Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress, Friends
Speaker 1: Whipsmarty's fellow lovers of excellent television. We are joined today
Speaker 1: by a woman who I just adore, look up to,
Speaker 1: and who I can't wait to have in front of
Speaker 1: me for a whole hour so I can pepper her
Speaker 1: with questions. Today's guest is Bellamy Young, who you probably
Speaker 1: love as I do from her role playing Melody Mellie
Speaker 1: Grant in ABC's hit series Scandal. Yes, she won the
Speaker 1: Critics Choice Award. Yes, she's gone on to star on
Speaker 1: other series. Yes, she is a singing and acting legend,
Speaker 1: a theater baby, and a brilliant, brilliant, heart forward woman
Speaker 1: who is an author and now a podcast host. She's
Speaker 1: also just one of the loveliest people I have ever met,
Speaker 1: and I can't wait to sit with her today and
Speaker 1: talk about how she balances all these things, her career,
Speaker 1: her fascination in the world, and her work as an
Speaker 1: ambassador with Care. Care is the world's leading humanitarian organization
Speaker 1: that is dedicated to saving lives and defeating poverty around
Speaker 1: the world. And the work that Bellamy has done with Care,
Speaker 1: the women that she's met, the change she has seen
Speaker 1: made in conversations from Honduras to Jordan, to Nepal, to Tanzania,
Speaker 1: to Ukraine to Vietnam to name a few, inspired her
Speaker 1: to make sure the stories that touched her in her
Speaker 1: work could touch the rest of us. So, in partnership
Speaker 1: with Care, she has launched an incredible new limited podcast
Speaker 1: series called she Leads with Care, and she will take
Speaker 1: all of us around the world to have inspiring conversations
Speaker 1: with women leaders that are changing this planet for the better.
Speaker 1: I am absolutely thrilled that she's here, and I can't
Speaker 1: wait to ask her about all of her favorite shows
Speaker 1: and about the life saving work that she gets to
Speaker 1: champion every day. Let's hear from Bellamy Young. How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm so good? How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm great. I'm so excited you're here.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1: Well, I have so many questions for you. I mean,
Speaker 1: first and foremost, I suppose I should say, my president,
Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. What I would give Bellamy?
Speaker 2: I have to laugh because we can't cry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what I would give? It would be so nice.
Speaker 1: But I guess we persist.
Speaker 2: We persist, That's all we can do.
Speaker 1: I have like I said a million questions for you
Speaker 1: about what you're up to and your work and all
Speaker 1: these things. But before we dive into any of that,
Speaker 1: I love to kind of go back to catch up,
Speaker 1: and I want to know about who you were as
Speaker 1: a kid, because there's so much I know about your life,
Speaker 1: your career, your advocacy, your activism, your collegiate career. But
Speaker 1: I wonder if if we could kind of bend space
Speaker 1: time and we could hang out with Bellamy at nine
Speaker 1: while we had this chat, would you see do you
Speaker 1: think you'd see yourself who you are today in her?
Speaker 2: Oh it's such a beautiful question, isn't it, Because we
Speaker 2: I mean, when you do work on yourself, you try
Speaker 2: and bring back little pieces of you that you've strayed
Speaker 2: from over the years. And so that's definitely been a
Speaker 2: question I have asked myself before. I don't think when
Speaker 2: I was nine in nineteen hundred and seventy nine there
Speaker 2: would have been any idea that I could have conceived
Speaker 2: of any part of this life. Like, I'm such a
Speaker 2: twentieth century human, so just the twenty first centuriness of
Speaker 2: it all is continually outside my scope. But I also
Speaker 2: I do think I thought that freedoms and that sort
Speaker 2: of thing were inextricably a course that moved forward. So
Speaker 2: I think I took that for granted as a nine
Speaker 2: year old. I loved to saying when I was nine,
Speaker 2: but I don't think I could have dreamed to have
Speaker 2: a career where I got to do what I loved
Speaker 2: for a living like that didn't seem feasible or practical. Yeah,
Speaker 2: nine year old Amy, she was honey doing some pageants.
Speaker 2: Because that's what happened, North Carolina, North Carol. I was adopted.
Speaker 2: I was in foster care for a little while, and
Speaker 2: my adopted family thought they found out about my biological
Speaker 2: family and so tried to give me opportunities sort of
Speaker 2: based on this one little sheet of paper, like a
Speaker 2: paragraph on my quote unquote mom and two lines on
Speaker 2: my biological dad. I have met them, now, my wonder
Speaker 2: biological parents had the opportunity to meet them. And turns
Speaker 2: out none of that stuff we thought was true true
Speaker 2: at all. So where are they thought that, Oh, her
Speaker 2: biological mother is a singer, so we better give her
Speaker 2: opportunities to sing. And I've met her and she's like
Speaker 2: hmm no, or you know, like so a lot of
Speaker 2: the path of my life was predicated on a mistake.
Speaker 2: But you can also call it fate or luck or grace,
Speaker 2: because I deeply love where I am in my life,
Speaker 2: and I have fought to be able to say that sentence.
Speaker 2: But I stand firmly planted, two feet rooted into the
Speaker 2: ground with gratitude for, like I say, being able to
Speaker 2: get to do what I love, and by the grace
Speaker 2: of that sometimes being able to help anybody who needs it.
Speaker 1: That's so special. And I think it's really interesting. You know.
Speaker 1: You said two things that kind of light up for me,
Speaker 1: that when you work on yourself, you get to collect
Speaker 1: pieces of yourself, and you said that you've fought really
Speaker 1: hard to like your life so much. I think there's
Speaker 1: something really interesting, and this is something I'm kind of
Speaker 1: noodling on in my own journey right now. I wonder
Speaker 1: why it is so many of us who do the
Speaker 1: jobs we do, who entertain who want to bring books
Speaker 1: to life, who want to create these sort of vessels
Speaker 1: or the human experience that might create some empathy or
Speaker 1: some catharsis, or make someone feel seen or represented. It's
Speaker 1: not lost on me that we all are healing while
Speaker 1: we do this. Do you think we get into this
Speaker 1: because we've got stuff we're running away from until we're
Speaker 1: ready to face it, Or do you think we face
Speaker 1: what life gives to us because we have to love
Speaker 1: our characters, and maybe through loving them we learn how
Speaker 1: to love ourselves better.
Speaker 2: I think it's yes, and I think it's all of
Speaker 2: the things, you know. I think, first of all, I
Speaker 2: deeply believe souls come in with a mission and there's
Speaker 2: a heartbreaking, breathtaking randomness for where that soul lands, gender, geography, socioeconomics,
Speaker 2: you know, like because all the souls they come in
Speaker 2: with the same hopes and dreams and wants, but very
Speaker 2: particular path in mind. And I think ours, those of
Speaker 2: us that are drawn into this work and I mean
Speaker 2: this and the largest umbrella, come in on a path
Speaker 2: of empathy. And sometimes we apply that empathy last to ourselves.
Speaker 2: You know. We lead with the curiosity. We often are
Speaker 2: people pleasers, so we try to understand so that we
Speaker 2: can excuse things that we see around us or things
Speaker 2: that are happening in a room or in the world.
Speaker 2: But I do think that the conscious work can begin
Speaker 2: when we take a pause and apply that empathy to
Speaker 2: our own experience life path so that we can get
Speaker 2: sort of clear of the dust storm that is our pain.
Speaker 2: You know, we kind of like rain down a little
Speaker 2: love on that so it settles to the ground, and
Speaker 2: then our vision is cleared. Then we can really cleanly
Speaker 2: use that empathy and curiosity to assess what we see
Speaker 2: around us again in the room or in the world,
Speaker 2: and assess our part in it, because we don't. You know,
Speaker 2: we can't care in everything it's not ours. Is not
Speaker 2: a role for you know, every day, in every situation.
Speaker 2: But we're here for a reason and we can help
Speaker 2: what we can help. And engaging in the world with
Speaker 2: love and curiosity and a full heart. I feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, nobody gets out alive. If we can leave
Speaker 2: this place a little bit better than we found it,
Speaker 2: then I think that's the measure of success.
Speaker 1: I love that it interests me because you've got such
Speaker 1: passion about your calling and about humanity at large. That's
Speaker 1: so clear, And yet you went to school for a
Speaker 1: completely different course of education and took a hard left, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, was my journey. So I'm just absolutely
Speaker 1: geeked on how you figured it out. I thought I
Speaker 1: was going to be a heart surgeon. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be a cardiothoracic surgeon.
Speaker 2: WHOA wait, were there people in your family that are
Speaker 2: surgeons or what to you know? Like little Sophia? How
Speaker 2: did little Sophia be like, no, no, I want to
Speaker 2: cut on hearts.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think for me, I always loved science.
Speaker 1: I'm a naturally kind of nurturing person, and I really
Speaker 1: like to fix things. That's something I've definitely had to
Speaker 1: work on. You know, not everybody wants things to be
Speaker 1: fixed all the time. Sometimes people just need to vent.
Speaker 1: So I've I've learned to say to my loved ones,
Speaker 1: do you want to be heard? Or do you want
Speaker 1: my help? And then I kind of know how to
Speaker 1: be when they're going through something. That's how I stopped
Speaker 1: myself from trying to fix. But I think that natural
Speaker 1: inclination just I don't know. I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was watching medical shows, I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: I just thought that's what I wanted to do. And
Speaker 1: then I sort of got, you know, knocked over the
Speaker 1: head with the beautiful reality that a play was a
Speaker 1: book come to life, and I thought, I actually think
Speaker 1: this is what I want to do. Literature is my
Speaker 1: favorite thing. I think I'm going to go to school
Speaker 1: for theater. And when I told my parents that my
Speaker 1: senior year in high school, you can imagine how well
Speaker 1: that transition went. But here we are. And when I
Speaker 1: was reading about your story, I was like, wait a second,
Speaker 1: wait a second. You were going so hard into science
Speaker 1: and then also pivoted into theater and literature, and how
Speaker 1: how for you? How?
Speaker 2: Oh well, first, let me say, like, you're still doing
Speaker 2: your dream on like in metaphor, You're still like healing
Speaker 2: hearts in your work and in your life and in
Speaker 2: your creative endeavors. So I think I think it's I
Speaker 2: think you stayed true to the impulse, if not the exact,
Speaker 2: you know, non metaphorical implementation of that. So you do
Speaker 2: a good job, little tiny Sophia. You did right. You
Speaker 2: chose right. And I loved science always. It was where
Speaker 2: I felt the most awe and grace. You know, it
Speaker 2: felt what some people feel about organized religion. I and
Speaker 2: I love like. I grew up going to Catholic school.
Speaker 2: I was raised Methodists like that. Religion was part of
Speaker 2: my life growing up as a child, but I always
Speaker 2: saw the human hand in it and that gave me misgivings.
Speaker 2: And with science, I felt that overwhelming smallness and the
Speaker 2: interconnectedness and the wonder and it just pulled me, just
Speaker 2: my whole heart, mind, body, everything was pulled there. And
Speaker 2: you know I was I was doing okay studying, figured
Speaker 2: a couple things out in North Carolina, and got to college.
Speaker 2: And you know, we're not all, not all of us.
Speaker 2: There's not alignment between what we dream and what we
Speaker 2: can do. Some things just have to become interests and
Speaker 2: passions and loves. So I was not that great at
Speaker 2: physics on the international level, and I had to quickly pivot.
Speaker 2: And my mom was an English teacher, still like bless
Speaker 2: her she died in Christmas the twenty twenty three, but
Speaker 2: still one of the best teachers I ever had. Mentally unstable,
Speaker 2: but like the most beautiful mind I've ever come in
Speaker 2: contact with. And so it was a really easy pivot
Speaker 2: to be like, oh, I'll do English because I get that,
Speaker 2: Like she taught me to write, and yeah, I could
Speaker 2: do all I could interpret, like do all that, and
Speaker 2: I thought, oh, I'll do a double major and maybe
Speaker 2: somebody who'll confuse it for thinking. I went to drama
Speaker 2: school so it was a bit of a con and
Speaker 2: a bit of a dodge.
Speaker 1: I that was what happened, And where does the singing
Speaker 1: fit into that.
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't have my first dad, my adopted dad
Speaker 2: had just died before I went to college, and I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have gone so far away. I don't think if
Speaker 2: Yale hadn't had this like amazing a cappella scene, which
Speaker 2: I loved so much. And I thought, Oh, if I
Speaker 2: can get in that school, I can sing and I
Speaker 2: can get a good education, and she can't. My mom
Speaker 2: can't say I shouldn't go because they meet one hundred
Speaker 2: percent of demonstrated financial need. And my mom, like I say,
Speaker 2: it was just a high school English teacher, and so
Speaker 2: not just was a high school English teacher. That is
Speaker 2: a field of people who are not financially rewarded for
Speaker 2: the impact they have on the world. So I applied
Speaker 2: early admission, got deferred. I'm Southern, so I thought they
Speaker 2: were just being polite and that they wouldn't tell me
Speaker 2: later that I was not invited to come to school
Speaker 2: with them. No, I filled out like twelve more applications
Speaker 2: over Christmas, resubmitted my application, and bless their hearts.
Speaker 1: They let me in, but I felt like they were
Speaker 1: giving you a bless your heart.
Speaker 2: I did that, honey, aren't you sweet? I know, bless
Speaker 2: your heart?
Speaker 1: You are just you are just lovely. I'm so cute
Speaker 1: you aplied, Oh my god. And now for our sponsors,
Speaker 1: I would imagine just you know, based on what you're sharing,
Speaker 1: it's so clear how much you loved your mom and
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, you know, for her passing. And when
Speaker 1: we heal, we have to be really honest about what
Speaker 1: we come from. And you know, you talk about her
Speaker 1: instability and the all the sort of good old college
Speaker 1: tries that she gave. Love that wasn't always good for her.
Speaker 1: Was was being able to get far enough away to
Speaker 1: you know, not go home to do your laundry or
Speaker 1: not have a surprise visit, you know, from a parent
Speaker 1: to the dorms. Did that also give you a respite
Speaker 1: to kind of find yourself and your own independent strength
Speaker 1: from what was being modeled for you at home, you know,
Speaker 1: both the amazing and the dedicated and the heart.
Speaker 2: I love that you're being gracious enough to use the
Speaker 2: past tense because that was a lifelong situation. I mean,
Speaker 2: I la wasn't far enough, you know, like I it was,
Speaker 2: because when you're a heart and your mind and your
Speaker 2: mental health, they're intertwined like that. Physical distance is sort
Speaker 2: of ancillary. You know, it's great they can't walk in
Speaker 2: your room in the moment of any day. It's great
Speaker 2: they can't be up in your physical business all the time.
Speaker 2: But you know, there were still decades of time where
Speaker 2: I spent you know, three hours a day on the
Speaker 2: phone with her and told her everything that I did,
Speaker 2: and you know, there was there. It was a long,
Speaker 2: long road of healing and I won't say clear like division,
Speaker 2: but it took a lot of work. My very first
Speaker 2: therapist when I got to LA was like, Okay, you're
Speaker 2: going home for Christmas, so I just want to give
Speaker 2: you the opportunity to while you're there, put on your
Speaker 2: lab coat, just in your mind, little white coat that
Speaker 2: you can just observe. And that was sort of the
Speaker 2: first little bit of little bit of distance. Like you said,
Speaker 2: it's so beautifully do you need me to little listen
Speaker 2: or do you need me to fix this? Like that's
Speaker 2: just knowing there's a little separation, that there's all love
Speaker 2: and we're holding it all with love. But there's choice
Speaker 2: in that cushion, that buffer zone, there is choice. And
Speaker 2: so that began many many decades of loving work, seeing
Speaker 2: both of us for who we really really were. And
Speaker 2: now that she's gone, that was the part of the
Speaker 2: healing too. Is not forgetting any of it, because it
Speaker 2: all just like everything in the world, it all informs
Speaker 2: who we are and what we do, what we choose
Speaker 2: for our lives, for ourselves every moment of every day.
Speaker 2: And if we are ignoring things or you know, deciding
Speaker 2: that that's not factoring in, it's all factoring in. It,
Speaker 2: all filters in it, all factors in. And so the
Speaker 2: most loving thing to do is to be present enough
Speaker 2: to notice and decide with intention and yeah, which is presence.
Speaker 2: That's what that's what. That's that that wound up being
Speaker 2: that softness because I for so many years tried to
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna be good at this, or I did
Speaker 2: this right, or you know, all the silly stuff that's forced.
Speaker 2: And when you realize that the softness of presence is
Speaker 2: the true source of power, seat of power, and from
Speaker 2: that all decisions can flow, and decisions that you're far
Speaker 2: prouder of. So that's that was that journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so beautiful. I think soft power is something
Speaker 1: that's really been underestimated. And you know, it's not lost
Speaker 1: on me that we're at a moment in the world
Speaker 1: where I think there's a lot of shock, you know,
Speaker 1: not just in our country but around the globe at
Speaker 1: seeing the US kind of rip up all of its
Speaker 1: pledges to its like softest and best kinds of power,
Speaker 1: you know, the things that won the Cold War, the
Speaker 1: things that have led to better global health outcomes, and
Speaker 1: the kind of thirty thousand foot view, you know, the
Speaker 1: space station view. Maybe if we're talking about the whole world,
Speaker 1: it's not lost on me that we see that in
Speaker 1: kind of every level of society and what works and
Speaker 1: what doesn't. And when you talk about how you've had
Speaker 1: to carry this sort of you know, more whole version
Speaker 1: of yourself throughout your life and through all your work,
Speaker 1: and you know, out in LA and back back now
Speaker 1: on the East Coast, I've experienced a version of a
Speaker 1: soft power. And it's something you know, your your lab
Speaker 1: coat analogy. I'm like, oh, yeah, I do that. Sometimes
Speaker 1: the stand back and observe isn't something I think I
Speaker 1: felt as confident to do as a younger person, I
Speaker 1: was so scared that people would think I didn't know
Speaker 1: what I was doing if I didn't have input or
Speaker 1: a way to help. And now I'm very happy to
Speaker 1: just sit and listen. And I have observed the most
Speaker 1: beautiful soft power in the Shonda Rhimes world. Ow oow that,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And of course everybody wants us to
Speaker 1: talk about scandal, and I want to ask you six
Speaker 1: hundred and forty seven questions about it because I loved
Speaker 1: it so much.
Speaker 2: I have six hundred and forty eight answers, thank god.
Speaker 1: But it's dawning on me as i'm listening to you
Speaker 1: talk that some of what I've seen in the Gray's
Speaker 1: Anatomy world, watching her, watching Ellen, watching Kim Ray, for
Speaker 1: watching all these people what She's built are these spaces
Speaker 1: where people are excellent. But it's not like a bullied demand.
Speaker 1: It's a you can be this, and if you come
Speaker 1: in here, this is the level we play at. It's
Speaker 1: like an elite sport and it's kind and it's tender,
Speaker 1: and people have real honor and gratitude about their jobs.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I don't think it's an accident
Speaker 1: that we're having this conversation in this moment, because now
Speaker 1: you've obviously got the perspective on what cultural phenomenon the
Speaker 1: show was, how valuable it was to all of us,
Speaker 1: how it got us through the first two years of
Speaker 1: the current president's first term. Did you have any clue
Speaker 1: how different it was when you read the pilot script
Speaker 1: or could you just not even have imagined it yet?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, they didn't let me read the script.
Speaker 2: I was just I'm just in for a recurring I
Speaker 2: had no pilot, Sophia. I'm so lucky. I fell ass
Speaker 2: backwards into that dream and I am so lucky. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's you know, it changed my life utterly, utterly. There's
Speaker 2: no Quali fire to that. It changed my life, full stop, period,
Speaker 2: deep gasp of gratitude. So no, I don't I don't
Speaker 2: think I was given the script. I read it when
Speaker 2: I got a part of time that I went and
Speaker 2: did it, and but I can tell you it was
Speaker 2: and the you know, the pilot's always one thing. But
Speaker 2: when we came back and did those first seven and
Speaker 2: I was just supposed to be there for three, so
Speaker 2: I was like, right, but it was instantly different, and
Speaker 2: I've I'm lucky enough to have, you know, been a
Speaker 2: guest star on a thousand things, and so you as
Speaker 2: a guest star, you really see it all because nobody's
Speaker 2: behaving well around you. You really see the truth. No
Speaker 2: one cares what you think, so they don't care enough
Speaker 2: to hide anything. So I was like, oh, man, so
Speaker 2: I've been on a thousand sets and I got to
Speaker 2: Scandal and it was just instantly different. It was just
Speaker 2: instantly different, and over the course of the seven years,
Speaker 2: only grew in that regard. And you said something that
Speaker 2: it made me realize. It was we were all seen.
Speaker 2: So we were hired to do what was inside us
Speaker 2: and that we could share, and then we were supported
Speaker 2: in every way so that we could give that. Not
Speaker 2: in the coddled actors get everything, you know, like what
Speaker 2: kind of algae do you want in your smoothie? Kind
Speaker 2: of good no, But in a oh you want to
Speaker 2: have a baby, great, let me, you don't have to
Speaker 2: stop work. Let's figure out how to do this. And
Speaker 2: now's the time to do this because you also have
Speaker 2: a paycheck. So this is wonderful. Where when Katie got
Speaker 2: to have a baby on the show, Carrie had a
Speaker 2: couple like and we would Iola could bring her kids
Speaker 2: to work. You know, we made a whole space for
Speaker 2: the kids to play in event. But we you know,
Speaker 2: no problem, let's incorporate little breaks. I think we called
Speaker 2: it hummingbird when people would have to would need to
Speaker 2: go breastfeed. I mean, this is care that is not
Speaker 2: regular on a set and also doesn't take much effort
Speaker 2: and yields. You know, you still have your seventeen hour
Speaker 2: workdays and they're still wearing stiletto's high as my eyeballs
Speaker 2: and remembering all their lines and doing their perfect work
Speaker 2: and also being a mother, and it was just lovely. Also,
Speaker 2: I do remember wow, when someone lady wanted to do
Speaker 2: what was having a first go at intimate moment and
Speaker 2: we're a little uncomfortable with the notion, and Shanda immediate
Speaker 2: was like, listen, I need you guys to kiss in
Speaker 2: the scene, but if you're more comfortable kissing in a parka,
Speaker 2: I'll put you outside like I'll do like however you
Speaker 2: want it. I just need the emotional connection. I'm not
Speaker 2: here to exploit you now. Meanwhile, I realized that Tony
Speaker 2: and Scott had to take their shirt off all the time,
Speaker 2: So I realized I realized there's a balance, but listen, listen.
Speaker 2: But no, it was always and Carrie also must be
Speaker 2: credited with being an incredible, thoughtful, indefatigable number one. I
Speaker 2: mean the first year that we did press together. I
Speaker 2: remember she was somewhere maybe in Italy doing django press
Speaker 2: at that point, and Carrie and Darby and I were
Speaker 2: going to some someone who knows one of the early
Speaker 2: our times on the carpet, and you know, she knew
Speaker 2: we didn't know much about doing anything on the carpet.
Speaker 2: You get a text from Carrie like, what do you need?
Speaker 2: Do you know? You know this is how you stand?
Speaker 2: Do you have stylists? Like? I mean, we were just
Speaker 2: really held in love in that whole show, and we
Speaker 2: everybody met it with love, a bunch of theater kids,
Speaker 2: just grateful to have the jobs and showing up for
Speaker 2: each other. And it steel that way like with still
Speaker 2: my family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I
Speaker 1: really enjoy and I think you will too. It's so sweet.
Speaker 1: Whenever I get to see you all together, it just
Speaker 1: brings me so much joy because you you made something enormous,
Speaker 1: but you also you make it in this little world
Speaker 1: and as much as all of us who watched it
Speaker 1: got to enjoy it, nobody was on that ride but
Speaker 1: you all. And there's just something priceless about that. I
Speaker 1: feel the same way with you know, all my castmates
Speaker 1: from my first show from One Tree Hill, Like we
Speaker 1: show up for each other and it it gave me
Speaker 1: the sort of familial experience I'd never had, because you know,
Speaker 1: especially when you start at twenty, like we were babies.
Speaker 1: We were all stupid and you know, adorable, but we
Speaker 1: didn't know you know, our ass from our elbow, And
Speaker 1: it's like when you go through those things together. I
Speaker 1: finally remember saying to a girlfriend of mine, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I get now why my friends with siblings can be
Speaker 1: in a knockdown, drag out family fight for a week
Speaker 1: with their siblings, but if somebody on the playground talks
Speaker 1: about their siblings, they're going to get laid out. And
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, I get it. There's a It is
Speaker 1: a really kind of priceless dynamic. And I think, what
Speaker 1: a cool thing for you all to have been able
Speaker 1: to do that, and also probably to have been able
Speaker 1: to do it like a little more from your adulthood.
Speaker 1: You probably had even more fun than we did.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, that's the other thing. We were all
Speaker 2: old people already like when we started, so there was
Speaker 2: no like everybody had a burgeoning at least sense of self.
Speaker 2: So there was less acting out and confusion, and you know,
Speaker 2: because La is such a headspinner, much less success. So
Speaker 2: we were all pretty grounded about all of that. And
Speaker 2: if we were, Carrie instantly grounded, you know, like she
Speaker 2: was like, I remember we were season five. They wanted
Speaker 2: us to do Good Morning America to launch the season,
Speaker 2: and we were like, eh, that means we have to
Speaker 2: be in here and makeup at one thirty AM. And
Speaker 2: Carrie's like, well, I'm going to be here. I think
Speaker 2: it's amazing They're gonna promote us season five of a show.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's really special. And we were all like,
Speaker 2: she's right, she's right, right, She's.
Speaker 1: Like, mom's right, Mom's right. She does She's got such
Speaker 1: a beautiful she has such a spirit of leadership. Everything
Speaker 1: she does. I just absolutely adore her.
Speaker 2: The level of thoughtfulness, it's a little boggling, it really is.
Speaker 2: And how hard she works to make this world a
Speaker 2: better place, you know, through her work, through activism, everything That's.
Speaker 1: What's really interesting is that's how she and I are friends.
Speaker 2: I know from you know, the same persons, be much
Speaker 2: the same wonderful person here making things better just like
Speaker 2: everything in your mind, body, soul, to like be of
Speaker 2: service and love.
Speaker 1: It's been really special to have her sort of you know,
Speaker 1: in my group of political peers, if you will, to
Speaker 1: have somebody who likewise I know, is up at two
Speaker 1: in the morning reading you know, the report on maternal
Speaker 1: wellness and will listen to me, you know, yam or
Speaker 1: about it. It's it's so I think special and I've
Speaker 1: thought a lot about it for all of you. Because
Speaker 1: the world of Scandal was amazing, you guys, as actor
Speaker 1: is the chemistry between people, the writing, I mean, that
Speaker 1: work was amazing and culturally to begin that show when
Speaker 1: when Barack Obama was the president, to take us into
Speaker 1: the first two years of Trump's first term, it's such
Speaker 1: a cultural phenomenon, not just an entertainment phenomenon. Do you
Speaker 1: think now, looking back, do you think we needed to
Speaker 1: be in the time of Obama for Scandal to be possible?
Speaker 1: And do you think it helped people care maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit more about politics because I don't know if
Speaker 1: I don't know as a viewer, if the Resistance would
Speaker 1: have spoken the language so well, so fast had y'all
Speaker 1: not been on the air.
Speaker 2: Oh I hope Seana hears you say that.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: I think that would. I think she'd be really grateful
Speaker 2: that you held that thought in your heart, even for
Speaker 2: a moment. You know what she's always told us because
Speaker 2: I can't speak to her, you know, process or intentions,
Speaker 2: But what she's always told us is how much she
Speaker 2: loved the West Wing and how much she always wanted
Speaker 2: to write her West Wing And you're right, come on
Speaker 2: and and that you know, her enduring commitment is that
Speaker 2: television looked like the world. Yes, so this was she
Speaker 2: met Judy Smith, who Scandal is based on, and she thought, oh,
Speaker 2: that's not in and she just all of a sudden
Speaker 2: could see She was like, this is my DC story.
Speaker 2: But that's also why it was. She knew it had
Speaker 2: an ending spot. And I do think we squeaked out
Speaker 2: one extra year because of real life circumstances. I don't
Speaker 2: think Mellie would have been president. I think, oh, Jeff,
Speaker 2: I think Jeff was supposed to have I think Jeff
Speaker 2: was supposed to have you know, he won, and then
Speaker 2: we shot him or soon I can't even remember. I'm
Speaker 2: not even sure, but I know I wasn't and then
Speaker 2: I was. And I do think that was I think
Speaker 2: she had some things to say from the mouth of
Speaker 2: a female president because she had been writing on Hillary's
Speaker 2: campaign and so I just think she was ready to
Speaker 2: write some speeches that she did not have the opportunity
Speaker 2: to write, and so maybe imported herself the right opportunity
Speaker 2: to share some of those ideas.
Speaker 1: I love that, gosh, because I was going to ask,
Speaker 1: when you're doing something so special with people you love
Speaker 1: so much, you don't want it to end.
Speaker 2: So we didn't want it to end.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was going to ask, Like, did
Speaker 1: you feel ready to move on? But maybe if I
Speaker 1: guess never, but also if you got an extra year, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that must feel so great.
Speaker 2: I think so. And I like, I say, you'll see
Speaker 2: shot it one day and you'll ask her the truth
Speaker 2: of it. But I think that was everybody's feeling. And
Speaker 2: I know Josh was like, please, my kid is still
Speaker 2: in college, you know, just a couple more years and
Speaker 2: we would have stayed together forever. And also we knew
Speaker 2: she was right to finish where she knew she wanted
Speaker 2: to finish. You know, it's we've all also been on
Speaker 2: shows that are still going past maybe where they should
Speaker 2: have landed. And I want everybody to have jobs. God knows.
Speaker 2: And also it does feel a little more like work
Speaker 2: when you're in that phase. So it never fell in
Speaker 2: one day. One day on our set never felt like work.
Speaker 2: It always felt like joy and curiosity and there was
Speaker 2: a story to tell and we were lucky to be
Speaker 2: there telling it together.
Speaker 1: You guys all had such great language, and that's something
Speaker 1: I think is true of the West Wing as well.
Speaker 1: Like Aaron Sorkin writes the hell out of a Scene,
Speaker 1: Shonda Rhymes writes the hell out of a scene. Did
Speaker 1: it take getting used to the kind of cadence and
Speaker 1: the politics of it all? Or do you feel like
Speaker 1: you really just found yourself in all of that dialogue
Speaker 1: and in all of that verbage? Really?
Speaker 2: No, we all like scandal paste was a real thing,
Speaker 2: and we drill, drill, drilled. Like I say, we're like
Speaker 2: theater babies, so we're having to run lines and like
Speaker 2: just you just get it till it's so in your
Speaker 2: marrow that you can, you know, a walk and talk
Speaker 2: is like impossible, but like walk down those halls and
Speaker 2: hit it hard, speeding like Tabasco style, and then like
Speaker 2: you know, not mess up the steady cam guy. It took.
Speaker 2: It was quite intentional, and I think they found it.
Speaker 2: I can't speak to that. Katie Lows will be able
Speaker 2: to speak to that. I feel like they found it
Speaker 2: in Katie's audition really just because Katie's a natural fast talker,
Speaker 2: and it just it was always great writing, but with
Speaker 2: the speed, it just lived, it just sang and and
Speaker 2: are you know it was so hard for guest stars.
Speaker 2: It's so hard to step into that and meet that pace.
Speaker 2: And I always, you know, we were a loving embrace
Speaker 2: for anyone that joined us, but the pace was a
Speaker 2: bit of a sissaphi and hurdle that we loved it.
Speaker 2: And having Shonda in my brain, I mean, I am
Speaker 2: a lord, I am a bear of I am self
Speaker 2: doubting little bear constantly, and having Shanda's sort of Shanda's
Speaker 2: idea of Mellie like my way or the Highway seventeen
Speaker 2: hours a day, five days a week, was personally radically transformative.
Speaker 2: Just the act as f of it all. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: some people live in this life a whole different way
Speaker 2: than I am, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she.
Speaker 2: Give us these little perfect one act plays like me
Speaker 2: and Tony and Jeffy are just Oh, it was just
Speaker 2: the most satisfying creative experience my stars.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's just so cool. It's so cool.
Speaker 1: If you had the chance to do some sort of
Speaker 1: a reunion, like a reboot or a movie or something,
Speaker 1: would you just jump.
Speaker 2: We'd all get on a plane tonight. I thought there's
Speaker 2: nobody that would be like, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: we'd have to carry's busy, we'd have to work around
Speaker 2: our schedule. But I think she'd do it too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's so much love and yeah, yeah in an.
Speaker 1: Instant, Oh, I love that so much. Now, when right
Speaker 1: around when the show was ending, you started working with
Speaker 1: care right that was all twenty eighteen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I started in twenty eighteen exactly.
Speaker 1: And was that an organization you met through the political
Speaker 1: world kind of overlap of scandal or did that happen
Speaker 1: in a completely different way.
Speaker 2: My dear friend Renee Jones that I know through Uta
Speaker 2: is who drew them into my life and me into theirs.
Speaker 2: And I was so grateful because of course we all
Speaker 2: know care care is the care package. You know, it's
Speaker 2: eighty years old because right after the Second World War,
Speaker 2: humans in America realized that humans in Europe might need
Speaker 2: things because they've been bombed and gone through a war
Speaker 2: and or impoverished and in need, and so they would
Speaker 2: make these care packages and send them to Europe and
Speaker 2: it made such an impact and everybody, you've gotten a
Speaker 2: care package right in your life or send them, and
Speaker 2: you know how loved you feel. And from that this
Speaker 2: incredible organization group from that little acorn, and there's still
Speaker 2: that bespoke, thoughtful intentional organization. They go into local areas
Speaker 2: and they ask what the need is, and then they
Speaker 2: hire from the local area. They hire folks and help
Speaker 2: create infrastructure that allows those folks to create lasting, transformational,
Speaker 2: intergenerational change for themselves. And cares Gooal is like teach
Speaker 2: a man to fish. We don't want to be there forever,
Speaker 2: and we don't want you know, we aren't just like
Speaker 2: giving you aid in a way that we think you need.
Speaker 2: It's very thoughtful, intentional, local based, and they plan for
Speaker 2: their own obsolescence so that change can continue to happen
Speaker 2: and I loved that they you know, they have the
Speaker 2: data right like the Sun says, if you lift up
Speaker 2: women and girls, they bring their families and their communities
Speaker 2: with them. So that's how they focus their work is
Speaker 2: in partnership with women and girls, giving them, you know,
Speaker 2: safe spaces to learn and to get healthcare and to
Speaker 2: have market access. And it's just been transformational, truly transformational,
Speaker 2: but still born out of that just humans knowing that
Speaker 2: we're all connected, wanting to help other humans.
Speaker 1: It changes everything, It.
Speaker 2: Surely does, like the tiniest thing, the tiniest thing I
Speaker 2: think about. Actually, the episodes just came out today. Lillian
Speaker 2: who works in the Care Office of Tantania. She's the
Speaker 2: only care officer we talked to. We should talk to
Speaker 2: care program participants, but she was saying she's done over
Speaker 2: seven hundred Village Savings and Loans vslas and helped over
Speaker 2: ten thousand people changed their lives. So she told this
Speaker 2: story about going into this village and saying, you know,
Speaker 2: what do you need what would help you the most?
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, this or that and the other
Speaker 2: thing that they're like. She was like, no, no, you
Speaker 2: what do you need? What do you need? In your life,
Speaker 2: that would make your life better. And the women thought
Speaker 2: and they said, oh, well, it'd be so good if
Speaker 2: we didn't have to take our kids to the fields
Speaker 2: with us to harvest, because it's like very hard to
Speaker 2: manage our children and get the crops. And she said,
Speaker 2: oh great, so let's make a daycare. And the village
Speaker 2: Vsla made a daycare and started with just twenty one
Speaker 2: kids from the people who were doing the harvesting. And
Speaker 2: this year, this is maybe four years later, and they're
Speaker 2: doing a brick and mortar school for ninety three students
Speaker 2: and it's transformed everything. Of course, it's also return on
Speaker 2: the investment of the women's money, of course, but it
Speaker 2: allows them just to breathe a little, to go to
Speaker 2: work and do well at their job, and their kids
Speaker 2: have a good meal and have some education and transformational
Speaker 2: change that just takes somebody saying what do you need?
Speaker 2: How can I help?
Speaker 1: And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. You're talking
Speaker 1: about my exact favorite kind of thing, which is when
Speaker 1: the math and the morals meet, because so many people
Speaker 1: think that you can do well or you can do
Speaker 1: good for the world, and that is like a complete lie.
Speaker 1: Usually set in motion by the powers that be who
Speaker 1: want to hoard wealth and not share with people, and
Speaker 1: programs like the ones you're talking about. When you invest
Speaker 1: in a community that some might call underdeveloped or whatever
Speaker 1: you're adjective, sometimes all people need is a jumpstart. It's
Speaker 1: not that different to certain states in our country getting
Speaker 1: huge economic boosters with the infrastructure build that President Biden
Speaker 1: and Vice President Harris passed. When you get an infrastructure
Speaker 1: project and you're going to reinforce and upgrade every bridge
Speaker 1: in a community like I don't know, Pittsburgh famous for bridges,
Speaker 1: not only does that make your roads safer, but everybody
Speaker 1: in town who works construction, steel car rentals trucking you
Speaker 1: down the line to the sandwich shops at the ends
Speaker 1: of the bridges. Everybody's making more money. And so sometimes
Speaker 1: all you need is you need the wind in the
Speaker 1: pinwheel to get it going, and then it keeps going.
Speaker 1: And so it's why I think organizations like care are
Speaker 1: so special because exactly what you said, they're not coming
Speaker 1: in saying we're here to help and we know what's best,
Speaker 1: and now we're going to build an office here and
Speaker 1: work going to have employees. They're saying we're going to
Speaker 1: come help you get started, and the pinwheels yours and
Speaker 1: that's the way we heal. I think, not just neighborhoods
Speaker 1: and municipalities, but the planet. And it's why I think
Speaker 1: it's so cool that you're using your platform not just
Speaker 1: to work with them, but this story you're talking about
Speaker 1: when you said the episode for our friends at home.
Speaker 1: Bellamy launched a podcast called she Leads with Care, and
Speaker 1: it's so inspiring to hear these stories of these incredible
Speaker 1: you know, volunteers, helpers, organizers. I've listened to some of
Speaker 1: this and gon, oh, that's a really good thing to
Speaker 1: take to our local food bank or I want to
Speaker 1: send this to three of my friends who really care
Speaker 1: about maternal wellness and have them listen to this because
Speaker 1: it feels relevant to what we're working on, you know,
Speaker 1: with mom that are fire victims in LA and like
Speaker 1: it's it's such a lovely place to sit and be inspired.
Speaker 1: So thank you for doing this, not just because the
Speaker 1: world needs it, but like selfishly, I really needed it.
Speaker 1: I've been so sad and stressed out.
Speaker 2: No, that's why I did it. It came during COVID.
Speaker 2: I was so alone and depressed and feeling so unconnected
Speaker 2: to the world, and I kept looking for stories of
Speaker 2: hope and connection, and I kept coming back to these
Speaker 2: care stories. Yes, I I thought, oh, if I need this,
Speaker 2: why are we not sharing these women's stories with the world.
Speaker 2: And it's not mine to tell you got to let
Speaker 2: them tell their story, you know, I mean, it's there's
Speaker 2: no substitute for a lived experience. And I don't never
Speaker 2: want to put words in anybody's mouth. So we just
Speaker 2: set up, set out to try and and it turned
Speaker 2: to be you know, we're novices. You're so good at this,
Speaker 2: but we were. We had a long learning curve with
Speaker 2: doing a podcast in multiple languages all around the world,
Speaker 2: shipping by you know, getting women to you know, four
Speaker 2: hours where there where there might be Wi Fi and
Speaker 2: from really rural locations, and translating and you know, doing voiceover.
Speaker 2: You know that's appropriate to the region and to the
Speaker 2: woman because you want her life, her life force to stay.
Speaker 2: But it just meant everything to me. And this year
Speaker 2: was an especially hard year. Last year in particular, and
Speaker 2: in so many ways personally and in the world. And
Speaker 2: every time I would sit down to have a conversation,
Speaker 2: I would I would cry like more time I was
Speaker 2: during the conversation, just out of gratitude and awe and
Speaker 2: the humble enormity of first of all, again going back
Speaker 2: to the twentieth twenty first century living. That I can
Speaker 2: have a conversation with somebody in Nepal and you know,
Speaker 2: ask them about to tell me about their lived experience
Speaker 2: is a miracle. It's magical. It's so cool. And then
Speaker 2: to like learn about all these things and to be
Speaker 2: reminded also of the grace and gifts that we have.
Speaker 2: I particularly think about village savings and loans. Like you're saying,
Speaker 2: we still in the world so many places women don't
Speaker 2: have access to financial freedom. I know in America it
Speaker 2: was what nineteen seventy four when women could get a
Speaker 2: bank account, and there is in my lifetime. I was
Speaker 2: born in nineteen hundred and seventy. I spent since my
Speaker 2: lifetime that a woman could get alone and could get
Speaker 2: a bank account and that kind of thing in America.
Speaker 2: So that still doesn't happen in the rest of the world.
Speaker 2: So allowing people not even investing in people, allowing women
Speaker 2: to invest in themselves so much.
Speaker 1: I know it was nineteen seventy four, I believe was
Speaker 1: a bank account, and then I can't recall. I'm going
Speaker 1: to look and I'll follow up with you. It was
Speaker 1: like nineteen eighty three or nineteen eighty eight for a business.
Speaker 2: Loan, business loan. You're right, that's true.
Speaker 1: What what? And to your point, you know, we use
Speaker 1: that data that ninety percent reinvestment around the world. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a stat that we use, you know, in
Speaker 1: philanthropy and social change to talk about building a better
Speaker 1: global economy. And it's often ascribed to, you know, the
Speaker 1: developing world. Whatever that you know means depending on who's
Speaker 1: using the term. And women reinvest ninety percent of what
Speaker 1: you invest in them into their children and into their
Speaker 1: community and into their families. And with men, they invest
Speaker 1: ninety percent in themselves. So the ROI on us is major.
Speaker 1: And now when you look at America, women are the
Speaker 1: single largest creators of small businesses in the country and
Speaker 1: among women, yes, among women women of color or leading.
Speaker 1: And so the way I think about it when I
Speaker 1: put on you know, my financial hat, my investor hat,
Speaker 1: is if fifty one percent of the population has historically
Speaker 1: been under resourced, we've been underserved yep, which means we're
Speaker 1: missing out on profits. Fifty one percent of the population
Speaker 1: could be generating. And if women of color in particular
Speaker 1: have experienced so much more withholding, they get underfunded at
Speaker 1: so much a greater rate than even you or I
Speaker 1: would imagine how much unmade profit is sitting in those
Speaker 1: sectors of our country. So I get really excited when
Speaker 1: we start to be able to prove these metrics because
Speaker 1: all it means is that everybody does.
Speaker 2: Better, everybody wins these And it's not wins, it's it's opportunities,
Speaker 2: it's cultural growth, it's social change, it's.
Speaker 1: The GDP of a country. Yeah, it's all of it.
Speaker 1: And it goes back to what we were talking about
Speaker 1: about sets. What you guys, what you can identify and
Speaker 1: name that you had on the set of Scandal because
Speaker 1: women were in seats of power, benefited the men also.
Speaker 1: And I will never forget one of the most impactful
Speaker 1: days of my whole career full circle moment, playing a
Speaker 1: cardiothoracic surgeon on a TV show.
Speaker 2: My mom was like, she finally did it.
Speaker 1: My wonderful head of props lovely man named Jordan, local
Speaker 1: Toronto guy, one of my favorite humans I've ever worked with.
Speaker 1: Sidled up to me one day and I'd been meeting
Speaker 1: with our camera department to go over something, and he said,
Speaker 1: you know, I really love coming to work here. And
Speaker 1: I was like, Jordan. I was like, dude, we love you.
Speaker 1: And he goes, he goes, I love you, man. And
Speaker 1: I always feel really special when my guy friends call me.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I made it in and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he goes, I love you, man. He goes, But it's
Speaker 1: bigger than that. He said, you and Katie, because our
Speaker 1: showrunner was a wonderful woman named Katie Wesh. She said,
Speaker 1: you've made this place so nice and it's really nice
Speaker 1: for me too, And like, I'm a single white guy
Speaker 1: with inexpendable income and I'm having a nicer time than
Speaker 1: I normally do. And I was like, that's it, Like
Speaker 1: that's it. Everybody's happier because somebody thought about childcare. Everybody's
Speaker 1: doing better because somebody thought about lived experiences of everyone
Speaker 1: in the room, so everyone's quality of life got better.
Speaker 2: I think about you think on the first trip I
Speaker 2: went for a care I went to Rwanda in twenty
Speaker 2: nineteen and I met this woman named Bridget who was
Speaker 2: a VSLA participant. She'd saved up just like well we
Speaker 2: think of as pennies from what her husband would give
Speaker 2: her to get groceries or to get soap or whatever.
Speaker 2: And it took about a year to save up enough
Speaker 2: to invest in herself and join a VSLA, and another
Speaker 2: year till it came time for them to invest in her.
Speaker 2: And they're like, what's your dream? You know what, what
Speaker 2: do you need to take out of the fund? And
Speaker 2: she wanted five chickens and they got She got the
Speaker 2: five chickens and you know, paid back her investment and
Speaker 2: all that sort of thing. I met her almost six
Speaker 2: years later. Honey, she had a thousand chickens, She had
Speaker 2: two farms. She employed three men that she gave the community.
Speaker 2: She got eight hundred and fifty eggs a day. So
Speaker 2: the nutrition in the community, which had usually subsisted on
Speaker 2: cassava and cassava based products, God had soared through the room.
Speaker 2: But what one of the things that made her happiest
Speaker 2: is that her marriage was better. It was so much
Speaker 2: happier and kinder in her house because there was equality,
Speaker 2: less fear less status. And I just think about that
Speaker 2: when we're all allowed to participate with our whole heart.
Speaker 2: We're all allowed to give all that we have to give.
Speaker 2: Then everything calms down, yeah, and everything is everything can
Speaker 2: reach its highest potential.
Speaker 1: Well, and what that is is it's the opposite of scarcity.
Speaker 2: And whether there's scarcity or not, scarcity mindset even, that's it.
Speaker 1: But this idea that you know, pre nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 1: god forbid, you had a bank account, what are you
Speaker 1: going to do with it? You're not looking to use
Speaker 1: it as a bully club. You just want to build something.
Speaker 1: And so I think the US and them thing is
Speaker 1: so toxic because what it actually does is it just
Speaker 1: puts everyone in the scarcity mindset. It puts everyone in
Speaker 1: the competitive experience in their own house, like your friend Bridget.
Speaker 1: And then you flip it. Everybody grows, Everybody does better.
Speaker 1: Incomes get bigger and more stable, education gets bigger and
Speaker 1: more stable, nutrition in community gets bigger, expanded, more stable,
Speaker 1: and everybody's just doing better. And her husband didn't lose
Speaker 1: anything because she succeeded. They both won. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: the two of them, the one plus one became three, yeah,
Speaker 1: instead of one and one fighting over one.
Speaker 2: And I think that.
Speaker 1: Is that's a universal story, and that's part of why
Speaker 1: I think your your podcast, like everybody you're interviewing around
Speaker 1: the world, is in a unique place with a unique experience,
Speaker 1: but the core of the story is so universal. And
Speaker 1: when I'm you know, sitting here pouring over the articles
Speaker 1: and panicking about you know, what's going to happen to
Speaker 1: all the kids that are about to lose access to
Speaker 1: education with no Department of ED, Podcasts like yours are
Speaker 1: really fortifying for me. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2: It did land at an unexpected time. We were worried
Speaker 2: no one would be interested in these stories. Now they're everything,
Speaker 2: because you need to know what it means to help
Speaker 2: one another, what it means to care, what's possible when
Speaker 2: we care?
Speaker 1: Just let yeah, And I think to be reminded that
Speaker 1: you can build against all odds, and so no matter
Speaker 1: what is taken a part here, we have us and
Speaker 1: that I think is so meaningful. Does it ever overwhelm
Speaker 1: you or does it feel more exciting that so much
Speaker 1: of this platform that you've built is so clearly positive.
Speaker 1: Is it weird to think like I was a kid
Speaker 1: who grew up and wanted to sing and maybe study science,
Speaker 1: and now I'm like, out here is this you know,
Speaker 1: positive influence for social change and activism and advocacy. Is
Speaker 1: it crazy a little bit? Or does it just feel right?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess I haven't stepped back and
Speaker 2: look at it now. I'm like, oh no, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think when I engage in socials it is often
Speaker 2: with trepidation because I'm always afraid of going to see
Speaker 2: something that crushes me.
Speaker 1: Because people are so mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's really like it. It takes Yeah, it
Speaker 2: takes a lot. I have. I have fear around it,
Speaker 2: so I never want to be a part of contributing
Speaker 2: to anyone else's fear. I want if somebody notices something
Speaker 2: that I have in my heart and want to share,
Speaker 2: I want them to feel like they got hugged afterwards.
Speaker 2: I want them to feel a little bit better about themselves.
Speaker 2: I want them maybe to remember that that's that joy
Speaker 2: is in them too. Oh yeah, I had a day
Speaker 2: like that too, or you know, like to see themselves
Speaker 2: reflected and to see a space for safety and love.
Speaker 2: I really really, that's all I want. That's what I
Speaker 2: want to share. And also I'll say in these times
Speaker 2: where I get scared and hopeless and start to feel
Speaker 2: disconnected again. Like in COVID. The only tonic is to
Speaker 2: know that people are doing the work, and that if
Speaker 2: we all did just you know, if we all just
Speaker 2: made a few choices in our day that connected us,
Speaker 2: if we were all just a little bit of service,
Speaker 2: or if we all just raised up a little bit
Speaker 2: of positivity, the reget like that butterfly effect, those ripples. Oooh,
Speaker 2: I mean that's been nothing could stop us with that
Speaker 2: intentional love and that sort of the fuel and the
Speaker 2: engine of that progress. Goodness, inclusion, help, just helping each other.
Speaker 2: We're all gonna need help, we all are, and we're
Speaker 2: all going to be in a position to give help.
Speaker 2: And so if we just stay present and open enough
Speaker 2: to see where we are on the seesaw and tune
Speaker 2: in and engage in life. I think I spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time hiding in my life, and so now
Speaker 2: I just always want to be the loving act for
Speaker 2: myself is to engage with all the positivity I can,
Speaker 2: because we are also capable of making good change in
Speaker 2: this world if we feel safe enough to do so.
Speaker 1: I love that when you think about all of this,
Speaker 1: you know how all these elements and passions and beliefs
Speaker 1: kind of add up into the work you do. And really,
Speaker 1: I think into the person you are in the world
Speaker 1: and you look kind of out at the horizon line,
Speaker 1: whatever is ad for you for us? Is there something
Speaker 1: that pops up that you go that's my work in
Speaker 1: progress or is it kind of continuing to figure out
Speaker 1: how to hold the whole thing?
Speaker 2: I think my work in progress is showing up, honestly.
Speaker 2: I yeah, like getting through the stuff from my childhood,
Speaker 2: getting through the people, pleasing, getting through the may I
Speaker 2: add very happy years of spending all my time pretending
Speaker 2: to be someone else, which was you know, on screen
Speaker 2: and off and then you know, COVID happened, the industry changed,
Speaker 2: like there's been some years of nowhere to hide, and
Speaker 2: lots happened in my personal life during that time. And mhm,
Speaker 2: through the work on myself and by being scrupulous about
Speaker 2: who I surround myself with, I just try and what
Speaker 2: I surround what I feel my day with. Right, Like
Speaker 2: I love to work hard. I love to work hard.
Speaker 2: It makes me really happy, it makes me feel engaged.
Speaker 2: I really love to work hard. But you have to
Speaker 2: like be sure that you're we have such a little
Speaker 2: time on this planet, and so you have to really
Speaker 2: be sure you're not chasing your tail, right, that what
Speaker 2: you're doing is in alignment with your heart, and you
Speaker 2: know with your why your soul came on this planet,
Speaker 2: whatever its mission might have been. Yeah, so you find
Speaker 2: those people that are safe to share your heart with
Speaker 2: than your truth. And this year has just afforded me
Speaker 2: the opportunity to decide whether or not to share that
Speaker 2: more broadly, Like I wrote a little article about my
Speaker 2: mom and all she went through and did the podcast
Speaker 2: and Hani wrote why a sci fi like the first
Speaker 2: novel on a trilogy with my dear friend Fay. We're
Speaker 2: gonna put it out dream Oh my god, we had
Speaker 2: so much fun. Speel oh my, we just had the
Speaker 2: best time. So the Ethery and Code Book one, the
Speaker 2: Spark look for it. But so it's been really fun
Speaker 2: to uh just yeah, just meet each moment in a
Speaker 2: much more honest way. And that's still that will still
Speaker 2: make me stutter sometimes. I used to really stutter when
Speaker 2: I was being honest because it was just too scary.
Speaker 2: Is how like singing helped? Because singing is such an
Speaker 2: honest gift you give either yourself or if someone might
Speaker 2: be listening. But it helps get you on your breath
Speaker 2: and in your body. And that I still stutter if
Speaker 2: i'm That's how I can tell I'm not in a
Speaker 2: safe situation. Yes, it's when I when I am giving
Speaker 2: my truth and it starts to flutter me, I think, Ohney,
Speaker 2: maybe it's throttled down, throttle down. Maybe this is in
Speaker 2: the place or the time, But so yeah, I think
Speaker 2: I think showing up honestly in my life is my
Speaker 2: uh is my continued work in progress, and who knows
Speaker 2: where that'll go? Who knows?
Speaker 1: That's beautiful, I think, especially when the sort of gift
Speaker 1: in the curse of this beautiful job is that you
Speaker 1: get so good at performing and you're also always expected
Speaker 1: to be on and being a human in the world
Speaker 1: and wanting to go be in the world, wanting to
Speaker 1: go walk through Manhattan means you probably have to perform
Speaker 1: for people even on your day off, and it can
Speaker 1: be so hard to learn how to just be yourself
Speaker 1: when you're not on. And I think you know when
Speaker 1: you said at the top of the hour, you were
Speaker 1: talking about how it's a lifelong journey. You know, the
Speaker 1: distance and the healing and the reclaiming all those parts
Speaker 1: of yourself. That's one of the things I'm trying to
Speaker 1: reclaim is like, who am I when I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to make someone else's day? Because that's such a gift.
Speaker 1: But it's also a gift I have to give away
Speaker 1: every time and when was the last time I gave
Speaker 1: it to me? And I'm working on it.
Speaker 2: Baby steps, baby steps and often awareness, right, that'll elan
Speaker 2: on edge awareness, successions action, right.
Speaker 1: Yep, that's it. Oh my goodness, You're just such a joy.
Speaker 1: Thank you for this. I'm like, I want to talk
Speaker 1: about a thousand more things with you, but not on
Speaker 1: a recording and over a bottle of wine.
Speaker 2: I like it. I'll take the tequila. But we're in.
Speaker 2: We're in great, I'm coming over. We're not far. I
Speaker 2: like it.