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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome back to the Away End. I'm John Green.

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Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Alercon. John. You missed an incredible episode last week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We really addressed some of the really thorny existential questions

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Speaker 2: in world football, like, for example, why does everyone hate

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Speaker 2: Marco Gorilla. We also analyzed the chances of a hypothetical

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Speaker 2: team made up of players of the Upper West Side

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Speaker 2: of Manhattan and wondered if they would do better than

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Speaker 2: Kurusa in the World Cup. So I want to ask you,

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Speaker 2: on behalf of all the people listening, why weren't you

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Speaker 2: here last week?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So I have an excused absence because I was

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Speaker 1: a witness in a federal fraud trial. I was contacted

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Speaker 1: by the FBI a couple of weeks ago. They called

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Speaker 1: me and they left a message, and of course I

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Speaker 1: thought it was fraud because why would the FBI contact

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Speaker 1: you and how would they even get your number? Well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out they get your number because they're the FBI.

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Speaker 1: They thought that was my question.

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Speaker 2: I assumed that they can get your number. That wasn't

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Speaker 2: my question would be more like why would they call you?

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Speaker 2: And most stories that begin with I was contacted by

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Speaker 2: the FBI don't end well, but go on. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: To be fair, the FBI agent when he called me,

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Speaker 1: the first thing he said was you're not in any trouble,

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Speaker 1: And I thought to myself, I bet they say that

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Speaker 1: to all of their potential defendants. But it turns out

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Speaker 1: my image and name were used in a flyer, a

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Speaker 1: direct mail campaign for a pyramid scheme. Only I John

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Speaker 1: Green was not identified as an author, YouTuber or indeed

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Speaker 1: as my most important gig, the host of the away.

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Speaker 1: And I was identified as a pharmacist and as a

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Speaker 1: Level four participant in this pyramid scheme, such that I

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Speaker 1: was making over one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year.

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Speaker 1: And so the FBI said, are you and fact a pharmacist?

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Speaker 1: And I said I think we both know the answer

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Speaker 1: to that. And they said were you a pharmacist in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen? And I said I was not a pharmacist

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Speaker 1: then either, and they said, all right, that should be

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Speaker 1: all we need. And then they called back the next

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Speaker 1: day and there were four Department of Justice lawyers on

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Speaker 1: the phone and they were like, hey, can you come

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Speaker 1: testify at a trial in Milwaukee? And I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, guys, I wish you all the best with

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Speaker 1: this and everything. And it sounds like a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: especially really vulnerable elderly people, were defrauded by this, and

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Speaker 1: I know millions of dollars were lost and everything. But

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Speaker 1: I'm a pretty busy guy, and like.

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Speaker 2: I have a soccer podcast. I don't know if you've

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Speaker 2: heard of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's called The Away End. And they were like,

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Speaker 1: very nicely, they were like, well, here's a subpoena. It

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Speaker 1: turns out that when you're issued a subpoena, you can't

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Speaker 1: actually turn down the opportunity to come testify a It's

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Speaker 1: not an optional opportunity.

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Speaker 2: Got it? Got it?

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Speaker 1: So I found myself in Milwaukee, and I sat in

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Speaker 1: a great town. I sat in a witness room for

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Speaker 1: five hours waiting to testify, and then I testified, and

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Speaker 1: there were objections to my testimony. It was the full

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Speaker 1: court experience. I sat in the witness box, I raised

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Speaker 1: my right hand. I swore to tell the truth, the

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Speaker 1: whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And I testified

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Speaker 1: to the fact that I'm not a pharmacist and that

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Speaker 1: I'd never heard of this pyramid scheme. And they asked

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Speaker 1: me what I did for a living and I said

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Speaker 1: mostly I host the away n but I also do

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Speaker 1: some other stuff.

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Speaker 2: And then I.

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Speaker 1: Was cross examined for like fifteen minutes, where somewhat in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, condescending defense attorney kept saying, well, I haven't

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Speaker 1: read any of your books, and I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's I wanted to say what I usually say in

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Speaker 1: that situation, which is, well, there's still in print, but instead.

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Speaker 2: There's a library down the block on.

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Speaker 1: Exactly you can get one if you've it's not important

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Speaker 1: to you. Instead, I just said, that's all right, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a weird experience, man, But I just found

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Speaker 1: out today that the trial concluded with the conviction of

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Speaker 1: these two folks. And yeah, I mean I wasn't there,

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Speaker 1: you know, to convict or not convict. I was just

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Speaker 1: there to tell the truth. That was what I kept

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Speaker 1: telling myself, that.

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Speaker 2: The long arm of the law. Well, I learned most

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Speaker 2: of the things that I know about the law from

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Speaker 2: the movie my cousin Vinny. Yes, and so did you

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Speaker 2: get a sidebar? Because I feel like those are so cool, Like.

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Speaker 1: There was no sidebar while I was testifying. However, my

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Speaker 1: friend was in the courtroom for the entire thing. Because

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Speaker 1: he flew to Milwaukee with me because he wanted to

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Speaker 1: have what he called a high contrast experience. And he

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Speaker 1: told me there were a number of sidebars earlier in

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Speaker 1: the trial, but I didn't get a personal sidebar.

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Speaker 2: The little whispering between the judge. It's like, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: love it all right, man. Well, I will leave it

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Speaker 2: up to the listeners to accept or reject your excused

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Speaker 2: absence or your absence. But I think that's a legitimate reason.

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Speaker 2: And I'm glad the long arm of the law caught

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Speaker 2: up with these fraudsters who were pretending to be you,

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Speaker 2: and I guess making making you party to a scam.

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Speaker 2: That sucks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's not the worst thing that's ever

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Speaker 1: happened in my public reputation, but it wasn't. It's not great,

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Speaker 1: and I feel bad for the people who were defrauded,

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Speaker 1: of course, so of course, yeah, anyway, what's been going

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Speaker 1: on with you?

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Speaker 2: Well, we soldiered on without you. Sean filled in. He

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Speaker 2: was called up, uh, you know, off the bench, off

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Speaker 2: the bench into the starting eleven, a kind of game

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Speaker 2: day decision. Did wonderfully ably and you know, like I said,

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Speaker 2: we tackled a lot of those those really great questions

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Speaker 2: that listeners have been sending into us. And actually that's

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Speaker 2: where kind of where I wanted to start today, if

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Speaker 2: that's all right, sure, because we got an email to

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Speaker 2: set it up a little bit, and I want to

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Speaker 2: shout out a deer departed friend of mine named Ibrahim Mattein,

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Speaker 2: who was just a wonderful guy. We were friends back

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Speaker 2: in Oakland and he used to wear a glove everywhere

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Speaker 2: he went, like just one glove. And one time we

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Speaker 2: were like him, what's up? What's up with the glove?

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Speaker 2: We were going out to this bar and he was like,

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Speaker 2: He's like, exactly what's up with the glove? And he

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Speaker 2: was like and his whole thing was like, ladies are

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Speaker 2: gonna just be like, you know, come over and just

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Speaker 2: you know, it's such a conversation starter, like oh and

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Speaker 2: what are what are you doing with one glove? And

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Speaker 2: not too you know. But he had a single and

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Speaker 2: relentless talking point, which was loyalty. He would always talk

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Speaker 2: about loyalty, and I think he meant it in terms

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Speaker 2: of family and friends, to whom he was very dedicated

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Speaker 2: and generous and loving. But I but it's something I

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Speaker 2: think about a lot specifically in terms of of football soccer,

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Speaker 2: because there was a thing that my uncle, my deod

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Speaker 2: Fredo said to me once which I hesitate to share,

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Speaker 2: but I will. He said, Donny, you can trust a

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Speaker 2: man who changes his politics, and you can trust a

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Speaker 2: man who changes his wife, but you can't trust a

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Speaker 2: man who changes his soccer team. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was like ten, you know, I'm like wife. Oh no,

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Speaker 2: girls are girls are goodies, you know, like, uh, but

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Speaker 2: you know the the uh in politics. I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: what do you mean anyway? Uh So that's the setup.

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Speaker 2: And I want to read an email we got from

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Speaker 2: a listener named Luke, and he said the following, because

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about loyalties in football, specifically in

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Speaker 2: honor of Iberhem and my tiol. Fredo says, uh. Luke says, hello,

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Speaker 2: Daniel and John. I write to you as a conflicted man.

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Speaker 2: I am a Canadian who comes from Italian roots, and

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Speaker 2: I am at a loss. I never thought I'd see

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Speaker 2: the day where Canada and Italy both qualified for the

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Speaker 2: World Cup. What's worse, Assuming Italy qualifies for the World Cup,

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Speaker 2: which is far from certain, Canada and Italy will have

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Speaker 2: to play each other. I have very strong feelings on

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Speaker 2: both sides. Any insight from you two would be very

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Speaker 2: much appreciated. Who do I root for in the World Cup?

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Speaker 2: Thank you? Luke? So? I mean, first off, you know

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Speaker 2: Italy might not make it, so you might be off

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Speaker 2: the hook. But what if it happens, John, what do

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Speaker 2: you think? What should we tell Luke?

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Speaker 1: It's a tough one because I feel a certain connection.

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Speaker 1: My family's Irish, and I feel a certain connection with

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Speaker 1: the Irish national team. I feel a bigger connection with

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Speaker 1: the US men's national team. But I think it's where

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Speaker 1: you where you feel the connection. You know, sometimes you

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Speaker 1: can flip a coin and say like that's going to

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Speaker 1: decide who I root for here, and then the coin

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Speaker 1: lands on tails and you're like, wait a second, that's

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Speaker 1: not what I wanted. Maybe you do that, maybe that's

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Speaker 1: how you figure it out, but it can be really difficult.

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Speaker 1: And I know it's got to be hard for you

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Speaker 1: because you grew up in the US, but you were

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Speaker 1: born in Peru. You feel a deeper connection, i'd imagine

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Speaker 1: to the Peruvian men's national team than to the US.

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Speaker 1: But you've talked about how you have a fondness for

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Speaker 1: the US M and t I.

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Speaker 2: Do I do. In my case, it's an easy decision.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if this helps loop, but I

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Speaker 2: think of it in terms of who needs it more,

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Speaker 2: you know. And I really think a country like Peru,

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Speaker 2: like my country where I was born, like we could

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Speaker 2: use a win, you know, right, And I feel like,

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Speaker 2: you know, the US wins a lot. Us is a

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Speaker 2: powerhouse in you know, in global politics, bully, in global politics,

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Speaker 2: our economy, you know, our cultural power is everywhere, and

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Speaker 2: you know, like Peru gets like, you know, no love

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Speaker 2: and is a you know, kind of a global political

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Speaker 2: punchline now because we had just had our eighth president

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Speaker 2: in ten years, and so it's almost like, you know,

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Speaker 2: this kind of revolving door presidency that's kind of a

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Speaker 2: joke in political science circles and otherwise, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: folks don't know much about Peru. I feel like a

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Speaker 2: win for Peru would be super important emotionally for the country.

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Speaker 2: I know that because I was in Peru when when

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Speaker 2: we made the World Cup in twenty eighteen, and I

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Speaker 2: know what that meant to everybody across all political divisions

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Speaker 2: and class divisions and ethnic divisions. So you know, for me,

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't be hard, Luke. It would be like Peru's

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Speaker 2: playing United States Peru, no questions asked. Now in your

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Speaker 2: case Canadon and Italy, I mean Canada, it would mean

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Speaker 2: It's hard to say because Italy hasn't even made the

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Speaker 2: World Cup in the last two times, and so Italy

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Speaker 2: is a country with a proud and you know, important

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Speaker 2: footballing legacy, and for them to make the World Cup

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Speaker 2: is going to be huge if they can pull it off,

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Speaker 2: and for them to go far and you know, would

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Speaker 2: be great too. But I don't know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what should we tell, Luke.

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Speaker 1: I think that if you're going to base it on

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Speaker 1: who needs it more, I think Canada needs it more

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Speaker 1: because they've had less success and they actually have a

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Speaker 1: pretty good chance this year to go fairly far in

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Speaker 1: the tournament and they're hosting it. So if you're basically

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Speaker 1: on who needs it more, I think that's the call.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So in preparation for answering this, this is

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Speaker 2: and this is another bit of advice for Luke or

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Speaker 2: for whoever who's who's gonna watch the World Cup and

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Speaker 2: you know, you may or may not have a team,

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Speaker 2: but I always make my hierarchy of loyalties.

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Speaker 1: This is key. You need it because when when Uzbeka

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Speaker 1: Stan plays Morocco, you need to know who you're rooting for.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you absolutely do, because you can watch the

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Speaker 2: game just for for for the spectacle. But it's more

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Speaker 2: fun to watch the game when you know what you want. Right.

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Speaker 2: So John and I both prepare a list. I want

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Speaker 2: to say off the top, though, John, these are not

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Speaker 2: I have no enmity towards no nation. This is not

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Speaker 2: a like you know, list of countries I like or dislike.

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Speaker 2: It's just the strictly footballing loyalties. This is not anything,

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Speaker 2: you know. I'm not trying to start a world war

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Speaker 2: or anything. And I do think that the World Cup

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Speaker 2: is one of the places that I find where I

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Speaker 2: find nationalism to be acceptable and appropriate, and I'm keen

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Speaker 2: on it. I love expressions of national pride and in

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Speaker 2: this context as long as they aren't sort of denigrating

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Speaker 2: other countries. So I just want to get that out

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Speaker 2: of the way, because I don't want people to write me.

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Speaker 2: I don't want Chileans to write me nasty emails, basically

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Speaker 2: is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Yet, John, you want to go through your list, Sho'll

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Speaker 1: go through my list. So first I've got the USA.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's where I'm from. It's you know, the

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Speaker 1: team I've watched the most over the last twenty five years,

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Speaker 1: and heartbreak and joy and everything. It's who I am,

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Speaker 1: whether I like it or not. I remember when I

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Speaker 1: was in the Netherlands. When I lived in the Netherlands

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Speaker 1: for a little while, someone called me incurably American and

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Speaker 1: I ended up using that in the Faultner Stars. And

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Speaker 1: I think I am a little incurably American, even when

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Speaker 1: I against my will. So USA first, Then second, I

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Speaker 1: have the Netherlands because we lived there and they've never

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Speaker 1: won the World Cup and they deserve. They deserve to

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Speaker 1: win a World Cup. They are incredibly strong footballing nation

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Speaker 1: that has changed the way football has played in profound ways.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so I've got the Netherlands. Then I've got

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Speaker 1: CONCA CAF teams that aren't Mexico, so Currosow, Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica, Bermuda,

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Speaker 1: all those teams. I always want them to do well.

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Speaker 2: Costa Rica, the Upper West Side of Manhattan, anyone, the.

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Speaker 1: Upper West Side of Manhattan, absolutely all those teams, So

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Speaker 1: all those teams that aren't Mexico. Then we've got every

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Speaker 1: African team every I'm going to root for every African

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Speaker 1: team next. None of them have won a World Cup.

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Speaker 1: It's incredibly exciting for all those countries to go far

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Speaker 1: in the World Cup. I remember when Morocco mane its semifinals. Incredible,

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Speaker 1: incredibly joyful. Then I've got Peru because of my friend Daniel,

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Than threw over all other South American teams

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Speaker 1: because of my friend, and because over the years I've

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Speaker 1: just developed a fondness for them, even though they're not

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Speaker 1: going to be in the World Cup this time. Then

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Speaker 1: I've got and this is going to be a controversial

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Speaker 1: pick in this family, I've got England because I watch

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Speaker 1: a lot of English soccer and so I feel connected

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Speaker 1: to a lot of the English players. I'm one of

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Speaker 1: my closest friends is English, and I want good things

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Speaker 1: for him. He's a high school history teacher. It's a

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Speaker 1: tough time to be a classroom teacher, and I want

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Speaker 1: good things for him.

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Speaker 2: Then I've gotten mad at that. I'm not mad at that.

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Speaker 2: I like a lot of the English players. I watch

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Speaker 2: a lot of the Premier leagu obviously, so yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: not bad at that all. Right.

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Speaker 1: Then i got Brazil. I like Brazil because my books

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Speaker 1: were very successful there before they were successful in the

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Speaker 1: United States. And I'm very grateful to the people of

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Speaker 1: Brazil for supporting my work so early on when I

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Speaker 1: really needed it, and I will never forget that. And

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Speaker 1: then I have all other South American teams. South American

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Speaker 1: football is just a joy to watch, and I know

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Speaker 1: how much it means in South America, and I just

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Speaker 1: I like it when Argentina or Chile play well. I

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Speaker 1: like it when Columbia plays well. It just brings me joy.

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Speaker 1: Then I've got every Asian team, maybe a little less

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Speaker 1: of the nation's game than it is in South America

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Speaker 1: or Europe or whatever, but still really fun. No team

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Speaker 1: from Asia has ever won the World Cup. That would

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Speaker 1: be incredibly exciting. Then I've got all European teams that

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Speaker 1: haven't won the World Cup. Right, so if you haven't

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Speaker 1: won a World Cup, I'm interested in you. Then I've

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Speaker 1: got Mexico, my least favorite CONKA CAF team are great

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Speaker 1: rivals in football, But the thing is, when Mexico wins,

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Speaker 1: I'm not that unhappy, except when they play us, then

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Speaker 1: I've got Italy. Now this is going to devastate our

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Speaker 1: friend Sean, our producer Sean, who is himself Italian. I

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Speaker 1: also have other close friends who are Italian. I just

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Speaker 1: struggled to root for the Italian national team Sewan because

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Speaker 1: they're very defensive, they're very negative. I don't like the

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Speaker 1: way they play football. I feel like that may be

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Speaker 1: uh a legacy. That Yeah, that made me need some revising.

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Speaker 1: I'm also had it only very low on my list

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Speaker 1: for for a different reason, which I'll explain. But I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure that's still the case.

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Speaker 2: But go on, we'll see. Just look at it. Just

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Speaker 2: look at how the Italians. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 2: they're so handsome. You know, it's hard to very good looking,

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Speaker 2: very so Sean obviously, uh the uh if you look

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Speaker 2: at the Italian teams in the you know nowadays when

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Speaker 2: they play in Europe, these are high scoring affairs. They're

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Speaker 2: not you know, Cuttanaccio as they used to be. So

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Speaker 2: that might need a little a closer look. But this

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Speaker 2: is all about our prejudices and and and sort of

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Speaker 2: like what we you know, the truths we've inherited over

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Speaker 2: the years and hole deer, I have similar ones.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, then I rounded out with Germany, France and

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Speaker 1: Spain Spain being in last place because they win all

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Speaker 1: the time and tiki taka boring, boring, no drama, no,

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Speaker 1: uh wow, nothing in it for me. I don't love.

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Speaker 1: I just don't love Spanish football. I don't love. I

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Speaker 1: don't and I'm tired of Spain and France and winning

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Speaker 1: every World Cup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. They're good.

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Speaker 2: They're good, they're good teams, They're wonderful teams.

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Speaker 1: They're really good. They're really good, they have the best

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Speaker 1: players in the world, and so of course they're going

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Speaker 1: to win a lot. But I struggle to root for

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Speaker 1: them because because I love an underdog. That's there, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean to me, that's always like the tiebreaker there because

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Speaker 2: if you have, say, you know, two Asian teams playing

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Speaker 2: each other and they're in your same category, John, I

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Speaker 2: think you know, you look to see who's the underdog,

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Speaker 2: you know, or I mean the other deal. The tiebreaker

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Speaker 2: for me is like, do I have a close friend

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Speaker 2: from that country, you know, and that that's important to me, yep,

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Speaker 2: as it is important to you and I appreciate.

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Speaker 1: Is there someone I can text about this? Is there

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Speaker 1: someone I can text whose joy I will feel vicariously?

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Speaker 1: All right, what's your wist? Daniel?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So Peru obviously is the top for the

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Speaker 2: same reasons you described about the US. Then Colombia, where

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Speaker 2: my wife is from and I have so I have

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Speaker 2: two kids who are Colombian, and where I'm currently living,

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Speaker 2: and I happened to be here in twenty fourteen when

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Speaker 2: Colombia had that wonderful run and had this really powerful,

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Speaker 2: beautiful team and I loved it. Then any Latin American

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Speaker 2: team except for Brazil and Chile. Now Brazil because they

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Speaker 2: win a lot, and because I've played soccer with a

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Speaker 2: lot of Brazilians over the years, and they just don't

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Speaker 2: pass the Peruvians. That just might that just might be

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Speaker 2: my experience. But I remember playing like a seven aside

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Speaker 2: and six of the guys were from Brazil and it's

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Speaker 2: you know, they're all speaking fallen the Portuguese, and I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I'm wide open here and no one's

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Speaker 2: passing me the ball because because they're Brazilians and because

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Speaker 2: they're so good and so they just don't see the Peruvians,

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Speaker 2: so you know, I just hold a grudge, you know.

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Speaker 2: So then Brazil, because I'm not I'm not. I just

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Speaker 2: sort of like any Latin American team first except for

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Speaker 2: Brazil and today and then Brazil, you know, got it.

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Speaker 2: Then Japan. We have some really close friends from Japan

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Speaker 2: and my son's my youngest son, his best friend moved

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Speaker 2: their family moved from New York to Tokyo, and we

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Speaker 2: went to visit a couple of years ago and it

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Speaker 2: was magical and beautiful. And I've played, I've had some

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Speaker 2: really incredible I've played with some incredible Japanese players in

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Speaker 2: New York over the years and in Oakland actually, and

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Speaker 2: and just really love how technical they are. Then Cape

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Speaker 2: verdie That's a shout out to my friend Janine, who

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Speaker 2: is Cape Verdian from the Boston area and it is

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Speaker 2: a dream of mine to see a game with her family,

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Speaker 2: and I'm hoping that that can happen. Then the United States,

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Speaker 2: and I you know, I'll root for the United States

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Speaker 2: in many situations, in most situations because I do. I

381
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Speaker 2: do love the team. I want good things for them.

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Speaker 2: I just always worry how US patriotism is misused then Ireland. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because Irish are just like Ireland. Irish are great, great people,

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Speaker 2: great fans. They're basically Latin American. They're Catholic, they have

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Speaker 2: lots of guilt, they like to drink. I mean, they're

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Speaker 2: just like, you know, I'm just a fan, you know,

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Speaker 2: never been to Dublin. I love Irish writers also, so

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Speaker 2: you know, Ireland's a good pick. I feel like, then

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Speaker 2: any European team that hasn't won the World Cup for

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Speaker 2: the reasons we described, I would put a slight asterisk there.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, of the many multiple wars that have

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Speaker 2: been intra European I'm usually against the the tiebreaker be

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Speaker 2: like are they an aggressor are they not an aggressor?

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Speaker 2: You know which is I understand that's like a kind

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Speaker 2: of false historical thing because all the countries have been

396
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Speaker 2: aggressors and victims at different points in history. But you know,

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Speaker 2: for whatever that's worth, you know.

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Speaker 1: Last time out, last time out, were they aggressors? I

399
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Speaker 1: think is not a bad tiebreaker.

400
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, It's like, you know, I love Russian littercy

401
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 2: so if Russia were playing in the World Cup, I would,

402
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Speaker 2: you know, and I like Russians. I have lots of

403
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Speaker 2: Russian friends, you know, but it's kind of hard to

404
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Speaker 2: root for Russia right now. I find it hard to

405
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Speaker 2: root for Russia right now personally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a reasonable take.

407
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I'm with you. I kind of I

408
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Speaker 2: think I would put this is tough. I have Spain

409
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Speaker 2: than England, but I could really do the other way around.

410
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Speaker 2: I really do like the English team. A lot of

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Speaker 2: a lot of players I think are really good, and

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Speaker 2: I like Okayosaka. So England, Spain right around there, and

413
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Speaker 2: then Germany, France, Italy and Italy I want to say

414
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Speaker 2: is close to the bottom. Because the first World Cup

415
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Speaker 2: game I ever watched was Bulgaria versus Italy in nineteen

416
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Speaker 2: eighty six. And I remember my uncle Bippet when Bulgaria tied,

417
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Speaker 2: like close to the end of the game and Italy

418
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 2: had played they were the reigning champions for eighty two

419
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Speaker 2: and they had played, you know, such a dreary, boring,

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Speaker 2: defensive game. As you were describing Bulgary tide and my

421
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 2: uncle I remember this very clearly, he clapped his hands

422
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Speaker 2: and rubbed him together and he's like, footballer, you know,

423
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Speaker 2: now we're gonna see what football is right. She was like,

424
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Speaker 2: the towns are gonna wake up and show us finally

425
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Speaker 2: what they're made of, you know, because they're Italians and

426
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Speaker 2: you know this kind of like. And I remember watching

427
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Speaker 2: the remaining like five, six, ten minutes of the game,

428
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Speaker 2: waiting for this thing to happen, and my uncle had

429
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: promised me was about to happen, and it never happened,

430
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, come on, like this sucks,

431
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: you know, And so I, like I said, I hold

432
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: a grudge. I love Italy. I have many Italian friends,

433
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 2: including our producer Sean, but that that shit is boring. Lastly, Chile,

434
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 2: and again I could spend the rest of the hour

435
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 2: naming all my Chilean friends, but you know, we have

436
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 2: a rivalry in Latin America, in South America, Brew Chile,

437
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: we have a rivalry. So she just got to be

438
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: at the bottom. Luckily, I don't think that's gonna ever

439
00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:00,479
Speaker 2: come up. You know, I won't ever see Chile. And

440
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 2: in a final, I did actually go with my great

441
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 2: friend Alejandro Sambra, the incredible Chiland novelist. He was in

442
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 2: New York and he invited me to the Copamenica Centennadio final,

443
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 2: which was Argentina Chile, and I refused to wear a

444
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: Chile jersey, but I wore a red Arsenal jersey just

445
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: to make him happy. We went to the game because

446
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: I love Alejandro. You know, I pretended to be It

447
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: was a boring zero zero that ended up in penalty kicks,

448
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 2: which they won, and I pretended to be kind of

449
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 2: nominally happy because you know, On's part of mine. So

450
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: that's my list, and Luke, I hope that helps. I

451
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 2: really recommend that everyone make a hierarchy of loyalties because

452
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: it really simplifies things. And you don't want to there's

453
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: so many games in the first round, right in the

454
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 2: group stages. You don't want to be in a situation

455
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: where you sit on to watch a game and you

456
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 2: don't know who to root for. So to this ahead

457
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: of time, prepare. You've got months to do it. I

458
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: think it's really important.

459
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: All Right, we'll be back after a break to talk

460
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: about the US men's national team.

461
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 2: We're back on the away end on Vanilla Arcone. John,

462
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:16,919
Speaker 2: what's up with US men's national team? Talk to me.

463
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 1: So, I've always thought of the US men's national team

464
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 1: as being a tremendous disappointment and a cause of misery

465
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: in my life. They do nothing but break my heart.

466
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: They infuriate me, They misplaced back passes, send Barbados in

467
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: on goal, etc. Right Like, it's not just losing, it's

468
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: losing to Trinidad and Tobago or failing to beat trinid

469
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 1: out in Tobago and then failing to qualify for the

470
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: World Cup. Right like, that's humiliating. Nothing against my Trinidadian friends,

471
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: but where a nation of three hundred and fifty million people,

472
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: we should be able to find eleven people who can

473
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: be trinnerd aut in Tobago in a game of football.

474
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 2: Agreed.

475
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: And so my feeling has always been the United States

476
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: sucks at soccer and always will And this is a

477
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: sort of ongoing misery in my life. And in doing

478
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: this research over the last week, I have realized that

479
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: I was wrong on every possible level. So, first off,

480
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: in the very first World Cup in nineteen thirty, the

481
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: US finished third, which is the highest ever finish for

482
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: any country outside of South America or Europe. The United

483
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: States is the highest finishing country outside of South America

484
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: or Europe.

485
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: Full stop. Okay, to be fair, there was like twelve

486
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: teams in the first World Cup.

487
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't disagree with you, but still it's a statistic, Daniel,

488
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: And you can't argue.

489
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: With statistics, not arguing, not arguing, you know.

490
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: So then there's the fact that in two thousand and two,

491
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 1: when I personally desperately needed it, because I was living

492
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: in a furnished studio apartment in the midst of trying

493
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: to recover from a mental health crisis and the worst

494
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: breakup of all time. And you know, Daniel, I've had

495
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: some bad breakups.

496
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've seen this was this was worse than those. Okay,

497
00:25:58,680 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 2: all right.

498
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: I was recovering from this mental health crisis, and the

499
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: US made it to the quarterfinals. They won a knockout

500
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: game against Mexico. It was incredible. And so when I

501
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: really needed the US men's national team, in fact, they

502
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: showed up for me amidst my loneliness and fragility, And

503
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: so I should be grateful for that.

504
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 2: Can I jump in there, because I think it's important

505
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: to say that not only did they make the quarterfinals,

506
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: they should have won that game.

507
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: They might Oliver won that game.

508
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 2: They might have won that game. Look, they played against Germany,

509
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: Michael Ballach closer, Miroslav Closer, like you know, one of

510
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: the high scoring players in the history of the World Cup.

511
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: Their goalkeeper Oliver Kah made a number of incredible saves

512
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: and there was a blatant handball. Blatant handball to Greg Berhalter,

513
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 2: who we're going to mention his son later on took

514
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 2: a shot. It appeared at first that Oliver kind had

515
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 2: saved it, but later it was clear in replays that

516
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: it actually there was a German defender who kept it

517
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: out with his hand, with his left hand, and in

518
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: the age of ar that would have absolutely been a

519
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 2: penalty kick. Now we all know penalty case can be missed, etc.

520
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying that, like it was a one

521
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 2: to one game, it was close, and the US had

522
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 2: a ton of chances. Landon Landnovan was in on goal twice,

523
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 2: one on one with Oliver Kahan and couldn't put it

524
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 2: away because Oliver Kon made some incredible saves.

525
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: So yeah, Oliver kN played his butt off that game.

526
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 1: And I agree with you that that year something special

527
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: did happen, and something more special might have happened, and

528
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: in fact, getting out of the group in nineteen ninety

529
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: four was an incredible result. And then they played Brazil

530
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: and lost one nil, and Brazil should have had a

531
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: red card and that game might have gone differently, And

532
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: so you could argue the US has actually been a

533
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: little unlucky in World Cups. But actually where they usually

534
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: get is they go out in the round of sixteen,

535
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: which is about right, because I have to remind myself

536
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: the US men's national team just doesn't have that great

537
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: of player base to work from. Like I, of course

538
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: expect them to be very good, because our women's hockey

539
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: team is good, and our cross country skiers are good,

540
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: and we generally overperform in athletics because we spend a

541
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: lot of money on it in the US.

542
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: But and then the US women's national team is incredible.

543
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: The US women's national team is you know, certainly was

544
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: the best in the world for many decades, might still

545
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: be the best in the world. And so I have

546
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: this expectation that we should be competing for the World

547
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: Cup every time we go out, and then I'm devastated

548
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: when we tie trind Out in Tobago uh one one

549
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: in On October tenth, twenty seventeen, the day that my

550
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: book Turtles all the way down came out, thus ruining

551
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: my publication date not to make it about me. So

552
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: the truth is, in nineteen ninety four we made it

553
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: out of the group with a bunch of players who

554
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: played in England and Germany second and third and in

555
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: a couple cases fourth divisions. There was no professional soccer

556
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: league in the US at the time, and now all

557
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: of that has changed, right, Like, there is a pretty good,

558
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: not great, but pretty good professional soccer league in the

559
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: United States. We have good players who play in the

560
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: top leagues in Europe. We've got Timothy Waia, who's the

561
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: son of Liberian president and former great footballer George Way.

562
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: We've got Weston McKinney. We've got our Lord and Savior,

563
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: Christian Polistic. But I think we also need to remember,

564
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: like there are one hundred over one hundred English players

565
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: in the Premier League. There are over twenty Spanish players

566
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: in the Premier League. Like I'm not talking about who

567
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: plays at Real Madrid and Barcelona. There's over twenty who

568
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: play in England, and there's over ten Irish players in

569
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: the Premier League, and there are four Americans. This similar

570
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: underrepresentation in Italy and Germany and Spain. We just don't

571
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: have that many great players, Like we don't have a

572
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: standout goalie right now, we don't have a standout striker.

573
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: We aren't Brazil, and so if we make it to

574
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: the round of sixteen and then lose, which has historically

575
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: been approximately our level, I shouldn't be that disappointed. I

576
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: should understand like we are doing about as good as

577
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: we can do.

578
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: Can I jump in there because I agree with you,

579
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: especially about the strikers. However, our two strikers have really

580
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: world class, outstanding names, true, just say them and they're

581
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 2: so fun to say. Regard though Peppi, I just I

582
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: love that name Fuller in Belligan again, like world class name.

583
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: Can they finish not consistently, but they're really fun to say.

584
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I don't disagree with you. I think that

585
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: there's a lot to recommend it. A Haji Wright is

586
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: a great name, wonderful name. You know, We've got some

587
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: great names on the team, no getting around, Yeah.

588
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: Yeah no, got a respect, full respect.

589
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about the finishing quality. And then I'm

590
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 1: not sure about our goalkeeping, which has historically been an

591
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: American strength. You know, the line in England was always

592
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: like those Americans, they can't play with their feet, but

593
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: they're pretty good with their hands.

594
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is which is funny because now goalkeepers are

595
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: are asked now to play with their feet, which has.

596
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: Got to be very good.

597
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: Shut the door on a lot of American goalkeepers. Shout

598
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 2: out to that guy who played at Arsenal for a season,

599
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: and then Michel was like, bye, I can't remember his name.

600
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: Matt Turner.

601
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: Oh, Matt Turner, poor guy, shot supper, you know, terrible

602
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: to his feet.

603
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we should mention, by the way, that there

604
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 1: are a few figures in American soccer that, depending on

605
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: your worldview, are either people who bridge the gap between

606
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: the game and the American public or people who make

607
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: it impossible for us to ever pete on a truly

608
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: international level. And among the top of them is Alexi Lawless,

609
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: the soccer commentator of former American defender Ginger famously yeah,

610
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: famously red curly hair flowing to his shoulders back in

611
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: the day. And you know, we've got we've got some

612
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: good soccer commentators, We've got Rob Stone. We also have

613
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: some bad soccer commentators like Alexi Lallis.

614
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: So yeah, I've seen Alexi las play live. Actually, the

615
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 2: first game that I ever saw the World Cup was

616
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: the very famous, slash infamous US Columbia game in in

617
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, in the game where at the Rose

618
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: Bowl where Andres Escobar scored an own goal that he

619
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: later lost his life was killed when he returned to

620
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 2: Columbia because of his own goal. Yeah, so I was

621
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: at that game, and I remember, so I'm of the

622
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 2: two of US. I can say that I've seen Alexi

623
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: Lawis in all his glory uh in nineteen ninety four

624
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: play and I agree with you on your your sort

625
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: of uh. There's a real blowhard quality to his commentating

626
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: and and most of what he says I find inane.

627
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: I don't think he's the problem though. I think that

628
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: the problem really is the hunger of the US players,

629
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: And I think that comes from soccer being a suburban

630
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: sport and a kind of suburban middle class sport. And

631
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: I think the kids who play elsewhere in the world

632
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: plet's play with more hunger. You know, there's more at

633
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: stake if you're you know, if you're Lucho Diaz, you

634
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: know from Columbia, Like you know, soccer is is is

635
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: your savior. You know, I had a friend and hit

636
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 2: her son played on a pretty good team. I think

637
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 2: it was a Red Bulls Academy team, and they went

638
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 2: to they went to play a few like you know,

639
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: they were like fourteen. They went to play fifteen games

640
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: in England. So it went on a tour. And she

641
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: told me later that when the kid came back, he

642
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, he wouldn't say anything about the trip. You know,

643
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: it's like, how was the trip, Oh, yeah, it was fine,

644
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 2: went to this museum and he would say things, but

645
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: never about the games. And finally she was like, okay, son,

646
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: what about the games? And she was like, mom, we

647
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: never touched the ball.

648
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: You know.

649
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 2: So they're like the Red Bulls Academy team or whatever

650
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: it was. You know, the best players in New York

651
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 2: from the Upper West Side and elsewhere go to New

652
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: York and play like the aston Villa. Go to England.

653
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, played aston Villa, you know, under fourteens and

654
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: just it's like, you know, men against boys, they just

655
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: never touched the ball. They get trounced and come back

656
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: with their tail between their legs, and I think it's just,

657
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: you know, the training is harder elsewhere the tactical understanding

658
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 2: is more sophisticated, and then in the case of lots

659
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: of places, people are playing with just more hunger because

660
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 2: they're lives depend on it.

661
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also think we have a big pay to

662
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: play problem in the United States, which is why soccer

663
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: is such a suburban sport in the US. Because you know,

664
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: in fact, we were preparing for this, our producer, Sean Sean,

665
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: if you don't mind coming on for a second, you

666
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: were like, I don't know a ton about soccer, but

667
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: I can't help but notice I recognize some of these names.

668
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, as someone that probably followed it

669
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 3: closer in the nineties and growing up like all of

670
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 3: these people, I was like, oh, yeah, I mean these

671
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 3: guys played on the team, you know, back in the nineties,

672
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 3: or they're you know, coaches in the past ten years

673
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: or whatever. So yeah, there's definitely it feels. I mean,

674
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: maybe nepotism is not a fair word here, and maybe

675
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 3: you guys can get into some of the nuances of that,

676
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 3: but it's hard to ignore at the same time considering

677
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 3: the you know, very number of spots.

678
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I mean we've got Giorana, We've got seb Berhalter,

679
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: We've got Tim Wao. Like, these are famous last names

680
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: in American football and global football. And I think that

681
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: is not because of like fancy bloodlines, or indeed even

682
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: because of like nepotism on the level of, oh you

683
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: have a famous last names, you are more likely to

684
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: get selected for the national team. I think it's that,

685
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's about the way we develop players. It's

686
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: it's a pay to play game. Like you have to

687
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: pay thousands of dollars to be in a year to

688
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: be in some of these elite soccer clubs, and those

689
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: who can afford the best training just have a better

690
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: shot of becoming the best players. If you'd given Daniel,

691
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: if you'd given Daniel the best club team in the

692
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: world when he was six years old and you told him,

693
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: which his parents would never do, unfortunately, stop paying attention

694
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: to school, Focus on football, you know, Do not become

695
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: a doctor, Do not become I'm a writer. Focus on

696
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: what matters. I genuinely think he would have had a shop.

697
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of kids like that. To be fair,

698
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: I think they did say did not become a writer?

699
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: Uh was actually said, so yeah, yeah, I mean again,

700
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: I hesitate to say that, I, you know, I could

701
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: have done what like gotten a junior college scholarship that,

702
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: you know, to play Birmingham Southern Like maybe you know,

703
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I think you're onto something. I

704
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: remember talking to a friend of mine, college professor in Texas,

705
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 2: Mexican guy, his son goalkeeper, and one day his son announced, uh,

706
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: he's like mom, Dad, He's like, soccer is going to

707
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: lift this family out of poverty. And my friend was like,

708
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 2: looking around, He's like, what are you talking? Like for

709
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 2: a second, what in our life has led you to

710
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: believe we're living in property? Like I teach at the

711
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: University of Texas, Like you know, I have tenure, I

712
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 2: have tenure. Your mom is you know, is a profession?

713
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: Like you know, what are you talking about?

714
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: You know?

715
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,399
Speaker 2: And then it was just this conversation was like look

716
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 2: all right, man, you know you go, you know whatever

717
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 2: you need to justify this to to, like you know,

718
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: give it your all, goo go for it. But like

719
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 2: you know, he told the story with this look of

720
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 2: just absolutely like like you know the things kids say,

721
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: you know, but I think there's something about that, like

722
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: that that that that level of passion of a player

723
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 2: like you know lutely as I mentioned earlier, Uh, you know,

724
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 2: suburban US kids don't have that, and we can thank

725
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 2: our quality of life for a lot of things, but

726
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 2: maybe not for that.

727
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: I think you need a mix of passion and resources though,

728
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: because you have to have the resources surrounding you to

729
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 1: be able to develop into a good player like all.

730
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: You know, this is the problem with the Sierra Leonian

731
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: national team, right, is that they just don't have the

732
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: resources to develop their best players. And you know whereas

733
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: a country like Nigeria does have more resources to develop

734
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: their best players. So I think it depends. I think

735
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: you need to hit some kind of think. I think

736
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: that's part of what makes it hard, some kind of balance.

737
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 1: But I think in the US we're doing it all wrong,

738
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: and we're starting to get some things right, We're starting

739
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: to do a better job of developing players. But I

740
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: also think there's something to recommend, like not having a

741
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: system like they have in England, where you know, you

742
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: bomb out at the age of eleven, or at the

743
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: age of fourteen, or at the age of sixteen, and

744
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 1: you're told I'm sorry, you're never going to be able

745
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: to live this dream and you've put all your eggs

746
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: into that metaphorical basket, and like it's very difficult to

747
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: do anything else with your life. Like I see that

748
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: all the time as an AFC Wimbledon fans fan. We

749
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: get kids from other academies, from Premier League academies who

750
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: end up at AFC Wimbledon and they're really limited in

751
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: some of their some of their educational opportunities because they've

752
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: been told to focus so much on football. So I

753
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: think it's a mixed bag. I think it's a complicated,

754
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: complicated story. And the pure of a country, of course,

755
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: is not necessarily to make great footballers.

756
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: Right, that's true. That's true, there's the that's that's absolutely true.

757
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 2: I remember seeing a video of Jack Grealish at the

758
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: England camp and someone help a map of England and

759
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: they were like, so can you point to where you're from?

760
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 2: And you know, he had no idea, He couldn't, like

761
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 2: he couldn't, He just didn't know, you know, And and

762
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 2: my first reaction was like, you know, kind of shock

763
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,720
Speaker 2: and and i'll be honest, a little like titters and laughter.

764
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: And then I was like, man, he's been failed by

765
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 2: the system, and thank god he has an you know,

766
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 2: incredible athletic talent, and he can you know, he's not

767
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: going to go hungry. But what if he was just

768
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: like fifteen percent worse, he would not be in the

769
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: Premier League, he wouldn't be a national team player. He

770
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 2: would and he has not been given any education to

771
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 2: to you know, even know where his you know, where

772
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: his hometown is on a on a map of England's,

773
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: which is nuts.

774
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: I struggled to find Indianapolis, to be fair, Yeah.

775
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: I agree, but you can find Birmingham, Daniel.

776
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 3: Are you saying that you also have trouble finding Indianapolis

777
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 3: on a map? That's why you agree?

778
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: No, I think I know where Indiana is. If you

779
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 2: showed me the fifty states, I could find Indiana and

780
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: then I would just put indian Apps in the middle somewhere.

781
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: That's actually how they did it. Yeah. They drew a

782
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: line down the center of the horizontally and vertically, and

783
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, there's a river there, that's where

784
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: we'll build our capital. And that's how Indianapolis came to be.

785
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: No joke, that's actually true. That's a fact.

786
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that's a true story. Shout out to the

787
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: Indiana legislature back in eighteen thirty nine.

788
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: I love it.

789
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: I love it, all right, all right, Daniel, I think

790
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: we have delved adequately deep into the US men's national team.

791
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: I think the goal for the USMNT in this cycle

792
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: is to make it to the knockout rounds, maybe to

793
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: win one knockout game, make it to the last sixteen.

794
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: If we can go further than that, that'd be amazing that.

795
00:41:58,920 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: That's got to be the goal.

796
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: You've made me want to move to you as bump

797
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: us up a couple of places. So in my loyalty hierarchy.

798
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: So you did your job.

799
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: That's good to hear.

800
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: Well done. Okay, we'll be right back after a quick break.

801
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: We're back on the way end. And don I want

802
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 2: to tell you a story about a soccer club called

803
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: Left Wing FC. I played for many years with Left

804
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 2: Wing FC, and when I moved to the Bay Area,

805
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: my sister and her wife were already playing on left

806
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: Wing FC, and it was told The story they told

807
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: me was that it was basically a bunch of activists

808
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 2: blocked the Bay Bridge as a protest against the imminent

809
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: Second Iraqi War, second war in Iraq. Talking about George W. Bush.

810
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: This would have been two thousand and two, two thousand.

811
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: And three exactly. So these were huge protests. You can

812
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: go back and find the video of this on YouTube.

813
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure two thousand and two they blocked the Bay

814
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 2: Bridge and then a lot of these folks realized they

815
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: were really out of shape when they had to run

816
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: from the cops. And so as a result of this

817
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: sort of like kind of striking and sudden awareness of

818
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: their own decrepitude and lack of athleticism, they were like,

819
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 2: we need to start getting in shape, you know, for

820
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 2: the next protests. And they did it with soccer, and

821
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 2: they did it specifically with a set of values and

822
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: ideals which I think are really lovely. One the game

823
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: is open to all, the score is always too too

824
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,479
Speaker 2: and we're we're not here to whin, We're here to learn,

825
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 2: you know. So I played with this group, and there

826
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: was a kind of an offshoot of this group that

827
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 2: was a little bit more competitive, so that we play

828
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: these games on Sundays and then say Wednesday nights we

829
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: would play our league games and those were competitive, but

830
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 2: the Sunday games were really just all about family and

831
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: friends and similar group. You know, people in Oakland is

832
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: basically like an extension of LA in some ways, and

833
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: so a lot of people were constantly coming and going

834
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: from LA. And there was a similar group formed in

835
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 2: LA called Footballistas. And about ten twelve years ago we

836
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: started something called Copacumunida, which is just alternating years either

837
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 2: in LA or in Oakland. Everyone from LA would come

838
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: up and we would you know, have a weekend of

839
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: soccer and parties, and then everyone would go the next

840
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 2: year down to La. Super fun. And I played with

841
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 2: this group for a long time, basically until my youngest

842
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: son was born. And then you know, the kind of

843
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 2: like lackadaisical California, you know, hippie activists vibe was like

844
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 2: really tough because when you have a young kid, I

845
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: need the game to start at the time it's going

846
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: to start, because I need to go back home, you know.

847
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 2: And you know these these acts ever was activists and

848
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 2: organizers and teachers and you know, and weekends they're just

849
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: like Lucy Goosey and I'm like, it's like tenet, we're

850
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 2: playing at ten o'clock, right, and you show up at

851
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: like ten o'clock and like no one's there, and they

852
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 2: like eleven o'clock people start playing, and I was just like,

853
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 2: and I moved to like meet up where you like

854
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 2: pay money to play and have to show up at

855
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 2: the time. And so I gave in to the kind

856
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: of strictures of domestic life and kind of stopped playing.

857
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 2: Now I'm going to all through this because last weekend

858
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 2: I was back in Oakland to visit my family, and

859
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: my nieces have started playing with Left WINGFC, and they're

860
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: seventeen and fourteen, and my sister and her wife still

861
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 2: go out and they don't play anymore, but they sort

862
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 2: of kind of watch and cheer, and so they were like,

863
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 2: til Downey, do Doney, you want to play with us?

864
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, sure. And then something happened,

865
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 2: which is actually a great thing if you like, you know,

866
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: soccer stuff. I had not brought any soccer stuff, so

867
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 2: I was in this situation where I was morally obligated

868
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 2: to go buy soccer gear. WI is like, great, a

869
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: terrible thing. It's a wonderful excuse. You're like, you know,

870
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: I could either be a bad uncle or I could,

871
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 2: you know, go buy some shoes. So I went to

872
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: the soccer store in El Crito, just went a town

873
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 2: next to Oakland and and I'm looking, I'm looking, I'm looking,

874
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: and I want to spend too much, but I also

875
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 2: want to buy something I'm never gonna wear again. And

876
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: I have this conundrum, and I want to show you

877
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: these shoes, and I want to say prepfast by saying

878
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: I love the color. And two they were on sale,

879
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: and these are the shoes. But now, yeah, do you

880
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 2: see what they say on there?

881
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: No, what do they say?

882
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 2: So I can't say, maybe you'll maybe you'll recognize that.

883
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 2: Oh they're real Madrid shoes. They're real Madrid shoes. O.

884
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: Yikes.

885
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: Okay, so there were fifty bucks, which is a really

886
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 2: good price. They're purple, which I love right away.

887
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 1: Look at look at my shoes.

888
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 2: Oh those are nice. Those are really nice. Kind of

889
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 2: match kind of match, yeah, they kind of match. Uh

890
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: So these are a Da Sambas and they are purple,

891
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: and they have this one defect, which is that they

892
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 2: say real Madrid on them, and they have the real

893
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 2: Madrid logo on the back. And I'm just wondering don

894
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: this whole setup was because I ended up sort of

895
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 2: being like, well, the price is right, the color's nice.

896
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: No one's gonna know and then I just you know,

897
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 2: and and I get to be a good uncle. So

898
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 2: I went to go play to my triumphant slash competent

899
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: return to Action with love Wing FC, and it was

900
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 2: really fun. I played with my nieces and saw a

901
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,439
Speaker 2: bunch of old friends. But I was wearing Real Madrid shoes,

902
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: and I was wondering, if you were in a similar situation,

903
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: would you have bought Red Say Man United shoes.

904
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a hard no for me. That's gonna

905
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: be a hard no, not least because of the no. Yeah,

906
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 1: I would not have done that.

907
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 2: I would, But what if the other shoes were like

908
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 2: like these were half off? Because I presume most people

909
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: aren't hip enough to love purple shoes.

910
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: I think it's more than most people are too hip

911
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: to love Real Madrid.

912
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: Okay, we're talking about like the most popular club in

913
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 2: the world, and no disrespect to your club or to

914
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 2: any others, but like Real Madrid is objectively like a

915
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: gigantic club with fans everywhere in every little last milk

916
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 2: and cranny of this planet of ours. So I think

917
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: that's not.

918
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: Accept Oakland except Oakland.

919
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: That is true. Actually, I mean I will say that

920
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: a left wing FC. At left wing FC, there were

921
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: no Madrid fans because Madrid was, you know, this very

922
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: political team. Madrid is the team of Franco, to the

923
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 2: point where one time we were looking at maybe getting

924
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: in away jersey and our home jerseys were red obviously,

925
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 2: and I meekly suggested that we get white jerseys. And

926
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 2: I was like, nearly like excommunicated from this group of leftists.

927
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 2: I would have to do like a a kind of uh,

928
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: you know, self criticism. And I was like, look, I

929
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: didn't meet like Franco real Madrid white. I just met

930
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 2: white jerseys. But I had to explain myself. So I

931
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 2: understand maybe maybe maybe among left wing like no one

932
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 2: wears real Madrid gear. Certainly you don't see it much.

933
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I think I made a choice and it

934
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: was an economical choice and it was a stylistic choice,

935
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 2: and uh, and I got to be a good uncle.

936
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 2: I got to be a good uncle.

937
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: Definitely. It's definitely good to be a good uncle. And

938
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: it's good to have cool purple shoes. I wonder if

939
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: you could sort of decorate the madridness off of them

940
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 1: somehow to change the vibe. If you could have maybe

941
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: your niece's paint the white part of the shoes so

942
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: that it doesn't have the Real Madrid logo on it anymore.

943
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 2: I've thought about that. Yeah. I like Madrid as a city, lovely,

944
00:49:54,920 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: great city. Yeah, thought it was an interesting question to

945
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 2: bring up, and uh, you know, unresolved.

946
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: I just I don't think I feel that strongly about fashion.

947
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: In the end. I feel, you know, I'd rather wear

948
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 1: the colors and logo of almost any other team than

949
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: Manchester United. And I feel similarly about Real Madrid just

950
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: because they beat Liverpool in the Champions League finals so

951
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: many times over the years. So I uh, I would

952
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: not I would not. I would not have done that.

953
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: But also I'm less price sensitive than you are, and

954
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: that's that's a character flaw of mine.

955
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know I've splurged. Believe me, I've splurged.

956
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: You know. I went with my older son to the

957
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:41,959
Speaker 2: Emirates and and and you know, uh, he probably can't

958
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 2: do a semester of college because of that, but it

959
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: was worth it, you know. So I just think I

960
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: just think in the end that no one has to know,

961
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 2: although I did just tell everyone and show everyone. Yeah,

962
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 2: but uh, I just want to choose that I would

963
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 2: be happy to wear later, you know, like because they're

964
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 2: purpleant they seem cool, at least to me. It's it's

965
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 2: my it's my my, my shtake my my vibe, my style,

966
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 2: and I didn't want to buy shoes that I was

967
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: never gonna wear again.

968
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, I get and I like that. I like

969
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: that we both wear Adidas Sambas well into our forties.

970
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean I've been a Dyas for since

971
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 2: I was, you know, a child, So yeah, I kind

972
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 2: of can't get over.

973
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, before we go, we need to give a

974
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: shout out to Button City FC. Daniel Ryan from New

975
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,919
Speaker 1: Mexico wrote to tell us about his club team, which

976
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: just won their first trophy. It is a team of

977
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: game developers whose jerseys are absolute bangers. If you are

978
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: on YouTube you can see them now. We just wanted

979
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: to show you. It's very clear that these folks are

980
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: having a lot of fun, and I mean the crest

981
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: is special.

982
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 2: Wow, it's a beauty. And they also I want to

983
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 2: in the photo that Ryan sent us, not only do

984
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: all do you all have these really lovely jerseys and

985
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 2: they're all, you know, doing that thing where you bite

986
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: the metal. They have a flag. That's so cool. Left

987
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: Wing had a flag. My friend Jacob probably still has

988
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: it hanging on his wall. I think it's important for

989
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: a club to have a flag. And you know, big

990
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: big congrats to Button CITYFC and Ryan, thanks for listening.

991
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 2: And yeah again, if you're on YouTube, you should, you should,

992
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: you'll you'll appreciate these photos for sure, John, I think

993
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: that's all the time we have.

994
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's been a pleasure, as it always is

995
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: to talk football with you. Up the men's national team

996
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 1: in the United States, and up Button City FC.

997
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:46,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and up Purple Sneakers, but not from Realdred. Well yeah, okay,

998
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 2: fair enough. Remember you can write us at away and

999
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: pod at gmail dot com. And thanks to our producer

1000
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 2: Sean and Kurt who make everything work. John's you next week, Man,

1001
00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 2: can't wait.

1002
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 3: Didn't