1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:23,036 Speaker 1: Pushkin Raised, an English pop singer songwriter whose debut album 2 00:00:23,076 --> 00:00:26,196 Speaker 1: My twenty first Century Blues snagged Album of the Year 3 00:00:26,356 --> 00:00:29,436 Speaker 1: at this year's BRIT Awards, but that was just one 4 00:00:29,636 --> 00:00:33,596 Speaker 1: of six total awards she took home that evening. For Ray, 5 00:00:33,636 --> 00:00:36,196 Speaker 1: who at twenty six, has already survived in tumultuous rides 6 00:00:36,196 --> 00:00:39,356 Speaker 1: through the music industry, the evening was a complete coup. 7 00:00:40,516 --> 00:00:42,756 Speaker 1: Ray started writing songs as a young girl growing up 8 00:00:42,796 --> 00:00:45,756 Speaker 1: in South London. By seventeen, she signed her first record 9 00:00:45,756 --> 00:00:48,196 Speaker 1: deal with Polydor Records and worked for the next seven 10 00:00:48,276 --> 00:00:52,116 Speaker 1: years as a songwriter. While writing songs for artists like Beyonce, 11 00:00:52,356 --> 00:00:56,116 Speaker 1: John Legend and Rihanna, Ray was also writing her own songs, 12 00:00:56,236 --> 00:00:59,636 Speaker 1: which her label refused to release. She was eventually able 13 00:00:59,636 --> 00:01:03,316 Speaker 1: to leave Polydor and in twenty twenty three independently released 14 00:01:03,316 --> 00:01:06,836 Speaker 1: her debut album to heaps of critical acclaim, kicked off 15 00:01:06,876 --> 00:01:11,996 Speaker 1: by her viral TikTok powered hit Escapism. Ray's vulnerability on 16 00:01:12,036 --> 00:01:15,476 Speaker 1: her album about her own struggles with self esteem, substance abuse, 17 00:01:15,636 --> 00:01:19,996 Speaker 1: and sexual assaults have proven to resonate deeply with fans everywhere. 18 00:01:20,956 --> 00:01:23,556 Speaker 1: On today's episode, I talked to Ray about her wild 19 00:01:23,636 --> 00:01:26,796 Speaker 1: journey through the music business. She explains how a quote 20 00:01:26,796 --> 00:01:29,116 Speaker 1: from Nina Simone gave her the courage to take control 21 00:01:29,156 --> 00:01:31,956 Speaker 1: of her career, how a ski trip in Utah helped 22 00:01:31,996 --> 00:01:35,156 Speaker 1: inspire some of her best songwriting ever, and about her 23 00:01:35,156 --> 00:01:41,756 Speaker 1: sprawling new single out Everywhere now called Genesis. This is 24 00:01:41,836 --> 00:01:45,636 Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Ritchman. 25 00:01:46,396 --> 00:01:51,236 Speaker 1: Here's my conversation with ray Man. Your Coachella set seemed 26 00:01:51,236 --> 00:01:53,396 Speaker 1: like it was really well received. I got to see 27 00:01:53,396 --> 00:01:54,396 Speaker 1: a bit of it. It was awesome. 28 00:01:54,716 --> 00:01:57,756 Speaker 2: It was definitely really a special one for us. I 29 00:01:57,796 --> 00:02:01,076 Speaker 2: think it's the first time I've witnessed a crowd like 30 00:02:01,116 --> 00:02:04,156 Speaker 2: that for me in a festival in the States, you know, 31 00:02:04,996 --> 00:02:08,716 Speaker 2: So that was like a really special change. But it's 32 00:02:08,716 --> 00:02:10,236 Speaker 2: something I'm not used to out here. 33 00:02:10,716 --> 00:02:12,196 Speaker 1: What felt different about that crowd? 34 00:02:12,956 --> 00:02:17,156 Speaker 2: Well, I think in America, like it's it's always been intimidating. 35 00:02:17,196 --> 00:02:19,996 Speaker 2: I think as a British artist, you know, the idea 36 00:02:19,996 --> 00:02:25,156 Speaker 2: of like performing in America anyways, just intimidating. And you know, 37 00:02:25,196 --> 00:02:27,476 Speaker 2: I've done quite a few, not loads, but a few 38 00:02:27,516 --> 00:02:31,316 Speaker 2: other festivals out here where you're like, right, we need 39 00:02:31,356 --> 00:02:35,476 Speaker 2: to win the crowd, we need to grow the crowd. Yeah, 40 00:02:35,556 --> 00:02:39,236 Speaker 2: so Coachella just I wasn't expecting it to be that full, 41 00:02:39,436 --> 00:02:42,956 Speaker 2: and people were really engaged and it was really special. 42 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:45,716 Speaker 1: This wasn't a case of you getting your music out 43 00:02:45,756 --> 00:02:47,276 Speaker 1: to a bunch of people at the festival. It's like 44 00:02:47,316 --> 00:02:50,316 Speaker 1: those were people are like now converted, like people are 45 00:02:50,396 --> 00:02:51,076 Speaker 1: Ray fans. 46 00:02:51,436 --> 00:02:53,276 Speaker 2: Do you know what? I do have a habit during 47 00:02:53,436 --> 00:02:58,276 Speaker 2: during shows of really over analyzing everyone's faces. I feel 48 00:02:58,276 --> 00:02:59,916 Speaker 2: like at the beginning of the set, I was like, right, 49 00:02:59,996 --> 00:03:02,956 Speaker 2: I need I was like, right, I need to win. 50 00:03:03,716 --> 00:03:05,956 Speaker 2: I need people to get to know me, you know 51 00:03:06,236 --> 00:03:08,596 Speaker 2: kind of thing. And I always try and leave a 52 00:03:08,596 --> 00:03:10,556 Speaker 2: bit of space. We ended up taking a song or 53 00:03:10,556 --> 00:03:12,956 Speaker 2: two out so that I'd have more time to chat. 54 00:03:12,996 --> 00:03:15,156 Speaker 2: I like to have a little chat some people. She 55 00:03:15,196 --> 00:03:17,196 Speaker 2: needs to stop talking about. I'd just like to talk. 56 00:03:18,636 --> 00:03:20,516 Speaker 2: And I think also it's a case of maybe some 57 00:03:20,556 --> 00:03:23,636 Speaker 2: people have heard the songs or maybe the song that 58 00:03:23,796 --> 00:03:26,276 Speaker 2: started to cross over here, and they're like, let's go 59 00:03:26,316 --> 00:03:28,356 Speaker 2: and see what it's about. And I think my mission 60 00:03:28,396 --> 00:03:31,116 Speaker 2: is always during a performance, I just want people to 61 00:03:31,156 --> 00:03:33,316 Speaker 2: walk away and be like I would see that again, 62 00:03:33,596 --> 00:03:36,316 Speaker 2: or that was good. You know, That's my goal. Yeah, 63 00:03:36,356 --> 00:03:38,196 Speaker 2: and you can see people being one of you know, 64 00:03:38,356 --> 00:03:41,076 Speaker 2: people going from stern faith or just like watching with 65 00:03:41,236 --> 00:03:44,716 Speaker 2: no expression to being like okay, or do you know 66 00:03:44,756 --> 00:03:46,356 Speaker 2: what I mean, You're like way even they're doing it 67 00:03:46,356 --> 00:03:48,796 Speaker 2: and you're like okay, cool, Like you know, have. 68 00:03:48,796 --> 00:03:50,756 Speaker 1: You discovered little things that you can do over the 69 00:03:50,756 --> 00:03:54,916 Speaker 1: course of a set to maybe like reliably win people over. 70 00:03:56,036 --> 00:03:59,676 Speaker 2: I think honesty has always been something that's kind of important. 71 00:03:59,716 --> 00:04:03,996 Speaker 2: I've never really I don't really plan what I say. 72 00:04:04,116 --> 00:04:05,916 Speaker 2: I kind of keep the music. You know, we know 73 00:04:05,956 --> 00:04:08,436 Speaker 2: what we're doing within the songs, but even some of 74 00:04:08,476 --> 00:04:11,796 Speaker 2: the endings of songs we leave space, and I just 75 00:04:11,876 --> 00:04:14,276 Speaker 2: kind of like it to be as open as possible. 76 00:04:14,316 --> 00:04:16,996 Speaker 2: And I think sometimes when you're just playing songs and 77 00:04:17,076 --> 00:04:20,596 Speaker 2: not talking, people can't really get to know you. They're 78 00:04:20,596 --> 00:04:22,476 Speaker 2: just getting to know the music. So I think that's 79 00:04:22,956 --> 00:04:24,916 Speaker 2: an important thing as well. I like to try and 80 00:04:25,316 --> 00:04:28,436 Speaker 2: give a little back story behind whatever this song is 81 00:04:28,436 --> 00:04:30,836 Speaker 2: about or this moment, and just. 82 00:04:30,796 --> 00:04:32,996 Speaker 1: Being not a script your stage banter at all. 83 00:04:33,236 --> 00:04:35,876 Speaker 2: No, So sometimes I'd be like, oh my god, why. 84 00:04:35,676 --> 00:04:38,956 Speaker 1: Did I just say that you halfway through targets, Like 85 00:04:38,956 --> 00:04:41,356 Speaker 1: what am I saying? Yeah? No, there is a lot 86 00:04:41,356 --> 00:04:42,516 Speaker 1: of that when am I going with that? 87 00:04:42,556 --> 00:04:44,836 Speaker 2: I think I even did that. I was like, I 88 00:04:44,876 --> 00:04:47,156 Speaker 2: don't know why, I just told you that, let's move on, 89 00:04:47,756 --> 00:04:48,036 Speaker 2: you know. 90 00:04:48,596 --> 00:04:52,716 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, the way the album came about 91 00:04:52,876 --> 00:04:56,196 Speaker 1: was kind of security's It wasn't a situation where you 92 00:04:56,316 --> 00:04:59,316 Speaker 1: were at a label. It basically there was a lot 93 00:04:59,316 --> 00:05:02,116 Speaker 1: of roadblocks if you want to just I guess walk 94 00:05:02,196 --> 00:05:03,156 Speaker 1: us through some of those. 95 00:05:03,956 --> 00:05:08,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just not necessarily been as simple ten years 96 00:05:08,916 --> 00:05:12,196 Speaker 2: to get to this moment. You know. I was about 97 00:05:12,236 --> 00:05:15,676 Speaker 2: seventeen when I signed my deal, and I was with 98 00:05:15,716 --> 00:05:21,276 Speaker 2: a record label for seven years, and I think, yeah. 99 00:05:20,636 --> 00:05:23,516 Speaker 1: Can we name them? No? I mean, I mean, I 100 00:05:23,556 --> 00:05:24,356 Speaker 1: think it's on the record. 101 00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:29,356 Speaker 2: And you know, I think being a British artist, it's 102 00:05:29,396 --> 00:05:32,396 Speaker 2: a very different world out there. I think it's very 103 00:05:34,116 --> 00:05:39,356 Speaker 2: dance orientated. There are formulas typically that are safer formulas 104 00:05:39,356 --> 00:05:41,596 Speaker 2: that you practice as a songwriter. You know, I started 105 00:05:41,596 --> 00:05:44,636 Speaker 2: in this game as a songwriter from the age of 106 00:05:44,676 --> 00:05:47,636 Speaker 2: fourteen is when I really took it seriously, and I 107 00:05:47,676 --> 00:05:49,596 Speaker 2: was doing sessions off school and stuff, and you kind 108 00:05:49,596 --> 00:05:53,596 Speaker 2: of learn really quickly. Okay, there's a formula to this, 109 00:05:54,396 --> 00:06:00,236 Speaker 2: you know, accessibility, repetition, symmetry, you know, the whole math spine, 110 00:06:00,276 --> 00:06:01,556 Speaker 2: the kind of the songwriting thing, and. 111 00:06:02,236 --> 00:06:04,276 Speaker 1: How did that change your songwriting as a young Like 112 00:06:04,316 --> 00:06:06,556 Speaker 1: when you're fourteen, I imagine you're coming to it pretty pure, 113 00:06:06,676 --> 00:06:09,796 Speaker 1: like just probably just want to do express and eight yeah, 114 00:06:09,836 --> 00:06:11,876 Speaker 1: and then you're realizing there's like a formula. Did that 115 00:06:12,436 --> 00:06:13,916 Speaker 1: change your songwriting. 116 00:06:13,836 --> 00:06:16,436 Speaker 2: Opposed to like change? I think it's just almost a 117 00:06:16,476 --> 00:06:18,956 Speaker 2: world of just gathering skills. You know, when I started 118 00:06:18,956 --> 00:06:21,956 Speaker 2: writing songs, it was very much feeling and freestyling and 119 00:06:22,316 --> 00:06:25,196 Speaker 2: what felt right and being like, oh, I did a 120 00:06:25,196 --> 00:06:28,076 Speaker 2: lot of songwriting in Sweden. There's some incredible pop rous 121 00:06:28,196 --> 00:06:30,436 Speaker 2: songwriters out there, and I used to fly out for 122 00:06:30,476 --> 00:06:32,676 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks at a time and write with 123 00:06:32,796 --> 00:06:34,956 Speaker 2: all the producers and writers to anyone that would let 124 00:06:34,956 --> 00:06:38,356 Speaker 2: me in a session. And from that you're like, oh wow, 125 00:06:38,596 --> 00:06:42,156 Speaker 2: you know, it's not just whatever melody feels nice. It's like, okay, 126 00:06:42,196 --> 00:06:44,236 Speaker 2: we have a melody here. The end of the melody 127 00:06:44,276 --> 00:06:47,476 Speaker 2: is a little bit too complicated. This word doesn't roll 128 00:06:47,476 --> 00:06:49,756 Speaker 2: off the tongue as nice, you know, and chipping away 129 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:52,796 Speaker 2: and sculpting something, so yeah, you know, they're all skills 130 00:06:52,836 --> 00:06:56,916 Speaker 2: that I'm really glad I acquired. And I think for 131 00:06:57,036 --> 00:07:00,596 Speaker 2: different artists and different sounds and different genres, you kind 132 00:07:00,596 --> 00:07:03,316 Speaker 2: of need more of one skill than another and stuff 133 00:07:03,316 --> 00:07:05,476 Speaker 2: like that. But within that space, you know, dance music 134 00:07:05,556 --> 00:07:09,516 Speaker 2: is huge at symmetry and maths and repetition and lyric 135 00:07:09,596 --> 00:07:13,116 Speaker 2: that everyone can relate to and easily digestible and stuff 136 00:07:13,156 --> 00:07:15,956 Speaker 2: like that. So I kind of, from a younger age 137 00:07:15,996 --> 00:07:18,836 Speaker 2: realized I had a knack at being persistent and chipping 138 00:07:18,836 --> 00:07:21,636 Speaker 2: away at something until the artist or the person I 139 00:07:21,676 --> 00:07:23,636 Speaker 2: was writing with was happy and. 140 00:07:23,596 --> 00:07:26,516 Speaker 1: You could take whatever criticism that would come with a 141 00:07:26,636 --> 00:07:27,596 Speaker 1: version one. 142 00:07:28,316 --> 00:07:30,636 Speaker 2: And when writing for someone else, it's not about you know, 143 00:07:30,756 --> 00:07:33,636 Speaker 2: my opinion to a degree, But you know, I'm a 144 00:07:33,636 --> 00:07:35,916 Speaker 2: people pleaser as well, So I'm going to make this song, 145 00:07:35,956 --> 00:07:37,236 Speaker 2: going to do it so they love it. You know, 146 00:07:37,316 --> 00:07:39,396 Speaker 2: it's all a performance as well. In another way, it's 147 00:07:39,476 --> 00:07:42,316 Speaker 2: kind of funny. But yeah, I think when that started 148 00:07:42,316 --> 00:07:46,356 Speaker 2: to cross over and bleed into what my label at 149 00:07:46,356 --> 00:07:50,236 Speaker 2: the time wanted from me, and the goal was selling 150 00:07:50,956 --> 00:07:53,356 Speaker 2: opposed to the art itself, did. 151 00:07:53,196 --> 00:07:55,236 Speaker 1: You know that going in or was that kind of 152 00:07:55,276 --> 00:07:57,156 Speaker 1: a were you blindsided a bit by Oh? 153 00:07:57,196 --> 00:08:00,876 Speaker 2: No, of course not. Yeah, nobody does. Yeah, it's a 154 00:08:00,916 --> 00:08:03,476 Speaker 2: real thing. You know that moment before you put pen 155 00:08:03,556 --> 00:08:08,396 Speaker 2: on paper. Everyone is so nice. They take you for dinners, 156 00:08:09,556 --> 00:08:14,716 Speaker 2: sell you a whole lot of lovely dreams and promises. 157 00:08:14,796 --> 00:08:16,716 Speaker 2: Like some of the things. I was like sixteen years 158 00:08:16,756 --> 00:08:19,316 Speaker 2: old when I started doing the rounds and some of 159 00:08:19,356 --> 00:08:21,476 Speaker 2: the things I heard, Oh my god, I'm not even 160 00:08:21,476 --> 00:08:24,356 Speaker 2: gonna run me on here, because but it's wild. 161 00:08:24,476 --> 00:08:25,116 Speaker 1: What are you wear? 162 00:08:26,076 --> 00:08:29,676 Speaker 2: Something like? You know this? We have this artist said artists. 163 00:08:29,716 --> 00:08:32,196 Speaker 2: I won't even name the name, but they've heard your music. 164 00:08:32,276 --> 00:08:35,396 Speaker 2: They've agreed to endorse you. If you sign with Vice, 165 00:08:36,396 --> 00:08:38,356 Speaker 2: you're going to have this. You're going to have that. 166 00:08:38,516 --> 00:08:41,396 Speaker 2: This isn't even this is just people just talk and 167 00:08:41,956 --> 00:08:46,756 Speaker 2: artists in this stage. No people will say anything to 168 00:08:46,836 --> 00:08:49,196 Speaker 2: get you to put your name on that piece of paper. 169 00:08:49,316 --> 00:08:52,716 Speaker 2: When you're sixteen years old from South London and you're 170 00:08:52,796 --> 00:08:55,956 Speaker 2: like in America doing meetings with these big, huge people, 171 00:08:56,596 --> 00:09:01,556 Speaker 2: it can absolutely just muddel your brain up and false 172 00:09:01,596 --> 00:09:04,196 Speaker 2: hope and a lot of lies, a lot of air 173 00:09:05,236 --> 00:09:08,676 Speaker 2: that's real. I was like, raw, this place is dark. 174 00:09:09,596 --> 00:09:11,956 Speaker 1: How quickly after you put fended papers you realize that, 175 00:09:12,036 --> 00:09:13,956 Speaker 1: oh I just got bamboos. 176 00:09:16,796 --> 00:09:22,596 Speaker 2: Maybe I'd like to say a year in maybe Also 177 00:09:22,676 --> 00:09:26,396 Speaker 2: the guy who had signed me had then left, so 178 00:09:27,076 --> 00:09:29,516 Speaker 2: the dynamics changed pretty quickly after that. 179 00:09:30,516 --> 00:09:33,276 Speaker 1: That's a pretty common story too, I think, I hear, yeah, 180 00:09:33,276 --> 00:09:36,116 Speaker 1: it is your support structure leaves and then you're kind 181 00:09:36,196 --> 00:09:36,636 Speaker 1: of left. 182 00:09:36,876 --> 00:09:40,156 Speaker 2: There's actually a contractual clause called a key Man clause, 183 00:09:40,636 --> 00:09:43,956 Speaker 2: which artists should know about, and I didn't at the time, 184 00:09:44,516 --> 00:09:47,156 Speaker 2: but it means, you know, you get that clause put 185 00:09:47,196 --> 00:09:51,396 Speaker 2: into your contract, means if the person who signs you leaves, 186 00:09:51,476 --> 00:09:54,036 Speaker 2: that you have the right to terminate or move with them. 187 00:09:54,076 --> 00:09:56,836 Speaker 2: It's called a key Man clause, and it's just something 188 00:09:56,876 --> 00:09:58,956 Speaker 2: I wish I knew about when I was seventeen. 189 00:09:59,276 --> 00:10:02,756 Speaker 1: To what extent were you happy with the early phases 190 00:10:02,796 --> 00:10:05,236 Speaker 1: and stages of your career like those first from like 191 00:10:05,356 --> 00:10:07,836 Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen to you know, a couple of years ago, 192 00:10:07,916 --> 00:10:08,716 Speaker 1: only a few years ago. 193 00:10:09,756 --> 00:10:11,996 Speaker 2: Well, I think it was a tricky one because it 194 00:10:12,276 --> 00:10:17,636 Speaker 2: wasn't about my goals. It was about, you know, needing 195 00:10:17,756 --> 00:10:24,676 Speaker 2: to impress these people who basically have my career in 196 00:10:24,756 --> 00:10:27,836 Speaker 2: their hands. You know, they get to decide whether they're 197 00:10:27,876 --> 00:10:30,196 Speaker 2: going to promote something or they're not, whether they're going 198 00:10:30,276 --> 00:10:34,636 Speaker 2: to pause my timeline or help me move things along. 199 00:10:34,756 --> 00:10:37,476 Speaker 2: So you have to play ball, you know, and you 200 00:10:37,596 --> 00:10:41,276 Speaker 2: learn that pretty quick. Yeah, So I did my best 201 00:10:41,316 --> 00:10:44,676 Speaker 2: to do that. The goal always has been since the 202 00:10:44,796 --> 00:10:47,436 Speaker 2: day that I signed to now in my career, to 203 00:10:47,516 --> 00:10:51,036 Speaker 2: be an album's artist. I wanted to release bodies of work, 204 00:10:51,076 --> 00:10:54,876 Speaker 2: and I was really excited to be able to earn 205 00:10:55,396 --> 00:10:59,236 Speaker 2: the right to decide what music I wanted to share. 206 00:10:59,316 --> 00:11:01,476 Speaker 2: And it was kind of always presented that. You know, 207 00:11:01,796 --> 00:11:04,316 Speaker 2: when you have a song that's big enough and you've 208 00:11:04,396 --> 00:11:07,756 Speaker 2: earned an audience that's big enough and wants an album 209 00:11:07,836 --> 00:11:08,916 Speaker 2: from you, that you can do that. 210 00:11:09,236 --> 00:11:13,196 Speaker 1: So, yeah, when did your debut album start coming together? 211 00:11:13,236 --> 00:11:14,076 Speaker 1: When did you record that? 212 00:11:14,796 --> 00:11:18,516 Speaker 2: I would say maybe about four or five years ago. 213 00:11:19,276 --> 00:11:21,156 Speaker 2: Some of the earliest songs started coming together. 214 00:11:22,476 --> 00:11:23,396 Speaker 1: What were the first few? 215 00:11:24,316 --> 00:11:27,316 Speaker 2: Oscar Win in Tears was there for a long time 216 00:11:27,996 --> 00:11:30,916 Speaker 2: hard out Here, but the instrumental was made years ago. 217 00:11:31,476 --> 00:11:32,956 Speaker 2: But then I wrote a whole nother song on top 218 00:11:32,996 --> 00:11:36,236 Speaker 2: of it Worth It was an older one, yeah, A 219 00:11:36,316 --> 00:11:38,476 Speaker 2: couple of songs had just been around for a while. 220 00:11:38,796 --> 00:11:42,076 Speaker 2: Five Stars was an old one, yeah, and I had 221 00:11:42,116 --> 00:11:45,196 Speaker 2: the title about four years ago. It's funny because I 222 00:11:45,316 --> 00:11:47,516 Speaker 2: was going through some of my notebooks at home and 223 00:11:47,596 --> 00:11:52,116 Speaker 2: I found this notebook. It was dated like twenty eighteen 224 00:11:52,316 --> 00:11:54,396 Speaker 2: or something. It said my twenty first century Blues. 225 00:11:55,036 --> 00:11:55,276 Speaker 1: Wow. 226 00:11:55,476 --> 00:11:59,796 Speaker 2: So the title the ideas were forming for a while. 227 00:12:00,036 --> 00:12:02,356 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you remember why that title came to you? 228 00:12:02,436 --> 00:12:03,516 Speaker 1: Why that phrase came to you? 229 00:12:04,436 --> 00:12:06,796 Speaker 2: I don't know completely. What I do know is when 230 00:12:06,836 --> 00:12:09,276 Speaker 2: I was a kid, maybe it was about four ten 231 00:12:09,356 --> 00:12:12,396 Speaker 2: years old, and my dad and my uncle we went 232 00:12:12,476 --> 00:12:14,476 Speaker 2: on a road trip. Basically, we drove through America. We 233 00:12:14,516 --> 00:12:16,356 Speaker 2: started in la and we went all the way through 234 00:12:16,436 --> 00:12:20,716 Speaker 2: to I think it was Atlanta. We ended somewhere and 235 00:12:21,276 --> 00:12:24,516 Speaker 2: we drove all through Nashville, We drove through New Orleans 236 00:12:24,796 --> 00:12:29,396 Speaker 2: and Louisiana. We like did our whole trip. And at 237 00:12:29,476 --> 00:12:32,116 Speaker 2: that time, everywhere we'd drive, we'd put on the local radios, 238 00:12:32,436 --> 00:12:34,036 Speaker 2: you know in the UK. You know, I've listened to 239 00:12:34,076 --> 00:12:37,356 Speaker 2: a lot of gospel and some of the greats, amazing singers, 240 00:12:37,396 --> 00:12:39,116 Speaker 2: but there was so much music and genres I've never 241 00:12:39,276 --> 00:12:41,756 Speaker 2: been exposed to. And I think I had a life 242 00:12:41,876 --> 00:12:44,476 Speaker 2: changing experience when I was in New Orleans, and it 243 00:12:44,596 --> 00:12:47,556 Speaker 2: was at a place called the Preservation Jazz Hall and 244 00:12:48,476 --> 00:12:50,676 Speaker 2: it was like a room, like one hundred and fifty 245 00:12:50,676 --> 00:12:53,636 Speaker 2: people coming to this room and there's just this band. 246 00:12:53,916 --> 00:12:56,196 Speaker 2: And I remember being sat cross legged on the floor. 247 00:12:56,676 --> 00:12:59,436 Speaker 2: I was sat right underneath this guy's trombone. I had 248 00:12:59,516 --> 00:13:03,356 Speaker 2: like spit flying in my face. She sat there like 249 00:13:03,716 --> 00:13:06,476 Speaker 2: wide eyed, just like. 250 00:13:06,756 --> 00:13:07,396 Speaker 1: What is this. 251 00:13:07,676 --> 00:13:10,316 Speaker 2: I'd never experienced anything like it. And it was just 252 00:13:10,436 --> 00:13:13,596 Speaker 2: a fusion of kind of jazz and the blues. And 253 00:13:13,796 --> 00:13:15,476 Speaker 2: I remember being like, whatever this is, I want a 254 00:13:15,516 --> 00:13:17,556 Speaker 2: part of that. And since then, I kind of my 255 00:13:17,716 --> 00:13:20,956 Speaker 2: tastes changed and I just wanted to know more and 256 00:13:21,156 --> 00:13:24,716 Speaker 2: understand more about this feeling, this kind of music. And yeah, 257 00:13:24,836 --> 00:13:28,796 Speaker 2: so although we barely scratch over any kind of blues 258 00:13:28,916 --> 00:13:32,156 Speaker 2: textures in this album, what I fell in love with 259 00:13:32,436 --> 00:13:35,396 Speaker 2: was the songwriting and how you know, we go to 260 00:13:35,516 --> 00:13:37,196 Speaker 2: these bars and you've got people playing. 261 00:13:42,076 --> 00:13:42,276 Speaker 1: Be like. 262 00:13:43,956 --> 00:13:47,916 Speaker 2: When I was a little boy, I went to school 263 00:13:47,996 --> 00:13:52,156 Speaker 2: one day and then I sat on a chair, no 264 00:13:54,276 --> 00:13:57,436 Speaker 2: just say you know what I mean? These stories and 265 00:13:57,516 --> 00:13:59,636 Speaker 2: each one was different. It was the same riff and 266 00:13:59,836 --> 00:14:02,796 Speaker 2: just all these stories and I was like, wow, so 267 00:14:02,956 --> 00:14:04,596 Speaker 2: this is their blues. And I was like, this is 268 00:14:04,676 --> 00:14:07,476 Speaker 2: deep and they're deep stories, moving stories, very honest and 269 00:14:08,036 --> 00:14:11,436 Speaker 2: transparent and clearful, and I fell in love. I'd always 270 00:14:11,476 --> 00:14:14,516 Speaker 2: had this idea if I wanted to make whatever my 271 00:14:15,276 --> 00:14:17,836 Speaker 2: version of the blues is, even though it's not necessarily 272 00:14:17,916 --> 00:14:21,556 Speaker 2: that genre, it's that candidness. 273 00:14:21,356 --> 00:14:23,756 Speaker 1: Well, and there's a bravado on a lot of your 274 00:14:23,876 --> 00:14:25,476 Speaker 1: you know. I don't know if it's like the whole album, 275 00:14:25,476 --> 00:14:28,356 Speaker 1: because there's some very vulnerable bits, but there is an 276 00:14:28,356 --> 00:14:30,956 Speaker 1: added to a backbone to this album for sure that 277 00:14:31,116 --> 00:14:35,876 Speaker 1: runs through it. And I love the book ends. It's like, 278 00:14:36,156 --> 00:14:38,596 Speaker 1: as you put it on, it's like you're being transported 279 00:14:38,676 --> 00:14:41,516 Speaker 1: to like a smokey jazz club, you know what I mean. 280 00:14:41,556 --> 00:14:43,956 Speaker 1: And and by the time it ends, you're right back there, 281 00:14:44,396 --> 00:14:46,156 Speaker 1: and then you're almost ready to play right over again. 282 00:14:46,796 --> 00:14:49,236 Speaker 1: And it's amazing to hear that that stuck with you, 283 00:14:49,356 --> 00:14:51,076 Speaker 1: and then that made it that far from child a 284 00:14:51,156 --> 00:14:53,876 Speaker 1: childhood road trip across the ten through from LA to 285 00:14:53,956 --> 00:14:56,676 Speaker 1: New Orleans and up that that stayed with you all 286 00:14:56,716 --> 00:15:00,276 Speaker 1: these years. It really did. After a quick break, we'll 287 00:15:00,276 --> 00:15:06,916 Speaker 1: be back with more of my conversation with Ray. We're 288 00:15:06,956 --> 00:15:10,196 Speaker 1: back with more from Ray, who referenced wanting to be 289 00:15:10,316 --> 00:15:13,116 Speaker 1: in an album artist. What were some of the albums 290 00:15:13,516 --> 00:15:15,436 Speaker 1: that you grew up on that were like the bed 291 00:15:15,556 --> 00:15:17,356 Speaker 1: rocks for you, like the ones that were like the 292 00:15:17,436 --> 00:15:18,476 Speaker 1: perfect records for you. 293 00:15:18,836 --> 00:15:22,556 Speaker 2: My goodness. The first two albums that played such an 294 00:15:22,596 --> 00:15:26,076 Speaker 2: important part in my childhood was Alicia Keys The Diary 295 00:15:26,116 --> 00:15:29,316 Speaker 2: of Alisha Keys. That was a big one for me. Wow, 296 00:15:29,516 --> 00:15:32,036 Speaker 2: that was the first hard copy album I ever bought. 297 00:15:32,876 --> 00:15:37,116 Speaker 2: And then Who Is Jill Scott? Jill Scott? That blew 298 00:15:37,196 --> 00:15:40,236 Speaker 2: my mind? And I think also like being in the 299 00:15:40,396 --> 00:15:43,236 Speaker 2: UK and just again the stuff we was exposed to. 300 00:15:43,396 --> 00:15:46,996 Speaker 2: And then my uncle shout out. Uncle jose put me 301 00:15:47,156 --> 00:15:50,196 Speaker 2: on to this album. He started with a Long Walk 302 00:15:50,636 --> 00:15:53,436 Speaker 2: and I was listening to this song like she's just 303 00:15:53,676 --> 00:15:57,756 Speaker 2: talking with melodies. You know, you're used to hearing these 304 00:15:57,796 --> 00:16:01,356 Speaker 2: perfect rhyming couplets and everything being whatever, but she's just 305 00:16:01,516 --> 00:16:04,636 Speaker 2: like speaking to you like a conversation, and it was 306 00:16:04,756 --> 00:16:08,436 Speaker 2: so casual the way she would sing that entire album 307 00:16:09,196 --> 00:16:13,116 Speaker 2: blew my mind. Watching me, you know, she's like she's 308 00:16:13,156 --> 00:16:17,356 Speaker 2: talking about CCTV and people watching her like she's just 309 00:16:17,436 --> 00:16:19,396 Speaker 2: gone to the shop to buy some double or triple 310 00:16:19,476 --> 00:16:22,516 Speaker 2: A batteries. She's like checking and see where I go? 311 00:16:22,916 --> 00:16:26,036 Speaker 2: Who I be? How where with who I make my money? 312 00:16:26,596 --> 00:16:27,556 Speaker 1: What is this? 313 00:16:28,356 --> 00:16:31,316 Speaker 2: Excuse me? Miss may, I have your telephone number and 314 00:16:31,396 --> 00:16:34,796 Speaker 2: your social security She's like, who me? It's like literally 315 00:16:35,276 --> 00:16:39,036 Speaker 2: telling I was like, what is happening? It completely blew 316 00:16:39,116 --> 00:16:40,756 Speaker 2: my mind and I fell in love. So those were 317 00:16:40,796 --> 00:16:42,836 Speaker 2: like two really important albums in my childhood. 318 00:16:42,876 --> 00:16:45,156 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about your relationship with 319 00:16:45,276 --> 00:16:48,396 Speaker 1: hip hop because it feels like there's a certain cadence 320 00:16:48,436 --> 00:16:50,676 Speaker 1: that you can get into sometimes that that would also 321 00:16:50,756 --> 00:16:52,516 Speaker 1: explain it a lot too, Like that kind of being 322 00:16:52,556 --> 00:16:54,756 Speaker 1: able to where it's like are you talking? Are you singing? 323 00:16:54,876 --> 00:16:58,116 Speaker 2: Kind of doing both Jills Queen of that isn't it? 324 00:16:58,396 --> 00:17:00,396 Speaker 1: And then sometimes you just like she'll be doing that 325 00:17:00,476 --> 00:17:03,716 Speaker 1: and then just take off to whoa Okay, I forgot 326 00:17:03,796 --> 00:17:05,116 Speaker 1: who was right? 327 00:17:05,236 --> 00:17:08,036 Speaker 2: And it's also so free, you know with her. I 328 00:17:08,196 --> 00:17:11,956 Speaker 2: love her style of you feel like anything could happen, 329 00:17:12,076 --> 00:17:14,876 Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? It doesn't feel too perfect. 330 00:17:15,036 --> 00:17:18,076 Speaker 2: It just feels so authentic. And I've always loved her 331 00:17:18,076 --> 00:17:21,076 Speaker 2: about her the way she sings and performs as well. Yeah. 332 00:17:21,716 --> 00:17:23,236 Speaker 1: Were you listening to a lot of hip hop too 333 00:17:23,356 --> 00:17:23,756 Speaker 1: growing up? 334 00:17:24,316 --> 00:17:26,876 Speaker 2: Yeah? A fair amount. I mean I did get to 335 00:17:26,956 --> 00:17:29,116 Speaker 2: that age where like Party next Door was my everything 336 00:17:29,236 --> 00:17:31,396 Speaker 2: that's not really hip hop, but you know Drake the 337 00:17:31,476 --> 00:17:33,756 Speaker 2: Weekends Party next Door, you know that era we all 338 00:17:33,876 --> 00:17:34,596 Speaker 2: had where we're. 339 00:17:34,476 --> 00:17:37,796 Speaker 1: All like, oh my god, going up on a Tuesday. 340 00:17:38,036 --> 00:17:43,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Other Weekend's first album was was a big one, 341 00:17:43,956 --> 00:17:47,356 Speaker 2: the trilogy. Yeah, But in terms of like hip hop, 342 00:17:47,476 --> 00:17:50,156 Speaker 2: I don't know what kind of exposed to some different stuff. 343 00:17:50,196 --> 00:17:51,796 Speaker 2: I was exposed to a lot grown up and like 344 00:17:51,876 --> 00:17:53,316 Speaker 2: different family members as well. 345 00:17:53,716 --> 00:17:55,076 Speaker 1: Did you see Uncle Jose. 346 00:17:55,236 --> 00:17:59,596 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's actually lives in America. So my mum and 347 00:17:59,796 --> 00:18:03,916 Speaker 2: my uncle were both raised in Ghana. When they're about 348 00:18:03,956 --> 00:18:06,476 Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty three, mum moved to the UK 349 00:18:07,116 --> 00:18:11,436 Speaker 2: and Uncle Jose moved to America. And he's always been 350 00:18:11,556 --> 00:18:15,756 Speaker 2: so supportive as well, Like he bought me my first laptop, 351 00:18:15,916 --> 00:18:18,196 Speaker 2: my MacBook where I used to start making sessions on 352 00:18:18,276 --> 00:18:19,876 Speaker 2: garage band and stuff like that when I was about 353 00:18:19,916 --> 00:18:23,836 Speaker 2: thirteen for my thirteenth birthday, and so I started making 354 00:18:23,836 --> 00:18:26,116 Speaker 2: a lot of demos on there and it really helped 355 00:18:26,156 --> 00:18:29,556 Speaker 2: spark my passion for production and vocal production and just 356 00:18:29,636 --> 00:18:32,796 Speaker 2: making music in general. It's so funny because even though 357 00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:36,836 Speaker 2: none of us before me and my sisters had ever 358 00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:39,076 Speaker 2: practiced music. It was always the desire for it and 359 00:18:39,156 --> 00:18:41,796 Speaker 2: the passion for it was always in the blood. I'd say, 360 00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:45,436 Speaker 2: like my dad's dad, he used to write songs. He 361 00:18:45,556 --> 00:18:48,276 Speaker 2: used to want to be a songwriter professionally in a 362 00:18:48,316 --> 00:18:53,516 Speaker 2: little town in England, north of England, Yorkshire. He used 363 00:18:53,556 --> 00:18:56,316 Speaker 2: to write songs on record them onto tape and score 364 00:18:56,356 --> 00:18:59,076 Speaker 2: it out and write the lyrics, and he'd send a 365 00:18:59,156 --> 00:19:01,716 Speaker 2: box of tapes and the sheet music to record labels 366 00:19:01,756 --> 00:19:05,116 Speaker 2: in London, hoping that you know, someone might hear his 367 00:19:05,276 --> 00:19:08,756 Speaker 2: songs and like it. And I can't even be too 368 00:19:08,836 --> 00:19:11,676 Speaker 2: can But he did have a song stolen from him 369 00:19:12,196 --> 00:19:14,636 Speaker 2: that turned out to be really successful. But you know, 370 00:19:14,676 --> 00:19:16,596 Speaker 2: theres a lot of songwriters it happened for back in 371 00:19:16,676 --> 00:19:19,556 Speaker 2: the day. He didn't get credited and no one believed him, 372 00:19:19,596 --> 00:19:21,996 Speaker 2: and he had no way legally to prove it because 373 00:19:21,996 --> 00:19:24,436 Speaker 2: he didn't have the money to do that, and then 374 00:19:24,476 --> 00:19:26,476 Speaker 2: he gave up on his dream then and there. It's 375 00:19:26,516 --> 00:19:30,596 Speaker 2: so funny that I was a kid and I didn't 376 00:19:30,596 --> 00:19:33,036 Speaker 2: even know the story, and I'm like, I just want 377 00:19:33,076 --> 00:19:35,516 Speaker 2: to write music. So it's funny at that time, No, 378 00:19:35,676 --> 00:19:38,036 Speaker 2: I was like seven eight nine when I was like 379 00:19:38,716 --> 00:19:44,356 Speaker 2: making silly, weird poems and copying the melodies i'd hear 380 00:19:44,476 --> 00:19:47,716 Speaker 2: in the TV kids shows I was watching. And I 381 00:19:47,876 --> 00:19:51,116 Speaker 2: remember one time I was watching this like TV show 382 00:19:51,636 --> 00:19:53,396 Speaker 2: and I liked the melody. It was like this kind 383 00:19:53,436 --> 00:19:58,196 Speaker 2: of jazzy and I was about eight, and I pretended 384 00:19:58,276 --> 00:20:00,596 Speaker 2: that I wrote it, but I just changed all the words. 385 00:20:00,956 --> 00:20:02,676 Speaker 2: And then I went to dad, my dad, and I 386 00:20:02,796 --> 00:20:06,196 Speaker 2: was like, listen to this song I wrote, and he 387 00:20:06,396 --> 00:20:08,756 Speaker 2: was blown away, but I didn't tell him I'd stolen 388 00:20:08,796 --> 00:20:10,996 Speaker 2: the song and just change the lyrics to some terrible 389 00:20:11,596 --> 00:20:14,596 Speaker 2: lyrics about snowfalling and a Christmas song. It was so bad. 390 00:20:14,836 --> 00:20:17,676 Speaker 2: I like, how that still sticks with you somewhere, like 391 00:20:17,756 --> 00:20:21,836 Speaker 2: I'm afraid of plagiarism. But then I realized that's what songwriters. 392 00:20:21,876 --> 00:20:25,396 Speaker 2: Some songwriters do that, or it's sampling essentially. 393 00:20:25,676 --> 00:20:28,836 Speaker 1: Yeah, way to get started, you know, like copy a 394 00:20:28,916 --> 00:20:31,796 Speaker 1: bit and the lyrics so you can figure out how 395 00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:33,796 Speaker 1: to do a whole class. Yeah. 396 00:20:34,516 --> 00:20:37,596 Speaker 2: But yeah, it's always been in the my family. We 397 00:20:37,756 --> 00:20:40,036 Speaker 2: love music. You know. I grew up in church as well. 398 00:20:40,196 --> 00:20:41,916 Speaker 2: My dad and mom used to sing. Mom used to 399 00:20:41,916 --> 00:20:44,316 Speaker 2: sing in the choir. Dad used to leave worship so 400 00:20:44,836 --> 00:20:48,476 Speaker 2: I grew up watching and listening to music being sung 401 00:20:48,596 --> 00:20:49,676 Speaker 2: every Sunday. 402 00:20:49,636 --> 00:20:51,196 Speaker 1: In like in a church where you grew up, what 403 00:20:51,316 --> 00:20:53,516 Speaker 1: was leading worship? Like would that entails? 404 00:20:53,556 --> 00:20:55,876 Speaker 2: It was like, I don't know, like it's not a 405 00:20:55,956 --> 00:20:59,076 Speaker 2: big church that maybe forty or fifty people, you know 406 00:20:59,716 --> 00:21:02,436 Speaker 2: in a church in Tooting in South London where I 407 00:21:02,476 --> 00:21:05,516 Speaker 2: grew up, and my mom and dad would. 408 00:21:05,396 --> 00:21:08,516 Speaker 1: Just sing so like a gospel choir. 409 00:21:09,236 --> 00:21:11,476 Speaker 2: No, it's not big, like you know in America, you 410 00:21:11,516 --> 00:21:15,116 Speaker 2: guys have an amazing like huge production set ups, like 411 00:21:15,396 --> 00:21:18,836 Speaker 2: amazing music. You know, this is very like down to 412 00:21:18,956 --> 00:21:21,596 Speaker 2: earth from the heart, very. 413 00:21:23,556 --> 00:21:28,796 Speaker 1: Direct from you guys to God in the gospel. 414 00:21:28,956 --> 00:21:30,236 Speaker 2: You know, come as you are mate. 415 00:21:30,276 --> 00:21:35,276 Speaker 1: You know, did you listen to much gospel? 416 00:21:35,876 --> 00:21:38,556 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, Yeah, growing up with a lot of Kurt 417 00:21:38,636 --> 00:21:42,276 Speaker 2: Franklin and Donnie McClerkin and some amazing music I was 418 00:21:42,316 --> 00:21:45,116 Speaker 2: exposed to from a really young age. And I think 419 00:21:45,116 --> 00:21:48,596 Speaker 2: about gospel as well, is it's just musically so complex. 420 00:21:49,156 --> 00:21:51,116 Speaker 2: I don't even think gospel gets enough credit for how 421 00:21:51,236 --> 00:21:54,716 Speaker 2: technically difficult it is to really execute those things. You know, 422 00:21:54,836 --> 00:21:58,356 Speaker 2: you have them mds live in the church on a 423 00:21:58,436 --> 00:22:04,156 Speaker 2: microphone like okay, we're going to chord four and then five. Hold, hold, hold, 424 00:22:04,316 --> 00:22:07,196 Speaker 2: we're going six to seven, don't. I'm like, this is 425 00:22:07,356 --> 00:22:08,196 Speaker 2: serious practice. 426 00:22:08,316 --> 00:22:11,596 Speaker 1: Oh for real, it's not joke. No, it's great. I 427 00:22:11,676 --> 00:22:13,596 Speaker 1: want to go back now. So you have a few 428 00:22:13,716 --> 00:22:17,436 Speaker 1: songs for my twenty fifth Century Blues. You're still with Polydor. 429 00:22:17,596 --> 00:22:19,996 Speaker 1: You're kind of getting the run around what happens next. 430 00:22:20,676 --> 00:22:25,596 Speaker 2: The understanding from my perspective also was if I was 431 00:22:25,676 --> 00:22:27,076 Speaker 2: going to do an album, it would need to be 432 00:22:27,156 --> 00:22:29,796 Speaker 2: a dance album. So my twenty first Century Blues kind 433 00:22:29,796 --> 00:22:32,516 Speaker 2: of got put on the back burner and I was 434 00:22:32,596 --> 00:22:36,196 Speaker 2: working on a record I needed to hand in songs 435 00:22:37,116 --> 00:22:39,716 Speaker 2: one p fifteen bpm or above, like it needed to 436 00:22:39,756 --> 00:22:44,156 Speaker 2: be like that kind of sound. So, as far as 437 00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:47,996 Speaker 2: my constraints allowed, I set out to make an album 438 00:22:48,116 --> 00:22:50,556 Speaker 2: that I was going to call dark dance Songs, and 439 00:22:50,756 --> 00:22:53,236 Speaker 2: it was going to be minor. And I'd say the 440 00:22:53,316 --> 00:22:55,196 Speaker 2: closest thing I had to it was that black mascara 441 00:22:55,236 --> 00:22:56,996 Speaker 2: which I put on my twenty fifth Century Blues. It 442 00:22:57,116 --> 00:22:59,516 Speaker 2: was all this kind of I was trying to find 443 00:22:59,556 --> 00:23:02,316 Speaker 2: my compromise, and then yeah, it just ended up that, 444 00:23:02,636 --> 00:23:05,876 Speaker 2: you know, I had a new person who just joined 445 00:23:05,916 --> 00:23:07,916 Speaker 2: our team and started working as my day to day 446 00:23:08,516 --> 00:23:10,356 Speaker 2: and she was supposed to tell me we were in 447 00:23:10,396 --> 00:23:12,556 Speaker 2: the middle of a shoot for something else. You know, 448 00:23:12,636 --> 00:23:14,956 Speaker 2: I'm like maybe four or five months into writing this album, 449 00:23:15,076 --> 00:23:17,836 Speaker 2: and I'm becoming invested and I'm excited about what it's 450 00:23:17,876 --> 00:23:20,676 Speaker 2: going to be. And then she'd basically just said that 451 00:23:21,156 --> 00:23:23,596 Speaker 2: if this song you've just put out doesn't do good, 452 00:23:24,156 --> 00:23:25,556 Speaker 2: You're not going to be able to do the album. 453 00:23:25,716 --> 00:23:28,156 Speaker 2: It just got really messy, and I was just I 454 00:23:28,356 --> 00:23:30,636 Speaker 2: hit just a boiling point, a breaking point. I was 455 00:23:30,716 --> 00:23:36,276 Speaker 2: so angry and so frustrated and so pissed off. I 456 00:23:36,436 --> 00:23:40,276 Speaker 2: felt like just I was just getting treated so unfairly, 457 00:23:41,196 --> 00:23:44,516 Speaker 2: and I've been trying so desperately for the last seven 458 00:23:44,596 --> 00:23:46,876 Speaker 2: years to prove to them that I am a musician, Like, look, 459 00:23:46,876 --> 00:23:49,276 Speaker 2: I'm writing for this person, Like are you proud of 460 00:23:49,356 --> 00:23:49,596 Speaker 2: me yet? 461 00:23:49,716 --> 00:23:51,676 Speaker 1: Like I was just so desperate who are you're writing for? 462 00:23:51,796 --> 00:23:55,476 Speaker 2: At that time, you know, I had a good healthy 463 00:23:55,516 --> 00:23:57,956 Speaker 2: amount of cuts, you know, in the dance world and 464 00:23:58,196 --> 00:24:03,396 Speaker 2: with some girl bands and some solo artists, and I'd 465 00:24:03,436 --> 00:24:07,636 Speaker 2: been doing good things and every time I remember, every 466 00:24:07,676 --> 00:24:09,436 Speaker 2: time I get caught, I'd kind of want to tell 467 00:24:09,476 --> 00:24:11,196 Speaker 2: them and be like, look, look, I was just so 468 00:24:11,516 --> 00:24:16,396 Speaker 2: desperate for them to believe in me. Really, I've really 469 00:24:16,516 --> 00:24:18,476 Speaker 2: tried so hard to achieve that and I just failed. 470 00:24:19,316 --> 00:24:21,196 Speaker 2: So yeah, it just got to a breaking point. 471 00:24:21,796 --> 00:24:25,116 Speaker 1: Yeah so I know you sent a tweet out at 472 00:24:25,156 --> 00:24:27,676 Speaker 1: some point? Was that a spur of the moment thing? 473 00:24:27,956 --> 00:24:30,876 Speaker 1: Was that calculated like let me just try something here? 474 00:24:31,116 --> 00:24:35,476 Speaker 2: Or what was the zero strategy and planning into that? 475 00:24:36,476 --> 00:24:39,916 Speaker 2: Not tell you? I just was like in my head, 476 00:24:39,996 --> 00:24:42,276 Speaker 2: what the F do I have to lose? Like I 477 00:24:42,356 --> 00:24:45,516 Speaker 2: have nothing to lose. I was at a point where 478 00:24:45,516 --> 00:24:47,596 Speaker 2: I was like, I would rather just be a songwriter, 479 00:24:48,476 --> 00:24:51,236 Speaker 2: like I've seven years is a long time, especially from 480 00:24:51,276 --> 00:24:53,356 Speaker 2: a kid, you know, and then that pressure of that, 481 00:24:53,556 --> 00:24:55,516 Speaker 2: I think it's a lie personally, but that pressure of 482 00:24:55,996 --> 00:24:57,796 Speaker 2: you know, when you're young, it's exciting and as you 483 00:24:57,876 --> 00:25:00,916 Speaker 2: grow up you're going to miss your window, especially as 484 00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:03,076 Speaker 2: a woman, like these lies you hear and Yeah, just 485 00:25:03,156 --> 00:25:04,756 Speaker 2: got to a place where if this is what it 486 00:25:04,836 --> 00:25:06,236 Speaker 2: is to be an artist, I don't want to do this. 487 00:25:06,476 --> 00:25:08,916 Speaker 2: I hate some of these songs I'm putting my name 488 00:25:08,956 --> 00:25:11,236 Speaker 2: to that. I'm out here smiling and returning her like 489 00:25:11,476 --> 00:25:16,196 Speaker 2: trying to sell this is like soul destroying, especially when 490 00:25:16,836 --> 00:25:19,716 Speaker 2: I'm like in love with my craft. I'm in love 491 00:25:19,756 --> 00:25:21,836 Speaker 2: with music. I was a kid when I decided to 492 00:25:21,876 --> 00:25:26,196 Speaker 2: dedicate my life to work in music and wanting to 493 00:25:26,276 --> 00:25:30,756 Speaker 2: pursue a career, and it was breaking my heart. It 494 00:25:30,916 --> 00:25:33,956 Speaker 2: was just making me so sad. Yeah, So I just 495 00:25:34,036 --> 00:25:35,716 Speaker 2: got to a point. We just moved house and I 496 00:25:35,836 --> 00:25:39,476 Speaker 2: was in my room. It didn't have a bed in it, 497 00:25:39,556 --> 00:25:41,556 Speaker 2: so I just remember being like on a block mattress 498 00:25:41,596 --> 00:25:43,876 Speaker 2: on the floor, and the only thing I had in 499 00:25:43,956 --> 00:25:47,036 Speaker 2: my room was a picture of Nina Simone and under 500 00:25:47,076 --> 00:25:49,076 Speaker 2: it it said a quote it's an artist's duty to 501 00:25:49,156 --> 00:25:51,956 Speaker 2: reflect the times. And I remember sat there in tears, like, 502 00:25:52,676 --> 00:25:56,596 Speaker 2: what the hell am I doing. I'm not doing anything important, 503 00:25:56,876 --> 00:26:00,476 Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything that feels right. Nina would be 504 00:26:01,476 --> 00:26:06,436 Speaker 2: so disgusted by everything I put to my name. She 505 00:26:06,516 --> 00:26:08,956 Speaker 2: would be like, ill get her out of my face. 506 00:26:09,196 --> 00:26:13,076 Speaker 2: I was like, what have I become like? And I 507 00:26:13,196 --> 00:26:16,916 Speaker 2: said no, no, no, and I just let it rip. 508 00:26:17,556 --> 00:26:19,276 Speaker 1: That's a very needless, a long thing to do. Let 509 00:26:19,316 --> 00:26:21,596 Speaker 1: it rip. I mean, thankfully it all worked out. I suppose, 510 00:26:21,756 --> 00:26:24,236 Speaker 1: as the story goes from that tweet, do you guys 511 00:26:24,316 --> 00:26:26,036 Speaker 1: work something out so they let you go. Does that 512 00:26:26,116 --> 00:26:27,996 Speaker 1: go back to that clause the key man. 513 00:26:28,236 --> 00:26:31,316 Speaker 2: No, I sadly never had that clause in my contract. 514 00:26:31,676 --> 00:26:35,476 Speaker 2: I think I just got so lucky in that people 515 00:26:36,196 --> 00:26:39,436 Speaker 2: decided to care about what I'd shared. And I think 516 00:26:39,676 --> 00:26:41,716 Speaker 2: probably there's also a lot of people unaware of all 517 00:26:41,756 --> 00:26:44,076 Speaker 2: the ins and outs of what goes on behind closed doors. 518 00:26:44,956 --> 00:26:46,916 Speaker 2: And I had a lot of news platforms in the 519 00:26:47,036 --> 00:26:50,356 Speaker 2: UK reaching out, wanting to have a conversation and wanting 520 00:26:50,396 --> 00:26:55,436 Speaker 2: to understand more about what's going on and what it 521 00:26:55,476 --> 00:26:58,156 Speaker 2: can be like for a lot of artists sometimes when 522 00:26:58,236 --> 00:27:03,396 Speaker 2: you're having difficulties on seeing eye to eye with the 523 00:27:03,516 --> 00:27:08,116 Speaker 2: teams that you're contractually bound to, and that became leverage 524 00:27:09,116 --> 00:27:13,316 Speaker 2: and I was able to be like, respectfully, let's leave 525 00:27:13,356 --> 00:27:14,516 Speaker 2: this here now and. 526 00:27:14,556 --> 00:27:17,556 Speaker 1: Then you get to put out your album independently. Yeah. 527 00:27:17,876 --> 00:27:19,916 Speaker 1: I don't know that it could have worked out more 528 00:27:20,036 --> 00:27:21,076 Speaker 1: perfectly in the end. 529 00:27:21,556 --> 00:27:24,716 Speaker 2: No, it's honestly how everything's turned out, is all I 530 00:27:24,796 --> 00:27:27,396 Speaker 2: can describe it as is a series of just miracle 531 00:27:27,516 --> 00:27:31,916 Speaker 2: after miracle. I think I was so overwhelmed at how 532 00:27:32,036 --> 00:27:34,676 Speaker 2: much music of mine was already out there in the world. 533 00:27:34,796 --> 00:27:36,676 Speaker 2: In my head, I was like, how could I possibly 534 00:27:36,836 --> 00:27:40,076 Speaker 2: change the narrative? In the UK, people see me as 535 00:27:41,076 --> 00:27:45,556 Speaker 2: a feature vocalist, a voice like, who's going to care? 536 00:27:45,676 --> 00:27:45,836 Speaker 1: You know? 537 00:27:46,596 --> 00:27:53,116 Speaker 2: I just got so ridiculously lucky and Escapism receiving so 538 00:27:53,276 --> 00:27:56,276 Speaker 2: much attention on TikTok and then all of its suddenly 539 00:27:56,356 --> 00:28:00,236 Speaker 2: getting pushed out to all these new ears and that's 540 00:28:00,276 --> 00:28:02,636 Speaker 2: the first they've heard of me, and that's so it 541 00:28:02,796 --> 00:28:06,796 Speaker 2: was so exciting and like, wow, you know, anything really 542 00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:07,476 Speaker 2: is possible. 543 00:28:07,916 --> 00:28:10,036 Speaker 1: Were you shocked by the reception of Escapism? 544 00:28:10,356 --> 00:28:13,556 Speaker 2: Oh? Completely, yeah. But I was also so happy because 545 00:28:13,636 --> 00:28:17,236 Speaker 2: I love that song. I remember when we put that out. 546 00:28:17,356 --> 00:28:20,756 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Like, if only people were going to 547 00:28:20,796 --> 00:28:23,036 Speaker 2: be able to hear this song that was my thing 548 00:28:23,116 --> 00:28:25,516 Speaker 2: in my head. I was like, oh, just if people 549 00:28:25,556 --> 00:28:28,476 Speaker 2: could just hear this song, you know. I remember me 550 00:28:28,516 --> 00:28:30,476 Speaker 2: and my dad was talking. I was like, Dad, could 551 00:28:30,516 --> 00:28:36,036 Speaker 2: you imagine, Yeah, if something crazy happened and Escapism just 552 00:28:36,276 --> 00:28:38,836 Speaker 2: went really big and became number one, we looked at 553 00:28:38,836 --> 00:28:40,796 Speaker 2: each other and we were like, ah, ha ha, that'll 554 00:28:40,876 --> 00:28:46,436 Speaker 2: never happened. I remember that conversation clear as day. I 555 00:28:46,516 --> 00:28:48,076 Speaker 2: was like, could you imagine? He was like, yeah, I 556 00:28:48,076 --> 00:28:51,476 Speaker 2: could imagine. That would be crazy right, and then bang. 557 00:28:52,836 --> 00:28:55,916 Speaker 1: Fruish. Why did you write that song in Utah? 558 00:28:56,356 --> 00:28:56,836 Speaker 2: Yeah? I did. 559 00:28:57,116 --> 00:28:57,996 Speaker 1: What's the story on that? 560 00:28:58,796 --> 00:29:01,236 Speaker 2: We took a road trip another road trip. 561 00:29:01,356 --> 00:29:02,796 Speaker 1: I like, good for you. 562 00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:05,596 Speaker 2: I like a car. I like a long drive. And 563 00:29:05,716 --> 00:29:07,556 Speaker 2: also it's good to get out of the city. I 564 00:29:07,636 --> 00:29:08,996 Speaker 2: think when you're in a city and you know, be 565 00:29:09,316 --> 00:29:11,796 Speaker 2: there or whatever, it can be distracting and you could 566 00:29:11,796 --> 00:29:13,476 Speaker 2: be like someone like do you want to do this? 567 00:29:13,716 --> 00:29:15,676 Speaker 2: La la la, and you just want to go somewhere 568 00:29:15,676 --> 00:29:18,516 Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere where you're just in a 569 00:29:18,596 --> 00:29:21,636 Speaker 2: peaceful place and you just have to be present. It 570 00:29:21,796 --> 00:29:26,196 Speaker 2: was nice never No. All the two people I went 571 00:29:26,276 --> 00:29:28,316 Speaker 2: with are good at skiing. I'm not very good at 572 00:29:28,316 --> 00:29:31,356 Speaker 2: save only skied once before in the school trip. I 573 00:29:31,476 --> 00:29:34,556 Speaker 2: decided to join them for skiing in between writing, and 574 00:29:35,196 --> 00:29:37,836 Speaker 2: it was a disaster. These two are like cross country, 575 00:29:37,956 --> 00:29:41,636 Speaker 2: like off Pieced Mountain, freaking skiers. Yeah, they're like, don't worry, 576 00:29:41,716 --> 00:29:46,596 Speaker 2: we'll stay together, We'll go slow. I took a wrong 577 00:29:46,716 --> 00:29:50,036 Speaker 2: turn in black Run. What the only way is down? 578 00:29:50,116 --> 00:29:50,156 Speaker 1: This? 579 00:29:50,516 --> 00:29:52,396 Speaker 2: Whatever? Foot drop? Absolutely not? 580 00:29:52,756 --> 00:29:53,156 Speaker 1: Whatuld you do? 581 00:29:53,356 --> 00:29:54,996 Speaker 2: And my friend's screaming at me, like you have to 582 00:29:55,116 --> 00:29:59,716 Speaker 2: ski down? I was like bitch, I skiing down, I'm walking. 583 00:29:59,796 --> 00:30:01,996 Speaker 2: She's like free sure, And there's all these like four 584 00:30:02,076 --> 00:30:04,716 Speaker 2: year old kids like just gunning it down the hill. 585 00:30:06,796 --> 00:30:10,036 Speaker 2: Took me about an hour to get down. It was hell. 586 00:30:10,996 --> 00:30:12,356 Speaker 2: After that, I left them to it. I went sat 587 00:30:12,356 --> 00:30:15,076 Speaker 2: on the campfire near the entrance and just made friends. 588 00:30:15,436 --> 00:30:17,436 Speaker 2: But yeah, skiing, it's gonna be a while before I 589 00:30:17,516 --> 00:30:17,956 Speaker 2: go back there. 590 00:30:18,356 --> 00:30:20,276 Speaker 1: Maybe take some time on there. Yeah, yeah. 591 00:30:20,276 --> 00:30:22,876 Speaker 2: But the songwriting was productive. We were there for seven 592 00:30:22,996 --> 00:30:25,836 Speaker 2: days and it was such a nice time and we 593 00:30:26,036 --> 00:30:29,556 Speaker 2: wrote basically the other half of the album that was missing. 594 00:30:30,196 --> 00:30:33,716 Speaker 2: It all started with titles. Titles are usually how a 595 00:30:33,876 --> 00:30:37,316 Speaker 2: song will start for me, So I had title Mary Jane, 596 00:30:37,556 --> 00:30:41,996 Speaker 2: environment and anxiety. Escape is body dysmorphia. So those were 597 00:30:42,036 --> 00:30:44,556 Speaker 2: my four titles. There was one or two more that 598 00:30:44,636 --> 00:30:45,836 Speaker 2: we wrote, but that didn't make. 599 00:30:45,756 --> 00:30:50,356 Speaker 1: It Environmental Anxiety. Speaking of the Nina Simone quote in 600 00:30:50,476 --> 00:30:52,236 Speaker 1: artists duty is to reflect the times your I mean 601 00:30:52,996 --> 00:30:57,716 Speaker 1: is so intense. How did you capture that so well? 602 00:30:58,196 --> 00:31:00,796 Speaker 2: We booked a log cabin and we were staring it 603 00:31:00,916 --> 00:31:03,476 Speaker 2: across it was like a mountain in some trees and 604 00:31:03,516 --> 00:31:05,436 Speaker 2: we were like, wow, that so beautiful. Was in the 605 00:31:05,516 --> 00:31:09,716 Speaker 2: morning and Mike Sabbath, the producer who I made this 606 00:31:09,876 --> 00:31:13,596 Speaker 2: album with. The guy is so eccentric. We got downstairs 607 00:31:13,636 --> 00:31:15,756 Speaker 2: and he'd made this little like oh no, no, it's 608 00:31:15,836 --> 00:31:18,596 Speaker 2: like weird like sound. He'd like morphed his voice to 609 00:31:18,636 --> 00:31:20,396 Speaker 2: sound like a chipmunk l whatever, and it's just looping 610 00:31:20,476 --> 00:31:23,076 Speaker 2: around and around and just playing these weird bells. And 611 00:31:23,156 --> 00:31:25,396 Speaker 2: I was like, Mike, you've lost your absolute mind, but like, 612 00:31:25,556 --> 00:31:27,756 Speaker 2: let's fucking go, do you know what I mean? And 613 00:31:27,836 --> 00:31:29,676 Speaker 2: we were looking at the view and we was like, damn, 614 00:31:29,956 --> 00:31:32,116 Speaker 2: like we're being so cruel to our planet. And we 615 00:31:32,236 --> 00:31:34,316 Speaker 2: just started on a tangent, you know. And I think 616 00:31:34,316 --> 00:31:35,956 Speaker 2: it's something a lot of us are worried about but 617 00:31:36,036 --> 00:31:40,836 Speaker 2: are powerless to really do any actual change, or it's 618 00:31:40,876 --> 00:31:44,476 Speaker 2: something that needs to come from our governments. Yeah, a 619 00:31:44,516 --> 00:31:45,356 Speaker 2: lot of people don't care. 620 00:31:45,676 --> 00:31:47,396 Speaker 1: You kind of sum it all up and put a 621 00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:50,676 Speaker 1: bow on it in like three minutes and ten seconds. 622 00:31:50,716 --> 00:31:53,356 Speaker 1: It's like, yoh wow, like you kind of like distill 623 00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:57,076 Speaker 1: all the anxieties of kind of our world at large 624 00:31:57,236 --> 00:32:01,316 Speaker 1: and all the problems and issues and and Boris johnson'sn't cooking. 625 00:32:04,076 --> 00:32:07,196 Speaker 2: We all know that's true, but come on, it seems 626 00:32:07,236 --> 00:32:11,076 Speaker 2: seems like it's true this article, yeah, which is so funny. 627 00:32:11,516 --> 00:32:14,356 Speaker 2: But they tested the sewage. I don't know who was 628 00:32:14,436 --> 00:32:17,236 Speaker 2: testing the sewage of the houzards of Parliament and they 629 00:32:17,356 --> 00:32:21,636 Speaker 2: found such a high concentration of cocaine in the sewage. 630 00:32:22,556 --> 00:32:24,196 Speaker 2: I don't even know if we should be talking about this. 631 00:32:24,636 --> 00:32:27,596 Speaker 2: But meanwhile, you're arresting kids with possession of smoking a 632 00:32:27,636 --> 00:32:29,596 Speaker 2: little bit of weed on the street, I mean, putting 633 00:32:29,596 --> 00:32:31,756 Speaker 2: them in jail for that. Meanwhile, you're all in there 634 00:32:31,796 --> 00:32:34,836 Speaker 2: doing coke. It's just not fair. None of it's fair, 635 00:32:34,956 --> 00:32:35,116 Speaker 2: is it. 636 00:32:35,636 --> 00:32:37,716 Speaker 1: But I'm glad you're speaking to someone like you. 637 00:32:38,116 --> 00:32:40,476 Speaker 2: May we gotta put these things on blasts. It's incorrect. 638 00:32:40,556 --> 00:32:43,036 Speaker 1: It's beautiful song. So those are all voices on that intro, right, 639 00:32:43,476 --> 00:32:45,596 Speaker 1: all those sounds, it's all a voice manipulated. And then 640 00:32:45,636 --> 00:32:48,796 Speaker 1: your voice incredible. You harmonize with yourself really well. 641 00:32:48,996 --> 00:32:51,556 Speaker 2: I love harmonies. When a voice can become a pad 642 00:32:51,676 --> 00:32:53,876 Speaker 2: or a simp or something as well, it's exciting. 643 00:32:53,596 --> 00:32:55,716 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, it's a really gorgeous sound your voice, 644 00:32:55,756 --> 00:32:59,556 Speaker 1: like when it builds out like that. It's gorgeous escapism too. 645 00:32:59,636 --> 00:33:03,036 Speaker 1: I love the two different perspectives two different voices. It's 646 00:33:03,076 --> 00:33:05,156 Speaker 1: like you're in the story and then you kind of 647 00:33:05,196 --> 00:33:07,356 Speaker 1: get like you're narrating it for us, right, which is 648 00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:08,876 Speaker 1: like a cool thing to do. 649 00:33:09,236 --> 00:33:12,756 Speaker 2: So love to bounce between first person and third person. 650 00:33:13,476 --> 00:33:17,636 Speaker 2: I find that fun and like, yeah, the narration aspect 651 00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:20,276 Speaker 2: of it. I always like it's funny. Sometimes I'll be 652 00:33:20,316 --> 00:33:22,396 Speaker 2: writing and all the other day with me and my 653 00:33:22,716 --> 00:33:24,556 Speaker 2: creative director, we're trying to do something, and I kept 654 00:33:25,236 --> 00:33:27,716 Speaker 2: I realized, I just love to mix. He's like, you know, 655 00:33:27,836 --> 00:33:30,876 Speaker 2: this sentence is third person and this sentences first person. 656 00:33:30,916 --> 00:33:32,276 Speaker 2: And I was like, you know what, I like mixing it. 657 00:33:32,836 --> 00:33:33,196 Speaker 2: Fuck it. 658 00:33:34,836 --> 00:33:38,356 Speaker 1: Yet? Why not? Yeah, after this last break, we'll come 659 00:33:38,396 --> 00:33:45,036 Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with Ray. We're 660 00:33:45,076 --> 00:33:48,396 Speaker 1: back with the rest of my conversation with Ray. It's 661 00:33:48,436 --> 00:33:50,636 Speaker 1: not by Mary Jane a little bit. What made you 662 00:33:50,716 --> 00:33:51,876 Speaker 1: choose that as a song title? 663 00:33:52,276 --> 00:33:54,956 Speaker 2: All the songs we wrote in Utah? You know, I 664 00:33:55,076 --> 00:33:59,516 Speaker 2: wanted to address kind of these subjects kind of pretty 665 00:33:59,596 --> 00:34:02,956 Speaker 2: head on. And I think I've always had a very 666 00:34:03,076 --> 00:34:06,996 Speaker 2: kind of addictive personality, and I've i think especially because 667 00:34:07,036 --> 00:34:11,036 Speaker 2: I was playing this like sweet little hot artists kind 668 00:34:11,076 --> 00:34:13,436 Speaker 2: of character, or at least that's what I was attempting 669 00:34:13,556 --> 00:34:15,596 Speaker 2: to sell. But really behind closed doors, I was just 670 00:34:16,036 --> 00:34:19,476 Speaker 2: really not dealing with things great, and I was just outside, 671 00:34:19,596 --> 00:34:22,876 Speaker 2: not even outside. I was just moving mad. Yeah, and 672 00:34:22,956 --> 00:34:27,236 Speaker 2: I got trapped into some pretty intense kind of cycles 673 00:34:27,316 --> 00:34:29,956 Speaker 2: and picked up some unhealthy habits, you know how it be. 674 00:34:30,076 --> 00:34:33,116 Speaker 2: Sometimes Also you become really good at hiding it. I 675 00:34:33,236 --> 00:34:35,716 Speaker 2: was just distant from my family. I was just lost 676 00:34:35,756 --> 00:34:36,596 Speaker 2: and not happy. 677 00:34:36,716 --> 00:34:38,476 Speaker 1: Does your family kind of recognize what was going on? 678 00:34:38,836 --> 00:34:40,836 Speaker 2: Yeah? I didn't really seen it. I think it was 679 00:34:40,876 --> 00:34:42,836 Speaker 2: like a year or whatever. I saw my parents like 680 00:34:42,916 --> 00:34:44,956 Speaker 2: twice in a year, which is really unlike me. Now 681 00:34:45,036 --> 00:34:47,356 Speaker 2: my parents are like around me all the time and 682 00:34:47,396 --> 00:34:49,676 Speaker 2: I tell them everything and I love him. But yeah, 683 00:34:49,716 --> 00:34:51,876 Speaker 2: there was just a period of time where I was 684 00:34:51,996 --> 00:34:55,756 Speaker 2: fully on escapers and vibes. Yeah, I mean, just yeah, 685 00:34:55,916 --> 00:34:59,956 Speaker 2: running away from reality. There's a lot of these subjects 686 00:34:59,996 --> 00:35:03,276 Speaker 2: which I find there's no real place to have these 687 00:35:03,356 --> 00:35:06,356 Speaker 2: conversations or in a space where you don't feel judged 688 00:35:06,516 --> 00:35:10,036 Speaker 2: or you don't feel disgusting or embarrassed. 689 00:35:10,396 --> 00:35:10,556 Speaker 1: You know. 690 00:35:10,756 --> 00:35:12,796 Speaker 2: I talk in this song about codeine, you know, and 691 00:35:13,436 --> 00:35:15,316 Speaker 2: there's a lot of us who can develop these kind 692 00:35:15,356 --> 00:35:18,556 Speaker 2: of dependencies on things, and it's so easy to keep 693 00:35:18,596 --> 00:35:20,556 Speaker 2: a secret and hide it and it can get dangerous, 694 00:35:20,756 --> 00:35:22,396 Speaker 2: and it did for me for a bit, you know. 695 00:35:22,956 --> 00:35:25,156 Speaker 2: So I just wanted to write a song, kind of weird, 696 00:35:25,716 --> 00:35:28,036 Speaker 2: twisted kind of love song. I think it's one of 697 00:35:28,076 --> 00:35:31,356 Speaker 2: those things as well. Once you open Pandora's box, you know, 698 00:35:31,596 --> 00:35:33,396 Speaker 2: but they say it's it's hard to close it. 699 00:35:33,676 --> 00:35:37,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, were you ever wary of I mean, Mary Jane escapeism, 700 00:35:39,076 --> 00:35:41,436 Speaker 1: body dysmorphia? Was there ever a part of you that 701 00:35:41,476 --> 00:35:44,356 Speaker 1: we felt like maybe I don't want this on the app? 702 00:35:44,396 --> 00:35:47,636 Speaker 1: Because then of course just from the bit of press 703 00:35:47,756 --> 00:35:51,636 Speaker 1: that I've picked up about you over time, it's like, wow, 704 00:35:51,956 --> 00:35:55,436 Speaker 1: people are asking you really like heavy. I'm like, I 705 00:35:55,476 --> 00:35:56,676 Speaker 1: don't know if I don't want to talk about this, 706 00:35:57,476 --> 00:36:00,036 Speaker 1: Like I just just like, how how did you ever 707 00:36:00,076 --> 00:36:02,636 Speaker 1: feel worried about that? Do you not? Do you regret it? 708 00:36:02,676 --> 00:36:03,876 Speaker 1: But does every part of you feel like damn? I 709 00:36:03,876 --> 00:36:05,076 Speaker 1: don't know if I want to go? You know. 710 00:36:05,196 --> 00:36:09,316 Speaker 2: It's like you know what I think, I think a 711 00:36:09,356 --> 00:36:11,236 Speaker 2: conscious choice you have to make as an artist, Like 712 00:36:11,316 --> 00:36:14,156 Speaker 2: what kind of artists am I going to be? There 713 00:36:14,196 --> 00:36:18,676 Speaker 2: are incredible artists who don't let you in on that 714 00:36:18,876 --> 00:36:21,356 Speaker 2: side of their life who close those doors and they 715 00:36:21,476 --> 00:36:26,356 Speaker 2: deliver perfection, And that's a whole other thing, because then 716 00:36:26,436 --> 00:36:30,036 Speaker 2: you're just dealing with all of those things behind closed doors, 717 00:36:30,116 --> 00:36:33,156 Speaker 2: but you present this and I have so much respect 718 00:36:33,876 --> 00:36:36,956 Speaker 2: for those kinds of artists, and that in itself takes 719 00:36:36,996 --> 00:36:43,636 Speaker 2: a whole load of bravery and rehearsals and skill and delivery. 720 00:36:43,796 --> 00:36:45,796 Speaker 2: That's a whole other thing. And then I think there's 721 00:36:45,836 --> 00:36:48,396 Speaker 2: the other end of it where it's like I'm going 722 00:36:48,436 --> 00:36:50,156 Speaker 2: to be an open book. But then that at the 723 00:36:50,156 --> 00:36:52,916 Speaker 2: same time, that also comes with people who you don't 724 00:36:52,996 --> 00:36:58,196 Speaker 2: know knowing things about me that four years ago my 725 00:36:58,276 --> 00:36:59,996 Speaker 2: own family didn't know. Do you know what I mean? 726 00:37:00,396 --> 00:37:03,836 Speaker 2: It's an interesting choice I've made, And definitely there are 727 00:37:03,916 --> 00:37:07,036 Speaker 2: days where it's like, damn, I really just did a lot, 728 00:37:07,756 --> 00:37:10,916 Speaker 2: and days are on stage like why did I decide 729 00:37:11,076 --> 00:37:14,156 Speaker 2: to be so open about this? But for all of 730 00:37:14,236 --> 00:37:17,996 Speaker 2: the times I do find it tricky or overwhelming, I 731 00:37:18,116 --> 00:37:20,396 Speaker 2: do think that's the kind of artists I want to be, 732 00:37:20,836 --> 00:37:23,356 Speaker 2: even though it's not always easy. Does that make sense? Yeah? 733 00:37:23,356 --> 00:37:24,916 Speaker 1: I mean it kind of does make you a real 734 00:37:25,156 --> 00:37:28,556 Speaker 1: writer in a way, and that writers really want to 735 00:37:28,796 --> 00:37:32,596 Speaker 1: write about real human experience and are kind of always 736 00:37:32,676 --> 00:37:35,516 Speaker 1: drudging and mining that stuff all the time, you know, 737 00:37:35,676 --> 00:37:37,796 Speaker 1: like kind of the misery and a sense and sometimes 738 00:37:38,236 --> 00:37:40,836 Speaker 1: the joy and all that too, but kind of moving 739 00:37:40,916 --> 00:37:43,356 Speaker 1: between those two in music, you know, I think some 740 00:37:43,436 --> 00:37:44,516 Speaker 1: people shy away from that. 741 00:37:44,836 --> 00:37:48,036 Speaker 2: It's difficult, but also it's what you feel comfortable, or 742 00:37:48,116 --> 00:37:51,876 Speaker 2: what your purpose is. Some artists purposes to entertain, and 743 00:37:52,196 --> 00:37:55,116 Speaker 2: damn well do they entertain, you know. And I think 744 00:37:55,276 --> 00:37:57,716 Speaker 2: for me as a writer, I kind of see it 745 00:37:57,796 --> 00:38:01,716 Speaker 2: as you're creating a commentary on the human experience from 746 00:38:01,756 --> 00:38:05,436 Speaker 2: your perspective, and that does require honesty. I think vulnerability 747 00:38:05,596 --> 00:38:09,836 Speaker 2: is so important and it's difficult. Sometimes it can be 748 00:38:09,956 --> 00:38:13,156 Speaker 2: very difficult for me personally in my taste. I always 749 00:38:13,236 --> 00:38:16,116 Speaker 2: find the music that I connect to the most is 750 00:38:16,156 --> 00:38:18,236 Speaker 2: where I feel just like I've been let in and 751 00:38:18,316 --> 00:38:23,556 Speaker 2: I'm just hearing candidness. It hurts. Sometimes it's like oh sugar, 752 00:38:24,196 --> 00:38:26,516 Speaker 2: or it's like not even for me just as a listener, 753 00:38:26,596 --> 00:38:28,556 Speaker 2: you know, you're like, oh my god, this is bringing 754 00:38:28,636 --> 00:38:31,076 Speaker 2: tears to my eyes. You know, if someone's telling your 755 00:38:31,156 --> 00:38:33,596 Speaker 2: story and you're just you have goosebumps all over your 756 00:38:33,636 --> 00:38:36,556 Speaker 2: skin and you're completely enchanted. And then it takes you 757 00:38:36,676 --> 00:38:39,956 Speaker 2: to somewhere in your life and then provide some sort 758 00:38:39,956 --> 00:38:42,796 Speaker 2: of aid or band aid we say, plaster, or some 759 00:38:42,956 --> 00:38:45,196 Speaker 2: sort of hug or some sort of space for you 760 00:38:45,276 --> 00:38:47,556 Speaker 2: to cry and feel it. So as a listener, that's 761 00:38:48,476 --> 00:38:51,916 Speaker 2: where I feel most moved. But it's definitely not an 762 00:38:51,916 --> 00:38:52,596 Speaker 2: easy thing to do. 763 00:38:53,156 --> 00:38:55,476 Speaker 1: Was ice Cream Man? Was that a difficult song to 764 00:38:56,196 --> 00:38:57,956 Speaker 1: record and to Yeah, I. 765 00:38:57,996 --> 00:39:03,876 Speaker 2: Mean, without a doubt, Yeah, definitely the whole. Yeah, that 766 00:39:03,956 --> 00:39:07,796 Speaker 2: one's deep. It's just deep, because my god, that song, 767 00:39:07,916 --> 00:39:10,916 Speaker 2: it's just I'm still you know, like a lot of 768 00:39:11,036 --> 00:39:13,916 Speaker 2: us are working through those things in it. But I 769 00:39:13,996 --> 00:39:17,076 Speaker 2: got a message the other day on my Instagram DMS. 770 00:39:17,196 --> 00:39:18,876 Speaker 2: Trying not to spend too much time on my socials 771 00:39:18,876 --> 00:39:20,796 Speaker 2: and stuff, but every now and then I have a 772 00:39:20,836 --> 00:39:23,316 Speaker 2: little look. And it was maybe about two days ago, 773 00:39:23,396 --> 00:39:25,276 Speaker 2: and I got this message from this lady and she 774 00:39:25,436 --> 00:39:30,116 Speaker 2: was about in her fifties and she sent me this long, 775 00:39:30,316 --> 00:39:34,996 Speaker 2: beautiful message. It was really sad message about her life, 776 00:39:35,076 --> 00:39:38,276 Speaker 2: and she was telling me about some of the things 777 00:39:38,316 --> 00:39:41,836 Speaker 2: she went through as a child and working through it, 778 00:39:41,956 --> 00:39:45,796 Speaker 2: and it was so moving. I was so moved. I 779 00:39:45,876 --> 00:39:47,916 Speaker 2: read it about six times. Even brings to his to 780 00:39:47,956 --> 00:39:50,396 Speaker 2: my eyes now, and I was just like, my goodness, 781 00:39:50,596 --> 00:39:54,796 Speaker 2: like some of us are carrying so much. And she 782 00:39:55,036 --> 00:39:57,676 Speaker 2: just expressed at the end of the message that she 783 00:39:57,836 --> 00:40:00,956 Speaker 2: was really grateful for that song because it gave her 784 00:40:01,076 --> 00:40:03,996 Speaker 2: the confidence to talk to someone that she loved about 785 00:40:04,036 --> 00:40:06,756 Speaker 2: something she'd beencerned about her whole life. There are so 786 00:40:06,916 --> 00:40:09,876 Speaker 2: many of us out here dealing with things, carrying things, 787 00:40:09,996 --> 00:40:13,036 Speaker 2: holding things. There's no instruction manual what to do. This 788 00:40:13,236 --> 00:40:15,876 Speaker 2: is where music is like medicine and provides a space 789 00:40:15,956 --> 00:40:19,316 Speaker 2: of healing or reflection. So as tricky is that song 790 00:40:19,436 --> 00:40:21,396 Speaker 2: is for me on the worst to days, I'm just 791 00:40:21,516 --> 00:40:25,716 Speaker 2: so grateful that even if it was only her, you 792 00:40:25,796 --> 00:40:28,916 Speaker 2: know that that's even been able to provide some sort 793 00:40:28,956 --> 00:40:30,996 Speaker 2: of I don't even know what the words are, but 794 00:40:31,076 --> 00:40:31,916 Speaker 2: I was just so mood. 795 00:40:32,556 --> 00:40:33,556 Speaker 1: Do you perform the song? 796 00:40:33,756 --> 00:40:37,196 Speaker 2: Yeah? I do now. Sometimes it's sad, sometimes I do 797 00:40:37,436 --> 00:40:40,076 Speaker 2: cry a lot. Sometimes I could sing it and I 798 00:40:40,156 --> 00:40:43,956 Speaker 2: feel really powerful. I feel really safe inside my music. 799 00:40:44,676 --> 00:40:46,716 Speaker 2: I think that's another thing that maybe allows me to 800 00:40:46,796 --> 00:40:51,036 Speaker 2: be so honest and vulnerable. It feels like if I 801 00:40:51,236 --> 00:40:54,756 Speaker 2: was just to say some of the lyrics in this 802 00:40:54,916 --> 00:40:57,476 Speaker 2: conversation with you, but without a melody and without the 803 00:40:57,556 --> 00:41:01,356 Speaker 2: safe space inside a song, I would not be comfortable 804 00:41:01,396 --> 00:41:05,356 Speaker 2: to do that at all, which is weird. But it 805 00:41:05,516 --> 00:41:08,756 Speaker 2: feels like within a song, it's on my terms in 806 00:41:08,876 --> 00:41:12,556 Speaker 2: the sonic bed. That feels like it's correct to lie 807 00:41:13,636 --> 00:41:18,356 Speaker 2: and it feels safe. It feels like no one can 808 00:41:18,476 --> 00:41:23,396 Speaker 2: spin this or nobody can have an opinion too negative 809 00:41:23,516 --> 00:41:26,156 Speaker 2: besides not liking the song, but they can't be like, 810 00:41:26,356 --> 00:41:29,836 Speaker 2: well I don't believe her, Well this and that, you know, 811 00:41:30,116 --> 00:41:33,076 Speaker 2: all the scrutiny that you can get from being open 812 00:41:33,316 --> 00:41:36,396 Speaker 2: and transparent about your life. But without a song, Yeah, you. 813 00:41:36,476 --> 00:41:40,756 Speaker 1: Have a new single Genesis, and it's really great. But 814 00:41:41,836 --> 00:41:43,596 Speaker 1: when it started, I was like, okay, all right, like 815 00:41:43,716 --> 00:41:47,356 Speaker 1: we and then you know, three quarters of the way 816 00:41:47,396 --> 00:41:50,836 Speaker 1: through or halfway through, there's a change, and it's like 817 00:41:50,916 --> 00:41:54,236 Speaker 1: the most uplifting. The first half is a little it's 818 00:41:54,236 --> 00:41:56,036 Speaker 1: a little like, oh shoot, like this is like I 819 00:41:56,076 --> 00:41:57,636 Speaker 1: feel like I was a little worried as I guess 820 00:41:57,636 --> 00:42:01,236 Speaker 1: she's still in like a and by the end I'm like, 821 00:42:01,316 --> 00:42:04,316 Speaker 1: oh shit, it feels like I'm in preservation Hall and 822 00:42:04,396 --> 00:42:07,996 Speaker 1: new and it's like the lyric is what's the lyric about? 823 00:42:08,036 --> 00:42:08,996 Speaker 1: Light Like blood and lighting. 824 00:42:09,236 --> 00:42:10,396 Speaker 2: They'd be l like, yeah, they'd be light. 825 00:42:10,516 --> 00:42:13,636 Speaker 1: It feels maybe more like where your life is now 826 00:42:13,956 --> 00:42:16,516 Speaker 1: than some of the album, you know, I know that 827 00:42:16,556 --> 00:42:17,196 Speaker 1: feels true to you. 828 00:42:18,196 --> 00:42:20,356 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the Planners will put out the full 829 00:42:20,476 --> 00:42:24,236 Speaker 2: seven minutes and then the week after kind of split 830 00:42:24,276 --> 00:42:27,316 Speaker 2: them into three different songs. So you have Genesis one, 831 00:42:27,356 --> 00:42:29,756 Speaker 2: which is that kind of really sad reflection in the 832 00:42:29,836 --> 00:42:34,796 Speaker 2: mirror of depressing conversation with yourself someone. Song two is 833 00:42:34,836 --> 00:42:38,916 Speaker 2: that heavy whatever sound, and then song three is the 834 00:42:39,116 --> 00:42:41,396 Speaker 2: kind of big band vibe at the end, and I 835 00:42:41,516 --> 00:42:44,116 Speaker 2: think you can almost see it as maybe an EP 836 00:42:44,396 --> 00:42:46,476 Speaker 2: or something. But I wanted to put all the songs 837 00:42:46,516 --> 00:42:48,996 Speaker 2: in one and kind of force you to try and 838 00:42:49,236 --> 00:42:51,076 Speaker 2: have to listen to all of it just in one, 839 00:42:51,156 --> 00:42:54,476 Speaker 2: which is a lot and I think I really took 840 00:42:54,876 --> 00:42:56,876 Speaker 2: like a lot of passion and a lot of time 841 00:42:57,156 --> 00:43:00,356 Speaker 2: went into the lyrics for me and making sure that 842 00:43:00,676 --> 00:43:02,396 Speaker 2: it said what it needed to say. I wanted it 843 00:43:02,476 --> 00:43:05,516 Speaker 2: to be cutting and again honest, and I wanted to 844 00:43:05,596 --> 00:43:09,756 Speaker 2: talk about themes of you know, suicide and which is 845 00:43:10,436 --> 00:43:15,236 Speaker 2: again just I think also even for young men, I 846 00:43:15,316 --> 00:43:18,836 Speaker 2: think there's this kind of thing of like just feeling 847 00:43:18,916 --> 00:43:23,156 Speaker 2: things and not talking about it. I recently lost someone 848 00:43:23,156 --> 00:43:25,636 Speaker 2: who was really close to the family, just gone, you know, 849 00:43:26,116 --> 00:43:28,916 Speaker 2: and you didn't even know that they were going for anything. 850 00:43:29,476 --> 00:43:30,036 Speaker 1: Suicide. 851 00:43:30,396 --> 00:43:33,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of people just as you know, 852 00:43:34,116 --> 00:43:36,036 Speaker 2: fighting a lot of stuff. I wanted to create a 853 00:43:36,116 --> 00:43:39,556 Speaker 2: song that felt like if you are going for anything 854 00:43:39,676 --> 00:43:41,676 Speaker 2: like that, or you do feel in any sort of 855 00:43:41,756 --> 00:43:46,316 Speaker 2: way burdened or like you're going for a really tough time. 856 00:43:46,436 --> 00:43:48,556 Speaker 2: I wanted to create a piece of music that you 857 00:43:48,636 --> 00:43:52,116 Speaker 2: could allow yourself to feel it in the beginning, and 858 00:43:52,236 --> 00:43:54,796 Speaker 2: then the music kind of starts to lift you up 859 00:43:54,796 --> 00:43:56,636 Speaker 2: in the middle, even though the lyric is still heavy, 860 00:43:57,876 --> 00:44:00,316 Speaker 2: taking you maybe to a more powerful place to process 861 00:44:00,396 --> 00:44:03,956 Speaker 2: that emotion, and then by the end hopefully feeling some 862 00:44:04,036 --> 00:44:06,996 Speaker 2: positivity and some hope. So I wanted it to be 863 00:44:07,076 --> 00:44:10,356 Speaker 2: this journey of if any one even relates to one 864 00:44:10,396 --> 00:44:12,476 Speaker 2: of the sentences in that song, you know, And I 865 00:44:12,636 --> 00:44:15,196 Speaker 2: was trying to create an open scape of my honesty. 866 00:44:15,396 --> 00:44:19,076 Speaker 2: But then also what else are people our love or 867 00:44:19,116 --> 00:44:21,476 Speaker 2: people I don't even know going through or need from 868 00:44:21,676 --> 00:44:24,516 Speaker 2: this song? So it's quite a deep one, Yeah it is. 869 00:44:24,676 --> 00:44:28,396 Speaker 1: Well, I'm so grateful you loved us with that we needed, 870 00:44:28,596 --> 00:44:35,356 Speaker 1: so we absolutely needed. Yeah, man, how are you going 871 00:44:35,396 --> 00:44:37,116 Speaker 1: to do that live? Well? 872 00:44:38,036 --> 00:44:41,556 Speaker 2: Look, in my dream scenario, there will always be many 873 00:44:41,636 --> 00:44:45,636 Speaker 2: many musicians on the stage. From a cost efficiency perspective, 874 00:44:46,476 --> 00:44:50,476 Speaker 2: we're working now, but you know who needs to make 875 00:44:50,556 --> 00:44:52,316 Speaker 2: notes of money? Like who needs to do that? 876 00:44:52,556 --> 00:44:55,796 Speaker 1: Sure? I mean travel with the big band? Bring them out? 877 00:44:56,596 --> 00:45:01,356 Speaker 1: You worked with Dark Child? I love Dark Child? Rodney Man, 878 00:45:01,476 --> 00:45:02,636 Speaker 1: how did you look about Rodney? 879 00:45:02,676 --> 00:45:05,076 Speaker 2: That's my bro. I actually met him when I was 880 00:45:05,116 --> 00:45:06,916 Speaker 2: a kid, like my first trip to LA when I 881 00:45:06,916 --> 00:45:09,276 Speaker 2: was about seventeen, and I was taking some meetings and 882 00:45:09,316 --> 00:45:11,276 Speaker 2: I remember at the time I hadn't made anything good 883 00:45:11,356 --> 00:45:15,316 Speaker 2: enough to like really capture his attention. But I remember 884 00:45:15,396 --> 00:45:18,116 Speaker 2: thinking in my head like one day he's going to 885 00:45:18,196 --> 00:45:20,396 Speaker 2: hear my music and be like she's sick. Like I 886 00:45:20,516 --> 00:45:23,556 Speaker 2: remember that being a goal. And then we got connected 887 00:45:23,636 --> 00:45:26,716 Speaker 2: and maybe like two years ago, and got in the 888 00:45:26,756 --> 00:45:29,836 Speaker 2: studio and started working on what is this song? So 889 00:45:29,876 --> 00:45:31,556 Speaker 2: it's been a labor of love for quite a long time. 890 00:45:32,196 --> 00:45:34,276 Speaker 2: He's really brilliant and I have a lot of love 891 00:45:34,316 --> 00:45:36,556 Speaker 2: for him, and I put him through the ring. 892 00:45:36,596 --> 00:45:37,716 Speaker 1: On this Tell me about it. 893 00:45:38,036 --> 00:45:39,996 Speaker 2: Oh my god. I called him again and be like, 894 00:45:40,556 --> 00:45:43,196 Speaker 2: we need to fix the drums. I'm like, we need to. 895 00:45:43,756 --> 00:45:45,876 Speaker 2: You know, we had this original drum loop and I'm like, 896 00:45:45,916 --> 00:45:49,396 Speaker 2: it's giving, but it wasn't live. It had a live texture, 897 00:45:49,436 --> 00:45:51,636 Speaker 2: but some of the frequencies were too sharp and it 898 00:45:51,716 --> 00:45:53,996 Speaker 2: was jarring. And I was like, we need to it 899 00:45:54,116 --> 00:45:57,356 Speaker 2: needs to have the same feel, but it needs to 900 00:45:57,476 --> 00:45:59,676 Speaker 2: feel clean and a bit more raw and down to 901 00:45:59,716 --> 00:46:03,156 Speaker 2: earth and and not have that kind of distracting whatever. 902 00:46:03,156 --> 00:46:05,676 Speaker 2: And he'd be like, okay, okay. So we trapped different 903 00:46:05,716 --> 00:46:08,076 Speaker 2: things and then we go back and back and and 904 00:46:08,116 --> 00:46:09,796 Speaker 2: then it was like, finally, yes, we got it. So 905 00:46:09,876 --> 00:46:11,716 Speaker 2: we took the original drummer and made it like twenty 906 00:46:11,716 --> 00:46:13,876 Speaker 2: percent in volume and then played this new one over 907 00:46:13,916 --> 00:46:16,516 Speaker 2: the top so you still get that whatever. And then 908 00:46:16,556 --> 00:46:18,356 Speaker 2: I remember I was at the baseline. I think we 909 00:46:18,436 --> 00:46:20,956 Speaker 2: need a completely different melody to it. So then we 910 00:46:21,036 --> 00:46:27,516 Speaker 2: did this baseline where I basically recorded twenty and we 911 00:46:27,636 --> 00:46:31,396 Speaker 2: stacked and stacked and stacked, vocally manipulated it, put it 912 00:46:31,436 --> 00:46:33,756 Speaker 2: down the octave, and then played a symp with it. 913 00:46:33,876 --> 00:46:39,636 Speaker 2: Like there was so much experimentation and things that needed 914 00:46:39,676 --> 00:46:42,356 Speaker 2: to be changed, things that needed to be added, and 915 00:46:42,476 --> 00:46:45,476 Speaker 2: he was so patient with me because I'm so annoying 916 00:46:47,316 --> 00:46:51,236 Speaker 2: every little detail life Ronnie, we needed her, I'll call 917 00:46:51,316 --> 00:46:54,916 Speaker 2: him like Hi, Ray, Like hey, So, I was just 918 00:46:55,076 --> 00:46:58,156 Speaker 2: thinking that we need a new verse two, you know, 919 00:46:58,596 --> 00:47:01,436 Speaker 2: and maybe we do a string section. I even have 920 00:47:01,596 --> 00:47:04,796 Speaker 2: notes now, and we've handed in the master, and I'm 921 00:47:04,836 --> 00:47:07,596 Speaker 2: thinking maybe the vinyl is going to be different to 922 00:47:07,756 --> 00:47:09,676 Speaker 2: the version that's going to come out. I think we 923 00:47:09,796 --> 00:47:11,716 Speaker 2: need a more soft detexture on verse one because the 924 00:47:11,796 --> 00:47:16,276 Speaker 2: lyrics already so hard that you need some softness around it, 925 00:47:16,996 --> 00:47:19,196 Speaker 2: you know. And then we played these brass on SNL 926 00:47:19,276 --> 00:47:21,876 Speaker 2: that was so good that I'm like, we need to 927 00:47:21,916 --> 00:47:24,436 Speaker 2: add that in. So there's probably going to be some 928 00:47:24,636 --> 00:47:27,036 Speaker 2: changes in the vinyl of seven inch version that we 929 00:47:27,156 --> 00:47:30,756 Speaker 2: printed to what you're hearing now. Rodney's such a jeep, 930 00:47:31,236 --> 00:47:32,916 Speaker 2: like he's a legend. He's one of the best in 931 00:47:32,996 --> 00:47:36,196 Speaker 2: the game. He's just constantly leveling up, creating music that 932 00:47:36,396 --> 00:47:38,356 Speaker 2: just stands and tests the time wherever or some. 933 00:47:38,356 --> 00:47:41,276 Speaker 1: Of the best singers Janet Tony Braxton, I mean, come on, 934 00:47:41,436 --> 00:47:46,996 Speaker 1: I mean just the greatest singers work As an album artist, 935 00:47:48,116 --> 00:47:49,316 Speaker 1: do you have a sense of what you want to 936 00:47:49,356 --> 00:47:54,476 Speaker 1: do next? I like to make an album, okay, but 937 00:47:54,716 --> 00:47:56,556 Speaker 1: doing it out like you do, you have a goal 938 00:47:56,676 --> 00:47:58,716 Speaker 1: that I want it to be by boom or you just. 939 00:47:58,796 --> 00:48:02,556 Speaker 2: Like it just has to be good by my own standard, 940 00:48:03,276 --> 00:48:05,636 Speaker 2: and I think I'll need to live a little bit 941 00:48:05,796 --> 00:48:08,756 Speaker 2: to like make a really good album. Otherwise I'm just 942 00:48:08,796 --> 00:48:13,876 Speaker 2: gonna be writing about hotel rooms and winding roads and 943 00:48:14,236 --> 00:48:16,556 Speaker 2: nobody wants to hear that. So I need to go 944 00:48:16,676 --> 00:48:19,996 Speaker 2: and collect some stories as well and live a little bit. 945 00:48:20,316 --> 00:48:22,876 Speaker 2: I'm aware that it's a bit scary in the times 946 00:48:22,916 --> 00:48:25,796 Speaker 2: we're in with everyone having such short attention spans, and 947 00:48:26,996 --> 00:48:29,076 Speaker 2: you know, we're it's such an amazing place right now 948 00:48:29,196 --> 00:48:33,156 Speaker 2: that everyone's like, oh, well, when's the next shit coming on? 949 00:48:33,316 --> 00:48:36,636 Speaker 2: Like fucking hell damn, Like, I need to go. I 950 00:48:36,756 --> 00:48:39,076 Speaker 2: need to write. I'm not going to put anything out 951 00:48:39,116 --> 00:48:41,996 Speaker 2: that I don't love and I don't believe it's good, 952 00:48:42,036 --> 00:48:43,636 Speaker 2: and it's got to at least be a little bit 953 00:48:43,676 --> 00:48:46,636 Speaker 2: better than, in my opinion, the album we just put 954 00:48:46,676 --> 00:48:49,156 Speaker 2: out of what's the point, I mean, got be leveling up. 955 00:48:49,916 --> 00:48:52,196 Speaker 1: Hey, well, I can't wait to hear it. I hope, Yeah, 956 00:48:52,276 --> 00:48:55,116 Speaker 1: me too, I can't wait to hear it. I'm sure 957 00:48:55,116 --> 00:48:57,676 Speaker 1: it'll be great. It's a great great talking to you 958 00:48:57,796 --> 00:49:03,276 Speaker 1: no like guys. Thank you. Thanks to Ray for speaking 959 00:49:03,356 --> 00:49:06,836 Speaker 1: so openly about her life, inspiration and her music. Her 960 00:49:06,916 --> 00:49:10,676 Speaker 1: new single, Genesis is out now everywhere. You can hear 961 00:49:10,676 --> 00:49:12,756 Speaker 1: a playlist of all of our favorite race songs at 962 00:49:12,876 --> 00:49:16,916 Speaker 1: broken record podcast dot com. Subscribe to our YouTube channel 963 00:49:16,956 --> 00:49:19,836 Speaker 1: at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you 964 00:49:19,876 --> 00:49:23,116 Speaker 1: can find all of our new episodes. You can follow 965 00:49:23,196 --> 00:49:26,636 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced 966 00:49:26,716 --> 00:49:29,516 Speaker 1: and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from Eric 967 00:49:29,636 --> 00:49:33,956 Speaker 1: Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tolliday. Broken 968 00:49:34,036 --> 00:49:37,356 Speaker 1: Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love 969 00:49:37,396 --> 00:49:41,476 Speaker 1: this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. 970 00:49:42,116 --> 00:49:45,356 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content 971 00:49:45,476 --> 00:49:48,156 Speaker 1: and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. 972 00:49:48,876 --> 00:49:52,756 Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions. And if 973 00:49:52,796 --> 00:49:55,236 Speaker 1: you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and 974 00:49:55,276 --> 00:49:58,116 Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by 975 00:49:58,156 --> 00:49:59,996 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.