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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 2: Our colleague Noel is not here today, but we'll be

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Speaker 2: rejoining us shortly.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer. All mission control dec it. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this the

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know? Matt, Is this

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Speaker 1: one of the episodes where we do a disclaimer? Should

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Speaker 1: we do a.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's let's do a disclaimer. Don't you want me

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Speaker 2: to run it? Here we go disclaimer. No part of

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Speaker 2: the following episode contains medical advice. If you are seeking

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Speaker 2: treatment for a physical or psychological melody, contact a qualified professional.

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Speaker 1: Perfect. Okay, so we've got that out of the way.

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Speaker 1: Everybody buy our new radium pills. I know, I know,

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Speaker 1: I know. We just got a deal on old radium

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Speaker 1: pills and we're reselling them on TikTok and Instagram. We

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Speaker 1: are kidding. That is not true, and you should not

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Speaker 1: buy things just because you see someone excited about them

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Speaker 1: on social media. It's an old, old practice.

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Speaker 2: And don't buy things with radioactive materials. Not a good look.

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Speaker 1: It's not the best look. It's a look that glows

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Speaker 1: in the dark sometimes. I mean, we're talking about snake

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Speaker 1: oil today, right, We're talking about things where a charismatic

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Speaker 1: authority figure tells you, Hey, trust me, the main stream

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Speaker 1: is lying to you. I'll let you in on the conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, man, you're in on the conspiracy and this stuff

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Speaker 2: I got right here. It's gonna make you stronger, thinner,

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Speaker 2: it's gonna cure you of that melody. As we said earlier.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you're drinking regular water. You don't have energized water.

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Speaker 2: Oh jeez, oh that's so familiar.

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Speaker 1: Do I need to explain, says the huckster. What energized

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Speaker 1: water is? Wow, you need a lot of help, and

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Speaker 1: for a reasonable fee, I can be the person who

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Speaker 1: helps you. I'll make you thinner, smarter, younger, faster. In

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Speaker 1: tonight's episode, we are exploring the concept of fake cures.

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Speaker 1: Over here in the US, this stuff is often called

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Speaker 1: snake oil. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, let's start with snake What the heck

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Speaker 2: is that it's a pretty great term. You should start

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Speaker 2: using it. If you don't use it in your everyday life,

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Speaker 2: it just means again, it's a fake cure. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of a stand in for the same thing, something a

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Speaker 2: substance that you either ingest, you apply to your skin,

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Speaker 2: you take it in some way, and it's supposed to

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Speaker 2: have curative effects for some problem, and really it's nothing.

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Speaker 2: It's the placebo effect made real.

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Speaker 1: Ooh, I love that you mentioned that part, because we

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Speaker 1: do know the placebo effect has an effect. As dumb

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Speaker 1: as that sounds, I gotta ask him, man, when I

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Speaker 1: was when I was learning about snake oil as actual

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Speaker 1: oil produced from snakes, I was surprised. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that was a thing. Did you know that there is

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Speaker 1: genuine snake oil?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Ben, tell me what I'm wrong here, what I'm

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Speaker 2: getting wrong. My understanding is that you could actually use

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Speaker 2: snake oil from certain species, or at least it was

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Speaker 2: used traditionally to apply to like the outside of your

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Speaker 2: skin or something if you don't have an open wound,

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Speaker 2: because the effects of that neurotoxin would actually like numb

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Speaker 2: your skin. Maybe or maybe that's wrong.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. I'm asking you, Matt, this is

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Speaker 1: this is the thing. You know, the last time I

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Speaker 1: try never to kill things like snakes or spiders, But

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Speaker 1: the last time I killed a snake, I wasn't thinking, ooh,

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Speaker 1: time to make some snake oil like like that did

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Speaker 1: not occur to me. And you know, you and I

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Speaker 1: have seen our fair share of serpents in the field.

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Speaker 1: We don't really think of them as a resource. And

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Speaker 1: it's weird, Like what you're pointing out absolutely makes sense.

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Speaker 1: You know, back in the day in Chinese traditional medicine,

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Speaker 1: I believe they used oil from water snakes to do

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Speaker 1: just what you're describing to some sort of ointment or

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Speaker 1: salve on joints, right, I mean, this would this would

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Speaker 1: reduce pain from things like arthritis and so on. But

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Speaker 1: maybe I think you're onto something now that you mention it.

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Speaker 1: I think it may have functioned as a local anesthetic. Perhaps.

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Speaker 2: Look, that's just that's maybe. I don't know where I'm

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Speaker 2: pulling that from, Ben, that's just in the ether I'm

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Speaker 2: pulling it in, And it just feels like something that

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Speaker 2: would function perhaps like Lydakane maybe does nowadays. Oh this

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Speaker 2: makes except again I think lydakin you can use on

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Speaker 2: the inside of your mouth and stuff. So maybe don't

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Speaker 2: do that with snake venom. But snake venom is a

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Speaker 2: fascinating thing. Maybe we can talk about that really quickly

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Speaker 2: in some of the research here Ben that you you

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Speaker 2: found and that we kept looking at. Here just snake venom.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about, what do you do with snakes if

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Speaker 2: you get a hold of some, if they're venomous, you

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Speaker 2: might be able to make some money because extracting the

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Speaker 2: venom from a venom of snake can help by creating

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Speaker 2: anti venom. Except gosh, man, I didn't know how much

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Speaker 2: money was in anti venom.

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Speaker 1: It's a huge deal, right, it's crazy. You can also

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Speaker 1: look on I guess YouTube, if we're being honest, look

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Speaker 1: up milking cobras or something like that, and there's there's

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Speaker 1: this entire industry. Yeah, yeah, Matt, describe it.

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Speaker 2: You got it. It's almost hypnotic the way you can

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Speaker 2: watch the two fangs kind of move separately as it

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Speaker 2: goes into the contraption that's actually pulling the venom out

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Speaker 2: of the or it is. It's literally milking the venom

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Speaker 2: out of the fangs of these things. It's brilliant. But

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Speaker 2: there's Uh, there's another thing I just learned. It's a

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Speaker 2: type of anti venom that's being produced somehow through horses. Gosh,

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Speaker 2: I can't think of it completely. Oh no, it's right here.

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Speaker 2: It's called anavip.

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Speaker 1: Right, which is the it's Is it the same process

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Speaker 1: as the sheep injection to harvest antibodies?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think it's very similar, but it's it's derived

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Speaker 2: quote from the blood of horses immunized with the venom

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Speaker 2: from like specific snakes.

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Speaker 1: Pretty nuts, right, So there is something to snake oil,

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Speaker 1: at least in terms of venom from venomous reptiles. And again, yes,

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Speaker 1: there is a difference between poisonous and venomous. Huh. So Look,

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Speaker 1: as we always say, people of the past, of days

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Speaker 1: of yore, were just as intelligent or unintelligent as people

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Speaker 1: in the modern day. It worked with the information they had,

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Speaker 1: you know. I read a fascinating account was able to

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Speaker 1: corroborate this too, across a couple of different academic papers.

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Speaker 1: When the Chinese American population blossomed in the United States,

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Speaker 1: people from China brought over traditional medicinal practices with them,

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Speaker 1: and that's where we get the idea of snake oil

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Speaker 1: being rubbed on human extremities on the elbows or the weenness,

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Speaker 1: if you want to use the technical term. And and

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Speaker 1: then the West learned of anti venom technology all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden. Snake oil was like crypto. It sounded really good.

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Speaker 1: You had never experienced it, likely in the eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: but you had heard about it. And if someone comes

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Speaker 1: into town and they're selling authentic snake oil, right, and

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Speaker 1: they're branding it with something from you First Nations or

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Speaker 1: indigenous peoples, or they're branding it with some sort of

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Speaker 1: like yellow peril, racist Asian stuff, then you might look

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Speaker 1: at the little wagon and say, this guy's legit. He's

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Speaker 1: gonna help me with my brain fever or my dropsias

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Speaker 1: or oh handedness.

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Speaker 2: Definitely it's the brand new snake oil. Olives.

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Speaker 1: We got to talk about the history, right, Why did

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Speaker 1: snake oil become? Like you said, Matt, the catch all

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Speaker 1: phrase for fake medicine?

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Speaker 2: Oh, Ben, you found this. It comes from the late

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Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds when a retired cowboy decided he was going

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Speaker 2: to move on mosey on down to another pasture. His

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Speaker 2: name's Clark Stanley and he has street name. What was it?

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Speaker 1: The rattle snake King. He beat the Tiger King, but

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Speaker 1: unfortunately he was he was alive well before the dawn

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Speaker 1: of Netflix specials. He claimed he had spent I think

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Speaker 1: it was two years. He's most often voted as saying

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Speaker 1: he's spent two years with Hope Spiritual Leaders, and they

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Speaker 1: taught him the secret of snake oil. So he bottled

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Speaker 1: this up and he sold it. It was called Snake

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Speaker 1: Oil Liniment, and he made a lot of money off

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Speaker 1: of this stuff until like nineteen oh seven to nineteen sixteen,

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Speaker 1: things were things were getting rough for him because you know,

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Speaker 1: you can only sell a fake cure for so long

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Speaker 1: before the people that survive your fake cure start asking

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Speaker 1: why it doesn't work?

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Speaker 2: Well, well yeah, or they're like, man, this works perfectly.

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Speaker 2: I survived, right enough, there's gonna be enough of that.

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Speaker 2: The people who don't survive don't write reviews. Maybe their

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Speaker 2: family does though, right. That's why it could be popular

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Speaker 2: and function for a long time, especially if you're dealing

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Speaker 2: in local markets, and if you're a traveling salesman, you're

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Speaker 2: only in town to make enough people angry for long

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Speaker 2: enough to then move on and do it again. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: in nineteen sixteen, the US government finally came down and

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Speaker 2: they said, oh right, mister cowboy rattlesnake King guy, what's

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Speaker 2: inside this here bottle? And what if they find no

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Speaker 2: medicinal properties? And they also found, oh, no snake oil.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like, no ingredients from any sort of snake at all,

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Speaker 1: no snake poop, no eggshells from snakes. No, like no

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Speaker 1: snake legs, which aren't really a thing.

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Speaker 2: But Kennecker, that would be something that would be something

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Speaker 2: snake legs, old snake legs.

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Speaker 1: That's actually that feels like a good street name. That's weird,

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Speaker 1: weird one. So they levied a penalty against this guy,

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Speaker 1: against our former cowboy Stanley aka the Rattlesnake King, and

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Speaker 1: Uncle Sam said, you gotta admit that you were wrong.

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Speaker 1: You got a pony up twenty dollars. That was about

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Speaker 1: five hundred bucks in twenty twenty three money. But again,

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Speaker 1: the snake oil in the US, the reason people call

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Speaker 1: bull yours snake oil. The guy who invented it didn't

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Speaker 1: even bother to put snake ingredients in his concoction. And

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Speaker 1: that's funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for money, and that's why we have snake oil.

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Speaker 2: You're welcome, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, also, there's no evidence that Stanley personally believed

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Speaker 1: in the thing he was selling. It does appear to

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Speaker 1: be a grift it. It does not appear that he

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Speaker 1: genuinely believed in some sort of medical efficacy for this

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Speaker 1: stuff he was selling. And as a result, now snake

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Speaker 1: oil is associated with grifting in some darkly hilarious ways.

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Speaker 1: But Matt, why is snake oil dangerous?

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Speaker 2: Snake oil is extremely dangerous because not only can taking

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Speaker 2: something that you believe is curing you of an ailment,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't actually help your ailment whatsoever. So you may

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Speaker 2: just die from that original ailment or become even sicker

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Speaker 2: and sicker believing that you're actually curing yourself in some

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Speaker 2: way or aiding in what you're suffering from. But the

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Speaker 2: second biggest problem with snake oil treatments is that sometimes

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Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about it in today's episode,

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Speaker 2: sometimes that substance, whatever it is that supposed to be

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Speaker 2: a cure all or a fix for the one thing,

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Speaker 2: it can cause other problems, sometimes even worse than the

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Speaker 2: ones that were from your originating disease or you know,

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Speaker 2: whatever it is that's troubling you in the beginning. And overdoses,

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, overdoses on substances are such a thing

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Speaker 2: we're going to get into.

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Speaker 1: Mm. Yeah. And in the US and in other countries

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Speaker 1: that don't have a developed healthcare infrastructure, right like in

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Speaker 1: the US, and other places that do not function the

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Speaker 1: way a developed country does with healthcare, people become frightened

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Speaker 1: by the high price of going to the doctor, right

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Speaker 1: of seeking treatment of some sort. They're thrown out in

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Speaker 1: the cold, you know what I mean, And they're searching

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Speaker 1: for alternative solutions. They're asking themselves what would I not

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Speaker 1: do to save my life? Or more often, what would

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Speaker 1: I not do to save the life of someone I love.

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Speaker 3: This is.

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Speaker 1: Why the FDA exists, the Food and Drug Administration, I mean,

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Speaker 1: regardless of political leanings, the US public increasingly agreed on

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Speaker 1: one thing. Back in the day. They said, all right,

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Speaker 1: if we go and buy something, it should be the

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Speaker 1: thing we thought we were buying. You know, no mystery

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Speaker 1: boxes or cans at the grocery store. No more ground

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Speaker 1: beef with human fingers. Is that a hot take?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, no, that's a great idea. Theoretically, the FDA,

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Speaker 2: the Food and Drug Administration, is one of the best

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Speaker 2: ideas humans have had. Really, honestly, let's know what we're doing,

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Speaker 2: Let's know what we're buying, ingesting, and using as medical treatments.

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Speaker 2: Let's just figure it out and well. And I think

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Speaker 2: maybe even the better underlying concept of the FDA is

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Speaker 2: to create a an infrastructure, an organization, a group of

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Speaker 2: specialists and experts that you can trust. You can put

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Speaker 2: your trust in them, because when they say something is

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Speaker 2: in this product, it is definitely in that product or not.

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Speaker 1: I like that or not. At the end, it is

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Speaker 1: definitely in this product or not.

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Speaker 2: There's problems. There's real problems.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed. It's so weird too, the way that the

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Speaker 1: way that literature can move action at least back then,

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Speaker 1: you know. One of the primary motivating factors for the

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Speaker 1: creation of the FDA was a book, a quite disturbing

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Speaker 1: book about stockyards in Chicago. It was called The Jungle,

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Speaker 1: written by a guy named Upton Sinclair, and it shed

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Speaker 1: a lot of light on things people would rather not

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Speaker 1: think about, you know what I mean. And anyway, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's meat production, right, yes, in this case it's meat production.

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Speaker 1: And this led to the creation of the FDA, attempting

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Speaker 1: to keep consumer goods safe until you know, lobbying forces

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Speaker 1: buy them out, and we could say that's the end

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Speaker 1: of griffs. But fellow conspiracy realist, what would you say

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Speaker 1: if Matt and I told you that these griffs panaceas

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Speaker 1: no stroms. They're called sometimes snake oils. They continue and

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Speaker 1: escalate in the modern day.

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Speaker 2: They continue. You say, no, wait, hold on, let's take

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Speaker 2: a quick word from our sponsor and hear about some

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Speaker 2: fully FDA approved products.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy, all right, snake oil is

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Speaker 1: an insult? Right If someone says what kind of snake

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Speaker 1: oil are you selling here? They don't mean it as

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Speaker 1: a compliment.

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Speaker 2: Right, Usually not, it's usually well, unless it's essential snake oil. Now,

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Speaker 2: if it's essential snake oil, right, you can probably trust

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Speaker 2: and use it and it'll work. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: If you're an anti venom laboratory and you say what

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Speaker 1: kind of snake oil are you selling here? You know

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Speaker 1: you might not mean it as an insult. And they

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Speaker 1: they're probably the most defensive people about that. They're probably

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Speaker 1: the people most likely to say, this is not snake oil, sir,

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Speaker 1: this is anti venom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is asp asp extract, this is cobra contra.

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Speaker 1: All right, sure, hire us to name your weird drugs.

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Speaker 1: This stuff is Another iteration of this is the idea

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Speaker 1: of patent medicine, which continues today. Patent medicine real thing

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Speaker 1: over the counter remedies for usually minor medical situations. What

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Speaker 1: we mean by over the counter is you don't need

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Speaker 1: a prescription. It's not like some sort of powerful psychiatric

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Speaker 1: drug or physically addictive drug that requires a physician to

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Speaker 1: check in with you. It's like you got a cold, right,

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Speaker 1: you got a headache. You know, you got some aches

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Speaker 1: and pains in your joints, and you just don't have

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Speaker 1: a snake handy for the oil.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's let's give an example, Ben and correct me

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Speaker 2: if I'm wrong here. But I think a good example

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Speaker 2: of a patent medicine is quinine. Maybe, like it's a

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Speaker 2: substance that was used for medicinal purposes, and it was

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Speaker 2: like if you created something with quinine back in the day,

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Speaker 2: a tonic and the tonic water these days that we

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Speaker 2: consume you you could patent that, right, and now you

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Speaker 2: can sell it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And the idea of patent medicine or patent in

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Speaker 1: general goes back to European monarchies, where a monarch or

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Speaker 1: a court administration would issue something called a letter's patent,

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Speaker 1: which would coside a product or service. So it could

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Speaker 1: be medicine, but it could also be we like the

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Speaker 1: way this guy makes shoes, or we like the way

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Speaker 1: this lady makes lace. They're our official cosined person, which

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Speaker 1: means which means that if you are a grifter, if

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Speaker 1: you are selling a fake medicine, a medicine that does

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Speaker 1: not do what it purports to do, you no longer

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Speaker 1: have to convince the public. You just have to convince

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Speaker 1: the queen or the king or the duke or whomever. Right,

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Speaker 1: I know, sorry almost, Yeah, you found that's very kind.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, so look, this is also the stuff that

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Speaker 1: pioneered advertising, right this the folks who were whether they

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Speaker 1: were on a wagon or whether they were out in

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Speaker 1: the town square, waving a scroll with a little wax

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Speaker 1: mark on it. What are those gold you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about?

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Speaker 2: Signed with a seal?

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Speaker 1: What do you mean a seal? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: a like a seal of some sort of authoritative approval. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and they're waving it and they're going, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: the king likes this the low local authority figure tells

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Speaker 1: me this is one hundred percent awesome. It's stopping the plague.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, really, if you put yourself in that position.

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Speaker 2: Let's say you're on the side of a street it's

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Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds, you're moving towards the nineteen hundreds, and

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Speaker 2: you know, you see a I guess it would be

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Speaker 2: like a carriage, but it's not really a carriage. It's

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Speaker 2: a horse with a buggy of some sort in the back, right,

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Speaker 2: and it's just strolling through. It stops in place, the

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Speaker 2: person gets out, opens up a few flaps on the thing,

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Speaker 2: and on those flaps there are signs that say things

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Speaker 2: like this that have the seal, they have that kind

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Speaker 2: of thing. It's like, it's not the first example of signage,

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Speaker 2: right and that kind of pr perhaps, but it is.

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Speaker 2: It's probably one of the biggest innovations that occur. Because

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Speaker 2: you've got so many people selling so many different things,

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Speaker 2: they're coming up with different kinds of signs, different kinds

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Speaker 2: of tactics to convince you that their medicine is better

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Speaker 2: than the other guys. It's pretty I don't know, it's

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Speaker 2: it's kind of it's messed up when you think about

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Speaker 2: what was actually happening. But I think maybe I just

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Speaker 2: love that humans have such a competitive nature for that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing that it ends up developing into this

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Speaker 2: huge the whole business of marketing and pr and all

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Speaker 2: that stuff. You can just see the threads of it

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Speaker 2: from this one thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, Yeah, And I'm sure they got pretty I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they became pretty insidious with stuff, you know, like

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Speaker 1: there would be someone like doctor peppin jumps guaranteed patent

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Speaker 1: pending foot care tonic which has one hundred percent no

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Speaker 1: human urine in the bottle, unlike doctor you know, Jubbin'

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Speaker 1: PEPs over in the next town.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right now, no one's peed in the bottles.

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Speaker 1: They're just they're they're making these range accusations.

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Speaker 2: You know, now beeing on the bottles, that's a whole

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Speaker 2: different thing, but not in that bottle.

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Speaker 1: That's how you cure the you know, let's how you

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Speaker 1: cure the glass anyway. So, uh so, look, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about these days of yr in which people were again

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Speaker 1: working with the information they had, and they were just

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Speaker 1: as smart as anyone listening tonight. They were not able

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Speaker 1: to hop on a phone, to hop on a computer,

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Speaker 1: they were not able to contact an expert at the

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Speaker 1: very moment they wanted answers, and so, Matt, we would

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Speaker 1: think when we armed with all the information of the

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Speaker 1: world at our fingertips, people would be a bit more uh,

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Speaker 1: a bit more skeptical, a bit less credulous, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, right, yeah, yeah, you might think that, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Know, sure, oh god, yeah yeah. Unfortunately, it appears that

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Speaker 1: in a world of endless information and endless access to information,

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Speaker 1: the conspiratorial genre of snake oil grifting is thriving. It

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Speaker 1: is a golden age of selling people bull and I

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Speaker 1: am not joking. We are not joking here. There might

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Speaker 1: be someone selling bullpoop. Oh dear, you know, for like

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Speaker 1: a vague unease or for or for you know, are

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Speaker 1: you worried about your children being born with more than

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Speaker 1: five fingers on each hand? Take doctor Awkwards patented polydactyl

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Speaker 1: prevention potion.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I love the piece. Thank you, Ben. Well,

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Speaker 2: you're you're on the money here, Ben, because we talk

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Speaker 2: about our social media bubbles all the time, and your

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00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 2: social media bubble is not just the people you follow

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Speaker 2: in the types of videos that you you know, stay

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Speaker 2: on for a longer amount of time on TikTok or

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Speaker 2: Instagram or whatever. Your social media bubble is also the

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Speaker 2: ads that get served to you. And sometimes those ads

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Speaker 2: aren't just you know, a company that paid money in

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Speaker 2: order for this ad to show up on your social

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Speaker 2: media page. Often it's somebody promoting something, right, which it

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00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: means we're all at risk at any time from having

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Speaker 2: somebody we like or somebody we think we like promoting

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Speaker 2: something to us that may not be fully above board.

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Speaker 2: And maybe they're that person who's promoting it isn't even aware.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and your algorithm knows it. Yes, your algorithm is.

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Speaker 1: Everybody should know this immediately. Your algorithm is weaponized against you,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter who you are, and if you're

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00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: on there, it is weaponized with the idea of enticing

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Speaker 1: you to consume further right to participate in the economy.

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Speaker 1: And the algorithm knows no morality anymore than any other

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Speaker 1: kind of any other kind of technology. That's why if

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Speaker 1: you are in heartbreaking situations like you have a loved

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00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: one with a terminal or chronic condition, right, or you

400
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: yourself have a chronic condition, you will be inundated with

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00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: modern day snake oil. We're gonna Matt, you and I

402
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: talked about this off air. We do have to flip

403
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Speaker 1: the tone a bit. We have to go toward a

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00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: very difficult thing. Fake cancer cures are so common.

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Speaker 2: They're so common becase because there's a desperation that comes

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Speaker 2: with yourself or a family member being diagnosed with cancer,

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Speaker 2: no matter what cancer it is, no matter where it

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00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 2: is in the body, there's a desperation that is born,

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Speaker 2: right and it grows because often, you know, using Western medicines,

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Speaker 2: cures for cancer, or treatments, let's say, of cancer often

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Speaker 2: take a long time, are brutal on the body, and

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00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 2: don't work all the time. Sometimes they do, but not

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Speaker 2: all the time. And when something isn't working like that

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00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: for especially for a long enough time, or maybe you

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00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: don't even have access to that type of treatment because

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00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: you either can't afford it right, or it's you're in

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00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: a stage that's too late to be treated. In those ways,

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Speaker 2: you are going to seek anything that could potentially help, right,

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Speaker 2: And people have historically preyed on that because cancer has

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Speaker 2: been with us for a long time, and the desire

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Speaker 2: to make money has been around for a long time.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes when you can throw away those morals. It

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Speaker 2: becomes a pretty pretty easy answer of yeah, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to at least try to make money in this way,

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Speaker 2: not us or not. I'm just saying that's where the

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Speaker 2: desire comes from. For somebody who's going to sell a

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Speaker 2: cancer cure because they know about the desperation.

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Speaker 1: And for people who are combating a chronic or terminal

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Speaker 1: medical condition like cancer. Right then you get to a

430
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: point where you say, well, I'll try whatever, Yes, as

431
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: long as I know it won't kill me, or you know,

432
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: in the darker TikTok TikTok moments of mortality, I'm dying anyway,

433
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: why don't I give this a go? And predators are

434
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: aware of that. Fake cancer cures are so common that

435
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: the FDA has dedicated page addressing the issue. They say, look,

436
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: don't mess with something unless the FDA has approved it,

437
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: unless there is some sort of clearance or green light

438
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: where we can tell you this thing won't actually kill you.

439
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: And they know that they are losing the battle. They

440
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: cannot catch every falling sparrow of the grift. There's a

441
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: long quote. We could probably skip a lot of it,

442
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: but they talk about bogus cancer treatments and they say,

443
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: it includes pills, capsules, powders, creams, teas, oils, and treatment

444
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: kits that are often advertised assh natural treatments. And it's

445
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: funny that the FDA just side note, Maad, it's funny

446
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: that the FDA sayssh natural because, as we talked about

447
00:30:52,480 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: in some explorations of grocery store wording natural doesn't mean anything.

448
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: You can say all natural ingredients?

449
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: What what is unnatural?

450
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: Right?

451
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 2: What is what is unnatural?

452
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: Is that?

453
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: Just does it mean you used a chemical process to

454
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: make something? Well, are those chemicals natural? Did you make

455
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: all of those chemicals on your own? Or the molecules

456
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: that formed those things?

457
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: You know? Like it?

458
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: You can, I guess from a legal standpoint, it's really

459
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: strange to think about the word natural because because literally

460
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: everything that we could ever have access to is in

461
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: some way natural.

462
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: It's all it's all derived from the same elements on

463
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: the same periodic table, you know what I mean?

464
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, Well, hey, let's let's give a quick example

465
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: bend of from that FDA website, just super fast. It's

466
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: at the very bottom of that page if you scroll

467
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: all the way down, they talk about this person hairy

468
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: m Hawxie who quote had no medical training, but he

469
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: made millions of dollars hawking they call it quack cancer

470
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 2: cures again to desperate patients for more than three decades, wow.

471
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: And he was selling them into the nineteen fifties. So

472
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: it's not like it was way way long ago. Maybe

473
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: your parents or your grandparents, you know, saw ads for

474
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 2: this stuff.

475
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: And you know what, Matt, to add to that, there

476
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: might be some of us listening this evening who have

477
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: a problem with the phrase quack doctors. He may feel

478
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: that we are being anti duck and we're here to

479
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: tell you that ducks are absolute pieces of shit, every

480
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: single one. That's the best they can do is be eaten.

481
00:32:54,680 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: They reproduce in a horrific, non consensual way. Ducks are terrible.

482
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 2: And they are delicious. So I guess you know, win win.

483
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: That was for Noel that the guy hates birds, So

484
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: we got a there's one bird we can all agree on.

485
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: It's just a terrible, terrible bird. So quack quack. These

486
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: people are selling. They're selling false hope, you know. And

487
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: this example that you mentioned here that is terrifying because

488
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: it's capitalizing on a lack of information and it's capitalizing

489
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: on a very human desire to not die.

490
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Well, and in Hawxy's case, it was an

491
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: herbal extract concoction of some sort, but it was labeled

492
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: as an herbal cancer treatment, you know, in that type.

493
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: And that's what we're talking about here. Just why it's

494
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 2: so dangerous because it sounds great and it's in what

495
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: appears to be a medicinal package. So let's at least

496
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: give it a try for a while, honey.

497
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: And there's nothing there's nothing wrong with herbal medicine, with

498
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: herbal supplements. You know, sometimes people with chronic conditions may

499
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: start taking some regimen of treatments and they will feel

500
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 1: better because their body is now getting access to stuff

501
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: their body needed anyway for its regularly scheduled programming. Right,

502
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: if you're human, you need vitamin C. And if you

503
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: don't have that, you eat vitamin C. You know, maybe

504
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: your cancer isn't God, but your teeth aren't loose in

505
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: your mouth anymore because you no longer have scurvy.

506
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 2: Oh man, score, But Ben, what happens if instead of

507
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 2: just herbal supplements, there's bad stuff in the treatment.

508
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: No, that's the thing. That's what the FDA is worried about.

509
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 1: I wish we were still a video show so everybody

510
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: could see Matt the way you the way you pose

511
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: this stuck.

512
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 2: And gave it a good scrip.

513
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: I mean, so the Yeah, this is the problem. This

514
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: is what the FDA is most immediately concerned about. This

515
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: is what most medical professionals are immediately concerned about. If

516
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: you take some Farfignugan blue sky placebo, then you may

517
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: experience the placebo effect, which is real, but not enough

518
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: of a not enough of a prime mover to save

519
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: you from something like lymphoma. Right. Placebo effect israel It

520
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: does have measurable efficacy. But if you're taking something that

521
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 1: does doesn't harm you, doesn't help you, that's a world

522
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: of difference from taking something that does include harmful ingredients.

523
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about this all the time. One

524
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: of the most successful dudes in all of Chinese history

525
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: died because he ate a ton of mercury, not literally

526
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: a ton, but like a lot of mercury for a

527
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: person to eat, which is any amount of mercury.

528
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he thought he was going to turn into

529
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: a cyborg. Right, Oh wait, no, it was it was

530
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: just it was thought to be good and part of

531
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 2: living a longer life, perhaps even attaining immortality.

532
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Spoiler, he's either still recovering or he is dead.

533
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: It's a longer recovery. Or people expose themselves to radiation.

534
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: For centuries, people have said, you know what your problem is.

535
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: You got too much blood.

536
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: Your humors are all off, Your.

537
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: Humors are all off. You're sad because you're melancholic. All right, anyway,

538
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: let's let's cut you open. Uh uh, blood's so weird anyway.

539
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 2: Oh wait, yeah, Ben, what about uh? What about poop?

540
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: Oh, poop? Yeah, poop's the new hot thing.

541
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 2: Well it was because it was again in the thought

542
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: for a long time there you need to let some

543
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: of the blood out, right to get your body back

544
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: into the right balance. Well maybe it's because all the

545
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 2: bad toxins and things are in your gut and in

546
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: your poop, or the bad stuff in your poop is

547
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 2: inside your body, so we need to get the poop out.

548
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: Your body, yes, and put some better poop inside. About

549
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: the poop transplants, it's a real thing.

550
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's a newer Back then, it was just

551
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: anima's right, They just it wass were like a cure.

552
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: Right. Uh, you know you seem depressed. Let's put some

553
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: yogurt up your butt, you know what I mean and

554
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: check back in shout out Kellogg. Yeah, absolutely right. Oh,

555
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 1: tobacco smoke they used as well. People were again working

556
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: with the information they had. Not all of them were rifters,

557
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: some of them sincerely believed in it. But the difference

558
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: between those folks and actual medical pioneers is that in

559
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: every single case, the actual medical pioneers created or discovered

560
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: things that are still used today. There's a there's a

561
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: reason you don't have a Nesta cobras at home, and

562
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,439
Speaker 1: you know you're not slapping them on your knee every

563
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: day or something like that.

564
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 2: Oh, very true.

565
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe someone is, yeah, maybe someone's listening

566
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: right now and they're you know, they're they're holding one

567
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: of their cobras and they're injecting the venom from the

568
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: cobra straight into their kneecap and they're going, these guys,

569
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: these guys don't get it.

570
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 2: Why is my knee turning all black and smells of almonds?

571
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: Right? So the issue is this applies to pets as well.

572
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: People also go for alternative care when they have a

573
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: pet that needs help, especially if you have an elderly pet,

574
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: and the veterinarian is saying there's nothing we can do,

575
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 1: or we can ease the pain, et cetera, et cetera,

576
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: et cetera, and he gets weirder and weirder and weirder.

577
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: You know, can water riddle me this, Matt. Can water

578
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: be better if someone meditates over it for a while?

579
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I know that's such.

580
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: A tough one, because I think by now we've all

581
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 2: seen the videos, see the report, or like a bunch

582
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: of reporting that was done on you. Remember the water.

583
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: I can't remember the fellow's name, but he spoke really sweetly,

584
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 2: said nice things to some water and put it in

585
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: his fridge, and then yelled and cursed at his other

586
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: water and put it in the fridge. And then the

587
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: stuff that he cursed at became diseased and horrible. But

588
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: the water that he complimented and was kind to was

589
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: pure as anything you could ever wish. You know, I

590
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: never was able to prove personally that that was fake,

591
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 2: but it certainly feels pretty fake. To me.

592
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean, we would have to do the

593
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: experiment ourselves, right, and also again to the excellent point

594
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 1: you made about the placebo effect. We have an episode

595
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: coming out soon called Our Vibes Real, and please listen

596
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: to it. It may be a rare positive experience on

597
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. But I think

598
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:10,439
Speaker 1: of Matt. I think of the idea here being that

599
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: if all other given variables are equal, then it's cool

600
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: to be good. Right, So it doesn't necessarily matter whether

601
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 1: the water hears you, or whether your plants hear you,

602
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. It matters to your mind, to

603
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: your cognitive internal mechanisms, that you are presenting what you

604
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: see as a positive aspect in the world.

605
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 2: Yes, no, you're right, And it matters if your flock

606
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 2: believes that you praying over the water somehow makes it

607
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: holy right, Yes.

608
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, nailed it home run. Yeah, oh man,

609
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: in another world we are very strange. Tell evangelists. It does.

610
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: But it also goes wrong. Right. Can electromagnetic treatments, for instance,

611
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: cure HIV. Can sexual congress with people who are virgins

612
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: cure sexually transmitted diseases? The answer is no, Yeah, it's

613
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 1: been propagated. It's quite dark. Back in the early two thousands,

614
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: former South African president Thabo Becke claimed that HIV did

615
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: not cause AIDS proposed a number of purported cures and

616
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 1: treatments for the condition. But also in many countries, for

617
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: some time, there was this belief that if you had HIV,

618
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: if you had contracted the virus, you would be able

619
00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: to somehow cleanse yourself of it by having intimate contact

620
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: with someone who had never had sexual contact before, and

621
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: it led to some unclean activities.

622
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah cheese, Uh, okay, I'm done. Good night, everybody. That's

623
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: so dark cheese.

624
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's terrible, but that's steak oil again. And

625
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: we see the real world damage this sort of stuff

626
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: can create. I mean, okay, people like to crack on

627
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: South Africa, right, people like to crack on other countries.

628
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: Imagine then, fellow conspiracy realist, imagine, if you will, your

629
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 1: president touting a fake cure for a serious, potentially deadly condition. Crazy.

630
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 2: Okay, which one are you talking about? Because I know

631
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: what was the stuff? It was, President Donald Trump. It

632
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: was right as the pandemic was hitting its height, and

633
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,879
Speaker 2: there was something it wasn't ivermectin. That was a whole

634
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 2: other thing.

635
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: Hydroxychloricquin that's what it was.

636
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 2: That's what it was.

637
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yes.

638
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,240
Speaker 2: Because it actually can do good, just not to cure

639
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: the COVID nineteen infection, right, Ben, Do you remember what

640
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 2: it was used for, like what the actual substance was

641
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 2: used for.

642
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, it's like you set up earlier in tonight's show,

643
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 1: this substance was also an anti malaria drug.

644
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So yeah, it can kill the malaria, right,

645
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 2: and maybe it can kill this one. And again, the

646
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: logic is there, right, the potential for something happening theoretically

647
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 2: is there. It's just malaria and this virus are very

648
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: different things.

649
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, that's absolutely true. And you know, we

650
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: got very dark here. We're talking about the importance of

651
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: recognizing these grifts, these conspiracies against the desperate Matt. I

652
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: suggest to you that we take a break for a

653
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, and then maybe we end with

654
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 1: some fun stuff, some quack medicine of yesteryear. Again, ducks

655
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: are horrible.

656
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: And we've returned and we're going to push this one

657
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: more time. You are not stupid. We are not stupid. Collectively,

658
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: humans are not stupid. We get scared sometimes, we get

659
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: a little desperate sometimes, and we'll do anything to help

660
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: ourselves and others many times. And that's that's really what

661
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 2: this whole episode of is about. That's what snake oil is about.

662
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: It's about searching for a solution. Give me something concrete

663
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 2: that I can either give to myself or somebody I love.

664
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: They can help the problem. And I guess that's why

665
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,959
Speaker 2: it's so scary. Again. People are so down to jump

666
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: on that fear you've got roiling around inside you so

667
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 2: that they can make a buck.

668
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 1: And sometimes people don't understand what they are selling. Let's take,

669
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,359
Speaker 1: for example, opium opium.

670
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 2: Let's not take opium, but let's talk about it.

671
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: Let's talk about opium. Opium so popular that when the

672
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: very prosperous Chinese government refuse to buy opium, the British

673
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: invaded not once, but twice, because that's all they had

674
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: to sell. People loved opium. McK mun's elixir of opium

675
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: was this thing mixed with alcohol, and it was promising

676
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:09,919
Speaker 1: that it would fix quote nervous irritability in adults and

677
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: children alike. Is your kid too vocal? Why not give

678
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: them make muns elixir of opium and make that gay

679
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 1: go to bed. Also, hey, what if you're not nervous

680
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 1: and irritable? What if you have rabies or tetanus? Make muns.

681
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: Elixir of opium will make you feel less bad about

682
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: it at least is.

683
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: Your rabies giving you nervous irritability? Are you experiencing? Oh

684
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 2: it's a hysteria, that age old problem of hysteria. The opium, apparently,

685
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: is your fix.

686
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: Opium is your fix for being a woman in society. Yep, right, okay, great,

687
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: And then we talked about blood. This one has some

688
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:05,879
Speaker 1: scientific validity as plasma transfers. There's a some quite fascinating

689
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: science and quite unethical science going on with the idea

690
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: of prolonging quality of life through certain types of blood transfusions.

691
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: But back in the late eighteen hundreds, people were consuming

692
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: non human blood in hopes of revitalizing their general well being.

693
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: And Matt, you and Paul and I were talking about

694
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: this when off air before we recorded. I know we're

695
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: running a little long, but we have to talk about

696
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: this ad right.

697
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, we do. I don't even know how

698
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 2: to begin with this thing. Is is it pronounced bovnine?

699
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: Is that how you would pronounce it?

700
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking bovnine.

701
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 2: Okay, but that sounds medicinal beovnine. Should we just should

702
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 2: we do the poem? Yeah?

703
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: Do the poem. The poem's epic can do like a

704
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: voice with a lot of gravitas, like real Ozmandia stuff.

705
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: Okay, let's see what I can do. Look on me

706
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: in my lassitude, reclining, my nerveless body, languid, pale and lean.

707
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 2: Now hold me up to where the light is shining,

708
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 2: and mark the magic power of Bovinine.

709
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: Sautiful.

710
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 2: So in this ad of how would you describe it?

711
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: Ben uh Matt, I.

712
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: Would say it's a lady reclining. She's by a window.

713
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: She's reclining. She has a nightstand or a table stand

714
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: by the side of her chair, and there are two

715
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: glasses by the side of the chair, and there's a

716
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: larger bottle and it is Bovanine or bovnine. And in

717
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: the first image her eyes are closed.

718
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 2: Oh yes, but if you hold it up to the light,

719
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 2: just as the poem suggests, you can see that her

720
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 2: eyes are in fact open. And there's a giant cow

721
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 2: in the back. And guess what it says? My life

722
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 2: was saved by bovanine and uh, what is it that's

723
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 2: in bova nine ben.

724
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: Oh it's uh, it's blood from cows and extract cattle.

725
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: Uh gunk, you know nine, not sperm that would be

726
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: too expensive. Uh, it's it's the blood and like extracts

727
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: and fats and stuff. Uh. And also if you were

728
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 1: walking around and you saw this at your local grocer,

729
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 1: you would probably see stuff like Alan's Cocaine tablets. Oh

730
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: of course, Yeah, the number one cure for.

731
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: Ah got some throat troubles cocaine.

732
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, I have a headache and fifty cents. There's

733
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 1: a solution here. It's Allan's cocaine tablets. This is pretty nuts.

734
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: We know that cocaine or CoA is still pretty popular

735
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: with human beings today, but now people are more aware

736
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: of the damaging effects that sort of substance can have.

737
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: Back in the day, they weren't. They were aware that

738
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: hay fever sucked, you know what I mean? So why

739
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: not tackle that one first?

740
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, and the FDA finally finally came along and said, hey, guys,

741
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: cocaine is out. But you know what was also popular

742
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 2: back in the cocaine hey days, a well thing called caffeine,

743
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 2: and it came in pill form and it was a

744
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 2: drug and upper just like cocaine was. But caffeine is

745
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 2: still very much in the free market. As he drinks

746
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: his Monster Energy drink and Cheer's coffee.

747
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm drinking. I always drink iced coffee out of

748
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 1: out of Mason jars apparently, but I guarantee it's one

749
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: hundred percent coffee. It doesn't contain arsenic because it's not

750
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: Fowler's solution nor Donovan's solution, both of which contained arsenic

751
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: purported to treat things like skin diseases, leukemia, malaria. Just

752
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,720
Speaker 1: drink this, you know, just chout out on this arsenic

753
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: bro dude.

754
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 2: It was. It was Fowler and Donovan's solution for an

755
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 2: unhappy romance.

756
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,720
Speaker 1: So lady Gay got they could have a bad romance.

757
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 2: And they're like, here, honey, take this solution. It's very final.

758
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, oh god.

759
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: Okay, but what about my old lace? Right? So this,

760
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: this example, I think arsenic in particular shows us more

761
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: about the human obsession with poison as antidote. It's cognative

762
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: jump you get it right? What is poisonous antidote?

763
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: Poisonous antidote is it's the same reason why during that

764
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen pandemic, you know, back in the day, one

765
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: of the solutions was to let the little kids go

766
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 2: hang out down by the what was it the chlorine

767
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 2: gas at some of the factories. Chlorine gas highly poisonous,

768
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: will will kill you if you're exposed to too much.

769
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 2: But parents would send their children to go hang out

770
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: in the chlorine gas because there were lower instances of

771
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 2: people catching flu in those clouds of chlorine gas, because

772
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: they did have benefits, right, But in the end, it's

773
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 2: just more poison.

774
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the issue. That's one hundred percent and it

775
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: it's a cognitive jump that dates back to the very

776
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: old concept of transitive property transitive magic. You know, you

777
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: can see it in the weirdest places all around cultures

778
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: across the human world. You know. For example, you might

779
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 1: hear someone say, oh, it's the hair of the dog, right,

780
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: the hair of the dog that bit you. Refers to

781
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,720
Speaker 1: somehow curing yourself of a symptom from a dog bite

782
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: by consuming some piece of or taking ownership of some

783
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 1: piece of the thing that attacked you. It's really weird, yeah,

784
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: and it's really common still. People just don't like to

785
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: use the word magic these days.

786
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't do that.

787
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also don't don't take.

788
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 2: Radium radium, you say, well, I hadn't thought of that yet.

789
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 2: Somebody had that idea, Ben, someone had.

790
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: That idea of Matt, and unfortunately they beat us to it. Uh.

791
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 1: Matt and I started podcasting because we worked really hard

792
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: on UH on our own snake oil panacea and in.

793
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 2: The microwave weapons didn't work.

794
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 1: Out, and the microwave weapons really really didn't didn't get

795
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: past the experimental phase. I should have never told you that. Uh.

796
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: And we found out that we have been scooped folks,

797
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist. Way before we were working together, some

798
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: boffins came up with something called Ratathor MM Ratathor.

799
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: It's a combination of r A two two six and

800
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 2: r A two two eight. It's radium. It's mostly water

801
00:55:58,160 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 2: with a few microcuries of.

802
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: Just to make it pop, right. Yeah, Yeah, it gives

803
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: you that glow. The label said. Ratathor is harmless in

804
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: every respect. It is a cure for the living dead,

805
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 1: and it is perpetual sunshine. Yeah, there's some escalation.

806
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 2: Cure for the living dead. Cures zombies.

807
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, I wish we had done that earlier

808
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: because that that could have got you and I out

809
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: of out of some previously hectic situations.

810
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: But seriously, yeah.

811
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: Anyway, uh spoiler, those statements prove to be untrue. There

812
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: are countless examples of this crap, and sadly they're more

813
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: on the way. Why is that? Why is there always

814
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: more snake oil?

815
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 2: Because there's there's still one hundred dollars bills in circulation.

816
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: Dude, yeah, I think you have most of them.

817
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, all I got all the one hundred dollars.

818
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 2: But I mean, that's really that's what it is. There's

819
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 2: some stuff that we humans have to deal with that

820
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 2: the smartest people on the planet haven't figured out how

821
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: to fix them. Like big, big, big problems, terrible horrible things.

822
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 2: We just haven't figured them out yet. But humans, given

823
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 2: enough time, we generally figure things out. That's kind of

824
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 2: what we do. That's what we're good at.

825
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: It's just.

826
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 2: Some stuff is really hard or elusive. Let's say again,

827
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 2: cure for cancer has been crazy elusive for humanity. But

828
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 2: there are strides as long as we throw you know,

829
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 2: really smart people at the problem, and lots of funding.

830
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: There's gonna be major, major cures for different types of cancer.

831
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 2: There will be, it's inevitable. It's just it takes time.

832
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: And until we have time to fix those things, somebody's

833
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 2: gonna offer you a solution. It's faster, right than it's

834
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 2: going to take to get the actual cure, and you're

835
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: probably desperate enough to pay for it.

836
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: Beautifully put. Yeah, and now we have to end this way.

837
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: How do you protect yourself from this snake oil, from

838
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: these false claims, from these predators conspiring against you in

839
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: a moment of vulnerability. Well, first, we need to treat

840
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: every medical claim with an enormous amount of skepticism. Secondly,

841
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: we need to look for corroborating evidence. Doesn't matter what

842
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: your particular ideological bent is. The reality is this, and

843
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 1: hopefully Matt Noell, Paul and Doc Holiday can cosign me

844
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 1: on this. The truth is world governments are run by apples,

845
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: but their science departments are run by nerds, and you

846
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: should kind of eat You should follow the nerds, you

847
00:58:58,840 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean?

848
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, the a holes are smelly, PU don't follow them.

849
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 2: But I love that sentiment.

850
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: Ben.

851
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 2: I want to throw to a quick thing that you

852
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 2: found in your research that I think just speaks to

853
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 2: this so well. It's from CNN, written by Kristin Rogers

854
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 2: in October of twenty twenty. The title is blood Letting

855
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 2: and gas fumes Quack Treatments of the nineteen eighteen Flu.

856
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 2: And they're talking there about doctors prescribing high doses of

857
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 2: aspirin to combat the Spanish flu outbreak at the time,

858
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: and because it was known to help with fever, right,

859
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 2: aspirin was a known thing that you could prescribe a

860
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 2: patient and it would help their fever. It was not

861
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 2: known that when you prescribed too much aspirin you could

862
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: potentially kill that patient because the aspirin is going to

863
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 2: be just as deadly as the flu and the sentence

864
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 2: that you're going to get from the flu, and sometimes

865
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 2: when they coincide, that's what's going to kill a patient. Well,

866
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 2: Kristen Rogers, who wrote this, consulted with Laura Spinney, who

867
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,959
Speaker 2: is an author. She wrote Pale Writer, The Spanish Flu

868
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 2: of nineteen eighteen and how it changed the world. And

869
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 2: there's this quote here that I just wanted to bring

870
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 2: up because I think it just speaks to this whole episode.

871
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 2: It's kind of what we've been saying the whole time.

872
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 2: But ultimately there's a couple keywords in here. Here's the

873
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 2: quote from Laura Spinney quote. Human beings in general need

874
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 2: to feel a sense of control over whatever is afflicting them.

875
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 2: That's just a perennial truth, and I think that in

876
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 2: the end it's everything right. We want to feel some

877
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 2: sense of control, especially when we're feeling desperate and afraid.

878
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: One hundred percent, and that is why these conspiracies persist. Unfortunately,

879
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 1: we know that you or someone you are close with

880
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: has encountered something like modern day snake oil, so we

881
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,919
Speaker 1: want to know what you think. We'd love to hear

882
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 1: examples of kakammy cures you've encountered in the wild, and

883
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 1: also for everyone who might be shouting into the void

884
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: as you're hearing this. Yes, we know big Pharma is corrupt. Yes,

885
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 1: we have done previous episodes on these things right on

886
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: the idea of repressed technology, including repressed technology in the

887
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: world of medicine. We always want to end these episodes

888
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: too with a shout out to our boy Semivice, the

889
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: doctor who said, hey, everybody wash your hands and got

890
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: thrown into an asylum.

891
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 2: Ye wash your hands before performing surgery and hands in

892
01:01:58,920 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 2: a human.

893
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: It wasn't even it wasn't even saying to everyone to

894
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: watch their heads. He's like, hey, before you put your

895
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: hands and people clean them.

896
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: Up, you think about it.

897
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: And they were like, throw this man in crazy jail anyway,

898
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 1: So we want to hear your thoughts, folks. Please let

899
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 1: us know examples of strange purported cures or snake oil

900
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: that you are seeing in the wild. You can find

901
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: us on Instagram where conspiracy Stuff show. We can find

902
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: us on YouTube we are conspiracy stuff. You can find

903
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 1: us on TikTok. You can find us, you know, in

904
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: the right sort of wija board vibe if you if

905
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: you feel like a wija board is an awkward way

906
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 1: to communicate, you can also just give us a phone call.

907
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I get the nearest burner wherever you

908
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 2: are and just dial one eight three three st d

909
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 2: w y t K. It is a voicemail system. You've

910
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 2: got three minute to leave a message when you call in.

911
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 2: Please give yourself a cool moniker and nickname, just not

912
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: your government name, and tell us if we can use

913
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air. If you got

914
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 2: more to say, they can fit in that single voicemail,

915
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 2: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

916
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

917
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

918
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

919
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.