Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Is the Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com Draft Show, your war room for incenter news
Speaker 1: and trapped analysis from deep within the confines of Cowboys
Speaker 1: headquarters at the Star in Frisco, Dallas, Sets, running back
Speaker 1: and now your hosts David Hellman, Jeff Kavanaugh, Kevin Turner,
Speaker 1: and Kyle Yeoman's. It's a beautiful Thursday in Frisco as
Speaker 1: we're back in the Walling Star State, back in the
Speaker 1: SWBC Mortgage studios, fresh off our trip from Indianapolis, and
Speaker 1: more importantly, we are back with Jeff Cavanaugh and Kevin
Speaker 1: Turner the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. The Boys
Speaker 1: are back in town. David Elman, Kyle Elman's myself as
Speaker 1: we continue to break down the NFL combine and exactly
Speaker 1: what happened out in Indianapolis, how that affected everyone's draft stock,
Speaker 1: and before we really get into the players, Jeff, I've
Speaker 1: got to thank you because last time we were in
Speaker 1: this room, you told me to take layers to Indianapolis.
Speaker 1: I thought you're gonna say you went to the Slippery Noodle.
Speaker 1: Oh we actually did that too. Yeah, so yeah, so
Speaker 1: two things I could thank you for. You're welcome. But
Speaker 1: we went to the slippery Noodle. We also took layers
Speaker 1: and I went back and packed more layers after you
Speaker 1: told me to do that, and I'm so glad that
Speaker 1: I did. It was extremely cold. Yeah, INDI's colder. Do
Speaker 1: you think numbers? We don't register numbers as people who
Speaker 1: live in DFW. You can see whatever numbers you want,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that you're actually gonna like register it.
Speaker 1: Speak entirely for yourself, no, man, Yeah, listen, I have
Speaker 1: a pretty firm grasp on what each temperature feels like.
Speaker 1: I feel. I think, No, man, I don't know what
Speaker 1: you're saying. Okay, I mean even with the temperature that was,
Speaker 1: it was whenever we turned the corner, Dave and you
Speaker 1: were a testament to this as well, when we would
Speaker 1: turn the corner in the downtown street and get he
Speaker 1: once fell in. He once fell down, laughing and refused
Speaker 1: to keep walking. Years ago at the combine, he's telling
Speaker 1: you that he has a weather stuff figured out. This
Speaker 1: dude literally fell on the sidewalk and was giggling and
Speaker 1: get up because he was so cold. That really did happen.
Speaker 1: It was also minus five. There's a huge difference between
Speaker 1: minus five and I don't know, it was like seventeen.
Speaker 1: It feels like seven. I'm gonna say it was about
Speaker 1: thirty with a wind chill of seventeen. Yeah, but that
Speaker 1: is a true story. This was in ad I was
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Yeah it was. It was below zero and
Speaker 1: I thought I was going to die in the street.
Speaker 1: A couple of lemonades. Okay, So there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of liquid courage there as well. Sure, Okay, so that
Speaker 1: played a little bit of a factor. Kat, How was
Speaker 1: your week? It was an excellent week. And I gotta admit,
Speaker 1: we're under fifty days until the draft is here. Forty
Speaker 1: nine and then the Combine just told me. You know,
Speaker 1: you watched the Combine and you're like, okay, yeah, it
Speaker 1: reaffirmed some things, but it also told me, oh god,
Speaker 1: I need to go back and watch about forty guys,
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of confusing things that happened at
Speaker 1: the Combine. But I will take thirty degrees in Indianapolis.
Speaker 1: And at the end of February, all day I felt like,
Speaker 1: you guys got lucky. Yeah, it was away. It wasn't
Speaker 1: that bad. But it was also the snow in the
Speaker 1: wind that was the issue. Yeah, I think that was
Speaker 1: the biggest thing. Yet I don't know yet. No, I
Speaker 1: haven't yet. You gotta kept one of those negative one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty six days there in India before you
Speaker 1: know well. And even if I did hit one of
Speaker 1: those days, I was prepared thanks to you, because you
Speaker 1: told me to take extra layers and I did. But
Speaker 1: you mentioned some of the confusing parts of the combine
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out exactly what some of these
Speaker 1: prospects bring to the table. I thought now would be
Speaker 1: a better time than any to go into some stock
Speaker 1: up stock down between some of those players that we
Speaker 1: saw during the combine. Each of us have gone around,
Speaker 1: given two guys that have had their stock risen over
Speaker 1: the week in Indianapolis and two that had their stock
Speaker 1: drop a little bit. And Jeff, we're gonna start with you.
Speaker 1: Let's start with stock up, go around the table, and
Speaker 1: then we'll do stock down here in a moment. Okay,
Speaker 1: did you build graphics? You a graphic building guy? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I sent you three of each, so I made sure
Speaker 1: to make it very confusing. So let me make sure
Speaker 1: that I see which guys I actually got picked here
Speaker 1: and then I'll tell you exactly hood oh oh god, wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: stock up on these two Denzels. Denzel Mims good tape.
Speaker 1: Then after having good tape, he went ahead and tore
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl. Then after tearing up the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 1: he went and tested as an elite athlete. So for
Speaker 1: Denzel Mims, I think that probably took him from I
Speaker 1: don't know. Before the Senior Bowl, people weren't really talking
Speaker 1: like a middle round guy, maybe a fourth, fifth round guy.
Speaker 1: And now there's probably no way he gets out of
Speaker 1: the second So Denzel Mims stock all the way up.
Speaker 1: That's my biggest frustration with Denzel Mims is a guy
Speaker 1: who's the and I admit I'm this guy. I'm the
Speaker 1: guy who if a band gets famous everyone's talking about.
Speaker 1: Everyone's talking about about a TV show like st five
Speaker 1: years after it was at like, oh now that parks
Speaker 1: and records on Netflix, it could be everyone's favorite show.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, I watched it from the beginning. Denzel Mims,
Speaker 1: from the beginning, I had in the second round, so
Speaker 1: so did I. You don't get to take him from
Speaker 1: me just because you liked him, I know, but it's
Speaker 1: just like the whole world's like all of a sudden, Oh,
Speaker 1: Denzel Mims is pretty good, and I'm like, yeah, he
Speaker 1: was good all year, like it happened works, I know,
Speaker 1: and it's still frustrating. You're just now we've been doing
Speaker 1: this for six years. I used to be ahead of people. No,
Speaker 1: I am used to it. It's just that one was
Speaker 1: a strange one because I never saw anything on tape
Speaker 1: that was concerning No, there's nothing there. He single handedly
Speaker 1: get rid of the Baylor stereotype of their wide receivers
Speaker 1: can only do three things like he's just he's awesome,
Speaker 1: and the combine. I didn't know he's gonna blow it
Speaker 1: up that much. Agin he was gonna do really good,
Speaker 1: but I didn't know he's gonna blow it up that much.
Speaker 1: And it's just like such confirmation when there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people whose wide receiver group is Yes, it's crowded.
Speaker 1: I understand that. I get that, but he has held
Speaker 1: his own. Did you write in your notes when you
Speaker 1: were watching mems this guy is an elite, elite, elite athlete. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know what I wrote, Probably
Speaker 1: not didn't write down, Oh no, and he's the best
Speaker 1: athlete ever. And then he went to the combine, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's the best athlete every Yeah, he ran a top
Speaker 1: five forty. People who don't like the combine like that's
Speaker 1: the trap that people always fall into. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're falling in love with this guy because he ran
Speaker 1: a four four At the comment it's like, no, no,
Speaker 1: but I already liked him. And when a guy who
Speaker 1: looks good on tape goes out and posts those measurables,
Speaker 1: it's just even more confirmation that you're you're sniffing in
Speaker 1: the right direction. And I feel like that's where some
Speaker 1: of the debate has come around the combine, And we
Speaker 1: even talked about this a little last week with Dane saying,
Speaker 1: what is important about the combine It has to be
Speaker 1: supplemental to what you're already watching on film. He can't
Speaker 1: be the only measurement. I think this is a perfect
Speaker 1: example of film looks good and then he tears like
Speaker 1: you said, tears up the Senior Bowl, and then he
Speaker 1: does the same thing for the NFL Combine as well.
Speaker 1: C J. Henderson was the same thing for CJ. Henderson
Speaker 1: I thought it was just confirmation of everything that you
Speaker 1: hoped that. He's you know, six one, he's over two
Speaker 1: hundred pounds, he's running in the four threes, great jumps,
Speaker 1: So you're just partnering great tape with great measurables. You go, Okay, seventeen,
Speaker 1: that works well. CJ. Henderson scares me a little bit,
Speaker 1: and not in a good way. Well, what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say is we I mean we all we all
Speaker 1: like him, right, absolutely? Yes, he's been my cornerback three
Speaker 1: pretty much the whole time. He's six one, two oh four.
Speaker 1: And he goes out and puts that up on tape, which, again,
Speaker 1: like his tape was already good. Oh you're word, he's
Speaker 1: gonna be gone. Yeah. Absolutely, Seventeen. When you do a
Speaker 1: workout like that at that size, on top of already
Speaker 1: being considered one of the two or three best corners
Speaker 1: in the class, that is a money position. That is
Speaker 1: a spot where you know people value cornerback as they should. Well,
Speaker 1: I would tell the top sixteen teams the guy didn't
Speaker 1: really like to tackle. You don't want that guy. He
Speaker 1: didn't really like to tackle. He's you know, he's great
Speaker 1: in coverage. Does anybody care, Well, I want the other
Speaker 1: sixteen teams to Okay, is it cornerback the position that
Speaker 1: you're less worried about tackling than any other position on
Speaker 1: the gladly? And then the other side of my brain
Speaker 1: is going, you go usk Bill Belichick and Nick Sabe
Speaker 1: and two guys that don't really like personally but like,
Speaker 1: but they go, oh yeah, I just draft guys who
Speaker 1: can tackle. You'll be fine guys who can tackle. And
Speaker 1: that's where I always go. I do have to knock
Speaker 1: him for tackling. I do have to knock him. But
Speaker 1: you never see anyone runaway from him. He played in
Speaker 1: top flight competition, and you know what, the interceptions maybe
Speaker 1: you aren't there, you know, Okay, I love it. I'm
Speaker 1: showing highlights even his sacks. They're so gentle. He's like,
Speaker 1: hold on, I don't really want to hit. Just fall
Speaker 1: down for me. Thank you. I've got a highly drafted
Speaker 1: linebacker and a highly paid linebacker now and Jalen Smith
Speaker 1: to go and make those tackles on the outside and
Speaker 1: help out there. So good point. You know. I can
Speaker 1: use those guys. Oh and we may we may address
Speaker 1: the safety position too, so we can get some help
Speaker 1: with the tackling problem, and that was the biggest worry
Speaker 1: for me. Is one just the numbers that he put up,
Speaker 1: I mean a four three, nine forty, the third best
Speaker 1: out of all corners. He was the sixth best vertical.
Speaker 1: And then he was also much taller than he was
Speaker 1: originally listed. I mean he ended up being measured at
Speaker 1: what it was, six foot and three fourths and originally
Speaker 1: he was five eleven off of Florida's measurements. Oh did
Speaker 1: they show seven? They said five eleven? At least that's
Speaker 1: what I had. The first team say they undersold. First
Speaker 1: college to undersell a player. Yeah, a top notch guy,
Speaker 1: a first round town us grown a lot for That's
Speaker 1: what it was. Katie. Who was your stock up? Were
Speaker 1: they trying to get him to stay for another year? Hey,
Speaker 1: if you come back, we'll give you another two inches?
Speaker 1: Um my stock up? I'm pull up my text message here.
Speaker 1: Well I haven't in the graphics everyone, sorry? Uh so,
Speaker 1: oh I have stuck. Oh we stopped, we went down.
Speaker 1: Hold on, let's make it about me, everybody. Let's make
Speaker 1: about seven. Now tell me if you guys are gonna
Speaker 1: kill me for this. Derek Brown, Derek Brown had an
Speaker 1: atrocious workout. Yes, he did to come the three cone
Speaker 1: was the worst defensive lineman three cone. The jumps were bad, Yeah,
Speaker 1: forty was slow. Everything about that workout was bad. His
Speaker 1: tape is awesome. But let me just let me just
Speaker 1: riddle me this entertain me for a second. Are you
Speaker 1: trying you entertained me? First? Are you telling me there's
Speaker 1: no chance that an interior guy who's not a great
Speaker 1: pass rusher and had a terrible workout, you're telling me
Speaker 1: there's no chance that makes it to seventeen. I'm a
Speaker 1: four SAT guy with a terrible workout. It's a run stopper.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go as far as to say
Speaker 1: there's no chance, but I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 1: he'll fall that far because and I think the dreams alive,
Speaker 1: alive but still not like healthy, But I think the
Speaker 1: dreams alive, and I don't know if it's a dream.
Speaker 1: Do you think how many sacks do you would you
Speaker 1: guess Derek Brown will have in an average year somewhere
Speaker 1: between three and eight. Yeah, it's a really that's a
Speaker 1: good range. I mean that is a big range. It's
Speaker 1: a huge range. Can I get you to own by
Speaker 1: like one. Okay, guys, you come team all the time,
Speaker 1: a four to six set guy top ten and if
Speaker 1: it's your team doing it, are you like all right? Yes?
Speaker 1: How good a run player? Is he? Run player? He
Speaker 1: was a game changer of the defensive line, Yes he is.
Speaker 1: It's a good question. So here now, here's here's what
Speaker 1: I think the Snakes Harrison keeps getting flipped for fifth
Speaker 1: round picks. That's what I'm saying. And at the time
Speaker 1: he was one of the best run defenders in the league.
Speaker 1: But we want to take one of the top ten.
Speaker 1: I'm just asking. No, I hear you. That's my secret
Speaker 1: is I just ask opinion? My biggest My biggest question
Speaker 1: is is counseling, Like why did he work out? He
Speaker 1: shouldn't have worked out, like Javon Kinwall. Now the defense
Speaker 1: attackle from South Carolina. Now is a chance to get
Speaker 1: in front of Derek Brown kind of what you're saying here.
Speaker 1: You know what he did. He did not work out.
Speaker 1: That's smart because he knew there was nothing you could
Speaker 1: gain from that, and Derek Brown could have only lost ground.
Speaker 1: He should have worked out, I was I mean, if
Speaker 1: he knew that his numbers were gonna slightly resemble that.
Speaker 1: I don't know why he would either, because it's not like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like he put up numbers where
Speaker 1: you're like, well this isn't great, Like he was the
Speaker 1: worst in in class. He was. He brought up the caboose. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was worst workout, which nold class. But it's it's
Speaker 1: a fascinating conversation because you said, I mean it, he
Speaker 1: doesn't look like that on tape. No, he looks amazing
Speaker 1: on tape against you know, sec caliber talent, chasing guys down,
Speaker 1: beaten blockers, beating double teams. And I just think if
Speaker 1: we would agree tape, Trump's all right, trust the tape
Speaker 1: tape tape is number one. So what I think is that,
Speaker 1: you know, we thought Derek Brown was probably a top
Speaker 1: five pick when the draft cycle started. Now I think
Speaker 1: he's probably more like somewhere between eight and twelve. I
Speaker 1: still don't know if he gets all the way to seventeen.
Speaker 1: Just became in. The quarterbacks, you're gonna go, right, we
Speaker 1: get we get a really good vibe the quarterbacks. You're
Speaker 1: gonna go Chase Young is gonna go four. Offensive tackles
Speaker 1: are going to go up there at least three ot
Speaker 1: before the Cowboys. Isaiah, to me, he's still in that
Speaker 1: group of Chase Young Isaiah Simmons Okuda, I really don't
Speaker 1: think that changes. It wouldn't surprise the second tier guy
Speaker 1: with like a kin Law back there. Well, I mean
Speaker 1: it looks let me push you just because the quarterbacks
Speaker 1: are coming up, But I still think he's in that
Speaker 1: first tier guy with this Now is our team's gonna
Speaker 1: like maybe value kin Law a little more after they
Speaker 1: see kin Laws Pro Day and then maybe that maybe
Speaker 1: things change a little bit. I mean, he is in
Speaker 1: the first percentile Derek Brown in the first percentile of
Speaker 1: three cone drill. But I ain't asking him to rush
Speaker 1: off the edge, but he don't need him to be
Speaker 1: a little flexible. But he's a taking he's a d
Speaker 1: tackle and he specializes against the run like I don't
Speaker 1: know how much bend I need him to have. And
Speaker 1: he doesn't just make plays right there like you see
Speaker 1: him track plays down laterally like this range as a
Speaker 1: defensive tackle. Absolutely, that's what he doesn't look like that
Speaker 1: bad of an athlete on tape, which is why it
Speaker 1: was so shocking to see him post such bad time.
Speaker 1: I guess always go sometimes why I do as I
Speaker 1: go to myke. What was my instant reaction, Not that
Speaker 1: it's always right, it's always to think on him. My
Speaker 1: instant reaction when I saw his numbers were okay, and
Speaker 1: my instant reaction for some other guys when so other
Speaker 1: numbers was oh god, oh no and one, I can't
Speaker 1: go ahead for him, I wasn't concerned for aj epines
Speaker 1: I went, oh god, we can. Epinesta tested himself out
Speaker 1: of the first round. Whoa, that's a big statement. He
Speaker 1: tested himself out of me wanting him in the first
Speaker 1: round seventeen. I think he'll probably goes. He'll go, but
Speaker 1: over five seconds in the forty and seven point three
Speaker 1: in the three cone at two hundred and seventy five pounds.
Speaker 1: I think he played his way into a three four defense.
Speaker 1: I think he played three four end. So maybe a
Speaker 1: team at the back of one wants him. But I
Speaker 1: just I would worry about that athletic profile is an
Speaker 1: outside rusher. And to your point and why it worries
Speaker 1: with him and not with Derek Brown, because it's the
Speaker 1: same thing on tape on tape watching Jinesa, you go,
Speaker 1: oh man, heavy handed stout find his overpowers people to
Speaker 1: the quarterback. But you're no what you're gonna say somewhere,
Speaker 1: can't really turn the corner. Don't see him turn the corner,
Speaker 1: don't see him went outside? And then you test you go, well,
Speaker 1: not really capable of pointing outside. No, that's not a
Speaker 1: first round pass rusher to me, that's so we just
Speaker 1: said the same thing. You acted like crazy. But I
Speaker 1: think he will go I think he'll go there maybe
Speaker 1: and maybe in the put it this way like he's
Speaker 1: not he won't be a top twenty pick. I don't
Speaker 1: think with Aka, you know, I think you can scratch
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for them, but I think
Speaker 1: you can scratch him off the list of possibilities at seventeen?
Speaker 1: What was Tacos three? Want to know? I don't want
Speaker 1: to know. The Cowboys were as bad as a pick
Speaker 1: as it looks now. The Cowboys were picking eleven spots
Speaker 1: behind where they are now. So you're talking about a
Speaker 1: different caliber of prospect too. Tacos three code was seven
Speaker 1: point one seven, you know, oh, no better than the
Speaker 1: three count seven three? Okay, you know DeMarcus Lawrence, Zadarius Smith.
Speaker 1: Those guys ran seven four three count thrill. So it's
Speaker 1: not in all he needs to be trade flowers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it gets combining the numbers with the tape again, the
Speaker 1: tape told you what they were. The tape with the
Speaker 1: Marcus Lawrence told you this guy's getting juice off the edge,
Speaker 1: you know. So like you know what the tape on
Speaker 1: Zadarius Smith back in the day at Kentucky, you didn't
Speaker 1: really necessarily see the strength that he's that he's added
Speaker 1: sure to his game. But that's I think this is
Speaker 1: where the draft becomes real fun, the little games of
Speaker 1: position value, the games of death at the position, because
Speaker 1: that's where Epinessa, to me, stays in the first round.
Speaker 1: Might have got a second round grade on him and
Speaker 1: have the whole time, but I think he ends up
Speaker 1: going in the first round because look, there ain't a
Speaker 1: ton of edge players. Um. I mean, are you excited
Speaker 1: right now about gross Matos that much over Epinessa right now?
Speaker 1: I'm not. I think he would take him over him.
Speaker 1: I think he's got more upside. Are you like excited
Speaker 1: to do that? There? Are you? Like? Well? Hugged down?
Speaker 1: Let's go where maybe you trade back to twenty one,
Speaker 1: Maybe you trade back to twenty five. Be high on
Speaker 1: this edge class as a whole, though, I would feel better.
Speaker 1: I don't think this is a good edge class. I
Speaker 1: don't love Grossmatos, but I would feel better about drafting
Speaker 1: him than Epinessa just because I think there's a better
Speaker 1: chance that he develops into a more explosive player. Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't think Epinessa is going to grow tremendously as
Speaker 1: like that. That's an athlete in the NFL. Well, you
Speaker 1: had an edge rusher that was pretty high on your list,
Speaker 1: stock up your kat Oh, mister Curtis Weaver out of
Speaker 1: Boisey State. Now this one was a weird one, right.
Speaker 1: His numbers were pretty wild. When you look at Curtis Weaver,
Speaker 1: I mean the seven second three cone. I didn't see
Speaker 1: that coming from him if you watch it on tape.
Speaker 1: To me, you didn't really seem turned very much. So
Speaker 1: when he put up that number, I was like, huh
Speaker 1: So to me, that was shocking. Was that shocking to you,
Speaker 1: Jeff Um? Not shocking? I would say I was curious
Speaker 1: with his three connel because he went outside a lot. Well,
Speaker 1: he was also running around terrible offensive was just going around. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he went with a radius around players rather than edging
Speaker 1: and and kind of cutting that off and going around guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just thought he was pretty stiff, and
Speaker 1: I mean you can still be kind of stiff and
Speaker 1: turned the corner a little bit, I guess. But the
Speaker 1: three cone number to be at seven seconds, to me,
Speaker 1: that was a you know, and look, I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is another thing with the edge class being what
Speaker 1: it is. I have so many more questions about who
Speaker 1: Julian Julian o'quire is from Notre Dame. I have so
Speaker 1: many questions about what Kalid Kareem is from Notre Dame. Um.
Speaker 1: I feel pretty good about you know, Jonathan Greener to
Speaker 1: Florida and like the second round. I like him showing
Speaker 1: with Weaver. I feel much better about knowing what he is.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean I'm going out of my mind and draft
Speaker 1: him in the first round or anything. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he's talked himself or got himself in that second
Speaker 1: round territory where maybe he was gonna go on the
Speaker 1: third round. You know. So I thought he did well
Speaker 1: for himself on that three cone drill. And who was
Speaker 1: my other player on the oh, Chase Claypool talking about
Speaker 1: Notre dame guys Okay, on tape, I didn't see a
Speaker 1: guy who was running four four five and when he
Speaker 1: ran that, I was pretty shocked. I was impressive, man,
Speaker 1: I didn't I don't know why I didn't see that coming.
Speaker 1: I mean you look, you could see like the figure
Speaker 1: on you'd see his body and his friend's big. Well,
Speaker 1: like you see his body and his frame and goes,
Speaker 1: it's a big dude. Okay, he's pretty jacked, and then
Speaker 1: you go, what are you rann at four four five?
Speaker 1: And I just didn't see that like on. To me,
Speaker 1: he was a slow player on four four two four
Speaker 1: four two seegeez on tape. To me, he was a
Speaker 1: slow player. I didn't see him out running people on tape.
Speaker 1: I saw him and I was on the outside. He
Speaker 1: was kind of a excuse me. He was kind of
Speaker 1: a just run down the field and we'll throw it
Speaker 1: up to you on little corners and then moved to
Speaker 1: the slot and we'll run you on crossers. I didn't
Speaker 1: see a burner. Um. I think he did this right.
Speaker 1: He did the combine right. Oh yeah, like Derek Brown,
Speaker 1: if you know that you're not gonna do well and something,
Speaker 1: don't do it. So Claypool gets to be a giant winner.
Speaker 1: He's a big guy that ran fast and jumped for
Speaker 1: If he'd ran the shuttles, I bet you it wouldn't
Speaker 1: have gone well. So instead of coming out of the the
Speaker 1: combine saying, Wow, what a great combine, you would going
Speaker 1: oh wow, goodness. Straight line not so much in the agilities,
Speaker 1: but you get to skip all that if you just
Speaker 1: don't do what you're bad at, which that's what I want,
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because you want to use it all
Speaker 1: to put the whole puzzle together. How much does it
Speaker 1: change your opinion of him at all? It doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like it does little. I think the forty time is impressive,
Speaker 1: that lower body explosion is impressive, But I still think
Speaker 1: that he's not a separator. I think too often he's
Speaker 1: a body catcher. Okay, so I could see. But with
Speaker 1: the athletic upside that he just showed you, could you
Speaker 1: take him into two early three? Somebody probably will. Well.
Speaker 1: This is also a conversation that we have last week
Speaker 1: as well, but bringing you guys into it. Tight end
Speaker 1: has been floated around for this guy. I meant on
Speaker 1: my dreams the size of him, and honestly, I thought
Speaker 1: whenever I initially looked at these numbers, I thought of
Speaker 1: a guy that maybe proved that he should be a
Speaker 1: wide receiver. But at the same time, this is not
Speaker 1: a very high, highly touted tight end class, at least
Speaker 1: from a depth perspective. He could be another name that
Speaker 1: you could throw in there and throw it tight end,
Speaker 1: you know, as long as you're not actually asking him
Speaker 1: to play tight end. Yeah that's what. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: really know the difference anymore, because what do you like?
Speaker 1: You can put him on the roster is whichever one
Speaker 1: you want. But if you're talking about playing a detached slot,
Speaker 1: I don't care. What would you rather have him? Or
Speaker 1: Hunter Bryant from Washington's the same? This is the question
Speaker 1: comes and that's where I go. Man, I think I
Speaker 1: think Hunter Bryant's a better player. But his combine was
Speaker 1: a little disappointed, was good. His drops make me nervous.
Speaker 1: I just don't trust Chase Claypool from Notre Dame to
Speaker 1: go get open and that bothers me. But there ain't
Speaker 1: many six four two thirty guys running four four twos. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it was a freakish combine for him. When
Speaker 1: terms of that, that one forty time. Maybe you're putting
Speaker 1: a little two I'm putting a little too much stock
Speaker 1: in his forty time. But Chase Claypool ran a half
Speaker 1: a second faster forty than Hunter Bryant. And the difference,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's Claypools two inches taller and only like
Speaker 1: I don't know, well, Claypool also ten pounds, like a
Speaker 1: better forty than Michael Pittman Junior. Talk about another big
Speaker 1: bodied receiver. Yeah, but Michael Pittman Junior has two hands,
Speaker 1: that's fair, and he can block a little bit. I
Speaker 1: get Claypool is out here running deep balls and catching
Speaker 1: contested balls in his number like jump up over you
Speaker 1: and then like can we please extend and catch the ball? Sorry,
Speaker 1: Chase Claypool. I hope you get drafted real high and
Speaker 1: make all the money. All right, Dave, Yeah, who you
Speaker 1: got for your stock up? Stock ups? One guy, which
Speaker 1: this guy I actually like. He slipped under the radar
Speaker 1: for me, for me personally, probably because he's FCS. I
Speaker 1: like to ignore FCS guys the Cowboys. The Cowboys don't
Speaker 1: draft him. Had a fantastic senior Bowl, looked great out there,
Speaker 1: and he kind of caught our eye a little bit
Speaker 1: at the Senior Bowl. This is really mean. I think
Speaker 1: of Obi Melifonwu from a few years ago, Like everybody's
Speaker 1: just always enamored with the six three safety. I'm not
Speaker 1: comparing their games, sure, but everybody's always enamored with the
Speaker 1: with the superhero action figure safety. Right, Chen looks the
Speaker 1: art and he goes out here on top of looking
Speaker 1: good at the Senior Bowl four four five forty at
Speaker 1: his size six three two twenty a forty one inch vertical,
Speaker 1: he actually outperformed Kyle Dugger in a couple areas of
Speaker 1: the combined workout. I think vertical was the only one
Speaker 1: he didn't out. Yeah, Dugger, absolutely. You know, I'm distrustful
Speaker 1: of guys of fcs. He's coming out of Southern Um,
Speaker 1: Southern Illinois for those of y'all that don't know the
Speaker 1: sulukis so looks good on tape. Of course he does,
Speaker 1: because he's a superior athlete to everybody else. Then he
Speaker 1: goes to the Senior Bowl and plays well against other
Speaker 1: top notch draftable competition. Then he puts this workout on tape,
Speaker 1: and it's I mean, how could you argue that his
Speaker 1: stock isn't going up. It's really impressive. It feels very
Speaker 1: leap of faith for me. These NFL teams are gonna
Speaker 1: think I have one all twenty two game of him
Speaker 1: against North Dakota State, and then there's YouTube games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so can mind that, and then you know the NFL
Speaker 1: teams have everything you know, right, So for me, Jeremy Chindlon,
Speaker 1: this workout and makes me feel much better about this
Speaker 1: guy's gonna go top one hundred. Okay, that makes sense, Okay,
Speaker 1: I get it. I feel like much better about that.
Speaker 1: But it's just hard to know. He had good one
Speaker 1: thing to say about him at two twenty one, which
Speaker 1: he'd added a little bit of weight, and I had
Speaker 1: just two h five or two o eight right around there,
Speaker 1: So you add a little bit of weight. But he
Speaker 1: does appear to be fast enough to have a little range,
Speaker 1: and the few games that we have he's got thirteen
Speaker 1: interceptions in his college career. He had four interceptions last year.
Speaker 1: He's shown the ability to go make plays on the Bowl.
Speaker 1: It's interesting he'd kind of be a free, strong hybrid.
Speaker 1: You normally, if I see a six three, two hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty pound guy, I go, oh, he's just a
Speaker 1: strong safety, but I think he might move well enough
Speaker 1: to play play well. And we saw the Senior Bowl
Speaker 1: he was covering pretty well. No, that's that's my thing
Speaker 1: is you know, you watch him at Southern Illinois and
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, cool, these guys are going to be
Speaker 1: accountants in two years, Like how impressed am I supposed
Speaker 1: to be? But then he plays you practice well, and
Speaker 1: that's always going to catch your eye at the Senior
Speaker 1: Bowl because you're going I mean, you're going against big
Speaker 1: ten sec competition. But then to put those numbers on
Speaker 1: the tape and say, Okay, this isn't just a byproduct
Speaker 1: of him playing inferior competition, like he really does possess
Speaker 1: this athleticism. I'm still terrified by the thought of drafting
Speaker 1: him because I just have inherent biases toward big school guys,
Speaker 1: and so does Will McClay. It seem exactly and that's yeah,
Speaker 1: But you put numbers like that, somebody, somebody's gonna be
Speaker 1: willing to take a chance on you. And that's why
Speaker 1: I think his stock is up well. And I kind
Speaker 1: of want to challenge you on your other stock up
Speaker 1: a little bit. Why guy is his stock up for
Speaker 1: Devin Hamilton out of an Ohio state. He had the
Speaker 1: sixth lowest forty oh he had a sub thirty vertical,
Speaker 1: third worst broad jump out of his position. I think
Speaker 1: as well, it depends on your definition of what stock
Speaker 1: up means, okay, and I mean, how could those numbers
Speaker 1: raise a stock I just want to hear what you
Speaker 1: have to say in because like me personally, I'm looking
Speaker 1: for defensive tackles that I can draft. And you know,
Speaker 1: we talk about Derek Brown, Javon ken Law. Uh, if
Speaker 1: they're not there, that like I'm automatically hun I'm automatically
Speaker 1: hunting for somebody that can find so for him, you know,
Speaker 1: then you're talking about you know, you're talking about him,
Speaker 1: h Ross Blacklock, even like even Blacklock like he performed
Speaker 1: well enough, like he had a better combine. At least
Speaker 1: Blacklock is the classic case of a guy that's seventeen
Speaker 1: is probably too high, but fifty one he'll be gone. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: who's the other guy? Which, yeah, I wanted to avoid
Speaker 1: Mattabek because I know, like he's a guy that we
Speaker 1: talk about a lot. I look at him and I like,
Speaker 1: on top of what I've seen from his tape, which
Speaker 1: I think is surprisingly it's yeah, yeah, strength, all that
Speaker 1: good type of stuff, and probably more of a one
Speaker 1: technique than a pass rusher. Probably I feel I feel
Speaker 1: better drafting him. I don't know. I think at two eighty,
Speaker 1: I think he could sneak him in the top one hundred.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Got and so I like, I
Speaker 1: think it depends on what your definition of stock up is.
Speaker 1: I don't think this guy vaulted himself into the top fifty,
Speaker 1: but I'm hunting for down the line prospects at defensive tackle.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, like this guy. Yeah, his numbers aren't
Speaker 1: super impressive, but it lines up with what I'd be
Speaker 1: willing to do based on what I see on tape. Well,
Speaker 1: when I was intrigued by you choosing him as a
Speaker 1: stock up, because if after the Senior Bowl I would
Speaker 1: have had him as a stock up. I thought he
Speaker 1: looked good at Senior Bowl down in Mobile, but I
Speaker 1: thought that the combine maybe took a little bit of
Speaker 1: a step back in my book, at least by some
Speaker 1: of the measurables. Now that I don't think looks okay.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, just because nobody's pegging him as this,
Speaker 1: you know, top fifty pig. He's to me, he I
Speaker 1: feel like he's probably late third round, early fourth round
Speaker 1: is probably his range borderline day. So are you going
Speaker 1: to reach at eighty two? What do you need you know?
Speaker 1: Or do you get ken Law round at seventeen to do?
Speaker 1: Not to worry about there at seventeen. Man, we just
Speaker 1: said that he wasn't going to be there. I don't
Speaker 1: think he will be. Stop acting like it's impossible. I
Speaker 1: didn't say it was impossible. Okay, really quickly, I'll give
Speaker 1: you my two stock ups. It's one of the guys
Speaker 1: that we've actually talked about quite a bit, Devin DuVernay
Speaker 1: out of Texas fifth best forty of all wide receivers
Speaker 1: with a four three nine. And then I threw Jacob
Speaker 1: Easton up there, and it wasn't because of his measurables.
Speaker 1: You're gonna challenge me here today, I'm not gonna challenge you.
Speaker 1: Just go ahead and come back. I'll just disagree with you.
Speaker 1: Get him back. I thought he threw the ball better
Speaker 1: than almost any other quarterback there, maybe with the exception
Speaker 1: of Justin Herbert. Oh, I thought you disagree, I do disagree, Okay,
Speaker 1: I thought he's got a big arm. For sure, he
Speaker 1: has a huge arm. He's easy for him to throw it.
Speaker 1: Absolute Lynch type tends. Now. Yeah. One thing that did
Speaker 1: read this morning on Jacob Easton that put a little
Speaker 1: asterist on this. Apparently Tom McShay talked about how he
Speaker 1: did not impress teams in his interviews, and apparently in
Speaker 1: the quote from the story that I read, said that
Speaker 1: he quote unquote owned the room and saw that he
Speaker 1: was bigger than what was going on. And I didn't
Speaker 1: like that a whole lot from a quarterback. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like with that, I didn't hear enough details
Speaker 1: of what McShay was saying. So to me, it just
Speaker 1: made me really really angry at media where it's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I heard from an anonymous guy that he
Speaker 1: didn't no no, no, no, no no no no. If we're
Speaker 1: sabotaging character pre draft, tell me who said it and
Speaker 1: what they're talking about. That's at Haskins right now. He's
Speaker 1: not a prospect anymore, but it's still annoying. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: thought he threw the ball well a little bit high there.
Speaker 1: I just think that right, well, he's just the combine
Speaker 1: is meant for guys like him. That's all. He's to
Speaker 1: show off the arm. She is velost. He's probably the
Speaker 1: most naturally gifted quarterback in the class. All right, we
Speaker 1: are Okay, he's got a cannon, didn't wring it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's he's inconsistent his decision making. I don't love
Speaker 1: I'll borrow this line from The Solid Verbal, my favorite
Speaker 1: college football podcast. They call him purple Cutler, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: mind's trust the tape. I'm gonna trust the tape guy.
Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, that's a good one too. Um.
Speaker 1: I just I this this whole Cutler. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: When people when people talk about the underwear Olympics, that's
Speaker 1: what they're talking about. And like if if, if his
Speaker 1: natural ability wants prompts you to draft him in the
Speaker 1: top thirty five, good luck. I just don't see it,
Speaker 1: all right, but I do think it could. I mean,
Speaker 1: it could help his stock because he can go out
Speaker 1: there and show off that he's got to contend on
Speaker 1: and yeah, football on the back foot. I do agree
Speaker 1: with I agree with Devin DuVernay just because in the
Speaker 1: sense that that is a position where the forty yard
Speaker 1: dash really does matter, Like receiver and cornerback, crowded receiver class.
Speaker 1: Anything you can do to distinguish yourself matters. And if
Speaker 1: he can run a sub for forty and somebody's going
Speaker 1: to be intrigued by that speed. We were talking with
Speaker 1: Kat last week and or the week before Indians saying
Speaker 1: that if Devin DuVernay comes out and runs a four four,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be thinking of him a little bit differently
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, absolutely, because the production was nuts last year.
Speaker 1: And yeah, my biggest issues with him is just how
Speaker 1: big canny play. Yeah he's got short arms, things like that,
Speaker 1: but he does catch everything. He finds a way to
Speaker 1: get open. There's a lot to like about him. That's
Speaker 1: just how how much you're reaching for guys like that
Speaker 1: in this wide receiver loaded class. You need him, I
Speaker 1: don't know, do you need him to play big if
Speaker 1: he's always in the slot, doesn't drop anything, which, ironically
Speaker 1: Dane Dane pointed this out last week, like he wasn't
Speaker 1: amazing in the past catching drills at the combine, but
Speaker 1: I will gladly take thirteen games worth of tape over
Speaker 1: one he dropped a pass though? Did he done in
Speaker 1: the catching drills? I guess what Dane's quote was. He
Speaker 1: was fighting the ball. Okay, he just he didn't look natural,
Speaker 1: look and look smooth. But again he thought his way
Speaker 1: to zero drops. Give me, give me thirteen games of
Speaker 1: tape of him looking pretty good doing it over. Whatever
Speaker 1: you think about the combine, I think he only had
Speaker 1: the one drop during his entire career. Torch Daves Tigers, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he did pretty good. Question the question there's who are
Speaker 1: the other wide receivers about considering taking becomes That's that's
Speaker 1: where Crochet well, actually that it's gonna be a question
Speaker 1: we're gonna address Twitter on the twenty coming up here
Speaker 1: in just a minute. Now. It's okay, I like to tease.
Speaker 1: It's a good way. We did some stock ups. We
Speaker 1: didn't get to all of our stockdowns. We'll have to
Speaker 1: do that some other time coming up in the next
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. But when we come back, we'll go
Speaker 1: to Twitter on the twenty. We'll address that wide receiver question.
Speaker 1: Depending on how deep this class is, what do we
Speaker 1: think about taking a wide receiver at seventeen? Those questions
Speaker 1: and more when we return here on the Dallas Cowboys
Speaker 1: dot Com Draft Show, I'm Jay Novachik, former tight end
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Speaker 1: on GWS one course. September twenty nineteen. This is the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show. Thank you from the
Speaker 1: s WBC Mortgage Studios. Jeff kalvan On, Kevin Turner, David
Speaker 1: Helm and Kyle Yeoman's with you here on the Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, as always presented by Miller Lite.
Speaker 1: Time now for some Twitter on the twenty Twitter on
Speaker 1: the Twitter where, of course we go through your fan
Speaker 1: questions via Twitter and answer them the best we can
Speaker 1: here from inside the s TOWBC Mortgage Studios. We've got
Speaker 1: some good questions over the course of the day, and
Speaker 1: Katie and Dave also tweeted it out. Dallas. Smith starts
Speaker 1: us off and he goes, would you rather have Cooper
Speaker 1: and a top corner in the draft or a top
Speaker 1: wide receiver in the draft? And Byron Jones? And why
Speaker 1: the debate that is crippling Cowboys Twitter as we speak.
Speaker 1: I would go Jones, this is a receiver, so we're
Speaker 1: getting we're getting either Cooper or Jones on like a
Speaker 1: five year deal, not a franchise tax correct. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: here's my problem with the question, Dallas, what is a
Speaker 1: top corner in the draft? Because to me, it's Okuda
Speaker 1: and then and then there's a Jars wide receiver. I
Speaker 1: can give you three names. Yeah, so if I can
Speaker 1: have one of those three names, I can't have Occuda.
Speaker 1: So if you'll give me Ceedee Lamb, Jerry Judy, or
Speaker 1: Henry Ruggs and Byron Jones. I'll take that over Amari
Speaker 1: Cooper and whoever your second corner is. So I would
Speaker 1: go Byron Jones and receiver. But you saying that right now,
Speaker 1: it's likely that the second one is more likely having
Speaker 1: Amari Cooper back and then maybe drafting a guy like
Speaker 1: a C. J. Henderson as a corner. Yes, the Cowboys
Speaker 1: are doing this wrong. Correct you're saying, oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm saying I would prioritize Byron over a Mari Wow.
Speaker 1: And I think Amari as a player has more to
Speaker 1: do with wins and losses than Byron does when he's
Speaker 1: healthy and ready to rock. But I also have questions,
Speaker 1: just like Oakland head questions. I don't have questions about
Speaker 1: Byron Jones. I know he's gonna be out there every
Speaker 1: week and he's gonna play really well. And I can
Speaker 1: find a receiver, which is really Huevos to assume when
Speaker 1: this team was lost before Cooper got here. That's the
Speaker 1: thing that and that, like, I don't disagree with anything
Speaker 1: you just said, but I can't let go. I can't
Speaker 1: let go of the fact that I think that Amari
Speaker 1: does have more and more of an impact on wins
Speaker 1: and losses, like if I promised you Jerry Judy or
Speaker 1: Ceedee Lamb even still and like you and me, like
Speaker 1: we're of one mind on this that we love this
Speaker 1: receiver class. We love the idea of drafting one forty burgers.
Speaker 1: I don't like the idea of asking anybody to fill
Speaker 1: in for Marii Cooper and like have to really carry
Speaker 1: that load right away, because as many good receivers have
Speaker 1: coming into the league recently, not very many of them
Speaker 1: hit the ground running. Like that's not a long list
Speaker 1: you think about, you know, recent drafts where you know,
Speaker 1: would you be happy if you took a receiver in
Speaker 1: the first round and he had a Terry McLaurin rookie year?
Speaker 1: Hell yeah? And I think Lamb, I think you could
Speaker 1: do a j Brown over a thousand Deebo Samuel guys,
Speaker 1: it's doable. Debo Debo is not fair because Debo really
Speaker 1: didn't catch. Like that's what I'm saying. Deebo wasn't really
Speaker 1: a guy until like October, and none of these guys
Speaker 1: were that we're talking about. I think you could say
Speaker 1: this Debo, these guys weren't one of the first two
Speaker 1: wide receivers. None of those guys has changed. Zeek some
Speaker 1: open Well, okay, it's it's scares doing that. It scares me,
Speaker 1: is all I'm saying. I think I think they're they're
Speaker 1: terribly uh maybe crippled isn't the word, but maybe a
Speaker 1: little paralyzed by twenty eighteen in their decision to go
Speaker 1: into that season with no true number one wide receiver.
Speaker 1: And I think they don't want to do that again,
Speaker 1: and I think that's going to affect them, not ringing
Speaker 1: Byron Jones back. Now, here's what I do, which is crazy,
Speaker 1: but I sign it also, well, I sign everybody, and
Speaker 1: if I need to do some restructuring of contracts and
Speaker 1: behind it, I'll do that. Anyway, can we talk about
Speaker 1: sign signing every We now know We now know that
Speaker 1: the players will begin voting on the CBA and it's
Speaker 1: they have until a week from today to read four
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty six pages. I mean, that's doable if
Speaker 1: you sit down and concentrate. I'd read the whole thing.
Speaker 1: But if they approve it, like everything we're hearing is
Speaker 1: that the CBA is going to absolutely skyrocket the salary cap.
Speaker 1: So why are they afraid of doing all the deals
Speaker 1: what And the only answer to that is that they
Speaker 1: don't believe in Byron Jones the way that a lot
Speaker 1: of fans and media do well. Mike Nolan's comments his
Speaker 1: first media availability, you know, basically kind of saying, and
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about the guy that can't catch the ball. Basically,
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about the guy that bats the ball down.
Speaker 1: I'm worried about the guy that takes him back for
Speaker 1: something paraphrasing said Byron Jones doesn't get turnovers, right, paraphrasing
Speaker 1: All right, all of Cowboys Nation so stupid. No offense,
Speaker 1: no offense, the offense. So if he got three interceptions
Speaker 1: a year, then he would be, you know, a pretty
Speaker 1: good corner or great corner who now has three interceptions
Speaker 1: a year. Now he's gonna face like six hundred past
Speaker 1: snaps a year. So we're worried about what happens on
Speaker 1: point five percent of the plays at corner and not
Speaker 1: as worried about the ninety nine point five where he's
Speaker 1: one of the five to ten best corners in the league.
Speaker 1: But he didn't have an outcome on point five percent
Speaker 1: of snaps that I would have liked that is that
Speaker 1: is what is being suggested. Yes, awesome. Well, you also
Speaker 1: think about the fact of the Katie brought up the
Speaker 1: point of maybe being scared about not having the number
Speaker 1: one wide receiver. But the way that they got rid
Speaker 1: of that problem is they invested their twenty nineteen first
Speaker 1: round pick. If you let him are Cooper walk and
Speaker 1: you draft a guy at seventeen, that's two straight years
Speaker 1: you're investing that first round pick in a wide receiver. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in an a position you can't. You can't make those
Speaker 1: decisions based on what's already been sunk, right Like it
Speaker 1: would it would suck to let him Ari go. You know,
Speaker 1: you trade. You know, you want five years of production
Speaker 1: out of your first round pick. But like, if you're
Speaker 1: not convinced he's the guy, don't sign him just because pride.
Speaker 1: But that's that's kind of what I'm saying, is prideful
Speaker 1: wise This could be something that the Cowboys are looking
Speaker 1: at in terms of their decision making moving forward. I
Speaker 1: really I'm not saying that's right now, saying that might
Speaker 1: be what's going through their head. I think it's as
Speaker 1: simple as like, which guy gives you the better chance?
Speaker 1: Of impacting a game all on his own, because as
Speaker 1: for all of Amri's duds, we've also seen him turn
Speaker 1: five or six games completely on their ear. The Minnesota
Speaker 1: game stuck out to me this year, and the Philly
Speaker 1: game the year he got here, and I'm honestly yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's got a track record of being able to
Speaker 1: do that. I know he disappears on the road at times.
Speaker 1: I know he's had some iffy moments. He still has
Speaker 1: a much higher chance of doing that than Byron, and
Speaker 1: I think that's what's driving that decision making. Well. It's interesting, though,
Speaker 1: if we're stacking a big board together, you have Rugs,
Speaker 1: you have Jerry Judy, you have Ceedee Lamb, all stacked
Speaker 1: higher than c. J. Henderson or Fulton or Trevon Diggs
Speaker 1: or I still have Jeff Gladen TCU as the second
Speaker 1: cornerback for me. But like you have all those wide
Speaker 1: receivers stacked higher than those And if we're sitting there
Speaker 1: and taking the best player, well that's what we're doing
Speaker 1: at seventeen right now. I'm also waiting on Kin Law.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping Laws that's still plan A for me. But
Speaker 1: let me ask you this Jeffrey, which this is my
Speaker 1: this is my thought process that makes me feel better
Speaker 1: about this whole thing. And I don't know that they
Speaker 1: will because they haven't. But if the Cowboys take the
Speaker 1: savings on the money, they would have spent on Byron
Speaker 1: and invested in a way more meaningful way than what
Speaker 1: we're used to seeing. What's more meaningful than a great corner,
Speaker 1: I mean three or four above average caliber free agent replacements,
Speaker 1: Like not signing Byron enables you to bring back Robert Quinn,
Speaker 1: maybe you could. Theoretically it's Robert Quinn deaf, Carl Joseph
Speaker 1: took my strong safety absolutely and now add one more piece.
Speaker 1: So say, how about I don't know again, this might
Speaker 1: just be that Quinn ten million, Carl Joseph five or six, right,
Speaker 1: sixteen million dollars there it spent. What if I could
Speaker 1: get you like Mike Brocker's at D tackle or something
Speaker 1: silly like that. Yeah, I think that maybe the free
Speaker 1: agency D tackle class is what's kind of pushing me
Speaker 1: away from Kin law Now and Derek Brown because I
Speaker 1: think it's more it's the easiest one to fill. Let's go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think there's twenty good options in free agency, which
Speaker 1: means that the money is going to right up. You're
Speaker 1: gonna have six dudes that our NFL starters, Like hey,
Speaker 1: what did with somebody? And like, yes we will. That's
Speaker 1: my saving grace because I'm like, all right, if you're
Speaker 1: gonna spend that money getting a handful of guys who
Speaker 1: could make the team better, I'll stomach it easier than
Speaker 1: if you're just gonna let him walk and sign. No
Speaker 1: one cares. I should have sold more jerseys Byron. I
Speaker 1: know you're gonna quote another question. We're in too, Kyle
Speaker 1: real quick, but say, does the new head coach matter
Speaker 1: the fact that he's brought in a lot of people?
Speaker 1: Does that matter? Because if you just signed a five
Speaker 1: year contract as a new head coach of a team
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at the depth chart overall, I'm going,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm gonna have to remake this entire
Speaker 1: secondary in two years. Yeah, A, does that make you
Speaker 1: go we should sign Byron or you know, be as mean,
Speaker 1: we need to start drafting dudes because Byron's not gonna
Speaker 1: be here, and then who knows. I also am interested
Speaker 1: in keeping Anthony Brown. I don't know if they're gonna
Speaker 1: do that. I don't know what his gonna be like,
Speaker 1: him being hurt, save the money. You had a chance
Speaker 1: to keep Anthony Brown. I'm highly interested in doing that same,
Speaker 1: but just just I don't know. That's I just can't wait.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what the thirty visit list
Speaker 1: starts to look like, because I just have a hunch
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot of dbs on it. Yeah. Probably.
Speaker 1: And with that being said, you mentioned this name a
Speaker 1: little bit earlier, but he's a part of our next question.
Speaker 1: Javon kin Law. Joe DeMeo asked three scenarios for the
Speaker 1: first two rounds. Pick one. First one is Javon Kinlaw
Speaker 1: South Carolina with Antoine Winfield, junior out of Minnesota, C J.
Speaker 1: Henderson out of Florida, and Justin Metabek the defensive tackle
Speaker 1: from A and M. That's scenario two. Scenario three Javan
Speaker 1: Jason out of LSU, calevonvon excuse me, and then our
Speaker 1: Nett out of Ohio State is third. Easy for me.
Speaker 1: I love all the second round picks. I do too.
Speaker 1: For me, it's number one, me too. It's good Javon Kinlaw.
Speaker 1: It's Antoona Winfield, the safety from Minnesota. That's the to me,
Speaker 1: that's my favorite combination by far, I think one is
Speaker 1: my favorite combination. I'm starting to be intrigued, which is
Speaker 1: funny because he didn't even work out at the combine,
Speaker 1: but could sell me on Jason. Jason, I know he
Speaker 1: scares a lot of people. You could sell me on
Speaker 1: his raw athleticism, just because I think you talk about
Speaker 1: not being thrilled by this edge class like, I think
Speaker 1: he's got the ability to bend the corner and get
Speaker 1: after it, so he's got a chance to be edged two.
Speaker 1: I think I'm just gonna go out on a lemon.
Speaker 1: Say when he's done working out at LSU's pro Day,
Speaker 1: he'll he'll be a top twelve pick, probably rocketing. I
Speaker 1: think so all right, I think that people are going
Speaker 1: to take a chance on his athleticism more than it
Speaker 1: would be good for the Cowboys. I usual for the Cowboys.
Speaker 1: That's how you get can I get into one? Winfield
Speaker 1: is better than Zevir McKinney started. Oh, I've heard that before, though,
Speaker 1: so I don't think that's okay. Maybe I'm not starting it,
Speaker 1: but no, dude, I think Winfield's gonna end up going
Speaker 1: in the first round too, if the safety started going
Speaker 1: earlier than so you're saying, you're saying, my first option,
Speaker 1: first option of this is the more fun one for
Speaker 1: the Cowboys. I think the first pick it's fun and
Speaker 1: just makes a ton of sense, one hundred percent does.
Speaker 1: And then the second one I would believe would probably
Speaker 1: be the most likely. It was what was it Henderson
Speaker 1: and Mattabek. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if Winfield's
Speaker 1: going to be there at fifty one. Neither do I.
Speaker 1: I don't think there's a chance he's there fifty one.
Speaker 1: You might trade up and get him unless none of
Speaker 1: the safeties going in the first round. You know what
Speaker 1: about none of those drafts could happen. Oh, the odds
Speaker 1: that we would nail at that completely are slimth and nuns.
Speaker 1: I would take any one of those though. I would
Speaker 1: take any of those three, would take any one of them.
Speaker 1: I would feel like they did a good job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it'd be nice. Okay, well, hit let's say it one
Speaker 1: more question. This one's gonna be fun. This is from
Speaker 1: Jay Okay Fellas trying to get proactive here after starting
Speaker 1: or after watching the combine. Isaiah Simmons out of Clemson
Speaker 1: is the best athlete that he has seen since Bo Jackson.
Speaker 1: I'd give up seventeen and next year's one if he
Speaker 1: slid to nine or ten? Would you he's the best
Speaker 1: player in the draft. Is that all I have to
Speaker 1: give seventeen next years one? That's unrealistic. We would have
Speaker 1: to give maybe a two. I don't think that's that
Speaker 1: if he slides to take if he's at ten, you
Speaker 1: can do it for seventeen and your second round pick
Speaker 1: that gets you just to ten. That might not be
Speaker 1: realistic because just on the chart it but maybe he
Speaker 1: don't through it here to the chart, that's the thing, right,
Speaker 1: and they should, But I go by captain trade down. Now,
Speaker 1: did Maurice? Okay, what if we always wins through and
Speaker 1: a four? Well, seventeen, a one next year and a four?
Speaker 1: Would you do it still? I think I would? I
Speaker 1: would in a vacuum. This team is in such a
Speaker 1: desperate mode for affordable labor though. Yeah, but they don't. Okay,
Speaker 1: but it's it's a fourth round pick. They're gonna get
Speaker 1: a comp for Beasley probably while five. So you still
Speaker 1: you're not gonna like lose any like You're not gonna
Speaker 1: have fewer picks, you know what I mean, Like you
Speaker 1: have a surfle and have six. Yeah, it's a fourth
Speaker 1: round pick. How am I not gonna have a first
Speaker 1: round pick next year? Are getting? Yeah, that's gonna have
Speaker 1: like two good players on a rookie because you're gonna
Speaker 1: have a guy that can play eight positions on the
Speaker 1: back end of your defense is and he's an absolute
Speaker 1: super free you're normally against type. But I think he's
Speaker 1: gone on. I think he's awesome. That's why Jeff said
Speaker 1: it right. Like affordable assets, I'd go one and two.
Speaker 1: That's it. I'd go this year's one and two Friday
Speaker 1: Simmons and that's it. Can't be taking multiple ones for me.
Speaker 1: Can't be snatching those things for me, especially for a
Speaker 1: guy that's really for this team. A luxury I'll throw in,
Speaker 1: how how would he a luxury where you're gonna be, like, listen,
Speaker 1: I know you're a linebacker, but you're kind of gonna
Speaker 1: be a strong safety. It cost me two ones, but
Speaker 1: I think it'll work fine. You're gonna be like my
Speaker 1: box safety, big nickel slash, occasional slot slash, occasional free
Speaker 1: safety slash, whatever the hell I want. You to be
Speaker 1: if you told me you could undo a contract that's
Speaker 1: already been done for a linebacker, you can't pick him,
Speaker 1: well let's go No, that's fine, like hey, man, because
Speaker 1: they would bring that dude in and that dude would
Speaker 1: be better than both your linebackers and he would not
Speaker 1: replace them. That's what would happen first round picking a
Speaker 1: paid guys. Worry about play you make Jalen a sam
Speaker 1: slash Nickel rusher slash or whatever. Here we going three four?
Speaker 1: He could? We could? What it sounds I'm doing that
Speaker 1: to him. I've got a lot of commercials and well,
Speaker 1: you got a crap on my dreams. Man. So I
Speaker 1: finally found a player that I'm willing to get reckless
Speaker 1: for and you're telling me it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: But everything makes sense for that man, everything makes sense.
Speaker 1: I just think he can play five positions. We're gonna
Speaker 1: fit in. One more question, Kate, you've got forty five seconds?
Speaker 1: All right? All right, this one's Taylor made for you.
Speaker 1: It says, tell me more, Charlie t tight End Portland State. O,
Speaker 1: my god, how you like this guy? So I chose
Speaker 1: this question? You got now the forty seconds? Okay, well,
Speaker 1: he's the Portland State guy, which you just said. He
Speaker 1: pull up my note. Sorry, three solid years or production. Uh.
Speaker 1: I do need to recheck his time, because I was
Speaker 1: not expecting a question about him to ever come up
Speaker 1: again on the Draft show after I brought him up
Speaker 1: the first day. He brought him up day one. Uh man, No, no,
Speaker 1: I just want to find his time. I don't know
Speaker 1: till my time was. Doesn't matter though. What I saw
Speaker 1: is he had a horrible quarterback and college so as
Speaker 1: a struggle sometimes, but he's a big target underneath. I
Speaker 1: had him at sixty three two forty eight four seven five,
Speaker 1: so a pretty decent time. He didn't put up stinking
Speaker 1: albert O numbers, you know, or anything like that. But
Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty good at working back in
Speaker 1: the scramble drill, working his way back to the quarterback.
Speaker 1: Showed good hands, showed the ability to catch with his hands,
Speaker 1: and not a very good blocker, kind of a getting
Speaker 1: the way guy. But I saw someone his deep day
Speaker 1: three value. I had a fifth round grade aut him
Speaker 1: can play anywhere though. Slide seven five out there? Did
Speaker 1: you give me a four seven five? It's my guy, Charlie.
Speaker 1: Here you go Charlie representing, well, we're out of time
Speaker 1: there for Twitter on the twenty. We're almost out of
Speaker 1: time here for the Draft show, but we're gonna take
Speaker 1: a quick break. When we come back. We'll wrap up
Speaker 1: some of our stock downs from the NFL Combine. We'll
Speaker 1: do that when we return here from the Star in Frisco.
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Speaker 1: looking outside at the Ford Center, A beautiful Thursday, another
Speaker 1: great day for the Natlas Cowboys dot Com Draft show.
Speaker 1: Forty nine days until the draft in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Speaker 1: In our final segment here from the SWBC Mortgage Studios,
Speaker 1: and we started this earlier in the show, stock Up
Speaker 1: stock Down. We got through all our stock ups. Jeff
Speaker 1: got his stock down snuck in there, thank you. And
Speaker 1: now we've got to go to Kat who were some
Speaker 1: of your stockdowns from the twenty twenty NFL's County Combat.
Speaker 1: He's a guy who I actually came around on on
Speaker 1: tape and everyone thought highly of him going into this season,
Speaker 1: and then he had a bad year. He had twenty catches,
Speaker 1: but he played for an offense that was a complete
Speaker 1: dumpster fire. But it's Titan Jared Peatney of Vanderbilt. And
Speaker 1: then I get nervous because he looked slow at the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl and then he went and his numbers tell
Speaker 1: you a four nine six forty yard dash. He didn't
Speaker 1: participate in anything else because he's not that great of
Speaker 1: an athlete, and I thought he was better than that
Speaker 1: he was. You know what, we watched him on tape,
Speaker 1: go catch the ball with his hands, go make some
Speaker 1: tough catches. Could be a matchup issue. I did not
Speaker 1: see four nine six coming. I didn't think he was
Speaker 1: going to run that. So Jared Pinckney is now a
Speaker 1: Day three flyer. He is a guy that teams are
Speaker 1: gonna be nervous about. They're gonna wonder if he works hard.
Speaker 1: They're gonna wonder if he's got the ability to stay
Speaker 1: in shape. They're gonna ask questions about dude, or do
Speaker 1: you even care because you just don't see it. Maybe
Speaker 1: he just can't do that, you know, maybe he just
Speaker 1: can't show that athleticism. Get separation. But man, he had
Speaker 1: such a good year in twenty eighteen with fifty catches
Speaker 1: and came into the year, you know was hey, this
Speaker 1: could be a tight end one tight end two tight
Speaker 1: in three type of guy, and he has just disappeared.
Speaker 1: He had a rough combine. I thought he could on tape.
Speaker 1: I thought he could win in one on one situations,
Speaker 1: go track the ball and do things like that. But
Speaker 1: four nine six that's just not gonna work. You're slowing
Speaker 1: down my offense and his twenty eighteen tape was so good.
Speaker 1: It was very good. That's one of the things that's
Speaker 1: so disappointing with Pinckney is that he looked like, at
Speaker 1: least going into his final season with the Commodoreds, is
Speaker 1: that he was going to be a guy to look
Speaker 1: for as a first second day tight end. He shouldn't
Speaker 1: have gone back. If he wouldn't have gone back to
Speaker 1: Vanderbilt and people have gone in the drags last year,
Speaker 1: you know, he's probably gone on first step. Still would
Speaker 1: have had to get time day one day too, still
Speaker 1: had to get time. Yeah. Absolutely, you're such an ass sometimes.
Speaker 1: That's why I listened. They should all hire me. I
Speaker 1: would be like, here's what you've been running. We're not
Speaker 1: running They both about Prodey, We're not run running it
Speaker 1: because that's what everybody's like, Oh, he didn't run the combine,
Speaker 1: but he's gonna run his product. No, if we're gonna
Speaker 1: have bad times, we're running it. Neither. Yeah, but we're
Speaker 1: trying to make money. If you don't have like top
Speaker 1: notch tape, you're gonna run the risk of alienating yourself
Speaker 1: because people expect to see that. I mean, but if
Speaker 1: you don't have top notch tape and you run a
Speaker 1: five flat, what's a team? I thought his tape was good.
Speaker 1: If Pinckney doesn't run, what's a team gonna assume? Worst case?
Speaker 1: Probably better than what he ran. Yeah, yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: his tape was good. Now twenty catches, you go, huh,
Speaker 1: what's going on? But that offense to go off of
Speaker 1: the Lipscomb is a good wide receiver Colladia. Lipscom is
Speaker 1: a good wide receiver who played at Vanderbilt, and he's
Speaker 1: got didn't have it anything like because Sean Vaughn the
Speaker 1: running back. Yeah, it's a good player. That's just a
Speaker 1: It was a bad offense. They had no offensive line.
Speaker 1: They just didn't have a chance. The quarterback wasn't very good,
Speaker 1: And I thought his tape was fine. I'm the ted
Speaker 1: The Senior Bowl was a big red flag. You know,
Speaker 1: it was a big red flag. He just looked slower
Speaker 1: than everyone and then yo, wait he is slower than everyone,
Speaker 1: and maybe he just didn't really see that on tape.
Speaker 1: The other guy who had a stock down on is
Speaker 1: Bradley and Nye defensive end from Utah. Jeff, you like
Speaker 1: a Nye quite a bit. Yeah, this defensive end class
Speaker 1: just keeps getting less and less encouraging that it was
Speaker 1: about Curtis Weaver. He was a stock up guy. Gosh, am,
Speaker 1: I gonna have to put Curtis Weaver ahead of an Eye.
Speaker 1: I had a full round difference going into the combine,
Speaker 1: and we were in the third and nine in the second,
Speaker 1: and now they're kind of neck and neck. Weaver might
Speaker 1: be the better prospect. I mean, I bat terrible three
Speaker 1: cone bad jumps. I mean, if you're gonna be a
Speaker 1: sub two hundred and sixty pound defensive end, you gotta
Speaker 1: be athletic. Which one are these numbers worse? For the
Speaker 1: fact that Bradley and is a defensive end and then
Speaker 1: Jared Pinkney's a tight end and their numbers are similar
Speaker 1: in the fifth or in the forty? Which one? Which
Speaker 1: one is? Are you supposed to run down the field
Speaker 1: and catch the ball? Yeah, that's why works for Pinkney.
Speaker 1: It definitely works for Pinney. I guess with an eye.
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting him to to, you know, tear it
Speaker 1: up or anything. You watch him on tape, you don't
Speaker 1: see that. It was a middle round guy. I was
Speaker 1: hoping seven and a seven one three cone. I go, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, and you start to look at it's it's
Speaker 1: combining all of it and normally don't care too much,
Speaker 1: but like even some of the shuttles and things like that,
Speaker 1: the three cone you take into it, and you know
Speaker 1: his arms, dude, his arms are so small too. And
Speaker 1: a defensive end. I need you to have some linked
Speaker 1: out there. So that's something that really bothers me, with
Speaker 1: the alligator arms out there a defensive end. Dave stock Down,
Speaker 1: this is this is harsh because I actually this is
Speaker 1: one of my favorite guys. We all we all like no, okay,
Speaker 1: but I'm not ready to pull the plug on Cameron Danzler,
Speaker 1: so we like him a lot. Big range cornerback Mississippi State.
Speaker 1: You turn on the tape, he stays with some of
Speaker 1: the best receivers in the game. He gave up and
Speaker 1: you know it sounds like bad. He gave up fifty
Speaker 1: yards and a touchdown to Jamar Chase of LSU compared
Speaker 1: to what Chase did too. You're going to show me
Speaker 1: the other play. I only saw a six yard out
Speaker 1: that he got caught on point. He played really well
Speaker 1: against Jamar Chase. Let's put it that way, Chase had
Speaker 1: fifty yards and touchdown in the game, and he played
Speaker 1: Davante Smith at Alabama really well. He got beat on
Speaker 1: an out and up and that's about it. Everything you
Speaker 1: like in a cornerback until he runs a four sixty
Speaker 1: and again, it's probably the one position where a forty
Speaker 1: yard dash can make or break you. It's a risk,
Speaker 1: it's just a risk thing, but it is very few
Speaker 1: and four. It's interesting though, because again, if you have
Speaker 1: thirteen games of tape of him sticking with SEC caliber receivers,
Speaker 1: how much does a four six forty scare you? Well,
Speaker 1: does he start getting penalized more? Because he's a really physical, yeah,
Speaker 1: all over the field kind of guy. I just I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what I did with him. I had him
Speaker 1: as an early second rounder and now I have him
Speaker 1: at the top of the third round. That's how much
Speaker 1: four six at mid four six scares me. Because I've
Speaker 1: done this before with Tease Taber. I stood on his tape,
Speaker 1: I was like, I believe, I believe in this dude.
Speaker 1: But the fact that he ran a four to seven
Speaker 1: it was over. I can't do it. And so at
Speaker 1: four six four Josh Norman did it for a while
Speaker 1: Richard Sherman's done it. But outside of that, it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm baby and Howard, where can you find him? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very rare. I'm putting a pin in it. Well,
Speaker 1: and I think a big thing is we're not talking
Speaker 1: about him as a first round pick. Yeah we never right,
Speaker 1: I'm putting a pin in it. I'm gonna give him
Speaker 1: a chance to run at his pro day, and he
Speaker 1: came out on Twitter like he was unhappy with his time.
Speaker 1: So he's gonna get back in the lab and if
Speaker 1: he can like get closer to four to six, maybe
Speaker 1: even crack like high four or five, get him at
Speaker 1: get him at thirty. Yeah, yeah, where's Brian to turn
Speaker 1: the clock off at the thirty eight yard line? It
Speaker 1: is legit, Like it's hard to find those guys who
Speaker 1: are casey. Here was another guy who ran really slow,
Speaker 1: like a forty and table day that since into your
Speaker 1: career by any means no, no, And I think his
Speaker 1: tape gives you a little bit of hope, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is something if you can stick with. If you
Speaker 1: can stick with the guys at LSU, you can play cornerback,
Speaker 1: Like those are all pro receivers now. I'm burning that
Speaker 1: pick pick fifty one in the second round, and I'm
Speaker 1: so nervous about that at all. We'll see send that
Speaker 1: to Damon our Nett and then you'd pick dancer the
Speaker 1: next round. Yeah, and just because we're running short on time,
Speaker 1: Jones was your other guy, which I mean, Hamilton's not
Speaker 1: impressive athletically either, but like Benito, Jones brought up the rear,
Speaker 1: like just across the board, and I don't I don't
Speaker 1: believe he even benched, which was like the one thing
Speaker 1: he was probably gonna be good at. I mean, the
Speaker 1: numbers speak for themselves. Senior Bowl, I saw like a
Speaker 1: few plays, a few one on ones, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy's interesting. I turned on the tape and I
Speaker 1: was like, how come he falls on every place? He's
Speaker 1: on the ground a lot. He's a fall down guy,
Speaker 1: I think people. And again we're not talking about first
Speaker 1: and second round picks, but like, if I had to
Speaker 1: peg him going into this, I would have said, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like a fourth round, fifth round guy.
Speaker 1: But I don't feel I feel like I just I'm
Speaker 1: just pushing him even further. Just like if you got
Speaker 1: twelve picks, you can use one of your seves on him.
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling great about it. I've got one of
Speaker 1: those guys in my stock down, a guy who I
Speaker 1: thought may have been a guy you could have looked
Speaker 1: at in a late round scenario. Two stockdowns. kJ Hill,
Speaker 1: wide receiver of Ohio State. I did not think he
Speaker 1: had a good combine. He didn't. I thought he had
Speaker 1: a perfect comb So no, I'm with Kevin. Get him
Speaker 1: in the fourth round. Not explosive, it's not real big. Oh,
Speaker 1: he probably dropped the ball. I'll take him in the
Speaker 1: fourth and then Mitchell Wilcox out of USF. This is
Speaker 1: a tight end that we have not mentioned before. He
Speaker 1: wasn't expected to be a guy to light up the combine,
Speaker 1: and nor did he. He had some pretty poor numbers.
Speaker 1: But he also had the most embarrassing moment of the combine.
Speaker 1: He got hit in the face. Well, he was trying
Speaker 1: to catch his gad, he didn't know which way to
Speaker 1: turn for the first got him right in the side
Speaker 1: of the face. So that is why I said his
Speaker 1: stock went down. I'm really glad we line up on
Speaker 1: kJ Hill because I mean I saw him make people
Speaker 1: look silly all week at the Senior Bowl. I don't
Speaker 1: care if he runs a four six. I'm not drafting
Speaker 1: him in the top one hundred, but start him in
Speaker 1: the scene. He can hang around to the fourth round.
Speaker 1: Let's party. He's Jarvis sladry Um. Say no more family.
Speaker 1: How much like a discount doctor Thunder? You know brand?
Speaker 1: Sign Sign me on you pick one eighteen, let's go.
Speaker 1: Well that is gonna do it. Here for the Dallas
Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft show, wrapping up the NFL combine
Speaker 1: will continue breaking down this twenty twenty NFL Draft. We're
Speaker 1: under fifty days away. Thanks for watching. We'll see you
Speaker 1: next week. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys
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