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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back. You are back at the Book

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Speaker 1: of Joe with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden. Of

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Speaker 1: course this is the most interesting baseball podcast on the planet, Joe.

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Speaker 1: But I want to start with a golf question which

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Speaker 1: will lead into our baseball discussion.

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Speaker 2: Here.

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Speaker 3: I understand you got a new driver.

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Speaker 2: I have got a new driver.

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Speaker 3: How do you like it?

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 4: What I did was, I'm going to just be very brief,

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Speaker 4: but I was very consistent with the regular driver, regular

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Speaker 4: length of a driver. I just could not control the

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Speaker 4: ark whatever, so I knocked it down. I was hitting

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Speaker 4: the tailor burner. But then I figured, let me just

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Speaker 4: try a regular hitdit club. So I went and got

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Speaker 4: a titleist TS One had the guys cut it down

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Speaker 4: to the same exact length of the burner driver, which

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Speaker 4: is like forty four forty three point seventy five inches,

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Speaker 4: like forty five and a quarter. I think, and wow,

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Speaker 4: that made all the difference in the world. And I'm

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Speaker 4: controlling my driver, I'm staying behind the baseball or the

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Speaker 4: golf ball going farther, it's going straighter. All the above

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Speaker 4: speeder shaft, and I really don't understand the difference of

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Speaker 4: shaft makes in a golf club to kickpoint, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: So yes, and actually I've had my buddy Frank Ratis

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Speaker 4: now the pro at BCC Valley Country Club, ordered me

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Speaker 4: the new iteration of the I think it's a GT

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Speaker 4: one T the titleist driver with a new speeder shaft

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Speaker 4: that's been cut down directly from the factory. So let's

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Speaker 4: see what happens. That should be there one should be

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Speaker 4: here once there Thursday.

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Speaker 1: Well, I love all the detail you gave us there, Joe,

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Speaker 1: because you know this dovetails with what I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about here. Because you're a good golfer, but you're

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Speaker 1: not exactly on the Champions Tour. No, that's ther Ga Tour, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean you're doing this because it's fun. You want

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Speaker 1: to get better. Imagine though, if you were on the

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Speaker 1: tour right what you just described in terms of finding

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Speaker 1: the right driver for you, the right shaft just multiply

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Speaker 1: that I don't know by how many times to understand

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Speaker 1: what a professional golfer goes through.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing that now in Major League Baseball with these bats.

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Speaker 1: I mean we can't do this show without talking about

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Speaker 1: torpedo bets, right, But there's something bigger going on here,

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Speaker 1: and that is customization of bets.

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Speaker 3: Now, it's been going on for a while. This is

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Speaker 3: nothing new.

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Speaker 1: You know, Marucci was one of the first ones I

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Speaker 1: can remember down in Louisiana that had to a lab

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Speaker 1: where they.

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Speaker 3: Go in there they literally fit you for a bet.

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Speaker 3: This has been going on for a few years.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's gone for a long time, but

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Speaker 1: it makes complete sense when you use that golf analogy.

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Speaker 1: Joe and I think that's what we're talking about here

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Speaker 1: with these torpedo bets because what they did where they

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Speaker 1: were able to find out where guys are making contact

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Speaker 1: on the part of the bet. And listen, we all

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Speaker 1: want it as baseball players, you always want to hit

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Speaker 1: it on the sweet spot, right on the barrel.

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Speaker 3: But there are some guys maybe are just slightly off

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Speaker 3: the barrel.

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Speaker 1: And in this case, a guy like Anthony Volpi, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was hitting the ball maybe more than he wanted to,

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Speaker 1: actually a little bit below and I'm talking about below,

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Speaker 1: being closer to the handle on the normal sweet spot

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Speaker 1: of a bet. So what they did was they got

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Speaker 1: them into a bat where that barrel now the thickest

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Speaker 1: part is a little lower, and that matches up with

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Speaker 1: where he's been contacting the baseball. And so we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of people now obviously talking about torpedo bats.

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Speaker 3: Are they legal?

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Speaker 1: You know, it looks weird, so people think maybe it

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be allowed. But I think this is a great

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Speaker 1: innovation in baseball. And I'm saying this, Joe, because it's

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Speaker 1: like your driver. Maybe I hit your driver. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: work for me. The same with these torpedo bats. It

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Speaker 1: probably is not. Well, it definitely is not for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Just ask Aaron Judge who sticking with his bat. But

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Speaker 1: there's something going on here larger picture that we're getting

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Speaker 1: into an age now where you know, we have so

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Speaker 1: much technology we can get guys into labs literally see

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Speaker 1: where the ball is coming off their bat and try

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Speaker 1: to get the beat either through the zone faster and

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Speaker 1: or get it on the barrel more often.

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Speaker 3: What do you think?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I came into a letter part of

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Speaker 4: the discussion yesterday on Baseball Now, and you had spoken

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Speaker 4: about the ax bat. I did, so I chose not

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Speaker 4: to mention it. But that's another creation with the handle

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Speaker 4: and the ax bat for me, was designed in order

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Speaker 4: to help prevent a hitter from rolling over at contact.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was a great concept and had all

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Speaker 4: the I got enough of them in the Angels camp.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted guys to try them.

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Speaker 4: You don't have to use them, just try them in

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Speaker 4: spring training and see if, in fact, it makes a difference.

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Speaker 4: So you could go all the way back when arizona'structurally,

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Speaker 4: I don't remember exactly, but I'm the hitting coach and

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Speaker 4: I saw too many bats blowing up. I saw too

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Speaker 4: many bats splinter ring. So I ordered all the bats

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Speaker 4: for the guys that you're in camp. And what I

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Speaker 4: wanted was each bat to be within two ounces of

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Speaker 4: the length of the bat. So it was a thirty five,

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Speaker 4: it could be a no lighter than a thirty three.

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Speaker 4: It was a thirty four, no lighter than a thirty

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Speaker 4: two ounce, and of it's a thirty three inches no

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Speaker 4: lighter than a thirty one ounce. I was just trying

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Speaker 4: to get these guys to understand the length of the bat.

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Speaker 2: Controlling the length of the.

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Speaker 4: Bat, plus a feel within it where the bat actually survived.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if there were like thirty five thirty one outs.

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Speaker 4: There were just anything in off the handle was just

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Speaker 4: absolutely explode, exploding. So I was just looking for a

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Speaker 4: better piece of wood and just having the guys try

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Speaker 4: and experiment with these things.

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Speaker 2: We could keep going.

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Speaker 4: Cup bats got the bat cup at the end, so

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Speaker 4: you get a little bit more dense wood at the

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Speaker 4: head of the bat, and you cup it to take

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Speaker 4: out a little bit of that weight, and then it

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Speaker 4: was said to be a little bit more aerodynamic.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true or not, but that

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Speaker 2: was the word on the street.

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Speaker 4: And sometimes if you hit the ballped end of the bat,

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Speaker 4: that cup area would actually be indented. Guys would still

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Speaker 4: use the bat as long as the piece of wood

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Speaker 4: stayed intact. Thinner handle, thicker handles, thicker and thinner heads

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Speaker 4: on the bat case seventy five K fifty five. Back

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Speaker 4: in the day, the Mickey manno bats, or you could

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Speaker 4: go back to the m Ones, the Jackie Robinson that

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Speaker 4: almost you could use from either end that the head

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Speaker 4: of the bat was a stick as the handle of

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Speaker 4: the bat are forty three.

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Speaker 2: He goes the Hank Aaron model on and on.

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Speaker 4: Reggie Jackson an RJ forty four at Rondack, which I

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Speaker 4: used in coming out of college, all different land sizes fields.

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Speaker 4: I like the heavier back because I wasn't a home

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Speaker 4: run hitter, but I could. I felt this dope. I

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Speaker 4: just got the barrel of the ball. It would come

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Speaker 4: off hotter and I could manipulate and use the ball

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Speaker 4: with the whole field. So this is my point is

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Speaker 4: this has been going on forever, and so now with

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Speaker 4: this new torpedo bat, the bottle bat, whatever you want

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Speaker 4: to call it, I get it and I understand it.

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Speaker 4: It's always about, like you're saying with the golf gig.

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Speaker 4: I didn't realize to what extent these shafts make a

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Speaker 4: difference until I've started experimenting with different ones. Wow, there's

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Speaker 4: a tremendous difference in feel and performance. And like you said,

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Speaker 4: based on my body, my swing, my clubhead speed, how

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Speaker 4: I'm able to manipulate the clubhead through contact. So there's

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Speaker 4: even we could go on and on even more than that.

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Speaker 4: But I'm a big believer in all of this stuff.

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Speaker 4: Last point, even in the instructional leagues in the late eighties,

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Speaker 4: I brought ponds of machine. It's a machine that has

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Speaker 4: like this, these parallel wheels spinning and.

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Speaker 2: That they're very accurate.

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Speaker 4: And I got them, and I cut the legs down

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Speaker 4: to make sure that the release point was thirty six

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Speaker 4: inches off the ground and it was thirty three feet

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Speaker 4: from home plate, and I would make my hitters. This

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Speaker 4: is Tim Salmon, This is Damien Easy, This is Jimmy Edmonds,

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Speaker 4: This is Garrett Anderson, this is Todd Green thirty It

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Speaker 4: was thirty five thirty six and thirty five thirty six

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Speaker 4: ounce bats.

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Speaker 2: That they were not permitted to choke up.

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Speaker 4: And I put duct tape on the end of the

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Speaker 4: bat in the sweet spot. And the point was I

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Speaker 4: was trying and this was high velost. He was the

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Speaker 4: equipment of a ninety five mile hour fastball from thirty

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Speaker 4: three feet, which was about sixty sixty five miles an hour,

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Speaker 4: and I was trying to really incorporate or have them

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Speaker 4: use their hands and keep their body in their arms

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Speaker 4: out of it. I was trying to incorporate and promote

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Speaker 4: like getting top half inn half of the baseball, because

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Speaker 4: if you dipped your back shoulder at all, or today's

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Speaker 4: try to lift the ball, you would swing underneath it.

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Speaker 4: Did it in Major League camp Dave Winfield had a

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Speaker 4: really hard time. Remember the really elongated swing he had,

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Speaker 4: and remember Wally Joiner, Wallace Keith short and quick to

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Speaker 4: the ball. So I've been experimenting with these things forever.

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Speaker 4: So when I heard this long story short, I really

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Speaker 4: was intrigued, because, again, I believe all this stuff. I

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Speaker 4: believe the manipulation of the kind of bat, the handle,

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Speaker 4: the head of it, the weight, the ounces, and all

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Speaker 4: this stuff matters. So not a surprise to them at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a big innovation. Again, it's not for everybody.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it got a lot of attention obviously because

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Speaker 1: the Yankees, you know, went off on the weekend and

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Speaker 1: people were saying, well, what is that thing?

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Speaker 3: Nine of their fifteen home runs.

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Speaker 1: In the weekend against Milwaukee were hit with guys using

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Speaker 1: the torpedo bat. Now that dovetails with about you know,

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Speaker 1: five guys were using it, so fifty five percent of

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Speaker 1: their lineup hit sixty percent of their home runs, So

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Speaker 1: it makes sense. It wasn't like everybody who was using

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Speaker 1: the bat. But then we had La de la Cruz

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Speaker 1: go to a torpedo bat on Monday night for the

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Speaker 1: first time, and he went four to five with two

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Speaker 1: home runs the distance combined distance of eight one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty four feet. He's now a believer. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna see more people try this out. If you

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Speaker 1: want to look at the other side. Francisco Lindor started

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Speaker 1: the yar O for thirteen using the torpedo bat. So listen,

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Speaker 1: it's not a miracle bat. I don't want to go

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Speaker 1: that far, Joe, but I think for some people it

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Speaker 1: will make a difference.

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Speaker 3: And I know that it is spreading like wildfire.

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Speaker 1: Like the bat companies were putting torpedo bats out there

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Speaker 1: to buy as soon as Sunday night after because it

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Speaker 1: was the Yankees, obviously, because they were winning by such

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Speaker 1: huge margin with somebody home runs.

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Speaker 3: Its spread like wildfire.

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Speaker 1: So between one hundred ninety nine dollars and two hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty nine dollars, you can buy your kid a

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Speaker 1: torpedo bat, and they're taking advantage of that. I spoke

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Speaker 1: with someone who owns a part of a bat company,

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Speaker 1: and he said, we have to get this customization out

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Speaker 1: there in the travel ball industry. Now we're talking about

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars. You're gonna see this trickle down. There's

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Speaker 1: no question about it on the travel circuit, getting your

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Speaker 1: kid into a cage and get analyzed where he hits

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Speaker 1: the bat and what bat's going to suit him best.

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Speaker 1: The story I always to tell Joe about how things

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Speaker 1: have changed so much involves Derek Jeter. He gets drafted

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Speaker 1: out of high school, good player, obviously a first round pick,

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Speaker 1: but it always used a medal bat. So the Yankees

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Speaker 1: sent him to rookie camp in Tampa and he goes

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Speaker 1: to the minor league complex there.

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Speaker 3: He needs a bat.

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Speaker 1: Back then, you know, high school players were not using

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Speaker 1: wood bats in the summer.

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Speaker 3: It just didn't happen. So he's never used the wood

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Speaker 3: bat before.

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Speaker 1: He goes down to the Tampa facility and there's this

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Speaker 1: huge rack of bats and bins of bats there, and

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Speaker 1: he's got to figure out what bad.

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Speaker 3: Am I going to use?

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Speaker 1: Now I'm a pro, I can't use my metal bat.

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Speaker 1: But he found one shaped sort of like the metal

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Speaker 1: bat he'd been using in high school. Wait, probably similar. Basically,

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Speaker 1: he tried to find one most similar to his metal bat.

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Speaker 1: Do you know that Derek Jeter never used another model

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Speaker 1: his entire career. All three thousand plus hits were used

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Speaker 1: with that same bat. Totally by feel. Just pick up

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Speaker 1: the bat. It feels like the bat.

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Speaker 3: I used in high school. I'll use this one.

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Speaker 1: Is become so scientific now that yes, you will see

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Speaker 1: more torpedo bats, but no, they're not for everybody.

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Speaker 4: I love the word feel. I do love the word

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Speaker 4: film wanting my sweatshirt right now. Feel is the gift

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Speaker 4: of experience.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 4: Now the other side of all of this, with the

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Speaker 4: torpedo bet et cetera, I'm just curious.

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Speaker 2: I'm waiting to see.

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Speaker 4: It's going to take a little while here, but will

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Speaker 4: analytics change.

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Speaker 2: On these hitters?

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Speaker 4: Will the way they want to pictures want to picture

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Speaker 4: these hitters change. This is the first time you're hearing

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Speaker 4: anything that there may be an analytical advantage that's been

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Speaker 4: born to help the hitter. Because from the beginning we've

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Speaker 4: been talking about this, and I've been pounding on the

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Speaker 4: fact that the hitters have not been helped with this

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Speaker 4: analytical revolution at all. The defenses have the pictures have

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Speaker 4: all that other kind of stuff has I mean, pitching shape,

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Speaker 4: you know, episodas, all this Stuffye, just slowing things down,

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Speaker 4: that's all helped the picture. The hitter has gotten very

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Speaker 4: little out of this now with the change in the bat,

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Speaker 4: for instance, like we're talking about Volpe talking about having

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Speaker 4: the ball hit them up the hands too often want

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Speaker 4: to get the barrel closer.

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Speaker 2: To the hands that was.

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Speaker 4: Is analytics going to change because have left He's been

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Speaker 4: pounding him in with cutters and fastballs because they know

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Speaker 4: they can have right, He's been running two seamers in

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Speaker 4: on his hands because they know they can and they're

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Speaker 4: going to be rewarded. So is this bat going to

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Speaker 4: somehow cover that pitch now? And all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: the analytical concept of this hitter is going to change,

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Speaker 4: and how they're going to try to get him out

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Speaker 4: is going to change. So thus do we start going

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Speaker 4: away to the weaker part of this bats? The weaker

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Speaker 4: part of the bat has always.

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Speaker 2: Been a handle.

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Speaker 4: Now the handle is going to be the theoretically the

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Speaker 4: stronger part of the bat. So what does this mean

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Speaker 4: moving forward? I'm just curious as heck about that. I

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Speaker 4: think teaching inside the ball is going to be more

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Speaker 4: prominent now. Like I just talked about with the machine

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Speaker 4: that I had years ago, I wanted my guys to

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Speaker 4: focus on the top half, inter half of the ball.

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Speaker 4: We were always talking about line drives and hard ground

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Speaker 4: balls actually are not fly balls because flyballs were considered out.

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Speaker 4: So all I'm curious. It's one of those things that

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Speaker 4: create a shifting analytics. And again people have to understand

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Speaker 4: analytics is not pure and it's not this all knowing concept.

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Speaker 4: There's always there's always biased involved in analytics. So now

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Speaker 4: that there's there's a change in certain hitters based on

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Speaker 4: the kind of bath to us and how they're being rewarded,

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Speaker 4: the way to get them out may change.

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Speaker 2: Also.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point. We'll have to see.

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Speaker 1: But I do think the game changes more quickly than

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Speaker 1: it ever has. When you talk about you know, reactions

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Speaker 1: and reactions back again, based on analytics, these things happen.

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Speaker 3: You know, it used to happen on a yearly basis.

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Speaker 1: It's almost a daily basis, but certainly weekly or monthly

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Speaker 1: where they're reacting to the data. I think this is

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Speaker 1: a big innovation, Joe, because listen, bats have changed over

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Speaker 1: the years.

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Speaker 3: You know that you just mentioned a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: The axe handled bat, you know, the cupped end on

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Speaker 1: the bat probably dates to about the seventies or eighties.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but This is one of the first ones.

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Speaker 1: You also had the counterweight. You see some guys still

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Speaker 1: using it with that hockey puck style thing and the

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Speaker 1: huge nom at the at the end. But this is

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Speaker 1: one of the first ones and forever that actually changed

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Speaker 1: where the impacts the bat, right, It's not so much

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Speaker 1: about swinging the bat. It is, obviously because as you said,

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Speaker 1: it's about feel, and as Cody Bellinger said, the bat

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Speaker 1: feels better balanced to him. But you're talking about the

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Speaker 1: area where wood hits the baseball. That's the most important

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Speaker 1: thing in baseball, and this is a change to that area.

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Speaker 1: The only time I can remember this really, you know,

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Speaker 1: being in play, Joe, was you know, back in the

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Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties, people went to the maple

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Speaker 1: bats and then they would like triple lacquer them, right.

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Speaker 1: They had such a hard finish on them. It eventually

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Speaker 1: became illegal. I mean, it was just basically too good.

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Speaker 1: But it's Lacker upon Lacker upon Lacker, these hard maple bats.

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Speaker 1: That's the only one I can remember this. So this

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Speaker 1: is to me is a major change. And I know

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Speaker 1: bats have changed and evolved over the years of shapes,

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Speaker 1: the weights, and you did a good job hitting on

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Speaker 1: that Joe. But we need to see how this plays out.

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Speaker 1: We need more data hear about you know, is this

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Speaker 1: a huge advantage or not?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the maple bats, listen, I was all over that.

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Speaker 4: You remember they were exploding. Yeah, they're absolutely exploding.

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Speaker 1: Because let me just jump in maple bats. People don't

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Speaker 1: know that's the most dense kind of wood you can have.

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Speaker 3: Most bets. Way back when we're hickory, they was just

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Speaker 3: way too heavy.

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Speaker 1: I mean there were forty n's bets and then ash

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Speaker 1: became the most popular model, right, the big stick remember those?

352
00:15:20,718 --> 00:15:25,278
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you know, Northeastern ash was the popular bat.

353
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Speaker 1: It's a little bit lighter, and guys wanted bat speed.

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Speaker 1: But those broke and then they went to maple. As

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, it's the hardest, densest wood you can have.

356
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Speaker 1: It's just a solid hunk of wood. But guys were

357
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Speaker 1: having a thick barrel and a very thin handle with

358
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Speaker 1: all the way to the end. And yeah, you're right,

359
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Speaker 1: they were actually exploding. We don't see them as many.

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Speaker 1: They made some modifications to the size of a bat

361
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Speaker 1: and what's allowable in terms of the difference between handle

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Speaker 1: and barrel, But we don't see as many of those

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Speaker 1: shattering go ahead.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they were dangerous, man, I was really, I mean

365
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Speaker 4: it was. I remember actually was Derek Jeter at the

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Speaker 4: Yankee Stadium and he swings and he had a black

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Speaker 4: bat and he swings like had to be maple and

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Speaker 4: it's just broke in half. And I, you know, I

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Speaker 4: always stand, uh stand next to the uh as far

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Speaker 4: as close as I can't get the home plate on

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Speaker 4: that side of the dugout, and this thing came whirling back.

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Speaker 2: I never saw it. It was a black bat. At night,

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Speaker 2: you can't see it.

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Speaker 4: That's why check swings are very difficult from piers to

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Speaker 4: check with dark bats. Anyway, this thing comes back at

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Speaker 4: one hundred miles an hour. It seemed it hits the

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Speaker 4: wall right there.

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Speaker 2: I would have never I never saw that you could

379
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Speaker 2: have gotten paled with that so easily. I remember.

380
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Speaker 4: I remember talking to the the cub Is about like

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Speaker 4: putting up a net I said, why don't we have

382
00:16:37,998 --> 00:16:41,238
Speaker 4: more netting? Uh, you know, from around home plate and

383
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Speaker 4: then down towards the baselines because they were there, they

384
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Speaker 4: were breaking and actually they were there, there were projectiles.

385
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Speaker 4: But they eventually did was they put a black dot

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Speaker 4: on the bat on the maple bat. Apparently that's where

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Speaker 4: that that was supposed to be facing you. Somehow they

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Speaker 4: determined I guess the tensel strength wise whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah they see, uh yeah, that and the direction of

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Speaker 1: the grain exactly.

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Speaker 4: And then the other thing about babel bats crazy. I'd

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Speaker 4: stand behind home plate for batting practice, and let's say

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Speaker 4: a right handed hitter when he hit it on the

394
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Speaker 4: screws up the middle line drive between where the shortstop

395
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Speaker 4: stood and second base bag into the outfield, the ball

396
00:17:16,598 --> 00:17:19,918
Speaker 4: would knuckleball almost every time. And a left handed hitter,

397
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Speaker 4: same thing invp line drive up the middle from the

398
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Speaker 4: bag to the second baseman out into that short right

399
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Speaker 4: center field area.

400
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Speaker 2: Ballwood knuckleball.

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Speaker 4: So there wasn't as much spin on some of these

402
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Speaker 4: because the ball, like you're saying it was so darn hard,

403
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Speaker 4: whereas the ash bat would impart more spin. The the ashbat

404
00:17:36,518 --> 00:17:39,158
Speaker 4: also would chip on the top and the top of

405
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Speaker 4: the bat. You always look for the thickest grained ash

406
00:17:42,278 --> 00:17:43,838
Speaker 4: bat that you could find. If you had like thirteen

407
00:17:43,838 --> 00:17:46,118
Speaker 4: grains or less on an ashbat, man, you wanted to

408
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Speaker 4: keep that sucker as long as you could. That was

409
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Speaker 4: some seriously good wood. If it was really thinly grained wood,

410
00:17:52,078 --> 00:17:54,918
Speaker 4: you just knew it was going to disintegrate at some point.

411
00:17:55,038 --> 00:17:57,478
Speaker 4: But it was all different characteristics of the ball coming

412
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Speaker 4: off these different bats. When I was a kid, I

413
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Speaker 4: used to take a blowtorch out of my dad's shop.

414
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Speaker 4: I would rub a battery, I'm seriously a deep battery

415
00:18:05,398 --> 00:18:07,358
Speaker 4: over the top of my bat, and then I would

416
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Speaker 4: flame it myself in order to try to get the

417
00:18:09,398 --> 00:18:11,758
Speaker 4: bat harder at the top to prevent it from shipping

418
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Speaker 4: so they could use it long.

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Speaker 2: Right. We didn't buy We used wood back then. It

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Speaker 2: was no aluminum.

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Speaker 4: As a kid, so you have between that and brad

422
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Speaker 4: little nails to keep it alive with some glue and tape.

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Speaker 4: That's what we did. So listen, I've been on the

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Speaker 4: bat thing for a long time. I think it's interesting.

425
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Speaker 4: But like I said, now, my next point of curiosity

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Speaker 4: is will it now impact the analytical way to get

427
00:18:32,398 --> 00:18:35,438
Speaker 4: guys like Bulpy out. I'm curious to see what happens.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because you know,

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Speaker 1: I think this is in some ways response to I

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Speaker 1: see more same sided two seamers, Joe. I mean you

431
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Speaker 1: mentioned offsided cutters working in on left handed hitter is

432
00:18:48,758 --> 00:18:51,518
Speaker 1: right to left, but the right on right sinker. You

433
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Speaker 1: see a lot of pitchers picking that up.

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00:18:53,238 --> 00:18:53,398
Speaker 2: Now.

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00:18:53,438 --> 00:18:55,078
Speaker 1: I mean, we went through a stage where the four

436
00:18:55,118 --> 00:18:57,918
Speaker 1: steamer top of the zone played and played and played right.

437
00:18:58,038 --> 00:19:00,758
Speaker 3: That was a response to launch angle swings.

438
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Speaker 1: And now the compliment to that high force as guys

439
00:19:04,638 --> 00:19:06,878
Speaker 1: start looking out over the plate is the two seamer

440
00:19:06,998 --> 00:19:09,398
Speaker 1: that runs in on right handed hitters. And you see

441
00:19:09,598 --> 00:19:11,398
Speaker 1: Zach Wheeler is the best in the business at it.

442
00:19:11,838 --> 00:19:14,478
Speaker 1: You see guys with great fastballs like Wheeler and Bryce

443
00:19:14,558 --> 00:19:18,558
Speaker 1: Miller and Joe Ryan, they're adding sinkers because that'll keep

444
00:19:18,718 --> 00:19:19,998
Speaker 1: the right handed hitter honest.

445
00:19:20,038 --> 00:19:21,358
Speaker 3: So I looked at this.

446
00:19:21,478 --> 00:19:24,878
Speaker 1: Joe Volti actually was really good on sinkers last year

447
00:19:24,958 --> 00:19:26,718
Speaker 1: hit three twenty one. He's more of a low ball

448
00:19:26,798 --> 00:19:28,798
Speaker 1: hitter than a high ball hitter anyway. But here's the

449
00:19:28,838 --> 00:19:32,318
Speaker 1: what caught my eye. In twenty nineteen, same sided sinkers

450
00:19:32,398 --> 00:19:35,078
Speaker 1: we're talking about, right on right sinkers came in in

451
00:19:35,158 --> 00:19:37,398
Speaker 1: an average of ninety two point eight miles an hour.

452
00:19:37,758 --> 00:19:39,798
Speaker 1: Well last year that average was up to ninety four

453
00:19:39,838 --> 00:19:43,958
Speaker 1: point one right and in twenty nineteen, the average on

454
00:19:44,078 --> 00:19:47,438
Speaker 1: right on right sinkers was too eighty eight. Last year

455
00:19:47,478 --> 00:19:50,198
Speaker 1: it was down the two forty one. I mean that's

456
00:19:50,238 --> 00:19:54,758
Speaker 1: only six years, Joe. Where that right handed to right

457
00:19:54,798 --> 00:19:58,318
Speaker 1: handed batter sinker is becoming not just hey, let me

458
00:19:58,318 --> 00:20:00,518
Speaker 1: get a ground ball or you know, show him something

459
00:20:00,598 --> 00:20:03,198
Speaker 1: inside so I can work away. That's becoming a go

460
00:20:03,278 --> 00:20:07,238
Speaker 1: to pitch. That's become a weapon. So I'm with you,

461
00:20:07,358 --> 00:20:09,678
Speaker 1: I'm metioned. Does this now open up the outside part

462
00:20:09,678 --> 00:20:11,838
Speaker 1: of the plate and we're going to see more guys

463
00:20:11,878 --> 00:20:14,318
Speaker 1: trying to guys with torpedo bats. We'll see more pitches

464
00:20:14,358 --> 00:20:16,398
Speaker 1: away to see if they can cover that pitch.

465
00:20:16,718 --> 00:20:17,558
Speaker 3: Curious to see.

466
00:20:18,118 --> 00:20:19,598
Speaker 2: Let me see if I could describe this right.

467
00:20:19,638 --> 00:20:21,558
Speaker 4: I mean, the fact that it went down is that

468
00:20:21,638 --> 00:20:24,718
Speaker 4: because hitters have been trying to adjust hitting the elevated fastball.

469
00:20:25,318 --> 00:20:27,358
Speaker 4: In otherwords, they have they changed their swing in this sense,

470
00:20:27,358 --> 00:20:29,718
Speaker 4: and now they're where they were more able to get

471
00:20:29,718 --> 00:20:31,798
Speaker 4: to this sinker lower down and in I know, there's

472
00:20:31,798 --> 00:20:34,398
Speaker 4: a difference in velocity, but now all of a sudden

473
00:20:34,478 --> 00:20:37,958
Speaker 4: they're changing their hack and now they've been trying to

474
00:20:38,038 --> 00:20:40,358
Speaker 4: catch up with elevated fastball dust, this becomes a more

475
00:20:40,358 --> 00:20:40,918
Speaker 4: difficult pitch.

476
00:20:40,918 --> 00:20:41,958
Speaker 2: I'll go back to Darren Nursey.

477
00:20:41,958 --> 00:20:44,398
Speaker 1: It could be, but I'll just go to Vello. I mean, yes,

478
00:20:44,518 --> 00:20:46,558
Speaker 1: of course, i'ming in ninety two point eight. Now it's

479
00:20:46,598 --> 00:20:49,398
Speaker 1: up to ninety four point one. And with this, as

480
00:20:49,398 --> 00:20:51,358
Speaker 1: you mentioned that these labs, the way they can shape

481
00:20:51,358 --> 00:20:54,878
Speaker 1: these pitches, I think it's just become a better pitch.

482
00:20:55,598 --> 00:20:57,638
Speaker 1: Like everything else these days, it seems.

483
00:20:57,558 --> 00:21:00,198
Speaker 4: I've seen darrener I love, by the way, Darrenurse. That's

484
00:21:00,198 --> 00:21:02,558
Speaker 4: one of my favorite players of all time. Ersty if

485
00:21:02,598 --> 00:21:05,038
Speaker 4: you remember he had that and thirty nine whatever he

486
00:21:05,078 --> 00:21:07,718
Speaker 4: hit season I think was two thirty nine. Yeah, Ersty

487
00:21:08,198 --> 00:21:11,398
Speaker 4: was the best backspinner of a baseball I've ever been around.

488
00:21:11,558 --> 00:21:13,318
Speaker 4: I mean, as a coach, I made he want up

489
00:21:13,358 --> 00:21:17,278
Speaker 4: until present time. He hit the most vicious line drives

490
00:21:17,278 --> 00:21:19,358
Speaker 4: back up the middle I've ever seen when he came

491
00:21:19,398 --> 00:21:22,558
Speaker 4: out of Nebraska. But what happened was because to do

492
00:21:22,598 --> 00:21:24,798
Speaker 4: that you have to have a real flat bat, stay

493
00:21:24,838 --> 00:21:26,518
Speaker 4: inside the ball, really get to the top half of

494
00:21:26,558 --> 00:21:26,758
Speaker 4: the ball.

495
00:21:26,798 --> 00:21:28,238
Speaker 2: They were killing them underneath.

496
00:21:28,318 --> 00:21:32,238
Speaker 4: They were throwing breaking balls underneath, opposite side, breaking ball underneath,

497
00:21:32,438 --> 00:21:35,478
Speaker 4: two seamers underneath. All this stuff started happening underneath, so

498
00:21:35,918 --> 00:21:38,078
Speaker 4: he started adjusting to try to pull that ball, which

499
00:21:38,158 --> 00:21:40,238
Speaker 4: kind of like I didn't like, only because I thought

500
00:21:40,238 --> 00:21:42,878
Speaker 4: it would change this beautiful swing that he had, and

501
00:21:43,038 --> 00:21:45,998
Speaker 4: eventually it did because he started protecting against that and

502
00:21:46,038 --> 00:21:48,118
Speaker 4: he's better able to handle that pitch. If you look

503
00:21:48,118 --> 00:21:49,798
Speaker 4: at the home run he hit in the two thousand

504
00:21:49,838 --> 00:21:51,638
Speaker 4: and two World Series. That was a big hit to

505
00:21:51,758 --> 00:21:53,878
Speaker 4: right field that I think put us or tied the

506
00:21:53,878 --> 00:21:56,798
Speaker 4: game for us. But he lost that ability to drive

507
00:21:56,838 --> 00:21:58,798
Speaker 4: the ball back through the middle. So you always have

508
00:21:58,918 --> 00:22:01,478
Speaker 4: to be wary of Okay, when you make kind of

509
00:22:01,558 --> 00:22:05,158
Speaker 4: adjustments to cover a weakness, at some point, do you

510
00:22:05,238 --> 00:22:08,118
Speaker 4: lose your strength. That's always something that's always been in

511
00:22:08,118 --> 00:22:10,998
Speaker 4: the back of my mind, and it's a very interesting question.

512
00:22:11,118 --> 00:22:13,158
Speaker 2: Last point, Mario Rivera.

513
00:22:13,358 --> 00:22:15,078
Speaker 4: He shows you what a cutter can do to the

514
00:22:15,118 --> 00:22:17,678
Speaker 4: opposite side hitter, and they said it was great against

515
00:22:17,718 --> 00:22:20,078
Speaker 4: righties too. Don't get me wrong, but this guy was

516
00:22:20,118 --> 00:22:22,998
Speaker 4: a buzzsaw against lefties, and you know that was something

517
00:22:23,038 --> 00:22:25,518
Speaker 4: that we noticed early on. Obviously, then he played out,

518
00:22:25,518 --> 00:22:28,638
Speaker 4: but I would just curiously, if this bat was more

519
00:22:28,678 --> 00:22:31,318
Speaker 4: prominent than he still would have been great, no doubt,

520
00:22:31,318 --> 00:22:35,038
Speaker 4: But would there have been more success against him left

521
00:22:35,038 --> 00:22:38,398
Speaker 4: handed hitter wise, only because now that that really weak

522
00:22:38,438 --> 00:22:41,878
Speaker 4: part of the bat became stronger. And that just a

523
00:22:41,958 --> 00:22:44,758
Speaker 4: curiosity thought that I would have based on all the

524
00:22:44,798 --> 00:22:46,358
Speaker 4: information we're talking about.

525
00:22:46,558 --> 00:22:49,518
Speaker 1: Bottom line on torpedo bats, it is a major innovation.

526
00:22:49,958 --> 00:22:52,518
Speaker 1: It's not for everybody. I don't think it's going to

527
00:22:52,638 --> 00:22:55,598
Speaker 1: change the game. It will enhance some guys hitting, There's

528
00:22:55,638 --> 00:22:57,678
Speaker 1: no question about it. It's just a matter of fit

529
00:22:57,758 --> 00:23:00,838
Speaker 1: for a lot of guys. And it definitely is going

530
00:23:00,878 --> 00:23:04,758
Speaker 1: to be a boom to the bat making business is

531
00:23:04,998 --> 00:23:07,598
Speaker 1: just going. It's gonna spread like wildfire, There's no question

532
00:23:07,678 --> 00:23:08,118
Speaker 1: about it.

533
00:23:08,398 --> 00:23:10,438
Speaker 4: Last point that back in the day, they made aluminum

534
00:23:10,478 --> 00:23:12,598
Speaker 4: bats like that, and I I brought it up yesterday.

535
00:23:12,598 --> 00:23:14,398
Speaker 4: Also the old Tennessee thumper and.

536
00:23:15,158 --> 00:23:17,198
Speaker 3: That Yeah, yeah, I used to think that was illegal.

537
00:23:17,278 --> 00:23:18,838
Speaker 3: That looked like an enormous barrel.

538
00:23:19,238 --> 00:23:22,238
Speaker 2: Dude, Well you caught you as a catcher.

539
00:23:22,278 --> 00:23:24,598
Speaker 4: If somebody came up there and used that bat, the

540
00:23:24,638 --> 00:23:29,358
Speaker 4: sound that made was deafening. Anytime somebody made contact, your

541
00:23:29,398 --> 00:23:31,758
Speaker 4: ears would ring literally and actually would hurt.

542
00:23:32,078 --> 00:23:33,758
Speaker 2: There was such a different But I'll tell you what

543
00:23:33,998 --> 00:23:36,078
Speaker 2: I did. I used it in nineteen eighty and the.

544
00:23:36,358 --> 00:23:38,798
Speaker 4: When I was playing for Boulder after I'd been released professionally,

545
00:23:38,878 --> 00:23:41,078
Speaker 4: I was playing in a bolder collegiate in the summer league,

546
00:23:41,078 --> 00:23:42,638
Speaker 4: and I picked up one of these things. God did

547
00:23:42,638 --> 00:23:44,798
Speaker 4: the ball jump off of those. I was actually a

548
00:23:44,838 --> 00:23:48,198
Speaker 4: power hitter, although Boulder, Colorado always helps that, but there

549
00:23:48,238 --> 00:23:51,998
Speaker 4: was such a difference. So the bottle bat torpedo bat theory,

550
00:23:52,038 --> 00:23:54,558
Speaker 4: it's been a big thing in softball and actually Little

551
00:23:54,598 --> 00:23:55,598
Speaker 4: league bats in the past.

552
00:23:55,638 --> 00:23:56,918
Speaker 2: Now it's being caught up with wood.

553
00:23:57,398 --> 00:23:58,918
Speaker 3: Well, there was a lot of news for the first

554
00:23:58,958 --> 00:23:59,598
Speaker 3: week of the season.

555
00:23:59,678 --> 00:23:59,798
Speaker 2: Joe.

556
00:23:59,878 --> 00:24:01,838
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, but there's a

557
00:24:01,838 --> 00:24:03,918
Speaker 1: couple of guys who made some news that they'd rather

558
00:24:03,958 --> 00:24:09,158
Speaker 1: they're not be making, and that's Rafael Devers and Jerrickson

559
00:24:09,278 --> 00:24:10,718
Speaker 1: Profar and.

560
00:24:10,598 --> 00:24:12,638
Speaker 3: We will dive into those headlines.

561
00:24:12,198 --> 00:24:12,718
Speaker 2: Right after this.

562
00:24:24,998 --> 00:24:26,438
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

563
00:24:27,478 --> 00:24:27,638
Speaker 2: Joe.

564
00:24:27,678 --> 00:24:29,158
Speaker 3: I should have brought this up. We were talking about

565
00:24:29,198 --> 00:24:29,558
Speaker 3: the bats.

566
00:24:29,558 --> 00:24:31,918
Speaker 1: I think they should start looking into the size of

567
00:24:31,958 --> 00:24:35,878
Speaker 1: the outfielders' gloves. Have you noticed they've gotten biggert. I mean,

568
00:24:35,878 --> 00:24:37,758
Speaker 1: come on, there is a limit on the size of

569
00:24:37,758 --> 00:24:40,398
Speaker 1: the gloves because it got way out of hand, and

570
00:24:40,798 --> 00:24:42,678
Speaker 1: I think we're getting back to the situation where they

571
00:24:42,758 --> 00:24:44,238
Speaker 1: got to start pulling out the tape measure.

572
00:24:44,678 --> 00:24:48,958
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the Willie Mays the basket catch famous. These

573
00:24:48,998 --> 00:24:51,678
Speaker 4: guys are all incorporating the basket catch.

574
00:24:51,718 --> 00:24:52,678
Speaker 2: Now it is that large.

575
00:24:53,478 --> 00:24:57,918
Speaker 1: Hey, I mentioned Rafael Devers and it's I'm curious your

576
00:24:57,958 --> 00:24:59,958
Speaker 1: take on what's going on here. We know about the

577
00:24:59,998 --> 00:25:02,598
Speaker 1: story in spring training, right they signed Alex Bragman to

578
00:25:02,598 --> 00:25:03,758
Speaker 1: play third base.

579
00:25:03,518 --> 00:25:06,118
Speaker 3: But announce he was immediately the third baseman.

580
00:25:06,238 --> 00:25:09,078
Speaker 1: Instead, they had Rafael Devers say, Hey, I'm a third baseman.

581
00:25:09,118 --> 00:25:10,158
Speaker 3: I'm not going anywhere.

582
00:25:11,558 --> 00:25:14,838
Speaker 1: It took for me way too long for the Red

583
00:25:14,878 --> 00:25:17,118
Speaker 1: Sox to say the obvious that they're a much better

584
00:25:17,118 --> 00:25:19,118
Speaker 1: team with Alex pregnant at the third base in Rafael

585
00:25:19,158 --> 00:25:23,278
Speaker 1: Devers as the DH. But clearly Joe Rafael Devers in

586
00:25:23,358 --> 00:25:27,318
Speaker 1: his mind has not accepted this move. And to me,

587
00:25:27,478 --> 00:25:31,798
Speaker 1: these moves don't work unless and until the player buys in.

588
00:25:31,918 --> 00:25:34,358
Speaker 1: And the Red Sox have a player who's one of

589
00:25:34,398 --> 00:25:36,798
Speaker 1: their franchise players, he's one of the great hitters in

590
00:25:36,838 --> 00:25:40,398
Speaker 1: the game, and he clearly has not bought in. He

591
00:25:40,478 --> 00:25:45,318
Speaker 1: has started this season worse than really basically anybody in history, Joe.

592
00:25:45,358 --> 00:25:51,038
Speaker 1: He is oh for nineteen with fifteen strikeouts. I mean,

593
00:25:51,478 --> 00:25:53,358
Speaker 1: no one has struck out in the past more than

594
00:25:53,398 --> 00:25:55,398
Speaker 1: thirteen times in the first five games.

595
00:25:55,758 --> 00:25:57,838
Speaker 3: That was a record set by Pat Burrow and match

596
00:25:57,958 --> 00:25:59,558
Speaker 3: by Bybran Buxton.

597
00:26:00,398 --> 00:26:03,518
Speaker 1: Gary Sanchez once went over for fifteen with ten strikeouts

598
00:26:03,518 --> 00:26:09,158
Speaker 1: to start the year, but over nineteen with fifteen strikeouts.

599
00:26:09,558 --> 00:26:10,878
Speaker 3: I mean, this is amazing.

600
00:26:11,078 --> 00:26:14,478
Speaker 1: His whifth rate went swinging at a fastball is seventy

601
00:26:14,598 --> 00:26:18,038
Speaker 1: five percent. I mean he swings and misses seventy five

602
00:26:18,038 --> 00:26:22,198
Speaker 1: percent of the time he swings at a fastball. I mean, listen,

603
00:26:22,318 --> 00:26:26,318
Speaker 1: I can't get inside his head, Joe, but I mean physically,

604
00:26:26,478 --> 00:26:29,438
Speaker 1: there's obviously something wrong. I know he had shoulder issues

605
00:26:29,518 --> 00:26:31,758
Speaker 1: last year, didn't play a lot in spring training. Lack

606
00:26:31,798 --> 00:26:34,238
Speaker 1: of plate appearances maybe has something to do with this.

607
00:26:34,838 --> 00:26:37,678
Speaker 1: But he's just not getting to the baseball. He has

608
00:26:37,878 --> 00:26:39,398
Speaker 1: no timing whatsoever.

609
00:26:39,798 --> 00:26:41,638
Speaker 2: Yeah. I watched a couple at Batch yesterday.

610
00:26:41,638 --> 00:26:44,078
Speaker 4: I was just curious and filed off a couple of

611
00:26:44,158 --> 00:26:47,678
Speaker 4: fastballs and then really way out in front of an

612
00:26:47,678 --> 00:26:48,438
Speaker 4: offbeat pitch.

613
00:26:49,278 --> 00:26:49,518
Speaker 1: Yeah.

614
00:26:49,758 --> 00:26:51,678
Speaker 4: And I also read which is just mentioned, which I

615
00:26:51,678 --> 00:26:53,558
Speaker 4: found curious. I mean the fact that he had his

616
00:26:53,558 --> 00:26:55,318
Speaker 4: shoulders had bothered him so much at the end of

617
00:26:55,398 --> 00:26:59,558
Speaker 4: last year, and that apparently began measuring bat speed. His

618
00:26:59,558 --> 00:27:01,438
Speaker 4: bat speed was down like four or five miles an

619
00:27:01,438 --> 00:27:03,638
Speaker 4: hour as over it would have been in the past.

620
00:27:04,078 --> 00:27:06,318
Speaker 4: For me, curiously, would that be all of a sudden

621
00:27:06,318 --> 00:27:08,198
Speaker 4: I got to start cheating to get it back up there.

622
00:27:08,198 --> 00:27:10,918
Speaker 4: When you start cheating because I can't get to the fastball,

623
00:27:10,958 --> 00:27:12,278
Speaker 4: then you get out in front of a breaking ball.

624
00:27:12,278 --> 00:27:15,398
Speaker 4: There's all kinds of things that multiply when you have

625
00:27:15,558 --> 00:27:16,718
Speaker 4: that kind of an issue.

626
00:27:16,918 --> 00:27:20,878
Speaker 2: I think I learned. I think you know, many years ago,

627
00:27:20,918 --> 00:27:21,398
Speaker 2: I read.

628
00:27:21,398 --> 00:27:24,398
Speaker 4: A book about the was it halber Strum the nineteen

629
00:27:24,438 --> 00:27:28,638
Speaker 4: sixty four Yankee Cardinals series, And in that Johnny Keene,

630
00:27:28,718 --> 00:27:33,078
Speaker 4: once the famous manager of the Cardinals, had question Ray

631
00:27:33,118 --> 00:27:38,118
Speaker 4: Sideki's desire, you know, is intensity with playing and did

632
00:27:38,198 --> 00:27:43,558
Speaker 4: he care enough? And as it came out, eventually Sideki

633
00:27:43,598 --> 00:27:46,598
Speaker 4: walked into his office and said, listen, you could you

634
00:27:46,598 --> 00:27:48,358
Speaker 4: could tell me I stink, You could tell me that

635
00:27:48,358 --> 00:27:51,118
Speaker 4: I'm not pitching while playing well whatever, but don't never

636
00:27:51,158 --> 00:27:52,038
Speaker 4: attack my heart.

637
00:27:52,238 --> 00:27:54,558
Speaker 2: You just don't know. And that really taught me a lesson.

638
00:27:54,598 --> 00:27:56,998
Speaker 4: So in this situation, I'm going to give Devers a

639
00:27:56,998 --> 00:27:59,398
Speaker 4: break right here, because I don't know the kid, and

640
00:27:59,438 --> 00:28:01,478
Speaker 4: I have to believe, first of all, they did do

641
00:28:01,518 --> 00:28:03,398
Speaker 4: the right thing. They should have been They should have

642
00:28:03,398 --> 00:28:05,638
Speaker 4: been handled from like you said, the very first day,

643
00:28:05,958 --> 00:28:08,998
Speaker 4: it was obvious. There's no there's nothing non obvious about this,

644
00:28:09,358 --> 00:28:11,878
Speaker 4: the fact that this Bregman belongs to the third this kid,

645
00:28:12,198 --> 00:28:15,358
Speaker 4: either First Space or DH whatever. So yeah, there's gonna

646
00:28:15,358 --> 00:28:18,518
Speaker 4: be there's gonna be some you know, settling in, getting

647
00:28:18,598 --> 00:28:20,118
Speaker 4: over it kind of a thing. But they've had all

648
00:28:20,158 --> 00:28:21,918
Speaker 4: camp to do that, and there had to be a

649
00:28:21,998 --> 00:28:24,838
Speaker 4: thousand different conversations with him, to the point that it

650
00:28:24,918 --> 00:28:26,878
Speaker 4: might have got annoying to DeBras and whomever.

651
00:28:27,438 --> 00:28:30,158
Speaker 2: But I just think, give it a little time right here.

652
00:28:30,278 --> 00:28:32,358
Speaker 4: I don't know him. I don't know what the Batsby

653
00:28:32,478 --> 00:28:35,238
Speaker 4: looks like in person. I even mentioned yesterday I thought

654
00:28:35,278 --> 00:28:37,918
Speaker 4: he looked bigger on but you know TV, can you know,

655
00:28:37,958 --> 00:28:40,638
Speaker 4: play some tricks. I just thought he looked bigger. You

656
00:28:40,638 --> 00:28:42,318
Speaker 4: don't know where his head is. I have to be

657
00:28:42,398 --> 00:28:43,678
Speaker 4: there and the dug. I'd have to be able to

658
00:28:43,678 --> 00:28:45,798
Speaker 4: talk to the kid eye to eye, and I got

659
00:28:45,798 --> 00:28:47,838
Speaker 4: to know this kid before I understand whether or not

660
00:28:47,958 --> 00:28:52,238
Speaker 4: I believe he truly is sulking, or if in fact,

661
00:28:52,238 --> 00:28:55,198
Speaker 4: there's something else at work right here, easy to point

662
00:28:55,198 --> 00:28:56,998
Speaker 4: fingers at the fact that he might be sulking.

663
00:28:57,518 --> 00:28:58,638
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you, Joe.

664
00:28:58,718 --> 00:29:00,238
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a tough place to go to try

665
00:29:00,278 --> 00:29:02,838
Speaker 1: to get inside anybody's head. But it's clear if you

666
00:29:02,838 --> 00:29:04,678
Speaker 1: look at video between life ye in this year, he's

667
00:29:04,678 --> 00:29:05,358
Speaker 1: definitely bigger.

668
00:29:05,678 --> 00:29:06,758
Speaker 3: I mean, that's obvious.

669
00:29:06,838 --> 00:29:08,478
Speaker 1: Whether that has something to do with the hitting, I

670
00:29:08,518 --> 00:29:12,558
Speaker 1: don't know, but that's a physical thing that you can see.

671
00:29:12,678 --> 00:29:15,478
Speaker 1: Getting inside his head that's a lot more difficult. But

672
00:29:15,518 --> 00:29:17,438
Speaker 1: you're right about the bat speed. This is a guy

673
00:29:17,758 --> 00:29:20,198
Speaker 1: who was with above average bat speed. Last year he

674
00:29:20,238 --> 00:29:23,278
Speaker 1: was in the sixtieth percentile of bat speed, and this

675
00:29:23,398 --> 00:29:26,118
Speaker 1: year he's down to the thirty first percentile. That's a

676
00:29:26,118 --> 00:29:29,758
Speaker 1: pretty big drop, which you know, typically might tell you

677
00:29:29,798 --> 00:29:32,678
Speaker 1: that maybe physically he's not right, maybe the shoulders are barking.

678
00:29:32,758 --> 00:29:35,838
Speaker 1: I don't know, But I do know, Joe that you know,

679
00:29:35,958 --> 00:29:38,798
Speaker 1: for Alex Korrah was a great manager and that front office.

680
00:29:38,918 --> 00:29:40,078
Speaker 3: This is a problem.

681
00:29:40,518 --> 00:29:43,838
Speaker 1: This, you know, begins to you know, really manifest itself

682
00:29:43,878 --> 00:29:47,198
Speaker 1: in how he's playing. If he's uncomfortable with dhing, you know,

683
00:29:47,318 --> 00:29:49,278
Speaker 1: because there is something of a learning curve to being

684
00:29:49,318 --> 00:29:51,638
Speaker 1: a DH when you've been a position player your whole career.

685
00:29:52,598 --> 00:29:55,198
Speaker 1: If he hasn't bought in, that's that's the scariest thing

686
00:29:55,278 --> 00:29:58,638
Speaker 1: for me. That might never come if he feels like

687
00:29:59,198 --> 00:30:01,638
Speaker 1: this is some sort of demotion or you know, they

688
00:30:01,718 --> 00:30:03,718
Speaker 1: think less of him in this regard. He put in

689
00:30:03,758 --> 00:30:06,478
Speaker 1: all his work to make himself into you know, it's

690
00:30:06,478 --> 00:30:08,518
Speaker 1: hard to even say a decent third basement because he

691
00:30:08,558 --> 00:30:11,758
Speaker 1: really was the worst fielding third baseman, but he did

692
00:30:11,838 --> 00:30:14,718
Speaker 1: work at it. I'll give him credit for that. So

693
00:30:14,798 --> 00:30:17,118
Speaker 1: you've got a problem if your Boston. If this thing lingers,

694
00:30:17,398 --> 00:30:20,638
Speaker 1: you know, maybe this is much farther down the road.

695
00:30:20,958 --> 00:30:23,238
Speaker 1: You call up a team like Seattle and try to

696
00:30:23,238 --> 00:30:25,118
Speaker 1: work out a deal, a team that needs offense and

697
00:30:25,158 --> 00:30:27,718
Speaker 1: has a surplus if you will of pitching and get

698
00:30:27,718 --> 00:30:28,798
Speaker 1: one of their starting pitchers.

699
00:30:28,838 --> 00:30:29,478
Speaker 3: I don't know.

700
00:30:29,798 --> 00:30:32,758
Speaker 1: I just I'm trying to see the end game here, Joe,

701
00:30:32,838 --> 00:30:36,558
Speaker 1: and where it starts is getting rock Field Devors to

702
00:30:36,638 --> 00:30:40,078
Speaker 1: buy into this is the best thing for his career

703
00:30:40,238 --> 00:30:41,718
Speaker 1: is to be the DH on this team.

704
00:30:41,918 --> 00:30:44,838
Speaker 4: I mean, I know, obviously Alex has had conversations with

705
00:30:44,958 --> 00:30:47,318
Speaker 4: him and the people there, so they know where he's

706
00:30:47,358 --> 00:30:50,918
Speaker 4: at mentally, physically, whatever. They know better than we know. Now,

707
00:30:51,518 --> 00:30:53,518
Speaker 4: this is the like epically the one of the worst

708
00:30:53,518 --> 00:30:55,758
Speaker 4: starts ever. And this might sound absolutely nuts, but I

709
00:30:55,758 --> 00:30:58,838
Speaker 4: would give him a different thought process to work with. If,

710
00:30:58,838 --> 00:31:00,878
Speaker 4: in fact, I believe you know this is just wow,

711
00:31:01,678 --> 00:31:04,918
Speaker 4: he has lost in bat speed, shoulders, she hasn't gotten

712
00:31:04,958 --> 00:31:07,478
Speaker 4: all this strength level back whatever, believe it or not,

713
00:31:07,518 --> 00:31:09,518
Speaker 4: I would ask him the lead off. I would ask

714
00:31:09,598 --> 00:31:11,398
Speaker 4: him the lead off, and I said, I would then

715
00:31:11,478 --> 00:31:14,038
Speaker 4: take the onus off your hitting in a sense and say, listen,

716
00:31:14,438 --> 00:31:15,958
Speaker 4: the biggest thing I want you to do is work

717
00:31:15,998 --> 00:31:19,838
Speaker 4: on getting on base except your walks. Narrow your strike

718
00:31:19,958 --> 00:31:22,758
Speaker 4: zone down a bit, try try easier, use the whole field.

719
00:31:23,038 --> 00:31:24,558
Speaker 4: Just try to hit singles for a couple of weeks

720
00:31:24,598 --> 00:31:26,478
Speaker 4: and just see if you get yourself going again. I

721
00:31:26,518 --> 00:31:28,318
Speaker 4: would go in that direction. When I had good hitters,

722
00:31:28,358 --> 00:31:30,638
Speaker 4: like really good hitters, I would go. I would go

723
00:31:30,678 --> 00:31:32,838
Speaker 4: in that direction as opposed to knocking them down in

724
00:31:32,878 --> 00:31:33,598
Speaker 4: the batting order.

725
00:31:34,838 --> 00:31:36,198
Speaker 2: Again, I don't know everything.

726
00:31:36,518 --> 00:31:39,278
Speaker 4: This is if if I had a conversation with him,

727
00:31:39,278 --> 00:31:42,078
Speaker 4: and I all the different points were satiated, and I

728
00:31:42,158 --> 00:31:44,718
Speaker 4: felt like, you know, no, he's okay, he's on board.

729
00:31:44,758 --> 00:31:47,958
Speaker 4: He's just things are not right coming off his shoulder issue.

730
00:31:48,038 --> 00:31:50,838
Speaker 4: Right now, he definitely is into the team. We're going

731
00:31:50,918 --> 00:31:53,678
Speaker 4: to try to get this thing rowing. Put him on top.

732
00:31:53,878 --> 00:31:55,518
Speaker 4: Singles and walks, That's all I want you to be

733
00:31:55,518 --> 00:31:58,198
Speaker 4: concerned with right now. Singles and walks, get on base

734
00:31:58,198 --> 00:32:00,518
Speaker 4: as often as you can, and then let's roll from there.

735
00:32:00,678 --> 00:32:03,198
Speaker 4: I would go in that direction first before I considered

736
00:32:03,198 --> 00:32:03,758
Speaker 4: anything else.

737
00:32:04,198 --> 00:32:06,318
Speaker 1: What's really interesting is you look at his numbers, and

738
00:32:06,318 --> 00:32:08,038
Speaker 1: again it's a very small sample size.

739
00:32:08,598 --> 00:32:10,398
Speaker 3: He has cut his chase rate in half.

740
00:32:11,678 --> 00:32:14,278
Speaker 1: Okay, he's the thirty four percent chase rate guy last year,

741
00:32:14,318 --> 00:32:18,038
Speaker 1: he's eighteen percent this year. Pitchers are coming right after

742
00:32:18,118 --> 00:32:19,318
Speaker 1: him with heaters in the zone.

743
00:32:19,438 --> 00:32:19,958
Speaker 2: But there you go.

744
00:32:20,198 --> 00:32:21,838
Speaker 3: He just not catching up to him.

745
00:32:21,878 --> 00:32:25,558
Speaker 1: But hey, maybe the answer is to try a torpedo bat.

746
00:32:25,918 --> 00:32:28,318
Speaker 2: Well, whatever, listen, this is what you do. It's all

747
00:32:28,358 --> 00:32:30,158
Speaker 2: about field, right, It's all about field.

748
00:32:30,198 --> 00:32:32,998
Speaker 4: Do something different, to keep doing the same thing over

749
00:32:33,038 --> 00:32:34,478
Speaker 4: and over again expecting a different result.

750
00:32:34,558 --> 00:32:35,438
Speaker 2: We know what that equals.

751
00:32:35,758 --> 00:32:38,718
Speaker 1: Well, speaking in bad weeks, the Atlanta Braves, it couldn't

752
00:32:38,718 --> 00:32:40,838
Speaker 1: start much worse, Joe, it couldn't win a game in

753
00:32:40,838 --> 00:32:43,318
Speaker 1: San Diego, lose the first game out in Los Angeles.

754
00:32:44,318 --> 00:32:47,118
Speaker 1: The Atlanta Braves, they're an interesting offensive team and have

755
00:32:47,198 --> 00:32:50,598
Speaker 1: been built this way. They slug, They swing it, man,

756
00:32:50,678 --> 00:32:53,438
Speaker 1: They'll chase pitches. They have swing and miss. They sign

757
00:32:53,518 --> 00:32:56,518
Speaker 1: up for a few more strikeouts to get the slug up.

758
00:32:56,798 --> 00:32:58,278
Speaker 3: That's how the Atlanta Breves roll.

759
00:32:58,558 --> 00:33:02,678
Speaker 1: They're hitting oh seventy eight against breaking pitches. They've seen

760
00:33:02,758 --> 00:33:05,678
Speaker 1: two hundred and four three five breaking pitches and they

761
00:33:05,678 --> 00:33:09,198
Speaker 1: have four hits. It's just amazing the way this team

762
00:33:09,278 --> 00:33:10,678
Speaker 1: is just cratered offensively.

763
00:33:10,758 --> 00:33:11,238
Speaker 3: To watch it.

764
00:33:11,318 --> 00:33:13,758
Speaker 1: I know they're still waiting on Ronald Lecunia Junior to

765
00:33:13,758 --> 00:33:17,398
Speaker 1: get back, but in the meantime, right now, Though Lopez,

766
00:33:17,438 --> 00:33:20,158
Speaker 1: their number two starter, is out with an inflamed shoulder.

767
00:33:20,158 --> 00:33:22,238
Speaker 1: He didn't look right all spring, didn't look right in

768
00:33:22,278 --> 00:33:24,838
Speaker 1: his first start, and sure enough he's hurt. You know,

769
00:33:24,878 --> 00:33:26,998
Speaker 1: he's won one of these guys who's transitioned from the

770
00:33:26,998 --> 00:33:29,718
Speaker 1: bullpen to the rotation. Had a great year last year,

771
00:33:29,758 --> 00:33:32,398
Speaker 1: but there's something not right with his shoulder. And then

772
00:33:32,438 --> 00:33:34,878
Speaker 1: on top of that, Jerkson Profar they signed him in

773
00:33:34,878 --> 00:33:38,398
Speaker 1: the off season three years forty two million dollars. He

774
00:33:38,478 --> 00:33:41,158
Speaker 1: was a bargain last year for the Padres as their

775
00:33:41,238 --> 00:33:43,398
Speaker 1: leadoff hitter leftfielder Jerkson Profar.

776
00:33:44,158 --> 00:33:46,318
Speaker 3: Turns out he gets busted out a ped test.

777
00:33:46,398 --> 00:33:50,198
Speaker 1: The test happened in spring training or in the offseason actually,

778
00:33:50,358 --> 00:33:53,118
Speaker 1: so he's gone for ninety days. If the Brays make

779
00:33:53,198 --> 00:33:55,718
Speaker 1: the playoffs, he was, he's ineligible to be on the

780
00:33:55,718 --> 00:33:58,958
Speaker 1: postseason roster because of this, and he was busted for

781
00:33:59,038 --> 00:34:02,838
Speaker 1: a substance called sure ionic Gone.

782
00:34:02,678 --> 00:34:04,758
Speaker 3: I'm gonna miss this up basically hCG.

783
00:34:04,958 --> 00:34:06,438
Speaker 2: I was waiting for you to try that. I saw,

784
00:34:06,478 --> 00:34:08,438
Speaker 2: I saw it written down. Good try.

785
00:34:10,078 --> 00:34:11,198
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hCG.

786
00:34:11,398 --> 00:34:15,558
Speaker 1: Basically, it's a fertility drug for females, but a lot

787
00:34:15,558 --> 00:34:17,878
Speaker 1: of bodybuilders will use it to offset some of the

788
00:34:17,918 --> 00:34:20,118
Speaker 1: side effects of using steroids.

789
00:34:20,438 --> 00:34:22,918
Speaker 3: It helps in the production of testosterone.

790
00:34:22,998 --> 00:34:26,918
Speaker 1: It diminishes some of the side effects of using steroids

791
00:34:26,958 --> 00:34:30,158
Speaker 1: such as gonna add shrinkage and infertility. So this is

792
00:34:30,198 --> 00:34:34,198
Speaker 1: something it's it's actually in a pregnancy test for women

793
00:34:34,238 --> 00:34:36,758
Speaker 1: where it will turn up because in pregnancy that chemical

794
00:34:36,758 --> 00:34:41,958
Speaker 1: will go up. But it's manufactured from hamster ovary cells

795
00:34:42,838 --> 00:34:46,678
Speaker 1: and it's injected and you got you know, Profar coming

796
00:34:46,678 --> 00:34:50,558
Speaker 1: out in the statement saying I would never knowingly do

797
00:34:50,718 --> 00:34:54,438
Speaker 1: anything to cheat the game. And you know, listen, we

798
00:34:54,478 --> 00:34:57,358
Speaker 1: hear these things all the time, Joe, I mean these guys.

799
00:34:57,678 --> 00:35:00,958
Speaker 3: One thing about this drug is a lot of at least.

800
00:35:00,718 --> 00:35:03,478
Speaker 1: People in competition, not just baseball, might use it because

801
00:35:03,518 --> 00:35:07,318
Speaker 1: it doesn't upset the te ratio too much. It is

802
00:35:07,318 --> 00:35:09,998
Speaker 1: a banned substance. It has been since the eighties. And

803
00:35:10,078 --> 00:35:13,118
Speaker 1: here he is gone for ninety days. Makes a question

804
00:35:13,398 --> 00:35:16,518
Speaker 1: the production before, makes a question what his production will

805
00:35:16,518 --> 00:35:20,158
Speaker 1: be coming back. That's a major hit for the Atlanta

806
00:35:20,198 --> 00:35:22,718
Speaker 1: Braves to lose their leadoff hitter or left fielder. He

807
00:35:22,998 --> 00:35:27,518
Speaker 1: just invested three years in this guy and he blows

808
00:35:27,518 --> 00:35:29,198
Speaker 1: a test even before the year starts.

809
00:35:29,598 --> 00:35:33,678
Speaker 2: Interesting Hampster research. Yeah, it is tough. My god, I

810
00:35:33,718 --> 00:35:34,718
Speaker 2: read that this morning.

811
00:35:34,918 --> 00:35:37,918
Speaker 4: I've liked this kid from my first song with Texas.

812
00:35:37,998 --> 00:35:40,198
Speaker 4: I thought, gosh, when he came up with the Rangers

813
00:35:40,278 --> 00:35:43,278
Speaker 4: years ago, I was pretty special, I thought. And I

814
00:35:43,318 --> 00:35:45,678
Speaker 4: know he kind of disappeared that he kind of resurfaced again.

815
00:35:46,758 --> 00:35:49,678
Speaker 4: So I hate reading this kind of stuff. I don't

816
00:35:49,758 --> 00:35:52,998
Speaker 4: like it because I don't know anything. Because I'm met

817
00:35:53,038 --> 00:35:54,678
Speaker 4: around these people. But this guy, to me is a

818
00:35:54,678 --> 00:35:57,998
Speaker 4: good baseball player regardless. He's very athletic, you know, very

819
00:35:58,078 --> 00:36:00,598
Speaker 4: quick twitch kind of a thing. His biggest problem was

820
00:36:00,638 --> 00:36:02,798
Speaker 4: on the infield, being accurate with his arm. He had

821
00:36:02,838 --> 00:36:04,878
Speaker 4: some issues there that I didn't really like, and I

822
00:36:04,878 --> 00:36:06,478
Speaker 4: thought he might have to move to the grass in

823
00:36:06,518 --> 00:36:11,438
Speaker 4: the outfield, which eventually has but really had some pop, speed,

824
00:36:11,918 --> 00:36:14,638
Speaker 4: light body, all that kind of stuff. And now you

825
00:36:14,718 --> 00:36:16,998
Speaker 4: got this, and then it really sets a pall over

826
00:36:17,038 --> 00:36:20,998
Speaker 4: the entire you know group. However, you know, moving it forward, man,

827
00:36:21,118 --> 00:36:23,558
Speaker 4: I the Braves have been able to been able to

828
00:36:23,558 --> 00:36:25,958
Speaker 4: overcome a lot of stuff over the last several years.

829
00:36:26,038 --> 00:36:28,558
Speaker 4: I anticipate they will again. But this one's different. I mean,

830
00:36:28,878 --> 00:36:30,878
Speaker 4: having a tough start right now, and they've played, you know,

831
00:36:31,518 --> 00:36:34,198
Speaker 4: a couple of pretty good teams and so what happened

832
00:36:34,278 --> 00:36:37,078
Speaker 4: last night for v Dodgers and you know, Glass now

833
00:36:37,118 --> 00:36:38,238
Speaker 4: look pretty good obviously.

834
00:36:38,318 --> 00:36:41,278
Speaker 2: So this is going to take a while to sort out.

835
00:36:41,278 --> 00:36:43,638
Speaker 4: But they have the culture set up there to fight

836
00:36:43,718 --> 00:36:44,678
Speaker 4: through it.

837
00:36:44,678 --> 00:36:45,638
Speaker 2: It'll be interesting.

838
00:36:45,958 --> 00:36:47,878
Speaker 4: But the division they're in is not going to permit

839
00:36:47,958 --> 00:36:50,478
Speaker 4: them to get too far behind too quickly, because it

840
00:36:50,518 --> 00:36:53,438
Speaker 4: makes it even more difficult to fight back.

841
00:36:53,918 --> 00:36:54,798
Speaker 3: That's a great point.

842
00:36:54,998 --> 00:36:56,998
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when you look at New York, you

843
00:36:56,998 --> 00:36:59,638
Speaker 1: look at Philadelphia, you know, I think those are ninety

844
00:36:59,678 --> 00:37:03,838
Speaker 1: plus win teams. So you can't you can't back in

845
00:37:03,958 --> 00:37:06,318
Speaker 1: to a playoff spot. To me, in the National League, especially,

846
00:37:06,358 --> 00:37:08,078
Speaker 1: the league is so deep, you're gonna have to go

847
00:37:08,198 --> 00:37:11,358
Speaker 1: ninety plus and profar. Listen, I don't want to hear,

848
00:37:11,398 --> 00:37:13,398
Speaker 1: as he said in his statement, that you had eight

849
00:37:13,478 --> 00:37:16,638
Speaker 1: tests last year and you passed them. That means absolutely nothing.

850
00:37:16,638 --> 00:37:18,678
Speaker 1: When I hear guys say that, Joe, I just rolled

851
00:37:18,718 --> 00:37:21,438
Speaker 1: my eyes. We're not talking about the times you got

852
00:37:21,478 --> 00:37:24,358
Speaker 1: away with tests last year, right, and they you know,

853
00:37:24,438 --> 00:37:27,798
Speaker 1: it's not like they're grabbing every single guy who's cheating.

854
00:37:28,358 --> 00:37:31,518
Speaker 1: You know, guys are using fact acting stuff, they're micro dosing.

855
00:37:31,958 --> 00:37:34,118
Speaker 1: There's ways that you can get around tests. You have

856
00:37:34,158 --> 00:37:37,078
Speaker 1: to be very careful and eventually you're going to get caught.

857
00:37:37,478 --> 00:37:41,318
Speaker 1: But when you protest that you were clean eight times

858
00:37:41,398 --> 00:37:43,638
Speaker 1: last year, that's a red flag to me.

859
00:37:43,798 --> 00:37:45,238
Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, to know.

860
00:37:45,238 --> 00:37:48,038
Speaker 4: You to know that you passed actually eight tests whatever,

861
00:37:48,718 --> 00:37:51,518
Speaker 4: that was all researched before he actually spoke to anybody.

862
00:37:51,598 --> 00:37:53,278
Speaker 4: This was all you know, he's got a lot of

863
00:37:53,278 --> 00:37:56,278
Speaker 4: people trying to help and support him right now. And again,

864
00:37:56,318 --> 00:37:58,518
Speaker 4: I don't know the kid. He seems like a bright kids.

865
00:37:58,878 --> 00:38:02,438
Speaker 4: It's just it's part of the culture. And then you listen,

866
00:38:02,558 --> 00:38:04,198
Speaker 4: you go back, you go back in time. I mean

867
00:38:04,198 --> 00:38:06,798
Speaker 4: when Greenies are big and that little red juice and

868
00:38:06,838 --> 00:38:09,358
Speaker 4: Dugouts was big, and all the different things that players

869
00:38:09,398 --> 00:38:10,238
Speaker 4: have done for years.

870
00:38:10,358 --> 00:38:11,558
Speaker 2: And I said.

871
00:38:11,438 --> 00:38:14,478
Speaker 4: I'm not advocating for it, but and a guy like him,

872
00:38:15,198 --> 00:38:17,958
Speaker 4: did he see what he perceived to be his abilities

873
00:38:18,078 --> 00:38:19,878
Speaker 4: slipping away a bit? Did he feel as though it

874
00:38:19,918 --> 00:38:21,918
Speaker 4: was worth the risk because if I don't do it,

875
00:38:21,958 --> 00:38:23,478
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be out of a job anyway. There's all

876
00:38:23,478 --> 00:38:25,758
Speaker 4: these different things that go into people's heads. And then

877
00:38:25,798 --> 00:38:28,478
Speaker 4: of course it's always about who is advising him. Got

878
00:38:28,598 --> 00:38:30,998
Speaker 4: to believe your agent knows something about this. I gotta

879
00:38:31,078 --> 00:38:32,678
Speaker 4: believe or somebody you.

880
00:38:32,638 --> 00:38:33,998
Speaker 2: Know that's that's within the group.

881
00:38:34,078 --> 00:38:37,118
Speaker 4: That it's hard to carry that thought alone, Like if

882
00:38:37,118 --> 00:38:39,038
Speaker 4: you're a profar to carry the thought alone that you

883
00:38:39,078 --> 00:38:41,558
Speaker 4: know you're doing this kind of stuff and without any

884
00:38:41,638 --> 00:38:43,718
Speaker 4: kind of support or reassurances and you're not gonna get

885
00:38:43,718 --> 00:38:45,598
Speaker 4: caught or you need to do this, because if you

886
00:38:45,638 --> 00:38:46,998
Speaker 4: don't you're going to be out of the game anyway.

887
00:38:47,198 --> 00:38:49,998
Speaker 4: So there's there's a there's almost like this, this group

888
00:38:50,078 --> 00:38:52,878
Speaker 4: a support group around him that I'd be curious about too,

889
00:38:52,878 --> 00:38:55,278
Speaker 4: because listen, if you're as an agent, if you're really

890
00:38:55,278 --> 00:38:57,478
Speaker 4: doing your job and you have any whiff of this whatsoever,

891
00:38:57,518 --> 00:38:59,278
Speaker 4: you really got to get the dude off of it

892
00:38:59,638 --> 00:39:02,118
Speaker 4: in order to sustain his career in that in that regard,

893
00:39:02,118 --> 00:39:04,518
Speaker 4: because like you said, you eventually going to get caught,

894
00:39:04,718 --> 00:39:07,118
Speaker 4: and he did. And it's too bad because I just

895
00:39:07,358 --> 00:39:09,078
Speaker 4: from a distance, he looks like a great kid.

896
00:39:09,358 --> 00:39:10,758
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's too bad for the Braves.

897
00:39:10,798 --> 00:39:13,518
Speaker 1: I mean, we're going to talk about this, Joe after

898
00:39:13,558 --> 00:39:15,758
Speaker 1: this quick break. I do want to ask you about

899
00:39:15,758 --> 00:39:18,718
Speaker 1: when you run. You're managing a team and you get

900
00:39:18,758 --> 00:39:21,358
Speaker 1: off to this kind of start, and of course it's early,

901
00:39:21,958 --> 00:39:24,758
Speaker 1: but you're trying to get the wheels back on the truck.

902
00:39:24,518 --> 00:39:26,478
Speaker 3: Here and get back on the road. How do you

903
00:39:26,518 --> 00:39:26,838
Speaker 3: do that?

904
00:39:27,158 --> 00:39:40,398
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that next on the Book of Joe.

905
00:39:42,118 --> 00:39:44,078
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. We're talking about

906
00:39:44,078 --> 00:39:49,118
Speaker 1: Brian Snicker's Atlanta Braves. The worst start imaginable starting pitcher

907
00:39:49,198 --> 00:39:51,638
Speaker 1: goes down, you're still waiting on Spencer Stryder and Ronald

908
00:39:51,678 --> 00:39:53,718
Speaker 1: the Cuney junior to come back. You're left fielder gets

909
00:39:53,718 --> 00:39:56,638
Speaker 1: busted for peds. He's out for ninety games. It's a

910
00:39:56,718 --> 00:39:58,958
Speaker 1: rough situation. You can't win a game on the West Coast,

911
00:39:58,998 --> 00:40:01,838
Speaker 1: by the way, you know, that's kind of the worst

912
00:40:01,838 --> 00:40:03,678
Speaker 1: thing for the Braves. You see the schedule come out

913
00:40:03,678 --> 00:40:06,278
Speaker 1: and like, oh, we're opening in California, San Diego, in LA.

914
00:40:06,438 --> 00:40:07,478
Speaker 3: We won't have to deal with.

915
00:40:07,438 --> 00:40:11,638
Speaker 1: Any weather, no cold temperatures. But there's no off days here.

916
00:40:11,718 --> 00:40:14,638
Speaker 1: The Braves like to use their pictures on the sixth day,

917
00:40:14,798 --> 00:40:17,558
Speaker 1: and they they're using Chris Sale on the fifth day here,

918
00:40:17,678 --> 00:40:20,998
Speaker 1: which they didn't do until mid season last year. And

919
00:40:21,038 --> 00:40:23,238
Speaker 1: when things go bad, you could use an off day.

920
00:40:23,638 --> 00:40:25,678
Speaker 1: But anyway, Joe, my question to you is your Brian

921
00:40:25,758 --> 00:40:29,158
Speaker 1: snicker and it listen. It's a veteran team, it's a

922
00:40:29,238 --> 00:40:31,638
Speaker 1: veteran staff. I mean, his coaching staff, they've they've been

923
00:40:31,678 --> 00:40:34,598
Speaker 1: together really most of them for you know, a good

924
00:40:34,838 --> 00:40:36,598
Speaker 1: time that he's been there now ten years.

925
00:40:36,918 --> 00:40:38,278
Speaker 3: How do you handle this situation?

926
00:40:38,758 --> 00:40:41,398
Speaker 1: I mean, everybody knows it's early, we know that, but

927
00:40:41,438 --> 00:40:44,198
Speaker 1: as you know, Joe, you can lose a division in April.

928
00:40:44,838 --> 00:40:47,278
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I was thinking about it when you when

929
00:40:47,318 --> 00:40:49,518
Speaker 4: you posed this question earlier, and you know I've been

930
00:40:49,558 --> 00:40:51,798
Speaker 4: through it if you remember. I can't remember exactly the year,

931
00:40:51,838 --> 00:40:53,878
Speaker 4: but we started out like two and six, two and seven,

932
00:40:54,438 --> 00:40:56,398
Speaker 4: two and eight with the Rays. We go to Chicago

933
00:40:57,078 --> 00:40:58,838
Speaker 4: and on the plane ride up, I get in front

934
00:40:58,838 --> 00:41:01,118
Speaker 4: of everybody on the plane, I grab the microphone, I

935
00:41:01,158 --> 00:41:03,598
Speaker 4: pack up, pass out those little those little cups you

936
00:41:03,638 --> 00:41:05,838
Speaker 4: passed medicine with, and I poured a shot.

937
00:41:05,598 --> 00:41:07,118
Speaker 2: Of Shemy not samee.

938
00:41:07,318 --> 00:41:10,478
Speaker 4: Gosh, it was a whiskey from the Napa Valley Sharbey

939
00:41:10,998 --> 00:41:13,118
Speaker 4: and I went up and down the aisle, even Zoe

940
00:41:13,118 --> 00:41:15,038
Speaker 4: had a shot. I went up there and I got

941
00:41:15,118 --> 00:41:18,038
Speaker 4: grabbed the mic and I says, this is a toast

942
00:41:18,078 --> 00:41:20,198
Speaker 4: to the best two and seven team in the history

943
00:41:20,198 --> 00:41:22,598
Speaker 4: of Major League Baseball. We're going to straighten this out, guys,

944
00:41:22,998 --> 00:41:24,838
Speaker 4: stay with it, et cetera, et cetera. Then we took

945
00:41:24,838 --> 00:41:28,158
Speaker 4: our shot, went on to get to the playoffs that year. Hey,

946
00:41:28,278 --> 00:41:30,878
Speaker 4: I evaluate, what is the problem here? I mean something

947
00:41:30,878 --> 00:41:32,238
Speaker 4: you get off to a bat start like this and

948
00:41:32,238 --> 00:41:35,278
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, gosh, everything's wrong. Maybe not maybe

949
00:41:35,318 --> 00:41:37,278
Speaker 4: everything's not wrong. Maybe there has been a couple of

950
00:41:37,318 --> 00:41:39,678
Speaker 4: bad breaks. You talked about a couple injuries, and I

951
00:41:39,758 --> 00:41:42,958
Speaker 4: have this distraction with Profar et cetera. So first of all,

952
00:41:42,998 --> 00:41:46,958
Speaker 4: evaluate what the problem is and really be specific and

953
00:41:47,078 --> 00:41:49,918
Speaker 4: be honest with yourselves, because you're gonna read things, You're

954
00:41:49,918 --> 00:41:52,038
Speaker 4: gonna people, you're gonna hear things, and all of a sudden,

955
00:41:52,118 --> 00:41:56,158
Speaker 4: things might be manipulated, and all of a sudden, there's

956
00:41:56,198 --> 00:41:58,758
Speaker 4: this narrative created that really isn't true, and it's and

957
00:41:58,798 --> 00:42:00,518
Speaker 4: if you try to explain it, it sounds like you're

958
00:42:00,518 --> 00:42:03,118
Speaker 4: making excuses. So what is the problem here and try

959
00:42:03,118 --> 00:42:04,998
Speaker 4: to figure it out. The next part, I would have

960
00:42:04,998 --> 00:42:07,838
Speaker 4: a staff meeting just the coaches only love to do

961
00:42:07,878 --> 00:42:09,238
Speaker 4: this on the road, and they're actually on the road,

962
00:42:09,238 --> 00:42:11,798
Speaker 4: and I would sit down with everybody, would talk about

963
00:42:11,798 --> 00:42:15,318
Speaker 4: each guy on the team, each guy specifically, and determine

964
00:42:15,958 --> 00:42:17,078
Speaker 4: what can we do to help this.

965
00:42:16,958 --> 00:42:18,438
Speaker 2: Guy individually right here now.

966
00:42:19,078 --> 00:42:22,638
Speaker 4: And then I would permit or have the coaches handle

967
00:42:22,678 --> 00:42:25,438
Speaker 4: their department and stay out of the way. If there

968
00:42:25,478 --> 00:42:28,238
Speaker 4: was a situation where I felt I needed to be involved,

969
00:42:28,678 --> 00:42:31,198
Speaker 4: we would talk about that in this meeting. And furthermore,

970
00:42:31,238 --> 00:42:33,678
Speaker 4: like for instance, when I had Ken rivisa. Who needs

971
00:42:33,758 --> 00:42:36,758
Speaker 4: Kenny's help right now? Mental skills? Which among these group?

972
00:42:37,118 --> 00:42:39,878
Speaker 4: Who needs to speak with Kenny specifically? And we would

973
00:42:39,878 --> 00:42:42,278
Speaker 4: make sure that Kenny, if he wasn't with this, would

974
00:42:42,318 --> 00:42:43,878
Speaker 4: get in touch via the telephone, etc.

975
00:42:44,398 --> 00:42:45,838
Speaker 2: And make sure that the player knew.

976
00:42:45,638 --> 00:42:48,118
Speaker 4: It, so you wouldn't show any panic whatsoever. You can't

977
00:42:48,158 --> 00:42:50,198
Speaker 4: show that and you can't start blowing the whole thing up.

978
00:42:50,598 --> 00:42:53,078
Speaker 4: So what is the problem, Be honest about it, and

979
00:42:53,078 --> 00:42:56,398
Speaker 4: once you've arrived at the problem, have a group discussion

980
00:42:56,398 --> 00:42:59,078
Speaker 4: with your coaches and individualize whatever we're going to do

981
00:42:59,118 --> 00:43:01,238
Speaker 4: with each guy to get out of this, and they'll

982
00:43:01,278 --> 00:43:02,958
Speaker 4: let the coaches coach out of their way.

983
00:43:03,278 --> 00:43:05,598
Speaker 2: Let the coaches be what they were hired to do.

984
00:43:06,238 --> 00:43:08,918
Speaker 4: And then furthermore, like if there's any tweaks, like I

985
00:43:08,918 --> 00:43:11,118
Speaker 4: said with Devers, put him in a leadoff spot whatever.

986
00:43:11,518 --> 00:43:15,038
Speaker 4: It's too early to send guys opering guys up that

987
00:43:15,318 --> 00:43:18,558
Speaker 4: you just haven't had enough time to evaluate. So really

988
00:43:18,598 --> 00:43:20,718
Speaker 4: be just to understand what am I seeing right here?

989
00:43:20,758 --> 00:43:22,358
Speaker 2: And do not just follow the narrative.

990
00:43:22,638 --> 00:43:24,478
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that in terms

991
00:43:24,518 --> 00:43:27,238
Speaker 1: of not just follow the narrative, the idea of disruption

992
00:43:27,518 --> 00:43:30,558
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I covered Billy Martin. I was there

993
00:43:30,638 --> 00:43:32,918
Speaker 1: when he sometimes pulled a lineup out of a hat.

994
00:43:33,198 --> 00:43:33,598
Speaker 3: Literally.

995
00:43:33,758 --> 00:43:36,078
Speaker 1: I was there when he had Rick road In one

996
00:43:36,118 --> 00:43:38,998
Speaker 1: of his pitchers in the lineup as the DH.

997
00:43:39,318 --> 00:43:40,798
Speaker 3: The first time up he gets a sack fly.

998
00:43:41,198 --> 00:43:43,838
Speaker 1: I know there's some hitting coaches and people who trained

999
00:43:43,878 --> 00:43:46,798
Speaker 1: on hitting who if you're trying to change a swing,

1000
00:43:47,598 --> 00:43:51,398
Speaker 1: they'll have the player work with, say a thick PVC pipe,

1001
00:43:51,838 --> 00:43:54,478
Speaker 1: because you put something very different in their hands and

1002
00:43:54,518 --> 00:43:58,758
Speaker 1: it challenges the brain to think differently rather than thinking

1003
00:43:58,838 --> 00:44:02,638
Speaker 1: by roots. So if you're Brian snicker and again, I

1004
00:44:02,678 --> 00:44:06,838
Speaker 1: wouldn't classify this as panic. I hate the use of

1005
00:44:06,878 --> 00:44:09,278
Speaker 1: that word, and people always ask that in the clubhouse

1006
00:44:09,318 --> 00:44:11,798
Speaker 1: after game, is it time to panic? No, people do

1007
00:44:11,798 --> 00:44:14,958
Speaker 1: not panic. Professional athletes do not panic. Folkses don't even

1008
00:44:15,038 --> 00:44:18,358
Speaker 1: use that word. But do we need a disruption here?

1009
00:44:18,438 --> 00:44:20,798
Speaker 1: If you're the Atlanta Braves to come to the ballpark

1010
00:44:21,238 --> 00:44:23,278
Speaker 1: with a different kind of vibe.

1011
00:44:22,998 --> 00:44:25,678
Speaker 4: Shot, like I said, shot a whiskey on an airplane,

1012
00:44:25,758 --> 00:44:26,998
Speaker 4: and then that'suption.

1013
00:44:27,438 --> 00:44:27,878
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.

1014
00:44:28,038 --> 00:44:30,678
Speaker 4: Here's the biggest thing too, that I've always felt when

1015
00:44:30,718 --> 00:44:33,958
Speaker 4: you me as the manager, whenever I walked in the door.

1016
00:44:33,998 --> 00:44:34,398
Speaker 2: They could.

1017
00:44:34,438 --> 00:44:36,358
Speaker 4: They had to see the same guy walk in the door.

1018
00:44:36,838 --> 00:44:38,678
Speaker 4: So when I walked in the door, it always had

1019
00:44:38,718 --> 00:44:40,478
Speaker 4: to look like a five or six game winning streak.

1020
00:44:40,918 --> 00:44:42,558
Speaker 4: And even if it was a five or six game

1021
00:44:42,558 --> 00:44:44,278
Speaker 4: losing streak, it still had to look like that five

1022
00:44:44,358 --> 00:44:45,438
Speaker 4: or six game winning streak.

1023
00:44:45,718 --> 00:44:47,798
Speaker 2: They can't see something different.

1024
00:44:47,838 --> 00:44:50,238
Speaker 4: If you talk about panic, whatever that word is, it's

1025
00:44:50,278 --> 00:44:53,638
Speaker 4: not panic, okay. It's like this this cloud, this uneasy feeling,

1026
00:44:53,758 --> 00:44:59,238
Speaker 4: this concern, trepidation, all this stuff, uneasiness, uncertainty, all creeps

1027
00:44:59,318 --> 00:45:02,318
Speaker 4: in to the group if in fact the leader shows

1028
00:45:02,398 --> 00:45:03,998
Speaker 4: different versions of them.

1029
00:45:05,198 --> 00:45:06,718
Speaker 2: And that was really important to me.

1030
00:45:06,878 --> 00:45:09,598
Speaker 4: So I would actually steal myself before I walked in

1031
00:45:09,638 --> 00:45:11,958
Speaker 4: sometimes because it could be kind of crappy. And you

1032
00:45:11,998 --> 00:45:13,318
Speaker 4: walk in and you said to yourself, you know, you

1033
00:45:13,358 --> 00:45:15,518
Speaker 4: go in there and you act the same way, talk

1034
00:45:15,558 --> 00:45:18,798
Speaker 4: to everybody the same way that save up beat, positive personality,

1035
00:45:19,118 --> 00:45:21,118
Speaker 4: bring it, man, because they need it now more than ever.

1036
00:45:21,598 --> 00:45:23,478
Speaker 4: So these are the kind of thoughts I would have

1037
00:45:23,638 --> 00:45:26,878
Speaker 4: for me personally as the manager walking into a situation

1038
00:45:27,358 --> 00:45:30,238
Speaker 4: like that, because too many times, man, you know, the

1039
00:45:30,278 --> 00:45:32,318
Speaker 4: dude who walk in the manager would walk in bad

1040
00:45:32,358 --> 00:45:34,398
Speaker 4: moment all of a sudden, you see this this.

1041
00:45:34,398 --> 00:45:37,158
Speaker 2: Vile, different person, and everything was great. He was your

1042
00:45:37,198 --> 00:45:38,838
Speaker 2: best friend. I hated that.

1043
00:45:38,958 --> 00:45:40,958
Speaker 4: I hated that from my leaders, I hated that from

1044
00:45:40,958 --> 00:45:43,838
Speaker 4: my manager. I never reacted well to that as a player.

1045
00:45:43,878 --> 00:45:45,678
Speaker 4: So those are the kind of things that are really

1046
00:45:45,718 --> 00:45:48,478
Speaker 4: important to me. We went through some difficult moments.

1047
00:45:48,798 --> 00:45:51,158
Speaker 1: Well, if I were Brian Snitker, I'd call up Joe Madden,

1048
00:45:51,238 --> 00:45:53,638
Speaker 1: I'd invite him out to Dodger Stadium for this series

1049
00:45:53,918 --> 00:45:56,798
Speaker 1: and I'd say, Joe, you're so good at bringing up

1050
00:45:56,798 --> 00:45:59,878
Speaker 1: the right line and these Book of Joe podcasts, why

1051
00:45:59,878 --> 00:46:02,438
Speaker 1: don't you give us the Thought of the Day. So

1052
00:46:02,518 --> 00:46:05,518
Speaker 1: that's what I would have, Joe Madden, I'd have the

1053
00:46:05,838 --> 00:46:08,958
Speaker 1: Book of Joe Thought of the Day. So on that note,

1054
00:46:09,798 --> 00:46:11,398
Speaker 1: what would you tell the braves or at least our

1055
00:46:11,438 --> 00:46:12,678
Speaker 1: audience you saw this?

1056
00:46:12,718 --> 00:46:14,398
Speaker 2: Did you actually saw this somehow?

1057
00:46:15,398 --> 00:46:15,718
Speaker 3: Wow?

1058
00:46:15,998 --> 00:46:16,758
Speaker 2: This is crazy?

1059
00:46:16,838 --> 00:46:19,278
Speaker 4: So I was actually did this last night a little

1060
00:46:19,278 --> 00:46:23,278
Speaker 4: bit going into this morning. They have a big golf

1061
00:46:23,318 --> 00:46:24,838
Speaker 4: match going on today. I want to make sure everything

1062
00:46:24,878 --> 00:46:28,398
Speaker 4: in order. So this was from Aristotle. I like to

1063
00:46:28,438 --> 00:46:32,198
Speaker 4: dip back into Aristotle, Socrates, all these guys. I mean,

1064
00:46:32,238 --> 00:46:34,678
Speaker 4: when you read their stuff, I mean, my god, there's

1065
00:46:34,678 --> 00:46:38,478
Speaker 4: nothing's really changed what people were faced with back then

1066
00:46:38,518 --> 00:46:40,878
Speaker 4: and with their face what we're faced with today. We

1067
00:46:40,918 --> 00:46:43,478
Speaker 4: always exaggerate our plight as human beings. We think it's

1068
00:46:43,478 --> 00:46:45,438
Speaker 4: the worst it's ever been, And you can roll back

1069
00:46:45,478 --> 00:46:47,718
Speaker 4: the clock fifty years it was just equally as bad,

1070
00:46:47,758 --> 00:46:51,478
Speaker 4: and thousands of years was equally as difficult.

1071
00:46:51,078 --> 00:46:52,198
Speaker 2: With the same kind of thoughts.

1072
00:46:52,598 --> 00:46:54,318
Speaker 4: So this is what I came up with today, And

1073
00:46:54,318 --> 00:46:56,278
Speaker 4: you're right on the money. Is this the question you

1074
00:46:56,358 --> 00:46:58,718
Speaker 4: just posed to me? And it's from Aristotle? There is

1075
00:46:58,758 --> 00:47:03,238
Speaker 4: no great genius without a mixture of madness. And when

1076
00:47:03,278 --> 00:47:05,038
Speaker 4: I read that, all I could think was the time

1077
00:47:05,078 --> 00:47:07,078
Speaker 4: I talked about it got to be a little bit

1078
00:47:07,118 --> 00:47:10,398
Speaker 4: crazy to be great. So that's it. Get outside your

1079
00:47:10,438 --> 00:47:13,118
Speaker 4: normal patterns. You have to you have to get outside

1080
00:47:13,158 --> 00:47:17,198
Speaker 4: your normal patterns. Whatever created this issue, whatever created this problem,

1081
00:47:17,238 --> 00:47:18,758
Speaker 4: it's got to be dealt with in a different way

1082
00:47:18,758 --> 00:47:21,678
Speaker 4: than what created it. I love this so and I

1083
00:47:21,718 --> 00:47:25,118
Speaker 4: didn't I probably read this several times, but maybe an

1084
00:47:25,158 --> 00:47:27,318
Speaker 4: influence in my thought about got to be a little

1085
00:47:27,318 --> 00:47:29,558
Speaker 4: bit crazy to be great. But there's no great genius

1086
00:47:29,558 --> 00:47:31,758
Speaker 4: without a mixture of madness. Don't be afraid to take

1087
00:47:31,798 --> 00:47:35,798
Speaker 4: a chance. Don't be afraid to go into some uncomfortable territory,

1088
00:47:36,038 --> 00:47:38,558
Speaker 4: because that's what's necessary. If you want to just stay

1089
00:47:38,558 --> 00:47:40,918
Speaker 4: in that comfort zone, brother, it ain't going to happen.

1090
00:47:41,398 --> 00:47:44,118
Speaker 4: And always know that you got to go out on

1091
00:47:44,158 --> 00:47:47,358
Speaker 4: the limb to really find the best fruit. So these

1092
00:47:47,358 --> 00:47:49,798
Speaker 4: are the things that I would be thinking about right now.

1093
00:47:49,998 --> 00:47:51,678
Speaker 2: It's really uncomfortable.

1094
00:47:51,078 --> 00:47:52,638
Speaker 4: Sometimes when you go out there and you do these

1095
00:47:52,638 --> 00:47:55,278
Speaker 4: different kind of crazy things, and I think to my said, man,

1096
00:47:58,118 --> 00:47:59,678
Speaker 4: what's the reaction going to be? Is this actually going

1097
00:47:59,718 --> 00:48:01,958
Speaker 4: to work? But then I I said, no, let's stay

1098
00:48:01,998 --> 00:48:03,678
Speaker 4: with it. Let's go with it, and almost one hundred

1099
00:48:03,678 --> 00:48:05,958
Speaker 4: percent of the time it does. So don't be afraid

1100
00:48:05,998 --> 00:48:06,758
Speaker 4: to go out on the limb.

1101
00:48:06,798 --> 00:48:06,998
Speaker 2: Man.

1102
00:48:07,038 --> 00:48:08,638
Speaker 3: That that is like two perfect.

1103
00:48:08,718 --> 00:48:11,638
Speaker 1: And I swore, I swear, Joe, I had no idea

1104
00:48:11,758 --> 00:48:13,838
Speaker 1: you were going there, right, I.

1105
00:48:13,878 --> 00:48:15,998
Speaker 4: Had that, dude, Look at all my notes on my

1106
00:48:16,078 --> 00:48:18,798
Speaker 4: paper from today. It's right, wow, it's right there.

1107
00:48:19,598 --> 00:48:21,918
Speaker 3: That is so perfect. Well, we'll see you next time.

1108
00:48:21,918 --> 00:48:22,598
Speaker 3: Of the Book of Joe.

1109
00:48:22,758 --> 00:48:24,838
Speaker 2: Nice job, all right, telling me you two buddy. Thanks.

1110
00:48:32,518 --> 00:48:35,758
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1111
00:48:35,958 --> 00:48:40,958
Speaker 1: For more podcasts, from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1112
00:48:41,078 --> 00:48:42,838
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.