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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg P and L

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Our

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Speaker 1: next guest is the author of a new book entitled

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Speaker 1: Creative Selection, inside Apple's design process during the golden age

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Speaker 1: of Steve Jobs ken CoA Cienda. He joins us now

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Speaker 1: in our eleven three oh studios, and he is also

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Speaker 1: the former principal engineer of iPhone software at Apple. So

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Speaker 1: if you have any problems with your iPhone, you know

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Speaker 1: who to ask. Great to have you with us hand.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for coming in. Thanks so much, it's great to

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Speaker 1: be here. Tell us why you decided to write this book, Well,

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Speaker 1: I thought, I think I worked at Apple during an

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Speaker 1: interesting time in its history. I got the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: work on some products like the iPhone, but I also

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Speaker 1: started at the company back in two thousand one one.

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Speaker 1: Apple was still an underdog and and the iPod hadn't

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Speaker 1: even been released. Yet and and the Mac was still

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Speaker 1: the company's main product, and and it was at a

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Speaker 1: five percent market share in a computer industry dominated by

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Speaker 1: Microsoft Windows. And so I was I was there. I

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Speaker 1: was a witness to this effort of Steve Jobs to

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Speaker 1: make the company relevant again, not only the market but

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Speaker 1: in people's minds. And and that's with products like the

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Speaker 1: iPhone and and and the iPod before it. Right, that

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Speaker 1: that worked out pretty well. So Ken, here we are.

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Speaker 1: Apple is now worth more than a trillion dollars in

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Speaker 1: market cap. What point in your tenure at Apple did

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Speaker 1: you realized, Huh, we're working on something that's really big. Well,

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Speaker 1: when the iPhone came out, of course, it built upon

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Speaker 1: the iPod before it, and so Apple had already re

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Speaker 1: established itself as as as a company worth watching. But

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Speaker 1: then with the iPhone, uh, and and and the release

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Speaker 1: of apps, and and the excitement that people had, uh

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Speaker 1: that they could carry around this computer in their pocket,

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Speaker 1: and that he could download all of this software that

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Speaker 1: that opened up all of these these these new software

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Speaker 1: and hardware networking capabilities to them. Uh, it became clear

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Speaker 1: to us that that this was something special. Just give

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Speaker 1: people a little flavor of how you ended up at

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Speaker 1: Apple because you did not well. You graduated with a

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Speaker 1: degree from in history, and I understand that you're also

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Speaker 1: at one point thinking of a career as a motorcycle repair.

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Speaker 1: So I graduated from college. I had a history degree,

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Speaker 1: uh and I wanted to do so. Yes, I I

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Speaker 1: went to Yale uh and and but I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do something different from from studying and so I I

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Speaker 1: went to motorcycle mechanics school. I have to say, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this wasn't the most popular decision with my father, but

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Speaker 1: my family got behind me and supported me. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I went out to to fix motorcycles. You know, throughout

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Speaker 1: my throughout my life, throughout my career, I've I've tried

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Speaker 1: to figure out ways that I could reinvent uh and

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Speaker 1: and and integrate new new new efforts, new new directions,

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Speaker 1: new ideas. So ken one thing that I'm struck by

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Speaker 1: as Apple sort of starts a path forward, how much

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Speaker 1: was Steve Jobs responsible for the dynamism of Apple? And

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Speaker 1: you know, does his his death and you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of the saturation of the Apple products at this point

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Speaker 1: create a cap and how much further it can go

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Speaker 1: and innovate? Well, you see Steve created the culture that

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Speaker 1: we used at Apple to build products. And and to

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Speaker 1: just talk a little bit about that a second, because

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Speaker 1: I think it does inform so much about what what

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Speaker 1: what Apple is and how it how it does its work.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was a great editor and and and

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Speaker 1: he set these assignments for people like me a programmer,

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Speaker 1: and he would evaluate the work that came back, you know,

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Speaker 1: always with a mind for how these products would fit

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Speaker 1: into people's lives so that it wouldn't wouldn't be just

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Speaker 1: a piece of technology, uh, that it would be something

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Speaker 1: that people would find meaningful and useful for them, you know.

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Speaker 1: And this this continues on his his his legacy is

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Speaker 1: still very very strong in the company. Well when you

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Speaker 1: say meaningful to them, I mean right now we're broadcasting

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Speaker 1: as these set it hearings go on with Facebook and Twitter,

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Speaker 1: and I just have to wonder, I mean, given the

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Speaker 1: fact that people are raising questions about iPhone or smartphone

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Speaker 1: addictions and that people are using social media that's being

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Speaker 1: corrupted according to some people buy foreign actors and bots

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Speaker 1: and the like. You know, does that does that vision

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Speaker 1: change or is there something about that that has to

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Speaker 1: change just by nature of where we are right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think as a society, as a culture, we are

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Speaker 1: learning what to do with these new devices and and

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Speaker 1: and the pervasive part that they play in our lives. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where this is still new to us. This technology like

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Speaker 1: the iPhone didn't exist a dozen years ago, and Twitter

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Speaker 1: didn't either, and so we are still trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to incorporate these new ideas and these new

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Speaker 1: capabilities into our life. So it's you know, I'm an optimist.

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to figure it out. Well, your

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Speaker 1: book is very optimistic as well, and I gotta say

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Speaker 1: it is a great read. It's called creative Selection. And

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you could just quickly tell the story

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Speaker 1: about a demo that you'd made with a gentleman name

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Speaker 1: Phil Schiller, just had to do with the Corty keyboard

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Speaker 1: that we're If you've got large thumbs, it's your fault.

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Speaker 1: Using and creating the keyboard for the iPhone. Is a

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Speaker 1: fascinating story about collaboration at Apple. Right. Well, you see,

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Speaker 1: the way that we did work was always based on

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Speaker 1: demos and and and we used this creative selection process

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Speaker 1: to Starwinnian process of evolving the projects and and and

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Speaker 1: the products from these early stage stages where lots of

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Speaker 1: times the software wasn't very good. And so this this

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Speaker 1: demo that you're you're mentioning was was an instance where

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Speaker 1: this early prototype, well, it didn't really work very well

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Speaker 1: for Phil and like Apple, he said so. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, for me as a as a product developer

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Speaker 1: and designer, you had to have a pretty thick skin.

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Speaker 1: But you had to react to what these people were

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Speaker 1: saying when they tried to software, because that's the experience

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Speaker 1: that people have. They walk into an Apple store and

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Speaker 1: they pick up a device, and they need to decide

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Speaker 1: if they want to buy it or not. And and

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Speaker 1: so it was job the job for someone like me

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Speaker 1: to make sure that the product worked, that that the

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Speaker 1: experience would be good when people tried the product. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and not to get too offended when people say, uh,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't work for me. I'm sure it was. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was then my my role to step in and

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Speaker 1: figure out what what's making people have that reaction and

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Speaker 1: to bridge that gap so that the experiences is a

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Speaker 1: good one rather than uh. Ken Cakscenda, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for being with us. Ken Kshnda is author and

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Speaker 1: former principal engineer of iPhone software at Apple. His new

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Speaker 1: book is Creative Selection, Inside Apple's design process during the

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Speaker 1: Golden Age. Steve Jobs chairs of Twitter. They are lower

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Speaker 1: right now by four and a half percent. As comes

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Speaker 1: as the chief executive, Jack Dorsey testifies for the Senate

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Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee. Here to tell us more about these hearings

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Speaker 1: and the companies is Mark Douglas, the chief executive of Steelhouse.

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Speaker 1: All Right, Mark Douglass, what do you take away from

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Speaker 1: the hearings? Is this just a political theater or are

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Speaker 1: there going to be substantive changes at these social media companies? Um? Hi,

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Speaker 1: good morning, So Um, I would put a little bit

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Speaker 1: between those two. I mean, I don't think there's going

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Speaker 1: to be much that comes from these hearings from a

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Speaker 1: congressional Senate perspective in terms of legislation that's essentially not

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Speaker 1: already enacted by these companies. And there's the they already

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Speaker 1: have controls and plays, they have taken actions and things

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Speaker 1: like that. But I think the hearings are pretty informative.

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Speaker 1: I think for anyone that chooses to watch them, like

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Speaker 1: with the Zuckerberg testimony, you learn a lot. You learn

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Speaker 1: a lot about how these companies operate, Marco, Who do

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Speaker 1: you think has performed better today, Jack Dorsey or Cheryl Samberg? Um.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl Samberg. Jack sings to me personally, UM, fairly nervous.

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Speaker 1: I think he has never smiled. Demeanor UM, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of um personally to me doesn't read that well.

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Speaker 1: I think Cheryl, you know her, her experience as an

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Speaker 1: executive and kind of comfort just being in front of

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Speaker 1: a microphone and in a setting, UM seeing she just

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Speaker 1: kind of comes across much better. Marca, what if you

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Speaker 1: could comment on the world of advertising as it relates

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Speaker 1: to social media and whether publishers, those people who purchase

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Speaker 1: advertising online are they really getting what the social media

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Speaker 1: companies tell them they're getting or they getting many of

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Speaker 1: the fake and illegitimate accounts that have also been the

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Speaker 1: subject of political investigation. Yeah, I mean that's an interesting question.

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Speaker 1: So the Facebook in particular is widely considered the best

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Speaker 1: performing advertising platform period um and so, and the way

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Speaker 1: that measured is two ways, um. Two people click on

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Speaker 1: the ads and respond to them, and do they purchase

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Speaker 1: goods and services after they see the ads and the

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Speaker 1: goods and services You can't the clicks potentially, UM can

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Speaker 1: be a little you know, maybe a fake box or

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Speaker 1: something like that can do that. There's not really an

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Speaker 1: incentive to do it, but people um companies run these

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Speaker 1: ads and they get the purchases that they're looking for,

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Speaker 1: they get the consumer response that they're looking for. So

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Speaker 1: I think, in particular on the social media companies, that's

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Speaker 1: considered really safe place to advertise and very very high

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Speaker 1: performing place for advertising the place of money. So, given

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Speaker 1: your background and your intimate knowledge of how the advertising

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Speaker 1: works and data collection UH plays out, what is the

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Speaker 1: question that you would ask both Cheryl Sandberg and Jack

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Speaker 1: Dorsey and what would you be hoping to hear? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think what most consumers want to hear. So in

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Speaker 1: terms of the question, let's say that question was coming

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Speaker 1: from a consumer perspective, is my data being solved? I

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Speaker 1: think when I talk to people, they generally understand these

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Speaker 1: platforms are free and in return for them being free,

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Speaker 1: that they're going to receive ads, and those ads are

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Speaker 1: going to be targeted at their interests, words they use

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Speaker 1: in their profiles, things like that, what they you know,

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Speaker 1: where I think most people draw the line is are

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Speaker 1: you selling that data in any way? Are you giving

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Speaker 1: it away? Are you trading it in any way? And

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Speaker 1: I think that's um ultimately the real question here. UM.

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of centers want to talk about

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Speaker 1: political ads. I think that's another not consumed a question,

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Speaker 1: but a question that Americans have is is you know

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Speaker 1: when when their political ad placed, are they legitimate? Are

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Speaker 1: they real? Um? Those are the two key things. I think,

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Speaker 1: the consumer data, what's happening with my data? And and

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Speaker 1: can I trust that the ads I see, particularly in

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Speaker 1: a political arena, are are legitimate? Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Mark Douglas, chief executive Officer of

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Speaker 1: Steelhouse talking about what we've been hearing among the Senate

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Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee, where we have both Cheryl Sandberg as well

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Speaker 1: as Jack Dorsey of Facebook and Twitter respectively, testifying in

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Speaker 1: front of Congress. Really interesting that this hearing was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be about interference with US elections. We've heard very good.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I haven't heard anything specifically about the presidential

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Speaker 1: election or any specifics regarding what the companies have done

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Speaker 1: to ensure that that doesn't happen with the upcoming the

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Speaker 1: term elections. Indeed, and there does seem to be a

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Speaker 1: lot of focus. Potential regulations are oversight of these companies,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps that's what's leading the tech shares to decline

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Speaker 1: more than other arrival industries. The market for initial public

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Speaker 1: offerings in the United States that have been announced more

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Speaker 1: than twenty seven billion dollars worth of initial public offerings

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Speaker 1: so far this year a hundred companies. Here to help

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Speaker 1: us understand the market is Manuel Enrique's founder and chief

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Speaker 1: executive officer of Hercules Capital. They are based in Palo

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Speaker 1: Alto and Manuel joins us now and well, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for being with us. Tell people a little

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Speaker 1: bit about Hercules Capital and the kind of money that

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Speaker 1: you invest and at what stage because you're kind of

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Speaker 1: at the very beginning for a lot of companies, maybe

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Speaker 1: between one and forty million dollars of investment capital. Correct. Well,

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Speaker 1: we kind of helped bridge the gap for companies looking

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Speaker 1: to expand and grow without having UH to ENCURRG greater

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Speaker 1: solution and you get either grow by using venture capital

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Speaker 1: equity dollars or you can grow by having more conservative

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Speaker 1: bank capital. We fit in that middle void where we

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Speaker 1: actually help these companies continue to advance or innovations and

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Speaker 1: their disruptive technologies by preserving more capital ownership to the

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Speaker 1: original investors, original seat investors, and the founders by using

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Speaker 1: a vehicle call venture debt, which is what we do. MM. Interesting.

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Speaker 1: This is especially interesting to me because it comes at

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Speaker 1: a time where there's increasing focus on how the number

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Speaker 1: of I p O s has declined significantly in the

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Speaker 1: United States. SEC Chair Jay Clayton has me that's one

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Speaker 1: of his priorities to basically prompt more companies to go

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Speaker 1: public in the US. What's your take on the I

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Speaker 1: p O market? And you know, do you sort of

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Speaker 1: agree with people who say that people like you who

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Speaker 1: offer this bridge finance saying reduced the need to go public. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's certainly there's there's a lot of factors that question.

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Speaker 1: I mean, number one, you can go back as far

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Speaker 1: as decimalization, uh causing an impact on that, Sarbans Oxley

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Speaker 1: another issue causing that, and then the public shareholders demanding

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Speaker 1: that business models be more developed and start showing less

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Speaker 1: of a cash burned before they go public, and all

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Speaker 1: of that has actually changed, and in fact, fiscal two

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Speaker 1: thousand and eighteen we're probably seeing one of the most

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Speaker 1: robust IBO market activities we haven't seen in probably over

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Speaker 1: a decade and UH So far the first two quarters

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Speaker 1: of the year have been very very strong, with very

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Speaker 1: strong performance for companies like for example, to start with,

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Speaker 1: like Roku alone, UH is up since its i p

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Speaker 1: almost almost three and a half times and its valuation.

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Speaker 1: Docu Signed, one of our own portfolio companies, has been

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Speaker 1: a blockbuster, doing phenomenally well, probably a hundred hundred plus

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Speaker 1: percent since going public, and there's multiple examples of that

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Speaker 1: throughout those recent i p o s. But what makes

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Speaker 1: this I p O market very interesting and very unique.

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Speaker 1: It is not just subject to the technology tape performing well.

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Speaker 1: It's also seeing very good strong performance on biotech. So

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Speaker 1: it's a wide industry uplift that's going on. As investors

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Speaker 1: continue to clamor for growth, they're seeing that growth coming

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Speaker 1: from biotech and technology companies. Just to give the detail

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Speaker 1: about docu Sign, that company went public in March of

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Speaker 1: the year, a seven hundred and twenty three million dollar

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Speaker 1: i p O. That share is so far performing a

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty three What can you tell us about

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Speaker 1: investing in the biotechnology industry or medical device business because

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Speaker 1: those are both areas that you're interested in. Yes, we

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Speaker 1: have um about the one point five billion of assets

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Speaker 1: we have invested, literally half of it is invested in

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Speaker 1: about technology companies from wide array of companies from anywhere

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Speaker 1: from biotech to medical devices to therapeutic diagnostics UM and

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Speaker 1: we're seeing a very great strong performance in that area

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Speaker 1: as well. And we're very happy with what we're seeing

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Speaker 1: with the results in the biotech companies, despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that you've been seen this kind of storm cloud forming

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Speaker 1: on drug prices that has been looming either from the

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Speaker 1: Clinton administration or sorry when Hillary Clinton was looking at

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Speaker 1: drug price regulation and now the Trump administration is looking

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Speaker 1: at drug price regulations. Although we've seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: that headwind causing some impact in biotechs, we're seeing so

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Speaker 1: far the industry seems to be brushing that off rightfully,

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Speaker 1: so because they're making such a great medical advancement that's

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Speaker 1: going on there. So I'm just wondering, from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: one's the best time to invest in a company before

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Speaker 1: they go public at this point or after they go public. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a great question, because what Hercules offers to the

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Speaker 1: shareholders who in our stock is the ability to actually

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Speaker 1: own some of these high promising pre I p O

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Speaker 1: PREEM and a companies that are now beyond just a concept.

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Speaker 1: So we definitely we generally don't invest in a Series

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Speaker 1: A or Series B we search of development company. We

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Speaker 1: tend to invest after the company has shown demonstrative progress

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Speaker 1: in its development. So we try to take as much

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Speaker 1: risk out of the investment as we possibly can and

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Speaker 1: therefore allow our shareholders to participate an additional upside. So

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Speaker 1: an interesting way of looking at Hercules is and Hercules

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Speaker 1: almost be seen as kind of et F of the

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Speaker 1: venture capital industry. We have a wide distribution of different

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Speaker 1: venture capital firms, different uh technology and life sciences companies

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Speaker 1: that we invest in, the different geographies of the United States,

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Speaker 1: and different stages of developments, all aggregated in this one

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Speaker 1: portfolio called Hercules. So you can participate in that by

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Speaker 1: getting a nice dividend yield generally about nine nine percent

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Speaker 1: dividend yield, while also seeing capital appreciation when these companies

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Speaker 1: go public any evidence of docuside. For example, Manuel Henriquez,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Manuel Henriquez,

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Speaker 1: as founder and chief executive officer of Hercules at Capital

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Speaker 1: in Palo Alto, California. I want to shift our attention

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Speaker 1: though now to retail to shopping and the places where

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Speaker 1: you do that shopping. And joining us now is Tom McGee, President,

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Speaker 1: Chief executive Officer of the International Council of Shopping Centers.

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Speaker 1: He joins us here in our eleven three oh studios

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Speaker 1: in New York. Tom, thank you so much for being

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Speaker 1: back with us. Really good to have you, especially in

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Speaker 1: light of the retail earnings that we've gotten, which were inconsistent,

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Speaker 1: I should say, where you have some of the longtime laggards,

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Speaker 1: with J C. Penny, Sears, uh L brands really suffering

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Speaker 1: as a result of weaker earnings, while the Amazons of

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Speaker 1: the world and the Walmart and other big box stores too. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, from your perspective, would it be better

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Speaker 1: for j C. Penny and Sears to go out of

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Speaker 1: business and to let other healthier retailers go in those

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Speaker 1: key spots in some of the malls in order to

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Speaker 1: generate more traffic, or do you think they should hang

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Speaker 1: and for longer. Well, I think that First of all,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a fiercely competitive industry and it always

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Speaker 1: has been. Uh And if you look at uh the

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Speaker 1: retail names today and compared to twenty years ago, and

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Speaker 1: thirty years ago, you see a lot of change and

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Speaker 1: fluctuation that happens. I think consumers should make that, you know, decision,

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Speaker 1: not me, and I understand that, but I'm just wondering

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Speaker 1: from a health perspective, do you think it's it's better

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Speaker 1: for stores to sort of live their life and then

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Speaker 1: be turned over if they're not being super successful, or

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Speaker 1: is it better for familiar names to kind of hang

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Speaker 1: on again. I think I think the consumers should decide that.

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Speaker 1: I think from a from a shopping center developers perspective

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Speaker 1: and an owner and manager, they're always looking for the

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Speaker 1: mix and curation of folks that are going to drive

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Speaker 1: foot traffic. And generally what drives foot traffic is those

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Speaker 1: brands that are doing well in the marketplace, that are

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Speaker 1: offering products or services. And I think that's an important

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Speaker 1: element in you know, retail real estate today, really consumer

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Speaker 1: real estate is that you're moving from really a product

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Speaker 1: centric city and almost an apparel centricity that may have

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Speaker 1: defined retail over the course of the last twenty five

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Speaker 1: years or so, to one that does include that, but

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Speaker 1: it's a composition of a lot more, a lot more services, hospitality.

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Speaker 1: You see quite frankly, when you see what's really happening

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Speaker 1: in in retail in general is and I've always believed,

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Speaker 1: and I've said this on this show, this whole retail

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Speaker 1: apocalypse is just you know, kind of overblown what really

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Speaker 1: is happening as a retail renaissance, and that there is

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Speaker 1: a lot of redevelopment happening where you're mixing, um relative

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Speaker 1: to what consumer demand is, mixing hospitality and living and

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Speaker 1: retail all in one environment because people like to live, work,

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Speaker 1: and play in one place, and I think you're seeing

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Speaker 1: those things happen in retail generally here in the United States.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we just recently issued kind of a

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Speaker 1: global perspectives report because we are an international organization, and

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Speaker 1: I think you see those same trends at different stages

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Speaker 1: taking place across the world as well. All Right, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna give you a list of brands, and you can

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Speaker 1: raise your hand if you've heard of them, because I

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Speaker 1: confess that I've only recently, you know, tried to keep

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Speaker 1: up to date. Thread Up, ever Lane, All Birds Away,

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Speaker 1: Koto Packs, the Ministry of Supply, Indocino and m jem

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Speaker 1: I Yes, and Casper Sleep. What do they all have

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Speaker 1: in common. These are digitally native brands that have all

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Speaker 1: opened actual physical stores. From the perspective of the International

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Speaker 1: Council of Shopping Centers, to those kinds of brands demand

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Speaker 1: something different than what a traditional store based operation wants.

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Speaker 1: Are they savvy er in some ways? Do they want

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Speaker 1: something different? What do they what do they want? First

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Speaker 1: of all, I think it's the I think it's the

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Speaker 1: natural evolution that we should expect that to be a

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Speaker 1: continuing trend. I think the last ten years of really

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Speaker 1: retailers are really invested in their online channel, and you know,

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Speaker 1: not surprisingly so because that was new and emerging. I

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Speaker 1: think what retailers Bobos is one example, right because Walmart

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Speaker 1: bought them, Sure and now and now what you're seeing

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Speaker 1: though is retailers and I really do believe this is

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Speaker 1: the trend of the next ten years. Retailers are going

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Speaker 1: to invest in their physical channel and that synergy that's

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Speaker 1: going to take place because consumers really don't care. They

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Speaker 1: just want, you know, best price, best service, regardless they're

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Speaker 1: somewhat channel agnostic. I do think what you'll see though,

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Speaker 1: is the stores of the future will increasingly focus upon experience.

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Speaker 1: I think some of the brands that you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: you know, Casper, the Sleep you know, it's a sleep center,

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Speaker 1: and you know they're gonna focus upon experience as opposed

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Speaker 1: to just a collection of products, and so infer inferred

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Speaker 1: in that is, yes, the experiential aspect of seeing merchandise

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Speaker 1: in a different way, but also just a greater level

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Speaker 1: of customer service than you've had in the past. You know,

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Speaker 1: the FAO Schwartz is opening up, you know, a new

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Speaker 1: store here in Rocks Center, and all of us that

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Speaker 1: are you know, grew up in the same age group,

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Speaker 1: were excited about that. But you know, when they talked about,

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Speaker 1: you know, the store, they talked a lot about experiential.

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Speaker 1: They're taking a lot of space, but experiential and that

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Speaker 1: the folks that are going to work there are really

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Speaker 1: going to be in some in some ways in character,

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Speaker 1: and you know you're going to have almost a theatrical

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Speaker 1: experience when you go there. And that's on one end

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Speaker 1: of the extreme. On the other end of extreme, you

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Speaker 1: have something like a t J Max quite frankly, which

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Speaker 1: is you know, which doesn't really doesn't have much of

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Speaker 1: an online presence, but it isn't experience because it's like

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Speaker 1: a treasure hunt right to go there, And I think

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Speaker 1: retailers are going to focus more upon what's my experiential

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Speaker 1: offering within my store that's going to differentiate me to

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Speaker 1: our competitors. Since you did just issue a global report,

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Speaker 1: where in the world are you seeing, uh, commercial retail

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Speaker 1: space gain value at the fastest pace right now? Well,

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Speaker 1: obviously the emerging markets, um, you know Asia is is

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Speaker 1: with a growing middle class. Um, you certainly see a

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Speaker 1: lot of investment in retail real estate. I think the

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Speaker 1: Middle East is doing some things that are quite innovative

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Speaker 1: and really I think set an example for some of

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Speaker 1: the things that we are looking to do here in

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Speaker 1: the United States. Um, if you go to a mall

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Speaker 1: and Dubai for example, I mean we all have heard

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Speaker 1: about the ski and shopping exactly, and they've been doing that.

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Speaker 1: That's a decade ago, and you're you're going to see

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Speaker 1: those types of things. You're already starting to see those

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Speaker 1: types of things within malls and shopping centers here in

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Speaker 1: the United States, and so I think you're I think

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Speaker 1: what you're finding in North America is in some cases

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Speaker 1: learning from the rest of the world. We have historically

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Speaker 1: been more much more department store centric here than the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world. I think we're evolving to become

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Speaker 1: much more hospitality and service oriented, which I do think

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Speaker 1: and I don't think it can be overseeing the importance

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Speaker 1: of demographics. You have a you know, a baby boomer

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Speaker 1: generation that's generally empty nesters. Now you have a millennial

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Speaker 1: generation that is not yet in kind of there, you know,

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Speaker 1: having kids, having a home type of a period of

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Speaker 1: their life, and both of those, the largest demographic groups

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Speaker 1: in our country and really in the world, are very

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Speaker 1: much focused upon consuming experiences and services now. Now, maybe

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Speaker 1: the millennials ten years from now will be in a

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Speaker 1: different stage of life. But when you look at what

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Speaker 1: they want right now and what the baby boomers want,

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Speaker 1: which is the hugest percentage of our population, that's what's

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Speaker 1: driving a lot of the changes in retail. Thanks very

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Speaker 1: much for being with us. Tom McGee is the president

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Speaker 1: and the chief executive of the International Council of Shopping

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Speaker 1: Centers and they are out with their Global Perspectives Report.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer I'm pim Fox. I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa

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Speaker 1: Abramowits one before the podcast. You can always catch us

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Speaker 1: worldwide on Bloomberg Radio