaker 1: With the point is well taken. Is there a way

2578
02:39:37,200 --> 02:39:40,960
Speaker 1: to track that pacemaker? Does anybody have an idea? Because

2579
02:39:41,000 --> 02:39:43,080
Speaker 1: what I've been told the answer.

2580
02:39:42,800 --> 02:39:44,480
Speaker 4: Is no, there's probably not.

2581
02:39:46,160 --> 02:39:48,720
Speaker 20: I dealt with pacemakers a lot because during the death

2582
02:39:48,720 --> 02:39:52,680
Speaker 20: investigations you have to remove people's pacemakers to have them

2583
02:39:52,800 --> 02:39:55,480
Speaker 20: analyzed so the doctor can do it in the office.

2584
02:39:55,480 --> 02:39:57,920
Speaker 20: But when somebody is deceased, obviously you don't take them

2585
02:39:57,959 --> 02:40:00,480
Speaker 20: to a doctor's office, so you remove their pace maker

2586
02:40:00,800 --> 02:40:03,959
Speaker 20: to have it analyzed. But in her case, it sounds

2587
02:40:04,000 --> 02:40:07,240
Speaker 20: like it's still working and could possibly connect if her

2588
02:40:07,560 --> 02:40:09,879
Speaker 20: device is close enough. But I think it has to

2589
02:40:09,920 --> 02:40:13,440
Speaker 20: be within several feed or a pretty close distance to

2590
02:40:14,160 --> 02:40:17,240
Speaker 20: her and the pacemaker to get any reliable information from it.

2591
02:40:17,480 --> 02:40:20,920
Speaker 1: Well, the other thing is, as I understand it, the

2592
02:40:21,000 --> 02:40:25,560
Speaker 1: pacemaker feeds information back to let's say the doctor's office

2593
02:40:25,959 --> 02:40:30,960
Speaker 1: or the clinic, or the pacemaker administrator. But you have

2594
02:40:31,080 --> 02:40:36,600
Speaker 1: to be near the device. The pacemaker doesn't send it

2595
02:40:36,720 --> 02:40:41,160
Speaker 1: out across the airwaves. You've got to be near the device,

2596
02:40:41,280 --> 02:40:43,480
Speaker 1: like her device would be at home or it would

2597
02:40:43,480 --> 02:40:48,840
Speaker 1: be her iPhone that would count. The pacemaker in no

2598
02:40:49,000 --> 02:40:54,119
Speaker 1: way is able at this juncture to send information about her,

2599
02:40:54,400 --> 02:40:56,520
Speaker 1: whether she's had a heart event or where she is

2600
02:40:57,520 --> 02:41:00,959
Speaker 1: now that she's away from the Bluetooth at the home

2601
02:41:01,520 --> 02:41:06,280
Speaker 1: cannot trace her through that. Does a pacemaker continue to

2602
02:41:06,400 --> 02:41:10,160
Speaker 1: work post mortem? Anybody knows?

2603
02:41:10,240 --> 02:41:15,840
Speaker 19: Yes, yes, And they're designed Nancy for to report once

2604
02:41:15,879 --> 02:41:19,520
Speaker 19: a day to the doctor's office. Typically, I mean the

2605
02:41:19,560 --> 02:41:24,039
Speaker 19: scheduling could be a variance based on the patient's history. However,

2606
02:41:25,200 --> 02:41:28,800
Speaker 19: they typically have to be near that device I either

2607
02:41:28,879 --> 02:41:32,279
Speaker 19: phone or an Apple watch or something to that effect.

2608
02:41:32,320 --> 02:41:35,240
Speaker 19: And of course now we know at least she was

2609
02:41:35,360 --> 02:41:39,680
Speaker 19: separated from that device around two twenty seven am or

2610
02:41:39,680 --> 02:41:44,080
Speaker 19: to twenty eight am, so she could still that pacemaker

2611
02:41:44,320 --> 02:41:48,160
Speaker 19: could still be functioning, but it's not reporting, so she

2612
02:41:48,720 --> 02:41:50,680
Speaker 19: very much could be alive.

2613
02:41:51,320 --> 02:41:55,200
Speaker 1: So Todd Shipley, you're telling me license plate reader's cell

2614
02:41:55,320 --> 02:42:02,959
Speaker 1: phone data dumps Obviously cameras at red lights for those

2615
02:42:03,000 --> 02:42:06,600
Speaker 1: early morning hours when there's less traffic. Any other old

2616
02:42:06,720 --> 02:42:10,160
Speaker 1: polygraphs on everybody, and if you're not willing to take

2617
02:42:10,160 --> 02:42:13,440
Speaker 1: a polygraph to Hay with you, you're now on the suspect list.

2618
02:42:13,800 --> 02:42:15,240
Speaker 1: Am I missing anything? Shipley?

2619
02:42:15,560 --> 02:42:18,960
Speaker 17: Well, the cameras are going to tell a story. Whether

2620
02:42:19,000 --> 02:42:20,680
Speaker 17: it's going to have a complete story, as we know

2621
02:42:21,040 --> 02:42:23,400
Speaker 17: it's probably not, but there are gonna be a lot

2622
02:42:23,400 --> 02:42:26,039
Speaker 17: of information that they're still trying to go through because

2623
02:42:26,040 --> 02:42:28,480
Speaker 17: they're talking hours of data, multiple game.

2624
02:42:28,320 --> 02:42:31,120
Speaker 1: And there were cameras in the home, Todd, there were

2625
02:42:31,240 --> 02:42:34,039
Speaker 1: cameras in the home. Hey, I want you to hear

2626
02:42:34,080 --> 02:42:36,880
Speaker 1: this fact, Dave Mac tell them about the status of

2627
02:42:36,920 --> 02:42:37,800
Speaker 1: the cameras at the home.

2628
02:42:37,920 --> 02:42:40,600
Speaker 5: What we were told, or what has been reported, is

2629
02:42:40,600 --> 02:42:43,800
Speaker 5: that cameras inside the home that were there, and they

2630
02:42:43,800 --> 02:42:46,959
Speaker 5: were placed at different angles to cover all areas inside

2631
02:42:46,959 --> 02:42:49,240
Speaker 5: the home so that they could be checked on by

2632
02:42:49,280 --> 02:42:52,880
Speaker 5: family members in case Nancy were to fall or become incapacitated.

2633
02:42:52,879 --> 02:42:55,879
Speaker 5: They could then see inside the home. It has been

2634
02:42:55,920 --> 02:42:58,959
Speaker 5: reported that, yeah, they didn't pay for the subscription service,

2635
02:42:59,040 --> 02:43:02,720
Speaker 5: and so the cameras didn't record anything other than for

2636
02:43:02,840 --> 02:43:05,280
Speaker 5: eight hours and then it just continued to tape over,

2637
02:43:05,400 --> 02:43:08,480
Speaker 5: so there is nothing saved. By the time the police

2638
02:43:08,520 --> 02:43:10,199
Speaker 5: were involved, you are even gone.

2639
02:43:11,080 --> 02:43:15,600
Speaker 1: Nothing and very quickly. Jeffrey, what is the difference in

2640
02:43:15,640 --> 02:43:19,000
Speaker 1: the wide pattern of blood drops and the tight groupings?

2641
02:43:19,040 --> 02:43:23,360
Speaker 1: Is that where you're saying blood into blood so she's

2642
02:43:23,400 --> 02:43:27,000
Speaker 1: standing in one place? Is that what you're saying? There's

2643
02:43:27,080 --> 02:43:31,959
Speaker 1: droplets and then there's satellite droplets exactly right, Okay, Chris mcdona,

2644
02:43:32,360 --> 02:43:35,600
Speaker 1: other than canine's and if you'll recall Chris mcdona, a

2645
02:43:35,720 --> 02:43:41,000
Speaker 1: canine tracked Lacey Peterson from her home all the way

2646
02:43:41,080 --> 02:43:45,000
Speaker 1: to the San Francisco Bay and she was in the

2647
02:43:45,040 --> 02:43:50,000
Speaker 1: back of a boat we think right just far. So

2648
02:43:50,040 --> 02:43:53,280
Speaker 1: if she could be traced that way, I'm wondering why

2649
02:43:53,320 --> 02:43:57,080
Speaker 1: cadaver dogs can't at least give me a direction in

2650
02:43:57,120 --> 02:43:58,199
Speaker 1: which Nancy went.

2651
02:43:59,520 --> 02:44:03,279
Speaker 19: Well, that's where the US Customs and Border Patrol canine teams,

2652
02:44:03,320 --> 02:44:06,840
Speaker 19: the BORAC team was brought into this because those dogs

2653
02:44:06,879 --> 02:44:10,240
Speaker 19: are trained not only in tracking, but they may also

2654
02:44:10,360 --> 02:44:13,400
Speaker 19: have other dogs that are cross trained into the cadaver aspect.

2655
02:44:13,879 --> 02:44:15,760
Speaker 19: So they're going to put those dogs in a thirty

2656
02:44:15,760 --> 02:44:18,840
Speaker 19: foot lead and they're going to get some type of

2657
02:44:18,920 --> 02:44:23,000
Speaker 19: sense inside of the house that belonged to Nancy, typically

2658
02:44:23,040 --> 02:44:25,840
Speaker 19: a shirt or rag, a shoe, something.

2659
02:44:25,520 --> 02:44:27,879
Speaker 2: Like that, and then they're going to let the dog run.

2660
02:44:27,959 --> 02:44:31,680
Speaker 19: So the fact that those dogs are there, Nancy, they're

2661
02:44:31,720 --> 02:44:35,800
Speaker 19: really stepping it up because those dogs are really super

2662
02:44:35,840 --> 02:44:36,600
Speaker 19: good at what they do.

2663
02:44:36,920 --> 02:44:38,879
Speaker 1: Let me go straight out to you, Dave.

2664
02:44:38,720 --> 02:44:43,440
Speaker 5: Matt Nancy. Earlier today, tuson TV station KOLD received an

2665
02:44:43,440 --> 02:44:46,879
Speaker 5: email having to do with Nancy Guthrie. The FBI is

2666
02:44:46,959 --> 02:44:49,320
Speaker 5: working to confirm if the note came from the same

2667
02:44:49,440 --> 02:44:52,840
Speaker 5: cinder as the first reporter ransom note referencing Nancy Guthrie,

2668
02:44:53,040 --> 02:44:56,080
Speaker 5: and officials caution it could take some time to verify

2669
02:44:56,160 --> 02:44:59,480
Speaker 5: due to technical factors. It still hasn't been verified that

2670
02:44:59,560 --> 02:45:02,480
Speaker 5: the first note came from someone who may have taken

2671
02:45:02,560 --> 02:45:05,920
Speaker 5: Nancy from her home. In a statement, the Pema County

2672
02:45:05,959 --> 02:45:09,959
Speaker 5: Sheriff's Department says the FBI and Pma County Sheriff's Department

2673
02:45:10,000 --> 02:45:13,840
Speaker 5: are aware of a new message regarding Nancy Guthrie. Investigators

2674
02:45:13,840 --> 02:45:16,760
Speaker 5: are actively inspecting the information provided in the message for

2675
02:45:16,800 --> 02:45:20,360
Speaker 5: its authenticity. While this is one new piece of information,

2676
02:45:20,640 --> 02:45:23,560
Speaker 5: the FBI and the Pema County Sheriff's Department are still

2677
02:45:23,640 --> 02:45:26,800
Speaker 5: asking anyone with tips to contact the FBI at one

2678
02:45:26,840 --> 02:45:30,240
Speaker 5: eight hundred call FBI. The FBI continues to offer a

2679
02:45:30,280 --> 02:45:33,360
Speaker 5: reward of up to fifty thousand dollars for information leading

2680
02:45:33,360 --> 02:45:36,199
Speaker 5: to the recovery of Nancy Guthrie and or the arresting

2681
02:45:36,240 --> 02:45:39,760
Speaker 5: conviction of anyone involved in her disappearance and Nancy that's

2682
02:45:39,800 --> 02:45:43,600
Speaker 5: not all. Investigators are back at Nancy Guthrie's house. They

2683
02:45:43,600 --> 02:45:46,760
Speaker 5: are closing down the road and they're moving all media

2684
02:45:46,840 --> 02:45:50,640
Speaker 5: out of the area for what they say are investigative purposes.

2685
02:45:50,879 --> 02:45:55,800
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about missus

2686
02:45:55,840 --> 02:46:01,560
Speaker 1: Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free two two five five

2687
02:46:01,680 --> 02:46:06,039
Speaker 1: three two four. If you wish to remain anonymous five

2688
02:46:06,160 --> 02:46:10,760
Speaker 1: two zero eight eight two seven four sixty three, there's

2689
02:46:10,800 --> 02:46:15,160
Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollars reward five two zero eight eight

2690
02:46:15,240 --> 02:46:21,520
Speaker 1: two seven four six three, And please again tonight join

2691
02:46:21,640 --> 02:46:26,920
Speaker 1: us in prayer for the safe return of Nancy gou Three.

2692
02:46:27,760 --> 02:46:31,360
Speaker 1: Good night, friend,