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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by first Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by public Land mountain buck expert

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Speaker 2: Nathan Killen to dive deep into what he's learned about

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Speaker 2: the behavior's trends and tendencies of the biggest oldest bucks around.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to the wired ton Podcast, brought to

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Speaker 2: you by First Light and our Camo for Conservation initiative.

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Speaker 2: If you're not familiar with this, every purchase of First

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Speaker 2: Light's Whitetail camo, which is the Spectra pattern, if you

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Speaker 2: buy a jacket, if you buy a hat, if you

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Speaker 2: buy a base layer, whatever it is, Inspector, a portion

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Speaker 2: of the proceeds from that sale get donated to the

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Speaker 2: National Deer Association to help them do good things for

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Speaker 2: deer and deer hunters. So that is pretty darn cool.

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Speaker 2: And this week we've got some pretty darn cool for

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Speaker 2: you on the show as well. We're continuing our I

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Speaker 2: guess I don't have a really good name for this series,

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Speaker 2: but we're diving in this month to the personalities and

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Speaker 2: the tendencies and the behaviors and the quirks of mature bucks.

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Speaker 2: And not just like kind of mature bucks. I'm talking

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Speaker 2: like old bucks. What do these bucks do? These deer

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Speaker 2: are different than everything else out there on the landscape.

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Speaker 2: They are the trickiest, they are the wiliest, they are

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Speaker 2: the toughest, They are the survivors, and because of that,

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Speaker 2: I think they fascinate a whole pile of us. We

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Speaker 2: are I think many, many, many of us cannot stop

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Speaker 2: thinking about these kinds of bucks. We can't stop trying

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Speaker 2: to put together the puzzle pieces, put together that next

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Speaker 2: move in the game of chess, to try to catch

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Speaker 2: up with that buck. They are the ultimate corey. And

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Speaker 2: so this month we're trying to peel back a couple

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Speaker 2: layers of the onion to understand why these bucks do

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Speaker 2: what they do, How do they do what they do,

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Speaker 2: what are they thinking, where are they going? What are

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Speaker 2: they doing? And the people that are going to help

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Speaker 2: us figure that out are those deer hunters who have

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Speaker 2: had the very most experience with that kind of buck.

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Speaker 2: And today we have a guest who absolutely checks that box.

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Speaker 2: His name is Nathan Killing. He is a die hard

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Speaker 2: deer hunter from the state of Virginia and he hunts

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Speaker 2: big woods, big mountain public land there in va in

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Speaker 2: Ohio and elsewhere, and he has done it to a

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Speaker 2: level of success level. I'm not sure what I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to say here. He's been more successful than most anyone

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Speaker 2: else I know in that kind of habitat. And he

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Speaker 2: first came up on my radar when our good pale

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Speaker 2: Andy May said to me, man, Nathan gets it done like.

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Speaker 2: He is a top tier deer hunter, doing it in

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Speaker 2: really tough circumstances and a very different place than most

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Speaker 2: people we talked to. We got to get on the

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Speaker 2: podcast at some point, and this was years ago, and

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Speaker 2: it just didn't work out for whatever reason. But finally

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Speaker 2: we were able to put the pieces together and Nathan

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Speaker 2: is here today. He has terrific level of experience with

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Speaker 2: these kinds of deer. He's got great insight. He's haunted

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Speaker 2: old old bucks like way older bucks and I've ever

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Speaker 2: got to chase as you'll hear here soon. He's got

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Speaker 2: experience a lot of experience with not just five year

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Speaker 2: old bucks, but six year old bucks, seven year old bucks, eight, nine, ten.

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Speaker 2: He's finding deer like this, and he's not doing on

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Speaker 2: like a thousand acre private, supermanaged farm. He's doing this

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Speaker 2: on public land. He's hunting eight year old bucks on

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Speaker 2: public land. There's some things we can learn from a

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Speaker 2: guy like that. So that is our plan today. Now,

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Speaker 2: I just want to, with all that being said, remind

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Speaker 2: us of one thing, though, which is and I said

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Speaker 2: this last week. I'm gonna say this every week because

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Speaker 2: I think it's really important. In this, dear you're hunting

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Speaker 2: world we live in these days, big deer get a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of attention and praise and excitement, and right

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Speaker 2: for good reason. They're all those things I just mentioned.

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Speaker 2: They're fascinating, but they're not everything. And if you were

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Speaker 2: to ever let a big buck or old buck, or

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Speaker 2: any of this kind of stuff, an obsession over antler size,

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Speaker 2: if any of that ever gets in the way of

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Speaker 2: your respect for these animals, of your fun that you

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Speaker 2: have while hunting these animals, if it gets in the

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Speaker 2: way of you know, your relationships, your friendships, your family,

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Speaker 2: if any of those things happen, that is a problem.

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Speaker 2: And it's it's super important to me as I've gone

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Speaker 2: through this myself to remind ourselves the big bucks aren't everything.

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Speaker 2: And if you are not at a point in your

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Speaker 2: hunting journey where you are chasing deer like this, that

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Speaker 2: is fine. Do not feel any pressure to do so.

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Speaker 2: If you want to listen today, awesome, You're gonna learn

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Speaker 2: some things, but don't feel like you got to go

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Speaker 2: out there and chase the deer like this. If you're

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Speaker 2: still learning, man, be where you are, Enjoy where you are,

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Speaker 2: get good at where you are. If you have no

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Speaker 2: desire to hunt a deer like this, if you just

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Speaker 2: want to get out there and kill some doughs or

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Speaker 2: the first dear you see because you want to feel

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Speaker 2: that freezer, man, that is awesome. I'm really glad you're

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Speaker 2: out there doing it. Keep doing it, keep having fun,

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Speaker 2: feeds your family. Who cares about these big old deer.

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Speaker 2: If that's not your cup of tea, do not feel

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Speaker 2: bad about it. Do not anybody else's choices make you

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Speaker 2: feel bad about that hunt. Your own hunt. And I

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Speaker 2: think with all that said, in the pursuit of big

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Speaker 2: old bucks, especially these biggest old this year, these super

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Speaker 2: mature deer. It's easy to let like that, those obsession

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Speaker 2: type tendencies in US deer hunters to kind of take over.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: If anyone's listened over the last couple of years, you've

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Speaker 2: heard my own experience where I've gone maybe too far

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Speaker 2: down this road to the point where I was losing

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Speaker 2: some of the fun. I was so obsessed with the

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Speaker 2: end result trying to kill one of these deer that

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Speaker 2: I was letting it, you know, a make me feel

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Speaker 2: bad whenever I didn't have that success, make me get

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Speaker 2: you know, not necessarily depressed, but it overstressed for sure.

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Speaker 2: It made me, know, discount the time that it should

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Speaker 2: have been spending with my family or my friends. It

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Speaker 2: took me away from a lot of the things that

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Speaker 2: make deer hunting especially as it is. So I've had

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Speaker 2: to have like a perspective shift in recent years where

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Speaker 2: I think I've found now a healthy balance between appreciating

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Speaker 2: and chasing these big old deer, which are fascinating and

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Speaker 2: fun and a heck of a challenge, but at the

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Speaker 2: same time not letting it take over the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: and making sure that I'm giving proper priority to my family,

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Speaker 2: to my friends and the relationships that I have all

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Speaker 2: around hunting, giving back to the landscapes, making sure that

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Speaker 2: this is like a whole picture thing. It's not just

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Speaker 2: trying to kill the biggest olds deer. It's trying to

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Speaker 2: have a fun, challenging hunting experience. It's trying to put

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Speaker 2: food on the table. It's trying to nurture important relationships

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Speaker 2: and share the outdoors the people you care about. It's

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Speaker 2: about giving back to the deer and the wild places

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Speaker 2: to make sure that these things continue into the future.

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Speaker 2: That is where at least I personally am today, and

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Speaker 2: I hope that if you're somewhere in the midst of

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Speaker 2: this journey yourself, that you'll think about some of those

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Speaker 2: things and just be careful, maybe not make some of

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Speaker 2: the same mistakes that I've made when I went too

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Speaker 2: far down this path. Remember it's about the process, right,

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Speaker 2: It's the hunt. It's not necessarily just the end result.

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Speaker 2: So keep that process fun. Don't obsess over do I

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Speaker 2: fill the tag or not? As much as did I

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Speaker 2: do everything I could? Did I do the right things?

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Speaker 2: Did I have fun along the way? At least for me,

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Speaker 2: those are the things that in the end really truly matter.

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Speaker 2: And if you can do that, it's funny how the

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Speaker 2: end result tends to follow. So that is all a

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Speaker 2: long winded way of saying we are talking about big

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Speaker 2: old bucks today, which are super cool, and we're all

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Speaker 2: gonna learn a lot today. I'm gonna leave you with

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Speaker 2: two quick plugs before we get to my chat with

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Speaker 2: Nathan number one. We do have another episode of One

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Speaker 2: Week in November out on the mediat YouTube channel. Speaking

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Speaker 2: of big old Bucks, You're gonna get to see me

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Speaker 2: recover a deer I talked about last fall, which is

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Speaker 2: at Nebraska Buck. He was a big old bach buck,

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Speaker 2: not bach a buck. Huge neck on him, huge body,

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Speaker 2: really cool deer, very exciting ending to this story there.

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Speaker 2: So check out That is episode two of One Week

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Speaker 2: in November, and by the time you're listening to this now,

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Speaker 2: there's probably gonna be three episodes, So please, if you

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Speaker 2: haven't yet, head on over to the Meat Eater YouTube channel.

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Speaker 2: Check out One Week in November. It follows myself, Tony Peterson,

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Speaker 2: Spencer Newharth Klay, nukeomb and Giannis Pitelis as we're hunting

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Speaker 2: deer during the first week of November all over the country.

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Speaker 2: It's a good time, So check that out. And finally,

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Speaker 2: we're coming up on our fifth Working for Wildlife Tour event,

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Speaker 2: which is down there in Mississippi, and we are going

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Speaker 2: to be planting trees, we are going to be planting

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Speaker 2: food plots, and we're going to be removing invasive plants

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Speaker 2: all on public land down there in Mississippi and the

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Speaker 2: DeSoto National Forest, doing some good stuff for deer, turkeys,

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Speaker 2: all sorts of critters, and I just want to say

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Speaker 2: thank you. I've already heard numbers of how many people

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Speaker 2: have signed up, and it is a big old pile

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Speaker 2: of folks coming down to volunteer their time during hunting season.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure the season's opened down there in Mississippium guessing

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Speaker 2: at least. And I just want to tell you how

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Speaker 2: much I appreciate that that you're willing to give a

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Speaker 2: little bit of your time on a weekend to give

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Speaker 2: back to these resources, these critters, these places that make

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Speaker 2: all this good stuff possible. So just letting you know that,

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Speaker 2: I'm giving you a big virtual high five handshake. Can't

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Speaker 2: wait to meet you. I can't wait to see you

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Speaker 2: tell some stories. We're gonna have a whole lot of

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Speaker 2: fun and we're gonna do some good work for wildlife.

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Speaker 2: And I can tell you from experience that you know,

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Speaker 2: having that kind of putting in, that kind of work,

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Speaker 2: it makes the hunts that follow that much sweeter because

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Speaker 2: you know that you were kind of part of everything

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Speaker 2: that led up to it. You gave back, and now

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Speaker 2: you can take and feel pretty darn good about that

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Speaker 2: deer you bring off the landscape, or the fishy pull

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Speaker 2: out of the lake, whatever it is. So now, without

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Speaker 2: any further ado, it's time to get to our next

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Speaker 2: guest in this Big Old Buck series. We've got Nathan Killing,

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Speaker 2: and we're gonna hear some stories about some eight year old,

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Speaker 2: nine year old, ten freaking year old bucks, which is

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Speaker 2: kind of crazy. Hope you enjoy it. Thanks for listening

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Speaker 2: all right here with me. Now on the line, we've

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Speaker 2: got the one and only Nathan Killing. Nathan, Thanks for

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Speaker 2: being here.

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Speaker 4: My pleasure, buddy. Sorry it's taken so long. I know

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Speaker 4: Andy here had reached out to me. I spent two

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Speaker 4: or three years ago, and during that time I was

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Speaker 4: actually doing a lot of podcasts and stuff, and I

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Speaker 4: was kind of gotten. I had gotten burnt out on him,

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Speaker 4: so and I declined then, but here I am now,

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Speaker 4: so hey, no worries.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad that we're finally making it happen. And you know,

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Speaker 2: better late than never, And sometimes when you got to

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Speaker 2: wait for something, it's that much sweeter when it actually happens.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm looking forward to this. The reason why Nathan,

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Speaker 2: I especially wanted to have you on now at this

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Speaker 2: point is because we're starting a series this month of September.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of folks that are kicking off their

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Speaker 2: hunting season, maybe right now or quite soon here over

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Speaker 2: the coming weeks, and I wanted to do a deep

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Speaker 2: dive into the critters that fascinate us the very most.

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Speaker 2: I think for most serious deer hunters, it's those biggest, oldest, gnarliest,

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Speaker 2: most mature deer that keep us up at night. Right

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Speaker 2: And from everything I've seen from you, videos and podcasts

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Speaker 2: I've listened to, and things I've heard from friends of

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Speaker 2: ours mutual friends of ours, you've got a almost a

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Speaker 2: sixth sense when it comes to what these old public

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Speaker 2: land mountain bucks want to do. You understand them better

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Speaker 2: than a whole lot of people out there, And so

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Speaker 2: that is why I wanted to bring you on here

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Speaker 2: today to talk about that, to share with us what

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Speaker 2: you've seen, to share with us the behaviors you've witnessed,

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Speaker 2: the quirks and personality traits and tendencies that you've picked

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Speaker 2: up over the years as you've you know, scouted for

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Speaker 2: these kinds of deers, you've watched these kinds of deer,

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Speaker 2: and of course you've you've killed a whole bunch of

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Speaker 2: them too. So that's my hope for the game plan today.

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Speaker 2: Does that sound like something that that you're into talking about.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, that's that's what I ate, uh and uh

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Speaker 4: dream and sleep about, you know. So just lucky a

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Speaker 4: lot of you guys exactly. Matter of fact, most of

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Speaker 4: my life obsessed and over the darn things.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, we uh, we're on the same page there.

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Speaker 2: So what is it. There's a whole bunch of reasons

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Speaker 2: why I obsess over a deer like that. But what

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Speaker 2: is it for you about those oldest mountain bucks out

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Speaker 2: there that make them just like stick in your craw

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Speaker 2: and make you think about them late at night and

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Speaker 2: every day every week of the year. Why why is

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Speaker 2: it that these oldest deer, these biggest oldest deer stand

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Speaker 2: out for you in your in your world.

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Speaker 4: I think it's just their nature. Uh, I mean, they're

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Speaker 4: they're quirky animals. Uh, They're they're not like the rest

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Speaker 4: of the deer. They do things totally different. So, and

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Speaker 4: each and every one of them are different between them.

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Speaker 4: You know, they're not only different from deer, but they're

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Speaker 4: different from each other and just have such different personalities

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Speaker 4: and and do things differently. So it's just always a

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Speaker 4: riddle or a puzzle that you're trying to figure out.

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Speaker 4: And and that's one of the biggest attractions that they

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Speaker 4: are for me.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's plenty of just deer out there that

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Speaker 4: we can go out and hunt and stuff, but you

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Speaker 4: know it, they're not nearly as difficult to well to

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Speaker 4: figure out outer get within bow range like the you know,

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Speaker 4: these big older age class bucks are. So I think

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Speaker 4: that's what the attraction is for me. And plus once

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Speaker 4: you kiel one of them and you walk up on

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Speaker 4: his lifeless body laying there and realize what you've got.

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Speaker 4: I mean that they look different, you know, they they're

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Speaker 4: just a different animal. So but once you do that,

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Speaker 4: you know it's your runt after that. Yeah, men, they

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Speaker 4: are they're impressive on so many fronts.

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Speaker 2: You know. It's like you said, there's there's the mental

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Speaker 2: side of the back and forth, the mental chess game

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Speaker 2: you've got to play. And then to your point, like

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Speaker 2: physically you can't help but just be kind of taken

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Speaker 2: aback when you actually see a truly all buck in

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Speaker 2: the flesh, I mean, they're just I mean, I've always

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Speaker 2: I've wanted to make a point, you know, in these

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Speaker 2: conversations and when I talk to folks, especially when you've

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Speaker 2: got newer hunters around, to not make someone feel like

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Speaker 2: they should feel pressured to try to, you know, target

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Speaker 2: a deer like that, right, like any deer is an

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Speaker 2: incredible accomplishment. Yes, it's a heck of a challenge for

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Speaker 2: a lot of people, but there's certainly nothing wrong with

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Speaker 2: getting excited about those deer when they do get to

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Speaker 2: that point. And and like you said, like once you

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Speaker 2: do go down that road, it's really hard to turn back. Yes, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: from your experience, when do you think on average a

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Speaker 2: buck kind of switches into mature buck gear? You know,

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Speaker 2: like when I've heard a lot of people talk about this,

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Speaker 2: and I think I've seen it too, where you know,

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Speaker 2: when a buck becomes a truly mature they almost become

294
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Speaker 2: a different species. It's like a different animal from all

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Speaker 2: the rest of the deer out there. At what age

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Speaker 2: in your neck of the woods, would you say that

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Speaker 2: usually happens when there's like a big shift in behavior

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Speaker 2: and how they act. Is that you know, what age

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Speaker 2: jump do you think that happens at.

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Speaker 4: I think that would be as far behavioral four and

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Speaker 4: a half on average, and body wise it would be

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Speaker 4: five or six. You know. I think our books in

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Speaker 4: our mountains show their age a little bit later in

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Speaker 4: their life than say a Midwestern deer does. And I

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Speaker 4: think that it has a lot to do with just

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Speaker 4: the food. You know, they just don't have as good

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Speaker 4: a food here in the mountains as they do in

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Speaker 4: the Midwest, where you know, got corn and beans and

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Speaker 4: everything else. So just be like a person, you know.

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Speaker 4: I think a person that has a lot more food

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Speaker 4: available to them, you know, they put on weight more

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Speaker 4: and they'd show their age a little bit more. And

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Speaker 4: I mountain deer tend to stay leaner, you know. But

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Speaker 4: you know, but as far as mentality, I would think

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Speaker 4: four and a half you know, to five somewhere through there.

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Speaker 3: So that's mostly what I saw see anyway, what's the.

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Speaker 2: And I know it's gotta be a lot harder and

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Speaker 2: maybe impossible in the areas that you're hunting in Virginia

319
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Speaker 2: and Ohio and stuff like that compared to someone in

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Speaker 2: the Midwest. But have you ever you know, put an

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Speaker 2: estimate on a deer as far as age that got

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Speaker 2: up past that five years old? Six years old? Like

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Speaker 2: were you've seen it year after year or had pictures

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Speaker 2: of any of this deer? What's the oldest buck you

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Speaker 2: think you've been able to get some time with hunting

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Speaker 2: and chasing.

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Speaker 4: I'm probably hunting one of them this year. To be

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Speaker 4: honest with you, I've hunted a lot of bucks in

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Speaker 4: the seven to nine year old range, and I killed one.

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Speaker 4: It's been twenty nineteen. I think he was eight and

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Speaker 4: a half. He was just an ancient buck and man,

332
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Speaker 4: you should well you could look back through my Instagram

333
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Speaker 4: pictures and see pictures of him. But he was just

334
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Speaker 4: an absolute horse of a deer. But yeah, you know,

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Speaker 4: every year I've always got you know, five six seven

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Speaker 4: year old deer to hunt. Matter of fact, this year,

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Speaker 4: the biggest buck that I'm hunting, he is actually only

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Speaker 4: four and a half to five and a half, but

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Speaker 4: he's the most impressive deer. And then I got a

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Speaker 4: six and a half year old that I'm hunting, and

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Speaker 4: then I got a buck that he's any where between

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Speaker 4: eight to ten that I'm hunting.

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Speaker 2: So so you said that the biggest jump, like the

344
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Speaker 2: biggest change is like somewhere around that like four and

345
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Speaker 2: a half year old period.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but is there.

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Speaker 2: Any you know, between that four and a half and

348
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Speaker 2: that nine range that you mentioned there or whatever is

349
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Speaker 2: or ten? Is there any other major change, Like is

350
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Speaker 2: there another shift from seven to eight or is there

351
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Speaker 2: is there another tier up there at the tippy top

352
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Speaker 2: for those very very oldest deer when it comes to

353
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Speaker 2: like they start to act differently. Do those eight and

354
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Speaker 2: nine year olds do something different than your four and

355
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Speaker 2: five year olds on average?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would definitely say on average they do. They

357
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Speaker 4: just become extremely reclusive. It's it's almost like they they

358
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Speaker 4: they don't even associate with the rest of the deer.

359
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Speaker 4: Heard they just have their They it's like they live

360
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Speaker 4: a completely different or separate life from the other deer.

361
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Speaker 4: And uh, they can those type of deer are very

362
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Speaker 4: very hard to locate. Uh, They just kind of lurk

363
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Speaker 4: around in the shadows and uh. And they're even hard

364
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Speaker 4: to pick up on trail camera a lot of times

365
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Speaker 4: because that they just move differently and use the areas differently,

366
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Speaker 4: and I think it's on purpose to avoid other deer.

367
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Speaker 4: So if you've got your trail cameras focused on the

368
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Speaker 4: majority of the deer sign like most people do, then

369
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Speaker 4: those bucks will live undetected, you know. And and it

370
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Speaker 4: takes special I wouldn't say special tactics, but it takes

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Speaker 4: special thinking outside of the box, you might say, to

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Speaker 4: be able to put yourself in position to get one

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Speaker 4: you know on your trail camera, or even more yet,

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Speaker 4: see one you know.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, do you have any example that comes to

376
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,719
Speaker 2: mind of a deer like that? I'm just curious if

377
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Speaker 2: there's a buck that you could use to paint a

378
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Speaker 2: picture of, like what one of those alternative lifestyles of

379
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Speaker 2: these oldest bucks might look like. Is anything going on?

380
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Speaker 3: Yeah?

381
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I can think of one right off the bat.

382
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Speaker 4: And nobody ever killed this deer as far as I know,

383
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Speaker 4: he lived to probably and who knows, the darn deer

384
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Speaker 4: might be still alive now because he hasn't there's he

385
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Speaker 4: hasn't been seen, no trail camera photos of him in

386
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Speaker 4: two years now.

387
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Speaker 3: And but two.

388
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Speaker 4: Years ago the deer was probably eight to nine years old.

389
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Speaker 4: And I've got two sheds off of him. I've got

390
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Speaker 4: a couple buddies that have some sheds off of him.

391
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Speaker 4: And he lived in a fairly hard hunted area. And

392
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Speaker 4: and nobody ever seen that deer, you know, and other

393
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Speaker 4: than just a few sheds and every now and then

394
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 4: somebody gettinghim getting a trail camera picture of him. You know,

395
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Speaker 4: you would never knew that he even existed there, you know,

396
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 4: but the topography and just the habitat there kind of

397
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Speaker 4: lends itself for a big buck to you know, be

398
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Speaker 4: able to do that too.

399
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Speaker 2: So what was that you know, what was that topography?

400
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 2: Like what kind of place did that buck hole up in?

401
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Speaker 3: Huh?

402
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Speaker 4: Well, I really, I really don't want to speak too

403
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Speaker 4: much about this particular deer because there is another one

404
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 4: in there right now. But you know, the he just

405
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 4: lived in the higher elevation, and he lived on the

406
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 4: north side of a mountain and it was just, you know,

407
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Speaker 4: very remote from everywhere else.

408
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Speaker 2: So so one of the things you mentioned that these

409
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Speaker 2: bucks when they get a lot older that become more reclusive.

410
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Speaker 2: But one thing I've heard a lot in the Midwest

411
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Speaker 2: is that these really old bucks really not only become reclusive,

412
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Speaker 2: but they tighten up their core area more and more

413
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 2: you hear about these bucks like living in smaller and

414
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: smaller and smaller areas in this big woods, mountainous habitat

415
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Speaker 2: where I'm imagining some of these bucks travel quite a lot.

416
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: Does that happen with these big old deer by you two?

417
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Speaker 1: Yeah?

418
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Speaker 4: But now that I think that really comes back to

419
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 4: personality of bucks too. Some of them are roamers and

420
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 4: others are homebodies, and I see that a lot too.

421
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Speaker 4: You know, I've seen older age class bucks that have

422
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 4: a lot larger home range than others, and than some

423
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 4: their home ranges really small. Matter of fact, one of

424
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 4: the bucks that I'm hunting this year, he has, matter

425
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 4: of fact, will actually two bucks out of the three

426
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 4: that I'm hunting this year have really small core areas,

427
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 4: and they hardly ever leave out of them. As a

428
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 4: matter of fact, one of them, his core area is

429
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 4: so small that if I had to put a size

430
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 4: on it, probably less than two hundred acres, and from

431
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:28,880
Speaker 4: probably early spring up until first of November. He hardly

432
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 4: ever leaves that wow. But now once he does leave it,

433
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 4: he doesn't come back to a springtime, but he doesn't

434
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 4: go very far. One thing that changes where that spot

435
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 4: is is the foliage. Basically, once the leaves are on

436
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 4: the tree, he's there, and once they're gone then he's not.

437
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 4: And he just shifts probably about a half a mile

438
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 4: and that's where he spends pretty much November, December, January, February,

439
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 4: March timeframe.

440
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: What would be and again I'm asking for a rough

441
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: estimate here, but on these mature bucks in the places

442
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 2: that you haunt, if a small core range like you

443
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: mentioned there was like two hundred acres, what would be

444
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 2: like an average core range for like the mature bucks

445
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 2: you typically you know, are chasing around. Is it substantially

446
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: bigger than that or kind of in that neck of

447
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: the woods.

448
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I would say, I would say, you know

449
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 4: what you've read about all your life, you know, a

450
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 4: good square mile would probably be pretty average for most

451
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 4: mountain bucks. You know, some of them are going to

452
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 4: be larger than that. I've matter of fact, I think

453
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 4: some that I've known have probably had home ranges, you know,

454
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 4: up to four or five square miles and those deer

455
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 4: are extremely hard to catch up with.

456
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: So you would you would prefer the homebody buck that's

457
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: got the tight core range.

458
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, just actually, yeah, you know where it's going

459
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 4: to be, that's right, And I prefer to hunt those

460
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 4: type of deer. I don't really spend much time on

461
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 4: a roamer buck. I mean, because I mean I'm a

462
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 4: working man. I don't have that much time to invest

463
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 4: in him to hunt him, you know. So I've got

464
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 4: to put my effort into wherever or whatever buck I

465
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 4: feel I've got the best chance of killing so and

466
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 4: obviously one that has a small core area is going

467
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 4: to be the one i'd pick.

468
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's talk about one of those or not

469
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: one of those. Let's talk about a home for a

470
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 2: super old buck. If you could. If you had like

471
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: a a paint brush set and a canvas in front

472
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: of you, and you were going to paint the perfect

473
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: core area home range for a seven year old mountain

474
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: buck in your area, what would be this setup, the

475
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 2: habitat the topography that you would envision being like that

476
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: ideal place. You could absolutely imagine a big, old stinky

477
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 2: buck wanting to live in I'd love to hear what

478
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: that picture perfect thing would be. I imagine that might help

479
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: folks understand what to look for when they're looking for

480
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: that kind of deer. So what in your mind would

481
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 2: that be.

482
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: Uh, just a lot of change in topography obviously as

483
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 4: far as elevation and structure to it. You know, you

484
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 4: can have too busy of topography because if the topography

485
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 4: is too busy, in other words, you've got too many

486
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 4: compounding train features and too many ridges, too many saddles,

487
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 4: too many benches, then you have too many places for

488
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 4: him to live. So, you know, just a good elevation change,

489
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 4: maybe a thousand feet, you know, that way, and once

490
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 4: you get on up into the upper part of that,

491
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 4: topography is going to be, you know, really rough and rugged,

492
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 4: and then you have some nice secondary ridges that flow

493
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 4: down out of that. And if I could draw up

494
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 4: of the perfect scenario, it would have some kind of

495
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 4: farmland at the end of or at the lower elevations

496
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 4: of that, you know, because one thing that I like

497
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 4: to see in the mountains is see what we depend

498
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 4: really on our acorn crop. And if there's no acron crop,

499
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 4: then the deer can be really hard to find. So

500
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 4: if you can find areas that back up against some

501
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 4: kind of farmland or something that we really don't have

502
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 4: agriculture here. We have a lot of cattle, you know,

503
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 4: a lot of open fields stuff like that. But you know,

504
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: if there's no acrons, then the deer's wanna make their

505
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 4: way onto you know, grassy type areas. So if you can,

506
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 4: if you can have a blend of both of those,

507
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 4: that would be perfect. You know, a nice farm down

508
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 4: low and you got a nice big high mountain ridge

509
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 4: backing behind you, you know, with some finger ridges that

510
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 4: lead down into those type of places. And and you

511
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 4: know around here the thick areas is mostly mountain laurel

512
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 4: and rhododendron, So a good mix of that with some

513
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 4: hemwalk and stuff, you know, and a couple of really

514
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 4: big drainages you know that he would use.

515
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 2: Okay, and do you need to have I know you

516
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 2: mentioned that some New Years you don't have the acorns.

517
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: Are they ever gonna post up in places where there's

518
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: not oaks or are there oaks kind of everywhere in

519
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 2: your area and they're they're depending on them, or are

520
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: there gonna be some areas that just don't have them

521
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 2: at all, and then they're deer deserts.

522
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 3: No, there's oaks.

523
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: Act actually everywhere, there's not a hillside around here that

524
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 4: does not have oaks, and predominantly red oaks, chestnut and

525
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 4: black oaks. We do have several white oaks obviously, but

526
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 4: they're they're mostly in the lower elevations and that's generally

527
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 4: the ones if they're gonna embarrass some acrons there, you know,

528
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: that's the ones that it's going to be like the

529
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 4: big feeder oaks that you see out in uh the

530
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 4: age of pastures and fields and stuff like that. So

531
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,719
Speaker 4: but uh, yeah, there's uh, you know, we've we've been

532
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 4: pretty fortunate. That's probably five years we've had a pretty

533
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 4: good acron crop. You know, it may have not been

534
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 4: an abundance, but there have been acrons around. So it's

535
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 4: not been too hard on the deer and it hasn't

536
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 4: been too you know, hard to locate them. But now

537
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 4: back to you know, previous years before that, I can

538
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 4: remember several years in a row that there was no

539
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 4: acrons and when and that's that's not.

540
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 3: A good situation for the deer.

541
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 4: And I don't you know, some people like that because

542
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 4: then it forces all the deer to the grassy areas,

543
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 4: and if you've got private land, then that can work

544
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 4: out pretty good for you. But you know, most of

545
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 4: us we've were hunting public it's like everybody else. So yeah,

546
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 4: uh so, you know that's what I'm saying about the

547
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 4: finding public land that backs up against some kind of farmland.

548
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 4: So you if a deer have no acrons, you can

549
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 4: at least know where they're going to and hunt accordingly.

550
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's go back to this imaginary big old

551
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: buck home. You painted a good picture there of what

552
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: that home mum look like, but let's talk a little

553
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: bit about like where his bedroom is in that home.

554
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: You know, I am at least imagine there's a lot

555
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: of scenarios where there's a deer herd spread out over

556
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 2: an area like this right. There's some does and fawns,

557
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: there's a dough family groups, there's some younger bucks. Let's

558
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: say there's a I don't know what the actual age

559
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: structure looks like in the area you're hunting, but let's

560
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: say there's a satellite buck or two that's in that

561
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: three or four year range. But then you got that one,

562
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: you know, old salty guy who's who's eight. What what

563
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: does that eight year old's bed hypothetically or you know,

564
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: typical spots he would bed. How would that look different

565
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: than where that three or four year old buck might

566
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: end up getting in this scenario you painted earlier. Could

567
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: you give me some hype. You know, obviously this is

568
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: all hypothetical, but if you could paint what that top

569
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: top tier bed would look like for the biggest oldest

570
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: versus the next tier down.

571
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 4: He's going to be up in the upper one third,

572
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 4: you know, on average. Now that's not always the case

573
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 4: because there again some areas and I personally like to

574
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 4: choose areas that have more than one older age class

575
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 4: buck and obviously that gives you more of a chance

576
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 4: to encounter one. And whenever that's the case, then those

577
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 4: bucks are forced to choose different areas. So you know,

578
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: I would think the buck that's the most aggressive or

579
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 4: the most dominant in the area is probably going to

580
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 4: choose the more premium type area. You know that he

581
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 4: likes the best and kind of force everybody else to

582
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 4: choose other areas. But you know, it's just like one

583
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 4: of the areas that I'm hunting right now, it actually

584
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 4: has some upper elevation. But surprisingly both the big deer

585
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 4: that I'm hunting there are using the lower elevation. And

586
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 4: that's a little bit different than what you see, you know,

587
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 4: but you got to hunt them where they're at. And

588
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 4: just goes back to personality. You know, some bucks, you know,

589
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 4: they're just all different. But on average, I would say

590
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 4: that most mature bucks is going to be betting in

591
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 4: the upper one third, you know, and you and you

592
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 4: hear that a lot, and it's it is.

593
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 3: True, you know.

594
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 4: And and I also found that generally, whenever I find

595
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 4: a big deer, he is on the northeast or any

596
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 4: combination of the two slopes. And I think that it's

597
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 4: because most of you family dough groups are on the

598
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 4: south faces and they like their their seclusion and they

599
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 4: choose you know, those type of areas that has less

600
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 4: deer in and plus it's cooler, you know, most of

601
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 4: the year, and and you know it's that's just where

602
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 4: I find them, so I think they're more comfortable there.

603
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Now, what about you know, the

604
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: wind direction, how is that impacting that bad decision for

605
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 2: a buck like that, he prefers the north side because

606
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: of what you just described. Yeah, can wind influence that

607
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: at all or is he gonna stick to that?

608
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 4: Because well, yeah, but most of our ridges here or

609
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 4: main mountains run east to west, so you have secondary

610
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 4: ridges that run off the south side, and you have

611
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 4: secondary ridges that run off the north side, So there's

612
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 4: always betting opportunity. You know, most of our winds is

613
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 4: coming out of the west. So if if I've got

614
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 4: a secondary ridge running off the north face and it

615
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 4: goes down there and a lot of them will have

616
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 4: a saddle in it, and then it'll kind of gnob up,

617
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 4: you know, create a knoll and then it drops straight off. Well,

618
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 4: if you've got westerly winds blown across that, if you'll

619
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 4: if you'll notice and you get in there scouting during

620
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 4: the wintertime, you'll see their beds off on that eastern

621
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 4: side of those secondary ridges.

622
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: And you know a lot of times.

623
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 4: They'll move over on the western side of it too.

624
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 4: You know, maybe if it's really cold and late in

625
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 4: the evening, you know, you've got the western sun shining

626
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 4: on that western edge or what have you, they'll move

627
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 4: because of it. But generally you'll find them on the

628
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 4: east side of those secondary ridges coming off the north

629
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 4: side so.

630
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: Okay, yep, that makes sense. Now, we talk a lot

631
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 2: about how mature bucks bed and unique things that they want.

632
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 2: Something you don't hear as much about, though, is if

633
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: and how mature bucks feed in unique ways compared to

634
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 2: younger deer. Have you noticed anything like that? You noticed

635
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: some trends on that front at all?

636
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 4: Yes, Shed hunting will really open your eyes up to

637
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 4: stuff like that. And the reason that I say that

638
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 4: is because you know years that we have a lot

639
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 4: of acrons. I'll use that as an example. You know,

640
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: you'll during winter time, which which is my favorite time

641
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 4: to get out and scout, You'll be scouting shed hunting,

642
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 4: and you're most people are gonna come across these areas

643
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 4: that are really tilled up. I mean it looks like

644
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 4: they've been a I don't know, eight or ten deer

645
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 4: and they've just tiled up an area, you know, sometimes

646
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 4: a few acres in size because they're feeding on the

647
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 4: red oaks, you know. But you never find big sheds

648
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 4: in those type of areas. And so what I've started

649
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 4: doing is that I will still look at those type

650
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 4: of areas, but I will focus more on areas like

651
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 4: little hidden hollows and stuff where you can tell that

652
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 4: just one or two deer have been feeding very little

653
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 4: feeding sign and generally that's where you're going to find

654
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 4: the bigger sheds and stuff. So that tells me that

655
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 4: those those big bucks again are separating their selves from

656
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 4: the other deer, you know, especially outside the rut. Now

657
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 4: deer in the rut, obviously, you know, these big bucks

658
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 4: they're going to be uh frequenting you know, areas with

659
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 4: higher dough populations. But aside from that, that's not the case.

660
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 4: You know, they they feed separate, they bed separate, and

661
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 4: and you know, if you can imagine, you know, a

662
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 4: buck betty Daddy's bachelor pad, it's just him. You know,

663
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 4: he gets up right at dark, he feeds a little bit,

664
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 4: and there again he's still by hisself. And you know,

665
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 4: of course once it starts getting closer to the rut,

666
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 4: then he's going to start making those big loops and stuff,

667
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 4: checking out the girls and stuff like that, and they're

668
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 4: gonna be laying down sign and that's where people is

669
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 4: going to start seeing their sign at. So that's where

670
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 4: they're going to start hunting at. That's where they're gonna

671
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 4: start putting up the trail cameras at and they're going

672
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 4: to be getting nighttime pictures of them, but in reality,

673
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 4: those bucks are not there, you know, they're they're often

674
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 4: a totally different direction, you know, so you know they're

675
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 4: bedding separate and they're feeding separate outside the rut. Yeah,

676
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 4: and that's what makes them so hard to locate.

677
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: So, so continuing that line of thought, that and what

678
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: about how they are traveling between those two places uniquely?

679
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: So again I've heard, you know, everything from you know,

680
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 2: the faint trail versus the large trail, to just above

681
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: the bench to just below the bench, to the way

682
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: they might use the just beneath the ridge versus the

683
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: tops of ridges. Like, what are some of the trends

684
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: you've seen with how these deer are actually traveling across

685
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 2: the landscape, Because it's pretty easy these days to read

686
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 2: topography and get a sense of how most deer want

687
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 2: to travel across the landscape right using some of those

688
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 2: terrain features in predictable ways. But is there anything unique

689
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: about those six, seven, eight year old bucks where they

690
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: go against the grain or against what we would expect.

691
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, that's another thing that makes them so hard

692
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 4: to set up on and most hunters don't kill them.

693
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 4: It is because most of these older age class bucks,

694
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 4: when they do move through topography top spots that we

695
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 4: choose to set up in, they generally don't travel through

696
00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 4: them like ninety percent of other day.

697
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 3: They will skirt around it.

698
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 4: And and a lot of times, you know that it'll

699
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 4: be on the down wind side, or maybe it'll be

700
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 4: on the side that has the most cover, you know,

701
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 4: but they'll they'll be clues left in those type of

702
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 4: places to let you know that they're doing that. You

703
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 4: just got to You've got to have the mindset to

704
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 4: look for it. You know, they're still going to leave

705
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 4: those big scrapes and you'll still see big rubs and

706
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 4: stuff like that in the traditional spots that deer a

707
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 4: moving through. And the reason they're doing that is they're

708
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 4: leaving their calling card, you know, letting letting everybody know, hey,

709
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,959
Speaker 4: I'm here. But most of that sign is done under

710
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 4: the cover of darkness. But outside of darkness, those bucks

711
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 4: are kind of skulking around or skirting around all that stuff,

712
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 4: you know. And uh, and I've seen it so many times,

713
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 4: especially hunting benches. You know, everybody loves good benches and stuff,

714
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 4: and I used to be really bad for setting up

715
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 4: on the bench because that had the heaviest sign on,

716
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 4: It had the biggest rubs, had the big scrapes, it

717
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 4: had the heavy deer trails.

718
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 3: I mean that.

719
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 4: You know, we've always been taught that's what to look for,

720
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 4: you know, But you set up in those places and

721
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 4: you never see the truly mature bucks move through those

722
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 4: places unless he's in the company of a dough. But

723
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 4: I started you know, when you're out there scouting and

724
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 4: stuff and you're looking, you know, you're not only looking

725
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 4: at the bench, you're looking below the bench, and you'll

726
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: find yourself above the bench and generally you'll find those

727
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 4: lightly used trails with a few decent rubs along those.

728
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 4: So what I started doing is kind of splitting the difference,

729
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 4: which is another mistake, but sometimes it works out. It

730
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 4: depends on how close the sign is. But you know,

731
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 4: you set up to where you can shoot the bench,

732
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 4: and you can shoot below the bench. Well, like I said,

733
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 4: sometimes that works out for you, but most of the

734
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 4: time the buck will be too far below the bench

735
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 4: and you and the best thing for you have done

736
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 4: is just went ahead and committed to hunting below the

737
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 4: bench or above the bench, whichever one is the right spot.

738
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 4: But yeah, you should always commit to.

739
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 2: It.

740
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 4: No words, to commit to one travel corridor instead of

741
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 4: trying to cover both unless they're with him bow range,

742
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 4: you know. So I hope that makes sense to everybody

743
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 4: out there.

744
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. I think to me at least, do

745
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 2: you look at every big, you know, terrain feature in

746
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: that kind of way? So if we're thinking of a

747
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: bench or a saddle, do you always assume, okay, they're

748
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 2: going to be off in a little ways and then

749
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: play off of that or are there some situations where

750
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: you're like, Nope, in this one, I'm gonna hunt to

751
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: shoot right at the saddle, but on this one, I

752
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 2: want to be sixty yards off.

753
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm sorry, go ahead.

754
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: I was just gonna be I was just gonna ask,

755
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 2: you know, can you give me a little bit more

756
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: insight into how you make that decision, like what the

757
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: specifics would be to get you on it versus off it?

758
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: Because I know we got to choose one or the other,

759
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: but how do we make that decision the best?

760
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 4: You know, A lot of it's just going to be experienced,

761
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 4: and a lot of it also how everything ties into that.

762
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 4: You know what, once you see these bucks move through

763
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 4: these type of areas, you know you're going to be

764
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 4: able to start picking that stuff out. But you're going

765
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 4: to have to be able to put yourself in that

766
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 4: position and actually see it with your own eyes. And

767
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 4: once you do that, then you're going to gain the

768
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 4: confidence to one put yourself down there, and two you're

769
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 4: going to be able to see it. And because once

770
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 4: you see something happen, it kind of helps predict it

771
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 4: the next time. You know, we're hunting their tendencies. It's

772
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 4: what we're doing. So the more times you tend to

773
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 4: see him do something other there, the more it's going

774
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 4: to help you to make that decision to hunt off

775
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 4: of that uh saddle or a bench or whatever. But

776
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 4: then there are times whenever you want to hunt the

777
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 4: heavy sign and I feel like that that is right

778
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 4: around that pea corrupt time whenever bucks are really you know,

779
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 4: giving up their guard and and and putting themselves you know,

780
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 4: out in the open more you know, and that. And

781
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 4: but now I warn you a lot of older age

782
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 4: mature bucks never do that anyway. Uh. They they they

783
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 4: don't put themselves in those situations. So, uh, but you know,

784
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 4: the best way that I can answer that is just experience,

785
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 4: you know, hunting a lot. And whenever you do come

786
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 4: up on a nice saddle or something other that has

787
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 4: the uh all the good sign that you like to see,

788
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,439
Speaker 4: don't set up on it, set up off to the side.

789
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 4: Make yours self do that, you know, just go down

790
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 4: there and look, you know, and uh, nine times out

791
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 4: of ten you're going to see some kind of sign

792
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 4: that he's leaving behind, that he has moved through there,

793
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 4: you know. And those type of spots require more patience too.

794
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 4: I'll be really honest with you, because you're not going

795
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 4: to see as many deer as you're going to see

796
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 4: up on that bench or coming through that saddle, you know,

797
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 4: so you're a lot of times you'll question, you know,

798
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 4: are you doing the right thing? But if the sign

799
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 4: is showing that he's coming through there, you need to

800
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 4: put your time in there and just trust you get

801
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 4: and uh and eventually it will happen. And once you

802
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 4: see it happen, then you'll you'll gain the confidence to

803
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 4: start doing it more often.

804
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

805
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 2: So with that in mind, one of the things that

806
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: I that I wonder a lot about hunting in a

807
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: situation like you're in. You know, that putting time into

808
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 2: a specific location and the balancing act there. You know,

809
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 2: here in the Midwest, super high deer densities. You know,

810
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 2: if I hunt a spot once or twice, there's twenty

811
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 2: thirty forty deer that you know might pass through there

812
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: and smell me if I'm not careful about what I

813
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 2: did in your neck of the woods. I'm assuming that

814
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: you know, it might be days before the buck you're

815
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 2: after passes through an area. Maybe maybe not, maybe wrong

816
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: about that, But how do you think about that kind

817
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: of volume of hunt decision for a specific location like

818
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: that when you're chasing one of these really old deer.

819
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 2: I'm assuming those really old deer, you know, don't put

820
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 2: up with a whole lot of human pressure. So I

821
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 2: would imagine that's something that you're worried about. But at

822
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: the same time, to your point, you need to be

823
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: willing to put in some time in a place for

824
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: them to finally come through. How do you think about

825
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 2: that or what does that look like for you when

826
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 2: when weighing those two sides of the decision.

827
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 4: You know, to be honest with you, I try to

828
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 4: avoid pressured areas. I think that is one advantage that

829
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 4: I have here in the mountains of Virginia. You know,

830
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 4: we don't have the hunting pressure like some of the

831
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 4: Midwestern states, you know, but obviously I'm not gonna hunt

832
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 4: where everybody else is going to hunt. And that's one

833
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 4: reason that those a lot of those older age class

834
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 4: bucks avoid those type of areas that most you know,

835
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 4: everybody's seeing the sign end they're setting up there, so

836
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 4: they encountering uh, human scent. Uh, they may even see

837
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 4: people in those type of places, So that's another reason

838
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 4: that they're going to avoid those type of spots. So

839
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 4: but uh, one thing that that probably goes against the

840
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 4: grain of a lot of conventional thinking or things that

841
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 4: you've heard, is that hunting pressure makes bucks go nocturnal,

842
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 4: and that that's actually not the case.

843
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: They're either nocturnal or they're not.

844
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:52,959
Speaker 4: And uh, and the reason I say that is because

845
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,280
Speaker 4: a lot of the older age class bucks that I hunt,

846
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 4: they are nocturnal and they've they've hardly been hunted, they

847
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 4: hardly ever see a person and uh, and they're still nocturnal,

848
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 4: so that that's not what's making them nocturnal. It's just

849
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 4: their personality. But hunting pressure of what it does is

850
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 4: it moves the deer around and uh makes some avoid areas.

851
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 4: So you know, that's that's the type of spous that

852
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 4: you want to start seeking out the top of places

853
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 4: that they're traveling through to avoid other people.

854
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 2: You know. So that that brings a question or brings

855
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: to mind the question of what does happen for you

856
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 2: when you find one of those nocturnal bucks he's nocturnal

857
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 2: not because of pressure, but because he's just that way.

858
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 2: Do you just move on to a different deer? Or okay,

859
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 2: so how do you hunt a buck like that, an

860
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: old deer who just is naturally nocturnal? In my world,

861
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 2: I would think, well, I'm just not close enough to

862
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 2: his core area then just getting nighttime pickture are not

863
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 2: close enough? Is that the case where you are too

864
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 2: or something?

865
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 4: Oh? Yes, yes, no, that that's exactly what it is.

866
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 4: These older age class bucks that you know, if I

867
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 4: could paint a picture of how their daily movement would be,

868
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 4: they do move throughout the day, but it is very

869
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 4: very short distances and really and truly if if you're

870
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 4: not within especially you know, coming up through October September,

871
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 4: October first, November, if you're not within two hundred yards

872
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 4: of where that deer is bedded, and in most cases,

873
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 4: I'm going to say less than that, you have almost

874
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 4: no chance of seeing that deer. So you have to

875
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 4: and that's the important part of winter scouting. You can

876
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 4: learn so much about individual bucks. And that's something else too.

877
00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 4: Once you start hunting individual bucks, you you will accelerate

878
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 4: your learning of old age class deer exponentially once you

879
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 4: start doing that, because you start you're forced to think

880
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 4: differently and scouting during the wintertime. You know, once you

881
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 4: find a specific buck that you want to hunt and

882
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 4: you go in there during the wintertime shed hunt and

883
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 4: trying to find his sheds, really picking apart his core

884
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 4: area or trying to find his core area. You know,

885
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 4: that's that's the most important part, and you just start

886
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 4: piecing everything together. You know, you're trying to find every

887
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 4: bit of evidence that you can that that particular deer

888
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 4: is leaving behind, and you're able to paint a picture

889
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 4: of where you know, most likely he's you know, spending

890
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 4: his day, daytime hours. And then once you figure that out,

891
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 4: then you start picking out the places that you think

892
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 4: that you can have encounters with him, you know, so

893
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 4: it's really not that difficult.

894
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 3: I know that it sounds.

895
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 4: Difficult and and the having the encounter is is difficult,

896
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 4: But figuring out where you need to be is not

897
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 4: that difficult. Yeah, and uh, and it just takes a

898
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 4: lot of scouting and uh and the best time to

899
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 4: do that is during the winter time.

900
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: How do you do you have any system for keeping

901
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: track of all of these data points or is it

902
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 2: all in your head? Like when I say data points,

903
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 2: I mean like all the things you're scouting and noticing,

904
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 2: all of the things that you're picking up when you're

905
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 2: out there hunting and observe something, all of the trail

906
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 2: camera photos that you get of these specific bucks. Do

907
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 2: you track it in any way? Do you journal? Do

908
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 2: you have spreadsheets? Do you have any kind of way

909
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: to organize this or do you just keep it keep

910
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 2: it top of mind?

911
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 4: No, I just keep it top of mind. I mean

912
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 4: I think about the darn things year round.

913
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 3: Now. I do use my mapping apps.

914
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 4: I use Spartan Forge myself, and uh, you know, I

915
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 4: wheel mark key features or key points. You know that

916
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 4: I think that I need to remember and something that

917
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 4: I feel like is important. And you know that those

918
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 4: type of things, you know, way heavily on where I

919
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,879
Speaker 4: feel like that I need to set up on him

920
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 4: or where I think that he's you know, at so,

921
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 4: but as far as journaling, know, I don't journal, you know,

922
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 4: I'm sure a lot of guys do that and have

923
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 4: you know, find good use out of it.

924
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 3: It's just something that I've never done.

925
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: Sure tendencies. We've talked about a number of different ways

926
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 2: we can try to pick up on a bucks tendencies.

927
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 2: And one of the things you mentioned for a lot

928
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: of these old deer is that they just do not

929
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 2: move a whole lot away from their bed in daylight.

930
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 2: But there are a lot of outside factors that deer

931
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 2: hunters like to debate about how they might impact a

932
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 2: deer's decision to get up and move on his feet,

933
00:50:54,719 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: stuff like temperature, wind, moon, precipitation, barometric pressure. Have you

934
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 2: seen anything like that uniquely influenced all bucks getting up

935
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: and moving during daylight? What's it look like in your

936
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 2: neck of the woods when it comes to is there

937
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 2: something that really does make a difference or is it

938
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 2: all kind of you know, a bunch of hope.

939
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 4: You know, I personally like cold bluebirds guys, and you know,

940
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 4: that's whenever I see most of my movement. I've never

941
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 4: been a very big fan of rainy days, you know,

942
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 4: I have just not seen that many deer on those

943
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 4: type of days. Now, I do like hunting after you know,

944
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 4: a good front moves through. And you know, of course,

945
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 4: now one of the bucks that I'm hunting this year,

946
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 4: and this is one of the only deer that I've

947
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 4: actually seen this with, but seemed like he likes to

948
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 4: move on days with some precipitation. I do get him

949
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 4: moving a lot, but he's one of the only deer

950
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 4: that I've ever noticed doing that. You know, I just

951
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 4: I don't think that our deer here in the mountains,

952
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 4: you know, I see you know, YouTube videos and stuff

953
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,479
Speaker 4: of guys in the Midwest hunting beans and corn and

954
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 4: the snow. You know, they're hunting times with a lot

955
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 4: of snow. You know, it's just pouring the snow and

956
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 4: the deer just piling into those type of places. You

957
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 4: don't see that here in the mountains. And I think

958
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 4: one reason is is just because we don't have the

959
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 4: right type of food to make him move on those

960
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 4: type of days. You know, I think that our deer

961
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 4: are just better off to hold up and wait it

962
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 4: out and not expend any energy. And once everything clears up,

963
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 4: then you know, move after the front has done a

964
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,919
Speaker 4: move through and things kind of start warming up.

965
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: So okay, that makes sense. I get there. So what

966
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 2: about time of year? You know, a lot of fo

967
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: folks don't like the rut for hunting the really old deer,

968
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 2: especially when they're trying to hunt one specific buck, because

969
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 2: it's hard to make predictions about what they're going to do.

970
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 2: But in your you know, in the scenario've been talking through,

971
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: that also might be one of the only things that

972
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 2: gets one of these deer moving a little bit earlier.

973
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,479
Speaker 2: When do you think the very best time to kill

974
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 2: a deer of this age is in the mountains that

975
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 2: you're talking about hunting?

976
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 3: What's that?

977
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 4: If you could pick like a week, what's that very

978
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 4: best week? A week I'm going to say first week

979
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 4: of December. I love October, and I think that's a

980
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 4: great time to kill a specific deer. But you know,

981
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 4: I'm like a lot of others, you know, if I'm

982
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 4: hunting a very specific deer, November is not my favorite

983
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 4: time to do that. If I'm just trying to kill

984
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 4: a good deer. Then, of course November is my favorite time.

985
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, I see a lot of the older age

986
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 4: class bucks on their feet the first week of December.

987
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 3: Trail cameras prove it.

988
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 4: Just hearing people talk about, you know, that they've seen

989
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 4: some giant you know, somewhere that they had never seen before.

990
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 4: And it's always during that time period, you know, but

991
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 4: that that first week of December is excellent, and even

992
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 4: up through up to Christmas, you know, you'll catch them

993
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 4: out moving around quite a bit during that time.

994
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 2: What do you think that is? Is that just you know,

995
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 2: just trying to get the feet on and pack on

996
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,839
Speaker 2: some energy before the end of or before the real

997
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: hard winder picks up, or is it that like post

998
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: rut trying to catch that very last you know, dough

999
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 2: that cycled in or something like that.

1000
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I don't think our winners are tough enough

1001
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 4: to form to be on any kind of a feeding

1002
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 4: frenzy during that time period. I feel sure that it's

1003
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 4: rut related because you catch them on scrapes during that time.

1004
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 4: It's like scrapes reopen up, you know. As matter of fact,

1005
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:08,919
Speaker 4: that one of the bucks that i'm hunting this year.

1006
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 4: He I caught him on a very specific scrape numerous

1007
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 4: times through December and even up into January, almost of February.

1008
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: So the rut brings up a I mentioned, or I

1009
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: thought about asking this earlier, but what about how these

1010
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: really old deer partaken the rut? You know, like, have

1011
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 2: you seen on average that these oldest deer get going

1012
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 2: sooner or later? Have you found some one phase of

1013
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 2: the rut or another is when they are more active

1014
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 2: than the other deer? What's that look like for you?

1015
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:48,320
Speaker 3: Does understand that?

1016
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, seems like the middle of November, you know,

1017
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 4: seem like younger age class bucks, you know, two three

1018
00:55:54,640 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 4: four year olds, they definitely get started earlier in the rut.

1019
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 4: And it's just like teenage boys, you know, they just

1020
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:08,439
Speaker 4: they're excited, they're not they're not educated, you know. There

1021
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 4: and these older age class bucks they've done, have been

1022
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 4: through all that, so they you know that, they really

1023
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 4: don't start showing up and making their presence known until,

1024
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 4: you know, generally middle of November. You know, whenever, thing's whenever,

1025
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 4: basically when the dose are ready, you know. And I

1026
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 4: really believe that a lot of these older age class bucks.

1027
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 4: Are you know that they they kind of have their

1028
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 4: what's the word, I'm looking for reputation you might say,

1029
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 4: in an area and you know, the dose know that

1030
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 4: he's there.

1031
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 3: And I believe a lot of the doves seek them out.

1032
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 4: And that's another thing that makes them older age class

1033
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 4: bucks so hard to kill, and even see it's because

1034
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 4: they're not having to do anything to get with those.

1035
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 4: A lot of times the dose I feel like, go

1036
00:56:58,640 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 4: looking for them.

1037
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Yeah.

1038
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: So all of that said, then I feel like what

1039
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:08,439
Speaker 2: I've been trying to do here is kind of paint

1040
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 2: a picture of like what these old bucks world looks like,

1041
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 2: how they operate, what their tendencies are, what some of

1042
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 2: their behavioral quirks are. And you have so much experience

1043
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 2: with these types of deer, this age of deer, that

1044
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 2: you've got a great You've been able to provide a

1045
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 2: lot of interesting insight into that. But the next question

1046
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 2: that this kind of leads to then is, Okay, so

1047
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: they do this and this and this, and they don't

1048
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 2: do that, that and that. How the hell do you

1049
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: kill one of them? Given all of that? Yeah, and

1050
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 2: so so my next question is just like patterning one

1051
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 2: of these deer like trying to figure out how to

1052
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 2: actually set up on a specific old buck like you're describing.

1053
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: And you mentioned that you're after like one or two

1054
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 2: really old deer like this this year. And I don't

1055
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 2: know if if you could use one of these deer

1056
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 2: as an example, or if you just want to use

1057
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 2: an old deer from the past as an example, but

1058
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 2: I would love to hear specifically, you know, what the

1059
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 2: steps are for you to put together, you know, an

1060
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 2: actionable plan for a buck like this. You mentioned, you know,

1061
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 2: doing the winter scouting. I know you use trail cameras.

1062
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: I know you're studying these maps and you're thinking through

1063
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 2: some of these different you know, personality traits of these dear,

1064
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 2: But I'd love to kind of hear some specifics about

1065
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: what that looks like and what is enough information for

1066
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 2: you to then say, Okay, this is the time, this

1067
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: is the place I'm going to make my move. Could

1068
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 2: you walk me through either a specific example or hypothetical

1069
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 2: like that.

1070
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll talk about a few different things here. This

1071
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 4: is going to be kind of a smorgas board of things.

1072
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 4: One thing that I do that helps me is I

1073
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 4: run my trail cameras on video mode all the time.

1074
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 4: You wouldn't believe what you will learn about a book

1075
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 4: just by running your trail cameras on video mode. And

1076
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 4: I'll give you an example. One of the books that

1077
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 4: I'm hunting this year, the one that I was hanging

1078
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 4: that I had on the scrape, you know, through December

1079
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 4: and January. Well, in one of the videos, I actually

1080
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 4: seen him use the bathroom, you know, leave turns right

1081
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,479
Speaker 4: there in the scrape. Well, I went immediately and looked

1082
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 4: at those droppings, and I learned to identify his droppings

1083
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 4: versus every other deer. And yeah, and so whenever I'm

1084
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 4: in there shed hunting and scouting, I'm able to identify

1085
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 4: exactly what trails this deer has been on, what trails

1086
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 4: he has not been on, areas that he has been in,

1087
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 4: and areas that he has not been in. So it's

1088
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 4: just stuff like that. And even you know, on the

1089
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 4: inside of his right main beam, he had a sticker

1090
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 4: that was about probably two inches long. I didn't find

1091
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 4: his right side, but I was able to locate his

1092
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 4: left side. But I just started analyzing the rubs and

1093
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 4: stuff in the area, and I was able to pick

1094
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 4: out what was mostly his rubs. Now you can't, you know,

1095
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 4: I identify everyone, but you know some are going to

1096
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 4: have that marking on it, you know. So it's just

1097
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,439
Speaker 4: really looking at everything through a microscope, if you want

1098
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 4: to call it, and just analyzing all the sign that

1099
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 4: you're coming up on, you know, and eventually you start

1100
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 4: to put together a picture of where this deer is using,

1101
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,919
Speaker 4: you know. And and something else about these older age

1102
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 4: class bucks is a lot of times that you know,

1103
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 4: they may be feeding in the same general type areas,

1104
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 4: but a lot of times they bed in a totally

1105
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 4: different direction. So you know, keeping that in mind, you

1106
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 4: know you're scouting, you're seeing the most heavy deer sign,

1107
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 4: and you know the direction that it's going back up into,

1108
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 4: well you need to check that out, but you also

1109
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 4: need to check out in other directions and you'll you'll

1110
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 4: soon realize that a lot of these these older bucks,

1111
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 4: they're coming from completely different directions. And so that that

1112
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 4: brings up another thing too. A lot of times, especially

1113
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 4: whenever you have agriculture low and bedding up high, and

1114
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 4: these deer coming off these secondary ridges down into these

1115
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 4: agriculture or form type areas. You know, throughout most of

1116
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 4: the season older age class bucks, their movement is going

1117
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 4: to be in parallel with the other deer. In other words,

1118
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 4: they're going to be moving top to bottom uh and

1119
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 4: and vice versa, just like the other deer are.

1120
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 3: But they might be just off the trails.

1121
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 4: You know, they're not going to necessarily be used in

1122
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 4: the same trails, but they're going to be moving back

1123
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 4: and forth in the same direction. But the closer it

1124
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 4: gets to rut, the more from UH, that's going to

1125
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 4: change from parallel to perpendicular in a lot of instances.

1126
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 4: In other words, those bucks instead of traveling up and

1127
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 4: down once they start looking for those, they're going to

1128
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 4: be cutting across those second ridges. And it's just a

1129
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 4: lot more efficient for him to locate those that are

1130
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 4: coming into estras that way. So, you know, just given

1131
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 4: the time of season is going to have a bearing

1132
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 4: on where I want to hunt that deer, and and

1133
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 4: my winter scouting, you know, of course, is going to

1134
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:21,760
Speaker 4: put me in the right locations because you know, I

1135
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 4: already know if I kill this deer, I know what

1136
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 4: trees I'm going to kill him out of. You know,

1137
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 4: So except for early season. Now, early season was a

1138
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 4: little bit different because of food. But once the leaves

1139
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 4: come off and we get into November and then even

1140
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 4: into December, you know, I know where he's going to be.

1141
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 2: So you mentioned cameras on the top there and mentioned

1142
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 2: that the run them on video. I've heard you say

1143
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 2: in the past that you run maybe seventy five percent

1144
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 2: of your cameras on scrapes, and that you run your

1145
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 2: cameras year round or close to it. Yes, okay, so

1146
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 2: I want to confirm that's true, and part two of

1147
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 2: that would be, can you elaborate a little bit more

1148
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 2: on where you're positioning these cameras. You know, I think

1149
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 2: a lot about when I'm setting cameras, not only trying

1150
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 2: to locate the bucks them after, but also not spooking

1151
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 2: them also now you know, putting them in a place

1152
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 2: where I'm not going to spook them coming in and out.

1153
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: If I have to do that, I might be thinking

1154
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 2: about other hunters. But you mentioned that you're hunting where

1155
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 2: there's not pressure, and so these deer very rarely encounter people,

1156
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 2: and maybe they rarely encounter cameras. So I'm curious does

1157
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 2: any of that cause you to do something different with

1158
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 2: your trail camera strategy or placement or anything like that.

1159
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I place my cameras in areas that I for

1160
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 4: the most part, do not intend to hunt because all

1161
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 4: I want to know is, well, you know, I just

1162
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 4: want to verify that he's there, and I want to

1163
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 4: know what he looks like. My scouting is going to

1164
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 4: tell me where I need to hunt him. You know,

1165
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 4: I don't need to run trail cameras back in close

1166
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 4: to his core area or anything like that. And the

1167
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 4: type of and and like I said, I run most

1168
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 4: of my cameras on scrapes. I'm looking for those annual

1169
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 4: scrapes there that have multiple liking branches, multiple multiple bucks

1170
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 4: are going to be heating and uh, but that those

1171
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 4: are type of scrapes that I put my cameras on.

1172
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 2: Any anything as far as the height of your cameras

1173
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 2: or do you are you okay just put them smackedab

1174
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 2: in front of the deer uh FEI the.

1175
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 3: Way, No, I try not to do that.

1176
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 4: I don't want my cameras to be obnoxious, you know,

1177
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 4: I want them to because now some some bucks do

1178
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 4: shy away from them, you know. Uh. There again it

1179
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 4: goes back to personality some of them. It doesn't bother

1180
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 4: them at all, but some it does, and uh, I

1181
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 4: just don't take that chance. I make sure that my cameras,

1182
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 4: you know, I probably put my cameras probably a round

1183
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 4: eight feet high and uh there again, I put them

1184
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 4: in locations that I can you know, sneak in check them,

1185
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 4: uh and uh and be able to get back out

1186
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 4: without messing up in my chances of killing that deer,

1187
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 4: you know, because you know, checking your trail cameras and stuff,

1188
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 4: and you know you're leaving human sit around and you

1189
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 4: know that that that's that's not gonna cause him go nocturnal,

1190
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 4: but that will make him not want to be there

1191
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 4: during daylight hours in that particular spot. You know, there's

1192
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 4: a difference between a nocturnal buck and uh where he

1193
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 4: moves during the daylight versus during the dark. You know, truly,

1194
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 4: there's no such thing as a nocturnal buck because they

1195
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,479
Speaker 4: they all will move, but it's just they they won't

1196
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 4: visit certain areas during the daylight they you know, and

1197
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 4: I find that scrapes are areas that they don't like

1198
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 4: to visit during the daylight. Not not in not where

1199
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 4: I hunt anyway. Now Ohio is completely different there, but

1200
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 4: now here in Virginia in the mountains.

1201
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 2: Uh.

1202
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,439
Speaker 4: From my experience, I get very very few uh camera

1203
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 4: pictures of bucks in the daylight.

1204
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 2: Do you have any guess as to why that is

1205
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: different in Ohio versus where you are?

1206
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 3: Huh? Not really? I mean, I don't know why.

1207
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 4: I've got a guess on why my bucks here in

1208
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 4: Virginia don't like to visit scrapes during the daylight. I

1209
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 4: feel like that if it's a very specific thing that

1210
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 4: those bucks don't want to be standing there for some

1211
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 4: reason in the daylight, they'll be around, you know, because

1212
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 4: I've actually seen this. I've seen I've been hunting a

1213
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 4: scrape before, and I have seen a buck feeding under

1214
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 4: a white oak or read whatever, you know, just an

1215
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 4: oak out from me seventy five to hundred yards and

1216
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 4: be therefore, you know, an hour before it gets dark.

1217
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 4: But he would never venture over to that scrape. But

1218
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 4: as soon as it gets dark, you can hear him

1219
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 4: walk straight over to it and he'll work it and

1220
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 4: everything else sthing he walks off, you know. But it's

1221
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 4: most like they don't want to go to a very

1222
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 4: specific thing like a scrape during the daylight.

1223
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 3: Now, why they want to be that way, I.

1224
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 2: Don't know, strange And is that unique to those mature

1225
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 2: bucks or do you see that with like all the

1226
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 2: bucks and you.

1227
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 4: Honestly that you know it's you know, bucks even as

1228
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,479
Speaker 4: young as three, but especially once they start getting four

1229
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 4: years old and older, then yeah, for sure those deer.

1230
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 2: Interesting you mentioned scent, leaving your scent on the ground

1231
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 2: and when you're walking in check cameras. You know, these days,

1232
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 2: it's kind of trendy within the world of like DIY

1233
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:45,479
Speaker 2: deer hunters, especially public land deer hunters, to say, send

1234
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 2: controls for the birds. You just got to play the wind, right.

1235
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people that kind of like brag

1236
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 2: about how they don't practice any kind of send control

1237
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 2: because they can just they can understand the wind really well. Right,

1238
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 2: But I noticed that that's not the case for you.

1239
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 4: You seem to take it serious, can you? I want

1240
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,920
Speaker 4: to answer that really good.

1241
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 3: Listen.

1242
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:11,919
Speaker 4: You spend all this time, money, and effort to scout

1243
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 4: and find these places. Why in the world would you

1244
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:21,759
Speaker 4: be so lazy to skip one of the simplest things,

1245
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 4: sink control.

1246
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 3: Uh, you know it. To me, it's just laziness.

1247
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 4: But at the same time, it's one of the most

1248
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,719
Speaker 4: simple things that you can do to protect where you're hunting.

1249
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 4: You know, you need to be able to get in

1250
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 4: and out of that spot undetected. If you can't do that,

1251
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 4: then you're going to burn that spot out. And here

1252
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 4: in the mountains, it takes two things. That is one

1253
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 4: of the most important things to be a successful big

1254
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 4: buck killer here in the mountains, if you want to say,

1255
01:08:56,160 --> 01:09:00,040
Speaker 4: is persistence and dedication and a lot of times that

1256
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 4: means putting a lot of time in very specific spots.

1257
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 4: And if you can't get in and out those spots

1258
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 4: without leaving a bunch of scent uh and trashing up

1259
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 4: the area, then uh, why would you know you're going

1260
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 4: to be sitting there for hours and days on end

1261
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 4: and uh and just you know for for not so

1262
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 4: why would you skip that step? Because trust me, I

1263
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 4: have been doing this for years. And you can play

1264
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,559
Speaker 4: out play the wind all you want. I play the wind,

1265
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 4: but you cannot always predict where the deer is going

1266
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:38,720
Speaker 4: to come from. That is impossible. They don't always come

1267
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 4: in with the nose their or their nose to the wind.

1268
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:43,120
Speaker 3: Uh.

1269
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 4: And they don't always come in with their the wind

1270
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 4: blowing from their tail forward. You know, you just don't know.

1271
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 4: So the best practice is to practice sin control to

1272
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 4: the best you humanly can. You know, I just don't

1273
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 4: understand these guys that don't take it any more serious

1274
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 4: than what they do. You know, I've heard that a lot,

1275
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm right there with you.

1276
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 2: If there's there's so many variables outside of your control

1277
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 2: when you're trying to chase these deer, why wouldn't you

1278
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 2: want to have one of those things you can control

1279
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 2: that you do have one hundred percent control for. Why

1280
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:26,640
Speaker 2: wouldn't you take advantage of that part to put a

1281
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 2: little bit more in your favor, to have that little

1282
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:33,640
Speaker 2: insurance policy? Like you said, it seems like an elaborate

1283
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:35,360
Speaker 2: excuse just not to do the work.

1284
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:36,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

1285
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 2: So, speaking of impact we make in the woods, there's

1286
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 2: there's scent, there's your cameras, there's how many times you hunt.

1287
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 2: We've talked about all those so far. But what about

1288
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 2: the impact that something like calling or rattling might make

1289
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 2: when it comes to these extra mature mountain bucks. You know,

1290
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,720
Speaker 2: would you ever call a rattle to a seven year

1291
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:01,839
Speaker 2: old eight year old buck in the mountains of Virginia

1292
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:05,280
Speaker 2: or Ohio. How do you see them reacting to that

1293
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:07,160
Speaker 2: kind of thing when we're talking about like a super

1294
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 2: mature deer compared to a two year old.

1295
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 4: Uh in Ohio. I would I would definitely call to

1296
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 4: those deer. I've had positive that. Now I don't do

1297
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:21,759
Speaker 4: any rattling. But now I've had, you know, some positive

1298
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 4: experiences with bucks in Ohio, you know, But now here

1299
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 4: in Virginia in the mountains, I don't call to him.

1300
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 4: The only time that I ever called to a buck

1301
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 4: here in the mountains is if he if he is

1302
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 4: going to you know, going away from me, or you know,

1303
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,640
Speaker 4: in other words, if I know that I'm not going

1304
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 4: to get an opportunity at him, I'll blow agrunk call

1305
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 4: at him a few times in hopes that to turn

1306
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 4: him and get his curiosity up and bring him down there.

1307
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 4: But other than that, I don't do any blind calling.

1308
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 4: I don't do any rattling. I just prefer to sit silently,

1309
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 4: you know.

1310
01:11:55,640 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeh, all right, Nathan, I've got two last questions for

1311
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 2: you before you wrap this up. Kind of want to

1312
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 2: tie a bow on this if you had to, and

1313
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: I'll give you a second to think this through. But

1314
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:14,559
Speaker 2: if you had to like write the three Commandments of

1315
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 2: Nathan killing when it comes to understanding and hunting old

1316
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 2: old bucks like your top tiered salty dog deer. What

1317
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 2: would that, like those three commandments be if you had

1318
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,720
Speaker 2: to drill down to the very three most important things

1319
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 2: you understand about these deer or that you must do

1320
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 2: to get a crack at these deer. What do you

1321
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:39,519
Speaker 2: think those three things would be? The things that if

1322
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 2: they remember nothing else today, they have to remember these

1323
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 2: three things. What would those be?

1324
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:48,799
Speaker 3: Number one would be hunt them differently. They're different.

1325
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:53,599
Speaker 4: You can the chances of you killing more than one

1326
01:12:53,720 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 4: mature book in your lifetime be Hunting deer is very

1327
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 4: very slim. You have to hunt them as individuals. Number

1328
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 4: two would be do your winter scouting. I don't you know.

1329
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,679
Speaker 4: I see guys scouting right now. They're scouting their hearts out,

1330
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:16,839
Speaker 4: and I'm not. You know, My scouting was done before

1331
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 4: the leaves came on the trees. The only thing that

1332
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 4: I do this time of year is round Montreal cameras,

1333
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,559
Speaker 4: and they're in low impact areas and I'm only looking

1334
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 4: to see what he looks like now and to verify

1335
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 4: that yes, he's still alive. So I stay out of

1336
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:35,759
Speaker 4: the woods, you know. And I want to say number three,

1337
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 4: persistence and dedication. The older age class bucks are not pushovers.

1338
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 4: It takes time and a lot of effort. You just

1339
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 4: got to keep going and keep going and keep going,

1340
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 4: and hunt smart. Don't get lazy, don't get sloppy. You've

1341
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 4: got to be cistant, and you've got to be very

1342
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 4: precise at how you hunt these deer.

1343
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:11,799
Speaker 2: So yeah, all right, Well, I'm gonna get those carved

1344
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 2: in stone, and I'm gonna send out copies of the

1345
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 2: tablets across the country for folks to make sure they

1346
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 2: don't forget this. But tell me this, Nathan, I gotta

1347
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 2: believe in your many years of chasing these deer and

1348
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 2: getting to know these old bucks, I'm sure they've taught

1349
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 2: you a whole lot. I'm sure that you've probably learned

1350
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,720
Speaker 2: a whole lot from the deer themselves. So I'm curious

1351
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 2: if you could think back, is there any one specific

1352
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 2: big old buck that stands out in your memory as

1353
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 2: having taught you either the most important lesson or the

1354
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 2: most lessons. Can you think back to any specific example

1355
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:53,839
Speaker 2: of a deer that taught you something really, really important

1356
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 2: and if you can think of a buck like that,

1357
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 2: could you share with us, you know, the story of

1358
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 2: what that buck, what that buck taught you, and how

1359
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 2: you learned that lesson.

1360
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 4: It would probably be a buck that I didn't kill.

1361
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 4: I've got some sheds off of him, and I would

1362
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 4: get pictures of him up until about October, well September,

1363
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 4: and then it's like he just disappeared. And then but

1364
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:23,640
Speaker 4: yet once season was over, I was always able to

1365
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 4: locate his sheds and they would be there.

1366
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 3: And uh, but.

1367
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 4: I guess that lesson would be is is, most of

1368
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 4: the time, whenever you think that they're going, they're not.

1369
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 4: It's just they're doing something different than what you think

1370
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 4: that they're doing. And that just goes right back to

1371
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 4: if you're not, you know, to doing things differently to

1372
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 4: get on these older age class bucks because they're again

1373
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:51,639
Speaker 4: they're different.

1374
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1375
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's such a hard thing to put into

1376
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:58,799
Speaker 2: action though for a lot of us, right, yeah, because

1377
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 2: you want to see deer, right and the sign often

1378
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 2: tells you, like where deer are, and your observations often

1379
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 2: tell well, there's deer here, and it's really hard to avoid,

1380
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,720
Speaker 2: you know what. Ninety five percent of all your observations

1381
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 2: and everything else tells you should work, but you're not

1382
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 2: looking for a ninety five percent deer. You're looking for

1383
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:21,360
Speaker 2: that top five or top two or top one percent buck.

1384
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 2: That's like you said different.

1385
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 4: Let me tell you one thing that probably changed the

1386
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:34,799
Speaker 4: course of my thinking as far as hunting older age bucks.

1387
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 4: And it wasn't any particular thing that happened. It's more

1388
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:42,639
Speaker 4: of an idea. But I was a lot younger, and

1389
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 4: you know, you would see people kill these big bucks

1390
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 4: and I wanted to kill one two. But one thing

1391
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 4: that I noticed is the real giants that were killed.

1392
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 4: And whenever I say real giants, I'm talking about the

1393
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 4: best bucks from my area. A lot of times we're

1394
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 4: killed by people that you nothing about deer hunting, and uh,

1395
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 4: they were hunting places that you would never hunt those deer.

1396
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,559
Speaker 4: And so that is one thing that got me to

1397
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 4: thinking about hunting areas with uh with the least deer

1398
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 4: sign and and and I believe that's that's one thing

1399
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 4: that changed my hunting is just realizing that, you know, hey,

1400
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 4: I'm hunting places that are just too deary, if that

1401
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 4: makes sense. I need to hunt the places that are buckey,

1402
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:35,160
Speaker 4: not deary.

1403
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1404
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is a big distinct, big distinguishing thing

1405
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,120
Speaker 2: right there. Yes, but but yeah, like you said, those

1406
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 2: big old guys, they don't want to be surrounded by

1407
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 2: a bunch of kids and moms. Right, that's the old

1408
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:51,280
Speaker 2: grumpy man. This is Clint Eastwood on the front porch

1409
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 2: saying get out of here, don't want to be by myself.

1410
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 3: That's a perfect analogy, Clint Eastwood. I like that.

1411
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 2: Yep, that's that's what we're looking for. Soh so with

1412
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 2: that image in our minds, and I guess that's a

1413
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,960
Speaker 2: good way to wrap this up. Nathan. For folks that

1414
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 2: want to follow along with your season or see anything

1415
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:13,639
Speaker 2: else from me, is there anywhere you would direct people

1416
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 2: to go or to connect with you any kind of way?

1417
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I'm just on Instagram. I'm a mountain

1418
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 4: hunter on there. You can search my name Nathan Kiellen

1419
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 4: or the Stick Boys. You know, I'm really good friends

1420
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 4: with those guys. I've got a few scouting videos on

1421
01:18:31,600 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 4: their YouTube channel and a couple of deer hunts. I'm

1422
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 4: no videographer or anything like that, but you know, you

1423
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:43,760
Speaker 4: can They've got some really good stuff on there too

1424
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:47,080
Speaker 4: that they've done, you know, so, but yeah, that's the

1425
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 4: that's the two places I'm I'm not real social, but

1426
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 4: I do that a little bit.

1427
01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:55,280
Speaker 3: So that's great.

1428
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:57,640
Speaker 2: I've checked out some of those videos and and I

1429
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 2: enjoyed them. There's a nice little bit of combination of

1430
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,000
Speaker 2: getting to see what you're doing in the field, but

1431
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 2: then also you explaining what happened or why you did things,

1432
01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:08,840
Speaker 2: or even a couple of them, there's some map breakdowns

1433
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 2: which are really helpful to see. So it's good stuff. Nathan, Man,

1434
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you taking this time to talk through

1435
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 2: all this and kind of let me take you down

1436
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:21,640
Speaker 2: the wormhole and into the minds.

1437
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 3: Of these big old deer. Yeah. Yeah, I enjoyed it.

1438
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:27,439
Speaker 4: I enjoy anytime anybody wants to sit and listen to

1439
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 4: me rattle on about them.

1440
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:30,800
Speaker 3: So me too.

1441
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 2: Well, let's plan doing again someday down the road, Nathan,

1442
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:38,439
Speaker 2: and hopefully we'll hear a new story or two about

1443
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:40,280
Speaker 2: that deer. You get a crack out hopefully here in

1444
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:44,080
Speaker 2: a couple of months or weeks. Yep, yep, all right,

1445
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:45,799
Speaker 2: good luck this year, Nathan.

1446
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,680
Speaker 3: All right, youtubo buddy, thank you all.

1447
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 2: Right, and that is a wrap. Thank you all for

1448
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:52,920
Speaker 2: tuning in. Hope you enjoy this one as much as

1449
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,639
Speaker 2: I did. We are getting into the season. It is real,

1450
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,839
Speaker 2: my friends. I'm kicking off my first hunt this week,

1451
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 2: so I will hopefully have a story for you very

1452
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 2: soon about some exciting hunts and, if nothing else, some

1453
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 2: lessons learned, which is always an important takeaway from each

1454
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 2: hunt that we can bring home with us no matter

1455
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 2: what happens at the end of the day. So best

1456
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 2: of luck out there as you get after it. I

1457
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,759
Speaker 2: hope you have a lot of fun, enjoy the process.

1458
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 2: The results will follow Until next week. Stay wired to Hunt.