1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. My name is Ben. 3 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: My co host Noel, who usually fills in here with me, 4 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: is on adventures. However, never fear because we have our 5 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: returning special guest with us here today, Christopher Hasciodes. Thanks 6 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: again for saving the show. Good afternoon or good evening, 7 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: good morning. Um, I really have no idea what time 8 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: it is. We're here in the studio. There's a fake 9 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: sun outside of fake moon. I think that maybe actually 10 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: that's just Casey's face shining in, beaming in a rays 11 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: of goodness, the radiant face of super producer Casey Pegram. 12 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: Thank you, Casey. We need your light for this episode 13 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: because things are about to get very very dark. Yeah, Ben, 14 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: let me set the stage for you. It's a gloomy evening. 15 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: You're in the northern northern reaches of Europe. The sun 16 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: doesn't get too high, the clouds get low, the light 17 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: even lower. You're sitting by the water by a fjord, 18 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: maybe because you're in Norway, and just in the distance, 19 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: you start to see a shadow coming. It's moving, it's 20 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: on the water, it's listing from side to side. It's 21 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: a ship. It's a dark ship. It's a big ship. 22 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: But there's something different about the ship. The sails are 23 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: slightly tattered. There doesn't seem to be much life on board. 24 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: Ben you're looking at It's a ship of death. And 25 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: that's what I'm gonna tell you for right now. I 26 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: just creeped myself out a little bit. That was great. 27 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: It's a ship of death coming towards you. Uh, Let's 28 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: let's rewind a little bit and get a little context. Yeah, 29 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: let's let's rewind. I was spellbound, man, Casey, did you 30 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: like that? I was wrapped with attention over here? Yeah, 31 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: Casey on the case. That was great. So yes, let's 32 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: let's step back just a just a tad here. Why 33 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: are why are we? Why are we talking about Norway now? 34 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: And when are we talking about? Right? Why? And when? 35 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: Two very important questions the show Whom? Wherefore? So? When's when? 36 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: I'm going to toss them all to you. Don't forget whither. 37 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: I feel like whither needs to needs to get whether 38 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: the point of this story? Yes, yes, to the very 39 00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: same Christophers. So we are traveling back to the fourteenth century, 40 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: to the thirteen hundreds. If you are, you know, on 41 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: some level aware of European history at the time, then 42 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: you will have heard of the catastrophic fatal affliction known 43 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: today as the Black Death. From the years thirteen forty 44 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: six to thirteen fifty three. This spread across the European continent. 45 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: The name only came several centuries later. We we called 46 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: it the Black Death or the Black Plague as a retronym. 47 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: But Genoese merchant ships brought this plague to Sicily in 48 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:52,839 Speaker 1: the early thirteen forties, and no one was quite prepared 49 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: for the magnitude of damage that this and and havoc 50 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: that this thing would Yeah, I mean the the the 51 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: bubonic plague as it's more technically known, because you know, 52 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: one of the symptoms are are these boobos or growths 53 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: that that infected people get, and it's just got such 54 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: a magnificently high mortality rate. Um, And when a human 55 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: contracts a disease, you have about a couple of days 56 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: for it to show up, a couple of days of 57 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: symptoms and then you die. It's it's miserable, miserable way 58 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: to go. Um. The plague and the time we're talking 59 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: about it in the middle of the fourteenth century was 60 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: generally regarded as the first Black Death and Black plague. Europe, 61 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: the Middle East, Northern Africa, parts of Western Asia all 62 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: kind of experienced different waves and then there was a 63 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: bigger um return of the plague and kind of but yeah, 64 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: it's it wiped out massive portions of the population. Um 65 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: estimates are really hard to come by and sometimes, um, 66 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, things are inflated. Population counts aren't as accurate. 67 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: If you said a third of the population of Europe 68 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: died over the span of time, that's pretty pretty right on, 69 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: right right. Yeah. Nowadays we can reasonably guess that this 70 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: was caused by a bacterium called your Sinia pestish. This 71 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: resulted in several different forms of plague, and our best 72 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: guest for the origin point of this affliction is somewhere 73 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: in Central Asia and the dry plains of Central Asia, 74 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: traveling along the Silk Road reaching Crimea in the as 75 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: you said, the mid century. Most likely it was it 76 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: was carried by not rats, but the fleas living on 77 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: the rats, technically black rats that traveled on these merchant ships, 78 00:05:54,040 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: which was one of the most efficacious if you to 79 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: spread a disease internationally this time. Spreading it via a 80 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: merchant ship is brilliant. You could not have planned it 81 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: better if you were trying to, you know. So, there's 82 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: this concept of of rats being plague bearers and carrying 83 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: this pestilence. But I believe and our our good friends 84 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: at the house stuff Works dot com may have dug 85 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: into this in the past, that there's something is ringing 86 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: a bell in my deep in my memory that there's 87 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: been some research done that it was actually not rats 88 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: that originated the black plague kind of rodent zero, if 89 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: you will, but it was more something like a squirrel 90 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: or a chipmunk or something much cuter but still more sinister. Okay, 91 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: you know what, I could see that because the flea 92 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: would probably not discriminate and a lot of historically, a 93 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: lot of human leisure time has been spent vilifying rats. Yeah. Uh, Well, 94 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: what I will do is I will dig into the 95 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: archives at house Stuff Works dot calm and um. When 96 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: I figured that out, I will share that on Ridiculous Historians, 97 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: the Facebook group for this podcast that you're listening to 98 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: right now. If you guys are not on Facebook, let 99 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: me just switch from Death and Disease mode to promotional 100 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: and social media mode. Point your machines over towards Facebook 101 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: and look at ridiculous historians. You can chat with Ben, 102 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: you can chat with no old cases there. Sometimes I'm around. 103 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: Um yeah, I was sharing info about stories. But I 104 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: will post a link to that story over there on 105 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: the site. Thank you so much, Christopher, trying to find 106 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: some light in this, uh, this grim grim tale. This 107 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: is a very grim grim tale. And we know that 108 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: the disease itself appears to be ancient. We have some 109 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: fairly compelling arguments that it hit parts of the world 110 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: in the human population way before the thirteen hundreds. In 111 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works by our own In an article by 112 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: our own Tracy Wilson, good friend of ours, good friend 113 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: of the show, one of the hosts of stuff you 114 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: missed in History class uh. In her work on How 115 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: Stuff Works, she notes that Justinian's plague from five forty 116 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: two to six a d Was thought to be uh, 117 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: one of the pandemics caused by you know, the bubonic 118 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: plague or the black plague. As you said, Christopher, this thing, 119 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: when it strikes strikes hard, it strikes fast. It doesn't 120 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: tick all the boxes for a perfect disease, because a 121 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: perfect disease would hopefully have a longer gestation rate, uh, 122 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: such that it allows for more infections. And this thing 123 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: was knocking people down left and right. So we mentioned Norway. Right, 124 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: when we mentioned Norway, we need to talk a little 125 00:08:55,200 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: bit about the cycle of infection for this disease. So 126 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: plague was spread considerable distances by these rats on these ships. 127 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: And the first thing you would think is, well, how 128 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: long does a rat live in the wild? How long 129 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: does a rat live running for its life in a 130 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: ship right where it's probably going to be maybe tolerated, 131 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: but killed if if the opportunity swept overboard, um tossing 132 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: a bag eaten Yeah, eaten, worst comes to worst. So 133 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: these rats would and did die at a pretty high rate, right, 134 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: I mean they had plague. They had they had the plague. 135 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: That's a really good point. But their fleas would survive 136 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: and they would find new rat hosts wherever they landed, 137 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: because docs were dirty, filthy places that were home to 138 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: uh lots of like rats in and uh insects and 139 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: other things for all of those things to eat, yes, yeah, exactly, 140 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: And and those rats would die. Um, but then the 141 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: fleas who lived on them didn't necessarily die and they 142 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: needed a new place to live of. And when you're 143 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: on a ship, if you don't have the rats to 144 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: live on, who are you going to jump to? People? Whenever, 145 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 1: the next warm mammal is yeah, you and me and 146 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: old Swabby over there on your pony from the previous episode. 147 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: My pony's name is not Swabby. My pony does not 148 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: um swamp that day, although you know what, actually maybe 149 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: she does. I think if we could train a pony 150 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: to tie them up to her tail and swab decks 151 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: and avoid the plague. Okay, I'm down with that. All right, 152 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: let's let's let's listen to what we're talking about. And 153 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: if this is your first episode of Ridiculous History, uh 154 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: go check out last um our most previous episode, where 155 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: we talked about something a little more lighthearted than boils 156 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: and pustules and death, where we talked about ponies and princesses. 157 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: It was a little more fun, yes, a lot more fun. 158 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: It's it's always fun being here with you, Ben and Casey, 159 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: thanks man. And Nole of course is here in spirit, 160 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: but he doesn't have to deal with boils and pustules 161 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: and black day and rats and fleas and scratching and 162 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: itching and bleeding, and I don't know that, I don't know. 163 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: I don't know what he's doing. He might be. Norm's 164 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: idea of a vacation is very different than mine, I 165 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: have found. That's quite true. Uh So, speaking of what 166 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: we can call the whole idea of a vacation, the 167 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: bubonic plague. Uh At least at the time of this 168 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: particular wave of plague, this particular pandemic, people didn't have, 169 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: for instance, germ theory, the idea of washing one's hands, 170 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: the idea that infections could be carried by a life 171 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: form as small as to be invisible to the naked eye. 172 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: It was. It was an alien concept, you know, and 173 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: a lot of what we would consider medical treatment at 174 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: this time was fundamentally and intertwined with religious belief. That's true. 175 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: But while the specifics of transmission of bubonic plague weren't 176 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: known to people at the time, there was knowledge that 177 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: that people would transmit it from person to person, perhaps 178 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: from animal to person, not knowing how, but knowing that 179 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: it did happen. And so word of plague spread before 180 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: plague itself spread necessarily, and so a lot of these communities, 181 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: especially the merchant marine communities, the ones on the on 182 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: the coast, put in place um safeguards so they knew 183 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: that an infected person could spread plague to another infected person. 184 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: So if we're back in in Norway, UM, you know, 185 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: they essentially established offshore quarantines where if a ship is 186 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: coming into trade goods, you couldn't just bring the ship 187 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: into harbor and uh and have no control over who 188 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: or what gets off board. You would have to stay 189 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: a little bit off offshore and only uninfected sailors or 190 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: crewmen could then come into town. And this was a 191 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: way of these cities, which are in pretty remote places, 192 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: remaining plague free and trying to protect themselves and putting 193 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: in place as much as they could preventative measures to 194 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: keep their population safe. And it totally worked. When a 195 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: ship that had let's say half the crew had plague, 196 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: they wouldn't come into the shore, they would stop and 197 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: the ones without plague would come in and do the trading. 198 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: Everything was working fine, ideally, ideally, and that worked fine 199 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: when a few of the crew members had plague. It 200 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: worked fine when some of the crew members had plague, 201 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: or even many of the crew members had plague. It 202 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: did not work so well when everybody died, right right, 203 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: And this this is where our story takes the turn 204 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: to Norway. In thirteen forty nine, an English merchant ship 205 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: carrying wool set out northward. They were they were bound 206 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: for the north and along the way they realized they 207 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: had lost the lottery of disease and crew members were 208 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 1: getting the plague. They didn't all die once, but they 209 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: were dying one by one and not being dummies themselves. 210 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: The people who were surviving or who had not yet 211 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: contracted the plague, attempted to quarantine the sick. They said, 212 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: these people have the plague. Again. They don't know that 213 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: it's carried by these parasites on these these smaller creatures, 214 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: or all these parasites, these fleas that are probably on 215 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: all of them to some degree. So they try to 216 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: quarantine the people who are ill, and it doesn't work. 217 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: They're a buck short in a day late. I mean, 218 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: that's the thing. When everyone on the ship dies, you 219 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: have no control over what happens to the ship. And so, 220 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: you know, let's let's go back to the way we 221 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: started this show. We have this looming hulking, empty vessel, 222 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: somewhat devoid of human life, but teaming with rats. The 223 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: rats still have fleas on them, they're still play on them. 224 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: And so we're we're near the town of Bergen in Norway. Uh. 225 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: Normally this would have been, you know, not a great situation, 226 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: but they would have dealt with it. But um, no, 227 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: this ship had a completely dead crew and just it 228 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: ran aground it crashed, which is such an unfortunate lottery 229 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: to win because it could have also plausibly just drifted 230 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: off into the sea and then sink in rough water. 231 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: The very last living person aboard could have could have 232 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: thrown down an anchor or scuttled it, you know what 233 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: I mean, but didn't. And that's the thing. It's it's 234 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: literally a ship of death, um. And that you know, 235 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: there's not too much ridiculous about this history today, but 236 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: that to me is is what touches on the verge 237 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: of the absurd, and that it's it's so scary, so 238 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: cinematic and terrifying to have a literal ship of death 239 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: going to the frosty North um where it also seems 240 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: like sort of a death metal kind of way to 241 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: go um, you know, and that music is super popular 242 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: up in those parts. Um. But to have this, yeah, 243 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: just a ship of death crashing into your town despite 244 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: all your preventative measures and everything you've tried to do 245 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: to save your town from plague. Um, ship of death's 246 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: gonna get you. The ship of death's gonna get you. 247 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: To the tune of the rhythm is gonna get you. 248 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: I think our syllables are slightly off, but the gist 249 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: is there, and this is a terrifying moment. I think 250 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: that's why Casey and I both felt so um enthralled 251 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: when you were when you were painting that image for 252 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: us at the beginning, Because this, like most of the 253 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: scariest of stories, is a true story. And when we 254 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: say that it ran aground in Bergen Harbor, we don't 255 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: mean that it just infected the people of Bergen Harbor. 256 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: Contemporary accounts, although exaggerated, seemed to indicate that around a 257 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: third of the population of Norway died. And the thing 258 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: with you know, I think you made a tremendous point 259 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: about how much margin of error we have with any 260 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: kind of population estimate or death toll estimate for things 261 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: that occurred at this point in time in history. Despite that, 262 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: you have to admit that even if it was just 263 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: it's still one out of every five people dying. People, 264 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: So it's more than one out of every five, possibly 265 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: around one out of every three people died because this 266 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: one ship washed up in this one place. And it 267 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: didn't stop there, did it because it expanded beyond Norway. Yeah, 268 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: it just all over. And what this really reminds me 269 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: of is um, you know, in any zombie film or 270 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: TV show where the people have taken all the safeguards 271 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: they can, They've holed up inside of a safe house, right, 272 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: and then someone makes a fatal mistake, one bite comes 273 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: through and then that's it. Then things crumble from there. 274 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: So um, all the Walking Dead and and all those 275 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: series and showed there may be something to it. That's 276 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: that's how that's how society crumbles, perhaps perhaps not with 277 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: a bang, but with a whimper. And here's another thing. 278 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: This plague, this catastrophe affected Norway in more ways than one. 279 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: It did not just kill one fifth to one third 280 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: of the population. It made a fundamental impact on their 281 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: culture and folklore, which remains in the modern day. Yeah, 282 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: this is not a story just about um corpses and 283 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: people dying. I mean, the the experience of the Black 284 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: death and the Black plague really manifests itself, not just 285 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: with a death count, but in the culture. In the 286 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: story of Pesta, the witch, Pesta, as listeners may guess 287 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: for themselves, rightly, is related to terms of pestilence and 288 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: pestual And that's everything that I just thought because of 289 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: what you just said is disgusting to me and disgusting 290 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: to everyone, but I had to do it. Yeah, No, 291 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,479 Speaker 1: so Pesta right, So Pesta is in Norwegian folklore. Um, 292 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: this which a harbinger of doom and death. She's the 293 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: embodiment of the plague, but she's not an embodiment of 294 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: complete annihilation, right because the plague didn't kill everyone. So 295 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: what what do we know about the story of Pasta 296 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: and who she is and what happens if you encounter 297 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: her on a dark and gloomy Norwegian road? Oh yes, 298 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: check this out, Christopher. I love the way you're differentiating too, 299 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: between pestilence and straight death. Right, there are two very 300 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: different but related things. Yeah, in in this case they're 301 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: usually you know that then diagram is almost just a circle. 302 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: But yes, but it's not always that way. It's not 303 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: always that way, but it's a tremendously unfortunate occurrence to 304 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: encounter Pesta. You see, Pesta travels from one village to 305 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: the next. She has a broomstick, but she's also doubled down. 306 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: She possesses a rake. If you happen upon the witch 307 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: Pesta with her rake, then you know she will spare 308 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: some of the people in your community. But if she 309 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: begins sweeping with her broomstick, there's no point in running. 310 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: You're dead and so is everyone around you. Yeah, that's 311 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: the thing is so pasta the embodiment not just of death, 312 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: but the embodiment of this specific type of death link 313 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: to this illness. If she rakes through your community, those 314 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: those claws will tear up your loved ones, your neighbors. 315 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: But there are gaps between the teeth of a rake, 316 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: and some people will make it their way through. But 317 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: if she's sweeping with a broom you're all done for. 318 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: And it's just a it's a really creepy, kind of 319 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: terrifying embodiment of this experience too, to think that it's 320 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: not just um, not just something that happens, but that 321 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: there's some will behind it, that there's this terrifying woman 322 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: in a deep red skirt who will just clean the 323 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: earth as she sees fit, and you and your friends 324 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: and neighbors have little to do with with the way 325 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: things turn out. And there's a fatalism there as well. 326 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: You know, because your odds of survival are already very, 327 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: very low, the best you can hope is that some survive. 328 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: I do want to point out one myth busting thing 329 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: here that may be of interest to many of us listening. 330 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: You know those really cool mask that they always show 331 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: the doctors wearing. Yeah, they show up in like um uh, 332 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: you know, Brazilian Carnival and in New Orleans and then 333 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: also in the sci fi remake of a Twelve Monkeys series. 334 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: Ah yeah, yeah, those pestilence mask. The way that they're 335 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: depicted is this the concept being before they were totally 336 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: taken over by goth kids in this country, the concept 337 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: was that the people wearing them, we're protecting themselves from 338 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: exposure to disease bodies, and that that long bird bill 339 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: snout looking thing is actually a container for herbs, and 340 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: that the herbs would be ignited sometimes and that they 341 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: would gently burn and them and the mask you're talking 342 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: about us to get that sort of conical long proboscis 343 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: that's sort of like creepy bird uh ibis Egyptian God 344 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: kind of vibe going on right right right, sort of 345 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: abstract attempt at rendering an ant eater. So there's a 346 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: there's a myth about that is that is that not 347 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: a thing? Uh, there's no concrete evidence that people in 348 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: the fourteenth century were wearing these, and medical historians were 349 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: wearing these at the time, and medical historians will say 350 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: that they were not invented until three hundred years later, 351 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: when a sixteenth century French doctor named Charles de Lorme 352 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: designed what could be described as one of the world's 353 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: earliest has met suits. So it did occur in response 354 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: to the plague, but in a later wave of the plague. 355 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: That's the other myth that I think we we busted 356 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: pretty effectively, not just one. It was no no, things 357 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: just kept being terrible, great, great. I don't we don't 358 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: have to end it that way. Uh, Let's let's talk 359 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: about some good news. I don't know how much goodness 360 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: this is. But Ben, let me ask you, you seem 361 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: like the kind of person who likes all of these things. 362 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: Do you like, um, swimsuit models? I like in general 363 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: in general? Yeah, you know, I'm not opposed to swimsuits 364 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: or people modeling. Okay, do you how do you feel 365 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: about um European men in flashy cravats. I'm in yeah, yeah, 366 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: I'm not opposed to either of you. What about zombified knights, Templar, 367 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: I mean, if I have to choose between the three, 368 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm going with number three. What if what if I 369 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: told you then, Ben Bollen, that you could, in one 370 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: film have all three of those? I would say thank 371 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: you for saving my weekend. To Christopher Hussey. Notice alright, 372 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: nineteen four filmed The Ghost Gallleon is a film that 373 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: I want to put on your radar. Then it's a 374 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: Spanish movie. It's not great. I don't know that it's 375 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: even good, but it's really enjoyable. It's um. In Spanish 376 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: it's called el bouke maldito, which means like the you know, 377 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: the the damned vessel or the ship of the damned, 378 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: But in English it's the Ghost Galleon. It's really campy, 379 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: but it's got a lot of zombie knights. Templar, who um, 380 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: there are these? There are these two swimsuit models who 381 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: to see a ghost ship off the coast and decide 382 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: to hey, let's go see what's on that ghost ship. Um, 383 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: the answer is zombies. So yeah, zombie zombified Knights Templar 384 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: who have come back from I guess crusading. And then 385 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: there's like some real like flashy dudes wearing ascots and 386 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: trying to punch skeletons. Um. This is another thing I 387 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: will share with the Facebook community group. I will put 388 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 1: the trailer for The Ghost Gallion up before your enjoyment 389 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: and you can decide for yourself if you want to 390 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: dig into the film as a whole. I love it. 391 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: I also really love um low budget, questionably acted horror 392 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: from the seventies. Yes, yes, as as you should. Christopher, 393 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: thank you for this recommendation. Beat me to the punch. 394 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: We have to put the trailer up. I'm actually I'm 395 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: gonna watch this after after we finished recording today. I did, 396 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: I did while you were talking about this. I did 397 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: remember one piece of good news that baffled me. I 398 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: kid you not. This is actual good news. From the 399 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: series of pandemics known collectively as the Black Plague or 400 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: the Bubonic Plague, there is a book which I may 401 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: have mentioned in previous episodes by a fellow named Norman Cantor. 402 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: The name of this book is In the Wake of 403 00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: the Plague. When I first read this book, there's something 404 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: that Cantor tosses aside in a fairly cavalier fashion, and 405 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: it is that there is compelling evidence that the evolutionary 406 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: pressure of the Black Plague led to the HIV resistant 407 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: genes that exist in parts of Europe today. Because you remember, 408 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: we've seen those stories and years past about bone marrow 409 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: transplant recipients who also find that there um that their 410 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: HIV had, their viral load has gone down and then 411 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: it has disappeared. It appears that there is compelling evidence, 412 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: while not a there's compelling evidence that the same infection 413 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: disease that killed so many people in Europe, Eurasia and 414 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: beyond may have made us more resistant to HIV and 415 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 1: ultimately eights. That's fascinating, and yeah, there there are myriad 416 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: ways you can look at a terrible, terrible instance um 417 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: in history like that, like the Black Death, and gloms 418 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: some sort of positive from it. I mean that that 419 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: is a wonderful thing and not the sort of thing 420 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: you would ever expect. But it's the way history unfolds. 421 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: I mean, there are a number of other things attributed 422 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: to the Black Death and kind of what society had 423 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: to do afterwards. There's an idea that a lot of 424 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: the smaller universities around Europe who really developed because people 425 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: didn't want to travel when they went to school, because 426 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: the more the more you travel, the more you risk 427 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: coming across people who had plague. So more schools had, 428 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: more communities had to develop their own local um universities 429 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: and colleges, and so that led to some education. Uh. 430 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: It is also credited with perhaps popularizing English across the continent. 431 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: The idea was that so many learned monks and scholars 432 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: passed away because of Black Death, that more people who 433 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: spoke the vulgar tongues your German, your English, they had 434 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: to assume those positions of power in universities, in higher learning, 435 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: and so English became more widespread. It's the same idea 436 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: why the printing press had to be invented because so 437 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: many monks died, they didn't have enough people to hand 438 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: copy bibles, so they needed to find a way to 439 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: kind of adapt to a situation where where you've lost 440 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: a significant portion of your population. Um, you know, whether 441 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: you can say it's a one to one causal relationship 442 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: is a little tricky. But these are some theories that 443 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: are out there and I think they're pretty interesting. That's fascinating, 444 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: and it feels like we are on the verge of 445 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: a completely new conversation the upsides of terrible events throughout 446 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: world history. Uh that that maybe an episode for another day, 447 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: But for now, why don't we throw it to you, 448 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians? What are some of the unin tended 449 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: How do we put its silver linings the terrible events 450 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: throughout human history? Um? We I think we illustrated just 451 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: a couple with a with a black plague to keep 452 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: what may indeed be our most death metal of episodes 453 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: from being completely grimy and grim. But let us know. 454 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: You can visit us on Facebook, as you said, Christopher, 455 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: at our community page Ridiculous Historians, you can see Casey Noel, 456 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: Christopher hasciotis himself and yours truly dropping in to two 457 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: field questions to to check out and share some of 458 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: the amazing stories throughout our species collective adventures. Let's see 459 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: what else in the meantime In the meantime, I have 460 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: a question for any listeners here who who happened to 461 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: be round about northern Wales. Uh, maybe over near Liverpool. 462 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: I read about a ship of death that they've got 463 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: going on right there. It just launched. Apparently for the 464 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: past thirty years there's been a ship called the Duke 465 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: of Lancaster which was kind of run aground and abandoned 466 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: near Uh. I think the town is called hole Well 467 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: or holy Well in Wales, Northern Wales, and there's this 468 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: company who kind of I think it's comparable to like 469 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: escape rooms here in the US, and they kind of 470 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: put on those haunted houses, but they've turned this ship 471 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: into a ship of death and you can kind of 472 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: go on there and experience a zombie attack on the ship. 473 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: What Yeah, I just read I read. I remember reading 474 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: about this at the end of two thousand and eighteen, 475 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,239 Speaker 1: and apparently this is a thing that has opened in 476 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: this year two nineteen UM. Zombie infection is I believe 477 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: the company, not not that we're giving props or or 478 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: speaking to their merit, but if anyone's listening, who is 479 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: in kind of like around the corner from Liverpool and 480 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: you've been on this Ship of Death or you want 481 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: to go on the Ship of Death and report back. 482 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: I'd like to hear about it me to sign me up. 483 00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: I want to hear if it lives up to the hype. 484 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: You can tell us about that. On the aff werementioned 485 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians Facebook page. You can find us on Twitter. 486 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram. You can find my 487 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: pal Nol on Instagram. He's at Embryonic Insider. You can 488 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram as well. Follow my adventures and 489 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: I get kicked into and out of various countries at 490 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: ben Boland Uh. In the meantime, we hope that you 491 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much as always to 492 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram. I know we can't see it 493 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,959 Speaker 1: because there's an audio podcast, and Casey, I know you 494 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: can't see me do this because there's a barrier between us. 495 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: But every time I say your name, I like to 496 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: throw my right arm wide in a in a grand 497 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: gesture towards you, sir uh. And we'd also like to 498 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: thank Alex Williams who can pose our track. As always, 499 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: thanks to Noel Brown, and thanks to you Christopher Hajciotis 500 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, I know after we uh after we did 501 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: our grift episode. You have me questioning everything, so I'm I'm. 502 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm still going to stick with the alias you provided 503 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: when we met all those years ago, remain questioning. It's 504 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: good to be a skeptic. Thanks for having me. It's 505 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: been really, really nice talking about the end of so 506 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 1: many people's lives. We'll see you again, Sue. For more 507 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, 508 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.