WEBVTT - RAYE

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin Raised, an English pop singer songwriter whose debut album

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<v Speaker 1>My twenty first Century Blues snagged Album of the Year

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<v Speaker 1>at this year's BRIT Awards, but that was just one

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<v Speaker 1>of six total awards she took home that evening. For Ray,

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<v Speaker 1>who at twenty six, has already survived in tumultuous rides

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<v Speaker 1>through the music industry, the evening was a complete coup.

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<v Speaker 1>Ray started writing songs as a young girl growing up

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<v Speaker 1>in South London. By seventeen, she signed her first record

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<v Speaker 1>deal with Polydor Records and worked for the next seven

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<v Speaker 1>years as a songwriter. While writing songs for artists like Beyonce,

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<v Speaker 1>John Legend and Rihanna, Ray was also writing her own songs,

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<v Speaker 1>which her label refused to release. She was eventually able

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<v Speaker 1>to leave Polydor and in twenty twenty three independently released

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<v Speaker 1>her debut album to heaps of critical acclaim, kicked off

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<v Speaker 1>by her viral TikTok powered hit Escapism. Ray's vulnerability on

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<v Speaker 1>her album about her own struggles with self esteem, substance abuse,

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<v Speaker 1>and sexual assaults have proven to resonate deeply with fans everywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>On today's episode, I talked to Ray about her wild

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<v Speaker 1>journey through the music business. She explains how a quote

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<v Speaker 1>from Nina Simone gave her the courage to take control

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<v Speaker 1>of her career, how a ski trip in Utah helped

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<v Speaker 1>inspire some of her best songwriting ever, and about her

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<v Speaker 1>sprawling new single out Everywhere now called Genesis. This is

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<v Speaker 1>broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's my conversation with ray Man. Your Coachella set seemed

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<v Speaker 1>like it was really well received. I got to see

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of it. It was awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>It was definitely really a special one for us. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's the first time I've witnessed a crowd like

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<v Speaker 2>that for me in a festival in the States, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>So that was like a really special change. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>something I'm not used to out here.

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<v Speaker 1>What felt different about that crowd?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think in America, like it's it's always been intimidating.

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<v Speaker 2>I think as a British artist, you know, the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of like performing in America anyways, just intimidating. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I've done quite a few, not loads, but a few

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<v Speaker 2>other festivals out here where you're like, right, we need

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<v Speaker 2>to win the crowd, we need to grow the crowd. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so Coachella just I wasn't expecting it to be that full,

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<v Speaker 2>and people were really engaged and it was really special.

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<v Speaker 1>This wasn't a case of you getting your music out

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<v Speaker 1>to a bunch of people at the festival. It's like

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<v Speaker 1>those were people are like now converted, like people are

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<v Speaker 1>Ray fans.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know what? I do have a habit during

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<v Speaker 2>during shows of really over analyzing everyone's faces. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like at the beginning of the set, I was like, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I need I was like, right, I need to win.

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<v Speaker 2>I need people to get to know me, you know

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<v Speaker 2>kind of thing. And I always try and leave a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of space. We ended up taking a song or

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<v Speaker 2>two out so that I'd have more time to chat.

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<v Speaker 2>I like to have a little chat some people. She

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<v Speaker 2>needs to stop talking about. I'd just like to talk.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think also it's a case of maybe some

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<v Speaker 2>people have heard the songs or maybe the song that

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<v Speaker 2>started to cross over here, and they're like, let's go

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<v Speaker 2>and see what it's about. And I think my mission

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<v Speaker 2>is always during a performance, I just want people to

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<v Speaker 2>walk away and be like I would see that again,

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<v Speaker 2>or that was good. You know, That's my goal. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can see people being one of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>people going from stern faith or just like watching with

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<v Speaker 2>no expression to being like okay, or do you know

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<v Speaker 2>what I mean, You're like way even they're doing it

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<v Speaker 2>and you're like okay, cool, Like you know, have.

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<v Speaker 1>You discovered little things that you can do over the

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<v Speaker 1>course of a set to maybe like reliably win people over.

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<v Speaker 2>I think honesty has always been something that's kind of important.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never really I don't really plan what I say.

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of keep the music. You know, we know

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<v Speaker 2>what we're doing within the songs, but even some of

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<v Speaker 2>the endings of songs we leave space, and I just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like it to be as open as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think sometimes when you're just playing songs and

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<v Speaker 2>not talking, people can't really get to know you. They're

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<v Speaker 2>just getting to know the music. So I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>an important thing as well. I like to try and

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<v Speaker 2>give a little back story behind whatever this song is

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<v Speaker 2>about or this moment, and just.

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<v Speaker 1>Being not a script your stage banter at all.

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<v Speaker 2>No, So sometimes I'd be like, oh my god, why.

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<v Speaker 1>Did I just say that you halfway through targets, Like

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<v Speaker 1>what am I saying? Yeah? No, there is a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of that when am I going with that?

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<v Speaker 2>I think I even did that. I was like, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know why, I just told you that, let's move on,

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<v Speaker 2>you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, the way the album came about

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<v Speaker 1>was kind of security's It wasn't a situation where you

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<v Speaker 1>were at a label. It basically there was a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of roadblocks if you want to just I guess walk

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<v Speaker 1>us through some of those.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just not necessarily been as simple ten years

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<v Speaker 2>to get to this moment. You know. I was about

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<v Speaker 2>seventeen when I signed my deal, and I was with

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<v Speaker 2>a record label for seven years, and I think, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we name them? No? I mean, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's on the record.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, I think being a British artist, it's

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<v Speaker 2>a very different world out there. I think it's very

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<v Speaker 2>dance orientated. There are formulas typically that are safer formulas

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<v Speaker 2>that you practice as a songwriter. You know, I started

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<v Speaker 2>in this game as a songwriter from the age of

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen is when I really took it seriously, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was doing sessions off school and stuff, and you kind

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<v Speaker 2>of learn really quickly. Okay, there's a formula to this,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, accessibility, repetition, symmetry, you know, the whole math spine,

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of the songwriting thing, and.

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<v Speaker 1>How did that change your songwriting as a young Like

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<v Speaker 1>when you're fourteen, I imagine you're coming to it pretty pure,

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<v Speaker 1>like just probably just want to do express and eight yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you're realizing there's like a formula. Did that

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<v Speaker 1>change your songwriting.

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<v Speaker 2>Opposed to like change? I think it's just almost a

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<v Speaker 2>world of just gathering skills. You know, when I started

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<v Speaker 2>writing songs, it was very much feeling and freestyling and

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<v Speaker 2>what felt right and being like, oh, I did a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of songwriting in Sweden. There's some incredible pop rous

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<v Speaker 2>songwriters out there, and I used to fly out for

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of weeks at a time and write with

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<v Speaker 2>all the producers and writers to anyone that would let

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<v Speaker 2>me in a session. And from that you're like, oh wow,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's not just whatever melody feels nice. It's like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we have a melody here. The end of the melody

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<v Speaker 2>is a little bit too complicated. This word doesn't roll

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<v Speaker 2>off the tongue as nice, you know, and chipping away

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<v Speaker 2>and sculpting something, so yeah, you know, they're all skills

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm really glad I acquired. And I think for

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<v Speaker 2>different artists and different sounds and different genres, you kind

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<v Speaker 2>of need more of one skill than another and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like that. But within that space, you know, dance music

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<v Speaker 2>is huge at symmetry and maths and repetition and lyric

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<v Speaker 2>that everyone can relate to and easily digestible and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like that. So I kind of, from a younger age

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<v Speaker 2>realized I had a knack at being persistent and chipping

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<v Speaker 2>away at something until the artist or the person I

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<v Speaker 2>was writing with was happy and.

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<v Speaker 1>You could take whatever criticism that would come with a

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<v Speaker 1>version one.

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<v Speaker 2>And when writing for someone else, it's not about you know,

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<v Speaker 2>my opinion to a degree, But you know, I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>people pleaser as well, So I'm going to make this song,

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<v Speaker 2>going to do it so they love it. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's all a performance as well. In another way, it's

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<v Speaker 2>kind of funny. But yeah, I think when that started

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<v Speaker 2>to cross over and bleed into what my label at

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<v Speaker 2>the time wanted from me, and the goal was selling

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<v Speaker 2>opposed to the art itself, did.

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<v Speaker 1>You know that going in or was that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a were you blindsided a bit by Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>No, of course not. Yeah, nobody does. Yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>real thing. You know that moment before you put pen

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<v Speaker 2>on paper. Everyone is so nice. They take you for dinners,

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<v Speaker 2>sell you a whole lot of lovely dreams and promises.

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<v Speaker 2>Like some of the things. I was like sixteen years

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<v Speaker 2>old when I started doing the rounds and some of

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<v Speaker 2>the things I heard, Oh my god, I'm not even

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<v Speaker 2>gonna run me on here, because but it's wild.

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<v Speaker 1>What are you wear?

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<v Speaker 2>Something like? You know this? We have this artist said artists.

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<v Speaker 2>I won't even name the name, but they've heard your music.

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<v Speaker 2>They've agreed to endorse you. If you sign with Vice,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to have this. You're going to have that.

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<v Speaker 2>This isn't even this is just people just talk and

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<v Speaker 2>artists in this stage. No people will say anything to

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<v Speaker 2>get you to put your name on that piece of paper.

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<v Speaker 2>When you're sixteen years old from South London and you're

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<v Speaker 2>like in America doing meetings with these big, huge people,

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<v Speaker 2>it can absolutely just muddel your brain up and false

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<v Speaker 2>hope and a lot of lies, a lot of air

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<v Speaker 2>that's real. I was like, raw, this place is dark.

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<v Speaker 1>How quickly after you put fended papers you realize that,

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<v Speaker 1>oh I just got bamboos.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe I'd like to say a year in maybe Also

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<v Speaker 2>the guy who had signed me had then left, so

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<v Speaker 2>the dynamics changed pretty quickly after that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a pretty common story too, I think, I hear, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it is your support structure leaves and then you're kind

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<v Speaker 1>of left.

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<v Speaker 2>There's actually a contractual clause called a key Man clause,

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<v Speaker 2>which artists should know about, and I didn't at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>but it means, you know, you get that clause put

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<v Speaker 2>into your contract, means if the person who signs you leaves,

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<v Speaker 2>that you have the right to terminate or move with them.

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<v Speaker 2>It's called a key Man clause, and it's just something

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<v Speaker 2>I wish I knew about when I was seventeen.

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<v Speaker 1>To what extent were you happy with the early phases

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<v Speaker 1>and stages of your career like those first from like

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<v Speaker 1>sixteen seventeen to you know, a couple of years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>only a few years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it was a tricky one because it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't about my goals. It was about, you know, needing

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<v Speaker 2>to impress these people who basically have my career in

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<v Speaker 2>their hands. You know, they get to decide whether they're

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<v Speaker 2>going to promote something or they're not, whether they're going

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<v Speaker 2>to pause my timeline or help me move things along.

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<v Speaker 2>So you have to play ball, you know, and you

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<v Speaker 2>learn that pretty quick. Yeah, So I did my best

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<v Speaker 2>to do that. The goal always has been since the

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<v Speaker 2>day that I signed to now in my career, to

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<v Speaker 2>be an album's artist. I wanted to release bodies of work,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was really excited to be able to earn

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<v Speaker 2>the right to decide what music I wanted to share.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was kind of always presented that. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>when you have a song that's big enough and you've

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<v Speaker 2>earned an audience that's big enough and wants an album

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<v Speaker 2>from you, that you can do that.

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<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, when did your debut album start coming together?

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<v Speaker 1>When did you record that?

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<v Speaker 2>I would say maybe about four or five years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of the earliest songs started coming together.

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<v Speaker 1>What were the first few?

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<v Speaker 2>Oscar Win in Tears was there for a long time

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<v Speaker 2>hard out Here, but the instrumental was made years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>But then I wrote a whole nother song on top

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<v Speaker 2>of it Worth It was an older one, yeah, A

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<v Speaker 2>couple of songs had just been around for a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Five Stars was an old one, yeah, and I had

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<v Speaker 2>the title about four years ago. It's funny because I

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<v Speaker 2>was going through some of my notebooks at home and

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<v Speaker 2>I found this notebook. It was dated like twenty eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>or something. It said my twenty first century Blues.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>So the title the ideas were forming for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Do you remember why that title came to you?

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<v Speaker 1>Why that phrase came to you?

0:12:04.436 --> 0:12:06.796
<v Speaker 2>I don't know completely. What I do know is when

0:12:06.836 --> 0:12:09.276
<v Speaker 2>I was a kid, maybe it was about four ten

0:12:09.356 --> 0:12:12.396
<v Speaker 2>years old, and my dad and my uncle we went

0:12:12.476 --> 0:12:14.476
<v Speaker 2>on a road trip. Basically, we drove through America. We

0:12:14.516 --> 0:12:16.356
<v Speaker 2>started in la and we went all the way through

0:12:16.436 --> 0:12:20.716
<v Speaker 2>to I think it was Atlanta. We ended somewhere and

0:12:21.276 --> 0:12:24.516
<v Speaker 2>we drove all through Nashville, We drove through New Orleans

0:12:24.796 --> 0:12:29.396
<v Speaker 2>and Louisiana. We like did our whole trip. And at

0:12:29.476 --> 0:12:32.116
<v Speaker 2>that time, everywhere we'd drive, we'd put on the local radios,

0:12:32.436 --> 0:12:34.036
<v Speaker 2>you know in the UK. You know, I've listened to

0:12:34.076 --> 0:12:37.356
<v Speaker 2>a lot of gospel and some of the greats, amazing singers,

0:12:37.396 --> 0:12:39.116
<v Speaker 2>but there was so much music and genres I've never

0:12:39.276 --> 0:12:41.756
<v Speaker 2>been exposed to. And I think I had a life

0:12:41.876 --> 0:12:44.476
<v Speaker 2>changing experience when I was in New Orleans, and it

0:12:44.596 --> 0:12:47.556
<v Speaker 2>was at a place called the Preservation Jazz Hall and

0:12:48.476 --> 0:12:50.676
<v Speaker 2>it was like a room, like one hundred and fifty

0:12:50.676 --> 0:12:53.636
<v Speaker 2>people coming to this room and there's just this band.

0:12:53.916 --> 0:12:56.196
<v Speaker 2>And I remember being sat cross legged on the floor.

0:12:56.676 --> 0:12:59.436
<v Speaker 2>I was sat right underneath this guy's trombone. I had

0:12:59.516 --> 0:13:03.356
<v Speaker 2>like spit flying in my face. She sat there like

0:13:03.716 --> 0:13:06.476
<v Speaker 2>wide eyed, just like.

0:13:06.756 --> 0:13:07.396
<v Speaker 1>What is this.

0:13:07.676 --> 0:13:10.316
<v Speaker 2>I'd never experienced anything like it. And it was just

0:13:10.436 --> 0:13:13.596
<v Speaker 2>a fusion of kind of jazz and the blues. And

0:13:13.796 --> 0:13:15.476
<v Speaker 2>I remember being like, whatever this is, I want a

0:13:15.516 --> 0:13:17.556
<v Speaker 2>part of that. And since then, I kind of my

0:13:17.716 --> 0:13:20.956
<v Speaker 2>tastes changed and I just wanted to know more and

0:13:21.156 --> 0:13:24.716
<v Speaker 2>understand more about this feeling, this kind of music. And yeah,

0:13:24.836 --> 0:13:28.796
<v Speaker 2>so although we barely scratch over any kind of blues

0:13:28.916 --> 0:13:32.156
<v Speaker 2>textures in this album, what I fell in love with

0:13:32.436 --> 0:13:35.396
<v Speaker 2>was the songwriting and how you know, we go to

0:13:35.516 --> 0:13:37.196
<v Speaker 2>these bars and you've got people playing.

0:13:42.076 --> 0:13:42.276
<v Speaker 1>Be like.

0:13:43.956 --> 0:13:47.916
<v Speaker 2>When I was a little boy, I went to school

0:13:47.996 --> 0:13:52.156
<v Speaker 2>one day and then I sat on a chair, no

0:13:54.276 --> 0:13:57.436
<v Speaker 2>just say you know what I mean? These stories and

0:13:57.516 --> 0:13:59.636
<v Speaker 2>each one was different. It was the same riff and

0:13:59.836 --> 0:14:02.796
<v Speaker 2>just all these stories and I was like, wow, so

0:14:02.956 --> 0:14:04.596
<v Speaker 2>this is their blues. And I was like, this is

0:14:04.676 --> 0:14:07.476
<v Speaker 2>deep and they're deep stories, moving stories, very honest and

0:14:08.036 --> 0:14:11.436
<v Speaker 2>transparent and clearful, and I fell in love. I'd always

0:14:11.476 --> 0:14:14.516
<v Speaker 2>had this idea if I wanted to make whatever my

0:14:15.276 --> 0:14:17.836
<v Speaker 2>version of the blues is, even though it's not necessarily

0:14:17.916 --> 0:14:21.556
<v Speaker 2>that genre, it's that candidness.

0:14:21.356 --> 0:14:23.756
<v Speaker 1>Well, and there's a bravado on a lot of your

0:14:23.876 --> 0:14:25.476
<v Speaker 1>you know. I don't know if it's like the whole album,

0:14:25.476 --> 0:14:28.356
<v Speaker 1>because there's some very vulnerable bits, but there is an

0:14:28.356 --> 0:14:30.956
<v Speaker 1>added to a backbone to this album for sure that

0:14:31.116 --> 0:14:35.876
<v Speaker 1>runs through it. And I love the book ends. It's like,

0:14:36.156 --> 0:14:38.596
<v Speaker 1>as you put it on, it's like you're being transported

0:14:38.676 --> 0:14:41.516
<v Speaker 1>to like a smokey jazz club, you know what I mean.

0:14:41.556 --> 0:14:43.956
<v Speaker 1>And and by the time it ends, you're right back there,

0:14:44.396 --> 0:14:46.156
<v Speaker 1>and then you're almost ready to play right over again.

0:14:46.796 --> 0:14:49.236
<v Speaker 1>And it's amazing to hear that that stuck with you,

0:14:49.356 --> 0:14:51.076
<v Speaker 1>and then that made it that far from child a

0:14:51.156 --> 0:14:53.876
<v Speaker 1>childhood road trip across the ten through from LA to

0:14:53.956 --> 0:14:56.676
<v Speaker 1>New Orleans and up that that stayed with you all

0:14:56.716 --> 0:15:00.276
<v Speaker 1>these years. It really did. After a quick break, we'll

0:15:00.276 --> 0:15:06.916
<v Speaker 1>be back with more of my conversation with Ray. We're

0:15:06.956 --> 0:15:10.196
<v Speaker 1>back with more from Ray, who referenced wanting to be

0:15:10.316 --> 0:15:13.116
<v Speaker 1>in an album artist. What were some of the albums

0:15:13.516 --> 0:15:15.436
<v Speaker 1>that you grew up on that were like the bed

0:15:15.556 --> 0:15:17.356
<v Speaker 1>rocks for you, like the ones that were like the

0:15:17.436 --> 0:15:18.476
<v Speaker 1>perfect records for you.

0:15:18.836 --> 0:15:22.556
<v Speaker 2>My goodness. The first two albums that played such an

0:15:22.596 --> 0:15:26.076
<v Speaker 2>important part in my childhood was Alicia Keys The Diary

0:15:26.116 --> 0:15:29.316
<v Speaker 2>of Alisha Keys. That was a big one for me. Wow,

0:15:29.516 --> 0:15:32.036
<v Speaker 2>that was the first hard copy album I ever bought.

0:15:32.876 --> 0:15:37.116
<v Speaker 2>And then Who Is Jill Scott? Jill Scott? That blew

0:15:37.196 --> 0:15:40.236
<v Speaker 2>my mind? And I think also like being in the

0:15:40.396 --> 0:15:43.236
<v Speaker 2>UK and just again the stuff we was exposed to.

0:15:43.396 --> 0:15:46.996
<v Speaker 2>And then my uncle shout out. Uncle jose put me

0:15:47.156 --> 0:15:50.196
<v Speaker 2>on to this album. He started with a Long Walk

0:15:50.636 --> 0:15:53.436
<v Speaker 2>and I was listening to this song like she's just

0:15:53.676 --> 0:15:57.756
<v Speaker 2>talking with melodies. You know, you're used to hearing these

0:15:57.796 --> 0:16:01.356
<v Speaker 2>perfect rhyming couplets and everything being whatever, but she's just

0:16:01.516 --> 0:16:04.636
<v Speaker 2>like speaking to you like a conversation, and it was

0:16:04.756 --> 0:16:08.436
<v Speaker 2>so casual the way she would sing that entire album

0:16:09.196 --> 0:16:13.116
<v Speaker 2>blew my mind. Watching me, you know, she's like she's

0:16:13.156 --> 0:16:17.356
<v Speaker 2>talking about CCTV and people watching her like she's just

0:16:17.436 --> 0:16:19.396
<v Speaker 2>gone to the shop to buy some double or triple

0:16:19.476 --> 0:16:22.516
<v Speaker 2>A batteries. She's like checking and see where I go?

0:16:22.916 --> 0:16:26.036
<v Speaker 2>Who I be? How where with who I make my money?

0:16:26.596 --> 0:16:27.556
<v Speaker 1>What is this?

0:16:28.356 --> 0:16:31.316
<v Speaker 2>Excuse me? Miss may, I have your telephone number and

0:16:31.396 --> 0:16:34.796
<v Speaker 2>your social security She's like, who me? It's like literally

0:16:35.276 --> 0:16:39.036
<v Speaker 2>telling I was like, what is happening? It completely blew

0:16:39.116 --> 0:16:40.756
<v Speaker 2>my mind and I fell in love. So those were

0:16:40.796 --> 0:16:42.836
<v Speaker 2>like two really important albums in my childhood.

0:16:42.876 --> 0:16:45.156
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I wanted to ask you about your relationship with

0:16:45.276 --> 0:16:48.396
<v Speaker 1>hip hop because it feels like there's a certain cadence

0:16:48.436 --> 0:16:50.676
<v Speaker 1>that you can get into sometimes that that would also

0:16:50.756 --> 0:16:52.516
<v Speaker 1>explain it a lot too, Like that kind of being

0:16:52.556 --> 0:16:54.756
<v Speaker 1>able to where it's like are you talking? Are you singing?

0:16:54.876 --> 0:16:58.116
<v Speaker 2>Kind of doing both Jills Queen of that isn't it?

0:16:58.396 --> 0:17:00.396
<v Speaker 1>And then sometimes you just like she'll be doing that

0:17:00.476 --> 0:17:03.716
<v Speaker 1>and then just take off to whoa Okay, I forgot

0:17:03.796 --> 0:17:05.116
<v Speaker 1>who was right?

0:17:05.236 --> 0:17:08.036
<v Speaker 2>And it's also so free, you know with her. I

0:17:08.196 --> 0:17:11.956
<v Speaker 2>love her style of you feel like anything could happen,

0:17:12.076 --> 0:17:14.876
<v Speaker 2>do you know what I mean? It doesn't feel too perfect.

0:17:15.036 --> 0:17:18.076
<v Speaker 2>It just feels so authentic. And I've always loved her

0:17:18.076 --> 0:17:21.076
<v Speaker 2>about her the way she sings and performs as well. Yeah.

0:17:21.716 --> 0:17:23.236
<v Speaker 1>Were you listening to a lot of hip hop too

0:17:23.356 --> 0:17:23.756
<v Speaker 1>growing up?

0:17:24.316 --> 0:17:26.876
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? A fair amount. I mean I did get to

0:17:26.956 --> 0:17:29.116
<v Speaker 2>that age where like Party next Door was my everything

0:17:29.236 --> 0:17:31.396
<v Speaker 2>that's not really hip hop, but you know Drake the

0:17:31.476 --> 0:17:33.756
<v Speaker 2>Weekends Party next Door, you know that era we all

0:17:33.876 --> 0:17:34.596
<v Speaker 2>had where we're.

0:17:34.476 --> 0:17:37.796
<v Speaker 1>All like, oh my god, going up on a Tuesday.

0:17:38.036 --> 0:17:43.756
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the Other Weekend's first album was was a big one,

0:17:43.956 --> 0:17:47.356
<v Speaker 2>the trilogy. Yeah, But in terms of like hip hop,

0:17:47.476 --> 0:17:50.156
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what kind of exposed to some different stuff.

0:17:50.196 --> 0:17:51.796
<v Speaker 2>I was exposed to a lot grown up and like

0:17:51.876 --> 0:17:53.316
<v Speaker 2>different family members as well.

0:17:53.716 --> 0:17:55.076
<v Speaker 1>Did you see Uncle Jose.

0:17:55.236 --> 0:17:59.596
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's actually lives in America. So my mum and

0:17:59.796 --> 0:18:03.916
<v Speaker 2>my uncle were both raised in Ghana. When they're about

0:18:03.956 --> 0:18:06.476
<v Speaker 2>twenty two to twenty three, mum moved to the UK

0:18:07.116 --> 0:18:11.436
<v Speaker 2>and Uncle Jose moved to America. And he's always been

0:18:11.556 --> 0:18:15.756
<v Speaker 2>so supportive as well, Like he bought me my first laptop,

0:18:15.916 --> 0:18:18.196
<v Speaker 2>my MacBook where I used to start making sessions on

0:18:18.276 --> 0:18:19.876
<v Speaker 2>garage band and stuff like that when I was about

0:18:19.916 --> 0:18:23.836
<v Speaker 2>thirteen for my thirteenth birthday, and so I started making

0:18:23.836 --> 0:18:26.116
<v Speaker 2>a lot of demos on there and it really helped

0:18:26.156 --> 0:18:29.556
<v Speaker 2>spark my passion for production and vocal production and just

0:18:29.636 --> 0:18:32.796
<v Speaker 2>making music in general. It's so funny because even though

0:18:32.876 --> 0:18:36.836
<v Speaker 2>none of us before me and my sisters had ever

0:18:36.916 --> 0:18:39.076
<v Speaker 2>practiced music. It was always the desire for it and

0:18:39.156 --> 0:18:41.796
<v Speaker 2>the passion for it was always in the blood. I'd say,

0:18:41.916 --> 0:18:45.436
<v Speaker 2>like my dad's dad, he used to write songs. He

0:18:45.556 --> 0:18:48.276
<v Speaker 2>used to want to be a songwriter professionally in a

0:18:48.316 --> 0:18:53.516
<v Speaker 2>little town in England, north of England, Yorkshire. He used

0:18:53.556 --> 0:18:56.316
<v Speaker 2>to write songs on record them onto tape and score

0:18:56.356 --> 0:18:59.076
<v Speaker 2>it out and write the lyrics, and he'd send a

0:18:59.156 --> 0:19:01.716
<v Speaker 2>box of tapes and the sheet music to record labels

0:19:01.756 --> 0:19:05.116
<v Speaker 2>in London, hoping that you know, someone might hear his

0:19:05.276 --> 0:19:08.756
<v Speaker 2>songs and like it. And I can't even be too

0:19:08.836 --> 0:19:11.676
<v Speaker 2>can But he did have a song stolen from him

0:19:12.196 --> 0:19:14.636
<v Speaker 2>that turned out to be really successful. But you know,

0:19:14.676 --> 0:19:16.596
<v Speaker 2>theres a lot of songwriters it happened for back in

0:19:16.676 --> 0:19:19.556
<v Speaker 2>the day. He didn't get credited and no one believed him,

0:19:19.596 --> 0:19:21.996
<v Speaker 2>and he had no way legally to prove it because

0:19:21.996 --> 0:19:24.436
<v Speaker 2>he didn't have the money to do that, and then

0:19:24.476 --> 0:19:26.476
<v Speaker 2>he gave up on his dream then and there. It's

0:19:26.516 --> 0:19:30.596
<v Speaker 2>so funny that I was a kid and I didn't

0:19:30.596 --> 0:19:33.036
<v Speaker 2>even know the story, and I'm like, I just want

0:19:33.076 --> 0:19:35.516
<v Speaker 2>to write music. So it's funny at that time, No,

0:19:35.676 --> 0:19:38.036
<v Speaker 2>I was like seven eight nine when I was like

0:19:38.716 --> 0:19:44.356
<v Speaker 2>making silly, weird poems and copying the melodies i'd hear

0:19:44.476 --> 0:19:47.716
<v Speaker 2>in the TV kids shows I was watching. And I

0:19:47.876 --> 0:19:51.116
<v Speaker 2>remember one time I was watching this like TV show

0:19:51.636 --> 0:19:53.396
<v Speaker 2>and I liked the melody. It was like this kind

0:19:53.436 --> 0:19:58.196
<v Speaker 2>of jazzy and I was about eight, and I pretended

0:19:58.276 --> 0:20:00.596
<v Speaker 2>that I wrote it, but I just changed all the words.

0:20:00.956 --> 0:20:02.676
<v Speaker 2>And then I went to dad, my dad, and I

0:20:02.796 --> 0:20:06.196
<v Speaker 2>was like, listen to this song I wrote, and he

0:20:06.396 --> 0:20:08.756
<v Speaker 2>was blown away, but I didn't tell him I'd stolen

0:20:08.796 --> 0:20:10.996
<v Speaker 2>the song and just change the lyrics to some terrible

0:20:11.596 --> 0:20:14.596
<v Speaker 2>lyrics about snowfalling and a Christmas song. It was so bad.

0:20:14.836 --> 0:20:17.676
<v Speaker 2>I like, how that still sticks with you somewhere, like

0:20:17.756 --> 0:20:21.836
<v Speaker 2>I'm afraid of plagiarism. But then I realized that's what songwriters.

0:20:21.876 --> 0:20:25.396
<v Speaker 2>Some songwriters do that, or it's sampling essentially.

0:20:25.676 --> 0:20:28.836
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, way to get started, you know, like copy a

0:20:28.916 --> 0:20:31.796
<v Speaker 1>bit and the lyrics so you can figure out how

0:20:31.836 --> 0:20:33.796
<v Speaker 1>to do a whole class. Yeah.

0:20:34.516 --> 0:20:37.596
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it's always been in the my family. We

0:20:37.756 --> 0:20:40.036
<v Speaker 2>love music. You know. I grew up in church as well.

0:20:40.196 --> 0:20:41.916
<v Speaker 2>My dad and mom used to sing. Mom used to

0:20:41.916 --> 0:20:44.316
<v Speaker 2>sing in the choir. Dad used to leave worship so

0:20:44.836 --> 0:20:48.476
<v Speaker 2>I grew up watching and listening to music being sung

0:20:48.596 --> 0:20:49.676
<v Speaker 2>every Sunday.

0:20:49.636 --> 0:20:51.196
<v Speaker 1>In like in a church where you grew up, what

0:20:51.316 --> 0:20:53.516
<v Speaker 1>was leading worship? Like would that entails?

0:20:53.556 --> 0:20:55.876
<v Speaker 2>It was like, I don't know, like it's not a

0:20:55.956 --> 0:20:59.076
<v Speaker 2>big church that maybe forty or fifty people, you know

0:20:59.716 --> 0:21:02.436
<v Speaker 2>in a church in Tooting in South London where I

0:21:02.476 --> 0:21:05.516
<v Speaker 2>grew up, and my mom and dad would.

0:21:05.396 --> 0:21:08.516
<v Speaker 1>Just sing so like a gospel choir.

0:21:09.236 --> 0:21:11.476
<v Speaker 2>No, it's not big, like you know in America, you

0:21:11.516 --> 0:21:15.116
<v Speaker 2>guys have an amazing like huge production set ups, like

0:21:15.396 --> 0:21:18.836
<v Speaker 2>amazing music. You know, this is very like down to

0:21:18.956 --> 0:21:21.596
<v Speaker 2>earth from the heart, very.

0:21:23.556 --> 0:21:28.796
<v Speaker 1>Direct from you guys to God in the gospel.

0:21:28.956 --> 0:21:30.236
<v Speaker 2>You know, come as you are mate.

0:21:30.276 --> 0:21:35.276
<v Speaker 1>You know, did you listen to much gospel?

0:21:35.876 --> 0:21:38.556
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely, Yeah, growing up with a lot of Kurt

0:21:38.636 --> 0:21:42.276
<v Speaker 2>Franklin and Donnie McClerkin and some amazing music I was

0:21:42.316 --> 0:21:45.116
<v Speaker 2>exposed to from a really young age. And I think

0:21:45.116 --> 0:21:48.596
<v Speaker 2>about gospel as well, is it's just musically so complex.

0:21:49.156 --> 0:21:51.116
<v Speaker 2>I don't even think gospel gets enough credit for how

0:21:51.236 --> 0:21:54.716
<v Speaker 2>technically difficult it is to really execute those things. You know,

0:21:54.836 --> 0:21:58.356
<v Speaker 2>you have them mds live in the church on a

0:21:58.436 --> 0:22:04.156
<v Speaker 2>microphone like okay, we're going to chord four and then five. Hold, hold, hold,

0:22:04.316 --> 0:22:07.196
<v Speaker 2>we're going six to seven, don't. I'm like, this is

0:22:07.356 --> 0:22:08.196
<v Speaker 2>serious practice.

0:22:08.316 --> 0:22:11.596
<v Speaker 1>Oh for real, it's not joke. No, it's great. I

0:22:11.676 --> 0:22:13.596
<v Speaker 1>want to go back now. So you have a few

0:22:13.716 --> 0:22:17.436
<v Speaker 1>songs for my twenty fifth Century Blues. You're still with Polydor.

0:22:17.596 --> 0:22:19.996
<v Speaker 1>You're kind of getting the run around what happens next.

0:22:20.676 --> 0:22:25.596
<v Speaker 2>The understanding from my perspective also was if I was

0:22:25.676 --> 0:22:27.076
<v Speaker 2>going to do an album, it would need to be

0:22:27.156 --> 0:22:29.796
<v Speaker 2>a dance album. So my twenty first Century Blues kind

0:22:29.796 --> 0:22:32.516
<v Speaker 2>of got put on the back burner and I was

0:22:32.596 --> 0:22:36.196
<v Speaker 2>working on a record I needed to hand in songs

0:22:37.116 --> 0:22:39.716
<v Speaker 2>one p fifteen bpm or above, like it needed to

0:22:39.756 --> 0:22:44.156
<v Speaker 2>be like that kind of sound. So, as far as

0:22:44.236 --> 0:22:47.996
<v Speaker 2>my constraints allowed, I set out to make an album

0:22:48.116 --> 0:22:50.556
<v Speaker 2>that I was going to call dark dance Songs, and

0:22:50.756 --> 0:22:53.236
<v Speaker 2>it was going to be minor. And I'd say the

0:22:53.316 --> 0:22:55.196
<v Speaker 2>closest thing I had to it was that black mascara

0:22:55.236 --> 0:22:56.996
<v Speaker 2>which I put on my twenty fifth Century Blues. It

0:22:57.116 --> 0:22:59.516
<v Speaker 2>was all this kind of I was trying to find

0:22:59.556 --> 0:23:02.316
<v Speaker 2>my compromise, and then yeah, it just ended up that,

0:23:02.636 --> 0:23:05.876
<v Speaker 2>you know, I had a new person who just joined

0:23:05.916 --> 0:23:07.916
<v Speaker 2>our team and started working as my day to day

0:23:08.516 --> 0:23:10.356
<v Speaker 2>and she was supposed to tell me we were in

0:23:10.396 --> 0:23:12.556
<v Speaker 2>the middle of a shoot for something else. You know,

0:23:12.636 --> 0:23:14.956
<v Speaker 2>I'm like maybe four or five months into writing this album,

0:23:15.076 --> 0:23:17.836
<v Speaker 2>and I'm becoming invested and I'm excited about what it's

0:23:17.876 --> 0:23:20.676
<v Speaker 2>going to be. And then she'd basically just said that

0:23:21.156 --> 0:23:23.596
<v Speaker 2>if this song you've just put out doesn't do good,

0:23:24.156 --> 0:23:25.556
<v Speaker 2>You're not going to be able to do the album.

0:23:25.716 --> 0:23:28.156
<v Speaker 2>It just got really messy, and I was just I

0:23:28.356 --> 0:23:30.636
<v Speaker 2>hit just a boiling point, a breaking point. I was

0:23:30.716 --> 0:23:36.276
<v Speaker 2>so angry and so frustrated and so pissed off. I

0:23:36.436 --> 0:23:40.276
<v Speaker 2>felt like just I was just getting treated so unfairly,

0:23:41.196 --> 0:23:44.516
<v Speaker 2>and I've been trying so desperately for the last seven

0:23:44.596 --> 0:23:46.876
<v Speaker 2>years to prove to them that I am a musician, Like, look,

0:23:46.876 --> 0:23:49.276
<v Speaker 2>I'm writing for this person, Like are you proud of

0:23:49.356 --> 0:23:49.596
<v Speaker 2>me yet?

0:23:49.716 --> 0:23:51.676
<v Speaker 1>Like I was just so desperate who are you're writing for?

0:23:51.796 --> 0:23:55.476
<v Speaker 2>At that time, you know, I had a good healthy

0:23:55.516 --> 0:23:57.956
<v Speaker 2>amount of cuts, you know, in the dance world and

0:23:58.196 --> 0:24:03.396
<v Speaker 2>with some girl bands and some solo artists, and I'd

0:24:03.436 --> 0:24:07.636
<v Speaker 2>been doing good things and every time I remember, every

0:24:07.676 --> 0:24:09.436
<v Speaker 2>time I get caught, I'd kind of want to tell

0:24:09.476 --> 0:24:11.196
<v Speaker 2>them and be like, look, look, I was just so

0:24:11.516 --> 0:24:16.396
<v Speaker 2>desperate for them to believe in me. Really, I've really

0:24:16.516 --> 0:24:18.476
<v Speaker 2>tried so hard to achieve that and I just failed.

0:24:19.316 --> 0:24:21.196
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it just got to a breaking point.

0:24:21.796 --> 0:24:25.116
<v Speaker 1>Yeah so I know you sent a tweet out at

0:24:25.156 --> 0:24:27.676
<v Speaker 1>some point? Was that a spur of the moment thing?

0:24:27.956 --> 0:24:30.876
<v Speaker 1>Was that calculated like let me just try something here?

0:24:31.116 --> 0:24:35.476
<v Speaker 2>Or what was the zero strategy and planning into that?

0:24:36.476 --> 0:24:39.916
<v Speaker 2>Not tell you? I just was like in my head,

0:24:39.996 --> 0:24:42.276
<v Speaker 2>what the F do I have to lose? Like I

0:24:42.356 --> 0:24:45.516
<v Speaker 2>have nothing to lose. I was at a point where

0:24:45.516 --> 0:24:47.596
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I would rather just be a songwriter,

0:24:48.476 --> 0:24:51.236
<v Speaker 2>like I've seven years is a long time, especially from

0:24:51.276 --> 0:24:53.356
<v Speaker 2>a kid, you know, and then that pressure of that,

0:24:53.556 --> 0:24:55.516
<v Speaker 2>I think it's a lie personally, but that pressure of

0:24:55.996 --> 0:24:57.796
<v Speaker 2>you know, when you're young, it's exciting and as you

0:24:57.876 --> 0:25:00.916
<v Speaker 2>grow up you're going to miss your window, especially as

0:25:00.916 --> 0:25:03.076
<v Speaker 2>a woman, like these lies you hear and Yeah, just

0:25:03.156 --> 0:25:04.756
<v Speaker 2>got to a place where if this is what it

0:25:04.836 --> 0:25:06.236
<v Speaker 2>is to be an artist, I don't want to do this.

0:25:06.476 --> 0:25:08.916
<v Speaker 2>I hate some of these songs I'm putting my name

0:25:08.956 --> 0:25:11.236
<v Speaker 2>to that. I'm out here smiling and returning her like

0:25:11.476 --> 0:25:16.196
<v Speaker 2>trying to sell this is like soul destroying, especially when

0:25:16.836 --> 0:25:19.716
<v Speaker 2>I'm like in love with my craft. I'm in love

0:25:19.756 --> 0:25:21.836
<v Speaker 2>with music. I was a kid when I decided to

0:25:21.876 --> 0:25:26.196
<v Speaker 2>dedicate my life to work in music and wanting to

0:25:26.276 --> 0:25:30.756
<v Speaker 2>pursue a career, and it was breaking my heart. It

0:25:30.916 --> 0:25:33.956
<v Speaker 2>was just making me so sad. Yeah, So I just

0:25:34.036 --> 0:25:35.716
<v Speaker 2>got to a point. We just moved house and I

0:25:35.836 --> 0:25:39.476
<v Speaker 2>was in my room. It didn't have a bed in it,

0:25:39.556 --> 0:25:41.556
<v Speaker 2>so I just remember being like on a block mattress

0:25:41.596 --> 0:25:43.876
<v Speaker 2>on the floor, and the only thing I had in

0:25:43.956 --> 0:25:47.036
<v Speaker 2>my room was a picture of Nina Simone and under

0:25:47.076 --> 0:25:49.076
<v Speaker 2>it it said a quote it's an artist's duty to

0:25:49.156 --> 0:25:51.956
<v Speaker 2>reflect the times. And I remember sat there in tears, like,

0:25:52.676 --> 0:25:56.596
<v Speaker 2>what the hell am I doing. I'm not doing anything important,

0:25:56.876 --> 0:26:00.476
<v Speaker 2>I'm not doing anything that feels right. Nina would be

0:26:01.476 --> 0:26:06.436
<v Speaker 2>so disgusted by everything I put to my name. She

0:26:06.516 --> 0:26:08.956
<v Speaker 2>would be like, ill get her out of my face.

0:26:09.196 --> 0:26:13.076
<v Speaker 2>I was like, what have I become like? And I

0:26:13.196 --> 0:26:16.916
<v Speaker 2>said no, no, no, and I just let it rip.

0:26:17.556 --> 0:26:19.276
<v Speaker 1>That's a very needless, a long thing to do. Let

0:26:19.316 --> 0:26:21.596
<v Speaker 1>it rip. I mean, thankfully it all worked out. I suppose,

0:26:21.756 --> 0:26:24.236
<v Speaker 1>as the story goes from that tweet, do you guys

0:26:24.316 --> 0:26:26.036
<v Speaker 1>work something out so they let you go. Does that

0:26:26.116 --> 0:26:27.996
<v Speaker 1>go back to that clause the key man.

0:26:28.236 --> 0:26:31.316
<v Speaker 2>No, I sadly never had that clause in my contract.

0:26:31.676 --> 0:26:35.476
<v Speaker 2>I think I just got so lucky in that people

0:26:36.196 --> 0:26:39.436
<v Speaker 2>decided to care about what I'd shared. And I think

0:26:39.676 --> 0:26:41.716
<v Speaker 2>probably there's also a lot of people unaware of all

0:26:41.756 --> 0:26:44.076
<v Speaker 2>the ins and outs of what goes on behind closed doors.

0:26:44.956 --> 0:26:46.916
<v Speaker 2>And I had a lot of news platforms in the

0:26:47.036 --> 0:26:50.356
<v Speaker 2>UK reaching out, wanting to have a conversation and wanting

0:26:50.396 --> 0:26:55.436
<v Speaker 2>to understand more about what's going on and what it

0:26:55.476 --> 0:26:58.156
<v Speaker 2>can be like for a lot of artists sometimes when

0:26:58.236 --> 0:27:03.396
<v Speaker 2>you're having difficulties on seeing eye to eye with the

0:27:03.516 --> 0:27:08.116
<v Speaker 2>teams that you're contractually bound to, and that became leverage

0:27:09.116 --> 0:27:13.316
<v Speaker 2>and I was able to be like, respectfully, let's leave

0:27:13.356 --> 0:27:14.516
<v Speaker 2>this here now and.

0:27:14.556 --> 0:27:17.556
<v Speaker 1>Then you get to put out your album independently. Yeah.

0:27:17.876 --> 0:27:19.916
<v Speaker 1>I don't know that it could have worked out more

0:27:20.036 --> 0:27:21.076
<v Speaker 1>perfectly in the end.

0:27:21.556 --> 0:27:24.716
<v Speaker 2>No, it's honestly how everything's turned out, is all I

0:27:24.796 --> 0:27:27.396
<v Speaker 2>can describe it as is a series of just miracle

0:27:27.516 --> 0:27:31.916
<v Speaker 2>after miracle. I think I was so overwhelmed at how

0:27:32.036 --> 0:27:34.676
<v Speaker 2>much music of mine was already out there in the world.

0:27:34.796 --> 0:27:36.676
<v Speaker 2>In my head, I was like, how could I possibly

0:27:36.836 --> 0:27:40.076
<v Speaker 2>change the narrative? In the UK, people see me as

0:27:41.076 --> 0:27:45.556
<v Speaker 2>a feature vocalist, a voice like, who's going to care?

0:27:45.676 --> 0:27:45.836
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:27:46.596 --> 0:27:53.116
<v Speaker 2>I just got so ridiculously lucky and Escapism receiving so

0:27:53.276 --> 0:27:56.276
<v Speaker 2>much attention on TikTok and then all of its suddenly

0:27:56.356 --> 0:28:00.236
<v Speaker 2>getting pushed out to all these new ears and that's

0:28:00.276 --> 0:28:02.636
<v Speaker 2>the first they've heard of me, and that's so it

0:28:02.796 --> 0:28:06.796
<v Speaker 2>was so exciting and like, wow, you know, anything really

0:28:06.916 --> 0:28:07.476
<v Speaker 2>is possible.

0:28:07.916 --> 0:28:10.036
<v Speaker 1>Were you shocked by the reception of Escapism?

0:28:10.356 --> 0:28:13.556
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Completely, yeah. But I was also so happy because

0:28:13.636 --> 0:28:17.236
<v Speaker 2>I love that song. I remember when we put that out.

0:28:17.356 --> 0:28:20.756
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, Like, if only people were going to

0:28:20.796 --> 0:28:23.036
<v Speaker 2>be able to hear this song that was my thing

0:28:23.116 --> 0:28:25.516
<v Speaker 2>in my head. I was like, oh, just if people

0:28:25.556 --> 0:28:28.476
<v Speaker 2>could just hear this song, you know. I remember me

0:28:28.516 --> 0:28:30.476
<v Speaker 2>and my dad was talking. I was like, Dad, could

0:28:30.516 --> 0:28:36.036
<v Speaker 2>you imagine, Yeah, if something crazy happened and Escapism just

0:28:36.276 --> 0:28:38.836
<v Speaker 2>went really big and became number one, we looked at

0:28:38.836 --> 0:28:40.796
<v Speaker 2>each other and we were like, ah, ha ha, that'll

0:28:40.876 --> 0:28:46.436
<v Speaker 2>never happened. I remember that conversation clear as day. I

0:28:46.516 --> 0:28:48.076
<v Speaker 2>was like, could you imagine? He was like, yeah, I

0:28:48.076 --> 0:28:51.476
<v Speaker 2>could imagine. That would be crazy right, and then bang.

0:28:52.836 --> 0:28:55.916
<v Speaker 1>Fruish. Why did you write that song in Utah?

0:28:56.356 --> 0:28:56.836
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I did.

0:28:57.116 --> 0:28:57.996
<v Speaker 1>What's the story on that?

0:28:58.796 --> 0:29:01.236
<v Speaker 2>We took a road trip another road trip.

0:29:01.356 --> 0:29:02.796
<v Speaker 1>I like, good for you.

0:29:03.116 --> 0:29:05.596
<v Speaker 2>I like a car. I like a long drive. And

0:29:05.716 --> 0:29:07.556
<v Speaker 2>also it's good to get out of the city. I

0:29:07.636 --> 0:29:08.996
<v Speaker 2>think when you're in a city and you know, be

0:29:09.316 --> 0:29:11.796
<v Speaker 2>there or whatever, it can be distracting and you could

0:29:11.796 --> 0:29:13.476
<v Speaker 2>be like someone like do you want to do this?

0:29:13.716 --> 0:29:15.676
<v Speaker 2>La la la, and you just want to go somewhere

0:29:15.676 --> 0:29:18.516
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of nowhere where you're just in a

0:29:18.596 --> 0:29:21.636
<v Speaker 2>peaceful place and you just have to be present. It

0:29:21.796 --> 0:29:26.196
<v Speaker 2>was nice never No. All the two people I went

0:29:26.276 --> 0:29:28.316
<v Speaker 2>with are good at skiing. I'm not very good at

0:29:28.316 --> 0:29:31.356
<v Speaker 2>save only skied once before in the school trip. I

0:29:31.476 --> 0:29:34.556
<v Speaker 2>decided to join them for skiing in between writing, and

0:29:35.196 --> 0:29:37.836
<v Speaker 2>it was a disaster. These two are like cross country,

0:29:37.956 --> 0:29:41.636
<v Speaker 2>like off Pieced Mountain, freaking skiers. Yeah, they're like, don't worry,

0:29:41.716 --> 0:29:46.596
<v Speaker 2>we'll stay together, We'll go slow. I took a wrong

0:29:46.716 --> 0:29:50.036
<v Speaker 2>turn in black Run. What the only way is down?

0:29:50.116 --> 0:29:50.156
<v Speaker 1>This?

0:29:50.516 --> 0:29:52.396
<v Speaker 2>Whatever? Foot drop? Absolutely not?

0:29:52.756 --> 0:29:53.156
<v Speaker 1>Whatuld you do?

0:29:53.356 --> 0:29:54.996
<v Speaker 2>And my friend's screaming at me, like you have to

0:29:55.116 --> 0:29:59.716
<v Speaker 2>ski down? I was like bitch, I skiing down, I'm walking.

0:29:59.796 --> 0:30:01.996
<v Speaker 2>She's like free sure, And there's all these like four

0:30:02.076 --> 0:30:04.716
<v Speaker 2>year old kids like just gunning it down the hill.

0:30:06.796 --> 0:30:10.036
<v Speaker 2>Took me about an hour to get down. It was hell.

0:30:10.996 --> 0:30:12.356
<v Speaker 2>After that, I left them to it. I went sat

0:30:12.356 --> 0:30:15.076
<v Speaker 2>on the campfire near the entrance and just made friends.

0:30:15.436 --> 0:30:17.436
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, skiing, it's gonna be a while before I

0:30:17.516 --> 0:30:17.956
<v Speaker 2>go back there.

0:30:18.356 --> 0:30:20.276
<v Speaker 1>Maybe take some time on there. Yeah, yeah.

0:30:20.276 --> 0:30:22.876
<v Speaker 2>But the songwriting was productive. We were there for seven

0:30:22.996 --> 0:30:25.836
<v Speaker 2>days and it was such a nice time and we

0:30:26.036 --> 0:30:29.556
<v Speaker 2>wrote basically the other half of the album that was missing.

0:30:30.196 --> 0:30:33.716
<v Speaker 2>It all started with titles. Titles are usually how a

0:30:33.876 --> 0:30:37.316
<v Speaker 2>song will start for me, So I had title Mary Jane,

0:30:37.556 --> 0:30:41.996
<v Speaker 2>environment and anxiety. Escape is body dysmorphia. So those were

0:30:42.036 --> 0:30:44.556
<v Speaker 2>my four titles. There was one or two more that

0:30:44.636 --> 0:30:45.836
<v Speaker 2>we wrote, but that didn't make.

0:30:45.756 --> 0:30:50.356
<v Speaker 1>It Environmental Anxiety. Speaking of the Nina Simone quote in

0:30:50.476 --> 0:30:52.236
<v Speaker 1>artists duty is to reflect the times your I mean

0:30:52.996 --> 0:30:57.716
<v Speaker 1>is so intense. How did you capture that so well?

0:30:58.196 --> 0:31:00.796
<v Speaker 2>We booked a log cabin and we were staring it

0:31:00.916 --> 0:31:03.476
<v Speaker 2>across it was like a mountain in some trees and

0:31:03.516 --> 0:31:05.436
<v Speaker 2>we were like, wow, that so beautiful. Was in the

0:31:05.516 --> 0:31:09.716
<v Speaker 2>morning and Mike Sabbath, the producer who I made this

0:31:09.876 --> 0:31:13.596
<v Speaker 2>album with. The guy is so eccentric. We got downstairs

0:31:13.636 --> 0:31:15.756
<v Speaker 2>and he'd made this little like oh no, no, it's

0:31:15.836 --> 0:31:18.596
<v Speaker 2>like weird like sound. He'd like morphed his voice to

0:31:18.636 --> 0:31:20.396
<v Speaker 2>sound like a chipmunk l whatever, and it's just looping

0:31:20.476 --> 0:31:23.076
<v Speaker 2>around and around and just playing these weird bells. And

0:31:23.156 --> 0:31:25.396
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Mike, you've lost your absolute mind, but like,

0:31:25.556 --> 0:31:27.756
<v Speaker 2>let's fucking go, do you know what I mean? And

0:31:27.836 --> 0:31:29.676
<v Speaker 2>we were looking at the view and we was like, damn,

0:31:29.956 --> 0:31:32.116
<v Speaker 2>like we're being so cruel to our planet. And we

0:31:32.236 --> 0:31:34.316
<v Speaker 2>just started on a tangent, you know. And I think

0:31:34.316 --> 0:31:35.956
<v Speaker 2>it's something a lot of us are worried about but

0:31:36.036 --> 0:31:40.836
<v Speaker 2>are powerless to really do any actual change, or it's

0:31:40.876 --> 0:31:44.476
<v Speaker 2>something that needs to come from our governments. Yeah, a

0:31:44.516 --> 0:31:45.356
<v Speaker 2>lot of people don't care.

0:31:45.676 --> 0:31:47.396
<v Speaker 1>You kind of sum it all up and put a

0:31:47.436 --> 0:31:50.676
<v Speaker 1>bow on it in like three minutes and ten seconds.

0:31:50.716 --> 0:31:53.356
<v Speaker 1>It's like, yoh wow, like you kind of like distill

0:31:53.996 --> 0:31:57.076
<v Speaker 1>all the anxieties of kind of our world at large

0:31:57.236 --> 0:32:01.316
<v Speaker 1>and all the problems and issues and and Boris johnson'sn't cooking.

0:32:04.076 --> 0:32:07.196
<v Speaker 2>We all know that's true, but come on, it seems

0:32:07.236 --> 0:32:11.076
<v Speaker 2>seems like it's true this article, yeah, which is so funny.

0:32:11.516 --> 0:32:14.356
<v Speaker 2>But they tested the sewage. I don't know who was

0:32:14.436 --> 0:32:17.236
<v Speaker 2>testing the sewage of the houzards of Parliament and they

0:32:17.356 --> 0:32:21.636
<v Speaker 2>found such a high concentration of cocaine in the sewage.

0:32:22.556 --> 0:32:24.196
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if we should be talking about this.

0:32:24.636 --> 0:32:27.596
<v Speaker 2>But meanwhile, you're arresting kids with possession of smoking a

0:32:27.636 --> 0:32:29.596
<v Speaker 2>little bit of weed on the street, I mean, putting

0:32:29.596 --> 0:32:31.756
<v Speaker 2>them in jail for that. Meanwhile, you're all in there

0:32:31.796 --> 0:32:34.836
<v Speaker 2>doing coke. It's just not fair. None of it's fair,

0:32:34.956 --> 0:32:35.116
<v Speaker 2>is it.

0:32:35.636 --> 0:32:37.716
<v Speaker 1>But I'm glad you're speaking to someone like you.

0:32:38.116 --> 0:32:40.476
<v Speaker 2>May we gotta put these things on blasts. It's incorrect.

0:32:40.556 --> 0:32:43.036
<v Speaker 1>It's beautiful song. So those are all voices on that intro, right,

0:32:43.476 --> 0:32:45.596
<v Speaker 1>all those sounds, it's all a voice manipulated. And then

0:32:45.636 --> 0:32:48.796
<v Speaker 1>your voice incredible. You harmonize with yourself really well.

0:32:48.996 --> 0:32:51.556
<v Speaker 2>I love harmonies. When a voice can become a pad

0:32:51.676 --> 0:32:53.876
<v Speaker 2>or a simp or something as well, it's exciting.

0:32:53.596 --> 0:32:55.716
<v Speaker 1>You know. Yeah, it's a really gorgeous sound your voice,

0:32:55.756 --> 0:32:59.556
<v Speaker 1>like when it builds out like that. It's gorgeous escapism too.

0:32:59.636 --> 0:33:03.036
<v Speaker 1>I love the two different perspectives two different voices. It's

0:33:03.076 --> 0:33:05.156
<v Speaker 1>like you're in the story and then you kind of

0:33:05.196 --> 0:33:07.356
<v Speaker 1>get like you're narrating it for us, right, which is

0:33:07.436 --> 0:33:08.876
<v Speaker 1>like a cool thing to do.

0:33:09.236 --> 0:33:12.756
<v Speaker 2>So love to bounce between first person and third person.

0:33:13.476 --> 0:33:17.636
<v Speaker 2>I find that fun and like, yeah, the narration aspect

0:33:17.996 --> 0:33:20.276
<v Speaker 2>of it. I always like it's funny. Sometimes I'll be

0:33:20.316 --> 0:33:22.396
<v Speaker 2>writing and all the other day with me and my

0:33:22.716 --> 0:33:24.556
<v Speaker 2>creative director, we're trying to do something, and I kept

0:33:25.236 --> 0:33:27.716
<v Speaker 2>I realized, I just love to mix. He's like, you know,

0:33:27.836 --> 0:33:30.876
<v Speaker 2>this sentence is third person and this sentences first person.

0:33:30.916 --> 0:33:32.276
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, you know what, I like mixing it.

0:33:32.836 --> 0:33:33.196
<v Speaker 2>Fuck it.

0:33:34.836 --> 0:33:38.356
<v Speaker 1>Yet? Why not? Yeah, after this last break, we'll come

0:33:38.396 --> 0:33:45.036
<v Speaker 1>back with the rest of my conversation with Ray. We're

0:33:45.076 --> 0:33:48.396
<v Speaker 1>back with the rest of my conversation with Ray. It's

0:33:48.436 --> 0:33:50.636
<v Speaker 1>not by Mary Jane a little bit. What made you

0:33:50.716 --> 0:33:51.876
<v Speaker 1>choose that as a song title?

0:33:52.276 --> 0:33:54.956
<v Speaker 2>All the songs we wrote in Utah? You know, I

0:33:55.076 --> 0:33:59.516
<v Speaker 2>wanted to address kind of these subjects kind of pretty

0:33:59.596 --> 0:34:02.956
<v Speaker 2>head on. And I think I've always had a very

0:34:03.076 --> 0:34:06.996
<v Speaker 2>kind of addictive personality, and I've i think especially because

0:34:07.036 --> 0:34:11.036
<v Speaker 2>I was playing this like sweet little hot artists kind

0:34:11.076 --> 0:34:13.436
<v Speaker 2>of character, or at least that's what I was attempting

0:34:13.556 --> 0:34:15.596
<v Speaker 2>to sell. But really behind closed doors, I was just

0:34:16.036 --> 0:34:19.476
<v Speaker 2>really not dealing with things great, and I was just outside,

0:34:19.596 --> 0:34:22.876
<v Speaker 2>not even outside. I was just moving mad. Yeah, and

0:34:22.956 --> 0:34:27.236
<v Speaker 2>I got trapped into some pretty intense kind of cycles

0:34:27.316 --> 0:34:29.956
<v Speaker 2>and picked up some unhealthy habits, you know how it be.

0:34:30.076 --> 0:34:33.116
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes Also you become really good at hiding it. I

0:34:33.236 --> 0:34:35.716
<v Speaker 2>was just distant from my family. I was just lost

0:34:35.756 --> 0:34:36.596
<v Speaker 2>and not happy.

0:34:36.716 --> 0:34:38.476
<v Speaker 1>Does your family kind of recognize what was going on?

0:34:38.836 --> 0:34:40.836
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I didn't really seen it. I think it was

0:34:40.876 --> 0:34:42.836
<v Speaker 2>like a year or whatever. I saw my parents like

0:34:42.916 --> 0:34:44.956
<v Speaker 2>twice in a year, which is really unlike me. Now

0:34:45.036 --> 0:34:47.356
<v Speaker 2>my parents are like around me all the time and

0:34:47.396 --> 0:34:49.676
<v Speaker 2>I tell them everything and I love him. But yeah,

0:34:49.716 --> 0:34:51.876
<v Speaker 2>there was just a period of time where I was

0:34:51.996 --> 0:34:55.756
<v Speaker 2>fully on escapers and vibes. Yeah, I mean, just yeah,

0:34:55.916 --> 0:34:59.956
<v Speaker 2>running away from reality. There's a lot of these subjects

0:34:59.996 --> 0:35:03.276
<v Speaker 2>which I find there's no real place to have these

0:35:03.356 --> 0:35:06.356
<v Speaker 2>conversations or in a space where you don't feel judged

0:35:06.516 --> 0:35:10.036
<v Speaker 2>or you don't feel disgusting or embarrassed.

0:35:10.396 --> 0:35:10.556
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:35:10.756 --> 0:35:12.796
<v Speaker 2>I talk in this song about codeine, you know, and

0:35:13.436 --> 0:35:15.316
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of us who can develop these kind

0:35:15.356 --> 0:35:18.556
<v Speaker 2>of dependencies on things, and it's so easy to keep

0:35:18.596 --> 0:35:20.556
<v Speaker 2>a secret and hide it and it can get dangerous,

0:35:20.756 --> 0:35:22.396
<v Speaker 2>and it did for me for a bit, you know.

0:35:22.956 --> 0:35:25.156
<v Speaker 2>So I just wanted to write a song, kind of weird,

0:35:25.716 --> 0:35:28.036
<v Speaker 2>twisted kind of love song. I think it's one of

0:35:28.076 --> 0:35:31.356
<v Speaker 2>those things as well. Once you open Pandora's box, you know,

0:35:31.596 --> 0:35:33.396
<v Speaker 2>but they say it's it's hard to close it.

0:35:33.676 --> 0:35:37.916
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, were you ever wary of I mean, Mary Jane escapeism,

0:35:39.076 --> 0:35:41.436
<v Speaker 1>body dysmorphia? Was there ever a part of you that

0:35:41.476 --> 0:35:44.356
<v Speaker 1>we felt like maybe I don't want this on the app?

0:35:44.396 --> 0:35:47.636
<v Speaker 1>Because then of course just from the bit of press

0:35:47.756 --> 0:35:51.636
<v Speaker 1>that I've picked up about you over time, it's like, wow,

0:35:51.956 --> 0:35:55.436
<v Speaker 1>people are asking you really like heavy. I'm like, I

0:35:55.476 --> 0:35:56.676
<v Speaker 1>don't know if I don't want to talk about this,

0:35:57.476 --> 0:36:00.036
<v Speaker 1>Like I just just like, how how did you ever

0:36:00.076 --> 0:36:02.636
<v Speaker 1>feel worried about that? Do you not? Do you regret it?

0:36:02.676 --> 0:36:03.876
<v Speaker 1>But does every part of you feel like damn? I

0:36:03.876 --> 0:36:05.076
<v Speaker 1>don't know if I want to go? You know.

0:36:05.196 --> 0:36:09.316
<v Speaker 2>It's like you know what I think, I think a

0:36:09.356 --> 0:36:11.236
<v Speaker 2>conscious choice you have to make as an artist, Like

0:36:11.316 --> 0:36:14.156
<v Speaker 2>what kind of artists am I going to be? There

0:36:14.196 --> 0:36:18.676
<v Speaker 2>are incredible artists who don't let you in on that

0:36:18.876 --> 0:36:21.356
<v Speaker 2>side of their life who close those doors and they

0:36:21.476 --> 0:36:26.356
<v Speaker 2>deliver perfection, And that's a whole other thing, because then

0:36:26.436 --> 0:36:30.036
<v Speaker 2>you're just dealing with all of those things behind closed doors,

0:36:30.116 --> 0:36:33.156
<v Speaker 2>but you present this and I have so much respect

0:36:33.876 --> 0:36:36.956
<v Speaker 2>for those kinds of artists, and that in itself takes

0:36:36.996 --> 0:36:43.636
<v Speaker 2>a whole load of bravery and rehearsals and skill and delivery.

0:36:43.796 --> 0:36:45.796
<v Speaker 2>That's a whole other thing. And then I think there's

0:36:45.836 --> 0:36:48.396
<v Speaker 2>the other end of it where it's like I'm going

0:36:48.436 --> 0:36:50.156
<v Speaker 2>to be an open book. But then that at the

0:36:50.156 --> 0:36:52.916
<v Speaker 2>same time, that also comes with people who you don't

0:36:52.996 --> 0:36:58.196
<v Speaker 2>know knowing things about me that four years ago my

0:36:58.276 --> 0:36:59.996
<v Speaker 2>own family didn't know. Do you know what I mean?

0:37:00.396 --> 0:37:03.836
<v Speaker 2>It's an interesting choice I've made, And definitely there are

0:37:03.916 --> 0:37:07.036
<v Speaker 2>days where it's like, damn, I really just did a lot,

0:37:07.756 --> 0:37:10.916
<v Speaker 2>and days are on stage like why did I decide

0:37:11.076 --> 0:37:14.156
<v Speaker 2>to be so open about this? But for all of

0:37:14.236 --> 0:37:17.996
<v Speaker 2>the times I do find it tricky or overwhelming, I

0:37:18.116 --> 0:37:20.396
<v Speaker 2>do think that's the kind of artists I want to be,

0:37:20.836 --> 0:37:23.356
<v Speaker 2>even though it's not always easy. Does that make sense? Yeah?

0:37:23.356 --> 0:37:24.916
<v Speaker 1>I mean it kind of does make you a real

0:37:25.156 --> 0:37:28.556
<v Speaker 1>writer in a way, and that writers really want to

0:37:28.796 --> 0:37:32.596
<v Speaker 1>write about real human experience and are kind of always

0:37:32.676 --> 0:37:35.516
<v Speaker 1>drudging and mining that stuff all the time, you know,

0:37:35.676 --> 0:37:37.796
<v Speaker 1>like kind of the misery and a sense and sometimes

0:37:38.236 --> 0:37:40.836
<v Speaker 1>the joy and all that too, but kind of moving

0:37:40.916 --> 0:37:43.356
<v Speaker 1>between those two in music, you know, I think some

0:37:43.436 --> 0:37:44.516
<v Speaker 1>people shy away from that.

0:37:44.836 --> 0:37:48.036
<v Speaker 2>It's difficult, but also it's what you feel comfortable, or

0:37:48.116 --> 0:37:51.876
<v Speaker 2>what your purpose is. Some artists purposes to entertain, and

0:37:52.196 --> 0:37:55.116
<v Speaker 2>damn well do they entertain, you know. And I think

0:37:55.276 --> 0:37:57.716
<v Speaker 2>for me as a writer, I kind of see it

0:37:57.796 --> 0:38:01.716
<v Speaker 2>as you're creating a commentary on the human experience from

0:38:01.756 --> 0:38:05.436
<v Speaker 2>your perspective, and that does require honesty. I think vulnerability

0:38:05.596 --> 0:38:09.836
<v Speaker 2>is so important and it's difficult. Sometimes it can be

0:38:09.956 --> 0:38:13.156
<v Speaker 2>very difficult for me personally in my taste. I always

0:38:13.236 --> 0:38:16.116
<v Speaker 2>find the music that I connect to the most is

0:38:16.156 --> 0:38:18.236
<v Speaker 2>where I feel just like I've been let in and

0:38:18.316 --> 0:38:23.556
<v Speaker 2>I'm just hearing candidness. It hurts. Sometimes it's like oh sugar,

0:38:24.196 --> 0:38:26.516
<v Speaker 2>or it's like not even for me just as a listener,

0:38:26.596 --> 0:38:28.556
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're like, oh my god, this is bringing

0:38:28.636 --> 0:38:31.076
<v Speaker 2>tears to my eyes. You know, if someone's telling your

0:38:31.156 --> 0:38:33.596
<v Speaker 2>story and you're just you have goosebumps all over your

0:38:33.636 --> 0:38:36.556
<v Speaker 2>skin and you're completely enchanted. And then it takes you

0:38:36.676 --> 0:38:39.956
<v Speaker 2>to somewhere in your life and then provide some sort

0:38:39.956 --> 0:38:42.796
<v Speaker 2>of aid or band aid we say, plaster, or some

0:38:42.956 --> 0:38:45.196
<v Speaker 2>sort of hug or some sort of space for you

0:38:45.276 --> 0:38:47.556
<v Speaker 2>to cry and feel it. So as a listener, that's

0:38:48.476 --> 0:38:51.916
<v Speaker 2>where I feel most moved. But it's definitely not an

0:38:51.916 --> 0:38:52.596
<v Speaker 2>easy thing to do.

0:38:53.156 --> 0:38:55.476
<v Speaker 1>Was ice Cream Man? Was that a difficult song to

0:38:56.196 --> 0:38:57.956
<v Speaker 1>record and to Yeah, I.

0:38:57.996 --> 0:39:03.876
<v Speaker 2>Mean, without a doubt, Yeah, definitely the whole. Yeah, that

0:39:03.956 --> 0:39:07.796
<v Speaker 2>one's deep. It's just deep, because my god, that song,

0:39:07.916 --> 0:39:10.916
<v Speaker 2>it's just I'm still you know, like a lot of

0:39:11.036 --> 0:39:13.916
<v Speaker 2>us are working through those things in it. But I

0:39:13.996 --> 0:39:17.076
<v Speaker 2>got a message the other day on my Instagram DMS.

0:39:17.196 --> 0:39:18.876
<v Speaker 2>Trying not to spend too much time on my socials

0:39:18.876 --> 0:39:20.796
<v Speaker 2>and stuff, but every now and then I have a

0:39:20.836 --> 0:39:23.316
<v Speaker 2>little look. And it was maybe about two days ago,

0:39:23.396 --> 0:39:25.276
<v Speaker 2>and I got this message from this lady and she

0:39:25.436 --> 0:39:30.116
<v Speaker 2>was about in her fifties and she sent me this long,

0:39:30.316 --> 0:39:34.996
<v Speaker 2>beautiful message. It was really sad message about her life,

0:39:35.076 --> 0:39:38.276
<v Speaker 2>and she was telling me about some of the things

0:39:38.316 --> 0:39:41.836
<v Speaker 2>she went through as a child and working through it,

0:39:41.956 --> 0:39:45.796
<v Speaker 2>and it was so moving. I was so moved. I

0:39:45.876 --> 0:39:47.916
<v Speaker 2>read it about six times. Even brings to his to

0:39:47.956 --> 0:39:50.396
<v Speaker 2>my eyes now, and I was just like, my goodness,

0:39:50.596 --> 0:39:54.796
<v Speaker 2>like some of us are carrying so much. And she

0:39:55.036 --> 0:39:57.676
<v Speaker 2>just expressed at the end of the message that she

0:39:57.836 --> 0:40:00.956
<v Speaker 2>was really grateful for that song because it gave her

0:40:01.076 --> 0:40:03.996
<v Speaker 2>the confidence to talk to someone that she loved about

0:40:04.036 --> 0:40:06.756
<v Speaker 2>something she'd beencerned about her whole life. There are so

0:40:06.916 --> 0:40:09.876
<v Speaker 2>many of us out here dealing with things, carrying things,

0:40:09.996 --> 0:40:13.036
<v Speaker 2>holding things. There's no instruction manual what to do. This

0:40:13.236 --> 0:40:15.876
<v Speaker 2>is where music is like medicine and provides a space

0:40:15.956 --> 0:40:19.316
<v Speaker 2>of healing or reflection. So as tricky is that song

0:40:19.436 --> 0:40:21.396
<v Speaker 2>is for me on the worst to days, I'm just

0:40:21.516 --> 0:40:25.716
<v Speaker 2>so grateful that even if it was only her, you

0:40:25.796 --> 0:40:28.916
<v Speaker 2>know that that's even been able to provide some sort

0:40:28.956 --> 0:40:30.996
<v Speaker 2>of I don't even know what the words are, but

0:40:31.076 --> 0:40:31.916
<v Speaker 2>I was just so mood.

0:40:32.556 --> 0:40:33.556
<v Speaker 1>Do you perform the song?

0:40:33.756 --> 0:40:37.196
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I do now. Sometimes it's sad, sometimes I do

0:40:37.436 --> 0:40:40.076
<v Speaker 2>cry a lot. Sometimes I could sing it and I

0:40:40.156 --> 0:40:43.956
<v Speaker 2>feel really powerful. I feel really safe inside my music.

0:40:44.676 --> 0:40:46.716
<v Speaker 2>I think that's another thing that maybe allows me to

0:40:46.796 --> 0:40:51.036
<v Speaker 2>be so honest and vulnerable. It feels like if I

0:40:51.236 --> 0:40:54.756
<v Speaker 2>was just to say some of the lyrics in this

0:40:54.916 --> 0:40:57.476
<v Speaker 2>conversation with you, but without a melody and without the

0:40:57.556 --> 0:41:01.356
<v Speaker 2>safe space inside a song, I would not be comfortable

0:41:01.396 --> 0:41:05.356
<v Speaker 2>to do that at all, which is weird. But it

0:41:05.516 --> 0:41:08.756
<v Speaker 2>feels like within a song, it's on my terms in

0:41:08.876 --> 0:41:12.556
<v Speaker 2>the sonic bed. That feels like it's correct to lie

0:41:13.636 --> 0:41:18.356
<v Speaker 2>and it feels safe. It feels like no one can

0:41:18.476 --> 0:41:23.396
<v Speaker 2>spin this or nobody can have an opinion too negative

0:41:23.516 --> 0:41:26.156
<v Speaker 2>besides not liking the song, but they can't be like,

0:41:26.356 --> 0:41:29.836
<v Speaker 2>well I don't believe her, Well this and that, you know,

0:41:30.116 --> 0:41:33.076
<v Speaker 2>all the scrutiny that you can get from being open

0:41:33.316 --> 0:41:36.396
<v Speaker 2>and transparent about your life. But without a song, Yeah, you.

0:41:36.476 --> 0:41:40.756
<v Speaker 1>Have a new single Genesis, and it's really great. But

0:41:41.836 --> 0:41:43.596
<v Speaker 1>when it started, I was like, okay, all right, like

0:41:43.716 --> 0:41:47.356
<v Speaker 1>we and then you know, three quarters of the way

0:41:47.396 --> 0:41:50.836
<v Speaker 1>through or halfway through, there's a change, and it's like

0:41:50.916 --> 0:41:54.236
<v Speaker 1>the most uplifting. The first half is a little it's

0:41:54.236 --> 0:41:56.036
<v Speaker 1>a little like, oh shoot, like this is like I

0:41:56.076 --> 0:41:57.636
<v Speaker 1>feel like I was a little worried as I guess

0:41:57.636 --> 0:42:01.236
<v Speaker 1>she's still in like a and by the end I'm like,

0:42:01.316 --> 0:42:04.316
<v Speaker 1>oh shit, it feels like I'm in preservation Hall and

0:42:04.396 --> 0:42:07.996
<v Speaker 1>new and it's like the lyric is what's the lyric about?

0:42:08.036 --> 0:42:08.996
<v Speaker 1>Light Like blood and lighting.

0:42:09.236 --> 0:42:10.396
<v Speaker 2>They'd be l like, yeah, they'd be light.

0:42:10.516 --> 0:42:13.636
<v Speaker 1>It feels maybe more like where your life is now

0:42:13.956 --> 0:42:16.516
<v Speaker 1>than some of the album, you know, I know that

0:42:16.556 --> 0:42:17.196
<v Speaker 1>feels true to you.

0:42:18.196 --> 0:42:20.356
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think the Planners will put out the full

0:42:20.476 --> 0:42:24.236
<v Speaker 2>seven minutes and then the week after kind of split

0:42:24.276 --> 0:42:27.316
<v Speaker 2>them into three different songs. So you have Genesis one,

0:42:27.356 --> 0:42:29.756
<v Speaker 2>which is that kind of really sad reflection in the

0:42:29.836 --> 0:42:34.796
<v Speaker 2>mirror of depressing conversation with yourself someone. Song two is

0:42:34.836 --> 0:42:38.916
<v Speaker 2>that heavy whatever sound, and then song three is the

0:42:39.116 --> 0:42:41.396
<v Speaker 2>kind of big band vibe at the end, and I

0:42:41.516 --> 0:42:44.116
<v Speaker 2>think you can almost see it as maybe an EP

0:42:44.396 --> 0:42:46.476
<v Speaker 2>or something. But I wanted to put all the songs

0:42:46.516 --> 0:42:48.996
<v Speaker 2>in one and kind of force you to try and

0:42:49.236 --> 0:42:51.076
<v Speaker 2>have to listen to all of it just in one,

0:42:51.156 --> 0:42:54.476
<v Speaker 2>which is a lot and I think I really took

0:42:54.876 --> 0:42:56.876
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of passion and a lot of time

0:42:57.156 --> 0:43:00.356
<v Speaker 2>went into the lyrics for me and making sure that

0:43:00.676 --> 0:43:02.396
<v Speaker 2>it said what it needed to say. I wanted it

0:43:02.476 --> 0:43:05.516
<v Speaker 2>to be cutting and again honest, and I wanted to

0:43:05.596 --> 0:43:09.756
<v Speaker 2>talk about themes of you know, suicide and which is

0:43:10.436 --> 0:43:15.236
<v Speaker 2>again just I think also even for young men, I

0:43:15.316 --> 0:43:18.836
<v Speaker 2>think there's this kind of thing of like just feeling

0:43:18.916 --> 0:43:23.156
<v Speaker 2>things and not talking about it. I recently lost someone

0:43:23.156 --> 0:43:25.636
<v Speaker 2>who was really close to the family, just gone, you know,

0:43:26.116 --> 0:43:28.916
<v Speaker 2>and you didn't even know that they were going for anything.

0:43:29.476 --> 0:43:30.036
<v Speaker 1>Suicide.

0:43:30.396 --> 0:43:33.956
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a lot of people just as you know,

0:43:34.116 --> 0:43:36.036
<v Speaker 2>fighting a lot of stuff. I wanted to create a

0:43:36.116 --> 0:43:39.556
<v Speaker 2>song that felt like if you are going for anything

0:43:39.676 --> 0:43:41.676
<v Speaker 2>like that, or you do feel in any sort of

0:43:41.756 --> 0:43:46.316
<v Speaker 2>way burdened or like you're going for a really tough time.

0:43:46.436 --> 0:43:48.556
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to create a piece of music that you

0:43:48.636 --> 0:43:52.116
<v Speaker 2>could allow yourself to feel it in the beginning, and

0:43:52.236 --> 0:43:54.796
<v Speaker 2>then the music kind of starts to lift you up

0:43:54.796 --> 0:43:56.636
<v Speaker 2>in the middle, even though the lyric is still heavy,

0:43:57.876 --> 0:44:00.316
<v Speaker 2>taking you maybe to a more powerful place to process

0:44:00.396 --> 0:44:03.956
<v Speaker 2>that emotion, and then by the end hopefully feeling some

0:44:04.036 --> 0:44:06.996
<v Speaker 2>positivity and some hope. So I wanted it to be

0:44:07.076 --> 0:44:10.356
<v Speaker 2>this journey of if any one even relates to one

0:44:10.396 --> 0:44:12.476
<v Speaker 2>of the sentences in that song, you know, And I

0:44:12.636 --> 0:44:15.196
<v Speaker 2>was trying to create an open scape of my honesty.

0:44:15.396 --> 0:44:19.076
<v Speaker 2>But then also what else are people our love or

0:44:19.116 --> 0:44:21.476
<v Speaker 2>people I don't even know going through or need from

0:44:21.676 --> 0:44:24.516
<v Speaker 2>this song? So it's quite a deep one, Yeah it is.

0:44:24.676 --> 0:44:28.396
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm so grateful you loved us with that we needed,

0:44:28.596 --> 0:44:35.356
<v Speaker 1>so we absolutely needed. Yeah, man, how are you going

0:44:35.396 --> 0:44:37.116
<v Speaker 1>to do that live? Well?

0:44:38.036 --> 0:44:41.556
<v Speaker 2>Look, in my dream scenario, there will always be many

0:44:41.636 --> 0:44:45.636
<v Speaker 2>many musicians on the stage. From a cost efficiency perspective,

0:44:46.476 --> 0:44:50.476
<v Speaker 2>we're working now, but you know who needs to make

0:44:50.556 --> 0:44:52.316
<v Speaker 2>notes of money? Like who needs to do that?

0:44:52.556 --> 0:44:55.796
<v Speaker 1>Sure? I mean travel with the big band? Bring them out?

0:44:56.596 --> 0:45:01.356
<v Speaker 1>You worked with Dark Child? I love Dark Child? Rodney Man,

0:45:01.476 --> 0:45:02.636
<v Speaker 1>how did you look about Rodney?

0:45:02.676 --> 0:45:05.076
<v Speaker 2>That's my bro. I actually met him when I was

0:45:05.116 --> 0:45:06.916
<v Speaker 2>a kid, like my first trip to LA when I

0:45:06.916 --> 0:45:09.276
<v Speaker 2>was about seventeen, and I was taking some meetings and

0:45:09.316 --> 0:45:11.276
<v Speaker 2>I remember at the time I hadn't made anything good

0:45:11.356 --> 0:45:15.316
<v Speaker 2>enough to like really capture his attention. But I remember

0:45:15.396 --> 0:45:18.116
<v Speaker 2>thinking in my head like one day he's going to

0:45:18.196 --> 0:45:20.396
<v Speaker 2>hear my music and be like she's sick. Like I

0:45:20.516 --> 0:45:23.556
<v Speaker 2>remember that being a goal. And then we got connected

0:45:23.636 --> 0:45:26.716
<v Speaker 2>and maybe like two years ago, and got in the

0:45:26.756 --> 0:45:29.836
<v Speaker 2>studio and started working on what is this song? So

0:45:29.876 --> 0:45:31.556
<v Speaker 2>it's been a labor of love for quite a long time.

0:45:32.196 --> 0:45:34.276
<v Speaker 2>He's really brilliant and I have a lot of love

0:45:34.316 --> 0:45:36.556
<v Speaker 2>for him, and I put him through the ring.

0:45:36.596 --> 0:45:37.716
<v Speaker 1>On this Tell me about it.

0:45:38.036 --> 0:45:39.996
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. I called him again and be like,

0:45:40.556 --> 0:45:43.196
<v Speaker 2>we need to fix the drums. I'm like, we need to.

0:45:43.756 --> 0:45:45.876
<v Speaker 2>You know, we had this original drum loop and I'm like,

0:45:45.916 --> 0:45:49.396
<v Speaker 2>it's giving, but it wasn't live. It had a live texture,

0:45:49.436 --> 0:45:51.636
<v Speaker 2>but some of the frequencies were too sharp and it

0:45:51.716 --> 0:45:53.996
<v Speaker 2>was jarring. And I was like, we need to it

0:45:54.116 --> 0:45:57.356
<v Speaker 2>needs to have the same feel, but it needs to

0:45:57.476 --> 0:45:59.676
<v Speaker 2>feel clean and a bit more raw and down to

0:45:59.716 --> 0:46:03.156
<v Speaker 2>earth and and not have that kind of distracting whatever.

0:46:03.156 --> 0:46:05.676
<v Speaker 2>And he'd be like, okay, okay. So we trapped different

0:46:05.716 --> 0:46:08.076
<v Speaker 2>things and then we go back and back and and

0:46:08.116 --> 0:46:09.796
<v Speaker 2>then it was like, finally, yes, we got it. So

0:46:09.876 --> 0:46:11.716
<v Speaker 2>we took the original drummer and made it like twenty

0:46:11.716 --> 0:46:13.876
<v Speaker 2>percent in volume and then played this new one over

0:46:13.916 --> 0:46:16.516
<v Speaker 2>the top so you still get that whatever. And then

0:46:16.556 --> 0:46:18.356
<v Speaker 2>I remember I was at the baseline. I think we

0:46:18.436 --> 0:46:20.956
<v Speaker 2>need a completely different melody to it. So then we

0:46:21.036 --> 0:46:27.516
<v Speaker 2>did this baseline where I basically recorded twenty and we

0:46:27.636 --> 0:46:31.396
<v Speaker 2>stacked and stacked and stacked, vocally manipulated it, put it

0:46:31.436 --> 0:46:33.756
<v Speaker 2>down the octave, and then played a symp with it.

0:46:33.876 --> 0:46:39.636
<v Speaker 2>Like there was so much experimentation and things that needed

0:46:39.676 --> 0:46:42.356
<v Speaker 2>to be changed, things that needed to be added, and

0:46:42.476 --> 0:46:45.476
<v Speaker 2>he was so patient with me because I'm so annoying

0:46:47.316 --> 0:46:51.236
<v Speaker 2>every little detail life Ronnie, we needed her, I'll call

0:46:51.316 --> 0:46:54.916
<v Speaker 2>him like Hi, Ray, Like hey, So, I was just

0:46:55.076 --> 0:46:58.156
<v Speaker 2>thinking that we need a new verse two, you know,

0:46:58.596 --> 0:47:01.436
<v Speaker 2>and maybe we do a string section. I even have

0:47:01.596 --> 0:47:04.796
<v Speaker 2>notes now, and we've handed in the master, and I'm

0:47:04.836 --> 0:47:07.596
<v Speaker 2>thinking maybe the vinyl is going to be different to

0:47:07.756 --> 0:47:09.676
<v Speaker 2>the version that's going to come out. I think we

0:47:09.796 --> 0:47:11.716
<v Speaker 2>need a more soft detexture on verse one because the

0:47:11.796 --> 0:47:16.276
<v Speaker 2>lyrics already so hard that you need some softness around it,

0:47:16.996 --> 0:47:19.196
<v Speaker 2>you know. And then we played these brass on SNL

0:47:19.276 --> 0:47:21.876
<v Speaker 2>that was so good that I'm like, we need to

0:47:21.916 --> 0:47:24.436
<v Speaker 2>add that in. So there's probably going to be some

0:47:24.636 --> 0:47:27.036
<v Speaker 2>changes in the vinyl of seven inch version that we

0:47:27.156 --> 0:47:30.756
<v Speaker 2>printed to what you're hearing now. Rodney's such a jeep,

0:47:31.236 --> 0:47:32.916
<v Speaker 2>like he's a legend. He's one of the best in

0:47:32.996 --> 0:47:36.196
<v Speaker 2>the game. He's just constantly leveling up, creating music that

0:47:36.396 --> 0:47:38.356
<v Speaker 2>just stands and tests the time wherever or some.

0:47:38.356 --> 0:47:41.276
<v Speaker 1>Of the best singers Janet Tony Braxton, I mean, come on,

0:47:41.436 --> 0:47:46.996
<v Speaker 1>I mean just the greatest singers work As an album artist,

0:47:48.116 --> 0:47:49.316
<v Speaker 1>do you have a sense of what you want to

0:47:49.356 --> 0:47:54.476
<v Speaker 1>do next? I like to make an album, okay, but

0:47:54.716 --> 0:47:56.556
<v Speaker 1>doing it out like you do, you have a goal

0:47:56.676 --> 0:47:58.716
<v Speaker 1>that I want it to be by boom or you just.

0:47:58.796 --> 0:48:02.556
<v Speaker 2>Like it just has to be good by my own standard,

0:48:03.276 --> 0:48:05.636
<v Speaker 2>and I think I'll need to live a little bit

0:48:05.796 --> 0:48:08.756
<v Speaker 2>to like make a really good album. Otherwise I'm just

0:48:08.796 --> 0:48:13.876
<v Speaker 2>gonna be writing about hotel rooms and winding roads and

0:48:14.236 --> 0:48:16.556
<v Speaker 2>nobody wants to hear that. So I need to go

0:48:16.676 --> 0:48:19.996
<v Speaker 2>and collect some stories as well and live a little bit.

0:48:20.316 --> 0:48:22.876
<v Speaker 2>I'm aware that it's a bit scary in the times

0:48:22.916 --> 0:48:25.796
<v Speaker 2>we're in with everyone having such short attention spans, and

0:48:26.996 --> 0:48:29.076
<v Speaker 2>you know, we're it's such an amazing place right now

0:48:29.196 --> 0:48:33.156
<v Speaker 2>that everyone's like, oh, well, when's the next shit coming on?

0:48:33.316 --> 0:48:36.636
<v Speaker 2>Like fucking hell damn, Like, I need to go. I

0:48:36.756 --> 0:48:39.076
<v Speaker 2>need to write. I'm not going to put anything out

0:48:39.116 --> 0:48:41.996
<v Speaker 2>that I don't love and I don't believe it's good,

0:48:42.036 --> 0:48:43.636
<v Speaker 2>and it's got to at least be a little bit

0:48:43.676 --> 0:48:46.636
<v Speaker 2>better than, in my opinion, the album we just put

0:48:46.676 --> 0:48:49.156
<v Speaker 2>out of what's the point, I mean, got be leveling up.

0:48:49.916 --> 0:48:52.196
<v Speaker 1>Hey, well, I can't wait to hear it. I hope, Yeah,

0:48:52.276 --> 0:48:55.116
<v Speaker 1>me too, I can't wait to hear it. I'm sure

0:48:55.116 --> 0:48:57.676
<v Speaker 1>it'll be great. It's a great great talking to you

0:48:57.796 --> 0:49:03.276
<v Speaker 1>no like guys. Thank you. Thanks to Ray for speaking

0:49:03.356 --> 0:49:06.836
<v Speaker 1>so openly about her life, inspiration and her music. Her

0:49:06.916 --> 0:49:10.676
<v Speaker 1>new single, Genesis is out now everywhere. You can hear

0:49:10.676 --> 0:49:12.756
<v Speaker 1>a playlist of all of our favorite race songs at

0:49:12.876 --> 0:49:16.916
<v Speaker 1>broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel

0:49:16.956 --> 0:49:19.836
<v Speaker 1>at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you

0:49:19.876 --> 0:49:23.116
<v Speaker 1>can find all of our new episodes. You can follow

0:49:23.196 --> 0:49:26.636
<v Speaker 1>us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced

0:49:26.716 --> 0:49:29.516
<v Speaker 1>and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric

0:49:29.636 --> 0:49:33.956
<v Speaker 1>Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken

0:49:34.036 --> 0:49:37.356
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0:49:37.396 --> 0:49:41.476
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