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Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the

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Speaker 1: home office in Austin, Texas. I hope everybody's having a

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Speaker 1: great week LZ. We just got back from Dad's weekend

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Speaker 1: that you also attended at TCU. So much fun with

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Speaker 1: their daughter, Taylor, and it was a great week. We

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Speaker 1: had a great weekend.

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Speaker 2: It's always awesome to see your kids thriving and wanting

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Speaker 2: to share their life with you. We're so proud of Taylor.

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Speaker 2: The most important thing to me is that she has

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Speaker 2: an incredible group of girlfriends around her. I think you know,

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Speaker 2: when you are parenting in any way, that's what you

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Speaker 2: want the most, is just for your kids to have

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Speaker 2: that group when they're away from you, to know they

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Speaker 2: have that family of friends. And besides that, of course,

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Speaker 2: she's doing great in school, so you want that too.

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Speaker 2: But it's just nice to see them feel secure and

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Speaker 2: happy and successful.

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Speaker 1: It is a week out from our presidential election where

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Speaker 1: the United States elected Donald Trump the forty seventh President

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Speaker 1: of the United States, and the subsequent chatter and everything

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Speaker 1: has now kind of played out. We did a very

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Speaker 1: highly listened to podcast immediately after the day after the election,

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Speaker 1: where we talked about the media and their responsibility and

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Speaker 1: how they were And now that we're a week out,

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Speaker 1: l Z I wanted to go back because now we

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Speaker 1: have the ratings. Now we have kind of the proof

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Speaker 1: of everything and what played out. And the good news

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Speaker 1: is this is the good news. The media has done

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Speaker 1: a full point eighty. They took a big gulp of

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Speaker 1: humble pie. They have realized the error of their ways,

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Speaker 1: and they have course corrected. And it is so refreshing

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Speaker 1: to see how even the comedians have really learned a lot.

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Speaker 1: Take for example, Jimmy.

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Speaker 2: Kimmel being too dry with this.

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Speaker 1: Take for example, Jimmy Kimmel who went on the next

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Speaker 1: day and literally broke down in tears and told half

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Speaker 1: the country, oh, well over half the country, since Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump won the popular vote, that everybody is wrong and

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Speaker 1: whether you voted for him or not, you all lost

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Speaker 1: and you made one of the biggest disastrous decisions of

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Speaker 1: your lives. And everybody lost. As he broke down into tears,

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Speaker 1: and I just thought, my god, Johnny Carson must be

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Speaker 1: rolling over in his grave. The day was ripe for comedy.

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Speaker 1: The country needed comedy. The jokes wrote themselves. They were

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Speaker 1: so there was such low hanging fruit and America needed

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Speaker 1: to finally just be galvanized and laugh. And Jimmy Kimmel

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Speaker 1: took his time to cry on National TV.

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Speaker 2: When did late night comedy shows become? Like, I think

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Speaker 2: what happened. I remember reading that when Colbert moved over,

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Speaker 2: that Kimmel's people were thinking he needed to become more

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Speaker 2: political because Colbert was going to bring this daily show

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Speaker 2: background and really get ratings by leaning into political comedy,

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Speaker 2: and so they wanted Kimmel to do more of that.

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Speaker 2: It's still a late night comedy show you and I

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Speaker 2: think that's where they've lost their ways, by losing their

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Speaker 2: brand of Like if you're doing silly celebrity interviews but

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Speaker 2: then also using your monologue for a tear filled, scolding

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Speaker 2: speech at your audience, this.

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Speaker 1: Arrogant, condescending, laughable speech by Kimmel, I want it, I

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Speaker 1: feel like honestly, and I like Jimmy. I've known him

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Speaker 1: for years. He's lost himself, Like he's so like the

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Speaker 1: I just wonder if they're in this echo chamber, if anybody,

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Speaker 1: if any like normal person's behind the scenes going Jimmy,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing like you got to go out

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Speaker 1: and do a show tonight?

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Speaker 2: I want to put We said this in the last

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Speaker 2: episode and I'll say it again. What we're here to

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Speaker 2: do is an the last episode where we talked about

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Speaker 2: the election. What we're here to do is analyze the media.

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Speaker 2: We are both members of the media. That's what we

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Speaker 2: built our careers on. We interviewed celebrities. I won't say

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Speaker 2: I am, but you are money a celebrity I'd never feel.

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Speaker 1: We also love producing TV and you got it and

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Speaker 1: how you produce TV to do what it's supposed to do,

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Speaker 1: which is get ratings.

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Speaker 2: So exactly, and that's I think the biggest reason why

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Speaker 2: we've been so fascinated by this election cycle is you know,

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Speaker 2: the media is and TV shows and news are supposed

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Speaker 2: to play to audiences, right, You're supposed to get ratings.

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Speaker 2: We are not here to and we never endorsed anybody

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Speaker 2: for president. We're not here to tell anybody who to

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Speaker 2: vote for or look or to scold you for her

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Speaker 2: you did vote for. We are here to talk about

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Speaker 2: the way the media is handling this and that's where

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Speaker 2: our interest and analysis lies. And the biggest thing to

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Speaker 2: me when I see Kimmel crying or and I know

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Speaker 2: you're going to get into Colbert. The popular vote also

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Speaker 2: went to Donald Trump. So aren't you thinking about wanting

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Speaker 2: more people to watch your show? You're yelling at your audience.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just the late night hosts, it's news

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Speaker 2: media too, and we'll get into that. So back to

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Speaker 2: Kimmel and Colbert.

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Speaker 1: And what I find interesting is, and we did this

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Speaker 1: on the Battery, you did it on Entertainment tonight. You

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Speaker 1: would have these kind of you know, post mortems every quarter,

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Speaker 1: every time ratings come out. And according to Nielsen, across

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Speaker 1: the board, the late night shows are dropping viewers like flies,

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Speaker 1: every one of them across the board. I just looked

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Speaker 1: two minutes before we recorded this. I looked everybody as

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Speaker 1: Nielsen ratings are down over Q one. So while they've

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Speaker 1: been covering this election stuff, while they have been unabashedly

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Speaker 1: just crushing one side and making this so political and

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Speaker 1: not really making jokes, they've lost viewers. So if I'm

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Speaker 1: in the rooms is an executive prision yeah, or if

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Speaker 1: I'm at Kobert any of these, I'm like, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: go out tonight and look, we don't need to praise Trump,

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Speaker 1: we don't need to be someone we're not. But let's

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Speaker 1: crack some jokes about the vaunted ground game of Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 1: Just again, don't be mean. How wrong the polls, how

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Speaker 1: wrong the polls were. Everybody thought it was a close call.

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Speaker 1: You're right, the comedy was there. The comedy's there, and

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Speaker 1: you don't have to be mean to anybody, but you

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Speaker 1: can be funny because clearly one side could not have

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Speaker 1: missed it worse, like make fun of MSNBC, make fun

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Speaker 1: of CNN. Like you don't have to make fun of

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Speaker 1: the actual candidate, but you can have so much fun

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Speaker 1: with what just happened, and we can all, you know,

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Speaker 1: cry together or laugh together or whatever. So that was Kimmel.

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Speaker 1: Kimmel came out and instead of doing anything close to that,

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Speaker 1: he cried, literally cried, and told everyone how they lost.

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Speaker 1: Stephen Colbert, who, as you said, did find an audience

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Speaker 1: early on because he was so political and he's kind

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Speaker 1: of stuck to it. But he came out and instead

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Speaker 1: of doing something funny, he said, we still don't know

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Speaker 1: the entire parade of clowns, degenerates and in laws that

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Speaker 1: Trump will have running this country. But one guy we

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Speaker 1: know we'll have a major role is RFK Junior. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with him, it's probably because he

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Speaker 1: ran for president and nobody cared.

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Speaker 2: That's not even true. I mean, that's what's wild he had.

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Speaker 2: If nobody cared, then how come it made a difference

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Speaker 2: when RFK jumped in and brought his supporters over to Trump.

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Speaker 1: Well, how come you're doing a stand up about it?

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Speaker 1: And by the way, Colbert, in the most typocritical way,

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Speaker 1: has had RFK on several times and lauded over him

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Speaker 1: and kissed up to him and told him how great

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Speaker 1: he was.

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Speaker 3: To me.

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Speaker 2: When late night comedy, when SNL, when journalism as well,

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Speaker 2: I'll throw it in there. When it's solid. Its most

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Speaker 2: brilliant is when you are the middle ground, analyzing both sides.

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Speaker 2: It's making fun of both sides, critiquing both sides. That's

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Speaker 2: when I feel the most connected as a viewer, and

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Speaker 2: I have the empathy. Of the problem we have is

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Speaker 2: that the more clearly one sided properties like an MSNBC

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Speaker 2: Era A Fox have upped their ratings in recent years

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Speaker 2: because people go to what they connect to. I guess

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Speaker 2: it's people like kind of go to where they feel

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Speaker 2: like they're hearing. They're hearing themselves, is what the ratings

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Speaker 2: might show. But in the end, right one group's going

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Speaker 2: to lose. Next time another group might lose. So to me,

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Speaker 2: there's a smart business move in maintaining being that neutral

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Speaker 2: ground over time. To me, it's the long game, it's

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Speaker 2: the big picture. What do you think from a ratings perspective.

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Speaker 1: We can go further now and talk about the Nielsen ratings.

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Speaker 1: As we were talking about, you know the fact that

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Speaker 1: the election coverage on election night is the super Bowl,

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Speaker 1: It's the biggest night for the press. And we've now

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Speaker 1: gotten the Nielsen ratings for some of the media post election,

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Speaker 1: so this last week and it's staggering. And now, look,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to defend these numbers and the bleed off

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Speaker 1: of these numbers because they are devastating. But remember if

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Speaker 1: you just played in the super Bowl, that's Election night

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Speaker 1: the next day, there is a hangover effect. There's a

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Speaker 1: fatigue in your audience. They are tired. They're not going

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Speaker 1: to tune in in masks like they were. It would

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Speaker 1: be like having the culmination in the final rows of

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Speaker 1: The Bachelor and the next night doing another show. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you've got to give people a break. So I want

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Speaker 1: to say there is a little bit of a caveat

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Speaker 1: with these numbers, But these numbers are so big that

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Speaker 1: it is pretty breathtaking and it's pretty noticeable. Nielsen ratings

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Speaker 1: plunge at MSNBC since Trump was elected the forty seventh

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Speaker 1: president of the United States. One example, Wednesday to Friday,

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Speaker 1: so obviously the election was super Tuesday. Joe his first hour,

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Speaker 1: down forty percent, his second hour. This is Joe Scarborough

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Speaker 1: and Mika down thirty seven percent, Andrew Mitchell down forty percent,

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Speaker 1: Ari Melber down fifty percent, Joy Reid, who's been easily

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Speaker 1: the most outspoken propaganda machine for the Democratic Party, down

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Speaker 1: fifty four point six percent, all in with Chris Hayes

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Speaker 1: down forty seven percent, Alex Wagner tonight not sure what

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Speaker 1: that is, but down fifty three percent, Lawrence o'donald down

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Speaker 1: sixty percent, and Stephanie Rule down sixty seven percent. Even

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Speaker 1: with the fatigue, as I try to give them an out,

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Speaker 1: holy cow, that is no.

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Speaker 2: Those numbers are staggering. And I think I mentioned earlier

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Speaker 2: that some I mentioned that maybe CNN had done worse

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Speaker 2: than MSNBC on election night, and now there's like a

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Speaker 2: little bit of back and forth about like the way

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Speaker 2: that that was presented. No, no, I'm sorry. Okay, so

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Speaker 2: on elections, Okay, let's go to Thursday. MSNBC brought in

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Speaker 2: Thursday after election night only five hundred ninety six thousand

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Speaker 2: total average daily viewers. CNN had just four hundred and

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Speaker 2: nineteen thousand. I mean these numbers in comparison, Fox News

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Speaker 2: number one with two point six million viewers. So I

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Speaker 2: think that speaks a little bit to what you were

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Speaker 2: just saying. Those numbers you just listed, those percentage drops

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Speaker 2: are staggering if you factor in. Okay, maybe there's fatigue,

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Speaker 2: but then why on the Thursday after the election is

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Speaker 2: Fox two point six million versus MSNBC five hundred ninety

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Speaker 2: six thousand.

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Speaker 1: Let me just throw at this theory. When the Dallas

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Speaker 1: Cowboys lose, and they lose badly like they did this week,

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Speaker 1: I won't watch SportsCenter. I don't want to hear Steven A.

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Speaker 1: Smith and all the pundits just rip on the Cowboys

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Speaker 1: and tell me how bad my team sucks. So that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what this is. Are you going to go

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Speaker 1: back and just listen to how bad your team sucks

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Speaker 1: and how bad you lost for the next week, or

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Speaker 1: are you going to take a big break from that?

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Speaker 1: And Fox people are like, oh good, I get to

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Speaker 1: just hear people that's true.

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Speaker 2: We're in the win. Yeah, revel the win on MSNBC,

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Speaker 2: Like part of me wonders though, would you tune in

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Speaker 2: and like you and I are not MSNBC watchers, We

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Speaker 2: just flip in and out on ye Election nights are

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Speaker 2: a big political, big news moments between all the channels.

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Speaker 2: But would you tune in to like feel like you're

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Speaker 2: with your people still and to feel like maybe there's

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Speaker 2: hope or to feel or to even wonder where did

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Speaker 2: we go wrong? I don't know. Give me that sports

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Speaker 2: analogy back, like would you go and listen to a

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Speaker 2: podcast about the Cowboys loss and wonder and people speculating

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Speaker 2: what do they do wrong and how can they do

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Speaker 2: better in the future? Or would you just tune it

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Speaker 2: all out?

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Speaker 1: I think which to go? And there's a theme throughout

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Speaker 1: this podcast the authenticity you're seeking authenticity and when you

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Speaker 1: go see and I've I've watched MSNBC this week and

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Speaker 1: I've watched CNN. I've watched them all and when you

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Speaker 1: see Joy Reid not have any sort of her and

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Speaker 1: Rachel Madda'll not have any sort of revelation or open,

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Speaker 1: honest look in the mirror of what really went wrong.

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Speaker 1: And now instead they're just doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on

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Speaker 1: the same message they were giving you before. I think

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Speaker 1: there is a fatigue there of like enough is enough.

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Speaker 1: And clearly, as I look at these numbers, people have

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Speaker 1: said enough is enough and they are walking away from

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Speaker 1: that network in droves, and that those numbers can't just

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Speaker 1: be explained by fatigue. That is, that is when you're

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Speaker 1: up in the fifties and sixty percent of your audience,

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Speaker 1: think about that, what's mass?

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Speaker 2: That is scary over half your people? That's wild. I

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Speaker 2: do want to look back. I don't have numbers, do

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Speaker 2: you on how what they're how that compares to numbers

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Speaker 2: like pre the past couple months, if you're comparing MSNBC

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Speaker 2: just on an average month versus this had really been

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Speaker 2: election season.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, clearly, clearly, if they're down, you know, fifty

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Speaker 1: sixty percent, you can just double those numbers to where

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Speaker 1: were pre And obviously again the lead up to the

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Speaker 1: super Bowl, and the super Bowl itself is huge, so

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Speaker 1: those numbers are going to drop, but these were just

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Speaker 1: so glaring and astronomical I wanted to bring them up.

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Speaker 1: The only thing you can definitely be guaranteed in politics

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Speaker 1: in the United States of America is the pendulum will swing.

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Speaker 1: It always has. I've only been alive fifty three years,

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Speaker 1: and i have seen it swing from Jimmy Carter to Reagan,

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Speaker 1: back over to Obama and Clinton and back over to

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Speaker 1: the Bushes and back over to you know, it will

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Speaker 1: always swing and you don't ever need to worry about it.

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Speaker 1: That's going to happen. I just I wonder, like, why

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Speaker 1: isn't anybody in the room saying, hey, let's go out

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Speaker 1: and perform Jimmy or Steven, like, go out and be

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Speaker 1: funny tonight, let's really let's let's be bigger than this

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Speaker 1: and let's crush it. And the fact that they just can't,

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Speaker 1: Like I would sit in that room and as an

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Speaker 1: executive producer and say, you got to get over yourself.

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Speaker 1: What you're telling me, and all you're saying is your feelings.

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Speaker 1: I feel this, I feel this. I don't mean to

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Speaker 1: be cruel. But I don't care how you feel right now, Jimmy.

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Speaker 1: What I want you to do is go perform.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the day, you're a late night

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Speaker 2: comedyost instead of being a comedian. You went out there

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Speaker 2: and you cried.

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Speaker 1: This takes me back to whin. I got in a

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Speaker 1: shouting match with an executive on my show. This is

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Speaker 1: during the last campaign between Trump and Hillary Clinton, and

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Speaker 1: we were doing a live a tape show and I

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Speaker 1: got called off the set up and berated, very vocally

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Speaker 1: abused in front of everyone in the control room because

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't make a Trump joke and I wouldn't basically

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Speaker 1: support Hillary Clinton. And it wasn't that I didn't support

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, and it wasn't that I didn't love hate Trump.

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Speaker 1: But I said, that's not who we are, that's not

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Speaker 1: what we do. The people that are tuning in on

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Speaker 1: Monday night to watch the Bachelor Bacherette are not like man.

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Speaker 1: I hope they really get political tonight, and I hope

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Speaker 1: they solve our political problems. They're escaping to us. When

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Speaker 1: I watched Saturday Night Live, when I watch Jimmy Kimore Colbert,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to laugh. I want I tuned in

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Speaker 1: and be like, oh my god, they're going to crush

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Speaker 1: it tonight. Their monologues are going to be amazing. If

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Speaker 1: you're a comedy writer, this is manna from heaven. And

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Speaker 1: they couldn't have failed and missed the mark more and

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Speaker 1: it just it makes me sad for them. It makes

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Speaker 1: me sad for the viewers they've killed. Late Night. The

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Speaker 1: ratings have dropped across the board, you know, the number

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Speaker 1: one late night show in America. Greg Guttfeldt on Fox

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Speaker 1: News By Far, I want to say three at least

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Speaker 1: three x the ratings of all the other late night

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Speaker 1: shows that considered.

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Speaker 2: So I've seen little clips, but I've never fully watched it.

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Speaker 2: Is it like a comedic at all?

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Speaker 1: He does a roundtable thing, he has consistent and gut

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Speaker 1: Felt's very you know, whether you think he's funny or not,

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Speaker 1: he's comedic. He writes his jokes and they're very you know.

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Speaker 2: Like so it's more political, but a little.

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Speaker 1: Comm tongue in cheek, lighthearted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the other one that had did go up, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of skewed. Comedy Central's their their show has gone

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Speaker 1: up because obviously the Daily Show on Comedy Central the

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Speaker 1: return of John Stewart was a big part of that.

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Speaker 1: So those were skewed early. It's dropped since John Stewart's return,

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Speaker 1: but Comedy Central is notably up as well. And the ratings,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get into this, that kind of momentum carried

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Speaker 1: into election night as well. For and we we theorized

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Speaker 1: and hypothesized of what we thought the ratings were going

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Speaker 1: to be about network News versus cable, and we were right.

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Speaker 1: We were right about network Everybody was down. The overall

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Speaker 1: election coverage in our viewership was down. But who did

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Speaker 1: well cable networks? Who was a disaster? The actual networks

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Speaker 1: which is just such a again it's still partless, yes,

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Speaker 1: and that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's ABC, NBC,

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Speaker 1: CBS was barely on the board. And you know, ABC

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Speaker 1: was the best of the worst than NBC, than CBS.

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Speaker 1: But who led coverage? Fox, MSNBC, CNN.

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Speaker 2: And I think CNN did the worst of those things.

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Speaker 1: They were that they yeah, they were the worst of

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Speaker 1: all those which.

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Speaker 2: Look at Also, that's what it speaks to, is what

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Speaker 2: I just said. I mean, people do seem to want

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Speaker 2: to go to where they're going to feel their opinions

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Speaker 2: are matched, and that scares me. I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: a good way to live. I've said this before. I

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Speaker 2: try on social media to follow people I don't agree with.

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Speaker 2: On election night, I flip back and forth between the

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Speaker 2: channels because I want to be exposed to other voices

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Speaker 2: to keep a good perspective. But you know, also there's

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Speaker 2: something to like the importance of a talent that people

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Speaker 2: connect with. People like to feel like, oh, I like

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Speaker 2: and trust Anderson Cooper, or I like and trust and

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Speaker 2: watch you know, Brettbear, whoever it is.

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Speaker 1: And I guess that's what's crazy is when I grew up,

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Speaker 1: it's just like I'm going to watch Dan rather I'm

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Speaker 1: going to watch Tom Brokaw. The networks owned those faces

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Speaker 1: and voices, and now I think, to your point, the

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Speaker 1: cable news networks own those characters.

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Speaker 2: That back then you went to those personalities because you

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Speaker 2: felt you would get trusted news, and that now people

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Speaker 2: feel they like the opinion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that. I think the idea when

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Speaker 1: I was younger was this is unbiased news, and now

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Speaker 1: that we know that they are biased, I think people

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Speaker 1: feel like, well, if I know George Stephanopolis does not

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Speaker 1: have a journalistic take at all, Like he journalism's gone.

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Speaker 1: So George Stephanopolis is just a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 1: So if you're going to get a really bad take

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Speaker 1: from George and ABC News, I'll just go to CNN

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Speaker 1: and or MSNBC and really and really get like Rachel

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Speaker 1: matt Hower read that a really propagandist or Tucker Carlson

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Speaker 1: or whoever who's really in the propaganda of the right.

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Speaker 1: You know, like, if you're going to go that way,

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Speaker 1: I might as well just go all the way.

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Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think that that's the problem

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Speaker 2: is that the networks didn't stay, didn't keep that level

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Speaker 2: of trust of being unbiased, of being if they'd maintain that,

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Speaker 2: but I think they lost it the last time Trump

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Speaker 2: and in twenty sixteen was when it became really evident

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Speaker 2: how people felt, and that is I agree, that's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Is it's not being clear because it's a lack of authenticity,

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Speaker 2: and then it's a lack of trust. Like if you're

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Speaker 2: gonna be someone who really stands one way, you have

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Speaker 2: to be honest and own that and say I am

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Speaker 2: an opinion journalist or whatever the phrase we want to

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Speaker 2: use for it is. You can't say no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm a journalist when it's so clear that you feel

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Speaker 2: one way like you have to own it or not

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Speaker 2: one person. That's like and I think it all changed again.

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Speaker 2: It leaned even more towards showing that this time because

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Speaker 2: I think of the debate and David Muhr. I held

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Speaker 2: David muirorup as someone who I thought he stayed pretty

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Speaker 2: I did too straightforward.

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Speaker 1: And I've heard nothing but good things about him.

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Speaker 2: I was like, that man is an old school like

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Speaker 2: he just reports the news and keeps it even. And

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Speaker 2: then the way that he was in the debate of

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Speaker 2: only fact checking Trump and not Harris, I thought wow.

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Speaker 2: And then he tried to do we talked about on

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Speaker 2: the podcast. He tried to do that apology tour the

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Speaker 2: next day. I'm different, like I'm Live with Kelly and

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Speaker 2: not really an apology tour, but sort of trying to

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Speaker 2: justify the way he was. And I thought, no, you've

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Speaker 2: lost me. I've seen big.

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Speaker 1: Shadow of Dana Walden who runs ABC News, and that

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Speaker 1: lauded over him as well. You know, I go back

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Speaker 1: and this will be an interesting kind of if there

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Speaker 1: was such a thing as self reflection, and clearly there's not.

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Speaker 1: Is that this is the whole point of this podcast.

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Speaker 1: There is zero self reflection from the media. And that's

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Speaker 1: what I find fascinating. I go back to that Republican

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Speaker 1: debate the first time. I remember, like Jeb Bush and

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Speaker 1: who was like maybe Ted Cruz, I was trying to

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Speaker 1: think he was in that debate when they debated Trump

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Speaker 1: for the first time, and they went in for a

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Speaker 1: presidential primary debate for the Republicans, and you know, Trump

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Speaker 1: came in just like it was like so like like

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Speaker 1: a college frat boy showed up and just like disrupted

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Speaker 1: this tea party, and it was like nobody knew how

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Speaker 1: to handle him. And I found that fascinating. I remember

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Speaker 1: they were just like, you know, Jeb Bush, who was

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Speaker 1: the heir apparent, I mean, he was a Bush and

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Speaker 1: he's going to be our presidential nominee and he just

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Speaker 1: fumbled and bumbled and he lost the primary to nobody

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Speaker 1: knew how to handle him. Donald Trump was living rent

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Speaker 1: free in all their heads. Everyone just was like befuddled

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Speaker 1: on how to handle him. And I feel like the

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Speaker 1: same thing happened to the media. At first. They treated

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Speaker 1: him with kid gloves and a comedian.

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Speaker 2: He was the guy from The Apprentice, right right, he's

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Speaker 2: one of that.

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Speaker 1: He had been on all these shows. He had been

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Speaker 1: on the View, he went on Jimmy Fallon, he did

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, and when he became a candidate, it

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is going to be fun. We're

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Speaker 1: going to do bits with Donald Trump because he's so comedic.

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Speaker 1: He's really good at this stuff. That's why he's been

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Speaker 1: on SNL. He's funny.

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Speaker 2: Now Trump actually has good comedic timing. He does.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is, all of a sudden there was

433
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: a turn of like, oh crap, he's actually going to

434
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: beat Hillary Clinton. We have aid it and embedded in

435
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: all this what do we do? And then from there

436
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: on there was this tipping point, as Malcolm Gladwell would say,

437
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 1: where he has lived rent free in everybody's head and

438
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: nobody no intellectuals. And there are so many smart people

439
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: on both sides of the aisle, you know, opposed to

440
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: what Jimmy Kimmel says, there's brilliant people on both sides

441
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: of the aisle. Nobody's been able to crack the code

442
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: of how do we handle this guy who's a bully

443
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: he's bombastic. Yes, he tells very tall tales. As Joe

444
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: Rogan says, he bobs and weaves, and he goes on

445
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: these weird tangents about rockets and stuff.

446
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: I think Trump says that about himself.

447
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. But nobody has cracked the code of how

448
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: do we unpack this and how do we handle it?

449
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: And my point was, don't feel bad because the Republicans

450
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: couldn't figure it out either. They couldn't beat him in

451
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: their own house. The media has just not been able

452
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: to figure out how do we crack the code of

453
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: how do we handle.

454
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: It's the balance of how do we cover him?

455
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: But you know what, and I don't have the answer.

456
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: I'm not brilliant. I don't have the answer, but I

457
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: just know that what's happened has clearly not been the answer.

458
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 2: Well, what has happened from a lot of media has

459
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: been that they've you know, I mean MSNBC footage of

460
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: his rally up against footage of Hitler's rally from Madison

461
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: Square Garden. I mean, what has happened I think is

462
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: last time it was more playful, and so this time

463
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 2: they leaned so hard into like, no, he's this villain

464
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: and however you feel whoever you voted for, the popular

465
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 2: vote has shown that the country does not feel that way.

466
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: And so again when you go back to that discussion

467
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: of like how do you handle it? I believe journalists

468
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: should be the voice for the voice of the people.

469
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 2: I think they should critique across the board. I think

470
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 2: if you're going to be a more opinionated journalist and

471
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 2: be on a cable network that has more of a slant,

472
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: you have to own that. And to me, the biggest

473
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 2: you know, now we're in this election blame game, right

474
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: and everyone in the in is analyzing and has their

475
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: sources on and who's to blame? And as you pointed out,

476
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: I think the biggest who's to blame meaning for the

477
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: Harris loss. And I think, as you pointed out, the

478
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: biggest thing that's not happening is that both media and

479
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: I would say a lot of people in the Democratic

480
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 2: Party aren't looking in the mirror. I think overall the

481
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: biggest issue has been a lack of authenticity and a

482
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: lack of connection to your audience. And I would say

483
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 2: that to both the media and the Democratic Party. And

484
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 2: I probably have to say that because I think there's

485
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 2: a lot of overlap. The statistics just show the media

486
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 2: is overwhelmingly democratic.

487
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: Like well, that's why you know when you say that

488
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: dominated the ratings, and they dominated election night ratings by far.

489
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: There's only one network where where Republicans go. There's only

490
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: there's out of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, those are

491
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: clearly hugely liberal Democratic staunch supporters, there's only one place.

492
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: So all Republicans basically went to Fox News. So Fox

493
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: gets thirteen million, and you know ABC got five million.

494
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: So if Fox Fox News, a cable network, did over

495
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: two x what Abc News did, a network with massively,

496
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: massively more reach, that's what Fox did and they completely

497
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: dominated the landscape. But again, there's only one place to

498
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: go if you really want to hear your side, and

499
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: you're on the right. So it is a little bit

500
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: of misleading numbers because Democrats are spread across the board.

501
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: And so when you look at the blame game, and

502
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: this is what's interesting, and to expand on your point,

503
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: if they really wanted to beat Donald Trump, if they

504
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: really wanted to and when I say they, if I'm

505
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: met CNN, MSNBC or whatever, and you really want to

506
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: beat Donald Trump with which they do wholeheartedly. They would

507
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: have not given him any oxygen. You just don't cover

508
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: him and don't talk about him. That's how you treat

509
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: a bully, right, If you have a bully and they've

510
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: called him a bully many times, what would you do

511
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: in school? Ignore? Don't give it oxygen. But here in

512
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: lies the hypocritical problem. The best ratings in the world

513
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: for MSNBC, CNN, all of them are with Donald Trump

514
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: in the lead. So if Donald Trump went away, so

515
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: do their ratings. This is really the best thing that's happened.

516
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: They won't say this quiet part out loud, but the

517
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: best thing they could have hoped for is Donald Trump.

518
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: That gives Rachel mattout Joy read Anderson Cooper endless amounts

519
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: like don't believe they're tears.

520
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 2: Well, ratings when Trump was in the White House were

521
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: way higher dar Biden was. Yet there's a lot of

522
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: a lot of news happening.

523
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so in this will continue right now, they

524
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: took a hit, But the best thing that happens for

525
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: them is now they have news for the next four years.

526
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: They can tell you what's wrong in the world. And

527
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: that that is immediately you know, was there a Mara

528
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: Kopa was there a about face of guys, this is

529
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: what went wrong with our our plan with getting Biden

530
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: out and getting Kamala in and not having an election.

531
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: There was no primary. Nobody really elected her. Like there

532
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: were so many things that went wrong on the Democratic side.

533
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: There's a laundry list of problems. There wasn't one thing.

534
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,239
Speaker 1: There were a million things that went wrong. Instead of

535
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: that laundry list, I think Bernie Sanders is anyone that's

536
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: really kind of hit back. But there's a laundry list

537
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: of things that went wrong. And instead of like, guys,

538
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: this is what we did wrong, it's the first day

539
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: was Trump Trump, Trump Trump. He still lives rent free

540
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: in their head, but now he's going to help them

541
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: pay the rent for another four years. So it's it's

542
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: it is this kind of interesting. You know, they're really

543
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: opposing feelings of God, do we want him to go away? God?

544
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: We love it when he's in the White House. It's

545
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: a tough it's a tough inner battle. But now they

546
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: have something to talk about because if they had it

547
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: their way, let's say they had the House, the Senate

548
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: and Kamala Harris, what the hell are you going to

549
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: talk about for four years, It's true, it's Trump's fault again.

550
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: I mean, they spent the last four years blaming Trump.

551
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: How could you spend the next four years. How could

552
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: you spend the next four years the better part of

553
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: a decade blaming someone who's not in office. They were

554
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: kind of running out of rope there. So it is

555
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: very interesting. So I'm just saying, be careful when you

556
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: hear the when you see the crocodile tears, because they're

557
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: also laughing their way to the bank.

558
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: Well, you're pointing to the conflict of on the one

559
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: hand that we heard from a lot of media, like

560
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 2: you know, critiquing Trump and Trump is is evil and so,

561
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: and the promoting of Kamala Harris and that. I mean, look,

562
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: I'll take Time magazine, for example, without an interview from her,

563
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 2: they put her on the cover with the headline her moment,

564
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: no critique, just an article when Trump. When the assassination

565
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: attempt on Trump happened, I watched Times Instagram they first

566
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 2: posted their cover and it was the photo of him

567
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: with his fist in the air, and I was like, wow,

568
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: what a poignant cover that. You know, We'll go down

569
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: in history an assassination attempt on a former president. At

570
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: some point they changed the cover. They changed it to

571
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: a different photo where he was lying on the ground,

572
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: and I thought, wow, who made the call and said, hey,

573
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: that photos like makes him look too powerful. You need

574
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: to change it. There's no other way to read that

575
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: to me. And so they're stuck between do we, you know,

576
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: promote and help and support Kamala Harris becoming the president

577
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: because so many of us we are so democratic, that's

578
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: the way we all lean and you know, that's not

579
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: even getting into like who's paying the bills and everything,

580
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: or we also do want Trump in the White House

581
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: because of the ratings and oh also so we have

582
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: to kind of appear like we're like, we're not so

583
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 2: biased and we're critiquing both sides. And what all that

584
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: boils down to to me is what I just said

585
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: a few minutes ago. A lack of authenticity. That's where

586
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: they've lost their way own what you are as a brand,

587
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: be who you are as a brand. It's just what

588
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: you were talking about with The Bachelor, where you're like,

589
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: this isn't what we are as a brand. When you're

590
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 2: trying to appease too many parties. When you're trying to

591
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: check too many boxes, when you're listening to everybody on

592
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,479
Speaker 2: Twitter and you have your advertisers, and you have your

593
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: own personal feelings and you've got to appear like your

594
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: that's when it's going you're losing because you're trying to

595
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: do too much at once.

596
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: Well, the old saying is if you try to please everybody,

597
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: you please nobody.

598
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: Right, if you stand for everything, you stand for nothing.

599
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: I think when you look at what people will probably

600
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: call this the podcast election, the rise of the podcast Election,

601
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan was simple and clear. He had Trump in

602
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: for three hours in his studio, that's his brand. Did

603
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: he grill Trump as much as and Anden? Did he

604
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: push him as much as you know, maybe a classic

605
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: journalist would have no, but that wasn't his brand. And

606
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: he said he would have done the same thing for Harris.

607
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: She didn't end up wanting to do it, and he

608
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 2: has later come out and revealed well, also part of

609
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 2: that was she didn't want to come to his studio

610
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: and she only wanted to get forty five minutes, and

611
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: her team wanted some editing power, and he said no

612
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: to all those things. He stuck to his brand. Instead

613
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: of getting what could have been, Oh, Harris could be

614
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 2: a big get, he stuck to his brand and I

615
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 2: think that that is that has meant something.

616
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: The comedian Theovonn who also Trump, went on his podcast

617
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: said the exact same thing that the Harris campaign asked

618
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: about editing rights, and they both said the same thing. No,

619
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: we we don't do that. We tape. This is like

620
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: what podcasts are is kind of that live radio feel.

621
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: It is AM radio. You're just you are coming on.

622
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: And this isn't a clean, edited, polished propaganda advertisement. And

623
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: so you know, to your point when people said, well, well,

624
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: two things that I find very funny. One, immediately people

625
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: came out and Democrats and liberals said we need our

626
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: version of Joe Rogan. Guys, I hate to break this

627
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: to you, Democrats, you had him. He was a liberal,

628
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: he's a Democrat.

629
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: A Democratic, and he was a Bernie Sanders fan.

630
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: There Democrats pushed him away and pushed him out of

631
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: the party. It's so funny. I was just like, man,

632
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: could you be more blind to what's going on? He

633
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: was a die hard Democrat. He has ripped both sides,

634
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: but he definitely leaned on that liberal side. But the

635
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: other thing is people said, well, you know, she did

636
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: go on Call Her Daddy Alex Cooper, and this is

637
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: nothing against Alex Cooper or Call Her Daddy. It's a

638
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: hugely successful, huge money revenue making podcast. But that was

639
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: not I think people give too much credit to Joe Rogan,

640
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 1: and I really I'm a fan of Joe Rogan. But

641
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: it didn't have to be Joe Rogan. It could have

642
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: been anybody because the huge difference was podcast A we'll

643
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: call it Joe Rogan was open, you could say anything.

644
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,479
Speaker 1: It was unedited. They talked about crazy stuff, they talked

645
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: about serious stuff. To Call Her Daddy was clearly a

646
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 1: scripted moment. It was Kamala Harris going in giving her

647
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: talking points. There was no follow up, there was no creativity.

648
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: That's what I'm talking about, is the inauthentic thing.

649
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that's what that goes to my point

650
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: of like it just you're comparing apples and oranges. Those

651
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: podcasts weren't the same because she didn't go do a podcast.

652
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: She went and taped a commercial with Alex Cooper.

653
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: Well, let's think about it, like this, Call Her Daddy

654
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 2: is known. How it started was a very sex focused podcast.

655
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: She's expanded from that, but there's still every time she

656
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: has like a Katy Perry or Gwyneth Paltrow on, there's

657
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: a couple sex questions out there. From what I saw,

658
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: I don't think they got into sex at all. So

659
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: and look, by the way, I'm not saying you should

660
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: you're a presidential candidate, but what is Call Her Daddy?

661
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: I think that's why in part that, I mean, you

662
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: could argue it was whether people wanted to hear from

663
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris or not. But I think at least in

664
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: part why it wasn't as Gangbuster's numbers, as even a

665
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: typical Call Her Daddy episode, it wasn't what Call Her

666
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 2: Daddy was. It wasn't even the same set. It's now

667
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: come out from Harris's FEC filings that they paid one

668
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars to build a fake Call Her Daddy

669
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: set for her to do that interview in a hotel

670
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 2: room somewhere. I think because she said she couldn't leave Washington.

671
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: And also I've worked on a lot of sets in

672
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: different newsrooms, from startups to bigger. That was not on

673
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: a hundred one thousand dollars. I don't know where that

674
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: money went, but two chairs and a table and like

675
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: a little signage and some picture frames. That was not

676
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 2: one hundred grand, That was a couple thousand dollars max.

677
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: So whoever you pay to do that, that money was

678
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: not you were ripped off. Well, but it wasn't authentic.

679
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're right, the authenticity of everything. And now

680
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: that things are coming out, and you know, Kamala Harris

681
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 1: one thing you have to give credit for. She came

682
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: in late and she raised a billion dollars. A billion dollars.

683
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: That is staggering, staggering, staggering.

684
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: No matter how you feel politically, it sickens me on

685
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: some level how much our country spells on elections. The

686
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 2: problem is, I guess you have to. But god, it's.

687
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: Now come out that she spent more than a billion

688
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: dollars in that they are either somewhere between eighteen to

689
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars in debt, so they spent over a

690
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: billion dollars. They couldn't even balance their own budget, which

691
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 1: is kind of laughable, but they spent over a billion dollars.

692
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: And then the story came out one of the big

693
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: celebrity endorsers. And you know there's another thing where we

694
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: talked about the day after in the last podcast we

695
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: did about celebrity endorsements.

696
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: There were whether they're worth anything?

697
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think you and I both agree they

698
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: they didn't. They don't move the needle to the good.

699
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: But I do not think they moved the needle to

700
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: the bad. Like were the Avengers and that video cringe worthy?

701
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: And were they ineffective? Yes? Are they laughable sometimes? Yeah?

702
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: But I don't think they I don't think anybody in

703
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: a sase you're deterred, right, I don't think anybody in

704
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania's like Scarlet Johannes.

705
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: For I'm not going to agree. I don't think that happened.

706
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters. I don't think Taylor Swift

707
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: hurt anybody by saying she loved Kamala and if it

708
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: made her feel better, great, So I don't think they

709
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: matter one way or the other. But one thing I

710
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: will say I find very disheartening is now that all

711
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: the filings and all the truth has to come out

712
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: as far as financials, Kamala raised a billion dollars. That's great.

713
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: Now it comes out that Oprah Winfrey. Her, you know,

714
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: arguably the biggest interview in the world that you can get,

715
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: was paid a million dollars. Oprah took a million dollar

716
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: paycheck to interview Kamala in what seemed like a very

717
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: friendly town hall. This is my girl. I got my

718
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: arm around her. I'm endorsing her. This is just me

719
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: being me Oprah, you know, the most genuine face that

720
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: we all trusted. Does it tarnish that feeling of love

721
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: and unity when you realize Oprah took a million dollars

722
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: to do that in ah centic?

723
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that, again, I think is where people are now.

724
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: Media are blaming this group or that group, and that

725
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: just disgusts me. To do that too, is like to

726
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 2: place the blame back on different groups of people who

727
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 2: allegedly didn't show up. It's not to turn around and

728
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 2: blame the average person. These are our elected officials or

729
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,720
Speaker 2: hopeful elected officials. Do your job to win the people over.

730
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: I I really can't handle the media blaming. And again,

731
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: it's bad business blaming their own audiences for whether someone

732
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: won an election. That's a quick way to get people

733
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:16,959
Speaker 2: to turn off the TV.

734
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: You're all you're all stupid, We're smart.

735
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: Honestly so on the celebrity endorsement thing and the oprun

736
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: the one million and authentic, right. I think now we

737
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: spent at the last podcast we asked, is the celebrity

738
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: endorsement dead? I think it might now be buried with

739
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: some of these numbers.

740
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: Well, I can't wait to see more will come out,

741
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: like did what did you know there was one hundred

742
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 1: thousand dollars spent on the call her daddy? Did Alex

743
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: Cooper get a paycheck? Did Beyonce get a paycheck to

744
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: show up? You know? Did all these people?

745
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 2: Has come out that the concerts were paid for? They

746
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 2: had different people perform, like Katy Perry, Megan thee Stallion.

747
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 2: So I think it's come out the concerts were paid

748
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 2: for and I won. I was like, I kind of

749
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 2: thought that's something that I don't know the law on it.

750
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 2: I guess I'm naive. I would have thought that would

751
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 2: have been something that you would have had to disclose

752
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 2: if Oprah was paid to do that interview, But I'm wrong.

753
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: I guess I guess you didn't have to and all

754
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 2: from the beginning.

755
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: I'll be very interested to find out. On the flip side,

756
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: you know, did did the Trump administration or campaign did

757
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: they pay people to do certain things? I did a

758
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: little research and a friend of mine Sage Steele, and

759
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: she won't mind me telling this. I asked her because

760
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: she had been hosting town hall meetings and doing basically

761
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: what Oprah was doing, but for doing it in the

762
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: Trump campaign, for Jade Vance, for Tolsey Gabbard, Danica Patrick,

763
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: all these people. And I asked, you know, are you

764
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: getting paid to do this? And she said, no, absolutely not.

765
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: And she's like, as far as I know, nobody is.

766
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: And I said, are you sure. She's like, as far

767
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: as I know. And that's so it's only one that

768
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: is not scientific. And as a journalist I need at

769
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 1: least two more sources. But at least that source material

770
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: told me we're here on our own volition because we

771
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: believe in this. And again it goes back to your

772
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: word authentic. These people, whether you like them or not,

773
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: are authentic in their belief and why they're there. And

774
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: that comes across.

775
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: And you know the let me let me make the

776
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: smallest comparison here, huh. If you do an ad on Instagram, right,

777
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 2: you have to do hashtag ad hashtag sponsored for this product.

778
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point.

779
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: Why if Oprah is getting paid to do a town

780
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: hall with Kamala Harris, does that not have to be

781
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: disclosed right from the beginning when this is for a

782
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: presidential election for the American people. That kind of blows

783
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: my mind. And I'm not saying that Oprah's job isn't

784
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 2: worth being paid for. Well, yeah, obviously she's the you know,

785
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 2: interviewer of our time, right, but it certainly was portrayed

786
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: as if she was just in support of Kamala Harris

787
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: and this is just what she believed in. And if

788
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 2: I were in that position, if I was going to

789
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: be at the position of I don't know, I would

790
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 2: have just made it clear from the start, Like I

791
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 2: would have come out and said, hey, everybody, you know,

792
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 2: I'm here doing my job tonight. And if she was

793
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: getting paid for it, well then maybe I would have

794
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 2: taken my job very seriously and asked some really probing questions.

795
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you just took kind of my thought

796
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: is like, I really respect Oprah. She's brilliant. Again, whether

797
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: you're a fan of her or not, you cannot deny

798
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: her success. Her success and what she's accomplished she's amazing,

799
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: and I agree with how smart she is, and I

800
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: know she has brilliant people around her. I can't fathom

801
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: that Oprah didn't know this would get out, because you

802
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: have to file this stuff. This all comes out, so

803
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: you know what's going to come out, and it did

804
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: come out. TMZ caught up with Oprah and got a

805
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: comment on this. She looked like she was on her

806
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: morning walk there in Montecito before she was getting in

807
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: her range Rover, and they asked her about taking a

808
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: payment from Harris and receiving this million dollar payout. She

809
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: denied it. She said, absolutely not true. Didn't happen, now, Oprah.

810
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: This is where it gets interesting. Technically, did Kamala Harris

811
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: pay Oprah a million dollars? Well, maybe not, but this

812
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: has definitely happened. Two payments to Winfrey's production company, Harpo Productions,

813
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: can be found under the Harris campaign's disbursements on the

814
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: Federal Election Committee website. This is fact, it did happen.

815
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: The payments of five hundred thousand dollars each were made

816
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: on October fifteenth and are marked as event production. So

817
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: very slippery.

818
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 2: And here's what my speculation is there. Yes, I think

819
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: Oprah said no, absolutely, not in a again i'mating, but

820
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 2: I think she's saying that answer and like a get

821
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 2: kind of around the around the semantics kind of way,

822
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 2: because you could say, oh, well, that was a production

823
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 2: fee or like that was like for the setup or whatever.

824
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: But I looked at that town hall, I don't know

825
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: what a million dollars. I mean it was a studio

826
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: with audience members, and I mean, at the end of

827
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: the day, I think that we have to acknowledge. I've

828
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: heard us say this other members of the media podcast

829
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 2: I listened to. I feel naive, but I was shocked

830
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 2: to find out that Oprah would even take an event

831
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: fee or whatever you want to call that. I was

832
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: shocked to find out that these people playing concerts for

833
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 2: the Harris campaign were paid millions of dollars. To Megan

834
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: the Stallion, to Katie Perry. I thought they were doing

835
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: it like for the campaign. I really thought it was

836
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: a oh, we endorse you and we support you kind

837
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 2: of a thing.

838
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: This report also came out. It has hit several different sites.

839
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: I tried to do a deep dive on this. I've

840
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: looked at several other sources. I can't source it enough

841
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: to call it fact, and you know, I do take

842
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: our journalism serious. But the alleged reports are that Kamala

843
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: Harris gave Beyonce a ten million dollars to speak. She

844
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: didn't sing ten million dollars to speak, and for her endorsement,

845
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: five million went to Megan thee Stallion for the Torking incident,

846
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: three million to Lizzo, one point eight million to eminem

847
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 1: and a million to Oprah. We can absolutely and equivocally

848
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: verify two five hundred thousand dollars payments did go to

849
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: Harpo production, so that did happen. The rest, I have

850
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: to say alleged, but these are all very specific that

851
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 1: somebody if it was just made up. It's very specific.

852
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 1: So it is something that we all have to grapple

853
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: with when you thought that something was so sincere and

854
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: so honest and we were just behind this candidate, and

855
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: then you find millions of dollars and look, over a

856
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: billion dollars went somewhere. We know that she raised over

857
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 1: a billion dollars and now she's eighteen to twenty million

858
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: dollars in debt, So it just it's such a bad look.

859
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 2: It's definitely the nail in the coffin on the celebrity endorsement,

860
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 2: because I think people found celebrity endorsements annoying enough when

861
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 2: they're watching this multimillionaire tell them how to vote to

862
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: then find out that the multimillionaire was paid to do that,

863
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 2: to make those appearances and paid with campaign money that

864
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 2: potentially the average person donated is striking. I think that

865
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: says all we're going to say about whether a celebrity

866
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 2: endorsement is valuable. And I think people are also finding

867
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: an insincere because you heard celebrities really sounding the alarm

868
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 2: on what a Trump presidency would mean, making it seem

869
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 2: like the world's going to collapse if Trump becomes president.

870
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: But you were I'm so worried about the future of

871
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 2: our country that you were okay with taking a payment

872
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: for it. That doesn't look good. I mean, you and

873
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 2: I have done many many charity events. I have you. Ever,

874
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 2: we've never taken money for charity.

875
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: No, I have taken in full disclosure, I've taken money

876
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: for corporate events, for sure, when I'm paid by a

877
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: company to come in and host something that is specifically

878
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: for a company, but never for coming in and for

879
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 1: a charity.

880
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 2: Absolutely not, And I sort of thought it was like

881
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 2: some people take I could never but I kind of assumed, well,

882
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: if this is like a cause, you believe it, it's

883
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 2: along those same lines.

884
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: Well, just the numbers are so staggering. When you are,

885
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: you know, the party of the working man and the

886
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: inflation and all this, and when there are tens of

887
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: millions of dollars going to celebrities, it's just such a

888
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: gross look. It's a really really bad look. And I

889
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: don't know if the media, that's the tough part, is

890
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: so much the media is slanted. Will they dive in

891
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: and try and unearth this, I know some will. Will

892
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: it get any footing, I don't know, but it's definitely

893
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: as this unravels, and that's what this whole podcast is about.

894
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: As things unravel, that is one of the things that

895
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: is quickly unraveling is these endorsements and the payola that

896
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: went along with it.

897
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, you have to like bring in

898
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: I mean, interestingly, Trump being a candidate being president for

899
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: the past eight years or whatever it's been has been

900
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: really interesting from the Hollywood perspective because he was a

901
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: member of Hollywood, you know, I.

902
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: Mean He's a Hollywood darling on.

903
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: The Apprentice, in movies like Home Alone two on Saturday

904
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: Night Live for years, very friendly with people like Oprah

905
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: on Oprah's Shosh. There's past clips of her asking him, well,

906
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: would you ever run for president? One day? On the

907
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 2: view in the past, like he was in that world.

908
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 2: And what's really interesting to me now when you think

909
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 2: about like the celebrity endoor factor is Trump? Like when

910
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 2: I look at the way Trump is a lot of

911
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 2: the time, my my sense goes off of like he's

912
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 2: coming at politics from the perspective of an entertainer. Like

913
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 2: when he's saying a lot of the things he says,

914
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's because he's used to like creating

915
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 2: teases for The Apprentice years ago. You know. He speaks

916
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: in these big ways and makes these wild statements that

917
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: get attention. And I'm hearing a lot of media analyze

918
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 2: now just like how like I think what ended up

919
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 2: happening actually is the Democratic campaign tried to bring in

920
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 2: other celebrities, but it's like Trump is a celebrity on

921
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:49,720
Speaker 2: his own. So it's just interesting the back and forth

922
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 2: of like trying to combat those two things in the

923
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 2: earned media that you get out of big moments like

924
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 2: Beyonce speaking was supposed to be this really big moment,

925
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: but it backfired because I think people thought she would

926
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 2: going to sing and there were headlines about how she

927
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 2: was going to sing, and then you kind of have

928
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 2: Trump just creating these moments for a much cheaper price.

929
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 2: So it's interesting combating celebrity endorsements with a celebrity candidate.

930
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: Here's the funniest irony of it all. Maybe the most

931
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: authentic celebrity is the one that's being blamed for this,

932
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: and the one that's being ripped on George Clooney. The

933
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: Daily Beast wrote an article blaming George Clooney, or is

934
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: George Clooney to blame? Because back in July, there was

935
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: this huge fundraiser in New York and they were raising

936
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars and George Clooney was on stage,

937
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: had his arm around Biden, was touting Joe Biden, how

938
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: great he is, how great he is. Well in July,

939
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: after that event, George Clooney noticed something. He noticed something

940
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 1: that we had all noticed for the last two years.

941
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's in serious mental and physical decline. He's not

942
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: up to the job, according to George Clooney, and he

943
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: wrote an op ed in The New York Times of

944
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: I love you Joe, but it's time to step down.

945
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 1: And that was the beginning of the end of Joe Biden.

946
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 1: And it was the rise of Kamala.

947
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: Harris and was a major term.

948
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 3: Yes, that was a huge because then everybody it legitimized,

949
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 3: it had the ability to speak their mind and start

950
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 3: talking about what we've all been witnessing and what we've

951
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 3: all been watching.

952
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 1: And then that led to the no primary Kamala Harris

953
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: is installed, et cetera, and the debacle that followed clearly now,

954
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: so that's what's interesting is maybe the most authentic celebrity

955
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: who spoke his mind is now being blamed for the downfall.

956
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 2: Not only I don't think took any paychecks, but was

957
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 2: helping raise the money I mean.

958
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,879
Speaker 1: And he has since backed away and walked away from

959
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: all of this.

960
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 2: Well, I haven't really heard from him. There's an article

961
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 2: in Variety. The headline is stop blaming celebrity endorsements for

962
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris loss. We need to hear from artists now

963
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 2: more than ever. Now, I'll be honest, I started reading

964
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 2: this article and it is so long, and I just

965
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 2: couldn't get through it. I read it as well, Well,

966
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 2: then maybe if you read the whole thing, maybe you

967
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 2: can weigh more.

968
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: For you, it doesn't get better read it, It gets

969
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: worse as you read it.

970
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 2: It just wasn't that captivating. But if I just look

971
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 2: at the headline, I agree with the first half of

972
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 2: the headline. Stop blaming celebrity endorsements for Kamala Harris loss.

973
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 2: Blame a million other things. Blame the way the campaign

974
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 2: was run, the way that they use their money, how

975
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 2: long she had, the administration she was coming out of.

976
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 2: There are like a million other things to blame before that.

977
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 2: But we need to hear from artists now more than ever.

978
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, Variety is a Hollywood publication, That's what

979
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,279
Speaker 2: it does, so they're gonna it's in Variety's interest to

980
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 2: protect me artists because that's who they cover. But I

981
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 2: don't know if we need to hear from artists now

982
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: more than ever. I think that what this election has

983
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 2: proven is that the celebrity endorsement does not help. Again,

984
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris had Taylor Swift, the biggest artist in the world,

985
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 2: endorsing her she lost in a landslide. It does not help,

986
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,919
Speaker 2: and I don't think it helps celebrities themselves. I don't

987
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 2: what career benefit are you getting out of this.

988
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 1: If I could rewrite the headline for Variety, and Lord

989
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 1: knows they need help, I would say, don't blame celebrities

990
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: for this. There is zero blame. And George Clooney, you're

991
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: up there, man. You have no blame, no culpability in this.

992
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: We need to hear and see your art. Yes, more

993
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: than ever, art needs to be created the theater, music, comedy.

994
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: We've never This goes back to summizing this entire thing

995
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: and how we started this. We've never needed your art more.

996
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: Stephen Colbert, Jimmy Kimmel, John Stewart, we want you to

997
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 1: promote Perry Beyonce, Oprah. We've never needed your talents more

998
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: this country. One of the things we're known for, and

999
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: you actually brought this up the other day, of the

1000
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: shining beacons on the Hill of America is Hollywood movies.

1001
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: Everywhere I've traveled around the world with the Bachelor Bacherette,

1002
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: we kind of represent that right with they think, oh Hollywood,

1003
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: Hollywood's here. It's no matter where you go. John Wayne

1004
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 1: was huge. People still talk about him. Cline Eastwood, our

1005
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: movie stars are huge, Tom Cruise, and I mean that's

1006
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 1: why our movies are massive in China, they're massive in Russia.

1007
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 1: We are the arts of the world. And Variety came

1008
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 1: so close to writing a good article. But that is

1009
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: what I would have taken. That is, we've never needed

1010
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,760
Speaker 1: your talents and your art more. Go back on stage,

1011
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: go back. We don't need you to rail against half

1012
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: the country. We don't need you to rail against the president.

1013
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying shut up and dribble, shut up

1014
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: and seeing. I respect your opinions, I respect your feelings,

1015
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 1: but at the same time, go kick ass at what

1016
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: you do, and we love you for that.

1017
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 2: What you're talking about is something we learned in journalist school,

1018
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 2: which is show, don't tell show the story, don't tell

1019
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: people how to feel. And I think it applies to

1020
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 2: journalism and it applies to movies, film, TV music. Quote

1021
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 2: from this headline. We need to hear from artists now

1022
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 2: more than ever. I think we need to hear from

1023
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 2: them with their art. That's what you're saying. It's I

1024
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 2: think what this has proven is people don't feel people

1025
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: will feel so much from a Beyonce song. They did

1026
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 2: not feel so much from Beyonce standing on that stage

1027
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 2: for Kamala Harris and telling them because they know, at

1028
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: the end of the day, this is someone who's a

1029
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 2: multi millionaire, who's living a totally different life than me.

1030
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: And it applies, and you can be powerful and you

1031
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 2: can affect change with your art, with your music. In

1032
00:55:51,920 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 2: all those ways.

1033
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: Times of great strife and oppression and anger and war

1034
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 1: have always well, it's always created the best art. Some

1035
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 1: of the best art came out of the World War

1036
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: two era, the like you think of like the artists

1037
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: and the people, the great art of Europe and all that.

1038
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,919
Speaker 1: A lot of that came from that time. And it's

1039
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 1: always been like that. Look at the great music that

1040
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: came out of the rebellion and civil rights and the

1041
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: hippie era and all that. So much great music that

1042
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: kids are still singing today. They may not know what

1043
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: it stands for, but great music comes on right and

1044
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: you think, oh man, this is so write music. Taylor

1045
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 1: Swift writes the greatest breakup songs ever. Her greatest gift

1046
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: has been picking the wrong guy and writing music about it.

1047
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: That's her brilliance, right, write about this, Go make a

1048
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 1: great song and let us listen to it, and let

1049
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: us empathize and sympathize with you through your art. And

1050
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,439
Speaker 1: again I'm not saying don't ever speak your mind.

1051
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 2: Well, Hollywood wasn't always like this, right, it used to be.

1052
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago that. Like when Michael Moore

1053
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: got up and I forget which awards show and he

1054
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 2: critiqued Bush, people were booing him from the audience and

1055
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 2: people were like, this isn't what our awards shows are about,

1056
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 2: and it's gotten.

1057
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: So now if you don't do.

1058
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: That, if you don't do that, then you're messing up

1059
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: your silence is definitely and I think we've had enough

1060
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: awards shows and ratings and all that to prove that

1061
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 2: is not what people at home want. They want to

1062
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: escape with this or they want to feel thought provoked,

1063
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 2: but like able to sit and discuss those thoughts, not

1064
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 2: to be told how to take the arts, not to

1065
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 2: be told how to feel. And like I said, that's

1066
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 2: a phrase from journalism show don't tell. I think it's

1067
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 2: the same with the media. I think that right now

1068
00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 2: the media needs to take a step back, ask what

1069
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 2: their audience wants, not what they want to tell their audience.

1070
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: And I think that media personalities have gotten kind of

1071
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 2: on that level of like movie stars and singers and stuff,

1072
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: in terms of their disconnection from their audience. This week

1073
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: on MSNBC, Joe Scarborough starts talking about the results and

1074
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 2: they're talking about this thing. It's like he can't believe

1075
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 2: that people voted in part because of how expensive groceries are.

1076
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 2: And his wife, who co hosts a show with him,

1077
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: I always say.

1078
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: Her name on it, don't make it present. I don't

1079
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: know if they're still together.

1080
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 2: Oh I thought they were. I don't be wrong.

1081
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I know they were married at one time.

1082
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: I don't know if they still are.

1083
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: But but she goes, well, butter costs seven dollars right now,

1084
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 2: and he goes what he goes, what is it made

1085
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 2: of gold? And I'm like, dude, you just outed yourself.

1086
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: You don't even You're sitting here talking about how you

1087
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 2: can't believe people voted based on groceries and you don't

1088
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: know how much the groceries costs. Like, do their research,

1089
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: do the work, Be in touch with your audience, know

1090
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 2: your audience and what they want. That is part of

1091
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 2: your job. If you want people to tune into you,

1092
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 2: then be in touch with them. And I think that

1093
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 2: media personalities have gotten so overpaid and out of touch

1094
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: clearly that that's part of the problem. Yeah, so in authenticity,

1095
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 2: a lack of connection to your audience, a lack of trust.

1096
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 2: I mean, we were talking about how Rogan and Vaughn

1097
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 2: were saying that Kamala Harris's team wanted editing power and

1098
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 2: they wouldn't give it. I go back to that CBS

1099
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: sixty minutes interview. I would have loved to see CBS

1100
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 2: interview Trump as well, and I would have loved for

1101
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 2: CBS to air both interviews unedited or as we all

1102
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: wanted them to do. After the controversy about the Harris

1103
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 2: interview and how it was edited came out, drop the

1104
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: full transcript. This election has also clearly changed the game

1105
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 2: on when you have podcasters doing three hour interviews with

1106
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 2: presidential candidates, the media is going to have to step

1107
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 2: up the game their game with that and be authentic.

1108
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: You know, it makes me think of call her Daddy.

1109
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: Was that edited and who had the editing rights over that?

1110
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: And all of all the things she did. Uh. There

1111
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: is a lot to learn and take from this, but

1112
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: again I'll urge I'll start with the late night guys.

1113
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: Go on the show tonight and be funny. Go do

1114
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: you you guys are good? You got you got the

1115
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: job for a reason years ago? Remember that, Remember how

1116
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: funny you used to be? The bits on Kimmel that

1117
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: I had a part of many of those.

1118
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 2: And then remember when SNL years ago did a they

1119
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: did a bit like the Whole Sketch where they mocked

1120
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 2: the debate, but they had they were in personing both

1121
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 2: Trump and Clinton. I remember that being really funny.

1122
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: I merry and we watched, like many people, we watched

1123
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live, and I'm like, oh, you know, Bill

1124
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: Burr was on, and I think he's really funny. He's

1125
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: pretty clever. He tried to go both sides. I think

1126
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: he's pretty you know, down the middle with his comedy.

1127
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: But I was watching and I was like, okay again,

1128
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: like the weekend update, like this is going to be funny,

1129
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: Like this again, there's the low hanging fruit is just there.

1130
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: The writers can just have so much fun with this

1131
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: and we can all laugh. Oh, and it just missed

1132
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: so poorly. Go back to doing what you do.

1133
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 2: So well, making fun of everybody, making fun.

1134
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: Of everybody, and be funny and be talented and show

1135
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 1: your art off and be authentic. Be authentic.

1136
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 2: If anyone is looking for some new media sources to follow,

1137
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: I will say I've used Twitter quite a lot just

1138
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 2: following the news on the selection, the selection cycle, probably

1139
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 2: more than anything. One person I've found is Mark Halprin.

1140
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 2: He was I think on ABC at ABC and maybe

1141
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 2: at time for a long time. He's now launched his

1142
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 2: own thing, but he was the first person to break

1143
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 2: the news that Biden was stepping down. So he's deeply

1144
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 2: sourced in Washington, and I always felt like he was

1145
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 2: as I was watching him, I felt like he was

1146
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,320
Speaker 2: giving pretty middle of the road, like solid old school

1147
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 2: type of reporting. So just to shout out to Mark

1148
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 2: Calburn because I thought he did a really good job

1149
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: covering it.

1150
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: You know, I listen to Breaking Points as well. I

1151
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: think they do a good job. They kind of go

1152
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: back and forth, they have really good interviews, and they

1153
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: really cover both sides.

1154
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but we both like that podcast.

1155
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: It's just good. There's media out there, and again I

1156
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: think that's the big problem is even on election night

1157
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: when we saw such drastic numbers. I actually had the numbers.

1158
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: I never really got into how big of a fall

1159
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 1: it was, but it was really a drastic turn of events.

1160
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: According to Nielsen, there was How crazy is this? There's

1161
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: forty two million people overall watching the election?

1162
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 2: Does this mean broadcasting the cable network was broadcasting cable.

1163
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: That's down from fifty seven million who watched in twenty twenty.

1164
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: That is down from seventy one million that watched in

1165
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Wow, that is thirty million, almost thirty million viewers.

1166
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: You've lost, and a lot of that can be attributed

1167
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 1: to the decline of TV in general, terrestrial TV. But

1168
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: there's other options like you and I like, we listen

1169
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: to other people now.

1170
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 2: Well, no, I think that's exactly it. I don't think

1171
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 2: those numbers being down as a reflection of people not

1172
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: caring about the election.

1173
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think to the contrary, more people care and

1174
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: more people are seeking out voices that they want to

1175
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: listen to or can listen to and feel like they're

1176
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: getting news.

1177
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 2: And if I can actually even specify when you said

1178
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 2: a little more, to be clear, I don't think it's

1179
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: that people are seeking out like alternate voices for different opinions.

1180
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 2: I think it's alternate sources and they're looking for more

1181
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 2: of what they can trust. That's just my gut on

1182
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 2: what it is. I think those numbers being down as

1183
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 2: a reflection of I don't trust the TV media anymore

1184
01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 2: and they're seeking their news out elsewhere. Now, I will

1185
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 2: say a lot of the Twitter news like it's sort

1186
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 2: of dependent on big media because a lot of you

1187
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 2: got to find it well well, I mean a lot

1188
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 2: of Twitter news and coverage is like accounts that pull

1189
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 2: little clips from CNN or MSNBC or whatever, and then

1190
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: that spurs discussion. Then they add on reportings. So it's

1191
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 2: almost like the new media needs the old media to

1192
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 2: have something to talk about a little bit. But I

1193
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 2: do think those numbers being down as reflective of people

1194
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 2: using podcasts, using Twitter, using newsletters for other forms of coverage.

1195
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 1: Yes, it was fascinating. It was fascinating to see all

1196
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: this play out of the last week, even since we

1197
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: talked about it the first time.

1198
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 2: Well, I'm predicting. I think we're going to see some

1199
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 2: layoffs in media because those numbers are way down and

1200
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 2: you can always rely on an election for numbers to

1201
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 2: be up. Well, now, yeah, my prediction would be we

1202
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 2: see some layoffs happening.

1203
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: This is their super Bowl, this is this is the

1204
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: new super Bowl. Yeah, your super Bowl is over now

1205
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 1: for another I mean two years. You have you have

1206
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 1: the midterms. That's not that's like the playoffs. You know,

1207
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: the election of the President of the United States is

1208
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: the super Bowl for news and you lost. Right, that

1209
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: was a big l You'd have to look at it

1210
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: as far as advertisers go, money raise, getting the key

1211
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: demographics in it was a big failure. And if you

1212
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: are not as a news director and a president of

1213
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 1: a network reorganizing, rethinking, figuring out how we can adjust

1214
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: course to the wins of change, you're going to be obsolete.

1215
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 1: The late night shows, you are almost already obsolete. You

1216
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: got a course correct here, Try something different because what's

1217
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 1: going on is not working. And I want these people

1218
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 1: to succeed. I'm a big fan of a rising tide

1219
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: lifts all boats. I want Jimmy Kimmel to succeed. I

1220
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: don't dislike Jimmy. I don't just I've never met Kobeir.

1221
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's fine, but I you know, I like

1222
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: it when TV people succeed, because then we all succeed

1223
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: in this business and more people give money to advertisers,

1224
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: et cetera. So I don't root against any of these people.

1225
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: Same thing for the news industry. I want my friends

1226
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 1: in the news industry to succeed. But gosh, you got

1227
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: to do better. You can't keep you know, it's that

1228
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: old definition of insanity. You can't keep doing the same

1229
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,439
Speaker 1: thing and expect to different results. And we've been doing

1230
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 1: the same thing now for the better part of a

1231
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 1: decade and we're getting the same result, and that result

1232
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: is not good. So let's change. Let's be authentic, and

1233
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: let's find our voices and find our talent again, because

1234
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: it's out there and that's what we're yearning for. Thank

1235
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: you for listening, Thank you for being here. We'll do

1236
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 1: it again next time because we have a lot more

1237
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: to talk about. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram

1238
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: at the most dramatic pod ever and make sure to

1239
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 1: write us a review and leave us five stars. I'll

1240
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 1: talk to you next time.