1 00:00:24,756 --> 00:00:29,756 Speaker 1: This is not a cautionary tale. 2 00:00:29,576 --> 00:00:32,306 Speaker 2: But it's the truth of an. 3 00:00:32,526 --> 00:00:51,896 Speaker 1: Epic winding trail A list that ends with you First 4 00:00:52,056 --> 00:00:59,986 Speaker 1: name was Mark All lost, all spark The first one 5 00:01:00,006 --> 00:01:12,466 Speaker 1: to break through The next name on my list A 6 00:01:12,566 --> 00:01:23,936 Speaker 1: very dapper Brit Who I never could resist Then he 7 00:01:24,176 --> 00:01:32,116 Speaker 1: faded in the mist He was in a band from 8 00:01:32,156 --> 00:01:37,986 Speaker 1: Birmingham What a smile, oh what style He said he 9 00:01:38,046 --> 00:01:46,106 Speaker 1: could have married me Every name was true But none 10 00:01:46,266 --> 00:01:55,066 Speaker 1: of them were you Then came a suave and handsome 11 00:01:55,346 --> 00:02:07,536 Speaker 1: actor You would know his name But the disqualifying factor 12 00:02:11,796 --> 00:02:21,126 Speaker 1: Wasn't his fortune or his fame The movie star, fancy 13 00:02:21,206 --> 00:02:27,056 Speaker 1: car Black heart, he played the part Turns out he 14 00:02:27,116 --> 00:02:35,196 Speaker 1: wasn't acting Every name was true But none of them 15 00:02:35,256 --> 00:02:47,376 Speaker 1: were you Quiet forecast Looking through the lens Unassuming I 16 00:02:47,476 --> 00:02:54,126 Speaker 1: couldn't have known then Love is as much about trust 17 00:02:55,346 --> 00:03:06,256 Speaker 1: Everything else fakes You were the last name on my list. 18 00:03:10,016 --> 00:03:11,776 Speaker 3: All the years. 19 00:03:11,176 --> 00:03:19,886 Speaker 1: That led to third treat, blind date. I forget the restaurant. 20 00:03:20,046 --> 00:03:26,266 Speaker 1: I couldn't eat or think straight. You and me, those 21 00:03:26,406 --> 00:03:33,246 Speaker 1: other guys never stood a chance. Cause none of them 22 00:03:33,326 --> 00:03:47,306 Speaker 1: were you. None of them were you. 23 00:03:51,816 --> 00:03:54,336 Speaker 4: Welcome to Broken Record, Susannah Huffs. It is such a 24 00:03:54,376 --> 00:03:56,516 Speaker 4: thrill to have you here. And you're with your producer. 25 00:03:57,416 --> 00:04:00,836 Speaker 4: CJ Camareri, who not only produced the record, but some 26 00:04:00,876 --> 00:04:04,876 Speaker 4: of those beautiful trumpet lines you will hear on this album. 27 00:04:05,296 --> 00:04:09,146 Speaker 4: We do want to talk about your new, really wonderful album, 28 00:04:09,366 --> 00:04:12,286 Speaker 4: which I've been enjoying so much because I got a preview. 29 00:04:13,166 --> 00:04:15,206 Speaker 4: Let's talk, first of all, about the title. 30 00:04:15,946 --> 00:04:16,426 Speaker 3: The List. 31 00:04:16,866 --> 00:04:17,306 Speaker 5: The List. 32 00:04:17,626 --> 00:04:17,856 Speaker 1: Yeah. 33 00:04:17,866 --> 00:04:21,896 Speaker 3: So The List came from a conversation that popped up 34 00:04:22,056 --> 00:04:26,276 Speaker 3: in our writing sessions about a that I had cobbled 35 00:04:26,316 --> 00:04:29,976 Speaker 3: together a list over the years in pencil from an 36 00:04:30,076 --> 00:04:32,696 Speaker 3: old Filofax diary. So it was a very small little 37 00:04:32,736 --> 00:04:37,716 Speaker 3: piece of paper, three holes, but a little size of 38 00:04:38,416 --> 00:04:42,366 Speaker 3: my original Filofax when people had Filofaxes. And I had 39 00:04:42,466 --> 00:04:46,966 Speaker 3: just cobbled together this list for my memory banks as 40 00:04:47,026 --> 00:04:49,146 Speaker 3: I went along. And it was decades ago when I 41 00:04:49,486 --> 00:04:51,726 Speaker 3: made the list, but it was just the names of 42 00:04:52,006 --> 00:04:57,806 Speaker 3: anyone that I dated or canoodled with or so there 43 00:04:57,826 --> 00:05:02,266 Speaker 3: were demarcations of or things denoted like if there was 44 00:05:02,306 --> 00:05:04,886 Speaker 3: like a one or a two it might have been 45 00:05:04,926 --> 00:05:08,126 Speaker 3: that there was two two nights with that person or 46 00:05:08,186 --> 00:05:11,846 Speaker 3: two you know stuff like that it was color-coded no 47 00:05:11,886 --> 00:05:14,886 Speaker 3: not color-coded it was in pencil and just like a 48 00:05:15,146 --> 00:05:18,266 Speaker 3: it's a small page about this size from a file 49 00:05:18,306 --> 00:05:21,806 Speaker 3: effects when file effects is where it was an 80s 50 00:05:21,846 --> 00:05:22,646 Speaker 3: thing they were. 51 00:05:22,566 --> 00:05:25,756 Speaker 4: Very popular Most rock stars would not be able to 52 00:05:25,796 --> 00:05:29,966 Speaker 4: fit that on a small piece of paper. 53 00:05:30,526 --> 00:05:33,926 Speaker 3: You mean other rock stars had longer lists than mine, 54 00:05:33,966 --> 00:05:34,286 Speaker 3: you mean? 55 00:05:34,866 --> 00:05:35,146 Speaker 5: Yeah. 56 00:05:35,206 --> 00:05:36,686 Speaker 3: Something along those lines, we're thinking. 57 00:05:36,706 --> 00:05:39,516 Speaker 4: Mick Jagger would need like a teraflop of data or 58 00:05:39,536 --> 00:05:41,216 Speaker 4: something to, you know. 59 00:05:41,456 --> 00:05:45,376 Speaker 3: I love the Rolling Stones, just FYI, as an aside. 60 00:05:45,996 --> 00:05:49,346 Speaker 3: You might not think of that because... You might think Beatles, 61 00:05:49,526 --> 00:05:53,286 Speaker 3: influence for bangles, which it was, and why the name, 62 00:05:53,486 --> 00:05:55,906 Speaker 3: we wanted a B name. And we all had the 63 00:05:55,966 --> 00:05:59,366 Speaker 3: same affinity for the songs that we grew up listening 64 00:05:59,416 --> 00:06:01,736 Speaker 3: to on the radio in the 60s. 65 00:06:01,996 --> 00:06:03,156 Speaker 4: And that started with the Beatles? 66 00:06:03,736 --> 00:06:07,976 Speaker 3: For me, because my mother's friend had a connection, well, 67 00:06:07,996 --> 00:06:10,756 Speaker 3: she worked at Capitol Records. So I have all the 68 00:06:10,816 --> 00:06:14,226 Speaker 3: original Beatles records from the 60s. 69 00:06:14,956 --> 00:06:15,236 Speaker 1: Wow. 70 00:06:15,336 --> 00:06:16,576 Speaker 4: Do you remember the first one she brought? 71 00:06:17,036 --> 00:06:20,276 Speaker 3: It would have probably been the first Beatles album. 72 00:06:20,416 --> 00:06:21,736 Speaker 4: Okay, so from the beginning. 73 00:06:21,936 --> 00:06:22,136 Speaker 3: Yeah. 74 00:06:22,156 --> 00:06:23,136 Speaker 4: Was that Meet the Beatles? 75 00:06:23,376 --> 00:06:24,376 Speaker 3: It was Meet the Beatles. 76 00:06:24,436 --> 00:06:24,976 Speaker 4: Yeah, amazing. 77 00:06:25,016 --> 00:06:26,356 Speaker 3: Yeah, Meet the Beatles. 78 00:06:26,376 --> 00:06:27,376 Speaker 4: Those amazing photographs. 79 00:06:27,416 --> 00:06:27,656 Speaker 5: Yeah. 80 00:06:28,516 --> 00:06:30,936 Speaker 3: In the bangles, there was four of us. So it 81 00:06:30,976 --> 00:06:33,466 Speaker 3: was like based on the Beatles, like the kind of, 82 00:06:33,716 --> 00:06:38,276 Speaker 3: the four players, a drummer, a bass player, and two 83 00:06:38,336 --> 00:06:41,606 Speaker 3: guitar players, and everyone sang. Because there was a lot 84 00:06:41,636 --> 00:06:46,046 Speaker 3: of shared singing in the Beatles, taking turns. And even 85 00:06:46,126 --> 00:06:50,316 Speaker 3: Ringo got... his turn in the Beatles to sing lead. 86 00:06:50,596 --> 00:06:54,696 Speaker 3: So yeah, so it was sort of like, it just 87 00:06:54,736 --> 00:06:58,336 Speaker 3: felt right with the Bangles to kind of, because we 88 00:06:58,576 --> 00:07:02,916 Speaker 3: all had that intense affinity for their childhood memories of 89 00:07:03,216 --> 00:07:06,016 Speaker 3: loving the Beatles. That's sort of how it came about. 90 00:07:06,406 --> 00:07:07,566 Speaker 2: Yeah. 91 00:07:08,106 --> 00:07:10,706 Speaker 4: Well, we've wandered from the title, The List. 92 00:07:10,806 --> 00:07:11,066 Speaker 3: Yeah. 93 00:07:11,406 --> 00:07:13,186 Speaker 4: The way you describe it, it sounds like almost kind 94 00:07:13,206 --> 00:07:17,476 Speaker 4: of a jokey thing but in fact it's this very 95 00:07:17,496 --> 00:07:22,436 Speaker 4: beautiful yeah i'm not gonna say earnest i found it 96 00:07:22,456 --> 00:07:25,596 Speaker 4: a very touching song. 97 00:07:25,416 --> 00:07:28,586 Speaker 3: Oh the song itself the song is touching i can 98 00:07:28,646 --> 00:07:32,926 Speaker 3: hardly uh get to the to my own husband's name 99 00:07:33,006 --> 00:07:35,726 Speaker 3: on the list when it and there's a little gap 100 00:07:35,786 --> 00:07:38,696 Speaker 3: and he's at the bottom of it and Sometimes I 101 00:07:38,736 --> 00:07:41,236 Speaker 3: have to hold back this feeling like I made it 102 00:07:41,366 --> 00:07:44,446 Speaker 3: all the way through all of this stuff, all of 103 00:07:44,506 --> 00:07:48,546 Speaker 3: this weird history in my 20s and being on the 104 00:07:48,606 --> 00:07:51,326 Speaker 3: road and a bangle and blah, blah, blah. And then 105 00:07:51,866 --> 00:07:56,026 Speaker 3: I just got to Jay. And that was it. That's 106 00:07:56,046 --> 00:07:57,346 Speaker 3: the last name on the list. 107 00:07:58,246 --> 00:07:59,626 Speaker 4: Has he heard the song? 108 00:07:59,946 --> 00:08:01,326 Speaker 3: Oh, I think so. 109 00:08:01,366 --> 00:08:01,876 Speaker 1: He loves it. 110 00:08:01,906 --> 00:08:03,386 Speaker 3: He loves it. Yeah. 111 00:08:04,446 --> 00:08:08,126 Speaker 4: Throughout this album, I found there's this People who are 112 00:08:08,206 --> 00:08:10,866 Speaker 4: longtime fans of yours, they'll love the guitar work, they'll 113 00:08:10,886 --> 00:08:14,916 Speaker 4: love the singing and the smart lyrics. But there's this 114 00:08:14,936 --> 00:08:18,736 Speaker 4: sort of melancholy that runs through this album for me. 115 00:08:19,216 --> 00:08:20,116 Speaker 4: Am I misreading it? 116 00:08:21,276 --> 00:08:24,516 Speaker 3: I don't think you're misreading it. I think there's something 117 00:08:24,616 --> 00:08:29,756 Speaker 3: about yearning and longing for things and being, you know, 118 00:08:29,806 --> 00:08:33,226 Speaker 3: you could even be in a long-term partnership with your 119 00:08:33,326 --> 00:08:37,946 Speaker 3: beloved husband and feel lonely and in the same house, 120 00:08:38,046 --> 00:08:42,116 Speaker 3: you know, under the same roof. Those feelings are part 121 00:08:42,176 --> 00:08:46,216 Speaker 3: of human nature. I'm the daughter of a shrink, a psychoanalyst. 122 00:08:46,816 --> 00:08:48,856 Speaker 3: And some of it is beautiful. And some of it 123 00:08:48,916 --> 00:08:54,926 Speaker 3: is just how it's life, you know, it's how it unfolds. And, 124 00:08:55,606 --> 00:08:58,526 Speaker 3: you know, there's even the emptiness part of it when 125 00:08:58,546 --> 00:09:01,746 Speaker 3: your kids leave or feeling you're under the same roof 126 00:09:01,966 --> 00:09:05,366 Speaker 3: with your your spouse of however many years, but you 127 00:09:05,426 --> 00:09:10,046 Speaker 3: still can feel at sea somehow and alone. And there's 128 00:09:10,086 --> 00:09:12,986 Speaker 3: happy songs and sad songs. I mean, that's why we 129 00:09:13,046 --> 00:09:17,346 Speaker 3: love music. I mean, I grew up on music. My 130 00:09:17,386 --> 00:09:20,866 Speaker 3: mom always had the radio on. She was always driving 131 00:09:20,926 --> 00:09:24,386 Speaker 3: us around in LA here and there. And I just, 132 00:09:25,996 --> 00:09:29,336 Speaker 3: it would cast kind of this magical spell over me. 133 00:09:29,396 --> 00:09:32,556 Speaker 3: And I would sing along and try to memorize and 134 00:09:33,046 --> 00:09:35,896 Speaker 3: and learn, I didn't know what I was doing when 135 00:09:35,936 --> 00:09:39,716 Speaker 3: I was doing it, but I was studying it and 136 00:09:40,516 --> 00:09:46,866 Speaker 3: realizing how nuanced, how much care you can put into 137 00:09:46,886 --> 00:09:51,846 Speaker 3: a syllable, you know, that will change the trajectory of 138 00:09:51,986 --> 00:09:55,786 Speaker 3: why that song will punch you in the gut with 139 00:09:55,846 --> 00:09:59,496 Speaker 3: emotion and that kind of thing. So I'm drawn to 140 00:09:59,536 --> 00:10:01,256 Speaker 3: that kind of music. 141 00:10:02,466 --> 00:10:05,076 Speaker 4: You're also, I forgot to say off the top, a 142 00:10:05,116 --> 00:10:05,876 Speaker 4: bestselling author. 143 00:10:06,216 --> 00:10:06,556 Speaker 1: Thanks. 144 00:10:06,816 --> 00:10:07,376 Speaker 4: A novelist. 145 00:10:09,436 --> 00:10:12,896 Speaker 3: Since I was a little girl. There was, not far 146 00:10:12,956 --> 00:10:15,576 Speaker 3: from where I currently live, but there was a library 147 00:10:16,036 --> 00:10:19,566 Speaker 3: in the neighborhood and I was an avid childhood reader. 148 00:10:19,626 --> 00:10:21,986 Speaker 3: I was obsessed with reading. And it was a lot 149 00:10:22,026 --> 00:10:25,346 Speaker 3: of sort of like witch stories. I don't, I couldn't 150 00:10:25,386 --> 00:10:27,246 Speaker 3: even tell you the names of these books now, but 151 00:10:27,286 --> 00:10:29,446 Speaker 3: I would sit on the floor of the of the 152 00:10:29,486 --> 00:10:32,566 Speaker 3: Brentwood library. And my mother would bring us there, my 153 00:10:32,606 --> 00:10:35,906 Speaker 3: brothers and me, and we would just consume books there. 154 00:10:35,966 --> 00:10:43,846 Speaker 3: And so that was just part of what interested me, stories, stories. 155 00:10:43,926 --> 00:10:46,466 Speaker 3: And then that led to, in some ways, the stories 156 00:10:46,566 --> 00:10:49,766 Speaker 3: that live inside of a song and why we love 157 00:10:49,786 --> 00:10:53,426 Speaker 3: them and why they move us and why we care 158 00:10:54,146 --> 00:10:59,406 Speaker 3: and why it makes life better. You know, certainly music. 159 00:10:59,766 --> 00:11:02,006 Speaker 4: Did the experience of writing a novel, which is a 160 00:11:02,006 --> 00:11:07,466 Speaker 4: very different kind of writing, did that change your lyric writing, 161 00:11:07,486 --> 00:11:07,886 Speaker 4: do you think? 162 00:11:09,226 --> 00:11:16,266 Speaker 3: You know, I found myself liking alliterations or like things 163 00:11:16,586 --> 00:11:20,906 Speaker 3: in the book that had a melodic flow. It wasn't overt, 164 00:11:21,466 --> 00:11:27,996 Speaker 3: but I was definitely aware that I liked... rhythmic sentences 165 00:11:28,466 --> 00:11:34,086 Speaker 3: and I liked alliteration and I liked just things that 166 00:11:34,166 --> 00:11:38,126 Speaker 3: made it a little bit musical and also obviously it 167 00:11:38,166 --> 00:11:42,456 Speaker 3: was really fun to write about a musician and what 168 00:11:42,496 --> 00:11:45,636 Speaker 3: it feels like there's a scene in the beginning of 169 00:11:45,696 --> 00:11:48,996 Speaker 3: the book where she has to do a crappy Vegas 170 00:11:49,436 --> 00:11:52,496 Speaker 3: gig after being dumped and cheated on by a boyfriend 171 00:11:52,536 --> 00:11:55,336 Speaker 3: so her manager who's British says you know I got 172 00:11:55,356 --> 00:11:59,136 Speaker 3: you a gig It's kind of a crappy Vegas gig. 173 00:12:00,056 --> 00:12:04,876 Speaker 3: And Jane Start, the protagonist, is like, okay, she's so 174 00:12:05,136 --> 00:12:09,686 Speaker 3: despairing of her life with the breakup. And then she's like, yeah, 175 00:12:09,726 --> 00:12:12,406 Speaker 3: just rescue me from my own head and just get 176 00:12:12,466 --> 00:12:14,586 Speaker 3: me there. And she has to open for a stripper 177 00:12:15,566 --> 00:12:19,096 Speaker 3: at the Vegas bachelor party. And it's her turn to sing. 178 00:12:19,316 --> 00:12:21,596 Speaker 3: It's kind of like what happens with me where I'm 179 00:12:21,636 --> 00:12:25,276 Speaker 3: just like an ordinary singer. gal getting through the day 180 00:12:25,446 --> 00:12:27,746 Speaker 3: and then it's time to sing and it's like I 181 00:12:27,826 --> 00:12:31,906 Speaker 3: flip a switch somewhere in my body and my brain 182 00:12:32,506 --> 00:12:34,726 Speaker 3: and then I don't know what how I do it 183 00:12:34,786 --> 00:12:36,866 Speaker 3: but I just it just starts it just comes out 184 00:12:36,946 --> 00:12:39,056 Speaker 3: and then I'm in the story of it I'm on 185 00:12:39,076 --> 00:12:41,596 Speaker 3: the road map I'm driving the car here comes the 186 00:12:41,636 --> 00:12:45,776 Speaker 3: high note okay get ready and then please God let 187 00:12:45,816 --> 00:12:47,976 Speaker 3: it work let it be perfect or let it be 188 00:12:48,016 --> 00:12:50,036 Speaker 3: great and it's all that kind of stuff and I 189 00:12:50,096 --> 00:12:53,656 Speaker 3: didn't as I was writing the book I was realizing oh, 190 00:12:53,716 --> 00:12:56,486 Speaker 3: I know all this stuff, but I haven't articulated it. 191 00:12:56,596 --> 00:13:00,336 Speaker 3: It's just something I do when I sing. But I 192 00:13:00,456 --> 00:13:02,756 Speaker 3: was able to put some of that stuff in the book. 193 00:13:03,336 --> 00:13:03,476 Speaker 5: Nice. 194 00:13:03,556 --> 00:13:06,986 Speaker 3: Yeah. In the book, as I said, I found myself 195 00:13:07,036 --> 00:13:12,386 Speaker 3: kind of writing in a lyrical style. And I also 196 00:13:12,426 --> 00:13:15,786 Speaker 3: was able to connect some interesting things like the Jonesy 197 00:13:15,826 --> 00:13:19,086 Speaker 3: character was kind of like the way Prince had been 198 00:13:19,126 --> 00:13:21,026 Speaker 3: in my life. I'm jumping around here now. 199 00:13:21,046 --> 00:13:21,486 Speaker 4: That's all right. 200 00:13:21,606 --> 00:13:24,146 Speaker 3: But it was fun. And sometimes I didn't even know 201 00:13:24,166 --> 00:13:28,716 Speaker 3: that I was thinking about some of the interesting conversations 202 00:13:29,556 --> 00:13:33,676 Speaker 3: and encounters that I had with the brilliant Prince. As 203 00:13:33,736 --> 00:13:35,816 Speaker 3: I was writing the book, all this stuff was sort 204 00:13:35,856 --> 00:13:39,886 Speaker 3: of flooding my brain and things would come to me. 205 00:13:39,986 --> 00:13:42,186 Speaker 3: And it was just, I didn't really have it all 206 00:13:42,766 --> 00:13:46,566 Speaker 3: mapped out. I wasn't organized that way. It kind of 207 00:13:46,586 --> 00:13:50,906 Speaker 3: just unfolded. And as it went, I delighted myself because 208 00:13:50,946 --> 00:13:53,726 Speaker 3: I'd be like, oh, I just, that idea, that, I 209 00:13:53,746 --> 00:13:56,586 Speaker 3: can do that. It's like playing with dolls, but not really, 210 00:13:56,766 --> 00:13:57,786 Speaker 3: like grown-up dolls. 211 00:13:59,406 --> 00:14:01,286 Speaker 4: But now tell me, because this is, I think this 212 00:14:01,326 --> 00:14:03,596 Speaker 4: is your first new album since the book. 213 00:14:04,026 --> 00:14:06,136 Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. 214 00:14:06,156 --> 00:14:11,236 Speaker 4: So having written a whole 350-page book, you're sitting down 215 00:14:11,316 --> 00:14:15,136 Speaker 4: to write a really focused, concentrated lyric again. 216 00:14:15,156 --> 00:14:15,236 Speaker 3: Yeah. 217 00:14:15,736 --> 00:14:16,446 Speaker 4: What was that like? 218 00:14:17,496 --> 00:14:20,186 Speaker 3: It's kind of very different, I think. Songs are more 219 00:14:20,226 --> 00:14:22,786 Speaker 3: like writing a poem or something, but you get the 220 00:14:22,826 --> 00:14:26,506 Speaker 3: melody part too. So that's like, wow, a double whammy. 221 00:14:30,346 --> 00:14:32,966 Speaker 4: So tell me about making this album. First of all, 222 00:14:33,326 --> 00:14:36,686 Speaker 4: what made you decide to make this album? You sat 223 00:14:36,726 --> 00:14:40,406 Speaker 4: down with some great, well, she's pointing at her. 224 00:14:41,306 --> 00:14:43,976 Speaker 3: Her fearless leader. CJ Camerari. 225 00:14:44,156 --> 00:14:45,776 Speaker 4: Tell me how this came about, this album. 226 00:14:46,316 --> 00:14:49,386 Speaker 5: Sue and I started making a different project, which was 227 00:14:49,486 --> 00:14:53,166 Speaker 5: kind of like a reimagining of her Bangles hits. And 228 00:14:53,326 --> 00:14:55,106 Speaker 5: we had such a great time doing that. She just 229 00:14:55,146 --> 00:14:57,546 Speaker 5: casually said one day, she was like, we should start 230 00:14:57,586 --> 00:15:01,696 Speaker 5: writing together. So I brought over some friends to her house. 231 00:15:01,736 --> 00:15:03,856 Speaker 5: And it was just this magical, I think we spent 232 00:15:03,856 --> 00:15:07,216 Speaker 5: 16 writing sessions and ended up with 12 finished songs, 233 00:15:07,636 --> 00:15:10,036 Speaker 5: which is like not how songwriting normally goes. 234 00:15:10,396 --> 00:15:10,516 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 235 00:15:11,426 --> 00:15:14,666 Speaker 5: And we would sit down and Sue would make us 236 00:15:14,716 --> 00:15:17,296 Speaker 5: coffee and she would just start telling us stories of 237 00:15:17,356 --> 00:15:19,996 Speaker 5: her life. And at a certain moment in all these 238 00:15:20,036 --> 00:15:22,896 Speaker 5: songwriting sessions, we'd all get out our phones and start like, 239 00:15:23,506 --> 00:15:25,786 Speaker 5: taking notes of these stories she was telling or get 240 00:15:25,846 --> 00:15:27,106 Speaker 5: out a little yellow legal pen. 241 00:15:27,126 --> 00:15:28,356 Speaker 3: It wasn't intentional. 242 00:15:28,366 --> 00:15:29,896 Speaker 5: She didn't know she was writing a song yet. 243 00:15:30,216 --> 00:15:32,556 Speaker 3: I was just like, something would come up and then 244 00:15:32,596 --> 00:15:33,336 Speaker 3: it would, anyway. 245 00:15:33,556 --> 00:15:35,836 Speaker 5: And we'd finish our coffee after like an hour or 246 00:15:35,896 --> 00:15:39,076 Speaker 5: so of hearing these amazing stories or just talking about, 247 00:15:39,316 --> 00:15:43,016 Speaker 5: you know, emptiness or how she was feeling or relationship 248 00:15:43,136 --> 00:15:45,946 Speaker 5: or anxieties. There's a lot of anxiety talk. Or a 249 00:15:46,346 --> 00:15:49,346 Speaker 5: list of past boyfriends or whatever. And we'd have so 250 00:15:49,386 --> 00:15:52,486 Speaker 5: many notes of these little nuggets of wisdom, nuggets of gold. 251 00:15:53,196 --> 00:15:57,516 Speaker 5: And we would just transition to the music room, to 252 00:15:57,536 --> 00:15:59,876 Speaker 5: the studio she built in her house, and we'd have 253 00:15:59,916 --> 00:16:04,506 Speaker 5: the song ready. And so it was this really easy process. 254 00:16:04,866 --> 00:16:08,446 Speaker 5: And I think by song two or three, we were like, 255 00:16:08,486 --> 00:16:09,966 Speaker 5: I think we're making a record. I think we're going 256 00:16:09,986 --> 00:16:11,746 Speaker 5: to forget about this other thing we were working on 257 00:16:11,766 --> 00:16:14,706 Speaker 5: for a while and concentrate here. Because I think that 258 00:16:17,116 --> 00:16:19,376 Speaker 5: Sue's lived an amazing life. It was a life well lived. 259 00:16:19,606 --> 00:16:24,066 Speaker 5: And the perspective of somebody who's 67 looking back on 260 00:16:24,086 --> 00:16:27,526 Speaker 5: her life and relationships and, you know, family is, is 261 00:16:27,586 --> 00:16:31,926 Speaker 5: a beautiful perspective. And then she still has her voice. 262 00:16:31,966 --> 00:16:33,266 Speaker 5: Like I think a lot of people who have had 263 00:16:33,306 --> 00:16:36,686 Speaker 5: a 40 year career don't have this instrument that sounds 264 00:16:36,766 --> 00:16:38,946 Speaker 5: like it did 40 years ago, but she sounds exactly 265 00:16:38,986 --> 00:16:41,066 Speaker 5: the same. And so it's, yeah, it was just a 266 00:16:42,186 --> 00:16:43,706 Speaker 5: really rewarding process. Yeah. 267 00:16:44,366 --> 00:16:46,246 Speaker 3: Thanks CJ for all that. 268 00:16:46,266 --> 00:16:46,346 Speaker 1: Yeah. 269 00:16:47,186 --> 00:16:50,326 Speaker 4: Your father was a psychoanalyst. This just sounds like you 270 00:16:50,346 --> 00:16:53,806 Speaker 4: were in analysis. The way you're describing it, it's almost 271 00:16:53,866 --> 00:16:59,666 Speaker 4: as like you were having psychoanalytical sessions with your co-writers. 272 00:16:59,766 --> 00:17:00,346 Speaker 3: Totally. 273 00:17:00,426 --> 00:17:00,926 Speaker 5: Definitely. 274 00:17:00,966 --> 00:17:01,286 Speaker 1: Yeah. 275 00:17:01,786 --> 00:17:02,066 Speaker 3: Yeah. 276 00:17:02,406 --> 00:17:04,326 Speaker 4: And then did you all work on the music together 277 00:17:04,346 --> 00:17:05,226 Speaker 4: or was that? 278 00:17:05,606 --> 00:17:09,686 Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah. And we turned Sue's house into a recording studio. 279 00:17:09,706 --> 00:17:10,946 Speaker 3: It was fantastic. 280 00:17:11,666 --> 00:17:11,846 Speaker 5: And. 281 00:17:11,866 --> 00:17:13,726 Speaker 3: You never had to leave. I never had to leave. 282 00:17:13,746 --> 00:17:14,666 Speaker 5: You just had to go downstairs. 283 00:17:14,706 --> 00:17:15,546 Speaker 3: Yeah, just go downstairs. 284 00:17:15,566 --> 00:17:16,246 Speaker 5: Get pajamas on. 285 00:17:16,366 --> 00:17:16,466 Speaker 1: Yep. 286 00:17:17,086 --> 00:17:19,926 Speaker 5: And it just felt like this record is so personal 287 00:17:20,216 --> 00:17:22,356 Speaker 5: and all these stories are of Sue and how she's 288 00:17:22,376 --> 00:17:26,796 Speaker 5: feeling and, you know, this life she's led and having 289 00:17:26,856 --> 00:17:29,936 Speaker 5: the luxury of writing the songs and recording the songs 290 00:17:29,976 --> 00:17:33,176 Speaker 5: and performing them for the record in her home really 291 00:17:33,236 --> 00:17:35,696 Speaker 5: gave her the, you know, sort of the comfortable safe 292 00:17:35,736 --> 00:17:38,836 Speaker 5: space to tell these stories and to be really emotive 293 00:17:38,996 --> 00:17:41,186 Speaker 5: with the singing and with the, you know, sort of 294 00:17:41,206 --> 00:17:44,106 Speaker 5: the narrative of the record. And we were really fortunate to. 295 00:17:44,086 --> 00:17:44,316 Speaker 1: Be able to. 296 00:17:44,326 --> 00:17:45,506 Speaker 3: Emotive is such a good word. 297 00:17:45,586 --> 00:17:45,746 Speaker 1: I know. 298 00:17:46,536 --> 00:17:47,686 Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of things I want to 299 00:17:47,726 --> 00:17:51,766 Speaker 4: talk about your writing, but there's one thing I've noticed, 300 00:17:51,786 --> 00:17:56,006 Speaker 4: and I know these were co-written, but I think really 301 00:17:56,046 --> 00:17:59,006 Speaker 4: from your days in the Bangles, you're such a natural 302 00:17:59,906 --> 00:18:03,176 Speaker 4: melody writer. You know, people will hear of None of 303 00:18:03,216 --> 00:18:08,516 Speaker 4: Them Were You, which is just a picture-perfect melody. It's 304 00:18:08,556 --> 00:18:11,476 Speaker 4: got that descending line. Yeah. It's perfect call and response. 305 00:18:11,516 --> 00:18:11,956 Speaker 1: Yeah. 306 00:18:12,196 --> 00:18:14,376 Speaker 4: And the second time the descending line comes in on 307 00:18:14,396 --> 00:18:15,276 Speaker 4: a different beat. 308 00:18:15,296 --> 00:18:15,966 Speaker 3: Yeah. 309 00:18:16,316 --> 00:18:18,966 Speaker 4: It's really, like I was just, even when you're just playing, 310 00:18:19,006 --> 00:18:21,386 Speaker 4: I was listening, like, man, this is perfect. 311 00:18:21,786 --> 00:18:22,686 Speaker 2: Wow. 312 00:18:22,806 --> 00:18:23,426 Speaker 5: Thank you. 313 00:18:23,806 --> 00:18:26,086 Speaker 4: I think of a lot of your, when I think back, 314 00:18:27,046 --> 00:18:30,346 Speaker 4: November Sun, other songs of yours that I've really liked. 315 00:18:30,806 --> 00:18:34,186 Speaker 4: How do you see melody? I know that's a tricky question. 316 00:18:34,246 --> 00:18:35,826 Speaker 3: Well, I love melody. 317 00:18:36,106 --> 00:18:38,016 Speaker 1: I love melody. 318 00:18:38,036 --> 00:18:44,056 Speaker 3: Melody, yeah, I mean, from my earliest childhood, I... I 319 00:18:44,096 --> 00:18:49,916 Speaker 3: was always singing and I was always mimicking what I heard. 320 00:18:50,036 --> 00:18:55,326 Speaker 3: But the more beautiful melodies have always been what I 321 00:18:55,386 --> 00:19:00,926 Speaker 3: gravitate towards. So I guess it found its way into 322 00:19:01,006 --> 00:19:06,066 Speaker 3: the songwriting once I became a songwriter too. Beyond me 323 00:19:06,186 --> 00:19:10,306 Speaker 3: as a little girl listening to Dusty Springfield and copying 324 00:19:10,466 --> 00:19:13,976 Speaker 3: every swoop every, you know, it's the, it's again, it's 325 00:19:14,016 --> 00:19:17,616 Speaker 3: the roadmap of it. It's like, uh, there's movement in 326 00:19:17,696 --> 00:19:23,736 Speaker 3: it and, and a design kind of, and also even 327 00:19:23,816 --> 00:19:26,736 Speaker 3: when I was just singing a few minutes ago, I 328 00:19:28,336 --> 00:19:32,316 Speaker 3: just want every moment of it. I just want to 329 00:19:32,336 --> 00:19:35,396 Speaker 3: be inside of it and like not thinking of anything else. 330 00:19:35,676 --> 00:19:38,816 Speaker 3: It's a singular focus, which is such a relief in life. 331 00:19:39,486 --> 00:19:41,706 Speaker 3: Like with all the chaos and the noise and the 332 00:19:41,746 --> 00:19:44,726 Speaker 3: thing we're worrying about and what's the day going to be? 333 00:19:45,606 --> 00:19:48,136 Speaker 3: If I just listen to a song, it's just like 334 00:19:48,256 --> 00:19:54,126 Speaker 3: peaceful and quiet and it's focused on the thing that 335 00:19:54,166 --> 00:19:54,746 Speaker 3: it's about. 336 00:19:54,766 --> 00:19:58,006 Speaker 5: One thing we thought about, we talked about a lot 337 00:19:58,246 --> 00:20:01,156 Speaker 5: during this writing process. is this great Paul McCartney quote 338 00:20:01,196 --> 00:20:04,356 Speaker 5: where he was like, we had to write hooks because 339 00:20:04,776 --> 00:20:07,116 Speaker 5: we didn't have a way to casually record. We didn't 340 00:20:07,136 --> 00:20:09,096 Speaker 5: have voice memos. We had to remember the song the 341 00:20:09,136 --> 00:20:12,896 Speaker 5: next day. Oh, that's so interesting. And I thought about 342 00:20:12,936 --> 00:20:14,496 Speaker 5: that a lot when we were writing these songs. It's like, 343 00:20:14,636 --> 00:20:17,016 Speaker 5: everything should be a hook. We have to be, you know, like, 344 00:20:17,056 --> 00:20:20,016 Speaker 5: let's pretend we can't record this and remember it the 345 00:20:20,036 --> 00:20:21,496 Speaker 5: next day. How can we write this song in a 346 00:20:21,536 --> 00:20:24,436 Speaker 5: way that we'll be able to remember it later? You know? 347 00:20:24,676 --> 00:20:26,776 Speaker 4: Oh, that's really interesting. That is so interesting. 348 00:20:26,956 --> 00:20:30,916 Speaker 5: And I thought that was like a really fun, you know, challenge. 349 00:20:31,116 --> 00:20:32,836 Speaker 5: And the other thing is, I was thinking the other day, 350 00:20:33,066 --> 00:20:35,146 Speaker 5: if you listen to the demos of these 12 songs, 351 00:20:35,246 --> 00:20:38,206 Speaker 5: you'll hear 12 folk songs. It's kind of how we 352 00:20:38,246 --> 00:20:41,106 Speaker 5: wrote them. And then we turned them into... pop songs 353 00:20:41,166 --> 00:20:42,986 Speaker 5: or songs that could be on the radio and, you know, 354 00:20:43,106 --> 00:20:45,726 Speaker 5: added all these other elements. But the core of all 355 00:20:45,746 --> 00:20:48,656 Speaker 5: of these songs are folk songs. And I think that 356 00:20:48,696 --> 00:20:50,516 Speaker 5: would be surprising when you listen to the record to 357 00:20:50,556 --> 00:20:51,996 Speaker 5: then think about these songs. 358 00:20:52,096 --> 00:20:54,596 Speaker 3: Well, those are all the old folk songs that my 359 00:20:54,636 --> 00:20:57,726 Speaker 3: uncle Carmi Simon taught me. And when he put a 360 00:20:57,746 --> 00:21:00,466 Speaker 3: guitar in my hand and showed me, you know, a 361 00:21:00,486 --> 00:21:03,066 Speaker 3: little batch of chords, and then I was off to 362 00:21:03,226 --> 00:21:07,646 Speaker 3: the races. But yeah, they were all like old school, 363 00:21:07,666 --> 00:21:11,666 Speaker 3: like hang down your head, Tom Dooley. They're all these like, 364 00:21:12,246 --> 00:21:15,386 Speaker 3: when you think about them, hang down your head, Tom Dooley, 365 00:21:15,806 --> 00:21:18,566 Speaker 3: one day you're gonna die, you know, or whatever. I 366 00:21:18,606 --> 00:21:21,226 Speaker 3: don't remember the lyrics exactly, but it was like, they 367 00:21:21,266 --> 00:21:22,466 Speaker 3: were all those songs. 368 00:21:23,346 --> 00:21:27,606 Speaker 4: So the lesson for songwriters at home, write melodies like 369 00:21:27,636 --> 00:21:28,046 Speaker 4: they're hooks. 370 00:21:28,676 --> 00:21:29,306 Speaker 5: Everything should be a hook. 371 00:21:29,856 --> 00:21:30,736 Speaker 4: Everything should be a hook. 372 00:21:30,896 --> 00:21:32,256 Speaker 5: Everything should be a hook. If it's not a hook, 373 00:21:32,296 --> 00:21:34,056 Speaker 5: it's probably a little bit lazy, you know? 374 00:21:34,616 --> 00:21:34,876 Speaker 4: Wow. 375 00:21:35,496 --> 00:21:35,776 Speaker 5: Okay. 376 00:21:35,796 --> 00:21:37,256 Speaker 4: That is great advice. 377 00:21:37,296 --> 00:21:38,716 Speaker 3: That is good advice. 378 00:21:38,916 --> 00:21:39,276 Speaker 4: By the way. 379 00:21:39,296 --> 00:21:40,146 Speaker 1: Well done you. Yeah. 380 00:21:40,226 --> 00:21:40,446 Speaker 5: Thanks. 381 00:21:40,486 --> 00:21:45,106 Speaker 4: Yeah. We're learning here. So you were surprised an album 382 00:21:45,126 --> 00:21:47,766 Speaker 4: came out of it or that wasn't the aim? 383 00:21:48,946 --> 00:21:52,916 Speaker 3: I was just in for the whole experience, to be 384 00:21:52,956 --> 00:21:57,096 Speaker 3: honest with you. Like meeting CJ, all his friends. friends 385 00:21:57,156 --> 00:22:02,156 Speaker 3: who are all talented musicians. And it was just, you know, 386 00:22:02,176 --> 00:22:04,216 Speaker 3: I was just a little kid in a candy store. 387 00:22:04,296 --> 00:22:07,196 Speaker 3: I just like, what are we doing today? And then 388 00:22:07,916 --> 00:22:12,516 Speaker 3: I didn't even know that me mentioning some story or 389 00:22:12,576 --> 00:22:17,146 Speaker 3: something or that I sharing something would lead to this 390 00:22:17,206 --> 00:22:23,446 Speaker 3: suite of songs coming to be. But I just really 391 00:22:23,486 --> 00:22:27,096 Speaker 3: loved the process. And now we're even in another iteration 392 00:22:27,156 --> 00:22:30,416 Speaker 3: of the process by being here and talking to you 393 00:22:30,616 --> 00:22:31,096 Speaker 3: about it. 394 00:22:31,116 --> 00:22:34,336 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, the aim wasn't like, hey, we should 395 00:22:34,356 --> 00:22:37,836 Speaker 5: write a record of original material. We just were, you know, 396 00:22:38,376 --> 00:22:42,006 Speaker 5: Sue's had this beautiful 40-year career and has built up 397 00:22:42,086 --> 00:22:45,686 Speaker 5: the most goodwill amongst the Los Angeles musical community I've 398 00:22:45,726 --> 00:22:49,656 Speaker 5: ever seen. And so, you know, I had the. 399 00:22:51,406 --> 00:22:53,906 Speaker 5: Immense luxury of just being able to call anyone in 400 00:22:53,946 --> 00:22:55,046 Speaker 5: town and be like hey do you want to write 401 00:22:55,086 --> 00:22:56,686 Speaker 5: a song with susannah hoffs tomorrow and they'd be like 402 00:22:56,746 --> 00:22:59,806 Speaker 5: yep see you there you know and or you know 403 00:22:59,846 --> 00:23:02,426 Speaker 5: the list of players you're greg lease you know john 404 00:23:02,466 --> 00:23:05,966 Speaker 5: bryan you know everybody jumps at the opportunity to work 405 00:23:06,006 --> 00:23:08,846 Speaker 5: for her and work with her and all of a 406 00:23:08,886 --> 00:23:11,066 Speaker 5: sudden we're like i think we have 12 songs i 407 00:23:11,246 --> 00:23:12,106 Speaker 5: think that's a record. 408 00:23:12,086 --> 00:23:14,286 Speaker 4: Well one of the people you called was rufus wainwright 409 00:23:14,366 --> 00:23:17,596 Speaker 4: yeah who plays on uh. 410 00:23:17,956 --> 00:23:21,156 Speaker 3: Well, Jay's movie, my husband's movie, The Roses, we did 411 00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:24,756 Speaker 3: a duet. I think it was a cover of a 412 00:23:24,796 --> 00:23:25,756 Speaker 3: Turtles song now. 413 00:23:25,956 --> 00:23:26,176 Speaker 5: Yeah. 414 00:23:26,216 --> 00:23:26,796 Speaker 3: Happy Together? 415 00:23:26,816 --> 00:23:27,336 Speaker 5: Happy Together. 416 00:23:27,356 --> 00:23:27,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. 417 00:23:27,696 --> 00:23:29,566 Speaker 3: I do love the Turtles. 418 00:23:29,666 --> 00:23:31,826 Speaker 5: Jay wanted it to be a duet, a male-female duet, 419 00:23:31,846 --> 00:23:33,756 Speaker 5: because the movie was a duet. you know, sort of 420 00:23:33,796 --> 00:23:34,716 Speaker 5: a divorce comedy. 421 00:23:34,736 --> 00:23:38,036 Speaker 3: Benedict Cumberbatch and Olivia Colman, two of the greats. 422 00:23:38,476 --> 00:23:40,736 Speaker 5: And I had, I played in Rufus's band for a 423 00:23:40,756 --> 00:23:43,236 Speaker 5: while and, and he wanted to be, the song to 424 00:23:43,276 --> 00:23:46,296 Speaker 5: be happy together. And I just immediately heard Rufus's voice 425 00:23:46,336 --> 00:23:49,526 Speaker 5: go happy together. Rufus's way. 426 00:23:49,806 --> 00:23:50,746 Speaker 3: And the vibrato. 427 00:23:50,766 --> 00:23:50,946 Speaker 4: Yeah. 428 00:23:51,386 --> 00:23:51,746 Speaker 1: Yeah. 429 00:23:51,806 --> 00:23:52,666 Speaker 5: So we did that. 430 00:23:52,846 --> 00:23:54,086 Speaker 3: His tone is amazing. 431 00:23:54,146 --> 00:23:57,446 Speaker 5: So successful. And their, their two voices just sounded incredible together. 432 00:23:57,506 --> 00:23:59,786 Speaker 5: And so we wrote the song bad case of loneliness 433 00:23:59,846 --> 00:24:00,746 Speaker 5: with Ryan Lerman. 434 00:24:00,966 --> 00:24:01,246 Speaker 3: Yeah. 435 00:24:01,526 --> 00:24:08,446 Speaker 5: And the idea of, A song about loneliness in a relationship. Yeah. 436 00:24:08,506 --> 00:24:10,986 Speaker 3: You can be lonely in a relationship. 437 00:24:11,166 --> 00:24:12,566 Speaker 5: The last line of the song is, this bad case 438 00:24:12,586 --> 00:24:15,956 Speaker 5: of loneliness is better with you here. And to have 439 00:24:16,286 --> 00:24:18,916 Speaker 5: Sue and Rufus sing that as a duet about being 440 00:24:18,956 --> 00:24:22,956 Speaker 5: lonely together just seemed really obvious and beautiful. He heard 441 00:24:22,976 --> 00:24:24,676 Speaker 5: the song and was like, come here, I'll do it. 442 00:24:24,816 --> 00:24:26,696 Speaker 4: You see, had you asked me, I wouldn't have guessed 443 00:24:26,716 --> 00:24:28,196 Speaker 4: your voices would mesh so well. 444 00:24:29,736 --> 00:24:31,476 Speaker 3: I think they do because we both have vibrato. 445 00:24:31,496 --> 00:24:33,416 Speaker 4: They do, but I wouldn't have thought that. 446 00:24:33,476 --> 00:24:35,516 Speaker 3: You know, we both sing, we both have a vibrato. 447 00:24:35,556 --> 00:24:37,346 Speaker 5: Well, they both are lead singers, which is like a 448 00:24:37,406 --> 00:24:39,166 Speaker 5: funny thing, you know. 449 00:24:39,226 --> 00:24:41,026 Speaker 3: Am I right about that? He has vibrato too. 450 00:24:41,046 --> 00:24:42,026 Speaker 5: Oh, yeah, tons, yeah. 451 00:24:42,406 --> 00:24:42,686 Speaker 1: Yeah. 452 00:24:43,066 --> 00:24:48,416 Speaker 5: They're both like big emotive lead voices and, you know, 453 00:24:48,616 --> 00:24:51,946 Speaker 5: my thought was that it'll either work or not. really 454 00:24:52,016 --> 00:24:54,566 Speaker 5: not work uh and and thankfully. 455 00:24:54,226 --> 00:24:57,706 Speaker 3: We've done a couple things now yeah so it's a kind. 456 00:24:57,526 --> 00:25:00,406 Speaker 5: Of thing on this folkocracy record oh that's right i 457 00:25:00,426 --> 00:25:01,546 Speaker 5: think that was the first thing. 458 00:25:01,486 --> 00:25:06,576 Speaker 3: Oh yeah that's that's when i first encountered uh working 459 00:25:06,616 --> 00:25:07,156 Speaker 3: with him. 460 00:25:07,216 --> 00:25:10,296 Speaker 4: Yeah he also does or you guys do one of 461 00:25:10,316 --> 00:25:13,556 Speaker 4: my favorite things which is occasionally you hear this sometimes 462 00:25:13,626 --> 00:25:17,956 Speaker 4: in country music The male voice, he'll go above your voice. 463 00:25:18,036 --> 00:25:19,796 Speaker 5: Oh, yeah. Almost always on that song. 464 00:25:19,816 --> 00:25:24,016 Speaker 3: He almost always does. Yeah. Which is, I was so surprised. 465 00:25:24,156 --> 00:25:26,636 Speaker 5: And I was like, okay. That's just where you naturally went. 466 00:25:26,656 --> 00:25:27,716 Speaker 5: People don't do that. 467 00:25:27,816 --> 00:25:29,726 Speaker 4: I mean, it's such, you used to hear that, everything 468 00:25:29,756 --> 00:25:31,646 Speaker 4: but the girl used to do that a bit because 469 00:25:31,686 --> 00:25:32,626 Speaker 4: she had a low voice. 470 00:25:33,026 --> 00:25:33,166 Speaker 1: Right. 471 00:25:33,426 --> 00:25:37,586 Speaker 4: But there's some country songs, of course, I'm blanking. If 472 00:25:37,606 --> 00:25:41,616 Speaker 4: you know Spanish Johnny. Waylon Jennings' Emmylou Harris. 473 00:25:41,636 --> 00:25:42,996 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know that song. 474 00:25:43,236 --> 00:25:46,896 Speaker 4: He sometimes goes above her, and it's just a magic sound. 475 00:25:46,976 --> 00:25:49,596 Speaker 3: Well, the Graham Parsons, you just made me think of it, 476 00:25:49,696 --> 00:25:53,496 Speaker 3: Emmylou Harris thing was really amazing. 477 00:25:53,836 --> 00:25:54,076 Speaker 4: Yeah. 478 00:25:54,236 --> 00:26:00,106 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's been some great duet singing. 479 00:26:00,626 --> 00:26:01,266 Speaker 2: Back in the day. 480 00:26:01,426 --> 00:26:02,346 Speaker 4: I love the wordplay. 481 00:26:02,366 --> 00:26:02,806 Speaker 5: I love the. 482 00:26:03,886 --> 00:26:04,586 Speaker 4: Better With You. 483 00:26:04,606 --> 00:26:05,346 Speaker 5: Oh, yeah. 484 00:26:05,366 --> 00:26:08,646 Speaker 4: That makes it sound like an old, I'm name-checking every 485 00:26:08,686 --> 00:26:11,396 Speaker 4: country song I can think of, but like a Loretta 486 00:26:11,416 --> 00:26:13,096 Speaker 4: Lynn Conway Twitty song or. 487 00:26:13,076 --> 00:26:15,676 Speaker 5: Something like that. We were writing this song, we kept, 488 00:26:16,796 --> 00:26:19,466 Speaker 5: starting with the title, we kept, like, kind of Googling 489 00:26:19,536 --> 00:26:22,506 Speaker 5: to make sure, like, This hadn't been written already because 490 00:26:22,546 --> 00:26:25,616 Speaker 5: it immediately felt like a song that's existed, you know, 491 00:26:25,756 --> 00:26:28,816 Speaker 5: a bad case of loneliness. We're like, this has to exist. 492 00:26:29,036 --> 00:26:30,456 Speaker 3: No, we were just very clever. 493 00:26:30,556 --> 00:26:31,096 Speaker 5: We were just very clever. 494 00:26:31,116 --> 00:26:32,376 Speaker 3: And we figured that out. 495 00:26:33,016 --> 00:26:36,496 Speaker 4: But again, it's, you know, you mentioned it. There's lots 496 00:26:36,536 --> 00:26:40,076 Speaker 4: of songs about being lonely. Being lonely in a relationship 497 00:26:41,076 --> 00:26:42,226 Speaker 4: is a different kind of. 498 00:26:42,246 --> 00:26:43,606 Speaker 3: It's definitely different. 499 00:26:43,646 --> 00:26:43,726 Speaker 5: Yeah. 500 00:26:44,516 --> 00:26:47,316 Speaker 4: And I found that running, I mean, there's that, there's 501 00:26:47,976 --> 00:26:49,736 Speaker 4: Without You, there's This Island. 502 00:26:49,836 --> 00:26:50,206 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. 503 00:26:50,286 --> 00:26:52,926 Speaker 4: A lot of these songs have that sense. 504 00:26:53,406 --> 00:26:58,146 Speaker 3: Shit, maybe something's going wrong in my life now. But 505 00:26:58,186 --> 00:27:01,026 Speaker 3: you know what? It's just part of life. It's part 506 00:27:01,086 --> 00:27:05,476 Speaker 3: of life. I don't think it's just unique to me 507 00:27:05,586 --> 00:27:09,476 Speaker 3: or you. I think loneliness is, I mean, think back 508 00:27:09,536 --> 00:27:12,976 Speaker 3: on the Eleanor Rigby, The Beatles, All the Lonely People. 509 00:27:13,136 --> 00:27:16,246 Speaker 3: It's like, It's been touched upon in songs. 510 00:27:17,946 --> 00:27:21,906 Speaker 5: I think what's unique is how open you are to 511 00:27:22,786 --> 00:27:23,366 Speaker 5: sharing all. 512 00:27:23,266 --> 00:27:24,886 Speaker 3: Of it with us. Yeah, because I'm an open book. 513 00:27:24,906 --> 00:27:29,196 Speaker 3: Maybe it was all the psychoanalysis or something like that 514 00:27:29,276 --> 00:27:31,506 Speaker 3: back in the day when I was in my 20s. 515 00:27:32,376 --> 00:27:34,316 Speaker 4: Maybe I should finish the interview and I'll say, we'll 516 00:27:34,336 --> 00:27:35,276 Speaker 4: discuss it next time. 517 00:27:36,996 --> 00:27:38,566 Speaker 5: No, we had the role of. 518 00:27:38,566 --> 00:27:40,436 Speaker 3: Let's pick up next time where we left off. 519 00:27:40,746 --> 00:27:42,286 Speaker 5: Me and whoever we were writing with kind of had 520 00:27:42,326 --> 00:27:44,246 Speaker 5: the role of psychoanalysis. We'd be like, well, why do 521 00:27:44,286 --> 00:27:47,866 Speaker 5: you feel that way, Sue? I know there's a lot of. 522 00:27:47,826 --> 00:27:50,976 Speaker 3: Questions that analysts do, being the daughter of one and 523 00:27:51,006 --> 00:27:52,576 Speaker 3: having done psychoanalysis. 524 00:27:53,056 --> 00:27:53,676 Speaker 5: But it was great. 525 00:27:53,696 --> 00:27:55,196 Speaker 3: It's a series of questions you have to answer. 526 00:27:55,216 --> 00:27:57,476 Speaker 5: So open and we'd be scribbling notes and, you know. 527 00:27:57,496 --> 00:28:03,356 Speaker 4: It also feels like a lot of, not just the 528 00:28:03,496 --> 00:28:06,066 Speaker 4: None of Them Were You song, there's a lot of Casablanca. 529 00:28:06,146 --> 00:28:07,286 Speaker 4: It feels like there's a lot of Ghosts. 530 00:28:08,476 --> 00:28:09,616 Speaker 1: Oh, I love that. 531 00:28:09,936 --> 00:28:12,856 Speaker 3: That's so true. That's so interesting. 532 00:28:13,656 --> 00:28:14,076 Speaker 5: Casablanca. 533 00:28:14,096 --> 00:28:14,736 Speaker 1: Well put. 534 00:28:14,976 --> 00:28:17,696 Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I mean, Casablanca was kind of exactly that. 535 00:28:17,716 --> 00:28:18,816 Speaker 5: It was through Bob Weir. 536 00:28:19,196 --> 00:28:20,156 Speaker 3: Yeah. 537 00:28:20,176 --> 00:28:20,856 Speaker 4: Tell me the story. 538 00:28:20,896 --> 00:28:27,576 Speaker 3: It was Casablanca. Oh, so I was doing my usual thing. 539 00:28:28,096 --> 00:28:29,276 Speaker 3: Who was there in the room that day? 540 00:28:29,296 --> 00:28:30,496 Speaker 5: It was me, you, and Dan Wilson. 541 00:28:30,816 --> 00:28:34,136 Speaker 3: Yeah. There was a special day because Dan is so brilliant, 542 00:28:34,256 --> 00:28:38,636 Speaker 3: and we had Dan in the room, and I don't remember. 543 00:28:38,696 --> 00:28:42,166 Speaker 3: Did I bring up my Bob Weir experience? 544 00:28:42,226 --> 00:28:42,766 Speaker 5: You did, yeah. 545 00:28:42,846 --> 00:28:44,626 Speaker 3: But did Dan already know about it? 546 00:28:44,766 --> 00:28:47,066 Speaker 5: No, and you had seen Bob at a Grammy event 547 00:28:47,386 --> 00:28:48,386 Speaker 5: like the night before. 548 00:28:48,406 --> 00:28:49,306 Speaker 3: Oh, is it that? 549 00:28:49,446 --> 00:28:50,066 Speaker 2: Oh, okay. 550 00:28:50,346 --> 00:28:51,536 Speaker 5: Thank you for. 551 00:28:51,526 --> 00:28:52,776 Speaker 3: Putting the timeline together. 552 00:28:52,796 --> 00:28:54,496 Speaker 5: Yeah, you were like, what'd you do yesterday? And you 553 00:28:54,536 --> 00:28:57,456 Speaker 5: had both seen Bob Weir at that Grammy event. And 554 00:28:57,476 --> 00:28:59,216 Speaker 5: then I came home and I watched Casablanca. 555 00:28:59,806 --> 00:29:00,156 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I do. 556 00:29:00,156 --> 00:29:02,056 Speaker 5: And so she had just casually mentioned that she had 557 00:29:02,096 --> 00:29:02,716 Speaker 5: watched this movie. 558 00:29:02,736 --> 00:29:05,856 Speaker 3: Just casually, I'd revisited Casablanca. 559 00:29:05,176 --> 00:29:06,376 Speaker 5: Because it's so good. 560 00:29:06,396 --> 00:29:07,576 Speaker 3: Here's looking at you, kid. 561 00:29:08,356 --> 00:29:11,496 Speaker 5: You told us your Bob Weir story, which is so beautiful. 562 00:29:12,016 --> 00:29:16,666 Speaker 3: So, yeah, the Bengals were on tour opening for George Michael. 563 00:29:16,726 --> 00:29:20,466 Speaker 3: It's 1988. We're realizing that on the routing of the tour, 564 00:29:20,506 --> 00:29:26,246 Speaker 3: we keep noticing all these kids in hotels and hotel 565 00:29:26,286 --> 00:29:30,306 Speaker 3: lobbies in tie-dyed shirts and So we go, we do 566 00:29:30,466 --> 00:29:33,776 Speaker 3: our George Michael gigs in New Orleans. There were a 567 00:29:33,796 --> 00:29:39,196 Speaker 3: few of them in a row and we were in 568 00:29:39,256 --> 00:29:42,836 Speaker 3: our hotel in New Orleans and I have a few 569 00:29:42,886 --> 00:29:46,266 Speaker 3: days off. I find myself wandering in the lobby and 570 00:29:46,286 --> 00:29:49,296 Speaker 3: then I kind of go towards where the, the, the 571 00:29:49,336 --> 00:29:52,136 Speaker 3: glass doors open of the Marriott or whatever the hotel 572 00:29:52,176 --> 00:29:55,276 Speaker 3: was at the time. And I see a van pull 573 00:29:55,376 --> 00:30:00,036 Speaker 3: up and I see a bunch of guys flow out 574 00:30:00,076 --> 00:30:03,546 Speaker 3: of the van and there's a definite tour manager guy 575 00:30:03,566 --> 00:30:06,636 Speaker 3: with the briefcase. And I realized, oh my God, it's 576 00:30:06,656 --> 00:30:08,496 Speaker 3: the Grateful Dead. I put it together. It was so 577 00:30:09,276 --> 00:30:14,136 Speaker 3: easy to identify Jerry Garcia and Bob Weir and whoever 578 00:30:14,216 --> 00:30:17,336 Speaker 3: else was in the band at that time. And this 579 00:30:17,426 --> 00:30:21,226 Speaker 3: is how I am as a person. I thought I 580 00:30:21,266 --> 00:30:23,566 Speaker 3: could say nothing or I could go up to the 581 00:30:23,626 --> 00:30:27,206 Speaker 3: tour manager and like before he got in the elevator, 582 00:30:27,286 --> 00:30:31,496 Speaker 3: I said, wait, I'm sorry. That's the Grateful Dead, right? 583 00:30:31,516 --> 00:30:34,376 Speaker 3: He goes, yeah, he was really kind and sweet and didn't. 584 00:30:35,006 --> 00:30:37,266 Speaker 3: blow me off. And I said, oh, I'm in the Bangles. 585 00:30:37,486 --> 00:30:39,606 Speaker 3: I'm staying in the hotel here because they were in 586 00:30:39,646 --> 00:30:43,146 Speaker 3: the same hotel. And I said, we're opening for George Michael. 587 00:30:43,326 --> 00:30:45,526 Speaker 3: And he said, oh, well, somehow it came up, do 588 00:30:45,566 --> 00:30:47,836 Speaker 3: you have days off? Or maybe I said, we have 589 00:30:47,856 --> 00:30:49,536 Speaker 3: a day off. And he said, oh, you have a 590 00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:54,196 Speaker 3: day off? Come to the Neville Brothers hang at Lake Pontchartrain. 591 00:30:55,436 --> 00:30:58,876 Speaker 3: And that's when I met Jerry and he had a baby. 592 00:30:59,016 --> 00:31:02,116 Speaker 3: And that's when I encountered Bob. And Bob was the 593 00:31:02,196 --> 00:31:04,736 Speaker 3: one who said, Do you want to go on a walk? 594 00:31:04,796 --> 00:31:06,596 Speaker 3: And I said, yeah, I love to walk. And so 595 00:31:06,626 --> 00:31:09,706 Speaker 3: we walked all around the lake. And then when it 596 00:31:09,726 --> 00:31:13,426 Speaker 3: was time to be back in New Orleans for their gig, 597 00:31:13,486 --> 00:31:16,086 Speaker 3: he invited us. I was so blown away by their 598 00:31:16,146 --> 00:31:21,566 Speaker 3: whole operation. They had like chefs and rolling tour cases 599 00:31:21,726 --> 00:31:24,686 Speaker 3: with spices in them. And then so we got to, 600 00:31:24,706 --> 00:31:29,816 Speaker 3: they were invited to sing harmony. And then people were 601 00:31:29,856 --> 00:31:33,446 Speaker 3: throwing Mardi Gras beads. And I think Vicky caught one. Vicky, 602 00:31:33,486 --> 00:31:39,626 Speaker 3: the lead guitarist of the Bengals. And anyway, it's what 603 00:31:40,066 --> 00:31:43,326 Speaker 3: predicated the song. It's what led to the song. It 604 00:31:43,366 --> 00:31:47,436 Speaker 3: was the stories that you, me, and Dan talked about, right, 605 00:31:47,496 --> 00:31:48,356 Speaker 3: that very day. 606 00:31:48,376 --> 00:31:52,296 Speaker 5: You know, she told us this tale. And what was 607 00:31:52,336 --> 00:31:55,296 Speaker 5: amazing was, yes, we hear the story from Sue, and 608 00:31:55,336 --> 00:31:57,456 Speaker 5: we write the song sort of about it and tie 609 00:31:57,476 --> 00:31:58,716 Speaker 5: in the movie Casablanca. 610 00:31:59,316 --> 00:31:59,566 Speaker 3: And.... 611 00:32:01,186 --> 00:32:04,526 Speaker 5: A couple months later, we ran into Bob's old tour manager. 612 00:32:05,026 --> 00:32:06,566 Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, my God, you tour manager 613 00:32:06,586 --> 00:32:09,706 Speaker 5: Bob Weir. Sue, come over here. Tell him this story 614 00:32:10,006 --> 00:32:14,286 Speaker 5: of going on these walks with Bob. And he cut 615 00:32:14,326 --> 00:32:16,286 Speaker 5: us off. He was like, are you kidding me? That 616 00:32:16,306 --> 00:32:18,546 Speaker 5: was Bob's favorite story to tell. He loved telling the 617 00:32:18,566 --> 00:32:19,956 Speaker 5: story of when he got to go on a walk 618 00:32:19,976 --> 00:32:24,606 Speaker 5: with Susanna Hopps. It was still in my heart. Beautiful moment. Oh, 619 00:32:24,616 --> 00:32:27,356 Speaker 5: my God. I think there was a lot of, like, 620 00:32:28,136 --> 00:32:30,536 Speaker 5: was there something going on there? Was there a flirtation? 621 00:32:30,596 --> 00:32:32,646 Speaker 5: Was there a thing? And, and it was fun to 622 00:32:32,666 --> 00:32:33,466 Speaker 5: write about that. 623 00:32:33,826 --> 00:32:36,206 Speaker 3: If I had to say, say it, I think that 624 00:32:36,526 --> 00:32:40,686 Speaker 3: it was unspoken, but it was like kind of a, what, 625 00:32:41,026 --> 00:32:43,526 Speaker 3: what could have been, that's the Casablanca tie. 626 00:32:43,546 --> 00:32:44,166 Speaker 5: Yeah. 627 00:32:44,226 --> 00:32:46,866 Speaker 3: You know, when Humphrey Bogart says, he was looking at 628 00:32:46,926 --> 00:32:50,236 Speaker 3: you kid to Ingrid Bergman. It's like, they go their 629 00:32:50,276 --> 00:32:53,856 Speaker 3: separate ways. They've been through the war, you know, they've 630 00:32:53,896 --> 00:32:56,336 Speaker 3: done all this, all this stuff has happened. 631 00:32:57,276 --> 00:32:59,606 Speaker 4: And, uh, We'll always have Paris. 632 00:32:59,686 --> 00:33:02,646 Speaker 3: We'll always have Paris. You got the line. We'll always 633 00:33:02,706 --> 00:33:05,856 Speaker 3: have Paris. Oh my God, thank you for that. 634 00:33:05,876 --> 00:33:09,036 Speaker 5: I remember the moment when Dan was like, Casablanca, I 635 00:33:09,056 --> 00:33:12,116 Speaker 5: think that sings well. And we were like, yeah. 636 00:33:12,216 --> 00:33:15,596 Speaker 3: It is because it has that melodic quality to the 637 00:33:15,736 --> 00:33:17,796 Speaker 3: way that it sounds when it comes out of your mouth. 638 00:33:17,816 --> 00:33:21,946 Speaker 4: Lucky you didn't watch King Kong that night. I can't 639 00:33:21,986 --> 00:33:24,386 Speaker 4: make this into a song. That's what I mean. There's 640 00:33:24,406 --> 00:33:27,886 Speaker 4: sort of like ghosts a little bit. So tell me 641 00:33:28,106 --> 00:33:30,206 Speaker 4: about There's a couple of songs I do want to 642 00:33:30,246 --> 00:33:31,686 Speaker 4: talk about. This Island. 643 00:33:32,266 --> 00:33:35,986 Speaker 5: This Island, another song about loneliness. And we wrote this 644 00:33:36,066 --> 00:33:40,306 Speaker 5: one with a great songwriter from Topanga named Nayo, who 645 00:33:40,476 --> 00:33:45,376 Speaker 5: makes beautiful records. And I remember writing this song. We 646 00:33:45,396 --> 00:33:47,996 Speaker 5: were talking about loneliness and feeling like you could do 647 00:33:48,036 --> 00:33:51,136 Speaker 5: it on your own and sort of like female empowerment. 648 00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:53,516 Speaker 5: I remember her sitting cross-legged on the floor looking up 649 00:33:53,576 --> 00:33:56,666 Speaker 5: at Sue and just really probing her and really doing 650 00:33:56,706 --> 00:34:01,056 Speaker 5: the psychoanalysis thing. I love the lyric, moored on the shore, 651 00:34:01,116 --> 00:34:03,596 Speaker 5: but I love the view of me, my loneliness, and you. 652 00:34:03,816 --> 00:34:05,446 Speaker 3: I think it was that. It was like you could 653 00:34:05,486 --> 00:34:08,686 Speaker 3: be so lonely under the same roof with your beloved 654 00:34:09,266 --> 00:34:10,946 Speaker 3: partner or spouse. 655 00:34:11,186 --> 00:34:13,706 Speaker 5: Lonely but happy. Lonely and strong. 656 00:34:13,726 --> 00:34:14,546 Speaker 2: Lonely but happy. 657 00:34:14,566 --> 00:34:18,866 Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a mix within the song. Because 658 00:34:20,426 --> 00:34:23,486 Speaker 3: you can feel like you're on an island all by yourself, 659 00:34:23,586 --> 00:34:27,766 Speaker 3: even though the person is there. It's not like. a 660 00:34:27,886 --> 00:34:31,706 Speaker 3: complete downer or anything like that, but maybe I'm missing 661 00:34:32,046 --> 00:34:32,906 Speaker 3: the part. 662 00:34:32,626 --> 00:34:35,296 Speaker 5: You were talking about. No, no, it's exactly right. Like 663 00:34:36,396 --> 00:34:41,176 Speaker 5: just being like, sort of like comfortable in your loneliness 664 00:34:41,336 --> 00:34:45,236 Speaker 5: and like realizing there was like opportunity there. And like, 665 00:34:45,296 --> 00:34:46,636 Speaker 5: what am I going to, what am I going to 666 00:34:46,656 --> 00:34:49,416 Speaker 5: step forward and do with this feeling and this sort 667 00:34:49,436 --> 00:34:51,706 Speaker 5: of how do I fill this time? How do I 668 00:34:51,746 --> 00:34:53,986 Speaker 5: fill this, you know, how do I use this feeling 669 00:34:54,026 --> 00:34:56,706 Speaker 5: and harness it and use it to push myself forward? Yeah. 670 00:34:57,746 --> 00:34:58,826 Speaker 3: Loneliness is a thing. 671 00:34:58,846 --> 00:35:00,886 Speaker 4: A related song for me is time. 672 00:35:01,166 --> 00:35:01,586 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 673 00:35:02,306 --> 00:35:04,766 Speaker 3: I know. That's a tearjerker. 674 00:35:04,786 --> 00:35:05,566 Speaker 5: Yeah. 675 00:35:05,756 --> 00:35:07,776 Speaker 3: I mean, my kids have been out of the house now. 676 00:35:07,836 --> 00:35:10,456 Speaker 3: I don't know if you have kids or what their age, yeah. 677 00:35:10,996 --> 00:35:16,116 Speaker 3: So the emptiness thing is really interesting and kind of 678 00:35:16,516 --> 00:35:21,576 Speaker 3: melancholy in its way, but it's... It's the cycle of life, 679 00:35:21,656 --> 00:35:25,306 Speaker 3: not to do the Lion King thing, but just saying, 680 00:35:25,366 --> 00:35:27,046 Speaker 3: I don't know why that popped into my head, but 681 00:35:28,146 --> 00:35:33,466 Speaker 3: it's beautiful to see them become grown humans, mature humans. 682 00:35:33,906 --> 00:35:36,986 Speaker 4: That's your job, to set them up to leave. 683 00:35:37,106 --> 00:35:38,686 Speaker 3: And I think I did a very good job. 684 00:35:39,556 --> 00:35:42,136 Speaker 5: We wrote that with a songwriter named DeJure, and I 685 00:35:42,516 --> 00:35:46,726 Speaker 5: have a almost five-year-old and a seven-year-old and he had 686 00:35:46,766 --> 00:35:48,946 Speaker 5: a six-year-old boy. And so we were talking about just 687 00:35:48,986 --> 00:35:51,626 Speaker 5: them growing up and, you know, you know, you sort 688 00:35:51,646 --> 00:35:54,276 Speaker 5: of like can't remember life before them and all of that. 689 00:35:54,796 --> 00:35:57,656 Speaker 5: And then Sue started talking about her kids being grown 690 00:35:57,736 --> 00:36:00,016 Speaker 5: and the empty nest thing. And it was just like, 691 00:36:00,476 --> 00:36:02,596 Speaker 5: I remember it was just, was crushing to think about 692 00:36:02,636 --> 00:36:05,216 Speaker 5: like this inevitable day when you're back to an empty 693 00:36:05,256 --> 00:36:06,936 Speaker 5: house and they're not there anymore. 694 00:36:06,956 --> 00:36:08,376 Speaker 3: You got such a long way to go. 695 00:36:08,436 --> 00:36:10,036 Speaker 5: We've got a long way to go, but I think 696 00:36:10,056 --> 00:36:11,826 Speaker 5: it sneaks up on you. And it was, that was a, 697 00:36:12,666 --> 00:36:15,546 Speaker 5: powerful day of, you know, just thinking about that circle 698 00:36:15,566 --> 00:36:17,246 Speaker 5: of life. It's funny how. 699 00:36:17,106 --> 00:36:20,006 Speaker 3: The, it's, it's funny how songs work. I was just 700 00:36:20,066 --> 00:36:23,966 Speaker 3: thinking there's like the joy mixed with the melancholy. There's 701 00:36:24,026 --> 00:36:28,526 Speaker 3: something about the rub, you know, I don't know. It's, 702 00:36:28,956 --> 00:36:33,416 Speaker 3: it's partly why it works in a song, isn't it? Like, yeah, 703 00:36:33,676 --> 00:36:37,416 Speaker 3: it's not that straightforward. It's a little dash of this 704 00:36:37,496 --> 00:36:38,776 Speaker 3: and a little dash of that. 705 00:36:38,796 --> 00:36:41,696 Speaker 4: I guess it's the same way you need dissonance to 706 00:36:41,736 --> 00:36:42,946 Speaker 4: make the, The melody. 707 00:36:42,986 --> 00:36:43,426 Speaker 1: Yeah. 708 00:36:43,446 --> 00:36:44,706 Speaker 5: Conflict resolution, you know. 709 00:36:44,786 --> 00:36:44,986 Speaker 2: Yeah. 710 00:36:45,006 --> 00:36:45,246 Speaker 1: Yeah. 711 00:36:45,306 --> 00:36:47,626 Speaker 3: Because what would it be if it was just all, 712 00:36:47,886 --> 00:36:50,446 Speaker 3: you know, up with people? Whatever that song. 713 00:36:50,966 --> 00:36:53,046 Speaker 4: I don't remember what that was. 714 00:36:53,066 --> 00:36:56,506 Speaker 5: I played Time for My Mom and she, you know, 715 00:36:56,626 --> 00:36:58,556 Speaker 5: totally broke down and started crying. And I looked at her. 716 00:36:58,596 --> 00:37:00,056 Speaker 5: I was like, what's wrong? She was like, that song's 717 00:37:00,096 --> 00:37:02,096 Speaker 5: not fair. And I was like, well. It's true. 718 00:37:02,416 --> 00:37:04,556 Speaker 4: It's kind of true. I have a friend who always 719 00:37:04,596 --> 00:37:07,196 Speaker 4: said his kids are a little older than mine. And 720 00:37:07,236 --> 00:37:10,276 Speaker 4: he said, having kids is the longest breakup of your life. 721 00:37:10,296 --> 00:37:10,956 Speaker 1: Yeah. 722 00:37:11,156 --> 00:37:11,396 Speaker 4: Yeah. 723 00:37:12,266 --> 00:37:16,916 Speaker 3: That's a good quote. I mean, because it's so interesting 724 00:37:16,956 --> 00:37:17,636 Speaker 3: and poetic. 725 00:37:18,716 --> 00:37:21,436 Speaker 4: You're thinking of using that in your next album, right? 726 00:37:21,476 --> 00:37:21,936 Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 727 00:37:21,996 --> 00:37:23,116 Speaker 4: It's yours. 728 00:37:23,716 --> 00:37:26,436 Speaker 5: Somebody told me that when my daughter turned six, my 729 00:37:26,476 --> 00:37:28,846 Speaker 5: older daughter turned six, they were like, all right, there's 730 00:37:28,886 --> 00:37:34,366 Speaker 5: some really depressing statistic that was like, you've already spent 90% 731 00:37:34,366 --> 00:37:36,206 Speaker 5: of the time that you're going to spend with her. 732 00:37:36,426 --> 00:37:38,666 Speaker 5: You've already done that. Because now she's going to go 733 00:37:38,706 --> 00:37:40,386 Speaker 5: to school and then she's going to move out and 734 00:37:40,406 --> 00:37:41,566 Speaker 5: then she's going to live the rest of her life. 735 00:37:41,606 --> 00:37:43,706 Speaker 5: But you got to be there for like every moment 736 00:37:43,726 --> 00:37:46,686 Speaker 5: of those first years. And it just like floored me. 737 00:37:46,706 --> 00:37:48,826 Speaker 5: I think we were talking about that statistic too when 738 00:37:48,866 --> 00:37:51,206 Speaker 5: we wrote this song. It was like, you know, she's 739 00:37:51,226 --> 00:37:53,976 Speaker 5: six years old and I've already, most of the time 740 00:37:53,996 --> 00:37:55,196 Speaker 5: I'm going to spend with her has passed. 741 00:37:55,356 --> 00:37:57,756 Speaker 3: But I'm here to attest to the fact that it's 742 00:37:57,836 --> 00:37:59,316 Speaker 3: kind of great too. 743 00:37:59,376 --> 00:37:59,956 Speaker 2: Yeah. 744 00:38:00,136 --> 00:38:05,356 Speaker 3: When they've done all their... they're all the school stuff 745 00:38:05,396 --> 00:38:09,026 Speaker 3: and then they've moved on to jobs actually. And they're 746 00:38:09,066 --> 00:38:12,866 Speaker 3: adult humans and it's kind of good. I don't worry 747 00:38:12,926 --> 00:38:15,646 Speaker 3: about it. I'm here to tell you that you can 748 00:38:15,706 --> 00:38:21,236 Speaker 3: feel really proud. And if, and especially if they've been 749 00:38:21,296 --> 00:38:24,896 Speaker 3: raised in a way that was cool and, and they 750 00:38:24,956 --> 00:38:28,496 Speaker 3: enjoyed it, they enjoyed their childhood with, even with all the, 751 00:38:29,616 --> 00:38:32,476 Speaker 3: you know, once they're in high school and there's girlfriends 752 00:38:32,496 --> 00:38:35,216 Speaker 3: or boyfriends, you know, you know, the breakups and all 753 00:38:35,256 --> 00:38:37,836 Speaker 3: the things that happen. It's just the, it's the part 754 00:38:37,856 --> 00:38:38,716 Speaker 3: of the whole journey. 755 00:38:39,046 --> 00:38:41,846 Speaker 4: See, I would think being a girl dating your sons 756 00:38:42,046 --> 00:38:42,446 Speaker 4: would be. 757 00:38:42,466 --> 00:38:46,046 Speaker 3: A girl dating, wait, a girl dating my sons. 758 00:38:46,226 --> 00:38:46,406 Speaker 4: Yeah. 759 00:38:46,426 --> 00:38:46,566 Speaker 2: Yeah. 760 00:38:46,806 --> 00:38:48,726 Speaker 4: You'd be like, well, I can't be cooler than your mother. 761 00:38:48,886 --> 00:38:49,166 Speaker 1: So. 762 00:38:50,106 --> 00:38:52,926 Speaker 3: No, it's not like, I'm so, I'm so happy that, 763 00:38:54,046 --> 00:38:55,416 Speaker 3: I mean, You'd be happy. 764 00:38:55,436 --> 00:38:57,456 Speaker 4: I think it would be tough for them. Like, oh, 765 00:38:57,556 --> 00:39:00,706 Speaker 4: your mom's a rock star. Great. 766 00:39:00,966 --> 00:39:01,426 Speaker 5: It's true. 767 00:39:02,346 --> 00:39:04,406 Speaker 4: I did want to ask you about Fool. 768 00:39:05,526 --> 00:39:05,606 Speaker 1: Oh. 769 00:39:06,856 --> 00:39:09,136 Speaker 3: What would you say? What's your first thought? 770 00:39:10,056 --> 00:39:12,356 Speaker 5: We wrote that with the great Jesse Harris. 771 00:39:12,616 --> 00:39:14,136 Speaker 3: It's a very suave song. 772 00:39:14,156 --> 00:39:16,156 Speaker 5: It's a suave song, like the suave songwriter he is. 773 00:39:16,176 --> 00:39:16,716 Speaker 4: Like a bossa nova. 774 00:39:16,816 --> 00:39:17,196 Speaker 1: Yeah. 775 00:39:17,296 --> 00:39:20,296 Speaker 5: Sue just immediately, when we got there, was listening to 776 00:39:20,496 --> 00:39:22,936 Speaker 5: all those great Dionne Warwick, Burt Bacharach songs. 777 00:39:23,116 --> 00:39:25,676 Speaker 3: I grew up on that stuff. That's another thing that 778 00:39:25,696 --> 00:39:26,356 Speaker 3: I learned to sing. 779 00:39:26,596 --> 00:39:27,676 Speaker 5: And she was like, do you think we can write 780 00:39:27,716 --> 00:39:30,656 Speaker 5: a song like these? And I was like, well, no, 781 00:39:30,816 --> 00:39:33,556 Speaker 5: but yes, we could try. So that was just sort 782 00:39:33,576 --> 00:39:37,336 Speaker 5: of a direct... Maybe that's the only song on the 783 00:39:37,356 --> 00:39:40,306 Speaker 5: record that was like, let's try to emulate this style 784 00:39:40,346 --> 00:39:40,826 Speaker 5: in this song. 785 00:39:40,846 --> 00:39:41,826 Speaker 1: A Dionne Warwick song. 786 00:39:41,846 --> 00:39:44,346 Speaker 3: Those Burt Bacharach records, I still have them. 787 00:39:44,386 --> 00:39:46,146 Speaker 5: And the arrangements are unbelievable. 788 00:39:46,206 --> 00:39:47,006 Speaker 3: They're unreal. 789 00:39:47,026 --> 00:39:47,186 Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. 790 00:39:47,926 --> 00:39:48,526 Speaker 5: Yeah, that was trumpet. 791 00:39:48,606 --> 00:39:50,866 Speaker 4: And you were like, yeah, they always have good trumpet parts. 792 00:39:50,886 --> 00:39:52,886 Speaker 5: They always have really good trumpet parts. I was excited. 793 00:39:52,986 --> 00:39:53,646 Speaker 3: Oh, you're right. 794 00:39:53,666 --> 00:39:57,686 Speaker 5: I very embarrassingly, as a trumpet player, thought Burt Bacharach 795 00:39:57,826 --> 00:40:00,386 Speaker 5: was a flugelhorn player for like the first 15 years 796 00:40:00,406 --> 00:40:01,796 Speaker 5: of my life. Really? Because everybody would be like, oh, 797 00:40:01,856 --> 00:40:04,156 Speaker 5: do this, you know, can you play a Burt Bacharach thing? 798 00:40:04,176 --> 00:40:05,976 Speaker 5: And I knew what that meant, and I had heard 799 00:40:05,996 --> 00:40:07,796 Speaker 5: that music, but I just assumed, like, how could he 800 00:40:07,836 --> 00:40:09,456 Speaker 5: write these melodies and not be a flugelhorn player? 801 00:40:09,596 --> 00:40:10,856 Speaker 4: I do want to ask you about the last song 802 00:40:10,896 --> 00:40:13,316 Speaker 4: on the album. Oh, what's... What Are Wings For? 803 00:40:13,776 --> 00:40:18,316 Speaker 3: Oh, okay. That's one... CJ and I wrote with Edie Brickell. 804 00:40:19,776 --> 00:40:20,956 Speaker 4: So how did that come about? 805 00:40:21,356 --> 00:40:25,006 Speaker 5: I work with Edie a lot, and we're writing a musical, 806 00:40:25,226 --> 00:40:28,126 Speaker 5: and she loves writing, you know, for theater and for 807 00:40:28,146 --> 00:40:30,906 Speaker 5: the stage. And we were working on this other project, 808 00:40:31,226 --> 00:40:32,766 Speaker 5: and at the end of it, when I left, she's like, 809 00:40:32,806 --> 00:40:34,826 Speaker 5: bring me more musicals. And I was like, I'm never 810 00:40:34,846 --> 00:40:36,496 Speaker 5: going to come up with an idea for a musical. 811 00:40:36,546 --> 00:40:39,336 Speaker 5: But sure, if anything comes up. And I was talking 812 00:40:39,356 --> 00:40:41,536 Speaker 5: with Sue about her novel and stuff, and she was like, 813 00:40:42,116 --> 00:40:43,916 Speaker 5: I feel like I should just turn this into a musical. 814 00:40:43,936 --> 00:40:45,856 Speaker 5: And I was like, oh. Ding, ding. I do have 815 00:40:45,896 --> 00:40:49,276 Speaker 5: an idea for a musical. And that process was incredible. 816 00:40:49,536 --> 00:40:52,876 Speaker 5: So we went down to the ranch they have in Texas. 817 00:40:53,276 --> 00:40:57,776 Speaker 5: And Edie is this incredible improviser. She improvises these songs. 818 00:40:57,836 --> 00:41:02,666 Speaker 5: It's just mind-blowing. You can't really explain it because no 819 00:41:02,686 --> 00:41:05,386 Speaker 5: one would believe you. But she literally just will improvise 820 00:41:05,426 --> 00:41:07,986 Speaker 5: a full song. So we had this great process where 821 00:41:08,006 --> 00:41:09,786 Speaker 5: I would sit at a piano and Sue. 822 00:41:09,606 --> 00:41:09,886 Speaker 3: Had her novel. 823 00:41:09,906 --> 00:41:10,406 Speaker 5: Had the book. 824 00:41:10,766 --> 00:41:12,606 Speaker 3: And I was just, yeah, you go. 825 00:41:12,686 --> 00:41:13,186 Speaker 1: No, no, no. 826 00:41:13,226 --> 00:41:15,816 Speaker 5: You would earmark different passages. parts of the book that 827 00:41:15,856 --> 00:41:18,246 Speaker 5: could be like inspirations for songs. So Sue would just 828 00:41:18,326 --> 00:41:21,386 Speaker 5: read page after page after page of the novel. And 829 00:41:21,426 --> 00:41:25,386 Speaker 5: in a certain moment, Edie would go, stop. And she 830 00:41:25,426 --> 00:41:26,706 Speaker 5: had a song in her head. 831 00:41:27,126 --> 00:41:28,496 Speaker 3: All written already in her head. 832 00:41:28,506 --> 00:41:30,076 Speaker 5: Already written in her head. That was the. 833 00:41:29,956 --> 00:41:34,116 Speaker 3: Freakish and brilliant thing. Like it was, it blew my mind. 834 00:41:34,136 --> 00:41:35,556 Speaker 3: I was like, she just channeled some. 835 00:41:35,636 --> 00:41:38,776 Speaker 5: This song is a full on Edie Burkell improv. Wow. 836 00:41:39,136 --> 00:41:42,206 Speaker 5: With me kind of playing chords based on Sue reading 837 00:41:42,246 --> 00:41:45,856 Speaker 5: this novel and And I remember we finished sort of 838 00:41:46,076 --> 00:41:48,876 Speaker 5: hearing Edie improvise the song. I looked over at Sue 839 00:41:48,896 --> 00:41:49,976 Speaker 5: and she's just sobbing. 840 00:41:50,796 --> 00:41:54,156 Speaker 3: It was really amazing. 841 00:41:53,656 --> 00:41:56,476 Speaker 5: To witness it. It was incredible. Because she hadn't read 842 00:41:56,506 --> 00:41:57,506 Speaker 5: the book. 843 00:41:58,406 --> 00:41:59,766 Speaker 3: She hadn't read it, which is fine. 844 00:42:00,146 --> 00:42:03,706 Speaker 5: No, but she was encountering this inspiration like in real 845 00:42:03,766 --> 00:42:06,766 Speaker 5: time and having it feed her imagination and just going. 846 00:42:07,106 --> 00:42:10,006 Speaker 3: Me reading a few passages that might work for a 847 00:42:10,386 --> 00:42:12,246 Speaker 3: song moment that you would want. 848 00:42:12,536 --> 00:42:14,766 Speaker 5: Watching her process is unlike anything. 849 00:42:14,786 --> 00:42:14,886 Speaker 2: Okay. 850 00:42:14,906 --> 00:42:17,426 Speaker 4: Have you buried the lead here? Are you turning your 851 00:42:17,446 --> 00:42:18,686 Speaker 4: book into a musical? 852 00:42:19,566 --> 00:42:22,426 Speaker 3: Well, it's on the, it's, it's, it's a plan. 853 00:42:22,466 --> 00:42:23,886 Speaker 5: Yeah. It's a plan. 854 00:42:24,446 --> 00:42:28,296 Speaker 4: So this is, it was a song written from the 855 00:42:28,356 --> 00:42:29,756 Speaker 4: character in the book. Yeah. 856 00:42:29,776 --> 00:42:30,356 Speaker 5: Yeah. 857 00:42:30,376 --> 00:42:31,256 Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah. 858 00:42:31,696 --> 00:42:33,756 Speaker 5: It's sort of the, the book is kind of a, 859 00:42:34,456 --> 00:42:38,416 Speaker 5: you know, redemption story where she, the protagonist is a 860 00:42:38,526 --> 00:42:40,486 Speaker 5: one hit wonder. And then she finally like, you know, uh. 861 00:42:41,916 --> 00:42:45,096 Speaker 3: Oh, and the person, I don't want to say it's 862 00:42:45,136 --> 00:42:47,416 Speaker 3: based on Prince or something, but it's a guy who's 863 00:42:47,456 --> 00:42:53,156 Speaker 3: like a huge icon in the music world. And she 864 00:42:53,236 --> 00:42:56,176 Speaker 3: had only ever covered his song because she revered him. 865 00:42:56,196 --> 00:42:58,496 Speaker 5: So it's kind of a redemption moment where she's like, 866 00:42:58,536 --> 00:43:01,946 Speaker 5: this is my time. She sheds that baggage and stands 867 00:43:01,966 --> 00:43:02,286 Speaker 5: on her own. 868 00:43:02,306 --> 00:43:04,206 Speaker 3: She finally writes the song that is her own song, 869 00:43:04,246 --> 00:43:08,926 Speaker 3: not the cover of the Prince song or whatever. 870 00:43:08,586 --> 00:43:09,146 Speaker 5: It would be. Okay. 871 00:43:09,386 --> 00:43:13,156 Speaker 4: But when you're... out there selling this musical, mention Prince. 872 00:43:13,436 --> 00:43:13,716 Speaker 1: I will. 873 00:43:14,496 --> 00:43:16,256 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming in. This is a 874 00:43:16,316 --> 00:43:19,106 Speaker 4: wonderful album. It's a wonderful sounding album. Thank you so 875 00:43:19,146 --> 00:43:19,756 Speaker 4: much for coming in. 876 00:43:20,186 --> 00:43:20,916 Speaker 3: It's our treat. 877 00:43:23,776 --> 00:43:26,066 Speaker 2: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rhodes with 878 00:43:26,126 --> 00:43:29,306 Speaker 2: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer 879 00:43:29,446 --> 00:43:33,226 Speaker 2: is Ben Talladay. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 880 00:43:33,526 --> 00:43:35,946 Speaker 2: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 881 00:43:35,966 --> 00:43:39,516 Speaker 2: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 882 00:43:39,536 --> 00:43:42,236 Speaker 2: that offers bonus content and ad-free listening. 883 00:43:42,216 --> 00:43:43,156 Speaker 5: For $ 4. 99 a month. 884 00:43:43,456 --> 00:43:46,796 Speaker 2: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcast Subscriptions. And if 885 00:43:46,816 --> 00:43:48,936 Speaker 2: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and 886 00:43:48,976 --> 00:43:51,426 Speaker 2: review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by 887 00:43:51,466 --> 00:43:53,026 Speaker 2: Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richmond.