WEBVTT - EP 124: The Sammy "The Bull" Gravano Episode 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:05.720 When I wrote, y'all all across the USC conton Watts 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:10.680 Bank to l A, come on the California the Valley. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.160 We represent that kind of county. So if you're keeping 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:16.840 it Reil on your side of your town, you tune 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:22.120 into Gangster Chronicles Gangster Chronic Goals. He gonna tell you 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.479 how we go. If I lie, my nose will girl 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.720 like Pinocchio. We're gonna tell you the truth and nothing 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.600 but the truth. Gangster Chronicals. This is not your average show. 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.680 You're now tuned into the Reil m c A. Bick, 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:48.080 James and Bi Staires from the streets. Hello, Welcome to 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.960 the Gangster Chronicles podcast, the production of My Heart Radio 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.120 and Black Effect Podcast Network. Make sure you download the 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.600 I Heart Apple and subscribe to the Gangster Chronicles. For 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.240 my Apple users, hit the purple mica on your front screen. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.720 Subscribe to the Chronicles to leave a five star rate 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.360 in the comment. We like to welcome everyone to another 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:08.280 episode of the Gangster Chronicles podcast. Nombout my parties, Jack, 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.600 Jill and you know America for the long the longest 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:17.080 time has been in factuated with gangsterism, whether from crips 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:21.199 blood to the Italian mafia, and today we have one. 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.480 You can almost say the face of the mafia, right 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.720 he say the bull. That's the pleasure, is all Lars. 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.080 I'm gonna start off the top and just get it 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:38.640 out the way. We want to say the epitome of gangster. Yeah, definitely, League, 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:40.880 and I have you and James in the same room, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:46.040 as you know, I think you guys that I don't 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:58.240 listen comparison. No, Kobe and Jordan here, don't compare us that. No, 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.760 listen what I'm saying, bro, Your first melodies are a 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:02.960 lot of like you know from you know me looking 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.520 at him, you know some of the way you were 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:06.640 raised and came up, some of the principles you had. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.200 You gotta see a lot of the same ideology. So 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:15.880 we had a little better looking than him. But you know, 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:18.160 I want to get this question off the way because 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.399 I filter your pain when you heard the taps from Giancatti. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.000 What was going through your mind when you heard him 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.359 on the wire taps? Well, first of all, anybody could 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.120 get caught on the white attack, so it didn't bother 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.000 me too much. It was stupid. He talked about things 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.400 we did years ago. When you get away with the crime. 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:42.080 You don't go bulliting about years later. And but he 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.799 did and he got caught. That didn't bother me too much. 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.080 There was a lot of lines on those tapes, and 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.160 that bothered me a little bit. I didn't understand why 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:57.079 there was a lot of complaining about me. But towards 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:02.080 the end, what he did is he met with the lawyers. 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.000 The tapes were so bad. All the lawyers, the biggest 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.320 lawyers in New York said, you can't beat this case. 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:13.200 The tapes of plan his day. You're dead. Look to 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.280 take a play, look to do something. So he devised 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:23.320 an idea of what to do, is that he was 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:27.440 going to use the tapes control the lawyers to tell 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:33.720 the jury is you could hear the tapes. John got 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:38.720 his complaining against about this animal. It's him killing everybody 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.960 taking over doing this. John is complaining about him, hoping 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.800 that the jury would convict me and set him free. 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.520 So when this idea came up being him that I 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.520 was in prison whatever already eleven months waiting for trial, 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.880 I said, John, is that what you really want to do. 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:06.400 The cops, the ages, they're our enemy, but they're doing 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:08.520 their job. They gotta put the bad guys away were 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.560 the bad guys. That's their job. Me and you were 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.880 tight with their brothers, were friends. You're backing them up 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.480 to me. That's a rap move. So I told him, 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:23.479 you really want to do that? And he told me, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:27.200 saying me, you gotta take the weight. It falls like that. 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:31.839 It looks like that. I'm the boss, and the boss 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:36.520 is gotta be free. You're sure you wanted others? Yeah, 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.440 and I got in touch with the government. I flipped 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:42.240 that flip side and went my own way. Basically, that's 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:47.320 what happened. I've been arrested all my life, murders, double murders, 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.120 somebody committed, somebody didn't commit, never flipped, and they always 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:56.520 asked me that I hated that, but that I was 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:01.920 so close. It was like my brother, my closest person 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:06.599 to me, just threw me to the dogs. I wouldn't 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:13.440 let it happen. So when when he tried to pretty 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.400 much force you to get you to take the whole 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.280 rap and he get away with it, so that made 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.560 you feel like I'm nothing but a pond. Now you're 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:26.000 using me. So that makes you feel like, Okay, what 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.280 if I flipped the strip and say, funk that I 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.559 ain't taking a rap for that, great great point, great point, 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.800 because I'm not on the tapes talking. He's on the 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.200 taps talking. So if you want me to flip the script, 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:44.760 I would say that easily. Brother, you're on the fucking tape, 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.600 your care talking. You want me to take the fucking weight. 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.080 You should be telling me, Sammy, you're not even on 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:57.360 these tapes. You could beat this fucking case. Bill gets 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.080 a separation, separate trials. If you can beat the case, 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.320 it ain't on them fucking taps talking about it. I am, 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.640 so you should take the way. If it was me, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.880 I would take the weight. I'm on the tape, I'm 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:15.080 doing the talking. I'm the one that created this indictment. 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.920 I'm gonna cut you loose. You loose if you can. 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.920 It's like they're the enemy, not us. Whoever wins wins 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.599 amongst us. We gotta fight for each other. But I 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.560 can cut you loose. After the case, I cut you loose, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.240 not that I'm gonna may help. The government can pick 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.320 you so I could get out. I think that self 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.640 explains everything. And then some people say it's full of ship. 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.400 But there's so many documents, so many people who flipped 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:49.760 after this and it's it's documented. It's history now, it's 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:55.080 documented history. So you know that's the thing where John Gotti. 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.159 Now do I hate him? People saying there's that new thing? 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.000 If he was out and now everybody to kill I 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:03.880 should have made the fucking app But I don't hate him. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.080 We will attach that the hip. I feel sorry how 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:12.280 he died like a door him prisoner. We played chess. 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.040 He was playing checkers and I played chess. I checked 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:19.800 me in. He made the wrong fucking moves. I was 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.960 never pieced all my life. My raptur is as long 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:29.640 as anybody's. And they always asked me, Sammy, will you 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:35.320 get no time? And even he was in, I cooperated. 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:42.720 I been for the last year's ten different cases. I've 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:49.160 been a witness for the defense against the government to 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:54.040 get people out. What guy cooperates him does that too. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.200 They got to hate me for that. So when I 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.280 got in trouble in Arizona with an ecstacy case taking 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:07.200 over Arizona Ecstasy, they smash me. I lent them money 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.119 to buy exstacy and I got the twenty fucking years. 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.960 It was payback for the government. We got him and 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.440 I got slammed. Even in that case, they asked me 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.600 to text like it's her. The paper said absolutely not. 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:23.320 I don't want to use the language I didn't use. 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.880 But I had said, no, Gus, the chronicles use it, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.320 you can use it. That's what the people love, right. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.719 So that's the way it is. That's what happened with 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.559 John Gotti. Stuff like that. So we aren't supposed to 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:41.240 have no heavy ship. But no, go ahead, bro, but 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.480 I know normally gonna ask me no bad questions because 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:49.760 he goes I got a gun on little thing. He 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:58.199 already told me, told them when they pulled it. I 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.680 pulled in the parking lot, I said, now let's send 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:06.040 me run. Before I started my daughter, he was this 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.960 big guy. And then when I sit him talking to you, 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.600 I'm like, I'm not gonna meet my gun. Yeah, but 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.040 you know the thing is with saying me like he 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:19.960 was just saying that, Um, you guys are so much 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:24.520 identical from the up bringing standpoint, and you know, something's 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:26.640 real interest. And I was having this thought the other night. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.000 I said, you know, a few twists in your youth, 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:32.679 you may have turned off to be one of the 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.439 biggest Fortune five hundred leaders in this country. You know 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.079 what I mean, who would say that she wouldn't have 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.040 been the next you know Bill Gates or you know, 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.240 big captain of industry or whatever. And you grew up 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.960 in Vincent Hurst, Brooklyn, right bank. How was your youth 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.760 coming up? Well, what really started to be off that 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.559 wrong path is I'm just section So I have a 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.120 back then when I was a kid, and to a 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.200 lot of years ago, they didn't even know what that was. 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.800 They just showed you a fucking stupid that's it. And 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:06.880 then who wished any timeline? So I'm growing up. The 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.080 most I got was an eighth grade education and I 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.000 was not quit school. They threw me up. They made 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:16.199 my parents come in. If you don't sign him out, 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:20.719 he's gonna you know, it's bullshit jail for youth. So 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.480 that started me off. I was in a gang and 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.960 the a's in the ice Brooklyn. It was swamped with 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.119 mafia dudes and they were my idol looking up at them. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.680 They were the man um and I grew that way. 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.880 When I was nineteen, I got drafted into the military 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:43.080 during the Vietnam War. I was trained to kill. I 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.800 never went to Vietnam. Um, you needed a certain amount 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.560 of time. When my name came up, only had eight 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.640 months left. They said no, you have to have a year, 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:54.480 and I never went. I came out. I hooked up 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.959 with a gang right away. I was on the ramps. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:06.800 Life life, gangy life was a bunch of stupid kids. Stealing, 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:11.080 caused stilling. There's still in that fights all kinds of ship. 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.240 It wasn't that vicious of a game. We four it 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:16.920 would kick ass. We didn't kill nobody, but we didn't 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.160 shoot people. But it was as tough as it could be. 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.199 So I got out of the on me at twenty 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.320 one years old, and I was back in the game 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.520 at twenty three years old. You couldn't do nothing in 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.880 my neighborhood if you weren't connected, Three or four or 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.599 five guys would come to your row. You opening that 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.960 club fucking like at the piece, so you couldn't below. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.120 So at twenty three years old, I hooked up with 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.760 the Combo family as an associate. I liked the guy 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:49.640 showed his spireau tough guy X fighter, and I liked 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.559 what he said. I'm never gonna write to you. I've 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.360 never been a backstad. Whatever I answer you to do, 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.360 I've already done, and I'll do it with you. So 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.679 it wasn't somebody given owners. It was music for my 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:06.120 fucking ears. Even to belong to a family. Music to 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:10.480 my ears. I had a good mother, father, legitimate people. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:12.920 I'm far from stupid. When I was in the in 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:17.319 the mafia, it's common knowledge. I owned six construction companies. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:19.840 I mean I had the power of the mafia. I 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:25.800 used the unions. I did all kinds of things black. 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:30.280 I just asked me about our relationship with black people. 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:33.839 In the movies, they portray it one way. The reality 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.840 is me and the people around me, and the people 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.840 I knew were like this. They dealt numbers on a 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:44.679 small land. We doubt numbers and the bigger and we 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.400 were the bank. So when they went to you know, 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.240 get rid of the too much work on too much 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.840 money on the number, they would give it to Ower Banking. 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:58.680 There was dropping beld with blacks. We did everything with 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.080 that not a fact. I'm gonna give you a quick 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:05.920 story title my captain and I wasn't made yet. I'm 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.680 still just a tough kid. With the game being no family, 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.640 I would switched from the Columbus to the game. You know, 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.080 he said, there's a smooth little church on the block 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:19.080 where the black people go. Yeah. Yeah, the kids are 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.520 breaking balls over that. Go over to read these kids 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:27.800 the riot act them all. They're good people. And I 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:31.040 went down. I told to the kids. The reverend or 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.960 a priest whatever he was, gets in touch with me, Sammy, thanks, 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.559 thank you so much. I heard what you're dad, this 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.560 and that the other thing. And he invited me to 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:47.000 go to church. I never waited to about charge, but 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:48.600 he was a nice guy. I said, let me go. 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.120 I willed. I went there that day. They had, you know, 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:57.240 a mask's like everybody else. And it was cool. And 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.240 I left and I was shaking his hand goodbye, and 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.920 he says, if you like to make a donation, we 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.240 got a football team. They're all black. Back then it 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:11.760 was separated. If you like to make a donation. I 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:13.920 had just previously made a score. I had a park 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:18.040 for momy. I said, yea, I'll make a donation. I said, 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.280 what are you gonna buy with it? He says, football. Yeah, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.520 they don't have outfits. They don't have this, they don't 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:27.240 have that. How much does it cost for the whole 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:31.080 thing to buy all of them uniforms? And stuff agetting 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.160 the number. It wasn't la much. It was a number, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.480 but dock then it wasn't a big number. What it 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:42.760 would mean now? I gave it to and uh. Title 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.400 taught me the difference in caring about people and what 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.440 they're like and what they do. It must have been 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.680 a week after that. I'm on the corner with my friends. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.040 A car pulls up. Four or five six big black 0:14:56.040 --> 0:15:00.560 guys got out. Hey, Samy, we got let it. I 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.120 don't know what the funk that was. It came over 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.320 and this guy says, you took care of our uniforms. 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.840 Chopolin told me, I mean, don't you didn't make a 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.040 donation you we could. We all got new uniforms and 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.640 we could play anybody ever Fox which you need somebody 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:26.040 give me a call, okay. I shook his head, went away. 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:30.880 But that's what growing up to us. It wasn't like 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.880 the movie. They were part of us in a neighborhood. Now, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.560 of course, there was some racism hearing it, and people 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.600 thought a certain way, but that's everything. When Italians came in, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:44.640 they didn't like Italians. Some people don't like Italians. Some 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.520 people don't like black some people don't like Jews. Some 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:53.000 people don't like something that exists. But the biggest racism 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:54.880 I ever saw in my life is when I went 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.800 into the military. I knew about it in New York, 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.000 you know, there's mad all that blue ship. But when 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:02.760 I went in and in the first place, I went 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.760 with the four Tacks in South Carolina, in the Sifour, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:09.480 I've seen racism like I never seen in my life. 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.600 And uh I even told story. I did a video 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.920 about it. There was a guy from the Bronx. He 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.560 was a black guy, and we had KP dooty, so 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:23.600 went online and went serving there's big long spoons. Fucking 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.360 hillbillies came. Why. I hear him telling him the black guy, 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.640 hey boy, do this, Hey boy. I knew that would 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.320 bought him, so look didn't seem to bought him at all. 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.880 They came to me and guy put out a track 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.160 and I would say, serving beans or something, and I'm 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.600 putting it in his thing. That's tripping over and I stopped. 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.840 Hey boy, when I'll tell you to stop, that's when 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.480 you stopped. It's calling me boy now and he throws 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.280 all the fucking food on the count and I whappered 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.440 right in the fucking head, the double kid. The guy 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.080 behind him is his frindal. He hits me. They had 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.200 metal tracks almost not me over black eye dropped right 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.480 the funk over side phone blows. I get my senses. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:06.280 I jumped over me and him a fucking fright and 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:10.800 have to join. We're on the MP's call, sitting on 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:17.000 the floor and uh, big guy comes in, big black guy, 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:23.720 big heavy set black guy. You like helping black people. Boy, Now, 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.720 I wasn't stupid. He thought I was helping the black guy, 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:29.240 who wasn't that way at all. The black guy was 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.040 helping being so I took advantage of that. So I 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.680 said that when we from New York and we think 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.080 a little different, and he went, that means So I 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.800 got away. The black guy said and said, you used 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:47.159 that situ. So I mean, I don't know. You know, 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.920 you see these mafia movement and stuff, and uh, it's 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.119 really not that way, not in my neighborhood, not in 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.400 my lifetime. We had good relationships with them. I did 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.200 time with flat hat Nickels. I talked to a bout 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.960 him in the video. A sweetheart of a guy that's 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:10.080 a big time games, a big time. My My question 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:15.200 is um, what what was the transition that you went 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.280 like you said he was part of the Colombo family, 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.600 being went to the game, being on family. Why was 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:25.879 the transition the transitions they was, they started using me 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.639 more and more. The boss of this through a captain 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.960 comment in Persico, send him for me all the time. 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:38.320 Shorty's brother Ralph had a son, and he gets into 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.919 an argument when his brother, Shorty, why the fund you 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.320 keep taking Sam of there? I want my son to 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.440 go there. So they opened the books and he gets 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.639 made I want my son, not him, and surely said, listen, 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:52.920 I ain't brand him there. He's asking family and he's 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:57.879 doing whatever the funk he's told. So how to shut 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.440 me down? How to stop this rising starts? He makes 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.240 up this fucking Bulson story about a guy who was 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:09.000 with us who got killed, bumped into his wife in 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.840 a place where I was with seven eight guys a 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:14.560 week or two after he was killed in a in 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.880 a in a bank price and I saw that when 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:22.360 I got it, and it's annoyed to share. The abused 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:27.040 a little bit, and uh he brought it back that 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.639 I abused huh and hit huh because I wanted to 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.719 have sex when I was human though he twisting the story. 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:37.000 But he didn't realize when he twisted the story that 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.400 there was five, six seven guys there in the vote 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:44.080 with me when it happened. So when I went home, 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.879 I was married a ready. They he called out my 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.280 wife and his head. You know her husband is dead. 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:54.639 He tried to bang Ralph free wrong his wife. So 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.160 when I got home, I said, this safe is very technical. 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:03.160 Tell me exactly. He said, that's exactly what he said. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:04.960 I got a gun and I went to this house. 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.000 I was gonna killing run at the blow away, but 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.760 he wasn't home. And when I turned around to go 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.920 back to my car had to come behind me by 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.959 my ass. She saw it and she told him. So 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.520 they knew where I went there to kill him. When 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:26.480 I was called in, they talked to me that the 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:28.800 same we're gonna do. I told him the story the 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.080 best I could, and I said I was gonna kill him. 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:36.360 Told what he did. They gave me right, Actually, bosses 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.720 gave me right. I said, what he did, you did 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:42.119 the right fucking thing, but not in his house in 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:44.639 front of his wife. I said, I was born in 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:48.359 that area, but I was gonna kill him. So he said, 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.119 he's short. His brother with we're not can allowed us. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.760 We know we can't keep us together. So there's people 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:01.960 talking for you from the Gambino family. Bosses up on top, 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:07.119 and decision was switching. They come from the Colombo family 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.240 into that get a family, and that's how I wind 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.920 up with this old man title captain. And the man 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:17.200 was to me, he actually looked like my father was 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.840 the shortest my father, and he was a sweetheart, and 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:21.960 it to me he was my father something like he 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:28.480 was well respected. Um that don't bother you. Like, loyalty 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.040 is supposed to be everything. You know what I'm saying, 0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.160 and I think listening to you and and the way 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:38.639 I lived my life, I believe loyalty is everything. You 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:42.080 will go far with loyalty. But then you have people 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:46.200 that hate or resent what you're doing and how other 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:49.399 people perceive you. So now they started to hate you, 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:54.160 Like I got this a lot, But did you ever 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:57.840 feel like they've wanted you out because of who you 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.120 was and the things that you did? And not only 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.840 didn't did they want to be where you was at 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.280 but and and you was in a way pretty much 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:12.320 of them coming a lot, So did you feel like that. 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.359 There was no loyalty with these people, and now I 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:19.520 gotta be a different way. I didn't feel that with everybody. 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:26.399 I felt it with certain people. When you're betraying me, 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:29.280 I'll betraying. I'll do any how fuckings are killing and 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:32.560 do anything to come at you. But if you show 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:34.639 me loyalty, and there was a lot of loyal I 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:36.680 don't want to put people down. There was a ton 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:41.000 of loyal people, and I always showed respect and loyalty 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:45.080 everything I've done in my life. That's how I've gotten respect. 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.720 When I started doing this social media stuff, when it 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:52.800 at a prison four years ago, I said, everybody's gonna 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.399 break my ass off sucking remarks. Bullshit that happens a 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.840 little bit everybody in their mother I got a naming 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:05.240 nine point two percent positive ready one and people from 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:07.280 New York, I won't mention Name's going to help the 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:12.040 people and get in touch with me. Italian guys, Mafia 0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:15.840 guys were still mafia guys, Black guys, Hispanic guys. Guys. 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:20.399 I did time in prison. I mean, so I feel 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:23.639 as people getting in touch with me who I was 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:25.920 from the forty fifty years ago. How bit if a guy, 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:29.000 could you have but been if guys forty years ago 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:31.640 called you up now I didn't know the whole story, 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:34.400 and they saying me, how you feel that I ain't 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:38.320 doing I'm watching your videos. I'm watching yourself come down. 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.639 I did a couple of interviews with what the hell 0:23:42.760 --> 0:23:48.120 is his name? That the black guyed fat school batman, 0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.119 and I was asked to do that. I did it 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:59.600 with pistol pete, you know, and every time I was asked, helped. 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:03.040 That's what I do. But if you're kind of at 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:07.439 me sideways, bro, I told guys in prison, I'm not 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:09.960 a big guy, a small guy physically. I'll fight like 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:12.439 a backstad but I'm small. But I told guys in 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:14.520 prison when I got into big arguments with a guy 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:18.400 real big, I'm telling you killed me, motherfucker, because I'm 0:24:18.400 --> 0:24:21.520 telling you what I'll do. I'm not taking this fucking 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:25.560 b I'll come back tonight when you're sweeping. I'll stick 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:31.880 a fucking shanking your fucking trunk. I'll guarantee you. And uh, 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:36.399 that's my philosophy. I treat people good. I respect people. 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:40.080 We'll talk about black people, my granddaughters by by racial 0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:46.199 Uh shold my daughter. My shows. A black guy, I 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:50.120 would say, hey, people get out. I welcomed him. They 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:53.760 named Dave. He's pretty well a little black guy. So 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:56.800 I don't do anything when any of that bull shooting 0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:00.360 out against people. I tell people. You know a lot 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:03.320 of people say, we'll stop talking to kids. I'm not 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:05.840