Speaker 1: What's that at my bed?
Speaker 2: It's spooky and jooky. I'm pretty sure it's dead kid's coming.
Speaker 1: It's way Wait a minute, Hey, I go hi ros dressed.
Speaker 3: Hey boo, it's me Roz. Welcome to part two of
Speaker 3: my conversation with Greg and Dana Newkirk. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: people went wild for this episode last week. I heard
Speaker 3: from so many people that just loved a great feedback
Speaker 3: and and it was worth the wait. I mean, I
Speaker 3: love them. I love them so much. They are so cool,
Speaker 3: they're funny, and they know their stuff. And so today
Speaker 3: we have a little bit more of the conversation. We're
Speaker 3: gonna be talking about eBay dolls, one of my favorite topics,
Speaker 3: and Hellier and also Phenomena Con which is their online
Speaker 3: paranormal conference, which is happening this weekend.
Speaker 1: So please be there.
Speaker 3: We'll talk more about it later on in the episode.
Speaker 1: I'll be there. Okay.
Speaker 3: Let me give you a little bit of an intro here.
Speaker 3: I was looking through paranormal news and guess what, Courtney
Speaker 3: Cox has a ghost story. In celebrity paranormal News, Courtney
Speaker 3: Cox recently said an interview that she has a ghost story.
Speaker 3: She has a new TV show coming out called Shining Veil,
Speaker 3: and it sounds like a great idea. So the show
Speaker 3: Shining Veil is about this family. She's the wife, the mother,
Speaker 3: I believe, and bad things are happening and she can't
Speaker 3: tell if she's either depressed or possessed.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I found it interesting anyway.
Speaker 3: So she was recently promoting the TV show and she
Speaker 3: was asked by a reporter from Entertainment Tonight, have you
Speaker 3: ever had an experience? She said that she lived in
Speaker 3: a house where a EPs delivery person brought her something
Speaker 3: and was like, Oh, who's that behind you? And she
Speaker 3: was like, well, there's no one behind me. And that
Speaker 3: was one of her ghost stories that happened, but she
Speaker 3: said she doesn't want to talk about it because she's
Speaker 3: afraid that the ghost will hear her. And also and
Speaker 3: then she also reveals in the interview, Oh, I'm in
Speaker 3: England right now and I just had a paranormal experience
Speaker 3: the other night. So the ghost lover. I love Courtney Cox.
Speaker 3: I actually just watched Scream a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 3: and I loved it so much. God, I thought it
Speaker 3: was it was everything I wanted from a Scream movie.
Speaker 3: But Anyway, I just thought it was interesting and I'm
Speaker 3: adding her to my list of future dream guests. Courtney Cox.
Speaker 3: She's got the stories we now know it.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: I also found this article that is saying that there's
Speaker 3: a new study about people that believe in the paranormal,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, are they coming for us? It sounds
Speaker 3: like we have some haters here in our mists.
Speaker 1: Okay. This one.
Speaker 3: This article's from Psychology Today. It says our paranormal believes
Speaker 3: a result of lazy thinking.
Speaker 1: keV said this before.
Speaker 3: I have always before all the other things I identify as,
Speaker 3: I've always identified first and foremost as lazy. So you
Speaker 3: might have You might be onto something here. Basically, what
Speaker 3: it's saying is that.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: So in twenty twenty one, or is the New York
Speaker 3: Time Times bestseller called Noise colon a flaw in human judgment,
Speaker 3: And in this book, it says belief in ghost astrology
Speaker 3: and extrasensory perception ESP is associated with lower cognitive reflection
Speaker 3: test scores, implying that belief in paranormal phenomena may result
Speaker 3: from failure to engage in an adequate level of analytic thinking. However,
Speaker 3: a new Cross cultural study published last week in Frontiers
Speaker 3: in Psychology, which I guess is some kind of publication,
Speaker 3: suggests that this is a case of correlation without causation,
Speaker 3: and that it may be culturally mediated. So cognitive reflection tests,
Speaker 3: also known as CRT, so that measures a person's ability
Speaker 3: to respond to a problem by rejecting the first incorrect
Speaker 3: answer that springs to their mind and then engaging their
Speaker 3: analyt reasoning skills to find the less obvious but correct solution,
Speaker 3: so it says. In twenty twelve, a study by someone
Speaker 3: named Gordon Pennycook showed an inverse correlation between scores on
Speaker 3: the CRT and belief in paranormal phenomena. So, according to
Speaker 3: his findings, quote, analytic individuals have decreased levels of supernatural
Speaker 3: belief because they are more likely to scrutinize ideas, detect
Speaker 3: such violations, and unbelieve them. However, last week a group
Speaker 3: of researchers published a series of cross cultural studies that
Speaker 3: undertook a similar comparison of cognitive reflection and paranormal belief,
Speaker 3: but produced results that call pennycook at All's explanation into question.
Speaker 3: So they noticed that most studies examining the association between
Speaker 3: cognitive style and and people that believe in the paranormal
Speaker 3: or jump to that have been conducted exclusively with what
Speaker 3: they call weird, which stands for Western educated, industrialized, rich,
Speaker 3: and democratic. Okay, we're going to talk about the word
Speaker 3: weird for a moment later on in this episode, and
Speaker 3: that is not what I'm referring to PS. So they're
Speaker 3: saying only ten percent of the two hundred and eighty
Speaker 3: seven participants in Penny Cook at Owl's study were from
Speaker 3: regions other than North America and Europe, and one hundred
Speaker 3: percent of their study participants gave English as their primary language.
Speaker 3: They also noted that a previous study in which Japanese
Speaker 3: participants who self reported having an analytics thinking style were
Speaker 3: more likely to have paranormal beliefs. So they're using this
Speaker 3: as reasons to explore the relationship between CRT scores and
Speaker 3: paranormal beliefs outside the Western and English speaking worlds. So,
Speaker 3: sticking with the same group that is doing these studies,
Speaker 3: they conducted several studies to measure cognitive reflection and paranormal
Speaker 3: beliefs in both English speaking and Japanese speaking populations. So
Speaker 3: the results for their English speaking subjects were similar to
Speaker 3: the one that Penny Cook did, which is an inverse
Speaker 3: correlation between CRT scores and paranormal belief However, when CRT
Speaker 3: scores and paranormal beliefs among Japanese subjects were compared, there
Speaker 3: was no such correlation found. So it would seem that
Speaker 3: what they found is that paranormal beliefs are not a
Speaker 3: violation of Japanese cultural norms quite as much as they
Speaker 3: are to Western peoples. So yeah, it really seems like
Speaker 3: it has a lot to do with society cultural influences.
Speaker 3: Of course, I'm always talking about religion or upbringing. That
Speaker 3: has a huge part, because those seeds are planted in
Speaker 3: your mind that that stuff could be possible. I think
Speaker 3: also if you're like, you know, if you discover I
Speaker 3: don't know, paranormal podcasts or movies or books or whatever,
Speaker 3: then you then you would have the possibility of that
Speaker 3: stuff out there, and you wouldn't just be like, oh,
Speaker 3: that was just in my head. Anyway, moving on, I
Speaker 3: don't know, I'm always thinking about skeptics. Skeptics in a way,
Speaker 3: I guess the word isn't necessarily skeptic. I think that
Speaker 3: that word gets thrown around a lot. But people that
Speaker 3: strictly reject the idea of the existence of paranormal phenomena,
Speaker 3: I'm always so curious about them, and obviously I talk
Speaker 3: to a lot of them. Sometimes I have them on
Speaker 3: this show a little bit. Actually, I don't think I've
Speaker 3: ever had anyone on this show because I can't interview
Speaker 3: someone that's like, Nope, that's not true, Nope, that's stupid, Nope,
Speaker 3: that's fake. I mean I've tried, and I've had to
Speaker 3: stop and go just so you know, like I believe
Speaker 3: in this the people that listen to the show at
Speaker 3: least have an open mind to hear about it. I
Speaker 3: think a large majority of them do believe in the
Speaker 3: possibility of this stuff. So like, don't insult us and
Speaker 3: to insult our intelligence by telling us that we are
Speaker 3: stupid for thinking that this stuff is possible. Of course,
Speaker 3: it always comes down to it's fun.
Speaker 1: Why not.
Speaker 3: We're not hurting anybody. I mean, it is interesting because
Speaker 3: when I started this podcast, and still to this day,
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about any of this stuff. I
Speaker 3: just like to talk about it and I like to
Speaker 3: learn more and more. But when I especially started doing
Speaker 3: this podcast, I was admittedly the kind of person that
Speaker 3: would think that everything ever was a ghost. And I
Speaker 3: have in some ways retroactively debunked certain things that I
Speaker 3: thought were paranormal in my life. Nothing too major, just
Speaker 3: little things where I'm like, oh, maybe that was that
Speaker 3: and not a ghost. But I think that from having
Speaker 3: all of these conversations and going out and experiencing looking
Speaker 3: for a ghosts and talking to professionals in this field,
Speaker 3: it has certainly given me a more analytic mind set
Speaker 3: when it comes to the paranormal, and it has given
Speaker 3: me options of rather than jumping to conclusions right away.
Speaker 3: I think that is true, and I don't know, maybe
Speaker 3: you found that too from listening to people's stories and experiences.
Speaker 3: I think it's a good thing. Of course, we've talked before.
Speaker 3: It's healthy to be skeptical, even you know you can
Speaker 3: believe in this stuff and be skeptical. I think that's smart. No,
Speaker 3: we want, we want to note for damn sure that
Speaker 3: what we're talking about is a ghost as much as
Speaker 3: we can.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just thought it was interesting to read that in
Speaker 3: a psychology a publication that was psychology Today. It's interesting
Speaker 3: to me that people look into this stuff and it
Speaker 3: says that you know, they they throw astrology in there.
Speaker 3: I like the idea of looking into people's analysis of
Speaker 3: things being paranormal or not. I'm not I'm never interested
Speaker 3: in like, well, if you believe in ghosts, then you're stupid,
Speaker 3: or like whatever like that is that does nothing for me.
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like, unintentionally I am doing an
Speaker 3: informal research study with this podcast, because you might notice
Speaker 3: I often do ask people what did their family teach
Speaker 3: them about this stuff? Religion, cultural beliefs on this stuff,
Speaker 3: and also, okay, so what did you think when you
Speaker 3: first saw that ghost in your at the foot of
Speaker 3: your bed? Did you think it was a human? Did
Speaker 3: you think like I'm always trying to to almost survey
Speaker 3: what different people think when they're in these situations based
Speaker 3: on a lot of this stuff that is being studied. Anyway,
Speaker 3: I'm rambling. I thought it was interesting. Okay, so let's
Speaker 3: get into part two of this conversation.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: I will say it's very rare, but this week on Patreon,
Speaker 3: I do not have a bonus clip from my conversation
Speaker 3: with Greg and Dana, but I decided to record essentially
Speaker 3: an ad free podcast of me talking and learning about
Speaker 3: paranormal stuff. And I put that on my Patreon second
Speaker 3: tier this week, and I had so much fun doing it,
Speaker 3: and I think I might just like do it more.
Speaker 3: I loved it because I want to learn things and
Speaker 3: it's fun to find the humor in it. And so
Speaker 3: I wanted to look up things religious quote unquote miracles,
Speaker 3: unexplainable things that people have credited toward, particularly Catholic miracles,
Speaker 3: and unexplained phenomenal like stigmata and the mysterious side of
Speaker 3: supernaturally Catholic beliefs. So I looked up a lot of
Speaker 3: that stuff when I read about it, and I thought
Speaker 3: I was making myself laugh. I had a fun time
Speaker 3: doing it, and I hope you would enjoy it. So
Speaker 3: it's about over forty minutes ad free, just me talking
Speaker 3: about that. Who knows, maybe I'll do it every single
Speaker 3: week from now on. I'm not sure we'll see. But
Speaker 3: let's get into the rest of my conversation with Greg
Speaker 3: and Dana Newkirk. So the last time we talked to them,
Speaker 3: just to recap. Of course, if you haven't heard part one,
Speaker 3: go back and listen to part one. But they were
Speaker 3: telling us the incredible story about the catskills Crone, the
Speaker 3: Haunted Object, and it leads us into this part of
Speaker 3: the conversation.
Speaker 1: So I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 3: Here is me talking to Greg and Dana Newkirk, Part
Speaker 3: two on with the show. Okay, but all that being said,
Speaker 3: what about eBay dolls and haunted.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, don't get me started.
Speaker 3: You know, I have this thing where I'm obsessed with
Speaker 3: eBay dolls, and on my Patreon I do a thing
Speaker 3: where I critique their outfits and.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: I have an obsession with eBay Haunted Doll world, and
Speaker 3: I personally feel very comfortable, confident, and free to kind
Speaker 3: of make fun of the dolls because I don't think
Speaker 3: that most of them are legit at all.
Speaker 1: But I mean, what do you guys think.
Speaker 2: I'll put it this way. Every time we've delt with
Speaker 2: a case where there are people who claim to have
Speaker 2: a haunted object, they only ever respond one of two ways. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's only two ways they respond. I've never seen anything
Speaker 2: else in a case that I believed they either will
Speaker 2: never part with it. They have like a bizarre connection
Speaker 2: to it, and they would never part with it for
Speaker 2: any lot of money.
Speaker 4: There's like a hyper fixation on it that borders on
Speaker 4: like on health red plash.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or they want you to take it, they will
Speaker 2: pay you to take it, or they don't want anything
Speaker 2: to do with it. They're so scared they want to
Speaker 2: throw it. And I've opt people from throwing it and
Speaker 2: throwing things in fires, from throwing things la favor. They
Speaker 2: want nothing to do with it. So when I see
Speaker 2: someone who goes, I have this incredibly haunted artifact and
Speaker 2: you can own this for five hundred dollars, I'm like, Oh, you're.
Speaker 1: A scam art Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sure, it's complete horseshit. There's no way, and there's a
Speaker 2: It's funny because there's there's this fun, super fun scam
Speaker 2: that I see some paranormal museums do sometime is they
Speaker 2: have their psychics quote unquote go to thrift stores and
Speaker 2: put their arms out over the dolls and then they
Speaker 2: will feel the energy and they'll find a haunted doll.
Speaker 2: And then because the psychic finds the haunted doll, now
Speaker 2: they have a new haunted doll and they've just got
Speaker 2: they just make up this whole backstory and everything for it.
Speaker 3: Oh, the backstories are the best part they're always so
Speaker 3: specific these yes, yes.
Speaker 4: They are, especially the eBay ones.
Speaker 5: They're like so like, you have this incredible detail about this.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is the this is Amy and she's gluten
Speaker 2: free and that much.
Speaker 3: To watch Judge Judy yes day, it's like, or do
Speaker 3: you like to watch Judge Judy as the dolls sits
Speaker 3: next to you?
Speaker 2: Exactly? One of our favorite, one of my favorite favorite.
Speaker 5: Exactly what you're gonna say, it's the greatest story ever
Speaker 5: we give.
Speaker 2: So we go. We'll give lectures on the idea of
Speaker 2: hauntings and haunted objects and things like that. And one
Speaker 2: of the things that we'll do is we'll go through
Speaker 2: some of our favorite finds on eBay, because we always
Speaker 2: have like a thing where it's like, don't buy haunted
Speaker 2: dolls on eBay unless you hate money. They're just throwing
Speaker 2: it away. So there's there's haunted dolls, there's all kinds
Speaker 2: of stuff di big boxes. Don't get me started on those.
Speaker 2: But one of my favorite ones was a haunted ring
Speaker 2: and this ring. If you bought this ring and you
Speaker 2: wore this ring, it would summon the spirit of Craig
Speaker 2: the bisexual werewolf lover. And there's a picture of Craig
Speaker 2: that's on this eBay account. And the funniest thing about
Speaker 2: it is we gave that. We've been giving that lecture
Speaker 2: for a while and people always laugh because it's just
Speaker 2: it's just absurd the level of detail or to even
Speaker 2: think that wearing this ring would summon uh, you know,
Speaker 2: the the werewolf Sucubis. Craig turns out. Our friend Connor
Speaker 2: Habib goes, oh, He's like, I you know, I worked,
Speaker 2: I worked in the adult entertainment industry. I know, Craig.
Speaker 2: We could actually set you up by that ring, and
Speaker 2: then we'll make a little video where you put the
Speaker 2: ring on, Craig appears, and then we'll just have a
Speaker 2: jump cut to Craig appearing in the scene. So I
Speaker 2: would love to at some point, but I unfortunately have
Speaker 2: not met Craig.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need an intro to Craig. We gotta make
Speaker 5: this happen.
Speaker 3: Well, I do live versions of this podcast in person
Speaker 3: here in LA and.
Speaker 2: Let's get Craig.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, usually what I do is, I, oh God, I
Speaker 3: hate to admit that this is fake, because I think
Speaker 3: people really know that it's they believe in it. But
Speaker 3: I make a fake eBay ad of a doll for sale,
Speaker 3: which is really just a doll I buy at a
Speaker 3: thrift store, and then I bring I act like I
Speaker 3: bought the doll, and then I bring the doll, and
Speaker 3: then I have a local improv actor of some sort
Speaker 3: behind with a microphone behind the stage all the doll, and.
Speaker 1: Then I interviewed about their stories.
Speaker 4: That is incredible.
Speaker 5: I love I love the detail backstory Haunted Doll ex
Speaker 5: or e Day.
Speaker 2: They're so good, the absurd amount of detail, because all
Speaker 2: I want to know is, like, where's the recordings of
Speaker 2: her telling you this?
Speaker 4: Please?
Speaker 2: We could change history.
Speaker 3: But the crazy thing is that it's like then you
Speaker 3: click on the seller and they have like fifty of
Speaker 3: these dolls. Yes, and it's like similar stories kind of.
Speaker 3: I mean, I have a lot of respect for the
Speaker 3: fact that they take all this time to like really
Speaker 3: write these stories. And sometimes the stories are like long
Speaker 3: likes and paragraphs.
Speaker 2: They're always from like an old I was cleaning out
Speaker 2: an old witch is a state that's in so many
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 5: My favorite, also a kind of like similar thing is
Speaker 5: of the Haunted Doll world on TikTok is an incredible
Speaker 5: thing because it's just people interviewing their haunted dolls, like
Speaker 5: doing like EVP sessions, so like electronic voice. When I'm
Speaker 5: like ghost hunting with their haunted dolls to ask them
Speaker 5: like who killed Marilyn or Marilyn Monroe like.
Speaker 4: That, You're just, oh my god, it's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe the doll will know, like, well.
Speaker 2: They'll know, oh yeah, that's a dull.
Speaker 3: So when you guys have like a bunch of haunted
Speaker 3: objects in a room, how do you know what activity
Speaker 3: is coming from which one?
Speaker 2: You know? I don't think you really have to look
Speaker 2: very hard. I mean, I think, you know, my my
Speaker 2: personal view on ghosts. People are always saying, you know,
Speaker 2: ghosts are here because they have they have unfinished business.
Speaker 2: I I think that they natural. If there's something that
Speaker 2: has some something to say, they'll find a way to
Speaker 2: say it. They'll find a way to let you know.
Speaker 5: And I think also like when it comes to the objects,
Speaker 5: some of them there there's like distinct activity, like different
Speaker 5: types of activity that you'll you'll notice sort of with them.
Speaker 2: And then and then and stuff happens when something new
Speaker 2: comes into the environment. So like with the Krone, we
Speaker 2: we knew right away, oh this thing is trying to
Speaker 2: tell us something. So it's not I mean there's it's
Speaker 2: there's not a really clear cut and dry way. It's
Speaker 2: just I feel like if it has a message, it
Speaker 2: lets you know.
Speaker 5: And one of the things that we do also is
Speaker 5: you know, like because it's a majority of the like
Speaker 5: not all of the objects are in the same room.
Speaker 5: Some of them we keep separate, some of them just
Speaker 5: shouldn't be with other objects, or we kind of like
Speaker 5: every object is its own case, so each one gets
Speaker 5: like its own treatment specifically. But one of the things
Speaker 5: that we do is like in the main space where
Speaker 5: we have a majority of the objects, I'll I consider
Speaker 5: it like energetic hygiene, and so I'll come in and
Speaker 5: like clean cleanse the area or or just do something
Speaker 5: to kind of clean the area out a little bit.
Speaker 5: And that's mainly just because the one thing that we
Speaker 5: notice more often than not specifically when you have this
Speaker 5: many weird things in one space is the more the
Speaker 5: it the energy is allowed to kind of root itself
Speaker 5: in the space, the more you get weird things happening.
Speaker 5: So though the longer it's allowed to kind of stagnate
Speaker 5: in the.
Speaker 2: Space, let that seed grow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you sort of just have to come in and
Speaker 5: like cleanse it and kind of create a new kind
Speaker 5: of energetic environment for everything to coexist together in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I could see that. That makes sense.
Speaker 3: You and your roommates, all of your roommates. Well, I'm
Speaker 3: looking at the time, you guys. Okay, I want to
Speaker 3: talk about other things.
Speaker 2: Hellier, Hey, we're here for you. Let's keep going.
Speaker 3: You guys, this is so fun. Okay, hell youre. I
Speaker 3: love it so much. You guys are like, you guys
Speaker 3: are like straight up investigators, like take away the paranormal
Speaker 3: as well, Like you guys are like the first time
Speaker 3: I watch Hellyer, Okay, I'm a big found footage horror fan,
Speaker 3: and every time I watch found footage, I'm always like,
Speaker 3: this is the hardest genre because like, these people would
Speaker 3: have to be such good actors, and like, if I
Speaker 3: didn't know any better, if I was watching hell here,
Speaker 3: I'd be like, who are these actors? This is incredible,
Speaker 3: like just because of the way that the storyline progresses,
Speaker 3: and it like really feels like you're watching a movie,
Speaker 3: but and of course it's not. I mean, it's like
Speaker 3: it's so much there's such a narrative and it's like
Speaker 3: it's not just like a ghost hunting thing or something,
Speaker 3: no offense to any of that. It's it's it's just different.
Speaker 3: It's like a full like storyline. Like I don't know,
Speaker 3: it's it's really incredible. I just I think it's so great.
Speaker 2: I'm always happy to hear that. It's funny because there's
Speaker 2: so many people who do think we're actors. They think
Speaker 2: that Hellire is like a Blair Witch Project type of thing.
Speaker 5: We're the worst actors on the face of the planet.
Speaker 5: Like I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2: Oh, we had to do recreations for the chron and
Speaker 2: we had to reshoot them because we're such terrible actors
Speaker 2: that Karl had to like you had to like shoot
Speaker 2: it sort of fuzzy and out of focus and like
Speaker 2: just on our lower half.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like don't show our faces at all because we
Speaker 5: just like we're we are so bad at it.
Speaker 4: There are there's tons of people who.
Speaker 2: Tons of people, which is like, it's kind of funny
Speaker 2: because I guess, I mean sure, I guess I tried
Speaker 2: to take it as a compliment. But a lot of
Speaker 2: the a lot of the credit there go to Carl
Speaker 2: who's our director of photography and the editor, he's able to.
Speaker 2: He has a really difficult job when it comes to Hellier,
Speaker 2: especially because he's just taking hundreds and hundreds of hours
Speaker 2: of footage from like over seven years and having to
Speaker 2: make them coherent for the viewer, because like, we could
Speaker 2: sit and spend all day, but when you have you know,
Speaker 2: forty five minutes an episode. Yeah, he's just really really
Speaker 2: good at it and has a really great artistic eye.
Speaker 2: And Hellier does this really interesting thing where, you know,
Speaker 2: Carl decided to shoot it as a film, so it
Speaker 2: doesn't look like other paranormal television shows. It's shot with
Speaker 2: like cinema anamorphic lenses. It has a score. We actually
Speaker 2: have someone who scores it.
Speaker 3: It has oh my god, the theme song has been
Speaker 3: in my head for the past few years.
Speaker 2: Right, so great, it's so good, And all of those
Speaker 2: things kind of combined to do something I think is
Speaker 2: very important for people who want to experience the paranormal themselves.
Speaker 2: It brings your mind into this liminal place where you
Speaker 2: know that what you're watching is is real. It's a
Speaker 2: it's a documentary, but it looks and feels and sounds
Speaker 2: like a film, and so your mind goes into that
Speaker 2: liminal spot where anything is possible, and I think it
Speaker 2: really does. You know, there's a lot of subtleties in
Speaker 2: Hellier and a lot of things baked into Hellier. There's
Speaker 2: the idea that we're doing this big ritual and that
Speaker 2: the people who watch it become part of that ritual.
Speaker 2: And the countless people contact us all the time telling them,
Speaker 2: telling us that things are happening in their lives because
Speaker 2: of Hellier, because they've watched Hellier. I can't speak to
Speaker 2: that very much, but I do think that there is
Speaker 2: there's magic in that series and the way that people
Speaker 2: experience it.
Speaker 3: Well, what's the for you know, like, what's the I
Speaker 3: guess elevator pitch or whatever people say, you know, what's
Speaker 3: the what's the TV Guide version of what it is?
Speaker 3: For anyone that has never seen that?
Speaker 2: Holy shit, can you imagine a lot?
Speaker 1: I know, it turns into a whole.
Speaker 2: It's like I always joke that it's a show about goblins.
Speaker 2: That's not about goblins.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It starts off with us investigating one of the strangest
Speaker 2: emails we've ever gotten, this case or this sky and
Speaker 2: in this tiny, old, dying coal town of eastern Kentucky,
Speaker 2: Hellier says that there's these little beings, these little goblins,
Speaker 2: coming out of a mind shaft on the edge of
Speaker 2: his property. They're tapping on his windows at night. They're
Speaker 2: scaring his children, and they stole his dog, and that
Speaker 2: this enigmatic figure by the name of Terry Wrist told
Speaker 2: him to contact me and my childhood ghost hunting team,
Speaker 2: Like the there's no reason to ever contact us because
Speaker 2: we we just look like kids who really like Jackass
Speaker 2: and went ghost hunting with medieval weapons.
Speaker 3: Like it's silly, now, Pa, coming from the drag world,
Speaker 3: hearing any pun name always gets me excited, and Harry Wrist,
Speaker 3: I'm like, that sounds like an incredible drag king.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I love I love it when people email.
Speaker 1: This happens.
Speaker 2: We get these emails once or twice a month where
Speaker 2: somebody will email us and I love this. This is
Speaker 2: great because in a way, hell Here is very much
Speaker 2: like a crowdsourced investigation. But sometimes someone will email us
Speaker 2: and we'll go, oh my god, did you know that
Speaker 2: if you say Terry Wrists really fast, it's terrorist. Yeah, yeah, wow,
Speaker 2: I think you just cracked.
Speaker 3: We got oh I figured it out right away. But
Speaker 3: well then I turned into something else later on. But yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: so sorry.
Speaker 2: Well we as we as we go to explore this case,
Speaker 2: we find this connection to this very strange book that
Speaker 2: was released by ritual magician by the name of Alan Greenfield,
Speaker 2: who was a ufologist who became involved in the the
Speaker 2: ot O and Thelma, which is ritual magic based around
Speaker 2: principles that Alistair Crowley. I'm sorry, Crowley, I get a
Speaker 2: lot of flak for that Alistair crow espoused in things
Speaker 2: like Book of the Law. There's a book called Secret
Speaker 2: Cipher of the Euphonous which is all about using ritual
Speaker 2: magic to investigate, summon, and repel extraterrestrial entities, ultra terrestrials.
Speaker 2: And it involves Injured Cold, it involves the Mothman, it
Speaker 2: involves goblins, all of that stuff, and it was a
Speaker 2: very strange book. And then we start to slowly meet
Speaker 2: characters who are from this book, and every little step
Speaker 2: that we take ends up leading us further and further
Speaker 2: into this really strange place where by the end of
Speaker 2: season two spoiler alert, we've gone from investigating goblins to
Speaker 2: summoning old gods with magic rituals in caves below Kentucky.
Speaker 3: I want to say that at some point in the
Speaker 3: second season, I think.
Speaker 1: You guys cover this for a sec.
Speaker 3: The idea kind of going back to what we were
Speaker 3: talking about with like magic having to do with cryptids
Speaker 3: and that sort of a thing. And I remember when
Speaker 3: I first started learning about Alistair Crowley that that he
Speaker 3: was doing work in Lockness, and then it made me think, like,
Speaker 3: I wonder if that's if that is, you know, a
Speaker 3: manifestation of something, you know, if he created the Lockness
Speaker 3: Monster or whatever, and so I mean, what are your
Speaker 3: thoughts on all that?
Speaker 1: Oh, I know what?
Speaker 4: That he was doing a ritual at the Buluskin House.
Speaker 2: I think it was the Abremlin ritual, which is like
Speaker 2: a really intense, very long ritual that you know, there's
Speaker 2: a fantastic film that is sort of gives you an
Speaker 2: idea of what the Abremlin rituals like. It's called a
Speaker 2: Dark Song, and I highly highly recommend it. It's incredible,
Speaker 2: it's beautiful, it's scary, but it's the best depiction of
Speaker 2: ritual magic in a fictional film that I've ever seen.
Speaker 5: But it was the what he didn't He wasn't able
Speaker 5: to finish the ritual to completion and then shortly thereafter
Speaker 5: the Monster. I am a big believer in the idea
Speaker 5: that often.
Speaker 2: He tore a hole in reality, like that he manifested
Speaker 2: something into existence. I don't know, but it is an
Speaker 2: interesting coincidence.
Speaker 3: So, Hellier, is there a third season where you guys at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there, I mean, I think it's a matter of when,
Speaker 2: not if. The first two seasons came out in the
Speaker 2: same year, which is crazy, uh, And you know, we
Speaker 2: have a lot of ideas about where it's going to go.
Speaker 2: We have ideas about who we still need to talk to,
Speaker 2: things that we still need to do, rituals we need
Speaker 2: to complete, and yeah, I just I I don't think
Speaker 2: Helly is the thing that really stops. You know, we
Speaker 2: can kind of try to unnaturally put a cap on it,
Speaker 2: but we'll definitely continue it as far as it wants
Speaker 2: to take us, because I don't think that it's done yet.
Speaker 2: I think there's still work to do and there's still
Speaker 2: I mean, my own personal opinion on it. And this
Speaker 2: is the fun thing is we all have our own
Speaker 2: ideas about what this means. But I think what you're
Speaker 2: watching and Hellier is you're watching you are watching an
Speaker 2: initiation of people becoming better magicians or becoming magicians at all.
Speaker 2: And at the same time, there are so many viewers
Speaker 2: who are becoming magicians alongside of us. And I don't
Speaker 2: think that journey is done.
Speaker 3: I love it so much. I truly I tell everybody
Speaker 3: about it. I just think it's it's so fun and
Speaker 3: it's it just it covers so much ground paranormally and
Speaker 3: and I do you always appreciate that, like, uh, intersection
Speaker 3: of different ideas of the paranormal. I mean doing things
Speaker 3: like you know, the God Helmet and the Estence method
Speaker 3: and like, you know, stuff that's more traditionally ghost hunty
Speaker 3: as you're in you know, talking about hypnosis and UFOs
Speaker 3: and like it's just it's all of it and in
Speaker 3: such a cool way that makes sense.
Speaker 5: And yeah, that's so it's always really nice to hear that,
Speaker 5: because that tends to be like one one of the
Speaker 5: things that people will like hyper focus on that they
Speaker 5: hate about it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like, I don't want to sound. I don't
Speaker 2: want to sound this is going to come off. I'm
Speaker 2: trying to think of how how the best way to
Speaker 2: stay is out offending somebody hellier requires you to do homework. Sure,
Speaker 2: and not everyone like people who watch like traditional paranormal television.
Speaker 2: I watch traditional paranmal television. We appear on it all
Speaker 2: the time. But they you have your hand held and
Speaker 2: you're told what to think and what to believe. By
Speaker 2: traditional paranormal television, there's always there's a three act narrative
Speaker 2: structure that you know you've got. The first act sets
Speaker 2: up the problem, the second act is the investigation. The
Speaker 2: third act is telling the client how to fix the problem.
Speaker 2: It's solved, it's done. That's not how it works, ever, Yeah,
Speaker 2: in any paranormal case, it doesn't work that way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so Hellier requires you, you know, you get out
Speaker 2: of it what you decide the work, you know, what
Speaker 2: kind of work you decided to put into it.
Speaker 5: It was a big deal, I think for us to
Speaker 5: have it feel really authentic and to have it feel
Speaker 5: like the person the people watching it are another a
Speaker 5: fellow investigator with us, because we wanted everyone to see
Speaker 5: our dead ends. We wanted people to see moments when we,
Speaker 5: you know, were the theory we were running with came
Speaker 5: up against a brick wall and we just had to
Speaker 5: kind of abandon it. At that point, we wanted it.
Speaker 4: To feel really real and and give.
Speaker 5: You know, a paranormal investigat and high strangeness investigation, like
Speaker 5: an authentic chance at, you know, being in front of people,
Speaker 5: because it's so strange and so wild. And I think
Speaker 5: part of what is great about it is when you
Speaker 5: when you show it in its authenticity it I think
Speaker 5: it really resonates with people in a big way.
Speaker 2: And and you know, Hellier, it's a lot of things,
Speaker 2: but it's a show about reading books.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it also.
Speaker 2: And I love that people have stacks of books after
Speaker 2: they watch it, and they can come up with their
Speaker 2: own ideas. And we try really hard not to tell
Speaker 2: anyone what to believe. Like we we just decide for
Speaker 2: yourself how you think this works. We have our own opinions.
Speaker 2: We're never gonna we don't want to hold anyone's hand.
Speaker 2: We don't want to tell someone what to believe. We
Speaker 2: want them to have your own adventures and read the
Speaker 2: books and decide what you think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you certainly recommend a lot of like other
Speaker 3: things to check out and other things to look into.
Speaker 3: And I really appreciate that too, because you guys talk
Speaker 3: about stuff that I'm like, what like this is some
Speaker 3: you guys are weird, like like really getting deep into
Speaker 3: this ship. Like it's not just it's it's like advanced learning,
Speaker 3: Like there's a.
Speaker 1: Lot of but it's like such a good way.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like things that I didn't even know about yet.
Speaker 3: And I feel like I talk so much about all
Speaker 3: this stuff all the time, and I don't know the
Speaker 3: thirty seventh parallel, Like I was like getting like all
Speaker 3: into it.
Speaker 1: It's great.
Speaker 2: Ah man, that's great. That's that's the best. Calling us
Speaker 2: weird is the best compliment you give us.
Speaker 3: I always say it's the opposite of boring. I mean,
Speaker 3: opposite of weird is boring being a good thing to
Speaker 3: be exactly. But wait, I was just gonna ask you, well,
Speaker 3: I was just thinking, like, when you a traditional paranormal show,
Speaker 3: it's and it's understandable when you know about production and stuff,
Speaker 3: but they only have a few days and so you
Speaker 3: can accomplish so much. And that's what's so cool about
Speaker 3: this one is that you guys and years and yeah,
Speaker 3: sometimes that's you know what it takes, and that's how
Speaker 3: it should be.
Speaker 2: I don't want this to sound dismissive of paranormal television,
Speaker 2: but this is our real life. This We don't turn
Speaker 2: this off when the cameras are off, Like this is
Speaker 2: what we do for a living, Like this is this,
Speaker 2: We live this, We experienced this. The amount of a
Speaker 2: psychological pain that Hellier has caused us is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: We are going to.
Speaker 2: Have to go to therapy because of because of it.
Speaker 2: It's a real it's real. This is where this is.
Speaker 2: This is our lives. This is where we live. The
Speaker 2: reason Dana and I even are together is because we
Speaker 2: ran rival ghost hunting teams as kids. We hated each other.
Speaker 2: We've we've been involved in this for forever, so it's
Speaker 2: always you know, I love it. I think that you know,
Speaker 2: can't be Paranormal television is awesome. It's great, but it's
Speaker 2: also kind of frustrating when people believe that, like Mountain
Speaker 2: Monster is legitimately fighting Bigfoot every week, you know, Like
Speaker 2: it's I.
Speaker 4: Think also it's it's like it's just nice to.
Speaker 5: Have an alternative too, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 5: it's nice to sort of like have a kind of
Speaker 5: panormal content or TV for everybody. So if you're you know,
Speaker 5: if you are a fan of like traditional ghosts, hunting shows.
Speaker 5: They exist in they're out there, and now there's, you know,
Speaker 5: an alternative for people who maybe want to dig their
Speaker 5: their you know, heels in a little bit and kind
Speaker 5: of embed themselves with a group of investigators. It's just
Speaker 5: cool to have like that alternative. We could be that alternative.
Speaker 2: I guess. We actually had the first season of Hellier
Speaker 2: in the Can for like a year before we decided
Speaker 2: to throw our hands up and release it ourselves, because
Speaker 2: every time we would take it to a network, they
Speaker 2: would say, well, you have to find goblins, like you're
Speaker 2: going to have to find goblins? Like what if we
Speaker 2: just blue sky in here? What if we went back
Speaker 2: and every episode was you finding a goblin in a
Speaker 2: different cave in a different state. That's not what it's about,
Speaker 2: And how are you going to guarantee it? They're like,
Speaker 2: oh no, don't worry about it. The subtext is there
Speaker 2: for anyone who watches a lot of paranormal television, and
Speaker 2: it just didn't feel right to us. We were We
Speaker 2: just kind of threw our hands up, and I'm glad
Speaker 2: now that we self released it because it's done much
Speaker 2: better and been much more well received than I ever
Speaker 2: would have imagined if I'd listened to network executives about
Speaker 2: what people actually wanted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh that's so cool. What is your inbox?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: I mean, I can only imagine it is colorful. That
Speaker 1: has to be nightmare.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's a lot of like really great, uh
Speaker 6: and wonderful people having had their own incredible experiences, and
Speaker 6: then occasionally it's.
Speaker 4: Like very very scary people.
Speaker 5: Sure, but it's if anything, I think what is fascinating
Speaker 5: about it is how many people feel that it kind
Speaker 5: of that hell You're itself sort of is a great
Speaker 5: example for something that they felt in their own lives
Speaker 5: that they've never really had something to kind of point
Speaker 5: as to a reference for. So I find that like
Speaker 5: more often than not, people are like I, I've experienced
Speaker 5: synchronosity storms like the ones that you guys experience in Hellier,
Speaker 5: and I didn't know how to explain that or I
Speaker 5: didn't know how to properly share that feeling with other people.
Speaker 5: And it kind of it's cool because it is it's
Speaker 5: nice even just for us to know that there are
Speaker 5: other people out there that are kind of that they
Speaker 5: feel as if they're in that current. Because I like
Speaker 5: referring to it as a current and it feels like
Speaker 5: something that you're in. When you're really kind of going
Speaker 5: with the flow of of you know, trying to communicate
Speaker 5: with that phenomenon, there's there's a weirder vibe that you
Speaker 5: sort of feel and it's cool that, you know, there's
Speaker 5: so many people who've said this is what I feel sometimes,
Speaker 5: and it feels important. It feels mystical to me, and
Speaker 5: now I have a point of reference where I can go.
Speaker 5: It's like this, you know, and that's that's a really
Speaker 5: cool thing. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean when you guys get these emails that are like,
Speaker 3: there's goblins in my yard and like, how do you
Speaker 3: you know, how do you what's your credibility checklist or
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure it's case by case, but I
Speaker 3: think I don't know.
Speaker 5: I think that I mean, and Greg probably will have
Speaker 5: a different answer, But for me, I'm really always looking
Speaker 5: because I feel like at this point the you know,
Speaker 5: everyone jokes that like, you know, there's a hell you're
Speaker 5: drinking game and whenever we say synchronicities drink and we're like, you'll.
Speaker 1: Dive out, you will do that.
Speaker 4: But I really feel like.
Speaker 5: For me, the synchronicities are are the guideposts. So they
Speaker 5: when I start seeing that popping up, like let's say
Speaker 5: someone contacts us and they're you know, they're they're having
Speaker 5: a similar experience or they they want us to come
Speaker 5: and investigate. I'm really looking for like synchronicities.
Speaker 2: Around dates, words, sometimes the name of something that we've
Speaker 2: been very invested in and haven't told anyone about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then you're like, Okay, well, there's no way
Speaker 5: that that person would have ever known that. And so
Speaker 5: those for me personally tend to be the things that
Speaker 5: I'm really looking for as far as kind of that
Speaker 5: you know that that idea of the phenomena going with
Speaker 5: look over here, like this is the direction you need
Speaker 5: to go into next. I sort of trust that it
Speaker 5: will put the right the right kind of things in
Speaker 5: front of us that will will recognize them right away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you let the phenomena guide your guide your hand.
Speaker 2: And there's other you know, there's other times when you know,
Speaker 2: you get really good at sniffing out sure you know,
Speaker 2: if someone's trying to pull one over on you, you
Speaker 2: kind of you kind of know, and there's questions you
Speaker 2: can ask that will get to the heart of that
Speaker 2: really quick and people's responses. How they respond is another way.
Speaker 2: And you know, like like I said earlier, our first
Speaker 2: instinct with every single thing is to try and give
Speaker 2: people the tools to solve their own problems. I don't
Speaker 2: need to come in and play the hero and stoke
Speaker 2: my ego and you know, give you an exorcism or
Speaker 2: anything like that. That's not what we're about. We want
Speaker 2: to help you help yourself. And so we can give
Speaker 2: people advice and ideas on how to fix their own problems.
Speaker 2: And if that doesn't work, you know, the next step is, okay,
Speaker 2: well let's you know, maybe there is something we can do.
Speaker 2: We don't like typically doing residential cases because there's you know,
Speaker 2: there's there's psychology issues there, there's I think in a
Speaker 2: lot of those cases they need to talk to a psychiatrist,
Speaker 2: and neither of us are psychiatrists. We don't have training
Speaker 2: in therapy or anything like that. And so I'm very
Speaker 2: aware of making someone's situation worse simply by being there.
Speaker 2: But you know, when it comes to like somebody has
Speaker 2: a haunted object or something and it's causing them distress,
Speaker 2: we're happy to take it off their hands. That's easy
Speaker 2: to do, and most of the time, just getting rid
Speaker 2: of it solve the problem and we just make a
Speaker 2: little more room on our shelves and sometimes we get
Speaker 2: to experience something fascinating and document it. But yeah, it's
Speaker 2: it's always case by case because.
Speaker 3: It's tough, like having an open mind of like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: you know, I like to believe, like sure, why couldn't
Speaker 3: this be possible? But like it gets to like a
Speaker 3: fine line sometimes where somebody comes to me with something
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I don't know if that yeah, that's well,
Speaker 3: it's really out there.
Speaker 2: I think one of the easiest ways is to determine
Speaker 2: whether the person actually wants help, because sometimes someone just
Speaker 2: wants someone to confirm that they have a spooky ghost
Speaker 2: in their house, you know, because everyone wants to be special.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and those situations are the most difficult ones where
Speaker 5: you can you can give every you can give someone
Speaker 5: kind of every explanation as to the weird things that
Speaker 5: are happening maybe in their houses or something like that,
Speaker 5: but the reality to the situation is they just want
Speaker 5: you to kind of validate the experiences that they are having,
Speaker 5: and those are tough because it's sort of like sometimes
Speaker 5: you will find like legitimate mundane answers, and they often
Speaker 5: just kind of refuse them because they want to continue
Speaker 5: believing that, you know, it's not the pipes you know,
Speaker 5: contracting from heat and banging in your basement, that it's
Speaker 5: something else going on.
Speaker 4: So those are tougher kind of situations.
Speaker 2: But especially when it's dealing with like unresolved trauma. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, they want they want the orb in that
Speaker 2: photo to be Grandpa, and you don't want to say, well,
Speaker 2: that's a lens artifact. You know, it's it's it's difficult.
Speaker 2: And even if you tell these people like no, that's
Speaker 2: you know, I can tell you how this happens. You know,
Speaker 2: I can put you in touch with the photographer who
Speaker 2: can explain how this works and how there's water droplets
Speaker 2: in the air and when you use the flash they
Speaker 2: show up on camera. But sometimes it's better to just say,
Speaker 2: if that brings you comfort, why do you need me
Speaker 2: to validate that?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you guys, we should probably wrap it up soon,
Speaker 3: but we have got to talk about phenom when all gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're so excited you're gonna be there.
Speaker 1: I will be there and I can't wait.
Speaker 3: You know, this is my debut speaking at things, Is
Speaker 3: it really yeah? I mean obviously I've like done a
Speaker 3: billion things speaking to audiences and talking about ghosts and
Speaker 3: all that, but I never I feel legitimate.
Speaker 2: You've not done a conference before, never feel We are
Speaker 2: so honored.
Speaker 1: So thank you guys for giving me that.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you for giving us the honor
Speaker 2: of hosting you well, tell us what it is can't
Speaker 2: wait and what people can look forward to and how
Speaker 2: they find it and everything. Phenomena con is born of
Speaker 2: a pandemic a couple of years ago, when you know,
Speaker 2: our livelihood shut down. The livelihood of our friends shut
Speaker 2: down too. You know, part of the way that we
Speaker 2: make money is going around the country and talking to people,
Speaker 2: and we're in a very fortunate position where we don't
Speaker 2: have to do that, but a lot of our friends have.
Speaker 2: They're not you know, they've got books they've got to sell,
Speaker 2: they've got things they've got to promote. And we got
Speaker 2: bored not being able to go anywhere. So I said,
Speaker 2: let's try our best to bring the conference experience online,
Speaker 2: and we planned a three day event with we only
Speaker 2: ever invite people who we genuinely love and genuinely feel
Speaker 2: like they have something fun and interesting and new to
Speaker 2: say to people, and we put together this this amazing
Speaker 2: list and it just went it. It went off like gangbusters.
Speaker 2: Everybody was so psyched on it because, you know, we
Speaker 2: didn't realize they're there's people who've never had the opportunity
Speaker 2: to attend a paranormal conference before. They've got maybe they
Speaker 2: have social anxiety, maybe they just don't have the funds,
Speaker 2: maybe they have to stay home and care for somebody.
Speaker 2: These people finally had the opportunity to attend something like this,
Speaker 2: and it was it was just so much fun. It
Speaker 2: really replicated the conference experience. As far as I know,
Speaker 2: no one's ever done one before, an online paranormal conference,
Speaker 2: and so we kept it going and we're bringing it
Speaker 2: back for round three. It's happening at the end of
Speaker 2: the month, the twenty fifth through the twenty seventh. We
Speaker 2: host the whole thing through our Patreon page. It's free
Speaker 2: for people who are already members of our Patreon and
Speaker 2: if you're not, it's fifteen bucks. You can you can
Speaker 2: join for the weekend, you can leave when you're done
Speaker 2: if you want. But there's tons of fantastic speakers on
Speaker 2: everything from voodoo to ufology to Bigfoot. Dana's going to
Speaker 2: talk about incorporating magic into paranormal investigation. I'm going to
Speaker 2: talk about egg Grigor's for fun and profit. There's all
Speaker 2: kinds of fun stuff and there's movie screenings that have
Speaker 2: to do with the paranormal. Uh. Yeah, it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2: I'm really excited about it. But if people are curious
Speaker 2: about it, they can go to Patreon dot com, slash
Speaker 2: Para Museum, p a r A Museum and all the
Speaker 2: informations there.
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna be giving a speech about like finding
Speaker 3: the fun and the funny and the paranormal and keeping it,
Speaker 3: you know, light, and finding the humor in it, which
Speaker 3: is hell yes, so important, and that was so much
Speaker 3: of like when I started this podcast, it's always been
Speaker 3: kind of the focus for me, is like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 3: there's like moments when when this stuff is so far
Speaker 3: from being funny, it's not even funny, but like, you know,
Speaker 3: so much of it, there's there's so much fun to
Speaker 3: be had and and I've spent so many years watching
Speaker 3: people that I'm like, is this even.
Speaker 1: Fun for you guys?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 3: Sounds that miserable, Like come on, you're talking to dead people,
Speaker 3: you're talking to invisible you know, humans, like it's fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: One of the best pieces of advice I ever got.
Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, I don't remember where I heard this
Speaker 2: or who told this to me, but one of the
Speaker 2: best pieces of advice that I ever got that I
Speaker 2: think is so important for more people in the paranormal
Speaker 2: who have an interest in the paranormal to hear is
Speaker 2: laughter is the best exorcism. M It is the best
Speaker 2: way to clear space. Yeah, and if you can have
Speaker 2: a good sense of humor about things that are scary,
Speaker 2: you can withstand just about any that is.
Speaker 3: Great, because yeah, I mean some moments it's not great
Speaker 3: and then all of a suden everyone starts laughing, and
Speaker 3: it's like that bad energy just out of the data.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you the way that I deal with fear.
Speaker 2: I just start to giggle and laugh.
Speaker 5: Help my initial the most terrifying thing happens, and I'm
Speaker 5: like laughing about it like a completely because it.
Speaker 2: Feels so absurd. There's invisible monsters and they're terrifying. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's very funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is funny to just sort of look at
Speaker 3: like sometimes I just sit here and I'm like, I
Speaker 3: get to talk to people about like it's so weird,
Speaker 3: Like right, it's so cool, though, I don't know, it's
Speaker 3: all fun. Well, guys, you've been so generous with your time.
Speaker 3: Thank you for Oh my god, you so fun. I
Speaker 3: hope we can do this again, absolutely many more times
Speaker 3: in the future. But yeah, tell tell everybody just everything
Speaker 3: that whatever you want them to know, where they can
Speaker 3: find you and all that.
Speaker 2: Well, I think we're both pretty easy to find.
Speaker 4: We're pretty easy to find.
Speaker 2: I do have something I'd love to shout out if
Speaker 2: people are interested in supporting a cosmic horror film. I'm
Speaker 2: doing something that's a little outside of my comfort zone.
Speaker 2: I'm very excited about. I'm executive producing a horror film
Speaker 2: based around the concept of Eedgrigor's, which we've talked a
Speaker 2: little bit about, and the script is so scary. The
Speaker 2: cinematographer is incredible. The director is a had directed a
Speaker 2: really fantastic short about an alien abduction support group. It's
Speaker 2: called Prefigured, and you can find that on YouTube. But
Speaker 2: it's it's I'm very very excited about it because I've
Speaker 2: never seen a horror movie like this before and it's
Speaker 2: kind of about what happens when enough people put enough
Speaker 2: energy to summon something terrible into the world. And it's
Speaker 2: called The build Out and we're fundraising for it right now.
Speaker 2: We're fifty percent. We're fifty percent of the way there
Speaker 2: and we've got about a month ago. And if you
Speaker 2: want to learn more about this movie, and you know,
Speaker 2: have your name attached to something that I truly believe
Speaker 2: is going to change horror horror films had to the
Speaker 2: Buildout movie or the buildoutfilm dot.
Speaker 3: Com amazing, Oh my god, that sounds great. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much to Greg and Dana Newkirk. Oh, we'll see
Speaker 3: you at Phenomena Con this weekend. Patreon dot com slash
Speaker 3: Para Museum to get those tickets and I'll say hi
Speaker 3: to you. Can't wait speaking to Patreon this week. I
Speaker 3: have me talking for about forty five minutes about supernatural
Speaker 3: Catholicism and that's my second tier Patreon dot com slash
Speaker 3: Roz Dresfels. I would love if you would support There's
Speaker 3: a link in the description of this episode. Please subscribe
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Speaker 3: If you have a ghost story, leave it in a
Speaker 3: five star review or put it in our Facebook group
Speaker 3: called Ghosted by Roz dres Feles. You can email me
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Speaker 3: If you want to be on a listener episode, do that.
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Speaker 3: next week. I love you all, both living and dead.
Speaker 1: But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't
Speaker 1: haunt me. Hey back
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