Speaker 1: So I have a confession to make. I've cried at work.
Speaker 1: I've definitely cried at work, and that is totally fine. Fine,
Speaker 1: you guys, we are here to break down the taboo
Speaker 1: of tears in the office. This is game plan. Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm Rebecca Greenfield and I'm Francesco Leavie, and this week
Speaker 1: we're talking about that big no no of crying at work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a known thing that you probably shouldn't
Speaker 1: get teary eyed in the office. Yeah. For a story
Speaker 1: I'm working on, I asked career experts about this phenomenon
Speaker 1: and they specifically tell women and men too that under
Speaker 1: no circumstances should you show extreme emotions in the workplace,
Speaker 1: especially of the crying variant. So, yeah, everybody knows you're
Speaker 1: not supposed to cry at the office. But let's like
Speaker 1: back up and look at that a little bit. What
Speaker 1: is so bad about crying? Why is it a taboo? Well,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of research that shows that people judge you,
Speaker 1: as we've shown on our show for almost everything, you
Speaker 1: get judged in the workplace, and when it comes to crying,
Speaker 1: it makes you look weak and too emotional for the job,
Speaker 1: especially for women. And that's that's not something that's not
Speaker 1: a sign of leadership. And I think it just makes
Speaker 1: other people uncomfortable. So it's like the real reason you
Speaker 1: shouldn't cry at work, it has more to do with
Speaker 1: other people than with you. But the thing is, the
Speaker 1: more we've talked to people, the more we realize that
Speaker 1: almost everybody has a crying story somewhere in their work history.
Speaker 1: And in fact, we asked some of our co workers
Speaker 1: here at Bloomberg to share with us some of their
Speaker 1: crying stories, and here's what they had to say. I
Speaker 1: once cried at work because one of my former bosses
Speaker 1: was a big, mean baby. I've never cried at work
Speaker 1: because I don't think I have sufficient access to my emotions,
Speaker 1: and also because I think I probably cried it works
Speaker 1: so many times on the inside that it became unnecessary
Speaker 1: to actually cry on the outside. I cried at work
Speaker 1: because of unexpectedly condescending and sexist advice or feedback from
Speaker 1: a female manager. I have never cried at work because
Speaker 1: I don't think I've had an occasion to cry at work.
Speaker 1: Although I cry all the time. I'm a big crier.
Speaker 1: I cry at home. My music makes me cry. I
Speaker 1: have never cried at work because, um, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like you shouldn't. People shouldn't cry publicly.
Speaker 1: I I personally view it as a sign of weakness.
Speaker 1: But I have cried at work about personal matters. Uh.
Speaker 1: When I told my boss about my divorce, I cried.
Speaker 1: And I've learned about the death of my brother in
Speaker 1: law at work, and I also cried in a stairwell.
Speaker 1: Then I kind of sat at my desk for a while,
Speaker 1: but I was kind of shaking with rage. Happy songs
Speaker 1: make me cry, Sad songs make me cry. I almost
Speaker 1: always cry at a movie, but for some reason, it
Speaker 1: just hasn't happened at work, or if it has happened,
Speaker 1: I've repressed the memory. So I had my little cry.
Speaker 1: I came back, sat down, said nothing, and he came
Speaker 1: up and he said, you know, I'm really sorry. I
Speaker 1: was over the line. I apologize. If you're not human
Speaker 1: at work, you've got the wrong idea about work. I
Speaker 1: don't think it should be excessive, but I think it's
Speaker 1: sort of perfectly natural in the right circumstances, in the
Speaker 1: right seting. So I really loved that clip, and I
Speaker 1: especially related to the person who talked about crying because
Speaker 1: of personal reasons. So they're pretty intense things like a divorce,
Speaker 1: wars um or a death in the family. But that's
Speaker 1: definitely why I cry at work. Yeah, you were telling
Speaker 1: me that you're more of a like cry at work
Speaker 1: over something personal that happened, whereas I can only remember
Speaker 1: one incidance a few years ago where I cried for
Speaker 1: a reason like that. More commonly, when I've cried at work,
Speaker 1: it's been because, like I'm having a really intense conversation
Speaker 1: about work and something really gets to me. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, people cry at the office for various reasons,
Speaker 1: and it turns out that not only is this happening
Speaker 1: so this is a reality that we need to deal with,
Speaker 1: but also it could be good for you. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: science that shows that when you start crying, you stimulate
Speaker 1: certain brain chemicals that then rebalance the equilibrium in your mind,
Speaker 1: so you actually feel better after you've cried. That makes
Speaker 1: sense to me, Right, It's kind of like when your
Speaker 1: nausea is on't either up you feel better, have to
Speaker 1: goin to let it out. Um, And this is not
Speaker 1: We're not saying that you should be crying every single
Speaker 1: day at work. If that's happening, that's probably a sign
Speaker 1: that there something else going on. Yeah, that's a red flag.
Speaker 1: But what we're saying is that one it happens, and
Speaker 1: that too, maybe it's more than okay that it happens,
Speaker 1: and this advice that you shouldn't do it doesn't address
Speaker 1: that at all, Right, And because it happens, we need
Speaker 1: maybe less career advice about how bad it is to
Speaker 1: cry at work and more advice about what you should
Speaker 1: do once you've started crying, and to figure out what
Speaker 1: some of that advice might be. Our guests today are
Speaker 1: crying experts. Susan Orlean and Sarah Thier host the podcast
Speaker 1: cry Babies, where they ask people about what movies, music,
Speaker 1: and TV shows make them cry. So thanks for coming on, pleasure,
Speaker 1: So why don't we start with why a show about crying? Well?
Speaker 1: Why not? Is our reaction? I guess well, Sarah can
Speaker 1: tell um specifically where the idea original with her. But
Speaker 1: Sarah came to me and said are you into crying?
Speaker 1: Which I will never forget as a question kept me
Speaker 1: a little bit in suspense, like what what's the next
Speaker 1: part of this conversation? Um? And I love the idea
Speaker 1: that we were glimpsing into people's um what was an
Speaker 1: emotional release for people, And the range of things that
Speaker 1: people have brought to the show have been so broad
Speaker 1: and so interesting and and it's really been it's like
Speaker 1: a portal into much more, obviously than just it's not
Speaker 1: surprising how people, even people who are a little guests
Speaker 1: we've had who are like, I never cry, then of
Speaker 1: course they end up having more crying kings than any
Speaker 1: other guests. But a couple of especially guys, tend to
Speaker 1: do that, like I'm not much of a crier, but
Speaker 1: oh my god, I really lost it at this concert,
Speaker 1: and then they'll have this beautiful story about it. I
Speaker 1: feel like it it taps into um something that they
Speaker 1: didn't even know about themselves in a way, or maybe
Speaker 1: weren't willing to admit, which is sort of delicious for us.
Speaker 1: Have you noticed any common themes that run through these stories? Oh? Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And and that has been really interesting. As we've done
Speaker 1: the show for a fairly long time now, we've got
Speaker 1: a lot of anecdotal evidence of what really pushes people's buttons.
Speaker 1: Number One Pixar Movies. Yeah, there's no question is yeah,
Speaker 1: Pixar is the number one, like just genre c hue.
Speaker 1: But the scene that thematic cues are uh well, one
Speaker 1: major one is sense of longing and the path not taken,
Speaker 1: wistfulness that really gets people, and um, the hero's journey,
Speaker 1: people who go beyond themselves in life and sacrifice a
Speaker 1: great deal witnessing that makes people cry as well in art,
Speaker 1: and there of course lots of parent child m issues. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: when when we started the show, I assumed lots of
Speaker 1: people would come with UM romantic heartbreak as the most
Speaker 1: typical umque for crying, and that has been surprisingly underrepresented.
Speaker 1: It's it really is much more um these themes of
Speaker 1: of wistfulness and looking at a past that you can
Speaker 1: no longer reclaim. It's a different kind of emotion. It's
Speaker 1: more introspective. They're not the typical heartbreak my my girlfriend
Speaker 1: left me, my husband, you know, walked down. I mean,
Speaker 1: not the stuff of country music songs, not the broken heart,
Speaker 1: as much as it is something deeper. Hear you guys
Speaker 1: talk about what makes people cry. It's not exactly the
Speaker 1: same reasons we cry at work. I think when I
Speaker 1: think about crying at work, it's kind of like a
Speaker 1: shock to your system or a frustration like a blow
Speaker 1: to your ego. Um, have you guys cried at work? Yes? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: well you know it's um. I was. I was enjoying
Speaker 1: looking back on my tears at work because for many
Speaker 1: years I've worked at home alone, and you know, I
Speaker 1: certainly cry, but when that's because I just am not
Speaker 1: getting work done, but no one's around to appreciate your yeah,
Speaker 1: and so it's like not crying. Um. But I My
Speaker 1: most epic cry at work was I had a job
Speaker 1: shortly after I got out of college, working at a
Speaker 1: radio station. I hated the job, and I did probably
Speaker 1: a really off job at my job because I didn't
Speaker 1: like it. And one day I was called in by
Speaker 1: the general manager and basically basically he fired me. And
Speaker 1: I was so irate and I was humiliated, but I
Speaker 1: was also really angry because I thought, I hate this job.
Speaker 1: It's not the job that you presented it as being.
Speaker 1: And I know I'm doing a bad job, but it's
Speaker 1: a bad job, and it's it's not what I thought
Speaker 1: I was signing up for and against what I don't
Speaker 1: even think I thought it through. But I started crying,
Speaker 1: and it was tears of both God, damnit it, I
Speaker 1: don't want to be fired, but also you can't do
Speaker 1: this to me. This is not right. And I didn't
Speaker 1: give it a second thought about is this a good
Speaker 1: or bad move. It was all in the moment, meant
Speaker 1: just pure because I was actually shocked that I got fired,
Speaker 1: and I just stood my ground and said, hey, this
Speaker 1: job is not what you told me I was gonna
Speaker 1: be doing, and I'm really unhappy and I'm and you know,
Speaker 1: went on and the tears are just gushing. Really, so
Speaker 1: you didn't feel any like you didn't. You didn't feel
Speaker 1: a shame or like try to curb it. You just
Speaker 1: went with it, you know. I was. I was not thinking.
Speaker 1: I didn't have that overlay of thinking, Okay, this isn't good.
Speaker 1: I should dial it back and be calm. I just
Speaker 1: I was caught so off guard, and I had really
Speaker 1: been this had been brewing because I really was not
Speaker 1: happy in the job, and it really had been pitched
Speaker 1: to me as something very different. So it was pure,
Speaker 1: unfiltered reaction. And in a way, because it was so authentic,
Speaker 1: I think I caught this guy completely off guard. When
Speaker 1: I finally caught my breath, he sat there for a
Speaker 1: minute and then he said, all right, well, why don't
Speaker 1: we try to read think this job and make it work.
Speaker 1: So I basically talked him cried him out of firing me.
Speaker 1: But it worked. Yeah, I mean more than him going okay, okay,
Speaker 1: stop crying. You can have your job. I've done that
Speaker 1: with a speeding ticket before, exactly, but I tried with
Speaker 1: this meeting ticket. It didn't work. Um, I think that
Speaker 1: he he said, all right, I I understand what you're saying,
Speaker 1: and let's try to change this job and make it work.
Speaker 1: And I was astonished. I wouldn't say that. I then thought, good,
Speaker 1: anytime things aren't going my way, I'm just going to
Speaker 1: start crying. I didn't put this in my tool kit
Speaker 1: as a thing to do in the future when I
Speaker 1: was frustrated, but I'll never forget it because it was.
Speaker 1: It was such a a surprise ending. I think also
Speaker 1: the lesson of your story is like, crying can work,
Speaker 1: but it has to be authentic, right, and I I
Speaker 1: have to really emphasize this. This is was. It wasn't
Speaker 1: where I suddenly thought, well if I start to cry,
Speaker 1: he'll he'll back off. I think it was. It was
Speaker 1: so real, and he sensed that it was real, that
Speaker 1: it was me just being so frustrated and feeling like
Speaker 1: I hadn't been able to express this, and also that
Speaker 1: I was right. They had hired me to do something
Speaker 1: that I wasn't really being used to do and it
Speaker 1: felt bad. So you want to hear my crying story. Yes,
Speaker 1: very different from Susan. It's completely different from Susan's. I
Speaker 1: was doing a play at Lincoln Center UM with David
Speaker 1: and Amy Sadara Us and I played like a cricket
Speaker 1: and an old lady and we all played multiple characters
Speaker 1: in it, and I was so proud of my work
Speaker 1: in it, and uh we did. We had our opening night.
Speaker 1: It was part of Lincoln Center Festival, was back in
Speaker 1: the nineties. And we had our opening night and it
Speaker 1: went great. And then the next day all the reviews
Speaker 1: came out and they were all good. But in the
Speaker 1: New York Times review, they didn't say anything bad about me.
Speaker 1: They just didn't say anything about me. And I came
Speaker 1: to the theater that night and I was just like,
Speaker 1: everybody was like hi in that and you know that
Speaker 1: kind of sympathy thing. I can trigger you to cry
Speaker 1: the minute somebody is doing something that feels like sympathy,
Speaker 1: or that anybody trying to give you a hug. In
Speaker 1: one of those moments, everybody was like hey, And it
Speaker 1: was a huge farcical comedy and we were all improvisers
Speaker 1: and we were never serious with each other. So in
Speaker 1: that kind of environment for someone to just burst into tears,
Speaker 1: which I did, nobody knew what to do because we
Speaker 1: were all used to being flip and sarcastic with each other.
Speaker 1: And I had the genuine display of emotion of just
Speaker 1: feeling like and I couldn't even speak. It was like
Speaker 1: the ugliest cry on the planet. It was convulsive snot bubbles,
Speaker 1: the works, and um the only person who could, Like
Speaker 1: all the other actors in the show were just sort
Speaker 1: of like, I don't know how to deal with honest
Speaker 1: human emotion. I'm used to faking it all the time, right,
Speaker 1: And when when you're not the person that people expect
Speaker 1: crying from, I think it's it can be even worse
Speaker 1: because then like you've because they assumed like, oh, you've
Speaker 1: never cried before, so this must be the most upset
Speaker 1: you've ever been exactly, but it's not. Doesn't necessarily map
Speaker 1: that way. It's that old saw of they told me
Speaker 1: this wouldn't happen, and that's exactly what it was, because
Speaker 1: I was the that was the even keeled person and
Speaker 1: among all these super ultra creative types. So the only
Speaker 1: person who could talk to me was David Sedaris's boyfriend
Speaker 1: now husband, Hugh, who was our set decorator, Hugh Hamrick.
Speaker 1: He came up to me and he's like, I just
Speaker 1: want to tell you that you're my favorite person in
Speaker 1: the show. And I was like, that's making me crime
Speaker 1: and more like, I just felt this sort of really
Speaker 1: unwarranted just hatred towards him for showing me like human
Speaker 1: decency that none of the other horrible actors in the
Speaker 1: show in the show could say to me was my
Speaker 1: husband was in the show. That show. I'm just remembering.
Speaker 1: Nobody could could be nice to me except Hugh, and
Speaker 1: I rejected him. I was like, I'm not the best
Speaker 1: person in the show. Oh I was awful. And then
Speaker 1: I had to, of course, you know, put vizine in
Speaker 1: my eyes and um put tons of extra concealer around
Speaker 1: my nose and out, and I felt like I had
Speaker 1: a head cold from all the it's not and what
Speaker 1: what not, and it was just awful. And I think
Speaker 1: that's the night that like all my relatives and my
Speaker 1: in law came and saw the play was blow energy.
Speaker 1: It was horrible, but you know, it was a learning
Speaker 1: experience for sure. There's also the lesson is also there's
Speaker 1: no right way to talk to somebody who's crying in
Speaker 1: front of you in the workplace. Yeah. I talked to
Speaker 1: this executive coach who tells me that she coaches executives
Speaker 1: on how to deal with crying because it is so
Speaker 1: awkward for people to be around people who are crying
Speaker 1: that nobody, nobody knows what to do. And her number
Speaker 1: one piece of advice is just like stay quiet, Like
Speaker 1: saying something makes it worse usually. But you know what,
Speaker 1: now that I'm older, I have to disagree with what
Speaker 1: I just agree with that because I look back at
Speaker 1: what Hugh did and it was a very beautiful human
Speaker 1: thing that he did. And it kind of goes along
Speaker 1: with my rule now, which I call I'll always go
Speaker 1: to the funeral, which means when someone passes away or
Speaker 1: when their relative passes away and they need support, Yes,
Speaker 1: it's probably going to be awkward for you, but you
Speaker 1: can't put a price tag on that just gesture of
Speaker 1: kindness that you're making towards someone that you care about,
Speaker 1: even if they don't know how to deal with it,
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? I can imagine um in
Speaker 1: my big work cry. I am sure that my boss
Speaker 1: was deeply uncomfortable, and he wasn't someone who could have
Speaker 1: in any way come over and put a hand on
Speaker 1: my shoulder and said, hey, I'm really sorry that you're
Speaker 1: I mean it just there was nothing he could do
Speaker 1: except sit there and in in a way that was
Speaker 1: that was fine. UM, I think it. It's better than
Speaker 1: a lot of the other options. I'm not sure what
Speaker 1: the would have been. One thing, um also that I
Speaker 1: noticed I didn't have a warm relationship with my boss.
Speaker 1: I hardly knew him. Um. It was always different from
Speaker 1: that point on, And I won't say better. I won't
Speaker 1: say that it was closer, but it was different. It
Speaker 1: was different. Two have this very emotional encounter and I
Speaker 1: left that job just a couple of months later. Um,
Speaker 1: because I got a job I really did want. But
Speaker 1: it was our relationship upped up until that point had
Speaker 1: been completely phony or it existed, but he didn't know
Speaker 1: me in any way um, I didn't know him, and
Speaker 1: so there was some value. Even though it was I
Speaker 1: felt kind of bashful because it was a little like
Speaker 1: tearing my clothes off, um. But it did change the relationship,
Speaker 1: and I would say probably changed it for the better.
Speaker 1: It was sort of an authentic moment that we had
Speaker 1: together that was upsetting that ended up resolving surprisingly in
Speaker 1: a good way. That there was nobody was I certainly
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to be careful. I just let it out,
Speaker 1: And I agree that was the same with mine. I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, at the time, I felt mortified because because
Speaker 1: I felt like I had this realization that these people
Speaker 1: liked me better when I was just this sort of
Speaker 1: surface person. They liked it when it was light and
Speaker 1: fun and we were always joking around. And I had
Speaker 1: broken I burst through that um glass not ceiling, wall floor,
Speaker 1: the glass floor. I burst through it and it kind
Speaker 1: of pops something. But I'm still friends with almost all
Speaker 1: of the people that were in that production, and I
Speaker 1: know that they have of tender feelings for me because
Speaker 1: I did that. They always tell me like I have
Speaker 1: a good heart as opposed to their evil, black hearts.
Speaker 1: But um, I know that it enriched our relationship in
Speaker 1: the long run, which is what you're talking about too.
Speaker 1: So is that the case for crying at work then
Speaker 1: that you know, once you have this emotional bonding experience,
Speaker 1: that you have a more real relationship with your coworkers,
Speaker 1: or at least feel better. I think it's probably case
Speaker 1: by case. I I don't think it would be wise
Speaker 1: to see it as a as a universal um probably
Speaker 1: though crying at the CIA, Yeah, I'm just thinking. You know,
Speaker 1: you were in a play and it was a creative
Speaker 1: um environment. I was in a I mean, radio station
Speaker 1: wasn't the most creative place in the world, but there
Speaker 1: wasn't the sense of competition and um rank And I
Speaker 1: just don't know that each I think each work situation
Speaker 1: would be so different that it's kind of hard to
Speaker 1: to say. Also, crying can be induced by so many
Speaker 1: different occasions. Or it can be that you're at work
Speaker 1: and you're upset about something not related to work and
Speaker 1: having trouble getting it out of your mind. Um, And
Speaker 1: that that's a whole other issue. We've Yeah, we've talked
Speaker 1: about like the work related cry versus the personal stuff
Speaker 1: is happening that bleeds into work and whether one is
Speaker 1: better than the other. Well, I I think it's tricky
Speaker 1: if you're so distracted and upset about something that's going
Speaker 1: on outside of work that you have trouble composing yourself
Speaker 1: at work. I think that may maybe that's not the
Speaker 1: best thing. I mean, maybe it suggests you need a
Speaker 1: little break from work because it's I don't think it
Speaker 1: would be a very a very receptive place to be.
Speaker 1: It also suggests you're in worse shape than you think.
Speaker 1: If you're really having trouble while you're at work, UM
Speaker 1: have creating a separation from the stuff that's troubling you.
Speaker 1: That's what I always cry at work. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think that. I think work cries for me are
Speaker 1: usually I mean that was that. My story is about
Speaker 1: a review of the play I was doing, but it
Speaker 1: had a lot to do with my own feelings of insecurity.
Speaker 1: If you're if it's work cry, I feel like it's
Speaker 1: it's just a trigger, you know, and then it goes
Speaker 1: into something deeper, especially if you're really sobbing, right and
Speaker 1: we spend so much time at work that you know,
Speaker 1: when personal stuff happens, there's there's there's a decent chance
Speaker 1: that it will happen, just like during the hours when
Speaker 1: you're on the job, you're going to get that bad
Speaker 1: email or phone call that was going to trigger something.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think before email, um and people were
Speaker 1: at work and they were really separated from their personal lives.
Speaker 1: Now you you go to work and you can be
Speaker 1: as actively involved with all the stuff that's going on
Speaker 1: in your personal life just seamlessly because you're getting emails
Speaker 1: or you're uh texting, and if you're having an issue
Speaker 1: with a partner or some family drama, it can still
Speaker 1: be there right in front of your face. I think
Speaker 1: in the past, people came to work and you know,
Speaker 1: they would come home and find out, all right, what
Speaker 1: happened while I was away. It's not an ongoing UM.
Speaker 1: And if they were men, they be like, I don't
Speaker 1: care what happened when I was right, as long as
Speaker 1: nobody's bleeding. When I get home, bring me a whiskey,
Speaker 1: three fingers whiskey, Sam, make it a double. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on and talking to us
Speaker 1: about crying. Um, maybe we should all go home and
Speaker 1: have a good cry. I was very moving. I know
Speaker 1: I'm feeling I'm feeling a little weepy. To watch Schindler's List.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having us on. It's really been a pleasure
Speaker 1: talking to Okay, so neither Susan nor Sarah we're willing
Speaker 1: to go out on a limb and advocate crying as
Speaker 1: a work strategy. I do think they both had kind
Speaker 1: of transformative experiences that came out of crying at work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I do think there is a way to be
Speaker 1: strategic about your crying at work. The story that I
Speaker 1: was reporting about crying in the office brought up this
Speaker 1: research out of Harvard where this woman did five different
Speaker 1: studies measuring people crying at work, and when they were crying,
Speaker 1: they after they're crying, justified their tears for various reasons,
Speaker 1: and one of the reasons was, Oh, I'm so passionate
Speaker 1: about my job. Another reason was oh I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: just getting so emotional about this. And then in the
Speaker 1: third scenario, they just didn't justify it at all. And
Speaker 1: when you frame it in terms of passion for work,
Speaker 1: people rated criers as more competent. So the best reason
Speaker 1: to cry at work, or what's seen is the best
Speaker 1: reason is just that you're so into your job that
Speaker 1: you're overcome with emotion. Right, and you can see this
Speaker 1: playing out like in a performance review, which is a
Speaker 1: scenario where people cry. I've also written about that, Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're in a performance review. Your boss is something that
Speaker 1: just hits a nerve. You start crying because you can't
Speaker 1: really hold it back. And if you say I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I just love my job so much that it's hard
Speaker 1: to hear you think that I'm not dedicated, they'll think
Speaker 1: of you this as this dedicated worker instead of as
Speaker 1: this like weak crier who can't handle criticism. I love that.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of when I used to wait tables
Speaker 1: and I felt like the best way to get a
Speaker 1: good tip was to seem kind of annoyed. And I
Speaker 1: feel like that made people think that I must be
Speaker 1: working really hard because I was so stressed up. Did
Speaker 1: that work? I don't know. I never really was very
Speaker 1: good at it. I didn't get very good tips. I
Speaker 1: tried a lot of different strategies. Well. Besides for the
Speaker 1: passion thing, another thing that I was told by an
Speaker 1: executive coach was also too. As I mentioned a little
Speaker 1: in the interview with Susan and Sarah um, trying to
Speaker 1: give yourself some strategies for if you're gonna cry, figure
Speaker 1: out your plan, you know, like do you need to
Speaker 1: excuse yourself to get a tissue? Do you need to
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom, do you need to ask for
Speaker 1: a break? Like knowing what you're gonna do, I think
Speaker 1: is more helpful than trying to triage as you're tearing up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I just want to call out the gender thing.
Speaker 1: I know we always go there, but it's actually harder
Speaker 1: for women to stop crying once they've started because our
Speaker 1: tear ducks are smaller, And I just think that's fascinating.
Speaker 1: Of course we get stigmatized for it, but that one
Speaker 1: second period you have when you start to well up,
Speaker 1: we have no control over it. Once that starts, you
Speaker 1: need to already be thinking about how you're going to
Speaker 1: explain you're crying and not try to stop it. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like the vocal fry phenomenon, like we dislike
Speaker 1: it because women do it. It's a lady things, a
Speaker 1: lady thinks. So I think of men were crying all
Speaker 1: over the office, it would be more acceptable. Well, I
Speaker 1: think it is more acceptable when people get emotional in
Speaker 1: an angry way. We hear a lot of stories about
Speaker 1: passionate men in offices who punch walls because they care
Speaker 1: about their jobs so much. And those people aren't viewed
Speaker 1: this week, but they've also let their emotions get the
Speaker 1: better of them. It's true. As long as it's seen
Speaker 1: as passion, you're good and look, crying is going to happen.
Speaker 1: If we've established anything, I hope it's that all different
Speaker 1: kinds of people cry for all different kinds of reasons,
Speaker 1: so when it does happen to you, it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be this thing that ruins your whole job or
Speaker 1: even your day. I think that is a great segway
Speaker 1: to have pick takes half Fake Takes. So for this
Speaker 1: week's half Big Takes, we thought we would do a
Speaker 1: cry Babies version of half Big Takes song cry Babies,
Speaker 1: they ask people for cultural touchstones that trigger their tears,
Speaker 1: and I've thought a lot about this. Yeah, let's hear
Speaker 1: what's your what's your cry trigger? So one of my
Speaker 1: favorite movies of all time is the classic movie A
Speaker 1: League of their Own, which we did referenced crying in baseball.
Speaker 1: Is that the moment where you know? So in the movie,
Speaker 1: it's set in World War two and someone is coming
Speaker 1: to tell one of the women baseball players that their
Speaker 1: husband died, and you think that the main character, Gina Davis,
Speaker 1: is about to find out that her husband died, and
Speaker 1: it's very suspenseful. But then you find out that Betty
Speaker 1: Spaghetti's husband died, and you're supposed to be relieved, but
Speaker 1: you're like, you're not relieved because Betty Spaghetti's husband died.
Speaker 1: So you just spoiled a league of their own seen
Speaker 1: it yet, well, if you haven't seen it yet, Betty
Speaker 1: and plot point, But no, it's a surprise factory. It's
Speaker 1: what sus and Sarah we're talking about, right, It's that loss.
Speaker 1: It's a loss, and like I think they check your
Speaker 1: mind side, They check you because they're like, oh, you're relieved,
Speaker 1: psych No, of course you're not, because Buddy Spaghetti is
Speaker 1: just out of the woods. Yeah, but then here you
Speaker 1: go down another crying. Yeah, it makes me cry every time.
Speaker 1: I love that movie. Anyway, what about you, Well, for me,
Speaker 1: the challenge is not coming up with something that makes
Speaker 1: me cry. It's narrowing in town because it's so easy
Speaker 1: for me to well up at like TV commercials and
Speaker 1: songs and movies and pretty much anything. But I thought
Speaker 1: it was interesting that Susan or Sarah I can't remember,
Speaker 1: said that people generally don't talk about country music, because
Speaker 1: I could immediately think of like a half dozen country
Speaker 1: music songs that do make me cry. One of them
Speaker 1: is a beautiful Dolly Parton song that you wrote with
Speaker 1: Porter Wagner called Lonely Coming Down. I'd happily sing it
Speaker 1: for you. I don't think that's what our audience is
Speaker 1: really here for, so we want it. It's just about
Speaker 1: it's about her wait, oh my god, the song is
Speaker 1: about crying. It's about her waking up. She wakes up
Speaker 1: in the morning, Um looks over at the you know,
Speaker 1: the empty side of the bed. Her lover has gone,
Speaker 1: and she tries to hold back the tears, and then
Speaker 1: she just feels the lonely dripping down her face. Those
Speaker 1: are the lyrics. Then I feel the lonely dripping down
Speaker 1: my face. I mean, come on, are you crying? I'm
Speaker 1: like ready to cry. You can't see it, but Francesca
Speaker 1: is just salt tears. Salt tears. Yeah, that's gross. All right. Well,
Speaker 1: that was a really fun edition of half Big Takes,
Speaker 1: Half Baked Takes. Thanks for listening to another episode of
Speaker 1: game Plan. You can find me on Twitter. I'm at
Speaker 1: rs Greenfield and I'm at Francesca Today. You can tweet
Speaker 1: your half bag take or anything else you like to
Speaker 1: add game Plan, or if you prefer, you can give
Speaker 1: us a call and leave us a voicemail at two
Speaker 1: and two six seven zero one six six. If you
Speaker 1: like the show, please go to iTunes or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, subscribe, leave us a review at We
Speaker 1: love Reviews. We can't say it enough. The show was
Speaker 1: produced by Liz Smith and Magnus Hendrickson. The Head of
Speaker 1: podcast is Alec McCabe and we will see you next
Speaker 1: week him. There's no crying in baseball. There's no crying
Speaker 1: in baseball or workball for any balls, any balls,