WEBVTT - Preparing for a Layoff Tidal Wave #665 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.120 Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt, 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:06.560 and today we're talking about preparing for a layoff title wave. 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.040 Yeah, and maybe we're being hyperbolic here when we say 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.040 tidle wave, but really we chose title wave because I 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:34.400 know that you like title waves. Joel, do you talk 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.120 You mentioned still how I want to die. Yeah, yeah, 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.320 you mentioned how that is how you want to go, 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.280 except for the last time. Well I pointed out the 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.520 fact that then I would drown there are really tidal ways, 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.040 or you mentioned tsunamis, and I'm like, dude, tsunamis are 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.920 just kind of like the gradual. We're not gradual, but 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.320 it's a quickly raising of water off if there's is 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.559 caused by the earthquake, giant title wave. I don't want 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:55.760 to die by driving thinking of it slams me to 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:57.400 the ground, and that's how I go. That's what I want. 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.680 You wouldn't get coop slammed. Yes, it's hundred percent. You 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:02.520 don't want that, dude, that's terrible. No, no, no, You're 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.160 you're thinking of what was it Interstellar which space movie 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:07.959 and the landing on the planet and they're looking for 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.000 the mountains and there were not mountains that like that 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.880 that whole scene and they're just like thousands of feet tall. 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.039 That scene kind of blew my mind. But that's what 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:18.800 you're thinking of, that's the way to go. No, we 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.640 are going to talk about preparing for potentially getting laid off. 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.480 There's a lot that's happening in our current labor market. 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:27.960 There have been some rumblings, and we're going to get 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.280 to those and uh, specifically the steps that you need 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.080 to take both with your career but also with your 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.080 finances to make sure that you are ready to weather 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:37.760 that storm. Yeah, when it does arrive. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:39.480 For sure. Okay, quick question for you before we get 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.640 to that. The other day, so Selma, my nine year old, 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.600 she we talk about money here and there and kind 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:50.240 of trying to help her understanding as she grows up, spending, saving, 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.040 even starting to talk about investing too. But the other day, 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.560 randomly at breakfast, she was like, so, how much money 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:56.840 do we have? 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:57.160 Dad? 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:00.000 Like overall, not like how much is in your wallet 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.400 or but like like what is your network? She was 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.880 asking She didn't have that terminology, but that's basically what 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:08.680 she was asking me, and I was to give her 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.239 a number. Yeah, I would have been hesitant took toy 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.360 didn't but okay, I'm curious that you didn't do it. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:15.520 How would you respond to that question. 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.079 I would not have given it either. So I don't 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.200 see there being much good coming from a kid and 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.320 knowing how much money you got in the bank. Okay, 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:23.639 so I think I would be funny about it. I'd 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.320 be like, oh, we got ten million dollars in the bank, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.560 which by the way, is not anywhere near accurate. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:30.959 Sound that sounds right from what I've seen. 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.280 But no, I think, like, honestly, I question like that. 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:37.080 Maybe it's born out of curiosity, but I think oftentimes, 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.560 like kids are talking at school and maybe there's like 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:41.720 this dumb competition and kid they're trying to like one 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:43.920 up each other, and I don't see that leading to 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:47.800 anywhere good necessarily. And we've talked about how leaving a 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.160 fortune to your kids and how like more and more 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.080 I'm thinking that that is not something I want to 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.400 do because of the sense of entitlements and the ability, 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.160 the potential ability for that to keep your kids from 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.600 like becoming their own person and like going out and 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.440 making something taking risks that whole thing. I feel like 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.280 it could stemy their personal growth, is what I'm saying. 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:08.440 I don't remember who I was talking to, but I 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:09.640 was talking to someone the other day and we were 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.200 discussing how the best time for a parent to give 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.560 their kids money is in their thirties, like mid thirties 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.280 in particular, when they're having kids, buying a house, all 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.239 that kind of stuff, and by then, hopefully they're solidified 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.359 in their career and kind of in their their look. 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:26.400 E think they're the kind of person they're going to be, 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.080 and so it's not some sort of massive endowment or 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.040 bequeathments of like millions of dollars down the road when 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.960 that person is fifties sixties, it really helps them in 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.120 a time where that money is most useful. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.600 But it's basically like some down payment money for that house, 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:44.120 that first house. Yeah, see that being pretty helpful. 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.440 But it's also staving off entitlement, right like where if 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:50.440 you give it to too early, maybe they miss out 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.000 on some of that. But yeah, you're right, No. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.400 That's what I'm thinking of it. And even just knowing 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.119 that that money is there, I think could potentially keep 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:00.800 kids from really going out there doing something awesome with it. 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:02.720 So I think the key is, like you said, like 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.280 kind of to be coy about it and not reveal 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.320 a whole lot of information, like, hey, we have enough, 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:08.960 We've got a roof over our head. That was the 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.960 kind of the discussion that we like, you don't think 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:13.760 you shouldn't have to worry you, you don't need to 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:14.560 worry about anything. 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.440 Totally, we were doing great. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.680 But at the same time, like, I don't want her 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:20.960 to think that we've got you know, millions in the 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.160 bank to even though we have billions. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.560 Right exactly, Well, no, I totally agree. I think it 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.159 is important to make sure that they understand that they're 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.920 cared for, that they are being provided for specifically right 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.240 and so not only in the time and the intention 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.760 that we give them, but also the amounting the amount 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.240 of money that that we have on hand, providing that stability. 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.640 I think that's definitely a very important thing to communicate. 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:45.640 Good question, so exactly, you know, I love that she 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:47.440 asked it, and I don't want to shame her shut 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.279 her down with ye which, like it provides another chance 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.120 to have a conversation, even if I'm not giving her 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:54.040 the direct answer. 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:54.520 That she's hoping for. 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.240 So all those little money combos with your kids matter 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.480 and involving them more in those money decisions. I don't know, 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.440 maybe we should do a whole other episode soon about 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.440 how we talk to kids about money. It's been a minute, yeah, 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:06.520 but Matt, let's mention the beer that we're having on 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.000 this episode. This one is called Absolute Brightness. It's Biology 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.200 Brewing out of Tampa. Big thanks to Jamie and her 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.560 husband for sending us a couple beers. We appreciate it. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.800 That's right. Looking forward to sharing our thoughts on this 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:19.320 one at the end of the episode. I kind of 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.320 I dig the label. It's super basic, but it reminds 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.760 me of a Tycho album cover. You ever listen to Taiko, 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:28.000 Not really but electronic ambient artist, But it's got that 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.760 vibe for sure. Yeah. And it's like a digital analog 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.880 look going on, which, yeah, it kind of summarizes my 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:34.960 style perhaps. Yeah. 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.160 Well, and if you follow us on Instagram at how 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:38.880 to Money Pod, you can you can see all of 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.480 our beer cans, label labels, all the stuff we're drinking, 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.760 amongst other things. We've been creating a lot more content 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.119 on Instagram, by the way, it's not just beer cans. Yeah, 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.880 it's actual money content. There's actually some yeah that can 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.839 helpup full infographics up there as well, instead of following 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.200 people taking fake pictures on private jets, and you can 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.479 follow us for actual money saving info there. But let's 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.200 get onto the subject of handmat. We're talking about preparing 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.440 for a potential layoff, and I was just talking about 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.000 Selma and it actually prepared for this episode made me 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.200 think about how each of the kids I have, they're 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.680 all unique, and I think you have it in your 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.320 mind that you're going to be able to have a 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.560 big impact over how they turn out. And I don't 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:19.600 want to say that you don't have any impact over 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.840 how they turn out, but it's amazing how each kid 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.600 comes with its own their own distinct personality built in 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.480 kind of baked in the genes from the get go, 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.440 and they just have like certain hardwired predilections right that 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.240 we can't quite override. And so even though Emily and 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.320 I were trying to be intentional about what we're teaching them, 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.400 it doesn't mean that we can mold them in a 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.600 way that's kind of antithetical to that nature that they're 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.000 born with, and that nature versus nurture debate is endlessen 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.960 It's hard to know exactly how much can be chalked 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.080 up to either one of those things. But even given 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.200 kind of their their disposition, when they you know, kind 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.200 of come on the scene, we still have the ability 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.599 to mold them in some ways, in important ways. And 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.120 so there's a lot that I want my kids to 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.120 know before they fly the coop, before they head out 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.520 on their own. I want to prepare them for a 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.320 variety of circumstances that they might face. And even if 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.680 that process is vastly different than like updating a software package, right, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.120 it's it takes so much more intentionality and effort. Only 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.280 it was that easy, I know, right, kind of like 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.000 Neo and the Matrix and you upload something new and 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:22.800 then they just like. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.880 Boom, they get it. You're talking back, What do you 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.080 just get over here? Let me plug you in, press 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:28.880 a couple of buttons and fix you up. I mean, 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.840 those lessons like my input Emily and ized input, It's 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.400 still it still matters. And so yet the same thing 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.240 is true. I would say, when someone loses a job, 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.080 it's hard to know when or if it's coming, but 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.440 we still have the ability to prepare. There's like kind 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.240 of this element that's out of our control, this element 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:45.920 that's in our control, and we want to talk about 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:47.680 the element that's in our control today. That's right. Yeah, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.880 And we have a limited timeframe, right, Like we have 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:52.360 this window where we do have that input. This actually, 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.840 it kind of reminds me of my favorite parenting adage, 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.640 which is to prepare the kid, or prepare the child 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.560 for the road. Don't prepare the road for the child. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.640 And we don't know exactly like deep sun, you like that? 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:04.000 Yeah? 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.200 Have you have you heard that before? Oh? Really, it's like, 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:07.960 I don't know where it came from. It's not like 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.680 an individual. I think it comes from like culture specifically. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.360 The thing is like, we don't know exactly the types 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.360 of different crazy things that our kids are going to 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.880 encounter in the world. But the time to equip them 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.240 is now. And the truth is that layoffs are happening, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.520 and the time to prepare for that tidal wave, the 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.720 potential tidal wave is now. The FED rate hikes they 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.960 have continued to create more tightness in the economy. The 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:35.040 labor market. It's been pretty resilient for a long time, honestly, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.080 but that booming job market might be coming to an end. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.160 Maybe not abruptly, but it might kind of fizzle out 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.920 a little bit, you know, like these all time unemployment lows. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.320 They can't continue forever basically, but that could potentially lead 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:51.400 to you being without a job. The R word recession, 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.120 like that's being thrown around again as well. So will 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.240 it won't it? Is it gonna be a soft landing? 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:57.160 Who actually knows? 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:58.959 I don't think you can actually say the R word matter. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:00.880 It's kind of like Valdimore. You're not supposed to say 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.040 it all the way out. That's your contrary. 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.199 It's funny. It's funny that you mentioned that because literally 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.800 that's we are at that part in book seven. So 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.080 longtime listeners will know. We've been reading through all seven 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.599 books out loud with the kids, and they just discovered 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.839 that taboo of saying his name in the seventh book 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.360 and where it's times from. Well, no, like in the 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.960 earlier books, they don't like saying his name, but in 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.960 book seven, literally if you say it, it it lets 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.320 the death leaders know where he is. Such a slight 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:33.160 spoiler if you read the book, doesn't ruin anything, so 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.400 you'll get there. But you know, even if the economy 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.880 as a whole. Even if it doesn't tank anytime soon, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.600 there is always the possibility that your company or even 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.960 your specific department, that they could be looking to cut back. 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.360 And so we're gonna offer our thoughts on what it 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.839 looks like to prepare now making yourself not necessarily lay 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.880 off proof, but kind of like like layoff resistant, right. 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.439 I like that makes me think of like waterproof versus 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.480 water resistant. It's like two different terming out, Like if 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.400 you have to watch it's waterproof, it's like IP six 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.040 rated or whatever. You can die like its way down 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:08.600 deep and it's going to be fine, right, But if 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.560 you have one of the water resistance and you try 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.280 to like scuba die with it, a thing's going. 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:13.480 To be It's like, no, you're broke. As a joke, 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.000 you're only good for your thirty minutes at three feet. 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.280 Yes, sorry right, well yeah, and so it's important to 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.560 note that yet this isn't going to lay off proof 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.839 your abil, but it is going to make you more 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.720 less likely to be the first person on the chopping block. 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:28.160 But it's also going to make it so if you 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.000 do get laid off, hopefully the things we talk about 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.840 in this episode, so you're more prepared to handle it. 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.040 And I don't know, maybe there are some jobs that 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.760 are actually layoff proof Matt, like tenured professors in combat 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.440 congress people. Those are people that I think, but there 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.640 aren't many jobs like that that there's very almost no 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:47.439 potential for you to lose your job. But let's talk 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.560 about which industries are most at risk right now. This 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.520 can act like an additional heads up for some folks. 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:56.920 And so according to think tank the Conference Board, IT jobs, 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:01.280 transportation and warehousing, and construction are the sectors most at 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.320 risk of layoffs right now. And beyond that, the tech 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.680 sector has already been slashing its workforce in a big way, 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:09.560 and there might be even more to comme It looks 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:11.679 like there's there's even been more recent movements in the 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.080 tech sector to eliminate jobs. So yeah, if you if 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.800 you're in one of these arenas, you should probably be 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.280 even more aware of the possibility of a layoff coming 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:21.079 down the pike. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.120 Specifically in IT and technology right like didn't Meta call 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:28.720 twenty twenty three the Year of Efficiency made investors happy 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.520 because they had been taking on so many new employees 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.040 massive losses. Yeah, so after you know, like it was 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.959 basically like a post pandemic hiring boom, where like there 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:38.720 were a lot of folks who apparently were on the 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.280 payroll without actually having to, you know, anything to do, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.520 and like, these are folks and they admitted to that. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.040 Well, some of them were crazy posting videos about here's 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.199 what I do when I get to work. I get 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.959 my latte, but not really actually doing anywhere. We've got 0:11:49.960 --> 0:11:51.920 like a place you can a massage or like, And 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:53.680 I was, what are these what are the people at 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.080 Twitter doing all day? And no wonder it can survive 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.800 with so many less employees, That's right. 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.240 Yeah, So all of these different tech companies with way 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.439 too much money, they're finally cutting back. Google they recently 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.680 cut twelve thousand jobs. Amazon they're laying off twenty seven 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.360 thousand numbers of their team. Ten thousand folks are being 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.000 laid off from Microsoft and Boeing and those are some 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.320 hard numbers. But then like Ernst and Young Accenture, Disney 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.280 they just announced that there are going to be massive 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.400 layoffs coming here soon as well. How to money, they're 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.400 even laying off a couple guys, just one of THO hosts. 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.280 I'm not sure what you shoot one of us has 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.760 to outrund the other one. Hopefully hunger games, we'll get 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.400 to keep our jobs. But essentially the question here is, 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.440 are these tech companies the canary and the coal mine? Right? 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.640 Are they the cutting are they the leading edge of 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.520 more job losses that are likely going to come? Well 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.560 it's hard to say, but again, a record low three 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.160 and a half percent unemployment rate, it is not likely 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:47.960 going to last forever. That's why we want to make 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:49.680 sure that you are thinking ahead to this. 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.760 Now, well, let's talk too about the ever changing reality 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.720 of what layoffs look like, Matt, because the way they're 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.600 being conducted has changed massively, really just in the past 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.520 three years. And oh yeah, virtual layoffs happening more and more. 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.640 Those twelve thousand Google jobs, for instance, those folks found 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.680 out via an email, which like just didn't really happen 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.360 ten years ago, and some of those people had worked 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.920 at Google for decades. Can you imagine how demoralizing that 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.880 would be to be somewhere for twenty years? You can 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:20.440 you wake up to an email and you're like, oh, 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:21.440 I guess I'm out of a job. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.839 Like that sucks. That sucks. That shows a last one 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:25.760 thing if you'd just been hired like six months ago, 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:27.560 Like maybe I get it, but I don't know. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.800 Yeah, shows a lack of appreciation for the people who 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.480 have helped you get where you are. Sure, it's just 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:34.760 not cool, and it's especially in Google's case, it might 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:36.520 be a little evil, which is kind of what their 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.959 whole thing is against their own mantra. It used to 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.640 be their mantra, used to be the slow So yeah, 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.880 they've changed it now. It's understandably, so it's okay to 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:44.960 be a little evil, Yeah, because it sounds like they 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.520 are going down that path. But layoffs are just happening 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.320 in a more impersonal way, which kind of makes sense 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.960 given the work from home environment that we're in. When 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.280 you're hired remotely, you're gonna be fired remotely, Like no 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.400 one's gonna hop a plane show up at your door 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.640 and tell you that you're losing your job. It can 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.600 I think you can feel like it's adding insult to injury, 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.960 which can make it more of an emotional experience than 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.880 it already would be though, And so dealing with the 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.640 aftermath of a layoff when you're also kind of emotionally 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:13.840 reeling can be can be a really difficult thing to do. 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:15.680 Yeah, And then like, I don't want to be a 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.200 doomsayer here, but we're not even talking about what AI 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.240 or like the large language models might do to the 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.120 tech industry right when it comes like programmers, Like why 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.200 would you hire ten programmers when you can just get 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.080 the code you need in the blink of an eye. 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.520 Perhaps, Well, and there's just a whole lot of predictions 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.440 about what AI is going to do to work moving forward. 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.440 Ye, a whole lot of yes, I swear. So, even 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.280 aside from the tech sector, this is something that I 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.240 think a lot a lot of us, even you and 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.840 I should be there should be something that we are 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:43.400 thinking about. 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.800 Sure. Yeah, it makes me think of a great quote 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.880 I saw from Alison Schreger recently, former guest of the show. 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.200 She was specifically talking about kind of the impact of 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.080 AI on the workforce moving forward, and I thought this 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:57.200 was what I thought, this was brilliant. She said, if 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.000 the past is an indication of the future, big new technology, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.080 she tends to come for the mediocre first, so it's 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.800 critical to add some human element and be good at it. 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.320 She said, I anticipate that in person skills will be 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.840 super valuable. And so well knowing how to think, and 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.200 so I yeah, if you want to beat what AI 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.280 has coming for us, and it's coming, I think being 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.920 better at what we do is going to be of 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.880 massive importance as we try to stave off AI coming 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:25.400 for our stuff. 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:27.880 But simultaneously, this is where I feel like we might 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:29.760 be getting a little like we might be jumping the 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.920 gun a little bit, because folks were also saying that 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.760 about like when the lockdowns were happening during the pandemic, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.120 Basically everyone was saying that, like we're never going to 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.600 be hanging out in person again, like all offices are 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.760 shut down, virtual learning, virtual doctors. In fact, is we're 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.640 all going to move to the metaverse and Facebook. They 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.840 double down on that, didn't they, And that's actually that 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.960 hasn't been the case. So yeah, it'll be interesting to 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:53.400 see what actually appans own. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.520 I will say Allison was not dooming gloom in that 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.200 newsletter she sent out, and a lot of it she 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.080 was saying, we adapt as humans, and I think this 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.720 is actually going to be for the best positive. I 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.360 think she's right on that too. But I do think 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.280 that the better we are at our jobs, the more 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.480 it's going to help us when we try to avoid 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:12.480 getting laid off, especially when AI can maybe do something 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:13.520 cheaper and better. 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.320 Yeah, and regarding the you know, you kind of touched 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.640 on this, but regarding the like the virtual layoffs, I 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:20.400 don't think it's the fact that they're virtual that I 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:22.480 have a problem with. It's the fact that they're letting 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.960 like hundreds and even like thousands of people go like 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:27.920 at the same time on the same call. Like, that's 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.520 the part of it that feels inhumane as opposed to 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:32.280 the virtual. Because what you said I think is true, 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.680 which is if you're hired virtually, I think it's okay 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.400 that you're fired virtually because it doesn't make sense necessarily 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:39.720 for you to be called into the office that you've 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:41.720 never been to before and they're going to take all 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.160 of this time and you have to find a suit 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.200 or at least some khakis or something in order to 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.000 be presentable and around other employees. But it's it's less that, 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.280 and it's it is it is more the mass aspect 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:56.520 of it, right, Like it makes me think of food, 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.440 like farming or like if you are a homesteader and 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.240 you're raising chickens or a cow or or something like 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:06.760 that it's okay to humanely slaughter an animal, like that's 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.360 how we go about eating meat. But there's a big 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.240 difference between that and like what Upston Sinclair wrote about 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.240 in the Jungle, Yes, right, with like the meat industry 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.320 and some of these mass layoffs, it feels more like that, yes, 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:21.200 versus the humane kind way of going about raising animals exactly. 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:22.920 And if you can get hired remotely, you're gonna get 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.760 you're gonna get let go remotely. I think it just 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.439 makes sense. But you're right, there's a human way to 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.080 do it, and then there's like a really crummy way 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.119 to do it. And hopefully I feel like we a 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.240