Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is a special episode of
Speaker 1: You and Me Both. September eleven has come to be
Speaker 1: about a lot of things over the years, counter terrorism, war,
Speaker 1: economic and physical recovery, and of course remembering. But for me,
Speaker 1: the anniversary is always first and foremost about the victims, survivors,
Speaker 1: first responders, and their families. It's about the people who
Speaker 1: lived through this devastating tragedy, the pain, loss, health challenges,
Speaker 1: and emotional trauma they've experienced, but also the remarkable strength
Speaker 1: and resilience they've displayed. As a Senator for New York
Speaker 1: on that day and in the aftermath, I joined in
Speaker 1: witnessing the devastation at the World Trade Center in New York,
Speaker 1: at the Pentagon in our nation's capital, and at Shanksville, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: and I was deeply involved in the response and recovery
Speaker 1: efforts that followed. Today, I want again to focus on
Speaker 1: those impacted directly by September eleven, to listen to their
Speaker 1: stories twenty years later, and to talk with them about
Speaker 1: how they've rebuilt their own lives. So I'm speaking with
Speaker 1: Regina Wilson, a twenty two year veteran with the Fire
Speaker 1: Department of the City of New York. She's one of
Speaker 1: the few black female firefighters among the ranks and was
Speaker 1: on the scene that day and at Ground zero in
Speaker 1: the aftermath alongside her fellow first responders. I'll also be
Speaker 1: talking with Jay Winnick, who lost his brother Glenn in
Speaker 1: the World Trade Center and then went on to create
Speaker 1: the nine eleven Day of Service in Glenn's memory. But first,
Speaker 1: I am delighted to be reconnecting with Debbie st. John.
Speaker 1: Debbie is one of the most heroic women I know.
Speaker 1: On her way to work that beautiful September Tuesday morning,
Speaker 1: Debbie was struck by falling debris from the second airplane
Speaker 1: when it hit the World Trade Center. Her legs were crushed,
Speaker 1: she lost consciousness, and she was admitted to New York
Speaker 1: University Downtown Hospital as Jane Doe Number one. Nobody even
Speaker 1: knew who she was. I visited with Debbie in the
Speaker 1: hospital days after nine eleven, and then we kept in
Speaker 1: touch over the years as her recovery from countless success
Speaker 1: of surgeries and rigorous physical therapy turned into a year's
Speaker 1: long battle with opioid dependency. Through it all, Debbie remains
Speaker 1: one of the most determined and optimistic people I've ever met,
Speaker 1: and I was so happy that she could join me
Speaker 1: for this episode. I cannot tell you how happy I
Speaker 1: am to talk with you. I have to start by asking,
Speaker 1: how are you feeling as the twentieth anniversary of September
Speaker 1: eleven approaches. I think about you so often, and I
Speaker 1: would bet this is a particularly challenging time for you.
Speaker 1: You know, It's interesting because as much as I'm so
Speaker 1: related to nine eleven, I'm not really emotionally attached to it,
Speaker 1: because the only bit of nine eleven that's really real
Speaker 1: in a sense to me is the visual of the
Speaker 1: second plane hitting the building that I saw and then
Speaker 1: thinking to run. That's my largest memory of all unleven,
Speaker 1: including the hospital. So I didn't think the twentieth anniversary mattered,
Speaker 1: But I'm finding I'm a bit more attached, and it's
Speaker 1: affecting me emotionally more than I thought, probably because I'm
Speaker 1: talking about it more than I've ever talked about I
Speaker 1: bet that's right. You have shared with me and others.
Speaker 1: I know what happened to you on September eleven. You
Speaker 1: were on your way to work at the World Financial
Speaker 1: Center when that second plane hit and then you were
Speaker 1: hit by falling debris that left you severely injured. I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you to, you know, just reflect about
Speaker 1: what you do remember and about your recovery from that day. Wow.
Speaker 1: For me, most of my story is from what people
Speaker 1: told me. Um. I just turned thirty years old on
Speaker 1: June one. I truly believed, without a shadow of a doubt,
Speaker 1: it was going to be the best year of my life.
Speaker 1: I had worked my butt off to be professionally where
Speaker 1: I wanted to be, educationally where I wanted to be,
Speaker 1: and the last probably five years before nine eleven, really
Speaker 1: worked on myself emotionally, you know, to be the happiest
Speaker 1: and most hopeful, positive person I could be. And I
Speaker 1: woke up that morning and I woke up Greg, my fiance,
Speaker 1: and I showed him I was wearing the shirt that
Speaker 1: he bought me for my birthday, and I went to
Speaker 1: the subway, the one in the nine, to go to
Speaker 1: World Trade. The plane must have hit while we were
Speaker 1: probably still in the subway car, because by the time
Speaker 1: we got up to the stairs, the doors opened and
Speaker 1: they were big guys with big um I remember the
Speaker 1: shirts I think they were Navy with yellow writing with
Speaker 1: w TC on them. But they said, we're going to
Speaker 1: take you to safety. We walk out, and then I
Speaker 1: remember looking up seeing the second well I didn't know
Speaker 1: it was the second, but seeing a plane hit the
Speaker 1: World Trade Center, someone yelled, run for cover. I saw
Speaker 1: a construction awning, which is probably not the best thing
Speaker 1: to run for cover over, but it was the only
Speaker 1: thing I can find. And my last thought was I
Speaker 1: have the worst shoes on for running. I thought it
Speaker 1: was like my fault for wearing those shoes. And Greg,
Speaker 1: it said to me, if you would run a second
Speaker 1: slower or a second fest or you might not be alive.
Speaker 1: That's why I remember. And Greg was then your fiance,
Speaker 1: now your husband my husband? Yes, And the rescuers literally
Speaker 1: picked you up off the sidewalk, and I guess rushed you,
Speaker 1: carried you to the hospital as far as you remember,
Speaker 1: Is that right. So there's four men who helped save me,
Speaker 1: Paul Stefen, Orlando and Frank Orlando and Frank were the
Speaker 1: a m T. S. Stefan saw the first plane hit.
Speaker 1: He was I think a medic or helped out in
Speaker 1: that capacity. So he decided to go head down to
Speaker 1: the Wall Trade Center and CYA he could help, so,
Speaker 1: he said he noticed me as soon as I hit
Speaker 1: the street. He saw when the second plane hit, and
Speaker 1: he saw me look scared. He saw me run, and
Speaker 1: we were running together. I believe, he said. I was
Speaker 1: on the left side of him, and he kept track
Speaker 1: of me, someone he never met before or I knew
Speaker 1: anything about. And um, he saw a huge it looked
Speaker 1: like a propeller. I'm assuming this was part of the
Speaker 1: landing gear coming towards us, and he thought we were
Speaker 1: going to die. And the next thing he knows, I'm
Speaker 1: thrown back. The propeller goes two feet into like a
Speaker 1: cement wall, and he's feet away from me. I never
Speaker 1: thought about what it must have been like after the
Speaker 1: plane hit. You know, it's like a war zone. It's
Speaker 1: like the apocalypse happening, burning pieces. I never thought of
Speaker 1: any of that. I never really knew that he saw
Speaker 1: all this and he chose to go run to death.
Speaker 1: Pretty much for a stranger, it's nice to know that
Speaker 1: there's kindness in really bad times, and that you know,
Speaker 1: people really try to be there for each other, even
Speaker 1: though it doesn't really look like it right now. I
Speaker 1: mean That is one of the lasting lessons for me
Speaker 1: is at that time, people did come together, They did
Speaker 1: help each other, They tried to do whatever they could
Speaker 1: in the moment of such crisis and tragedy. Your journey
Speaker 1: is so incredible because you were severely injured. My butt
Speaker 1: was literally on the road next to me, sliced off.
Speaker 1: I mean when I visited you in the hospital, the
Speaker 1: doctors and this was just a day or two after
Speaker 1: nine eleven, you know, we're just amazed that you were
Speaker 1: still going, given the devastation of the injuries that you suffered.
Speaker 1: And I remember going to see you. I heard that,
Speaker 1: you know, there there were people who had been injured.
Speaker 1: And I remember walking into your hospital room, Debbie, and
Speaker 1: you had these beautiful braids you had. Your hair was
Speaker 1: in braids. The nurse ran up ten minutes before you
Speaker 1: got here. For those reasons, I'll tell you. In the building,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you you looked at gelic even though you
Speaker 1: were devastatingly injured. You were so brave, Debbie. I remember
Speaker 1: when I first saw your determination in action, when you
Speaker 1: told me you were going to dance at your wedding.
Speaker 1: This this young woman lying in this hospital bed, who
Speaker 1: many many people thought would never walk again, let alone
Speaker 1: dance again five or survived. Let's be honest, uh telling
Speaker 1: me I am going to dance at my wedding. And
Speaker 1: you know what, I can attest to that because I
Speaker 1: came to your wedding. I watched you walk down the
Speaker 1: aisle and myself and have that first dance. That determination,
Speaker 1: your absolute tenacity in the face of the worst kind
Speaker 1: of trauma. I just was so inspiring. Can you talk
Speaker 1: about that moment and what made it such a milestone. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, you have to think about what I've
Speaker 1: been going through is eighteen months in the hospital and
Speaker 1: then the next three years, every three months I had
Speaker 1: a surgery. Yeah, so the year of the wedding, I
Speaker 1: took the year off to get healthy, and it was
Speaker 1: like kind of being an athlete for it. I trained
Speaker 1: for it, I was working out, I was doing physical therapy.
Speaker 1: I was doing everything I could. Thank God, at that point,
Speaker 1: I wasn't sick on the opioids. Although I was sick.
Speaker 1: I did throw up for two hours in the middle
Speaker 1: of my wedding, and no one knew. I did not
Speaker 1: know that. But um, I feel like in many ways
Speaker 1: I was born this way. And I had a very
Speaker 1: difficult childhood. I had to be a warrior to get
Speaker 1: through my childhood. I also believe my gift to the
Speaker 1: world is that a model healing. Yes, you do. I'm
Speaker 1: wondering whether, as you think about the last twenty years,
Speaker 1: is there some lesson that you would like other people
Speaker 1: to take from, not just nine eleven, but from what
Speaker 1: you've gone through. Well, you know, since I've figured out
Speaker 1: about opioids, and less opioids mean less pain. And everyone
Speaker 1: in the country talks about opioid addiction, but no one
Speaker 1: talks about opioid dependency, which is millions of people. That's true,
Speaker 1: and that's me. I'm the face of opioid dependency. Well,
Speaker 1: you were in agony, and you were in pain for
Speaker 1: so many years, and then I also had something called
Speaker 1: opioid induced hyper algees yet, which is very common and
Speaker 1: every payment mint doctor knows about it, but they don't
Speaker 1: talk about it. And that's anyone who's on opioids for
Speaker 1: an extended period of time, and that could be a week.
Speaker 1: The opioids mess your nervous system and your brain up
Speaker 1: so much that your body goes on the defense and
Speaker 1: it causes all the pain. I was living on a
Speaker 1: hundred milligrams and Methodona day. My level of pain from
Speaker 1: one to ten was an eight to eleven. Seriously, and
Speaker 1: I'm completely off of Methodona. I'd say I'm before on
Speaker 1: once ten, I don't really have chronic pain. When you
Speaker 1: think about your own journey and all of the challenges,
Speaker 1: what do you want people to know about recovering from
Speaker 1: trauma and in the case of so many recovering from
Speaker 1: opioid dependence, what words of hope encouragement that helped you
Speaker 1: that you can share. Well, I'll be Over the years,
Speaker 1: when anyone we know has gone through a major tragedy,
Speaker 1: I usually get a phone call M and um. The
Speaker 1: last one, which was a long time ago, was UM,
Speaker 1: my husband's best friend's wife lost the baby at eight
Speaker 1: a half months. Oh God. And she called me up
Speaker 1: and she said, what do I do when I feel
Speaker 1: like my world is ending and I'm in all this pain?
Speaker 1: How do I go on? And I've been asked that
Speaker 1: a lot, And it's when life is so bad and
Speaker 1: all you're doing is suffering. You have to find the
Speaker 1: moments to hold onto and you have to give yourself goals.
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, a lot of times, my only
Speaker 1: goal is to get out of bed. M hm. You
Speaker 1: have to make really really small goals, but you must
Speaker 1: have goals, and once you achieve your goal, you must
Speaker 1: celebrate your successes. So what is next for you? I mean,
Speaker 1: now you're focused on your recovery from opioid dependence. What
Speaker 1: else is motivating you. My twin girls turned ten this
Speaker 1: past April, and it was the first time we went
Speaker 1: on a family vacation because I was well enough. I
Speaker 1: was at Universal Studios. Me who can't even like do
Speaker 1: three hours of work sometimes from ten thirty in the
Speaker 1: morning until six pm at night. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1: You forget like I was always a big ride fan before,
Speaker 1: but you know, I got no butt, like you think,
Speaker 1: can I do these things? And truly just feeling that
Speaker 1: elation and excitement and fear and all that that comes
Speaker 1: to the ride. It made me remember the joy of things,
Speaker 1: you know like that. So for me, like the girls,
Speaker 1: are you talking about it? What our next trip is?
Speaker 1: And I think it or not. I think it's gonna
Speaker 1: be to Washington, d C. In the spring. Excellent. I've
Speaker 1: never been to the White House. I think it'd be
Speaker 1: really cool for them to see that. I would love
Speaker 1: for you to see that me too, you know. And
Speaker 1: the other thing that I really want to do is,
Speaker 1: you know, our country is and I want to talk
Speaker 1: a pandemic. We are in an opio epidemic and the
Speaker 1: world as well, but no one talks about the millions
Speaker 1: of us behind closed doors suffering with our families watching
Speaker 1: us on opioid dependency. So for me, the biggest thing
Speaker 1: that I want to do in any way possible is
Speaker 1: to save people from the twenty years of opioid dependency
Speaker 1: that I had to live through because not eleven might
Speaker 1: have changed my life drastically in a moment, but opioids
Speaker 1: is what's stopped it for twenty years. And I really
Speaker 1: feel like if the message gets out that people really
Speaker 1: understand that the opioids is what's causing your pain and
Speaker 1: making you feel worse, I really feel that that can
Speaker 1: change the true factory of this epidemic and of addiction independency.
Speaker 1: Your courage is inspiring and will get people to pay attention. Debbie.
Speaker 1: I hope so, and I can't wait to see what
Speaker 1: the next time in twenty years means to you and
Speaker 1: your family. God bless you. I'm excited, take care, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. After twenty years spent rebuilding her life,
Speaker 1: Debbie is now starting to publicly share her story. She's
Speaker 1: currently writing a book about surviving nine eleven and then
Speaker 1: overcoming opioid dependency. Knowing Debbie, I know it's going to
Speaker 1: be a terrific read. Regina Wilson was only a few
Speaker 1: years into her career as a New York City firefighter
Speaker 1: when the attacks of September eleventh took place. She was
Speaker 1: also then and now one of the very few women,
Speaker 1: let alone women of color in the department. But that morning,
Speaker 1: she was just starting the second of two back to
Speaker 1: back shifts at her station in Brooklyn when the news
Speaker 1: broke and the firehouse alarm sounded, and so she, like
Speaker 1: so many other first responders, ran toward danger. She got
Speaker 1: on the truck, she made her way to Lower Manhattan
Speaker 1: with her fellow firefighters. She assisted in the immediate rescue
Speaker 1: efforts that day and then the arduous search and recovery
Speaker 1: mission in the months that followed. I was so honored
Speaker 1: that Regina shared her story with me, and I am
Speaker 1: so pleased to share that story with you. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the show, Regina, Thank you. I am thrilled to see you.
Speaker 1: We won't be able to convey to everyone listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast everything special about you, particularly your extraordinary singing voice,
Speaker 1: which I've had the privilege of hearing uh several times.
Speaker 1: But it's great to be with you, and I just
Speaker 1: want to start by checking in how are you doing,
Speaker 1: How did you get through the pandemic? How are you
Speaker 1: facing all of the weather and related challenges that we
Speaker 1: now confront Well, first, I want to start off us
Speaker 1: saying it's such an honor to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've loved you since. Hopefully you remember the
Speaker 1: time that we got stuck in California. It was a
Speaker 1: group of women and you were able to get us
Speaker 1: back home. The airline we flew all went out of business.
Speaker 1: I was like, how does that happen? And so you
Speaker 1: came and saved the day and got us home, and
Speaker 1: just to see how much compassion and care you have
Speaker 1: for all of us and wanted to make sure we
Speaker 1: got home safely. From then, I've I've always been a
Speaker 1: champion of yours and I will continue to be. But
Speaker 1: on this side, um, it's been a difficult two years,
Speaker 1: especially adjusting to so much to death going on in
Speaker 1: the city, and how we had to shift a lot
Speaker 1: of gears and be creative with how we were going
Speaker 1: to help the citizens of New York, and then just
Speaker 1: the looming thought of this disease that may ravish us
Speaker 1: and our family. It was very difficult time. I am
Speaker 1: grateful to guy that I definitely made it through and
Speaker 1: my family did. But it's just a hard toll to
Speaker 1: bear to see that your neighbors and you know, the
Speaker 1: person that you always greeted at the store or you
Speaker 1: know at the car wash or the gas station is
Speaker 1: no longer there, and to see how just hard it
Speaker 1: hurt this city. But I'm doing well right now. It's
Speaker 1: just it's just a really busy time, and this week
Speaker 1: is it's tolling enough. But it's just a really hard time.
Speaker 1: I totally understand that because you have been on the
Speaker 1: front lines for more than twenty years now, so much
Speaker 1: that has happened in the city, and be before we
Speaker 1: jump right into your experiences on nine eleven, I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you a little bit about your history and
Speaker 1: your life before that day. What made you decide to
Speaker 1: become a firefighter. Had you ever known any firefighters or
Speaker 1: have any role models. Absolutely not. It was nowhere in
Speaker 1: my radar. Nothing I've ever thought about doing. When I
Speaker 1: went to school, I wanted to come out and be
Speaker 1: in corporate America. Right, that's when you come out of college.
Speaker 1: Most of the times, you know, you want to get
Speaker 1: into different fields. But it's never, um think about blue
Speaker 1: collar how to really get in touch with the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: You want to try and move outside of it. So, um,
Speaker 1: I actually was at an expo at Jacob Javis Center
Speaker 1: because I went there to look for clothes in the
Speaker 1: latest styles and what was going on in black culture.
Speaker 1: So when I was stopped by these firefighters, you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't really pay them any mind. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: like here to get bags. Like. So when they came
Speaker 1: up to me, I mean their elevator speech was great, right, Um,
Speaker 1: in the beginning, it wasn't. And I was walking as
Speaker 1: they were talking to me because they were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you can make a million dollars and twenty years. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I want to make a million dollars now. I don't
Speaker 1: want to wait twenty years. You know, Oh, this is
Speaker 1: a great pension. I'm like, I'm in my twenties. I'm
Speaker 1: not really thinking about pension, even though people in your twenties,
Speaker 1: you should think about pension in your twenties. And so
Speaker 1: it wasn't really appealing to me and the and the
Speaker 1: money that they were making. I was making more money
Speaker 1: working at a real estate company. But what pique my
Speaker 1: interest was that, well, you know, it's not a lot
Speaker 1: of women and it's not a lot of African Americans
Speaker 1: on the job, so this would be a great opportunity
Speaker 1: for you to be a part of it. That's what
Speaker 1: kind of left me intrigued, because I was like, everybody
Speaker 1: loves firefighters, right, like everybody thinks that's the greatest profession
Speaker 1: in the world. But why isn't it that women aren't there?
Speaker 1: And why is it their blacks aren't there. So that's
Speaker 1: what made me like fill out the paper and say, okay,
Speaker 1: well let me see what this is about. Then I
Speaker 1: was groomed by the United Women Firefighters Association and the
Speaker 1: Votal Society. And if it was not for them mentoring me,
Speaker 1: and I mean, because I've never had a job where
Speaker 1: people will call your house to make sure that you
Speaker 1: took the tests that you studied, They trained you physically,
Speaker 1: they kept telling you how much. They wanted you. They
Speaker 1: were like, what are you doing, Come to the firehouse,
Speaker 1: Come see what it's like. So they were trying to
Speaker 1: bring me into this family and it was just an
Speaker 1: amazing thing for me to experience. And the Vulcan Society
Speaker 1: is a very esteemed organization for black and brown firefighters. Right. Yes,
Speaker 1: the society is eighty two years old and it was
Speaker 1: start by forty one firefighters. But the main person who
Speaker 1: tried to get a everybody organized was Chief Wesley Williams.
Speaker 1: When he came on the job, they had black beds,
Speaker 1: were only the black firefighters because sleep in his bed
Speaker 1: and it was mainly near the bathrooms. They had black forks, knives, plates,
Speaker 1: and spoons, and it was such um separation that he
Speaker 1: felt that this was unjust for all other blacks coming
Speaker 1: on the job. So him and forty one other firefighters
Speaker 1: later on in the years formulated the Vocal Society, which
Speaker 1: is the reason why I'm here today. I know that
Speaker 1: representation has continued to slowly increase, but still I think
Speaker 1: it's fair to say, Regina that women firefighters are still
Speaker 1: um small and numbered. So what was it like for
Speaker 1: you joining the department as a woman of color. So
Speaker 1: coming into the academy, I was the only woman there.
Speaker 1: It was over three hundred candidates coming on and it
Speaker 1: was seven black people. So to come from a culture
Speaker 1: of being surrounded by like minded people that look like you,
Speaker 1: and then to come to a culture where I can't
Speaker 1: even find estrogen in the room like it was, it
Speaker 1: was difficult. Um. I remember crying a lot. I remember
Speaker 1: going into my bathroom and put in prayer scriptures on
Speaker 1: the on the glass that I can be able to
Speaker 1: see every day how God would be inspiring me to
Speaker 1: keep going forward. But I'm glad that I was brought
Speaker 1: through that journey because I was the first African American
Speaker 1: woman hired in fifteen years since the Brenda Berkman days,
Speaker 1: my idol, so since the lawsuit, I was the first
Speaker 1: black woman hired in fifteen years. So the weight of
Speaker 1: that was already on my shoulders. But I knew that
Speaker 1: it needed to be done. And you reference Brenda Berkman,
Speaker 1: who might also know who had the guts to sue
Speaker 1: the fire department because of the way women and people
Speaker 1: of color were discriminated against. You know, you did stick
Speaker 1: it out, and I think about all that you and
Speaker 1: your fellow firefighters and so many others gave and displayed
Speaker 1: on September eleventh, two thousand and one. Can you talk
Speaker 1: me through what that day was like for you and
Speaker 1: how did you even learn something had happened of such
Speaker 1: a terrible magnitude. I actually was working the night before
Speaker 1: and I got hired for the day tour. So I
Speaker 1: went into the house watch and that's the area where
Speaker 1: you come and like check in. But um, I actually
Speaker 1: got assigned to work in the truck. So I was
Speaker 1: working across the floor in Latta one oh five. So
Speaker 1: when I was checking a sheet, um, one of my
Speaker 1: co workers, John Chapora, he saw him. He was like, hey, Reginea,
Speaker 1: I see that you're working in the truck today. Do
Speaker 1: you mind if I work in the truck? And I
Speaker 1: was like no, like I'm working over time, like I'm
Speaker 1: I'm getting extra money. I don't care where I work.
Speaker 1: But I knew that he had his paper in for
Speaker 1: the truck, and so I was like, no, go ahead,
Speaker 1: you know, not a problem. You know, I know you
Speaker 1: want to transfer over to go to the truck, so
Speaker 1: get some truck experience, and I don't mind. So then
Speaker 1: as I was starting to check the rig. I was
Speaker 1: hearing the guys in the kitchen yelling, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: oh my god, and I was like, what are they watching?
Speaker 1: Like this is crazy, and I thought it was like
Speaker 1: a television show, but then I knew that it wasn't
Speaker 1: because I started to hear the news broadcaster speaking and
Speaker 1: then I saw like the signature line underneath that a
Speaker 1: plane crashed into the building. And so we were just
Speaker 1: trying to wrap our minds around this tragedy. And then
Speaker 1: you were kind of like talking to each other and
Speaker 1: then the tone alarms go off and they called for
Speaker 1: the truck to respond to the trade center. So we
Speaker 1: tried to help them, you know, get extra tools to
Speaker 1: put on the truck, and then one on five left,
Speaker 1: so we just waited. We just watched the TV and
Speaker 1: was seeing everything that was going on, and then I
Speaker 1: think it was probably about an hour. We got a
Speaker 1: call for a suspicious package after that, and as we
Speaker 1: were going to the suspisige package run, they took us
Speaker 1: off that call and then we went into the battery
Speaker 1: tunnel and started to proceed to go into the chaos,
Speaker 1: which was not eleven. So as you're on the truck
Speaker 1: on the rig, heading towards the World Trade Center. What
Speaker 1: did you see? What was your impression? Initially, as you responded,
Speaker 1: as we were going through the Brooklyn Battery tunnel, this
Speaker 1: large gush of wind came and it shook the engine.
Speaker 1: It shook the engine so violently we had to stop.
Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong because the engine holes five
Speaker 1: gallons of water. How were you shaking five gallons of water?
Speaker 1: But as we went forward, we saw this smoke, this
Speaker 1: white smoke that looked like a blizzard. But then all
Speaker 1: of these people started walking towards us that like looked
Speaker 1: like zombies, and they had all this white dust on them,
Speaker 1: and that was because the building fell. They were coming
Speaker 1: and walking towards our way. And I remember there was
Speaker 1: a woman that was asthmatic, and I had to try
Speaker 1: and take water and put it all over her face.
Speaker 1: But there was nothing that I could do for her.
Speaker 1: So we we pulled the rig up down Water Street
Speaker 1: and then we started to walk towards the buildings. But
Speaker 1: as we were walking towards the buildings, I remember on
Speaker 1: my radio hearing we're under attack, We're under attack, and
Speaker 1: then I heard like this swooping sound. My boss said, run, run, run,
Speaker 1: so we ran back towards the engine, and when I
Speaker 1: turned around to look at what was happening, there was
Speaker 1: this big black smoke that was following us from that point.
Speaker 1: I put on my mask real quick, and then I
Speaker 1: remember this smoke just covered all of us, and I
Speaker 1: was just sitting there thinking like, oh my god, what's
Speaker 1: gonna happen. What's gonna happen to me? I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was going on. And then I saw that the
Speaker 1: smoke was starting to pass, and so I said, okay,
Speaker 1: I made it out of that. And so our officer
Speaker 1: grabbed us up again and we started to proceed forward
Speaker 1: with the with the vehicle, but we couldn't move anymore
Speaker 1: because a lot of the vehicles were abandoned. As we
Speaker 1: were walking, we just seen all of these cars on fires.
Speaker 1: We saw buildings on fires. The hydrants weren't working, so
Speaker 1: we had to collect holes from all of the abandoned
Speaker 1: engines and draft the water from the river. It was
Speaker 1: a crazy day to think out of the box and
Speaker 1: figure out how to deal with the situations and what
Speaker 1: happened to that first truck and with the firefighter who said, hey,
Speaker 1: will you switch with me so I can get on
Speaker 1: that truck. Yeah, everyone in Lot one oh five died
Speaker 1: that day and John's body was never found. They have
Speaker 1: a picture of one oh five going across the Brooklyn
Speaker 1: Bridge as the Trade Center was on fire. So knowing
Speaker 1: and seeing the sacrifices of people going to that building,
Speaker 1: not knowing how or what they were getting themselves into.
Speaker 1: Um they still went, you know. And UM watching some
Speaker 1: of these specials and you're seeing the firefighters walk in
Speaker 1: the lobby of the building, knowing with fate they were
Speaker 1: going to meet. It's just devastating. I remember making a
Speaker 1: phone call when I got on the scene. I called
Speaker 1: my nephew's grandmother because her number is the only one
Speaker 1: I can remember, to tell them to let my family
Speaker 1: know that I'm okay right now, and if anything happened
Speaker 1: to me, just tell them I died, loving what I'm doing,
Speaker 1: and for them not to worry about me. And then
Speaker 1: I remember when I hung up the phone, I was
Speaker 1: resolved and like a piece and a calmness came over me.
Speaker 1: And then after that point, I just got to work
Speaker 1: and I just needed to work until I couldn't work anymore.
Speaker 1: And that's what you did. Absolutely. Do you remember when
Speaker 1: you finally left the scene. Yes, I I left and
Speaker 1: we got back about eleven thirty midnight to the firehouse.
Speaker 1: And this is why I love people and why I
Speaker 1: love doing my job, because when we got back to
Speaker 1: the firehouse, all of the neighbors. When in the firehouse,
Speaker 1: they brought us food, They gave us hugs, a change
Speaker 1: of clothes if we needed it. You know, they were
Speaker 1: giving me bobby pins and brushing my hair, and they
Speaker 1: just wanted to take care of us, you know. And
Speaker 1: to know that people love you as much as you
Speaker 1: love them, like it made all the difference in the
Speaker 1: world to me, and it made me really want to
Speaker 1: keep going back and keep serving the public. And like
Speaker 1: I get emotional just thinking about it, because when people
Speaker 1: don't feel loved, I don't understand it. When you have
Speaker 1: e M t s and police officers and firefighters who
Speaker 1: don't know you right and they want to rest their
Speaker 1: life to save you. And it's weird because some of
Speaker 1: these people hold these weird views of religion and people's
Speaker 1: races and color, and it's crazy on the fireside that
Speaker 1: they would have such disagreements about women and people of color,
Speaker 1: but they would go and sacrifice their lives to go
Speaker 1: and save one. So I just wish like the craziness
Speaker 1: of the thought of Hay would just leave people's minds
Speaker 1: and just everybody just love each other, because there's so
Speaker 1: much more fulfilling to love people then say it is.
Speaker 1: It's and it's empowering and it's energizing and it makes
Speaker 1: for a better life. Absolutely. You know, I will never
Speaker 1: forget going to Ground zero the day after, and the
Speaker 1: air was so thick and acrid, and you literally could
Speaker 1: see everything from the collapsed buildings filling the air and
Speaker 1: by extension, filling your lungs, and you know, I I
Speaker 1: was told to wear a face mask, and it was
Speaker 1: immediately clear to me that despite what was being claimed, Uh,
Speaker 1: the air was not safe to breathe. And part of
Speaker 1: my work then going forward for years as a senator
Speaker 1: was to try to focus on the health impact for
Speaker 1: survivors and first responders, workers and residents. Did you suffer
Speaker 1: any health complications following your work at Ground Zero? Uh?
Speaker 1: The only thing that I've experienced is like nasal drip,
Speaker 1: you know. But what I'm concerned about is, even though
Speaker 1: it's the twenty anniversary, like I still don't know what
Speaker 1: could possibly go on with my body, and the fact
Speaker 1: that there's so few studies on women in the fire
Speaker 1: service and the effect that cancers or fires have to
Speaker 1: our bodies, you know, figuring out what happens with us
Speaker 1: giving birth or our uteruses or anything like that, Like
Speaker 1: they're so afraid to touch that. That is definitely a
Speaker 1: big concerned amone, especially being in the ceremonial unit and
Speaker 1: having to attend the depths of people World Trade Center
Speaker 1: related illnesses and how we're probably going to meet and
Speaker 1: surpass the number of firefighters that died on the day
Speaker 1: of September eleven with the number of people that die
Speaker 1: from Wheelchace Center related illnesses. You said earlier that this
Speaker 1: is a week of lots of reminders because we are
Speaker 1: approaching the twenty anniversary of nine eleven. Does this year
Speaker 1: anniversary feel different compared to the previous years that we've
Speaker 1: all gone through. Yeah, it definitely does, because there's a
Speaker 1: lot more going on and happening ceremonies across the city.
Speaker 1: But I just think it's good and bad. Right. It's
Speaker 1: good because you know, I'm started to see some of
Speaker 1: the families coming out, Some of the firefighters sons are
Speaker 1: now firefighters on a job and getting together every year
Speaker 1: is always a blessing for me to be able to
Speaker 1: see the people that I used to work with that
Speaker 1: may no longer be on the job, or their families
Speaker 1: or the kids of the members. That is always something
Speaker 1: that I hold dear. But it's always a time that
Speaker 1: brings you back and sobers you up in it. To me,
Speaker 1: it's just a gloomy day, but um as a city,
Speaker 1: we gather together and deal with it. That's why I'm
Speaker 1: so proud of my city. Right. You know, we're remembering
Speaker 1: a very terrible time twenty years ago. But the best
Speaker 1: way to be a living rebuke to what happened on
Speaker 1: nine eleven is to serve others, to love others, to
Speaker 1: reach out and lift up others. And that's what you've done.
Speaker 1: You've done that over those twenty two years. You will
Speaker 1: continue to do that. Thank you so very much for
Speaker 1: everything you are doing and will continue to do. I'm
Speaker 1: very grateful. Well, thank you too. It's been an honor
Speaker 1: and a blessing to talk to you, and I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to be able to be here and have this conversation.
Speaker 1: It's a dream for me, So I thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Regina tells me that, along with all the other things
Speaker 1: on her plate, she is thinking of running for office
Speaker 1: sometime in the future. I mentioned at the beginning of
Speaker 1: my conversation with Regina that she has a beautiful singing voice,
Speaker 1: but don't take my word for it. Here she is
Speaker 1: three years ago, on the anniversary of nine eleven, performing
Speaker 1: God Bless America at a Mets game to the Shaw
Speaker 1: Why Bless so may call by sweet by co Bye.
Speaker 1: My final guest today is Jay Winnick. Jay was also
Speaker 1: my guest at the State of the Union address in
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight when I was still the Senator
Speaker 1: from New York. Jay lost his brother Glenn on nine eleven,
Speaker 1: and when Jay and some friends came up with the
Speaker 1: idea of a nine eleven Day of service, I supported
Speaker 1: their effort, both as a Senator but really as a
Speaker 1: fellow American. Jay is a public relations professional, but he's
Speaker 1: dedicated the past twenty years to trying to make something
Speaker 1: good and positive come out of all the pain and
Speaker 1: loss and grief that his family and so many other
Speaker 1: families experienced after nine eleven. You know, Jay, it's been
Speaker 1: a great gift for me to be able to follow
Speaker 1: and support the work that you've done over the last
Speaker 1: two decades. You took the tragedy of the loss of
Speaker 1: your brother and turned it into an opportunity for people
Speaker 1: to give back and to be of service. Could you,
Speaker 1: first of all talk a little bit about your brother
Speaker 1: and describe his heroic efforts on that day. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1: As you well know, Glenn was a partner at the
Speaker 1: law firm Holland to Night. Their offices were located at
Speaker 1: the Broadway Building, which was situated just a couple of
Speaker 1: blocks from the Trade Center. Glenn for twenty years was
Speaker 1: a volunteer firefighter in our hometown on Long Island, and
Speaker 1: he had first time served as the fire commissioner in
Speaker 1: that fire district. He was specially certified in building collaps
Speaker 1: rescue training. That morning, Glenn was in his apartment when
Speaker 1: the first plane hit. He raced downtown. He helped evacuate
Speaker 1: the Holland the Night law offices, and then borrowed a
Speaker 1: first responder medic beg from responders on the scene and
Speaker 1: his building, and he raced into the South tower on
Speaker 1: foot to save lives and perished when the South tower collapsed.
Speaker 1: His partial remains were recovered March two thousand two, surgical
Speaker 1: gloves on his hands, stethoscope on his person, medic beg
Speaker 1: by his side, in likely what had been the lobby
Speaker 1: area of the South Tower. That's as best we know
Speaker 1: about his actions that morning. I know what a tremendous
Speaker 1: loss that was to you and your family, and I
Speaker 1: also know many family members were so devastated by their
Speaker 1: loss and their grief that it took a long time
Speaker 1: for them to gain their footing again at all. But
Speaker 1: it wasn't too long after you found Glenn and you
Speaker 1: began to think about, how do you make something good,
Speaker 1: something positive out of this terrible catastrophe. How did that
Speaker 1: thinking evolve for you? J Well. A good friend and
Speaker 1: colleague named David Payne, who lived three thousand miles away
Speaker 1: in California but was a New Yorker, originally called me
Speaker 1: soon after the attacks. Here he was this New Yorker
Speaker 1: in California, witnessing what was happening in New York, but
Speaker 1: really witnessing what was happening all over the country, people
Speaker 1: stepping forward with acts of kindness to do whatever they
Speaker 1: could in the aftermath at the attacks. And David called me,
Speaker 1: and he said look, you're the only nine eleven family member.
Speaker 1: I know I feel terrible about your brother, but I
Speaker 1: have this idea about trying to create a ritual in
Speaker 1: this country where each nine eleven people do good deeds.
Speaker 1: And I thought, you know, that really makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: Glenn was somebody who lived his life in service and
Speaker 1: died in so of us. When David first called me,
Speaker 1: my family was still reeling, as so many families as
Speaker 1: you well know where. I said to David, let me
Speaker 1: think about your idea. I have a lot on my
Speaker 1: plate right now. I'll get back with you. And I
Speaker 1: did you know some weeks later and I said, you
Speaker 1: know what, I'm ready. Let's do this. Let's see what
Speaker 1: we can get going here. We had no staff, we
Speaker 1: had no budget, we had no plan. But you know,
Speaker 1: we were a couple of public relations professionals. We knew
Speaker 1: how to get the word out and it was important
Speaker 1: to both of us to try and make something good happen.
Speaker 1: From this day, we felt like if in the future
Speaker 1: people only learned about the attacks and they did not
Speaker 1: have a good understanding about the way the world came together,
Speaker 1: focusing on our common humanity, embracing our differences, then we
Speaker 1: will have lost an opportunity. And so one of the
Speaker 1: first things we did was we arranged to meet with
Speaker 1: the leaders of all the different nine eleven organizations and
Speaker 1: trying to get a sense from them did they feel
Speaker 1: like this was a good idea to create a day
Speaker 1: of service in honor of those who perished or who
Speaker 1: were injured. And universally everybody we spoke with within nine
Speaker 1: eleven community was receptive to it, and they thought, yes,
Speaker 1: as difficult as things are right now, this is a
Speaker 1: good path forward for the future as it relates to
Speaker 1: nine eleven. And so we were often running and here
Speaker 1: we are twenty years later, still at it. And so
Speaker 1: this initiative, with the help of so many people, including yourself,
Speaker 1: has grown into the nation's largest annual day of charitable engagement.
Speaker 1: Between twenty and thirty million people a year marked the
Speaker 1: day by doing good deeds for others. And that is
Speaker 1: such a great tribute to your leadership and really to
Speaker 1: the mission. Have you found that by talking about Glenn
Speaker 1: and the loss that represented to you and your family
Speaker 1: and linking that to service, that you're able to help
Speaker 1: people who also have suffered loss and are looking for
Speaker 1: some kind of positive path forward. Yes, you know. On
Speaker 1: one hand, I have a front row see because of
Speaker 1: the work I do in this initiative to see the
Speaker 1: most amazing outpouring of generosity by people who participate. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, I also hear from a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and meet with a lot of people and speak a
Speaker 1: lot of people who have also suffered loss, and they
Speaker 1: express great appreciation that something like this observance exists. We
Speaker 1: have a board member who was a nine eleven family
Speaker 1: member who lost her husband, and she says this observance
Speaker 1: now gives her a safe and positive place to be
Speaker 1: on nine eleven. But it's not just about people who
Speaker 1: are affected by nine eleven. You know, as we all know,
Speaker 1: people suffer great tragedy in their life. But if if
Speaker 1: this observance also gives them hope, then we have accomplished something.
Speaker 1: And I know that we have because I hear from
Speaker 1: them all the time. As we approached the twentieth anniversary,
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but it seems a little surreal.
Speaker 1: It felt like it happened yesterday. But I meet young
Speaker 1: adults all the time who weren't born then don't fully
Speaker 1: grasp the impact that it had on those of us
Speaker 1: who experienced it. So what are your specific plans for
Speaker 1: this year and how do you intend to try to
Speaker 1: reach out, educate and involve young people as well well.
Speaker 1: We have a number of plans in place. As you
Speaker 1: might imagine, I mean a major milestone. We are again
Speaker 1: staging large scale meal packs and cities all over the
Speaker 1: country where thousands and thousands of volunteers come together and
Speaker 1: they packed nonperishable, dry good meals that are then donated
Speaker 1: through Feeding American food banks in those cities. We're partnering
Speaker 1: with World Central Kitchen again as we did last year.
Speaker 1: I love them, raising the money to purchase meals from
Speaker 1: independently owned restaurants and cities around the country, restaurants that
Speaker 1: have really been hit hard by the pandemic, so it
Speaker 1: helps them, and then those ready to go meals are
Speaker 1: donated to healthcare workers and first responders. There's a way
Speaker 1: to say thank you for doing what you do to
Speaker 1: be on the front line to keep us safe. We
Speaker 1: have an education program in the schools UH and we
Speaker 1: provide free lesson plans downloadable lesson plans on our website
Speaker 1: for teachers to use so they can engage students. Nine
Speaker 1: eleven day dot org and there they will find opportunities
Speaker 1: to volunteer in so many different ways. We're launching a
Speaker 1: national ps A campaign that is very unusual in that
Speaker 1: we've brought together more than twenty people from a cross
Speaker 1: section of the nine eleven community to together deliver a
Speaker 1: message that we are stronger together than we are divided. Yes,
Speaker 1: and as you know, well, Secretary Clinton, nine eleven did
Speaker 1: affect just Republicans, just Democrats, just people on the East Coast.
Speaker 1: It affected everybody. That's right. We were all Americans, and
Speaker 1: we were a global community to you know. Of course,
Speaker 1: people from more than ninety countries perished on nine eleven,
Speaker 1: and the world responded together. So when we think about
Speaker 1: the things that typically divide us, you know, all of
Speaker 1: that pales in comparison to what happens when we come
Speaker 1: together to tackle challenges. And as you reference earlier, we
Speaker 1: need that so much. I feel like saying amen, thank
Speaker 1: you for that. No, seriously, it it is the message
Speaker 1: we are stronger together. We have to start taking care
Speaker 1: of each other. We do need to learn more emphathy,
Speaker 1: practice more kindness and service. And some people I know
Speaker 1: might hear us talking, oh wow, you know so Pollyannish,
Speaker 1: so they have no idea how life changing it is
Speaker 1: to actually serve somebody else. I mean, that's the great lesson.
Speaker 1: You can lift yourself out of grief and loss and
Speaker 1: even anger and confusion by going out and helping somebody else.
Speaker 1: That's the beauty, that's the real message of everything you've
Speaker 1: been doing for twenty years. Well, you articulated it very well.
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. J. You know, losing your
Speaker 1: brother Glenn as he ran toward helping people and then
Speaker 1: was lost in the collapse of the South Tower was
Speaker 1: such a devastating experience for your entire family. And the
Speaker 1: way that you have summoned the best of us, called
Speaker 1: us to service, called us to kindness. It's one of
Speaker 1: the lasting legacies of not eleven and I am incredibly
Speaker 1: grateful for your leadership and your example. Thank you, my friend, Well,
Speaker 1: I thank you. As Jay mentioned, you can find out
Speaker 1: more about the September eleventh National Day of Service and
Speaker 1: Remembrance and how you can get involved at nine eleven
Speaker 1: day dot org. As we mark this milestone twenty anniversary,
Speaker 1: I'll be thinking about Debbie, Regina, Jay and the countless
Speaker 1: other people I've met who were directly impacted by nine eleven.
Speaker 1: I'll also be thinking about our country and the challenges
Speaker 1: we've overcome, as well as the ones that still lie ahead.
Speaker 1: And I'll be thinking about how this terrible tragedy inspired
Speaker 1: incredible acts of heroism and service, giving rise to a
Speaker 1: remarkable moment of national unity. Oh. I so hope that
Speaker 1: as we mark twenty years since nine eleven, we will
Speaker 1: be reminded to carry some of that same spirit of
Speaker 1: unity with us as we moved together into the future.
Speaker 1: You and Me Both is brought to you by I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. We're produced by Julie Subran, Kathleen Russo and
Speaker 1: Rob Russo. No relation, but they're both terrific and with
Speaker 1: help from Juma Aberdeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsay Hoffman, Bree Henshaw,
Speaker 1: Brianna Johnson, Nick Merrill, and Lona Velmorrow. Our engineer is
Speaker 1: Zack McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me for this special episode. I
Speaker 1: wish you and your loved ones all the best, and
Speaker 1: I can't wait to come back to our weekly schedule
Speaker 1: starting in twenty two