WEBVTT - 9/11: Looking Back, and Looking Forward 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:05.360 You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. Hi. 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:09.479 I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is a special episode of 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.880 You and Me Both. September eleven has come to be 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:19.080 about a lot of things over the years, counter terrorism, war, 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:25.560 economic and physical recovery, and of course remembering. But for me, 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:31.600 the anniversary is always first and foremost about the victims, survivors, 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:36.720 first responders, and their families. It's about the people who 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:43.240 lived through this devastating tragedy, the pain, loss, health challenges, 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:50.120 and emotional trauma they've experienced, but also the remarkable strength 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:55.920 and resilience they've displayed. As a Senator for New York 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.240 on that day and in the aftermath, I joined in 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.200 witnessing the devastation at the World Trade Center in New York, 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:09.120 at the Pentagon in our nation's capital, and at Shanksville, Pennsylvania, 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.039 and I was deeply involved in the response and recovery 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:19.880 efforts that followed. Today, I want again to focus on 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:25.400 those impacted directly by September eleven, to listen to their 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.400 stories twenty years later, and to talk with them about 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:34.440 how they've rebuilt their own lives. So I'm speaking with 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.800 Regina Wilson, a twenty two year veteran with the Fire 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.800 Department of the City of New York. She's one of 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.720 the few black female firefighters among the ranks and was 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.840 on the scene that day and at Ground zero in 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:54.560 the aftermath alongside her fellow first responders. I'll also be 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:58.200 talking with Jay Winnick, who lost his brother Glenn in 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.560 the World Trade Center and then went on to create 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:06.720 the nine eleven Day of Service in Glenn's memory. But first, 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:11.720 I am delighted to be reconnecting with Debbie st. John. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.160 Debbie is one of the most heroic women I know. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:22.160 On her way to work that beautiful September Tuesday morning, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:27.520 Debbie was struck by falling debris from the second airplane 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.320 when it hit the World Trade Center. Her legs were crushed, 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.760 she lost consciousness, and she was admitted to New York 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:41.519 University Downtown Hospital as Jane Doe Number one. Nobody even 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.520 knew who she was. I visited with Debbie in the 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.240 hospital days after nine eleven, and then we kept in 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:54.440 touch over the years as her recovery from countless success 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:59.680 of surgeries and rigorous physical therapy turned into a year's 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:05.959 long battle with opioid dependency. Through it all, Debbie remains 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.760 one of the most determined and optimistic people I've ever met, 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.120 and I was so happy that she could join me 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:20.440 for this episode. I cannot tell you how happy I 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.520 am to talk with you. I have to start by asking, 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:27.880 how are you feeling as the twentieth anniversary of September 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:32.800 eleven approaches. I think about you so often, and I 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:37.160 would bet this is a particularly challenging time for you. 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:40.640 You know, It's interesting because as much as I'm so 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:46.280 related to nine eleven, I'm not really emotionally attached to it, 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.880 because the only bit of nine eleven that's really real 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:53.840 in a sense to me is the visual of the 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.320 second plane hitting the building that I saw and then 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.760 thinking to run. That's my largest memory of all unleven, 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:07.360 including the hospital. So I didn't think the twentieth anniversary mattered, 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.480 But I'm finding I'm a bit more attached, and it's 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.960 affecting me emotionally more than I thought, probably because I'm 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.360 talking about it more than I've ever talked about I 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.679 bet that's right. You have shared with me and others. 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:24.080 I know what happened to you on September eleven. You 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:26.760 were on your way to work at the World Financial 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.200 Center when that second plane hit and then you were 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:37.680 hit by falling debris that left you severely injured. I 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.680 wanted to ask you to, you know, just reflect about 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.880 what you do remember and about your recovery from that day. Wow. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.839 For me, most of my story is from what people 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.280 told me. Um. I just turned thirty years old on 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:57.159 June one. I truly believed, without a shadow of a doubt, 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:59.840 it was going to be the best year of my life. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.280 I had worked my butt off to be professionally where 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:05.800 I wanted to be, educationally where I wanted to be, 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.880 and the last probably five years before nine eleven, really 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.400 worked on myself emotionally, you know, to be the happiest 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:17.760 and most hopeful, positive person I could be. And I 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.440 woke up that morning and I woke up Greg, my fiance, 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.000 and I showed him I was wearing the shirt that 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.839 he bought me for my birthday, and I went to 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.159 the subway, the one in the nine, to go to 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:32.039 World Trade. The plane must have hit while we were 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.200 probably still in the subway car, because by the time 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.279 we got up to the stairs, the doors opened and 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.680 they were big guys with big um I remember the 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.039 shirts I think they were Navy with yellow writing with 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.640 w TC on them. But they said, we're going to 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:52.479 take you to safety. We walk out, and then I 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.240 remember looking up seeing the second well I didn't know 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.800 it was the second, but seeing a plane hit the 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:03.719 World Trade Center, someone yelled, run for cover. I saw 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:06.720 a construction awning, which is probably not the best thing 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.200 to run for cover over, but it was the only 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.039 thing I can find. And my last thought was I 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.680 have the worst shoes on for running. I thought it 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.760 was like my fault for wearing those shoes. And Greg, 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.400 it said to me, if you would run a second 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.400 slower or a second fest or you might not be alive. 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.880 That's why I remember. And Greg was then your fiance, 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.480 now your husband my husband? Yes, And the rescuers literally 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.200 picked you up off the sidewalk, and I guess rushed you, 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.719 carried you to the hospital as far as you remember, 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:43.160 Is that right. So there's four men who helped save me, 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:48.720 Paul Stefen, Orlando and Frank Orlando and Frank were the 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.800 a m T. S. Stefan saw the first plane hit. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.120 He was I think a medic or helped out in 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.960 that capacity. So he decided to go head down to 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.080 the Wall Trade Center and CYA he could help, so, 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.400 he said he noticed me as soon as I hit 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.600 the street. He saw when the second plane hit, and 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.240 he saw me look scared. He saw me run, and 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:13.920 we were running together. I believe, he said. I was 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:15.800 on the left side of him, and he kept track 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:19.480 of me, someone he never met before or I knew 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:25.800 anything about. And um, he saw a huge it looked 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.120 like a propeller. I'm assuming this was part of the 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.960 landing gear coming towards us, and he thought we were 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.040 going to die. And the next thing he knows, I'm 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.400 thrown back. The propeller goes two feet into like a 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:41.920 cement wall, and he's feet away from me. I never 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.160 thought about what it must have been like after the 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.560 plane hit. You know, it's like a war zone. It's 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.880 like the apocalypse happening, burning pieces. I never thought of 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.480 any of that. I never really knew that he saw 0:07:55.560 --> 0:08:00.559 all this and he chose to go run to death. 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.560 Pretty much for a stranger, it's nice to know that 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:09.200 there's kindness in really bad times, and that you know, 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.160 people really try to be there for each other, even 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.280 though it doesn't really look like it right now. I 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.720 mean That is one of the lasting lessons for me 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:22.480 is at that time, people did come together, They did 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.040 help each other, They tried to do whatever they could 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:31.320 in the moment of such crisis and tragedy. Your journey 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:39.040 is so incredible because you were severely injured. My butt 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.760 was literally on the road next to me, sliced off. 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:45.400 I mean when I visited you in the hospital, the 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.080 doctors and this was just a day or two after 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:53.520 nine eleven, you know, we're just amazed that you were 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.920 still going, given the devastation of the injuries that you suffered. 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:02.439 And I remember going to see you. I heard that, 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.880 you know, there there were people who had been injured. 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:09.640 And I remember walking into your hospital room, Debbie, and 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.920 you had these beautiful braids you had. Your hair was 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.160 in braids. The nurse ran up ten minutes before you 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.520 got here. For those reasons, I'll tell you. In the building, 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.440 I'll tell you you looked at gelic even though you 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:29.760 were devastatingly injured. You were so brave, Debbie. I remember 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:35.000 when I first saw your determination in action, when you 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:41.080 told me you were going to dance at your wedding. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:46.160 This this young woman lying in this hospital bed, who 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.400 many many people thought would never walk again, let alone 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:54.440 dance again five or survived. Let's be honest, uh telling 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:59.080 me I am going to dance at my wedding. And 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.160 you know what, I can attest to that because I 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:06.560 came to your wedding. I watched you walk down the 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:14.480 aisle and myself and have that first dance. That determination, 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:19.200 your absolute tenacity in the face of the worst kind 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.040 of trauma. I just was so inspiring. Can you talk 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:27.200 about that moment and what made it such a milestone. Well, 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.319 first of all, you have to think about what I've 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.960 been going through is eighteen months in the hospital and 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.800 then the next three years, every three months I had 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.400 a surgery. Yeah, so the year of the wedding, I 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:43.520 took the year off to get healthy, and it was 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.000 like kind of being an athlete for it. I trained 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.400 for it, I was working out, I was doing physical therapy. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.080 I was doing everything I could. Thank God, at that point, 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.880 I wasn't sick on the opioids. Although I was sick. 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.079 I did throw up for two hours in the middle 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.680 of my wedding, and no one knew. I did not 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:04.560 know that. But um, I feel like in many ways 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:08.920 I was born this way. And I had a very 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:13.280 difficult childhood. I had to be a warrior to get 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.280 through my childhood. I also believe my gift to the 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:22.640 world is that a model healing. Yes, you do. I'm 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.120 wondering whether, as you think about the last twenty years, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:30.440 is there some lesson that you would like other people 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:34.000 to take from, not just nine eleven, but from what 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:39.720 you've gone through. Well, you know, since I've figured out 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.680 about opioids, and less opioids mean less pain. And everyone 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.520 in the country talks about opioid addiction, but no one 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:52.160 talks about opioid dependency, which is millions of people. That's true, 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.240 and that's me. I'm the face of opioid dependency. Well, 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.120 you were in agony, and you were in pain for 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.600 so many years, and then I also had something called 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.920 opioid induced hyper algees yet, which is very common and 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.680 every payment mint doctor knows about it, but they don't 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.000 talk about it. And that's anyone who's on opioids for 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.000 an extended period of time, and that could be a week. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.240 The opioids mess your nervous system and your brain up 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:20.000 so much that your body goes on the defense and 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.079 it causes all the pain. I was living on a 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:27.000 hundred milligrams and Methodona day. My level of pain from 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.240 one to ten was an eight to eleven. Seriously, and 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.920 I'm completely off of Methodona. I'd say I'm before on 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.480 once ten, I don't really have chronic pain. When you 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.840 think about your own journey and all of the challenges, 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.280 what do you want people to know about recovering from 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:51.960 trauma and in the case of so many recovering from 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:58.000 opioid dependence, what words of hope encouragement that helped you 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.199 that you can share. Well, I'll be Over the years, 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.200 when anyone we know has gone through a major tragedy, 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.800 I usually get a phone call M and um. The 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.600 last one, which was a long time ago, was UM, 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.959 my husband's best friend's wife lost the baby at eight 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.760 a half months. Oh God. And she called me up 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.439 and she said, what do I do when I feel 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.000 like my world is ending and I'm in all this pain? 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:28.080 How do I go on? And I've been asked that 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:33.640 a lot, And it's when life is so bad and 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:38.280 all you're doing is suffering. You have to find the 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:43.520 moments to hold onto and you have to give yourself goals. 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.000 I mean, for me, a lot of times, my only 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.040 goal is to get out of bed. M hm. You 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.400 have to make really really small goals, but you must 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:59.240 have goals, and once you achieve your goal, you must 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.160 celebrate your successes. So what is next for you? I mean, 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:11.120 now you're focused on your recovery from opioid dependence. What 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:15.640 else is motivating you. My twin girls turned ten this 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.240 past April, and it was the first time we went 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.160 on a family vacation because I was well enough. I 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.600 was at Universal Studios. Me who can't even like do 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.760 three hours of work sometimes from ten thirty in the 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:33.040 morning until six pm at night. It was so much fun. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.280 You forget like I was always a big ride fan before, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.080 but you know, I got no butt, like you think, 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.880 can I do these things? And truly just feeling that 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:47.360 elation and excitement and fear and all that that comes 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:52.240 to the ride. It made me remember the joy of things, 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.440 you know like that. So for me, like the girls, 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.480 are you talking about it? What our next trip is? 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.120 And I think it or not. I think it's gonna 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.000 be to Washington, d C. In the spring. Excellent. I've 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:05.920 never been to the White House. I think it'd be 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.800 really cool for them to see that. I would love 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.400 for you to see that me too, you know. And 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.400 the other thing that I really want to do is, 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.480 you know, our country is and I want to talk 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.120 a pandemic. We are in an opio epidemic and the 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.640 world as well, but no one talks about the millions 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.600 of us behind closed doors suffering with our families watching 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.880 us on opioid dependency. So for me, the biggest thing 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:35.520 that I want to do in any way possible is 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.080 to save people from the twenty years of opioid dependency 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.560 that I had to live through because not eleven might 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:45.840 have changed my life drastically in a moment, but opioids 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:50.040 is what's stopped it for twenty years. And I really 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.240 feel like if the message gets out that people really 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.920 understand that the opioids is what's causing your pain and 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.320 making you feel worse, I really feel that that can 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:03.760 change the true factory of this epidemic and of addiction independency. 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:10.280 Your courage is inspiring and will get people to pay attention. Debbie. 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.400 I hope so, and I can't wait to see what 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.200 the next time in twenty years means to you and 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.840 your family. God bless you. I'm excited, take care, Thank 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:28.680 you so much. After twenty years spent rebuilding her life, 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:33.560 Debbie is now starting to publicly share her story. She's 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:38.080 currently writing a book about surviving nine eleven and then 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:43.840 overcoming opioid dependency. Knowing Debbie, I know it's going to 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:50.520 be a terrific read. Regina Wilson was only a few 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.640 years into her career as a New York City firefighter 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.400 when the attacks of September eleventh took place. She was 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.920 also then and now one of the very few women, 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:05.280 let alone women of color in the department. But that morning, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.119 she was just starting the second of two back to 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.720 back shifts at her station in Brooklyn when the news 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.040 broke and the firehouse alarm sounded, and so she, like 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:21.240 so many other first responders, ran toward danger. She got 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.760 on the truck, she made her way to Lower Manhattan 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.120 with her fellow firefighters. She assisted in the immediate rescue 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.440 efforts that day and then the arduous search and recovery 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.400 mission in the months that followed. I was so honored 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.240 that Regina shared her story with me, and I am 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:45.080 so pleased to share that story with you. Welcome to 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:50.000 the show, Regina, Thank you. I am thrilled to see you. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.159 We won't be able to convey to everyone listening to 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:59.879 this podcast everything special about you, particularly your extraordinary singing voice, 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.680 which I've had the privilege of hearing uh several times. 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:06.359 But it's great to be with you, and I just 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.400 want to start by checking in how are you doing, 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.280 How did you get through the pandemic? How are you 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.119 facing all of the weather and related challenges that we 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:21.040 now confront Well, first, I want to start off us 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.560 saying it's such an honor to be on your podcast. 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.000 I mean, I've loved you since. Hopefully you remember the 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.159 time that we got stuck in California. It was a 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.040 group of women and you were able to get us 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:35.320 back home. The airline we flew all went out of business. 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:39.439 I was like, how does that happen? And so you 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.560 came and saved the day and got us home, and 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.560 just to see how much compassion and care you have 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.320 for all of us and wanted to make sure we 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.639 got home safely. From then, I've I've always been a 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.720 champion of yours and I will continue to be. But 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.960 on this side, um, it's been a difficult two years, 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.040 especially adjusting to so much to death going on in 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.040 the city, and how we had to shift a lot 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.040 of gears and be creative with how we were going 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.360 to help the citizens of New York, and then just 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:16.200 the looming thought of this disease that may ravish us 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.400 and our family. It was very difficult time. I am 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.000 grateful to guy that I definitely made it through and 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.560 my family did. But it's just a hard toll to 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.520 bear to see that your neighbors and you know, the 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.840 person that you always greeted at the store or you 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.119 know at the car wash or the gas station is 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.080 no longer there, and to see how just hard it 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.720 hurt this city. But I'm doing well right now. It's 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:43.840 just it's just a really busy time, and this week 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.359 is it's tolling enough. But it's just a really hard time. 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.960 I totally understand that because you have been on the 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:56.480 front lines for more than twenty years now, so much 0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.399 that has happened in the city, and be before we 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:05.879 jump right into your experiences on nine eleven, I wanted 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.320 to ask you a little bit about your history and 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:12.320 your life before that day. What made you decide to 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:17.760 become a firefighter. Had you ever known any firefighters or 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:22.840 have any role models. Absolutely not. It was nowhere in 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.920 my radar. Nothing I've ever thought about doing. When I 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.639 went to school, I wanted to come out and be 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.400 in corporate America. Right, that's when you come out of college. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.440 Most of the times, you know, you want to get 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:39.000 into different fields. But it's never, um think about blue 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.919 collar how to really get in touch with the neighborhood. 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.800 You want to try and move outside of it. So, um, 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.240 I actually was at an expo at Jacob Javis Center 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.879 because I went there to look for clothes in the 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.120 latest styles and what was going on in black culture. 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:01.320 So when I was stopped by these firefighters, you know, 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.520 I didn't really pay them any mind. I'm like, I'm 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.360 like here to get bags. Like. So when they came 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:11.480 up to me, I mean their elevator speech was great, right, Um, 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.719 in the beginning, it wasn't. And I was walking as 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:15.240 they were talking to me because they were like, oh, 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.399 you can make a million dollars and twenty years. I'm like, 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:20.240 I want to make a million dollars now. I don't 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.119 want to wait twenty years. You know, Oh, this is 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.600 a great pension. I'm like, I'm in my twenties. I'm 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.560 not really thinking about pension, even though people in your twenties, 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:32.600 you should think about pension in your twenties. And so 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:34.760 it wasn't really appealing to me and the and the 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.200 money that they were making. I was making more money 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.080 working at a real estate company. But what pique my 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.240 interest was that, well, you know, it's not a lot 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.800 of women and it's not a lot of African Americans 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.320 on the job, so this would be a great opportunity 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:49.560 for you to be a part of it. That's what 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.600 kind of left me intrigued, because I was like, everybody 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:57.200 loves firefighters, right, like everybody thinks that's the greatest profession 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.600 in the world. But why isn't it that women aren't there? 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.840 And why is it their blacks aren't there. So that's 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.359 what made me like fill out the paper and say, okay, 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:09.119 well let me see what this is about. Then I 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:13.600 was groomed by the United Women Firefighters Association and the 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:18.000 Votal Society. And if it was not for them mentoring me, 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.080 and I mean, because I've never had a job where 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:23.520 people will call your house to make sure that you 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:28.040 took the tests that you studied, They trained you physically, 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.240 they kept telling you how much. They wanted you. They 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.440 were like, what are you doing, Come to the firehouse, 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:37.399 Come see what it's like. So they were trying to 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.280 bring me into this family and it was just an 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.119 amazing thing for me to experience. And the Vulcan Society 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:51.520 is a very esteemed organization for black and brown firefighters. Right. Yes, 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:54.720 the society is eighty two years old and it was 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:59.320 start by forty one firefighters. But the main person who 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.560 tried to get a everybody organized was Chief Wesley Williams. 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:05.440 When he came on the job, they had black beds, 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.440 were only the black firefighters because sleep in his bed 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:13.040 and it was mainly near the bathrooms. They had black forks, knives, plates, 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:18.560 and spoons, and it was such um separation that he 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:21.440 felt that this was unjust for all other blacks coming 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:24.760 on the job. So him and forty one other firefighters 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:28.719 later on in the years formulated the Vocal Society, which 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.760 is the reason why I'm here today. I know that 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:37.520 representation has continued to slowly increase, but still I think 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:41.159 it's fair to say, Regina that women firefighters are still 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:45.359 um small and numbered. So what was it like for 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:50.400 you joining the department as a woman of color. So 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.320 coming into the academy, I was the only woman there. 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.879 It was over three hundred candidates coming on and it 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:02.720 was seven black people. So to come from a culture 0:24:02.920 --> 0:24:07.320 of being surrounded by like minded people that look like you, 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:10.840 and then to come to a culture where I can't 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:14.879 even find estrogen in the room like it was, it 0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:19.480 was difficult. Um. I remember crying a lot. I remember 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:23.000 going into my bathroom and put in prayer scriptures on 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:25.159 the on the glass that I can be able to 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:28.919 see every day how God would be inspiring me to 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:32.359 keep going forward. But I'm glad that I was brought 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:36.000 through that journey because I was the first African American 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:39.560 woman hired in fifteen years since the Brenda Berkman days, 0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:44.359 my idol, so since the lawsuit, I was the first 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.560 black woman hired in fifteen years. So the weight of 0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:50.520 that was already on my shoulders. But I knew that 0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:54.479 it needed to be done. And you reference Brenda Berkman, 0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:58.600 who might also know who had the guts to sue 0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:02.639 the fire department because of the way women and people 0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:07.119 of color were discriminated against. You know, you did stick 0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:10.760 it out, and I think about all that you and 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:16.360 your fellow firefighters and so many others gave and displayed 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:20.680 on September eleventh, two thousand and one. Can you talk 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:25.119 me through what that day was like for you and 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:28.360 how did you even learn something had happened of such 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:33.119 a terrible magnitude. I actually was working the night before 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:37.359 and I got hired for the day tour. So I 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:40.200