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Speaker 1: Very difficult to keep the line between the.

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Speaker 2: Past and the past.

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Speaker 3: You believe that someone out of the past can enter

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Speaker 3: and take possession of a living beef. We may be

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Speaker 3: through with the past, but the past is.

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Speaker 4: Not through with us.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the next Picture Show, a movie of the

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Speaker 1: Week podcast devoted to a classic film and how it's

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Speaker 1: shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tosh Robinson here.

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Speaker 5: With Genevieve Koski and Keith Pepps.

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Speaker 1: Scott Tobias is off busking in Europe, but we found

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Speaker 1: someone else playing cello on the street and brought him

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Speaker 1: into Phil Scott's chair in the orchestra. Podcaster, musician, culture

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Speaker 1: writer and fan of the show David Chen, who last

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Speaker 1: joined us for a pairing of a Kura Kurasawa's Throne

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Speaker 1: of Blood and Joel Cohen's Macbeth. David has a lot

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Speaker 1: of podcasts and a lot of entros going on at

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Speaker 1: any particular time. But his latest project, which we heartily

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Speaker 1: recommend you check out and which we'll be pointing to

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Speaker 1: some specific aspects of during this pairing, is Decoding Everything,

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Speaker 1: a collection of cultural writing and interviews. You can find

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Speaker 1: it Decoding Everything dot com. Welcome back, to the show.

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Speaker 6: David, it is an absolute thrill to be back. Thank

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Speaker 6: you for the invitation, much though you.

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Speaker 1: Seemed concerned that all of our podcast listeners would run

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Speaker 1: away and terror at your last pairing, and in fact

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Speaker 1: pushed us over the edge. We were taken to the

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Speaker 1: downtown Chicago and given the key to the city. They said,

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Speaker 1: this is what we've been waiting for all along, which

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Speaker 1: makes it odd that we've waited so long to invite

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Speaker 1: you back.

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Speaker 5: David.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, a lot of mysteries.

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Speaker 1: Well, this one's really up your alley. You've already written

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Speaker 1: about one of these movies, and we're going to see

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Speaker 1: what you think about the other one. This week, we're

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Speaker 1: going to be discussing two romantic films where if you

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Speaker 1: look at it a certain way, absolutely nothing happens. Everybody

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Speaker 1: has big feelings, but nobody takes big actions, at least

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Speaker 1: not the kind of like grand romantic gestures. The films

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Speaker 1: like ry Lane, a recent Next Picture Show pick, associate

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Speaker 1: with true romance. Keith, would you like to give listeners

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Speaker 1: a rundown on what we'll be discussing in this pairing?

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Speaker 8: Sure thing, Sleme Songs feature directorial debut, Past Lives follows

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Speaker 8: two few young Korean people through three different phases of

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Speaker 8: their lives, which different barriers separate them. In all three acts.

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Speaker 8: Nora played by Greta Lee and Heyesung played by Tayou

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Speaker 8: grow up together as friends in South Korea, but they're

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Speaker 8: separated in childhood. When Nora's family emigrates to Canada. They

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Speaker 8: reconnect via lengthy online chats in their twenties, but neither

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Speaker 8: of them feels like they're at a time in their

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Speaker 8: lives where they can travel to meet in person. And

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Speaker 8: then they meet in their thirties, both feel like they

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Speaker 8: may have missed a window for romance, especially since Nora

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Speaker 8: is already married to a man. She loves that particular

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Speaker 8: shape of adult love triangle, and in particular ways it's expressed,

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Speaker 8: remind us a lot of John Carney's Once, a low

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Speaker 8: key Irish art house hit, starring musical partners Glenn Hansert

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Speaker 8: and Marquetta Aglova as a duo who meet on the

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Speaker 8: street and feel an obvious attraction that they can't act on,

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Speaker 8: in part because she's already married with a child.

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Speaker 1: The connections between these movies run deeper as Nora works

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Speaker 1: to establish herself as a writer, while the stars of

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Speaker 1: Once are working to establish themselves as musicians. Bolms explore

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Speaker 1: issues of longing, timing, immigration, and what it means to

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Speaker 1: say no to romance. We'll kick off the conversation this

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Speaker 1: week with a street level music of Once, and we'll

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Speaker 1: be back next week with the more cosmic missed connection

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Speaker 1: of past lives.

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Speaker 2: Stay tuned, the the the the.

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Speaker 5: Put you at.

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Speaker 2: This offer is gone.

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Speaker 3: He's dead, he's gone.

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Speaker 9: My father used to play in the orchestra. That can help.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to go for a walk or something.

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Speaker 2: I have to go now say the night.

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Speaker 1: Whenever you watch a movie where one or more lead

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Speaker 1: characters don't actually get names, you know a conscious statement

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Speaker 1: is being made. Maybe it's that they're metas such relatable

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Speaker 1: or iconic figures that they don't need the specificity of

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Speaker 1: identification because their stand ins for anyone, including you. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they have an iconic title instead, like The Bride and

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Speaker 1: Kill Bill. Or maybe obfuscating and exploring an identity is

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Speaker 1: the point, like in Fight Club. Maybe they're just much

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Speaker 1: more important things going on in the story, like in

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Speaker 1: Twelve Angry Men. In John Carney's Once, though, it feels

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Speaker 1: like the leads never get names because they just don't

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Speaker 1: need them. For much of the movie, they explore a

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Speaker 1: relationship that feels so personal it's as if everyone else

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Speaker 1: falls away. They aren't alone at a place where they

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Speaker 1: don't know anyone else, like Jesse and selenin Before Sunrise,

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Speaker 1: or literally alone in the world like the characters in

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Speaker 1: Boca or I Think We're Alone Now. Both have friends

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Speaker 1: and family members who shape their lives in their days.

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Speaker 1: They both have jobs, hobbies, ambitions, and past relationships. And

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Speaker 1: yet they never speak each other's names, because once they're

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Speaker 1: pasted that first awkward street meeting, names seem unimportant. They're

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Speaker 1: both a little too raw and pared down for identity.

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Speaker 1: They're both focused on each other and the dodges and

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Speaker 1: deferrals that define their connection. Identified only as guy and Girl,

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Speaker 1: the leads are played by musicians Glen Hansard and Marquetta Orlova,

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Speaker 1: who met and started performing together when our Glova was

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Speaker 1: thirteen years old. Hansard was a touring musician with his

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Speaker 1: band The Frames, and her Glova's father was promoting his

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Speaker 1: music in the Czech Republic, which led to her performing

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Speaker 1: locally with the band. Hansard and her father became friends,

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Speaker 1: and when Hansard's former frames bassist turned filmmaker John Carney

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Speaker 1: was looking for a female lead and musical collaborator for Once,

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Speaker 1: Hansard suggested her Glova, who was seventeen at the time.

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Speaker 1: The movie follows these two characters as they meet in

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Speaker 1: the streets of Dublin. Guy, an Irish native, works in

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Speaker 1: his father's small shop fixing vack cubes, and he busks

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Speaker 1: in his spare time. Girl, a Czech immigrant, cleans houses,

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Speaker 1: sells flowers in the street, and does other odd jobs.

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Speaker 1: They headed off, with Guy first reluctant over the way

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Speaker 1: she calmly pushes herself into his life and demands things

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Speaker 1: from him, then eventually smitten with her. But while Girl

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Speaker 1: seems to share his feelings, she has an entire life

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Speaker 1: she feels obligated to, including a husband back home and

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Speaker 1: a toddler and mother in Ireland who she's supporting. She

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Speaker 1: holds Guy at a bit of a distance, but that

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Speaker 1: becomes harder and harder as they start to sing, compose,

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Speaker 1: and eventually record together. Once was developed over the course

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Speaker 1: of a few years, with the songs written for the

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Speaker 1: musical and then the film itself shot over a few

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Speaker 1: breakneck weeks without film permits, which left Carney filming his

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Speaker 1: characters from a distance with telephoto lenses in order to

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Speaker 1: hide the cameras from onlookers and give the actors more

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Speaker 1: space to play out their scenes. Her Glove had never

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Speaker 1: acted before, Hansard had a single minor role in the movie.

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Speaker 1: The commitments letting the film play out naturally between them,

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Speaker 1: with some scenes and lines improvised, and with Carney capturing actual,

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Speaker 1: proud responses to Hanson's street busking was part of what

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Speaker 1: gave Once its flavor. So is the established chemistry between

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Speaker 1: her Glover and Hanswerd as singers and musicians who know

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Speaker 1: each other's rhythms, a must for the movie's many musical

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Speaker 1: performance scenes. But the story's focus on love versus obligation

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Speaker 1: and the distance between the characters caught audience's attention as

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Speaker 1: much as the memorable music. The movie was the definition

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Speaker 1: of an art house hit, made for around one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars and bringing in more than twenty

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Speaker 1: million in theatrical release, then going on to win a

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Speaker 1: Best Song Oscar for the lead single Falling Slowly Once

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Speaker 1: was adapted as a stage musical, which spent years on

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Speaker 1: Broadway and swept the Tony Awards in its opening year.

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Speaker 1: Part of that success comes from the way the film's

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Speaker 1: bittersweet ending lingers in people's imaginations. Guy and girl part ways,

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Speaker 1: with him pursuing a musical career and her pursuing reconciliation

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Speaker 1: with her husband. The movie never once suggests that she

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Speaker 1: might be able to do both or chase her own

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Speaker 1: musical dreams, if she has musical dreams of her own

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Speaker 1: at all. But while that might feel like an awkward

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Speaker 1: oaths in another movie, specifically one where the characters are

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Speaker 1: a little more realized and a little less iconic, a

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Speaker 1: little more fixed in time and place, and a little

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Speaker 1: less broad and archetypal, in Once, it feels less like

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Speaker 1: an imbalance between the characters and more like an illustration

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Speaker 1: of two different paths for a working musician. They both

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Speaker 1: have real identities, and they do have a real romance.

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Speaker 1: Once invites the audience to root for them to get

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Speaker 1: together while also understanding while they can't. But Carney also

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Speaker 1: invites viewers to relate to these two primarily through their music,

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Speaker 1: which expresses things they don't always say in words about

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Speaker 1: what exactly their missing in life or aching for including

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Speaker 1: in each other. Music is such a universal invitation that

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Speaker 1: once is nameless, leads end up feeling more like dimly

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Speaker 1: glimpsed implied characters from these yearning, lonely romantic songs than

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Speaker 1: like the messily specific characters they could be. In spite

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Speaker 1: of the movie's title, nothing here really feels like it

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Speaker 1: happened only once in a single place in time. The

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Speaker 1: character's fleeting connection, their longing, and the way they move

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Speaker 1: on feels like things that are meant to happen over

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Speaker 1: and over again in our minds whenever we go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to these songs.

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Speaker 3: What's the check for? Ocean?

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Speaker 9: Pretty much the same O sign?

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Speaker 3: So what are you going to do?

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Speaker 9: I don't know. There's such a distance between me and him.

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Speaker 9: It's so much different to me and so much older.

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Speaker 9: It doesn't really work. I'm fine on my own, you know.

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Speaker 9: It's just I don't want to go to grow up

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Speaker 9: without a fadder?

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Speaker 3: What's the check for?

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Speaker 4: Do you love them?

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Speaker 3: Mirashaw Live? So oh yesha.

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Speaker 1: So this is a pretty low budge film. I talk

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Speaker 1: in the keynote a little bit about how it was.

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Speaker 1: It was filmed gorilla style, kind of before really high

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Speaker 1: def digital cameras could do this kind of like long

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Speaker 1: distance low light thing. The whole movie is a little fuzzy,

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Speaker 1: a little low deaf, at least by today's standards, but

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Speaker 1: making it this way was just very much part of

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Speaker 1: the process that got us kind of the performances in

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Speaker 1: the shape that we got. What do you all make

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Speaker 1: of kind of the filmmaking in once, just in terms

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Speaker 1: of how it's shot, how it's put together.

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Speaker 8: I mean, it's not pretty per se, but I feel

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Speaker 8: like it's it fits. It's in a case of form

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Speaker 8: fitting content.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 8: I actually kind of think it's kind of perfect for this,

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Speaker 8: and you know it is in some ways. They're making

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Speaker 8: in demos of these songs. It's almost like a demo

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Speaker 8: version of a film, and it kind of works that way.

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Speaker 1: That is not a comparison I would have made, but

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Speaker 1: that is the extramely funny, honestly, just the idea of

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Speaker 1: making a demo film, a demo film for the Broadway play.

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Speaker 5: Really yeah, I was enjoying on this rewatch paying attention

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Speaker 5: to the people in the street scenes, knowing that they

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Speaker 5: it was filmed gorilla style and you know, a lot

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Speaker 5: of the extras didn't espssily know what was happening. And

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Speaker 5: the scene where girl is walking out of the store

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Speaker 5: after buying batteries for the CD player, there's like a

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Speaker 5: bunch of young girls like outside and they're like following

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Speaker 5: her and like as she's singing, and you can kind

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Speaker 5: of it feels like like they don't know that a

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Speaker 5: movie's happening. They probably did, probably didn't, but it just

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Speaker 5: like added a really fun kind of layer. Maybe took

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Speaker 5: me out of it a little bit, but you know, don't.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it's a problem. And it's fun, especially

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Speaker 5: on rewatch, to catch those kind of little moments and.

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Speaker 8: That it feels a little unreal anyway.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it actually.

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Speaker 5: Feels like a music video the way it's shot and

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Speaker 5: with the long tracking shot.

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Speaker 6: I think the thing that's really interesting about these kinds

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Speaker 6: of movies that were shot during this time period. The

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Speaker 6: other movie I think of is Twenty eight Days Later,

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Speaker 6: that was also shot on a digital camera. This is

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Speaker 6: like when digital cameras were really starting to come into

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Speaker 6: their own. To be fair, I believe twenty eight Days

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Speaker 6: Later was shot on a different can. I think it

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Speaker 6: was shot in a cannon and this was shot in

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Speaker 6: a sony camera, so it's not the same camera or anything,

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Speaker 6: but I think they're similar in terms of their aesthetics.

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Speaker 6: Is having movies shot on these specific types of digital

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Speaker 6: cameras really dates the movie and sets it at a

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Speaker 6: very specific point in time, because it's so weird. For

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Speaker 6: most of the history of cinema, you have you know,

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Speaker 6: you're shooting on film, right then you have like the

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Speaker 6: burgeoning of these digital cameras that have a very specific aesthetic.

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Speaker 6: They look like old YouTube videos is what I would

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Speaker 6: described them, right and there.

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Speaker 5: It feels like watching something shot on videotape right like

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Speaker 5: right years ago, you know.

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Speaker 6: And then after you know now you can buy you

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Speaker 6: go down the street by camera for like eight hundred

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Speaker 6: dollars that you know, almost looks as good as something

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Speaker 6: you could shoot on film, you know, many years ago.

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Speaker 6: So there's basically like a tiny slice of time when

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Speaker 6: you know it was very obvious and you could easily

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Speaker 6: identify digital cameras is shooting on, like what kind of

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Speaker 6: digital camera was shooting a film?

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Speaker 7: And so the.

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Speaker 6: Effect for me is just like basically associating this movie

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Speaker 6: with just this specific kind of five year period of time,

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Speaker 6: and it's kind of like preserving that time period for us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, preserving specifically the transition from the expensiveness of film

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Speaker 1: to a point where you could make a movie for

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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars again as opposed to

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Speaker 1: the previous times you could make a movie for one

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty per.

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Speaker 6: Would and it would look amazing, you know, it would

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Speaker 6: look like extremely high quality as opposed to this, which

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Speaker 6: is a little bit more data.

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Speaker 7: I think there's.

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Speaker 5: Also that one really interesting scene where he's watching home

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Speaker 5: movies of him and his acts. I think on a

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Speaker 5: computer screen. I don't know's it's hard to tell, but

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Speaker 5: it's like there's there's like another layer of even more

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Speaker 5: like slightly older video within this.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like a montage that happens during one of

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Speaker 6: the songs and you're seeing guys X and it's like

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Speaker 6: an even kind of crappier movie. So it's like others

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Speaker 6: that this film's version of home movies within this film.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, right.

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Speaker 1: I wondered about that sequence because I could have believed

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Speaker 1: that it was shot on videotape deliberately to give it

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Speaker 1: that fuzz. But I just as easily could have believed

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Speaker 1: that those were actual home movies of someone. I don't

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Speaker 1: know who we're seeing there or sort of what the

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Speaker 1: relevance is, but so much of this movie is just

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Speaker 1: on the other side of people kind of being themselves

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Speaker 1: and having their relationships in a movie.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: So much of it is is improvised and ad libd

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Speaker 1: and just like pretty close to the working relationship between

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Speaker 1: Glenn and Marcatta. It would not surprise me if those

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Speaker 1: were like revisited home movies from somebody involved in the film.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember a whole lot very specific there, although

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Speaker 1: I think there is at least one shot of her

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Speaker 1: with Glenn.

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Speaker 8: The ex girlfriend is played by Marcella Plunkett, who doesn't

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Speaker 8: have a lot of credits, but her next credit after

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Speaker 8: well No, she's a couple of things, but Sing Street

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Speaker 8: She's also in Sing Street. So there's definitely things like

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Speaker 8: a Carney associated of self kind.

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Speaker 5: It's all friends and friends of friends in this film,

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Speaker 5: Like that party scene too, that's just all all his

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Speaker 5: friends and his mom saying at other point, very very sweet.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was a nice sequence, although I would

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Speaker 1: I would like just a tiny bit more context when

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Speaker 1: that comes up. It's so as I kind of talked

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Speaker 1: about in the keynote, like they have friends and jobs

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Speaker 1: and hobbies and families and lives. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: something like that is just really out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: When you go from these two people exploring this very tender,

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Speaker 1: very specific relationship to let's walk into a giant room

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Speaker 1: full of people who will never be introduced, who we

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Speaker 1: don't even know whose friends they are at first, and

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Speaker 1: nobody greets them in a very personal way, and then

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Speaker 1: you come to find out this is probably something that

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Speaker 1: guy does on the regular. That's just sort of a

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Speaker 1: collection of people who get together and sing. But the

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Speaker 1: details are all very fuzzy, and it just seems like

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Speaker 1: such a fascinating social scene. I'd love to know just

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Speaker 1: like a tiny bit more about it.

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Speaker 5: It kind of feels to me like a sort of

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Speaker 5: mirror of the scene when Guy comes to girl's apartment

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Speaker 5: and meets her mom and her daughter and the three

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Speaker 5: dudes who come over to watch TV. It's just like

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Speaker 5: each of them kind of being in each other's lives

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Speaker 5: and spaces and being a bit of an outsider. Because

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Speaker 5: you know, she girls in that scene too, She's just

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Speaker 5: like kind of in the background watching him, you know.

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Speaker 5: So I think it's sort of serves as an underlining

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Speaker 5: of the fact that they do have, you know, lives

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Speaker 5: separate from the other person, like not everything else in

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Speaker 5: their life drops away the second did they meet. And

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Speaker 5: that's one of the big complications of this movie.

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Speaker 6: Let me just put this out there, which is that

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Speaker 6: I don't know how many of a present company are musicians,

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Speaker 6: but I'm a musician, and there is a lot of

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Speaker 6: kind of paradoxical dynamics at play, I think when you

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Speaker 6: are a musician making music with other people.

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Speaker 7: Because on the.

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Speaker 6: One hand, it can be one of the most rewarding,

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Speaker 6: satisfying experience, thrilling experiences one has ever participated in, and

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Speaker 6: on the other hand, it's also incredibly transient. You know,

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Speaker 6: it can be extremely transient. Certainly, it's economically precarious, as

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Speaker 6: it's demonstrated this movie, and so it's not like, oh, hey,

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Speaker 6: this is a thing we can do consistently and make

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Speaker 6: tons of money from, like and so sometimes these people

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Speaker 6: float in and out of your lives, and that's you know,

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Speaker 6: that's very much kind of the core theme of the

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Speaker 6: whole movie. Between these two characters, as well. So to me,

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Speaker 6: whether or not we're introduced to the other musicians didn't

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Speaker 6: really bother me. That it felt like a captured kind

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Speaker 6: of some of this real life dynamic of Hey, we're

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Speaker 6: making something that is beautiful, and probably I'm going to

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Speaker 6: talk to you five other times the rest of my life.

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Speaker 7: Now that's not always true.

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Speaker 6: Sometimes you become extremely close friends and those friendships can

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Speaker 6: last left, and but that's not always the case. So

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Speaker 6: I felt like this, you know, that was one of

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Speaker 6: the more true to life elements of this film, is

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Speaker 6: is it captures how intimate and tender that connection can

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Speaker 6: be and also how fleeting it can be.

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Speaker 5: I love that you pointed that out, and it makes

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Speaker 5: me want to turn to what I think is the

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Speaker 5: scene of the movie, which is them playing falling slowly

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Speaker 5: in the music store together and kind of this this

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Speaker 5: moment of connection when they just can play together, you know,

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Speaker 5: And I mean, I don't play music at level even

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Speaker 5: close to that, Like, I've never experienced that feeling of

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Speaker 5: playing with someone else, with being able to instantly harmonize

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Speaker 5: with someone else. But it's magical to watch, like that

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Speaker 5: moment feels more romantic than anything else in the movie

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Speaker 5: to me, and it like the romance of this film

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Speaker 5: is so much more about music than the two individuals

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Speaker 5: in the romance.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, but also consider how precarious that moment is in

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Speaker 6: the sense that like all the things that had to

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Speaker 6: like line up for that moment to happen, right, Like,

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Speaker 6: she just happens to meet him that one night, and

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Speaker 6: she just happens to have this connection at this music

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Speaker 6: store with this guy that just happens to be okay

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Speaker 6: with her plan, you know, like if one of the

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Speaker 6: if any step along that chain doesn't happen, like they

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Speaker 6: never make music together, and the movie doesn't happen, you know,

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Speaker 6: So it just it feels like it's as powerful as

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Speaker 6: you say, but it's also like it it was very

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Speaker 6: close to not happening, you know.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me a little of the most recent A

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Speaker 1: Star is Born, which we covered on this show, just

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Speaker 1: in terms of like that moment when Lady Gaga like

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Speaker 1: walks out on stage and joins in on the song.

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Speaker 1: There's been no rehearsal there. She's just like jumping in

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Speaker 1: and supposedly ad libbing, but it feels like a very

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Speaker 1: polished performance and it does feel magical I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think in any movie there's maybe a little bit of

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Speaker 1: the fantasy of if you have somebody who's an expert

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Speaker 1: at something and they somebody else who's on the same

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Speaker 1: level at them. Whether it's like two assassins recognizing each

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Speaker 1: other in the middle of a fight and having one

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Speaker 1: of those like game recognizes game moment or something like

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Speaker 1: this where you're playing music together.

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Speaker 7: I think there's.

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Speaker 1: Always just that when you see that moment of recognition

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Speaker 1: in a film, it's it's always a little special. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, David, I'm curious as a musician, like

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Speaker 1: I know that people particularly in the jazz scene, can

403
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Speaker 1: kind of sit down and say like we're doing we're

404
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Speaker 1: doing this in this key on this beat, and just

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Speaker 1: sort of start improvising together. But I am wondering how

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Speaker 1: this plays for you in terms of here are the lyrics,

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Speaker 1: the song goes dot dot dot dot, duh, just go

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Speaker 1: with it, and then the next thing you know, they're

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Speaker 1: playing this beautiful duet.

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Speaker 6: I'd say it's mostly plausible, you know, like it's it's

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Speaker 6: I kind of am very you know when I see

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Speaker 6: those scenes. I'm always curious, like, is this actually something

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Speaker 6: that they could actually pull off, and I thought it

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Speaker 6: was pretty plausible the way it plays out in the movie.

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Speaker 6: It's not like unreasonable. It's not like Glee, you know,

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Speaker 6: like the TV show where come together and it's like perfect.

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Speaker 6: The first time, I think it's like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 6: the songs are kind of basic enough in the direction,

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Speaker 6: clear enough that I think it could happen.

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Speaker 7: That's my perspective anymore.

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Speaker 8: But could that band have follow up Martin McFly when

422
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Speaker 8: he just says watch before the changes it actually works.

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Speaker 7: No, I have no comment on that.

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Speaker 1: Keep I want to go back to. We talked a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the sequence where guy sort of fantasized

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Speaker 1: about remembers watches videos of his old girlfriend. One of

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Speaker 1: the things that maybe strikes me most in this movie

428
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Speaker 1: on a rewatch my first rewatch since it came out,

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Speaker 1: and I think I watched it a couple times that

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Speaker 1: year because I was so taken with it and particularly

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Speaker 1: with the music. Watching it coming back to it again

432
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Speaker 1: after all this time, like I maybe noticed more the

433
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Speaker 1: imbalance between them in terms of how they're presented and

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Speaker 1: how the story is told. And one of the big

435
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Speaker 1: things there is we see guys like sitting down with

436
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Speaker 1: these memories of his old girlfriend and after a girl

437
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Speaker 1: has rejected him sexually, but we don't see the husband

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00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: that she's rejecting him for until the very end of

439
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: the movie. We end up with a lot more insight,

440
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 1: I think, into his feelings in his life than hers,

441
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: in part because we're listening to more songs that within

442
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 1: the confines of the movie. At least he has written

443
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: about his relationship in his past, and there are songs

444
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: that she's written, and we have a very emotional moment

445
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: around one of them, but it's less emphasized. So I'm

446
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: curious what you all make of kind of like that

447
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: mode of storytelling in terms of kind of putting his

448
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: experience first in a lot of ways.

449
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 5: I mean, it puts her a little bit in a

450
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 5: manic pixie dream girl role, does it not? Because I mean,

451
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 5: like he's so defined by this heartbreak, like not just

452
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 5: his songs, but just his entire way of being, And

453
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 5: it seems like that is maybe as much of a

454
00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 5: driver of his attraction to girl as the the music.

455
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 5: Like he's just he seems to be in a very

456
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 5: raw emotional place and kind of hungry for a connection

457
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 5: that she gives him. So like I maybe I'm tipping

458
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 5: my hand here a little in terms of like the romance,

459
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 5: but like, I don't necessarily think this is a lost

460
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 5: romance for the ages. I think it's sort of a

461
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:23,719
Speaker 5: romance of context and circumstance, and I think his heartbreak

462
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,239
Speaker 5: is a big part of that context.

463
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 7: I would agree.

464
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 6: I think I agree with that, And it's a great

465
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 6: point Tasha, that it does feel like the movie is

466
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 6: largely through his perspective, mostly his songs, and we don't

467
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 6: even I don't even think we get Marquette, you know,

468
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 6: girl's husband's face at the end of the movie. Like,

469
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 6: I think he's barely he's like not.

470
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 5: Like a longshot of him holding the kid.

471
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's holding kid, But I don't even think we

472
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 6: see his face, So so I do think but I

473
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 6: do think it's a.

474
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: Little glimpse of it. But you know, we certainly know

475
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: we don't find out what his name is, Like, we

476
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: don't spend any time with him, we don't hear him talk.

477
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: That said, there's something like normally I might feel like

478
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: this was a case of he's more real than she is,

479
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: but I kind of like the idea that this man

480
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: isn't real until the end, and that it's just kind

481
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: of a coming into focus of her and her life

482
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: for all of us. Like I feel like a lot

483
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: of the movie we do seem to sort of be

484
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 1: filtering through his perceptions and what he wants and sometimes

485
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: his frustration how damn pushy she is. But at the

486
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: end when we finally see the husband, to me at least,

487
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: it just kind of feels like, oh, this he's not

488
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: just an imaginary barrier to you getting what you want.

489
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: Like he's a real person in a real space that

490
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: she actually has a real relationship with. And I don't know,

491
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: there's something about that that I like in terms of

492
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: almost shifting the perspective to like guys kind of going

493
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: off into the fantasyland of maybe this musical thing will work,

494
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: but she's kind of like coming home to something real.

495
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 8: I think that works too. I think a way it's

496
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 8: appropriate that we he doesn't get very much screen time

497
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 8: because he is, you know, the equivalent player to the

498
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 8: ex girlfriend who we hear on the phone but never

499
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 8: really see except in those home movie. So you know,

500
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 8: these these are characters that are deeply important to our

501
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 8: main characters, but they're also very much of the margins

502
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 8: of the story itself in some ways.

503
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 7: Well related to that.

504
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 6: Tasha, Sorry, I don't know if you're planning to bring

505
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 6: this up later, but like, what do you make of

506
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 6: the fact that or maybe you already covered it in

507
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 6: the earlier comments, but what do you make of the

508
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 6: fact that they don't have names?

509
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 7: Right?

510
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 6: Like, for me, my interpretation of the fact that they

511
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 6: don't have names is not, oh, these are like just

512
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 6: archetypes of what a man and a woman in this

513
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 6: kind of romance is. Like, that's not my interpretation. It's

514
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 6: like it's more like like the whole thing feels very incidental,

515
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 6: you know, Like the whole story feels very incidental, and

516
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 6: so the idea that we don't get any detailed understanding

517
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 6: of who this ex girlfriend is, who this husband is,

518
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 6: feels like it's a feature, not a bug or what's intended.

519
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 7: You know.

520
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. I dug into this bit in the keynote, which

521
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: I wrote and recorded separately from the rest of this podcast,

522
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: But my take on it was basically that there are

523
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to not give characters names, but

524
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: in this case, I honestly feel like these characters feel

525
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: more almost more like characters out a song than characters

526
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: at a film. And maybe it's just because this is

527
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: such a music forward story. But you know, if you

528
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: name like any like rock or pop or sing singer, songwriter,

529
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 1: ballad or just you know song in general that you love,

530
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: that's iconic. Very few of them are a eleven on

531
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: a prayer kind of story where you get introduced to

532
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: the characters at the beginning and told what their names are.

533
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: There's there's often just a lot of for some reason,

534
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of somebody that you used to know. You know,

535
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: these these characters don't have names, but you can instantly

536
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: identify them and their feelings. You know what their relationship

537
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: used to be like and what it is now. You

538
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: know what the singer wants. But the characters within that

539
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,120
Speaker 1: song don't need names. And that's that's just kind of

540
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: the feeling I get here is these two people are

541
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: pretty iconic. They're also specific in a lot of ways,

542
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 1: but you can see them as just like not universal figures,

543
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: but song figures.

544
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 7: Yeah. I think that's a great point.

545
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I totally agree with that interpretation. But I think

546
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 5: maybe like another layer of it is that it adds

547
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 5: to the intimacy of this film because like when you're

548
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 5: actually like talking in conversation with people you know and

549
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 5: love and talk to a lot, like you don't say

550
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 5: their name very often, Like I probably say my husband's

551
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 5: name aloud like once every couple days, you know. So

552
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 5: there is something about like removing that exposition element of

553
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 5: like saying a character's name for the sake of saying it.

554
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 5: It just adds, like I said, to that intimacy.

555
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: At the same time, saying someone's name has a kind

556
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: of intimacy. I would call it the fact that David

557
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: does it pretty frequently in his podcasting. I mean he's

558
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: called me by name I think more than once now

559
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: already in this podcast, which.

560
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 5: Is just kind of work broadcaster and we're not.

561
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: It's a quirk that I have often noticed about your podcasting, David,

562
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: because it's not a very common thing, but it's something

563
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: that I really enjoy. It does seem like it adds

564
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: like an intimacy, Like I think here on this podcast,

565
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: we tend to have just sort of a very general

566
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: It's almost like every thought is just sort of being

567
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: thrown out on the table and whoever wants can pick

568
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: it up. But you have a way of directing things

569
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: to people. That just feels a little more intimate and

570
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: a little more pointed and specific, and I like it.

571
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: But that said, using somebody's name is kind of a

572
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: form of direction and intimacy, and we don't get it

573
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: in this film. We get this kind of just like

574
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: free floating two people who talk to each other a

575
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: lot but don't ever address each other exactly.

576
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 6: It is fun to see how the movie gets around that.

577
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 6: So I think he refers the guy refers to Girl

578
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 6: often as herself. At the end of the movie, he

579
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 6: goes to her house and the babysitter, the nannies there,

580
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 6: and she's and he says, is herself in And I

581
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 6: just thought that was a fun way of getting around

582
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 6: the fact that neither of them have names in the context.

583
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is sort of funny that Guy is a

584
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: perfectly acceptable male name and Girl really is not an

585
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: acceptable female name. So whenever we talk about, oh, guy

586
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: does this, it sounds fine, and whatever we talk about

587
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: Girl does this, it sounds really odd.

588
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 7: Mm hmm. Yeah. Absolutely.

589
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: What do you make of the music in this film, Like,

590
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: in terms of just just the songs, I feel like

591
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: I'm one of the reasons I'm so predisposed to like

592
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: this is that I really like both this style of

593
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: music and Glenn Hansard's music in particular going back to

594
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: the Frames days. I just really enjoy his performance in

595
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: the verve he puts into singing. But I could very

596
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: easily see there just being like a whole section of

597
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: people who watch this movie don't really like the songs

598
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: or the style of music here, and the whole movie

599
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: is just like an annoying, like buzz of unwanted sound

600
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: because it's so dependent on the songs.

601
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 8: I think you're right. I think you do have to

602
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 8: really like the songs in the context of the movie,

603
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 8: which which I do for the movie to work. Yet

604
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 8: that you can't be at odds with its music. But

605
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 8: I never really listened to this outside the context of

606
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 8: the film. I say a terrific inside of it, and

607
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 8: but I but it's never really drawn to the swell

608
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 8: season apart, you know, when I'm when I'm not watching Once.

609
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I got a little obsessed with him. I

610
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: dug up all of their music. I have seen hanswerd

611
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: and concert multiple times. He came through the AV Club

612
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:41,239
Speaker 1: for an AV undercover not hugely long. I now now

613
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it was before or after, but

614
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: I want to say it was after this.

615
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh yeah, yes, it would have had to be.

616
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, he's uh, he's really intense and concert in

617
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: a in a very delightful and affable sort of way.

618
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: But you know when he's when he's singing some of

619
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: these songs and he just goes like full on screaming

620
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: on the streets, Like that's his performance style.

621
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 5: I mean, I kind of, like Keith said, I like

622
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 5: his performance style. I like it in the context of

623
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 5: this movie. It's not something I have really pursued much

624
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 5: outside of this movie, you know, And I think that's fine.

625
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 5: It's just like not my favorite type of music. It's

626
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 5: also not like buzzing noise or whatever you said, Like

627
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 5: I don't dislike it, you know, I don't think it's

628
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 5: particularly difficult music. I also don't think it's particularly like

629
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 5: hooky music, with the exception of maybe falling slowly. You know,

630
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 5: like the songs all work really well in context, you know,

631
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 5: lyrically performance wise, But if I had to hum any

632
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 5: of them right now other again, other than falling slowly, yeah,

633
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 5: I don't think I could. And that's fine.

634
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: When your mind's made up doesn't stick with you, given

635
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: that that line is repeated about a thousand times, sometimes

636
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: at high volume.

637
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 5: I mean, okay, if if you told me Hum, if

638
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 5: your mind's made up, I could the song that happens

639
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 5: at this point in the movie that I just watched

640
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 5: a few hours ago. Yes, I probably could, but I

641
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 5: can't say for sure. Much longer than that.

642
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,719
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652
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: David, what's your feeling on this style of music?

653
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 7: Well, first of.

654
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 6: All, I feel the need to point out, in case

655
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 6: you're not already aware, I believe the Small Season is

656
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 6: touring this summer.

657
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I was going to bring that up too.

658
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 5: I looked it up there. The Chicago show is sold out,

659
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 5: I'm afraid.

660
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 6: Right right, But other other shows are not. So if

661
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 6: you're a fan of the Sole season, you know they are.

662
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 6: They are performing to celebrate the fifteenth anniversary of Once,

663
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 6: although I think it's actually been sixteen years since what's

664
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 6: this comet? So I'm a little confused by that.

665
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 5: But they also released a new song earlier this week.

666
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, oh interesting.

667
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think you get a bonus. You get a

668
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 8: little wiggle room because of the pandemic.

669
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 7: Yeah.

670
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 6: So, I haven't actually shared my overall thoughts on this

671
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 6: movie yet, but I think it's perfectly fine and nice,

672
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 6: you know, like and And the reason I don't think

673
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 6: it's particularly more than that is because it is, as

674
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 6: you said, Tasha, so heavily dependent on the music. We're

675
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 6: not only hearing multiple songs full length, but sometimes I

676
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 6: believe the same song full length like some I believe

677
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 6: there's like a couple of songs that are repeated all

678
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 6: the way through. So if you don't like this music,

679
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 6: I think it is very difficult to enjoy the movie.

680
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 6: And my opinion on the music is it's it's fine,

681
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 6: it's fine. It's it's pleasant, do you know what I'm saying.

682
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 6: And as a result that that kind of mirrors my

683
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 6: feelings on the film, is that like, yeah, it's because

684
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 6: it's so haven't. I don't find it objectionable, nor am

685
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 6: I like, Wow, this is extremely powerful and I love it,

686
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 6: and I feel like the movie wants me to feel

687
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 6: that way the latter, you know, in order for it

688
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 6: to work at the maximum emotional level, and sadly, I

689
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 6: don't think it gets there for me.

690
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 7: It's fine. I like it, It's perfectly fine. That's kind

691
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 7: of how I feel about it. You know, I think

692
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 7: that's fine.

693
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: I'm not entirely sure that this movie does want you

694
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: to be like full throated passionate for these two to

695
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: get together. You know, I don't think that guy entirely

696
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: knows what he wants. I think he's in a place

697
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: of transition, and as he says, he's lonely, you know,

698
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: he he hits on her because he's lonely, and he

699
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: at the beginning, in particular, when she's just like a stranger,

700
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: importuning him on the streets to fix her vacuum cleaner.

701
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: He seems to tolerate her because it would be impolite

702
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: to do otherwise, And as the two of them kind

703
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: of move closer to each other, she's she's pretty adamant

704
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: and specific about like, no, we can't get together, and

705
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: that's not something that I'm interested in, and he pushes

706
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: her anyway.

707
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 7: I don't think.

708
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 6: I don't think the movie wants you to feel like

709
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 6: they should get together or anything. But I feel like

710
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 6: when they're performing for the first time together, or when

711
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 6: they're performing in the recording booth, like I think we

712
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 6: as the audience are meant to feel like this is

713
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 6: one of the film's emotional heights, right, Like you know,

714
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 6: it's like the shallow scene in Star is Born, which

715
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 6: for me that did you know that song is awesome

716
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 6: in my opinion, you know, like that did work its

717
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 6: magic on me. So I don't think it's like they

718
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 6: want you to think it's some tord love affair. But

719
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 6: I think that because these songs, I think are supposed

720
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 6: to represent the emotional high of the movie, because these

721
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 6: people are spilling their guts out right, this is their

722
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 6: way of communicating their deepest feelings. If the music doesn't

723
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 6: work for you, it's hard for you to get to

724
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 6: where the movie wants you to get, but I don't

725
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 6: think it's like related to them getting together or not.

726
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 7: Just want to clarify that, gotcha.

727
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's entirely fair.

728
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 5: Movie also kind of nudges you in that respect through

729
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 5: the character of the recording engineer, who is very sort

730
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 5: of dubious and disengaged at the beginning, but is won

731
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 5: over by the power of their music. Katie, you know,

732
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 5: becomes part of their little magical weekend recording crew. You know,

733
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 5: if you don't relate to that guy, yeah, maybe it

734
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 5: doesn't work. It's magic on you.

735
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: I think that's true, but I do think that it's

736
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: significant that he's won over from I'm bored and these

737
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: are a bunch of weirdos too. Yeah, that was pretty nice.

738
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: I mean he he doesn't like greet them as they

739
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: come out with oh my god, you're all going to

740
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: be stars and I was there, like he's not blown

741
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: away by their performance. He's just like that was That

742
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: was pretty nice. Pretty much what David just said.

743
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 6: And which is kind of like my reaction to the movie.

744
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 6: Like there's some people who are I think more rapturous

745
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 6: on this film, but it's Yeah, that guy's journey. He's

746
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 6: not like that's the number one record or anything like that.

747
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 6: You know, He's like, that's pretty nice.

748
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 5: He's not the loan officer just dying to give them

749
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 5: a small loan and also play play his song for them.

750
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,479
Speaker 7: Yeah, oh my god.

751
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: In the stage musical, which I read just like a

752
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: point by point breakdown of apparently he gets to perform

753
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: with them.

754
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 7: Oh nice, because you don't have.

755
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: Somebody in a musical like that. Apparently he is presented

756
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: as not really great in the stage musical, but he

757
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: does get a song to himself and then he gets

758
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,720
Speaker 1: to go on and perform with him, which I find hilarious.

759
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 6: Can I just say I wish we had more of

760
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 6: those moments in the movie, Like I like the opening

761
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 6: scene I thought was amazing when the guy tries to

762
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 6: steal his money from the guitar case, and then and

763
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 6: then they bump into these people, you know, the guy

764
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 6: the loan officer who secretly wants me a musician, and

765
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 6: you know they kind of encounter this group of people

766
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 6: singing in this dining hall. You know, all these like

767
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 6: lovely naturalistic moments I really enjoyed, And I thought, based

768
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 6: on the opening scene that was the movie we're going

769
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 6: to watch, but instead I think, you know, a fifth

770
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 6: of movie's runtime is just songs in montage.

771
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 8: I mean, you know, something like more verite, like shot

772
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 8: on the Streets of Dublin kind of things.

773
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 7: Which I really read.

774
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 6: That stuff really resonated with me, you know, and I

775
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 6: wish there's more of it.

776
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: I do find the progression of that first scene pretty hilarious,

777
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: from it's amazing somebody who's eyeing my money to the

778
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: chase to the revelation that they know each other and

779
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: he sees this guy all the time and calls him

780
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 1: by name, like that's just it's It's a really well

781
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: stretched out comic bit.

782
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 5: Another scene kind of in that vein, but that also

783
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 5: bridges the music side of the film, is them on

784
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,479
Speaker 5: the bus and him telling her in song about him

785
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 5: getting cheated on and kind of strumming a little on

786
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 5: his guitar, and I love the woman on the bus

787
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 5: like kind of laughing and.

788
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: Turning around to give them a bit of a librarian

789
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: like you're in public, young man.

790
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 5: But then she laughed afterwards. She thought it was it

791
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 5: was funny so that that scene.

792
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 8: Was she an extra or was she just someone running

793
00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 8: would I.

794
00:38:58,760 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 5: Would love to know.

795
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,959
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I certainly assume the latter, but who knows.

796
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: I love that moment because there is a lot of

797
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: people expressing themselves, expressing things that they don't say through

798
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: music in this movie, but that in particular is just

799
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: like a great, big deferral of emotion. They both do

800
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: it at various points, but this is both the silliest

801
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: version of it and it's maybe a catchier version of

802
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: it because it's not freighted with huge emotion. You know.

803
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: It's not a falling slowly, it's not an if you

804
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: want me, It's a just here's this very silly little

805
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: ditty where I downplay this relationship that broke my life.

806
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: I'm a tattered shell of a man right now, but

807
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to put it in the goofiest, bounciest pop

808
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: terms possible. I think that that song is very funny,

809
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: but I also think it's really telling that he apparently

810
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: did write this song like he's I don't think he's

811
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: improvised in that moment. He's just got this little play

812
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: ditty that he's put together at some point of bitterness

813
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: in his life, and he whips it out rather than

814
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: just answering the.

815
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 7: Question, agreed, it's a great moment if.

816
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 8: You'l like the only way you can talk about it too,

817
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 8: I mean, and especially someone who just met up maybe

818
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 8: at all. Is this definitely a character who can distresses

819
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 8: himself best through music and perhaps really only through music.

820
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: And I think part of the connection between guy and

821
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: girl here is and also maybe one of the things

822
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: that makes her more of a manic pixie dream girl

823
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: than she'd be otherwise because she doesn't fit the stereotype

824
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, is she recognizes immediately that

825
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: the song that he's singing on the street was written

826
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: for a girl who broke his heart, Like she just

827
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: goes straight to who was she? And I think that

828
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: while he doesn't initially want a relationship with anybody he

829
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: just met on the street, like he really wants to

830
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: kind of push her away and go back to singing,

831
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: But I think her observation that just she immediately knows

832
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: that he's expressing something personal, and then she starts asking

833
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: him very nosy questions about it. I think kind of

834
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: hooks into his loneliness a little bit.

835
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 6: The only other thing I want to add is one

836
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 6: thing I really appreciated about the movie is just how

837
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 6: it ends, which is these are by the end. I

838
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 6: think these are fairly mature people, and the relationship kind

839
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 6: of they need to go their separate ways, and there's

840
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 6: this very casual I think, not casual, but like there's

841
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 6: an acceptance of it on both parties that I think

842
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 6: is it's just nice, you know, like not every movie

843
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 6: needs to end, or not every relationship needs to end

844
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 6: super dramatically, or big speeches need to be had. In fact,

845
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 6: like there's not even really a big buye for the

846
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 6: two because they miss each other, and so that's something

847
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,959
Speaker 6: I appreciated. To add it to the naturalism of the film.

848
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 5: For me, there is a grand gesture though, in the

849
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 5: form of the piano he buys her, and I would

850
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 5: like to know how he afforded that.

851
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, I want to get way down with that kind

852
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,879
Speaker 8: of stuff. That was kind of getting into me too.

853
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 6: There is a grand gesture, but there's no kind of

854
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 6: reaction to the grand gesture, you know, like I mean

855
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 6: you see her smile and accept it, but like they

856
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 6: don't talk about it or anything.

857
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 7: You know, that's just the movie. Yeah, so I appreciate

858
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 7: how understated it was.

859
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: Basically honestly, that's well, we'll get into this when we

860
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: pair this up with Past Lives. But that is the

861
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: number one thing that made me relate this movie to

862
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: Past Lives is the adultness of we're not really going

863
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: to go forward with this relationship and the fact that

864
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: it doesn't It doesn't break either of them. They both

865
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: kind of accept it in a way, a mature way

866
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: that seems unusual for a romantic film.

867
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 8: I really like this last scene they have together where

868
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 8: she uses the phrase hanky hanky, and it's not even

869
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 8: you know, it's it's not clear that this is an

870
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 8: English phrase that she understands at first, but then you

871
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 8: kind of get the sense, yeah, no, she she knows

872
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 8: what she's saying. And I don't no, Like, there's a

873
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 8: few mysteries in this movie. And I don't know if

874
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 8: she when she says she's going to come by later,

875
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 8: she ever planned to, if she decided not too later,

876
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 8: if that was like, if she recognized that it's kind

877
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 8: of a rubicon moment where she could either get back

878
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 8: together together with her husband or engage in hanky panky.

879
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 7: And I don't know.

880
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 9: I like it.

881
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 8: It leaves that unanswered.

882
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 5: Another line that's part of that exchange is like they're saying,

883
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 5: like that would be nice, it'd be very interesting, and

884
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 5: then she goes but worthless though, like the idea that,

885
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 5: you know, whatever hookup they did, like it wouldn't it

886
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 5: couldn't mean anything. You know, there's really no point to

887
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 5: it in their present circumstances. I like the idea of

888
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 5: it being worthless.

889
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: So one of the things that fascinates me in this

890
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: movie is that both of these characters push each other

891
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: a lot. Like she she goes through that whole nagging

892
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: thing where she wants him to teach her how to

893
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 1: read the motorcycle and he's like, no, this isn't mine

894
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: and you'll damage it and it would be very upsetting

895
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: to my father. But then they just kind of circled

896
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: around that idea in that moment, and then they don't

897
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: do a Gilligan cut to him showing her how to

898
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: ride the bike, or her crashing the bike or anything

899
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: like that. It's just the pushing and the pushing and

900
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: the pushing. And when they're sitting in the studio with

901
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 1: a piano and he says, like play when you're songs,

902
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: she says no, and he says do it, and then

903
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: they go back and forth and back and forth. There

904
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: are several moments like this with the vacuum cleaner. No,

905
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: you're going to fix my vacuum cleaner. Now, I'm going

906
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: to come to lunch with you. Now, There's just a

907
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: lot of pushiness on both of their parts, but not

908
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: around sex. He asks her to stay, she says no,

909
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 1: He apologizes, and then doesn't bring the idea of a

910
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: relationship up again until late in the film when he

911
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: throws it out and she gently deflects it with humor

912
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: and he kind of agrees with her humorously, and then

913
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: they move on. Those are the two moments in the

914
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 1: film where he tries to push for more. She says

915
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: no in two different ways, and then he just doesn't

916
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: push it. But so many other like encounters between them.

917
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: Some the whole motorcycle thing made me kind of uncomfortable.

918
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: I was just like, take no, lady, Wow, that's.

919
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 5: Really interesting that you interpret it that way, because I

920
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 5: just see it as a flirtation, like I just see it.

921
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 5: And it's a scene that really highlights the age differential

922
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 5: between these both these characters and these actors, which is,

923
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 5: you know, we don't need to get into that. It's

924
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 5: a little squiaky in my opinion, but like, I feel

925
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 5: like it's just kind of her being immature and taunting him,

926
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 5: and you know, there he's taking it to a certain

927
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 5: degree because he is infatuated with her somewhat. But I

928
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 5: don't necessarily see it as like it's maybe a little bratty.

929
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 5: But I don't really see any sort of annoyance on

930
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 5: either of their parts in those interactions.

931
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, that one in particular, it seemed to

932
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: me like he was outright and comfortable because he does

933
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: want to give her what she wants. He does want to,

934
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, to bring fun things into her life, but

935
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: he's caught between her and his father and the fact

936
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: that he stole this motorcycle from his father who wouldn't approve,

937
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: and he gets tenser and tenser throughout that scene, and

938
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: it just it's not cute for me.

939
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just don't think. I didn't find it that serious,

940
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 5: I have to say.

941
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, David Keith, you're you're in charge of breaking

942
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: the breaking the lock here.

943
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 5: Same, Sorry, she's just being a cute little brat.

944
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

945
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: If I'm if, I'm if, I don't have everybody disagreeing

946
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: with me at least once per podcast.

947
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 5: It's not the next Picture show, So this is your

948
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 5: opinion on us? Tell us why no?

949
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: Because then I might make you uncomfortable and like you

950
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: probably borrowed this podcast from one of your parents. It's

951
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: just gonna be gonna be a real squick. The one

952
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: other thing I kind of wanted to touch on, though,

953
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: is one of the movies romantic gestures is something that

954
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: the audience may actually not understand until they read about

955
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: it later. He's asking her do you love your husband?

956
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: But because he's uncomfortable with a question, he asks, you know,

957
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: how do you say this in check? And she tells him,

958
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: so he asks her the question in check, like as

959
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: a way to distance it from himself, and she answers

960
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: in check, no, I love you, And then he doesn't

961
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: have any idea what she just said, and she never

962
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: translates it, and the movie never clarifies that was an

963
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: improv to moment that Marqutta came up with. She Glenn

964
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: did not speak any check and didn't know what she'd said,

965
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 1: and he's reacting in the moment like as the character,

966
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: but he also does not know what that moment means

967
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 1: as you see it happen on film. So I'm curious

968
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: just what you make of that in terms of like

969
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: a storytelling beat that you kind of have to to

970
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,720
Speaker 1: be all Scott Tobias about it, go to an extra

971
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: textual place to even understand what just happened.

972
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 8: I wonder if they knew. I mean, I wonder how

973
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 8: much the thinking that people are going to figure this

974
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 8: out later on the internet, if that played into the

975
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 8: thinking at all.

976
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 5: Maybe it's Yeah, it's just it's such a big thing

977
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 5: to have happened, like without anyone knowing about it. I like,

978
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 5: it's a great story. You know that that it was

979
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 5: totally improvised, but like I feel like it has to

980
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 5: have been acknowledged and like the decision made to leave

981
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 5: it in. But yeah, it's it's wild, especially that like

982
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 5: such a young actor would throw a line in like that,

983
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 5: like it's a major shift in there in their relationship.

984
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 5: Or maybe not. Maybe it's like a I don't know check.

985
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,720
Speaker 5: Maybe there there's different types of words for different types

986
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 5: of love. Maybe she's expressing a platonic love. I don't know, it's.

987
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: It's the same word whatever it is. Because I pulled

988
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: out a translate program, and I looked it up online

989
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: because I was curious about the same thing. And whatever

990
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: she gives him as the question he asks about her husband,

991
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: it's the same word in both cases. So if it's

992
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: if it's no, I platonically love you. She also was

993
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: just asked if she platonically likes her husband.

994
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 6: Let me let me come in here with the contrary

995
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 6: and take here both on the movie once, which I

996
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 6: think a lot of people love and will be upset

997
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 6: to hear my lukewarm feelings for in general, but also

998
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 6: let me let me get onto team. It's not that

999
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 6: big of a deal. And what I mean by that

1000
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 6: is we already knew these characters shared like a deep connection,

1001
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 6: and it's not as though when she says like I

1002
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 6: love you, it doesn't come like if she if it

1003
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 6: had subtitled it, it wouldn't be like completely out of nowhere,

1004
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 6: Like I think, we know that they have some affection

1005
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 6: for each other, and the strength of the movie is

1006
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 6: that despite that, like they realize that, hey, this is

1007
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 6: not a thing that we can act on. We need

1008
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 6: to We have our own lives, you know, we have

1009
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,479
Speaker 6: plans of our own, and we need to move on so, yeah,

1010
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 6: I had already kind of come to this from the

1011
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 6: place of they already have a deep connection that is

1012
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 6: at times, like at times goes into the romantic, and

1013
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 6: so for her to just say it in a way

1014
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 6: that he doesn't understand, it's like it confirms what we

1015
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 6: already believe. But like it's not like a you know,

1016
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 6: it's it's obviously doesn't change the outcome. So team, it's

1017
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 6: not that big of a deal.

1018
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 5: No, I actually like that you say that. I think

1019
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 5: that's a better encapsulation of what I was trying to

1020
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,439
Speaker 5: get across than platonic or like distinguishing different types of love,

1021
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 5: because like, you can love different people at once and

1022
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 5: at different times in your life and in different circumstances,

1023
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 5: and they are going through like a very intense connection moment,

1024
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 5: you know. So I don't think her saying I love

1025
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 5: you is her saying I want to run away and

1026
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 5: be with you forever in that moment.

1027
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 7: Oh for sure.

1028
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 1: I mean, if she was committing in any way should

1029
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: say it in the language that he understands or would

1030
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: translate it. She's she's deferring the same way he's deferring

1031
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: his emotions. She's hiding behind knowing that he doesn't understand,

1032
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: and she's almost teasing him with it.

1033
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'll push back a little bit on the on

1034
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 8: against team. It's not that big a deeal because I

1035
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 8: think the nose it's very significant. They're like, no, I

1036
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 8: love you. It's a denial of her husband, and I think,

1037
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 8: you know, I think ultimately this is a lovely bittersuite

1038
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 8: ending to this. But you have to at least be

1039
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 8: invested enough in the spark between everything. Maybe things have

1040
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,919
Speaker 8: gone a little differently, maybe as like like what David said,

1041
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 8: if if you know, if things had not had lined

1042
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,439
Speaker 8: up just slightly differently, they could have been a couple

1043
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 8: that they could have, like you know, acted on this.

1044
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 8: They could have found out what they're going to spend

1045
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 8: the rest of our lives wondering about.

1046
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: Well as it happens. That's the big theme of the

1047
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: other movie that we're going to discuss in the second

1048
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: half of this discussion, that that question of how things

1049
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 1: fall together differently in a different life. So I think

1050
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: we're going to call it on once and just go

1051
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 1: sing in the street for a little bit and maybe

1052
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: talk to each other languages that not everybody here speaks

1053
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: and we'll be back with a little bit of feedback.

1054
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: Now it's time for feedback, but before we get to it,

1055
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: we want to shout out film spotting. The Next Picture

1056
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: Shows Mothership podcast hosted by Adam Kampenar and Josh Larson.

1057
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 1: As we're recording this, Adam and Josh's most recent episodes

1058
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: discussed the movie that we're talking about next week, Past Lives.

1059
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: They also discussed Pixar's Elemental and the top five movie

1060
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: characters who shaped them with pop culture Happy Hours Ayisha Harris,

1061
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: in celebration of her new book Wanna Be reckonings with

1062
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: the Pop Culture that Shapes Me as her feedback, Bryce

1063
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: and Toronto recently wrote in with some thoughts about our

1064
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: appairing on Senecto Key, New York and Asteroid City, specifically

1065
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: about the Wes Anderson film's opacity, Genevie, Will you read

1066
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 1: this one for us?

1067
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 5: Sure? Bryce writes, no surprise. There are moments of truly

1068
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 5: exquisite beauty in this movie. Meticulous art direction, production design

1069
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 5: that makes your eyes water, quirky, whimsical, often funny, and

1070
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 5: the total realization of a director's esthetic vision. And while

1071
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 5: I don't always agree with Tasha. It seems to me

1072
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 5: that since Grand Budapest there's been an ironic detachment to

1073
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 5: the performances in Anderson's film that have metastasized to the

1074
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 5: point where I'm not sure he can find room for

1075
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 5: genuine emotions anymore. The stiff formalism of Budapest seemed to

1076
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 5: be a goodbye to any kind of sentimentality and maybe

1077
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 5: to our ability to truly feel something for what's happening

1078
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 5: on screen. The relationship between Gustave and Zero's still had tender,

1079
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 5: authentic moments of loyalty and fealty, which gave the film

1080
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 5: a quiet heart. But I'm not sure that's happened since

1081
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 5: and in this film, I'm not sure he's even trying

1082
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 5: to be fair. Scarjo is sublime, even through the stoic

1083
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 5: mask Anderson seems to insist all his actors wear in

1084
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 5: this movie, you still feel the pathos swirling around inside

1085
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 5: her character. The meaning of it all, however, remains hidden,

1086
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 5: perhaps by design.

1087
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,879
Speaker 1: David, I'm gonna throw to you on this one, since

1088
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 1: you weren't here for that discussion. Was Anderson's asteroisity completely emotionless,

1089
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: opaque movie with extremely unclear meaning? Or do you have

1090
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: like a map to the stars that you can share us.

1091
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 6: I don't think the meaning is unclear, you know. I

1092
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 6: think it's very much a story about both, you know.

1093
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 6: I think grief is a huge part of the story

1094
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 6: and like what it means to move past certain stages

1095
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 6: in your life, and to a large degree, it's also

1096
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 6: a story about creating art and what it means to

1097
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 6: create art when you the artist don't even necessarily understand

1098
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 6: the full context and meaning of what you've created. I

1099
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 6: think those are very powerful ideas in the movie. Wasn't

1100
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 6: a movie that I connected with very much personally. I

1101
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 6: think it is pretty inaccessible. I think the emotional distance

1102
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 6: that the movie holds you at really kept me away

1103
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 6: from it. But it's clearly something that's intentional, you know.

1104
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 6: My co host on the Film Cast podcast, Jef Kannada,

1105
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 6: compared it to the work of bertal Brect. It's very

1106
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 6: Breckthian and there's this intentionality of removing any kind of

1107
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 6: recognizable emotion to it. And for a lot of people,

1108
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 6: I think that's working well, and just for me, it

1109
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 6: didn't work quite a little. So I love the ideas,

1110
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 6: but just didn't connect with the movie. Emotionally myself.

1111
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: I didn't either when I was watching it, and I

1112
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: felt that that was intentional. The more I've sat with

1113
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: the movie since we recorded about it, the more it's

1114
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: coming into focus for me as a film not just

1115
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: about creating art, but just creating in general. I kind

1116
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: of feel like that's one of the things that links

1117
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: the whole frame story of a radio or TV show.

1118
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: It's kind of unclear to me that's showing us a play,

1119
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: that's showing us a story with the young scientists who

1120
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: are creating these inventions that the movie is very humorous

1121
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 1: about in an extremely straight faced kind of way. They're

1122
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: all people who want attention, you know. The boy that

1123
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: jumps off the roof, the boy that's constantly daring everybody

1124
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: to dare him to do things, kind of comes out

1125
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: and says like he's just looking for attention. And I

1126
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: think kind of the tension between the people in this

1127
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: show who are creating art for attention or for plaudits

1128
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 1: and the people who seem to be living it, or

1129
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: things like Jason Schwartzman's character coming to Ed Norton's character

1130
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: and just kind of like donning this character and method

1131
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,240
Speaker 1: acting him at the playwright, and then seeking what seems

1132
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 1: to be a sexual connection. Like, there are different ways

1133
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: and levels at which people create things and for very

1134
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,879
Speaker 1: different reasons and with very different intentions. And I think

1135
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: there's just a lot going on here in terms of

1136
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: different ideas about why people create, even though the three

1137
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: little kids, with their like creating rituals around their dead

1138
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: mother and inventing like a whole kind of mythology around her,

1139
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: are building something creative in order to explain the world

1140
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 1: to themselves. I feel like this is a movie that

1141
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 1: you maybe want to see a couple of times to

1142
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: scratch below just a very glossy and resistant surface. I

1143
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: think that this movie is going to play better on

1144
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: subsequent views, and I certainly don't blame anybody that doesn't

1145
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: connect with it, But it's finally beginning to kind of

1146
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: sink in for me as a movie with thought through

1147
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 1: resonant themes instead of a movie about nothing, which is

1148
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 1: certainly an accusation of scene named at it.

1149
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's not fair. I've seen it twice now, and

1150
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 8: like you know, I've talked about on the show, the

1151
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 8: key scene to me is the moment where Schwartzman's steps

1152
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 8: you know, character steps out of character and goes and

1153
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 8: talks to Margot Robbie on the balcony, and like that

1154
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 8: really got me the first time, and boy did it

1155
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 8: give me a second time around. I really think, yeah,

1156
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 8: it is a movie that benefits from a second a

1157
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 8: second viewing. And I don't know, there's sort of this

1158
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 8: knee jerk, you know, rejection. I don't think that's what

1159
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 8: Pryce is doing when he's ready in, but there's a

1160
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 8: New York rejection of Wes Anderson, the whole Wes Anderson

1161
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 8: thing in some quarters. And I think he's I think

1162
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 8: it's a superb filmmaker and I look forward to whatever

1163
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 8: he does.

1164
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: I found that today kind of my accident that, like

1165
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: I was just googling the movie for some specific thing,

1166
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: I think, probably to look for images to tweet out

1167
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: our episode about it. And ratings from people who have

1168
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: reviewed it on Google specifically are averaging about.

1169
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 5: Two stars out of five.

1170
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 7: I it's five one.

1171
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 8: I mean.

1172
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: It's mostly ones and twos. It's averaging out like much

1173
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: much less high and low bell curve than I would expect,

1174
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: and much more are The twos are just kind of

1175
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: pulling it up from just being like one to one

1176
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: point five. I think it's interesting because, like the the

1177
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: same Google page that showed me that also showed me

1178
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: that like Rotten Tomatoes users are averaging about seven out

1179
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 1: of ten, IMDb users averaging about seven out of ten,

1180
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: but people who reviewed on Google really don't like it.

1181
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what that says about that demographic specifically,

1182
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: but I find it interesting that it's so different.

1183
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 5: I have wondered how their recent ish tiktokification of Wes

1184
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 5: Anderson is maybe coloring some people's reactions or just sort

1185
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 5: of maybe enabling that that knee jerkness that you mentioned, Keith, Like.

1186
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 8: I don't know what these words mean, tiktoxification. I don't

1187
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 8: want to.

1188
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 6: Know, Oh, Keith, I'll just say I don't think that

1189
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,479
Speaker 6: that anything that's happening on TikTok with regards to people

1190
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 6: imitating Wes Anderson is leading to them like disliking this

1191
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 6: movie more than they otherwise would. I think there are

1192
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 6: a couple phenomenon that might be at work. Number One,

1193
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 6: in my opinion, having seen every single one of Wes

1194
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 6: Anderson's films, this is his least accessible film. Like in

1195
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 6: my opinion, other people may disagree.

1196
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 7: So's the weirdest film.

1197
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 8: That's weirdest film, Like the comedy has a certain immediate

1198
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 8: appeal to it that may maybe isn't always there in

1199
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 8: his movies if you're not necessarily following, you know, even

1200
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 8: the movie is a little baffling. I think there's some

1201
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 8: really broad comedic stuff and some fun characters to latch onto.

1202
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 8: But yeah, it's definitely it's by several degrees his strangest film.

1203
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 6: Sure, yeah, maybe most or at least successible. Maybe unfair,

1204
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 6: maybe it's one of the how about that? But so

1205
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 6: that's part of it. And the other part of it is,

1206
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 6: if anything, the movie's doing quite well at the box

1207
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 6: office from what I understand, And maybe there's a lot.

1208
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 7: Of people who are.

1209
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 6: Seeing a Wes Anderson movie that otherwise wouldn't have seen it,

1210
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 6: or maybe they expect Wes Anderson to be merely an

1211
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 6: aesthetic and they see the movie and they find out

1212
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 6: that there's kind of deeper layers than what's there, and

1213
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 6: they react differently. So maybe there's an outside possibility it's

1214
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 6: having a negative impact, but I don't know that it's

1215
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 6: It's not like I'm sick of seeing the Tiktoks and

1216
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 6: therefore my opinion of the movie is bad. It's kind

1217
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 6: of maybe maybe the TikTok set a different expectation than

1218
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 6: what people are.

1219
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's kind of what I'm always trying

1220
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:54,959
Speaker 5: to get out. No, no, no, I thank you for

1221
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 5: saying it more concisely than I did.

1222
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I do wonder if so many people

1223
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: doing him so on such a service level, kind of

1224
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: like devalues what he actually does a little bit. But

1225
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: I do have a hard time imagining people watching six

1226
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: here's my day as a Wes Anderson character TikTok's and

1227
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: then thinking I'm gonna go see Asteroid City. Well that

1228
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: wasn't like TikTok at all. I just have a very

1229
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: hard time imagining it working that way.

1230
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 5: I think it's possible, Yeah, I mean TikTok has changed

1231
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 5: how music is made and written, you know, like it

1232
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 5: has an effect on all media eventually.

1233
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: David, before we transition out of this, because this is

1234
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: most definitely a rabbit hole and one that we could

1235
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: spend the rest of the night going down. Do you

1236
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: see like when because you're on so many different mediums

1237
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: and you're creating content in so many different formats for

1238
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: so many different platforms. Do people on TikTok relate to

1239
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: you about movies or just creation in completely different ways

1240
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: from some of the other platforms are on.

1241
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 6: I will just say I think that the thing that

1242
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 6: I've been most impressed with on TikTok is just the

1243
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 6: sheer amount of creativity that is that is available. A

1244
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:14,439
Speaker 6: lot of gen Z people making extremely i would say,

1245
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 6: effective short films on TikTok. One one recent trend that

1246
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 6: is a lot of fun, if you want to look

1247
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,000
Speaker 6: it up, is, uh, the Grimace shake. I don't know

1248
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 6: if you've heard of this.

1249
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 7: Oh we did.

1250
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: We did a whole thing about it. But actually, as

1251
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 1: with so many TikTok things that trend, you can find

1252
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: it on YouTube, where I'm a little more native because

1253
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: I don't have to down.

1254
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 5: Instagram, which is where I get all my TikTok, right, Sure,

1255
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 5: I like held the millennial I am.

1256
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 6: I'm watching these grimace shake videos on TikTok, and I

1257
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 6: just like as I'm like, I don't even know how

1258
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 6: some of these were There's like visual effects in some

1259
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 6: of them. I'm like, I don't even know how some

1260
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 6: of these were achieved. So I'm constantly kind of impressed

1261
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 6: at the creativity of the folks on there. I don't

1262
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 6: know that the way they relate to film is any different.

1263
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 6: The way they present their thoughts is quite different than

1264
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 6: people who have listened to this point in this podcast

1265
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 6: that we.

1266
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 7: Are on right now.

1267
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 6: But you know, but I think the creativity and the

1268
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:12,919
Speaker 6: inspiration is definitely there.

1269
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 9: So well.

1270
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: I look forward to seeing what TikTok and every other

1271
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: medium that seems to be taking up the Wes Anderson

1272
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: flag does going forward with Wes Anderson. But I'm also

1273
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing how Wes Anderson himself develops, because

1274
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: Asteroid City does feel like just an ongoing development and

1275
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: specification of his style. He's just becoming more and more

1276
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 1: Wes Anderson with every movie. I'm very interested in what.

1277
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 8: If he just goes to TikTok. What if he likes

1278
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 8: I got to beat out their own game. I'm TikTok

1279
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 8: Wes Anderson.

1280
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: Now I might I might redownload TikTok and get back

1281
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: on if I could just check in with Wes Anderson's

1282
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: daily exploration of some some bizarre set or the other.

1283
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 6: I don't know if you saw the comment trend too,

1284
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 6: he said. He said, please don't send me videos of

1285
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 6: people doing me what he said because because he didn't

1286
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 6: want to be self conscious, because when when people quote

1287
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 6: unquote do you, then you ask yourself, is.

1288
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 7: That what people think of me?

1289
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 2: You know?

1290
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 1: So what it sounds like, it's a.

1291
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 8: Wonder that Christopher Walking can still act.

1292
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 6: Absolutely or Nicholas Cage Nae book.

1293
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I even going back to the Can Film Festival,

1294
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: I watched the news out of Can very closely because

1295
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,400
Speaker 1: when the film premiered, the only thing I was expecting

1296
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: out of interviews was everybody asking him what do you

1297
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 1: think of the h the AI versions of you at

1298
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 1: the time, And like he's he's pretty much consistently said

1299
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 1: like I've never watched any of this and I don't

1300
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: want to know about it. He's kind of like Keith

1301
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 1: talking about what TikTok is. I just don't want to know.

1302
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 7: Good for him, Good for him, That's what I said.

1303
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 1: Well, we always appreciate when our listeners share their thoughts

1304
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: and their recommendations, as as long as they're not trying

1305
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: to tell Keith what TikTok is. If you feel so

1306
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: inclined to talk about anything else, we can feature your

1307
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: response on a future episode. To reach us, leave a

1308
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: short voicemail at seven to seven three two three four

1309
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 1: nine seven three zero, or email us at comments at

1310
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: next pictureshow dot net. That's it for this episode of

1311
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: the Next Picture Show. In our next episode, we'll talk

1312
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: about Past Lives, a film that puts its genteel love

1313
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: triangle a little more on screen and then offers a

1314
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: metaphysical explanation for it all. Look for that episode next

1315
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: Tuesday on your podcast or choice. For add free versions

1316
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: of the podcast and extra content, find us on Patreon

1317
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: at Patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show. You can

1318
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 1: find us at Next Picture Show dot net and on

1319
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 1: Twitter at Next Picture Pod if you want to keep

1320
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: track of when new episodes drop until next week, though,

1321
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 1: remember if you show up at a singalong party, you'd

1322
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: better be prepared to sing

1323
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Speaker 9: And