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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Three little girls are dead.

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Speaker 1: Eight months later, we still don't have a suspect. Why

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Speaker 1: what is the problem in Cass County, Texas? These three

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Speaker 1: little girls ages five, eight, and nine. Not only they,

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Speaker 1: but their mother needs answers. I Nancy Grace, this is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 1: Fox Nation and series XM one eleven. There's very very

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Speaker 1: little coverage regarding the deaths of these three girls. Why.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine the media would be on this like

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Speaker 1: a cheap suit. Why is that not happening? Why have

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Speaker 1: their death gone unsolved? Let's just start at the beginning.

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Speaker 1: Here's our friends at Crime Online. Shoanmanique Oliver Wickerson is

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Speaker 1: a hard working woman. She spends her days taking care

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Speaker 1: of her six children, the loves of her life. Then

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Speaker 1: she trades in her mom apron and puts on her

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Speaker 1: nurses outfit and heads to work with the second love

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Speaker 1: of her life as a certified Nurse's Aid. Her work

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Speaker 1: as a CNA is very rewarding and bravery. As her friends,

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Speaker 1: caller loves the work. The Friday night shift is going

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Speaker 1: like many others have until about nine o'clock. That's when

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Speaker 1: the nightmare begins and Shoumanique gets a phone call that

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Speaker 1: will change her life and that of her entire family forever.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now is the mother of these three

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Speaker 1: beautiful little girls. And I say beautiful, I mean beautiful

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Speaker 1: on the outside and on the insight too, Miss Wickerson,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I know you're known

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Speaker 1: at work where you work as a nurses aid is

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Speaker 1: Bree Bree. I'm just imagining you at work that night

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Speaker 1: with your colleagues turned friends when you get a phone call.

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Speaker 1: What were you told on that call? Do you remember

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Speaker 1: being told, hey, you got a call three us. Now?

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Speaker 1: When I got the call, the only thing my cousin

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Speaker 1: had said was that my kids were missing. He didn't

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Speaker 1: pul saying which hid or how many kids? He just

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Speaker 1: said kids, meaning me thinking all my kids. What were

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Speaker 1: you doing at the moment that call came. I was

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Speaker 1: changing a resident at the time, and then you walked

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Speaker 1: to the phone at the nurses station, just ma'am. When

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Speaker 1: you got the knees from your cousin that some of

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Speaker 1: your children were missing, what went through your mind immediately?

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Speaker 1: Like how did they end up missing? When they was

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Speaker 1: in the house? Why are you just not calling me.

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't you be calling on one one first then

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Speaker 1: calling me, Just all these thoughts colliding in your head

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Speaker 1: at the same time. When did you see the children last?

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Speaker 1: When I called them around five or six o'clock that

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Speaker 1: they when I was at work and I talked to

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Speaker 1: my kids, they were sitting down eating in my room,

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Speaker 1: watching TV on the floor. So this is in July,

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Speaker 1: the end of July, so they're on summer break. You

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Speaker 1: are all in your room, your bedroom at home, just ma'am,

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Speaker 1: and everybody's eating and watching TV, and you're all there

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Speaker 1: together before you go to work to give them. That

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Speaker 1: reminds me so much of growing up my dad, or

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Speaker 1: as he called it, the second trick, sometimes it was

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Speaker 1: the third trick, just depending on what he got that

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Speaker 1: week at the railroad, and we would all try to

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Speaker 1: eat quickly for him to go to work, or when

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Speaker 1: my mom would have to go to work at night.

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Speaker 1: I'm just imagining that moment, and that was set around

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Speaker 1: five to six pm. Correct, That was the time that

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Speaker 1: I was at word because I had left or work

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Speaker 1: around and wing to clomb that afternoon. Oh oh, you

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Speaker 1: spoke to them at five to six on the phone, yes, ma'am,

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Speaker 1: and everything was fine, yes, ma'am. Okay, what were they saying?

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Speaker 1: Were they planning to stay at the house or were

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Speaker 1: they going to go outside and play go down the

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Speaker 1: street to a friend's house. What did they say when

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Speaker 1: you talked to them between five and six o'clock. I

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Speaker 1: had asked them what they was going to do. They

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Speaker 1: was going to stand the house, finished eating watching TV

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Speaker 1: tangle Bow because it was getting dark. So they know

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Speaker 1: not to go outside when it gets dark. We don't

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Speaker 1: have a light outside, so they knew to say in

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Speaker 1: the house. What were the ages of the children. I

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Speaker 1: have a daughter that was ten at the time, a

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Speaker 1: nine year old, an eight year old, a three year old,

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Speaker 1: and a one year old that's five, and then I

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Speaker 1: had a seven year old. Okay, all right, so they're

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Speaker 1: all there and they know what to do. I mean

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Speaker 1: I remember with both my parents working, we knew what

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Speaker 1: to do. We didn't go run around the neighborhood. We

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Speaker 1: didn't go right on our bikes. We stayed inside, had

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Speaker 1: the doors locked, did homework, took a bath, watch TV,

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Speaker 1: and waited for my mom and dad to come home.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we never really even thought of going outside.

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Speaker 1: We knew were weren't supposed to, so your children understood

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Speaker 1: what to do, and you checked in with them between

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Speaker 1: five and six pm. Now, what time were you supposed

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Speaker 1: to be home that night? I postedly got off at

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Speaker 1: ten o'clock that night. And how far away was the

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Speaker 1: nursing home where you worked from your home from Atlanta

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Speaker 1: to Picture, Canada. I think that's not about a twenty

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Speaker 1: five minute drive, Okay, So twenty five minutes, so as

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Speaker 1: soon as she would have gotten home at best would

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Speaker 1: have been about ten thirty, yes, ma'am. And you get

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Speaker 1: the call from your cousin at nine pm, yes, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about your drive home that night. I guess

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Speaker 1: you raced out of the nursing home to try to

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Speaker 1: get home. Yes, ma'am. I did. On the way driving,

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Speaker 1: I was like trying to multipash and not rick at

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Speaker 1: the same time. So I was trying to multitest on

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Speaker 1: one phone with the police on one line, and then

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Speaker 1: trying to call my aunt on the other line to

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Speaker 1: see if she can rush out there and meet me

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Speaker 1: there or go out there and look for them until

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Speaker 1: I do. There. I was trying to pod between two

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Speaker 1: different people, trying to figure out, like, how did my

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Speaker 1: kids go missing? Who's missing? How many are missing? How

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Speaker 1: do they get out of the house. They knew you

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Speaker 1: not to get out of the house. You had a

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Speaker 1: babysitter there watching them, So what the hey happened? You're

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Speaker 1: calling nine one one. I'm surprised you didn't just run

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Speaker 1: off the road trying to get home, but you got home.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard to tell police my child is missing

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Speaker 1: when you don't know is it one, is it two?

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Speaker 1: Or all six? Gone well? And they were just there

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Speaker 1: at six pm when you were on the phone with him.

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Speaker 1: Three hours later they're missing. How did that happen? Guys?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime Online and

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Speaker 1: Lieutenant Jason Jones joining us out of Texas. By ten

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Speaker 1: pm that Friday night, deputies from the Cass County Sheriff's Office,

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Speaker 1: wardens from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, and fire

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Speaker 1: rescue crews from Cass County Emergency Services District Number two

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Speaker 1: mounted a search for the children, and by now everyone

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Speaker 1: involved is looking for three little girls, nine year old

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Speaker 1: Ziaril Oliver, eight year old Amya Hughes, and five year

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Speaker 1: old Tomorrow Oliver. Shelminique has made sure her other children

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Speaker 1: are fine and where they belong. With all the manpower

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Speaker 1: on hand, a search inside and outside of the house begins.

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Speaker 1: We now know that the case has been handed over

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Speaker 1: to the Texas Rangers, but prior to that, what was

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Speaker 1: the information that led to the cog So we were

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Speaker 1: Texas Day Warns perceived a call about ten o'clock on

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Speaker 1: Friday night, a report of three children missing, and so

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Speaker 1: we gathered up our assets and went out to the

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Speaker 1: locate last known location of them. We brought in one

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Speaker 1: of our K nine units. That search led to a

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Speaker 1: pond which was about two hundred yards away from the residents.

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Speaker 1: Miss Pickerson, your children would never have gone to that

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Speaker 1: pond on their own. I'm sure from what I have research,

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Speaker 1: you made it very clear they were not to go there,

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Speaker 1: and they did not go there under your watch. No,

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Speaker 1: we never knew about upon being back there. And I

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Speaker 1: grew up out there in my whole life, so I

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Speaker 1: never knew it was upon out there. And my kids

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Speaker 1: wouldn't go in the field no way, because there are

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Speaker 1: animals out their cows and horses, so they never would

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Speaker 1: have stepped foot over there. Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here.

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Speaker 1: Join us now on Fox Nation for our brand new special,

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Speaker 1: Children of serial Killers, a Nancy Grace investigation. Parents by day,

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Speaker 1: Killers by night? But what about the sons and daughters

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Speaker 1: of brutal murderers? Are they forever haunted by their parents crimes?

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Speaker 1: What happens when they find out mommy or Daddy's a killer?

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Speaker 1: In this new special, we investigate the lives of children

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Speaker 1: of serial killers, weaving the timelines of the parents' crimes

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Speaker 1: into their home lives. Speaking directly with sons and daughters

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Speaker 1: of serial killers, including the children of the Craigslist Killer,

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Speaker 1: the Chameleon killer, and more, we hear from experts in

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Speaker 1: the field. Don't miss this. Join us now for Children

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Speaker 1: of serial Killers and Nancy Grace Investigation, streaming exclusively on Foxnation.

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Speaker 1: Go to Foxnation dot com to watch Time Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. You know there's something called routine evidence with

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Speaker 1: me Jarrett Farentino, high profile lawyer out of the Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: Jurisdiction with poogli U, c Finnegan Schaeffer and Farentino Jartt.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. And when I say

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Speaker 1: routine evidence, I don't mean boring routine or typical, I

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Speaker 1: mean evidence of a routine, practically everything Missus Wickerson is saying.

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Speaker 1: It was reminding me of growing up in rural Georgia.

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Speaker 1: Across the street from our home and then across a

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Speaker 1: creek and then up a hill was a huge cow pasture,

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Speaker 1: huge and there would be cows and sometimes bulls out there,

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Speaker 1: and we knew not to go there, not to go

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Speaker 1: through that barred wire and try to pet the cows.

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Speaker 1: We would never even think of it. And there were

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Speaker 1: ponds and streams everyone, and we knew not to go there,

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Speaker 1: and we didn't. So when I hear this mother of six,

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Speaker 1: three of her girls now gone, did I believe her?

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Speaker 1: Because I experienced the same thing. She said, they would

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Speaker 1: never go to that pond because you have to go

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Speaker 1: through woods and cows and this and that to get

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Speaker 1: to it, and she knew her children. That is called

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Speaker 1: retained evidence evidence of the routine of the children and

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Speaker 1: Nancy missus Wilkerson, and I am I too, am sorry

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Speaker 1: for the loss of your children, Nancy. That would be

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Speaker 1: evidence that could be considered if this case is ultimately

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Speaker 1: presented in court. The fact that missus Wilkerson warrant her children,

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Speaker 1: and her children knew not to go into that area.

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Speaker 1: That is something that the district attorney can present and

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Speaker 1: should the jury. Just another reason, another piece of this

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Speaker 1: puzzle that would suggest this was not a natural pathing

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Speaker 1: in these children. They knew better. You're so right if

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Speaker 1: we ever get a POI person of interest or a suspect,

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Speaker 1: much less a defendant. But what I'm saying is I

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Speaker 1: do not think that cops were led to this pond

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Speaker 1: without good reason. Guys, take a listen now to Lieutenant

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Speaker 1: Jason Jones. And so there close to that pond, we

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Speaker 1: found a pair of tennis shoes right next to the water,

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Speaker 1: and so we we had the family members identified that

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Speaker 1: that was one of the little girl's tennis shoes that

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Speaker 1: was that was missing, so that that way we could

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Speaker 1: focus our efforts closer to the water's edge or to

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Speaker 1: the water. We actually found some footprints in the mud

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Speaker 1: leading into the water, so that that kind of narrative

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Speaker 1: searched down even more. Worker, Son, we are hearing Lieutenant

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Speaker 1: Jones speaking, Do you remember when you recalled to identify

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Speaker 1: clothing and or girls to the shoes near the pond? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because when I got there, I heard my aunt them

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Speaker 1: out there in the field somewhere yelling for my kids,

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Speaker 1: and my older daughter had to show us where to

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Speaker 1: go to get back there to where they was. And

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Speaker 1: I've seen my daughter's shoes stacked up neatly beside the punt.

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Speaker 1: And my daughter don't never stack shoes. She would throw

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Speaker 1: them in the corner or something, but she would never

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Speaker 1: stack them on top of each other. Okay, well we'll wait.

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Speaker 1: I find that really interesting what you're saying. Lets you

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Speaker 1: mean the three girls she's were stacked on top of

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Speaker 1: each other, only one pair, and that belonged to my

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Speaker 1: five year old little girl, Tamari. They only found her

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Speaker 1: shoes out there because they followed us out there with

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Speaker 1: my older daughter Ya Maria. So when you say the

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Speaker 1: shoes were stacked up neatly, what do you mean by that?

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Speaker 1: There were stacked on top of each other. Chris crossway,

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Speaker 1: my one point in one direction or one point the

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Speaker 1: other one. But they were stacked on top of each other. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what, people don't normally set the shoes down

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Speaker 1: like that. My kids never do that, never. What was

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Speaker 1: going through your mind? I mean, I can't even imagine.

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Speaker 1: I had one close call when my son went missing

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Speaker 1: in a babies or a superstore, And that was only briefly,

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Speaker 1: and I can still remember very clearly that the state

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Speaker 1: I was in till I found him. So you get

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Speaker 1: there and you hear your aunt calling out for your children,

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Speaker 1: and I can only relate to losing John David and

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Speaker 1: a Baby's or a superstore, and was very brief before

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Speaker 1: I found him. But I had my daughter Lucy under

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Speaker 1: one arm like a football and was running through the door,

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Speaker 1: screaming to shut the doors and lock the doors so

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Speaker 1: nobody could get out with them. It's horrible. What do

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Speaker 1: you recall was running through your mind, your state of

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Speaker 1: mind when you hear your aunt calling out your children's names.

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Speaker 1: My first thought was like, why is she even in

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Speaker 1: the field calling for them? Knowing that they don't never

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Speaker 1: go in the field. It's kind of strange to me obviously,

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Speaker 1: like why are you out there? There's no reason to

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Speaker 1: be out there. And then that's when my daughter, my

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Speaker 1: older daughter, was explaining to me, that's where they walked.

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Speaker 1: To Let me ask you a question. You say they

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Speaker 1: would never have gone out in the field, and that

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Speaker 1: you guys didn't even know anything about this pond. How

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Speaker 1: many children were with you, then you had three with

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Speaker 1: you and three missing. Great, okay, guys, The search then

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Speaker 1: takes a very dark turn. Take a Lis Snuffer as

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Speaker 1: a KSI. We've an update to a story that we

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Speaker 1: brought you over the weekend. Texas Rangers are now investigating

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Speaker 1: the drowning deaths of three corals in Cass County. Officials

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Speaker 1: say they recover the bodies of nine year old is

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Speaker 1: the Aeriel Oliver, eight year old Amya Harvey, and five

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Speaker 1: year old Tomorrow Oliver on Saturday morning near Cass County

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Speaker 1: Road thirty three nineteen. This after they were reported missing

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Speaker 1: on Friday night. Officials say their bodies were found in

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Speaker 1: a pond at a neighboring property of where they live.

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Speaker 1: We brought in a dive team to help search efforts

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Speaker 1: thunderwater rescue or recovery, and about two one or two

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Speaker 1: o'clock on Saturday morning, we located all three victims and

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Speaker 1: so they've been all sent off to all talk seeing

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Speaker 1: the investigations been turned over to the Texas Rangers and

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Speaker 1: more from our friends at KSLA. Cass County officials are

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Speaker 1: still trying to figure out what led to the drowning.

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Speaker 1: Depths of three young girls and a private pond yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Officials say they recovered the bodies of nine year old

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Speaker 1: Zare Oliver, eight year old Amya Harvey, and five year

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Speaker 1: old Tomorrow Oliver yesterday yesterday morning near Cass County thirty

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Speaker 1: three nineteen, This after they were reported missing Friday night.

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Speaker 1: Officials say their bodies were found in a pond at

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Speaker 1: a neighboring property of where they lived. Miss Workerson, where

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Speaker 1: were you when the girls bodies were discovered? Standing in

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Speaker 1: my yard close to the fence towards the field. What happened?

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Speaker 1: We was just waiting there. They came a few divers

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Speaker 1: came back and we had asked them if they found anybody.

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Speaker 1: They had told us no. And and then about forty

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Speaker 1: five and thirty five minutes later the chefs I think

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Speaker 1: that was came up and told us that he was

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Speaker 1: that they pulled out a child's body worn out of

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Speaker 1: the pond, and I had them describe the person to me,

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Speaker 1: and it was my eight year old a Maya Hughes.

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Speaker 1: And then what happened? And then he asked me about

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Speaker 1: some clothes that was in the pond from jackets that

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Speaker 1: were tied up together. They was about five to six

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Speaker 1: feet into the pond is where he had colda and

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Speaker 1: he showed us pictures and those jacket were my kids

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Speaker 1: jacket but they were in the trash. Okay, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: The jackets were not in the pond. The jackets came

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Speaker 1: from the trash and somehow they ended up in the pond.

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Speaker 1: Why was the jackets in the trash because they were

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Speaker 1: too little. So the jackets you need, had been put

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Speaker 1: in the trash and they ended up in this pond. Yes, now,

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Speaker 1: and they were tied together. Man, I'm like a rope. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So at this point, you've been told that your eight

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Speaker 1: year old Amaya has been found, you find out about

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Speaker 1: the jackets. When were you told about Zierio and Tamarium.

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Speaker 1: I was after they told me about Amaya I had

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Speaker 1: I was took off to the hospital because I was

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Speaker 1: having a heart attack, so they end up taking me

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Speaker 1: from the scene and then I end up at the

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Speaker 1: hospital in Atlanta, and my aunt came and following it

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Speaker 1: behind afterwards, and I was later told about my earther

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Speaker 1: kids were pulled out. When do you remember the moment

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Speaker 1: they're in the hospital that you were told about Tomari

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Speaker 1: and zerialum briefly because they had to give me something

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Speaker 1: to sedate me. So it's like kind of a blur

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Speaker 1: after they sedated me to doctor Menesia Pandey, Chief Forensic Pathologists,

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Speaker 1: LLC in Ohio. You can find her at the forensic

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Speaker 1: pathologist dot com. Doctor Menesia pande thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us, Doctor Pandey. I know that it's true, but

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Speaker 1: I've never understood how a shock or intense sorrow can

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Speaker 1: actually bring on a heart attack. It can happen. First

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Speaker 1: of all, this is a devastating though circumstances, and I'm

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Speaker 1: very very sorry man. So it can happen when you're

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Speaker 1: a beneffen. Your hormones they shoot up and it can

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Speaker 1: cause a lot of stress to the heart and then

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Speaker 1: you can get a heart attack from that, you know,

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Speaker 1: doctor Pandey, I'm projecting, but I remember when my father died.

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Speaker 1: I had always had low blood pressure in my whole life,

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Speaker 1: but within about a week of his passing, my blood

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Speaker 1: pressure shot up. It's never gone back down. How can

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Speaker 1: your mind or your emotions affect your body like that.

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Speaker 1: You do, because there's so many hormones that clean when

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Speaker 1: you're stressed and when you're exposed to such intense green

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Speaker 1: that your body just sort of shuts down and it

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Speaker 1: starts attacking yourself. In this case, you get I mean,

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Speaker 1: hart is one of the major organs, and then it stops,

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Speaker 1: you know, and there is a lot of stress to it.

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Speaker 1: You will have a heart attack. Time stories with me.

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Speaker 1: It'sy grace to doctor Patricia Wallace also joining us UM.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at doctor or pc Wallace therapy

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Speaker 1: dot com. You know, doctor Wallace, We've heard of people

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Speaker 1: dying of a broken heart. It was always said that way,

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Speaker 1: kind of like an old wives tale, but actually it's true. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but it is true. The body just begins to just

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Speaker 1: shift down and it's unable to continue its normal statterns

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Speaker 1: of you know, blood flow, heart something. Yes, it's the grief.

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Speaker 1: You're just the overwhelming sense of grief that in a

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Speaker 1: sense just shut the body down, you know, Doctor many Chapande,

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Speaker 1: there's something about a shock. The only thing I think

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Speaker 1: I can relate to is and when I first started

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Speaker 1: practicing law as a project here, I saw a lot

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Speaker 1: of shocking scenes, but I can call it. My fiance

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Speaker 1: was murdered. I did not want to see his body

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Speaker 1: in a coffin, and I went to the funeral home

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Speaker 1: and avoided it, but I did see a sliver of

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Speaker 1: his face and I passed out. I completely passed out.

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Speaker 1: It was just I don't even remember passing out. Everything

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Speaker 1: just went blank, and when I woke up, a lot

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Speaker 1: had happened. I don't understand how, and to this day,

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Speaker 1: don't understand how does a shock, a mental or emotional shock,

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Speaker 1: affect your physical body. I still don't understand what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: They're all connected, our heart, our minds, our whole bodies

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Speaker 1: connected to each other. So when we end such intense

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Speaker 1: griefs and such intense shock, our body shuts down. And

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Speaker 1: then because of that you need to pass out, or

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Speaker 1: you'll have a heart attack, or you know your body,

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Speaker 1: you'll just see it, or did you get a on

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Speaker 1: a disease in terms of you can get high blood

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Speaker 1: pressure eventually, Miss Wickerson, I know I told you before

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Speaker 1: we started our program, but I just can't tell you

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Speaker 1: enough how sorry I am for what you and your

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Speaker 1: family have gone through. And to think that even now,

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Speaker 1: this many months later, we still don't have a person

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Speaker 1: of interest, We still don't have a suspect, We still

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Speaker 1: don't have an answer to anything that has happened, Miss Wickerson,

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Speaker 1: How did you realize you were actually having a heart

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Speaker 1: attack when they told you they had found Amaya in

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Speaker 1: the pond? The reason how I knew is because that

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Speaker 1: wasn't my first one. That was my second one. I

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Speaker 1: had one back in twenty two when my mom passed

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Speaker 1: away from COVID. So I was already on heart medicine

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Speaker 1: at the time and I'm still is still this day,

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Speaker 1: and I forgot to take my mead during the whole ordeal.

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Speaker 1: So I decided to take you. It was kind of

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00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 1: already too late, Miss Peckerson. If there is anything we

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00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: can do to help you and help this case. We

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00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: all hear at crime stories and crime online at Fox Nation.

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Speaker 1: We all want to help you. I want to go

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Speaker 1: forward with what we know about this case because the

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Speaker 1: girls are fished out of the water. Chris Buyers joining

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Speaker 1: me longtime colleague and now friend, former police Chief John's

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Speaker 1: Creek twenty five years as a police officer, now private

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Speaker 1: investigator and poligrapher at Lancaster Services dot Com. Chris, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. Absolutely absolutely give my hearts

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Speaker 1: up to Miss Likerson. Here's the kicker, Chris. The children

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Speaker 1: knew not to go outside, not to go in that field.

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Speaker 1: They instinctively would not have done it. These three little

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Speaker 1: girls are not going to go through a feel full

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Speaker 1: of cows, through dances to get into some pond in

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00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: the middle of the woods that the mom didn't even

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00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: know about, that they had never been to at all.

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Speaker 1: They're fished out of the water and now we learn this.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our fens at kyt X. A

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Speaker 1: very sad update tonight on a story we first reported

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Speaker 1: on last summer. In July of twenty twenty two, three

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Speaker 1: siblings are putted missing were found dead inside a nearby pond.

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Speaker 1: That news shocked the entire community in the Atlanta school

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Speaker 1: district where there's children attended class. Now we're learning the

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Speaker 1: Texas Rangers are investigating their deaths says a homicide after

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Speaker 1: autopsy reports returned showing evidence of strangulation. The girls also

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00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: suffered some lacerations to their faces. Authorities say multiple witness

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00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: statements have been obtained, DNA testing is ongoing, and that

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Speaker 1: investigation will continue if anybody has any information about their debts.

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Speaker 1: Called Texas Ranger Josh Mason at nine O three, two

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Speaker 1: five seven two seven, So let me understand something to

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Speaker 1: Dave Mac joining US investigative reporter with Crime online dot Com,

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Speaker 1: they did not die of drowning, apparently, Nancy. These three

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Speaker 1: girls were strangled first, then placed in the pond. Guys,

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Speaker 1: you keep hearing the word Atlanta and Texas Rangers. It's

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Speaker 1: because there isn't Atlanta, Texas. That's where this has happened

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Speaker 1: out in a rural area Atlanta, Texas. Dave Mac, would

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Speaker 1: you please repeat that again? I just need to let

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Speaker 1: it sink in what it's the most heinous thing as

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Speaker 1: these three girls were strangled and by the way, they

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Speaker 1: mentioned lacerations on all of their faces. They decutch lacerations

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Speaker 1: on their faces. Then they were strangled, then they were

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Speaker 1: placed in the pond. Chris Buyers, I do not understand

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Speaker 1: why this cod cause of death is just now being

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00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: released all this time. The media, the public, neighbors all

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00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: think the little girls wandered, even though mom is saying

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Speaker 1: they would never have done that. That's just like somebody

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Speaker 1: telling me John David and Lucy snuck out of the

429
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: house last night and went and hot wired a car

430
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: and took off and they're in New Jersey right now,

431
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: that would not happen. She's telling us the girls would

432
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: not go there, and now we're finding out that they

433
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: didn't just go there. Mommy is right, they're cod It's

434
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: not drowning, it's strangulation. So now what do we do? Yeah? Absolutely,

435
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: And you know, the from an investigator side of this,

436
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: as you know, well, times of the essence on these

437
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: cases and not just the physical evidence that you need

438
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: to secure, but you know you're losing witness evidence, different

439
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: things as time goes on. You know, I'm sure the

440
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: investigators kind of in the very beginning, if I were

441
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: to get the case, I mean, you start looking at

442
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: first thing you do is start looking at, you know,

443
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: sex defenders in the area and any tag readers you

444
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: may have out their ring cameras. Hey hey, hey, hey, hey,

445
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: slow down, James Bond, explain what you mean by tag readers.

446
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: So one of the things you know that's that's very

447
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: evolving in law enforcement now are tag readers. Some of

448
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: them can be mounted on patrol cars, some of them

449
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: can be mounted on you know, just a road sign

450
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: which records every tag that goes down that road. One

451
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: of the first things that I would do, as an

452
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: infinite commander on a missing person, especially a missing childcase,

453
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: would be to get all of my patrol cars heading

454
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: an opposite directions towards that scene that have tag readers

455
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: on it, to record every tag that comes through there.

456
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: And then you can a bad database and you can

457
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: start to compare it to your sect defenders that are

458
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: registered in the area. You know, you're people that are

459
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: out on parole, and it's just a great quick way

460
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: to start to you know, really whittle down who your

461
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: suspect pool is. Okay, what about this, Let me throw

462
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: a wrench in the works. Chris Buyers with me, Foreign

463
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: Police Chief John's Creek now at Lancaster Services dot com.

464
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: This is a very small rural area. The population is

465
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: about fifty five hundred. Now that unless you're near a

466
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: big interstate, that greatly reduces your suspect pool. And I'll

467
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: remind you again in the case of Shasta and Dylan

468
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: Grony who lived in Cordlaine, Idaho out I mean you

469
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: fly over it, which I have done. You see nothing

470
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: but forest green, That's all you see. But they when

471
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: you're an interstate and a guy driving a truck on

472
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 1: the inner state looks out and sees Shasta at an

473
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: above ground pool from the interstate. He goes and lays

474
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: and wait. The family go to sleep, kills all of

475
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: them to take Shasta, and Dylan kills Dylon after blasting

476
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: both of them over and over and over and over.

477
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying that type of stranger on victim

478
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: crime can happen in a very very low pow population area,

479
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: but it's rare. So would you agree with that, Chris, Yeah,

480
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: I would absolutely agree with that. And just like you said,

481
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: it really narrows down your suspect pool. You know, with

482
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: even type of investigations, you always start within and then

483
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: you work your way out. And so just like you're saying,

484
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: you're starting with you know that that small pool right

485
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: around where this crime happened. Who've had access to him

486
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: and who would have known about it? Let me ask

487
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: you this right off the top, miss Wickerson, where was

488
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: the bio dad of these children at the time that

489
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: they went missing. I don't have any communication with any

490
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: of them, So they were nowhere around, no mal and

491
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: certainly not taking a part and helping you raise the children.

492
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: No visits, no money, no nothing, no no no, And

493
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: here you are working at night as certified nurses aide

494
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: at a rest home to support the children. Is that correct, yes, ma'am,

495
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: miss Wickerson. When you were told that you're three girls,

496
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: I initially thought to have been drowned by accident in

497
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: this pod, even though you kept saying that did not happen.

498
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: When you were told they were actually strangled, what went

499
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: through your mind? My mind kind of went with when

500
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: I was killing me this. They had to literally stand

501
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: in front of me because trying to get out the door,

502
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: and I guess they probably bowed that I was going

503
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: to go, probably hurt my cousin or something, the one

504
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: that was babysitting that should have been watching them. Let

505
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: me let me ask you a question. When they first

506
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: told you that the three girls were strangled, put it

507
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: upon and abandoned, could you even believe it did not?

508
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: How many times did they have to tell you the

509
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: girls were strangled? They kept repeating it more than five times.

510
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 1: They just kept repeating it over and over. I asked

511
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: you that from a personal experience, because when my fiancee

512
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: was murdered, I remember I would have to get the

513
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: days had passed, I'd have to keep going to my

514
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 1: mom and or my danger is Keith dead. He's dead,

515
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: Keith is dead. I couldn't take it in. What is that,

516
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: Doctor Patricia Wallace, You're the shrink when you really can't

517
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: absorb it, your mind cannot absorb it. What is that called?

518
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely right? It's like the psychlogenic view where you just

519
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: go to blank. You don't remember anything, nothing related to

520
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: that situation. It's like you can't believe it. Miss Wickerson.

521
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: It's really hard for me to even ask the next

522
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: question because I'm trying to absorb everything you're telling me to.

523
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: Doctor Menicia Pandey, and all of us are here, Miss Wickerson,

524
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what we are hearing. Doctor Pandey.

525
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 1: If there were lacerations on these girls faces that had

526
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: to have happened before four they were strangled, wouldn't it,

527
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: Because once you're strangled and you've passed on, there wouldn't

528
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 1: be you wouldn't bleed right, There wouldn't be real evidence

529
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: of the lacerations. Would there ce lacerations, depending on how

530
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: deep they were, would have happened either at the time

531
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: or just before the time of death. Miss Wickerson, When

532
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: the girls were at the funeral home, did you describe

533
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: the lacerations on their face. Um, well, I couldn't really

534
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: see any lacerations on Tamari and the Maya besides the

535
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: both that lived. But on the Ariel Robinson, my older child,

536
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: my nine year old, they had to reconstruct one side

537
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: of her face. Why it looked like she took a

538
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: beating on one side of her face and it tore

539
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: her ski and off, so they had to reconstruct one

540
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: side of her face. How so many people could have

541
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: thought this was a routing is really beyond me. But

542
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: that said, Miss Wickerson, I have to ask you a

543
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 1: very difficult question. When the girls were found, were all

544
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: three of them clothed? Did they have their clothes on?

545
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: I was told that they did have clothes on, just

546
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: two of them did not have any shoes. Did have

547
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: clothes on? Yes, ma'am, Miss Wickerson. Do you believe that

548
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: any of your three girls that were found in that

549
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: pond had been molested at the time? No, ma'am, I

550
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: did What about now? From the autopsy and what we

551
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,959
Speaker 1: were told by other Tension's rangers year, they weren't all three,

552
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: Miss Wickerson? Who was there taking care of them that

553
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: night while you were at work? My cousin tears pop.

554
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: Is that a male or a female? That's a meal?

555
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: And where is he right now? He will back with

556
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: his mother, Lamicia Pump. How old is he? Thirty one?

557
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: Has he ever described to you what happened the night

558
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: the girls went missing? He won't even talk to me

559
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: or nobody else. Did he attend the funerals? Yeah, but

560
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: he was sleep he was He was asleep at the funeral. Yes.

561
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: Has cops questioned him? No, His mom told him not

562
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: to talk to the police, and she told them to

563
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: stay away from him in her house. His full name

564
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: is Paris Pops Popps Paris are mern props guest, ma'am?

565
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: And is he related to you or to the girl's

566
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: bio dad? He is related to me in what way?

567
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: His mom is my aunt and my mom and his aunt.

568
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: And to this day he's never explained to you what

569
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: happened to night the girls ended up in that pond, No, ma'am.

570
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: Can the other girls describe anything or are they too

571
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: young to recount what they observed? My four year old

572
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: have already told Texas rangers that the girls went in

573
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: the woods with Parish, and that came from my four

574
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: year old but they said she's still little. Where does

575
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: the case stand right now, Dave mac It's an open investigation.

576
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: Nancy and the Texas Rangers are asking the public for help. Guys,

577
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: if you know or think you know anything about this case,

578
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: please dial nine zero three two five five five seven

579
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 1: two seven repeat nine zero three two five five seven

580
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: two seven. No one has been named a person of

581
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 1: interest or a suspect yet, Miss Wickerson. Is it true

582
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: that you have been trying to reach the Texas Rangers,

583
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: specifically Ranger Josh Mason, and you can I even get

584
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: a phone call back that is correct? What's happening? It's

585
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: like I'm trying to get I'm trying to ask him

586
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: if there's any news whatever they have. Can he speak

587
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: with me, give me some details or anything about my

588
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: kid's case? But it's like he's just dodging my calls,

589
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 1: my voicemails. The prom victim lady also has message Josh

590
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: Mason to call me, and he emailed her back and

591
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: said that he would, And that was back in January

592
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: and he still has not called to this day or

593
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 1: answered his phone. The only time I'll say he called

594
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: he called last week from an unknown number, but left

595
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: a voicemail asking me how people called me since they

596
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: did a press release, and then when I tried calling back,

597
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: he didn't even answer. So he's concerned about media. Yes,

598
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: she wants me to see if people will come to

599
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: me tell me stuff and I give it back to

600
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: him for its like they want me to do their

601
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: investigation for them. I mean Chris Buyers, former police chief.

602
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: But I hear things like I'm hearing right now, and

603
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,399
Speaker 1: I've always had great respect for the Texas Rangers. I'm

604
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: embarrassed as law enforcement myself. It's embarrassing. Yeah, it's absolutely embarrassing.

605
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 1: Communication with the family, especially in crimes of this nature,

606
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: is vital. Yeah, and I want to communication Buyers, but

607
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 1: I want to suspect. I want to suspect at a trial,

608
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: and I can't. We can't. We can't even get a

609
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: phone call. We wait as just as some faults. Goodbye friend,