Speaker 1: Wording.
Speaker 2: There are so many spoilers that are about to be
Speaker 2: in this pod. There are spoilers for the fifth episode
Speaker 2: of Hawkeye, and there are spoilers for Spider Man No
Speaker 2: Way Home.
Speaker 1: So just be warned.
Speaker 2: Spider Man No Way Home is absolutely packed and packed
Speaker 2: and packed with stuff that happens. And if you haven't
Speaker 2: seen that movie, you need to go see it now
Speaker 2: before you listen to this because the amount of spoilers
Speaker 2: that will be in here as we discuss this film,
Speaker 2: it's ridiculous. So go watch that movie and then come
Speaker 2: back to us. Oh my name is Jason Cooncepcia. Welcome
Speaker 2: to x Ray Vision of the Cricket Podcast, where we
Speaker 2: dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.
Speaker 2: Joining it today, it had to be Rosie. It had
Speaker 2: to be Rosie Night. We had to bring her back.
Speaker 2: It had to be her to talk about this movie
Speaker 2: with me. Rosie, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm good. I saw the movie. I can't
Speaker 1: believe it. Is it real life that we saw this.
Speaker 1: We really did it.
Speaker 2: I mean we we high five after the movie and
Speaker 2: we're like, I can't believe they did it, And they
Speaker 2: did it.
Speaker 1: They did it.
Speaker 2: So here's what we're gonna be talking about in today's episode.
Speaker 2: First recap and a discussion of episode five of Hawkeye.
Speaker 2: Next in the airlock, we're gonna be diving deep into
Speaker 2: the multiversal madness of no Way Home. In nerd Out,
Speaker 2: a fan pitches us on the novel sworts point in
Speaker 2: the endgame. Yet another round of assembly required. First up, Hawkeye.
Speaker 1: Welcome.
Speaker 2: Previously on, let's talk about episode five of Hawkeye, titled Ronan,
Speaker 2: directed by Burton Birdie, written by Jenna Noel Frasier. Just again,
Speaker 2: a disclaimer. If you haven't seen episode five of Hawkeye yet,
Speaker 2: it's great, but definitely watch it first. And if you
Speaker 2: want to jump ahead to our Spider Man no Way
Speaker 2: Home discussion, feel free to do that, but definitely if
Speaker 2: you have not seen Hawkeye episode five yet, don't listen
Speaker 2: to this portion of it.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Recap. We open in twenty eighteen, somewhere in Europe, after
Speaker 2: the events of the movie Black Widow, Ylena and another
Speaker 2: widow program escape Sonia and break into the mansion of
Speaker 2: yet another person from the widow program named Anna. They
Speaker 2: fight with her. They give her the red Dust antidote,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't do anything, and she's just like, why'd
Speaker 2: you guys spill this weird red shit on my carpet?
Speaker 1: What the fuck?
Speaker 2: And then it turns out she can afford this mansion
Speaker 2: because she's been doing hits for someone who I'm guessing
Speaker 2: it's Bishop Security, right, Yeah, it.
Speaker 3: Seems as we get further into the episode, it will
Speaker 3: seem like it's Security or Sloan Limit, wherever you want
Speaker 3: to call them.
Speaker 1: There's an Ellen a Bishop connection here, I agree.
Speaker 2: Later, Ylena tells Anna that she's been all around the
Speaker 2: world after the events of Black Widow freeing lots of
Speaker 2: ex widows. Talk turns to Natasha. This makes Yolene a
Speaker 2: little uncomfortable. She goes to the bathroom to wash her hands,
Speaker 2: and then she gets snapped and immediately from her perspective,
Speaker 2: she is reconstituted in the same room, only now the
Speaker 2: room has been painted and it's completely differently decorated, because
Speaker 2: of course it's been five years. She wanders out and
Speaker 2: there she sees Anna, and now Anna is there with
Speaker 2: her partner and the child that her and her partner
Speaker 2: have adopted, who I contend is quite possibly Reey Williams
Speaker 2: as a child, but who knows and then Anna basically
Speaker 2: explains what's been going on, and she's like, hey, you
Speaker 2: know you need money now, why don't you pick up
Speaker 2: some contract work, girl, Why don't you just go out
Speaker 2: and kill some people you're trained for it. Jolena goes
Speaker 2: to New York to find Natasha, but of course Natasha
Speaker 2: passed away on Vormere and later in Black Widow. At
Speaker 2: the end of the Black Widow movie. In The Stinger,
Speaker 2: we will see that Contessa Valentina, like Erdfontaine, tells Yolena
Speaker 2: that it was Clint Barton that killed her sister and
Speaker 2: basically is like, hey, I'll set you up with a
Speaker 2: contract to kill Clint Barton if you want. We go
Speaker 2: to the present. Kate returns to her mom's pent house,
Speaker 2: her mom Eleanor's penthouse after the fight with Elena and
Speaker 2: Maya on the roof outside Maya's apartment. She's upset because
Speaker 2: you know, she thought that she was going to be
Speaker 2: Clint's partner in fighting crime, but obviously that has now
Speaker 2: broken up because Clint feels it is too dangerous. Eleanor
Speaker 2: comforts her tends to her bruises. Now, Eleanor asks Kate
Speaker 2: does Clint think you're a superhero.
Speaker 1: This bumped me a little bit. I want to run
Speaker 1: a theory by you, Rosie. I'm ready.
Speaker 2: After the Chatari invasion killed her husband, the father of Kate,
Speaker 2: Eleanor then goes off and starts Bishop Security and builds
Speaker 2: that up into quite a powerhouse company in the security sphere.
Speaker 2: My theory is she hates super people because of what
Speaker 2: they did. This is like they killed her husband, wrecked
Speaker 2: her home, almost killed her and her daughter. She feels
Speaker 2: that they're a menace. And I think there's a world
Speaker 2: in which she's asking Kate this because she hates superheroes
Speaker 2: and she's actively trying to get rid of them.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. She wants to kill them, and she's starting
Speaker 1: with Clint.
Speaker 3: I think that you're right, and I think that it
Speaker 3: ties in tonally to a lot of what the Netflix
Speaker 3: Marvel shows did, where it was like, what is the
Speaker 3: impact for the people whose families died? R what is
Speaker 3: the impact of the Battle of New York? How did
Speaker 3: it destroy people and what did that make them do?
Speaker 3: And so I think with the way that this episode
Speaker 3: goes Spider Man away home like some things that happened,
Speaker 3: I think that we're in a situation where you are
Speaker 3: really onto something. And I think it's a really interesting
Speaker 3: twist on Eleana, who in the comics. You know she
Speaker 3: is this puppet master behind Madame Mask, but giving her
Speaker 3: this more personal anti superhero vendetta is very interesting.
Speaker 1: I wonder if she's the MCU Madam Mask. I wonder
Speaker 1: if she's just Mada Mask.
Speaker 3: It would make sense, especially if you do it in
Speaker 3: a more MCU grounded way, where it's the Mask is
Speaker 3: the Jewel Life, it's the it's the Double.
Speaker 1: It's yeah.
Speaker 3: And her connections to some other famous crime bosses would
Speaker 3: make you think that she probably has a lot of
Speaker 3: credit in the in the bad guy world, which you
Speaker 3: know Madam mosqu.
Speaker 1: Would have, Madam Mask would absolutely have.
Speaker 2: So Kate is like, listen, you know, man, I really
Speaker 2: thought I could be one of them, meaning superheroes, And
Speaker 2: Eleanor is like, you know, listen, when things fall apart,
Speaker 2: you just need to you need to keep moving forward.
Speaker 2: And you're my daughter, and I know who you're becoming.
Speaker 2: You're becoming someone great, but not necessarily a superhero. Kate
Speaker 2: then tells Eleanor, listen, we've been doing some digging into
Speaker 2: Jack and he's involved with this money laundering front Slow Limited.
Speaker 2: Eleanor is like, okay, I'll look into it, and she
Speaker 2: tells Kate also, by the way, you're moving back into
Speaker 2: the house. Elsewhere, Kazi tends to Maya after the fight
Speaker 2: on the rooftop. He is like, listen, you got to
Speaker 2: stop acting like such a fucking badass all the time. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's me, like we know each other, Like you don't
Speaker 2: have to like be this tough person all the time.
Speaker 2: Maya tells him, Hey, you know what was really weird.
Speaker 2: There was this other woman on the roof and it's
Speaker 2: clear that Clint and Kate didn't know her either. It's
Speaker 2: a strange piece of the puzzle. Meanwhile, Kazi wants Maya
Speaker 2: to promise that after they take care of the ronin
Speaker 2: that she'll just stop with this whatever this like revenge
Speaker 2: mission is because it's bad. Kate returns to her fire
Speaker 2: damaged department to find Oh.
Speaker 1: Look at this, it's Yolena eating.
Speaker 2: Mac and cheese out of a pot. This is a
Speaker 2: great scene, first of all, because one Hailey Steinfeld and
Speaker 2: Florence Pugh are just so good.
Speaker 1: They're so good. They're so good.
Speaker 2: I love how dismissive Yolena is of Kate as any
Speaker 2: kind of threat to her. She's like, listen, I mean,
Speaker 2: she's just like, yeah, let's eat out of the same pot. Like,
Speaker 2: I know we fought on the rooftop, but I could
Speaker 2: kill you literally anytime I want, Like, I am not
Speaker 2: worried about you even a little bit, like go for
Speaker 2: your boat. It's it doesn't bother me even a little.
Speaker 2: We learned that Elena loves a shocking amount of Saracha
Speaker 2: hot sauce on her on her mac and cheese, and
Speaker 2: she tells Kate, listen, my first time in New York.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna see the site. I'm gonna see the tree,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go to Fifth Avenue. I'm gonna see the
Speaker 2: Empire State Building. Oh, and I'm gonna I'm gonna kill
Speaker 2: Clint Barton. That's why I'm here. She also spills that
Speaker 2: she knows everything about Kate. She knows her grade point.
Speaker 1: Average, you know, lives like every yeh.
Speaker 2: Probably, she knows that she knows that she saved a dog,
Speaker 2: which I think helps her, Jolena said, helps her in
Speaker 2: her eyes, and then she continues with, Hey, I'm here
Speaker 2: to assassinate Clint. By the way why Because I'm Natasha
Speaker 2: Romanov's sister and Clint caused her death in some way,
Speaker 2: and also did you know he killed the so many
Speaker 2: people that it's an ocean of blood if you were
Speaker 2: to put all of their blood like in one contater.
Speaker 2: And of course Kate tries to say, no, Clint's a hero.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And it's also clear that Elena not a fan of
Speaker 2: the Avengers, although to be fair to her, she kind
Speaker 2: of wasn't around when they were doing their best.
Speaker 1: She was blipped out.
Speaker 2: And it raises an interesting question, is it like widely
Speaker 2: known what happened on Vormir you think, Rosie like, people
Speaker 2: clearly know that Natasha.
Speaker 1: Passed, so they must.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that like the exact how and why
Speaker 2: is like known to people.
Speaker 3: There's something about what has happened between endgame and now
Speaker 3: and the blip that means that there is a lot
Speaker 3: more information out there. Because something else that kind of
Speaker 3: adds to this is in a minute, we'll get to where.
Speaker 3: You know, Clink goes to the Avengers memorial, right, but
Speaker 3: it says Natasha Romanov, it doesn't say black Widow, you know,
Speaker 3: so her name is out there obviously, Elena could know
Speaker 3: because of vow or ever nefarious stuff you know information about.
Speaker 3: But I think there's some kind of heroic historical representation
Speaker 3: kind of hinted at with like Roger's the Musical, where
Speaker 3: more of the this information is getting out now and
Speaker 3: for some reason there's some kind of public knowledge of
Speaker 3: what went on to stop Thanos, maybe just because you know,
Speaker 3: half the world got flipped back into existence, so people
Speaker 3: like probably want to know.
Speaker 2: Yolena talks about how eager she is to go Clint
Speaker 2: and asks Kate where is he cases I don't know,
Speaker 2: and Elena believes her. Clint meanwhile, is crashing at Grill's
Speaker 2: apartment with Lucky the pizza dog. He's like, listen, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna get a hotel. Could you look after the dog?
Speaker 2: And Girls is like, no, wait, man, what are you
Speaker 2: talking about? You sleep on my bed. I'll sleep on
Speaker 2: the guy. Do you sleep in my bed? And CLI's like, no,
Speaker 2: I'll sleep on the cash.
Speaker 1: It's fine. Back at Eleanor's we.
Speaker 2: See the cops escorting Jack Away, who, by the way,
Speaker 2: is like taking all this in with a plume, is
Speaker 2: not even a little bit flustered by it.
Speaker 1: I have thoughts.
Speaker 3: I have to tell me Tony Dalton icon. I want
Speaker 3: him in every MC movie. I love Swordsman, I loved Jack,
Speaker 3: and I think I think Jack is a good guy,
Speaker 3: and not just do I think, and not just do
Speaker 3: I think that Jack is like a patsy.
Speaker 1: I think Jack is like a deep shield agent or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's something about the ease with which he takes
Speaker 3: it and the absolute lack of surprise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not concerned even a little.
Speaker 3: He's like, somebody framed me, obviously, and I'm going to
Speaker 3: prove it. And we can guess who framed him. Because
Speaker 3: this happens immediately after Kate brings suspicions about Sloan Limited.
Speaker 3: So it seems very easy for Eleanor to immediately say, oh,
Speaker 3: this is the man. It's it's him, you know, he's
Speaker 3: I think there's more to him that meets the eye.
Speaker 2: And let me just add this also, Eleanor the CEO
Speaker 2: of a quite powerful private security firm, and she didn't
Speaker 2: do any digging into the guys she's hitting. No, she knew,
Speaker 2: she knew, like she she she knew.
Speaker 1: Right or she put his name on that Sloane Limited.
Speaker 2: Absolutely she knew, you know, she knew Clint is walking
Speaker 2: around the city. He goes over to Grand Central Station,
Speaker 2: to the site of the former Stark Tower, where he
Speaker 2: finds a plaque commemorating the Avengers defense of the city.
Speaker 2: He takes out his hearing aid and he talks directly
Speaker 2: to Natty, says, you were the bravest of all of us,
Speaker 2: weren't you. You can tell he's really mad at her.
Speaker 2: He misses her, but he's also mad at her for
Speaker 2: sacrificing her life when he feels like it should have
Speaker 2: been him, especially considering all the murdering he was doing
Speaker 2: during that time.
Speaker 3: The particular I agree, I don't even like black Meadow,
Speaker 3: and I agree it should have been.
Speaker 2: Him, And clearly he feels that way. And then he
Speaker 2: apologizes to her for quote what I'm about to do.
Speaker 2: And then he puts his hood up, signaling to us
Speaker 2: that the Ronan has returned, and he walks off. Kate
Speaker 2: wakes up and it's a brand new day with brand
Speaker 2: new energy, and she's not given up and she's not
Speaker 2: going to stop being Clint's partner. She gets on the
Speaker 2: phone just like that scene and in Swingers, in which
Speaker 2: Jon Favreau calls his X a million times and She
Speaker 2: leaves a million messages on Clint's phone about Jack, about
Speaker 2: being a hero, about what she plans to do, until
Speaker 2: she fills up his voicemail. Meanwhile, Thomas and Ivan of
Speaker 2: the Tracksuits are driving in a moving van across town.
Speaker 2: They're talking about whether or not they look like the
Speaker 2: Royal tenenbombs, the characters from the Royal tenenbaums, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the arrow smashes into the windshield
Speaker 2: and the arrow contains a note. It says, Maya, meet
Speaker 2: me tonight where you first met Ronan Alone, Clint calls Laura.
Speaker 2: He tells her, listen, this problem is just not going away.
Speaker 2: It's bigger than we thought. Maya has the watch. She's
Speaker 2: been investigating us, and someone has hired a black widow
Speaker 2: assass and he's concerned that the family's cover might be
Speaker 2: blown and that the quote big guy might be involved.
Speaker 2: Laura is like, do what you gotta do, follow your guy, Okay,
Speaker 2: I have a question. So the watch. I think it's
Speaker 2: connected to Laura somehow, and that for some reason people
Speaker 2: don't realize that Laura is maybe still alive or you know,
Speaker 2: somehow she effectively got out of whatever national security kind
Speaker 2: of situation she was in and managed to get rid
Speaker 2: of her identity and has been laying low and the
Speaker 2: family their location is unknown to people as well. There's
Speaker 2: a missing piece though, somehow, because if that's the case,
Speaker 2: why is Hawkeye like prancing around New York with his
Speaker 2: kids going to like Rogers the Musical and he's one
Speaker 2: of the most famous people in the world, to the
Speaker 2: point that people are walking up to him and coming
Speaker 2: up to him in Chinese restaurants and being like, hey,
Speaker 2: thanks for saving the world.
Speaker 3: I think that the hiding and plain side aspect of
Speaker 3: this seems very misguided when the two I think that
Speaker 3: my reading of it is whatever Laura was involved in, yeah,
Speaker 3: was a very very long time ago, to the point
Speaker 3: where it's like, you know, Tony Stark didn't know who
Speaker 3: she was or that she existed, He didn't know where
Speaker 3: he said, this is an agent of some kind, Like
Speaker 3: how would we not know about this? I think they
Speaker 3: got a little bit comfortable, and the Watch is basically
Speaker 3: waking them up. I do have a theory after this
Speaker 3: episode though, if it was as I have proposed, as
Speaker 3: we talked about, something to do with shield right the watch,
Speaker 3: and it would blow her cover. Why would the big
Speaker 3: guy aka the man that we are assuming is Kingpin,
Speaker 3: why would he care?
Speaker 1: What if? Yeah? What if? What if?
Speaker 3: When Clint was talking to Kate in the house, he
Speaker 3: says to her, the best shot was the one I
Speaker 3: didn't take. And then there's a silence, and then Kate says, oh,
Speaker 3: is it Natasha?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: Do you mean Natasha or and he goes, yeah, it's
Speaker 3: Natasha or whatever. And I wonder if it was actually
Speaker 3: about Natasha, And I wonder if it was also about Laura,
Speaker 3: because Laura actually worked for Kingpin. I wonder if that's
Speaker 3: what it was and that's how they met or something
Speaker 3: like that, because Kingpin's the kind of person who would
Speaker 3: have a tracker.
Speaker 1: It would subvert kind of what we thought.
Speaker 3: It would also explain how she could maybe get into
Speaker 3: some kind of witness protection sque program. And I just
Speaker 3: I wonder if that's to be the twist, because the
Speaker 3: one thing I don't get is, you know, why would
Speaker 3: the big man get involved? And why would he care
Speaker 3: who Laura about? And ISRAELI Like, what connection does he have?
Speaker 3: Unless the other option is she was involved in something
Speaker 3: to take the king Can down. But I kind of
Speaker 3: like the idea that maybe she had a darker side
Speaker 3: as well, because she also says during that conversation, like
Speaker 3: she says something like no matter what you do, like
Speaker 3: just know, I will understand more than anyone else. And
Speaker 3: that makes it sound like she's an assassin or something.
Speaker 2: Let me posit this to you, okay. So, in the comics,
Speaker 2: particularly in the Daredevil Run, the kind of like I
Speaker 2: guess late eighties early nineties Daredevil Run depictions of Kingpin,
Speaker 2: Kingpin had an ex wife, Vanessa, that he loved very much,
Speaker 2: who disappeared, who was scared of him and ran away
Speaker 2: from him.
Speaker 1: Oh, and she has been searching for her.
Speaker 2: He's always looking for her, and Daredevil in various tellings
Speaker 2: of this story knows where she is and goes to
Speaker 2: talk to her when he needs information about Kingpin, and
Speaker 2: but he's always protecting like where she is. Do we
Speaker 2: think there's a world in which Laura Barton is Kingpin's
Speaker 2: im the EMCU version of Vanessa.
Speaker 1: I want to live in that world because.
Speaker 3: That is a great theory, that is, like so, and
Speaker 3: imagine if the watch was like something he gave her
Speaker 3: as a gift, the tracking device in it, you know, dude,
Speaker 3: I hope that's what it is.
Speaker 1: That's definitely my favorite hawk Eye theory so far. Okay,
Speaker 1: well let's stay tuned and let's see.
Speaker 2: Okay, at the Fatman used car Lot, which Wilson named
Speaker 2: it that himself, so that's fine, but it's a little mean. Anyway, Clint,
Speaker 2: dressed as the Ronan, takes out all of Maya's hensche's,
Speaker 2: which guys, Maya, you gotta train these guys a little better.
Speaker 1: It's they're not good.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 3: Also, he's basically like Batman in this scene, like he's
Speaker 3: like disappearing, He's like he's pulling people under. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Hawkuy was never that when he was not the Ronan,
Speaker 3: so like, good for him, I guess. But yeah, train
Speaker 3: them back.
Speaker 1: Train them better.
Speaker 2: Come on, Clint and Maya fight. I mean, Clint fights
Speaker 2: her with the sword out, which feels a little aggressive
Speaker 2: to me considering like what his actual like angle is here.
Speaker 2: He beats her, he unmasks because he wants her to
Speaker 2: see his face, and he says, listen, any threat to
Speaker 2: my family will be dealt with with extreme prejudice. And anyway, listen,
Speaker 2: you and I are the same, We're weapons. We are
Speaker 2: easily manipulated because we're filled with rage. Don't let that
Speaker 2: happen to you, and he tells her. Listen, here's another
Speaker 2: tip for you. Okay, I was there when your dad
Speaker 2: was killed. I was there that night when the track
Speaker 2: suits got attacked. I was tipped off by an informant
Speaker 2: who works for your boss. The implication being the boss
Speaker 2: wanted your dad dead and now he's using you for
Speaker 2: and similar to those to cover it up or whatever.
Speaker 1: Maya is like, I don't believe it.
Speaker 2: She attacks, grabs Clint's sword and tacks him, but then
Speaker 2: Kate fires an arrow and disons Maya, and then Kate
Speaker 2: and Clint take an uber out of town. So let
Speaker 2: me ask who is the informant who works for the
Speaker 2: boss who tipped off Clint?
Speaker 1: You think? I do think it's Kazi.
Speaker 3: I do because when we see Maya on the night,
Speaker 3: she is the same, she is similar age to as
Speaker 3: she is now. And I think it adds this really
Speaker 3: deep personal betrayal because they've been friends since they were kids.
Speaker 3: They were both raised by uncle, right, you know, so
Speaker 3: Kazi has his own personal relationship to the man that
Speaker 3: we're assuming is Kingpin, And I could imagine that he
Speaker 3: would have done this thing that he regrets so deeply,
Speaker 3: and that's why he's kind of so obsessed with protecting
Speaker 3: Maya and kind of making up for it. So I
Speaker 3: think that that is a likely option or a very
Speaker 3: good red herring.
Speaker 1: Either way, I agree with you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Maya goes to see Kazie and she's like, hey, so, yeah,
Speaker 2: the night that the run and attacked the track suits
Speaker 2: and my dad was killed, you were supposed to be there, right,
Speaker 2: You're my dad's second in command.
Speaker 1: Where were you? And Cousy's like what, He's like.
Speaker 3: I didn't get the call, Like what, Like, dude, you
Speaker 3: could come up with a bad idea.
Speaker 1: I was out of town on a date with Canada.
Speaker 1: I don't you know, Like, how dare you? Maya? Like
Speaker 1: what the fuck?
Speaker 2: And Maya is, of course extremely doubtful about this. She
Speaker 2: drives off she screw. Later, Kate tells Clint that she
Speaker 2: spoke to Elena, who they fought on the roof and
Speaker 2: that it's Natasha's sister, and Clint knows of her really
Speaker 2: weird response. He just goes okay, which I felt very
Speaker 2: loaded for whatever reason, Like I don't know what he
Speaker 2: knows of Yolena. I would assume that Natasha has talked
Speaker 2: about her at length and that they have talked about it.
Speaker 2: They had that kind of relationship where they shared that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff, So it'll be interesting to see what
Speaker 2: happens there. Meanwhile, Yolena is out there trailing Eleanor through
Speaker 2: the streets. Back at Rills, Kate and Clint are seeing
Speaker 2: the tricks that Grill says taught Lucky. Kate gets a
Speaker 2: text from an unknown person. I think it's Elena, right, Yes,
Speaker 2: I think so, And it is a picture of Eleanor
Speaker 2: with a man, and Kate's like, who is this guy?
Speaker 2: And Clint's like, that's the guy I've been talking about
Speaker 2: this whole time. And then we see the screen of
Speaker 2: the phone and it's Visitanafrio, Guy Gills and Vista cakeb
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: It's so good. I mean, they really did a brilliant
Speaker 1: job in this one job. And as we will get
Speaker 1: into with Spider Man, it becomes it's a very tiny choice.
Speaker 1: It's a big It's all big. Okay, So let's go
Speaker 1: into some of these questions.
Speaker 2: What exactly is Eleanor's role in all of this, and
Speaker 2: do we think that it was legitimately Clint who attacked
Speaker 2: the Tracksuits and killed Maya's dad.
Speaker 1: I do think it was Clint.
Speaker 3: I think think that the fact that he knows Kingpin's
Speaker 3: been talking about Big Guy. I think Clint may have
Speaker 3: been in some way connected with or working for Kingpin
Speaker 3: because in the comics it's Kingpin who orchestrates the death
Speaker 3: of my dad.
Speaker 1: So this goes with the comics.
Speaker 3: And I think that for whatever reason, you know, Ronan
Speaker 3: was a serial killer, right, so he didn't have great logic.
Speaker 3: He could have been like, well, Fisk wanted them wiped out,
Speaker 3: and it went along with my hatred of bad guess
Speaker 3: or Fisk said, you know, I'll let Laura and you
Speaker 3: go if you kill these people for me, you know.
Speaker 1: So I do think it was Clint, but I do
Speaker 1: think it was under the tutelage or in exchange for
Speaker 1: it was something to do with Kingpin, and I think,
Speaker 1: like that's going to be a big reveal in the
Speaker 1: next episode. Okay, Elena.
Speaker 2: So when last we saw Elena at the end of
Speaker 2: Black Widow, Julie Luis Dreyfus, the Kntessa Valentina Legradfontaine was
Speaker 2: presenting her with a tablet with a picture of Clinton
Speaker 2: it saying Clint killed your sister. What is the linkage
Speaker 2: between the Kintessa and Bishop Security?
Speaker 1: You think? This is what I want to know. Are
Speaker 1: they saying that Val.
Speaker 3: Is working for Kingpin slash Eleanor? Is that connected? Because
Speaker 3: it seems like she when they said, oh, look into
Speaker 3: who ordered that hit, and then Elena is like, I
Speaker 3: found out it was your mom. I couldn't tell whether
Speaker 3: Elena was lying to try and pick Kate and Eleanor
Speaker 3: against each other, But I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3: I feel like Elena and Kate have a good chemistry.
Speaker 3: They kind of trust each other in a weird, suspicious way.
Speaker 3: So I'm trying to work out if Eleanor and Kingpin,
Speaker 3: who we now know are kind of incahoots or at
Speaker 3: least know each other well enough to be photographed together.
Speaker 1: Are they the ones putting together the Dark Avengers?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Is Bishop Security the space where they're trying to build
Speaker 3: this team and instead of having a Norman Osborne or something,
Speaker 3: you're going to have Kingpin as you're kind of overseer.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's like Dark Rain Fish because you're exactly.
Speaker 3: Your Dark Rain figure. Like I I'm really interested. That
Speaker 3: is the biggest question that I want to see answered
Speaker 3: in the next episode, because it seemed very much like
Speaker 3: Val was the one in charge. But this reveal kind
Speaker 3: of hints that Kingpin has been puppet mastering things much
Speaker 3: further outside of just the TV shows.
Speaker 2: Now, I wonder if it's this. This is what I've
Speaker 2: been thinking, because it was it was a little a
Speaker 2: little suspicious to me how much Elena was really investigating Eleanor.
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's that if the Contessa went to
Speaker 2: Elena and said, Okay, here, I have a mission I
Speaker 2: need you to I need you to get inside and
Speaker 2: investigate Bishop security and find out like what the links
Speaker 2: are to organize crime. As a bonus, you get to
Speaker 2: kill Clint Barton in the in the course of doing
Speaker 2: your mission, because they want that. They're looking for an
Speaker 2: assassin to do that anyway, and I want to know
Speaker 2: who they are.
Speaker 1: So it's a two for one for you.
Speaker 2: You go in, you get to kill Clit, and you
Speaker 2: also get to investigate these people who are potentially bad.
Speaker 1: That's very likely and very smart.
Speaker 3: I think basically that Elena is the mole for Val,
Speaker 3: and vou was like, but you actually do want to
Speaker 3: do the mission, so just do it as well, because
Speaker 3: I'm not a This is not a good person, She's
Speaker 3: a morally great person.
Speaker 1: If you want to kill this Avenger, fine, I'm fine
Speaker 1: with that, But also, can.
Speaker 3: You tell me who the fuck these people are and
Speaker 3: what they're doing.
Speaker 2: I wonder if you think Jackie Kaine the Swordsman is
Speaker 2: working for Val.
Speaker 3: Too, Maybe that could be an interesting kind of if
Speaker 3: it's Val, like from the comics where it's like at
Speaker 3: one point she was entangled with Shield or Nick Fury
Speaker 3: or something, so in that way, he was maybe a leftover.
Speaker 3: I think he could be so deep undercover that he's
Speaker 3: a leftover from before Shield in you know, Captain America too,
Speaker 3: Like I think this could be a he's been deep
Speaker 3: undercover in the crime world of New York, fell for
Speaker 3: Eleanor and was like maybe I can fix her or
Speaker 3: you know, maybe maybe not, but you know, it seems
Speaker 3: to be going well for me, Like nothing these tracks
Speaker 3: with my what do they even do? They don't seem
Speaker 3: that bad and lo and behold, he's now caught in
Speaker 3: this kind of seemingly world ending superhero drama of Kingpin.
Speaker 2: And then final question when Clint goes to the plaque,
Speaker 2: which can we get the Avengers a bigger plaque?
Speaker 1: Like it's fine, but it's not even a log human
Speaker 1: like just the black Yeah, like that's all. It's just
Speaker 1: like this plaque anyway, it's weird.
Speaker 2: He apologizes to Natasha for what he's about to do,
Speaker 2: but what is that? Because it doesn't seem okay. So
Speaker 2: he's gonna contact Maya and be like, hey, don't do
Speaker 2: the like you stop looking for me.
Speaker 1: I wonder what it is.
Speaker 3: Natasha died because she believed that Clint could be a
Speaker 3: better person and he had this family and he could
Speaker 3: forget the Ronan And he basically put the Ronan suit
Speaker 3: back on and went and threatened a twenty year old
Speaker 3: or twenty five and threatened some young girl who's just
Speaker 3: in this really same position that he was in and
Speaker 3: that Natasha was in. And he used the thing that
Speaker 3: he was meant to be kind of forgetting. And I
Speaker 3: think that that would be my guess of what he
Speaker 3: was kind of emotionally trying to connect to.
Speaker 2: Fantastic episode Man. Ever since episode three, Hawkeye has really
Speaker 2: just gone up, up, up and up.
Speaker 3: The action stuff with Maya and the way that they
Speaker 3: the way they've built in a Lac was prosthetic as
Speaker 3: a way for her to always be able to kick
Speaker 3: the shit out of Clint, and this time he hits
Speaker 3: her with that sword. It just hits that prosthetic boom.
Speaker 3: Is like my favorite thing. I just the action in
Speaker 3: this show is just so cool and balancing that with
Speaker 3: the emotional beats and the kind of these big reveals,
Speaker 3: like that Kingpin reveal is huge. It was, it was
Speaker 3: really really big, but they just did it in such
Speaker 3: a cool way.
Speaker 2: Agreed, And so like, the question is where, And it's
Speaker 2: a similar question with another character that is in No
Speaker 2: Way Home, which we will talk about in the No
Speaker 2: Way Home segment. The question is where in Daredevil's arc
Speaker 2: are we meeting him? So, you know, in the in
Speaker 2: the Netflix series, he's the he's the kingpin of crime,
Speaker 2: like he is the Dawn of New York. He's an
Speaker 2: extremely powerful figure at the top of the food chain
Speaker 2: of New York organized crime, not only organized crime but
Speaker 2: also like New York business interests. He is just like
Speaker 2: well connected. Is that the kingpin that we are meeting
Speaker 2: now or is this the kingpin that's just on his
Speaker 2: rise and has not yet like beaten down and subdued
Speaker 2: the other organized crime families and kind of and turned
Speaker 2: them into his own family.
Speaker 1: I just wonder where he is. What are your thoughts.
Speaker 3: I think he's I think he's been at the top.
Speaker 3: I think the Netflix stuff exists. I think people are
Speaker 3: taken down, either by a different crime family or by Matt.
Speaker 3: He got taken down some pegs, and he's on the
Speaker 3: rise in a more like Hawky knows he's the big guy.
Speaker 1: Hawky's terrified of him. He's made his mark. He people
Speaker 1: know who he is.
Speaker 3: But there's something that has and that means he's having
Speaker 3: to make this comeback in a different way. It could
Speaker 3: be the twist could be him and eleanor are doing
Speaker 3: something legitimate together, because Kingpin has been legitimate at some points,
Speaker 3: so that would be really scary because if he's coming
Speaker 3: up as a political candidate, a mayor or candidate or something,
Speaker 3: that could be something that would be really awful for
Speaker 3: her to have to prove, yeah, there's this evil guy
Speaker 3: and oh no, that's, you know, stand up member of
Speaker 3: the community. But I think he's been big. I think
Speaker 3: Netflix deat of a show is still generally something that
Speaker 3: we can look back to but he's making as he's
Speaker 3: on his second rise to power.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: I will say that this is a very very very
Speaker 2: minor detail from Spider Man No Way Home, but I
Speaker 2: guess technically a spoiler, but I will say that. So
Speaker 2: the Department of Damage Control, who's been around ever since
Speaker 2: you know, Spider Man Homecoming, is kind of a more
Speaker 2: active entity now in the MCU and in the comics
Speaker 2: at least, the Department of Damage Control, which dealt with,
Speaker 2: you know, salvage work and construction work in the wake
Speaker 2: of these superhero battles in which they go in. They'd
Speaker 2: salvage alien materials, alien weapons, and also like fix any
Speaker 2: damage that had been done. Was a business partnership between
Speaker 2: public and private interest. So it was like part government,
Speaker 2: part private, but the private part was a partnership between
Speaker 2: Wilson Fisk, Wilson Fisk's legitimate business arm, and Tony Stark.
Speaker 2: So I do wonder if I wonder if the Kingpin is,
Speaker 2: to your point, in his second rise, has more of
Speaker 2: these kind of like legitimate arms and his like with
Speaker 2: damage control and then with his more crime related stuff.
Speaker 2: It's just like a lot more under the surface now.
Speaker 2: It's very very interesting. I can't wait to see what
Speaker 2: happens in episode six. Any predictions quickly?
Speaker 3: I think we're going to get a very very brief
Speaker 3: reference to the big final battle and Spider Man.
Speaker 1: Some kind of TV news report. Oh the the Statue
Speaker 1: of Liberty is broken or something. But that's it. But
Speaker 1: I think we will get it.
Speaker 2: Whoo up next Spider Man No Way Home.
Speaker 1: Okay, folks, this is it.
Speaker 2: We are stepping out of the airlock to talk about
Speaker 2: Spider Man No Way Home and to recap this really
Speaker 2: amazing movie.
Speaker 1: Rosie, are you ready? I'm ready, I was born ready.
Speaker 1: This is the moment. This is it. We did it,
Speaker 1: so we opened.
Speaker 2: No Way Home opens, and it opens right after the
Speaker 2: events of Spider Man Far from Home and Peter Parker's
Speaker 2: life is an absolute mess. Mysterios reveal of Spider Man's
Speaker 2: identity has turned Pete's daily existence into a zoo. He has,
Speaker 2: of course, framed Peter for his and this has been
Speaker 2: very effective. The DODC, the Department of Damage Control headed
Speaker 2: up by Stewie from succession, is currently investigating Pete for
Speaker 2: numerous federal crimes. Aunt May is being threatened with charges
Speaker 2: of ret close engagement of a child, Happy, MJ, and
Speaker 2: Ned are all being investigated as Peter's accessories. May has
Speaker 2: to hire a lawyer, and she goes out and hires
Speaker 2: the best lawyer that she can afford, and it's a
Speaker 2: blind lawyer by the name of Matthew Murdoch. We called it,
Speaker 2: we called it, we called it incredible moment.
Speaker 1: They do such a good job. Like he's sitting at
Speaker 1: the table and you know.
Speaker 3: He says to p Oh, the charge is not going
Speaker 3: to stick, but now you've got to deal with a
Speaker 3: court of public opinion. Bom, A brick comes through the
Speaker 3: window and on the brick it says we believe mysterio.
Speaker 3: And Matt catches it and he said, goes, how did
Speaker 3: you do that? And he said, I'm a really good lawyer.
Speaker 2: It is amazing this film. I tweeted that this film
Speaker 2: has like endgame levels of wow they pulled it off.
Speaker 1: Part of that is, you know, this was like this was.
Speaker 2: A screening for press and various people like that, but
Speaker 2: it had that like Marvel movie feel of everybody just.
Speaker 1: Be like, oh shit, yeah.
Speaker 2: And one of the I absolutely legitimately screamed oh shit.
Speaker 2: When Aunt May and Peter are meeting with their lawyer,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, you know, you see them
Speaker 2: in a two shot, and then they asked the lawyer
Speaker 2: a question, and then the next shot as the camera
Speaker 2: zooms back, is like him holding a cane, and I
Speaker 2: was just like, oh shit, they're doing it.
Speaker 1: It's Matthew Murdoch. We love it.
Speaker 2: So mysterios framing of Peter Parker has effectively split public opinion.
Speaker 2: Most people, including our friends at Midtownheimster, Harrington, and Julius,
Speaker 2: consider Peter a hero for his efforts in the battle
Speaker 2: against Thanos, saving the world and saving the lives of
Speaker 2: half the beings in the whole fucking universe. But a
Speaker 2: sizable minority encompassing you know, conspiracy theorists and the various
Speaker 2: people who watch daily Bugle content, which of which there
Speaker 2: is a large overlap, believe Peter is a terrorist who
Speaker 2: murdered the courageous interdimensional superhero with Stereo with stolen Stark Tech.
Speaker 2: Because of this, Peter and May are forced to leave
Speaker 2: their home and DeCamp to Happis Queen's condo, where we
Speaker 2: are reunited with our friend the robot arm Dummy.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that guy.
Speaker 2: I love Dummy Peter, MJ, and Ned all apply to
Speaker 2: the same colleges. They have the same primary college mit
Speaker 2: in the same various backups. When Ned and MJ are
Speaker 2: denied all of their choices basically and are told the
Speaker 2: reason is specifically they're link to Spider Man, Peter feels, okay,
Speaker 2: I gotta do something, so he goes to visit his friend,
Speaker 2: doctor Strange in the Sanctum Sanctorum. Well, colleague, right, not friend,
Speaker 2: clearly not friend. Yet they're colleagues. They are brothers in arms.
Speaker 1: So to say, save the wild, but they don't know
Speaker 1: they yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, like they're they saved the world together.
Speaker 1: And then and then they went their separate ways.
Speaker 2: At the Sanctum, we see that a blizzard has recently
Speaker 2: run through because of an unsecured portal to Siberia or
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 1: We learn that.
Speaker 2: Much too much to Stranger's chagrin, Wong is actually the
Speaker 2: Sorcerer Supreme.
Speaker 1: So that is the right choice. The drop was so perfect.
Speaker 2: Stephens and I lom so angry about it. He's like,
Speaker 2: it's actually it's a tenntality. Actually because I blipped out
Speaker 2: for five Yes, you weren't around for five years. You
Speaker 2: weren't around and Earth needed a sorcers regream, So it's
Speaker 2: gotta be Wong who is here. Uh yeah, I love
Speaker 2: that he calls it a technicality. I will say this.
Speaker 2: Does it feel?
Speaker 1: Of course? Wang is always hurting for cash.
Speaker 2: Remember the scene in Infinity War where he's like, I
Speaker 2: need you to buy me a sandwich and coffee. Like
Speaker 2: Wong is always like, I don't have hard currency. That said,
Speaker 2: it feels a little bit below the dignity of the
Speaker 2: Sorcerer Supreme for Wong to be taking part in like
Speaker 2: illegal superhero fights for cash, as we saw in Shane.
Speaker 3: Think about Stephen, all the things that Stephen Strange did.
Speaker 3: He was such a shady guy to become the Sorcerer Supreme.
Speaker 3: He's like stealing shit.
Speaker 1: Absolutely he's there.
Speaker 3: He was just a bad guy. So I'm like, you
Speaker 3: know what, Wong, He's just up front of by it.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm gonna do a little bit of an
Speaker 3: illegal side. He's like I'm gonna do a He's like,
Speaker 3: I'm training abomination for some and maybe he's gonna be
Speaker 3: a suck Avengers, So why not just make a little
Speaker 3: cash on the side.
Speaker 1: Because Steven's obviously giving him any money.
Speaker 3: He's obviously not getting paid by the Sorcerer's Supreme, so
Speaker 3: I'm like, go for it wrong.
Speaker 1: Here's my take.
Speaker 2: Here's my take MCU, Defenders, Wong Abomination, maybe Doc Strange
Speaker 2: and some other weirdos.
Speaker 3: I definitely think I think Defenders is happening now that
Speaker 3: we've got this true Kevin Feige doesn't care about using
Speaker 3: stuff from the Marvel TV and he kind of doesn't
Speaker 3: mind reimagining.
Speaker 1: I think Defenders is happening. It makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: So, uh, Peter explains his issue to Strange. Everybody knows
Speaker 2: my identity. It really sucks now, and Strange with very
Speaker 2: little persuading. I mean he kind of like briefly is
Speaker 2: like can't you just deal with it? And then immediately
Speaker 2: is like, fine, you know what, let's just alter reality.
Speaker 1: I can do that.
Speaker 3: He's like, yeah, we used this, We use this spell
Speaker 3: all the time, Like sure it deals with unknown realities,
Speaker 3: but like we've used it to forget like bad parties.
Speaker 2: So let's just commortize remember that party and commotize that
Speaker 2: we had Wong.
Speaker 1: And Wong's like no, and he's like see n't it.
Speaker 2: And of course this this absolutely you know, comports with
Speaker 2: what we know about Stephen Strange, a guy who's rise
Speaker 2: in the commartage like hierarchy, like depended you know, pretty
Speaker 2: heavily on his stealing books that he shouldn't have been
Speaker 2: reading and doing things he shouldn't have been doing the
Speaker 2: great time. Yeah, just like egoist kind of shit that
Speaker 2: doctor Strange is absolutely liable to do when he learns
Speaker 2: of this, you know, obviously, like it's a serious issue,
Speaker 2: but like minor in the universal sense, problem that he
Speaker 2: can solve by, you know, just like mind wiping the
Speaker 2: entire population of Earth. Like he's like, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm in, let's do that, you know. But of course,
Speaker 2: like the difference between like mind wiping some folks in
Speaker 2: comartage and this incident, you know what we're dealing with
Speaker 2: now is like we're talking about like millions of people again.
Speaker 2: So Strange gets to work and he's he's performing this
Speaker 2: very very very complex, very very uh you know, precise
Speaker 2: and very powerful spell, and in the middle of it,
Speaker 2: Peter is like, oh, well, hold on, did you say
Speaker 2: everybody's gonna forget about me? Can we make MJ kind
Speaker 2: of needs to remember me? Because like we're like that's
Speaker 2: my girlfriend. We're in a relationship right now, so like
Speaker 2: can we do that? And Strange is like okay, fine,
Speaker 2: but like no more. And then he's like okay, oh
Speaker 2: oh a Ned Ned is my best friend. He's the
Speaker 2: guy in the chair, like I need d too, And
Speaker 2: then Strange it's still performing the spells like okay, but
Speaker 2: like no more, and then all of a sudden, it's
Speaker 2: also anime, and then it's also happy.
Speaker 1: And then happy is the reason that the Maultivas explained,
Speaker 1: it's because you want to happy.
Speaker 2: And so Strange has to shut down the spell because
Speaker 2: the multiverse is it He's about to like warp reality
Speaker 2: in a way that he's like, actually, not sure what's
Speaker 2: gonna do. So he captures the spell like in this
Speaker 2: amber geodesic shape, and he's like, Peter, get out of here.
Speaker 2: He realizes Peter. Also let's drop that he didn't call
Speaker 2: am I. He didn't like call admissions or anything. He
Speaker 2: just immediately was like, oh, doctor Strange can help, but
Speaker 2: like warping reality. And so then doctor Strange is like,
Speaker 2: you didn't even call, like get out of here? How
Speaker 2: dare you, sir? Get out of my sanctum? And he
Speaker 2: kicks Peter out. Peter calls Flash Thompson. Now Thompson did
Speaker 2: get accepted to MIT, and in recent days he has
Speaker 2: been branding himself as Peter's official best friend. He even,
Speaker 2: like Speed, published a novel to that effect, Flashpoint, which
Speaker 2: is a very good BC. I thought that was so funny.
Speaker 1: That was really really funny.
Speaker 2: Again another story, Flashpoint, another story about multiversal craziness, so
Speaker 2: very funny. Flash tells him that, hey, the Mi T
Speaker 2: admissions person was here in New York at this MIT
Speaker 2: party for people in the New York area who'd been
Speaker 2: accepted MIT. But they're currently getting back on a plane.
Speaker 2: Maybe you can catch them. So Pete swings across town,
Speaker 2: finds the MIT person's car on the Queensboro Bridge on
Speaker 2: the Queensboro Bridge night and is about to pitch Ned
Speaker 2: and MJ getting into MIT when bomb bomb bomb Doctor
Speaker 2: Octopus strikes Hello, Peter, Now Pete.
Speaker 1: A really fun action scene fight.
Speaker 2: Pete manages to neutralize a doc OC because the stark
Speaker 2: nanoparticles of his suit get into Doc's tentacles, and he
Speaker 2: manages to hack it and basically bluetooth Parrot to his
Speaker 2: own suit and he takes control of it. Pete talks
Speaker 2: to the admissions person and she's like, Wow, you're a hero.
Speaker 2: You saved all the people on this bridge. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: talk to MIT admissions and I'm gonna put a good
Speaker 2: word in, maybe even for you too. Maybe you're all
Speaker 2: going to MIT's been great. Just then a pumpkin bomb
Speaker 2: hits the pavement and we hear that William default laugh
Speaker 2: and here comes the Green Goblin. Octavia says, Norman, is
Speaker 2: that you, And just as another fight is about to
Speaker 2: break out, Strange portals everybody to the Sanctum and everybody's safe.
Speaker 2: Back at Sanctum, where doctor Octopus is now like in
Speaker 2: a little holding cell, Strange lays out the problem.
Speaker 1: Okay, here's what happened, Pete.
Speaker 2: Instead of erasing everybody who had a memory of Peter
Speaker 2: Parker as Spider Man, you're, you know, messing around, caused
Speaker 2: everyone who knows who is Spider Man to come to
Speaker 2: this universe. So that includes a bunch of Spider Man's villains.
Speaker 2: And so Spider Man, I'm giving you a job.
Speaker 1: One.
Speaker 2: Here is this magic Golden Goop gauntlet that when you
Speaker 2: spray multiversal variance with it, it transports them here to my
Speaker 2: holding cells and two find all of these uh you know,
Speaker 2: trespassers in our dimension and capture them so we can
Speaker 2: send them home. It's basically that it's the Pokemon doctrine.
Speaker 2: You got to catch them all. And Peter's like, Peter's like, okay,
Speaker 2: I'll do it, but I have my team. It's got
Speaker 2: to be Ned and MJ helping me, and doctor She's
Speaker 2: like whatever, just go fucking do it.
Speaker 1: So they go do it.
Speaker 2: And Peter goes and tracks down Sandman Electro and it
Speaker 2: goes pretty well at first. He manages to put them
Speaker 2: in their little holding cells, but then Norman Osborne, who
Speaker 2: had I guess managed to rest control of his fractured
Speaker 2: Psyche from the Green Goblin, wanders into May's community Center
Speaker 2: Feast in search of aid. And moved by Norman's vulnerability
Speaker 2: and his clear distress and by May's generosity and saying,
Speaker 2: we got to help this guy, Peter brings Norman to
Speaker 2: the Sanctum not as a prisoner, and he's got all
Speaker 2: these new ideas, this new approach that's he's considering, and
Speaker 2: it's something like this, shouldn't we do something more for
Speaker 2: them right then? Just like send them back blind into
Speaker 2: their dimension, considering the fact that they're here is like
Speaker 2: our fault. We did this, right, It's kind of our fault,
Speaker 2: like doctor strangeond we do this. Doctor Strange, you know,
Speaker 2: MUCKs around with stuff all the time, and he is
Speaker 2: not really he's not a fan of this new approach.
Speaker 2: His thing is like, they don't belong here. We should
Speaker 2: just send him back, right, let's just send it back.
Speaker 2: What do we even? What are we talking about? And
Speaker 2: then Octavius is like, well, guess what actually, like Norman
Speaker 2: dies like when you send it back, like a lot
Speaker 2: of it. And then our interdimensional trespassers all figure out
Speaker 2: that oh, actually we all, we all kind of do die.
Speaker 3: Literally the moment, the moment that they're plucked is the
Speaker 3: moment that they were about to die.
Speaker 2: I should mention that doctor Strange, off camera, had already
Speaker 2: captured Doctor Connor as the Lizard, so he's already in
Speaker 2: a holding cell when he, you know, is taken back
Speaker 2: to the sanctum after the fight with doctor Ocubus. So
Speaker 2: Spider Man is like, you know what, we can't do this.
Speaker 2: I don't agree that we should just send them back.
Speaker 2: We should try and help them. Doctor Strange has now
Speaker 2: a cube that he's put the captured spell in, and
Speaker 2: if you just press a button, they all go back
Speaker 2: like immediately, everybody just goes back, and Peter's like, give
Speaker 2: me that steals a cube, and now a chase ensues.
Speaker 1: A Strange knocks.
Speaker 2: Peter out of his body into the astral plane, much
Speaker 2: like happens to Hulk in an endgame, but in a
Speaker 2: really cool kind of like expansion of Spider Man's Spider
Speaker 2: Sense lore. He can't take the cube from Spider Man's
Speaker 2: inert body because Spidey Sense is still active and won't
Speaker 2: let him take it, which is really cool. I thought, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really rad.
Speaker 3: And then also like there's a hint at kind of
Speaker 3: Peter's innate powers because he just swims his his konji,
Speaker 3: his consciousness just swims back into his spider body and.
Speaker 1: He's like peace out.
Speaker 3: So it's not even just like the Spider Sense is
Speaker 3: so cool, but it's also like there's something about Peter
Speaker 3: whare he is a good something more, there's something more,
Speaker 3: And then that kind of translates to Strange puts him
Speaker 3: in that mirror dimension, which Strange think, He's like.
Speaker 1: Here, I'm all power. I have home court advantage, I
Speaker 1: mean control.
Speaker 3: And then Peter realizes that the mirror dimension is oldest geography,
Speaker 3: and he's like, oh, I'm really good at the geometry. Yeah,
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm really good at this, I'm really good
Speaker 3: at maths, like I can do this.
Speaker 1: And he and he webs him up.
Speaker 2: It's perfect, you know, like you would think, oh, strange
Speaker 2: in the mirror to mension, this is home court advantage.
Speaker 1: Ha ha ha has.
Speaker 2: As wise comics readers, Rosy and I would note true
Speaker 2: home court advantage is whose comic slash movie is it.
Speaker 2: It's spider Man's movie, motherfucker. So of course spider Man
Speaker 2: beats Doctor Strange. Now Here is where we should say
Speaker 2: spider Man is a hero. But you know, heroism should
Speaker 2: be tempered with reasonable caution. But Peter, as doctor Strange
Speaker 2: notes all throughout the movie, is still just a kid.
Speaker 2: And so Peter's decision is, I'm gonna take some of
Speaker 2: my most iconic super villains Norman Osborne, Electro Sandman, and
Speaker 2: Doctor Octopus back to Happy's condo to hang out with
Speaker 2: it at May so we can all science away that
Speaker 2: allows them to go back to their dimensions safely. Peter
Speaker 2: makes a replacement ship for ox Tentacle rig which filters
Speaker 2: out the influence of the tentacles from doctor Octopus's mind.
Speaker 2: It goes great. Now all of a sudden, Octavius is
Speaker 2: just like his regular old, brilliant, non evil self. This
Speaker 2: is all going great. And as they're working on an
Speaker 2: anti serum antidote for Green Goblin, guess what, Peter Spidey
Speaker 2: sense goes off and it turns out that at some
Speaker 2: point Goblin had gotten control of Norman Osborne's body, but
Speaker 2: has been like kind of laying low waiting for his
Speaker 2: time to strike. But guess what his time to strike
Speaker 2: is now? Big fight breaks out. Electro Lizard and Sandman
Speaker 2: and Octavius all flee the scene. Norman is just insanely powerful.
Speaker 2: He pummels Peter all through the condo buildings, down through
Speaker 2: the floors of the building into the lobby.
Speaker 1: It's a great action scene. Yeah, what's a good web action?
Speaker 3: There's like, what's a good flipping And it's really really great,
Speaker 3: very brutal actually personally.
Speaker 2: Very very brutal, awesome Spider Man versus the Green Goblin fight.
Speaker 2: May courageously is about to defend her nephew when Goblin
Speaker 2: remote Pilots has sled into May, which knocks her hard
Speaker 2: to the ground. He gets on his sled and flies off,
Speaker 2: flinging a pumpkin bomb like in his wake to destroy
Speaker 2: Peter and aunt May. Peter managed to shield May, and
Speaker 2: he realizes in this moment that like, look at this destruction.
Speaker 2: I was wrong. I should have just let Strange send
Speaker 2: them all back, even if it's to their death. That's
Speaker 2: none of our business. They don't belong here, They're in
Speaker 2: the wrong dimension. Stranger's right. May May is like, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you're wrong. You have this gift, this is your responsibility
Speaker 2: as the person who brought them here. And with great
Speaker 2: power that you have, the great power that you have,
Speaker 2: comes great responsibility.
Speaker 1: You have to help them. And this really hits Peter.
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, as her as the
Speaker 2: adrenaline from this crazy fight that she's witnessed fades, she
Speaker 2: collapses and were re realize that she's mortally wounded, much
Speaker 2: more seriously injured than we thought, and heartbreakingly she passes.
Speaker 2: She dies, She passes rip Aunt May, and her passing
Speaker 2: absolutely destroys Peter, just brings him to his absolute lowest
Speaker 2: point that we've seen in mcuh it is it's just
Speaker 2: wildly heartbreaking, and we should add as an addendum to this,
Speaker 2: we called it. We called it that with you, called
Speaker 2: that we were going to get in this movie, with
Speaker 2: great power comes great responsibility.
Speaker 3: And they did a really cool thing where we said,
Speaker 3: we said that we felt like it was going to
Speaker 3: come from like Aunt May's perspective, and they did that
Speaker 3: in a really dark way where it's aunt May who's
Speaker 3: actually the one who says it, and they even you us.
Speaker 3: We talked last week about like the the comics accurate caption,
Speaker 3: which is like, with great power, there must also come
Speaker 3: great responsibility, and that's what she says to him. She says,
Speaker 3: you know, with great power, that also comes great responsibility.
Speaker 3: So it's even more accurate than we've seen before. And
Speaker 3: it was just this it.
Speaker 1: Was so good, Like I was so good.
Speaker 3: I love Marissa, so I'm really sad about it, but
Speaker 3: like it was so good.
Speaker 2: I mean, for like a real tour de force acting wise,
Speaker 2: because Tom and Marissa make you feel it here, you
Speaker 2: feel it you It is an incredibly earned and and
Speaker 2: emotional death scene and it, I mean, it really rocks you,
Speaker 2: like there's part of the magic of this movie is
Speaker 2: obviously like it's an incredible wild adventure with multiple like
Speaker 2: multiversal characters all like smashing into the Marvel universe in
Speaker 2: this wild way. But also it's a really great did
Speaker 2: like character and relationship movie that really breaks your heart
Speaker 2: in a million different ways.
Speaker 3: It's like it's really interestingly contained. Even this action is
Speaker 3: like in the apartment building and then there's another big
Speaker 3: action sequence we'll get to but like it's this really
Speaker 3: contained human drama, and I mean, I know we'll get
Speaker 3: to it. But like Tom Holland is this is like
Speaker 3: a career best.
Speaker 1: He crushes it.
Speaker 2: He he really crushes it in this He's so good if.
Speaker 1: He made you cry.
Speaker 3: And in the Infinity War scene, you know, like mister
Speaker 3: Stark like I don't want to go.
Speaker 1: You know this is going to get you here for
Speaker 1: the whole movie.
Speaker 2: The entire movie, because it really is like Peter's you know,
Speaker 2: existential like anxiety and his his innate goodness, the fact
Speaker 2: that he just doesn't want to affect other people, like
Speaker 2: he wants to be a superhero, but when it spills
Speaker 2: over into affecting his friends, it's it causes him to
Speaker 2: act and obviously in that sense, like nobody has been
Speaker 2: a bigger influence in his life than it may.
Speaker 1: He loves her and this is just it wrecks him.
Speaker 2: Ned and MJ that now the news of that is
Speaker 2: all over the place on TV everywhere.
Speaker 1: Ned and MJ see this, and they know their friend
Speaker 1: needs them.
Speaker 2: So Ned had at some point, like during this doctor
Speaker 2: Strange fight, had Cad Stranges slingering. Strange, by the way,
Speaker 2: is trapped in the mirror dimension at this time, and
Speaker 2: Ned realizes suddenly that true to family lore, he can actually,
Speaker 2: it seems, do magic stuff. And concentrating on their need
Speaker 2: to help their friend Peter, Ned says, I need to
Speaker 2: see my friend Peter. And he casts a portal and
Speaker 2: it opens and they're Spider Man in an alley and
Speaker 2: Spider Man sees the portal and he waited. He's like what,
Speaker 2: and they're like, Peter, come here, Peter, and Peter comes
Speaker 2: and he jumps through the portal and it's Andrew Garfield.
Speaker 1: Crowd goes fucking why, I mean, theater goes. It absolutely
Speaker 1: fucking explodes. I hope that.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're listening to this, you've hopefully already
Speaker 3: seen it. Yeah, if you're fit. It didn't have that reaction.
Speaker 3: Find the nearest theits.
Speaker 1: You find, go see it again.
Speaker 3: And busiest screen and go and see it because this
Speaker 3: is that movie. Like we see a lot of press
Speaker 3: movies and like yes screenings, and there's ones where you
Speaker 3: get those big reactions and there's one way you don't.
Speaker 3: But that was like people are giving round of a pause.
Speaker 3: There's like it's the Oscars.
Speaker 1: People are like, yeah.
Speaker 2: When it when the portal opens and you see Spider
Speaker 2: Man in the suit turn around, and then it was
Speaker 2: like that murmur of oh shit, this is it.
Speaker 1: Cure it is, it's it. And then when he.
Speaker 2: Pulls off the mask, it's like, ah, it was great.
Speaker 2: And then so they're like, Okay, this is weird.
Speaker 1: Who are you? Are you really Peter Parker?
Speaker 2: They do this is really wonderful scene in which they
Speaker 2: ask him to prove it by like crawling around, and
Speaker 2: he's like.
Speaker 1: Do I need a crawl around?
Speaker 2: I'm already hanging from the ceiling. Do I need to
Speaker 2: do all this stuff? And MJ's like bread rolls at him,
Speaker 2: had to see if he does this like Peter Tingle,
Speaker 2: and if so, then they cast another portal Okay, let's
Speaker 2: get let's try again.
Speaker 1: We got we gotta find Peter. He needs this. Let's
Speaker 1: do it. And who steps through but Tomy McGuire.
Speaker 2: Crowd goes wild again. Theater explodes again.
Speaker 1: He's he's wearing casual clothes. They haven't daged him.
Speaker 3: This is like Uncle Peter, he's he's there, he wants
Speaker 3: to help mcu Peter, he wants he feels like there's
Speaker 3: a Spider sense that.
Speaker 1: Means he knows, yes, that Peter needs him. And it's
Speaker 1: just this.
Speaker 3: I was so ready to go into this movie and
Speaker 3: worry that it was going to be this kind of
Speaker 3: cynical look what we own, but they did this so well.
Speaker 3: I was like incredibly surprised by how well the Spider
Speaker 3: Man's stuff works.
Speaker 2: You know, Garfield and McGuire, but particularly McGuire, they are older,
Speaker 2: they're wiser, they are slightly damaged by their time as
Speaker 2: clearly their adventuress as Spider Man has continued, like in
Speaker 2: their reality past what we know in the movies. So
Speaker 2: they are just different people and they are exactly the
Speaker 2: perspective that Peter needs.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: So MJ again, this was done so well, and the
Speaker 2: chemistry from the Spider Man, and the rest of the
Speaker 2: cast is like incredible. It's just they nailed this, and
Speaker 2: they needed to nail it, and they killed it with this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they let Toby gets to be this kind
Speaker 3: of composed adult PM that he never was. Yes, and
Speaker 3: we learned that he kind of still is with MJ
Speaker 3: in this way.
Speaker 1: And then Garfield has this like manic emo energy that's
Speaker 1: kind of this.
Speaker 3: It feels really true to the character we saw, but
Speaker 3: it's also like a funny methatext.
Speaker 1: On him being emo spider Man. Yeah, because he's like it.
Speaker 2: Increasingly, as we get to know Andrew Garfield, spider let's
Speaker 2: call him a spider Man, spider Man three require spider
Speaker 2: Man two, we realize that he feels a real sense
Speaker 2: of inferiority as he realizes the stuff that the other
Speaker 2: Spider Man has done. And in addition to you know,
Speaker 2: the fact that his MJ died he wasn't able to
Speaker 2: save her. There is a real hole in his heart
Speaker 2: because of these things. He talks about it over the
Speaker 2: course of the day, and he even as we get
Speaker 2: to know him, he's a more ragefull Spider Man because
Speaker 2: he's hurt, he's wounded.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he even, like, you know, Jason mentioned my MJ.
Speaker 3: That's actually what he references Gwen as, because he knows
Speaker 3: that's how the other two Spider Man will relate to it, right, So,
Speaker 3: and he says, yeah, he's kind of got that Spider
Speaker 3: Man rain, like Dark Spider Man. He says, you know,
Speaker 3: he became bitter, rage full.
Speaker 2: He he's stopped pulling his punches.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he stopped pulling his punches, you know. So it's
Speaker 3: really interesting to see them have so much fun with
Speaker 3: these different iterations of Spider Man. And as the movie
Speaker 3: goes on, I mean, they do a really good job
Speaker 3: of bringing closure to these stories. So MJ and Ned
Speaker 3: lead the Peters to their Peter. The Peters share their
Speaker 3: story of Uncle Ben, who you know, our Peter Parker
Speaker 3: does not have, but who died in much the same
Speaker 3: way as Peter's aunt May and became this obviously catalytic
Speaker 3: force that allowed the Peters to unlock the full power
Speaker 3: of their heroism. And the two Peters tell Peter like this,
Speaker 3: May died for a reason. It wasn't for no reason.
Speaker 3: It's the same reason that our uncle Ben died. And
Speaker 3: so this this lifts Peter and the three Peters pick
Speaker 3: up where the original science mission picked off. They start
Speaker 3: designing these devices that will allow them to depower each
Speaker 3: of the interdimensional trespassers so they can send them safely
Speaker 3: back to their dimension. Peter then sends a video to
Speaker 3: the Daily Bugle in which he talks about, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: did this. I brought these trespassers here and if they
Speaker 3: want to find me, I'll be at the Statue of
Speaker 3: Liberty of hanging out there, I'm waiting for it.
Speaker 1: Yet this box.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and with the box that they don't want me
Speaker 2: to push the button because I will send them all back.
Speaker 1: I know they want to stay here.
Speaker 2: So he's effectively lured them to the Statue of Liberty,
Speaker 2: which by the way, has now been retrofitted with a
Speaker 2: caps shield.
Speaker 1: A big fight ensues.
Speaker 2: At the Statue of Liberty, and we get this wonderful
Speaker 2: character moment where Andrew, who has again felt insecure about
Speaker 2: his role as Spider and compared to the other two
Speaker 2: and who you know failed Gwen gets to save MJ
Speaker 2: in this universe and man Garfield again we talk about
Speaker 2: Tom Holland Garfield gives it to you, so he saves
Speaker 2: so MJ falling off the scaffolding Peter Parker six one
Speaker 2: six Peter Parker one gets tries to save her, but
Speaker 2: gets hit out of the way by the Green Goblin,
Speaker 2: and Garfield, recognizing again this mirror image of the thing
Speaker 2: that happened in his universe, swings into action saves her life.
Speaker 2: And there's this moment where he's like, are you okay?
Speaker 2: And when he realizes she is, he starts crying and
Speaker 2: it is it got me, It got.
Speaker 1: Me me too.
Speaker 3: And then and Zendeia, who is just, by the way,
Speaker 3: so amazing in this We haven't even really like given
Speaker 3: her her problem, yes, but like she's so good. She's
Speaker 3: so funny, she's so emotional, she's so heartfelt. She's bringing
Speaker 3: that Emmy winner depth to this role. But like Andrew's
Speaker 3: you know, he doesn't wear her this time. He catches
Speaker 3: her in the arms because you learn his lesson, and
Speaker 3: he's like are you okay? And he starts crying. And
Speaker 3: then when he starts crying, she looks at him and
Speaker 3: she's like, are you okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh dude, that was really that was the It was
Speaker 3: one bearing up. It got me like in the chest.
Speaker 3: Like Andrew is such.
Speaker 1: A good actor. I mean it's like he's so.
Speaker 2: Good in this and there's real I mean, this is
Speaker 2: kind of like, this is the real magic of this movie.
Speaker 2: This is a movie that ties up emotional loose ends
Speaker 2: from previous Spider Man movies in a way that feels like.
Speaker 1: Really really earned.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is one of the just like the
Speaker 2: big emotions.
Speaker 3: That's actually definitely something that I think it does so
Speaker 3: well that I wasn't expecting.
Speaker 1: Everyone gets to have their moment.
Speaker 3: I think by this point, you know, Toby's pet has
Speaker 3: already seen Doc off my dear boy. You know, there's
Speaker 3: these like every Jamie and Andrew get to have that moment.
Speaker 3: There's this there's this tying up of loose ends emotionally
Speaker 3: and narratively that the wonder if he's never got to have.
Speaker 1: It's really really wonderful and really magic.
Speaker 2: So at the end of this big fight, Sandman has
Speaker 2: been deepowered, Lizard has been deepowered, Electro has been deepowered.
Speaker 2: And at the end it's Peter one Tom Holland versus
Speaker 2: the Green Goblin. And you know, Peter is full of
Speaker 2: anger and vengeance and he wants to enact that vengeance
Speaker 2: on the Green Goblin who killed Aunt May and he
Speaker 2: lifts the Green Goblins sled and he's about to mark
Speaker 2: them with it when Toby Maguire Peter Too, stops him
Speaker 2: and he's like, hey, don't do this, Like I wouldn't
Speaker 2: want you to do this. Remember what May said, I
Speaker 2: just like talking Peter out of it. Green Goblin stabs
Speaker 2: him in the backs Stoli in the back, uh and uh.
Speaker 2: In that moment, Garfield swings down throws Peter One the antidote.
Speaker 2: Peter One, De Goblin's Norman uh Strange then arrives and
Speaker 2: he's gonna send them back.
Speaker 1: But now we've.
Speaker 2: Got the issue of as he's about to send them
Speaker 2: all back, there's now an infinite number of people throughout
Speaker 2: the dimensions who know who Peter Parker is, and they
Speaker 2: are coming crashing into this dimension and it's destroying reality.
Speaker 2: And then this kind of like broken sky you see.
Speaker 2: I saw Craven, I saw a Scorpion. I couldn't make
Speaker 2: out anybody else, but those were there.
Speaker 3: There's like a bold headed person who, there's Rhino, there's
Speaker 3: there's When that this comes out on Disney Plus or DVD,
Speaker 3: we'll be able to pause it and see the outlines
Speaker 3: of these characters. Because the truth is that when strangers
Speaker 3: first messing up the spell, we see the outline of Lizard.
Speaker 3: So they set up this idea that you can see
Speaker 3: who these people might be. And obviously, as we know
Speaker 3: from the comics, literally every single person in the call
Speaker 3: makes knows Peter Parker Spider Man, so it could really
Speaker 3: be anyone coming.
Speaker 2: So Peter now realizes, Okay, this mistake, miscalculation that that
Speaker 2: I made is now threatening to like actually destroy the world.
Speaker 2: So okay, run the original spell. Erase me from existence,
Speaker 2: no caveats, Just erase me, erase everyone's memory.
Speaker 1: That I ever get. Yeah, He's like, not even just
Speaker 1: that I'm Spider Man.
Speaker 2: Just people will forget that Peter Parker ever existed. I'm
Speaker 2: gone from everybody's memory. And Straining is like are you sure,
Speaker 2: and he's at yeah, it gets a little sary. He's like, yes, absolutely,
Speaker 2: do it. So strangers like, okay, it's gonna take me
Speaker 2: like a minute and a half to run this spell.
Speaker 2: Say goodbye to everybody now, So he says goodbye to
Speaker 2: his his alternate egos, uh Peter. Two and three, he
Speaker 2: says goodbye to Ned and he says, really tearful wonderful
Speaker 2: goodbye that will again just really get you.
Speaker 1: To MJ. They admit their love for each other.
Speaker 2: It's one of those moments where you're like, you know,
Speaker 2: watching it, I'm like, oh, their love will transcend this spell.
Speaker 2: They'll remember, there'll be some kind of inkling about, like
Speaker 2: she'll see him and there'll be some kind of spark
Speaker 2: of recognition and it'll be there.
Speaker 3: And my favorite part is like MJ's like, you have
Speaker 3: to come find me. Yeah, And if you don't, I
Speaker 3: will work it out. And if I work it out
Speaker 3: before you and I find you in trouble, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: suck you up. Trouble is you need to find me
Speaker 3: and tell me what happened. Strange casts the spell and
Speaker 3: and it works. It absolutely works a rass everyone's memory
Speaker 3: of Peter Parker. Peter goes to see MJ and there
Speaker 3: is no spark of recognition. Ned is there.
Speaker 2: Ned comes in. They got into m I t they're
Speaker 2: talking about it. Peter orders a coffee. He talks to
Speaker 2: her a little bit. He's got a speech he prepared,
Speaker 2: but in the end he can't. He decides, you know what,
Speaker 2: our love for each other is there. I love her,
Speaker 2: but It's safer this way, isn't it. Their lives are happy,
Speaker 2: and it's it's my time to be a hero. I've
Speaker 2: got this great power. I need to take responsibility and
Speaker 2: not bring everybody into my mess. And he decides, and
Speaker 2: it's a very tough decision, you could tell. He decides
Speaker 2: not to not to talk to MJ about their past.
Speaker 2: He goes to May's grave and there he runs into Happy.
Speaker 2: Happy also does not remember Peter, but he's obviously very
Speaker 2: heartbroken for May. And so then Peter goes off. He
Speaker 2: gets a little apartment that everyone who has ever read
Speaker 2: a Spiderman comic will recognize.
Speaker 1: With the Spider Man comics.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get broke Peter in his tiny apartment now,
Speaker 2: and he begins, you know, looking at police scanners looking
Speaker 2: for crime in New York City, and it's time to
Speaker 2: become the hero that he was always meant to be, truly,
Speaker 2: And then we go to our stingers.
Speaker 1: Stinger one. He wondered what happened at the end of
Speaker 1: Let there be Carnridge? Where here it is?
Speaker 2: Eddie Brock is sitting there drinking at a bar in Mexico,
Speaker 2: trying to make sense of this entire superhero situation, like
Speaker 2: he's in this new universe. There's a lot of superheroes here,
Speaker 2: you say, And Danny from ted Lasso is his bartender, yeah,
Speaker 2: and is explaining all.
Speaker 1: This stuff to him.
Speaker 2: And just when it comes time for Eddie Brock to
Speaker 2: pay the bill, guess what Strange's spell sending all the
Speaker 2: interdimensional trespassers back to their world kicks in and he disappears,
Speaker 2: and he's gone, along with Venom.
Speaker 1: They're gone back to their dimension. But oh, oh wait a.
Speaker 2: Second, A small doll up of Venom attached to like
Speaker 2: the Margarita glass, remains on the bar and twitches a
Speaker 2: little bit, so is still active. Yes, the cymbia is
Speaker 2: in the The symbia is in the MCU Stinger two
Speaker 2: just a full trailer for doctor Strange in the Multiverse
Speaker 2: of Madness. And this is the first we were talking
Speaker 2: about this after the movie. This is the first time
Speaker 2: the end Stinger has been a full train since the
Speaker 2: trailer for the Avengers in Captain America, the first Avenger.
Speaker 3: And that was really before they'd established the mid credits
Speaker 3: post credits as a classic thing. So the trailer was
Speaker 3: more just like, oh, here's a trailer at the end,
Speaker 3: you know, so it's really interesting to see them go
Speaker 3: back to that and this was like, this is like.
Speaker 2: A long trailer, a long, big trailer with a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff in it.
Speaker 1: You see America javes, America javes so much wonder You.
Speaker 2: See Wander in her classic scarlet witch costume.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is she and what man wondergll you see schumagoraf
Speaker 3: ak what they're probably gonna call gag antos. We know now,
Speaker 3: like it's a lot and I'm assuming that this weekend
Speaker 3: or Monday they'll probably release it, yes, once people have.
Speaker 1: Seen it in the theater and watched it.
Speaker 3: But the kind of really funny implication about the Stinger
Speaker 3: is there's a lot of stuff from that What If
Speaker 3: episode four in there. But the funny implication is, so
Speaker 3: nobody knows who Peter Barker is, which means probably no
Speaker 3: one knows why doctor Strange did this spell that created
Speaker 3: the multiverse so seemingly most of us have madness. Is
Speaker 3: him basically having to deal with the fallout of doing
Speaker 3: a spell for someone he doesn't remember.
Speaker 1: Because everyone's like, hey, why did you do the spell?
Speaker 1: And he's like he's.
Speaker 2: Up next, More Spider Man. We are back with more
Speaker 2: Spider Man, No Way Home. Now that we've recapped this that,
Speaker 2: let's dive into some of these things.
Speaker 1: First of all, I loved this movie. I loved how.
Speaker 2: Old fashioned comics it was, you know, like really old
Speaker 2: fashioned comic book stuff.
Speaker 1: It's the most comics accurate Spider Man.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, like the pure, almost hokey idea of heroism and
Speaker 2: sacrifice and what that means, taking responsibility for your actions,
Speaker 2: taking responsibility for super villains who have hurt you and
Speaker 2: have hurt other people because it's your responsibility that they're here.
Speaker 1: Like that.
Speaker 2: All of that is pure, pure Spider Man in the
Speaker 2: most old fashioned, like original nineteen sixties depiction of Spider Man.
Speaker 1: Way, and it felt really good.
Speaker 3: It's very silver age, it's very there's these huge, sweeping
Speaker 3: emotional moments, but there's also this legitimate, like funny comedy
Speaker 3: the stuff with the Spider Man. They really are in
Speaker 3: this humor that is so there with with Spider Man.
Speaker 3: It's always like he's broke, which they also play into
Speaker 3: here which they haven't really done before, which is fun.
Speaker 3: He's broke and he's also sad, but he's also like
Speaker 3: a funny, nerdy dude who can make a joke or
Speaker 3: do maths and beat doctor Strange. And this really I
Speaker 3: wasn't expecting this to be such a great Spider Man movie.
Speaker 3: And I really think, like in my spoiler free review,
Speaker 3: that was my biggest thing, is like I can't talk
Speaker 3: about all the things that you want to know about,
Speaker 3: but I can tell you that if you want to
Speaker 3: see a really great Spider Man.
Speaker 1: Movie, you're not going to be disappointed.
Speaker 2: If you love Spider Man, if you love Spider Man comics,
Speaker 2: if you've ever liked a Spider Man movie, you'll fucking
Speaker 2: love this movie at period, you will love it. Okay,
Speaker 2: some questions, how does the spell erasing the memory of
Speaker 2: Spider Man as Peter Parker, How does it work?
Speaker 1: So I went back. This is kind of based on.
Speaker 2: The one One More Day slash A Brand New Day
Speaker 2: kind of paradigm. The first part of that is a
Speaker 2: controversial for the time arc in which, in the wake
Speaker 2: of Civil war, during which Peter had revealed his identity
Speaker 2: to the world at Tony Stark's behest because he was
Speaker 2: pro registration, his life becomes terrible. Kingpin orders a hit
Speaker 2: on him at the bullet meant for him hits Aunt May.
Speaker 1: He's at a crossroads.
Speaker 2: He needs to erase his memory, so he makes a
Speaker 2: deal with Mephisto erasing his memory that also erases like
Speaker 2: the possibility that he and MJ would you know, it
Speaker 2: basically erases their relationship and also like eliminates the future
Speaker 2: daughter that they.
Speaker 1: Were gonna have.
Speaker 2: And then in the Brand New Day paradigm we kind
Speaker 2: of see how that plays out. Yeah, and so I
Speaker 2: think it'll work like this because all the evidence that
Speaker 2: Peter Parker with Spider Man still exists, Like if people
Speaker 2: mysterios videos still exists on the Daily Bugle hard drive somewhere,
Speaker 2: like j J. Jamison might accidentally like run across and
Speaker 2: be like, oh, what the fuck is this? Similarly, MJ
Speaker 2: and Ned could like go in their phone and see
Speaker 2: all these pictures of them hanging out with their heart.
Speaker 2: Who is this?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: The way it works in the comics is not only
Speaker 2: is the memory erased, but if they are faced with, oh,
Speaker 2: Peter Parker, who is this? They just kind of will
Speaker 2: lose interest. So if someone shows Ned and MJ, here
Speaker 2: is you hanging out with this guy Peter Parker, they'll
Speaker 2: just be like, oh, that's interesting and then not.
Speaker 1: Care about it. That's how it would work. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how it work.
Speaker 3: I think that's a good call because like the ending
Speaker 3: of the movie, which is so hour ful, where Peter
Speaker 3: goes and sees MJ and they kind of there's a
Speaker 3: there's a something like a conversation, a connection, but he
Speaker 3: makes the choice that's very Brand New Day where she's like,
Speaker 3: you know, we knew each other in another life or whatever,
Speaker 3: but it's never a there's no recollection of the deal.
Speaker 3: And so I think Brand New Day is obviously like
Speaker 3: Dan Slot gets a thanks in the movie, so this
Speaker 3: is obviously a big inspiration that ending. I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: they're really doing it, like this is.
Speaker 1: Pete on his own.
Speaker 3: And also, so the really controversial thing about that was,
Speaker 3: you know, Peter and MJ married. The editors at the
Speaker 3: time didn't allegedly didn't like Peter and MDA being married,
Speaker 3: didn't like hens.
Speaker 2: Thought it's stimy there stymy growth as a character.
Speaker 3: And the wild thing is that these comics came out,
Speaker 3: you know in the zeros, like Brand New Day was
Speaker 3: like yeah, and Brand New Day came out in like
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, and Mary Jane and Peter have
Speaker 3: still never actually been clinically together properly after those comics.
Speaker 3: So I love mj and Peter in the MCU, but
Speaker 3: I do think that they're going to use this as
Speaker 3: a space to introduce a Gwen Stacy or you know,
Speaker 3: many of any of Peter's kind of many different love interests.
Speaker 3: And it makes me sad because I feel like they
Speaker 3: were so sweet together. But like in a weird way,
Speaker 3: this movie is kind of something I think is really
Speaker 3: cool about this movie.
Speaker 1: I didn't expect.
Speaker 3: We never got a Peter Parker MCU origin, which worked
Speaker 3: really well at the time because you don't need it.
Speaker 3: We've seen that origin a lot of times. Right, this
Speaker 3: movie actually works as an origin. We leave him where
Speaker 3: most Peter Parkers begin.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you mentioned that because it really is crazy. Again,
Speaker 2: like when I say, like, I felt the same way
Speaker 2: I felt about Endgame watching this movie, because it's like
Speaker 2: kind of a miracle structurally, like how they did it.
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right, this is a Spider Man origin story
Speaker 2: in the MCU in five movie, here's a third.
Speaker 1: Spider Man movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So not only does he confirm that he was
Speaker 3: bitten by a spider, which we never heard in the
Speaker 3: MCU before. We also get there with great power moment
Speaker 3: and we leave him. You know, he's in his broken
Speaker 3: down apartment, he's got his ged book, he's not going
Speaker 3: to college, and he makes his own suit and it's
Speaker 3: this beautiful bright blue, bright red suit.
Speaker 1: That he's sewed on a machine. So somehow this movie
Speaker 1: ends up being an origin story. It's wild.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the spell is such a smart way for
Speaker 3: them to basically do what they in Ultimate Spider Man.
Speaker 3: You know, Peter died and then you had Miles, but
Speaker 3: then Peter came back. But MCU has always been more grounded,
Speaker 3: even in this weird magical space. There's lots of good
Speaker 3: magic jokes in this movie too, So I think this
Speaker 3: is a really smart way of basically, you write Peter
Speaker 3: Parker the person out now, and you can still have
Speaker 3: Spider Man the figurehead, and then when you need Peter
Speaker 3: to come back for that impactful moment, whether it's a
Speaker 3: Miles moment or an MJ moment or whatever, he can
Speaker 3: come back as Peter Parker. So okay, so I have
Speaker 3: a question, who do you think still remembers pa Because
Speaker 3: I believe that's probably one past.
Speaker 2: There's gonna be one person, right, there's gonna be the
Speaker 2: one magical, somehow person that remembers Peter. Okay, so this
Speaker 2: dovetails into my one note. So there's a brief line
Speaker 2: of exchange where strangers like, you fucked up my spell
Speaker 2: five times, and then Peter is like, actually no, it's six, yes,
Speaker 2: six times. Right, So Venom never actually comes into the action, right,
Speaker 2: we only see him in the center, but he's clearly
Speaker 2: the sixth So of course, like, how would Venom know
Speaker 2: about Peter Parker? It's probably because of HiveMind. The hive
Speaker 2: mind allows the parasite to have the memories of all
Speaker 2: the other like bits of parasite that are across the universe.
Speaker 2: And like in Spider Man three, that parasite knew that
Speaker 2: Peter Parker was YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 1: That's how they came.
Speaker 2: So Strange banishes all the trespassers, But this dollop of
Speaker 2: Venom stays behind. Now does it make sense that you
Speaker 2: because it's magic, so.
Speaker 1: You can't really evade it.
Speaker 2: It theoretically doesn't make sense that this drop of venom
Speaker 2: remained behind. But what if this venom is the one
Speaker 2: that remembers like like why would it stay? Yes, if
Speaker 2: it if it binged to evade this part of the magic,
Speaker 2: the magic that banished all the trespassers, then potentially it
Speaker 2: evaded the magic that erased the memory of Peter Parker
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: That's actually really true because technically Eddie Brook should have
Speaker 3: been able to stay and the venom should have had
Speaker 3: to leave because the venom was the thing that knew
Speaker 3: Peter Parker. But if it evaded this magic, maybe because
Speaker 3: it was disconnected from the sentient body or whatever. So
Speaker 3: the magic that's really smart because we talked a lot
Speaker 3: about this, like off the movie and stuff. Obviously, what
Speaker 3: Kevin Faigi wanted from Sony was the was the symb.
Speaker 1: You called.
Speaker 2: Also, there's another thing that you called is like that
Speaker 2: said Tom Hardy back to the Sony.
Speaker 1: Ratting him in these movies, Dude, I love that. Tom
Speaker 1: Hardy was like, fine, you're not gonna let me in
Speaker 1: the movie. I'm gonna venom so hard.
Speaker 3: I'm actually gonna venom harder in this segment than I
Speaker 3: venomed even in both.
Speaker 1: In the.
Speaker 3: Incredible he's saying he's calling Tony Stark a tin man
Speaker 3: he's dismissing the bartender, he's dismissing his his family getting blipped.
Speaker 3: He's like, aliens don't care about stones, they just want
Speaker 3: to eat braids. Like he's going hard. But I think
Speaker 3: you're onto something because imagine. I think the reason they
Speaker 3: want the symbia is they could do a Tom Holland
Speaker 3: Venom kind of a black suit Spider Man thing, especially
Speaker 3: now he's by himself. But I think that that's a
Speaker 3: bit I think it's a bit too close to what
Speaker 3: they've been doing already with Venom. But if the Venom
Speaker 3: symbia venomizes other characters, which is very popular in the
Speaker 3: comics and has been a really good marketing tool. Marvel
Speaker 3: sells a lot of pops that are venomized figures and stuff.
Speaker 3: Imagine if the Venom, whoever gets venomized, can remember Peter
Speaker 3: Parker while they are venomized, and that they could want
Speaker 3: to hunt down Pizza Paka, they could do also Again,
Speaker 3: this is so dumb.
Speaker 1: I have to say, we don't know if he's still
Speaker 1: going to be Peter Parker.
Speaker 3: I could see them like making it where his new
Speaker 3: name is like Ben Riley, Ben Ryle.
Speaker 1: And they do it that way, so he's not a clone,
Speaker 1: but that's like his new.
Speaker 2: Right so for those so for those who are not
Speaker 2: a deep comic readers of Spider Man, Ben and never
Speaker 2: clone saga, Ben Riley is the controversial for the time
Speaker 2: clone of Spider Man who died and then came back
Speaker 2: and is currently Spider Man right now in the com
Speaker 2: you know, read Cody Zigler's issue of the current Spider
Speaker 2: Man arc in which Ben Riley is Spider Man. Anyway,
Speaker 2: another thing we called that I guess we should talk
Speaker 2: about because there is Hawkeye is ongoing right now. Is
Speaker 2: you called Matt Murdoch in this movie. I wasn't sure,
Speaker 2: but I called that. If he was, it's gonna be
Speaker 2: Matt Murdoch from this dimension, no multidimensional Matt Murdoch, because again,
Speaker 2: his law degree would need to work in this world,
Speaker 2: and indeed it does need to work, because he is
Speaker 2: May Parker and Peter Parker's lawyer, although no longer because
Speaker 2: now he doesn't remember who they are, but he did.
Speaker 1: I think they did a really good.
Speaker 3: Job seeding, he tells happy like he says, I thought
Speaker 3: this was really funny and good as well. Where the
Speaker 3: case is not going to stick against Peter, but happy
Speaker 3: as like a representative Stark Tech. He needs a good
Speaker 3: lawyer because you are the adult. You're giving this child
Speaker 3: drones like please pay for your sins. So I think
Speaker 3: we could see Matt like as happy as lawyer. But
Speaker 3: really we know that the big the dead evil connections
Speaker 3: are going to be in the TV shows. It's going
Speaker 3: to be Echo, It's going to be Hawkeye, Kingpin, shea
Speaker 3: Hawk definitely shee howk The law connections there with Matt
Speaker 3: are going to be so clear. I couldn't see how
Speaker 3: they were going to do this just because of tonally
Speaker 3: how different it was. But as soon as Charlie Cox
Speaker 3: was on that screen, I was like, how did this
Speaker 3: not happen sooner?
Speaker 1: Because he just was beautiful in it.
Speaker 3: It was wonderful and they really went for that, like
Speaker 3: you know that recent that Charles soul Dead Evil Roun
Speaker 3: who everyone really loved and like his the tiny little
Speaker 3: red glasses that it just looked so he just fit
Speaker 3: in so well and it just made me very excited.
Speaker 2: It was legitimately two minutes and it was wonderful. Now
Speaker 2: here's my question. We're in the Daredevil Netflix lore is
Speaker 2: this taking place because I would contend that while he's
Speaker 2: probably doing Daredevil shit at this time, it's not like
Speaker 2: all the way through the seasons, because if this is
Speaker 2: this is happening, we assume concurrently with hawkeyed is Christmas season.
Speaker 2: We see the Rogers the musical billboard like up in
Speaker 2: the city, So this is happening as Clint is like
Speaker 2: and his family were in New York City attending the musical,
Speaker 2: as Kate is going to the auction. All of that
Speaker 2: stuff is happening at once, and the Kingpin is rising
Speaker 2: through the ranks. We're unsure at this point, like how
Speaker 2: powerful he actually is. Is he still just like kind
Speaker 2: of the head of the track suits? Is he bigger
Speaker 2: than that? Is he actually the kingpin of crime in
Speaker 2: New York? Now, in the Daredevil series, Kingpin is established,
Speaker 2: He's the guy, He's the dude. So I guess the
Speaker 2: question is, like, where exactly is Matt in his Daredevil
Speaker 2: arc at this time?
Speaker 3: I wonder if I wonder if the easiest way for
Speaker 3: them to do it is Kingpin was in prison like
Speaker 3: he was in Daredevil, and king he is basically reclaiming
Speaker 3: his crown after being in prison, So he's on a
Speaker 3: re rise, but the people.
Speaker 1: Who know him know him, and my guess would.
Speaker 3: Be from Matt just casually being able to just pro
Speaker 3: bono work for May Even though there was obviously some
Speaker 3: chemistry there, we also got some nice May doc Cop chemistry.
Speaker 1: I was loving that ODP from.
Speaker 3: The comics, but like, I kind of imagine that to me,
Speaker 3: Matt thinks Kingpin is gone or is not on the rise,
Speaker 3: and is able to lean a bit more into loyally
Speaker 3: stuff and is kind of in this false safe space
Speaker 3: of like, well, now I can focus on street level
Speaker 3: stuff because Kingpin's not a threat.
Speaker 1: Okay. Surprised that no Miles moraless.
Speaker 3: In this, I was, And I actually I think it's
Speaker 3: one of the few glaring flaws of the movie to
Speaker 3: me is that I understand you made a really good
Speaker 3: point before about them like wrapping. You know, they want
Speaker 3: to wrap stuff up, like they want to wrap up
Speaker 3: these old stories and stuff, which I think is really good.
Speaker 3: But like, I do think people are going to be
Speaker 3: really disappointed. I think it seems obvious.
Speaker 2: There's a little mention Electro, Yeah, it'd be cool if
Speaker 2: there is a black Spider Man.
Speaker 3: He's like, there must be a black Spider Man in
Speaker 3: some universe, and it is a good joke where he
Speaker 3: basically says he thought that the Andrew Garth Spider Man
Speaker 3: was black because like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he helps, he helps people, he's from Queens.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought that was really cool, but I.
Speaker 3: Personally was hoping for a bit more than a joke.
Speaker 3: I felt like maybe the second post credits scene. But
Speaker 3: I also do think we just got the reveal that
Speaker 3: Across the Spider Us is going to be two part
Speaker 3: are The first one was so transgressive and radical and
Speaker 3: really changed things. I mean, without that movie, we probably
Speaker 3: don't get this movie. Agreed that we got no way home,
Speaker 3: so I understand why Sony might not be desperate to
Speaker 3: throw Miles in at this point.
Speaker 1: But I do feel like.
Speaker 3: This movie did set up a New York where Miles
Speaker 3: could exist without Peter Parker. We need a new street
Speaker 3: level hero, but that could also be Kamala Khan, who
Speaker 3: we know is will becoming very soon.
Speaker 1: Okay, final thoughts about this movie.
Speaker 2: Where does it stand in the Spider Man movie pantheon
Speaker 2: and where do you have it in the MCU pantheon?
Speaker 2: I think like clearly, as Phase four stands, this is
Speaker 2: the movie of phase four. This is one of the
Speaker 2: this is I put this in my top level of
Speaker 2: Marvel movies. This was a great one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's really I think it's definitely my
Speaker 3: favorite Spider Man movie for me, Like why not just
Speaker 3: go all out?
Speaker 1: Why not? They?
Speaker 3: They somehow managed to pull this off, And for me,
Speaker 3: it has that balance that we talked about, the emotion,
Speaker 3: the humor, the action, the drama that they almost like
Speaker 3: the sincerity mixed with that occasional campiness of the many.
Speaker 3: And also the other reason that it really feels like
Speaker 3: Spider May movie is because of all the villains. That's
Speaker 3: like a number one Spider Man story. That's why the
Speaker 3: Sinister Six is such a thing, you know. So for me,
Speaker 3: definitely my favorite Spider Man movie of all the movies,
Speaker 3: even though I'm still Spider Man three Stan obviously love.
Speaker 1: That terrible movie. This is Homecoming was my favorite before.
Speaker 3: This is definitely my favorite now and it's yeah, it's
Speaker 3: up there in that top five for me. I mean
Speaker 3: this is like a I remember when thor Ragnarok came
Speaker 3: out right and like just on a quality and tone level,
Speaker 3: I was like whoa, Like this is so different, Like
Speaker 3: this is not obviously a Tiger wy Tt movie or
Speaker 3: a Ryan Coogler movie. It doesn't have the auteur aspect,
Speaker 3: but tonally an impact wise, it feels like that to me,
Speaker 3: like that next level that kind of adds something new
Speaker 3: to the MCU.
Speaker 2: What about you, I completely agree. I would have it
Speaker 2: as my favorite Spider Man movie. I think it's one
Speaker 2: of the best Marvel movies that they've done. I think
Speaker 2: it was the team up movie that Phase four needed.
Speaker 2: And it's just kind of like a magical bit of
Speaker 2: comic book storytelling that, on the one hand, manages to
Speaker 2: capture what people love about Spider Man that kind of
Speaker 2: again that kind of almost hokey, old fashion, completely sincere
Speaker 2: heroism in the most silver age, as you mentioned, sense
Speaker 2: of a superhero who does good and doesn't kill anybody
Speaker 2: and does their best, almost to the point of being
Speaker 2: ridiculously idealistic with it, but in this way that felt
Speaker 2: so earned and true to whom Peter Parker is as
Speaker 2: a person in the things.
Speaker 1: He's been through.
Speaker 2: On top of that is this incredible, action packed, hilarious
Speaker 2: adventure of riches that is just a kind of like
Speaker 2: a feast for action fans, for fans who love excitement,
Speaker 2: but also like is so rewarding as fan service as
Speaker 2: it no matter what your level of fandom is. If
Speaker 2: you're a diehard Spider Man fan, there's Easter eggs in
Speaker 2: here that will reward you. If you just love the
Speaker 2: MCU Spider Man movies, there's Easter eggs in here that
Speaker 2: reward you. If you loved all the Toby Reguire Andrew
Speaker 2: Garfield stuff, there's Easter eggs that reward you. There's just
Speaker 2: wonderful references all throughout, like even going so far inst
Speaker 2: having William Devoue say with the exact look on his face,
Speaker 2: I'm something of a scientist myself. Like, there's all these
Speaker 2: things in there that just reward you for paying attention.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've got and there's everything from you get the
Speaker 3: Easter eggs stuff, you know, on the bridge, the MIT admissions,
Speaker 3: Lady Haka has ASM three, which is a big you know,
Speaker 3: it's a big Dot coc issue, and then you get
Speaker 3: dot cock on the bridge.
Speaker 1: So you got the little notes like that, but you also.
Speaker 3: Get these really satisfying, juicy, emotional narrative endings for these characters.
Speaker 3: Something that I really loved about this movie is like
Speaker 3: Andrew Garfield Spider Man. There's a whole generation where that's
Speaker 3: their spider Man, that's their first spider Man, and they
Speaker 3: didn't get to see what happened to him after this
Speaker 3: really you know, harsh moment. They got a sinister six nod,
Speaker 3: but they never got it. And I love everything about
Speaker 3: this movie, but I really love the idea that that
Speaker 3: Andrew Garfield stands are gonna like finally get their moment
Speaker 3: and get their ending.
Speaker 2: It is so satisfying. Absolutely loved it. I mean it
Speaker 2: just they crushed it. If I hope that everyone here
Speaker 2: got to see it in a good theater, as Rosie said,
Speaker 2: if you didn't see it in a theater where people
Speaker 2: were going crazy, go see it again with that theater.
Speaker 2: Because we were lucky enough, even in a press screening,
Speaker 2: to have a theater that was like ready to go
Speaker 2: and just really really fun experience. They nailed it. Great job,
Speaker 2: Kevin Feige and the whole team. Up next, nerd Out.
Speaker 1: Welcome to nerd Out.
Speaker 2: In our first listeners submitted nerd Out audience member Megan
Speaker 2: Wright gives us her pitch for nineteen eighty seven's fantasy
Speaker 2: called Classic Sword's Point by Ellen Kushner, which full disclosure,
Speaker 2: I have listened to this nerd Out already and I
Speaker 2: bought the book.
Speaker 4: Hey Jason and the x Ray Vision Team.
Speaker 1: My name is Megan.
Speaker 4: I live in Brooklyn, huge fan of the show and
Speaker 4: my very niche likely not usable pitch for nerd Out
Speaker 4: is Ellen Kushner's nineteen eighty seven books swords Point. It's
Speaker 4: one of those books I can't believe everybody hasn't read like.
Speaker 4: I can't believe it's not canonical. It's about a swordsman
Speaker 4: named Richard living in a city that doesn't have a name,
Speaker 4: mostly in this skid rowne called Riverside, his quote unquote
Speaker 4: friend Alec, this degenerate university drop out with pretty dangerous
Speaker 4: tastes and a mysterious backstory and a highly intricate political
Speaker 4: plot that these two men get caught up in and
Speaker 4: then shape to their own ends. And it would be
Speaker 4: super campy except that it's really really concise. The whole
Speaker 4: plot takes place in this one city over the course
Speaker 4: of maybe a few months. The characters are just sumptuous.
Speaker 4: There's this incredible duchess, and everyone is queer. Everyone in
Speaker 4: this book that came out in nineteen eighty seven is
Speaker 4: like super Hella, out of control gay and this was
Speaker 4: and is very important to me. I found this book
Speaker 4: at my public library because I was in middle school
Speaker 4: and I was very into the girls with Swords genre,
Speaker 4: most defined for me by Tamara Peers, and Sword's Point
Speaker 4: has a sequel called The Privilege of the Sword, which
Speaker 4: has young woman as its narrator. And I went to
Speaker 4: the library to find that book at the recommendation of
Speaker 4: someone on an internet forum. It's called Shiroscentral dot com.
Speaker 4: The library didn't have the Privilege of the Sword, but
Speaker 4: it was in those days where like if the library
Speaker 4: didn't have what you were looking for, you just took
Speaker 4: home whatever was next to it on the shelf.
Speaker 1: And so I took Swords went home.
Speaker 4: And I was not like super clearly aware of my
Speaker 4: own queerness at this point.
Speaker 1: I was maybe like eleven or twelve.
Speaker 4: But when I realized that these two main characters, these
Speaker 4: two men, were in love with each other, I put
Speaker 4: down the book and I ran into the living room
Speaker 4: and told my parents. I was so excited. It meant
Speaker 4: so much to me, and it still means a lot
Speaker 4: to me. That book just yeah, I reread it I
Speaker 4: reread Sword's Point once every four years or so. I
Speaker 4: wait until I've forgotten the plot because the twists are
Speaker 4: really good, and so that I can be surprised by
Speaker 4: it again, and then I make everybody else read it too.
Speaker 4: I know I'm going really long on this pitch, and
Speaker 4: I know the last quest I'm supposed to answer is
Speaker 4: what's coming soon in this world that we can look
Speaker 4: forward to? The answer is nothing.
Speaker 1: There's nothing coming.
Speaker 4: There's just this singular, perfect, decades old diamond of a
Speaker 4: book that you can read in a weekend and that
Speaker 4: will sustain you forever.
Speaker 1: That's my pitch.
Speaker 4: Read Sorts Point by Ellen Kushner. You guys are great,
Speaker 4: Thanks so.
Speaker 1: Much, Thanks Megan.
Speaker 2: If you want to be featured, send your nerd out
Speaker 2: pitch to x Ray at Crooked dot com. Instructions in
Speaker 2: the show notes up next to the Endgame.
Speaker 1: Hello Peter, We're.
Speaker 2: In the Endgame now, and today we're playing another round
Speaker 2: of Assembly Required, in which Rosie and I will pick
Speaker 2: our character or item from Spider and No Way Home
Speaker 2: to successfully fulfill a randomly assigned mission.
Speaker 1: Chris, what is our mission for today?
Speaker 3: All?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: So the mission this week? Given that a few of
Speaker 5: the characters in No Way Home. Jamie fox in particular,
Speaker 5: got a lovely makeover, looking much better than the last
Speaker 5: time we saw him.
Speaker 1: I mean we talk about we didn't even talk about.
Speaker 2: The incredible retcon of Jamie Foxx's character from a sexy
Speaker 2: muscle elector amazing spider man to to to No Way Home,
Speaker 2: but con.
Speaker 5: Dig you so in honor of that, the challenge this
Speaker 5: week is pick a character for the movie each of you,
Speaker 5: and that character is going to take you to the
Speaker 5: mall for a pretty woman's style shopping spree. The caveat
Speaker 5: here is that the budget is as much the person
Speaker 5: can afford, and they pick your clothes based on their style.
Speaker 2: Wow, you went first last time, so I will go
Speaker 2: first this time. As much as they can afford. Okay,
Speaker 2: well wow, well listen, if you want to go big,
Speaker 2: that means it's got to be either Norman or Happy
Speaker 2: because they're the only ones with a check book. I
Speaker 2: just wouldn't feel right having May take me on shopping
Speaker 2: spree when her literal job is like community service and
Speaker 2: running a food bank.
Speaker 1: These are like money.
Speaker 2: I don't feel right using money for donations to just
Speaker 2: be like let's shop, So of those. Happy is too
Speaker 2: much of a sad bitch because of his breakup with May,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to hear about it. I just
Speaker 2: don't want to hear him going on and on and
Speaker 2: on about May. So you know what, he's messy. But
Speaker 2: Norman Osborne like, let's do it. I think it would
Speaker 2: be fun. I don't know what I'll end up looking like.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're gonna kill.
Speaker 1: Me in the middle of this.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're gonna launch a terrorist attack
Speaker 2: on the mall and start throwing pumpkin bombs around. I
Speaker 2: just know that it's gonna be an adventure even talking
Speaker 2: to you, So it's gonna be I'm gonna say, Norman Osborne,
Speaker 2: let's go take me to the salon and let's get
Speaker 2: those weird waves put in like comics.
Speaker 1: Let's go Rosie. I absolutely love that.
Speaker 3: I think you undred percent when for the right person
Speaker 3: when it comes to financial backing.
Speaker 1: And he had some nice looks in this movie, the
Speaker 1: purple jacket with the green hoodie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I just need to say, Actually, I didn't
Speaker 3: get to talk about this, but I'm so happy that
Speaker 3: May broke up with Happy.
Speaker 1: That was like my.
Speaker 3: Absolute worst cursed pairing, and I hated it. So the
Speaker 3: movie beginning with her breaking up with him and being
Speaker 3: like it was just a fling, that gave me a
Speaker 3: lot of joy in my soul. I am going to
Speaker 3: go the opposite route where I'm going to go for
Speaker 3: esthetic over cost, because you went for Norman, who's definitely
Speaker 3: the best choice. I would never choose to hang out
Speaker 3: with Happy. I don't like him. I'm going to go
Speaker 3: for MJ because I am a teenage more goth at heart.
Speaker 3: So even if there's only like ten dollars, I know
Speaker 3: she's gonna take me to hot topic or a thrift store.
Speaker 3: I'll be wearing a black hoodie. I'll just look like
Speaker 3: my normal clothes, but I'll get to hang out with her.
Speaker 3: I think she's pretty cool and that would really definitely
Speaker 3: represent my style. I wouldn't have to worry too much
Speaker 3: about changing a style even if it is a budget
Speaker 3: shopping spree.
Speaker 1: That's it for the endgame.
Speaker 2: Let us know who you think one and use hashtag
Speaker 2: XRV endgame to give us your pick.
Speaker 1: Well, folks, this was a super fun episode.
Speaker 2: Big thank you to the great Rosie Night for joining
Speaker 2: us on x Ray, Rosie where can people find you?
Speaker 1: Hello me on social media?
Speaker 3: Rosie Marx is my Instagram And if you liked any
Speaker 3: of the stuff we were talking about here, you can
Speaker 3: go to Notice where there is a ton of big
Speaker 3: explainers of all this kind of stuff, different theories, digging
Speaker 3: into what the movie means. So yeah, if you want
Speaker 3: to do some reading, that is there for you, as
Speaker 3: well as weekly Hawkeye Easter eggs, which I spent many
Speaker 3: nights finding those eggs for you guys.
Speaker 1: Folks.
Speaker 2: If you want to learn more about what we explore
Speaker 2: in each episode, check out our listener guide to all
Speaker 2: things Extra Revision in the show notes or on the
Speaker 2: Crooked dot com website. Catch the next episode on Friday,
Speaker 2: December twenty fourth for holiday mail bag for y'all, x
Speaker 2: Ray's got mail. That's right, as we said earlier, our
Speaker 2: new email address is x ray at cricket dot com.
Speaker 2: If you enjoy it today's nerd Out segment by Megan
Speaker 2: and want to share your own thing that you want
Speaker 2: to promote that you want to say, Hey people, go
Speaker 2: read this, go watch.
Speaker 1: This, go pick this up.
Speaker 2: Drop us an email with a short pitch about what
Speaker 2: you'd like to pitch on nerd out and we'll get
Speaker 2: back to you again. The email is x Ray at
Speaker 2: cricket dot com. That's x Ray at crooked dot com.
Speaker 2: Don't forget five star ratings only, or we will banish
Speaker 2: you to the dimension from which you came. X ray
Speaker 2: Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show is produced
Speaker 2: by Chris Lord and Salt Rubin. The show is executive
Speaker 2: produced by myself and Sandy Girard. Caroline Reslin and Carlton
Speaker 2: Gillespie are consulting producers, and our editing and sound design
Speaker 2: is by Sarah Gibblaska and the folks at Chapter four.
Speaker 2: Big thanks to Brian Basquez for our theme music. See
Speaker 2: you next time,