WEBVTT - Episode 6 - Trial Preparation / Re-Capturing El Chapo 0:00:01.560 --> 0:00:04.680 I think there's something weird or. 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:10.000 Supernatural about twins, and you know, I can't even explain it. 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:14.560 But I remember the first time. 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.880 The government came to prepped me for the Chapel trial. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.919 You have like, how many languages do you speak? And 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:28.160 I said three, and they're like okay. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:33.600 English, Spanish, and the third one like twin and they're 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.600 like okay, I said, because I realized over the years 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:38.760 of my brother and I had like especially way to communicate. 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:45.680 And you notice it more when you were apart, because 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.120 I couldn't communicate with others as well as I did 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.640 with him, because him and I shared so much together, 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.080 so many in the same experiences in life and the 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:54.440 day to. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:59.320 Day activities that he understood. I was saying thing without 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:00.800 me say much. 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:16.240 Hey, it's fifty and I'm Charlie Webster. This is surviving 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.800 El Chapel, the Twins who brought down a drug lord 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.039 Season two. 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.919 L Chapel's escape was so much bigger than the Florist Twins. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.400 It was labeled a national embarrassment to Mexico and the 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:41.520 then president and U. K. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:42.480 Penyonieto. 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:46.520 He and his government were already out of favor due 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.440 to increasing allegations of corruption and violence. 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.320 El Chapel escaping mint that it got real between the 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.960 US and Mexico, especially as the US had been pushing 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:01.040 for El Chapel's extradition for exactly this reason. It was 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:02.960 a symbol of deep corruption in Mexico. 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:08.239 At the same time, locals in Sinaloa were optimistic. News 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:13.960 of El Chapo's return prompted parties and celebratory gunfire. While 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.519 El Chapo had been in prison, his son Ivan Archivaldo 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.239 had been running the cartel. Locals felt he was too 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.360 unstable and El Chapo's return would bring back order to 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.280 the region. He was already viewed by many as a 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:33.240 Robin Hood figure. Almost immediately, the Mexican government put out 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.040 a three point eight million dollar reward for information leading 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:38.320 to El Chapo's capture. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.079 Three months later, El Chapo met with Sean Pinn for 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.840 that Rolling Stones in Tea, you know exactly the one 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:49.040 I'm talking about. El Chapel's return strengthen this cartel's power. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.920 He was known as the internal future for the Florist Twins. 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:58.160 Even more uncertainty, he thought El Chapo would never be 0:02:58.200 --> 0:02:58.800 caught again. 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.799 I cannot believe he actually pulls that off, you know, 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:08.720 And I think that that alone probably. 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:17.800 Have the cartel like in uh situational power, you know. 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.760 I think that that is cable is bigger than just 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.640 him escaping and fill the cartel when it should have 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:30.040 been on its way out, it had just you know 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:34.080 a little more forced to it. You tend to feel 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.240 like that that's the team you want to be with. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:40.720 When they get away with things like that. 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.640 Did it make you question what team you were on 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.400 in not in that merriment na month. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.960 I mean, I'm gonna tell you something. I would say 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:54.800 I was impressed. I mean, but no, he's on the 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.640 losing side. Everyone who's in that life is on the 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.280 losing side. I don't care who you are. I don't 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.960 care how many people you have with. It's the only 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:03.600 a matter of time. 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:10.280 Were you considered by him escaping and the continuous power 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:15.000 of the cartel, but it made it more dangerous for 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:16.000 you and your family? 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.159 Were they more likely to come after you? Then? 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.599 Yeah? Of course, of course they're still like real strong. 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.880 But then sometimes I would think that would be scary 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.280 if they were, if you thought they were gone, if 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:31.960 you thought they didn't exist, I think it would be 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:38.280 worse because sometimes they exist like if you thought they 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.440 lost their power and they just were completely superior. I 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:43.599 think that's what happened, like in Columbia, Like Okay, they 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.600 didn't have popular school war anymore, but that doesn't mean 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:51.000 that they weren't people as powerful as him or with 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:56.320 that kind of you know, controlling power, like in place 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.800 you know where maybe it was a lot more people, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.320 but they were still there everything. When they're like hiding 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.480 in the shadows, it's kind of scary for me, you know, 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:09.920 to think that us. It's kind of you're that sense 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.599 of security, all sense of security, you think like, Okay, 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:13.039 they're gone. 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:15.800 For me, I'm the same person like they're not gone. 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:17.159 I know they're not gonna. I know they're there. 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:22.719 At that point, there's one thing I need for sure, 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.880 that the Mexican government was gonna be like, you know, America, 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:27.839 you know, USA, do whatever you want to catch this 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:34.880 guy like Retir. And from a business perspective, me being 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.479 in the drug business and me still have been down 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:40.560 there at that time, I would have been like, yeah, 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:42.839 Li's set him up because he's causing too much shrug, 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.680 Like the whole this whole drug business doesn't revolve around 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.479 one person. It's not all about Chop or all about 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.680 my there's it's a big, you know, community of people 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.880 that it takes to keep this going. And and he 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.320 was just would be a person that was just creating 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:02.560 too many problems. 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.600 Do you get the impression right that the way it's 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.280 publicized is if Chapa is the. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.800 God and that controls everything. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:15.400 I mean, he's a major figure, you know, but there's 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:19.760 a lot of people in this business. But you know, 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.960 like another thing that where I feel like like my 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.240 brother and I like knowing him in a different level 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.159 and not just like you know, the more personal level 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:33.440 that I've seen him being like, I've seen his flaws, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:39.880 you know, I've seen things that I disagree with, the 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:45.320 things I didn't like, and like to imagine again that 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.320 people died every time they were chasing him around. You know, 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.960 he left ran away and people were left there to 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.200 fight from and die, you know. 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.080 And then the thing like, you know, many. 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.320 People during those six months he was free, how I mean, 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.320 people probably lost their lives protecting him while he's invading 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:04.160 law enforcement. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:06.000 Then he gets. 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:13.960 Caught on January eighth, twenty sixteen, tipped off in parts 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.840 after a large order of Tacos Mexican naval marines surrounded 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:28.680 a house in Los Mitos, on the coast of Sineloa. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.200 They've been scoping out the house for a while. 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:35.320 Phone interceptions suggested someone high up in the cartel was coming. 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:43.720 In the early hours of the morning, a huge gunfight 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:59.560 broke out as the marines entered the house. Five of 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.600 el proposed men were killed in the gunfight, as well 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:06.480 as one marine. When they finally entered the house, El 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:11.400 Chapo had once again vanished. He had two tunnels built 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.760 into the house, one a decoy tunnel under the fridge 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.600 designed to confuse officials, the other behind a mirror. 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:20.720 This was the one he fled through. 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:23.440 It was almost the same length as the tunnel he 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.360 escaped from prison. In The tunnel behind the mirror led 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.680 to a street right near a walmart. El Chapo was 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:36.640 with his most ruthless assassin, Ivancholo, was simply Elchollo. The 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.640 two of them stole a taxi at gunpoint and sped away. 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.360 The cab driver flagged down another cabby to radio that 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:51.120 he'd been carjacked. The Mexican authorities were listening. El Chapo 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.120 and Elchollo decided to ditch the car to avoid capture. 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.439 At the next traffic light, they approached a red Ford 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:01.920 focus inside an elderly woman, her daughter, and five year 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.720 old grandson. Achollo pulled out his weapon and forced them 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.000 out of the car, but not before giving the woman 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.440 her purse. He and Chappo got in, but by that 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:18.319 time the authorities had caught up in a literal Mexican standoff. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.200 El Chapo told the police that they would all die. 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.400 The cartel was readying a small army of forty assassins 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.320 to rescue him. The police took Al Chapo to a 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.600 local motel, the Hotel d'Eu, to wait for backup. The 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.200 Hotel duh is not just any old motel. It's a 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.760 sex motel which could be rented at the cost of 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:43.600 three hundred paysos sixteen US dollars for six hours. There's 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.040 a famous photo online that you can look at of 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:50.360 a very filthy El Chapo sitting handcuffed on beige satin 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:55.120 sheets in room fifty one. El Chapo desperately tried to 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.720 bribe the police to let him go, but it was 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.640 too late. Back up arrived and he was taken by 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:08.880 helicopter to Mexico City President Nieto tweeted, mission accomplished. 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:16.160 We got him. 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.360 He gets re arrested January eighth or whatever. 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.960 And yet like within a week, the governments at my 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:25.400 prison facility and I'm signing the extradition papers. 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:26.240 Capital was. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:35.920 That was a real like like shocking, you know, moment 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.000 to be signing those papers. 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:41.719 You know, we hear like. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.680 We hear a bar capone and you have those bad 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.199 guys like pom Pobscawachapo was. 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.439 It was like that moment you know in history. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:58.320 That I never thought I would be a part of 0:10:59.360 --> 0:10:59.720 the call. 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.439 That heat recorded of al Chappo was the key piece 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.640 of evidence that the US government was using to convict 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.000 l Chapo. So Pete had to be the one to 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.960 sign the extradition papers. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.720 For certain people in that case, like Chapo was byd 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:19.400 Once they're arrested, they they put a package together, you 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.760 know together. You know, the American government would requests or 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.640 formally requests extradition of a of a person, and the 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.880 Office of External Affairs will handle most of that process. 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.160 So you submit certain papers like evidence that they. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:41.480 Have and and sometimes they want to know, they want 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.040 to know something, they want to ask a couple of 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:48.640 questions about you know, you're basically your testimony, right, you know, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.920 just I guess, just to do their due diligence, and 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:54.800 before they extradized someone that that you know, they have 0:11:55.360 --> 0:12:00.000 enough sufficient evidence, you know, to request them. 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.199 For the US to seek the extradition of someone from abroad, 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:06.480 they have to put in a formal request supported by 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.880 sufficient and certified evidence that a crime has been committed. 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.240 So when did you find out that you've got to 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:15.920 stand up and testify against him? 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:20.680 He went to Torown November twenty eighteen. It was just 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.640 right before exactly a year to the date, like like 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.200 November twenty seventeen. They came to see me in just 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.280 as a kind of a pre interview of how I 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:37.120 felt about testifying and was I going to be able 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.200 to be a good witness. 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.000 So they come to see you as in the prison 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.160 and then yes, you then like, how's it work? 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:56.439 Yeah, they comes to my attorney was present, the Chicago officers, president, 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:01.000 a prosecutor, Agentine, and here comes a team to the 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.359 New York team. 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:06.800 There's like eight of 'em, eight prosecutors. 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.760 Why is it in like a special read more? 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.640 Yeah, it's like it's actually our visiting room sort our 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:14.080 visit room. 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:14.640 They come in. 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.840 And and you walk into the hun there's like all 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:20.439 these people there and you're just like, it's so awkward. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:28.000 And introduce themselves and can't tell you what they're there for. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.240 I just just wanna go over some of the things 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.599 about my case and ask your questions, you know, like 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.720 random questions, like I tell you, I'll never forget that. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.040 She asks me, so, how many languages do you speak? 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:50.400 I would say I'm fluent in English, Spanish, and twin. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:53.679 The prosecutor look at me, like, what do you mean. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.600 I'm like, oh, my brother and I we have a 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.000 special way to communicate. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:58.000 With each other. 0:13:59.800 --> 0:13:59.920 Right. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.360 That was US attorney Andrea Goldborg asking Pete what languages 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:10.160 he speaks, English, Spanish and twin. If you remember, back 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.280 in episode four, Jay talked about having to relearn how 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.800 to communicate after being separated for the first time from 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:21.400 his identical twin brother Pete. Twin talk is actually not uncommon. 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:26.520 It's called cryptophasia, a form of autonomous language, and happens 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.720 in up to forty percent of all twins. While the 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.080 siblings caldn't understand each other, just fine, no one else 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.600 will have any idea what they're talking about. In the 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.480 prison visiting room, Pete was surrounded by the team of 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.640 attorneys the government had assembled for the El Chapo case. 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.400 Pete worked closely with assistant US attorneys Andrew Goldbarg and 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.800 Adam Fels, both known and celebrator for taking down some 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.080 of the world's most renowned drug lords and terrorists, including 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.640 Colombian kingpins Fan Carlos Ramirez and Al Loco. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.480 I was fortunate, you know, to have been chosen to 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:05.480 work with Adam Fellas. 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:07.400 Yeah, all my respect. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:11.720 He was like super intelligent, you know, it's so made 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:14.640 me feel comfortable, you know, patient with me. 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.720 He understood my situation. He was like the. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:28.800 Prosecutor was in charge of like my peppery mean, he 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.920 was gonna be the one question in me talent to 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.040 people like you could touch and talking to him out 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:43.640 They're like they're like they sent the best m h. 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:58.560 He was the one on the recording of the phone 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.760 call with Chapo, so he was the only one who 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.920 would need to testify. He spent a year prepping for 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:08.280 the trial, primarily with Adam Fels. Each month, the team 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.560 would stop by and go over the details of the 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.800 case and what Pete was going to say. They did 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.000 mock trials and did as much as they could to 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:21.680 prepare Pete for potential cross examination from el Chapo's attorneys. Finally, 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.880 as Christmas of twenty eighteen approached, Pete had to make 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.040 his way across the country to el Chapo's trial in 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:28.640 New York. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.480 The last time I seen the prosecutors in my prison, 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.480 they're like, Okay, next time I'll see you will be 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:42.880 you know, New York. That's nerve working to feel that 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.960 the reality of it against kind of step in and 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.160 I'm like constantly anxious, like it brought so much like 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.520 stressed me and it shouldn't have, but he did. I 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.880 can't sleep, I can't I think, I can't not hungry, 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.040 I'm not you know, ain't about it every day. 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:04.800 Like what do you think drove that overwhelming feeling? Do 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.400 you think it was the anticipation and anxiety, the fear. 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.520 Like everything and everything all into one, like just everything 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.560 like like those feelings and like of course like cleaning 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.920 with my own emotions, like thinking about even my dad, 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:22.480 like like this is the biggest form of mentioning you 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:22.960 could do. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.480 You know, did his words come in your hat. 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.280 Of course, a lot of people cooperate, and you know, 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:31.800 they never see a court room, you know, and I 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:36.399 thought that was going to be the case. And it 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.560 was so nervous, and I remember them finally kind of 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.679 telling me, like get ready that morning. 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:44.639 It's like seven in the morning. They get ready. 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.040 I told you this, did they come and. 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:50.080 The staff comes and told you, like get. 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:55.040 Ready, and the phones are off and they do, you know, 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.840 certain things for security, so they don't come to like ninth. 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:01.359 Those hours were like. 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.479 I gotta come out torture. What were you doing like pasting? 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:06.639 Yeah, Patian, just you know, and they come up and 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.600 pull it through bees and they shackle you and they 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:15.359 put you in the back of a armored vehicle with 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.240 the windows covered, and they always pick like a nearby 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.439 like airfield, so you know, on the road for a 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.720 long period of time. And then they pull you up 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.080 to the private jet and there's more agents that are 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.879 waiting for your marshals, marshall agents trying in charge of 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.919 your protection, and we cram up, We all cramb up 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.560 into the little chat and it was the most uncomfortable 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:46.160 five and anine a half hours, like like sitting there 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.200 like unable like to stretch my fear anything, and being 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:54.159 sick to my stomach, you know, like nervous just thinking 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.359 about what's to come, thinking about my family, make so 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:57.560 many emotions. 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.640 Were you like shoulders to shoulder with. 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.199 The yeah with that end, and you know, one in 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.320 front of me is his feet offstairs down in front 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.879 of me. I can't even you know, sit comfortable, and 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.719 I'm shackled, so it makes it a lot more uncomfortable. 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.760 They usually give you, like, you know, some street clothes 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.600 like to travel because you know, the pilot doesn't know 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.080 who you are. You know, no one knows who you are. 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:22.400 And I'm just like. 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:23.480 In some regular sweats. 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.159 There's this long ride and we find to somewhere like 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:37.679 Connecticut or something, and then we have a long riding 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:42.520 traffic and I'm shackled by listen like I'm already tired 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.879 of sitting and my back hurts, and I'm anxious and 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.000 I'm worried, and I'm sick to my stomach, and I 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:56.000 have an ate and they're playing like the just awful 0:19:56.080 --> 0:20:02.440 classic music. I can't look out the window, you know, 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.240 and it's making it's felt like torture, like I should 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:08.160 have got time off. Just just sitting in the back 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.360 of that try, I felt like I told him, I said, 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.000 I need to tell you guys something. 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.800 I said. The rider took what the kidnappers was better 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:21.399 than this. They just left on me. It just you know, 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.520 I think the stress was already kind of built up. 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.760 How many do you reckon we're in that convoy in that. 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:32.199 Kind of probably twelve at least martials And then you 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:33.760 get there, I'm like, where are they going to put me? 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:36.399 And then, you know, every prisoner understands what it is 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.640 to be transferred from prison to prison into another unit 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:40.040 or whatever. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.399 You're like, you're going straight to the whole, you know. 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:44.920 So I thought about that, You're going to share to 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:45.200 the whole? 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.840 And is that what happened every time then? Anywhere? 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:50.000 Yeah? Most of the time. Yeah. 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.040 So there are a. 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.040 Few different reasons you might end up in solitary confinements, 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:56.160 or as Pete refers to. 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:57.920 It as the shoe or the hole. 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.320 Disciplinary reasons is just one of them. Often prisoners are 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:07.000 temporarily put in solitary confinement for administrative reasons, for protection, 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:08.879 or while being transferred. 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:11.920 That's why Pete ended up in solitary a lot. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.040 Pete was taken to MCC New York, the same prison 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.199 Jay was taken to when the twins were first separated 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.800 because of the billboards. If you remember, he described it 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.160 as the worst place and told us that prisoners prepared 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.040 the food, adding a couple of dead roachors for flavor. 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.120 It's where Jeffrey Epstein was held, and as Pete arrived, 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:36.200 it also happened to be where El Chapo was being held. 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:41.240 So we going on. 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:45.320 They put in I'm not sure where I'm at, but 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:49.960 they're walking on these long hallways and it's dirty and ugly, 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.760 and they come into the receiving area of the MCC. 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.679 I remember the Marshall came up to the glass window 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.280 of MCC New York here and he's like bangs like 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:04.960 on the windows. They have like a sliding bulletproof plast 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.960 store and it's like almost like a drive through kind 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:08.960 like that can help you. 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:11.399 And then. 0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.000 There's a woman there, a short like Latin like woman 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:23.960 Puerto Rican or something, and she purses his ass out 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:28.040 like what the fuck do you want? What the fuck 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.439 give me your ID like talk something like that. I'm like, 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.680 I'm in New York. That's for sure, you know what 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.280 I'm saying. Like I'm in New York and they pull 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.560 you in and you get that, you know, the mcc uniform. 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:45.800 Mcc uniform just like blue guarb, like no pants, pull shirt, 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.280 and there's a box with like prison clothes, you know, 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.040 like when you go out, they'll put your stuff in 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:53.720 a box and you got to get fresh clothes in 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.879 fresh clothes, you know, press clothed you leave out and 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:59.720 they'll clothes you come in. You can't take what they'll 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:03.920 give you those he left behind, you know, for security reasons. 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:08.040 They want to you know, which closer or whatever. And 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:14.400 they're like a cubicles like like like locker cuba open. 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.040 Just open a little square shelving and things. 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.280 Like that and like yeah, kind of square shovels against 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:18.960 the wall. 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:26.359 And I'm like, we'll flow chop one. They're like, that's 0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:30.680 his clothes right there. And I was like that felt 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:32.920 weird to see if because they put mine right next 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:36.359 to him, you know, like we're probably the same size. 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:39.560 Oh my god, that must have felt so strange. 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:41.560 That was weird, Like you have to know, like, man, 0:23:41.560 --> 0:23:43.800 we're in the same building. I think that's weird. 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:48.919 Did it feel kind of more reopen, you like. 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:51.639 But then his clothes, Yeah, I mean, of course it 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:53.520 didn't feel like not only they're his clothes, that means 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.600 that he's right in the same building with me. 0:23:58.280 --> 0:24:01.240 It brings back that little anxiety a little bit. 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:08.560 It's such a you know things feeling that overcomes you, 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:12.760 that you feel you feel over and over and over. 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.679 They walked me down, they moved me through the building, 0:24:20.720 --> 0:24:23.680 and I kind of get the feeling like I'm going 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:29.240 to the the special unit in MCAC, like the. 0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:32.160 Winsick unit, and that at least it was a little 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:33.840 bit better than the shoe. 0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:37.359 And you know, there's a couple of people that I 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:40.359 already knew that was in another prison was before, and 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:44.240 a couple of people that knew my brother. It makes 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:46.159 it less kind of like awkward, you know. And they 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:47.679 put you in the CEW and they put me with 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:51.280