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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Daron, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: To the Book of Joe podcast with me, Tom Berducci,

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Speaker 1: and of course Joe Madden and Joe. I guess it's

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Speaker 1: that time of year, about almost a quarter of the

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Speaker 1: way through the season, and managers are taking the hit

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Speaker 1: and of all places, in Pittsburgh and in Colorado, two

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Speaker 1: teams that nobody expected to contend are saying we need

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Speaker 1: a new voice to try to win more games. Pittsburgh,

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Speaker 1: let Derek Shelton go. Colorado, let's Buddy Black go. After

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Speaker 1: a long time there successfully nine years with the Rockies,

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Speaker 1: starting with the first two making the playoffs. Your quick

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Speaker 1: takes Joe on, You've been there before. Managers getting the

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Speaker 1: pink slip in the course of the season never easy.

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Speaker 3: It's always a blow to your ego somewhat. And the

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Speaker 3: best way, if you can process it, is to not

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Speaker 3: take it personally and just as long as you can

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Speaker 3: answer the questions that you know you put your program

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Speaker 3: out there, you actually attacked the day in a way

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Speaker 3: that you felt good about. Now, both of these guys

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Speaker 3: are friends. I mean I Shelty was my hitting coach

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Speaker 3: with the Rays back in the two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 3: nine ten whatever in that area. And then Pepe buddy

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Speaker 3: Black and I was served together with the Angels. So

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Speaker 3: these guys are like good friends, and so I feel

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Speaker 3: for them. I feel for them, I feel for their families. However,

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Speaker 3: after saying all of that, I'm happy for them. I mean,

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Speaker 3: both situations got kind of difficult. It's more difficult to

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Speaker 3: imagine Colorado turning it around right now as compared to

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Speaker 3: what the Pirates maybe can't a bit. I don't see

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Speaker 3: them making that much noise for the rest of this year,

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Speaker 3: but we'll see. They have the pitching staff to get

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Speaker 3: a little bit fun. But you know, Pepe in Colorado

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Speaker 3: that was hard to watch. I mean, every day I

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Speaker 3: pick up the paper, I look at the record and

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Speaker 3: they were getting annihilated. Was just like losing. And I'm

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Speaker 3: thinking to myself, how do you go in that locker room?

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Speaker 3: And people have asked me that, and I've given different answers,

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Speaker 3: but it's not easy. It's not easy to do that.

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Speaker 3: You need total support from those people around you in

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Speaker 3: order to survive that moment and also to continue to

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Speaker 3: believe in you. That's part of it. And realize in

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Speaker 3: both situations you look at the manager taking the hit

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Speaker 3: for it, but understand that it's not you want to

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Speaker 3: give them full responsibility for the lack of success, and

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Speaker 3: don't do that. It's not true. There's a lot of

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Speaker 3: other culpable people involved. So in a perverse way, I'm happy,

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Speaker 3: especially for Buddy Black where Derek is younger and he's

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Speaker 3: really trying to get a strong stronghold on being a

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Speaker 3: major league manager. I think he might get another opportunity.

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Speaker 3: But both situations were really difficult to watch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, both have real systemic problems in the organization that

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Speaker 1: we really have nothing to do with the manager. We

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Speaker 1: knew going into this year, Joe, you mentioned the Pittsburgh

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Speaker 1: Pirates pitching.

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Speaker 2: It's good. I wouldn't. It's great.

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Speaker 1: It's not necessarily deep, but they have really good arms,

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Speaker 1: and we knew that they were way short offensively and

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Speaker 1: really almost nothing was done about that, and they they've

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Speaker 1: turned out to be even worse offensively than we thought.

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Speaker 1: That's not certainly on Derek Shelton. Apparently Derek Shelton was

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Speaker 1: on the last year of his deal and they have

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Speaker 1: Don Kelly there, you know who you know kind of

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Speaker 1: a Jim Leland disciple, I think is a great baseball

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Speaker 1: mine runs their spring training. He's a local kid from

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Speaker 1: a kid and a local guy from Mount Lebanon, and

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Speaker 1: I think they realized this guy was a talent right

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Speaker 1: and an ascending talent in terms of going to be

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Speaker 1: a manager someday, and they wanted it to happen there,

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Speaker 1: so they saw an opportunity. I like the hiring of

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Speaker 1: Don Kelly. I think he is a smart baseball guy.

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Speaker 1: I just don't like the situation there because they just

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Speaker 1: have not invested in the infrastructure to find more offense there.

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Speaker 1: They've I can't even say, Joe, They've tinkered on the

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Speaker 1: margins trying to find offense there. They basically went to

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Speaker 1: the season without first basement. Don't know how you actually

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Speaker 1: do that. They looked into Anthony Rizzo and passed on that.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole lot of things they could have done

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Speaker 1: to help this team. I'm not saying going out there

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Speaker 1: and get Pete Alonzo, but when you're the Pittsburgh Pirates,

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Speaker 1: you have to understand you have Paul Skins, a trend,

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Speaker 1: you know, transcending generational type pitching talent. You know, a

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Speaker 1: Steven Strasburg type arm and the clock is already ticking

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Speaker 1: as to when he leaves the Pittsburgh Pirates. Similar to

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Speaker 1: Garrett Cole, You've got to take advantage of this narrow

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Speaker 1: window here. One thing I always say, Joe, these teams

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Speaker 1: Colorado and Pittsburgh and the like, stop talking to me

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Speaker 1: about trying to build a sustainable winner. You are not

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Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Dodgers. You don't have the resources to

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Speaker 1: have a quote unquote sustainable winner.

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Speaker 2: That's just execut you speak there.

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Speaker 1: Try to find a core group when you've got someone

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Speaker 1: like Skins to build around you knows, send in a

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Speaker 1: two to four year window around a cor young players

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Speaker 1: before they get too expensive and have to move on,

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Speaker 1: and then try to keep the down cycles as short

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Speaker 1: as possible with the next group behind them. But you're

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Speaker 1: not going to build a sustainable winner in places like

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh and Colorado.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and just backtracking just a bit on what you

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Speaker 3: were talking about the first basement situation. I mean, we've

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Speaker 3: talked about that earlier in the year. It's getting to

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Speaker 3: the point where analytics believes you could put anybody at

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Speaker 3: first base. I really believe that, and I think for

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Speaker 3: their perspective. They bought into that theory also, so I

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Speaker 3: think that's part of the reason why they just thought, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: we'll find somebody that can hit a little bit there,

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Speaker 3: catch the ball a little bit there, but we're not

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Speaker 3: going to pay for that particular service. Yeah, I listen.

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Speaker 3: It's they can't compete Dodgers on a bunch of different levels,

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Speaker 3: right from the very top with Andrew and the kind

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Speaker 3: of dough that they do have. You know, I may

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Speaker 3: be naive with all this, but I'm rooted in the

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Speaker 3: research and development component of our game. I mean, for me,

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Speaker 3: in a place like Pittsburgh is all about research and development.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I would put so much emphasis on my

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Speaker 3: minor league system, my scouting system, and getting and building

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Speaker 3: this group from within that's going to permeate and continually

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Speaker 3: be able to supplant or replace people that, like you're

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Speaker 3: talking about, may leave in several years. And then with that,

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Speaker 3: that's when you more judiciously ring in that free agent

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Speaker 3: and again by a couple of middle class guys. Just

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Speaker 3: get a couple of the middle class in there, that

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Speaker 3: salary range where it's a little bit uncomfortable maybe, but

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Speaker 3: knows how to play baseball can influence the rest of

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Speaker 3: your team in a way that's going to be beneficial

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Speaker 3: down the road. So I still believe in that method.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look at the Rays. I think that's what

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Speaker 3: the Race kind of do all the time. I think

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Speaker 3: Milwaukee's kind of in that group right now. Both are

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Speaker 3: relatively successful, And again, what is success for a lot

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Speaker 3: of these groups anymore? That's the part that's really confusing.

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Speaker 3: Being successful. You talked about sustainable, but that's probably they're

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Speaker 3: just trying to be five hundred on an annual basis.

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Speaker 3: What is sustainable for me? It's like every year I

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Speaker 3: would go to Springteter I mean every year, maybe maybe

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Speaker 3: not my first year with the Race, but maybe not

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Speaker 3: quite the second. But I always talk about the playoffs

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Speaker 3: and then I will talk about the World Series in

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Speaker 3: the same breath. I don't think they really believe that stuff.

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Speaker 3: And if you did believe it and not just give

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Speaker 3: it lip service, what do you do then to be

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Speaker 3: a participant at the end of the year, being part

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Speaker 3: of the dance, being part of the tournament, whatever you

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Speaker 3: want to say? So I listen to me. I love

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Speaker 3: the concept of building from the bottom up. I love

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Speaker 3: the minor leagues, and I love scouting. I without being there,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, what they think of it

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Speaker 3: and and how they're really applying the tenants of baseball

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Speaker 3: to their developmental process. But places like that have to

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Speaker 3: not kind of they have to be fully immersed in that.

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Speaker 3: And and I don't I don't know how much they are.

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Speaker 3: You know better than I do, because you know you

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Speaker 3: got your figure on the pulse a bit better than I.

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Speaker 3: But I my Pittsburgh in those places, I got to

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Speaker 3: start right there.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you one hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: And that's why we need to talk about the Rockies now,

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Speaker 1: because let's start with this. This is sort of a

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Speaker 1: disclaimer you have to give them. I think it's tougher

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Speaker 1: to win in Colorado than any other place. Right when

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Speaker 1: you're playing at altitude, it's just abnormal baseball. So you

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Speaker 1: have to start with the fact that they're playing uphill

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Speaker 1: from the start, pitches just don't move as much. The

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Speaker 1: recovery on the physical taxing on the body is just

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Speaker 1: is something that other teams and players do not have

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Speaker 1: to face.

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Speaker 2: So start with that.

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Speaker 1: With that mind, then you should have the biggest most

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Speaker 1: robust analytics department a player development apartment in all of baseball.

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Speaker 2: They don't. They have one of the smallest analytical departments.

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Speaker 1: They don't have a scout in the Far East where

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Speaker 1: you should be getting players and at least being in

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Speaker 1: that market, which they are not. You know, to me, Joe,

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Speaker 1: you have to build that team around freakish athletes with

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Speaker 1: strength just to survive at altitude, right. And if you

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Speaker 1: wanted to go out there and buy players in the market,

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Speaker 1: like Chris Bryant, that's a mistake because you're banking that

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Speaker 1: players who made their their money and their their reputation

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Speaker 1: at sea level, that there's a lack of predictability in

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Speaker 1: their numbers once they go and play in Colorado. And

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Speaker 1: it's not just you know, batting average, home runs RBIs.

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Speaker 1: It's how they hold up in the grind of a season,

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Speaker 1: especially for pitchers. So that's why it's more important than

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Speaker 1: ever that you develop a certain type of player. And

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Speaker 1: I'll go back to what Jim Leland said about coors Field.

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Speaker 1: They built the wrong ballpark there. They built it too

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Speaker 1: darn big. There's too much space in the outfield.

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Speaker 3: He said.

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Speaker 1: They should have built another Fenway Park with small fences

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Speaker 1: and large walls. Because there's too many hits that have

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Speaker 1: fall on like gigantic outfield. Nobody ever gets thrown out

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Speaker 1: on the bases. You can walk from second to home

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Speaker 1: on any kind of a base hit, and that works

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Speaker 1: against the Rockies as well. So you have to populate

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Speaker 1: that roster which is freakish athletes who can cover ground,

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Speaker 1: hold up to the grind of a season, and then

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Speaker 1: you had the whole seesaw effect of going back between

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Speaker 1: home and the road because the balls are moving completely

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Speaker 1: differently back and forth through the course of a twenty

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Speaker 1: six week season. So that's why building from within is

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Speaker 1: even more important than ever for the Rockies.

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Speaker 3: Tommy, I cannot disagree with anything you said. That's a

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Speaker 3: great recap. I think all the points that you made,

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Speaker 3: and when you talked about Jimmy Leland's definition of that ballpark,

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Speaker 3: immediately I thought about the Dudley Dome in El Paso.

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Speaker 3: I managed in Midland, Texas, and the Deadly Dome was

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Speaker 3: kind of like that. The Deadly Dome, which was almost

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Speaker 3: on the Mexican border, was short left field and was

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Speaker 3: almost like a square or rectangle, and there was the

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Speaker 3: outfield wall did not bow out. It was straight across

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Speaker 3: straight across from the left field line to the center

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Speaker 3: field area, and man, the ball would just it would fly.

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Speaker 3: It flies in El Paso like would fly in Colorado,

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Speaker 3: and it was a really difficult ballpark to manage it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, as a manager in that ballpark, I always said,

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Speaker 3: you just try to get your team in position to

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Speaker 3: kick the last field goal. The same was in Midland. Midland,

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Speaker 3: Texas are the same way. At that time was a

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Speaker 3: one tier wall. They eventually built it up into a

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Speaker 3: higher Fenway like wall. For my first year, first two

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Speaker 3: years there, I think the wall was not high. So

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Speaker 3: pop ups are going out of the ballpark. Is really managerially,

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you, man, it's very difficult to be strategic.

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Speaker 3: It just is because you could do all the right

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Speaker 3: things and a guy could get jammed and the balls

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Speaker 3: popped up and all of a sudden, the wind blows

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Speaker 3: it and it's gone out of the ballpark. So it is.

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Speaker 3: My point is it is a tough place to play

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Speaker 3: and to really I'm just talking from the managerial seat.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to be consistent with your approach because what

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Speaker 3: you believe is going to work a lot of times

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Speaker 3: maybe could have worked, but the elements really do conspire

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Speaker 3: against you, and that's just that that ballpark and then

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Speaker 3: you so brought up and I totally believe this. When

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Speaker 3: you go on the road, you get used to playing

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Speaker 3: one kind of game at that ballpark, and all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, you go to sea level teams was Shreveporto, Tulsa,

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Speaker 3: or Beaumont. Beaumont was a double deck ballpark with the

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Speaker 3: and the ball didn't carry in. The mosquitoes were like

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Speaker 3: little Cessana's flying in out there were so big. So

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Speaker 3: you go to those ballparks and the ball didn't go.

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Speaker 3: So you've been teaching yourself at home to try to

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Speaker 3: get the ball in their lift the ball whatever. Then

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Speaker 3: you go on the road and play these ballparks and

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Speaker 3: if you tick that same approach there, out you're out.

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Speaker 3: You're out. The ball's not going anywhere. You're out. So

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Speaker 3: you have to play two completely different kind of games.

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Speaker 3: And that's that's not just that's not fantasy, that's reality.

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Speaker 3: So again, you're right, I mean, build your whatever these

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Speaker 3: athletes are, whatever you want them to look like, whatever

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Speaker 3: kind of game you're gonna play, step outside of the box.

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Speaker 3: You can't think the way the Dodgers think you can't

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Speaker 3: think the way any Sea level team thinks. You just can't.

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Speaker 3: You can't. It's a dip. I actually played in Boulder

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Speaker 3: for two summers in Boulder, Colorado, right up the street.

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Speaker 3: It should be a destination place if you set this

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Speaker 3: up right, we're talking about like far East. I believe

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Speaker 3: that they don't even go there because they think they

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Speaker 3: don't have a chance to lure anybody to come to

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Speaker 3: play in Colorado. I would bet that's part of the conversation,

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Speaker 3: no question. But you've got to get beyond these walls

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Speaker 3: that you're building and understand and whatever you believe is

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Speaker 3: right to do this and win, to hear, do that,

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Speaker 3: attack that, stay away from the way everybody else is thinking,

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Speaker 3: because your situation is that unique.

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Speaker 1: I actually think Joe the Rockies go too far in

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Speaker 1: terms of not doing what other teams do. I think

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Speaker 1: it's the most insular organization in baseball.

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Speaker 2: You know, Bill Schmid, the GM that has been there forever.

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Speaker 1: Chris Forbes, the player development guy, has been there forever.

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Speaker 1: Warren Shaefer, who was just named the manager to replace

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Speaker 1: Buddy Black, has been there nineteen years. He's been with

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Speaker 1: no other organization as a player minor league manager or

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Speaker 1: major league coach need to go find the brightest minds

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Speaker 1: out there, whether it's the Yankees, the Rays, the Dodgers,

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Speaker 1: the Guardians, and find out what they don't know. You know,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that smart people really

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Speaker 1: do is admit what they don't know, and they don't

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Speaker 1: have to be the smartest person in the room. They

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Speaker 1: compliment their own intelligence with people who can kind of

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Speaker 1: complete the circle. And I don't think the Rockies do that.

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Speaker 1: I think they really need to expand their horizons. Doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you're copying anybody else, but asking the question, what

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Speaker 1: do other teams know about winning on the margins that

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Speaker 1: we don't know. I don't know that the Rockies stand

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Speaker 1: for anything, Joe, I really don't know if they have

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Speaker 1: a philosophy.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: Bill Schmidt said, you know, guys are playing hard. First

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Speaker 1: of all, Playing hard to me is not a compliment.

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Speaker 1: That's a bare minimum for a professional athlete. And he said,

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Speaker 1: guys like the direction that we're going. Really, you're the

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Speaker 1: worst organization in baseball for the last seven years. You're

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Speaker 1: coming off the last two seasons have been the worst

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Speaker 1: years in Rockies franchise history. You're heading towards probably the

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Speaker 1: worst ever, maybe worse than White Sox last year, and

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Speaker 1: you like the direction.

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Speaker 2: The team is going. Don't give me that.

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Speaker 1: You've got to really have a complete mindset change here

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Speaker 1: going forward.

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Speaker 2: You are not going in the right direction.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to be very very honest about it.

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Speaker 3: I mean your explanation also, again is very good. I

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Speaker 3: wasn't looking at it from that perspective regarding going outside

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Speaker 3: the box or being insular at the same time. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I was just really talking about the way they're like

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Speaker 3: you're talking about the way they're going to play the game.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, they need to stretch their minds there a

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Speaker 3: little bit too, to be that disingenuous to consider or

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Speaker 3: try to portray the fact that we are headed in

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Speaker 3: the right direction. We like what's going on out there?

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Speaker 3: How do you say that with a straight face, Because

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Speaker 3: it's not just this year. This year, it's even more exaggerated.

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Speaker 3: But this has been going on for a bit. I

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Speaker 3: know some of those guys you're talking about there, and

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Speaker 3: of course, like we talked about bod he's gone. But

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Speaker 3: there's really a moment of reckoning there and it always

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Speaker 3: starts at the top it always does. Ownership then comes

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Speaker 3: on down and I don't know the man in charge there,

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Speaker 3: but that really needs to be considered exactly what they're

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Speaker 3: saying to the rest of the group, what they believe in,

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Speaker 3: and they're the ones who could have to elicit the change.

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Speaker 3: You talk about people, gms, whatever, managers, But it's always

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Speaker 3: going to start at the top on what's permitted from there,

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Speaker 3: So the moment of reckoning has to start there and

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Speaker 3: then filter on down to the rest. And it's got

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Speaker 3: to be an open, honest approach, and everybody's got to

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Speaker 3: be culpable, and everybody's got to listen to, like you said,

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Speaker 3: different thoughts and ideas in order to fix this thing.

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Speaker 3: Because this thing, I mean, I'm into like the quick

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Speaker 3: fixed kind of stuff, but this is going to take

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Speaker 3: a bit based on because I'm not seeing guys playing hard.

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Speaker 3: I've been watching him intentionally and I see a lot

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Speaker 3: of like really non competitive at bats. I see some

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Speaker 3: horrible defense. I see a lot of bad things there.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not seeing what Billy talked about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, listen, it's it's e You're right, it's

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Speaker 1: not going to be a quick fix.

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Speaker 2: There's no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: There needs to be changed, And listen, I love Buddy

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Speaker 1: as much as you do, but I understand why it

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Speaker 1: change is made, and you're probably right. They probably did

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Speaker 1: him a favor by letting him go. But something else

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Speaker 1: is going on in baseball. When I look at the Rockies, Joe,

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Speaker 1: in the first fifty years of the one hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty two game schedule, there were seven teams that lost

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Speaker 1: one hundred and ten games. I'm pretty sure the Rockies

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Speaker 1: are going to lose one hundred and ten this year.

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Speaker 1: They will become the eighth team in the last twelve

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Speaker 1: years to lose one hundred and ten games. So seven

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Speaker 1: teams in the first fifty years and now more than

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Speaker 1: that in just the last twelve thirteen seasons. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure what it is, but the bottom is getting worse

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Speaker 1: in baseball. You know, not everybody is just rebuilding and

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Speaker 1: you know, stripping things down the way the Astros bit

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Speaker 1: did back in twenty thirteen. But it's not a good

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Speaker 1: look for baseball to have non competitive teams because last year,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Seattle Mariners looked at the schedule and said,

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Speaker 1: we lost the playoffs because the AL Central was beating

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Speaker 1: up on the White Sox, and I'm telling you the

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Speaker 1: same thing is going to happen this year. The National

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Speaker 1: League West teams are absolutely going to destroy the Colorado Rockies.

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Speaker 1: They're eleven and two so far, and if you lose

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Speaker 1: a game to the Rockies, you feel like you're losing,

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Speaker 1: you know, losing ground in your division, and probably there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a playoff spot decided the National League

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Speaker 1: because somebody had more games against the Rockies and took

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Speaker 1: advantage of them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I've been part of that too. The

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Speaker 3: NL Central couple years ago with the Cubs in Cincinnati

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Speaker 3: was awful and we did we you did beat up

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Speaker 3: on them. And when there are teams like that, you,

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Speaker 3: like you said, if you lose to them, it's almost

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Speaker 3: like it's almost kind of like the end of the

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Speaker 3: world for a moment. It just it just shouldn't happen,

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Speaker 3: you believe that. So, yes, all those tremendous imbalances within

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Speaker 3: divisions could really create an advantage. And like you said,

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Speaker 3: do not permit a team maybe that's more worthy to

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Speaker 3: get to the playoffs only because their schedule wasn't as advantageous.

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Speaker 3: I would, you know, I'm just talking about this now

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Speaker 3: for me, this is my personal way of doing things.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to be able to just be like a

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Speaker 3: fly on the wall, not a guy in the stands

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Speaker 3: for at least a week, two weeks to watch a

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Speaker 3: team in order to tell you exactly what I think.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this is all perception based on I watch videos,

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Speaker 3: I watch the games on TV a little bit, and

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Speaker 3: I know people and I read. But there's nothing like

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Speaker 3: being in the stands and really observing all this stuff.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm an eyeball guy, and I still believe

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Speaker 3: in the eyeballs, and I believe if you train dryballs

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Speaker 3: to see things and you've had some experience that it

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Speaker 3: could really be beneficial. So we've talked about a lot

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Speaker 3: of different reasons why this one hundred and ten lost

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Speaker 3: thing is really disturbing and really falls under the category

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Speaker 3: what's in the best interest of the game, which used

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Speaker 3: to be really applied often back in the day. When

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Speaker 3: I first heard that, when was it Bully hw and

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Speaker 3: Kelly right? I mean, the fact that did not permit

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Speaker 3: a trade or whatever because it was not in the

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Speaker 3: best interest of the game. I would love to see

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Speaker 3: that phrase being brought back and implemented and enforced because

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Speaker 3: when you're a fan of these teams, I'm watching like

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Speaker 3: I watched videos and you see actually like people walking

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Speaker 3: in the gates and they probably show like the small

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Speaker 3: gaggle that walks in. You have to answer to this

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Speaker 3: group of people that are spending money and whatever in

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Speaker 3: their every year. They you know, the hope of at

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Speaker 3: least competing, which I still hate that just at least

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Speaker 3: competing phrase. But there's got to be some kind of

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Speaker 3: edict from the top that it's got to be more

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Speaker 3: than just showing up and collecting whatever. There's got to

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Speaker 3: be something done in the best interest of the game,

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Speaker 3: because it's not. You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: One last note on the Rocky is speaking of eyeballs,

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Speaker 1: You got to give those fans credit. Man. It's still,

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Speaker 1: you know, an attraction for people in Denver to go

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Speaker 1: out to Coors Field and watch a baseball game. It's

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Speaker 1: a great venue, great plays to watch a game. You know,

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Speaker 1: as bad as they've been, Joe, they still have a

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Speaker 1: really loyal fan base. And last year, for instance, losing

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Speaker 1: more than one hundred games, they outdrew half of the

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Speaker 1: playoff teams, including the Mets and the Orioles. So Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are tendances down fifteen percent since pre COVID levels,

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Speaker 1: but it's not like it's really cratered. So I got

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Speaker 1: to give those fans credit, and you know, maybe the

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Speaker 1: Rockies for their ballpark experience that it's still a destination

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Speaker 1: for people to go. You know, as pure baseball fans,

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Speaker 1: they should be demanding more though in terms of competitiveness. Hey,

431
00:21:22,438 --> 00:21:24,238
Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break on the Book

432
00:21:24,278 --> 00:21:27,198
Speaker 1: of Joe. We get back Joe. I want to talk

433
00:21:27,198 --> 00:21:30,478
Speaker 1: about the Hall of Fame, but not the Baseball Hall

434
00:21:30,518 --> 00:21:45,478
Speaker 1: of Fame. To do that right after this, Welcome back

435
00:21:45,518 --> 00:21:47,238
Speaker 1: to the Book of Joe. This is one of our

436
00:21:47,238 --> 00:21:49,678
Speaker 1: favorite topics, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

437
00:21:49,878 --> 00:21:50,918
Speaker 3: Sure you're going to go there.

438
00:21:51,398 --> 00:21:52,998
Speaker 2: Did you see the inductees?

439
00:21:53,598 --> 00:21:55,958
Speaker 3: I did not. I'm sorry. How about on.

440
00:21:55,998 --> 00:22:00,478
Speaker 1: The first ballot Chubby Checker he's in. I can't believe

441
00:22:00,518 --> 00:22:03,638
Speaker 1: he wasn't in before. He's eighty three years old and

442
00:22:03,678 --> 00:22:04,998
Speaker 1: he's still touring.

443
00:22:05,078 --> 00:22:07,238
Speaker 3: Joe, I love that. I remember the Twist when it

444
00:22:07,318 --> 00:22:09,198
Speaker 3: came out. We all had to do the twist and

445
00:22:09,238 --> 00:22:12,558
Speaker 3: it became the Peppermint Twist eventually, and it was such

446
00:22:12,598 --> 00:22:16,518
Speaker 3: a such a thing back in that day, and and

447
00:22:16,558 --> 00:22:19,158
Speaker 3: the tight suit with the thin tie and all that stuff.

448
00:22:19,518 --> 00:22:22,598
Speaker 3: It was so great, It was so cool and it

449
00:22:22,638 --> 00:22:24,638
Speaker 3: was wonderful. Was I remember that I was at Our

450
00:22:24,678 --> 00:22:26,358
Speaker 3: Lady of Grace at that time when I think it

451
00:22:26,478 --> 00:22:27,678
Speaker 3: all broke, and it was wonderful.

452
00:22:27,918 --> 00:22:31,398
Speaker 1: And also on the first ballot they were voted in.

453
00:22:31,958 --> 00:22:34,918
Speaker 1: I'm happy about this one. Bad Company. Yeah, you got

454
00:22:35,038 --> 00:22:37,918
Speaker 1: to like that job. I mean, that's classic guitar riffs,

455
00:22:38,598 --> 00:22:41,238
Speaker 1: you know, put the windows down, put the stereo up.

456
00:22:41,358 --> 00:22:43,198
Speaker 3: I just did that yesterday. I mean I didn't have

457
00:22:43,238 --> 00:22:45,598
Speaker 3: Bad Company on, but I got this really great system

458
00:22:45,758 --> 00:22:48,238
Speaker 3: in my room over here to the left, and I

459
00:22:48,278 --> 00:22:49,838
Speaker 3: was I stretched in the morning. I got this great

460
00:22:49,838 --> 00:22:52,198
Speaker 3: carpet to stretch on, and I put some albums on.

461
00:22:52,318 --> 00:22:56,478
Speaker 3: I got these big old Sirwin Vega nineteen eighty speakers

462
00:22:56,518 --> 00:22:59,958
Speaker 3: and a nice Yamaha Yamaha amp and I did put

463
00:22:59,998 --> 00:23:03,518
Speaker 3: on Springsteen. I put Asbury Park and I also put

464
00:23:03,518 --> 00:23:07,678
Speaker 3: on Pink Floyd Real Loud, real loud. It was outstanding.

465
00:23:07,998 --> 00:23:11,118
Speaker 3: I put one more and I can't remember, Oh, roberta

466
00:23:11,158 --> 00:23:13,118
Speaker 3: flat the first time ever saw your face on this

467
00:23:13,198 --> 00:23:16,158
Speaker 3: brand new album. First it was a pink album, but

468
00:23:16,638 --> 00:23:18,158
Speaker 3: it was brand new, was right out of the container,

469
00:23:18,198 --> 00:23:22,358
Speaker 3: out of the the album cover. It was so clear.

470
00:23:22,638 --> 00:23:25,278
Speaker 3: I could not you forget. Sometimes you put on these

471
00:23:25,278 --> 00:23:28,398
Speaker 3: other albums that slightly used, you get that little scratch

472
00:23:28,438 --> 00:23:30,758
Speaker 3: as it comes on, like with the Spring Seen album.

473
00:23:30,758 --> 00:23:32,678
Speaker 3: I got that little scratch, scratch scratch, and then eventually

474
00:23:32,678 --> 00:23:35,998
Speaker 3: here it comes Bruce. But the roberta Flac first time

475
00:23:35,998 --> 00:23:40,118
Speaker 3: ever on a Pink album, never been played before. Wow,

476
00:23:40,438 --> 00:23:43,678
Speaker 3: this sound was incredible. So that's the part of the past.

477
00:23:43,718 --> 00:23:45,358
Speaker 3: And I had to get up up the floor, changed

478
00:23:45,398 --> 00:23:47,798
Speaker 3: the album, turned it over. H oh the other Who

479
00:23:47,798 --> 00:23:49,638
Speaker 3: I put the Who on? Also, Yes, it was but

480
00:23:49,758 --> 00:23:51,718
Speaker 3: real lout, real out, because I'm in a spot, it

481
00:23:51,758 --> 00:23:54,398
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, nobody's gonna hear me. And it was great.

482
00:23:54,558 --> 00:23:56,758
Speaker 3: I wanted to get pumped up for the day and

483
00:23:56,798 --> 00:23:57,758
Speaker 3: I did well.

484
00:23:57,798 --> 00:24:01,838
Speaker 1: Done better than coffee. You're almost as good as coffee.

485
00:24:01,958 --> 00:24:07,558
Speaker 1: And also in the category of musical influencer, Warren Zevon.

486
00:24:08,358 --> 00:24:10,478
Speaker 1: Now a lot of people think, oh were walls of

487
00:24:10,558 --> 00:24:13,518
Speaker 1: London right Warren Zevon, Man, he was so much more

488
00:24:13,598 --> 00:24:16,678
Speaker 1: than that. One of the great singers, songwriters, and I

489
00:24:16,718 --> 00:24:19,518
Speaker 1: know Joe this this goes back to a sweet spot

490
00:24:19,558 --> 00:24:22,758
Speaker 1: for you talking about southern California, the LA scene there

491
00:24:22,758 --> 00:24:24,038
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies.

492
00:24:24,958 --> 00:24:25,318
Speaker 2: Get this.

493
00:24:25,398 --> 00:24:29,478
Speaker 1: On his first album, he had Jackson Brown, Steven Nicks,

494
00:24:29,638 --> 00:24:35,398
Speaker 1: Lindsay Buckingham, Don Henley, Glent Fry, Linda Ronstadt, Bonnie Raitt,

495
00:24:36,318 --> 00:24:40,958
Speaker 1: Phil Everley, and Carl Wilson. Come on, I mean, that's

496
00:24:40,998 --> 00:24:43,998
Speaker 1: an all star team. He was just connected to so

497
00:24:44,158 --> 00:24:46,438
Speaker 1: many people, so many people wanted to be around Warren

498
00:24:46,518 --> 00:24:48,958
Speaker 1: zevonn He was such a talent. Probably one of your

499
00:24:48,998 --> 00:24:50,798
Speaker 1: favorite songs, Poor Poor Pitiful Me.

500
00:24:50,918 --> 00:24:54,118
Speaker 2: That was his song. Yeah, he wrote a ton of

501
00:24:54,158 --> 00:24:55,398
Speaker 2: songs for Linda Ronstad.

502
00:24:55,598 --> 00:24:57,518
Speaker 3: You just just I'm just that's the name. When you

503
00:24:57,558 --> 00:25:00,318
Speaker 3: mentioned all that, folks, I got admit. I've always had

504
00:25:00,318 --> 00:25:03,158
Speaker 3: a crush on this woman and still do. I know

505
00:25:03,558 --> 00:25:06,718
Speaker 3: she's in the Parkinson situation now, but to me, she

506
00:25:06,918 --> 00:25:11,038
Speaker 3: was the voice of that particular generation. To this day,

507
00:25:11,118 --> 00:25:14,678
Speaker 3: she comes on to radio. I listened to Serious Letter, Pandora,

508
00:25:14,998 --> 00:25:17,718
Speaker 3: or I'll put her station on. She stops me every time,

509
00:25:18,158 --> 00:25:22,038
Speaker 3: her range, her attitude. You know, growing up in Tucson.

510
00:25:22,158 --> 00:25:27,678
Speaker 3: She conciones Papa, which pasre papa, the song Mexican songs

511
00:25:27,718 --> 00:25:30,358
Speaker 3: that she did a long long time. I mean I listen.

512
00:25:30,438 --> 00:25:32,718
Speaker 3: I could listen to this woman all day launch her voice,

513
00:25:32,798 --> 00:25:36,198
Speaker 3: I mean, from her to Lady Gaga. For me, she

514
00:25:36,398 --> 00:25:39,238
Speaker 3: was the best. She did it the best. She was

515
00:25:39,758 --> 00:25:42,918
Speaker 3: this little person with I mean, for me, one of

516
00:25:42,918 --> 00:25:44,758
Speaker 3: the best voices I've ever heard. When I got to

517
00:25:44,758 --> 00:25:46,998
Speaker 3: the Angels, how about this is all naive? I am,

518
00:25:47,558 --> 00:25:50,798
Speaker 3: this is my second time through. She's from Tucson, right,

519
00:25:50,838 --> 00:25:54,158
Speaker 3: so I ARTI Raino's from Tucson. So I get the

520
00:25:54,238 --> 00:25:57,078
Speaker 3: spring training in twenty twenty whatever it was, and I say, hey,

521
00:25:57,478 --> 00:25:59,598
Speaker 3: do you happen to know Linda Ronstad? Saying that you're

522
00:25:59,638 --> 00:26:01,638
Speaker 3: both from Tucson. He just looked at me, like, what

523
00:26:01,638 --> 00:26:03,718
Speaker 3: are you nuts? Because I was hoping that he could

524
00:26:03,718 --> 00:26:05,798
Speaker 3: set up and arrange where I could meet Linda Ronstad

525
00:26:05,878 --> 00:26:07,998
Speaker 3: or africame to a game. I didn't realize to what

526
00:26:08,038 --> 00:26:09,798
Speaker 3: extent she was ill enough that she couldn't do that,

527
00:26:09,838 --> 00:26:13,278
Speaker 3: But I was that much impressed that I've always wanted

528
00:26:13,318 --> 00:26:16,238
Speaker 3: to meet her because to me, she's where it begins

529
00:26:16,238 --> 00:26:18,158
Speaker 3: and ends for female vocalists.

530
00:26:18,478 --> 00:26:20,358
Speaker 2: Yeah, just a beautiful voice.

531
00:26:21,478 --> 00:26:24,438
Speaker 1: Warren Zevon, by the way, he was born in Chicago

532
00:26:26,038 --> 00:26:28,158
Speaker 1: and then he went to LA and he dropped out

533
00:26:28,158 --> 00:26:29,678
Speaker 1: of high school to go to New York to try

534
00:26:29,678 --> 00:26:32,158
Speaker 1: to make it as a singer songwriter. As a kid,

535
00:26:32,198 --> 00:26:36,318
Speaker 1: he studied piano under igor Stravinsky. How's that for training,

536
00:26:36,718 --> 00:26:39,398
Speaker 1: So he didn't really pan out. Things didn't pan out

537
00:26:39,398 --> 00:26:41,038
Speaker 1: in New York so much so that's when he went

538
00:26:41,038 --> 00:26:43,878
Speaker 1: back to LA and he roomed with Stevie Nicks and

539
00:26:43,918 --> 00:26:44,878
Speaker 1: Lindsay Buckingham.

540
00:26:45,118 --> 00:26:47,118
Speaker 2: That's how this started that arrangement there.

541
00:26:48,038 --> 00:26:51,918
Speaker 1: But I'm always a fan, Joe of great musicianship and

542
00:26:52,238 --> 00:26:56,918
Speaker 1: especially great writing. You know those singer songwriters. I mean

543
00:26:57,238 --> 00:26:59,998
Speaker 1: it almost sounds archaic just that phrase, like who is

544
00:26:59,998 --> 00:27:00,998
Speaker 1: a singer songwriter?

545
00:27:01,118 --> 00:27:01,318
Speaker 3: Now?

546
00:27:01,438 --> 00:27:03,998
Speaker 1: And people are gonna tell me yea, they know this guy,

547
00:27:04,038 --> 00:27:05,438
Speaker 1: that guy, this person, this woman.

548
00:27:05,918 --> 00:27:06,518
Speaker 2: I'm sure.

549
00:27:07,118 --> 00:27:09,878
Speaker 1: But back in the day, talking to seventies and eighties,

550
00:27:10,398 --> 00:27:14,638
Speaker 1: the world, the musical world was populated with singers songwriter geniuses.

551
00:27:15,198 --> 00:27:18,518
Speaker 1: And that really was Warren z more in Zevon. When

552
00:27:18,558 --> 00:27:20,958
Speaker 1: you go back and look at his work, I mean, lawyers,

553
00:27:20,998 --> 00:27:25,598
Speaker 1: guns and money, fantastic, excitable boy. I mean the opening

554
00:27:26,118 --> 00:27:29,198
Speaker 1: line of Where Rolls in London was chosen by people

555
00:27:29,198 --> 00:27:32,518
Speaker 1: in England as the best opening line of any song.

556
00:27:33,078 --> 00:27:36,078
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just amazing that the words he put

557
00:27:36,358 --> 00:27:38,798
Speaker 1: to paper and then to zong, coming from a.

558
00:27:38,798 --> 00:27:41,198
Speaker 3: Writer himself, I cannot agree with you more. I mean,

559
00:27:41,198 --> 00:27:45,678
Speaker 3: I've offered made these arguments. I started out even the Stones,

560
00:27:45,878 --> 00:27:47,958
Speaker 3: probably the first group that made an impression on me.

561
00:27:48,038 --> 00:27:51,158
Speaker 3: Can't get no satisfaction. And then of course the Beatles,

562
00:27:51,198 --> 00:27:53,638
Speaker 3: and then here came Simon and Garfunkel, who I still

563
00:27:53,678 --> 00:27:56,478
Speaker 3: to this day listened to almost I listened to them

564
00:27:56,518 --> 00:27:58,918
Speaker 3: as often as I watched Seinfeld. Pretty much. I'm not

565
00:27:59,038 --> 00:28:02,238
Speaker 3: always impressed with Simon and Garfunkel. Then you can move

566
00:28:02,278 --> 00:28:04,958
Speaker 3: it all the way through. Man brought up Jackson Brown,

567
00:28:04,998 --> 00:28:07,998
Speaker 3: you bring up the Crosby, Stills, and Nash loved all

568
00:28:08,078 --> 00:28:11,478
Speaker 3: these guys, the Almond Brothers. But it is, it's every

569
00:28:11,518 --> 00:28:13,278
Speaker 3: one of the groups. We can name them all. They

570
00:28:13,278 --> 00:28:17,558
Speaker 3: were all distinctively unique to their sound and their messaging.

571
00:28:18,678 --> 00:28:21,238
Speaker 3: That's what I think is missing today, because when I understand,

572
00:28:21,518 --> 00:28:23,438
Speaker 3: there's a small group of people writing most of the

573
00:28:23,478 --> 00:28:28,558
Speaker 3: songs today, both lyrically and the song itself, the music

574
00:28:28,598 --> 00:28:32,398
Speaker 3: of the song, So that I think is what's missing.

575
00:28:32,438 --> 00:28:35,198
Speaker 3: That's and again we've I made the comp with cars.

576
00:28:35,238 --> 00:28:36,758
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm looking at where there's gonna be like

577
00:28:36,758 --> 00:28:39,158
Speaker 3: three D cars being made right now. They're gonna print

578
00:28:39,158 --> 00:28:40,798
Speaker 3: them out of three D and then make these cars.

579
00:28:41,158 --> 00:28:43,918
Speaker 3: I mean, come on it. Really, we constantly want to

580
00:28:43,958 --> 00:28:46,958
Speaker 3: subtract the human element from everything, and while we do this,

581
00:28:47,078 --> 00:28:51,398
Speaker 3: you get a ubiquitous sameness. That's it's all that you're

582
00:28:51,438 --> 00:28:54,678
Speaker 3: seeing there. There's a lack of imagination. And I'll argue

583
00:28:54,718 --> 00:28:57,198
Speaker 3: that with anybody. So it's easy to turn back the

584
00:28:57,198 --> 00:29:01,478
Speaker 3: clock that group right their sixties, seventies, eighties, and then

585
00:29:01,518 --> 00:29:04,638
Speaker 3: to the nineties. And eventually as we continue to go forward,

586
00:29:04,718 --> 00:29:07,478
Speaker 3: we go backward because we become more of the same

587
00:29:07,598 --> 00:29:11,678
Speaker 3: and less of individuals, and we lack the charisma. Cannot

588
00:29:11,718 --> 00:29:14,838
Speaker 3: agree with you more man the songwriting, music words they matter,

589
00:29:15,518 --> 00:29:20,718
Speaker 3: and individuality, individual sounds matter, as opposed to everybody just

590
00:29:20,758 --> 00:29:23,318
Speaker 3: trying to synthesize the same stuff all the time. Which

591
00:29:23,598 --> 00:29:26,478
Speaker 3: does bother me. And why do we listen to oldies

592
00:29:26,518 --> 00:29:29,958
Speaker 3: station and not contemporary stations because they're not nearly as interesting.

593
00:29:30,358 --> 00:29:33,238
Speaker 1: Think about when you got an album back in the

594
00:29:33,318 --> 00:29:37,638
Speaker 1: seventies or eighties, especially the seventies, right and you had

595
00:29:37,958 --> 00:29:41,598
Speaker 1: the liner to the album right, and you were just

596
00:29:41,718 --> 00:29:44,158
Speaker 1: praying the lyrics are on there, and you would read

597
00:29:44,238 --> 00:29:46,558
Speaker 1: those lyrics like you were reading poetry.

598
00:29:46,918 --> 00:29:47,078
Speaker 2: Right.

599
00:29:47,198 --> 00:29:51,278
Speaker 1: You could enjoy the song without actually hearing the music

600
00:29:51,518 --> 00:29:53,918
Speaker 1: because you got lost in the words. And I don't

601
00:29:53,918 --> 00:29:55,438
Speaker 1: know about you, Joe. If I got an album and

602
00:29:55,478 --> 00:29:58,478
Speaker 1: it didn't have the song lyrics on the line, I

603
00:29:58,518 --> 00:29:59,318
Speaker 1: was disappointed.

604
00:29:59,318 --> 00:29:59,958
Speaker 3: Man.

605
00:30:00,638 --> 00:30:01,918
Speaker 2: I wanted to see the words.

606
00:30:02,198 --> 00:30:05,478
Speaker 3: Agreed, And there's also a photo too, But you're pointing

607
00:30:05,478 --> 00:30:08,558
Speaker 3: out I mean, this is my own opinion, but there's

608
00:30:08,558 --> 00:30:10,598
Speaker 3: got to be a certain I don't the words suffered

609
00:30:10,638 --> 00:30:13,838
Speaker 3: maybe not the right word, but to earn it or

610
00:30:13,918 --> 00:30:18,038
Speaker 3: have failed or constantly failed matters. I think when you're

611
00:30:18,038 --> 00:30:20,798
Speaker 3: becoming an artist and you're attempting to do something, whether

612
00:30:20,798 --> 00:30:25,838
Speaker 3: it's writing, singing or whatever, but primarily writing putting pen

613
00:30:25,918 --> 00:30:30,278
Speaker 3: to paper, there's a lot of life experience involved in that.

614
00:30:30,358 --> 00:30:33,038
Speaker 3: There's a lot of you're not good enough involved in that.

615
00:30:33,078 --> 00:30:37,118
Speaker 3: There's a lot of being turned down, maybe a broken relationship,

616
00:30:37,118 --> 00:30:41,038
Speaker 3: and all of that tragedy in your life involved in that.

617
00:30:41,478 --> 00:30:44,038
Speaker 3: So I don't know that that's tapped into today as

618
00:30:44,118 --> 00:30:47,118
Speaker 3: much as it had been. I think that's the really

619
00:30:47,198 --> 00:30:50,758
Speaker 3: roote essence of all this wonderful artistry we've had in

620
00:30:50,798 --> 00:30:54,478
Speaker 3: the past. Things were earned. I don't know that. And yeah,

621
00:30:54,918 --> 00:30:57,398
Speaker 3: this is not an age thing. This is being I

622
00:30:57,438 --> 00:30:59,758
Speaker 3: think I'm kind of pragmatic and open minded about this stuff.

623
00:30:59,798 --> 00:31:02,998
Speaker 3: I really believe the group that came up back when

624
00:31:04,158 --> 00:31:07,118
Speaker 3: they did the first the first I've talked about is

625
00:31:07,198 --> 00:31:10,518
Speaker 3: the first album, the first book. Wow, I've always wanted

626
00:31:10,638 --> 00:31:13,838
Speaker 3: that one because to me, that's like all these years

627
00:31:14,118 --> 00:31:16,718
Speaker 3: pent up years that they were writing down in notebooks,

628
00:31:17,078 --> 00:31:19,078
Speaker 3: jogging things down on napkins, and all of a sudden

629
00:31:19,278 --> 00:31:20,918
Speaker 3: they get this opportunity, they put it together, and all

630
00:31:20,918 --> 00:31:22,878
Speaker 3: of a sudden they got to hit. That to me

631
00:31:22,998 --> 00:31:25,798
Speaker 3: is really the root and soul of a lot of

632
00:31:25,838 --> 00:31:28,118
Speaker 3: these artists. And that's why you know, the first book,

633
00:31:28,158 --> 00:31:31,038
Speaker 3: like John Grisham's rout in a thousand books, but I

634
00:31:31,038 --> 00:31:33,478
Speaker 3: have to go back to the original books with him,

635
00:31:33,918 --> 00:31:38,478
Speaker 3: the firm whatever and read that stuff, because that's that's

636
00:31:38,558 --> 00:31:41,078
Speaker 3: who these people are. And that's really After that it

637
00:31:41,118 --> 00:31:44,038
Speaker 3: becomes more industrial. You got to like, you gotta do this,

638
00:31:44,078 --> 00:31:46,798
Speaker 3: I got to keep it going. But those first moments, man,

639
00:31:47,758 --> 00:31:50,078
Speaker 3: those are the ones that really impressed me. And that's

640
00:31:50,118 --> 00:31:53,518
Speaker 3: why I really still listen to this stuff. It never

641
00:31:53,598 --> 00:31:56,758
Speaker 3: gets old. It's timeless. There's universality about it that will

642
00:31:56,798 --> 00:31:59,878
Speaker 3: never grow old. Our classic rock today is equivalent to me,

643
00:32:00,038 --> 00:32:03,398
Speaker 3: is of the classical music you know, back Beethoven, Wagner, whatever,

644
00:32:03,438 --> 00:32:06,398
Speaker 3: back in the today. Timeless. It's going to stand a

645
00:32:06,478 --> 00:32:09,278
Speaker 3: test of time, this particular era, I'd say between the

646
00:32:09,358 --> 00:32:12,078
Speaker 3: sixties into the seventies for sure. Maybe it's going to

647
00:32:12,158 --> 00:32:14,358
Speaker 3: dash into the eighties a bit, but there's a timelessness

648
00:32:14,398 --> 00:32:16,438
Speaker 3: about it that well, there's always going to be an

649
00:32:16,438 --> 00:32:19,158
Speaker 3: OLDI station playing this one hundred years from now.

650
00:32:19,438 --> 00:32:21,438
Speaker 2: The Struggle, right, we talk about it a lot here

651
00:32:21,478 --> 00:32:22,158
Speaker 2: on the book of Joe.

652
00:32:22,318 --> 00:32:27,318
Speaker 1: The Struggle and you know the upside to struggling and listen,

653
00:32:27,398 --> 00:32:31,318
Speaker 1: you talk about classical music. Brahms took twenty years to

654
00:32:31,358 --> 00:32:34,798
Speaker 1: write his first symphony. Twenty years to write his first symphony.

655
00:32:35,078 --> 00:32:37,398
Speaker 1: And I'll give you a couple of lines. I have

656
00:32:37,438 --> 00:32:41,478
Speaker 1: to do this from Warren Zevon. I mentioned were wolves

657
00:32:41,478 --> 00:32:44,998
Speaker 1: of London. I saw a were wolf with a Chinese

658
00:32:45,038 --> 00:32:48,958
Speaker 1: menu in his hand, walking the streets of Soho in

659
00:32:48,998 --> 00:32:51,958
Speaker 1: the rain. He was looking for the place called Lee.

660
00:32:52,038 --> 00:32:55,518
Speaker 1: Who folks going to get a big dish of beef

661
00:32:55,638 --> 00:32:56,238
Speaker 1: chow Maine.

662
00:32:57,318 --> 00:32:58,998
Speaker 2: And here's one of my favorites, Joe.

663
00:32:59,678 --> 00:33:03,598
Speaker 1: We buy books because we believe we're buying the time

664
00:33:03,718 --> 00:33:04,758
Speaker 1: to read them.

665
00:33:05,438 --> 00:33:07,398
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, I mean I see that. To

666
00:33:07,438 --> 00:33:11,118
Speaker 3: me is that's a person that really is just observing

667
00:33:11,278 --> 00:33:15,558
Speaker 3: everything around him and everything around him. All these observations

668
00:33:15,598 --> 00:33:18,798
Speaker 3: he's taken the heart and then maybe jogging this down

669
00:33:18,878 --> 00:33:20,758
Speaker 3: or it's it's it's embedded in his mind. So when

670
00:33:20,798 --> 00:33:23,278
Speaker 3: it comes down to, like you said, pen the paper,

671
00:33:23,718 --> 00:33:25,598
Speaker 3: they just start coming out because he's had these life

672
00:33:25,598 --> 00:33:29,318
Speaker 3: experiences where he really did pay attention. Whereas today we're

673
00:33:29,318 --> 00:33:32,278
Speaker 3: gonna rely on AI. We're going to rely on mechanics

674
00:33:32,598 --> 00:33:34,998
Speaker 3: to write for us, to create for us. And I mean,

675
00:33:35,078 --> 00:33:38,518
Speaker 3: you know, reading about you know, uh the uh not

676
00:33:38,558 --> 00:33:41,238
Speaker 3: Millennium gen Z, guys and women all of a sudden

677
00:33:41,238 --> 00:33:44,558
Speaker 3: they want them. They're gonna they're okay with relationships based

678
00:33:44,598 --> 00:33:47,878
Speaker 3: on AI. It's like it's insanity where we're going right

679
00:33:47,918 --> 00:33:51,398
Speaker 3: now and not really realizing we're spinning out of control

680
00:33:51,398 --> 00:33:54,118
Speaker 3: with all this crap. There warn't xenons of the world.

681
00:33:54,758 --> 00:33:59,558
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the stuff that gosh, I mean again, timelessness.

682
00:33:59,598 --> 00:34:01,878
Speaker 3: You wish it would never go away. There's got to

683
00:34:01,878 --> 00:34:05,398
Speaker 3: be a moment in the near future hopefully that really

684
00:34:06,998 --> 00:34:10,878
Speaker 3: permits us to not get caught up in this hamster

685
00:34:10,918 --> 00:34:14,918
Speaker 3: wheel of so called progress where we're becoming less and

686
00:34:14,958 --> 00:34:17,798
Speaker 3: less important as human beings. Our minds are becoming less

687
00:34:17,838 --> 00:34:21,358
Speaker 3: and less important because relying on all this other stuff

688
00:34:21,678 --> 00:34:25,078
Speaker 3: to conclude for us, and I can't stand that, quite frankly,

689
00:34:25,478 --> 00:34:27,838
Speaker 3: for somebody else to conclude for me, or a machine

690
00:34:27,838 --> 00:34:29,998
Speaker 3: to conclude for me is really repulsive.

691
00:34:30,518 --> 00:34:32,478
Speaker 1: I'm with you, and I think I don't know how

692
00:34:32,518 --> 00:34:36,158
Speaker 1: this changes, but we really have to de emphasize putting

693
00:34:36,158 --> 00:34:40,598
Speaker 1: the emphasis on convenience and speed and hacks. Right, I

694
00:34:40,798 --> 00:34:46,278
Speaker 1: really lost the value of kind of that stick toitiveness,

695
00:34:46,438 --> 00:34:49,078
Speaker 1: where the reward is putting in the work and the

696
00:34:49,118 --> 00:34:52,398
Speaker 1: payoff at the end rather than how quickly can I

697
00:34:52,398 --> 00:34:54,838
Speaker 1: get there? What hacks can I use, whether it's AI,

698
00:34:54,998 --> 00:34:57,878
Speaker 1: whatever it is. People are in such a hurry, and

699
00:34:57,918 --> 00:35:02,478
Speaker 1: that includes music making, right, I mean, there's formulas, there's algorithms,

700
00:35:02,518 --> 00:35:04,918
Speaker 1: Just plug it in, sell a few albums, You're done.

701
00:35:05,198 --> 00:35:07,358
Speaker 2: Nobody stays together anymore, so.

702
00:35:08,078 --> 00:35:11,598
Speaker 1: The idea that things are worth working for I don't

703
00:35:11,598 --> 00:35:13,078
Speaker 1: know where along the line.

704
00:35:13,118 --> 00:35:15,118
Speaker 2: We lost that job, but we've got to get it back.

705
00:35:15,478 --> 00:35:19,358
Speaker 3: There's a tremendous amount of value in failure. It's don't

706
00:35:19,358 --> 00:35:24,558
Speaker 3: overlook it. Ever. You primarily learn through your failures as

707
00:35:24,558 --> 00:35:29,678
Speaker 3: opposed to your positive outcomes. So I am so about that.

708
00:35:29,878 --> 00:35:33,038
Speaker 3: I could recap boringly all the different times that I

709
00:35:33,118 --> 00:35:36,718
Speaker 3: failed in order to get to become a major league manager.

710
00:35:36,838 --> 00:35:39,118
Speaker 3: Was a fifty one, has some good runs after that,

711
00:35:39,598 --> 00:35:43,038
Speaker 3: But I could recap all the awful moments where you

712
00:35:43,078 --> 00:35:45,558
Speaker 3: barely could afford Christmas for your kids. You know, you

713
00:35:45,598 --> 00:35:49,398
Speaker 3: can't even transportation back home this ye your parents over

714
00:35:49,438 --> 00:35:52,158
Speaker 3: holidays cost so much. You put on the credit card

715
00:35:52,198 --> 00:35:54,558
Speaker 3: anyway because you had to do it, or even the

716
00:35:54,598 --> 00:35:56,278
Speaker 3: credit card build it. But I know what's happening now

717
00:35:56,278 --> 00:35:59,358
Speaker 3: that you did as a kid to order to put

718
00:35:59,398 --> 00:36:01,358
Speaker 3: a couch in your house whatever, then you have to

719
00:36:01,358 --> 00:36:03,998
Speaker 3: pay these exorbitan rates. I mean, we all done it.

720
00:36:03,998 --> 00:36:06,158
Speaker 3: It's still happening right now. But you got to go

721
00:36:06,198 --> 00:36:09,638
Speaker 3: through these really high levels of failure to become a success.

722
00:36:09,718 --> 00:36:13,238
Speaker 3: I believe, and I don't think you just suggested. I

723
00:36:13,238 --> 00:36:15,958
Speaker 3: don't know that today's world really wants to take the

724
00:36:15,998 --> 00:36:18,198
Speaker 3: time to fail they want to go right to success,

725
00:36:18,518 --> 00:36:21,958
Speaker 3: and it's no different than guys getting major league managerial jobs.

726
00:36:22,158 --> 00:36:24,558
Speaker 3: I'm just going to jump to baseball without having the

727
00:36:24,598 --> 00:36:27,638
Speaker 3: opportunity to fail on a minor league level or fail

728
00:36:27,678 --> 00:36:30,358
Speaker 3: in the scouting profession where you look at your draft

729
00:36:30,438 --> 00:36:33,518
Speaker 3: list that you turn in and you find out that Wow,

730
00:36:33,878 --> 00:36:35,878
Speaker 3: like Jeene Thompson said, don't put the guy on the

731
00:36:35,918 --> 00:36:38,158
Speaker 3: list unless you really want to, because that's the guy

732
00:36:38,198 --> 00:36:41,238
Speaker 3: they're going to draft for you. These are like valuable

733
00:36:41,318 --> 00:36:45,838
Speaker 3: lessons learned that we need to appreciate again, and that

734
00:36:45,918 --> 00:36:49,118
Speaker 3: to me would be the bedrock the foundation of really

735
00:36:49,238 --> 00:36:52,758
Speaker 3: rebuilding all of this to the point where you could

736
00:36:52,798 --> 00:36:54,678
Speaker 3: see the light at the end of the tunnel and

737
00:36:54,718 --> 00:36:58,318
Speaker 3: you could feel good about yourself because you really accomplish

738
00:36:58,438 --> 00:37:00,878
Speaker 3: something through your own thoughts and deeds based on your

739
00:37:00,878 --> 00:37:02,518
Speaker 3: own life experiences.

740
00:37:03,158 --> 00:37:03,558
Speaker 2: Amen.

741
00:37:04,198 --> 00:37:06,278
Speaker 1: And with that, we're gonna take a quick break on

742
00:37:06,318 --> 00:37:07,918
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe. We get back and we're going

743
00:37:07,998 --> 00:37:11,078
Speaker 1: to continue with our manager theme. I saw an old

744
00:37:11,158 --> 00:37:13,198
Speaker 1: school managerial.

745
00:37:12,598 --> 00:37:14,878
Speaker 2: Rant the other day. Boy, I missed those.

746
00:37:14,958 --> 00:37:18,078
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that right after this.

747
00:37:28,678 --> 00:37:30,158
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe.

748
00:37:31,198 --> 00:37:34,278
Speaker 1: One of your former players, Rocco Baldelli gave me an

749
00:37:34,438 --> 00:37:37,758
Speaker 1: entertaining rant the other day, Joe, I'm doing a game

750
00:37:37,798 --> 00:37:41,878
Speaker 1: for Fox in Minnesota. Adrian Johnson was the homeplate umpire,

751
00:37:42,518 --> 00:37:44,918
Speaker 1: and I didn't think he was having that bad of

752
00:37:44,958 --> 00:37:47,718
Speaker 1: a game. Actually, I hadn't noticed anything. You know, sometimes

753
00:37:47,718 --> 00:37:50,238
Speaker 1: you're following along and you're like, man, this guy's off today,

754
00:37:50,318 --> 00:37:52,278
Speaker 1: or this guy's really good today. It was just kind

755
00:37:52,318 --> 00:37:54,358
Speaker 1: of non the script. It was fine by me, but

756
00:37:54,398 --> 00:37:57,238
Speaker 1: not apparently to Rocco Baldelli. There was one strike call

757
00:37:57,318 --> 00:37:59,638
Speaker 1: that he especially didn't like. I'm sure it wasn't the

758
00:37:59,638 --> 00:38:02,398
Speaker 1: first time he piped up. So he comes running out

759
00:38:02,718 --> 00:38:06,998
Speaker 1: and boy, a lot of his adjectives started with the

760
00:38:07,078 --> 00:38:09,638
Speaker 1: letter F. I mean, this went on for a while,

761
00:38:09,838 --> 00:38:12,198
Speaker 1: and just to cap it off, it was perfect theater.

762
00:38:12,358 --> 00:38:15,158
Speaker 1: You just don't see this anymore. As he's walking towards

763
00:38:15,198 --> 00:38:17,198
Speaker 1: the dugout at the end of his day, thrown out

764
00:38:17,198 --> 00:38:19,878
Speaker 1: of the game by injury, Johnson he takes his cap

765
00:38:19,958 --> 00:38:23,638
Speaker 1: off and he dramatically flings it over his head, just.

766
00:38:23,718 --> 00:38:25,278
Speaker 2: Like by the way Mary Tyler Moore.

767
00:38:25,358 --> 00:38:28,878
Speaker 1: Since we were in Minneapolis, it was a beautiful thing.

768
00:38:29,158 --> 00:38:33,358
Speaker 1: We don't see that really, really, I don't think often enough. Listen,

769
00:38:33,438 --> 00:38:35,798
Speaker 1: you don't want to encourage, you know, just for the

770
00:38:35,838 --> 00:38:37,718
Speaker 1: sake of going out there making a scene, but why

771
00:38:37,758 --> 00:38:39,118
Speaker 1: not blow off some steam.

772
00:38:39,558 --> 00:38:43,838
Speaker 2: It's part of the game's tradition. What's interesting to me, Joe.

773
00:38:43,678 --> 00:38:47,558
Speaker 1: Is Adrian Johnson's previous game before this one was in

774
00:38:47,638 --> 00:38:51,798
Speaker 1: New York. Yankees Padres and Mike Shilt had come out

775
00:38:51,838 --> 00:38:55,358
Speaker 1: of the dugout, and before he went into his tirade

776
00:38:55,398 --> 00:38:58,638
Speaker 1: to Adrian Johnson behind the plate, he threw away his

777
00:38:58,758 --> 00:39:02,358
Speaker 1: lineup card. Then he took off his glasses and threw

778
00:39:02,398 --> 00:39:06,038
Speaker 1: away his glasses, being careful enough to make sure he

779
00:39:06,078 --> 00:39:08,358
Speaker 1: threw them into the grass so they weren't scratched. I'd

780
00:39:08,438 --> 00:39:11,198
Speaker 1: never seen a guy to get himself ready for his

781
00:39:11,318 --> 00:39:15,638
Speaker 1: argument whip off his glasses and throw them away. So Rocco,

782
00:39:16,038 --> 00:39:19,198
Speaker 1: Mike Schilt, thank you for that, although Adrian Johnson probably

783
00:39:19,238 --> 00:39:19,878
Speaker 1: not thanking you.

784
00:39:20,478 --> 00:39:23,878
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was watching that game with the Yankees, and

785
00:39:23,958 --> 00:39:27,198
Speaker 3: I think Shilty was right. Beyond that, I'm so proud

786
00:39:27,238 --> 00:39:31,158
Speaker 3: of Roco. Providence was said win Socket Woon Socket Rhode.

787
00:39:30,918 --> 00:39:32,478
Speaker 2: Island one socket Rocket.

788
00:39:32,558 --> 00:39:34,678
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean all the folks back home had to

789
00:39:34,678 --> 00:39:36,838
Speaker 3: be very proud. I mean Rocco is one of the

790
00:39:36,918 --> 00:39:41,798
Speaker 3: most civil members of the Major League Baseball family, and

791
00:39:41,878 --> 00:39:43,478
Speaker 3: I love the fact that he lost his mind a

792
00:39:43,518 --> 00:39:46,038
Speaker 3: little bit. Roco was one of my all time favorites.

793
00:39:46,318 --> 00:39:48,958
Speaker 3: It's just just on a side note to me, if

794
00:39:48,998 --> 00:39:51,158
Speaker 3: that guy did not get hurt, he'd have been like

795
00:39:51,198 --> 00:39:53,678
Speaker 3: one of the top ten players of his era, no question.

796
00:39:53,718 --> 00:39:56,918
Speaker 3: He was that talented. Every part of the game was

797
00:39:56,998 --> 00:40:00,398
Speaker 3: that good, and nobody talks about it. He was that good.

798
00:40:00,718 --> 00:40:04,038
Speaker 3: It says that's the biggest shame ever that he the

799
00:40:04,238 --> 00:40:07,438
Speaker 3: mitochondria concerns that he had and how it kept him down.

800
00:40:07,478 --> 00:40:10,678
Speaker 3: But I as a manager on the field, I would

801
00:40:10,678 --> 00:40:13,638
Speaker 3: watch him and I thought he defined Joe Demagio to me,

802
00:40:13,918 --> 00:40:16,678
Speaker 3: only probably a little bit bigger, stronger, possibly, But the

803
00:40:16,718 --> 00:40:20,478
Speaker 3: way he moved and everything he did was that good.

804
00:40:20,758 --> 00:40:22,638
Speaker 3: And it's too bad we got cheated out of all that.

805
00:40:22,918 --> 00:40:25,158
Speaker 3: But all the managers, yeah, you got to lose your mind.

806
00:40:25,198 --> 00:40:27,678
Speaker 3: Sometimes you have to lose your mind. You can't keep

807
00:40:27,718 --> 00:40:30,318
Speaker 3: it inside, and it's got to be extemporaneous. I mean

808
00:40:30,358 --> 00:40:32,638
Speaker 3: there's times I did plan those things a little bit

809
00:40:32,918 --> 00:40:35,158
Speaker 3: because I just had enough and I said, the first opportunity,

810
00:40:35,198 --> 00:40:38,598
Speaker 3: I'm out there, But the best ones are the extemporaneous

811
00:40:38,638 --> 00:40:40,678
Speaker 3: moments when you weren't. You're just in there enjoying the game,

812
00:40:40,678 --> 00:40:42,078
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden you just lose your mind.

813
00:40:42,558 --> 00:40:46,118
Speaker 3: And the players do appreciate that. I really believe that too,

814
00:40:46,518 --> 00:40:49,198
Speaker 3: But you got to get it off your chest afterwards.

815
00:40:49,198 --> 00:40:52,038
Speaker 3: I'd go inside have a shot of Crown Royal or

816
00:40:52,078 --> 00:40:54,078
Speaker 3: something like that, just to calm you down, because you've

817
00:40:54,078 --> 00:40:57,478
Speaker 3: got to talk to the press afterwards. But it's that intense, man,

818
00:40:57,518 --> 00:41:00,198
Speaker 3: you get going like that, you're shaken. You come up

819
00:41:00,278 --> 00:41:02,078
Speaker 3: the field, you think yourself that I really say that,

820
00:41:02,558 --> 00:41:04,358
Speaker 3: But just then you stay to the club, just give me,

821
00:41:04,398 --> 00:41:05,758
Speaker 3: give me a shot of something that I got to

822
00:41:05,758 --> 00:41:07,838
Speaker 3: settle down. And that's just the way. It's just the truth,

823
00:41:07,838 --> 00:41:11,118
Speaker 3: and it's a beautiful part of the game, and I'd

824
00:41:11,158 --> 00:41:13,638
Speaker 3: love to see more of it. But with all technology

825
00:41:13,638 --> 00:41:16,358
Speaker 3: involved and more tech involved in our game, the less

826
00:41:16,358 --> 00:41:18,278
Speaker 3: emotion you're going to see. So when you guess to

827
00:41:18,318 --> 00:41:21,238
Speaker 3: the point of automatic ball strike stuff, and if that

828
00:41:21,238 --> 00:41:25,798
Speaker 3: becomes even more common and useful are utilized, you're going

829
00:41:25,838 --> 00:41:28,958
Speaker 3: to see even less of this. The more tech involved,

830
00:41:29,038 --> 00:41:30,718
Speaker 3: the less emotion from humans.

831
00:41:31,158 --> 00:41:34,238
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a couple of notes on Rocco as well.

832
00:41:34,718 --> 00:41:37,278
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick called him the best athlete he ever saw.

833
00:41:37,598 --> 00:41:39,078
Speaker 2: I mean, he was that special.

834
00:41:39,158 --> 00:41:39,638
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.

835
00:41:40,238 --> 00:41:44,358
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he's huge, as you know, Fish fan, the

836
00:41:44,398 --> 00:41:48,158
Speaker 1: band Fish. I mean, he's been to a gazillion concerts.

837
00:41:48,198 --> 00:41:52,038
Speaker 1: And I mentioned to Roco that Fish actually was on

838
00:41:52,198 --> 00:41:54,078
Speaker 1: the ballot for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

839
00:41:54,238 --> 00:41:56,718
Speaker 1: They won the fan vote, which is just a small

840
00:41:56,878 --> 00:42:00,558
Speaker 1: portion that it's basically a committee that makes the final vote,

841
00:42:00,998 --> 00:42:03,798
Speaker 1: but didn't get in. And as Rocco said, knowing Fish

842
00:42:03,918 --> 00:42:06,278
Speaker 1: as an all fan, it's like they're probably very good

843
00:42:06,358 --> 00:42:08,118
Speaker 1: with that, the fact that they didn't get in.

844
00:42:08,798 --> 00:42:10,398
Speaker 2: But you mentioned the strike zone, Joe.

845
00:42:10,438 --> 00:42:14,558
Speaker 1: It's interesting because what I'm hearing and noticing myself, and

846
00:42:14,598 --> 00:42:17,398
Speaker 1: maybe some of this is confirmation bias. The strike zone

847
00:42:17,558 --> 00:42:21,838
Speaker 1: on the edges, especially the bottom, is not the same

848
00:42:22,038 --> 00:42:26,318
Speaker 1: as before. And you know when the umpires were graded before,

849
00:42:26,918 --> 00:42:31,078
Speaker 1: they had a buffer essentially the size of a baseball,

850
00:42:31,118 --> 00:42:32,478
Speaker 1: like a five inch buffer.

851
00:42:32,518 --> 00:42:35,118
Speaker 2: So if the ball was five inches just below.

852
00:42:34,838 --> 00:42:37,598
Speaker 1: The hairline of the strike zone and they called it

853
00:42:37,838 --> 00:42:41,558
Speaker 1: a strike, that counted as a correct call. And they're

854
00:42:41,638 --> 00:42:44,198
Speaker 1: trying to ace the tests, so to speak, because they

855
00:42:44,238 --> 00:42:47,038
Speaker 1: get graded after each game. And what they've done now

856
00:42:47,198 --> 00:42:49,358
Speaker 1: after they had the trial run in the spring training

857
00:42:49,478 --> 00:42:53,558
Speaker 1: with the Challenge system, is now calling a much more

858
00:42:53,758 --> 00:42:57,398
Speaker 1: literal strike zone, so that buffer zone is gone. They're

859
00:42:57,398 --> 00:43:00,598
Speaker 1: anticipating the fact that Challenge system will be in play

860
00:43:00,638 --> 00:43:03,238
Speaker 1: for next year, So you're training the umpires now to

861
00:43:03,318 --> 00:43:06,718
Speaker 1: make sure you're literally calling a zone with no buffer zone.

862
00:43:07,398 --> 00:43:10,918
Speaker 1: And what pitchers and managers and hitters are noticing is

863
00:43:10,958 --> 00:43:14,078
Speaker 1: that fifty to fifty ball now is not being called

864
00:43:14,078 --> 00:43:16,918
Speaker 1: a strike that's on the edges or maybe just slightly

865
00:43:16,998 --> 00:43:20,118
Speaker 1: off the edge, because that's the way AI is going

866
00:43:20,158 --> 00:43:21,198
Speaker 1: to see it next year.

867
00:43:22,118 --> 00:43:22,558
Speaker 3: So far, it.

868
00:43:22,598 --> 00:43:27,678
Speaker 1: Hasn't translated to me in terms of more offense. Batting, average,

869
00:43:27,958 --> 00:43:31,918
Speaker 1: run scored, slugging are slightly down from last year's number.

870
00:43:31,998 --> 00:43:33,598
Speaker 1: Now we have to give it time because in the

871
00:43:33,598 --> 00:43:35,438
Speaker 1: summer we know offense goes up a little bit.

872
00:43:35,478 --> 00:43:37,958
Speaker 2: But that's what I'm seeing here. Maybe it's anecdotal.

873
00:43:37,998 --> 00:43:39,798
Speaker 1: I think there is some data that teams have that

874
00:43:39,878 --> 00:43:42,718
Speaker 1: show the strike zone is a little bit smaller this year,

875
00:43:43,318 --> 00:43:46,758
Speaker 1: but it's all for the coming of AI and the

876
00:43:46,838 --> 00:43:47,758
Speaker 1: Challenge System.

877
00:43:47,878 --> 00:43:49,838
Speaker 3: How about Chase, I mean that would be part of

878
00:43:49,878 --> 00:43:51,878
Speaker 3: it too. I mean, okay, maybe that it's a little

879
00:43:51,878 --> 00:43:55,718
Speaker 3: bit more finite within the strike zone, but how much

880
00:43:55,878 --> 00:43:58,678
Speaker 3: more are people or hitters swinging outside of the strike

881
00:43:58,798 --> 00:44:03,398
Speaker 3: zone based on breaking balls and of course velocity just too,

882
00:44:03,518 --> 00:44:07,118
Speaker 3: because you're saying you would think smaller zone, greater offense

883
00:44:07,198 --> 00:44:10,638
Speaker 3: or production, but you're not necessarily seeing anything substantial. So

884
00:44:10,678 --> 00:44:13,158
Speaker 3: I wonder if chase is up based on a lot

885
00:44:13,158 --> 00:44:15,718
Speaker 3: of other elements, that's kind of mitigating the smaller strike

886
00:44:15,798 --> 00:44:18,198
Speaker 3: zone or making it moot the fact that it doesn't

887
00:44:18,198 --> 00:44:22,038
Speaker 3: really matter. Just again, when it comes down to smaller

888
00:44:22,038 --> 00:44:26,838
Speaker 3: strike zone, if you're locating, if the ball is located

889
00:44:26,878 --> 00:44:28,598
Speaker 3: well in a good spot, it's still not going to

890
00:44:28,678 --> 00:44:31,078
Speaker 3: matter a whole lot, I don't think, But you're right.

891
00:44:31,118 --> 00:44:33,238
Speaker 3: I mean, the five inch buffer was a joke. We

892
00:44:33,318 --> 00:44:35,398
Speaker 3: knew it was a joke, but then again, it was

893
00:44:35,438 --> 00:44:38,358
Speaker 3: the same for everybody, and every umpire was different. Man,

894
00:44:38,398 --> 00:44:40,478
Speaker 3: we skip those heat maps and you would see the

895
00:44:40,478 --> 00:44:43,158
Speaker 3: heat maps knowing where the umpire was more liberal. And

896
00:44:43,198 --> 00:44:45,838
Speaker 3: we've talked about this also where right handed picture versus

897
00:44:45,878 --> 00:44:47,518
Speaker 3: the right hand hitter, a left handed hitter than a

898
00:44:47,598 --> 00:44:50,438
Speaker 3: left handed pitcher versus left nd righty. The umpire had

899
00:44:50,478 --> 00:44:52,998
Speaker 3: like four different strike zones based on all these different

900
00:44:53,718 --> 00:44:57,318
Speaker 3: moments with the handedness of the pitcher and the batter,

901
00:44:57,398 --> 00:44:58,998
Speaker 3: so you had to look at all these different things,

902
00:44:59,198 --> 00:45:02,158
Speaker 3: and you wanted your catcher to adjust accordingly. Some guys

903
00:45:02,198 --> 00:45:04,638
Speaker 3: are really tight on the inside edge were which I

904
00:45:04,678 --> 00:45:07,558
Speaker 3: normally saw was tight on the inside edge right on right,

905
00:45:07,638 --> 00:45:11,358
Speaker 3: more liberal away as an example, and then like sweeping

906
00:45:11,398 --> 00:45:14,878
Speaker 3: pitches away like left on left, maybe more liberal outside

907
00:45:14,918 --> 00:45:17,118
Speaker 3: on a breaking ball, you would just try to find

908
00:45:17,118 --> 00:45:19,758
Speaker 3: wherever that edge was. You try to find it based

909
00:45:19,798 --> 00:45:22,358
Speaker 3: on the heat map. So they're trying to in a

910
00:45:22,358 --> 00:45:24,598
Speaker 3: good way. They're trying to make this more uniform. I

911
00:45:24,678 --> 00:45:27,878
Speaker 3: understand that completely. But even though the strike zone may

912
00:45:27,878 --> 00:45:32,238
Speaker 3: be more finite or consistent, I'm curious about off how

913
00:45:32,318 --> 00:45:35,158
Speaker 3: often guys are chasing outside of the zone compared to

914
00:45:35,198 --> 00:45:37,478
Speaker 3: the past, That would be that would be interesting to me.

915
00:45:37,838 --> 00:45:40,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, that number actually hasn't changed all that much. It's

916
00:45:40,638 --> 00:45:44,478
Speaker 1: traditionally around thirty one percent. Last year was thirty one

917
00:45:44,478 --> 00:45:48,438
Speaker 1: point eight. This year's thirty one point one, So the

918
00:45:48,558 --> 00:45:50,798
Speaker 1: chase rate really hasn't gone up. Where the game has

919
00:45:50,918 --> 00:45:53,198
Speaker 1: changed now is pitch shaping, though I mean, we talk

920
00:45:53,278 --> 00:45:55,318
Speaker 1: all the time here about there's so much more spin

921
00:45:55,358 --> 00:45:58,918
Speaker 1: in the game today. Maybe they're just taking these pitches

922
00:45:58,958 --> 00:46:01,398
Speaker 1: and just trying to, you know, zero in on something

923
00:46:01,438 --> 00:46:04,078
Speaker 1: in the zone. But the chase rate itself is pretty

924
00:46:04,158 --> 00:46:06,678
Speaker 1: much been kind of held standard.

925
00:46:07,038 --> 00:46:07,878
Speaker 2: But I agree with you.

926
00:46:08,238 --> 00:46:11,718
Speaker 1: It's me the hitting environment is so hard in baseball today,

927
00:46:12,718 --> 00:46:15,078
Speaker 1: pitchers just keep getting an edge on hitters.

928
00:46:15,118 --> 00:46:15,878
Speaker 2: In my book, how.

929
00:46:15,838 --> 00:46:18,118
Speaker 3: About like ex velocities like this ball put in plays

930
00:46:18,198 --> 00:46:19,198
Speaker 3: or anything different on that.

931
00:46:19,318 --> 00:46:22,358
Speaker 1: I have to check that out. It's a good question.

932
00:46:22,678 --> 00:46:24,918
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that has changed. I wouldn't expect that

933
00:46:24,998 --> 00:46:27,798
Speaker 1: to change all too much. Are you thinking about torpedo bets.

934
00:46:28,158 --> 00:46:31,118
Speaker 3: I'm just thinking in general, I mean, why there shouldn't

935
00:46:31,118 --> 00:46:33,158
Speaker 3: be a significant You would think there'd be a little

936
00:46:33,158 --> 00:46:34,878
Speaker 3: bit of a jack based on the fact that the

937
00:46:34,878 --> 00:46:37,878
Speaker 3: strike zone is being called differently and hitters should have

938
00:46:37,998 --> 00:46:40,638
Speaker 3: a little bit better edge in regards to if there's

939
00:46:40,678 --> 00:46:43,598
Speaker 3: not more chase, you think they'd hit the ball more

940
00:46:43,638 --> 00:46:45,798
Speaker 3: consistently well, based on the fact that they're not getting

941
00:46:46,158 --> 00:46:49,038
Speaker 3: the pitchers aren't getting so much on the edges. I'm

942
00:46:49,078 --> 00:46:52,358
Speaker 3: just just curious. But we talked about this, and it's true,

943
00:46:52,638 --> 00:46:56,278
Speaker 3: the hitters really get very little analytically from the world

944
00:46:56,278 --> 00:46:59,238
Speaker 3: where the pitcher and defense they're pretty much the superstars.

945
00:46:59,238 --> 00:47:01,998
Speaker 3: They get this stuff that really does make a difference.

946
00:47:02,558 --> 00:47:06,678
Speaker 1: Well, wraps up are edition of you know, Manager Check

947
00:47:07,198 --> 00:47:09,958
Speaker 1: as far as it goes, because you talked about two

948
00:47:09,958 --> 00:47:13,558
Speaker 1: teams changing managers that you know, nobody really thinks of

949
00:47:13,598 --> 00:47:16,078
Speaker 1: them as playoff teams. So I'm not sure they're chasing

950
00:47:16,118 --> 00:47:19,878
Speaker 1: wins as much as they're just you know, kind of

951
00:47:20,358 --> 00:47:22,158
Speaker 1: giving the door to somebody who didn't have a lot

952
00:47:22,198 --> 00:47:24,038
Speaker 1: to do with where these teams are at.

953
00:47:23,958 --> 00:47:25,558
Speaker 2: In terms of the Pirates and the Rockies.

954
00:47:26,398 --> 00:47:28,278
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you had anything in mind when

955
00:47:28,318 --> 00:47:30,918
Speaker 1: you chose your thought of the day, Joe, but when

956
00:47:30,958 --> 00:47:33,438
Speaker 1: it came to managers, but what do you have for

957
00:47:33,558 --> 00:47:36,278
Speaker 1: us today to and this edition of the Book of Joe.

958
00:47:36,398 --> 00:47:40,238
Speaker 3: I think I'm attacking AI. We were there a little bit, yeah,

959
00:47:40,278 --> 00:47:43,158
Speaker 3: you know, and I there's a couple but the one

960
00:47:43,198 --> 00:47:45,398
Speaker 3: that I really from Gertrude Stein, it just the one

961
00:47:45,398 --> 00:47:48,798
Speaker 3: that really stuck for me today was about where we

962
00:47:48,798 --> 00:47:51,238
Speaker 3: we what we see is not exactly what's going on.

963
00:47:51,318 --> 00:47:54,158
Speaker 3: It's kind of a thought and it came up with this.

964
00:47:54,318 --> 00:47:57,718
Speaker 3: Everybody gets so much information all day long that they

965
00:47:57,718 --> 00:48:00,878
Speaker 3: lose their common sense. So, you know, we're so flooded.

966
00:48:01,278 --> 00:48:02,958
Speaker 3: I mean, I was thinking about, like, I'm I'm a

967
00:48:03,078 --> 00:48:06,878
Speaker 3: I'm a culprit right now. Really, I watch a lot

968
00:48:06,918 --> 00:48:09,118
Speaker 3: of news on television, I do. I watch that more

969
00:48:09,118 --> 00:48:11,758
Speaker 3: than I watch baseball, which is like ridiculous. I watch

970
00:48:11,838 --> 00:48:14,878
Speaker 3: news even more than Seinfeld right now, which is unbelievable.

971
00:48:15,198 --> 00:48:18,118
Speaker 3: But they're getting We're flooded with so much information all

972
00:48:18,198 --> 00:48:21,238
Speaker 3: day long, and of course there's bias involved. You've got

973
00:48:21,278 --> 00:48:23,278
Speaker 3: to choose your bias how it lines up to your

974
00:48:23,278 --> 00:48:25,958
Speaker 3: own lens of the world. But why you do that.

975
00:48:26,038 --> 00:48:29,598
Speaker 3: I think it's really important to absolutely listen to the

976
00:48:29,598 --> 00:48:32,278
Speaker 3: other side, and when I do, I find out that

977
00:48:32,358 --> 00:48:35,918
Speaker 3: it really kind of galvanizes what I do believe by

978
00:48:36,038 --> 00:48:38,278
Speaker 3: listening to what I believe is the side that's not

979
00:48:38,318 --> 00:48:42,718
Speaker 3: making any sense. But there's so much information that I

980
00:48:42,758 --> 00:48:45,958
Speaker 3: think that people are so influenced by what we're hearing

981
00:48:45,998 --> 00:48:48,278
Speaker 3: that they fail to make up their own minds. That's

982
00:48:48,438 --> 00:48:50,038
Speaker 3: I think that's the point I was trying to get at.

983
00:48:50,398 --> 00:48:53,718
Speaker 3: So I really would encourage and I believe it's you know,

984
00:48:53,798 --> 00:48:55,758
Speaker 3: when we take in all this stuff because it's coming

985
00:48:55,758 --> 00:48:58,078
Speaker 3: from so many different directions. Where in the past we

986
00:48:58,118 --> 00:49:00,358
Speaker 3: had a way for the morning newspaper, you were too

987
00:49:00,358 --> 00:49:01,958
Speaker 3: busy during the day to listen to any kind of

988
00:49:01,958 --> 00:49:04,078
Speaker 3: news radio kind of stuff. At the end of the day,

989
00:49:04,078 --> 00:49:07,478
Speaker 3: there was like Huntley Brinkley at the end of the

990
00:49:07,558 --> 00:49:11,478
Speaker 3: day or whatever. There's three News, Walter Cronkite that was

991
00:49:11,518 --> 00:49:13,718
Speaker 3: your news, and maybe the local news at the end

992
00:49:13,718 --> 00:49:17,518
Speaker 3: of the night, possibly, But there wasn't all this glut

993
00:49:17,958 --> 00:49:22,358
Speaker 3: of constantly streaming news and information to us to the

994
00:49:22,398 --> 00:49:26,078
Speaker 3: point where we're becoming so inundated with that it's hard

995
00:49:26,078 --> 00:49:27,438
Speaker 3: to make up your own mind anymore. And I just

996
00:49:27,478 --> 00:49:29,358
Speaker 3: I've always been about that, make up your own mind.

997
00:49:29,358 --> 00:49:31,638
Speaker 3: We've kind of touched on that when I was ranting

998
00:49:31,678 --> 00:49:34,678
Speaker 3: about the Rockies doing what they think is right. So

999
00:49:35,318 --> 00:49:37,998
Speaker 3: I'm just I would just hope that we continue to

1000
00:49:38,078 --> 00:49:41,358
Speaker 3: use our common sense, our own sense of our group

1001
00:49:41,438 --> 00:49:44,438
Speaker 3: of sensibilities that we've nurtured over years based on where

1002
00:49:44,438 --> 00:49:46,838
Speaker 3: we're from and who we grew up around. I just

1003
00:49:46,918 --> 00:49:50,278
Speaker 3: see that as not being as important anymore, and I

1004
00:49:50,278 --> 00:49:52,598
Speaker 3: think it needs to be more important so that we

1005
00:49:52,798 --> 00:49:56,358
Speaker 3: can stay grounded and what we believe in and not

1006
00:49:56,478 --> 00:50:00,358
Speaker 3: be afraid to argue and disagree and with somebody that

1007
00:50:00,398 --> 00:50:05,118
Speaker 3: you totally don't believe their set of values whatever, have

1008
00:50:05,238 --> 00:50:07,878
Speaker 3: that argument, but they go for a beer or sit

1009
00:50:07,878 --> 00:50:09,678
Speaker 3: down and have a nice glass of wine and understand.

1010
00:50:09,718 --> 00:50:12,958
Speaker 3: It's important to be able to do that, to have

1011
00:50:13,238 --> 00:50:18,158
Speaker 3: counter arguments, counter completely polar opposite kind of views of

1012
00:50:18,198 --> 00:50:19,558
Speaker 3: the world. But still at the end of the day,

1013
00:50:19,838 --> 00:50:24,038
Speaker 3: if you've had this good discussion, let's let's just agree

1014
00:50:24,038 --> 00:50:26,238
Speaker 3: to disagree at this point, let's go have that beer

1015
00:50:26,638 --> 00:50:29,478
Speaker 3: and talk about the Seinfeld episode I watched last night.

1016
00:50:30,198 --> 00:50:33,998
Speaker 1: Well, Joe, hopefully when you're getting this this this news

1017
00:50:34,038 --> 00:50:38,238
Speaker 1: fix associated that you have right that not too much

1018
00:50:38,278 --> 00:50:43,758
Speaker 1: of it is actually pundits because we've lost the what

1019
00:50:43,838 --> 00:50:47,078
Speaker 1: I call it media literacy, you know, to understand the

1020
00:50:47,158 --> 00:50:52,118
Speaker 1: difference between news and blather, because the news is presented

1021
00:50:52,198 --> 00:50:57,878
Speaker 1: as blather with these so called pundits, right, that's the danger,

1022
00:50:58,158 --> 00:51:00,798
Speaker 1: and we really have to start teaching children in school.

1023
00:51:00,918 --> 00:51:06,158
Speaker 1: I'm not being joking about this, how to differentiate, to

1024
00:51:06,278 --> 00:51:09,438
Speaker 1: use critical thinking and not just turn your brain off

1025
00:51:09,758 --> 00:51:13,598
Speaker 1: and listen to people blather with hot take opinions and

1026
00:51:13,718 --> 00:51:16,398
Speaker 1: accept that as quote unquote news that's dangerous.

1027
00:51:16,478 --> 00:51:18,918
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then and it's it's formulating opinions, and it's

1028
00:51:18,918 --> 00:51:22,198
Speaker 3: it's creating more polarity regarding what we believe in and

1029
00:51:22,518 --> 00:51:24,158
Speaker 3: who you should like or not like, who I could

1030
00:51:24,198 --> 00:51:27,478
Speaker 3: associate with or not associate with. It's that part to

1031
00:51:27,518 --> 00:51:29,598
Speaker 3: me is I'm absolutely insane. I never remember that as

1032
00:51:29,598 --> 00:51:32,198
Speaker 3: a kid, or even not even beyond kid ism when

1033
00:51:32,238 --> 00:51:34,718
Speaker 3: I became, you know, a teenager. Then you go to college.

1034
00:51:34,758 --> 00:51:37,638
Speaker 3: I never really did like somebody because they didn't agree

1035
00:51:37,718 --> 00:51:40,478
Speaker 3: with me. I mean, I don't. I've never understood that concept.

1036
00:51:40,598 --> 00:51:44,238
Speaker 3: I not at all. I've always enjoyed when somebody and

1037
00:51:44,278 --> 00:51:47,198
Speaker 3: I still do when I when somebody disagrees with me,

1038
00:51:47,238 --> 00:51:50,838
Speaker 3: I'm fine with that. I encourage it. And then eventually

1039
00:51:50,958 --> 00:51:53,398
Speaker 3: I could, you know, weigh that and say, good point,

1040
00:51:53,518 --> 00:51:56,918
Speaker 3: Maybe I need to include that in my thought process

1041
00:51:56,918 --> 00:52:00,038
Speaker 3: and my belief system. Where nah, it just reinforces exactly

1042
00:52:00,038 --> 00:52:02,358
Speaker 3: what I believe. And that's the that's the point when

1043
00:52:02,398 --> 00:52:05,478
Speaker 3: you're talking about the blad rors and the pundits as

1044
00:52:05,478 --> 00:52:08,518
Speaker 3: opposed to somebody that's responsible, and that's that's up to

1045
00:52:08,598 --> 00:52:10,718
Speaker 3: us to make our What am I seeing right here?

1046
00:52:10,718 --> 00:52:13,358
Speaker 3: What do I think this person is he is he

1047
00:52:13,438 --> 00:52:15,598
Speaker 3: a blatherer or is he a pundit, or is he

1048
00:52:15,678 --> 00:52:19,038
Speaker 3: somebody that really has give me giving it to me straight,

1049
00:52:19,118 --> 00:52:21,318
Speaker 3: looking at both sides of the world and just trying

1050
00:52:21,318 --> 00:52:23,958
Speaker 3: to keep by youse out, which is very difficult, but

1051
00:52:24,438 --> 00:52:27,678
Speaker 3: I really I attempt to do that myself, so I

1052
00:52:27,958 --> 00:52:30,518
Speaker 3: have my intent up all the time. And it's it

1053
00:52:30,518 --> 00:52:32,558
Speaker 3: all starts with baseball too. It's not just in the

1054
00:52:32,558 --> 00:52:34,718
Speaker 3: real world. I you know, we talk about other things

1055
00:52:34,758 --> 00:52:36,918
Speaker 3: going on in the game. I've seen this over the

1056
00:52:36,958 --> 00:52:40,518
Speaker 3: last at least ten to fifteen years. Is where it began,

1057
00:52:40,918 --> 00:52:46,158
Speaker 3: where it became more. You know, the groups that excuse me,

1058
00:52:46,198 --> 00:52:48,598
Speaker 3: groups that took charge, and it was always an agenda

1059
00:52:48,678 --> 00:52:52,438
Speaker 3: based from that group, and if you did not jump

1060
00:52:52,478 --> 00:52:56,918
Speaker 3: on with that particular method of thought, you were really

1061
00:52:56,998 --> 00:53:00,358
Speaker 3: thought about less and eventually taken out of there. Back

1062
00:53:00,398 --> 00:53:02,158
Speaker 3: in the day, I wanted people in the room that

1063
00:53:02,278 --> 00:53:04,958
Speaker 3: totally disagree to disagree with me to the very end.

1064
00:53:05,078 --> 00:53:09,398
Speaker 3: I want disagreement. I love disagreement. So it's part of

1065
00:53:09,398 --> 00:53:10,758
Speaker 3: the way of the world right now, and hope we

1066
00:53:10,798 --> 00:53:12,838
Speaker 3: get by that. But the end of the day, folks,

1067
00:53:12,838 --> 00:53:14,718
Speaker 3: make up your own mind, don't let anybody make it

1068
00:53:14,798 --> 00:53:15,158
Speaker 3: up for you.

1069
00:53:15,558 --> 00:53:16,918
Speaker 2: That is a quart of the day.

1070
00:53:16,958 --> 00:53:18,878
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Joe Madden as my thought of

1071
00:53:18,918 --> 00:53:20,678
Speaker 1: the day, so thanks for ending it that way.

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Speaker 2: Joe you got We'll see you next time on the

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Speaker 2: Book of.

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Speaker 3: Joe wait to wind me up. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.