1 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: What's that at my bed? 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: It's spooky and jooky. I'm pretty sure it's dead kid's coming. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: It's way Wait a minute, Hey, I go hi ros dressed. 4 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 3: Hey boo, it's me Roz. Welcome to part two of 5 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 3: my conversation with Greg and Dana Newkirk. Oh my god, 6 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 3: people went wild for this episode last week. I heard 7 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 3: from so many people that just loved a great feedback 8 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 3: and and it was worth the wait. I mean, I 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 3: love them. I love them so much. They are so cool, 10 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 3: they're funny, and they know their stuff. And so today 11 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 3: we have a little bit more of the conversation. We're 12 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 3: gonna be talking about eBay dolls, one of my favorite topics, 13 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 3: and Hellier and also Phenomena Con which is their online 14 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 3: paranormal conference, which is happening this weekend. 15 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: So please be there. 16 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 3: We'll talk more about it later on in the episode. 17 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: I'll be there. Okay. 18 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 3: Let me give you a little bit of an intro here. 19 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 3: I was looking through paranormal news and guess what, Courtney 20 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 3: Cox has a ghost story. In celebrity paranormal News, Courtney 21 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 3: Cox recently said an interview that she has a ghost story. 22 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 3: She has a new TV show coming out called Shining Veil, 23 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: and it sounds like a great idea. So the show 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 3: Shining Veil is about this family. She's the wife, the mother, 25 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 3: I believe, and bad things are happening and she can't 26 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 3: tell if she's either depressed or possessed. 27 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. I found it interesting anyway. 28 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: So she was recently promoting the TV show and she 29 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 3: was asked by a reporter from Entertainment Tonight, have you 30 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 3: ever had an experience? She said that she lived in 31 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: a house where a EPs delivery person brought her something 32 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 3: and was like, Oh, who's that behind you? And she 33 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 3: was like, well, there's no one behind me. And that 34 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 3: was one of her ghost stories that happened, but she 35 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 3: said she doesn't want to talk about it because she's 36 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 3: afraid that the ghost will hear her. And also and 37 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: then she also reveals in the interview, Oh, I'm in 38 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: England right now and I just had a paranormal experience 39 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 3: the other night. So the ghost lover. I love Courtney Cox. 40 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 3: I actually just watched Scream a couple of weeks ago, 41 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: and I loved it so much. God, I thought it 42 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 3: was it was everything I wanted from a Scream movie. 43 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 3: But Anyway, I just thought it was interesting and I'm 44 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 3: adding her to my list of future dream guests. Courtney Cox. 45 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: She's got the stories we now know it. 46 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: Okay. 47 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: I also found this article that is saying that there's 48 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 3: a new study about people that believe in the paranormal, 49 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: and I'm like, are they coming for us? It sounds 50 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 3: like we have some haters here in our mists. 51 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Okay. This one. 52 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 3: This article's from Psychology Today. It says our paranormal believes 53 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 3: a result of lazy thinking. 54 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: keV said this before. 55 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: I have always before all the other things I identify as, 56 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: I've always identified first and foremost as lazy. So you 57 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: might have You might be onto something here. Basically, what 58 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 3: it's saying is that. 59 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: Okay. 60 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: So in twenty twenty one, or is the New York 61 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 3: Time Times bestseller called Noise colon a flaw in human judgment, 62 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 3: And in this book, it says belief in ghost astrology 63 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 3: and extrasensory perception ESP is associated with lower cognitive reflection 64 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 3: test scores, implying that belief in paranormal phenomena may result 65 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 3: from failure to engage in an adequate level of analytic thinking. However, 66 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 3: a new Cross cultural study published last week in Frontiers 67 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 3: in Psychology, which I guess is some kind of publication, 68 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 3: suggests that this is a case of correlation without causation, 69 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 3: and that it may be culturally mediated. So cognitive reflection tests, 70 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 3: also known as CRT, so that measures a person's ability 71 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: to respond to a problem by rejecting the first incorrect 72 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: answer that springs to their mind and then engaging their 73 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: analyt reasoning skills to find the less obvious but correct solution, 74 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 3: so it says. In twenty twelve, a study by someone 75 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: named Gordon Pennycook showed an inverse correlation between scores on 76 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: the CRT and belief in paranormal phenomena. So, according to 77 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 3: his findings, quote, analytic individuals have decreased levels of supernatural 78 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 3: belief because they are more likely to scrutinize ideas, detect 79 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: such violations, and unbelieve them. However, last week a group 80 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: of researchers published a series of cross cultural studies that 81 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: undertook a similar comparison of cognitive reflection and paranormal belief, 82 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 3: but produced results that call pennycook at All's explanation into question. 83 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 3: So they noticed that most studies examining the association between 84 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 3: cognitive style and and people that believe in the paranormal 85 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 3: or jump to that have been conducted exclusively with what 86 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 3: they call weird, which stands for Western educated, industrialized, rich, 87 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 3: and democratic. Okay, we're going to talk about the word 88 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 3: weird for a moment later on in this episode, and 89 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 3: that is not what I'm referring to PS. So they're 90 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 3: saying only ten percent of the two hundred and eighty 91 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 3: seven participants in Penny Cook at Owl's study were from 92 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 3: regions other than North America and Europe, and one hundred 93 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 3: percent of their study participants gave English as their primary language. 94 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: They also noted that a previous study in which Japanese 95 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 3: participants who self reported having an analytics thinking style were 96 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 3: more likely to have paranormal beliefs. So they're using this 97 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 3: as reasons to explore the relationship between CRT scores and 98 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 3: paranormal beliefs outside the Western and English speaking worlds. So, 99 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 3: sticking with the same group that is doing these studies, 100 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 3: they conducted several studies to measure cognitive reflection and paranormal 101 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 3: beliefs in both English speaking and Japanese speaking populations. So 102 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: the results for their English speaking subjects were similar to 103 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: the one that Penny Cook did, which is an inverse 104 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: correlation between CRT scores and paranormal belief However, when CRT 105 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: scores and paranormal beliefs among Japanese subjects were compared, there 106 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: was no such correlation found. So it would seem that 107 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: what they found is that paranormal beliefs are not a 108 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 3: violation of Japanese cultural norms quite as much as they 109 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 3: are to Western peoples. So yeah, it really seems like 110 00:07:54,240 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 3: it has a lot to do with society cultural influences. 111 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 3: Of course, I'm always talking about religion or upbringing. That 112 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 3: has a huge part, because those seeds are planted in 113 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: your mind that that stuff could be possible. I think 114 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: also if you're like, you know, if you discover I 115 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 3: don't know, paranormal podcasts or movies or books or whatever, 116 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 3: then you then you would have the possibility of that 117 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 3: stuff out there, and you wouldn't just be like, oh, 118 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: that was just in my head. Anyway, moving on, I 119 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 3: don't know, I'm always thinking about skeptics. Skeptics in a way, 120 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: I guess the word isn't necessarily skeptic. I think that 121 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 3: that word gets thrown around a lot. But people that 122 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: strictly reject the idea of the existence of paranormal phenomena, 123 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: I'm always so curious about them, and obviously I talk 124 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: to a lot of them. Sometimes I have them on 125 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: this show a little bit. Actually, I don't think I've 126 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 3: ever had anyone on this show because I can't interview 127 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: someone that's like, Nope, that's not true, Nope, that's stupid, Nope, 128 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 3: that's fake. I mean I've tried, and I've had to 129 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: stop and go just so you know, like I believe 130 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: in this the people that listen to the show at 131 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 3: least have an open mind to hear about it. I 132 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 3: think a large majority of them do believe in the 133 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 3: possibility of this stuff. So like, don't insult us and 134 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: to insult our intelligence by telling us that we are 135 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 3: stupid for thinking that this stuff is possible. Of course, 136 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 3: it always comes down to it's fun. 137 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: Why not. 138 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 3: We're not hurting anybody. I mean, it is interesting because 139 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 3: when I started this podcast, and still to this day, 140 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: I don't know anything about any of this stuff. I 141 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 3: just like to talk about it and I like to 142 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 3: learn more and more. But when I especially started doing 143 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 3: this podcast, I was admittedly the kind of person that 144 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: would think that everything ever was a ghost. And I 145 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 3: have in some ways retroactively debunked certain things that I 146 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 3: thought were paranormal in my life. Nothing too major, just 147 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 3: little things where I'm like, oh, maybe that was that 148 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 3: and not a ghost. But I think that from having 149 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: all of these conversations and going out and experiencing looking 150 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 3: for a ghosts and talking to professionals in this field, 151 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 3: it has certainly given me a more analytic mind set 152 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 3: when it comes to the paranormal, and it has given 153 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 3: me options of rather than jumping to conclusions right away. 154 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: I think that is true, and I don't know, maybe 155 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: you found that too from listening to people's stories and experiences. 156 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: I think it's a good thing. Of course, we've talked before. 157 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: It's healthy to be skeptical, even you know you can 158 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 3: believe in this stuff and be skeptical. I think that's smart. No, 159 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 3: we want, we want to note for damn sure that 160 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 3: what we're talking about is a ghost as much as 161 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 3: we can. 162 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. 163 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 3: I just thought it was interesting to read that in 164 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 3: a psychology a publication that was psychology Today. It's interesting 165 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 3: to me that people look into this stuff and it 166 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 3: says that you know, they they throw astrology in there. 167 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 3: I like the idea of looking into people's analysis of 168 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: things being paranormal or not. I'm not I'm never interested 169 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 3: in like, well, if you believe in ghosts, then you're stupid, 170 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 3: or like whatever like that is that does nothing for me. 171 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 3: I kind of feel like, unintentionally I am doing an 172 00:11:54,520 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 3: informal research study with this podcast, because you might notice 173 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 3: I often do ask people what did their family teach 174 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:12,239 Speaker 3: them about this stuff? Religion, cultural beliefs on this stuff, 175 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 3: and also, okay, so what did you think when you 176 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 3: first saw that ghost in your at the foot of 177 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: your bed? Did you think it was a human? Did 178 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 3: you think like I'm always trying to to almost survey 179 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 3: what different people think when they're in these situations based 180 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 3: on a lot of this stuff that is being studied. Anyway, 181 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 3: I'm rambling. I thought it was interesting. Okay, so let's 182 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 3: get into part two of this conversation. 183 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: Now. 184 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 3: I will say it's very rare, but this week on Patreon, 185 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 3: I do not have a bonus clip from my conversation 186 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 3: with Greg and Dana, but I decided to record essentially 187 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 3: an ad free podcast of me talking and learning about 188 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 3: paranormal stuff. And I put that on my Patreon second 189 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 3: tier this week, and I had so much fun doing it, 190 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: and I think I might just like do it more. 191 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 3: I loved it because I want to learn things and 192 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 3: it's fun to find the humor in it. And so 193 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 3: I wanted to look up things religious quote unquote miracles, 194 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 3: unexplainable things that people have credited toward, particularly Catholic miracles, 195 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 3: and unexplained phenomenal like stigmata and the mysterious side of 196 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 3: supernaturally Catholic beliefs. So I looked up a lot of 197 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 3: that stuff when I read about it, and I thought 198 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: I was making myself laugh. I had a fun time 199 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 3: doing it, and I hope you would enjoy it. So 200 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 3: it's about over forty minutes ad free, just me talking 201 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 3: about that. Who knows, maybe I'll do it every single 202 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 3: week from now on. I'm not sure we'll see. But 203 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 3: let's get into the rest of my conversation with Greg 204 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: and Dana Newkirk. So the last time we talked to them, 205 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 3: just to recap. Of course, if you haven't heard part one, 206 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 3: go back and listen to part one. But they were 207 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 3: telling us the incredible story about the catskills Crone, the 208 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 3: Haunted Object, and it leads us into this part of 209 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: the conversation. 210 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: So I hope you enjoy. 211 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 3: Here is me talking to Greg and Dana Newkirk, Part 212 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: two on with the show. Okay, but all that being said, 213 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: what about eBay dolls and haunted. 214 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: Oh my god, don't get me started. 215 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 3: You know, I have this thing where I'm obsessed with 216 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 3: eBay dolls, and on my Patreon I do a thing 217 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: where I critique their outfits and. 218 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: I love it. 219 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 3: I have an obsession with eBay Haunted Doll world, and 220 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 3: I personally feel very comfortable, confident, and free to kind 221 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 3: of make fun of the dolls because I don't think 222 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 3: that most of them are legit at all. 223 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: But I mean, what do you guys think. 224 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: I'll put it this way. Every time we've delt with 225 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 2: a case where there are people who claim to have 226 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: a haunted object, they only ever respond one of two ways. Yeah, 227 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: there's only two ways they respond. I've never seen anything 228 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: else in a case that I believed they either will 229 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 2: never part with it. They have like a bizarre connection 230 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 2: to it, and they would never part with it for 231 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 2: any lot of money. 232 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 4: There's like a hyper fixation on it that borders on 233 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 4: like on health red plash. 234 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, or they want you to take it, they will 235 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 2: pay you to take it, or they don't want anything 236 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: to do with it. They're so scared they want to 237 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: throw it. And I've opt people from throwing it and 238 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: throwing things in fires, from throwing things la favor. They 239 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 2: want nothing to do with it. So when I see 240 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: someone who goes, I have this incredibly haunted artifact and 241 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 2: you can own this for five hundred dollars, I'm like, Oh, you're. 242 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: A scam art Yeah. 243 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 2: Sure, it's complete horseshit. There's no way, and there's a 244 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: It's funny because there's there's this fun, super fun scam 245 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 2: that I see some paranormal museums do sometime is they 246 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: have their psychics quote unquote go to thrift stores and 247 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: put their arms out over the dolls and then they 248 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: will feel the energy and they'll find a haunted doll. 249 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: And then because the psychic finds the haunted doll, now 250 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: they have a new haunted doll and they've just got 251 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 2: they just make up this whole backstory and everything for it. 252 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 3: Oh, the backstories are the best part they're always so 253 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 3: specific these yes, yes. 254 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 4: They are, especially the eBay ones. 255 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 5: They're like so like, you have this incredible detail about this. 256 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: Oh, this is the this is Amy and she's gluten 257 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: free and that much. 258 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: To watch Judge Judy yes day, it's like, or do 259 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 3: you like to watch Judge Judy as the dolls sits 260 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 3: next to you? 261 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 2: Exactly? One of our favorite, one of my favorite favorite. 262 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 5: Exactly what you're gonna say, it's the greatest story ever 263 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 5: we give. 264 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 2: So we go. We'll give lectures on the idea of 265 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 2: hauntings and haunted objects and things like that. And one 266 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: of the things that we'll do is we'll go through 267 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 2: some of our favorite finds on eBay, because we always 268 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: have like a thing where it's like, don't buy haunted 269 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 2: dolls on eBay unless you hate money. They're just throwing 270 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 2: it away. So there's there's haunted dolls, there's all kinds 271 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: of stuff di big boxes. Don't get me started on those. 272 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: But one of my favorite ones was a haunted ring 273 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: and this ring. If you bought this ring and you 274 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 2: wore this ring, it would summon the spirit of Craig 275 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 2: the bisexual werewolf lover. And there's a picture of Craig 276 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 2: that's on this eBay account. And the funniest thing about 277 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 2: it is we gave that. We've been giving that lecture 278 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 2: for a while and people always laugh because it's just 279 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: it's just absurd the level of detail or to even 280 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: think that wearing this ring would summon uh, you know, 281 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 2: the the werewolf Sucubis. Craig turns out. Our friend Connor 282 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 2: Habib goes, oh, He's like, I you know, I worked, 283 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 2: I worked in the adult entertainment industry. I know, Craig. 284 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 2: We could actually set you up by that ring, and 285 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 2: then we'll make a little video where you put the 286 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 2: ring on, Craig appears, and then we'll just have a 287 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: jump cut to Craig appearing in the scene. So I 288 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 2: would love to at some point, but I unfortunately have 289 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 2: not met Craig. 290 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, we need an intro to Craig. We gotta make 291 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 5: this happen. 292 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 3: Well, I do live versions of this podcast in person 293 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: here in LA and. 294 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: Let's get Craig. 295 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. 296 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 3: Well, usually what I do is, I, oh God, I 297 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 3: hate to admit that this is fake, because I think 298 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: people really know that it's they believe in it. But 299 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 3: I make a fake eBay ad of a doll for sale, 300 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 3: which is really just a doll I buy at a 301 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 3: thrift store, and then I bring I act like I 302 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 3: bought the doll, and then I bring the doll, and 303 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 3: then I have a local improv actor of some sort 304 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 3: behind with a microphone behind the stage all the doll, and. 305 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: Then I interviewed about their stories. 306 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 4: That is incredible. 307 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 5: I love I love the detail backstory Haunted Doll ex 308 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 5: or e Day. 309 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 2: They're so good, the absurd amount of detail, because all 310 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: I want to know is, like, where's the recordings of 311 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: her telling you this? 312 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 4: Please? 313 00:19:58,359 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 2: We could change history. 314 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 3: But the crazy thing is that it's like then you 315 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: click on the seller and they have like fifty of 316 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 3: these dolls. Yes, and it's like similar stories kind of. 317 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 3: I mean, I have a lot of respect for the 318 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 3: fact that they take all this time to like really 319 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 3: write these stories. And sometimes the stories are like long 320 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 3: likes and paragraphs. 321 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: They're always from like an old I was cleaning out 322 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: an old witch is a state that's in so many 323 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 2: of them. 324 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 5: My favorite, also a kind of like similar thing is 325 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 5: of the Haunted Doll world on TikTok is an incredible 326 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 5: thing because it's just people interviewing their haunted dolls, like 327 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 5: doing like EVP sessions, so like electronic voice. When I'm 328 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 5: like ghost hunting with their haunted dolls to ask them 329 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 5: like who killed Marilyn or Marilyn Monroe like. 330 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 4: That, You're just, oh my god, it's incredible. 331 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe the doll will know, like, well. 332 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 2: They'll know, oh yeah, that's a dull. 333 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 3: So when you guys have like a bunch of haunted 334 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 3: objects in a room, how do you know what activity 335 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: is coming from which one? 336 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: You know? I don't think you really have to look 337 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 2: very hard. I mean, I think, you know, my my 338 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: personal view on ghosts. People are always saying, you know, 339 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 2: ghosts are here because they have they have unfinished business. 340 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 2: I I think that they natural. If there's something that 341 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: has some something to say, they'll find a way to 342 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 2: say it. They'll find a way to let you know. 343 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 5: And I think also like when it comes to the objects, 344 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 5: some of them there there's like distinct activity, like different 345 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 5: types of activity that you'll you'll notice sort of with them. 346 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: And then and then and stuff happens when something new 347 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 2: comes into the environment. So like with the Krone, we 348 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 2: we knew right away, oh this thing is trying to 349 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 2: tell us something. So it's not I mean there's it's 350 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 2: there's not a really clear cut and dry way. It's 351 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: just I feel like if it has a message, it 352 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: lets you know. 353 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 5: And one of the things that we do also is 354 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 5: you know, like because it's a majority of the like 355 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 5: not all of the objects are in the same room. 356 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 5: Some of them we keep separate, some of them just 357 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 5: shouldn't be with other objects, or we kind of like 358 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 5: every object is its own case, so each one gets 359 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 5: like its own treatment specifically. But one of the things 360 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 5: that we do is like in the main space where 361 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 5: we have a majority of the objects, I'll I consider 362 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 5: it like energetic hygiene, and so I'll come in and 363 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 5: like clean cleanse the area or or just do something 364 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 5: to kind of clean the area out a little bit. 365 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 5: And that's mainly just because the one thing that we 366 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 5: notice more often than not specifically when you have this 367 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 5: many weird things in one space is the more the 368 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 5: it the energy is allowed to kind of root itself 369 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 5: in the space, the more you get weird things happening. 370 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 5: So though the longer it's allowed to kind of stagnate 371 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 5: in the. 372 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: Space, let that seed grow. 373 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 5: Yeah, you sort of just have to come in and 374 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 5: like cleanse it and kind of create a new kind 375 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 5: of energetic environment for everything to coexist together in. 376 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I could see that. That makes sense. 377 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 3: You and your roommates, all of your roommates. Well, I'm 378 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 3: looking at the time, you guys. Okay, I want to 379 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 3: talk about other things. 380 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 2: Hellier, Hey, we're here for you. Let's keep going. 381 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 3: You guys, this is so fun. Okay, hell youre. I 382 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 3: love it so much. You guys are like, you guys 383 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 3: are like straight up investigators, like take away the paranormal 384 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: as well, Like you guys are like the first time 385 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 3: I watch Hellyer, Okay, I'm a big found footage horror fan, 386 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 3: and every time I watch found footage, I'm always like, 387 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 3: this is the hardest genre because like, these people would 388 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 3: have to be such good actors, and like, if I 389 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 3: didn't know any better, if I was watching hell here, 390 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 3: I'd be like, who are these actors? This is incredible, 391 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 3: like just because of the way that the storyline progresses, 392 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 3: and it like really feels like you're watching a movie, 393 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 3: but and of course it's not. I mean, it's like 394 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 3: it's so much there's such a narrative and it's like 395 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 3: it's not just like a ghost hunting thing or something, 396 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 3: no offense to any of that. It's it's it's just different. 397 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 3: It's like a full like storyline. Like I don't know, 398 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 3: it's it's really incredible. I just I think it's so great. 399 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 2: I'm always happy to hear that. It's funny because there's 400 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 2: so many people who do think we're actors. They think 401 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: that Hellire is like a Blair Witch Project type of thing. 402 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 5: We're the worst actors on the face of the planet. 403 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 5: Like I can't even imagine. 404 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 2: Oh, we had to do recreations for the chron and 405 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 2: we had to reshoot them because we're such terrible actors 406 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: that Karl had to like you had to like shoot 407 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 2: it sort of fuzzy and out of focus and like 408 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 2: just on our lower half. 409 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, like don't show our faces at all because we 410 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 5: just like we're we are so bad at it. 411 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 4: There are there's tons of people who. 412 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 2: Tons of people, which is like, it's kind of funny 413 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: because I guess, I mean sure, I guess I tried 414 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: to take it as a compliment. But a lot of 415 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 2: the a lot of the credit there go to Carl 416 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: who's our director of photography and the editor, he's able to. 417 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: He has a really difficult job when it comes to Hellier, 418 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 2: especially because he's just taking hundreds and hundreds of hours 419 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: of footage from like over seven years and having to 420 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 2: make them coherent for the viewer, because like, we could 421 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 2: sit and spend all day, but when you have you know, 422 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: forty five minutes an episode. Yeah, he's just really really 423 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 2: good at it and has a really great artistic eye. 424 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,719 Speaker 2: And Hellier does this really interesting thing where, you know, 425 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 2: Carl decided to shoot it as a film, so it 426 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 2: doesn't look like other paranormal television shows. It's shot with 427 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 2: like cinema anamorphic lenses. It has a score. We actually 428 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: have someone who scores it. 429 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 3: It has oh my god, the theme song has been 430 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 3: in my head for the past few years. 431 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: Right, so great, it's so good, And all of those 432 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 2: things kind of combined to do something I think is 433 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 2: very important for people who want to experience the paranormal themselves. 434 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 2: It brings your mind into this liminal place where you 435 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 2: know that what you're watching is is real. It's a 436 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 2: it's a documentary, but it looks and feels and sounds 437 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 2: like a film, and so your mind goes into that 438 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 2: liminal spot where anything is possible, and I think it 439 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 2: really does. You know, there's a lot of subtleties in 440 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: Hellier and a lot of things baked into Hellier. There's 441 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 2: the idea that we're doing this big ritual and that 442 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: the people who watch it become part of that ritual. 443 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 2: And the countless people contact us all the time telling them, 444 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 2: telling us that things are happening in their lives because 445 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: of Hellier, because they've watched Hellier. I can't speak to 446 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 2: that very much, but I do think that there is 447 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: there's magic in that series and the way that people 448 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 2: experience it. 449 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 3: Well, what's the for you know, like, what's the I 450 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 3: guess elevator pitch or whatever people say, you know, what's 451 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 3: the what's the TV Guide version of what it is? 452 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 3: For anyone that has never seen that? 453 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 2: Holy shit, can you imagine a lot? 454 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: I know, it turns into a whole. 455 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 2: It's like I always joke that it's a show about goblins. 456 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 2: That's not about goblins. 457 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 458 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: It starts off with us investigating one of the strangest 459 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 2: emails we've ever gotten, this case or this sky and 460 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 2: in this tiny, old, dying coal town of eastern Kentucky, 461 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 2: Hellier says that there's these little beings, these little goblins, 462 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 2: coming out of a mind shaft on the edge of 463 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 2: his property. They're tapping on his windows at night. They're 464 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: scaring his children, and they stole his dog, and that 465 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 2: this enigmatic figure by the name of Terry Wrist told 466 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 2: him to contact me and my childhood ghost hunting team, 467 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 2: Like the there's no reason to ever contact us because 468 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 2: we we just look like kids who really like Jackass 469 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 2: and went ghost hunting with medieval weapons. 470 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 3: Like it's silly, now, Pa, coming from the drag world, 471 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 3: hearing any pun name always gets me excited, and Harry Wrist, 472 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, that sounds like an incredible drag king. 473 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 2: But yeah, I love I love it when people email. 474 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: This happens. 475 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: We get these emails once or twice a month where 476 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 2: somebody will email us and I love this. This is 477 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: great because in a way, hell Here is very much 478 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 2: like a crowdsourced investigation. But sometimes someone will email us 479 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 2: and we'll go, oh my god, did you know that 480 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: if you say Terry Wrists really fast, it's terrorist. Yeah, yeah, wow, 481 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: I think you just cracked. 482 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 3: We got oh I figured it out right away. But 483 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: well then I turned into something else later on. But yeah, yeah, okay, 484 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 3: so sorry. 485 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 2: Well we as we as we go to explore this case, 486 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 2: we find this connection to this very strange book that 487 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,719 Speaker 2: was released by ritual magician by the name of Alan Greenfield, 488 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: who was a ufologist who became involved in the the 489 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 2: ot O and Thelma, which is ritual magic based around 490 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: principles that Alistair Crowley. I'm sorry, Crowley, I get a 491 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 2: lot of flak for that Alistair crow espoused in things 492 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 2: like Book of the Law. There's a book called Secret 493 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 2: Cipher of the Euphonous which is all about using ritual 494 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 2: magic to investigate, summon, and repel extraterrestrial entities, ultra terrestrials. 495 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: And it involves Injured Cold, it involves the Mothman, it 496 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: involves goblins, all of that stuff, and it was a 497 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: very strange book. And then we start to slowly meet 498 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: characters who are from this book, and every little step 499 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 2: that we take ends up leading us further and further 500 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 2: into this really strange place where by the end of 501 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 2: season two spoiler alert, we've gone from investigating goblins to 502 00:29:47,640 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 2: summoning old gods with magic rituals in caves below Kentucky. 503 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,959 Speaker 3: I want to say that at some point in the 504 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 3: second season, I think. 505 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: You guys cover this for a sec. 506 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 3: The idea kind of going back to what we were 507 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 3: talking about with like magic having to do with cryptids 508 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 3: and that sort of a thing. And I remember when 509 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 3: I first started learning about Alistair Crowley that that he 510 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 3: was doing work in Lockness, and then it made me think, like, 511 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 3: I wonder if that's if that is, you know, a 512 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 3: manifestation of something, you know, if he created the Lockness 513 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 3: Monster or whatever, and so I mean, what are your 514 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 3: thoughts on all that? 515 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: Oh, I know what? 516 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 4: That he was doing a ritual at the Buluskin House. 517 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: I think it was the Abremlin ritual, which is like 518 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 2: a really intense, very long ritual that you know, there's 519 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,959 Speaker 2: a fantastic film that is sort of gives you an 520 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: idea of what the Abremlin rituals like. It's called a 521 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 2: Dark Song, and I highly highly recommend it. It's incredible, 522 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 2: it's beautiful, it's scary, but it's the best depiction of 523 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 2: ritual magic in a fictional film that I've ever seen. 524 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 5: But it was the what he didn't He wasn't able 525 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 5: to finish the ritual to completion and then shortly thereafter 526 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 5: the Monster. I am a big believer in the idea 527 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 5: that often. 528 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: He tore a hole in reality, like that he manifested 529 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 2: something into existence. I don't know, but it is an 530 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 2: interesting coincidence. 531 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 3: So, Hellier, is there a third season where you guys at. 532 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, there, I mean, I think it's a matter of when, 533 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 2: not if. The first two seasons came out in the 534 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 2: same year, which is crazy, uh, And you know, we 535 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 2: have a lot of ideas about where it's going to go. 536 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 2: We have ideas about who we still need to talk to, 537 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: things that we still need to do, rituals we need 538 00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 2: to complete, and yeah, I just I I don't think 539 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: Helly is the thing that really stops. You know, we 540 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: can kind of try to unnaturally put a cap on it, 541 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 2: but we'll definitely continue it as far as it wants 542 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: to take us, because I don't think that it's done yet. 543 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 2: I think there's still work to do and there's still 544 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 2: I mean, my own personal opinion on it. And this 545 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 2: is the fun thing is we all have our own 546 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 2: ideas about what this means. But I think what you're 547 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 2: watching and Hellier is you're watching you are watching an 548 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 2: initiation of people becoming better magicians or becoming magicians at all. 549 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 2: And at the same time, there are so many viewers 550 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 2: who are becoming magicians alongside of us. And I don't 551 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: think that journey is done. 552 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 3: I love it so much. I truly I tell everybody 553 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 3: about it. I just think it's it's so fun and 554 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 3: it's it just it covers so much ground paranormally and 555 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 3: and I do you always appreciate that, like, uh, intersection 556 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 3: of different ideas of the paranormal. I mean doing things 557 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 3: like you know, the God Helmet and the Estence method 558 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 3: and like, you know, stuff that's more traditionally ghost hunty 559 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 3: as you're in you know, talking about hypnosis and UFOs 560 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 3: and like it's just it's all of it and in 561 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 3: such a cool way that makes sense. 562 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 5: And yeah, that's so it's always really nice to hear that, 563 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 5: because that tends to be like one one of the 564 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 5: things that people will like hyper focus on that they 565 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 5: hate about it. 566 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: Well, it's like, I don't want to sound. I don't 567 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 2: want to sound this is going to come off. I'm 568 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 2: trying to think of how how the best way to 569 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 2: stay is out offending somebody hellier requires you to do homework. Sure, 570 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 2: and not everyone like people who watch like traditional paranormal television. 571 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 2: I watch traditional paranmal television. We appear on it all 572 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 2: the time. But they you have your hand held and 573 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: you're told what to think and what to believe. By 574 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 2: traditional paranormal television, there's always there's a three act narrative 575 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 2: structure that you know you've got. The first act sets 576 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: up the problem, the second act is the investigation. The 577 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 2: third act is telling the client how to fix the problem. 578 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 2: It's solved, it's done. That's not how it works, ever, Yeah, 579 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 2: in any paranormal case, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, 580 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 2: And so Hellier requires you, you know, you get out 581 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 2: of it what you decide the work, you know, what 582 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 2: kind of work you decided to put into it. 583 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 5: It was a big deal, I think for us to 584 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 5: have it feel really authentic and to have it feel 585 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 5: like the person the people watching it are another a 586 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 5: fellow investigator with us, because we wanted everyone to see 587 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 5: our dead ends. We wanted people to see moments when we, 588 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 5: you know, were the theory we were running with came 589 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 5: up against a brick wall and we just had to 590 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 5: kind of abandon it. At that point, we wanted it. 591 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 4: To feel really real and and give. 592 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 5: You know, a paranormal investigat and high strangeness investigation, like 593 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 5: an authentic chance at, you know, being in front of people, 594 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,399 Speaker 5: because it's so strange and so wild. And I think 595 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 5: part of what is great about it is when you 596 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 5: when you show it in its authenticity it I think 597 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 5: it really resonates with people in a big way. 598 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 2: And and you know, Hellier, it's a lot of things, 599 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 2: but it's a show about reading books. 600 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, it also. 601 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 2: And I love that people have stacks of books after 602 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 2: they watch it, and they can come up with their 603 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 2: own ideas. And we try really hard not to tell 604 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 2: anyone what to believe. Like we we just decide for 605 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 2: yourself how you think this works. We have our own opinions. 606 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 2: We're never gonna we don't want to hold anyone's hand. 607 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: We don't want to tell someone what to believe. We 608 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 2: want them to have your own adventures and read the 609 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 2: books and decide what you think. 610 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, well you certainly recommend a lot of like other 611 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 3: things to check out and other things to look into. 612 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 3: And I really appreciate that too, because you guys talk 613 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 3: about stuff that I'm like, what like this is some 614 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 3: you guys are weird, like like really getting deep into 615 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 3: this ship. Like it's not just it's it's like advanced learning, 616 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 3: Like there's a. 617 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: Lot of but it's like such a good way. 618 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 5: You know. 619 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 3: It's like things that I didn't even know about yet. 620 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 3: And I feel like I talk so much about all 621 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 3: this stuff all the time, and I don't know the 622 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 3: thirty seventh parallel, Like I was like getting like all 623 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 3: into it. 624 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 1: It's great. 625 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 2: Ah man, that's great. That's that's the best. Calling us 626 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 2: weird is the best compliment you give us. 627 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 3: I always say it's the opposite of boring. I mean, 628 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 3: opposite of weird is boring being a good thing to 629 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 3: be exactly. But wait, I was just gonna ask you, well, 630 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 3: I was just thinking, like, when you a traditional paranormal show, 631 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 3: it's and it's understandable when you know about production and stuff, 632 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 3: but they only have a few days and so you 633 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 3: can accomplish so much. And that's what's so cool about 634 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 3: this one is that you guys and years and yeah, 635 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 3: sometimes that's you know what it takes, and that's how 636 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 3: it should be. 637 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 2: I don't want this to sound dismissive of paranormal television, 638 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 2: but this is our real life. This We don't turn 639 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 2: this off when the cameras are off, Like this is 640 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 2: what we do for a living, Like this is this, 641 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 2: We live this, We experienced this. The amount of a 642 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 2: psychological pain that Hellier has caused us is unbelievable. 643 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: We are going to. 644 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 2: Have to go to therapy because of because of it. 645 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 2: It's a real it's real. This is where this is. 646 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 2: This is our lives. This is where we live. The 647 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 2: reason Dana and I even are together is because we 648 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 2: ran rival ghost hunting teams as kids. We hated each other. 649 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 2: We've we've been involved in this for forever, so it's 650 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 2: always you know, I love it. I think that you know, 651 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 2: can't be Paranormal television is awesome. It's great, but it's 652 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 2: also kind of frustrating when people believe that, like Mountain 653 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 2: Monster is legitimately fighting Bigfoot every week, you know, Like 654 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 2: it's I. 655 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 4: Think also it's it's like it's just nice to. 656 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 5: Have an alternative too, you know what I mean, Like 657 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 5: it's nice to sort of like have a kind of 658 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 5: panormal content or TV for everybody. So if you're you know, 659 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 5: if you are a fan of like traditional ghosts, hunting shows. 660 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 5: They exist in they're out there, and now there's, you know, 661 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 5: an alternative for people who maybe want to dig their 662 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 5: their you know, heels in a little bit and kind 663 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 5: of embed themselves with a group of investigators. It's just 664 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 5: cool to have like that alternative. We could be that alternative. 665 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 2: I guess. We actually had the first season of Hellier 666 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 2: in the Can for like a year before we decided 667 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 2: to throw our hands up and release it ourselves, because 668 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 2: every time we would take it to a network, they 669 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 2: would say, well, you have to find goblins, like you're 670 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,399 Speaker 2: going to have to find goblins? Like what if we 671 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 2: just blue sky in here? What if we went back 672 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 2: and every episode was you finding a goblin in a 673 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,720 Speaker 2: different cave in a different state. That's not what it's about, 674 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 2: And how are you going to guarantee it? They're like, 675 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 2: oh no, don't worry about it. The subtext is there 676 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 2: for anyone who watches a lot of paranormal television, and 677 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 2: it just didn't feel right to us. We were We 678 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 2: just kind of threw our hands up, and I'm glad 679 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 2: now that we self released it because it's done much 680 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 2: better and been much more well received than I ever 681 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,919 Speaker 2: would have imagined if I'd listened to network executives about 682 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 2: what people actually wanted. 683 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh that's so cool. What is your inbox? 684 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 5: Like? 685 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,759 Speaker 1: I mean, I can only imagine it is colorful. That 686 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: has to be nightmare. 687 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's a lot of like really great, uh 688 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 6: and wonderful people having had their own incredible experiences, and 689 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 6: then occasionally it's. 690 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 4: Like very very scary people. 691 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 5: Sure, but it's if anything, I think what is fascinating 692 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 5: about it is how many people feel that it kind 693 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,919 Speaker 5: of that hell You're itself sort of is a great 694 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,720 Speaker 5: example for something that they felt in their own lives 695 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 5: that they've never really had something to kind of point 696 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 5: as to a reference for. So I find that like 697 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 5: more often than not, people are like I, I've experienced 698 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 5: synchronosity storms like the ones that you guys experience in Hellier, 699 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 5: and I didn't know how to explain that or I 700 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 5: didn't know how to properly share that feeling with other people. 701 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,879 Speaker 5: And it kind of it's cool because it is it's 702 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 5: nice even just for us to know that there are 703 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 5: other people out there that are kind of that they 704 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 5: feel as if they're in that current. Because I like 705 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 5: referring to it as a current and it feels like 706 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 5: something that you're in. When you're really kind of going 707 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,840 Speaker 5: with the flow of of you know, trying to communicate 708 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 5: with that phenomenon, there's there's a weirder vibe that you 709 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 5: sort of feel and it's cool that, you know, there's 710 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 5: so many people who've said this is what I feel sometimes, 711 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 5: and it feels important. It feels mystical to me, and 712 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 5: now I have a point of reference where I can go. 713 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 5: It's like this, you know, and that's that's a really 714 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 5: cool thing. Yeah. 715 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 3: I mean when you guys get these emails that are like, 716 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 3: there's goblins in my yard and like, how do you 717 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 3: you know, how do you what's your credibility checklist or 718 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure it's case by case, but I 719 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 3: think I don't know. 720 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 5: I think that I mean, and Greg probably will have 721 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,800 Speaker 5: a different answer, But for me, I'm really always looking 722 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 5: because I feel like at this point the you know, 723 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 5: everyone jokes that like, you know, there's a hell you're 724 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 5: drinking game and whenever we say synchronicities drink and we're like, you'll. 725 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: Dive out, you will do that. 726 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 4: But I really feel like. 727 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 5: For me, the synchronicities are are the guideposts. So they 728 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 5: when I start seeing that popping up, like let's say 729 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 5: someone contacts us and they're you know, they're they're having 730 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 5: a similar experience or they they want us to come 731 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,280 Speaker 5: and investigate. I'm really looking for like synchronicities. 732 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 2: Around dates, words, sometimes the name of something that we've 733 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 2: been very invested in and haven't told anyone about. 734 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then you're like, Okay, well, there's no way 735 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 5: that that person would have ever known that. And so 736 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 5: those for me personally tend to be the things that 737 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 5: I'm really looking for as far as kind of that 738 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 5: you know that that idea of the phenomena going with 739 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 5: look over here, like this is the direction you need 740 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 5: to go into next. I sort of trust that it 741 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 5: will put the right the right kind of things in 742 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 5: front of us that will will recognize them right away. 743 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, you let the phenomena guide your guide your hand. 744 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 2: And there's other you know, there's other times when you know, 745 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 2: you get really good at sniffing out sure you know, 746 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,799 Speaker 2: if someone's trying to pull one over on you, you 747 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 2: kind of you kind of know, and there's questions you 748 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 2: can ask that will get to the heart of that 749 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 2: really quick and people's responses. How they respond is another way. 750 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 2: And you know, like like I said earlier, our first 751 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 2: instinct with every single thing is to try and give 752 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,800 Speaker 2: people the tools to solve their own problems. I don't 753 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,800 Speaker 2: need to come in and play the hero and stoke 754 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 2: my ego and you know, give you an exorcism or 755 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 2: anything like that. That's not what we're about. We want 756 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 2: to help you help yourself. And so we can give 757 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 2: people advice and ideas on how to fix their own problems. 758 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 2: And if that doesn't work, you know, the next step is, okay, 759 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 2: well let's you know, maybe there is something we can do. 760 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 2: We don't like typically doing residential cases because there's you know, 761 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 2: there's there's psychology issues there, there's I think in a 762 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 2: lot of those cases they need to talk to a psychiatrist, 763 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,240 Speaker 2: and neither of us are psychiatrists. We don't have training 764 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,040 Speaker 2: in therapy or anything like that. And so I'm very 765 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 2: aware of making someone's situation worse simply by being there. 766 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 2: But you know, when it comes to like somebody has 767 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 2: a haunted object or something and it's causing them distress, 768 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 2: we're happy to take it off their hands. That's easy 769 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 2: to do, and most of the time, just getting rid 770 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 2: of it solve the problem and we just make a 771 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,719 Speaker 2: little more room on our shelves and sometimes we get 772 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,720 Speaker 2: to experience something fascinating and document it. But yeah, it's 773 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 2: it's always case by case because. 774 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,479 Speaker 3: It's tough, like having an open mind of like, oh, well, 775 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,080 Speaker 3: you know, I like to believe, like sure, why couldn't 776 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 3: this be possible? But like it gets to like a 777 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,320 Speaker 3: fine line sometimes where somebody comes to me with something 778 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 3: and I'm like, I don't know if that yeah, that's well, 779 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 3: it's really out there. 780 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 2: I think one of the easiest ways is to determine 781 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 2: whether the person actually wants help, because sometimes someone just 782 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 2: wants someone to confirm that they have a spooky ghost 783 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 2: in their house, you know, because everyone wants to be special. 784 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, and those situations are the most difficult ones where 785 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 5: you can you can give every you can give someone 786 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 5: kind of every explanation as to the weird things that 787 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 5: are happening maybe in their houses or something like that, 788 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,960 Speaker 5: but the reality to the situation is they just want 789 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 5: you to kind of validate the experiences that they are having, 790 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 5: and those are tough because it's sort of like sometimes 791 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 5: you will find like legitimate mundane answers, and they often 792 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 5: just kind of refuse them because they want to continue 793 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,279 Speaker 5: believing that, you know, it's not the pipes you know, 794 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 5: contracting from heat and banging in your basement, that it's 795 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 5: something else going on. 796 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 4: So those are tougher kind of situations. 797 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 2: But especially when it's dealing with like unresolved trauma. Yeah, 798 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 2: you know, they want they want the orb in that 799 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,759 Speaker 2: photo to be Grandpa, and you don't want to say, well, 800 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,320 Speaker 2: that's a lens artifact. You know, it's it's it's difficult. 801 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 2: And even if you tell these people like no, that's 802 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 2: you know, I can tell you how this happens. You know, 803 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 2: I can put you in touch with the photographer who 804 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 2: can explain how this works and how there's water droplets 805 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 2: in the air and when you use the flash they 806 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 2: show up on camera. But sometimes it's better to just say, 807 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 2: if that brings you comfort, why do you need me 808 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 2: to validate that? 809 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 6: You know? 810 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:16,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you guys, we should probably wrap it up soon, 811 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 3: but we have got to talk about phenom when all gone. 812 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're so excited you're gonna be there. 813 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,799 Speaker 1: I will be there and I can't wait. 814 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 3: You know, this is my debut speaking at things, Is 815 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 3: it really yeah? I mean obviously I've like done a 816 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 3: billion things speaking to audiences and talking about ghosts and 817 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,719 Speaker 3: all that, but I never I feel legitimate. 818 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,040 Speaker 2: You've not done a conference before, never feel We are 819 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:45,920 Speaker 2: so honored. 820 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: So thank you guys for giving me that. 821 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, thank you for giving us the honor 822 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,359 Speaker 2: of hosting you well, tell us what it is can't 823 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,319 Speaker 2: wait and what people can look forward to and how 824 00:46:55,320 --> 00:47:00,719 Speaker 2: they find it and everything. Phenomena con is born of 825 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 2: a pandemic a couple of years ago, when you know, 826 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,919 Speaker 2: our livelihood shut down. The livelihood of our friends shut 827 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 2: down too. You know, part of the way that we 828 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 2: make money is going around the country and talking to people, 829 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,879 Speaker 2: and we're in a very fortunate position where we don't 830 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 2: have to do that, but a lot of our friends have. 831 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,399 Speaker 2: They're not you know, they've got books they've got to sell, 832 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,439 Speaker 2: they've got things they've got to promote. And we got 833 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,919 Speaker 2: bored not being able to go anywhere. So I said, 834 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 2: let's try our best to bring the conference experience online, 835 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 2: and we planned a three day event with we only 836 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:41,319 Speaker 2: ever invite people who we genuinely love and genuinely feel 837 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,360 Speaker 2: like they have something fun and interesting and new to 838 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 2: say to people, and we put together this this amazing 839 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 2: list and it just went it. It went off like gangbusters. 840 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:58,319 Speaker 2: Everybody was so psyched on it because, you know, we 841 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 2: didn't realize they're there's people who've never had the opportunity 842 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,319 Speaker 2: to attend a paranormal conference before. They've got maybe they 843 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 2: have social anxiety, maybe they just don't have the funds, 844 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 2: maybe they have to stay home and care for somebody. 845 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 2: These people finally had the opportunity to attend something like this, 846 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,799 Speaker 2: and it was it was just so much fun. It 847 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 2: really replicated the conference experience. As far as I know, 848 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,360 Speaker 2: no one's ever done one before, an online paranormal conference, 849 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 2: and so we kept it going and we're bringing it 850 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 2: back for round three. It's happening at the end of 851 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 2: the month, the twenty fifth through the twenty seventh. We 852 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 2: host the whole thing through our Patreon page. It's free 853 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,960 Speaker 2: for people who are already members of our Patreon and 854 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,879 Speaker 2: if you're not, it's fifteen bucks. You can you can 855 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 2: join for the weekend, you can leave when you're done 856 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:54,520 Speaker 2: if you want. But there's tons of fantastic speakers on 857 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 2: everything from voodoo to ufology to Bigfoot. Dana's going to 858 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:04,320 Speaker 2: talk about incorporating magic into paranormal investigation. I'm going to 859 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 2: talk about egg Grigor's for fun and profit. There's all 860 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 2: kinds of fun stuff and there's movie screenings that have 861 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 2: to do with the paranormal. Uh. Yeah, it's gonna be great. 862 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,680 Speaker 2: I'm really excited about it. But if people are curious 863 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:23,200 Speaker 2: about it, they can go to Patreon dot com, slash 864 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:28,120 Speaker 2: Para Museum, p a r A Museum and all the 865 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 2: informations there. 866 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,200 Speaker 3: And I'm gonna be giving a speech about like finding 867 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 3: the fun and the funny and the paranormal and keeping it, 868 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,399 Speaker 3: you know, light, and finding the humor in it, which 869 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 3: is hell yes, so important, and that was so much 870 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,759 Speaker 3: of like when I started this podcast, it's always been 871 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 3: kind of the focus for me, is like, yeah, sure, 872 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,359 Speaker 3: there's like moments when when this stuff is so far 873 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 3: from being funny, it's not even funny, but like, you know, 874 00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,960 Speaker 3: so much of it, there's there's so much fun to 875 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,760 Speaker 3: be had and and I've spent so many years watching 876 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,080 Speaker 3: people that I'm like, is this even. 877 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:07,200 Speaker 1: Fun for you guys? 878 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:07,440 Speaker 6: Right? 879 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:12,880 Speaker 3: Sounds that miserable, Like come on, you're talking to dead people, 880 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,000 Speaker 3: you're talking to invisible you know, humans, like it's fun. 881 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. 882 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 2: One of the best pieces of advice I ever got. 883 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, I don't remember where I heard this 884 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,920 Speaker 2: or who told this to me, but one of the 885 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:25,759 Speaker 2: best pieces of advice that I ever got that I 886 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,560 Speaker 2: think is so important for more people in the paranormal 887 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 2: who have an interest in the paranormal to hear is 888 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:37,160 Speaker 2: laughter is the best exorcism. M It is the best 889 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,719 Speaker 2: way to clear space. Yeah, and if you can have 890 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,720 Speaker 2: a good sense of humor about things that are scary, 891 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:45,959 Speaker 2: you can withstand just about any that is. 892 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 3: Great, because yeah, I mean some moments it's not great 893 00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:51,799 Speaker 3: and then all of a suden everyone starts laughing, and 894 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,640 Speaker 3: it's like that bad energy just out of the data. 895 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,280 Speaker 2: I'll tell you the way that I deal with fear. 896 00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,320 Speaker 2: I just start to giggle and laugh. 897 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,600 Speaker 5: Help my initial the most terrifying thing happens, and I'm 898 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,359 Speaker 5: like laughing about it like a completely because it. 899 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,200 Speaker 2: Feels so absurd. There's invisible monsters and they're terrifying. Yeah, 900 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:12,279 Speaker 2: it's very funny. 901 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is funny to just sort of look at 902 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,040 Speaker 3: like sometimes I just sit here and I'm like, I 903 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,240 Speaker 3: get to talk to people about like it's so weird, 904 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,719 Speaker 3: Like right, it's so cool, though, I don't know, it's 905 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,080 Speaker 3: all fun. Well, guys, you've been so generous with your time. 906 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,960 Speaker 3: Thank you for Oh my god, you so fun. I 907 00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,600 Speaker 3: hope we can do this again, absolutely many more times 908 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:41,239 Speaker 3: in the future. But yeah, tell tell everybody just everything 909 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,120 Speaker 3: that whatever you want them to know, where they can 910 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:43,920 Speaker 3: find you and all that. 911 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:46,359 Speaker 2: Well, I think we're both pretty easy to find. 912 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:47,560 Speaker 4: We're pretty easy to find. 913 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,560 Speaker 2: I do have something I'd love to shout out if 914 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 2: people are interested in supporting a cosmic horror film. I'm 915 00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,640 Speaker 2: doing something that's a little outside of my comfort zone. 916 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,400 Speaker 2: I'm very excited about. I'm executive producing a horror film 917 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 2: based around the concept of Eedgrigor's, which we've talked a 918 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:13,520 Speaker 2: little bit about, and the script is so scary. The 919 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 2: cinematographer is incredible. The director is a had directed a 920 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,799 Speaker 2: really fantastic short about an alien abduction support group. It's 921 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,440 Speaker 2: called Prefigured, and you can find that on YouTube. But 922 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 2: it's it's I'm very very excited about it because I've 923 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,160 Speaker 2: never seen a horror movie like this before and it's 924 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:37,480 Speaker 2: kind of about what happens when enough people put enough 925 00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,799 Speaker 2: energy to summon something terrible into the world. And it's 926 00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,120 Speaker 2: called The build Out and we're fundraising for it right now. 927 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,640 Speaker 2: We're fifty percent. We're fifty percent of the way there 928 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,840 Speaker 2: and we've got about a month ago. And if you 929 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 2: want to learn more about this movie, and you know, 930 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,960 Speaker 2: have your name attached to something that I truly believe 931 00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,200 Speaker 2: is going to change horror horror films had to the 932 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,279 Speaker 2: Buildout movie or the buildoutfilm dot. 933 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:09,880 Speaker 3: Com amazing, Oh my god, that sounds great. Thank you 934 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,719 Speaker 3: so much to Greg and Dana Newkirk. Oh, we'll see 935 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 3: you at Phenomena Con this weekend. Patreon dot com slash 936 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,120 Speaker 3: Para Museum to get those tickets and I'll say hi 937 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,319 Speaker 3: to you. Can't wait speaking to Patreon this week. I 938 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:30,400 Speaker 3: have me talking for about forty five minutes about supernatural 939 00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:34,799 Speaker 3: Catholicism and that's my second tier Patreon dot com slash 940 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,640 Speaker 3: Roz Dresfels. I would love if you would support There's 941 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,440 Speaker 3: a link in the description of this episode. Please subscribe 942 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,440 Speaker 3: to the show and rate it five stars on Apple Podcasts. 943 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 3: If you have a ghost story, leave it in a 944 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 3: five star review or put it in our Facebook group 945 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,640 Speaker 3: called Ghosted by Roz dres Feles. You can email me 946 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 3: your ghost stories at ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com. 947 00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,879 Speaker 3: If you want to be on a listener episode, do that. 948 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,200 Speaker 3: Send me some bullet points to go through by ros 949 00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,640 Speaker 3: at gmail dot com and put in the subject line 950 00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:10,360 Speaker 3: listener episode. I am on Instagram at Roz Hernandez and 951 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,480 Speaker 3: TikTok and Twitter is It's Raz Hernandez. I'll be back 952 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,840 Speaker 3: next week. I love you all, both living and dead. 953 00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,840 Speaker 1: But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't 954 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,719 Speaker 1: haunt me. Hey back 955 00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,720 Speaker 4: Star a podcast network