WEBVTT - The Science Behind Interacting With Brands 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.800 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:13.640 clus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.560 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.200 download Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.680 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, why do people buy 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.159 one product over another? Why do they buy a BMW 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.360 versus a Tesla versus a car maybe from Ford? Or 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:40.880 why do they spend thousands of dollars on a trip 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:44.200 to Disney. Perhaps it's about a connection that they feel 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.800 to a brand of a company. Emblem is an agency 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.879 focused on what's referred to as brand intimacy, that connection 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:55.280 that people have between themselves and brands. Mario Natarelli is 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.520 managing partner at Emblem. Mario this Afternoon joins us on 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:00.840 the phone from New York City. Mario how are you 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.600 good afternoon? Doing great? Thank you? Yeah, thanks for joining us. 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:06.920 We wanted to get you on the program because you've 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.959 got this brand intimacy study for the year two and 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.560 there are a lot of really familiar names on the list. 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.560 But I want to hear how you define brandontimacy and 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.080 why it's so important for companies to consider. Well, I 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.000 thought you did a phenomenal job that, thank you. I 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.640 would add, yeah, I would add that I think of 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.600 it as the emotional science behind the brands that we 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.800 use and love. We know that behavioral scientists have proven 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:34.040 that emotion drives our decisions, but in marketing and in 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:38.640 many other fields, emotion is often under considered. So we've 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.760 been on a twelve of year journey trying to define 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.600 a science and method around measuring that emotion that we 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.800 have with the products that we use and love. Well, 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:54.000 how do you measure that emotion? I would love to know. Yeah. Well, um, 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.520 we started by actually looking at how people bond with 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.000 each other and we found some interesting patterns. And ironically, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.920 we bond with brands much like we do bond with 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.880 each other. It's reciprocal, it's fluid, it's always evolving, and 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.400 the way we measure it is um. Not to get 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.400 overly technical, but we basically use quant and call and 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.079 now we're using social listening as our data sources. And 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.320 we observed to mass at two basic elements. One is 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:22.160 what is the characteristic of the bonds that you're forming, 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.920 and there's six unique patterns to those characteristics. And then 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.280 what's the degree of intensity? Uh, and there's three stages 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.639 of intensity to the way you bond with brand. That 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.480 formula has been evolved and tested and like I said, 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.600 over twelve years we've refined it where we feel like 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.280 it's stabilized now and that we're getting some really rich 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.200 and powerful insights from it. Okay, well, I'm want to 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:44.960 get to some of these names. They're on the list 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.360 because there there's some everything in here is someone is 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.480 something that someone knows. So we got Disney coming in 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.200 at number one, we got Apple at number three, We've 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.440 got Android at number nine, We've got Netflix at number eight, 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.760 Mercedes at number six. I'm kind of bouncing around here 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.919 because I want to focus on number two, which is Tesla. 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.120 And the reason I want to talk Tesla's because earlier 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.160 this week we had a story out in Bloomberg that 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.960 talked about how Elon Musk's antics are starting to get 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.760 to people who have even been you know, the most 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.680 die hard Tesla fans. So how do you how do 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.359 you get to a score of sixty seven point four 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.480 score for number two of Tesla given all the problems 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.400 that Elon Musk has found himself in and all the 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.200 attention that he has. Yeah, great question, And you know, 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.600 most of the questions we've we've received on the study 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.200 have been around Tesla because of the antics of Musque. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:39.600 So this data is um pre dates Tesla's or Musk's 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.600 adventures with Twitter. So we would imagine if we ran 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.320 the data right now that there would probably be some 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.560 performance loss. So the Tesla ranking, I will say, that's 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:52.800 the first time that Tesla has ranked in the top 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:54.800 ten in the twelve years that we've been doing this, 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.400 and it essentially rocketed of the fan of the findings. 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.760 This is a brand that's really hitting on all cylinders 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.920 from a brand performance perspective. You know, people that drive Testa's, 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.000 if you know any really love their Testlas. You see 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.240 it in the language that they're using, and you see 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.720 it in the performance um today. Now, like I said, Uh, 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.960 how much damage has been created in the last let's 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.320 say three to four months. It would be interesting to see. 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.520 I would suspect that it has fallen. Yeah, yeah, I 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:27.400 mean Tesla and Musk. I mean such a polarizing sort 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.160 of figure there. But let's talk about number one Disney, 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.360 and I mean when I think about the emotions attached 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.680 to Disney films, to the Disney parks, that seems to 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.839 make a lot of sense to me. Mario, Yeah, this 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.680 is um. What's great about brands that do very well 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.440 year over years that they generally do well across their 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.400 entire portfolio, So whether it's about retail or in their case, 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:54.920 content or their theme parks, um, etcetera. Brandon Apple is 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.359 another one that does very well across all demographics and 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.440 across all channels. What's interesting about the ask me is 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.440 it also is benefiting from the effects of the pandemic. 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:07.520 So the more we were looking for powerful stories to 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.680 uplift us or uh, to drive us to a more 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.880 positive outlook, Disney sort of I think gained in terms 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.600 of that appreciation. As the world also opened and the 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:21.560 theme parks open, people were eager to take their families places, 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.360 and I think Disney also again um benefited from that 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.440 positive trend. Mario, we only have thirty seconds left. But 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.320 what advice would you give the companies that are not 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.840 high on the list that want to get there? Well, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.520 this is the reason we do the study. We think 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.880 there's uh boodles of findings and interesting things that you 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.679 can take from the study. Ultimately, if you think about 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.719 your stakeholders, all of them internal and external, and the 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.640 bonds that you're forming with them, you know, really try 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.520 to nurture them and invest in them and maintain them 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.280 over time. It sounds easy, it's not. It takes dedication 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:56.760 and perseverance. All right, we gotta leave it there, Mario. 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.919 Not a rally managing partner at Emblem, it's an agent 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.120 see that focuses on brand intimacy. They've got this brand 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.400 new brand intimacy study out. Mario, really appreciate you've taken 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.280 the time. He joins us on the phone from New 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:13.320 York City. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:17.920 and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.960 as I mentioned, we've got Mr Laney Agafa Poulu in 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.960 the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. She's personal finance reporter for 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.640 Bloomberg News. The reason we've got her in here is 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.479 because she's got a Bloomberg exclusive out today. It's about 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.400 a sneaker head who allegedly operated a massive air Jordan's 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.919 Ponzi scheme. Missy, it's great to have you back with 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.680 us on Bloomberg Business Week. How does a Ponzi scheme 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.679 work when we're talking about shoes and not stocks and bonds. 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.279 That is a great question. And I know you mentioned 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:45.880 stocks and bonds, So I feel like we should try 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.520 to explain to anyone listening why we're talking about sneakers 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.120 right now. And I think the reason is this became 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.960 a massive asset class that all the people started trading 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.240 during the pandemic. A lot of people were at home, 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.200 they had nothing to do. If they could get their 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.680 hands on sneakers whose price would go up uh later on, 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:06.920 you know in the year, they could buy them, sell 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.000 them for higher make money off of it. So a 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:10.840 lot of people sitting at home with you know, those 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:15.640 um COVID checks, Stimmy's ready to spend money. We're really 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:17.920 trying to find ways to get access to these really 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.640 highly coveted sneakers, and this company in Oregon, Zade Kicks, 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:26.360 promised them what their dream scenario could be access to 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.400 these sneakers that were extremely hard to get, like you 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.040 would have to wait in line to get them in 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.920 normal stores or pay for them in the resale market 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.000 for like hundreds of hundreds of dollars for what they 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.840 go for. So they'd offer these sneakers at a discounted price, um, 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.240 a few weeks after they were dropping. And so what 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:49.960 this man did is essentially sell shoes that he didn't have, 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.440 and so these customers started buying up these shoes. There's 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.800 a great example in the indictment from the federal government 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.559 about how he sold six hundred thousand pairs of Nike 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.800 Air door in but he only had six thousand pairs 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:05.320 in stock. This is what prosecutors are alleging, right, this 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.240 is what prosecutors are alleging. He's actually showing up an 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:11.480 Oregan court as we speak, Um, he is going to 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.440 plead not guilty to sort of running this scam of 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.080 an operation. Who you know a lot of it sort 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.640 of comes back to the pandemic again, because what federal 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.520 authorities are saying is this guy has been around since 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.280 he has been running this business where he's selling shoes. 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.080 When things went really south was during the pandemic again, 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.400 because he saw this surge of demand from people wanting 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.240 access to these sneakers um and I think he started 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.280 taking orders without necessarily realizing that he would never actually 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.160 be able to get these orders to people. And so 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.440 we have a lot of victims on the record saying 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.000 that they've lost thousands of dollars by sneakers that they 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.320 put money in for but never arrived. And how did 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:53.600 this unravel? What led authorities to this sneaker ponzi scheme 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:57.080 as it appears to be so, I think that authorities 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:02.600 had seen this happened, they were monitoring the situation. What 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.440 the lawyers for the man behind the company told us 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.880 is that he actually turned himself into authorities back in 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.600 May because he realized that everything had gotten out of 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.719 control and he owed so much money to people that 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.360 he couldn't really pull back, and so the you know, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.600 he essentially turned himself in and surrendered and dissolved his company. 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:21.719 And now he's going through the bankruptcy process where he's 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.840 trying to essentially get people's money back to them. But 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:27.600 of course we all know that, you know, there's people 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.000 here who might never really get their money back. Okay, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.000 so what's this guy like. We're talking about someone you 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:38.280 describe as a Lamborghini loving sneaker head. What's he like? Yeah, 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:42.000 so again, sold a ton of sneakers that he didn't have. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.800 Back to that example of the six hundred thousand Nike 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.000 Air Jordan's that he sold. Um, he made seventy millions 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.920 off of that, and according to the indictment, federal authorities 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.920 state that he was spending it on really expensive cars Lamborghini's, Porchet's, 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.880 Mercedes Ferraris, but also all of the luxury goods that's 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.160 one can imagine, like Louis Betton purses fors jewelry and 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.120 watches that caused up to six thousand dollars UM. And 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.040 what's also very interesting is he did not keep that quiet. 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.240 I mean, if you look at his social media, his 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.880 Instagram was, you know, full of evidence that this guy 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:20.160 was living a very lavish lifestyle, assuming you know, from 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.160 the sort of profits he can make out of this 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.640 out of this company. And of course, like you said, 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.160 he's an appearing in court as we speak. But what 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:31.400 is he exactly being charged with and what could a 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:36.120 possible sentence look like? So he's UM being charged with 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:39.720 wire fraud, conspiracy to commit bank fraud because he also 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.400 UM provided a lot of false statements to banks to 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.760 get funding that UM we're based on falsified information and 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.080 also money laundering. And so he's facing as much as 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.040 thirty years if convicted UM on the most serious count, 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.400 which again is conspiracy to commit bank fraud. All right, 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.640 we got thirty seconds left, Missy. What are customers you 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.000 spoke you're saying? I mean, I think this is what's 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.679 really interesting about this story is like they made a 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.280 lot of money from this company because they were still 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.800 able to get some sneakers flip them and really just 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.840 double and triple their investments. But I do think a 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.280 lot of them are facing like hundreds of thousands of 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.560 credit card debt because that is where they would charge 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:20.840 these sneakers is across level of credit cards. And what 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:22.520 they're doing is they're trying to go to credit card 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.320 companies and essentially file chargeback claims to get some of 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.680 their money back. Some of them are succeeding, some of 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.880 them are not UM, but all in all just all 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:31.720 of them sort of looking at this trial and hoping 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.800 to see something positive come out of it. Mr Lanny Gaffapulu, 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.240 personal finance reporter for Bloomberg News. This is an exclusive story. 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.240 It's on the Bloomberg Terminal and at Bloomberg dot Com. 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.199 It's about a sneaker head allegedly operating a massive air 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.360 Jordan Ponzi scheme. Be sure to check it out. This 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.360 is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:55.719 Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Katie Greifeld and I 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:57.560 have been in here chatting about what it's like to 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.760 be a manager. And you know what, spoiler alert, neither 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.800 of us are managers. Know somehow, I'm not in charge 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.560 of a single person other than myself. It's probably a 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.640 good thing for both of us. I know, it's a 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.120 lot of work. It's really interesting because it's something that 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.040 Julie Jaal writes about. She's the co founder of In 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:16.920 Spirit and also the author of the new book The 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.439 Making of a Manager, What to Do When Everyone looks 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.080 to You. Julie joins us this afternoon from the Bay 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.800 Area out west. Julie, how are you I'm doing great. 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.640 How are you all doing. We're doing well. Thanks. Um. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.920 Take us back to your mid twenties and when you 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.000 got this promotion and you became a manager. That is 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:39.400 sort of the genesis of this book. So I was 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.000 years old. I had just joined a scrappy startup three 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:47.679 years prior. It was a little college social networking at 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:54.520 the time. Facebook heard of it multily for me, you know, 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.880 to start ups grew and grew, and so within a 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.439 couple of years we had added a lot more people, 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.960 and so I was one of the early people there. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.280 One day, my manager turned to me and said, you know, 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:06.600 we have four new designers joining next week, and I 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:08.800 don't have time to meet with them. Why don't you 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.960 be their manager? And at this point, you know, I 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.360 had no training at this about how to lead, how 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.239 to manage. But yet I found myself in this situation 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.360 needing to ramp up new people and help our team grow. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.520 And this is a very common story in Silicon Valley 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.480 or in any context where a small team starts to 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.360 take on bigger and bigger goals. Uh. And that is 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.720 how I found myself in that role. Um, without that preparation, 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.920 I made every single mistake in the book about learning 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.359 how it is to manage and lead people, And ultimately, 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.199 some years later I decided to write all that down 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.280 and um hopefully make it seem like I'm having a 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.160 coffee chat with somebody else finding themselves in that situation. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.440 And so, I mean, if you could go back in 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.320 time and talk to younger Julie Newly in that situation, 0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.760 what would you say? What would be the main bullet 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:05.120 point there? The most important thing I would tell somebody 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.360 in that situation here is what the job of a 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.920 manager is. Because here's the thing. We grow up, we 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.240 watch movies. We have a sense of like, what does 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.480 the boss do right? And we think about the boss 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.040 as the person who makes decisions, the person who hires 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.920 and fires people, the person who gets to tell everyone 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.240 else you know, what's right and how things go. And 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.280 the reality is, in my experience, like, that's not really 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.200 what great managers do. So the first thing I wanted 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.360 from to understand is what exactly is the job of management? 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:37.040 And very simply I define it as the manager's job 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.040 is to help a group of people be able to 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.520 achieve more together. So how do they do that right? 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.760 How do they actually get a group of talented people 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.360 to achieve more together. There are three main levels that 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.880 a manager has. The first is people. You know, you 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.360 need to bring in talented people who have the skills 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.240 to be able to do what the group wants to 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.840 do together. The second is process us. So do you 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.200 have all of these great people okay? How should they 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:05.400 work together? You know? How do they come up with 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.880 new ideas? How do they resolve disagreement? Who should do what? 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.840 You know? How does their work get divided? And finally, purpose, 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.360 which is defining what does success look like for this 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.320 group of people? How do we know what a good 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:20.800 job is? How do we know what a great job is? 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.280 How do we know what a mediocre job is? All 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.760 that has to be shared in terms of all of 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.840 the members on the team in order for this to 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.720 two team to go on and do great things. I'm 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.520 wondering about people who may not be managers yet and 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.160 may not even aspire to be managers. And how you know, 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.720 we talked about this idea of managing up and the 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.080 idea of working with your bosses in a way that 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:47.760 is productive. What advice do you have for people in 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:52.200 those situations? The most important advice I have for somebody 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.680 when they think about managing up is make sure you 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.880 know these two things. Make sure that your manager knows 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:04.280 what you aspire for, what your goals. Goals are in 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.880 your career. Do you want to get a promotion, do 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:08.440 you want to manage when did? Do you want to 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.040 take on big projects? Or or you know, are you 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.000 very happy doing what you're doing? You know what kind 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.080 of projects are you excited to take on? What kind 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.600 of challenges are meaningful, and what kind of things you 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.880 hate doing? Make sure your manager understands that, right, So 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:27.000 ask yourselves, does my manager understand what my aspirations are, 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.880 what my strengths are, what my weaknesses are, and if not, 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.160 go ahead and tell them right, tell them in a 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.880 one on what make sure they know. And the second 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.480 question is do you want to understand what success for 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.880 my manager looks like in regards to what I can 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.440 do to help them? Because if you don't feel like 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:48.880 you know what your manager is aspiring for in regards 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:51.240 to the team that you're a part of, or what 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:53.840 success for you looks like, you know you're gona be 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.440 basically talking past each other. So both of these things 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.640 need to be true. And if they're not clear. That's 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:01.920 what you know. Time with the manager in one on 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.440 one setting is for right. Make sure they understand your goal, 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.640 make sure you understand their goals. And Julie, what would 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.280 you say, not necessarily to a new manager entering a situation, 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.960 but a manager that maybe has already had some struggles 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.160 with their team, with their reports, who has you know, 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.000 maybe lost faith. How do you rebuild that sort of 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:28.200 trust there? It's super critical that managers have the trust 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.720 with their team. And you know, everyone makes mistakes. I've 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.880 certainly made many as a manager, and in those cases, 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.639 what helped me the most was being able to admit 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.800 my own vulnerability and uh and and come clean with people. Right. 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.720 The thing is a lot of times managers have immense 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.639 pressure on them. You know, they might think I'm the 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.119 manager of the boss, I'm the person who should have 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.760 all the answers. But that's just too high of an 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.480 expectation to have on anyone. There's no single person to 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.920 company who should feel like they have the answers to 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.240 every single problem. That's why we have a team, That's 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.639 why people come together to work on big problems. And 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.240 so in the cases in which you know, as a manager, 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:12.080 you made the wrong call, something happened. Just to own it. 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.479 Just admit that there was a mistake, you know that 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.280 you made You thought certain things. It didn't happen the 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:22.680 way they expected and complete and ask for help. Ask 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.080 the team, Hey, you know, this is one of the 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.240 things that we need to do together as a team. 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.320 I don't have all the answers. I would like ideas 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.440 from all of you. What do you think we should do. 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.400 The best thing I've found for myself as a manager, 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.680 the thing that gave me both a lot more impact 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.160 but also a lot more power, is to be able 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:46.679 to leverage the expertise and the wonderful talent among the 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.879 people on my team. Julie Joe, we got to leave it. 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.639 Their co founder at the advisory Firm in Spirit. It's 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.360 an organization that partners with tech companies to help scale 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.400 and build products. Julie also spent years at Facebook, where 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.960 she helped build the app into one that's used by 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.320 more than a billion people. She's the author of the 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.119 new book The Making of a Manager, What to Do 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.240 When Everyone looks to You. Joining us this afternoon from 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.280 the Bay Area in California. Julie, thanks so much for 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:24.120 taking the time a journal. Yeah, but you let me drive? 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:30.560 Oh no, no, no, no, who's honey? Please gravels let me. 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:39.280 I want to drive. It's good question. This is the 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:47.240 drive to the Globe on Bluebird Radio. All right, we 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.960 got lesson ten minutes to go, and as Charlie mentioned, 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.479 we've got a rally underway. Taking a look at the 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.359 S and P five hundred up one point eight percent, 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.600 the nasdack up two point eight percent. Let's get into 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.399 it with Katie Nixon, chief investment officer at Northern at 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.760 Trust Wealth Management. Katie joins us on the phone from 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.760 right just outside of New York City. Katie, how are you? Um? Great? 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:07.920 How are you? We're doing pretty well. What we're trying 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.639 to figure out is whether or not this equity market 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.040 has gotten ahead of itself, given what we're hearing from 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.000 FED officials, because it sounds like they're saying it has well, 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.320 it's been I mean, as you have started off the segment, 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:21.960 that's been a crazy day in the market today, a 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.200 huge risk on rally here in particular with the riskiest 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.159 areas of the market. The nastack up so strongly, and 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:30.920 you know, I think we came into this really with 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.800 with such low sentiment, with such a negative positioning that 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:36.800 we were due for a nice bounce like we've seen 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:38.840 last week and sort of into this week. But I 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.560 think you asked the right question, which is is it 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.520 sustainable in the phase of a bed that appears to 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.360 be hell bent on not stopping not stopping um? And 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.960 that's certainly where what we're looking at right now as well. 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:52.520 You know, how far will the said go um, and 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:57.000 how will markets be able to digest how the final destination? 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.200 And Katie, I mean, I'm sure you've heard this one before. 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.560 Don't fight the Fed, And just you know, thinking about 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.320