1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,559 Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: supernatural and the unexplained. Get ready now for Shades of 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: to Coast AM, employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 3: Hi. 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 14 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: that our loved ones have survived physical debt, and so 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. I'd like 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: to start out this episode with a public service announcement. 18 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 2: I have hit the age where my doctor recommended that 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: I have a colonoscopy. Probably not what we want to 20 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: talk about on Shades of the Afterlife, but we don't 21 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: want to be in the afterlife anytime soon. So I 22 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 2: just want to let everyone know that if you are 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 2: a person who's in the fifties and it's recommended, I 24 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: certainly did have my fear and anxiety. I think that's normal. 25 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 2: But cancer, and especially colon cancer, is one of the 26 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: top three kinds of cancer that can take us out 27 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 2: of this life. And just by having a colonoscopy, you 28 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: can decrease your odds of getting colon cancer by almost 29 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: one hundred percent. So I was shocked, surprised, and delighted 30 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: to find out how absolutely easy it was. Even the 31 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 2: god awful prep that everybody talks about. They've changed the 32 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: formula so it is not as horrendous as one may think. 33 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: And then going into the appointment, I was greeted by 34 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: a nice volunteer who welcomed me. A nice team of 35 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: doctors and nurses explained everything. And you will find this 36 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: funny because just before they gave me the anesthesia to 37 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: put me in that dreamy state, the doctor said, what 38 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: do you do for work? And I said, oh, I'm 39 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: the host of Shades of the Afterlife and author of 40 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: the book We Don't Die, a skeptics discovery of life 41 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: after death, and there were several people in that room. 42 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: They said, well, what's your name? They were jotting it down. 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 2: They wanted to know the website. The doctor said, no 44 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: near death experiences today, and I said, hey, I just 45 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 2: interviewed doctor Moody a couple episodes ago. We had a 46 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 2: good laugh. The next thing you know, they said, Sandra, 47 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 2: you're all done, and that was it. Gave me some 48 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: ginger ale, a few cookies and I was on my way. 49 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: I say this because it's such a private kind of 50 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: procedure to go through, but it can save your life, 51 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: so take it from one of the biggest scaredy cats around. 52 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: It was easy and people are so kind. They treat 53 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: you like they would treat family. So go do it 54 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: if you're of that age. Now onto this show. When 55 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: I interviewed a doctor Raymond Moody and his co writer 56 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: Paul Perry, Paul spoke about near death experiences of children 57 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 2: and the books he's written with Melvin Morse. So I 58 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: thought to perhaps I could read you some stories about 59 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: children who have had a near death experience. Is I'll 60 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: never forget sitting on an airplane with a guy and 61 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: he ended up telling me about his son's One of 62 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: his sons was learning to be potty trained, and the 63 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 2: other son was by the father's side, or so he thought, 64 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 2: But they were at a campground by a lake. The 65 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: young son, who was only a few years old, ran 66 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 2: down to the water because he thought he could swim 67 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: on his own, but of course he couldn't, and the 68 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,799 Speaker 2: father quickly realized the sun wasn't there, found him floating 69 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 2: in the water, was able to revive him, and when 70 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: the son woke up in the hospital, the son told 71 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: the father, you know, he didn't need to be scared, daddy, 72 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: because I was with the big face in the sun, 73 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: and the big face in the sun told this boy 74 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: it was not his time to go. The father had 75 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: felt a lot of guilt for not keeping an eye 76 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 2: on the sun, and I asked the dad, how did 77 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 2: this boy grow up? And at that time he was 78 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: a teenager, and he said he just had the overwhelming 79 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: urge to always help people. And that's a common denominator 80 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: with most people who have near death experiences, this feeling 81 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: of wanting to give. So I thought we'd do some 82 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: research and learn a little bit and hear some stories 83 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: about kids and near death experiences. So here's the first one. 84 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: At the age of ten, Chris developed seriously high blood 85 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 2: pressure from a kidney problem. The danger became so acute 86 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: that doctors transplanted one of his mother's kidneys into his body. 87 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: After the transplant, a low grade fever developed that doctors 88 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: couldn't control. Finally, racked with stomach pain and losing strength, 89 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: he was admitted to the hospital for further tests. The 90 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: results were grim bacteria introduced into his body during the 91 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: kidney transplant had invaded his heart, causing his aortic valve 92 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: to swell. Surgeons were forced to perform heart valve surgery, 93 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 2: during which young Chris died and was revived. What he 94 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 2: said was substantiated by his mother, who had been at 95 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 2: his bedside when he came out of surgery and told 96 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,239 Speaker 2: her this marvelous story, the same one he told me later. 97 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: I woke up from surgery and there was my mom. 98 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 2: I couldn't wait to tell her what had happened. While 99 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 2: I was on the operating table, I said, I have 100 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: a wonderful secret to tell you, Mom. I've been climbing 101 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: a staircase to Heaven. It was such a good and 102 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: peaceful feeling I felt wonderful. I was on a staircase 103 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: and it was dark, and I started climbing upward. I 104 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: got about half way up the staircase and I decided 105 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: not to go any higher. I wanted to go on up, 106 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: but I knew I wouldn't come back if I went 107 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 2: too high. That would hurt my mom and dad. Since 108 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: my little brother has already died, they wouldn't have anyone 109 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 2: to take care of. Chris then turned around and went 110 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: down the staircase. When he reached the bottom, he felt 111 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: himself slip back into his body. Months later, Chris had 112 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: completely forgotten about this experience. Chris just didn't forget the staircase. 113 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: He had been treated with many narcotics and valium, all 114 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: of which cause amnesia. His case and those similar to 115 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 2: it make me think that everyone who has almost died 116 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: may possibly have had a near death experience. Perhaps they 117 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: frequently don't remember them because the drugs given to them 118 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: erase memory. So this story and some of the others 119 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 2: I'll be sharing are from the book Closer to the Light, 120 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: Learning from the Near Death Experiences of Children by doctor 121 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 2: Melvin Morse with co author Paul Perry. Let me tell 122 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: you a little bit about doctor Morse. Melvin Morse, MD 123 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: is an acclaimed pediatrician, voted one of America's best doctors, 124 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: an author of books on near death experiences and the 125 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: spirituality of death and dying. He was described by NBC 126 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: News as doing more than any other scientist to prove 127 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 2: the existence of life after death. He was an associate 128 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington for twenty years. 129 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: His international bestseller, Closer to the Light describes the near 130 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 2: death experiences of children. This was based on his studies 131 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 2: at Seattle Children's Hospital. His second book, Transformed by the Light, 132 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: documented the long term positive transformation of children who had 133 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: near death experiences. His third book, Party Visions details the 134 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: shared dying experiences of children and adults. His latest book 135 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 2: is called Where God Lives and it is an award 136 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: winning book discussing spiritual neuroscience in exactly how our brains 137 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: are connected to the universe. You can find out more 138 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: about doctor Morse at melvinmorsemd dot com. So he is 139 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: definitely someone we can believe. This next story is about Kurt. 140 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,359 Speaker 2: Kurt was a seven year old with severe muscular dystrophy. 141 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: Because of this disease, he was unable to breathe very well, 142 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: and he needed to breathe oxygen from a tank to live. 143 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: Kurt became progressively sicker and finally developed pneumonia, which usually 144 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 2: marks the end of a muscular dystrophe's victim's life. Near 145 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: the end, he was in intensive care when his heart stopped. 146 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 2: The doctors gave him closed heart massage, pushing on his 147 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 2: chest with their palms, and restored his heart beat. Still, 148 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: he was completely without heartbeat for three minutes. When I 149 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: spoke to Kurt, hours after his resuscitation, he was very 150 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: much at peace. He knew he was going to die 151 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: soon and seemed relieved to know his physical grief was 152 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 2: nearing an end. His recent experience, Kurt said, had shown 153 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: him a world without pain. When his heart had stopped beating, 154 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: Kurt suddenly found himself outside his body, watching the doctors 155 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 2: and nurses work to revive him. I saw Bonnie, one 156 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: of the nurses, and I said hi to her. Then 157 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 2: everything became dark until I saw angels. I was in 158 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: a beautiful place with flowers and rainbows, where everything was white, 159 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: like it had its own light. I talked to several 160 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 2: people while I was there, including Jesus who wanted me 161 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 2: to stay with him. I wanted to stay there, but 162 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 2: we decided I had to come back and see my 163 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: parents again. I'm not afraid to go to that place. 164 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: I tried to get Kurt to draw what he had seen, 165 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 2: but he was too weak to hold a pencil. He 166 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: died a few weeks after we spoke. I wish the 167 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: family had been present at my interview to hear their 168 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: son's description of what had happened to him. This interview 169 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: took place in the emergency room at the children's hospital. 170 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: I did not feel comfortable telling his parents about the 171 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: experience right away, and I know that the nurses who 172 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: were present did not tell the family either. I have 173 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: anguished over this case many times. I realized that I 174 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 2: should have shared what I knew with Kurt's family right away, 175 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: but neither I nor any of the other medical personnel 176 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: present felt that a hospital environment allowed for a discussion 177 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: of this kind. As one of the doctors present said, 178 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: for me to say to a family and by the way, 179 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: your son thought he went to heaven during a resuscitation 180 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: would have made me feel like I was crazy. Medical 181 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 2: school didn't teach me to talk about things like that. 182 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 2: I know with more and more doctors having experiences like this, 183 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 2: and also great books like the recent interview I just 184 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: did with Raymond Moody. With all of those experiences coming 185 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 2: from doctors, I think it will help this conversation to 186 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 2: be more open and so doctors and patients can express 187 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 2: what they feel and what they experience. So let's go 188 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: to the break and we'll be right back. You're listening 189 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast 190 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 191 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: The Coast to Coast AM mobile app is here and 192 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: waiting for you right now, and with the app, you 193 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: can hear classic shows from the past seven years, listen 194 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: to the current live show, and get access to the 195 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: Artbell Vault where you can listen to uninterrupted audio. Head 196 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,079 Speaker 1: on over to the Coast to Coast am dot com website. 197 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: We have a handy video guide to help you get 198 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: the most out of your mobile app usage. All the 199 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: info is waiting for you now at Coast Tocoast am 200 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: dot com. That's Coast Tocoast am dot com. On the 201 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 202 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 4: Listen anytime, any place. Hey everyone, it's the Wizard of 203 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 4: Weird Joshua pe Warren. And now here's more Shades of 204 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 4: the Afterlife. 205 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain, 206 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 2: and today we're talking about children's near death experiences through 207 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: the eyes of doctor Melvin Morse. Now, how did he 208 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: get involved with all of this? 209 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 5: So? 210 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: I want to read From the beginning of his book 211 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: Closer to the Light, first published in nineteen ninety, he says, 212 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: I stood over Crystal's lifeless body in the intensive care 213 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: unit and wondered whether this little girl could be saved. 214 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: A few hours earlier, she had been found floating face 215 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: down in a Ymca swimming pool. No one knew how 216 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: long she had been uncovered conscious or exactly what happened 217 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: to cause her to lose consciousness. One of the lifeguards 218 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: guessed that some of the boys playing alongside the pool 219 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: had accidentally knocked her into the water. Someone else mentioned 220 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: to the police that maybe she had bumped her head 221 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: on the bottom of the pool and had lost consciousness 222 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 2: that way. It could have even been an epileptic seizure. 223 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: I thought, I didn't really expect to find out what 224 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 2: had happened. The machines to which she was now hooked 225 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 2: up told a grim story. An emergency cat scan showed 226 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: massive swelling of her brain. She had no gag reflex. 227 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: An artificial lung machine was breathing for her. In the 228 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: blunt jargon of the emergency room physicians, she was a 229 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: train wreck. Looking back, even now, I would guess that 230 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: she only had a ten percent chance of surviving. I 231 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 2: was the doctor who resuscitated her in the emergency room. 232 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: After the accident, I was serving my internship in pediatrics 233 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: in a small town in Idaho, and would be starting 234 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: my residency a few months later in Seattle. I had 235 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: previously been doing research on brain tumors, and at a 236 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 2: national conference had presented a paper on the effects of 237 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: chemotherapy on childhood leukemia. In between the world of academia 238 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: studies and rat brain research, in which I tested the 239 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 2: effects of various medicines on white rats, I wanted to 240 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 2: sandwich in some practical medicine. Medicine probably doesn't get more 241 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: practical than poor Crystal's case. She was one of the 242 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: sickest children I had ever cared for. Despite all of 243 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: our efforts, I was sure she was going to die. 244 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 5: Still. 245 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 2: We tried everything we could think of. One episode with 246 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: Crystal remains vivid in my mind even today. I was 247 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: trying to thread a small catheter into one of her 248 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 2: arteries so we could get an exact reading of the 249 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 2: oxygen in her blood. The procedure, called arterial catheterization, is 250 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 2: particularly difficult and bloody, since an incision into an artery 251 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: is required. I explained the procedure to her father and 252 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 2: told him that he and the other family members might 253 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 2: want to wait in the hall until the line was inserted. 254 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 2: He consulted with his wife and the others and came 255 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 2: back with another suggestion. He asked if they could hold 256 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 2: a prayer vigil around her bed while I threaded the 257 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 2: device into her artery. Why not, I thought, she's going 258 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: to die anyway, Maybe this will help them cope with 259 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 2: their grief. The family held hands around her bed and 260 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 2: began to pray. Crystal lay flat and lifeless as breathing 261 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: machines and monitors beeped and buzzed, and several IV tubes 262 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 2: gave her fluids and medication. Two nurses and arrest vatory 263 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 2: therapist were there with me. One push of the needle, 264 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 2: and the blood began spurting from the arterial line. We 265 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 2: all did our jobs quickly and nervously. It seems now 266 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: that the calmest people in the room were the members 267 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 2: of Crystal's family. As the blood spurted out, they began 268 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 2: to pray out loud. How can they be so calm? 269 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,959 Speaker 2: I thought, isn't it obvious that she is going to die? 270 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 2: Three days later, she made a full recovery. Her case 271 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: was one of those medical mysteries that demonstrate the power 272 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 2: of the human organism to rebound. People sometimes cross the 273 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 2: threshold of death only to return in full health. Why 274 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 2: it happens is impossible to say, but it happened with Crystal, 275 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 2: whose neurological testing showed she had made a full recovery. 276 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 2: When she was feeling well enough, I had her come 277 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 2: in for a follow up examination. One of the things 278 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 2: I wanted to know was what she remembered about her 279 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 2: near drowning. The answer was important to the type of 280 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 2: treatment she would receive as an outpatient. Had she been 281 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 2: hit on the head, had someone held her underwater? I 282 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: marveled at Cristel when she came into the office. She 283 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 2: was a pretty girl with long blonde hair and a shy, 284 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: frightened manner. There was nothing abnormal in her walk or mannerisms. 285 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 2: She was just another nine year old kid. Crystal clearly 286 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 2: remembered me. After introducing myself, she turned to her mother 287 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 2: and said, that's the one with the beard. First, there 288 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 2: was this tall doctor who didn't have a beard, and 289 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 2: then he came in. Her statement was correct. The first 290 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: into the emergency room was a tall, clean shaven physician 291 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 2: named Bill. Cristel remembered more. First I was in the 292 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 2: big room, and then they moved me to a smaller 293 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 2: room where they did X rays on me. She accurately 294 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 2: noted such details as having a tube down my nose, 295 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: which was her description of nasal intubation. Most physicians intubate orally, 296 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 2: and that is the most common way that it is 297 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 2: represented on television. She accurately described many other details of 298 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: her experience. I remember being amazed at the events she recollected. 299 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 2: Even though her eyes had been closed and she had 300 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 2: been profoundly comatose during the entire experience, she still saw 301 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: what was going on. I asked her an open ended question, 302 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: what do you remember about being in the swimming pool? 303 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 2: Do you mean, when I visited the Heavenly Father, she replied, WHOA. 304 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: I thought that's a good place to start. Tell me 305 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 2: about meeting the Heavenly Father. I met Jesus and the 306 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: Heavenly Father, she said. Maybe it was the shocked look 307 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: on my face, or maybe it was shyness, but that 308 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 2: was it for the day. She became very embarrassed and 309 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: would speak no more. I scheduled her for another appointment 310 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 2: the following week. What she told me during our next 311 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 2: meeting changed my life. She remembered nothing about the drowning itself. 312 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 2: Her first memory was of darkness and the feeling that 313 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 2: she was so heavy she couldn't move. Then a tunnel opened, 314 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 2: and through that tunnel came Elizabeth. Elizabeth was tall and nice, 315 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 2: she said, with bright golden hair. She accompanied Cristel up 316 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 2: the tunnel, where she saw her late grandfather and met 317 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 2: several other people. Among her new friends were two young 318 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 2: boys souls waiting to be born, named Andy and Mark, 319 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 2: who played with her and introduced her to many people. 320 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 2: At one point in the voyage, Cristel was given and 321 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: a glimpse of her home. She was allowed to wander 322 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: throughout the house, watching her brothers and sisters play with 323 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 2: their toys in their rooms. One of her brothers was 324 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 2: playing with a Gi Joe, pushing him around the room 325 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 2: in a jeep. One of her sisters was combing the 326 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: hair of a barbie doll and singing a popular rock song. 327 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 2: She drifted into the kitchen and watched her mother preparing 328 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: a meal of roast chicken and rice. Then she looked 329 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: into the living room and she saw her father sitting 330 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 2: on the couch, staring quietly ahead. She assumed he was 331 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: worrying about her in the hospital. Later, when Christel mentioned 332 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: this to her parents, she shocked them with her vivid 333 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 2: details about the clothes they were wearing, their positions in 334 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 2: the house, even the food her mother was cooking. Finally, Elizabeth, 335 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 2: who seemed to be a guardian angel to Christel, took 336 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: her to meet the Heavenly Father in Jesus. The Heavenly 337 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 2: Father asked if she wanted to go home. Crystal cried. 338 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: She said she wanted to stay with him. Then Jesus 339 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 2: asked her if she wanted to see her mother again. Yes, 340 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 2: she replied, then she awoke. It took her almost an 341 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 2: hour to tell this story. She was extremely shy, but 342 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: told the tale in such a powerful and compelling way 343 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 2: that I believed her. Throughout the telling of her experience, 344 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 2: she drew pictures of the people she had met in heaven. 345 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 2: Elizabeth was drawn as a pleasant, smiling stick figure with 346 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 2: white clothing. Mark and Andy looked like drawings of any 347 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,239 Speaker 2: ordinary schoolmate. Clearly, this had been a fun event for 348 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: a child so young. She didn't yet have a concept 349 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 2: of religious or mystical experience. She was aware that something 350 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 2: had happened that she didn't quite understand. I didn't understand 351 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: it either. I began to investigate. First, I went to 352 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: the nurses in the intensive care unit, who told me 353 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: that the first words out of her mouth when she 354 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 2: awoke were where are Mark and Andy? Then I probed 355 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 2: her family's religious beliefs. I wanted to see if she 356 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 2: had been heavily indoctrinated with belief in guardian angels and 357 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: tunnels in heaven. The answer from her mother was an 358 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 2: emphatic no. She was a middle of the road Mormon. 359 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: No one in the family had mentioned anything that would 360 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: trigger the images that came to Crystal at the brink 361 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 2: of death. I spent hours talking with Cristel's parents trying 362 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 2: to discover any factors in her upbringing that could have 363 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 2: influenced her experience. I couldn't find any. My deepest instinct 364 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: told me that nothing in Cristel's experience was taught to 365 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 2: her before her drown Her experience was fresh, not recalled memory. 366 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 2: Then I began looking through medical literature, and that's when 367 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 2: I found doctor Raymond Moody and his research on near 368 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 2: death experiences. Back in nineteen eighty two, a Gallop poll 369 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 2: estimated that eight million people had experienced near death experiences. 370 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 2: Now in twenty twenty three, they say about seventeen percent 371 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 2: of people who die have come back to tell these stories. Myself, 372 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 2: along with many people back in my really skeptical days, 373 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 2: thought that near death experiences was just part of the 374 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: brain shutting down. But earlier this year, a study done 375 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 2: by over a dozen scientists with the New York Academy 376 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: of Sciences have announced that near death experiences are definitely 377 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 2: not hallucinations, but they made no claim as to what 378 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 2: they actually are. Because you see, people are in a 379 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: heightened state of alertness. They are seeing things with their 380 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 2: mind's eye that are actually happening. So let's go to 381 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: our break and when we come back, I'm going to 382 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 2: play a sound clip of doctor Morris. You're listening to 383 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 2: Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 384 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 2: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 385 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 4: Stay there, Sandra will be right back. 386 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 2: Hi. This is Wuija Board expert Karen A. Dolman, and 387 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: you're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM 388 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,719 Speaker 2: Paranormal Podcast Network. 389 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: And now back to Sandra Champlain and Shades of the Afterlife. 390 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain. 391 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 2: I don't know what it is about humanity, but it's 392 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: so easy for us not to believe and immediately go 393 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 2: to there's no proof of this where in reality, people 394 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: have been studying the afterlife for a long long time, 395 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: probably since the dawn of civilization. I'd like you to 396 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 2: hear some words from doctor Morse. Years ago, we had 397 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 2: a wonderful talk show host and comedian named Joan Rivers. 398 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: The quality of this recording isn't great, but the words 399 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 2: spoken are so Let's listen. 400 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 6: What is a near death experience? 401 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 5: Near death experiences happen to people who are clinically dead, 402 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 5: people whose hearts have stopped beating, their eyes are fixed 403 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 5: and dilated, and yet they're receuscitated by medical technology. So 404 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 5: they've enjoy a drink of death right and then resuscitated 405 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 5: by our medical technology. 406 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 6: How do you know that when they have these experiences 407 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 6: and they say they've seen something, In other words. 408 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 5: What they say is extraordinary. They say that at the time, 409 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 5: like Crystal, who I resuscitated myself, who was without a 410 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 5: heartbeat for nineteen minutes. She says that during that time 411 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 5: she floated out of her body, she could see everything 412 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 5: I was doing to her. I saw you put a 413 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 5: tube in my nose, she told me. And then they 414 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 5: say that they go down a dark tunnel to a 415 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 5: heavenly realm, a place that's beautiful and bright and loving. 416 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 5: One boy said to me, there was a lot of 417 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 5: good things in that light, so it's a place of 418 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 5: love for them. 419 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 6: How do you know induced by drugs and medication. 420 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 5: Jonah, I'm a pediatrician. I studied these experiences for eight 421 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 5: years at Seattle Children's Hospital, and I studied hundreds and 422 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 5: hundreds of children who were treated with drugs and who 423 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 5: had a lack of oxygen to their brain, but were 424 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 5: not in your death not one of those children had 425 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 5: this experience. Only children who come to the brink of death, 426 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 5: who are clinically dead, have this experience. So it's not 427 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 5: something caused by drugs. It's not some sort of hallucination. 428 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 6: How young was this the young as that you spoke to, 429 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 6: I could describe this to you. 430 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 5: The youngest child I've ever interviewed was a child who 431 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 5: was aged three or four, who had this experience at 432 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 5: nine months of age. 433 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 6: And can remember it that clearly. 434 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 5: As clear as you and I are talking here, who said, 435 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 5: very well, it's interesting the way it came up. His 436 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 5: parents took him to a Christmas pageant and he's started 437 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 5: screaming and crying and saying, that's not Jesus, that's not Jesus, 438 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 5: because he felt he had seen Jesus as part of 439 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 5: his near death experience. Now they don't all see Jesus, 440 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 5: you know, each one sees you have a different religion. 441 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 6: You know what if you were a Buddhist child. 442 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 5: Oh, then they see Buddhist religious figures. Or One child 443 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 5: that I spoke with didn't have any religious training. So 444 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 5: she told me that doctors dressed in white came to 445 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 5: her and I said, well, how did you know there 446 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 5: are doctors? She said, well, they were all dressed in 447 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 5: white and they had light bulbs in their bodies glowing. 448 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 5: They were glowing, so, you know, she called them doctors, 449 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 5: but a religious child would call them you know whatever, 450 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 5: God or whatever. These are not particularly religious experiences. They're 451 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 5: spiritual experiences that happened to people when they die. 452 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 3: Another of the several hundred children Melmorese has interviewed is 453 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 3: fifteen year old Chris, who nearly died of a bronchial 454 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 3: infection and saw her grandparents in a great white light. 455 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 7: And she was telling me that it's your choice to 456 00:30:58,360 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 7: make no one to make that choice. 457 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 6: And if you want to stay here with us, you're welcome. 458 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 7: Do you want to go back there others calling and 459 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 7: waiting before you go back, You're welcome to go back, 460 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 7: but make their. 461 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 5: Choice come to you. 462 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 3: Moost believes that the fact that children, some of whom 463 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 3: are just toddlers, are having these experiences is as close 464 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 3: to proof of life after death as spiritual proof gets. 465 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 5: They just they're so matter of fact about it. They're 466 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 5: just the you know, they're obviously they have no secondary gain. 467 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 5: You know, they're not going to be on a talk show. 468 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 5: They're not going to write a best selling book about it. 469 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 5: They have no reason to invent the story. They just 470 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 5: they just, if anything, they have reason to not tell 471 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 5: the story because they think that they'll be laughed at. 472 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 5: They they think they're crazy. When you've had a child 473 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 5: condescendingly pat you on the hand and say you'll see 474 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 5: doctor Morris, Heaven is fun, you know, like I have. 475 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 5: You tend to pay a lot more attention to these experiences. 476 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 5: But I see our society as having a deep spiritual 477 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 5: craving for this kind of information. Every time I interview someone, 478 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 5: it gets just gives me chills. I go, it must 479 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 5: be true. 480 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 6: They had bad experience the doctors. Did any child come back? 481 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 6: A really rotten child comes back? 482 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 4: I bet it's great. 483 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 6: Enough to here because it's warm, and that man was 484 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 6: not friendly enough. 485 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 5: I've interviewed dozens and dozens and dozens of children who've 486 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 5: had this experience. I've never heard a negative, unpleasant experience. 487 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 5: Adults frequently do, but not children. 488 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 7: You know. 489 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 5: I've just got to tell you. One thing is that 490 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 5: one girl told me life is for a living, and 491 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 5: this light is for later. And these children, although they 492 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 5: have no fear of death. They have an extraordinary vigor 493 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 5: and love of life. 494 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 6: When you came out of it and you try to 495 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 6: explain what happened to you, the people to believe you did. 496 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 6: Your friends believe you did, your parents, the doctors and nurses. 497 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 7: Well, really, I think it depends what kind of a 498 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 7: family are from. 499 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 5: I told my mom. 500 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 7: At first she thought she told me. 501 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 2: She said, what movies have you been watching? 502 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 5: Crystal? Yeah, I felt like that, But after I kept 503 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 5: telling her. 504 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 7: She told me that after a seven year old tells 505 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 7: you these things time and time over again, with. 506 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 2: Every detail you start, you can't help believe it. What 507 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 2: about you do they believe you? 508 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 6: Is a good kids in school? 509 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 7: The people do it. Originally I didn't tell anyone because 510 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 7: the doctors and nurse had been I didn't even believe 511 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 7: I was sick. When I was in the hospital, they 512 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 7: told me I was over reacting, and so when I 513 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 7: came to they told me I was just hallucinating, and 514 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 7: to me, that was such a special event and I 515 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 7: wanted to believe it was true. So I never told 516 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 7: anyone until a while later. I told a friend, how 517 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 7: did you find apple? 518 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 2: These children? 519 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,959 Speaker 6: Do you ask them or do they just volunteer to you. 520 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 5: These are not volunteers. I studied your death experiences in 521 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 5: children for eight years and I systematically interviewed every survivor 522 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 5: of cardiac arrest at Seattle Children's Hospital. So these are children. 523 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 5: I went to them and said, do you remember anything 524 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 5: about the time that you were asleep, unconscious or whatever. 525 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 5: But no, these aren't volunteers that have come to me 526 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 5: saying oh, I've got a wacky story to tell you. 527 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 5: Not at all. In fact, half of the children I 528 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 5: talked to had never even told their parents about the experience. 529 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 2: Well, you spoke to them. 530 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 6: Well, the book is fascinating and it's very comforting also, 531 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 6: and I'm glad you came back, whatever reason you came 532 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 6: back this night to have you to here, and I 533 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 6: thank you so much. The book is quote quote in 534 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 6: real life. 535 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 2: I love the quote life is for living and the 536 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: light is for later. Here's another story. June, an eight 537 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 2: year old girl nearly drowned in a swimming pool when 538 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 2: her hair became caught in the drain. Her parents, an 539 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 2: emergency medical team, and finally emergency room doctors gave her 540 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,240 Speaker 2: CPR for more than forty five minutes before her heart 541 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 2: began beating again. She made a full neurological recovery in 542 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 2: less than six weeks. The story would have ended there 543 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 2: had the bicycle incident not happened. June was writing down 544 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 2: on her driveway toward the street when her mother shouted 545 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 2: from the house for her to be careful. Distracted by 546 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 2: her mother's voice, June rode into the street and was 547 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 2: almost hit by a passing car. Did you want me 548 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 2: to die again, shouted June from across the street. I 549 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 2: might not come back next time. June then told her 550 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 2: mother what had happened when her life almost ended in 551 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 2: the swimming pool. The story so worried June's mother that 552 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 2: she asked her family doctor to refer them to a psychiatrist. 553 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 2: Knowing my interest, the doctor instead referred them to me. 554 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: Here's June's story. All I remember was my hair getting 555 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: stuck in the drain and then blacking out. The next 556 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 2: thing I knew, I floated out of my body. I 557 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 2: could see myself under the water, but I wasn't afraid. 558 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 2: Suddenly I started going up a tunnel, and before I 559 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 2: could think about it, I found myself in heaven. I 560 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 2: know it was heaven because everything was bright and everyone 561 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 2: was cheerful. A nice man asked me if I wanted 562 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 2: to stay there. I thought about staying. I really did, 563 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 2: but I said I want to be back with my family. 564 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 2: Then I got to come back. This patient has full 565 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: recall of the event. Not only does she remember its 566 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 2: intense spiritual nature, but she can now totally recall the 567 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 2: events of the resuscitation, from the time the paramedics reached 568 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 2: her in the backyard to the work done on her 569 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 2: in the emergency room. And Mark's story is among the 570 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 2: most fascinating near death experiences Because of his age. When 571 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 2: it happened, he was only nine months old. It wasn't 572 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 2: until he was seven that Mark told his parents about 573 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 2: his remarkable experience. At the age of nine months, Mark 574 00:36:55,480 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 2: had severe bronchiolitis. While in the emergency he had a 575 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 2: full cardiopulmonary arrest for more than forty minutes. Doctors worked 576 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 2: to revive him and finally did. Most people show signs 577 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 2: of mental retardation from experiences such as this, but not Mark. 578 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 2: He had a full recovery and has shown normal growth 579 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 2: and development since crossing the threshold of death. Mark first 580 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: mentioned his near death experience when he was three years 581 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 2: old then, following a Christmas pageant, he said that God 582 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 2: didn't look like the man in the play they had 583 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 2: just seen. When his father asked him what he meant, 584 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 2: Mark told him what had happened during that frantic night 585 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 2: two years earlier. I saw nurses and doctors standing over me, 586 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 2: trying to wake me up. I flew out of the 587 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 2: room and went to the waiting room, where I saw 588 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,919 Speaker 2: Grandpa and Grandma crying and holding each other. I think 589 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 2: they thought I was going to die. He then reported 590 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 2: seeing a long, dark tunnel and crawling up into it. 591 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 2: He said it was difficult to crawl without a helping hand, 592 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 2: but he couldn't say who was helping him. At the 593 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,479 Speaker 2: end of this tunnel was a bright light that kept 594 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 2: him going. At the end of the tunnel, he found 595 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 2: a bright place and ran through the fields with God. 596 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 2: He was very animated. When he described this run with God. 597 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 2: He said that one can double jump in heaven and 598 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 2: run without effort. God then asked if he wanted to 599 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 2: go back home. Mark said no, but God told him 600 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 2: he would come back again some other day. Mark remembered 601 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 2: his experience vividly until the age of five, when the 602 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 2: doctors removed the trachea tube they had inserted to remedy 603 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 2: a problem of a floppy windpipe. Then the memory of 604 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 2: the experience began to fade. Now Mark is a well 605 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 2: adjusted teenager who has high hopes of becoming a physical 606 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 2: therapist or an athletic trainer. I wanted to leave you 607 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 2: with some quotes before the break. A Persian proverb says 608 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 2: children are the bridge to heaven. Henry Ward Beecher said, 609 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,240 Speaker 2: children are the hands by which we take hold of heaven. 610 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 2: Children are the keys of paradise, and in this case, 611 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 2: children are showing us all about paradise. So let's go 612 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 2: to the break and we'll be back. You're listening to 613 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 2: Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to 614 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 2: Coast AM Pironormal Podcast Network. 615 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 4: Keep it here on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 616 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 4: AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Sanders Champlain will be right back. 617 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: The art Belvault never disappoints Classic audio at your fingertips. 618 00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: Go now to Coast tocoastam dot com for full details. 619 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 4: Hey everyone, it's producer Tom of Coast to Coast AM 620 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 4: and more. Sandra starts right. 621 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 8: Now Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. 622 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 2: I'm Sandra Champlain and if you are enjoying these stories, 623 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 2: please go to Melvin Morse, MD and check out his website. 624 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 2: He's got the books Closer to the Light where God 625 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 2: Lives Parting Visions. Just to give you a taste of 626 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 2: Closer to the Light that I've been reading from. I'm 627 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 2: only up to page thirty six out of two hundred 628 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 2: and forty one pages, so you know there's a lot 629 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 2: more stories in there, So that's Closer to the Light. 630 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 2: Do you ever wonder what your passion is? And maybe 631 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 2: it changes throughout the course of your life, but could 632 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 2: you so imagine doing the amount of research or investigation 633 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 2: and sharing. Like doctor Morse said, doesn't have to be 634 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 2: about the afterlife. It could be whatever that is for 635 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 2: you follow it. I believe we're all divinely guided and 636 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 2: what's important is new experiences and being able to share 637 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 2: them and make a difference for another. So let's do 638 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 2: some more reading. This is six year old Daniel, who 639 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 2: was struck by a car while riding his bicycle and 640 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 2: received a severe head trauma. He was comatosed for two weeks. 641 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 2: He remembers almost nothing of the accident or of the 642 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,399 Speaker 2: moments before. He says, he remembers taking his bicycle out 643 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,399 Speaker 2: of the garage and riding down the driveway. His most 644 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 2: vivid memory is what happened after he was struck. He says, 645 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 2: I was standing there watching the doctors load me into 646 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 2: the ambulance when I saw that I was out of 647 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 2: my body. My mom was crying and everyone was in 648 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,760 Speaker 2: a hurry. When I got to the hospital, I watched 649 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 2: the doctors put tubes in me. I looked yucky because 650 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 2: I was bloody and bruised. I then went down a 651 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 2: tunnel that was dark. At the end of the tunnel 652 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 2: was a bright light. I wasn't sad, and I wasn't happy, 653 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 2: but I did want to get to that light. When 654 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 2: I got to it, I met three men. One was 655 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 2: very tall and the other two were short. Behind them 656 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 2: was a rainbow bridge that stretched across the sky. They 657 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 2: seemed nice, but I was kind of afraid of them anyway. 658 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,240 Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I was back in my body. 659 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 2: I looked down at my feet and the men were there. 660 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 2: Then they disappeared and I was completely back. This experience 661 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 2: made Daniel believe that other worlds exist. It was also 662 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,879 Speaker 2: somewhat frightening for him because he thought that these men 663 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,399 Speaker 2: were going to take him to a place away from 664 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 2: his parents. But they seemed nice, Daniel told me, But 665 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave my mom and dad. Next, 666 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:17,040 Speaker 2: doctor Morse talks about pre death visions, and he says 667 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 2: for thousands of years, pre death visions were accepted as 668 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,800 Speaker 2: part of the dying process, before death became the domain 669 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 2: of the hospital, these visions were common and expected. French 670 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 2: historian Philippe Aires has documented that before one thousand AD, 671 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,120 Speaker 2: people had entirely different death experiences than the ones we 672 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 2: have today. When the dying person felt his time was near, 673 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 2: he usually reviewed his life, his achievements and failures, and 674 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 2: wept for the sorrow he felt in knowing he wouldn't 675 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 2: see family or friends again. The dying person then asked 676 00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 2: forgiveness of friends and family for any trespasses he might 677 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 2: have committed in the life he was about to leave. Usually, 678 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 2: said Ares, the dying would tell of visions of God 679 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 2: and of seeing those who had died before them. How 680 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:18,240 Speaker 2: different dying is today. Patients who have pre death visions 681 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 2: are treated for anxiety with narcotics and valium, both of 682 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 2: which erase short term memory and prevent patients from remembering 683 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 2: any visions or near death experiences they may have had. 684 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 2: These visions are a forgotten aspect of life's mysterious process 685 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 2: and just a reminder Doctor Christopher Kerr with Life is 686 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 2: but a dream book with the dozens of pre death 687 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 2: visions people see while in hospice. So this is the 688 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 2: story of Seth. Seth was an eleven year old patient 689 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 2: of mine who was dying of lymph In his last days, 690 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 2: he was hospitalized with severe untreatable pneumonia. Though he was 691 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,360 Speaker 2: having difficulty breathing and was in constant pain, he was 692 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 2: given very few drugs such as morphine and valium because 693 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:20,560 Speaker 2: they make breathing more difficult. Three days before Seth died, 694 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,319 Speaker 2: a circle of loved ones gathered around his bed. They 695 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 2: were startled when Seth suddenly sat upright and announced that 696 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 2: Jesus was in the room. He then asked for everyone 697 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 2: to pray with him. At about three am, Seth sat 698 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 2: up again, startling the four people who had gathered around 699 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 2: the bed to pray. There are beautiful colors in the sky, 700 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,280 Speaker 2: he shouted, There are beautiful colors and even more colors. 701 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 2: You can double jump up here double jump. At four am, 702 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 2: an extraordinary event occurred. They were joined by a woman 703 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 2: who said that she had received a strong premonition that 704 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 2: she had to visit Seth right away. She was not 705 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,320 Speaker 2: known to Seth's parents, but her son was a playmate 706 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,200 Speaker 2: of Seth's. She had no explanation for why she would 707 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 2: suddenly visit Seth at four a m. Except to explain 708 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,400 Speaker 2: that she had had a vivid dream about Seth and 709 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,160 Speaker 2: had felt a need to visit him that was overpowering. 710 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 2: By dawn, it seemed that life was almost over for Seth. 711 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 2: His breathing was labored and his heart was pounding like 712 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,080 Speaker 2: that of a marathon runners. Even then, little Seth had 713 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 2: more to communicate. Opening his eyes wide, he asked his 714 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 2: grieving parents to let me go. Don't be afraid, he said, 715 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 2: I've seen God, angels and shepherds. I see the white horse. 716 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 2: As sick as he was, Seth still begged his family 717 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 2: not to feel sorry for him. He had seen where 718 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 2: he was going and it was a joyous and wondrous place. 719 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:11,720 Speaker 2: It's wonderful, It's beautiful, he said, his hand held out 720 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,760 Speaker 2: in front of him. Soon he laid back and fell asleep. 721 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 2: Seth never regained consciousness and died two days later. Seth's 722 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,399 Speaker 2: visions and the incidents surrounding them intrigued me. Seth's mother 723 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 2: believes that through God's mediation, Seth communicated with his friend's mother. 724 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,280 Speaker 2: Although she knew he had been hospitalized, it was during 725 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,359 Speaker 2: the period of his most powerful visions that she had 726 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,400 Speaker 2: her vision of Seth. Although I have nothing scientific to 727 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 2: base this on, I think coincidence was far too great 728 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 2: for these periods of vision activity not to be connected 729 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 2: in some way paranormal occurrences aside. Seth's beautiful visions consoled 730 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 2: his family by reassuring his parents that he was going 731 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 2: to a joyous and wondrous place with God. Seth brought 732 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,800 Speaker 2: his family closer together instead of suffering the shattering loss 733 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 2: that so many families experience when they lose a child, 734 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 2: Seth's family left the hospital knowing that they had done 735 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:27,640 Speaker 2: everything they could to save their son. They also firmly 736 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 2: believed that he was safely at rest in God's hands. 737 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 2: Just beautiful stories in this book. Wow, I could go 738 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:43,440 Speaker 2: on and on. Closer to the Light by Melvin Morse. 739 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,680 Speaker 2: I love learning that a thousand years ago, this is 740 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:52,280 Speaker 2: what people believed, and I do think when modern medicine 741 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:57,319 Speaker 2: came about, instead of people dying at home with their families, 742 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,719 Speaker 2: they're in an institution or they're in the hospital. So 743 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 2: many times in old books that I've read of people 744 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 2: dying at home, these occurrences are quite normal to hear, 745 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 2: these stories of loved ones being in the room before 746 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:19,720 Speaker 2: someone passes. I honestly didn't know though, about the narcotics 747 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 2: erasing memories for people. I think that's very interesting. Certainly, 748 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 2: we need to have pain medication, we do if we 749 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,839 Speaker 2: are suffering, but I'm wondering if there's some we can 750 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,760 Speaker 2: take that may also not wipe away our memory. Something 751 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 2: to pursue. I hope you've enjoyed today. I sure have. 752 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 2: If you haven't already heard my news of my Patreon club, 753 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,680 Speaker 2: you may want to hear this if you are somebody 754 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,360 Speaker 2: who really enjoys the work that I do on my podcasts. 755 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 2: I have a list of over five hundred and fifty 756 00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:03,320 Speaker 2: hours between my two shows of all the afterlife podcasts 757 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,440 Speaker 2: I've done. If you'd like to receive early bird episodes 758 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,440 Speaker 2: commercial free of We Don't Die Radio and get that 759 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,800 Speaker 2: full list that you can search and click on anything. 760 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 2: Head over to We Don'tdie dot com and they're on 761 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,280 Speaker 2: the front page. You'll find the Patreon club. No pressure 762 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,000 Speaker 2: to do that. Those are just for those diehard people, 763 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 2: No pun intended that like my work. Also, while atwdotdie 764 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,480 Speaker 2: dot com, please go to the store page and register 765 00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:42,400 Speaker 2: for our free weekly Sunday gathering. It is the most 766 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 2: empowering online Sunday service going not religious at all, And 767 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:53,279 Speaker 2: in each gathering there is a medium demonstration where you 768 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,200 Speaker 2: can see just how close our loved ones are my friends. 769 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,399 Speaker 2: They are around us, they love us, They work through 770 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 2: our imagination and our feelings to let us know they're 771 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:10,560 Speaker 2: right here. But like these children say, it's glorious where 772 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,480 Speaker 2: we're going to. Not to be afraid. I know easier 773 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 2: said than done, but we'll be greeted, will be helped 774 00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,760 Speaker 2: across the finish line, our loved ones will be there. 775 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,360 Speaker 2: But while we're here, I do think there's something here 776 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 2: that is of real value. So go after your dreams, 777 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 2: make mistakes, get messy, we can always clean up, live, love, forgive, experience, 778 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:44,120 Speaker 2: and have fun as after life pioneer Elizabeth Koobler Ross 779 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:49,200 Speaker 2: says there are no mistakes, no coincidences. All events are 780 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,520 Speaker 2: blessings given to us to learn. Learning lessons is a 781 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,840 Speaker 2: little like reaching maturity. You're not suddenly more happy, wealthy, 782 00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,240 Speaker 2: or powerful, but you understand the world around you better 783 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:06,040 Speaker 2: and you're at peace with yourself. And death is simply 784 00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:09,880 Speaker 2: a shedding of the physical body, like the butterfly shedding 785 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,280 Speaker 2: its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state 786 00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:18,880 Speaker 2: of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, 787 00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,720 Speaker 2: and to grow. This is Sandra Champlain. You've been listening 788 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,520 Speaker 2: to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast 789 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,080 Speaker 2: to Coast am Paranormal podcast Network. 790 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,479 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost 791 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 1: Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 792 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,799 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 793 00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:52,680 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com.