1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: All the media. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to take it up. And here I'm 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: Andrew Sage and I'm back with James. 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 3: It's me again. 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: Welcome back. 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, good to be here. 7 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: Great to have you once again, offer you to have me. 8 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: I'm not sure the dynamic is here. 9 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean there were. It's nice to be together. 10 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 2: It's an egalitarian dynamic. You know, we're both having each 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 2: other in a sense. 12 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're sharing this podcast. 13 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there are a lot of concepts that 14 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 2: it's good to grasp to get a sense of how 15 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: this world works. Kind of continuing from the previous episode 16 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: where we spoke about all the different ways that we 17 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 2: can divide up the world and understanding the world and 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: so on. Today's sort of pursuit of that endeavor. I 19 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: wanted to get into a particular concept that is so 20 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: benign yet supervsive in this system, and it's the idea 21 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: of externalization. Do you get what I mean by that? 22 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, like making people of things other. 23 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: Yes, But specifically, I think I want to address how 24 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 2: capitalism persists by pushing harm onto the other, yeah, onto 25 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: the someone or something else, shifting the costs of particular actions, 26 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: either environmentally socially or economically. I think the easiest example 27 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: I could point too is how a company may choose 28 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: to save on disposal costs by dumping their waste into 29 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: a river, which can thus poison the water supply, the ecosystem, 30 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: and the health of all those human and non human 31 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: lives who rely upon or live near that river. Do 32 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: you have another example you could probably point to? 33 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there are lots of them. One of 34 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 3: them that I think of a lot is like how 35 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 3: in the US, rightly, products that we can't recycle or 36 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 3: that we can't landfill, we will literally ship to somewhere 37 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 3: else to be dumped. Like, our consumption creates so much 38 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 3: excess and so much waste, and we can't be confronted 39 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 3: with that waste, so we tip it to play. This 40 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: is where people consume less. 41 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's uh, I mean you see, I don't know 42 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: if you've seen any of the footage of some of 43 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 2: these places, their whole costs of fast fashion waste for 44 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: example in Africa, or just eweiste leaching into the soil. 45 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: It's really quite tragic. Yeah. 46 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: I remember someone on net once was telling me that 47 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 3: like one of the things that children did where they 48 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: had come from, was they would pick through e waste, 49 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: specifically charging cables to get the copper out. 50 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 51 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 3: This would result in them having these terrible injuries to 52 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: their fingers because they were like prying the cables apart, 53 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 3: and you know, over time they would get little pieces 54 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 3: of both shards of metal embedded their fingertips. 55 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: Town. Yeah, that's terrible. 56 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pretty pretty grim condemnation of a way 57 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 3: of consuming. 58 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's messed up. It's messed up, and I think 59 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: when you see that sort of stuff, it's hard to 60 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: unsee it. When you see that impact onto the world, 61 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: it's hard to unsee it. But that's part of how 62 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: this concept thrives, this externalization thrives. It's by obscure in itself. Yeah, 63 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: So that's what we kind of want to do with 64 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: this episode, get up a full breadth of its history, 65 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 2: it's present, and its apparent future, so that we can 66 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: not see all the different ways that this occurs. Now, 67 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: this pass and on of costs may have always been 68 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: an option on the table, but we can see that 69 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: a lot of traditional economies did not go that route 70 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: because traditional economies were often human economies. As David Greeber 71 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: used the term in Debt. The first five thousand years, 72 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: you know, these were economies focused on human relationships. They 73 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 2: were embedded in kinship and land and customs and obligation 74 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: and reciprocity. So what you owed was really financial. It 75 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: was to enable your elder, your clan plan itself, and 76 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: so you could not really avoid the costs of your 77 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: actions on others, because that was at the center of 78 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 2: it all others. But the transition to capitalism was a 79 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: shift in what the economy was. It enforced the idea 80 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: that everything is or should be up for sale. The 81 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: economist called Polani called it the Great Transformation, when land, labor, 82 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 2: and money were turned into fictitious commodities, treated as if 83 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: they were products for sale. Plenty saw the modern state 84 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: and the capitalist market economy as a package deal. Graybot 85 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: also made this very clear in Debt as well. For 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 2: this new kind of economy to take hold, people had 87 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 2: to change how they thought about work and trade and 88 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 2: relation with each other and see in the world, those 89 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: conditions had to be created by the state. So you 90 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: could look at how electritional economies and commons had to 91 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: be disrupted to force the shift. In England, you had 92 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: people pushed off of common land that they had use 93 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 2: for centuries, and they had no choice but to sell 94 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: their labor to survive and go in to the factories. 95 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: We have to remember that it never started in the factories. 96 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: That actually started in the colonies. This dispossession of people 97 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: and from place started through that colonization process. Already amplified 98 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: through that colonization process extracting the wealth of people or 99 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: of labor, of land, of resources from one place to 100 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 2: concentrate it in another, to displace people and land and 101 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: costs and se Colonialism was capitalism sort of training ground 102 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: for externalization. You plunder a little bit over here, you 103 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 2: profit a little bit over there. And this is really 104 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: where we get to the core of capitalist externalization. With 105 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: the shifting of the costs on a small scale that 106 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: looks like the river pollution example. From the global scale, 107 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: it looks like what will steam is getting into with 108 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: world systems theory. How the wealth and stability the coronations 109 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 2: depends on the exploitation of the periphery. So slavery and 110 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: genocide and ecological ruin all of these are costs that 111 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 2: create the wealth that the core enjoys. But it's made 112 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 2: invisible to that core. Because when you're part of an 113 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: ongoing relationship with community, with land, with ecology, with people, 114 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: the actions have consequences that matter. They reverberate, you can 115 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: feel them, and that demands a level of responsibility on 116 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 2: your part. But when you take the things that have 117 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: been woven into relationship and turn them into plain old transactions, 118 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: those transactions can then offload the costs, offload the consequences, 119 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: make them someone else's problem. So, yeah, cloven is very 120 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 2: affordable now, but it's affordable because somebody somewhere was underpaid 121 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: and overworked. The smartphone. It's convenient, it's useful, successible, but 122 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 2: it's parts of mind and the dangerous conditions. You know, 123 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 2: your food delicious, nutritious, not exactly affordable these days, but 124 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: it's picked by hands that cannot afford that same meal. 125 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: So the harms of these systems, the harms of these actions, 126 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: of this level of consumption doesn't cease to exist. It's 127 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: just externalized. So it could be rendered invisible to one 128 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: point of view. Yeah, and it's not something that can 129 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: be set up without a fight. You know, people would 130 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 2: resist enclosures were met with resistance. Colonizations make with resistance 131 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: and even to the workers strike. You know, people do 132 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 2: fight back. It's not just this sweeping and nevitable process. 133 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: But because of the collaboration between state and capital, that 134 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: collusion of status and capitalist interests, the whole system has 135 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: managed to persist thus far. It's a very formidable forward 136 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: dealing with So we can set it back here and there, 137 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 2: but we have not defeated it yet. Yeah, and I 138 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: say yet, because you know, as we get into there 139 00:07:51,640 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: are ways to loosen its script. I think what's fascinating 140 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: about capitalistic externalization today is just how much it has 141 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: skilled and got more sophisticated in terms of the work 142 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: that makes the world run. The most essential labor is 143 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: often the most invisible and undervalued and precurious labor. You know, 144 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: where we're talking about the work that's necessary to clothe ourselves, 145 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: the work that's necessary to feed ourselves, the work is 146 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 2: necessary to build infrastructure, such as in the Gulf States 147 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 2: where you have litual modern slavery taking place to build 148 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: up those countries where they're talking about gig work, transportation delivery, 149 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, or reproductive work stuff like what 150 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: it's called housewife y or domestic labor. So you can 151 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: think of other examples as well. 152 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the one you gave about your cell phone, right, 153 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 3: like those rare earth materials. Like, it's not some slick, 154 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 3: safe mining operation that brings serves out the ground. It's 155 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: human hands in dangerous conditions that kill people. 156 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: Exactly, poisoned people. It's not even necessarily a quick death. 157 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: It's often a slow, yeah, lifelong death. 158 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: And it poisons that part of the world for generator. 159 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 3: We could stop right now, and it would take generations 160 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 3: for the damage to stop, exactly. 161 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: That's the thing about destruction, right, destruction can be very quick, 162 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 2: as the rebuilding that can take a long time. Yeah, 163 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 2: you know, if you look at how quickly Gazo has 164 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: been flattened versus how long it's going to take to 165 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 2: recover from that, it's like nine and. 166 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: D yeah, yeah, yeah like it. I mean I'm very 167 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: familiar with that particular example, right, Like how quickly you 168 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 3: can destroy something with a bomb from an aeroplane and 169 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 3: how hard people had to work to build it. In 170 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: October of twenty three, I was in Kurdistan, and like, 171 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 3: I know how hard people work to build at Rijaba, right, 172 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: to try and build a little island of democracy without 173 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: the state, in a place where the state has been 174 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 3: weaponized against tons of different ethnic groups who are not Arab, 175 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 3: and even against Arab people who didn't agree with the 176 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 3: state's particular line a thing. And one night, you know, 177 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 3: like the power station has gone, they bombed while I 178 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: was there, like an oxygen bottling plant for people who 179 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: need supplemental oxygen, either temporarily or permanently, and like it's 180 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 3: gone now. And now to build that back up in 181 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 3: a world where you are largely alienated from the system 182 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 3: of states in capital, right, you're trying to build stuff 183 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 3: back up as much as you can from networks of 184 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 3: solidarity and ingenuity, and that takes years and yeah, yeah, 185 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 3: but it's not visible. 186 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: And that's not even getting into the emotional and mental 187 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: tool of something like that. Yeah yeah, Oh that can 188 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 2: be a setback as well. Yeah, when we're not even 189 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: talking about resources, we're talking about Yeah that loss, Yeah 190 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: that that that pain, Yeah, yeah, a pain. It made 191 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 2: even worse when the skilled people, skilled workers who were 192 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 2: responsible for upkeeping such something like that also whiped up 193 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 2: by that same bomb. It makes it all the more 194 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: difficult to recover. 195 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, or drawn away right by the conditions of becoming 196 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 3: a liverable. So you have this like brain drain, where 197 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 3: people who have skills that are considered to be commercially 198 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 3: valuable have an opportunity to leave. The people who who 199 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: don't have those have the opportunity to stay or don't 200 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 3: have the opportunity to leave, I guess, like or even like, 201 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 3: you know, the US made a different version of externalization, 202 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 3: I guess, But like the US made a big thing 203 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: of how it defeated the Islamic state in you know, 204 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, I guess. I can't remember when the last 205 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: Atlan Alba goose was, I think twenty nineteen. But like 206 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: we externalized it off Lord, the cost of that struggle, Yeah, 207 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 3: the dying part, Like, yeah, US pilots did a whole 208 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 3: lot of killing, but the dying part that, yeah, we 209 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 3: externalized that right to Kurdish and Arab and the Syrian fodder. Yeah, 210 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 3: to people who would whose lives didn't matter. 211 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 212 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 3: And like I remember a time standing in a cemetery 213 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 3: there just looking at lines and lines of graves, and 214 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 3: I just left the house of someone who's thirteen year 215 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 3: old son was killed in a drone strike and just 216 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 3: thinking like each of these is a mother burying her child. 217 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 3: That like we essentially asked for the most part, right like, 218 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 3: to do that. We said, hey, what you guys do 219 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 3: the dying part because we don't want to like it 220 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 3: kind of sucks, sucks for the United States and Britain 221 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 3: in Iraq and Afghanistan, so we'd like someone else to 222 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 3: die now. And then you know, here we are a 223 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 3: few years later, right and like the night before Turkey 224 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 3: has been bombing the place where I'm looking at these graves, 225 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: and the US ain't doing shit to help, right Like, 226 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 3: even though these people had like made this massive sacrifice, 227 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 3: the US wasn't like, yeah, we're your friends. It's not 228 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 3: a friendship relationship, you know, Like it's it's like you said, 229 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 3: I forget an interaction, look like a yeah, purchase more 230 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 3: than a solidarity based thing. 231 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, And once again we really see that core externalizing 232 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: its costs onto periphery. And we see that both in 233 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: the sense of on the global stage between countries or 234 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: between populations cores and peripheres, but even internally within countries. 235 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: As we've mentioned in the previous episode talking about that 236 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 2: divide between the core and the periphery where you have 237 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: but a lot of people have called the economies biggest trick, 238 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: you know, your socialized failures and privatize profits. Yeah. So 239 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight to find and Shall crash, 240 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: people were evicted, but the balanks got built out and 241 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: the early stages of COVID corporations got relief. Gig workers 242 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 2: were exposed. Yeah. You know, in the process of austerity 243 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 2: resulting from neoliberalism, social services get cut in order to 244 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: balance the books, but there's never any consideration of or 245 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: the straight cuting profits. Yeah, and that's the one thing 246 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 2: that can never go down. 247 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, I think or even like within you know, 248 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 3: we all all food come from the soil at some point, right, 249 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 3: But like I can't tell you how many people I 250 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 3: know that my family are in agriculture, right, who have 251 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 3: died or lost limbs on farms. It's the same is 252 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 3: true if you're in the mining industry, right, Like, that's 253 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 3: not something that's visible. You know, you don't like go 254 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 3: to the supermarket and bite your bread, right, and you 255 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 3: don't think that someone got their arm in the combine 256 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 3: harvester when they were doing the fee that went to 257 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: the flower that made your loaf of bread that costs 258 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: one dollars ninety cents, and now that person doesn't have 259 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 3: an arm. 260 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: It's invisibilized. 261 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 262 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: I mean, it's the same thing when you see like 263 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: these natural disasters taking on place, right, floods or burnings, 264 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 2: right when California is on file and when Pakistan is 265 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: completely flooded out. Those are the consequences of the actions 266 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: of corporations, of the actions of this entire global economic system. 267 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: And meanwhile, the corporations are getting carbon credits to continue 268 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: doing what they were always doing. Yeah, you know, and 269 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 2: so the actual consequences of what they're doing, they're paying 270 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: for carbon credits, but the actual consequences of what they're 271 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: doing are being paid for by the communities that are 272 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: displaced by the consequences of this climate change. 273 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And we never talk about when we talk 274 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 3: about migration, right, Like that's a great the climate change 275 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: is a great example that we don't talk about how 276 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 3: the bulk of people coming to the United States are 277 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 3: coming from the place is most heavily impacted by climate change. 278 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 2: Yep. 279 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 3: Or like I was in the Marshall Islands a few 280 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: years ago, and there will be no more Marshall Islands 281 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 3: within our lifetime, yeah, because of the consequences and massive 282 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 3: corporations have made, but like they don't have any agency. 283 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 3: It made me really like it was hard because they're 284 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 3: doing stuff like they use a to get it to 285 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 3: get around the atolls, right, they use little like two 286 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: strikeout boards, and they're trying to build solar canoes instead 287 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 3: and solar boats so that it's it's cleaner energy. Right, 288 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: Like less than a percent of a percent of the 289 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 3: world's carbon emissions come from the Marshall Islands and they're 290 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: like trying their hardest to do their part to reduce 291 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: their emissions, but like they can't make the impact that 292 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 3: needs to be made just stop the sea levels rising 293 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 3: and arguably like when the world had a chance to 294 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 3: do so, like you see them speaking at the United 295 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 3: Nations and then the UN being like the line has 296 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 3: to go up. Yep, that means your island has to sink. 297 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: And that's why you know reform is not in kneph 298 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 2: for be enough, because this is how the system is designed. 299 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 2: It's designed to push risk downward and outward, onto the 300 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 2: working class, onto the global south, and onto the next generation. 301 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: Because that's another dimension of externalization right time, even our 302 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: future gets externalized in a sense. You know, all of 303 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: our resources are limited or finite resources that can used 304 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: up now at an increase in velocity. Right, Yeah, the 305 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 2: national debt of some countries is being sunking further and 306 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: further into now right the emissions the center of all 307 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 2: those emissions now fossil fuels, you know, all that stuff, 308 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 2: because we don't have to do the consequences, so the 309 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: future don't have to do the consequences. As the system 310 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: digging its own grave, because even though the system needs stability, 311 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: it will sacrifice future stability for present profits. It will 312 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 2: sacrifice nature, which is the basis of the economy. It 313 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 2: will sacrifice nature to the economy in service of the economy. 314 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 2: It will treat natures disposable and infinite and something external 315 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 2: to the way that we run things as if, as 316 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 2: if it's not going to catch up to us, and 317 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: so as collapse will accelerate as the consequences become more 318 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 2: apparent on the sacrifice zones of the periphery, the powers 319 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: are beyond interested in fixing it. You know, they're going 320 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: to fortify themselves against it through border patrols, through climate 321 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: walls through militarized disaster response. They're going to double down. 322 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, make it harder and harder to see the consequences 323 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 3: of excessive consumption of capitalism, like until the levy breaks, 324 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 3: I guess literally or metaphorically. 325 00:18:48,760 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: Yep, literally or metaphorically. And I want people to keep 326 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 2: in mind who are listening. You know, this Quan periphery 327 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 2: is un just the periphery out there, it's also the 328 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 2: periphery within that we're talking about in terms of consequences. 329 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: The internal dumping grounds, whether it be you know, indigenous 330 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: reservations or the neighborhoods of black and round people, or 331 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 2: the prisons are often serve as the holding tanks for 332 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 2: discontent and for poverty and for all the nasty consequences 333 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: that society doesn't want to deal with because of the 334 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 2: way society has been structured. 335 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, or just like under the bridge near your house, 336 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: you know, like like we exactly treat our exactly. Like 337 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 3: San Diego has this particular legisative initiative, which I find 338 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 3: like obviously it's fucked, but also like it's very so 339 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 3: it's so obvious, like they passed to think or of 340 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 3: camping there where they're going to make it illegal to 341 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 3: be unhoused on the sidewalk. You're like, it's a band. 342 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 3: It's a band against camping on the sidewalk, right, And 343 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 3: all it does it doesn't provide housing for people, and 344 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 3: that's it doesn't solve the issue. It moves people. Our 345 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 3: cities very hilly, and we have lots of canyons in 346 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 3: which they can't build, so it moves people into these canyons. Wow, 347 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 3: and it just makes the same people invisible, right, Like 348 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 3: that's the goal that the goal is not to provide 349 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 3: any form of solution. It's just to move these people 350 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 3: away so they don't have to be poor in public. 351 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 3: And so the people who who use homes as a 352 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 3: vehicle for wealth creation, not as a place for humans 353 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 3: to live, don't have to see the consequences of their actions. 354 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: Exactly. It's all about what they want, right I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. 355 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 2: You know, in a sense, depending on how you look 356 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: at it, any one of us can be a core, 357 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: and any one of us can be a periphery. You know, 358 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 2: to a rulers, we are all the periphery that they 359 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 2: can push their consequences onto. In another sense, you know, 360 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: I am part of the periphery, and do you are 361 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 2: part of the core, James? And in another sense, you know, 362 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 2: I might be considered part of the core in my 363 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 2: own country in some ways because of my class position, 364 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: because of my educational background, because of some of the 365 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: ways that I can be insulated, whereas you know, other ways, 366 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: you know, you might be the periphree in the United 367 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 2: States to the core, to the elites, to the ruling class. 368 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 2: And so this isn't to diminish the very real differences 369 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 2: between the global core and the global periphery. It wants 370 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 2: to make it clear to those of you in the 371 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 2: global core that you should be in solidarity with that 372 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: global periphery because their consequences are ultimately your own. You know, 373 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 2: ultimately we are all the ones who are going to 374 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 2: be holding the costs, cleaning the mess, surviving the fallout, 375 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 2: and then somehow tough it is because when you live 376 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: with a system that is based on externalization harm, you 377 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 2: can end up lashing out on others as well. You 378 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 2: know that that that logic, that systemic logic becomes it 379 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 2: o anizes, becomes part of how you navigate even your relationships. 380 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 2: But we don't have to accept that way of doing things. 381 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 2: The periphery, regardless of which prefer you're referring to, does 382 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 2: hold the potential for change. And so, you know, in 383 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 2: the beginning when we were speaking of externalization of economic 384 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 2: and economic dimension specifically, it's important to understand capitalism relies 385 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: on these flowers, these very smooth flows of labor, energy, 386 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: and resources and data from preferred to core, however you 387 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: define those terms, and so when we interrupt those flows, 388 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: even briefly, we can shake those foundations. And that sort 389 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: of approached, that effort to interrupt, is really part of 390 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: what social revel is about. It's how we make the 391 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 2: changes that we want to see. Yeah, you know, I 392 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 2: speak a social revolution as not some flashy one time 393 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 2: event or moment in history, but as an ongoing process, 394 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 2: as something that has taking place right now at different levels, 395 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 2: in different ways all over the world. And so we 396 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 2: can speak of the things we do to oppose the 397 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 2: current system, like these strikes and blockades that have taken 398 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: place around the world, the indigenous land defense struggles that 399 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 2: are taking place around the world, they rent strikes and 400 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: mutual aid that have taken place around the world. And 401 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: then beyond that sort of opposition, talking about the things 402 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 2: we do to propose and alternative, to construct the kind 403 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 2: of world and the kind of life that we need, 404 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: so we don't have to rely on these systems anymore 405 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 2: that exploit us. To make these systems obsolete, to build 406 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 2: the cooperatives, to build work a control, collectives and disaster 407 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 2: response out side of the state, to sort of crack 408 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: the system, and to create in those cracks the space 409 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: where a different system, a new life can grow. Yeah, 410 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: to not become one big machine or one centralized struggle 411 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 2: or movement, but to multiply and interconnect and adapt to 412 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: the niche circumstances we're all to den with like my celium, 413 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 2: you know, like the mushrooms. 414 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that technology, Like it's sort of you're like 415 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 3: opening a crack thing paraphrases Zappatista texts right like and 416 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 3: they have this either this phrase I like from Supermandente 417 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 3: Marcos that translates just like, we don't have to change 418 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 3: the world because we're building another one right now, and 419 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: you know, you don't have to. We don't have to conquer. 420 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 3: Like there's this obsession on the left with like revolutionists, 421 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 3: like you said, like an act that occurs at a 422 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 3: point in. 423 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: Time capital our revolution, yes. 424 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, as opposed to like building the world where the 425 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 3: things that we don't wish to see become irrelevant through 426 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 3: our actions every day. Like you use the example of 427 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 3: people being an house, which I mentioned before, right, Like 428 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 3: the way we build a world where those people aren't 429 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 3: externalized is by not externalizing those people. Like you know, 430 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 3: it's not hard to do. You probably talk to human 431 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 3: beings every day anyway, Like, just continue to do that, 432 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 3: you know, take your neighbor a sandwich, and like that's 433 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 3: the revolution that you can build slowly, and maybe it's 434 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 3: not as exciting. It's like, you know, the one way 435 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 3: you I've attended the revolutions where people fight against the state, 436 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: but you still have to do the hard work. You 437 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 3: still have to do the like day to day building 438 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: of a different way of relating to one another, even 439 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 3: in those revolutions where things change quickly and violently exactly. 440 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I mean even before we get to 441 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 2: that point, you know, to be able to change the 442 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: way relate to each other, it starts with mindset. It 443 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: starts with shifting our realm of possibility is you know, 444 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 2: not necessarily killing the memes of capitalism. And I mean 445 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 2: memes in the sensor. Richard Dawkins originally use the term 446 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 2: as these cultural ideas that persist, that spread that adapt 447 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,959 Speaker 2: It's difficult to kill those those memes, but you can 448 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: replace them with better memes. And so replacing and popularizing 449 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 2: those memes those ideas, you are challenging the idea that 450 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 2: you know rest is laziness, you know, challenging the idea 451 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 2: that you know the end goal is profit, that there's 452 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 2: no other system besides Catholics, and that that's something better, 453 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: isn't on the horizon. Shift in that sense, reality I 454 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: think is a very important part of the struggle, and 455 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 2: with every act, because I think ideas have to be 456 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 2: accompanied by act. With every act, I think it helps 457 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 2: to break this, to cut off, to put an end 458 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 2: to that externalization. Because even though capitalists and will continue 459 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 2: to try to push its harm outward and downward, are 460 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 2: we and away from view, we can continue to challenge 461 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 2: it inwardly, to push our struggle upward and to center 462 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: our struggle in the center of you, so we can 463 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 2: see it, so that we can feel us, and so 464 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 2: that we can act against it. And that's all I 465 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 2: have for this episode. All forward to all the people peace. 466 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 467 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 468 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 469 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 470 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 1: You can now find sources for it could Happen Here 471 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.