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Speaker 1: It's that time time, time, time, Luck and load.

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Speaker 2: Michael Very show is on the air. Houston. Duncan is

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Speaker 2: our guest. He is doing a new one man show

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Speaker 2: on the Great Thomas Soul. When I asked the question,

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Speaker 2: it was because I'm genuinely thinking about how I would

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Speaker 2: do it if I were doing that. I don't have

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Speaker 2: the acting skill you do. But I research people. I

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Speaker 2: study them. I say, I take them apart and put

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Speaker 2: them back together. I'm fascinated by by not just what

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Speaker 2: people have to say, especially someone like Soul who has

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Speaker 2: so much to say, but how they arrived at that.

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Speaker 2: You know, his experience with Milton Friedman and having been

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Speaker 2: in Friedman's class at the University of Chicago, and he says,

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Speaker 2: but I left the class and I was still a liberal.

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Speaker 2: And he goes to work for the Labor Department and

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Speaker 2: he realizes that the Labor Department does not care about

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Speaker 2: black people or employees, both of whom they claim to

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Speaker 2: and that when he pointed out that the data was

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Speaker 2: actually harmful to these people from what they were recommending,

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Speaker 2: that they said, that doesn't matter. And that was the moment,

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Speaker 2: that was his aha moment, that was his his eureka,

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, these people don't believe anything they're saying,

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Speaker 2: and it it transformed him and he went on to

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Speaker 2: be the man he is today. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: that's just absolutely fascinating. And that tells you this man

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Speaker 2: wasn't born into this, right, I mean, I've made a

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Speaker 2: transformation in my life from from what I think and

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Speaker 2: and where I am, and most of us have, and

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Speaker 2: in his I think that will I can. Sorry, I'm

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Speaker 2: thinking and planning this, this project for you. I'm writing

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Speaker 2: it in my head Clifton right now as we talk,

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Speaker 2: uh and and I'm just imagining you have such a

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Speaker 2: great opportunity to tell that as just that is that

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Speaker 2: is fantastic. So what does it look like? I mean,

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Speaker 2: will this be a will you go on tour? Because

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Speaker 2: if you do, we're coordinating Houston for you and all

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Speaker 2: of our markets for that matter. But what do you

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Speaker 2: envision this looking like?

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Speaker 3: Well, right now, the plan is to spend the next

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Speaker 3: six months developing, you know, researching and developing a first draft.

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Speaker 3: I've got a great line producer as well as some

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Speaker 3: great trusted friends who are New York sharp in terms of,

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Speaker 3: you know, their ability to discern what's good and what

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Speaker 3: is not. So that's the first step. But then as

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Speaker 3: time goes on, what I want to do. It's sort

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Speaker 3: of like what a stand up comedian does, right. They

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Speaker 3: go around and they do all types of venues to

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Speaker 3: test out their material because you don't know what works

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Speaker 3: until you do it in front of an audience. The

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Speaker 3: audience is the one who teaches you how to do

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Speaker 3: the show right. What you know, what moments are working,

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Speaker 3: what moments are clicking. When are they on the edge

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Speaker 3: of their seats, When are they listening? When are they

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Speaker 3: sort of unwrapping candies and coughing and wrestling through their programs?

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Speaker 3: When are they laughing? When are they you know, silent?

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Speaker 3: You know, are they gasping anywhere? And so you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean it's a piece of live theater and one

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Speaker 3: of the one of the great things about theater. And

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Speaker 3: you touched on this in your intro is you know,

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Speaker 3: it's just it's part of You're in this experience. You're

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Speaker 3: in a room with other people, other human beings, sharing

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Speaker 3: the same air, the same molecules, the same sound waves,

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Speaker 3: the same space, and experiencing something together. And that's the

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Speaker 3: magic of theater that you have you have the the

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Speaker 3: relationship between the actor and the audience that you don't

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Speaker 3: get when you're doing TV and film. And so that's

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Speaker 3: really a big prospect for me, is that, you know,

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Speaker 3: just touring around and seeing how people respond and what

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Speaker 3: they respond to. And I always enjoy talking to people

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Speaker 3: after shows as well to see like what worked for

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Speaker 3: them and what didn't, and also seeing the country but

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Speaker 3: will also be nice. But then ultimately the goal is

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Speaker 3: to upload the show on the internet so that the

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Speaker 3: whole world can see it. And but that's that's only

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Speaker 3: after it's been you know, honed and tightened and and

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Speaker 3: performed before you know, a bunch of audiences, which is

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Speaker 3: again what comedians do before they film their own special.

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Speaker 3: So that's you know, it might be a grueling road process.

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Speaker 3: But there's already been a few people who have been.

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Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you know, come do it. I somehow think

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Speaker 2: you're up for Clifton. You fell to the depths, didn't

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Speaker 2: expect it, had no net. We're waiting tables and wondering

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Speaker 2: what had become of your life. And and somehow since

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Speaker 2: then you you have had to talk about a guy

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Speaker 2: having a resurgence. You've had a pretty darn good, run yourself,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's it's headed upward. And I think

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Speaker 2: now you're in control of your career in a way

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Speaker 2: that even though you were an accomplished actor, you could

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Speaker 2: you were always at the at the mercy of the

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Speaker 2: casting agent. Now you're taking control of your own career

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Speaker 2: and the product you produce, and I think that's I

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Speaker 2: think that's very exciting. I think that's very exciting. Have

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Speaker 2: you given a thought, sorry, have you given thought to

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Speaker 2: meeting Thomas Old to conversations to that process.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know you mentioned before. I mean, he

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Speaker 3: is notoriously elusive. We say so initially, I mean I

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Speaker 3: was so excited. I didn't really think about it because

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Speaker 3: I figured I'm never going to get a response from him.

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Speaker 3: But I know people who know him, they're trying to

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Speaker 3: get in touch with him, or to get us in touch,

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Speaker 3: I should say, because you know, at the end of

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Speaker 3: the day, I was like, yeah, I'm so excited about it,

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Speaker 3: the idea, but be kind of weird to do this

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Speaker 3: whole play without without talking to him and you know,

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Speaker 3: hearing what he has to say about it. So we're

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Speaker 3: trying to get in touch with him, as you know,

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Speaker 3: it's very, very difficult to do so, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: you know, the dude is almost one hundred years old,

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Speaker 3: so I kind of want to leave him alone and

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Speaker 3: so he can have you know, so he can sort of,

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Speaker 3: you know, enjoy enjoy his time and not be pestered

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Speaker 3: by by some you know, young gen X, old millennial

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Speaker 3: who wants to you know, I guess talk about him.

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Speaker 3: So but we're working on trying to get in touch

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Speaker 3: with him, and you know, just even the phone call

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Speaker 3: would be would be cool. The visit will be even better.

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Speaker 3: But you know, we'll we'll see how that pans out.

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Speaker 2: The good news is there is a great body of

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Speaker 2: work out there, of interviews and I often quote examples

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Speaker 2: he gives in the book Basic Economics. And I studied

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Speaker 2: economics in college. I took a number of courses, and

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Speaker 2: I've read my wife was in a PhD program when

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Speaker 2: she switched to law from economics. Economics is something I

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Speaker 2: read about a lot, is something I think about, It's

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Speaker 2: something I stay I try to stay on top of.

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Speaker 2: And yet he writes this book Basic Economics, which is

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Speaker 2: kind of economics for people that didn't go to college,

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Speaker 2: and it is so beautifully written because of the simplicity.

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Speaker 2: Thomas Soul doesn't feel the need to be inaccessible to

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Speaker 2: show that he's brilliant. He does just the opposite. He

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Speaker 2: makes the difficult understandable. And you know, I think Rush

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Speaker 2: Limbo had a knack for doing that on the radio,

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Speaker 2: but Soul does that with very complicated concepts, and then

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Speaker 2: he'll use a little anecdote of you know, when he

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Speaker 2: was traveling in India and this happened. That book Basic

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Speaker 2: Economics is my favorite of everything he did because of

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Speaker 2: the accessibility and because of the ability to democratize knowledge

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Speaker 2: about simple scientific concepts underpinning economics. And I think that

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Speaker 2: that alone, if that was all he ever did, would

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Speaker 2: be amazing, and of course he did so much more well.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree. You know, I think Basic Economics should

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Speaker 3: be required reading for all high school students in the

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Speaker 3: United States. We'd have a way, way different country. And

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Speaker 3: I mean, he wrote it to be accessible, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, dude, if even a dummy like me can

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Speaker 3: understand what he's saying, you know, that is that is

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Speaker 3: a That's a great gift to be able to, like

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Speaker 3: you said, break down these complex issues and simplify them.

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Speaker 3: For the messes. I'm also thinking of someone like the

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Speaker 3: physicist Richard Feynman. Feinnman was also someone who really championed simplicity.

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Speaker 3: But the thing about it is that even in the

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Speaker 3: arts as well and the craft of acting, you know, simplicity, simplicity,

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Speaker 3: simplicity is always key. Be specific, be simple. You don't

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Speaker 3: need a bunch of ornate you know, flowery language, or

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Speaker 3: you don't have to use a bunch of gestures or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Just get to what's simple and what's true. And that's

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Speaker 3: as true for I think Thomas Soul's work as it

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Speaker 3: is for acting as well. So it's kind of funny

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Speaker 3: now that I'm saying it's out loud, but in a

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Speaker 3: way that that approach to make something, make something simple

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Speaker 3: and accessible, and it was probably a good ethos to follow.

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Speaker 2: What else do you want to marry? What do you

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Speaker 2: want you.

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Speaker 3: Want to the Michael Barry.

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Speaker 4: Just to say the word and.

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Speaker 2: I'll throw a asshole around for god. Clifton Duncan, a celebrated,

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Speaker 2: much respected stage actor, is our guest. He is doing

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Speaker 2: a new one man show on the great Thomas Soul

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Speaker 2: and sharing some details about that with us. When friends

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Speaker 2: of mine from law school used to say, you know, Michael,

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Speaker 2: you're better than that. You're talking about such simplistic things

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Speaker 2: in such simplistic ways. I would respond, and they never

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Speaker 2: liked this. I would say, I sell big Max, not caviar,

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Speaker 2: because it's the masses. And so many times we try

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Speaker 2: to distance ourselves in this ivory tower from real people

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Speaker 2: by using language that is hard to understand and therefore disconnects,

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Speaker 2: when the point is the ideas should be universal and

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Speaker 2: they should be accessible. And I think that's one of

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Speaker 2: the things that Soul does so beautifully and so modest,

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Speaker 2: because he does not attempt to hold himself out as

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Speaker 2: if he's a pontificating professor, but quite the opposite.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: He tells a story about he was teaching at I

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Speaker 2: think it was Cornell. I think it was Cornell, and

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Speaker 2: he was talking about how affirmative action had hurt the

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Speaker 2: black students and how he went to the admissions office

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Speaker 2: and he found that the students who were struggling the

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Speaker 2: most were students who were black and shouldn't have been admitted.

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Speaker 2: And his point was these students were going to fill

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Speaker 2: out of Cornell and fell out of life because of

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Speaker 2: what would happen when that student should have gone to

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Speaker 2: Indiana or Indiana State and they would have been an

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Speaker 2: a student and they could have built along the way.

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Speaker 2: It's like throwing a kid from high school into the

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Speaker 2: pro into the pro and they're not ready for that,

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Speaker 2: and you think you're helping them, but you're not. Clifton

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Speaker 2: Duncan is our guest. He's working on a project called Soul,

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Speaker 2: a solo play about an American genius. Now, I noticed

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Speaker 2: recently you did a GoFundMe and your goal was to

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Speaker 2: raise ten thousand dollars and in a matter of hours

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Speaker 2: you had raised seventy two thousand dollars with six hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty eight backers. It is clear to me that

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Speaker 2: there is an audience for what you're doing, and more importantly,

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of people out here like our

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Speaker 2: show that support what you're doing. That's got to be

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Speaker 2: got to be humbling and gratifying. It definitely is, and

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Speaker 2: on some level it's a bit daunting. But after remind

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Speaker 2: myself that people are very excited and they want to

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Speaker 2: they want to see me succeed, which is great. But

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Speaker 2: I think the biggest story about that is that right now,

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Speaker 2: the American theater industry is still reeling from its self

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Speaker 2: inflicted wounds from the pandemic years.

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Speaker 3: And I mean Als one of the only people who

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Speaker 3: was saying publicly like, we shouldn't we shouldn't be doing this.

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Speaker 3: This is not the right way to go. You go

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Speaker 3: to destroy the industry, And they're as of now, I mean,

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Speaker 3: Broadway still has not recovered from from their closures, their

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Speaker 3: theaters around the country which are truncating their seasons or

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Speaker 3: they're closing outright, and you know, the leaders within the

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Speaker 3: theater industry are just are talking about how there's just

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Speaker 3: you know, how it's so expensive to produce shows, and

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Speaker 3: you know, twenty percent of the audience hasn't even come back,

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Speaker 3: and owners are drying up in the ideaiata. And I'm

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Speaker 3: just one guy, and within the span of a couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks, I've raised almost one hundred thousand dollars. So

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Speaker 3: on one hand, it's a bit of I take a

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Speaker 3: little bit of joy in the fact that these people

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Speaker 3: who decided that I should not be allowed to work

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Speaker 3: for making a very logical medical decision for myself are

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Speaker 3: sitting there wondering, what the heck are we going to do?

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Speaker 3: How we're going to you know, like I hear from

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Speaker 3: my friends who are still in the game in New

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Speaker 3: York who are saying, you know, own the stars are

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Speaker 3: making money now, like you know, the regular sort of

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Speaker 3: jobbing journeymen actors who they make their living, but you know,

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Speaker 3: they have to hustle it it. There's just nowhere near

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Speaker 3: as much money anymore. At the same time, what's also

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Speaker 3: great is that it indicates to me what I've felt

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Speaker 3: for a long time, which is that there is a huge,

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Speaker 3: huge audience outside of these deep blue metros who think

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Speaker 3: they're so much better than everybody else and think they're

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Speaker 3: so much more sophisticated than everybody else.

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Speaker 2: Like, no, you are something right there, brother, keep going.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well you know people, but people want

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Speaker 3: to see great arts and they don't want to you know,

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Speaker 3: made by people that don't hate them. And there's this idea,

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Speaker 3: you know, and I spent so much time around these people,

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Speaker 3: but they think everyone in Red America or flyover country,

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Speaker 3: so to speak, is some redneck groub or whatever they like.

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Speaker 3: They don't get it. They just don't get it. And

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Speaker 3: to me, I think the bigger story, it's bigger than

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Speaker 3: myself is that there are people out there. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there are so many like sort of small donors to

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Speaker 3: the project who want to see succeed or I get

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Speaker 3: messages from people who say, like, I don't really have

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Speaker 3: anything to give, but I'm like yo, you know, like

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Speaker 3: great comments and good vibes are also accepted as means

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Speaker 3: of support. So there's a huge, untapped, massive people who

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Speaker 3: are who want to come and give their you know,

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Speaker 3: and trade their money and their time for a great

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Speaker 3: experience at the theatre in the arts. And that's that's

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Speaker 3: really the big story for me, because I think more

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Speaker 3: I suppose I call the more conservative leaning, more right leaning,

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Speaker 3: you know whatever. One of my frustrations has been that,

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Speaker 3: you know, there hasn't been that much support for the

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Speaker 3: for the arts, but why would they write you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean, that they've been so reviled by people

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Speaker 3: who are making so much of the culture. So it's

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Speaker 3: just it's really gratifying, you know, on multiple levels, but

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Speaker 3: especially because it's it's money coming from people that, you know,

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Speaker 3: aren't they They have been pushed out, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean, from from the industry, and so that that's

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Speaker 3: the bigger story there is that there is a there

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Speaker 3: is a a hunger for for arts and for culture

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Speaker 3: and for entertainment, and that is the that's really gratifying

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Speaker 3: for me, because I'm like, dude, this is it, This

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Speaker 3: is it right here, there's way, way, way, way more

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Speaker 3: people who outside of New York and LA.

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Speaker 2: And trying to.

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Speaker 3: Doing work that appeals to do those people, to me,

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Speaker 3: seems like a much much, a much better idea than

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Speaker 3: catering to the sliver of people who adhere to these

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Speaker 3: really sort of extreme left wing views which just keep

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Speaker 3: getting more and more insane.

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Speaker 2: You Clifton Duncan is our guest is a great stage actor,

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Speaker 2: was in Broadway. He refused to bend the knee during

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Speaker 2: COVID and found himself out of a career and an

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Speaker 2: identity and out of great artistic talent and a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of grit. Is back and he's going to be

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Speaker 2: bigger than ever. He's got a lot going on. We're

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Speaker 2: going to get to that in just a moment, but

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Speaker 2: we wanted to talk to him about his new project,

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Speaker 2: a one man show about Thomas Soul. You wrote, Clifton.

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Speaker 2: Legendary producer Rick Rubin is open about the anxiety he

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Speaker 2: feels at the start of a new project, you just

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Speaker 2: don't know what the damn thing's going to be. That's daunting.

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Speaker 2: So now what's next? And then you tell a about

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Speaker 2: as you read it becoming Thomas Soul, do you intend

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Speaker 2: to wear his black horn rim glasses? And we talked

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Speaker 2: about his afro earlier. Do you intend to do you

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Speaker 2: intend to appear to look like Thomas Soul?

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Speaker 3: Well, of course, you know, and someone actually on that

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Speaker 3: post is on my substack, the State of the Arts,

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Speaker 3: and they posted about his glasses specifically, and he said,

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Speaker 3: you know, you could use it as a form of

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Speaker 3: a mask. So in the theater and acting, you know,

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Speaker 3: you can sometimes use maskwork to find different shades of

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Speaker 3: a character or different different modes of expression. And to me,

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Speaker 3: the glasses they're so iconic, you know, along with the fro,

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Speaker 3: that that's one of those things where you have to

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Speaker 3: incorporate it and do it. And I'm curious as to

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Speaker 3: how the glasses would transform it. I sort of see

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Speaker 3: this moment in the show where the dawning of the

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Speaker 3: glasses becomes a pivotal kind of moment that people kind

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Speaker 3: of know because people know him because of the you know,

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Speaker 3: these glasses.

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Speaker 2: And that sort of rumpled professor look he has, right,

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Speaker 2: he's not in any way stylish's. He's sort of like

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Speaker 2: the professor in the paper Chase. He's he's got kind

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Speaker 2: of the hound's tooth uh off colored jacket, but he

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Speaker 2: always has to tie and he always has the dress.

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Speaker 2: But he's not he's not stylish per SE's. He's sort

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Speaker 2: of conservatively dressed. But it's very distinctive. You can. You know,

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Speaker 2: I watch I watch everything on him on YouTube, and

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Speaker 2: when I'm flipping around because I've watched so much, the algorithm,

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Speaker 2: you know, puts more in my cue to watch, and

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Speaker 2: I can always spot him, you know, you can just

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Speaker 2: glance at him. You can see that it's him. It

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Speaker 2: is interesting because the glasses, I think probably will transform

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Speaker 2: you because that's so unlike your look. Yeah, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know I have I have.

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Speaker 3: I'm slightly near sighted, so I have some glasses that

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Speaker 3: I wear, but they're no, they're nowhere on a level

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Speaker 3: of of the of the soul glasses, the soul godless.

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Speaker 2: I don't care if somebody this restakes you. You can't

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Speaker 2: shoot Michaels.

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Speaker 5: It's been rebooked, so if the comparison between progress simply

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Speaker 5: the decency of the life available to people. They weren't black,

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Speaker 5: the families were intact and schools worked, and the neighborhood's

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Speaker 5: more or less safe, that people were able to lead

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Speaker 5: decent lives.

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Speaker 2: If the contrast between that.

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Speaker 5: World and the world we inhabit now is owing so

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Speaker 5: directly to liberal policies intended, so we're told to help

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Speaker 5: African Americans. Why do African Americans support the liberal the

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Speaker 5: more liberal of the two parties, the Democratic Party, at

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Speaker 5: the rates of ninety and more percent. Why is the

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Speaker 5: first African American president so deeply committed to promoting and

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Speaker 5: extending liberal policies. Why is his African American Attorney general

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Speaker 5: again so deeply committed to affirmative action and other.

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Speaker 2: Why this makes no sense?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't think we could be enough hours to

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Speaker 1: answer all those, But to take the political thing, one

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Speaker 1: of the things I discovered in the research for mine

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Speaker 1: and from my book I'm currently working on, is that

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Speaker 1: leaders of groups that are lagging in countries around the

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Speaker 1: world almost invariably have counterproductive policies for them. And it

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Speaker 1: makes perfect sense because in so far as members of

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Speaker 1: lagging groups assimilate into the values and achievements of the

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Speaker 1: larger society.

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Speaker 2: They don't need those leaders, you know.

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Speaker 1: And you see this you look at the history of

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Speaker 1: the Czechs in the nineteenth century. People are worried that

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Speaker 1: the Czechs are all learning to speak German. Well, at

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Speaker 1: that time, if you wanted to become a professional person, scientists,

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Speaker 1: anything like that, you had to use books that were

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Speaker 1: written in German, simply because the German acquired a volume

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Speaker 1: of literature centuries ahead of Czech And yet they fought to.

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Speaker 3: With and nail against that.

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Speaker 1: If you look at the Sri Lanka, one of the

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Speaker 1: arguments that was made there to the Buddhists leaders was

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Speaker 1: that if we don't do something, the Tamil minority will

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Speaker 1: assimilate members of the of the of the sin Ealese majority,

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Speaker 1: and then there will be no Buddhists or sin Ealese

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Speaker 1: in another several generations. And so, I mean, there's no

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Speaker 1: mystery to me as the why Jesse Jackson says what

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Speaker 1: he does, or Al Shafton and others because that benefits them,

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Speaker 1: but it does not benefit the people they lead. And

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Speaker 1: all the incentives are for leaders to lead people into

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Speaker 1: things that don't help the people but help the leaders.

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Speaker 2: Clifton Duncan, Why do you think there has been you know,

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Speaker 2: six hundred and twenty eight backers, you've had more than

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Speaker 2: that since then? That was the number I saw from

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Speaker 2: a few days ago. Where do you what is the

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Speaker 2: source of this? Why do you think people want He's

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Speaker 2: not a well known guy, or as well known as

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Speaker 2: he should be considering his intellectual prowess and his influence.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think people want to see this?

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Speaker 3: Well? One, you know, I've built an audience over the

390
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Speaker 3: past few years just by speaking my mind, and so

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Speaker 3: I think the the people that I've attracted to my work,

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Speaker 3: or my ideas, or my opinions, my persona whatever you

393
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Speaker 3: you know, whatever you might want to call it, they're

394
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Speaker 3: excited about the prospect of me doing doing something, especially

395
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Speaker 3: giving my story in my background. And I think, again,

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Speaker 3: soul is somebody who among this demographic of folks is highly,

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Speaker 3: highly revered. And so I think the combination of those

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Speaker 3: two factors and people are really sick of the current

399
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Speaker 3: traditional cultural institutions just pumping out I mean everything from

400
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Speaker 3: comic books and video games to Hollywood. Right, they're pumping

401
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Speaker 3: out this content that or this material that speaks to

402
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Speaker 3: one at Soul put a vision of the world and

403
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Speaker 3: it's just not connecting with people. So I think there's

404
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Speaker 3: an excitement about myself. There's an excitement about seeing someone

405
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Speaker 3: like Soul brought to the stage in the manner of

406
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Speaker 3: you know, a third Good Marshall or James Baldwin or

407
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Speaker 3: you know, Louis Armstrong or Paul Robinson have been done before.

408
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Speaker 3: And there's also just a sort of what's the PG term,

409
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Speaker 3: sort of a middle finger to the established cultural institution saying, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, we we're putting our money where we want

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Speaker 3: it to go, and we're we're not putting it like

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Speaker 3: I said before, that we're not going to your theaters.

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Speaker 3: We want to see we want to hire this person

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Speaker 3: to write this play. We don't we don't care about

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Speaker 3: what you're doing, you know, over there. And so I

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Speaker 3: think it's it's a it's a it's a mixture of

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Speaker 3: things and also a Florida aspect. Now that I think

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Speaker 3: about it might be just I think there seems to

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Speaker 3: be a shift in the zeitgeist. I'm in New York

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Speaker 3: right now, and I was hanging out last night with

421
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Speaker 3: a bunch of younger artists, and there is a it

422
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Speaker 3: was a much more heterodox crowd, mixed crowd. There were

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Speaker 3: some Republicans there, there were some you know, lefties there,

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Speaker 3: and I think a lot of people are really more

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Speaker 3: even in New York, are just really they're more over

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Speaker 3: all of this division and partisan nonsense than I think

427
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Speaker 3: we're being led to believe. Like it's sort of an

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Speaker 3: open conversation now, but about what the problems are in

429
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Speaker 3: terms of you know, quote unquote wokeness or progressivism, whatever

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Speaker 3: it is people are seeing, and I think they really

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Speaker 3: are being getting fed up with it. So, you know,

432
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 3: it also just might be the right place at the

433
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 3: right time. I mean, you know, that's what most acting

434
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 3: careers are anyway. But maybe in the cultural zeitgeist, it's

435
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 3: just that time where people are like, we're ready for

436
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 3: this and this is what we want. So maybe I'm

437
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: just a lucky so and so by discovering, you know,

438
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 3: striking right at the right.

439
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 2: Time, Well, I have you here. You have certainly peaked

440
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 2: a number of people's interest in who is the man

441
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: behind this voice and this experience of how he got there?

442
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: And we've gone deep into that in the past but

443
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 2: before I let you go, I want to let people

444
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: know what you're up to and how they can support you.

445
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 2: You're doing a podcast now.

446
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Michael. So, I mean, I do have a podcast,

447
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 3: but I haven't recorded an episode in a while. It's

448
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,719
Speaker 3: the Clifton Duncan Podcast, but I will resume shortly with

449
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 3: some fantastic guests. I also have a sub stack aka

450
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 3: newsletter called The State of the Arts, which I try

451
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 3: to post weekly, but you know, things are really busy lately,

452
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 3: so it's a bit more difficult. But my thoughts about

453
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 3: just the state of our cultural institutions, and it's the

454
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 3: intersection both that and the podcast. But the tagline is,

455
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 3: you know, the intersection of art, entertainment, culture and society.

456
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 3: So it's a bit of current events, bit of politics,

457
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 3: but mostly art and culture and how they intersect and

458
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 3: and how they influenced society. I'm also on Twitter at

459
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 3: Clifton A. Duncan. That's probably my biggest platform right now.

460
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 3: I'm also on Instagram at Clifton Duncan Online. And finally

461
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 3: I have a YouTube channel which is just my first

462
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 3: and last name, Clifton Duncan, and you know, you can

463
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 3: find my podcast on. There some performance videos as well,

464
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 3: which I hope to post more of. So that's my

465
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 3: digital footprint and how people can find me and find

466
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 3: out more about me.

467
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: I'm very proud of what you've done, making lemons, making

468
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: lemonade out of the lemons that were dealt you. I

469
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: told you when we spoke several years ago that you

470
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: are a very dangerous man, because the most dangerous man

471
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 2: is a black man with an independent mind in America today,

472
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 2: and you have dared to be dangerous by being independent.

473
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: You may not recall, but you and I share a

474
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 2: birthday of November tenth, so one of the love of

475
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: Thomas soul and a birthday of November tenth, I'm reminded

476
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 2: by looking at your Twitter page, Clifton Duncan. We look

477
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: forward to seeing this production. We wish you the absolute best.

478
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 2: I'm sure some folks don't want to contribute to you,

479
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 2: to you to your fundraiser for that to help you

480
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: put this on, and I will be as well. And

481
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 2: good luck, my man, good luck. You're doing great work.

482
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 2: You're making a difference.

483
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 3: Michael, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure. Ramon

484
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: King of Ding and this other guy, Michael Barry.

485
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: My friend David Malsby, who's the executive director of Well,

486
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: you know, because Ramone's making David malls be jokes because

487
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 2: they're big buddies. Who's the executive director of Camp Hope,

488
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: and Ramone spends a lot of time with David. They

489
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: record the Camp Hope podcast together. Well, I laughed because

490
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: he's Ramone said, he's not your friend. One y'all think

491
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 2: I'm laughing at David Malsby. I wouldn't do that. Ramon's

492
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: basically saying that that David doesn't like me, which could

493
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: be true. Could be true, because I'm you know, I

494
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: can be difficult to be around. But David Mallsby sent

495
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: me something recently that I really liked. It's Johnny Carson

496
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: and Ramona and I love Johnny Carson telling the story

497
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: of how he first met Red Skelton. And there's going

498
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: to be a point to this at the end of it.

499
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: But for some of our older listeners, you you probably

500
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: love Red Skelton, and I know I do. I just

501
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: thought it was a great story. So I'm constantly consuming content,

502
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: and some of it I want to share with you.

503
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 2: So here was the story.

504
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 6: Let me tell you how I first met Red Skelton.

505
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 6: I may have told this a story on the air before,

506
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 6: But when I first came to California in nineteen fifty,

507
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 6: I was doing a show at KNXT, the local CBS

508
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 6: channel on Vine Street, was right across then the Hollywood

509
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 6: Ranch Market, and I had a five minute television show

510
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 6: in the morning one from eight to.

511
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: Fifty five to nine o'clock.

512
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 6: Well, if you take the half hour station identification time,

513
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 6: it really comes down to four and a half minutes, right.

514
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 6: He was sponsored by a coffee from the Midwest called

515
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 6: Butternut Coffee. So by the time you take out the commercial,

516
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 6: I had three and a half minutes a show, and

517
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 6: only I had a little too flat, and I had

518
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 6: the door on two saw horses. That was my desk,

519
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 6: very little money, so I would come in and do

520
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 6: some jokes on what was going on on the paper.

521
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 6: And one morning, just for the fun of it, I

522
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 6: had the stage manager just run in front of the

523
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 6: camera could even see what was I says I read.

524
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 6: I said, that was today's guest, Red Skelton, and we

525
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 6: don't have any more time to talk with him because

526
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 6: of the limits of our show. I got a call

527
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 6: on the telephone from Red Skelton, who watches a lot

528
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 6: of television. He's a television fan and he's watching the

529
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 6: local kid in the local station near Los Angeles do

530
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 6: the show.

531
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: He says, would you like me to go down and

532
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 2: be on the show?

533
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 6: I said, you've got to be kidding. Next morning, he

534
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 6: gets in his car. He drives down from his home.

535
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 6: Red Skeleton shows up at KNXT and I was been

536
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 6: a fan of Red since I was a kid.

537
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: He says, what would you like me to do?

538
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 6: And I said, well, if you don't mind nothing.

539
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: He says, what do you mean.

540
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 6: I said, I just want you to sit behind me

541
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 6: and I'll do the show and you just sit there.

542
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: He said, okay, So I came out.

543
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 6: I'd do my three minutes of jokes and so forth.

544
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 6: At the end of the show, I turned around and

545
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 6: I said.

546
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: And what's your name?

547
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 6: And I said, and he would say I'm Red Skeleton,

548
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 6: and I would say A likely story, and I say,

549
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 6: thank you, We'll see you tomorrow. This went on for

550
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 6: about seven or eight shows. This man got in the car,

551
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 6: he drove down. I didn't let him for six days,

552
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 6: and the final day we opened up the show and

553
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 6: I found the Kenny.

554
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: The other day at home. I still have that little.

555
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 6: Segment and I was bound and gagged. My hands were

556
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 6: tired and the gag and Red was set there and

557
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 6: did the three and a half minutes, did the commercial

558
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 6: and everything.

559
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: That is the way we.

560
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 6: Met well most times I ever had in my life.

561
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 6: Where was hanging around CBS in the fifties when you

562
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 6: were on the air and all those great shows came out,

563
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 6: playoffs in ninety and Bob Cross being our link letter

564
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 6: and all those great shows were working.

565
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: There was a lot of fun.

566
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's what You're a wonderful man to be around.

567
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: You taught me a lot. I stole a lot from you. Yeah,

568
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: oh yes I did.

569
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 7: No.

570
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 4: No, it's like the students. They say, Johnny was with

571
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 4: you at one time. You helped him gets I said, no,

572
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 4: nobody helps you get started. If you've got talent, thinking,

573
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 4: put you behind a brick wall, you'll come through. You know.

574
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: That's so that's what you have. And I know we

575
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: play this on the fourth of July every year, but

576
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: we cannot talk about Red Skelton without playing the Red

577
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 2: Skeleton Pledge of Allegiance version. That is my absolute favorite.

578
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 2: Although Charlie Daniels is just be a close second. So

579
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: it's kind of like Paul Harvey. It's timeless. So here

580
00:29:59,680 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: we go.

581
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 4: I remember a teacher that I had now, only I

582
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 4: went through the seventh grade.

583
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: I went to the seventh grade and I.

584
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 4: Left home when I was ten years old because I

585
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 4: was hungry, and I used to do I work in

586
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 4: the summer and I go to school in the winter.

587
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: But I had this one teacher.

588
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 4: It was the principal of the Harrison School in Vincennes, Indiana.

589
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 4: To me, this was the greatest teacher, a real sage

590
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 4: of my time. Anyhow, he had such wisdom, and we

591
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 4: were all reciting the Pledge of Allegiance one day and

592
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 4: he walked over, this little old teacher, mister Lasswell was

593
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 4: his name, mister Lastwell, and he says, I've been listening

594
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 4: to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance

595
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 4: all semester, and it seems as though it's becoming monotonous

596
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 4: to you. If I may, may I recite it and

597
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 4: try to explain to you the meaning of each word.

598
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: I me an individual, a committee of one.

599
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 7: Pledge dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without

600
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 7: self pity, allegiance, my love, and my devotion.

601
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 4: To the flag, our standard old glory, a symbol of freedom.

602
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 4: Wherever she waives, there's respect because your loyalty has given

603
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 4: her a dignity that shouts Freedom is everybody's job.

604
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: United.

605
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 4: That means that we have all come together, states, individual

606
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 4: communities that have united into forty eight great states, forty

607
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 4: eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose, all

608
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 4: divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose.

609
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: And that's love for country and to the republic. Republic

610
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 4: a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives

611
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 4: chosen by the.

612
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: People to govern.

613
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: And government is the people, and it's from the people

614
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 4: to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people.

615
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 4: For which it stands one nation, one nation, meaning so

616
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 4: blessed by God, indivisible, incapable of being divided. With liberty,

617
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 4: which is freedom, the right of power to live one's

618
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 4: own life without threats, fear, or some sort of retaliation,

619
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 4: and justice the principle are qualities of dealing fairly with others,

620
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 4: for all for all, which means, boys and girls, it's

621
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 4: as much your country as it is mine. And now, boys,

622
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 4: and girls, let me hear you recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

623
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 4: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States

624
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 4: of America and to the Republic for which it stands,

625
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 4: one nation, indivision, with liberty and justice for all. Since

626
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 4: I was a small boy, two states have been added

627
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 4: to our country, and two words have been added to

628
00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 4: the Pledge of Allegiance under God. Wouldn't it be a

629
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: pity if someone said that is a prayer, and that

630
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 4: would be eliminated from school stoop