WEBVTT - Reality Check: What TV's Guilty Pleasures Teach Us About Ourselves 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:08.119 Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever, 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.320 pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.640 and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty. 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:22.720 This is pretty smart. Hello. Okay, so we dropped two 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:27.120 episodes this week, one more serious and one more fun 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.840 and lighthearted. And on this choose your own adventure, you 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.839 chose the fun and lighthearted ones. So let's get into it. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.440 Today's episode is going to hit you right in your 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.280 pop culture loving heart. I promise it's a deep dive 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.479 into reality TV, but not just the drama or the 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.519 guilty pleasure of it. All the culture, the conversations, the 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:54.600 connections that these shows inspire. Joining us are two women 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:58.000 who have completely redefined the way we think about reality TV. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.040 Natasha Scott and Justin are the minds behind Two Black Girls, 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.360 One Rose. If you're not already familiar with their podcast, 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.920 let me catch you up. Natasha and Justine started out 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.800 as fans of the Bachelor franchise. They were drawn in 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.000 by Rachel Lindsay's groundbreaking season as the first black lead, 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.200 But instead of just recapping the episodes like so many 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.800 other shows did, they decided to get personal do something different. 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.679 They brought their own lived experiences as black women into 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.240 the conversation and they were offering a kind of commentary 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:35.600 that was missing from the mainstream. People were obsessed, and 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.720 over time their podcast has grown into something so much bigger. Yes, 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:45.160 it's about dissecting reality TV, but it's also about unpacking race, relationships, gender, 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.920 and society through the lens of pop culture. So whether 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:53.120 they're calling out casting choices, breaking down nuanced portrayals of love, 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:58.320 or fangirling over their favorite reality stars, Justine and Natasha 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.880 bring so much humor and intelligence and really a much 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.400 needed perspective to a genre that too often overlooks it. 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.840 So today you're gonna hear their love for shows like 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:13.080 Laguna Beach yep, Laguna. I promise they'll explain why, and 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.360 The Bachelor and how these shows and their love of 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.079 them has evolved into a full fledged community of listeners 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.040 who tune in for these thoughtful conversations. We're going to 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.400 talk about what reality shows get wrong and sometimes surprisingly 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.840 what they get right. We're also going to dive into 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.040 how these shows reflect who we are as a culture 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.160 and why so many of us can't stop watching, and 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.359 of course, the lessons they've learned from reality TV. There 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.560 are lessons to be learned. They taught me on love, 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:43.359 on friendship, and human nature. Natasha and Justine are sharp 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.480 and funny, and by the end of this conversation you'll 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.000 understand why their podcast has become a go to for 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.080 so many people looking for more than just surface level 0:02:52.080 --> 0:03:01.880 takes on pop culture. So let's get into it. Natasha, Justine, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.200 it all started on a beach, Laguna Beach, to be exact. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:09.040 The two of you ran in similar social circles, but 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.280 you didn't actually connect until you heard that the other 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:17.080 had a DVD copy of Laguna Beach and Justine, I 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:21.160 literally laughed out loud when I watched you in another interview, say, 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:23.480 is this really what white people are doing? 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:26.440 Listen? 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.919 Because we went to a private school, right, small all 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.240 girls private school, and so it was very segregated, so 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.280 I had no idea what. 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:35.560 The white girls at school were doing. 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.640 But I was like, you guys are drinking at your parents' house. 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.760 And Natasha, what was it for you? Why did you 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:42.640 like Laguna? 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:47.240 They just seemed to have this level of freedom. They 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.240 were also teenagers but were doing like adult things. There 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.800 never seemed to be adults around. It was like they 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.240 were just raising each other, like the blind leading the 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:58.360 blind among these teens and just living this life that 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.440 I could never have imagined living because my was on 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:00.920 my ass. 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.680 So it just looked so fun. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:07.200 It looked so idyllic. So you started with your love 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.880 for Laguna, but then it wasn't until The Bachelorette that 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:15.080 you really like started your pod. It's two black girls, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.480 one Rose, and you were both invested in Rachel Lindsay's season, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.280 which is exciting for me to talk about because she's 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.000 a friend of mine and she was the first black 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.000 lead on the show, which was huge and also a 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.040 lot of pressure on her. From what I understand from 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.520 your past interviews, it kind of fueled your search for 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.760 expanded content, and you were saying that the recap podcast 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.640 that existed just missed the mark because they were missing 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.680 the perspective of people of color entirely. 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.359 Yeah, it really felt like they were just watching a 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:48.159 different show than ours. I just feel like, you know, 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.400 we're watching this black woman look for love. We've never 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.480 seen this before. In the Bachelor's sphere. We're seeing more 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.919 black men than ever as well. On Bachelor, they had 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.720 a character character. They had a contest I can't remember 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.000 his will he had never dated a black woman. And 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.239 that was like a very quick convo that they had 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.160 between Rachel and Will, and they kind of just like 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.479 rushed over it. And then listening to recot podcasts, I 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:14.159 wanted to hear how they were going to talk about 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.040 this because me and Justine were up watching the show 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.040 and like, just what the hell why would they cast 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.320 this guy? Like why would they cast this guy for 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.039 Rachel specifically? Like just a weird missed opportunity to have 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:28.279 that conversation about him not really dating within his race, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.240 and so that like just little nuances like that were 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:34.720 just getting swept I'm gonna say swept under the road. 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.400 They just weren't even like seen by people recapping and 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:38.159 watching the show. 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.320 When I listened to your show, it strikes me as 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:50.600 an opportunity for white people to contextualize reality TV in 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.320 a different way. When did you guys realize that this 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.600 could be more than just a podcast but a platform 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.240 to challenge how people think about reality TV. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.279 Always made content for black women. It just happens to 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:05.880 be that we made it around a show that has 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:09.159 a mostly white audience. And we have a lot a 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.120 lot of white listeners, majority of white listeners. But I 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.560 think the biggest eye opening one for me was Matt 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:20.080 James the season. I remember even a coworker of mine 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.960 saying to me, I know what I'm watching is wrong, 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:23.920 but I don't know what. 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.000 Is wrong exactly like ooh, say more. 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.320 On Matt James' season, they had him do things that 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:36.520 were really really pretty offensive and pretty like stereotypical storytelling 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.520 for a black male lens and he was the first 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:44.040 black bachelor, and they had him meet his father, who 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.920 he hadn't spoken to in years, on camera and talk 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.800 about how he's been without him as a as a dad, 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.200 and how that has made him feel. That is not 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:57.560 a conversation, that's entertainment. That's a conversation to be had 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.000 behind closed doors. When Matt first came to the Mansion, 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.640 he said to the host at the time, Chris Harrison, 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.960 He's not gonna pick who America wants him to pick. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.160 Everybody took that a different way, like the was so 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:15.080 Ill explained that everybody took it differently and it turned 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.880 off a lot of people from watching the show. And 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.560 when it was all said and done, when Chris got 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.320 fired and they had a manual octa what they're hosting. 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.320 A lot of our listeners, I think wanted to know 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:29.520 what was wrong with what they were watching. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:31.360 Did you explain it right away? 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:33.760 Yeah, because we saw it right away. We spotted it 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:34.120 right away. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.280 I think there's nuances right when you're a woman, right, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:39.480 there's like nuances that you're looking for when you're a 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.800 black woman. There's nuances you're looking for when you're an 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.720 Asian woman. There's nuances. And to us, it's just so glaring. 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:45.800 So we pointed out everything. 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:46.480 I was just gonna add. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.239 Yeah, Matt James' season was like a really tough season 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.800 for us to recap because we really on our show 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.360 want to have fun, like we're two best friends watching 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:00.320 TV talking about it. Sure, real life things come that 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.160 we provide commentary for, but we really are trying to 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.320 like center joy and fun, and his season was it 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.800 was just really frustrating watching how this black man's journey 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.240 for love was going down, and so there was a 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.600 lot of I also even demands from our audience to 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.160 be like, can you please like break down what's going on? 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.600 And for me, that was really to your question when 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.440 it was in my face, like, oh, we're doing something 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.280 bigger here, Like there's more of people are coming to 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.120 us for almost like education in a way, which was 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:31.520 not what we signed up to do. 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:32.560 But now we're in it. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.160 Now we gotta somehow like battle with this and figure 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:35.520 it out. 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.600 Do these shows all make us feel like insiders, Like 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.360 what does it say about community and gossip and the 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.040 way that people are gathering in twenty twenty four? 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.960 Yeah, I think like Justina and I's friendship started around TV, right, 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.320 having fun, sitting with a friend, keeking about something we're 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.080 watching on TV. And I think what our community has 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:02.000 really taught me is just like how important one how 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.480 important community is, but like it doesn't take much to 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.720 rally around something and find commonality with others. 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:08.880 We have some. 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:14.040 Listeners you know that we've met where they they either 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.559 watch the show by themselves and they don't have anyone 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:20.079 to talk to, or they're you know, in medical school 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.319 and super isolated there, you know, so they find community 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.720 in our little hub where they can find some like 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.400 minded people that are also fanatics of whatever show we're watching. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.160 And that's been really really heartwarming for us. Like starting 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.440 this community is you know, the basis of it was 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:38.720 Justine and I and our community together and how we 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.520 were about to how we were able to expand that 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.120 to allow others in, particularly others who might not have 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:44.319 but Justine right. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.120 Yeah, I will say that I think women find community 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.760 in a lot of different spaces, and I think reality 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.840 TV is probably the most fun. Natasha says all the 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.199 time that when you watch reality TV, you can put 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.840 on the shoes of the person that you're watching and say, well, 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:00.559 I would do this, well I would that, well I 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.480 would do this, And I think with shows like Love 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.360 Is Blind that are so well produced, it's really easy 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.079 to say those things. And then there's other shows that 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.520 we love that we don't cover, right, like Couple's Therapy 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.679 on Showtime that has so much empathy for the people 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:20.800 who they are filming and the stories they are telling. 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.360 And with all of that, we can take that and 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.920 make that kind of like gossipy reality TV guilty pleasure. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.000 We can make it more of a kind of deeper 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.400 dive and discussion into what we're doing culturally, and as women, 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.800 that's a really that's something we really value. 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:42.280 You know, you mentioned editing. I think anybody who watches 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:47.679 reality TV shows constantly hears the participants say they were 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.320 edited a certain way, or it was editing, it was 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:54.679 the creative editing. You guys, when you talk about things 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:58.040 on your show, you don't believe that it's totally inauthentic. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.640 What percent is real and what pric do you think 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.880 is created by these producers and then edited? 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.000 I think it definitely depends on the show. Some shows 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:11.800 there's way more producer intervention, way more producer creating stories. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.320 I think The Bachelor's famous for that to heavily produced show. 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:20.640 But I think I mean the people are saying those 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:24.120 things out of their mouth, right. I mean on The Bachelor, 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.280 they do a little frank in editing as they say, 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.760 where they'll pake piece of word from this conventional this word, 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.440 and then they splice it together. But generally people are 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:37.160 saying exactly what they're saying. People are showing up exactly 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.200 as they're showing up. I think editing sometimes is when 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:44.960 they're not including much nuance or context or balancing out people. 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.640 You know, they're just going to show all her worst bits, 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.640 and you know that's not fair. She has her side too. 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.080 We're seeing that right now on Love is Blind. The 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:55.920 current season with Hannah. She's getting crucified on the internet 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.240 right now for being like a you know, a really 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.680 mean person, but we're only seeing one side to her. 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.640 But yeah, it's it's so easy to just say it's 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:06.720 the editing. The editing made me look like this, and 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.200 it's okay, yes, but did you not say that thing? 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.120 Like that's still came out of your mouth? Right. So 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.240 I don't know the percentage, but we treat the show 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.840 as if it's real, you know, because it is. 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:21.840 That we're seeing. 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.440 We're reacting exactly to what we're seeing on screen. Maybe 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.840 people are amplifying their behavior, maybe editing is amplifying situations, 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.439 but for the most part, what you're seeing is people's 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:33.880 behaviors as they are. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.600 My only pushback to that is I feel like social 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.319 media added a whole nother element here, like people go 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:46.119 and reality TV stars have gotten smarter because they have examples, 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.320 like there's been now years of reality TV. So they 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.559 go on these shows or even apply knowing their Instagram 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.600 followers are going to go up. And I think there's 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.600 this whole like money brand building play. 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.040 I think in order for you to actually be successful 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:06.439 post reality TV show, you still have to be authentic, interesting, 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:11.440 not even likable. But authenticity is the key. So if 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.800 you go on there and you're out there looking for 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.280 I just want to be on television. We all know 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.800 this happened last season on Love is Blind with Drama 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.560 with Trevor with a couple of these contestants where they 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.640 clearly just went on for television and had no backup 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.480 plan for how they were going to explain they had 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.000 a full girlfriend at home. Yeah, and that makes you 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.640 unlikable and that will not get you a brand deal 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.679 because you're not You're inauthentic, and so you can't actually 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:44.520 sell anything. And so I think crucifixions at reunions has 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.080 been the new tactic for a lot. 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:48.920 Of these producers and it's working. 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:49.640 I think. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.199 I mean, Love is Blind has filmed a year ahead. 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.719 But what do you mean crucifixions at reunions? 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.199 Like on Love is Blind reunions, they definitely did this 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:03.000 with Juram Sarah and last season where they all were 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.520 just looking for television and they rip them apart at 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:10.319 the reunion the hosts for doing that for coming on 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.559 for television and not like authentically falling in love, just 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.439 giving no authenticity at all during the season that was 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:18.920 really it's just something they can't really work with. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.840 So you've mentioned Love is Blind a few times. Both 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.960 of these I can tell you're probably watching right now. Also, 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.000 I feel like we started with The Bachelor, there's married 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.960 at First Sight Love is Blind. Like for every sort 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.200 of love reality show, there's like four or five different 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.320 spinoffs on random cable and streaming networks that I don't 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.840 even know the title love is there still the same 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.000 amount of intrigue, Like is there nuance in each show 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.560 or do you think some of these just fall away. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.960 Yeah, there's definitely a nuance to each of them. So 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:55.960 like Love is Blind, I mean season one was such 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.720 a huge success for them that regardless, people are just 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.680 going to tuning in. I think we're all still chasing 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.440 the hive that season one, and over the course of 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.840 the seven seasons they've had, I would say season four 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:08.840 was very good, Season six is very good. Like they've 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.080 had some great seasons, but I think everyone is still 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.680 locked in. Also because when Love is Blind is on, 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.800 it kind of just capitalizes social media conversation and you 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.360 want to be a part of the conversation. It's like 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.320 a severe sense of fomo. But then there's also like 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.200 the ninety day fiances, Like that's a whole world, that's 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.640 a whole different brand, right, that has a whole audience 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.640 behind it, ninety fiances on season like twenty five or 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.680 whatever it is. So there's like that messy good like dirty, 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.320 guilty pleasure dating shows like that. And then you know 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.840 you have like The Bachelor that's kind of just always 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.560 been around. It's very predictable. It's like you know exactly 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.560 what you're gonna get, and so there are little nuances 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.720 to each of them. I think what's been really interesting 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:53.960 is watching Love Island. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:54.720 Love Island. 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:59.200 This past season of US. Love Island was I think 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.240 the most successful season they had, and it did something 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.160 very similar that Love is Blind does every season, which 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:10.560 is capture the social media attention of everybody you want 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:11.760 to be in the conversation. 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.000 So I remember when I was growing up, I loved Survivor, 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.320 and to this day, I think Jeff Probes is just such. 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.160 He's like an incredible host. He's like so into the show. 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.920 He's an icon truly, Like people have no idea how 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:26.840 involved he is as a host. He helps write, he 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.400 helps produce, like he really gives a shit, he really 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:33.560 cares anyways. Jeff Probes aside. I remember there was a 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.560 cultural conversation about how because they were kind of on 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.120 the forefront of reality TV, and people were like, this 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:43.200 show has gone too far, there's no decency for human life. 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.120 And then here we are thirty something seasons later and 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.320 Survivors basically white noise like it is on the in 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.600 the background of these Yeah. Right, And so when I 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.200 think about these shows now, like where you're like married 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.640 at first like you just marry each other at the 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.760 altar and all this stuff, like, do you guys think 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:03.320 that any of these shows go too far? 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.840 I'm casting now, I was going to say casting, but 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.400 definitely with casting. I think like Married to First Sight, 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:12.080 that one in. 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.920 Particular has had some real duds on that show that 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.960 has caused a lot of unsafe moments for women on 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:22.400 the show. 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.280 I remember Married a First Site season twelve, iconic season, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.200 but they had somebody who was like expecting a child 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:33.560 with somebody else. He was emotionally manipulative, he was a narcissist. 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.840 We've sat on our show that in order for you 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.159 to get cast, we think that you should have references 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.119 like a job. So they should be able to call 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.639 your most recent exes and they should be able to 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:47.399 speak highly of you, and if they don't, then you 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:48.160 can't get on the show. 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.479 That's interesting because you want a positive environment, But does 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:52.439 it ruin the drama? 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:53.680 No? 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.800 If you especially if like a love is blind situation 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.560 where you're not seeing the person and then maybe you 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.400 see yours been you're like, oh, he's okay, I'll work 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:03.320 with it. And then you see that your second choice 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.160 and you're really attracted to him. That's still drama. 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.240 Yeah, you're right, that's still drama. 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:07.800 You know. 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.760 I've heard I don't know this to be true, so 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:11.960 I want to be really thoughtful about saying that. But 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.399 I have heard from two reality show producers of different 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.480 shows that to get cast on Real Housewives, they have 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.520 psychologists interview you and you have to be on the 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:24.840 narcissism spectrum. 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.879 That makes a lot of suns. That makes all the suns. 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.640 I guess it's like a one through six in psychology, 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:37.520 and you're like somewhere on the spectrum. Yeah wow, Yeah, 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.320 So I just I don't want to start sprinting rumors. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.359 That definitely trucks. Yeah, and Andy said it before he's. 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.000 Like heyes, we know, yeah, okay, that makes me feel 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.040 better about sharing what I heard. You know, I'm a journalist, 0:18:56.119 --> 0:19:03.040 so I can't be to gossip aspects of okay. In 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:08.000 terms of these shows that center around love, what couples 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.400 make it and what don't, are there any through lines 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:12.359 or similarities between the ones that make it? 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.080 Yeah, couples who kind of like Tristan Ryan, I guess 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.399 they had the privilege of happening before a world of 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.439 social media, so that helped a lot. I think social media, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.479 the gossip sites, the tmzs can definitely demolish a lot 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.400 of these relationships. A lot of these shows are they're 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.760 they're pressure cookers, right, you gotta get married in like 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.040 three weeks or run over the whole. I think the 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:39.280 couples that keep that pressure, keep that deadline in their head. 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.119 They know they're in a show, you know, they know 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.639 that that's like the end goal. But they also still 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:49.680 have some grounding in real life, which is I'm trying. 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.159 It's hard to find the through line, but what this 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.240 season of love is mind. For instance, there's a couple 0:19:55.359 --> 0:20:00.520 Tailor and Garrett we just finished another recording, both agreeing 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.080 that They're one of the most emotionally intelligent couples we've 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.840 seen in a long time on the shows. Wow, they 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:10.000 were so yeah, they were very aware that this whole 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.600 process and this whole thing is like bullshit. Let's like 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.000 forget about this for a little bit. Let's just lock 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:17.960 in and just make sure that this makes sense for 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:20.600 us and check in every single step of the way. 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.440 I think couples where you kind of see some of 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.320 that little light bulb go off in their conversations with 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.080 each other, or there's an acknowledgement of this being fake. 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.080 This whole environment is not real. We are real people. 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:34.920 Let's lock in. 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:37.680 I think that's where you kind of see maybe a 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.600 pattern of success among those couples. I will say too, 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:44.280 those couples keep it the same way on social media. 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.040 I think so too right, you. 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.600 Won't see every element of them as a couple. Like 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:52.960 even Lauren and Cameron. We've been falling in love with 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:54.879 Lauren Cameron. Oh my god, I love Lauren cam for 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.520 how many years? And they just now, like this week, 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.399 spoke about their fertility journey. That was something that was 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:03.680 off limits for them, that nobody was going to talk 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.280 about because it was private and couples who can kind 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:08.960 of take parts of their identity. 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.640 And do that. So there was a moment in time 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:13.720