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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, the

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Speaker 1: podcast that does what it says and the inside all.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and every week I tell

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Speaker 1: you about rebels and revolutionaries and school teachers. This week

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Speaker 1: it's school teachers. Actually it's all three rebels, revolutionaries and

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Speaker 1: school teachers. But anyway, our guest today is James Stout.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing, James? I'm doing very well. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to learn about someone who is all

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Speaker 1: those three things. James. Have you ever been in a school? Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have multiple times. Actually, how did how did that

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Speaker 1: go for you? Well? Mixed experiences. To be honest, I've

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Speaker 1: found it difficult both in their teaching and learning role,

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of discipline. What would you

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Speaker 1: say that you're a teacher? Sometimes? Yeah? I can. I

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Speaker 1: can sometimes be a teacher. That's a thing I can be. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: just just taking notes, okay. And our producer is Sophie.

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Speaker 1: How are you doing today, Sophie? I'm doing well. Margaret,

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Speaker 1: thank you for asking. How are you? I'm doing okay.

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Speaker 1: I I'm completely wired on caffeine because I'm drinking a

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Speaker 1: sparkling water that has a tiny amount of black tea

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Speaker 1: in it, And are you drinking carbonation while podcasting? Oh fuck,

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Speaker 1: you've told me that I'm not supposed to do this. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but anyway, I basically don't drink caffeine, so this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be extra fun. I'm personally very excited about it.

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Speaker 1: Ian edits our audio and on women wrote the theme music.

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Speaker 1: So okay, there's this movie that I think rules and

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Speaker 1: is not the subject of what we're talking about. Is

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Speaker 1: also not Night Riders. It's called The Trotsky. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever seen The Trotsky? Either of you? Trotsky? Does it?

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Speaker 1: Does it have any ice pick scenes? Know? What it is? Is?

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Speaker 1: It's It's from two tho nine. It's Canadian. It's about

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Speaker 1: a rich kid who thinks he's the reincarnation of Leon Trotsky. Amazing.

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Speaker 1: He pisces off his dad by organizing his workers, so

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Speaker 1: his dad sends him to public school as like punishment,

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Speaker 1: and so he starts organizing the students. And the point

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Speaker 1: of me telling you about this movie that I quite like,

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Speaker 1: there's a part at the end where, um, some wild

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Speaker 1: shifts happening and a character is forced to make a

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Speaker 1: speech to rile up the students and His speech is

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Speaker 1: really simple. He's like school sucks. Right. People are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing, but you know whatever, He's like, should it should?

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Speaker 1: Should school fucking suck? No? And okay, that's a really

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Speaker 1: simple part of a movie, right. But I think about

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Speaker 1: this all the time, like school shouldn't suck? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's When I was a kid, I hated school. I

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Speaker 1: dreaded school. I developed an anxiety disorder in order to

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Speaker 1: make myself actually sick in order to not go to

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Speaker 1: school whenever possible. But kids needn't need in education, and

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Speaker 1: parents need childcare, and school should exist. They just need

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Speaker 1: to be really different. So there have been tons of

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Speaker 1: people throughout time who have worked on that, and there

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Speaker 1: have been experiments that have lasted generations, some continue to

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Speaker 1: the day. But today I'm going to talk about some

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Speaker 1: of my favorite I'm watching James get excitedly be talking

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Speaker 1: about He's gonna be great. I'm gonna talk about some

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Speaker 1: of my favorite such experiments, including the modern school, popular education,

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Speaker 1: and the ideas of a Spanish anarchist whose name is

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Speaker 1: Francisco Ferdair. But I'm gonna accidentally call him for our

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Speaker 1: over and over again because there's a bunch of people

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Speaker 1: in my family named for our and so every time

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Speaker 1: I see this, I think for our, but for their Anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's not the important part. Francisco over threw assumptions about

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Speaker 1: popular education, and his ideas got him murdered by the

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Speaker 1: Spanish state. But his ideas outlasted him, like all of

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Speaker 1: the best ideas do. So. But before I talk about him,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about nineteenth century education and some of

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Speaker 1: Francisco's precursors, who I like, maybe just as much, some

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Speaker 1: of them, I maybe even like more. Um, how you

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Speaker 1: how how much of I'm I'm curious because maybe people

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Speaker 1: know that I don't always tell the guests that they're

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Speaker 1: going to be on about, and I did not tell

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Speaker 1: James what we're gonna be talking about. Is this a

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Speaker 1: you heard all these folks? Yeah? Yeah, First of all,

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Speaker 1: this has complete surprise to me. It's a nice surprise. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's like Christmas without all the problematic baggage. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I have. I am. I wrote a decent amount about

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Speaker 1: like the chapter in my dissertation about how how the

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Speaker 1: Popular Front you want to call it the Popular Front right,

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Speaker 1: like how anti fascist organizing tried to reimagine education in

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Speaker 1: an anti fascist way, and how anarchists sports groups specifically

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Speaker 1: tried to build physical education into education because they were

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Speaker 1: really bummed that working class kids kept dying of tuberculosis

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Speaker 1: or like engaging in child labor and then coming out

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Speaker 1: like people can't see me because this is an audio medium,

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Speaker 1: but they come out like stunted or otherwise physically disabled,

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Speaker 1: um from working in factories from a young age or drowning,

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Speaker 1: big big thing with teaching working class kids to swim,

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Speaker 1: So I'm familiar with that. And then do the history

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Speaker 1: of like anti fascist sports, so British nineteenth century education

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Speaker 1: and ideas of like muscular Christianity and like using education

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Speaker 1: to create young officers for the empire, using sport within

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Speaker 1: the education to like do violence but stick to the

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Speaker 1: rules and do as you're told. Like that that's why

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Speaker 1: sport exists and where we took play and made it

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Speaker 1: into sport. If there's a different things, right, support has rules,

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Speaker 1: play doesn't. And so I'm very familiar with the discourse

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Speaker 1: on like Robert Arnold and the Rugby school and muscular Christianity.

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Speaker 1: But I'm excited about this. Awesome, Yeah, no, this is good.

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Speaker 1: You have. I was thinking, I was excited to have

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Speaker 1: you as the guest for this one. So we're gonna

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Speaker 1: lay our scene. Okay, wait, no, no no not. I keep

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Speaker 1: thinking about the players sport thing. Um, did you grow

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Speaker 1: up in in Calvin and Habbs No, okay, don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's an American thing. There's this thing called Calvin Ball

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Speaker 1: that they play. Okay, and Calvin plays Calvin Ball and

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Speaker 1: it Calvin Ball has rules. The rules change whenever you

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Speaker 1: want them to constantly, um, and it is just the

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Speaker 1: most fun game. You just go out and with the

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Speaker 1: ball and your friends and you make up new rules

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Speaker 1: as you go. And everyone's like, no, but that's a touchdown,

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Speaker 1: Like no, it's a I don't know I know about sports,

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Speaker 1: Steven fake this right now and touchdown. Yeah yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: it's just I mean one of our friend Daniel, a

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Speaker 1: mutual friend, Daniel like went to Italy recently and discovered

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Speaker 1: some of these folk football traditions, which it's funny like

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Speaker 1: every couple of years they'll pop up on Twitter and

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Speaker 1: they'll be like, look at this crazy historical ship where

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Speaker 1: people like play this ancient form of a game and

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Speaker 1: like football, right, like what you guys call soccer, we

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Speaker 1: what we used to call soccer, right actually, because yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a contraction of association football. So a sock is

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Speaker 1: a contraction of association Yeah, idea about this, yes, because

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's football with rules as opposed to ship

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Speaker 1: folk football where that you can find all these were

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Speaker 1: like two villages would have a competition, right, and they'd

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Speaker 1: have inflated pigs bladder and it's like you get the

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Speaker 1: pigs bladder into the opposing village, you score a point

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Speaker 1: or you win the game, and like you know, stabbing

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Speaker 1: is frowned upon, Like you know, it's really not completely

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Speaker 1: like gentlemanly to use like both narrows or ranged weapons.

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Speaker 1: But I know that you fucking send it, like you

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Speaker 1: get the balload, pick it up, you can get you

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Speaker 1: do what you need to do, like and that these

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Speaker 1: are the like these are the play routes which long

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Speaker 1: predate sport, right, But there British imperialism takes that and

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Speaker 1: it's like, no, we need to make young men to

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Speaker 1: beata rules so they can go to other countries and

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Speaker 1: do colonialism. And from there we get sports and we

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Speaker 1: get the rules, and we get this French aristocratic called

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Speaker 1: Pierre the Kubita who codifies a lot of these things

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Speaker 1: in Olympics, and okay, and then we continue to use

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Speaker 1: that to reinforce like fascism right like we're doing right

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Speaker 1: now in Italy and we did in ninety six. And

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Speaker 1: it's great. There's no problems with it. Yeah, No, everything

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Speaker 1: is going great. That is what people say about the

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Speaker 1: world right now. Um, nice and toasty the world right

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Speaker 1: now and getting toastier where it is cozy is what

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Speaker 1: everyone wants. Um. Yeah, anyone who's listening, if you listen

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Speaker 1: to my Spanish Civil War episode with Jimmy Loftus, all

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Speaker 1: of the stuff about the anti fascist Olympics came from

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Speaker 1: James James's dissertation that they sent me before, um, while

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Speaker 1: I was working on that episode. So all this stuff

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Speaker 1: is going to come up a lot, and I'm really

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Speaker 1: excited about But I didn't know any of that ship.

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Speaker 1: But like this concept of like play and things like

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Speaker 1: that is relate to education, and so we're gonna lay

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Speaker 1: our scene in nineteenth century France where a lot of

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Speaker 1: it's going to start, even though it's a story about

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Speaker 1: twentieth century Spain. Later, but you know, whatever, in the

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Speaker 1: late nineteenth century education of France was in turmoil. On

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Speaker 1: one hand, you had the Catholics. They wanted to teach

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Speaker 1: without state interference. On the other hand, you had the liberals.

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Speaker 1: Basically they the secularists, and they wanted to teach without

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Speaker 1: church interference, but they wanted very much state interference, right,

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Speaker 1: And then you have the people who were like, well,

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Speaker 1: what if we teach without state interference and without church interference.

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Speaker 1: And you have this idea of popular education, which means

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Speaker 1: education of the people, not like people like it, or

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Speaker 1: pop education and popular as a million meanings, and basically

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Speaker 1: popular education was like, hey, what if the working class

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Speaker 1: got to be educated too? And in Nordic countries you

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Speaker 1: get this thing called folk high school. It's really interesting

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Speaker 1: to me that, um, what you're talking about about, like

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Speaker 1: folk football and stuff like I hate The only reason

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Speaker 1: I'm ad at the Nazis is that they took the

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Speaker 1: term folk and made it a bad thing. Well, I

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Speaker 1: guess I have these have to be mad at the

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Speaker 1: Nazis for more than that. If I'm mad about them

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Speaker 1: taking the word in the first place, it done to

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Speaker 1: my other unfortunate stuff you have. But that's one of

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Speaker 1: the bad things yeah, totally. Actually they're responsible for why

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Speaker 1: airship travel is not popular, but that is a story

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Speaker 1: for another time. Yeah, they've pready let it down. Um

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Speaker 1: so all right, it was about okay, so you have

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Speaker 1: full high schools. They start in Denmark, and except the

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Speaker 1: airship chaining is true, but they started Denmark in the

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Speaker 1: eighteen forties, not the airships, the full high schools, and

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Speaker 1: the and full high schools were different everywhere. They actually

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Speaker 1: still exist there. But the idea is basically like fuck

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Speaker 1: degrees fun, only rich people learning ship, Let's just teach kids.

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Speaker 1: And especially at first, this meant like teach kids about

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Speaker 1: democracy and ship like that in a boarding school environment. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of interesting because I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: not reversed now, but it's a little bit different now.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteenth century, at least in at least in

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Speaker 1: the European context or the Western context or whatever, people

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Speaker 1: who were obsessed with book learning and formal education were

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Speaker 1: the more of the conservatives and progressive types at the

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Speaker 1: time thought books were swell, but they cared about hands

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Speaker 1: on instruction and they cared about integrating words. And it

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Speaker 1: was this thing that we'll talk to about more called

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Speaker 1: integrated education, um, where the body and the mind are

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Speaker 1: not so fucking separate. Meanwhile, in Western countries you get

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Speaker 1: leftists and Marxists and anarchists, um, especially the anarcho syndicalists,

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Speaker 1: and they're all talking about how to teach the working class.

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Speaker 1: And the Republicans again um, not the Republican Party, but

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Speaker 1: people who are like, let's not have kings anymore. They

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Speaker 1: were on this too. And the third Republican France, which

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Speaker 1: gets touched on in the Paris Commune episode, gets called

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Speaker 1: the Republic of Teachers France. In particular, one of the

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Speaker 1: main goals of the popular education movement was actually to

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Speaker 1: teach people to not be anti Semites anymore. I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize this, but the the drey Fist affair, which we'll

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Speaker 1: get to a little bit later in this basically they

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Speaker 1: were like, oh, we should probably teach people about there's

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Speaker 1: like other people in the world and that other people

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Speaker 1: are people, and uh you know, um, so yeah, one

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Speaker 1: of the goals of it. And in this environment we

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Speaker 1: get our our first named hero for today. You get

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Speaker 1: Paul Robin. Have you ever heard of Paul Robin? I

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Speaker 1: think I have no. Well, Paul Robin is a Frenchman,

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Speaker 1: despite his name not sounding French at all to me.

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Speaker 1: But what do I know. He was from the middle

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Speaker 1: class and he wound up being at least called by

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Speaker 1: some historians or the storian that I read anyway, specifically

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Speaker 1: about this quote the greatest socialist educator of the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know. I after reading this, I

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Speaker 1: I have no particular doubts that he might have been

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Speaker 1: the greatest socialist educator of the nineteenth century. He was

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Speaker 1: born in eighteen thirty seven in Toulon, Mediterranean city in France.

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Speaker 1: His family was devoutly Catholic in military and he went

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Speaker 1: off to school. And once he went up to school,

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Speaker 1: he was like, actually, I don't know about this stuff

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Speaker 1: I was raised with. I'm gonna become a free thinker.

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Speaker 1: Um specifically, he became something known as a positivist, which

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Speaker 1: I never run across before. You know, this positivism thing.

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Speaker 1: I might have vaguely head of it, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: ring any like, I can't have a care and concept

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Speaker 1: of what that means. Yeah, totally. And you know there's

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Speaker 1: always like, you know, one day someone's going to look

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Speaker 1: back and be like and then they were you know,

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Speaker 1: they'll look at all the weird demarcations we have about

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Speaker 1: ourselves in the early twenty one century and be like, huh,

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Speaker 1: they were on some weird ship. Um, yes, I think

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Speaker 1: they will access to the Twitter arc I've will make

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Speaker 1: it very clear that we're on some weird ship. And yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: sometimes I think about that. They think about like if

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Speaker 1: I was doing my dissertation but they had Twitter, like

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Speaker 1: I would just be like fuck, like, like what to

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Speaker 1: do with all this? You know, like when they look

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Speaker 1: back at our history, and especially the history of the left,

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Speaker 1: maybe they'll be like as I don't know, maybe as

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Speaker 1: bamboo still as I am when I look at the

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Speaker 1: left in seven in Spain when they keep shooting each

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Speaker 1: other and I'm like why, Yeah, it'll be like and

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Speaker 1: then the cat Boys got into a fight with the

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Speaker 1: Primitivest and You're like, what I thought they were all

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Speaker 1: on the same side. I don't get it. Bedroom discourse

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Speaker 1: completely at bed time discourse divided the left and yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what a good future we have to look for. No,

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Speaker 1: it's all gonna We're gonna learn from the lessons of

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Speaker 1: the past. That's why we have shows like mine and

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Speaker 1: shows like yours. I didn't actually introduce that you also

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Speaker 1: have a podcast. You have a podcast? What is your podcast?

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Speaker 1: I do do it Could Happen Here, which is a

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Speaker 1: podcast where we talk about things that could happen here

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Speaker 1: or have already happened, or already increasingly things that are

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Speaker 1: already happening, which is quite disturbing to listen. Drinking disturbed. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so if maybe you maybe you should listen. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the list. Yeah, but I put that on the schedule

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Speaker 1: and you don't have yeah, so if he doesn't have

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Speaker 1: much to do, so it's good to day with podcasts.

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Speaker 1: I need more podcasts in my life immediately. I've been

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Speaker 1: not listening as many podcasts because I haven't been I'm

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Speaker 1: on book tour and I haven't been um working around

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Speaker 1: the house like cleaning and making stuff and like painting

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Speaker 1: the wall or whatever it is wanting. Anyway, whatever, you

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Speaker 1: listen to podcast, dear listener, I appreciate that you listen

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Speaker 1: to it. Okay, positivism and okay, so free finkers. First

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Speaker 1: of all, free thinkers are basically like kind of like

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Speaker 1: early atheists. I mean, obviously there's people didn't believe in

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Speaker 1: God going back whenever, right, But free thinking was basically

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Speaker 1: like it's a little bit less like we are atheists,

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Speaker 1: and it's a little bit different than like we are

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Speaker 1: agnostic and we kind of don't know. Freethinking was like,

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Speaker 1: we believe that people should be able to think about

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Speaker 1: the ship themselves without like just following church doctrine um.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of them ended up atheistic, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of them ended up essentially heretical. As far as

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Speaker 1: I can tell, I don't know. UM. Positivism is a

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Speaker 1: philosophy that holds basically, shit is either true or it isn't.

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Speaker 1: Science is the way that you find out if something

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Speaker 1: is true or not true. It's kind of just an

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Speaker 1: anti superstition sort of thing if you can't prove that

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Speaker 1: something is true rejected. I'm not a positivist, but in

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Speaker 1: a world ruled by the church, this sort of makes

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Speaker 1: to me is a decent step of rejection. So our

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Speaker 1: guy Paul Robin, he's really into Darwin and he's really

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Speaker 1: into not the church. He's like just not into the

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Speaker 1: church at all. And he also gets into socialism. But interestingly,

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Speaker 1: it was this positivism that drew him to the radical

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Speaker 1: left of the left, towards the anarchists or as they

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Speaker 1: saw him, solve themselves at the time, like the Prude

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Speaker 1: hoist because he's in France at the time and there's

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Speaker 1: this whatever anyway, Um, because Marks my, your abenitycher to

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Speaker 1: do that. That could have been an hour of podcasting

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Speaker 1: right there. Yeah yeah no I um yeah no I

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Speaker 1: I life is short yet if you want to hear

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Speaker 1: more about Prude on this of the Paris Commune episode.

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Speaker 1: So Marks and all the other socialists, they were not

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Speaker 1: all the other many of the other socialists, they're into

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Speaker 1: political parties and political action, like action that happens to

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Speaker 1: the state, is what I mean by political action is

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Speaker 1: compared to direct action. Uh. But he was into direct action,

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Speaker 1: and as he saw it, political action was kind of ephemeral.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of superstitious because the state's not real. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so fun femeral things based yeah yeah, yeah. He

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Speaker 1: scienced his way into being an at that's amazing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: these rational scientific anarchism. Yeah. Uh. And he gets really

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Speaker 1: excited about teaching, so when he finishes school, he becomes

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Speaker 1: a teacher. Except they don't really let him do his

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Speaker 1: thing in France at the time. They can't they won't

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Speaker 1: let him teach how he wants to teach, and because

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Speaker 1: he wants to teach in a way that isn't academic,

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Speaker 1: because academia is not very positivist by this conception, because

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Speaker 1: it's this like ephemeral ivory tower. Yeah, I like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: can identify strongly here, I mean joining this. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: wants to teach it a way that is practical and

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Speaker 1: useful to his students, in a way that would be

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Speaker 1: useful to the worker rather than to the state. Right,

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Speaker 1: And he's um, yeah, he's kind of into this idea

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Speaker 1: that the a lot of these people will be talking

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Speaker 1: about here, into this idea that school kind of like

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Speaker 1: you're saying about how sport is training people to be soldiers.

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Speaker 1: School is teaching people to be bureaucrats, is teaching people

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Speaker 1: to be like, you know, I would say workers, but

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Speaker 1: I mean like the working classesn't even go into school

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Speaker 1: most of this time. Yeah, very explicitly so right at

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Speaker 1: the end of the like a nineteenth century, certainly by

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, like it's teaching them to be citizens

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Speaker 1: in a nation like Um, I'm sure you're familiar with

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Speaker 1: peasants into frenchmen, like the idea, Okay, I can get

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Speaker 1: this idea though. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a book, but

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Speaker 1: it's the idea that you take all these distinct regional

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Speaker 1: identities and then through like one of the things education

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Speaker 1: are the ones like roads, trains, military service. You take

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Speaker 1: them from being like oh I I am Catlan, I

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Speaker 1: am Breton, mask whatever wherever you're from, and turn them

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Speaker 1: into French people by like no, like all French people

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Speaker 1: shared is common education and they read and write French,

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Speaker 1: not not Breton or Catlan. Or make them acceptable to capitalism,

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Speaker 1: or make them useful cogs in the machine that produces

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Speaker 1: stuff and people who have money. Yeah, so this is

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Speaker 1: the stuff that Paul Robin is like, I'm not as

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Speaker 1: excited about this um. So he quits, and I like

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Speaker 1: this because I've never run this across this like fuck

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Speaker 1: lofty fake things like the church, the state, in academia,

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Speaker 1: you know, I only like science. And so he starts

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Speaker 1: throwing down with the International Labor Movement, which is the

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Speaker 1: time mostly called in in Europe, the International and he's

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Speaker 1: he throws him with the anarchists, not because he's like

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Speaker 1: I am an anarchist, right, but because they're more excited

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Speaker 1: about education at that time than Marxist, and they're like

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Speaker 1: more willing to kind of listen to him. Who I

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Speaker 1: only learned this recently at the Marxists weren't getting called

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Speaker 1: Marxist yet. Marxist was first used as a pejorative by

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Speaker 1: the anarchists against the Marxists because they're like, oh, you're

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Speaker 1: just listening to the Secretary of the International. You just

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Speaker 1: keep doing whatever he says, you damn Marxist. And to

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Speaker 1: be fair, apparently anarchists, I mean, obviously they got some

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Speaker 1: of their name by calling themselves anarchists earlier, but they

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Speaker 1: started like really getting called the anarchists as a pejorative

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Speaker 1: the Marxists really like when you look at like when

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Speaker 1: you look at Spain, right, it's still a phrase I'd

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Speaker 1: like to use, actually a phrase I wasn't allowed to

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Speaker 1: use my dissertation, which was another topic. That they call

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Speaker 1: themselves the libertarian left, and that fits like and also

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Speaker 1: like it avoids the like a giant clusterfuck of identities

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Speaker 1: that exist within the broad sphere of anarchism, like a

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Speaker 1: totally different diagonal flags yeah yeah, which is part of over,

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Speaker 1: isn't them sadly lost the word libertarians and at least

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Speaker 1: in the United States context, because I'm like, I like

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Speaker 1: to take it back. I think it's a really good

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Speaker 1: way to appeal to people. I'm diverting the fire and

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Speaker 1: like I spent a lot of time in rural areas

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Speaker 1: here and grew up in a rural area, and like

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Speaker 1: I was been to a tenacious unicorn around specifically a

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Speaker 1: couple of times when we've spoken about this. How like

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Speaker 1: most people in rural areas do a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: anarchists shit, but would hate the label anarchist. But like,

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Speaker 1: I think like left libertarian is where we can sometimes

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Speaker 1: meet their as people Like you want to have guns

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Speaker 1: in of your neighbors truck falls in the ditch, you

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Speaker 1: pull it out for them, Like, actually, friend, you're doing anarchism. Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 1: And you know who else will pull you out of

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Speaker 1: a ditch? Um, will they? Sophie. Now, one thing that

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Speaker 1: sponsors tend not to have its tow trucks. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I don't think if you buy enough

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Speaker 1: for their products or services, they could buy like a

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Speaker 1: big truck, one of those ones with four wheels, and

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Speaker 1: then yeah, then they can buy things. What if Triple

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Speaker 1: A is our sponsor today. Oh snap, never, that would

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Speaker 1: be that would be one of the age stands for anarchists. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: totally anarchist automobilis yeah, yeah, yeah, they don't like traffic lights.

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Speaker 1: Traffic lights are restriction of personal freedom. Yeah. Well here's

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Speaker 1: some advertisers. Okay, we are back and we are talking

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Speaker 1: about how the Marxist in the Anarchists. Man, you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh god, I'm so glad I'm listening to podcast this

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Speaker 1: time on the fucking International in the Marxist the Anarchists

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Speaker 1: when they split. But one of the things I think

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Speaker 1: it was like really interesting that came out of that

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Speaker 1: for me is that, you know, Marx's idea Marx, Marx's

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Speaker 1: ideas became the dominant ones because he was the guy

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Speaker 1: writing everything down. So not only is history written by

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Speaker 1: the victors, but would be victors might want to write

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Speaker 1: the history. It's my theory. Yeah. Paul Robin, he's in

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Speaker 1: the International. He's pushing for the liberation of education as

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Speaker 1: a central plank in the International. And his other main

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Speaker 1: thing is feminism on including women's work within the labor movement,

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Speaker 1: which is really contentious at the time, and not just

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Speaker 1: this isn't like an anarchist versus Marxist split. This is

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Speaker 1: a decent humans versus not decent humans split. And basically

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Speaker 1: it is like, along with a few other people, he's like,

424
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 1: women need equal pay, equal voice within the union. Um,

425
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 1: women shouldn't just be fucking servants of their husbands. And

426
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: do you mean to tell me that gender is not

427
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: false consciousness? Uh I, I don't know. Maybe, okay, sorry, Um,

428
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: I think I think I think it's perfectly reasonable to

429
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: say that the struggle for women's liberation is part of

430
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: the struggle for class liberation. And Okay. One of the

431
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: reasons I really like Paul Robin and the way he's

432
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: talking about all this. He's really down for the labor movement.

433
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: But he didn't want like a lot of other people

434
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: on clean some people talk about today. He wasn't like,

435
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: we want education so that the labor movement will be strong.

436
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: He was like, I want a labor movement so that

437
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: workers have enough free time to participate meaningfully in their

438
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: own education. Oh cool, Like the three eights thing, the

439
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: three eights thing. Oh yeah, so it's certainly the Spanish

440
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: anarchists had this thing, the three eight or eight hours

441
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: for work, eight hours for education, self improvement in leisure

442
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: and eight hours for sleep. Oh yeah, totally yeah, and

443
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: he's just like, I love it because he's he's education first,

444
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: you know. And it's the same with women's rights. It

445
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: wasn't so that women could join the labor movement. He

446
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 1: wanted a labor movement so that there would be women's

447
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: rights because women were also workers. And so he was like, well,

448
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: this is what I want. The labor movement is how

449
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: to get it? Um, And that is as someone who

450
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: doesn't like working. Well, actually I like working for myself

451
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: and I'm like working for other people. But anyway, I

452
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: like this about him. And so he's doing this work

453
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: mostly in Brussels. In the late eighteen sixties, he gets

454
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: married and um, the male historian I read about this,

455
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: so I'm not going to call out by name, but

456
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: included his wife's dad's name because his wife's dad was famous,

457
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: and did not include his fucking wife's name. No, incredible,

458
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: incredible speaking of the left. Needs to learn some ship

459
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: magnificent bro leftism. Yeah, after it was like paragraphs of

460
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: being like, and he fought for women's rights, isn't that interesting? Okay?

461
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: And by the late eighteen sixties, coal workers are striking

462
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: across Belgium and nor learned France, and the state did

463
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: what the state would do, give them might nice things

464
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: help the work. No, the state fucked the workers up

465
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: and like shot a bunch of people and arrested a

466
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: bunch of people, intod all of its fucking usual bullshit.

467
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: Really yeah, no, I know, it's um big break from

468
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: the norms for them. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know,

469
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: I'm turning to notice a pattern with states in violence. Yeah, yeah,

470
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: it's almost like even pro state people define a state

471
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: as the monopoly of the legitimate use of force. Yeah,

472
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: I wonder if we should investigate it further. We just

473
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: except no, no, no, yeah, no, except to move on.

474
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: So Paul Robin, he signs a letter of protest against

475
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: police brutality and um, sorry, that's great. What what year

476
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: is this, because how long have we've been trying that ship? Yeah?

477
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,239
Speaker 1: Well what's interested is back then? Yeah, I know, right,

478
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: this is the eighteen sixties, late eighteen sixties is like, hey,

479
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: maybe police to tell is that? But getting op ed

480
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: and it fixed it? Right? Well no, instead they arrested

481
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: him and it's deported him from pell shit for writing

482
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: a fucking signing a letter against police utility. Yeah, I

483
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: think I pointed from the great state of Belgium too.

484
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: I know right, Um, there's really good fries there. Uh,

485
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: get choking out, goodbye crasing and so the beer is good.

486
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: I think about this whenever I think, like I get

487
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 1: asked to sign my name to public letters, and I'm like, yeah,

488
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: I'll do it if I agree. But people act maybe unfairly,

489
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: maybe I'm being me into public letters, but they act

490
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: like this is this like great thing where everyone's coming

491
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: together signed this public letter, And I'm like, it is

492
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: no skin off of my back to write some public

493
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: letter against police brutality right now. Like it, it will

494
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: not affect my life in any negative way, whereas in

495
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties you get fun before it. Yeah, amazing.

496
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: He doesn't really like France, where he's from, so he

497
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: fox off to Switzerland for a while, and then he

498
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: goes back to France because it's eighteen seventy and France

499
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventies getting spicy. This is the year before

500
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: the alumni of the podcast the Paris Commune and Republicans

501
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,919
Speaker 1: and socialists and it or like, oh, let's like overthrow

502
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: the government. Doesn't that sound fun? They're like, yeah, I

503
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: would overthrow the government with you. And they're like well okay,

504
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: and they like, you know, get engaged over with the

505
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 1: government together and we all have left unity ever since.

506
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: Um if you want to hear more about that in

507
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: this whole episode about it. The French government though they

508
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: actually don't want to be overthrown. Yeah, no, and I know.

509
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: And so Paul Robin and thirty seven other people get

510
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: arrested for conspiracy and for writing a book full of

511
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: like neat ciphers and instructions on how to make nitro glycerin. Amazing,

512
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: it's the education yeah, yeah, the anarchist cookbook of the

513
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Yeah. And I think Paul Robin actually didn't

514
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: have anything to do with this book, but his name

515
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: is in it. There's a cipher for his name written

516
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: into the book. Oh that sucks. I know. He just

517
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: gets railroaded. If you're going to go down for the

518
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: nitroglycerin book, at least write a nitric glycerain book, right, Yeah,

519
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: but at least people were talking about them by cool

520
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: code names. I would love to get a copy of

521
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: that and find out what his cool code name was okay,

522
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: so and really after that though, the government realized he

523
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: didn't have a choice in whether or not it was

524
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: going to get overthrown because they're Napoleon guy who was

525
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: also named Napoleon. He gets captured and the empire falls

526
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: and the Republicans. The Republic starts and Paul Robin gets

527
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: led out of prison. So, um, if you get arrested

528
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: for trying to overthrow the government, you should hope that

529
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: your friends are like really working on it out there. Yeah.

530
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: He gets out of prison and he's like, you know what,

531
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: I missed my family in Belgium, and he goes back

532
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: to Belgium. Okay, Belgium is like, we actually don't want

533
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: you either. So he gets arrested and deported again back

534
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: to France just in time. Paris Communy doesn't even hit yet.

535
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: He gets back and it's all like in one fucking year.

536
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: He gets back in time to set up one of

537
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: the precursor communes, the Paris Commune, where they take there's

538
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: like several different cities that took over themselves and declared

539
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: an independent city state that just usually last a couple

540
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: of days. His was in the city Breast, which I

541
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: don't know how to pronounce, and I should have looked

542
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: up before I started talking. Yeah, I think that's it.

543
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: It's a bike race, okay, cool? Yeah yeah, yeah, alright,

544
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: So I know, Andy, this is my entire engagement with his,

545
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: most of France specifically, just like living in my car,

546
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: racing bikes. That's awesome. So then it falls right and

547
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: he goes back into fucking exile. So this guy cannot

548
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: catch a break. And this time he goes, ah, where's

549
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: he going? Yeah, where's he going? Now? He gets on

550
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: a boat to London. Have you ever heard of the

551
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: town called London? Yeah? Interesting choice for him because he's

552
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: gotten French speaking places so far, and I'm sure he'll

553
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: encounter notes and a phobi yeah no, I assume not,

554
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: and people. And then he gets he gets there just

555
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: as the fucking Paris Commune starts, and so we has

556
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: to sit there in fomo and survivor's guilt as the

557
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: as his like people trying to live the same dream

558
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: as him, take over the largest city in Europe and

559
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: declared a free place, and like everyone sets up all

560
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: these educational programs and there's all this ship um and

561
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: it and it's basically like sets up all the modern

562
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: Western ideas about how to have a cool revolution, unlike

563
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: the sort of less cool revolutions where you just put

564
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: capitalists in charge. Okay, so meanwhile, all this fucking weird

565
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: in fighting is happening instead of the lovely union of

566
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: all the different revolutionary parties is starting to starting to

567
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: break up. They're they're no longer is enamored with each other.

568
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: The International um Mars basically takes control of the International,

569
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: and he commits it to a single political goal instead

570
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: of a broader coalition. And so when he declares that

571
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: it is now a singular political goal and everyone has

572
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: to agree with all of the things, Marks personally kicked

573
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: Paul Robin out even before he kicked out the anarchists.

574
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: Shortly after, Yeah, shortly thereafter he kicks out the anarchists

575
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: more broadly, and the International fell apart because it actually

576
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: worked better as a coalition. Whoops. Anyway, Paul Robin he's

577
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: an anarchist and that he doesn't like state or capitalism,

578
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: but he doesn't actually really like the other anarchists, and

579
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: I think he's still pretty bitter about this like book

580
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: that got him fucking thrown in prison, and he doesn't

581
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: like how conspiratorial and shipped all the other anarchists he knew,

582
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: because he just wanted to like teach people, right, Yeah,

583
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: so above all he's an education guy, a women's rights guy,

584
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: and a positivist, a scientist and so and it was

585
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: those ideas that led him to his political beliefs. Right,

586
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: So he goes back to his real love teaching, teaching

587
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: and organizing educational systems, because it's not just enough to

588
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: be a teacher for him. He's also just thinking about

589
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: pedagogy more more broadly. And France at this point has

590
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: swung secular right, it is no longer as much rule

591
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: by the Church and the Third Republicans doing its thing,

592
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: and and so part of its thing is a free,

593
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: obligatory and secular education, which is uh, a fucking step up, right,

594
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: even if it's like, hey, here's how we Peasants into

595
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: Frenchmen or whatever, it's still step up from what the

596
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: fucking Catholics monarchs were doing. And this Protestant, pacifist and

597
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: anti anti semit guy was in charge of primary education.

598
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: So he hooks Paul Robin up with the job. It's like, hey,

599
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: you you're like a cool lefty pedagogy guy. Here's a

600
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: job eighty. He gets and put in charge of an orphanage,

601
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: the provost orphanage. And at very least he's in charge

602
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: of the school at the orphanage. I think he's in

603
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: charge of the entire orphanage itself. And this is where

604
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: he starts doing his most influential work. He's already been

605
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: like part of numerous revolutions and like deported three or

606
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,479
Speaker 1: four times or whatever the funk, right, but taking over

607
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: this orphanage and teaching kids is his influential work that

608
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: changed the world. Most of the other pedagogical thinkers at

609
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: the time remained thinkers, and we're just writing about these ideas,

610
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: like wouldn't it be great if we did this? And

611
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: he's like, well, I got a job, but now I'm

612
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: doing this. And he was really fucking good at administrating

613
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: a school and teaching, and he was in charge of

614
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: hundreds of students. Uh. It was forty eight when he

615
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: first started, and by the end the time he left

616
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: fourteen years later, it is a hundred and eighties students

617
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: at a time at this university. And he believed in

618
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: integrated education. And this is actually I'm kind of kind

619
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: of curious your thoughts about how this this works. It's

620
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: an education that's both intellectual and practical for people from

621
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: all classes. The upper classes need to get their hands dirty,

622
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: the working classes need an opportunity to exercise their intellectual capacity. Uh.

623
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: And and learning is a lifelong pursuit. He wants he

624
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: gives his kids diplomas because he needs they need them

625
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: in the world they're in. He's like that much of

626
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: an ideological asshole, but he um, unlike some of the

627
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 1: people get to later. But whatever, he wants a world

628
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: without diplomas where because you're never done learning. Um yea,

629
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: And yeah, I still gave his kids diplomas. But and

630
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: everything is taught alongside practical education and also sports and

631
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: like like physical education, um, which I I don't know.

632
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'm interested to hear. What, Like did

633
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: they do sports or physical culture? Like it's this whole

634
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: movement around this time, like the so called movement. Um

635
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: it means falcon in check in check, but like it's

636
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: like a physical culture even that isn't necessarily sport. But

637
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: the idea is that it's part of a complete education

638
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: to shape better citizens in the democracy, to create it

639
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: was it was very Um, it was big in Catalonia

640
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: in the in the nineteen thirties. It sort of grew

641
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: out of this check thing, but popping up all over Europe,

642
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 1: you had these like physical culture things that weren't quite sport,

643
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: and like sometimes they were very disciplined, like German turn

644
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: in of course the Germans. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

645
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: the Germans have developed like an authoritarian form of gymnastics,

646
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: basically fashion fast dancing, sort of fast flash dancer. H yeah, yeah, yes,

647
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 1: it's it's fast flashdance. It's a horrible image. Yes, I'd

648
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: be interested to know what kind of physical culture of

649
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: sport that he kind of pursued. Do you know, I

650
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: don't totally know. The stuff I'm reading, like doesn't get

651
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: as much into it besides talking about how like how

652
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: sport was included. Everything that you're saying about the rest

653
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: of it does make me think that it might be

654
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: more of this physic all culture stuff. But I couldn't.

655
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: But that's a little bit maybeing like, oh, yeah, I

656
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: know he did the cool thing because he's a cool

657
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: person to cool stuff, you know. Um, yeah, no, thanks, yeah,

658
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: So I'm not totally sure. They were definitely anarchists who

659
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: did competitive sport as well. I guess certainly by the

660
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: time you get to popular sport in Spain in eighteen thirties,

661
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: ye of anarchists participating in competitive sport. The end is

662
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: always like when we look at the popular Olympics, right,

663
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: the ang goal is not to reward people who are

664
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: born with particular physical excellence so much is to improve

665
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: the well being of the working class. Yeah, and and

666
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: that is absolutely one of his whole things is he's

667
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 1: not really big into competition, and he's like specifically into

668
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: like helping each individual kid develop their interests and their

669
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: strengths and like shore up their weaknesses and ship right.

670
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: Like that is like more than the integrated education. It's like, yeah, okay,

671
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: it's like both practical and petty or intellectual or whatever,

672
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: but it's it's even more than that. It's like it's

673
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: not just personalized like from the outside. It's like from well,

674
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: I'll just I'll just keep talking about what he did.

675
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: So everything is taught alongside practical education. There's travel memoirs

676
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: and personal accounts instead of most of the history books, right,

677
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: because they're like, oh, this is a way to tie

678
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 1: the history into something which might be familiar to listeners

679
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: to the show. Uh, boys and girls were educated in

680
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: the same class. And this is like a big part

681
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: of what all of the radical like, you know, people

682
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: getting killed for their political educational beliefs, where like boys

683
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: and girls should be taught in the same class, um,

684
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: And it's both to ensure that they received the same education.

685
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: But also and this is really interesting to me, I

686
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: didn't I only ever heard the like, oh, this is so,

687
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 1: let you know, girls get the same education as boys

688
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: or whatever, right, But part of it for him was

689
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: that he believed that boys, by making friends with and

690
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: interacting with girls, would be would actually understand girls and

691
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: like less think of them as this other that they

692
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: would then mistreat right and become insul Yeah basically, and

693
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: like yeah, and and that or or even like happily

694
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: fucking but like only hanging out with the boys and

695
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 1: treating women like objects. Yeah yeah, great, a separate spheres

696
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: kind of gender world. And so boys would learn cooking

697
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: and sewing, and they helped in the laundry, and everyone

698
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: gets sex education, which I believe included a lot of

699
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: birth control talk, because that's like something I'll get into

700
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: about his whole thing later and Okay, the most contentious

701
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: thing he did, certainly to his own kids. The most

702
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: contentious thing he did he put his kids in the orphanage. Amazing. Yeah,

703
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: I think that's great. Yeah, he's like committed to this,

704
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: being like he's doing as he would want done kind

705
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, exactly. Um and it, at least the

706
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: one report I've read made this made his kids kind

707
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: of unhappy, but it um, it made all the other

708
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: kids very happy that they were like, oh, this person

709
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: actually cares about us. We are actually being treated like

710
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: we are as kids. Fair. If I was a kid,

711
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: I might be better too. But I also think it's

712
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 1: yeah to kind of standing against the family. And one

713
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: of the most interesting things about him, I think is

714
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: that he's not writing his own Look how great I am, right,

715
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 1: because all of the stuff he writes is like, here's

716
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: how teaching works. And also all of this like we'll

717
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: get into it, almost a creepy level of science, very

718
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: explode whatever. He like he tracks everything about kids because

719
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: he's a scientist and this way that I'll get into

720
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 1: in a minute. But but we it's not him being

721
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: like I am the best and this is the best

722
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: way to teach. Instead, everything we have about him was

723
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: his kids writing, his his orphans writing. His biographer was

724
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: someone who came up and was educated under him in

725
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: this school, and like a lot of the people who

726
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: carried on his work were people who were educated in

727
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: this system. Um. And the stuff we know about how

728
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: the school itself ran, we know because the kids ran

729
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: their own newspaper as part of the practical education about

730
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: the going on of the school and what was working

731
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: and what wasn't working about the educational system. Um, that's

732
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: pretty cool. So that's this is why I don't suspect, uh,

733
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: anything unforetold. So so his main pedagogical problem that he

734
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: is running into, which is basically the problem that faces

735
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: everyone teaching anyone anything. And I'm actually kind of curious

736
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: because your experienced with this as a teacher. It's basically like,

737
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: how do you teach other people to be free? Like,

738
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: how do you force other people to be like, no,

739
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: you're free now, whether you like it or not. You know, Yeah,

740
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: that's a reugh one, isn't. I think you just teach

741
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: people and hope that they realize that themselves. But yeah,

742
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: it's still a little different when you're running an orphanage,

743
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: Like I have not been in that position. I've worked

744
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: volunteering orphanage before. That's kind of cool. Yeah, transformative experience

745
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: for a little me. Yeah. I volunteered an orphanage for

746
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: children with autism in Romania when I was like a teenager.

747
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: And just try to ask you. They have this thing

748
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: about like increasing their productive capacity as a nation by

749
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: people having more children, and they reward child bearing, okay,

750
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: child having, and it's resulted in the culture in which

751
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: from what this is me going off what I was

752
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: told when of sixty years, I might be way off base,

753
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,919
Speaker 1: but they have a higher number of children who aren't

754
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: living with their families for whatever reason then would normally

755
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: be the case in the country of that size, and

756
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: especially children with things like autisms. Yeah, we're doing a

757
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: little volunteering there. When I was like a teenager was

758
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: one of my first like holy shit, like you know

759
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: experiences of what like life is like for people who

760
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: are not as fortunate as me. Yeah, that that makes

761
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,919
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. But you know what else makes

762
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 1: a lot of sense, James m is that buying things? Yeah,

763
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: we live in rewards you for no go ahead? Yeah, Well,

764
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: advertisers do you think abandoned their children to an institution

765
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: which may or may not harm those children. Well, I

766
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: think I like to think that as the these there's

767
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: advertisers believe in their products so much that they subject

768
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: their children to them. Okay, So so like if there

769
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: was a Triple A orphanage where Triple A would raise

770
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: your children as anarchist automobile people, they would they would

771
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: gladly let the children live and thrive there. Well, it's actually, um,

772
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: it's you were right about it's it's it's anarchist automobiles.

773
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: It's actually, um, it's a kind of a transformers thing. Um,

774
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: we we turn children into Now, I can't do that.

775
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: That's just not the direction I want to take this show.

776
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 1: That's how we get away from the fossil fuel economy.

777
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: There's only one way. Yeah, one child per wheel treadmill. Yeah. Uh, Well,

778
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: if you want to participate in the economy that you're

779
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: forced to participate in, you can do so by listening

780
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:52,479
Speaker 1: to these ads. We are back and we are talking

781
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: about Paul Robin and not how he did not turn

782
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: any of his children into automobiles. As far as I'm awares,

783
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: wasn't an island of Dr mur oh uh Ford, Dr

784
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: Ford Moreau Island. Thing. He did away with exams, this

785
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,479
Speaker 1: part I'm okay, no, I'm back tack telling the truth

786
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: instead of the bad joke. That didn't work. So he

787
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: did away with exams, and he didn't use discipline, and

788
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: he worked to have each student direct their own education.

789
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: He provided tools, and he tried to create a structure

790
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: by which students could learn. And the school taught folk dancing.

791
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: And they would spend like two months of the year

792
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: at the seaside doing like natural observations but also just

793
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: fucking hanging out at the water and ship. And this

794
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: is the part that feels creepy. He he's really into science, right,

795
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: So he he measured all of his pupils, their their growth,

796
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 1: every part of their body, the angles of their faces

797
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: they changed with growth, the kind the he would like,

798
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: like record their stool composition, like when they pooped, um wow,

799
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: living laboratory kind of ship. Again, I don't think that

800
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: I like I kind of looked into it. I tried

801
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: to find out a little bit because I'm like, every

802
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: time you hear about something that's like seems really cool.

803
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes it was like oh, and then there was like

804
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: rampant child abuse or something. I don't think that that

805
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: was happening. I think that this was like nineteen century

806
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: science guy being like, one day the world will need

807
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: to know whether this French kid's cheekbones were at this

808
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: angle at this age versus this other age where they

809
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: were at this other angle or whatever. I can see,

810
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: Like I don't have children, but like, I'm sure that

811
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: there's an anxiety of like is my kid normal? Like

812
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: every little thing about your child. Maybe if you could

813
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: just look in his book and be like, yeah, that

814
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: poop is within the standard deviation. That's true. Yeah, maybe

815
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 1: he wrote a book about like is your kid poop? Okay?

816
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: Kids poop okay? Yeah, wouldn't be the first, He might

817
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: be the first, he wouldn't be the last, and so okay. So,

818
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 1: and there are some rules within the thing, right, it's

819
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: a that no one's allowed to play soldiers because he

820
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: doesn't want to turn it into like a military is something.

821
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: No one's allowed to sing the national anthem. Oh yes,

822
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: And and there's no religious teachings for or against God.

823
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: God is just not to be discussed in school. That

824
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: is up to people's own fucking thing. That's great. Yeah, No, totally,

825
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: because like I think it probably be like not the

826
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: best to like have a school where you like and

827
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: this is why God is fake, you know, because yeah,

828
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: you're just gonna I know, so why introduce the idea

829
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: if if you if you don't believe it's rational or useful,

830
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 1: why waste time on it? Yeah, totally so long, Yeah, yeah,

831
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 1: I really like you know some of the some of

832
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 1: these folks are gonnak about this's kind of a spectrum

833
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: and how much they were trying to kind of indoctrinate

834
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 1: kids versus like just free minds and see what will happen,

835
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: you know. And I think he's more on the just

836
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: free minds and see what will happen. It seems like it.

837
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: And he's such a radical outlier that this he doesn't

838
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,919
Speaker 1: immediately influence other folks in France. This doesn't like cause

839
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: this like wave of like oh everyone be like this orphanage, right,

840
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: but edguc waters from countries all over the world come

841
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: and like study and like see what's up and like

842
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: kind of pay attention what's happening at this school, which

843
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: allows further influence a lot further down the line. Um

844
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,959
Speaker 1: and the church kept trying to shut him down, of course,

845
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: because I mean, after all, he did let boys and

846
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: girls swim together. Um, And they almost shut him down

847
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: in two because while he was in London he had

848
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: written a bunch of manuals about birth control and in

849
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: two the church or whoever fucking busy bodies like unearthed

850
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: them and they're like, a ha, we found it. He

851
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: wants people to be able to control whether or not

852
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: they have children, you know, terrible, terrible step. Yeah. But

853
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: the government actually kind of has us back a little

854
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: bit and they don't kick him out. There's this whole

855
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: campaign to get him kicked out until two years later

856
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: when a more centrist government comes into power. Uh, and

857
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: they start passing all these anti anarchist laws. And I'll

858
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: talk about the reasons why they're passing anti anarchist laws

859
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: seem a little bit less weird to the fascineras laws

860
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: in a little bit. This is why we have the

861
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 1: word libertarian, by the way, I mean, yeah, yeah, people,

862
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: because at the time there were specific laws that like

863
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: one of the censorship things was saying anarchist in the press, right,

864
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: like the word itself, it would have been centered or

865
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: would have been grounds for like having a publication shut

866
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: down or whatever. So they started to use the word libertarian,

867
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 1: which then came to the United States and got fucking hijacked.

868
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: And but yeah, there's like the initial use of libertarian

869
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: was by French anarchists and their late nineteenth century to

870
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,919
Speaker 1: avoid like stay control. Okay, which are these specific laws

871
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: and I'll talk about a little bit more. And one

872
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: of the other stories that is going to be on

873
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: this week's episode. You got this more centrist government and

874
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: they want to show that they're not radical leftists, you know,

875
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: So they caved to the church and his experiment and

876
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: popular education comes to an end. He's forced to retire.

877
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: He's given a pension. So it's like it's better than

878
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: it could have been. It's better than it's going to

879
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 1: be for some of the other people. And and actually

880
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: the school continues without him. I think that it's I

881
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: found I had a hard time finding out the history

882
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: after he left about whether his educational methods were continued.

883
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: I believe that the school was continued by two of

884
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: his pupils, um, but I don't know how long. This

885
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: is actually one of the thing that really bothers me

886
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: and I play into it a little bit that I'm

887
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: like telling you the biography about this great guy, right. Um.

888
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: But the reason that we don't fucking know more about

889
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: goddamn orphanage is because people only care about it because

890
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: of Paul Robin, whereas like I care about it. I mean,

891
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: Paul Robin's great, but like I want to know what

892
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 1: happened to the orphanage. I want to know what happened

893
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: to the kids, you know, but I don't know. It

894
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: seemed to have continued at least for a little while,

895
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: and he's forced to resign. Um. Someone at the time

896
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: put it in a in a journal in the US.

897
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: Someone put it he was fired because he refused to

898
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: teach the orphans that France is bigger than the world

899
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: or that God is bigger than man. So of course

900
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: he retired instead. Go ahead, Yeah, this is just like

901
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: a really love that nation. Yeah totally city. Yeah, especially

902
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: the first part, Like that's what it hasn't been taught enough,

903
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: so he just stopped being cool forevermore. Um, just kidding,

904
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: he uh. He spent the rest of his life teaching

905
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: birth control because he believes that a poor woman's right

906
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: to family planning was the key to their emancipation. Both

907
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 1: as women and a class because he's a fucking cool guy. Yeah.

908
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: Not all of his peers were his based as him,

909
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: and they would like complain that he had abandoned quote

910
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: the revolution in order to pursue raising orphans to think

911
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: for themselves and providing women the means by wish to

912
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: control their bodies and lives. Right the funk them, that's

913
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: not what the revolution is. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's

914
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,879
Speaker 1: seventy five years old. It's and it's a really good

915
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,360
Speaker 1: run for back in the days of turriculosis, and he's like,

916
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm on my way out. So he

917
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 1: poisoned himself and because he was up no a positivist, scientist,

918
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: weirdo at heart, he recorded all of the effects of

919
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: the poison on himself as he died in case they

920
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,959
Speaker 1: were of any use to anyone later. Yeah, he's really

921
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: in it to win it. Believes into what he's saying. Yeah,

922
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: he puts his kids into the orphanage. He fucking records

923
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: his own death. Um. Yeah, so he's just like noting, right,

924
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: he's like like choking away and yeah, yeah, like thirty

925
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: second spasm high. Yeah, you have the writing just gets Yeah,

926
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: like that money yeah, yeah, uh so the guy I know.

927
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: And there's there's one more for today. I'm gonna give

928
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: you one more because he leaves a legacy. The French

929
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: state makes him forced them to put down the torch,

930
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: but others pick it up. And before I talk about

931
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 1: who picked up the torch, I got to talk about

932
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: the anarchist outrages that were fueling the repression that got

933
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: Paul Robin fired, which means I've got to talk about

934
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: some bombers. They're not my favorite thing about, Like I'm

935
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: not super into the anarchist bomber thing. It's not my

936
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: favorite part of anarchy. But what the movement was up

937
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: to in eight nineties, friends, was was bombing people. And

938
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: I want to talk about one of the more interesting ones, Rabbitshal,

939
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: And he was this guy, Rabbitshal. He was he was

940
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: born super down and out and he stayed that way

941
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. His dad fucked off when

942
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: he was eight, so he was left to support his mother,

943
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: his sister, his brother, and his nephew as this like

944
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, sucking eight year old, right, And so

945
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: he did what he did for the rest of his

946
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: entire life. He worked odd jobs he played accordion on

947
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: the UM. I think actually at Parlors he played accordion

948
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: and he and he robbed graves. Wow. Okay, yeah, so

949
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 1: its very French to him. Yeah yeah, so I'm like,

950
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: now he's just a French go yeah yeah, yeah, you

951
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: see amazing, Like I'm extremely poor. He to support my fan, nail,

952
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: pick up my accordion and bootstrap myself. Yeah totally. Um.

953
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: And then if if that doesn't work, I'll go find

954
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: someone else's who got buried with their accordion and get

955
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: that one. Yeah. I do like that. Why not rub grades?

956
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: They don't need that stuff? Yeah, similar crime. Yeah he

957
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: heard it here first. Yeah, that's our next plug. Actually

958
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 1: hired down, down and out needs some money, you know

959
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: who doesn't need it anymore? The dead um set entire families.

960
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: It might not affect anyone's religious practice. Okay, there's downside. Okay,

961
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: so the queen's been buried recently, just you could just

962
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 1: go in u Yeah. I think actually if you turn

963
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,320
Speaker 1: in the queen's body, um, you get all of her money. Okay,

964
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: it's like a bounty bounty situation. Yeah, wanted dead or

965
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 1: life where it's a weekend at Bernie's okay, okay, right right, Yeah,

966
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: I am the queen. You gotta do it in the

967
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: Crass plays Hello, Hello, Hello, and then you get all

968
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: of her realm as well. You get to control a

969
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: large part of the world. Yeah, that's true. Sophie is

970
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: really excited about this bit, and it's like really excited

971
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: that Margaret has gone down the path of strange bits

972
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: about No, I just appreciate it that you did an accent.

973
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: You'd never do that for that joy. I can only

974
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 1: do it when I'm imitating Crass. She was saving her

975
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: queen beet for so long and now the opportunity has

976
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: gone and she's mad, you know. Um okay. So Ravishal

977
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: he he takes his mother's maiden name, Ravishal because his

978
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: dad sucked and then he went through his life with

979
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: only one name, which is objectively cool, m like Sodna,

980
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. He starts hanging out with the anarchists and

981
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: they're fighting for the eight at our work day. Uh.

982
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: And at one point, and this is the thing that's

983
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,959
Speaker 1: like worth noting about these like, oh, the anarchist started

984
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: throwing bombs at ship and it's like, well, because they

985
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,560
Speaker 1: were labor organizing and then they all kept getting murdered.

986
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: So they're like having an eight hour workday protest when

987
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: the cops are like, well, what if we killed nine

988
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: of you today, right, and so and then put three

989
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: people on trial. And so while these people are on trial,

990
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: rabbish All he steals dynamite from a quarry and he

991
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 1: bombs all the government people responsible for putting these three

992
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: people on trial. And I'm not I'm not telling him

993
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: he's wrong. And so he tells an informant by accident, right,

994
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: and he's like bragging about at a bar and he

995
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: gets put on trial. Uh, the informants house gets bombed

996
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: by someone else, and Rabbishal he gets the death penalty.

997
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 1: He sings on the way to the guillotine. What does

998
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: he saying? Fucking I wrote it down, but I don't

999
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: remember it. It was like something, Yeah, they should have

1000
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 1: given him his accordion. He could have gone down absolutely.

1001
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: I know. I think he's sang one of the songs.

1002
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 1: Oh he was one of the songs of the guillotine

1003
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: from the French Revolution. Oh yeah, what a hero. Um yeah.

1004
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: And so I don't know. He has his hardest, fun

1005
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: shitty life and he fought against it. He died at

1006
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: thirty two years old. More people bomb other ship and revenge,

1007
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: and it creates this cycle where everyone's bombing things and

1008
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: then in revenge, and then they get executed, and other

1009
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: people are bombing more things in revenge, and all these

1010
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: anti anarchist laws get put into place. So once the

1011
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: anti anarchist laws get put into place, a poor twenty

1012
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: year old baker named Cesario stabs the president to death

1013
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: in public, and they offer him a plea deal if

1014
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 1: he snitches, and he says Cesario as a baker, never

1015
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 1: an informer, I know, And as he gets guillotined, he

1016
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: shouts out, courage cousins, long live anarchy, A go ahead,

1017
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: these people. I do love that. I know what happened.

1018
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 1: It is time beard where people just really fully inhabited

1019
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: the bit right to the bitter rain. But yeah, it's

1020
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: very inspiration. So France, this is this is the kind

1021
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: of stuff that's happening that gets Paul Robin kicked out right.

1022
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: So France is like, all right, anarchists aren't allowed to

1023
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: associate with each other anymore. That's done. No more free association,

1024
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: not for anarchists. And so yet you get something called

1025
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: the Trial of the thirty, which, um, can you guess

1026
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: what the Trial of the thirty was? Was it some

1027
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 1: kind of indurance event, maybe that they all had to

1028
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: compete for thirty hours or something for Margaret to deliver

1029
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: this please please please afform me. Yeah, yeah, no, it's

1030
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 1: it's a it's a trial of thirty people. Oh that's

1031
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: extremely disappointing, very literal name. Wow. Yeah, that's what a

1032
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: what a shame? I know. So thirty alleged anarchists are

1033
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: put on trial for criminal association and it was completely

1034
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 1: bullshit trial because at that point in anarchist France, the

1035
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: anarchists weren't actually very very well organized, which was part

1036
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: of why they were resorting to bombing and stabbing and stuff,

1037
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: because they hadn't really recovered yet from the repression that

1038
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: they faced during the Paris Commune, that the whole left

1039
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: face during the Paris Community and they were just trying

1040
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: to funk up the world. That's fucking everyone over. A

1041
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: lot of them were. There's another half to the anarchist

1042
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: movement in France at the time, which is that they

1043
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: were just hanging out and writing literature and poetry and

1044
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: ship because the art scene in Paris, was hella anarchist?

1045
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 1: It's like the punk scene of the nineteen nineties right

1046
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: where you're just like, if you're a punk, you're probably

1047
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: an anarchist. If you're a literary cool person in eighteen

1048
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: nineties Paris, you're probably an anarchist. It's just the culture

1049
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: at the time. And so the people on trial are

1050
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,760
Speaker 1: like authors and art directors and ship So thirty alleged

1051
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: anarchists are put on trial. One of them is an

1052
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: art critic named Felix Phinnen or Finian, the guy who

1053
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 1: coined the term neo impressionism, and he has a really

1054
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: fun bit in court. They asked him, um, are you

1055
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: an anarchist? Mr? Fenian? I am a Burgundian born in Turin.

1056
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: Your police file extends to one seventy pages. It is

1057
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 1: documented that you were intimate with the German terrorist Komphmire.

1058
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 1: The intimacy cannot have been great as I do not

1059
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: speak German and he does not speak French. And then

1060
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: the whole courtroom laughs at the prosecutor. It has been

1061
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: established that you surrounded yourself with Kohen and Ortez. One

1062
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: can hardly be surrounded by two persons. You need at

1063
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: least three. And then they say, you are seeing conference

1064
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: behind with them behind a lamp post. A lamp post

1065
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: is round, Can your honor tell me where behind a

1066
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: lamp post is? And I know at the court fails

1067
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: to prove any link between them because there wasn't one, right,

1068
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: they don't even speak the same language as each other.

1069
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: And they all get released, Almost all of them get released.

1070
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: Some of them actually get put in jail for conspiracy ship,

1071
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,080
Speaker 1: but most of them get released. And what is all

1072
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: this have to do with education? You ask? You should ask,

1073
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: what does all this have to do with education? Margaret? Well,

1074
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm glad you asked. One of these guys. His name

1075
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: is Sebastian for A, And in nineteen o four he

1076
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: picked up Paul Robbin's torch. He'd also been raised by Catholics, uh,

1077
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: and he was actually going to become a priest until

1078
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: he was forced to support his family, which he didn't

1079
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: do by accordioning and grave robbing. Um. And he's soon

1080
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 1: I don't actually remember what he did, but it wasn't that.

1081
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: I think he was middle class. He soon wound up

1082
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: an anarchist and his wife was like, oh funk this.

1083
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: I'm not dating you anymore. I was like a conservative Catholic.

1084
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: So he strikes out on his own and he works

1085
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: as an author and a speaker. Oh that's what he did, right,

1086
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: And he works tirelessly on the Dreyfus support campaign defending

1087
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: this guy, Alfred Dreyfus, alongside all of the decent human

1088
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 1: beings in France, including most all of the left. The

1089
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: super cliff notes version for anyone who dress affair, I

1090
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: feel like the Dreyfus affair. When I first heard, I

1091
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: was like, isn't this some movie from the nineties. I

1092
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: don't remember it right, Yeah, it could be a punk band, Yeah, totally.

1093
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 1: What happened was this guy named Alfred Dreyfus, and he

1094
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: was a French soldier. He was a captain, and he

1095
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: was falsely accused of treason and it he was accused

1096
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: for treason because he was Jewish. That's like pretty much

1097
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: all there was, like some treason happened and it wasn't

1098
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: him and there was no evidence, but he was Jewish.

1099
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: So he spent like twelve years trying to get exonerated.

1100
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: It became this huge international support campaign um, and he

1101
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: was like the people who were against him, they were

1102
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: pretty clear about their anti Semitism. They ran organizations with

1103
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: titles like the Anti Semitic League of France. So so

1104
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: I know, so for a along he's part of the

1105
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: Dreyfus campaign, and eventually he at leases a fifty ish

1106
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: acre farm outside of Paris, and he establishes a school

1107
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: in Commune called LaRouche or the Hive, which is a

1108
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: creepy name for anything. But they raised bees and sold

1109
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: them through a workers collective to fund the whole thing,

1110
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: so I will forgive them for taking away creepy name.

1111
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: The rest of the money came from Sebastian himself, from

1112
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: his income from lectures and books, and which I think

1113
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: is just like a cool way to be, like, I

1114
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: don't know, if you're like making your living as a

1115
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: lecturer and author used that to support support schools. Yeah,

1116
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 1: that's great. Would a pivot we could have made? A

1117
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: priest could have lost the soul I know, I know,

1118
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: and then he could have been a prisoner because he

1119
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: was in the trial of the third Um. And so

1120
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,439
Speaker 1: they started school. Educational materials and equipment come from Paul

1121
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,160
Speaker 1: Robbins previous school, which makes me think that maybe it

1122
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: was closed eventually I'm not entirely sure or whether Paul

1123
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: Robin was like, oh, you can have some of the stuff, right,

1124
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: I don't totally know. At the Hive there's a farmhouse

1125
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: and orchard, woods and meadows and a farmland, and the

1126
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: whole thing has this like yeah it is this a

1127
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: narco pacifist vibe. And the government at first is like,

1128
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 1: all right, well, we're not gonna sunk with you, because

1129
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: thank god we have some past this anarchists. After like

1130
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, like one of them, it just like knife

1131
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: their main guy. Um. They became less excited about paspists

1132
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 1: once World War One kicked off. Let me tell you, yes,

1133
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: the Hive lasted for thirteen years until nineteen seventeen when

1134
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 1: for As personal finances suffered and he couldn't afford it anymore. Basically,

1135
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: the World War One fucked it all up, and the

1136
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: whole thing was run as a Soviet which means commune,

1137
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:30,919
Speaker 1: not part of the Soviet Union, and decisions were made

1138
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: at a weekly general assembly by the staff and by

1139
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: the older students, which I believe included anyone over the

1140
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,919
Speaker 1: age of thirteen. Amazing, Yeah, this place, it's very cool.

1141
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:44,479
Speaker 1: This is actually the most excited I've ever been about

1142
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 1: like whenever I read these things about like and then

1143
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: all these radicals had their like back to little land

1144
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: thing where they got like fifty acres in the meadow

1145
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: and they like sold whatever, honey, I'm like, and then

1146
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: it all ended horrible and some poly drama and someone

1147
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 1: probably stabbed someone, like you know, it's like, like, I

1148
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: think that sticking her heads in the sand is like

1149
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: usually a really bad thing, right, And I think that

1150
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: the thing that really excites me about this is that

1151
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: they didn't in Instead, they were like, we are a

1152
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: project that is part of the larger world that makes

1153
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: use of this idyllic landscape. Right. Um, I I haven't

1154
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: found anything negative about this is like the most like

1155
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 1: just pure positive. Like this place was just cool as

1156
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: far as I can tell, it seems really cool. And

1157
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 1: the teachers and the staff were volunteer. They were given

1158
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: food and lodgings and of course an equal voice in

1159
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,959
Speaker 1: how things were run, right, and they could use money

1160
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: from the communal pool for anything that they needed and

1161
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: they didn't need to justify their expenses. Um. And by

1162
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: all accounts, no one took advantage of that system and

1163
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: abused it. There were about fifty students at any given

1164
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 1: point aged five to sixteen. It was really competitive to

1165
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 1: get in, and the only favoritism was shown was towards

1166
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: the kids of all these executed anarchists. So like, if

1167
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,280
Speaker 1: you get executed by the state, at least your kids

1168
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 1: get a free education at the Hive, and tuition was

1169
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: pay what you can, without any emphasis in selection based

1170
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: on who had money. The school aggressively it did not

1171
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:10,439
Speaker 1: teach anarchy. It taught autonomy. It taught students. It taught

1172
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: them what they wanted to learn, and really intentionally avoided

1173
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 1: indoctrination into anarchism. And it was an integrated education like

1174
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: Paul Robbins Orphanage, and that practical skills and the heavier

1175
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 1: subjects were both emphasized. Students started an apprenticeship at thirteen

1176
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 1: and whatever skill they wanted. UM. Basically, up until your

1177
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: ten you do whatever you want and no one's allowed

1178
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: to tell you what you have to learn. UM. From

1179
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: ten to thirteen or maybe ten to twelve, you like

1180
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: get the basics of a ton of different fields. And

1181
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: then at thirteen you pick an apprenticeship and you start

1182
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 1: doing labor for the farm as that apprenticeship, and you

1183
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: get a wage for the things that you make that

1184
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 1: gets sold by the cooperative. So I think the only

1185
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: people who got paid by this school were the students.

1186
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: UM and everyone is encouraged. Everything boys and girls taught

1187
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: were taught together their sex education. There's no punishments, there's

1188
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: no rewards, but the reward of learning. UM students travel internationally,

1189
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: like their field trips are like, let's go to fucking

1190
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: Russia or whatever. Switzerland is the only one I know

1191
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: off the top of my head, but UM and international

1192
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: visitors come to see the place, and I don't know,

1193
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: and it I keep reading, I'm like waiting, I'm like,

1194
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: and when did it go off the rails? When did

1195
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: it go off the rails? It's it just it ran

1196
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: out of money because of World War One, which like

1197
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: almost nothing fucking survived World War One. Lots of people

1198
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 1: did not survive World War One. Some countries didn't properly

1199
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: survive ward. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And this is not the

1200
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: most famous torch bearer of Paul Robbins's work. When we

1201
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: come back on Wednesday, we'll talk about Francisco Fare, the

1202
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: Martyr of popular education. I'm excited to learn more. It

1203
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,439
Speaker 1: was pretty fun these people are really Yeah, it's so nice.

1204
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: It's so nice not to do one while you're like

1205
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 1: and then he turned into a massive piece of ship

1206
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: and started doing some horror. Yeah, it's like a cleanse. Yeah,

1207
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: it's nice. James, do you have anything you'd like to

1208
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 1: plug at the end here you should listen to our

1209
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: other podcasts where we don't always talk about such happy

1210
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 1: and wonderful stuff, which is it could happen here. Um,

1211
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: if you wanna hear my opinions on stuff here about

1212
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: the shock. I just thought you can follow me on Twitter.

1213
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: It's at James Dout, which is my name. Um. I

1214
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: have a book about the popular Olympics. It's linked to

1215
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,560
Speaker 1: my Twitter bio. It's very expensive. If you aren't able

1216
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: to access that, then let me know. My d ms

1217
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 1: are open. I think that's all awesome, Margaret. And you

1218
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: have a book that people can purchase, correct, I do.

1219
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: I have a book called we Won't Be Here Tomorrow,

1220
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: and it is available wherever you get your books, including

1221
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 1: such cooperative bookstores as Firestorm Books in Asheville, North Carolina,

1222
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: or Red Emma's in Baltimore, Maryland. Is published by the

1223
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: collectively run publisher A. K. Press. Um. Is that count

1224
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: as an accent if I just put on an affectation?

1225
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: I like it it. Yeah, it's authorial, it's very um. Well,

1226
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: I have been on book tour, so I have been

1227
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: talking about and you can actually catch me on book tour,

1228
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,960
Speaker 1: which will be happening while you're listening if you're anywhere

1229
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: in the South and mid Atlantic and a tiny bit

1230
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: of the Midwest, but by that I really mean Cleveland.

1231
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,600
Speaker 1: And then you can catch me on tour talking about

1232
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 1: none of this stuff and instead reading new stories about

1233
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 1: people who pretend to be orcs or teenage lesbians in

1234
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: love with satanic death cults. Yeah, it's a queen and

1235
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: any of them. Will you do your Will you do

1236
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: your queen voice? Uh? I used to have a crass

1237
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: cover band called Best Before four, which was like my

1238
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: like steampunk crass band. And I can play big, a

1239
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: little a on accordion, and that is how I will

1240
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: do a queen song a queen voice. Okay, let's go

1241
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: to those shows. Demand that. Yeah, probably, And we'll be

1242
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: back on Wednesday with the part two. He Cool People

1243
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1244
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website

1245
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on

1246
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1247
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.