1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,840 Speaker 1: I want to say in the record here that the 2 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: subject line of the calendar invite for this recording session 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: is feya callen Epstein slash Santa. It makes me wonder like, 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't that just be the ultimate kick in the face 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five that Santa Claus is on the 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Epstein list. 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 2: Well, for the record, we're not talking about Santa right 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 2: this second. That's a different episode. I want to talk 9 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: about how the FBI turned over dozens of emails to 10 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: me that revealed details about how hundreds of the Bureau's 11 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: special agents and personnel from the Freedom of Information Act 12 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: Office reviewed and processed the Epstein files earlier this year. 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: Plus the best chance forgetting the Epstein files released. Let's go. 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 2: I'm investigative journalist Jason Leopold. I spend most of my 15 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 2: days getting documents from the government. 16 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: I'm attorney Matt Tapik, and I fight them in court 17 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: to open their files when they don't want to. 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: From Bloomberg and no smiling, this is Disclosure, a podcast 19 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: about buying loose government secrets, the Freedom of Information Act, 20 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: and the the unexpected places that takes us. Now, before 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 2: we get into the documents, I recently pried loose and 22 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: the rest of it. Let's just recap what happened in 23 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 2: Epstein Land these last few weeks, so, Matt. Congress has 24 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: now passed a bill which is called the Epstein Files 25 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,279 Speaker 2: Transparency Act, that compels the Department of Justice to release 26 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: their files on Jeffrey Epstein within thirty days, and President 27 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: Trump has already signed that into law. 28 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought that the speculation about would Trump sign 29 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: it or out. What's kind of funny is like he 30 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: has the power himself to order get doj to release this. 31 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: He doesn't need Congress in order to do that. It 32 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: seems like it's taking an act of Congress to make 33 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: them do it. But it always felt a little weird 34 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: to me, like he's signing a bill that's saying do 35 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: what you ought to be doing. 36 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, he could have released this at any time by 37 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: just calling for the Justice Department to release it, which 38 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: is exactly what he has done on other high profile 39 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: political matters earlier this year. 40 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has just said that he is going to 41 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: release the files around the death of President JFK tomorrow. 42 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: The Trump administration has gone public with more than two 43 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty thousand pages of records related to doctor 44 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,839 Speaker 2: Martin Luther King Junior's assassination. But what's interesting about this 45 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: the Cepstein Transparency Act is what it allows the Justice 46 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 2: Department to do, and it allows them to withhold certain information, 47 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: particularly information within these files that could interfere with an 48 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: ongoing law enforcement investigation, which in foyle Land Matt we 49 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 2: like to refer to as the B seven A, well. 50 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: B seven A, but the investigations that would be the 51 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: predicate for that or what like. The President had requested 52 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: that Attorney General Pambindi opened some investigations into Bill Clinton 53 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: and some other Democrats or democratsretically inclined people, people that 54 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: I believe the truth Social Post or whatever it was 55 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: he posted it in like specifically referred to Democrats. So 56 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: just openly saying I want you to investigate some Democrats 57 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: about this, and. 58 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: Not surprisingly they they're going to do that, it seemed. 59 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: But that directive by Trump came one week prior to 60 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: the passage of this bill, and what we don't know 61 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: is what does an investigation like that look like? What 62 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: are they going to investigate? So Trump delivering this directive 63 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: via truth Social to Pambondi, so that means that you know, 64 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: whatever Epstein files they may have that relate to these 65 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: folks could arguably be withheld. 66 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that if they pull that, 67 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: like I mean, there's a lot of angry people already 68 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: about all this. If they now are pull the rug 69 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: out again and say, oh, you know, hardly release anything 70 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: because of these ongoing investigations, I don't know what's going 71 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: to happen. I think there's going to be a lot 72 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: of people that are going to be very upset about that. 73 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: So, Matt, this kind of gets at a fundamental question 74 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: when we talk about the release of the Epstein files. 75 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 2: When we say Epstein files, what are we actually talking about. 76 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 2: This is a guy who is investigated by federal authorities 77 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: starting around the mid two thousands. He signed a controversial 78 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: plea deal and did some light prison time, and then 79 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: he was arrested again in twenty nineteen and accused of 80 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: sex trafficking miners. And the idea is that those investigations 81 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: threw up a lot of paperwork, presumably about interviews with victims, evidence, 82 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: names of associates and co conspirators. So now with the 83 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: Epstein Files Transparency Act, there's going to be a lot 84 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: of discussion of what gets released and what may get withheld. 85 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: So the point of this, Matt, is that over the 86 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: past year, I've been doing some document requests and following 87 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 2: some other FOYA actions related to Epstein, and it all 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: helps us get a handle on what's in the Epstein 89 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 2: files and how the government has been handling them. And 90 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: as you know, Matt, this has been building since Trump 91 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: took office again in January. A lot of Trump's supporters 92 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: want this information out in the public, and Trump seemed 93 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: to say during the campaign that he'd do that, but 94 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 2: by the summer that was looking less likely. So in July, 95 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: the Justice Department and FBI released a joint statement that said, 96 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: it is the determination of the Department of Justice and 97 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 2: the Federal Bureau of Investigation that no further disclosure would 98 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 2: be appropriate or warranted. Q. The outrage, Yeah. 99 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: Right, I mean, there are a lot of people for 100 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: whom this is the most important issue in American politics 101 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: right now. Well, and you're just telling them, yeah, we 102 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: changed our mind, there's nothing to see here, move on. 103 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is the biggest political story of the year. 104 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 2: So earlier this year I found a wide ranging Foyer 105 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: request for everything related to the processing of the Epstein files. 106 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: I was really interested in how the records were processed, 107 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 2: and I was even more interested did within the context 108 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: of how everything went down with the rollout of the 109 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: Epstein files earlier this year. What I was hoping was 110 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 2: to get a look at what was going on behind 111 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 2: closed doors with the Epstein records going back to the 112 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: beginning of the new administration. And remember, Matt just a 113 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: few weeks after Trump was inaugurated back in February, his 114 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 2: brand new Attorney General, Pam Bondi, calls a group of 115 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: right wing influencers to the White House for an event 116 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 2: because she has something to give them. They walked out 117 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: of the White House holding binders and hands them binders. 118 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 2: Look at what we got today, Let's say Epstein Files 119 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: Phase one. See that right there, that's the Epstein files. 120 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: Bondy has this kind of grand rollout, and so shortly thereafter, 121 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I want to say more like I'm almost 122 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 2: immediately thereafter, the MAGA crowd goes nuts. We frankly assumed 123 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 2: this had at least some smoking guns. And now it's 124 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: a backlash. That's not what's in this binder at all. 125 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: It's a backlash against Bondi. It's a backlash against the FBI. 126 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 1: It is the biggest disappointment I think that you'll. 127 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: Find, because it turns out that these documents that were 128 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 2: in the binder had been previously released in court cases 129 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: and previously released by the FBI. So it ignited a firestorm. 130 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: This is kind of their own folks, right, they invite 131 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: all these people that are kind of from the MAGA world, 132 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: and they do they think they're so stupid that they're 133 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: not going to realize that these documents have already be 134 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: outed and out there. I mean, of course folks are 135 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: going to pick over every document. And like, I was 136 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: this just incompetence or was it? Did they were they 137 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: trying to pull a fast one? Or well I don't 138 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: think they actually pulled a fast one. 139 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: I don't. I just don't think they actually even looked 140 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: at any of the files they were going to release. 141 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 2: And so what happened after that is Bondi, who had 142 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: been really embarrassed by this, fires off a letter a 143 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 2: letter to FBI Director Cash Paatel the AG demanding the 144 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 2: release of the bureau's full and complete Epstein files. 145 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: So she's throwing Cash Patel kind of under the bus here, like, hey, 146 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: what are you guys doing. 147 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: This stuff has already been released exactly, and she kind 148 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: of blamed him for this. She says, I repeatedly questioned 149 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: whether this was the full set of documents responsive to 150 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: my request, and as she later explains on Fox. 151 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 3: News, you're looking at these documents, going, these aren't all 152 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 3: the Epstein files. 153 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: Bondi's letter to Patel goes on to say that she 154 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: knows there are more Epstein documents. She writes she has 155 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 2: a source in the FBI field office in New York 156 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 2: who told her so, and. 157 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 3: So a source said, ohoh, all this evidence is sitting 158 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 3: in the Southern District of New York's shock. 159 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 2: So she then tells Cash Ptel that he has until 160 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: February twenty eighth to have the FBI deliver the full 161 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 2: and complete Epstein files to her office. 162 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 3: And we got hopefully all of them Friday at eight am, 163 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,359 Speaker 3: thousands of pages of documents. 164 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 2: And she goes on to say that she wants a 165 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: full investigation as to why her order to the FBI 166 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 2: originally wasn't followed. 167 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 3: Cash is going to get me and himself really a 168 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 3: detailed report as to why all these documents and evidence 169 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 3: had been withheld, and you know, we're going to go 170 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 3: through it, go through it as fast as we can. 171 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: So, Matt, as you know, I actually asked for that 172 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: detailed report, but they withheld it under a FOYA exemption. 173 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 2: But as I reported earlier this year for Bloomberg, after 174 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 2: all this happens, cash Ptel directs FBI agents from the 175 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 2: New York Field Office, the Washington d C. Field Office, 176 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 2: and personnel from the Records Information Dissemination Section or RIZ. 177 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: Those are the folks that process FOYER requests. And they 178 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 2: were all holed up in a facility in Virginia which 179 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 2: is called the Central Records Complex. So what do I 180 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 2: mean by processing. Well, when reviewing doc documents for a 181 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: ventral release, FOYA officers have to determine what can be 182 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: released and what needs to be withheld using nine exemptions 183 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: under the FOYA. For example, they would withhold information based 184 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: on someone's personal privacy or an ongoing investigation. And they 185 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 2: begin processing these EPSTEIN files right they're they're they're pulling 186 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 2: all nighters, they're you know, working twenty hour shifts just 187 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: to process the Epstein files. So I was really interested 188 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: in what was taking place. Behind the scenes, you know, 189 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: how these requests were processed, how much money they spent 190 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 2: on FBI personnel. 191 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: So this is like a this is like a meta request, 192 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: right like you're you're trying to get it's a foya 193 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: about a foya. Yes, So most agencies, as they're processing requests, 194 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: they have some kind of a database that they keep 195 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: track of all the steps received, request forwarded to analyst, 196 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: analyst rans search forty two thousand, search results narrowed with 197 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: search terms sent, extension, letter to request, or like all 198 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: those little details from a lot of agencies get tracked 199 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: in some kind of a centralized database, and we usually 200 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: refer to those as processing. 201 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 2: Those And that's informative because you sort of learn how 202 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 2: these requests are processed and maybe even you know, learn 203 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 2: about a record keeping system. So I find that to 204 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: be good information to get insight into how the agency 205 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: is handling a foyer request. 206 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me of like the updates or 207 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: texts I get from United Airlines about what's going on 208 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: with my checked bag. Like it'll say like it's like 209 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: through the screening, you've been loaded onto the plane. It's 210 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: like it's on the cart, you know. Yeah, but about 211 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: way more detail than that. 212 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: So I filed multiple Foyer requests over the summer, and 213 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 2: then Bloomberg sued to compel the really piece of these records, 214 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 2: and recently the FBI released about sixty pages of emails 215 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: and other documents I asked for related to the processing 216 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: in the Epstein files. So what do you get. We 217 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 2: have a bunch of emails and they're kind of heavily redacted, 218 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: but there is still a lot of info in here, 219 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: and there's some real interesting takeaways here. 220 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: So let's go through the timeline here. So where does 221 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: the story of the emails begin. 222 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: It begins in March, early March twenty twenty five this year. 223 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: There's an email here from the assistant director of the 224 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 2: Information Management Division stated March tenth, and it says that 225 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 2: we are prepared to receive boxes tomorrow as New York 226 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: agents are traveling to the Washington Field office in the 227 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: morning and will arrive to Winchester, that's the location of 228 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: the Central Records Complex, where they will start photographing and 229 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: we will start scanning and processing the physical files. Why 230 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: do you think that they were photographing the files? 231 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting because like regular paper documents, you would 232 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: think they would just scan them, you wouldn't need to 233 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: photograph them. It suggests that potentially there's some things that 234 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: aren't like documents, Like there could be physical evidence, right, 235 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: there could be a. 236 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 2: Right, it could be anything. It could be a beer bottle, 237 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:38,319 Speaker 2: it could be a hair brush, you know whatever. 238 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, they might be taking photos of those physical items 239 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: that you can't scan, but we're just kind of guessing 240 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: at that at least for now. 241 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. The email goes on to say, once I see 242 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: the volume, I'll have a better estimate of processing times. 243 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: Although I suggest we do a rolling delivery to further 244 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 2: demonstrate the FBI's commitment to delivery and transparency. Yeah. Interesting, 245 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's just funny because the FBI 246 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: wants to demonstrate to the DOJ that its commitment to transparency. 247 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: It also says, by the way, in this email, and 248 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: again this very early is March tenth, so it says 249 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: that you know, in a meeting with the Criminal Division 250 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: in New York and Washington Field offices, there were questions 251 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 2: on the types of reactions the FBI should apply to 252 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 2: these files, and then there's like just a really long 253 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: redaction box. 254 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: So do we know anything from these emails about like 255 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: what kinds of records the FBI was reviewing. 256 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean we do. And it's kind 257 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 2: of fascinating. So on one page, they're discussing FBI search 258 00:14:52,160 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 2: warrant execution photos, FBI interview videos, Julaine Maxwell's prison security footage, 259 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: time lapsed video footage from an office, and in parentheses 260 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: it says no persons identified and no crimes observed, street 261 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 2: surveillance footage, aerial footage from FBI search warrant execution, police 262 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: interview videos. 263 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: And you're just salivating. See you're like, oh man, oh yeah, 264 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: I gotta get this stuff. 265 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: And marketing videos, marketing videos, marketing videos. I mean, this 266 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: is what's this is what's identifying? Do we not know? 267 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: I don't know marketing videos, Yeah, it's it's that like, 268 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: is that. 269 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: Mister Epstein's like, come visit my island kind of marketing videos? 270 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I'm trying to figure out 271 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 2: what marketing videos. Yeah. Oh. Actually, the other thing that's 272 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 2: here is they're discussing the prison video of Epstein before 273 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: he was found dead and after he was found dead, 274 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 2: and they discussed this video and eight terabytes of data 275 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 2: related to Epstein, so that is some thing that they 276 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: were looking at as well. 277 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: So do these documents tell us anything about sort of 278 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: the interactions between FBI and DJ, because, like you know, 279 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: this is a little bit of a tense This is 280 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: after the binders that really weren't anything new, right, So 281 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: like you got a little bit of an awkward relationship 282 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: between the FBI and the DJ. Are they communicating with 283 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: each other at all? Here? 284 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: Great question? I mean, in these records, it does not 285 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: appear that they're communicating. And in fact, there's one email 286 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: that asked the question of did you happen to send 287 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: the results of the below review to DJ at any point? 288 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: And the response is we definitely did not provide anything 289 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: to DJ, just to HQ headquarters. So it doesn't appear. 290 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: And this just may be the fact that it's early 291 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: at least in these documents that the FBI released, that 292 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: there's no communication with DJ. But I also want to 293 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: know that the FBI did withhold one hundred and sixty 294 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 2: pages in its entirety. 295 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so not a ton about the DOJ FBI relationship. 296 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: So do we learn anything about like did they do 297 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: this in phases? Like, how did they structure the processing? Yeah, 298 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: I see reference to like phase one in phase two. 299 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so another document here. You know, again this 300 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: is all in March, and I think what's noteworthy is 301 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 2: the bulk of the work was taking place in March. 302 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: You know, almost one thousand FBI agents in personnel working 303 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: during the month of March. Just plowing through these records. 304 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: You know, there's an email on Sunday, March twenty third, 305 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, six forty three pm, so you can 306 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 2: already see that they're working on the weekends. Right stand by, 307 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 2: we have identified more files requiring phase one review. Please 308 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 2: continue to refresh as files will be populated momentarily. 309 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: So do we know anything about what those phases mean? 310 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: Now? Unfortunately the documents don't describe what those phases refer 311 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 2: to what it actually means. 312 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: And it looks like so then upon completion of Phase two, 313 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: the FBI is going to provide what they call see 314 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: through redaction files for DOJ review, which to me reads 315 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: like FBI is doing the work of identifying what to redect, 316 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 1: but they're giving it to DOJ so DJ can see 317 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: what the plan. 318 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 2: Is is that how you read that? That's how exactly 319 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 2: how I read that? 320 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: So Jason, in March, they're doing all this processing, So 321 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: what's the next kind of big thing that happens. 322 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 2: Well, the next big thing, at least according to these emails, 323 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 2: is April fifteenth, the tax day. An email goes out 324 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: to FBI personnel that says cash Patel quote asked for 325 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 2: status of all remaining Epstein related reviews. Makes sense, Yeah, 326 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 2: it makes sense. But there's no response to that email. 327 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 2: But Ptel is weighing in, right, The director of the 328 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 2: FBI wants an update. Where are we at, you know, 329 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 2: with the Epstein files? So when do they finish the review? 330 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 2: So it appears around May second is when they kind 331 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 2: of wrap things up. An FBI employee from the New 332 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 2: York Field office sends an email and attached a document 333 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: titled Epstein Overview Final that summarize their work. Well do 334 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 2: we what does? What does it say? Unfortunately, you know, 335 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 2: the FBI withheld the attachment. No, so they withheld those 336 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: attachments citing a number of different FOYA exemptions such as 337 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: attorney client privilege, the deliberative process, and others. 338 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: So they're taunting you. They're taunting you by telling you 339 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: what's there, but that you can't have it? 340 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 2: Can I tell you that? As I'm reading these files 341 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: and the subject lines refer to a PowerPoint or a document, 342 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: I'm like clicking. I'm clicking to see if there's any 343 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 2: chance that like it will magically open up. Did not. 344 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: It did not, Bummer, But importantly to me, like this 345 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 2: is the biggest standout on these records. So I asked 346 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 2: how much money they spent on overtime, for example, for 347 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: agents who are tasked with processing these records. So go 348 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: to page fourteen of the release. 349 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm looking at it. It's a chart and 350 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: then the division name column says Business Strategy and Analytics Section, 351 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: Counterintelligence Division, counter Terrorism Division, Criminal Investigative Division, Cyberdivision, Directorate 352 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: of Intelligence EAD, Information and Technology Branch, Finance and Facilities Division, 353 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 1: Human Resources Division, and then everything else is withheld for 354 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: secret investigative techniques that if released would harm some future investigations. 355 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: So these are all the divisions that were involved in 356 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 2: the review of the STEAM files. And how do we 357 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: know that because the government released an index of what 358 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 2: I requested and the FBI document types is how they 359 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: refer to it. And this is a resource planning office. 360 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 2: That's an office within the FBI report that documents the 361 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 2: premium pay hours and premium pay is overtime, nighttime, differential hours, 362 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: but more or less, you could think of it as overtime, 363 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: and it's the number of hours they recorded on this project, right, 364 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 2: That's how they refer to it. The Epstein files. They 365 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 2: refer to as as a special redaction project. And it's 366 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 2: during the period of March seventeen through March twenty second, 367 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 2: so five or six days, right. 368 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: So they're withholding from you the total amount of pay 369 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: across each of those, but they are giving you the 370 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: grand total of employees worked premium pay hours total in 371 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: premium expenses. So they just did not want to give 372 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: you the breakdown. I guess on the theory that somehow 373 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: you could interfere with an investigation if they knew the 374 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: specifics of how they staffed. 375 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 2: This up, but you at least know the totals. Yeah, 376 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 2: and those totals are kind of stunning. There were nine 377 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty four employees that were involved in the 378 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: processing and review of the Epstein files, fourteen thousand and 379 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: two hundred and seventy eight premium pay hours worked for 380 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 2: a total of eight hundred and fifty one thousand, three 381 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: hundred and forty four dollars that the FBI spent on 382 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 2: premium pay during the March seventeenth and March twenty second 383 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 2: review of these files. I mean, that's a lot of money. 384 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 2: That seems like a ton of money to me for 385 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 2: the FBI to spend all this. I mean it wasn't 386 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 2: a national emergency. Well, it depends who you ask, Yeah, true. 387 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: I mean I think there's a sizeable number of people, 388 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: and I think they probably are skewing towards Trump supporters, 389 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: for whom like this is like right, So I'm looking 390 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: at these numbers. I'm seeing eight hundred and fifty thousand, 391 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: and that's just the overtime. So you know, it's possible 392 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: that the overtime might only be like maybe half of 393 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: the total cost, So you could easily be looking at 394 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: like a couple million dollars total. The people are just working, 395 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: which means they're not in the field investigating crimes. They're 396 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: not in the office processing Jason's other Foyer requests. Like 397 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: it's sort of they drop everything. This is what they're doing, 398 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: and all this work gets done and then Pam Bondi 399 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: says there's nothing to see here, so nothing more is 400 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: going to get released, right, So it sounds like by 401 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: May second they've pretty much wrapped up. And then in 402 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: May DOJ tells Trump that his name appears in the documents. 403 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the timing of it. And shortly thereafter, you know, 404 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: we have this unsigned memo saying that they collected three 405 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 2: hundred gigabytes of data, which is video, photographs, actual documents, 406 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: and none of that, not a single document from that 407 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 2: trove can be released. 408 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: All right, Well, the clock is ticking on the thirty 409 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: day Epstein Transparency Act deadline. So I guess that work 410 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: wasn't a waste because it's gonna probably come in pretty handy, 411 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. It's a good thing that they already did 412 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: all this back in the summer. Hopefully we're gonna start 413 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: seeing some more stuff. 414 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 2: I want to segue into what may be in the 415 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 2: Epstein files. So earlier this year, I wrote about the 416 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 2: under the Radar Freedom of Information Act lawsuit that was 417 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 2: filed back in I think it was twenty seventeen. It's 418 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 2: nearly nine year old lawsuit that an attorney named Dan 419 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: Novak filed on behalf of a reporter for what was 420 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 2: Radar magazine at the time this foil lawsuit that he filed. 421 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: They were trying to get at that time all of 422 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 2: the FBI's Epstein files. And in this lawsuit that had 423 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 2: been going on now for nearly nine years, the FBI 424 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 2: released about twelve hundred pages of documents. And these are 425 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 2: the twelve hundred pages more or less that have been 426 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: screenshotted and shared on social media. And is this the 427 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 2: same stuff that was in the famous binders? Yeah, exactly 428 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: where people who've been following this are like, what is 429 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: this trash? We've already seen this, right, that's exactly right. 430 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 2: So here's what happened. I dig into this case and 431 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: the FBI and the Justice Department essentially withheld the vast 432 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: majority of records, at least ten thousand plus pages, because 433 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: of an ongoing investigation. I should go back and say 434 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 2: they denied the request before they moved to a lawsuit. 435 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: They said to the reporter that you need to have 436 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 2: a privacy waiver. You need to get Epstein to sign 437 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: a privacy waiver before returning over right, And he's. 438 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: Still alive then in twenty seven, Yeah. 439 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 2: He's still alive. So they're going down the road of 440 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: privacy waiver and a privacy excemption. They sue, right, and 441 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 2: so you know how it is. I mean, we both 442 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 2: know how it is. This is dragging out for a while, 443 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 2: but this is really long. This is really it's really long. 444 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: The next thing, you know, what happens is fast forwarding here. 445 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 2: But Epstein gets arrested and so now everything is being 446 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 2: withheld under B seven eight and ongoing law enforced. Right, 447 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 2: So they're not getting anything. They're still arguing, going back 448 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 2: and forth. So these folks just continuously hit roadblocks and 449 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 2: roadblocks and roadblocks and they're just unable to pry anything loose. 450 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 2: But they're fighting. They're continuing to fight, right. I respect that. 451 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: It's nice to hear you not be med at other 452 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: PEO people making Foyer requests and filing lawsuits. 453 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I like when other people file Foy 454 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 2: requests and lawsuits, as long as it's not for the 455 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: same records. I want fair. So I go into the 456 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: docket of this Foyle lawsuit that Radar filed trying to 457 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: make these Epstein documents public, and on the docket is 458 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: what's called a Vaughn index. This specific document is very 459 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 2: important as far as the Epstein files are concerned. But 460 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: before we get into that, Matt, can you explain what 461 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 2: a Vaughn index is and the old Foyle lawsuit that 462 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: gave rise to it. 463 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: Yes, Jason, it comes from a case called Vaughn versus Rosen, 464 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: and I think kind of like the nineteen seventies, and 465 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: what used to happen is agencies would withhold a bunch 466 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: of stuff and then they would just dump all the 467 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: documents on the court in the lawsuit and be like, 468 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: here you go, court, you tell us it's called in 469 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: camera review, like where the court in chambers, not in 470 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: public reviews these documents. So agencies were just kind of 471 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: like dumping all this stuff, and eventually the courts you're like, yeah, 472 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: we're not cool with that. You've got to make an 473 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: index of what all these documents are, just describe them, 474 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: at least in some level of generality, and identify the 475 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,360 Speaker 1: specific exemptions that you're claiming for each one of those. 476 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: So that has become known as a Vaughn index. So 477 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,719 Speaker 1: it's what it sounds like. It's a listing of all 478 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: the documents. And sometimes the Vaughn index can have a 479 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: whole lot of interesting information even if you can't get 480 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: the documents right. 481 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 2: And we've received many Vaughan indices in our l lawsuits. Yeah, routinely. Yeah, 482 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 2: and they're extremely to me, it's extremely valuable just to 483 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 2: even have a general overview of what the documents are 484 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 2: that they're worth holding. 485 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: So I was talking to who and when they're talking, like, 486 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: even if you don't know what they're saying, it can 487 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: be really interesting like oh, this person was involved or huh, 488 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: that timing is really interesting as to when things were happening. 489 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: And you can usually get those kinds of details. 490 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like their news were then you 491 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 2: could write a story out of it. You have written 492 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 2: stories out of it. Oh yeah, I thought this one 493 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 2: was really important. And it doesn't seem like anyone you know, 494 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 2: even knew it was out there. It had some pretty 495 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: i'm good detail of what the documents are that the 496 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 2: FBI had as it relates to Jeffrey Epstein, And obviously 497 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: it's a sliver, but what would be in the Epstein 498 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 2: files that are now supposed to be released. And the 499 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 2: index says that the FBI processed but withheld information it 500 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 2: obtained from confidential sources, letters addressed to then US Attorney 501 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: for the Southern District to Florida, alex Acosta. He was 502 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 2: the one that ultimately authorized that non prosecution agreement with 503 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein. Subpoenas to MySpace, remember my space? Oh yeah, 504 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 2: that's specifically in this Vaughn index. The handwritten notes of 505 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 2: FBI agents, photographs, grand jury subpoenas is all listed out 506 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 2: in the index. Yeah, and bank records communications with foreign 507 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 2: government agencies. I thought that was really really interesting. Of course, 508 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 2: there are three O two's tell everyone of FBI three 509 00:29:59,480 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 2: O two. 510 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: Is FBI three H two is a summary of an 511 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: FBI interview with someone. 512 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 2: So in this Vaughn index, so I counted, right, because 513 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: it describes the three H twos here. And mind you, 514 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 2: this index relates to the investigation that the Justice Department 515 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 2: and FBI took on between two thousand and six, and 516 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 2: you know when fsc and pleaded guilty in two thousand 517 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 2: and eight. So I counted, and it reveals that the 518 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: FBI conducted at lease according to this Vond index, fifty 519 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 2: five interviews with witnesses, victims, potential investigative targets, and importantly, 520 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 2: bank records so you know, I'm hoping we get a 521 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 2: chance to see those. But here's what I like really 522 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: zeroed in on is that it shows that some of 523 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 2: the documents that were processed and withheld from Radar Magazine 524 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 2: are from twenty eleven and include dozens of photographs and agents, 525 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: interview summaries of third parties, and documents provided to the 526 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: FBI by confidential sources. 527 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: That's twenty eleven, twenty eleven, you get charged in twenty nineteen. 528 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: No, so we're only talking about the first investigation right 529 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: two thousand and six through two thousand and eight. But 530 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: it looks like the FBI never really closed it is 531 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 2: that it remained active because there's documents from twenty eleven. 532 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: So I just wanted to get your take on this, 533 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 2: because we've dealt with the FBI a lot. Do you 534 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 2: think that people may have just been coming in and 535 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 2: just collecting evidence and submitting it to the investigative file 536 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 2: or could this be kind of evidence that the FBI 537 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 2: still had an active investigation in twenty eleven, three years 538 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 2: after Epstein had pled guilty and at that point was 539 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 2: already out of jail. 540 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: I mean, that's pretty hard to tell. I mean wouldn't 541 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: surprise me if victims and others continued to come to 542 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: the FBI for good reason dissatisfied with the minimal punishment 543 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: that he had gotten to that point. In whether the 544 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: FBI did anything with that, we really don't know unless 545 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: the Vaughan Index shows like more activity at the time. 546 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: But if all you have is like a listing of 547 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of three h twos of witness interviews, that 548 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: it's hard to really say if they were actively investigating 549 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: or just sort of passively receiving information. 550 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, And based on my reporting, the FBI doesn't 551 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: typically close investigations. They're sort of keeping it open. That's 552 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: just my experience, right. 553 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: For in these circumstances, that would make perfect sense. 554 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't see anything in the Vaughn Index 555 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,959 Speaker 2: that indicated there was like a case closing memorandum, an 556 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: actual document there. So I dug into this over the summer. 557 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 2: This was during that time where everyone was just kind 558 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 2: of clamoring these Epstein files because this was immediately after 559 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 2: the Justice Department FBI said we're not going to release anything. 560 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 2: So now Radar Magazine is eight years into its lawsuit 561 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 2: to get the Epstein records. At this point, they know 562 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 2: the FBI has reviewed the records, and the FBI and 563 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: the DOJ say they're not going to release more records. 564 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 2: So the Radar lawsuit has some new urgency. It looks 565 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 2: like they have a pretty clear path to say you 566 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: have to release the records. But then Julaine Maxwell appeals 567 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: her case Dlayne Maxwell. We now see that her attorney 568 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 2: renewing his requests for the Supreme Court to overturn her conviction. 569 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 2: So there's Radar Magazine again with like ah Man. This 570 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 2: is still an ongoing law enforcement proceeding, so they still 571 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 2: can't get anything. And now that the Supreme Court has 572 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 2: rejected Maxwell's petition, Dan Novak and Radar Magazine has now 573 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 2: appealed to the Second Circuit and so there's an oral 574 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 2: argument set for January twenty eighth. So I still think, Matt, 575 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 2: I just want to see what you think this Foyer 576 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: case is the best actually the best chance of getting 577 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 2: anything from the Epstein Files versus Congress's Epstein Files Transparency Act. Yeah. 578 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 2: I think for a couple reasons. 579 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: I mean, first, I think that the Vaughn Index is 580 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: going to be a check on whatever gets released, like 581 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: if you see that there's things on the Vaughn Index 582 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: that don't get released, then there's some splaining to do. Right, 583 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,919 Speaker 1: but the lawsuit also has teeth. The Epstein Act has 584 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: no teeth. If DOJ decides to violate it, there's no 585 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: private cause of action. You and I can't file a 586 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: lawsuit over that. You need to have a Foyer case. 587 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: And so so that case could end up being the 588 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: legal vehicle by which the Epstein Act release actually gets challenged. 589 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many twists and turns to this, 590 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: and like people get charged, and people die, and it 591 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: impacts what can be with helld or not, and it's 592 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 1: up and down on appeal and all this stuff going on. 593 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: And so that's got to be frustrating to go after 594 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: that long. But now it's it's it almost turns out 595 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: it does turn out that, like it's great, rightly there 596 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,399 Speaker 1: is a live, active Foya case right now that can 597 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: be the vehicle by which if the DOJ is trying 598 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: to get away with withholding things. 599 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 2: That's how they can be held accountable for that. 600 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: In how we can courts can guarantee in the public 601 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: can guarantee that they're actually releasing everything that they're supposed 602 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: to release because the track record ain't that great so far. 603 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 2: That's kind of how I felt as well. It's like, 604 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 2: this is really the best course of action for the 605 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 2: public to kind of see what's going on. It will 606 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:27,919 Speaker 2: be interesting if the government argues that, well, Donald Trump 607 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,919 Speaker 2: is now called for an investigation into Democrats, so we're 608 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 2: going to keep withholding is because of an ongoing investigation. 609 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's you know, I mean, it depends on 610 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: how bold they are on trying to make those with holding. 611 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: And I think they're given the memo from July. I 612 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: was representing you right now in a case on this, 613 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,919 Speaker 1: and they said, oh, well, there's these investigations, I think 614 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: you can make dogument that's a sham. They already said 615 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: that there isn't any predicate to investigate anybody else. 616 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 2: That's right, and doj and FBI, I said in their 617 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 2: joint statement from July quote, there was also no credible 618 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 2: evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of 619 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: his actions. We did not uncover evidence that could predicate 620 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 2: an investigation against uncharged third party. 621 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: So the fact that they're now claiming they're going to 622 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: do investigation it's not a real investigation, so it doesn't 623 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,360 Speaker 1: count for foya purposes. That's how I would argue that, 624 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,280 Speaker 1: I don't know some you know, I think there's a fair. 625 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 2: Chance of succeeding on that, but no guarantees. I mean, 626 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 2: the timing couldn't be better for Radar magazine, right, they 627 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 2: file this back in twenty seventeen, so they're coming up 628 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 2: on nine years. That's a really long time. But man, 629 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 2: the fact that they're still fighting at this very moment, 630 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: where the Epstein files have become the biggest political story 631 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 2: of the year, that's wild. So, as I mentioned, there's 632 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 2: a hearing in the Second Circuit, an oral argument that's 633 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 2: scheduled for January twenty eighth. And let me just let me, 634 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 2: let me just explain. 635 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: So that's the Court of Appeals that covers the trial 636 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: courts that are in New York and some other adjacent states. 637 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: The country is divided into a series of different regional 638 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: courts of appeals, so it's above the trial court and 639 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:19,919 Speaker 1: it's before the Supreme Court. 640 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 2: An oral argument. 641 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: Explain it, man, oral argument is the parties have filed 642 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: their briefs and then they come in and they answer 643 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: the judges questions and they make their arguments and those 644 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: are open to the public. I got a feeling that 645 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: it's going to be a packed court room with overflow rooms. 646 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's interesting because it's coming, you know, it's 647 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 2: happening right after kind of the deadline for when the 648 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 2: Justice Department is supposed to turn over everything in the 649 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,439 Speaker 2: Epstein files. So I just want to ask you this question, Matt. 650 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 2: So let's say the Justice Department does turn over everything 651 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 2: in the Epstein files to Congress, as they are required 652 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 2: to do under the law. Would those same records be 653 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 2: responsive to this FOIL lawsuit. 654 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: Well, the scope of that request was, like all records 655 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: from the FBI's investigation, right, all documents relating to the 656 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,479 Speaker 1: FBI's investigation and prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein. Now they made 657 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: their request in twenty seventeen. Yeah, there could be a 658 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: dispute about whether documents after that date get included or not. 659 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it certainly would be cut off. At whatever 660 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: point the FBI searched then that would typically be the cutoff. 661 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's the date of the request. Sometimes it's whenever 662 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 1: they do the search. So there could be some later stuff, 663 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: like you know, because he When did he When did 664 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 1: he die? Twenty nineteen, twenty nineteen. Yeah, so there's a 665 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: couple of years there, two thousand nine, a. 666 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 2: Little bit of there, maybe a little bit of indulgent. Well, 667 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 2: I guess we'll see what happens whether or not the 668 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 2: Justice Department releases the Epstein files to Congress, And I 669 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 2: guess we'll see what happens in late January in the 670 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 2: Radar Foil lawsuit for the FBI files. An upstick from 671 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 2: Bloomberg and No Smiling. This is Disclosure. The show is 672 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 2: hosted by Matt Topic and me Jason Leopold. It's produced 673 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 2: by Heather Schroing and Sean Cannon for No Smiling. Our 674 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 2: editor for Bloomberg is Jeff Grocott. Our executive producers for 675 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 2: Bloomberg are Sage Bauman and me Jason Leopold, and our 676 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 2: executive producers for No Smiling are Sean Cannon, Heather Schrowing, 677 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 2: and Matt Topic. The Disclosure theme song is by Nick, 678 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 2: with additional music by Nick An Epidemic Sound. Sound design 679 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 2: and mixing is by Sean Cannon. For more transparency news 680 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 2: and important document thumps, you can subscribe to my WEEKLYFOYA 681 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 2: Files newsletter at bloomberg dot com slash Foya files that's 682 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 2: Foia files. To get every episode early on Apple podcasts, 683 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 2: become a Bloomberg dot com subscriber today. Check out our 684 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 2: special intro offer right now now at bloomberg dot com 685 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 2: Slash podcast offer, or click the link in the show notes. 686 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 2: You'll also unlock deep reporting data and analysis from reporters 687 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 2: around the world. We'll see you again next Tuesday. Okay, 688 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 2: opening the link. Do do Do Do Do Do Do 689 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 2: Do