1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: I'm Anny Reese and I'm lare In Vogelbam, and today 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: we have an episode for you about sardines. And it 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: is a vast one, yes, vast and multitudinous, like a 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: school of sardines. Indeed. Uh, any particular reason this one 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: was on your mind? Uh? Well, I was. I was 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: thinking about types of topics that we hadn't done in 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: a second, and I was like, can we do weird seafood? 9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: And then I was like, we're in charge of this, 10 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: we can do whatever we want. And uh. Then I 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: was thinking about like like fish that are good and 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: fresh in the summer, and I my brain was just 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: like sardines. Uh. And I started looking into it and 14 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, there's there's like a lot here, 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: there is, and and that's what we were discussing before 16 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: we started to record, as I thought, okay, yeah, sardines, okay, 17 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: But I didn't think there would be that much on 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: them search wise and at all. Really, And I was 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: wrong that incorrect? Oh was like proven incorrect? Oh yeah 20 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 1: we could um. As it turns out, the word sardines 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: covers a lot of territory, and we could talk about 22 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: specific uh types of sardines or specific areas of catching 23 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 1: of sardines um in a number of different episodes. Yes, Yes, 24 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: because I I tried to go down like, I know 25 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: they're big in Norway. Let me look into that. I 26 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: know they're big here and here and here, and I 27 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: think just the search terms weren't providing what I needed. 28 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: But also I suspect whole other episode. Yeah, but we 29 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: are going to mention one of those. I just I 30 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: just feel like there's uncovered history that I missed. Oh 31 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: I hate that. Okay, Well that's that's all right. You 32 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: know we can we can give an overview today and 33 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: then we can specify in later episodes. Yes, and your 34 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: listeners are great at at pointing out, pointing as in 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: the right direction, So we are counting on you. Um, 36 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: I don't have too many I don't have too much 37 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: experience with sardines. I don't think the first thing I thought, 38 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: because I'm a child is SpongeBob, because there's sort of 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: a running joke and SpongeBob. But I did recently purchase 40 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: some even before this, for some filling for on a 41 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: geary in my ongoing question. So I guess I can 42 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: report back. I'm very excited, very excited. Yeah, yeah, I 43 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: I also do not have a great deal of sardine experience. 44 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: I think mostly as a like a like a tapas 45 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: or as a kind of kind of plate um in 46 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: various like tomato based preparations. And I've always quite enjoyed 47 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: them like that. Yeah, but yeah, I oh, I need 48 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: I would like more experienced now, please. I would like 49 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: to go to the Mediterranean and eat a large number 50 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: of grilled sardines different different times right off to me. 51 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 1: I have had them fried once and they were very good. 52 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: Oh I bet no, okay, alright, yep. You can see 53 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: our anchovy episode for some similar information. Tuna is pretty 54 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: involved in this um and canning sure. Yeah. Also right, 55 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: other other marine fishery episodes, UM, big Big Fish Industry, UM, 56 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: one of our episodes. Uh, cod always great. M I 57 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: haven't shown you this more. And but as we've mentioned, 58 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: we recently moved out of our office and I found 59 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: the poster we got with the different types of fish. 60 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah that Brooks gave us from that Hawaii episode. Uh, 61 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: and I it's right at my feet. I'll show you 62 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: after I remember that's a good poster. It is. That's 63 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: why I was saying, I can't leave this. I don't 64 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: know where I put it in my apartment. But even 65 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: though right it's a large it's like it's like as 66 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: large as either of us. And we proceeded to bring 67 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: it like to Maui and then back to Oahu and 68 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: get back to the you know, continental United States. It 69 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: was a process, it was. It made it on many flights. 70 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 1: Not a worthwhile poster indeed, indeed, well, Um, in the meantime, 71 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: before I show you this glorious poster again, Lauren, I 72 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: guess that breaks us to our question. Mhm, sardines, what 73 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: are they? Well, m okay As as we've said, the 74 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: words sardine can technically refer to a number of similar fish, 75 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: depending on who's defining it. Um, But what you're generally 76 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: looking at is a small oily fish that lives in 77 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: these huge schools in the pelagic zone of the ocean, 78 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: like off the shore, but not like down in the deeps. Yeah. Um. 79 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: And in addition to being eaten fresh cooked, are frequently 80 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: preserved by being pickled, smoked, salt cured, and or canned. Uh. 81 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 1: They're small enough that they are often eaten with the 82 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: bones and skin still attached, because they're like a little 83 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: bit chewy but not inedible that way. Um. They are 84 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: fairly dense, fleshed, and kind of strong in flavor, like 85 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: a savory and earthy or what do you call it 86 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: oceany at that point. Umh and like fishy, yeah, which 87 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: I guess makes sense for fish, but not all fish 88 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: are fishy. Um. But yeah, they're like, um, they're like 89 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: a little pocket fish or like they're like you've crammed 90 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: an entire hamachi into like a six inch package. Um, 91 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: They're they're fun sized, make them sound so cute. I 92 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: was looking at pictures and I was literally talking to 93 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: my screen like, oh, you look at the little buddy, 94 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: like you know, guy, I do again. I keep an 95 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: aquarium at home. I have fish in this aquarium. Now, um, 96 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: some corridoras, which are also very cute, and so I 97 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: just I just really appreciate fish anyway. Uh uh huh. Yeah. 98 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: They are members of the clupeidi or herring family. Uh. 99 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: Ecologically and commercially, they are similar enough to herring and 100 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: anchovies that the three groups are often grouped together for 101 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: like reporting larger trends and in some cases there have 102 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: been disagreement over what should be called a herring versus 103 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: a sardine versus a pill shard, which is also intertwined here. Um, 104 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: that's above my head. I wouldn't dare at any rate. Yes, 105 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: a national laws do dictate what maybe classified as a sardine, 106 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: and the term gets applied to at least twenty recognized 107 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: species across at least five genuses. Mhm mh. Problem here 108 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: it certainly is uh so right. I cannot like precisely 109 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: describe what a sardine looks like because it varies, but 110 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: in general you are looking at a fish that will 111 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: grow to about five to fifteen inches long, that's about 112 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: fifteen with a fairly tiny ray type fins, that is, 113 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: spined fins, their silvery and color, often with some blue 114 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: or green along their backs, and U shaped like like 115 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: sleek little submarines like a long pointed ovals. Yeah. Uh 116 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: and this is a safety in numbers kind of fish 117 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: relatively low on the food chain, like they eat plankton 118 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: and other microorganisms. Um. And they are a type of 119 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: forage fish so called because I think because a number 120 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: of larger fish and birds and marine mammals just sort 121 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: of go up to a school and like pick off 122 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: little clumps of them, the way that a cow forage 123 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: is on grass. That's what I'm assuming, yeah, nature, or 124 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: maybe because they forage on the plankton. I'm not sure. 125 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: I should have looked it up, but I didn't. Now Here, 126 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: we are here, we are here, we are onwards at 127 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: any rate, I'm oversimplifying. Um, this this ecological system, Um, 128 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: it's a lot more complicated than that, and in really 129 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: cool ways. UM. Schools of sardines will spawn tens or 130 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of eggs a year and often migrate 131 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: throughout the year, and they move in these big, beautiful, 132 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: shimmery masses that actually make them invisible from certain angles 133 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: because their silvery sides scatter the sun that's filtering down 134 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: from above in these little patterns that just look like 135 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 1: a mirage. Um. They are fairly easy to catch, though, um, 136 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: and without a lot of eyecatch in most situations, because 137 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: you're just kind of like find a shoal and then 138 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: scoop some up with like an appropriately sized net, and 139 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: then you have a bunch of sardines. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 140 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: I mean I love the mirage aspect that's really cool, 141 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: but then they like, yeah, sardines straight move and they 142 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: are eaten fresh in places where they're caught, grilled or 143 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: steamed or baked into pies or however people consume fish 144 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: because they're small, they are often like a snack or 145 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: appetizer or or bar food sort of deal, like I 146 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: was saying, yeah um. They're also quite often preserved right 147 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: as oaked, salt, cured, pickled, and or packed in oil 148 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: or water, or tomato sauce and canned, which brings out 149 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: a sort of chewy or like toothsome quality in the 150 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: flesh and like concentrates the flavor a little bit. They 151 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: are frequently prepared skin on and bones in which adds 152 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: texture and often gives you this like this like burst 153 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: of flavor when you bite through the skin. Oh it's 154 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: so nice, and I'm I'm so mad that I'm not 155 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: on a trip to a fishing coast right now, right 156 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: gosh ha um. They are also processed in a number 157 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: of other ways, dried or meld and flaked or pressed 158 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: for oil. Sardine meal is also used as an animal feed, 159 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: and the oil is also used in industrial applications like 160 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: like paint and surfacing like linoleum mm hmm, yeah, so interesting. 161 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: Well what about the nutrition, Yeah, speaking not about linolium anymore. 162 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: Um Uh. It depends on how you prepare them, of course, 163 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: but sardines are high in protein and low in carbs, 164 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 1: with some good fats and a bunch of vitamins and minerals. 165 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: The bones and skin are particular boosters here. Uh. If 166 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: you're getting them canned, I'd say look for types that 167 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: are packed in water or tomato instead of in oil, 168 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: because oil is going to really condense your calorie content there. 169 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: But yeah, pretty good for you. And because they are 170 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: low on the food chain, they are lower in mercury 171 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: than bigger fish, though they are still susceptible to other 172 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: oceanic toxins like microplastics and pesticides. So I don't know. Yes, 173 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: do your research. Yeah, if it had died, don't. It's 174 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: very complicated, it is. Well, okay, we do have some 175 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: numbers for you. We do as often. The larger forage 176 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: species group of herring and anchovies and sardines made up 177 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: over eight percent of global marine fishing production. Um. That 178 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: was about fifteen point three million tons of fish, and 179 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: that's like way down from what it's been previously. Earlier 180 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: in the two thousands, it was as much as like 181 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: thirty of global marine fishing production. Wow, like like either way, 182 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: a really major part of the fishing industry. Just one 183 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: genus of sardines, Um Sardanella, caught in tropical and subtropical regions, 184 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: was the fourth largest contributor to global marine fishing production 185 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: as of Dang. Lots of sardines, Lots of sardines, low 186 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: price canned sardines from Morocco, Poland and Thailand to make 187 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: up a big part of that market. Um, but a 188 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of sources I found kind of 189 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: separated out because in places like France they are viewed 190 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: as more of a luxury item. M Um. So there's that. 191 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: Some people collect vintage sardine cans and you can go 192 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: find places or like marketplaces and stuff. It's pretty cool. 193 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: If anyone does this, you have to write in you 194 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: do you do? Yes? Um. There's a Main Coast Sardine 195 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: History Museum in Jonesport, Maine, and I looked it up 196 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: and checked it's still open and it looks super cute. 197 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: It looks within the best way, like a shack on 198 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: side of the road. Um, and this is from like 199 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: a picture. It was on their website, but from one picture. 200 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: So I don't know. But if anyone's been there places, yeah, yes, 201 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: there's also a canning a canning museum in Norway that's 202 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: not specifically about sardines, but it has a lot to 203 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: do with sardines. So if you've been there, let us know. 204 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: Oh and here's another thing, listeners, I've got to know more. Okay. 205 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: So in some parts of the world, sardines are quite beloved. Uh. 206 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: In Lisbon, for instance, the Lisbon sardine is viewed as 207 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: the city's unofficial official fish. They are featured in art 208 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: and are a common souvenir for tourists. During the Festival 209 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: of St. Anthony in June, festivalgoers can sample fresh grilled sardines. Apparently, 210 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: like hundreds of people are just grilling them and you 211 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: can sample them. Um. And also apparently, the story goes 212 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: that Saint Anthony encountered trouble converting people, so he decided 213 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: to practice his sermons on sardines and they listened. So 214 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: Saint Anthony was like, okay, I'm good. His confidence was Listeners, 215 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: you've got to write in about this powered by the sardines. 216 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: Empowered by the sardines. I also read it's a big 217 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: day for weddings. Yeah, I think weddings. Um, so again, 218 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: provide more information please. June is sardine season in Portugal, 219 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: so it is the best time to find fresh shardin's there. 220 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: And yes, I desperately desperately want to dry grilled sardines 221 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: a right, one day, Lauren, One day, okay, okay, but 222 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: not today this day. We must talk about history, yes, 223 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: and we are going to get into that as soon 224 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: as we get back from a quick break for a 225 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: word from our sponsors, and we're back, thanky sponsor, Yes, 226 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: thank you. So normally through a whole history of the 227 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: fish in question, but the fish in question when it 228 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: comes to sardines, yes, could refer to a handful of things. 229 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: And that is an issue that, as we mentioned, continues 230 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: to cause problems to this day. And we're going to 231 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: get into that even more in this history bit like 232 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: like legal disputes, uh huh. And on top of that, 233 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: all of these types of fish that are sometimes called sardines, uh, 234 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: their history split off in a way that gave me 235 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: a headache. Um I made this a twelve part series. 236 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: But I think it's safe to say that they're old. Yes. Um. 237 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: The Herring family in general dates back, has been biologically 238 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: about what where they are for for about sixty million 239 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: years or so. So old ye so so yeah. Uh. 240 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: We do know ancient Romans discovered healthy populations of sardines 241 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: along the coast, and that they enjoyed them so much 242 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: they became something of a staple for a time. The 243 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: word sardine in this context first appeared in the fifteenth 244 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: century in English. In English, and a lot of people 245 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: think it's because of a lot of sardines came from Sardinia, 246 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: but that's never actually been yeah, mm hmm. The phrase 247 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: packed like sardines first appeared in eight And I've never 248 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: heard of this game, but apparently there's a game, um 249 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: called packed like sardines. I think it was first recorded 250 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: in Yeah, or to sardines. I think I something is 251 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: is digging a bell way in the back of my 252 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: like like Ohio, Pennsylvania upbringing um. But it's it's just 253 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: it's just a bell and the bell is marked move. 254 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: So I read it and it doesn't make sense to 255 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: me from what I read. It's kid had one person hides, 256 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: and then whoever finds the first gets next to them, 257 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: and then so on and so forth. The last kid 258 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: is the first one to hide the next time. Yes, 259 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: that's totally it, and that's why it's called sardines because yeah, 260 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: it's a it's a variation on hiding go seek. That's 261 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: totally it, oh man, Yeah, right, where it's clarified, right, 262 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: totally yeah. And so like, so like if you're the 263 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: first kid hiding, like it behooves you to find a 264 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: place that like a lot of people could pack into, 265 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,479 Speaker 1: but it is still you know, hidden, which is like 266 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: a difficult a difficult ask. Okay, Okay, that's since because 267 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: otherwise because like like the point of the game is 268 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: to like is to like be hidden for as long 269 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: as possible. And you know, but if like kids start 270 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: like like sticking out in various ways, that you're gonna 271 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: get found easier. Okay, that makes sense because to me 272 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: it sounded like you wanted to be found as quickly 273 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: as possible. Just hide in the open. No no, no no, no, no, 274 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: opposite opposite, got it? Okay? All right, Um, over, now 275 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: that we've solved that mystery, over on the eastern coastline 276 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: of North America the sardine fishing question. The Atlantic herring 277 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: has long been fished by indigenous people bolls in the 278 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: area using poles and nets. After the Europeans arrived, this 279 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: eventually gave way to boats called sardine hallers and then 280 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: purse signing, and that's we've talked about that before. But 281 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: fishing with purse like nets that could also be its 282 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: own episode, so that's very condensed. But oh yeah. With 283 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: the invention of canning in the early eighteen hundreds, Europeans 284 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: with access to water quickly started canning fish, including the 285 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: sardine trans first pack sardines in non France in eighteen 286 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: thirty four. When France's sardine canning industry suffered during the 287 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: eighteenth century, they turned to Portugal, and by nineteen twelve 288 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: that country was the largest global exporter of canned fish. 289 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: Four hundred cannaries were operating across Portugal during their peak. 290 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: In Britain had a large fish canning industry during this 291 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: time too, as did Norway. I know listeners from those 292 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: places are probably like, how dare you put us in 293 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: one sentence? I'm telling you future episodes. It was too 294 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: much speaking of future episodes. According to some sources, I 295 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: found French colonialism made sardines popular in what is now Malaysia, 296 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: particularly a brand of sardines in tomato sauce called I 297 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: AM Brand that got started by a French colonist in 298 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,479 Speaker 1: Malaysia named Alfred Kluette Um and he decided to focus 299 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: on canning and preserving. He had a whole other thing 300 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: going on, but he turned. He turned to this um 301 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: and he included sardines in that which were seasonally abundant 302 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: in Malaysia. He started canning them in eight In the beginning, 303 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: these cans symbolized colonialism and status, in part because they 304 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: were hard to find and somewhat expensive to manufacture. It 305 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: was also a way for European colonists to separate themselves 306 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,719 Speaker 1: from the local food in the country they were occupying, 307 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: food they often viewed as on sanitary and very heavy 308 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: quotes yes Um. A similar story with canned sartines has 309 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: taken place in a handful of Asian countries, including the Philippines, 310 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: where one local company producing can sartines started offering innovations 311 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: like easy open cans and pouches in the two thousands, 312 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: which I want to return to and talk to talk 313 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: more about later. Oh oh absolutely yes, UM. Going back 314 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: to Malaysia. By the nineteen thirties, tin sardines had become 315 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: a staple food as the manufacturing of them rose in 316 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: the price dropped. According to one report about all can 317 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: sartines exported from California ended up in Malaysia at one 318 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: time and more on California's industry. In a second, UM 319 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: sartinan's reviewed as a good source of protein and people 320 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: liked the taste. Sardine sandwiches were popular by the nineteen 321 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: seventies and eighties, made with other local ingredients. So while 322 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: the brand may have been introduced by this French guy, UM, 323 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: Malaysia has definitely made it their own. UM. Also, of note, 324 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: this is but one story at local companies offer sardines 325 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: to UM, but it was the interesting article about that. 326 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: And also listeners, if you've got more information, Yes, personal 327 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: experience always welcome. This is sort of outside the scope 328 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: of this podcast, but briefly, after World War One and 329 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: the global Spanish sloop pandemic that killed over fifty million people, 330 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: the International Olympic Committee put on the nineteen Summer Olympics 331 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: in Belgium, marketing it as a way to unify in 332 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: the aftermath of those events. Underfunded and stretched, Belgium try 333 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: to provide accommodations and food for the athletes, but they struggled, 334 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: and athletes described breakfasts of a role coffee and quote 335 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: one little sardine. Stepping back a bit, America's East coast 336 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: had a handful of sardine canaries, to particularly Maine. George 337 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: Buram kick started the sardine canaries in that state and 338 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: by some accounts in all of the u US in 339 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven and allegedly after a visit to France 340 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: and seeing their sardine canning industry. In the early nineteen hundreds, 341 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: Maine had eighty nine cannaries employing eight thousand people. Many 342 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: of the packers were women, and that's also an interesting 343 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: threat that fund. Yes. Oh and here's some some of 344 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: the legallys we've teased. Yes, you know, you know, we 345 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: love some legally. The British Board of Trade enacted to 346 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: policy in nineteen nine that forbade any fish that was 347 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: not taxonomically at sardine from being labeled as sardines, pretty 348 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: much excluding sardines so confusing from North America that came 349 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: from North America. To improve this was a whole thing. 350 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: But as part of this, to improve the reputation of 351 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: sardines in Maine, a few commissions were introduced over the 352 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: decades to do spot quality checks, amongst other things. Because 353 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: I feel like, from what I read in these articles, 354 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: startines from Europe, and I guess not North America had 355 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: a much better reputation, so they were trying to share. 356 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: They were like, don't call your product that is also 357 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: basically a sardine a sardine when we want to make 358 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: sure that we're selling our product. Thank you very much, indeed, 359 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: but I mean, on the other hand, there was another 360 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: lawsuit around this time that led to Norway starting to 361 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: label their products as smoked herring because they couldn't call 362 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: it sardines either anymore. Yeah, yes, the ladies man who 363 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: indeed a whole sardine situation. It is a whole situation. 364 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,479 Speaker 1: Speaking of situations, Okay, Canned sardines saw a real boom 365 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: and canneries along the western US coast in the early 366 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: twentie century, and these sardines fed millions of soldiers, ever 367 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: sees and thousands of workers, many of them immigrants working 368 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: along or near Canary Row in Monterey, California. During the 369 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: thirties and forties, California boasted the largest stardine fishery in 370 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: the Western Hemisphere, and fisherman pulled in seven six thousand 371 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: tons in peak season from nineteen thirty six to nineteen 372 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: thirty seven, So a lot everything looking good, looking good. 373 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: In n John Steinbeck published the novel Canary Row, and 374 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: in the nineteen forty nine film Kissing the Dark, a 375 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: stylish model serves the sandwich of sardines and peanut butter um. 376 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: The point of including this as and she was supposed 377 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: to be like really stylish. This was you know, upper 378 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: class food. Yeah, this was like, oh goodness. At the time, 379 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: Americans were going through about three point eight million cases 380 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: of sardines annually. But by the nineteen fifties, the sardine 381 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: population in that area had decreased dramatically. Canary Row was 382 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: largely abandoned, and the sardine industry had pretty much collapsed. 383 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: Historians looking into this have offered a couple of reasons 384 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: for why all this happened. The main one is over fishing. 385 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: Beginning in the nineteen thirties, sardines not only were being canned, 386 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: but also ground up for animal feed and used in 387 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: products like glue and paint and industrially. Um and that 388 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: coupled with demand for the can stuff put a massive 389 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: dent in the population. More recently, and I love this, 390 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,119 Speaker 1: this is interesting. Specimens of old seaweed further explained the 391 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: drop of the sardine population off the American West Coast um, 392 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: providing evidence of cycles of ocean upwelling. Okay, this is great. Yes, 393 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: So basically this is when nutrient waters from the deep 394 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: rise up to impart nutrients to more nutrient depleted shallower waters. 395 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: Using this ancient seaweed, scientists uncovered a dramatic decrease in 396 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: upwelling that corresponded to the decline of the sardine population. Yeah. 397 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: And an upwelling has to do with a with a 398 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: bunch of different factors um uh from from rainfall to 399 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: UH to ecological systems to all all sorts of kind 400 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: of things. But um yeah. I will also note here 401 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: that similar declines in sardine populations were happening all over 402 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: the world in the mid nineteen hundreds through the early 403 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: two thousand's UM. Just for one example, the the Southern 404 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: African catches peaked in the nineteen sixties and then busted 405 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,479 Speaker 1: like immediately um like fishers switched to anchovies, and stock 406 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: of sardines there has never really recovered. And on top 407 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: of that, can sardines were frequently guarded as foods for 408 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: the poor or as the food of necessity, especially here 409 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: in the US. Especially here in the US, thank you. 410 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: Most believed that sardines was something eaten straight from the 411 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: can cold, and maybe they found the skin and bones 412 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: off putting. The availability of refrigerators for the average American 413 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: didn't help either, because now you could get frozen fish 414 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: or fresh fish and then ter tuna dot thank you. 415 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: In the wake of the wide scale collapse of the 416 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,479 Speaker 1: can sardine industry, many fishers, producers, and customers pivoted towards 417 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: canned tuna instead, and in the absence of the sardine, 418 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: it really solidified tuna's reputation as the superior canned fish, 419 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: wholesome and without bones, great for the whole family. A 420 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: huge marketing campaign for tuna helped it surpass sardines too, 421 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: so it's like sardines are down for the count, tuna 422 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: comes in. It's like, oh yeah, I'll just take your 423 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: place and really tracks talking while you're gone m h. 424 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: From seven to six, intense restrictions and moratoriums around sardine 425 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: fishing were enacted and enforced in the US, allowing for 426 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: the sardine population to replenish. However, sardines had largely fallen 427 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: out of oague in America, with most preferring tuna. Maine's 428 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: last canary and the last in the US, from what 429 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: I gathered, closed in twenty Still, officials in Monterey expressed 430 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: concern that the numbers were once again reaching over fishing 431 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: territory in twenty nineteen. Yeah, and over on the other 432 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: coast Pacific, sardines are under population management right now. UM. 433 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: Commercial fishing of them was closed as off and has 434 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: not reopened yet. Yeah, and the Monterey one UM they 435 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: had to they were going to monitor again in then 436 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: the pandemic happened, and as far as I know, they 437 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: haven't they haven't been able to complete that UM survey. 438 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: But perhaps we'll see some updates around that soon. Yeah, 439 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: especially because sardines are experiencing a comeback here in the US, 440 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: particularly the fresh variety. UM. They are also more commonly 441 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: being used to feed tuna. I saw a couple of 442 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: articles about this, the belief being a diet of sardines 443 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: improves the taste of tuna, which is kind of interesting 444 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: given the history we just talked about. In recent years, 445 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: Portugal's canned fish industry has bounced back to producing about 446 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: the rate they were at their peak, but with far 447 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: fewer canneries due to improvements in technologies. UM sardines have 448 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: also been really growing in popularity in places like Japan, 449 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: and I would love if people could write in about that. 450 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: All the articles I try to read, we're behind a paywall, Okay, sure, yeah, 451 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: I would love more information. UM they're uh. There was 452 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: a really interestingly well studied UM ecological boom and bust 453 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: in sardines in the Indian Ocean from through twenty f teen, 454 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: like had this like wild peak UM and then was 455 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: down to like of former numbers by UM, which was 456 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: so destructive for the livelihoods of UM, these small business fishers, 457 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: which is terrible. UM. But on the plus side, UM, 458 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: we're living in an age now where we were able 459 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: to not like us, but you know, like people in 460 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: the industry, we're able to study factors UM from rainfall 461 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: and upwelling, to monsoons and ocean temperatures, to populations of 462 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: both food and predators, to technology advances that have allowed 463 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: for more thorough catches UM, and combine all of that 464 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: data into advice for the future on how to watch 465 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: for UM, watch for potential natural dips and populations, and 466 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: prevent overfishing during those times. Yeah, very important information. UM. 467 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: And then I just wanted to include this because I 468 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: hadn't heard of it and I thought it was interesting. UM. 469 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: Somewhere around the end of twenty nineteen, a group of 470 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: Italians came together to oppose populist figure Matteo Salvini while 471 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: promoting human rights in respect for migrants. They packed into 472 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: a piazza for a flash mob, earning them the name 473 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: Sardines and spurning on this movement across the whole country 474 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: again where a food show. I know it's ongoing, but 475 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: I did want to mention it because that was interesting 476 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: to me. Yeah. Yeah, sardines, Sartines. We went all over 477 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: the place, but still not to a coast where we 478 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: can eat. Lauren, Oh, I hope, I hope that that 479 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: that you'll forgive me for suggesting such an all over 480 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: the place, um outline. But but I think this one's 481 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: a lot of fun and right, and I'm really excited 482 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: about going down all of these little rabbit holes in 483 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: the future as am I. It was. It was a 484 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: fun one. It was a little overwhelming, but don't appologize 485 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: it was. It was good, um, And I trust the 486 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: good listeners will let us know if there's any particular 487 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: rabbit hole you really want us to pursue. Yeah, tell us, yes. 488 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I think this is what we 489 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: have to say about sardines from now. Yes. Yes, we 490 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: do have some listener mail prepared for you though, and 491 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: we will get into that as soon as we get 492 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: back from one more quick break for a word from 493 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsoring, Yes, thank you. 494 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: We're back with fish face. Well, that was ridiculous than 495 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: I was trying to do this SpongeBob one. Anyway, you 496 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: haven't seen it, so it doesn't I still have it. 497 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: It's okay, but that's what I was trying to accomplish, 498 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: and I knew you wouldn't get it, so I was like, 499 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: well I can do a more generic Okay, Um, I 500 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: hope everyone will forgive me for what happened. Oh dear okay, 501 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: Danielle wrote about our green bean episode. So I'm still 502 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: looking for my grandma's tomato soupcake recipe. My sister won't 503 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: give it up, but to the beans. Growing up here 504 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: in New Jersey in the eighties, I was lucky enough 505 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: to have known my great grandparents. My great grandpa moved 506 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 1: to Hoboken from San Marco, Italy in the early nineteen 507 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: hundreds with his brother. They were farmers back in Italy, 508 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 1: and according to my grandmother, they had more than enough 509 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: food during the depression. My great grandpa died when I 510 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: was seven or eight, so I was really little, But 511 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: I remember walking from my grandma's house in Jersey City 512 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: to their house just up the street and going down 513 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: a skinny alleyway and into the large ring gate with 514 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: a fancy latch on it. Once the gate opened, it 515 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: was literally like the secret garden. A large arch held 516 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: a beautiful grape vine with the most disgusting grapes I've 517 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: ever eaten. They are used to make grape juice, a 518 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: k a wine that he'd make in the basement, and 519 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: a small garden with neat little rows of every vegetable 520 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: you could think of. The two I remember most vividly 521 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: are basil, probably because every time I smell it, I 522 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: get transported back into that garden. And green beans, mostly 523 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: because I was a picky eater and those were one 524 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: of the veggies I devoured. Something my grandmother continued to 525 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: make after her parents died was a green bean salad, 526 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: which I know the recipe for because we made it 527 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: together a bunch of times before she passed away. So 528 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 1: here's the recipe. Step one, snap your beans. Step to 529 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: cook them until they are fork tender. Step three add 530 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: good quality red wine vinegar and olive oil. She'd only 531 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: used beer totally olive oil. She was extremely picky. Step 532 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: four at about as much fresh garlic as you can stand. 533 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: Step five, refrigerate for twenty four hours. It needs to marinate. 534 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. A few years ago, I went to a 535 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: barbecue at my sister in law's house. She also was 536 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: very smart and married in Italian. His mom had brought 537 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: green bean salad. I put some on my plate and 538 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: hesitantly took a bite, expecting it to not taste like 539 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: what I'm used to, but it tasted exactly the same. 540 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: We found out that our families are from nearby regions, 541 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: and his mom offered to show me how to make 542 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: fresh pasta, as that was one thing my grandmother stopped doing. 543 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: What's the fourteen grandkids started coming around. We still haven't 544 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 1: learned yet, but I have been watching TikTok and YouTube videos, 545 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: but I'm still nervous to try myself. Anyway, Thanks for 546 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: covering my favorite vegetable. Ps. Where is my tailor ham episode? 547 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: It's not called pork roll. Yes, I believe you. I've 548 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: been intimidated by the Tailor Hams slash pork Roll episode 549 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: in the same way that you are intimidated by fresh pasta. 550 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: I'm just like, well, I don't know. I don't know 551 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 1: about that one. It it sounds controversial. I mean there's 552 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: a lot of exculamation points and question marks in there. Yeah, 553 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: we'll do it. I want to know more. Um. Danielle 554 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: also gave us a how to order Forever in New 555 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: Jersey and it was like, don't take any pauses in 556 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: between words, So thank you, thank you. Yeah yeah, now 557 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 1: I have Yes, I have witnessed this myself. They do 558 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: not have time to waste be direct. Yeah. Oh my gosh, 559 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: I'm already like crumpling under the anxiety. Oh yeah, yeah, 560 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,440 Speaker 1: no as a Southerner now like now I'm a Southerner 561 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I can't get a sentence out 562 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: in less than seven minutes, Like what are you talking? Well, 563 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 1: we'll work on that, will work on that. Also, this 564 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: recipe sounds great to me. It sounds so fresh and 565 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: the way right. Oh my goodness, I that is. I 566 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: always kind of like, I forget how much I love 567 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: a good vegetable salad, especially if it's like in the summer, 568 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: nice and fresh. Yeah yeah, m m m um. Oh 569 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: and fresh basil is like the nice sail on the 570 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 1: entire planet. Yeah, nice little secret garden. Yeah ok um. 571 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: Heidi wrote back in April, I tried to listen to 572 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: the There Is No Spoon episode while I was driving 573 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: around and it wouldn't load. So I try to get 574 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: at home and it still wouldn't load. And then it 575 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: hit me, duh, it's in the title There's no actually 576 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: an episode about Spoons. And they made this fake episode 577 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 1: show up in my feed somehow as a joke. How 578 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: delightfully metau Fast forward to now and people are writing 579 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: it about spoons. It really sounds like there was a 580 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: conversation that I missed, But yet the episode will not 581 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: load on my phone even now, So I ask you, 582 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: is there or is there not an episode about Spoons? 583 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 1: If there is, I'll have to find another podcast app 584 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: or something to be able to listen to it. Thanks 585 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: in advance for clearing this up. And I thought you 586 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: would enjoy the story in any case. Oh no, no, 587 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: we're not that clever. We aren't. But wouldn't it be 588 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: like can you imagine if we had the depth and 589 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: diabolical nous to be like, not only will there not 590 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: be a Spoon episode, we'll read some fake listener mail 591 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: and then oh marn, oh my goodness, that is that 592 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 1: is I don't. I do not have the brain power 593 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: to go that far. Y'all should know right now that 594 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: I will never be that tricks because I'm tired. Yeah, 595 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: I can only do that every now and then in 596 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,280 Speaker 1: D and D every now and then. Oh oh, that's true, 597 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: that's true. I have time to really think about it. 598 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: I do enjoy that it happened to be episode in 599 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: that title that is. Yeah, yeah, I U when whenever 600 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: whenever we get listener right in and say that they're 601 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: having problems playing one specific episode. Um uh. The general 602 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: advice is always like try try like deleting it and 603 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: re downloading um or yeah, try it on another app 604 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: or um let us know what platform it is and 605 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: we can try to troubleshoot with our production team. Um 606 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: so uh so yeah, try those steps. Let us know 607 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 1: if it still doesn't work, um, and we will. I don't. 608 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:04,840 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe, like the the internet, the internet is just 609 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,800 Speaker 1: messing with us. Maybe yeah, maybe there is no episode 610 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: we did record one. Maybe the listeners are breaking us 611 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 1: for Oh no, Now I'm full of doubt. How quickly 612 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: the tables have turned. Well, you've you've you've raised more 613 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 1: questions than we've been able to answer. I think we've 614 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: been played, Lauren. Yes, yes, well let us know continue 615 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,839 Speaker 1: messing with us or will help you. I'm not sure 616 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: what's case anymore. Yes, uh And thanks to you both 617 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: of those listeners for writing. You would like to write 618 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:54,960 Speaker 1: to us, that you can or email us hello at 619 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: saber pot dot com. We're also on social media. You 620 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,120 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver 621 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,399 Speaker 1: pod and we do hope to hear from you. Saver 622 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my 623 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 624 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, probably unless 625 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: it's this one particular episode. Thanks as always to our 626 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, 627 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming 628 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: your way.