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Speaker 1: Lessons from the world's top professors anytime, any place, world

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Speaker 1: history examined and science explained. This is one day university Welcome.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to half hour history Secrets of the Medieval World.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host and resident history nerd Mike Coscarelli. Remember

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Speaker 1: when we talked about the Renaissance a few episodes back.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's more to the story, including a spiritual awakening,

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Speaker 2: the birth of the scholastic method, and a serious challenge

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Speaker 2: to the Church's power.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot, but Chris, as you covered.

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Speaker 3: The twelfth century from eleven hundred to about twelve hundred

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Speaker 3: used to be the baby brother in medieval history courses.

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Speaker 3: Everyone used to call the next century, the thirteenth century,

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Speaker 3: the greatest of centuries. But the research that's really been

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Speaker 3: cutting edge in the last twenty or thirty years in

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Speaker 3: the study of medieval history has been focusing increasingly on

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Speaker 3: the twelfth century the eleven hundreds, and it's a very

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Speaker 3: exciting period of time, I think, particularly because having now

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Speaker 3: spent two topics on really high end top history, can

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Speaker 3: we even call it top down history? Because we never

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Speaker 3: really descended from the top, did we really looking at

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Speaker 3: the twelfth century Renaissance as something that was operative all

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Speaker 3: throughout medieval society, church and state, using that artificial distinction

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Speaker 3: bottom up, top down, left to right, and right to left.

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Speaker 3: And so it's very important that even though we're talking

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Speaker 3: about an in intellectual revolution, and yes, we'll be talking

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Speaker 3: about universities in a little while, and universities are for

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Speaker 3: an elite at that time. Nevertheless, what fueled this notion

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Speaker 3: of intellectual recovery is a spiritual awakening as well, and

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Speaker 3: I want to start with the spiritual awakening. So fundamentally,

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Speaker 3: when we're talking about the twelfth century Renaissance, we're talking

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Speaker 3: about something called scholastic humanism. Yew, let me note that

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking about scolasticism. How many angels danced on

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Speaker 3: the head of a pin? Guess what? Nobody ever asked

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Speaker 3: that question. We can't find it anywhere, and everybody's been

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Speaker 3: looking for it for hundreds of years. No Way, what

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Speaker 3: we're doing is scholastic humanism. At the end of the

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Speaker 3: Middle Ages, yes, people got very involved in this expression

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Speaker 3: the forest and the trees. People got very involved in

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Speaker 3: the roots and the leaves. But in this period of time,

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Speaker 3: in the eleven hundreds, people are kind of woken up

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Speaker 3: that those dimmer centuries have kind of passed us. There's

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Speaker 3: been an ebb, and now there's a flow. And what

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Speaker 3: people are really getting excited about is the relationship between

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Speaker 3: divinity and humanity. But not in a way that puts

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Speaker 3: divinity up there untouchable and humanity down here bad stained

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Speaker 3: tainted by sin.

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Speaker 4: No way.

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Speaker 3: Scholastic humanism is about the recognition that within human beings

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Speaker 3: there is the divine. And in fact, this takes us

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Speaker 3: all the way back to Greek philosophy with Socrates, Know Thyself,

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Speaker 3: with all sorts of spiritual masters throughout world history, throughout

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Speaker 3: world religions. By the way, if you want to find God,

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Speaker 3: be quiet and look within. You can find this from

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Speaker 3: the Buddha to meister Eckart. And that's what's going on.

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Speaker 3: And the fuel for this is the love and acceptance

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Speaker 3: and reverence of the broken body of Jesus. Now there's

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Speaker 3: a theological point to be made that way. Back in

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Speaker 3: the two and the three hundreds, there was a heresy

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Speaker 3: called arianism, and arianism at the very end of the

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Speaker 3: two hundreds of the early three hundreds believed that Jesus

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Speaker 3: was not quite divine Jesus was like Superman. He was

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Speaker 3: the most human of all humans, and he approached divinity,

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Speaker 3: but he wasn't quite divine.

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Speaker 4: And so the Church to fight back.

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Speaker 3: I canographically remember, in an illiterate society, what I see

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Speaker 3: is what I know had the very foreboding Jesus. The

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Speaker 3: Jesus seated almost stern, doing what God does, separating the

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Speaker 3: wheat from the chaff and the sheep from the goats.

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Speaker 4: But now that.

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Speaker 3: Arianism has died a slow death but is now gone,

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Speaker 3: we can become more familiar with this Jesus who's like

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Speaker 3: me in the Gospels. I think most people when they

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Speaker 3: go to church or a synagogue or a mosque, they

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Speaker 3: can't identify with these great patriarchs doing all sorts of fabulous,

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Speaker 3: incredible things. They can identify with Jesus when he cries,

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Speaker 3: when Mary, when she's probably sitting there saying, how am

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Speaker 3: I going to explain that I'm pregnant to my fiance

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Speaker 3: and to my parents, they can identify with the human

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Speaker 3: aspects there. And we call this an evangelical awakening. Now,

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Speaker 3: don't put evangelical in the box that it's become in

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Speaker 3: the United States with you know, televangelists and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the Evangelus,

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Speaker 3: the Gospel, the real close encounter with the Jesus of

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Speaker 3: the gospels, who swept, who cried, who worked, who got

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Speaker 3: blisters on his hands, who walked all over the place,

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Speaker 3: who got angry, who got frustrated with his friends. People

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Speaker 3: just love this, and what they want to do is

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Speaker 3: they want to identify with this kind of creator of God.

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Speaker 3: And the phrases that we see now are day use fabar,

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Speaker 3: God the maker, God, the creator of the universe. If

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Speaker 3: God created the universe, then the universe is something good.

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Speaker 3: And therefore, if God created human beings, human beings create things,

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Speaker 3: remember guilds, remember the Gothic landscape. Then when human beings

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Speaker 3: create things, they're good. And the phrase we see is

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Speaker 3: homo fabear, and homo doesn't mean male, it means human

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Speaker 3: kind or homo artifacts human beings as artisans. So you

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Speaker 3: can see the attraction of the suffering Jesus and the

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Speaker 3: human marry. And so people want to live what's called

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Speaker 3: a vita apostolica and apostolic life. They want to get

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Speaker 3: up off their knees and they want to get into

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Speaker 3: the world, and they want to do what Jesus did.

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Speaker 3: That's very different than the contemptous mundi of the monks.

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Speaker 3: Not that the monks, you know, didn't give a damn

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Speaker 3: about the world, absolutely not. They were trying to make

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Speaker 3: the world better by making themselves better, one person at

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Speaker 3: a time through this great humility. But they did do

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Speaker 3: that in an atmosphere that was divorced from the world,

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Speaker 3: which made some sense because the world in the five, six,

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Speaker 3: seven hundreds is a dangerous place. And so this apostolic

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Speaker 3: life really becomes under into fruition with this person called

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Speaker 3: Francis of Assisi, who's known as an altair Christus, another

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Speaker 3: Christ who at one point in his life received what's

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Speaker 3: called the stigmata, the marks of Jesus from the crucifixion

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Speaker 3: on his feet, on his hands, and in his side

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Speaker 3: with flowing blood. And so Francis really becomes this kind

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Speaker 3: of thing. Now, Francis never said the phrase that is

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Speaker 3: attributed to him. Well, maybe he said it. We can't

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Speaker 3: find it. Preach the gospel, use words if you must.

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Speaker 3: But that's really what the Vita Apostolica and this humanism

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Speaker 3: and this evangelical awakening are all about so that the

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Speaker 3: simple butcher, baker and candlestick maker, the illiterate mother can

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Speaker 3: be like Mary and Jesus.

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Speaker 4: Now that's the fuel.

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Speaker 3: Now at the top of this is the universities where

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Speaker 3: elites take place.

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Speaker 4: This is part of scholastic humanism.

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Speaker 3: So people start asking these questions, and some people pursue answers,

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Speaker 3: baking bread and feeding the poor next door and taking

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Speaker 3: care of the little old lady down the block. And

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Speaker 3: other people begin to say, well, let's God gave me

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Speaker 3: a brain. Let me figure out as much as possible

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Speaker 3: as I can about God. And so universities become the

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Speaker 3: place of these guilds of learning, and so scholastic theology

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Speaker 3: moves from the monastic scriptoria, which was a bit conservative

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Speaker 3: and not aggressive and accepting of authority and not asking questions,

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Speaker 3: to the urban setting. The cathedral schools and universities feed

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Speaker 3: the need for an educated elite to staff church and

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Speaker 3: secular courts. And they do this in a big way

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Speaker 3: by recovering Greek philosophy from the Muslims and the Jews

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Speaker 3: in Spain and Italy. The Muslims had never lost contact

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Speaker 3: with Greek language, and they had translated things into Arabic

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Speaker 3: and other things into Latin. And some key people remember

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Speaker 3: that Spain is this place where these religions are all

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Speaker 3: coming together, so we should not be surprised to find

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Speaker 3: it to be an intellectual center with some famous names. Avicenna, Averroes.

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Speaker 3: Averroes translated Aristotle from Greek into Arabic, and from Arabic

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Speaker 3: we got it into Latin.

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Speaker 4: And that is.

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Speaker 3: Where Thomas Aquinas in the thirteenth century got his encounter

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Speaker 3: with Aristotle, which revolutionized Christian theology. From the twelfth century

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Speaker 3: from a Muslim or Moses Mimonodes also in the twelfth century,

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Speaker 3: the great Jewish theologian and commentator on scripture, who gave

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Speaker 3: these allegorical interpretations a very miliar passages from scripture and

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Speaker 3: applied them to current events, interpreted them for the audience

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Speaker 3: in front of him. And this is what's called mid rush,

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Speaker 3: which has a very long history as well. And so

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Speaker 3: what is scholastic humanism trying to do. It's trying to

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Speaker 3: marry marry faith and reason. And we live in a

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Speaker 3: world's post enlightenment where we try to separate faith and reason.

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Speaker 3: You know, why would anyone with a PhD. Or an

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Speaker 3: MD believe in God. You know what, are you a moron?

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Speaker 3: When did you check your brain at the door. That's

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Speaker 3: a caricature fidees at ratzio, Faith and reason. The characteristics

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Speaker 3: of this pursuit is to put reason at the service

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Speaker 3: of faith and faith at the service of reason.

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Speaker 4: And so it's aggressive.

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Speaker 3: Yes, let's ask questions, let's ask questions, but the goal

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Speaker 3: is also that it's very systematic.

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Speaker 4: Now you could see.

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Speaker 3: Where the more you talk about love, let's say, the

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Speaker 3: further you get from love. The more you talk about God,

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Speaker 3: the further you get from God, because you get into

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Speaker 3: all of these topics and subtopics and head and what

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Speaker 3: do you mean by that word? And what do you

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Speaker 3: mean by this word? And is there a Greek version

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Speaker 3: of the Latin word? What about a French version? And

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Speaker 3: you could see how that could evolve into scholasticism, but

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Speaker 3: that's several centuries away. The key person here is a

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Speaker 3: fellow named Abalard. Yes, that Abalard. Abalard who had an

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Speaker 3: affair with Eloise, who ended up castrated by Eloise's uncle

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Speaker 3: and they have a child. Before that happens, that Abalard.

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Speaker 3: But before we get you know, to the soap opera

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Speaker 3: version of it. Let's talk about Abalard, the scholastic theologian

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Speaker 3: who writes a book with the great title yes and

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Speaker 3: No in.

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Speaker 4: Latin sic et none.

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Speaker 3: He says, I read back into history, I read interpretations

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Speaker 3: of scripture, I read canon law, I look at cases,

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Speaker 3: and if I read these books, it's I say yeah.

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Speaker 4: But if I read those books, I say no.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like the last ten minutes of any

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Speaker 3: criminal show that you've seen on TV, where one lawyer

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Speaker 3: sums up before the jury and you agree with the person,

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Speaker 3: and then they have the commerce'll break and come back.

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Speaker 3: The other lawyer sums up and you say, well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm really glad I'm not on that jury because I'd

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Speaker 3: have to decide.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's Abalarde's job, Abilige Jodge is to decide.

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Speaker 3: And he says there's nothing wrong with asking questions by doubting.

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Speaker 3: He says, we come to inquiry. Through inquiry, we gain truth.

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Speaker 3: Let me repeat that, by doubting, we come to inquiry,

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Speaker 3: through inquiry, we gain truth. And so Abillard is fully

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Speaker 3: living this scholastic humanism, so much so that his talk

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Speaker 3: of love is so abstract that it must be incarnated

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Speaker 3: in his love with eloise, which was you know, is

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Speaker 3: often used as almost this porno routine, and it's not.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you look at their letters, this is

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Speaker 3: this was an intellectual relationship.

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Speaker 4: This was a relationship of love and respect. So what

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Speaker 4: do these universities do? They system ties the way we

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Speaker 4: look at questions.

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Speaker 3: Have you ever walked in a room and the room

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Speaker 3: is a mess and you say to yourself, I don't

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Speaker 3: know where to begin, I just don't know where to start. Well,

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Speaker 3: that's kind of what the scholastic method was trying to do.

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Speaker 3: Where do we start? Do we take the stuff from

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Speaker 3: the front of the room, from the back of the room,

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Speaker 3: from the top, from the bottom, stuff that we can

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Speaker 3: throw out, stuff that we can keep, this kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: And the scholastic method is to take a question and

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Speaker 3: pursue an answer.

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Speaker 4: Through five steps. And I'm going to give you the

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Speaker 4: Latin in the English.

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Speaker 3: The first step is the question, the question. I tell

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Speaker 3: my students all the time that I can serve them

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Speaker 3: best by teaching them to ask a question. When your

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Speaker 3: children come home, the worst thing you can say to

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Speaker 3: them is what did you learn today? It's far better

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Speaker 3: to say to them, did you ask a good question today,

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Speaker 3: because if you learn how to ask a question, the.

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Speaker 4: Rest will follow.

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Speaker 3: And in Latin that's outram So I'll say, whether angels

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Speaker 3: have bodies? Arguments against the Latin is vda quote none. Oh,

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Speaker 3: it seems not no, they don't have bodies. On the

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Speaker 3: other hand, arguments for said contrast. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 3: here are all of these authorities that say, yes, they

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Speaker 3: do have bodies. And I respond race bondeo what's called

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Speaker 3: a determination or a determinazio, that they don't have bodies.

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Speaker 3: And then you go back to the other argument, and

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Speaker 3: you say, well, if you say this, my answer to

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Speaker 3: odd premium to the first point is that if you

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Speaker 3: say odd sekan sekent gundum, my answer to the second point.

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Speaker 4: Is that and on and on and on.

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Speaker 3: So what we have in this period in the twelfth

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Speaker 3: century beginning and going into the thirteenth century is basically

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Speaker 3: a new shelf of books in the library, new genres

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Speaker 3: which reach back a little bit to Greek philosophy, but

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Speaker 3: they didn't quite have the genres in this way. One

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Speaker 3: is a questiono is the pursuit of a particular question.

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Speaker 3: The other is a suma, which is the collection of

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Speaker 3: all topics together, and the suma of the Sumas is

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Speaker 3: Thomas Aquinas's Suma Teologgier where he breaks everything down, all

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Speaker 3: the questions, all the headings, and all the subheadings, and

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Speaker 3: they're often put in like textbooks. Right, marriage questions, relationship questions,

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Speaker 3: ord nation questions, sacramental questions, civil questions, towards questions, litigation questions.

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Speaker 3: And then at quod le beet these are my favorites.

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Speaker 3: This would be the op ed piece of the Middle Ages.

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Speaker 3: A quad libetan means what have you? So? What's going

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Speaker 3: on in this particular topic? And if the people in

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Speaker 3: the Middle Ages could blog, they'd be writing quote libets,

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Speaker 3: little short essays on particular topics. Well, when you start

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Speaker 3: asking hard questions about what Christianity teaches, you come up

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Speaker 3: against examples that don't match the way things should be.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's the problem.

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Speaker 3: Remember the question about secular authority and moral authority and

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Speaker 3: political power, particularly within the church. And what happens are

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Speaker 3: some people who are labeled as outsiders, labeled as heretics,

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Speaker 3: who certainly do not see themselves as heretics, begin to

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Speaker 3: question the church. And this is not some separate topic.

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Speaker 3: It is part and parcel of the twelfth century Renaissance

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Speaker 3: of the evangelical Awakening. Because these people are going back

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Speaker 3: to the gospel, they find this poor carpenter from Nazareth.

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Speaker 3: They look around the church as it exists, and they say,

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Speaker 3: there's a disconnect here.

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Speaker 1: After the break, a couple popes go on the defense

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Speaker 1: when the church's core beliefs are under attack. Plus Chris

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Speaker 1: explains the brutality of the Spanish Inquisition.

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Speaker 3: Peter Waldo is the name sometimes Pierre Valdez in a

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Speaker 3: French translation. Is a man who was, you know, like

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Speaker 3: Francis of ASSISI, you know, like Augustin of Hippo, living

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Speaker 3: a nice life, making some money, you know, had a

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Speaker 3: family and things are great. And he has a conversion

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Speaker 3: experience where he says, is this all there is? There's

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Speaker 3: got to be more to this, and my life is

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Speaker 3: not matching this gospel life that I'm hearing when I

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Speaker 3: go to church. And he puts together a group of

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Speaker 3: people who follow him.

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Speaker 4: Now it just kind of happens.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't, you know, form an organizational statement and write

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Speaker 3: a business plan. And these groups start to spread all

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Speaker 3: over and primarily they're in Leol and Lombardy, Okay, So

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Speaker 3: they're in France and they're in northern Italy, and they

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Speaker 3: believe radically in the evangelical life, meaning the life as

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Speaker 3: Jesus and his disciples and the women are around him,

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Speaker 3: including Mary lived in the Gospels, a life of abject poverty,

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Speaker 3: of simplicity, of utter service. And when he measures that

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Speaker 3: against what he sees, it causes him to reject the

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Speaker 3: sacramental system. Why do I have to pay for sacraments?

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Speaker 3: Why is there so much pay involved in getting to heaven?

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Speaker 3: I see people doing all of these pious practices or

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Speaker 3: paying for the good that'll come from those pious practices.

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to go open a soup kitchen that

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Speaker 3: to me is real. Well you can see how this

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Speaker 3: would be seen as a challenge to the institution, But

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Speaker 3: those Waldensians tended to be kind of a blue collar,

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Speaker 3: low end bottom up at the bottom of the social scale.

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Speaker 4: Group.

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Speaker 3: There's another group that also critiques the church, but it

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Speaker 3: does it in a highly intellectual fashion, and these are

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Speaker 3: the Albigensians. Now, the Albigensians are so called because they

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Speaker 3: were centered around to town in France.

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Speaker 4: Called I'll be Albi.

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Speaker 3: But they harkened back to an earlier tradition of heresy

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Speaker 3: in the Church, known as the Cathars, or the Bogomiles sometimes.

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Speaker 4: Or the Duellists.

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Speaker 3: They're very well educated, they in fact come out of

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Speaker 3: the university system, and they ask a very classic question.

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Speaker 3: We've all asked this, right, Why do bad things happen

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Speaker 3: to good people?

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Speaker 4: Why is there evil in the world?

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Speaker 3: If God is good and what God creates is good,

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Speaker 3: how can there be evil in the world. And the

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Speaker 3: answer that they come up with, an ancient answer, is

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Speaker 3: there must be two gods. There must be a God

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Speaker 3: who created the spiritual world and a God who created

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Speaker 3: the material world. And the God who created the material

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Speaker 3: world fought with the God who created the spiritual world,

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Speaker 3: echoes of Lucifer being thrown from heaven, and therefore matter

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Speaker 3: things stuff including bread and wine, including water for baptism

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Speaker 3: and oil for anointing, including my body, must be evil.

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Speaker 3: And so therefore the way toward purity is to reject

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Speaker 3: as much of materialism as you can possibly imagine. So

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Speaker 3: they were not just vegetarians. They were vegans, we would say,

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Speaker 3: because they were trying to avoid eating flesh. Even though

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Speaker 3: water and fruit or matter they do have to eat

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Speaker 3: to survive. It was a very large church. There were

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Speaker 3: tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands. There are some

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Speaker 3: estimates that say all of southern France was more Albigensian

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Speaker 3: than it was Christian, and they had basically a parallel church.

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Speaker 3: Now it was not a parallel church structure in the

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Speaker 3: way that Catholicism was, because they want to reject these

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Speaker 3: Christian structures, these Christian symbols, things like chasubles and gloves

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Speaker 3: and rings and vessels and chalices, church buildings. They want

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Speaker 3: to reject all of that. Nevertheless, they did have organization

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Speaker 3: of three groups. I'll give you their Latin names and

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Speaker 3: their English equivalents, the Perfecti, the Credentes, and the Audi Torres.

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Speaker 3: The Perfecti the perfect ones, the elites, the ones who

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Speaker 3: as much as possible could live a life of radical purity,

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Speaker 3: not having sexual intercourse, not eating any meat, living as

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Speaker 3: simply as.

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Speaker 4: Possible, serving as much as possible.

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Speaker 3: The Credentes the believers who bought into it but married,

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Speaker 3: lived in the world, had careers. And the Audi Torres

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Speaker 3: what people call catechumens.

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Speaker 4: You know, I'm interested in that.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to listen, I'm going to be a hearer,

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Speaker 3: and I'm going to see whether or not this fits

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Speaker 3: me and whether or not I should join.

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Speaker 4: Now, what were the church reactions to this?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, apart from the obvious, right, the church

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Speaker 3: is not going to countenance this kind of attack on

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Speaker 3: its core beliefs and on its structures. The church is

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Speaker 3: going to say, yes, I understand, you're going to go

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Speaker 3: back to the gospel, but the church lives in place

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Speaker 3: and time, and the church must be allowed to develop. Okay,

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Speaker 3: maybe we developed too much, maybe we went overboard, but

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Speaker 3: let's kind of clean the church up as it is.

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Speaker 3: What you want to do is get rid of the

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Speaker 3: church as it exists now, and that we cannot countenance.

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Speaker 3: So originally, whenever you have heresy, the deal was that

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Speaker 3: the local bishop is the one who would be in

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Speaker 3: charge of cleaning things up. Well, the local bishop is

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Speaker 3: one of the biggest targets, especially of the Albigensians and

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Speaker 3: the Waldensians, and so the local bishop probably is not

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Speaker 3: going to be the best person to fight back, particularly

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Speaker 3: if he is not as well.

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Speaker 4: Educated as they are.

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Speaker 3: And so a couple of popes won by the name

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Speaker 3: of Innocent the Third in eleven ninety nine, you remember

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Speaker 3: Innocent and another Gregory named Gregory the ninth and twelve

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Speaker 3: thirty one. Really want to make clear to people how

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Speaker 3: dangerous heresy is. Heresy, they say in two church documents,

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Speaker 3: is a crime against the Church's body. Now remember that

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Speaker 3: the church's body in Christian theology is the mystical body

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Speaker 3: of Christ. They basically call it treason against the community.

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Speaker 3: And the bishops, they say, are doing a lousy job,

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Speaker 3: and so they remove some bishops, they put some other

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Speaker 3: tougher bishops in there. The bishops are still not doing

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Speaker 3: a good job. So what they do is they give

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Speaker 3: the tasks to the Dominicans. Remember I said, Francis of

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Speaker 3: a CC before the alta Christus who radically lived the

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Speaker 3: life of Christ. And then there was another friar. We

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Speaker 3: call these people friars, not monks, because the friars were out.

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Speaker 3: You know, where was Francis in the ghetto. Why was

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Speaker 3: Francis in the ghettos because that's where the poor people were.

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Speaker 3: And Dominic was also living a radical life, of an

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Speaker 3: apostolic life. But whereas Francis, you know, didn't worry about education.

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Speaker 4: That was what Dominic was all about.

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Speaker 3: Dominic believe we can use our intellects to the tenth degree.

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Speaker 3: Not that Francis said we couldn't, but it wasn't his interest.

401
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Speaker 3: Dominic said, we can use our brains to the tenth

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Speaker 3: degree to fight these Albagensians where they are, because if

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Speaker 3: they're very well educated, then we're very well educated. And

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00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: the Dominicans are a very clerical, university based order. And

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Speaker 3: when the Dominicans come to town, these procedures are You're

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Speaker 3: given many chances to prove your orthodoxy, but there are

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Speaker 3: there's little in the procedures that we would call due

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Speaker 3: process in any modern sense. Now, okay, let's talk about

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Speaker 3: the Spanish Inquisition for a moment, because, let's face it,

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Speaker 3: we have to do what's what people think about. And

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Speaker 3: some of you may remember a movie by mel Brooks

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Speaker 3: where he has the kind of an inquisition dance. The

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Speaker 3: Spanish Inquisition actually comes late in our period, even though

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Speaker 3: what Innocent and Gregory set up in eleven ninety nine

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Speaker 3: and twelve thirty one are inquisitorial procedures. Basically the goal

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Speaker 3: of those procedures is to get people to say, Hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm in a stake.

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Speaker 4: And I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: Whereas the Spanish inquisition is much more aggressive. It's mostly

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Speaker 3: a secular activity, and some apologists try to say, no,

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Speaker 3: it wasn't a church activity.

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Speaker 4: Of course, it was a church activity.

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Speaker 3: It was secular structures, but the people who staffed it

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Speaker 3: were church people. And the context is back to Ferdinand

425
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Speaker 3: and Isabella fourteen seventies, eighties nineties, wrapping up the reconquest,

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Speaker 3: and there was a real concern that Jews in Spain

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Speaker 3: called Conversos or Moranos and Muslims referred to as Mariscos

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Speaker 3: were suspected of false conversions. So they had been they

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Speaker 3: converted so that they wouldn't be killed. But were they

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Speaker 3: really converted was the question? Or mystics, the Alambrados, the

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Speaker 3: illuminated ones, and this would be John of the Cross,

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Speaker 3: Teresa Avula, Ignatius of Loyola, and others. And here there

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Speaker 3: was a much greater use of torture and the death penalty,

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Speaker 3: especially under the evil character of history, the Dominican Thomasti Torquemada.

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Speaker 3: This all leads to that very place, into that kind

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Speaker 3: of repressive dark Gauge's myth. But we must remember that

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Speaker 3: all of this is actually part of this great twelfth

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Speaker 3: century Renaissance called the Spiritual Awakening.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to another episode of Half Hour History

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Speaker 1: Secrets of the Medieval World. In our next episode, get

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Speaker 1: Ready for Knights and Shining Armor. Half Hour History Secrets

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Speaker 1: of the Medieval World from One Day University is a

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Podcasts and School of Humans. If you're

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Speaker 1: enjoying the show, leave a review in your favorite podcast app,

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Speaker 1: and check out the Curiosity Audio Network for podcasts covering history,

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Speaker 1: pop culture, true crime, and more.

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Speaker 4: School of Humans