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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grece.

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Speaker 2: As we speak, an entire excavation crew is dismantling the backyard,

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Speaker 2: deck and porch of the Long Island serial killer suspect

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Speaker 2: Rex Huerman. This as evidence comes to light that he

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Speaker 2: had a sound proof room in his basement, and not

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Speaker 2: only that, reams of torture porn allegedly being pulled out

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Speaker 2: of his home. Could it have fueled the flame amped

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Speaker 2: him up prior to a string of horrible murders on

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Speaker 2: young ladies throughout the metro area. I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 2: at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. If the

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Speaker 2: allegations are true, rex Huerman is a serial killer like

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Speaker 2: none other. You know you're bad when you have other

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Speaker 2: serial killers talking about you. That's actually happening. Dennis Rader

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Speaker 2: BTK bind Torture Kill is actually commenting on Rex Hureman. Okay,

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Speaker 2: before I get my mind around that, let's talk about

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Speaker 2: what's happening evidence wise. First of all, I want you

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Speaker 2: to take a listen to our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 3: As the search of Rex Hewerman's home was winding down

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Speaker 3: on Sunday, police allegedly found a soundproof room and think

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Speaker 3: at least one victim was killed there. Police used cadaver

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Speaker 3: dogs and ground penetrating sonar all over the backyard. Sunday afternoon,

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Speaker 3: The New York Post reported that a former coworker said

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Speaker 3: Hureerman took time off from his job as an architect

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Speaker 3: in Manhattan to install a concrete line vault at his

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Speaker 3: family home in Long Island. The New York Post says

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Speaker 3: it isn't clear if this is the same room that

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Speaker 3: housed over two hundred of Huerman's guns as it has

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Speaker 3: been reported in the past, or if this was a

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Speaker 3: new space. The former coworker told The New York Post,

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Speaker 3: It's not just a hidden room. It's a serious vault.

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Speaker 3: It had a huge, heavy duty safe door. The coworker claimed.

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Speaker 3: The human impoured new concrete walls, massive amounts of concrete

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Speaker 3: to encase the room.

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Speaker 2: So I'm trying to understand is there not only a

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Speaker 2: padlocked room to store guns in addition to a sound

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Speaker 2: proof room that Hureman has taken great pains to insulate

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Speaker 2: with cement. Speaking of ground penetrating sonar, with me an

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Speaker 2: all star panel to analyze what's happening right now? As

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Speaker 2: we speak with the Long Island serial killer suspect also

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Speaker 2: known as a Gilgo Beach suspect. But first I want

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Speaker 2: to go to Cheryl McCollum, Director founder Cold Case Research Institute,

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Speaker 2: star of a Hitney series Zone seven, and forensics expert.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. You and I just were on a saane

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Speaker 2: working ground penetrating sonar. Explain how it works.

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Speaker 4: It's almost like a small lawnmower size, and it rolls

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Speaker 4: across the ground and literally it shoots down these sonars

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Speaker 4: that come back and give you an image of what's

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Speaker 4: underneath the ground or underneath the concrete slab. And when

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Speaker 4: you're able to read it and deduce what these images mean,

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Speaker 4: it can show things like, you know, a weapon or

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Speaker 4: in our case, a shower rod or something in case.

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Speaker 4: So again, what is so smart about this scene to

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Speaker 4: me is they're using the ground penetrating radar in conjunction

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Speaker 4: with canines, in conjunction with common sense, like where the

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Speaker 4: evidence is leading them. This sonar can all so show

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Speaker 4: things that canines can't, like where the gas lines are,

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Speaker 4: where electrical lines are. That will help you before you

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Speaker 4: start digging, because you don't want to cause any more

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Speaker 4: issues in this neighborhood. So if there's a water line

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Speaker 4: or something, you want to avoid that. But again, when

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Speaker 4: you're reading these things and you've got an expert out

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Speaker 4: there in conjunction with these dogs and in conjunction with

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Speaker 4: the folks from you know, the detective Bureau, it's a

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Speaker 4: beautiful thing to watch in concert.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that I would call anything about this beautiful,

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Speaker 2: but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. In addition to finding actual objects in the dirt,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of something that looks like everybody

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Speaker 2: has seen a ultrasound of a baby, right, and you

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Speaker 2: just see different shades of gray and black, and you

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Speaker 2: can make out the form of the baby, sometimes even

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Speaker 2: face to some degree. It's different shades. And in ground

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Speaker 2: penetrating sonar, Cheryl McCollum and I were just at a

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Speaker 2: cold case seen out in the middle of nowhere recently,

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Speaker 2: working with cadaver DAWs and ground penetrating sonar GPS, and

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Speaker 2: what it looks like is kind of like that ultrasound.

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Speaker 2: You will see the dirt, but then importantly you could

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Speaker 2: see a disturbance in the dirt. You can see a

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Speaker 2: place where it looks different than the rest. It's not

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Speaker 2: as accurateusly an X ray, it's not that sharp, but

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Speaker 2: you can absolutely see a difference where the dirt has

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Speaker 2: been disturbed, in other words, where someone has been digging

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Speaker 2: much less, as Cheryl accurately pointed out an object like

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Speaker 2: a shower shower rod, or a knife or a gun

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Speaker 2: or a body. You can see it very, very clearly.

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Speaker 4: The easiest way to describe it if you look at

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Speaker 4: a sheet and all these air is a pointing upward,

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Speaker 4: and all of a sudden you have a short space

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Speaker 4: where all the airs are pointing down. That's where dirt

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Speaker 4: is like dug up and then put back, it looks different.

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Speaker 4: You've changed the composition. So that's what you're looking for.

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Speaker 2: Guys. I've just been sent right now a photo of

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Speaker 2: the scene with me is Kristin Thorn, investigative reporter WABC

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Speaker 2: Channel seven Eyewitness News, and she's the star of Hulu's

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Speaker 2: true crime show Missing Kristin. I'm seeing a picture right

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Speaker 2: now of investigators on the scene digging and they clearly

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Speaker 2: have found something. Now what is it?

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Speaker 5: What we're seeing is this is a drone picture that

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Speaker 5: was taken yesterday actually from a teenager who lives in

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Speaker 5: the neighborhood who contacted us. And what we're seeing is

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Speaker 5: an aerial of the backyard, which of course has been

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Speaker 5: torn apart over the last few days here, and it

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Speaker 5: looks like they have almost a piece of either plywood

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Speaker 5: or paper something that they're holding. Bits very flat and

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Speaker 5: on it are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten,

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Speaker 5: maybe eleven dark colored shape and I can't make out

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Speaker 5: what this may be, but it's certainly as we know

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Speaker 5: from the teenager who took the drone pictures and videos

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Speaker 5: and contacted us. They were taking pictures. Actually did see

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Speaker 5: the video of this. You can see them flashing pictures

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Speaker 5: of this sort of menagerie of items and then they

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Speaker 5: stick it in a brown plastic bag that your experts

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Speaker 5: will see right there.

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Speaker 2: Let me think of a good way to put this.

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Speaker 2: It almost looks like a treasure map. Yeah, where they're

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Speaker 2: looking at certain and I don't know if these are

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Speaker 2: silhouettes or representative of certain items they found or certain locations,

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Speaker 2: but it looks like every single guy standing around one two, three, four,

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Speaker 2: five six, one woman on the end are looking at this,

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Speaker 2: this piece of paper, and they're standing over the digs site.

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Speaker 2: Everybody on our panel take a look at this, and

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Speaker 2: we'll go around and assess what is happening right now again,

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Speaker 2: you heard Kristen Thorn from ABC Channel seven Eyewitness News

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Speaker 2: describing how a teen in the neighborhood took this drone

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Speaker 2: shot and has passed it on right now. We also

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Speaker 2: know that the deck is being torn apart. Take a

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Speaker 2: listen to our friend Dave Mack.

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Speaker 3: The home that Rex Huerman has lived in for most

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Speaker 3: of his life has been a hotbed of activity. The

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Speaker 3: New York Post reports a police dog was brought into

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Speaker 3: nose around the backyard on Saturday while investigators took a

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Speaker 3: part a wooden deck, emptied out a storage shed, and

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Speaker 3: removed cement tiles that had been dug up and taken

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Speaker 3: by Wilburrow to be dumped into a container for closer inspection.

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Speaker 3: The Post report's three brown paper bags of evidence were

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Speaker 3: also carried out directly to a police vehicle after the

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Speaker 3: cement tiles were removed on Saturday. Sunday, a backo was

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Speaker 3: brought in and began digging up the area. Channel twelve

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Speaker 3: Long Island News reported investigators had ground penetrating sonar on

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Speaker 3: site to be used in the area, but investigators refusing

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Speaker 3: to say what they have found or what they are

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Speaker 3: trying to find in the yard.

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Speaker 2: In the dirt, they are taking a part that back

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Speaker 2: deck slash porch tile by tile, leaving nothing undisturbed.

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Joining me in addition to Christian Thorn and Schryl McCollum.

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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough joining us, Director of the Cold Case Foundation,

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Speaker 2: former homicide detective and now host of an incredible YouTube channel,

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Speaker 2: The Interview Room. Chris very significant that they are tearing

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Speaker 2: apart the back decks. As a matter of fact, take

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Speaker 2: us an hour cut fifteen k e yt. This should

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Speaker 2: ring a bell.

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Speaker 6: San Louis Obispo County Sheriff's investigators get back to work

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Speaker 6: searching the home of Reuben Flores for a second straight day.

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Speaker 6: All morning long, investigators scoured the property a lot of attention,

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Speaker 6: focusing on an area behind wooden lattice underneath a large deck.

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Speaker 6: Sheriff Ian Parkinson could be seen walking around the yard

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Speaker 6: checking out an area where deputies later started digging early

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Speaker 6: in the afternoon. Shortly after the digging in the yard.

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Speaker 6: Investigators quickly wrapped up and left the site.

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Speaker 2: We're talking, of course, about the case of Kristen Smart,

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Speaker 2: the California coit who goes missing after a party. Her

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Speaker 2: body was hidden under a deck in the backyard of

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Speaker 2: the Flores family that was found through ground penetrating sonar.

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Speaker 2: You could see where it had been on earth. Where

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Speaker 2: they put it after that, I don't know, but that

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Speaker 2: is a case, Chris McDonough that plagued the law enforcement

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Speaker 2: series of blunders for decades until finally they go and

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Speaker 2: they're doing what they're doing right now with Hureman and

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Speaker 2: tore apart the back deck. That's not a good sign

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Speaker 2: when you see the FEZ or the sheriff's in your

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Speaker 2: backyard dismantling your deck.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy, And what's going on in this pictures is

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Speaker 7: basically it's a forensic forensic anthropology dig. There's a high probability.

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Speaker 7: There's a high probability the guy in the hall it's

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Speaker 7: an anthropologist of some sort, and we see the paper

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Speaker 7: and Miss Cheryl can talk about that all day, but

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Speaker 7: those are probably items of evidence that they're removing from there.

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Speaker 7: And there's one really interesting looking shape at the top

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Speaker 7: of the paper, it looks like it has a hook

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Speaker 7: on it, and that may or may not be amendable

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Speaker 7: of some sort. And maybe this is a small individual,

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Speaker 7: possibly even well I'm not going to, you know, speculate,

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Speaker 7: but these items of evidence are definitely items of evidence

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Speaker 7: that they're putting on this bag. And you know, those

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Speaker 7: are the types of things that with this secret room,

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Speaker 7: and you wonder if he was burying people there and

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Speaker 7: that he ran out of room. And that's where the

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Speaker 7: beach now becomes kind of the dumping ground because kind

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Speaker 7: of like Gaysey Gasey ran out of the room at

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Speaker 7: his house.

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Speaker 2: Jump in, Bethany, guys, you are hearing Dr Bethany Marshall.

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Speaker 2: She has a renounced psychoalys joining us at the Beverly

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Speaker 2: Hills Jurisdiction at Dr Bethany Marshall dot com. I was

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Speaker 2: about to come to you and you can just roll

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Speaker 2: this into your comment. Dr Bethany, the act of burying

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Speaker 2: a person or body parts is a whole another can

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Speaker 2: of worms. You know, when I prosecuted cases where people

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Speaker 2: were buried, you know, the or buried or body parts

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Speaker 2: or evidence, I didn't have to think about why. But

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Speaker 2: I'm curious as to why. And Cheryl, I want to

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Speaker 2: circle back to you about the case you and I

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Speaker 2: helped crack of Chase Masterner who was buried under a

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Speaker 2: back deck and years past and he was still found. Okay,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany hit it.

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Speaker 8: Nancy. I think if you think about the fact that

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Speaker 8: he's accosting, raping, murdering all these victims, holding onto body

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Speaker 8: parts and trophies for sexual excitement. I mean, that's what

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Speaker 8: this is all about, is incorporating all of this into

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Speaker 8: sadistic masturbatory fantasies. My thought is as he was graduating

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Speaker 8: towards the sicker and sicker acts, he started by just

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Speaker 8: dumping the bodies along the beach, but then eventually he

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Speaker 8: wanted them close by for his own sexual purposes. And

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Speaker 8: how many places can you secrete a body in a

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Speaker 8: home when you're married, you have a wife and two kids.

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Speaker 8: You know where in the refrigerator, you know, in the tupperware,

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Speaker 8: you know, containers. I mean, I don't mean to be facetious,

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Speaker 8: but all those body parts have to go somewhere, and

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Speaker 8: he wants them close by. Once they're in the bushes

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Speaker 8: at Gilgo Beach, he no longer retains use of them

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Speaker 8: for his sexual fantasies. And that's not how this guy operates.

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Speaker 8: He probably has one victim that he will use as

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Speaker 8: a fetishized object again and again and again, so he

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Speaker 8: has to keep them close by and hide them from

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Speaker 8: his wife and children, so burying them, putting them in

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Speaker 8: a secret room. Cutting up body parts. See that white

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Speaker 8: piece of paper with those odd brown shapes on it

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Speaker 8: do look to me like body parts, And it suggests

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Speaker 8: to me that Hureman either had to sever body parts

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Speaker 8: or you know, hide them in different locations around his property,

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Speaker 8: because he had to s create the bodies and that

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Speaker 8: was the only way to do it. Or maybe he

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Speaker 8: had favorite body parts. Maybe certain body parts were put

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Speaker 8: in certain places, and we'll find that there's sort of

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Speaker 8: a method to the madness. And maybe he liked hands,

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Speaker 8: maybe he liked to feed. I mean, who knows what

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Speaker 8: it was. But maybe the map that they're looking at

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Speaker 8: is going to tell them some kind of a story

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Speaker 8: of where he secreted body parts and then brought them

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Speaker 8: back for his own sexual purposes.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now, doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for

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Speaker 2: the State of Florida, and you can find him at

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Speaker 2: pathcaremed dot com lecturer University of Florida Medical School and

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Speaker 2: the Forensic Medicine Branch, and founder and host of the

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Speaker 2: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. Doctor Gallagher, thank you

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Speaker 2: for being with us. We sent you that drone shot

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Speaker 2: almost like a map. It's not a map, I don't

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Speaker 2: think what is that. We earlier heard someone mention a mandible.

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Speaker 2: What is a mandible and what, if anything, do you

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Speaker 2: make of the drawing that they are looking at?

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Speaker 9: Well, thanks for being Thanks for having me on the show, Nancy.

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Speaker 9: A mandible is the jaw of a skull, so it's

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Speaker 9: the lower jaw of a person. It's the bone that

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Speaker 9: comprises the lower teeth and it's attached to the base

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Speaker 9: of the skull. Looking at the photograph, I'm not seeing

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Speaker 9: a lot of body parts there. It reminds me of clothing. Actually,

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Speaker 9: it looks like there's a pair of pants and.

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Speaker 7: Some other items.

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Speaker 9: I don't recognize a lot of those shapes as being

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Speaker 9: body parts. And typically if a excavation is going on,

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Speaker 9: knowing that there's a drone in the area, the body

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Speaker 9: parts aren't really exposed to those photographs. So this to

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Speaker 9: me looks like clothing perhaps, but certainly I don't recognize

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Speaker 9: any of those shapes as being a body part.

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Speaker 2: And also if it had been a body part buried there,

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Speaker 2: unless it was bone, it would have long ago decomposed.

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Speaker 2: It looks more to me. Let me bring in BERNARDA.

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Speaker 2: Villa loona high profile New York criminal defense attorney and

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Speaker 2: former prosecutor at Villa loonalaw dot com. BERNARDA thank you

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Speaker 2: for being with us. To me, after having a jump

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Speaker 2: in Cheril, if you have an idea about this. To me,

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Speaker 2: it looks like spots that they have identified through the

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Speaker 2: GPS groundbreaking sonar. It doesn't look like any particular object

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Speaker 2: to me. I mean, as you hear on the panel,

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Speaker 2: one person things it looks like a mandible. One things

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Speaker 2: that looks like a pair of pants. One of them

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Speaker 2: looks like a tooth, a molar, one of them looks

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Speaker 2: like a cereal bowl. So obviously that's not what it is,

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Speaker 2: but it looks like it could be areas that have

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Speaker 2: shown up more darkly than other areas and the groundbreaking

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Speaker 2: sonar result.

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Speaker 10: So you have to think, Nancy, remember the way that

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Speaker 10: we got here is that technology advanced, and it advanced

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Speaker 10: to the point that remember that here that they found

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Speaker 10: on two of the bodies, or believe three of the bodies,

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Speaker 10: mitochondrial DNA advanced, it came.

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Speaker 11: About, it developed, and they were able to get the

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Speaker 11: investigation going and finally get an assessspect.

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Speaker 10: So imagine this, So even though they had been in arrest,

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Speaker 10: we don't know where technology is going to take us

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Speaker 10: two three years from now or even a year from

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Speaker 10: now when the trial actually begins. So they have to

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Speaker 10: take anything that they believe can be provided or can

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Speaker 10: be examined, so they can at least have that in

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Speaker 10: their possession for this investigation, for this upcoming trial. Because

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Speaker 10: when the trial does begin, remember the prosecutor is going

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Speaker 10: to have to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 10: And you want to be able to cross off to say, look,

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Speaker 10: we dug up his property, We went deep into his property.

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Speaker 10: We dug up whatever known property that he has. We

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Speaker 10: know that he's an architecturer. So being an architecture, what

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Speaker 10: is this specialty? Ding ding, ding.

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Speaker 11: Building, property building, land building buildings, So he has an

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Speaker 11: expertise and where to hide things, where to build things

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Speaker 11: that we normally wouldn't have as an attorney's as prosecutors.

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Speaker 11: So that is something that the prosecutor definitely wants to

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Speaker 11: cross their teeth, and they're doing what they need to do,

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Speaker 11: and at least they'll be able to show these pictures

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Speaker 11: or these videos to a jury to say that they

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Speaker 11: did a serbo investigation. And let's see where leads.

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Speaker 2: Guys, you are hearing BERNARDA. Villalona speaking in that jurisdiction basine,

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Speaker 2: I wanted to circle back to you on another issue,

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Speaker 2: but before I lose the thought, Cheryl McCollum, the backyard,

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Speaker 2: the deck, if you will recall in the case of

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Speaker 2: the missing that Chase Master, a young guy, handsome guy,

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Speaker 2: had a wife and two children that believed for years

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Speaker 2: he just walked off and left them. I never believed that,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, years later he was found under the deck,

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Speaker 2: buried under the deck of his best friend. Remember that case,

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Speaker 2: you and out there, you and I out there with

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Speaker 2: the dogs, yep.

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Speaker 4: And I also remember us telling people nobody could confirm

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Speaker 4: he ever left that house, so we believed he was

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Speaker 4: right there, very close. So under the deck, when you

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Speaker 4: saw this very crude makeshift cement slab, again, that's a clue.

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Speaker 4: So other people have mentioned that his home looks in

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Speaker 4: a little bit of disarray and he hasn't put a

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Speaker 4: lot of you know, care into it. If he's all

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Speaker 4: of a sudden building a deck, again, that's a clue.

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Speaker 2: Not a lot of care, but enough cared to poor cement?

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Speaker 2: Cement pray, can you tell me, Kristin Thorne, let's follow

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Speaker 2: up on what Cheryl McCollum just said, Kristin joining us

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Speaker 2: from ABC Channel seven about the cement being poured to

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Speaker 2: soundproof or well nanty.

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Speaker 5: This is coming from a former co worker of his,

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Speaker 5: and I have a lot of, you know, concerns about this.

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Speaker 5: One is that it's been very difficult for us to

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Speaker 5: hear from coworkers of former co workers. We've been trying

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Speaker 5: to do that. In this article that we're seeing, it

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Speaker 5: doesn't name who that person is. I'm certainly curious about

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Speaker 5: who this person is. But second of all, I'd love

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Speaker 5: to talk to this person myself because I'd like to

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Speaker 5: know when when did this supposedly happen, When did he

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Speaker 5: take this time off from work to do this?

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Speaker 8: And really, you know.

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Speaker 5: If I knew somebody, I'm not trying to blame. I'm

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Speaker 5: not trying to blame the former co worker here. But

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Speaker 5: you know, if I knew that somebody in their basement

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Speaker 5: was creating a sound proof cement room, I would certainly

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Speaker 5: have a lot of concerns about that, a lot of questions.

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Speaker 5: I'm sure I would have asked, why are you doing that?

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Speaker 5: And I'm just not hearing that from this person.

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Speaker 2: Well, also, I mean, you're dealing with an architect, So

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Speaker 2: if you didn't suspect the architect was a serial killer,

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Speaker 2: you may not think anything of it. Which leads me

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Speaker 2: to another surprise find According to me, me not as

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Speaker 2: much as a surprise of a surprise to the people

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Speaker 2: on this panel. Take to listen to our cut a

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Speaker 2: from Crime Online.

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Speaker 12: The extensive investigation inter Rex Huerman as the Gilgo Beach suspect,

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Speaker 12: revealed he was compulsively searching the Internet for pictures of

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Speaker 12: the victims, pictures of their relatives, their sisters, and their children.

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Speaker 12: The Long Island serial killer is also known to have

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Speaker 12: called one of his victim's sisters, telling her in detail

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Speaker 12: what happened to Melissa Bartholemy detectives also say in their

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Speaker 12: search of the home they uncovered quote a lot of torture,

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Speaker 12: porn and what you would consider depictions of women being abused,

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Speaker 12: raped and killed.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, what is torture porn and why is

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Speaker 2: it significant in this search?

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Speaker 8: Well, I think it's important to reset and ask ourselves

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Speaker 8: why do serial killers kill? And there is kind of

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Speaker 8: a biological basis for it, believe it or not, which

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Speaker 8: is that, you know, brain scans show that they don't

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Speaker 8: have arousal and excitement, particularly sexual arousal, but also just

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Speaker 8: joy in living in normal ways. So they have to

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Speaker 8: increasingly go to more and more perverse, torturous, stetigized images

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Speaker 8: and activities in order to enhance their sexual arousal. That's

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Speaker 8: the whole mo. So they might start small, maybe maybe

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Speaker 8: like looking at porn pornographic images online of men and

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Speaker 8: women having sex, let's say, and then you know, pretty

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Speaker 8: soon that's not enough. So then they're going to graduate

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Speaker 8: to maybe something a little bit more kinky. That's not enough.

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Speaker 8: Then they go to torture porn, where maybe it's a BDSM,

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Speaker 8: maybe a woman being held in a cage, maybe someone

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Speaker 8: being splashed, someone being tortured, you know, knives being run

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Speaker 8: across a person's back, some man's hand being squished, under

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Speaker 8: a woman's heel, you know, these kinds of things. And

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Speaker 8: at a certain point that's not enough either. So then

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Speaker 8: the perpetrator graduates to killing and then killing enough. Now

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Speaker 8: he has to really have control over the entire family.

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Speaker 8: I mean remember BTK killer Dennis Raider. He did not

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Speaker 8: just find women to kill. He killed entire families he

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Speaker 8: held in the hostage. You know, it's like nothing is

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Speaker 8: quite enough. So when I look at the picture, which

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Speaker 8: is kind of like a rorshack test, that white sheet

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Speaker 8: of paper with all these images and people are looking

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Speaker 8: into this excavation site, it really could be anything. I mean,

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Speaker 8: it's just sort of that it's us for prabs what

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Speaker 8: this guy wanted to hold on to and why he

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Speaker 8: discarded certain things.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of discarding, not just discarding, digging in the yard

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Speaker 2: at all hours of the day and night, burning items

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Speaker 2: tacos now are cut In ninety three from News Nation,

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Speaker 2: this is a neighbor of humans.

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Speaker 13: I was watching TV in my basement, went outside. Who

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Speaker 13: was like one or two in the morning the same

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Speaker 13: time that I I saw him, you know, park his

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Speaker 13: car in front of his house and leave it idle.

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Speaker 13: But when I was eighteen nineteen years old, I heard

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Speaker 13: digging in the backyard next door. Now I really wanted

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Speaker 13: to go and check out what it was, and like,

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Speaker 13: look through the fence. The fence had little fake ress

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Speaker 13: on it. Something stopped myself from doing it. You know,

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Speaker 13: I was nervous. I wasn't too sure what I was

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Speaker 13: hearing at the time. But now with everything coming to fruition,

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Speaker 13: you know, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

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Speaker 2: Good digging in the backyard at two a m and more,

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Speaker 2: let's not cut ninety one.

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Speaker 13: You know, every instance, even just the way he looked,

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Speaker 13: I always thought this guy was a weirdo, you know,

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Speaker 13: freaking everything that's come up, you know, the vile Google

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Speaker 13: searches that he's had. You know, this all makes sense

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Speaker 13: to me now. He would burn his garbage and I

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Speaker 13: would smell it, and I would always wonder, I'm like,

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Speaker 13: why is this guy burning his garbage again? But you know,

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Speaker 13: it seemed to be like once every few weeks, I

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Speaker 13: would smell garbage burning it at his house.

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Speaker 2: Sean McCollum, joining us a forensic expert, Cheryl, I understand

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Speaker 2: a lot of people in areas are allowed to burn

432
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 2: their trash, but every other week, you know. It reminds

433
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 2: me of and this digging and trash burning would take

434
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 2: place at odd hours of the day and night. It

435
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 2: reminds me of Stephen Avery, who became a media darling

436
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 2: after someone cobbled together a documentary called Making a Murderer.

437
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: And there's no question he murdered Teresa Halback, a very young,

438
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 2: beautiful photographer that came to take a photo at his

439
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 2: home a salvage lot, a car, a vehicle he was selling,

440
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: never seen again. He stayed up all night and this

441
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: is according to friends and family members, blood relatives, stirring

442
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: a fire pit in the backyard. Later, the studs off

443
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: the back of Teresa Hallback's Dacy Fuente's jeans were found there,

444
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 2: along with other indicators like teeth in that fire pit.

445
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: All right, so when your neighbor is digging and burning

446
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: at odd hours of the day and night, just think

447
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: Stephen Avery, I mean Cheryl jump in.

448
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 4: Well, we know Wayne Williams burned things. Yep, we know

449
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 4: the accused killer and Delphi Richard Allen burn things in

450
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 4: a fire pit.

451
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 8: This is not new.

452
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 4: They burn things that they know if a loved one

453
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 4: or eventually law enforcement were too fine, They're not going

454
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 4: to have a way to explain what these things are,

455
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 4: so they have to get rid of it the best

456
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 4: way that they know, and that's by burning it. What

457
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 4: you're probably seeing on that sheet that they're taking the

458
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 4: photograph of those items are going to be connected, I believe,

459
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 4: to individual victims, whether they're belt bunkers or zippers or

460
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 4: maybe even a holster. He knew he had to bury

461
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 4: it to get away, to get it out of sight.

462
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 11: He didn't even.

463
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 4: Trust putting it in garbage. He had to try to

464
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 4: destroy it and then bury it.

465
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: You know what's really interesting, well, all of it is.

466
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: But Chris mcdonnald joining me, Director Cold Case Foundation, former

467
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: homicide detective, host of The Interview Room, has investigated and

468
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: cracked many of them, around three hundred homicides. Chris, it's

469
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 2: the cover up. Do I have to say Watergate the

470
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: burglary is bad enough, But I mean this spine was

471
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: bad enough at the cover up. That's what did it.

472
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 2: In the Chase Master case we were just talking about

473
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 2: the part would have gotten away if he hadn't covered

474
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: up the evidence in his back yard. Hello, and now

475
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: we've got neighbors saying this guy is out digging and

476
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: burning at two o'clock in the morning. Look, I don't

477
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: want to be Gladys Kravitz. I guess you're familiar with

478
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 2: which the nosy next door neighbor, but that is not normal.

479
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough.

480
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 7: Yeah. And you know what's interesting is Nancio's Please you'll

481
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 7: think about this with him even further. You know, Gacy,

482
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 7: remember used to put people under his house, and he

483
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 7: was a contractor, and he would tell his neighbors when

484
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 7: they would smell stuff. All the sewers backed up, okay,

485
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 7: and everybody was like, oh, okay, you know that's weird.

486
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 7: And so it's not It's not an anomaly for this

487
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 7: neighbor next door to say, you know, hey, I had

488
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 7: a little fear about this guy based on the fact that,

489
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 7: you know, he just didn't fit the mold of everybody

490
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 7: else in the neighborhood. But what's interesting is that house

491
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 7: and of itself is frozen in time. And I was

492
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 7: talking to you know, one of my colleagues on the

493
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 7: Cold Case Foundation, doctor Bracado, last night, and he said, look,

494
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 7: this whole thing he feels is going to be you know,

495
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 7: it's going to come down to when his father died

496
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 7: and his mother took over and and I'm not going

497
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 7: to go down that road yet, you know, with you,

498
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 7: because I know you're headed that way. But at the

499
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 7: same time time, if we really look at what he's

500
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 7: doing here, this is a total control of not only

501
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 7: the victims, but his environment and how he is destroying

502
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 7: all of the post incident type of evidence potential that

503
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 7: Cheryl was just talking about.

504
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: This guy can't control here, BENI.

505
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 8: You know, is he I see, I'm always conflicted about this.

506
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 8: Is he destroying evidence primarily? Or was he keeping the

507
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 8: victims and the body parts around as long as possible

508
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 8: to eke out as much sexual excitement as possible, and

509
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 8: then in some messy, hasty way he had to get

510
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 8: rid of them. It's the last minutes. He reminds me

511
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 8: a little bit of like a teenager addicted to video

512
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 8: games and you walk into the room and there's just

513
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 8: trash and you know, leftover food and pizza crust and everything,

514
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 8: and they're just staring into that video screen and nothing

515
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 8: else matters to them until they get in trouble with

516
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 8: their mother and they have to shut everything down real

517
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 8: quickly until they can get back to their video games. Again,

518
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 8: and I think it's a little bit like that. I

519
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 8: mean women maybe being held in dog cages, held in

520
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 8: the soundproof room setishize objects being kept around and tell

521
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 8: somebody's about to discover them, and then the cover up

522
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 8: is not well thought out. It's just secondary.

523
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: Well, if this neighbor is to be believed, he was

524
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: digging and burning years ago. This didn't just happen, you know,

525
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: just before he became a suspect, so he has a

526
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: history of that. And also sitting in his car at

527
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 2: one or two o'clock in the morning with the car

528
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: running on the doors locked. Okay, you know what if

529
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: I found my husband, David Lynch sitting out in the

530
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: car at two o'clock in the morning, I would absolutely

531
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: call his mother, even if it required a seance to

532
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: do it.

533
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.

534
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: Guys More is unfolding? Is duck hunting one of his covers?

535
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: Don't laugh. Take a listener our cut ninety five Our

536
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: friends at Inside Edition.

537
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 14: Did the cues Gilgo Beach serial killer use duck hunting

538
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 14: as cover to hide the bodies of the victims. That's

539
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 14: the latest theory in the probe gripping America. I went

540
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 14: out with former FBI investigator Bill Daily across these remote

541
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 14: bays and coves. We're close to Gyilgo Beach where the

542
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 14: bodies were found. The home of the suspect, Rex Huerman

543
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 14: is about five miles that way. Please say Huerman was

544
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 14: an avid duck hunter who knows these waters well.

545
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: And also the camouflage burrow at bags, the coverings that

546
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: were used to dispose of at least four of the

547
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 2: victims is also used can be used for duck hunting.

548
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: But that's not all. We have been talking about potential

549
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: connections to Vegas where he has a luxury time share

550
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: that he visits as he said, according to Kristen Thorne

551
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: at ABC Quote for Pleasure, also a remote compound in

552
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: South Carolina near his brother but now Atlantic City. But first,

553
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: let's start with an actual potential victim, an unsolved murder.

554
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 2: Take us our cut eighty two are friends at CBS.

555
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 15: Investigators are looking to see if Huerman is connected to

556
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 15: other unsolved murders throughout the county and the country. Suffolk

557
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 15: County officials have executed several warrants, including in South Carolina

558
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 15: and Las Vegas, where the alleged killer had ties. Police

559
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 15: in South Carolina are looking into whether a twenty fourteen

560
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 15: missing person case could be tied to Hueman as well.

561
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 15: Eighteen year old Eliabel went missing about twenty miles from

562
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 15: where he Yuerman owned land, but so far police have

563
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 15: found no connection.

564
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 2: So there's actually a name now attached to that investigation.

565
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 2: But I'm now hearing about Atlantic City as well. What

566
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: do we know about that? Take a listen to our

567
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: cut eighty three.

568
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 15: Long Island investigators are actively working with Atlantic City police

569
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 15: to determine if Huerman is involved in a string of

570
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 15: unsolved killings of young women.

571
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 14: As it stands right now, these charges are just allegations,

572
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 14: but we look very much forward to proving them in court.

573
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 15: Part of what led to Hureman's arrest were hairstrands found

574
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 15: on the victims that matched his wife's hair. She has

575
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 15: now filed for divorce. According to her attorney, She and

576
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 15: their adult children are still in shock that they were

577
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 15: told to leave this home with cloths on their back.

578
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: And Vegas. Take a list in our cut one ten

579
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: our friends at ABC.

580
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 16: The investigation expanding to other states. Police in Las Vegas, Nevada,

581
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 16: say they're looking into possible con actions to unsolved cases.

582
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 16: Kureman and his wife owned a time share at this

583
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 16: Las Vegas condo complex called Club da Solange in rock Hill,

584
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 16: South Carolina. Police trying to determine if Huerman could be

585
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 16: connected to the twenty fourteen disappearance of Eliah Bell. The

586
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 16: eighteen year old went missing about twenty miles from the

587
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 16: vacant lots Huerman owned there.

588
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 2: So we've got South Carolina where warrants have been issued, Vegas,

589
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 2: where warrants have been issued by Suffolk police in New

590
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 2: York Bawa's circle. Back to the Atlantic City issue. Take

591
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 2: a listen to our friends at Inside edition and cut

592
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: ninety eight.

593
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 14: New Jersey police are investigating possible links with four earily

594
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 14: similar murders in Atlantic City. The terrain around the drainage

595
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 14: ditch where the bodies were found looks like Gyogo Beach.

596
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 6: Any of these coal cases that either relate to sex

597
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 6: workers or even other people who have disappeared could relate

598
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 6: to him.

599
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: And speaking of sex workers, apparently sex workers had raised

600
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: the alarm Heureman years ago, nothing was done. Take a

601
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: listen to our friend Kristin Thorn ABC seven, cut eighty nine.

602
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 5: When the name Rex Huerman came out, she ran his

603
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 5: information through her phone.

604
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 17: One of the phone numbers was saved as do not

605
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 17: answer from twenty twenty.

606
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 8: I don't remember the.

607
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 17: Specific details of how or why that happened, but if

608
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 17: I get a vibe from somebody that this person is scary,

609
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 17: that's when I'll save them as.

610
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 8: Do not answer.

611
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 5: The woman says she was living in Massapequa at the time, so.

612
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 17: It's really scary to find out that the person was

613
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 17: actually only less than a mile from me.

614
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: Kristen Thorn is joining US investigative reporter, very well known

615
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 2: who's been on this case from the beginning at ABC seven.

616
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: You can also find her on the Hulu true crime

617
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 2: show Missing So Kristin Thorn. The sex workers, one of

618
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: them at least putting him on a do not answer list.

619
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: That was back in twenty twenty. She lived in Massapequa

620
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 2: and human freaked her out so much she wouldn't even

621
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: take calls. And we're now learning thanks to you, that

622
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: many sex workers would not take calls from the Hamptons

623
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: because they were so afraid of a serial killer, but

624
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 2: nothing was done.

625
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, Nancy, and I think we're also really illuminating for

626
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 5: me and speaking with these sex workers from this area

627
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 5: is that they are hearing from fellow workers that agencies

628
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 5: in New York City had contacted law enforcement about rex

629
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 5: Hureman that he was a problematic client. And when I

630
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 5: asked them, what do you mean problematic? And have you

631
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 5: seen anywhere on these sites that you're on women talking

632
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 5: about why he was problematic? And they said no. But

633
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 5: that still is very concerning to me. It would not

634
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 5: be surprising that sex workers who felt that this was

635
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 5: not a good situation were contacting law enforcement, and law

636
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 5: enforcement was not paying attention to them. And so we

637
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 5: know that there may have been hints about him throughout

638
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 5: the years. But again they're coming from communities and from

639
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 5: groups of people that aren't often listening.

640
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 4: To amen question.

641
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, jump in, go ahead.

642
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 4: You and I have spent plenty of time on FIB.

643
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 4: We know the track. We understand this population. Sex workers

644
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 4: have people come to them for fetishes and desires and

645
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 4: fantasies that are so out of bound and so repulsive

646
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 4: they have to go to somebody to pay them to

647
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 4: do it. If you have somebody from that community saying

648
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 4: this guy freaks me out, think what he has to

649
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,879
Speaker 4: do to freak her out when all of these other

650
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 4: thousands of men, hundreds of men have not.

651
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: You're so right, it's my understanding. The fifty nine year

652
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: old architect and father of two was very calm and

653
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: very quiet when he was arrested on allegations of being

654
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 2: a serial killer and only said why and was very

655
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: calm about it. You know, most people will be jumping

656
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: out of their skin, I mean, why are you arresting me?

657
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: Throwing a fit. He was very calm, and if you

658
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: look at the video of him being arrested, it it

659
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: bears out what investigators are saying, Chris jump in.

660
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 7: You know, listening. That's why it's really important from an

661
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 7: investigative process, while this thing is moving, you know, fluidly

662
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 7: day to day, it's it's really important to pay attention

663
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 7: to that victimology in relationship to the type of victims

664
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 7: that this individual was, you know, picking, selecting. And then

665
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 7: when you hear about his you know, reaction here at

666
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 7: the time of his arrest, you know, it's almost as if, well, okay,

667
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 7: it's it may be over. I'm not sure yet, but

668
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 7: if he reminds me of Porter down in Shan Diego,

669
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 7: they forty three body dumps, and that guy, you know,

670
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 7: David Porter, was going right after the same kind of victimology.

671
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 7: So if we take him I e. Herman here, and

672
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 7: we look at the type of victim he's selecting, and

673
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 7: then we measure it against the other type of individuals

674
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,439
Speaker 7: doing this, then they're totally different. And so this guy

675
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 7: is much more calculating and much more willing to take

676
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 7: higher risk and so I don't think it was a

677
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 7: big surprise to him that ultimately with technology would touch

678
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 7: up to him.

679
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: I agree, guys, we are just getting late breaking news

680
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: right now from the Suffolk County Police. There is not

681
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 2: a sound proof room. There is, however, a vault, a

682
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 2: vault likely lined with cement. Goodbye friend,