1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: I think there's something weird or. 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 2: Supernatural about twins, and you know, I can't even explain it. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: But I remember the first time. 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: The government came to prepped me for the Chapel trial. 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: You have like, how many languages do you speak? And 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: I said three, and they're like okay. 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: English, Spanish, and the third one like twin and they're 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 2: like okay, I said, because I realized over the years 9 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: of my brother and I had like especially way to communicate. 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: And you notice it more when you were apart, because 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: I couldn't communicate with others as well as I did 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 2: with him, because him and I shared so much together, 13 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: so many in the same experiences in life and the 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: day to. 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: Day activities that he understood. I was saying thing without 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: me say much. 17 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 3: Hey, it's fifty and I'm Charlie Webster. This is surviving 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: El Chapel, the Twins who brought down a drug lord 19 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 3: Season two. 20 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,919 Speaker 4: L Chapel's escape was so much bigger than the Florist Twins. 21 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 3: It was labeled a national embarrassment to Mexico and the 22 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 3: then president and U. K. 23 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 5: Penyonieto. 24 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 3: He and his government were already out of favor due 25 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 3: to increasing allegations of corruption and violence. 26 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 4: El Chapel escaping mint that it got real between the 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 4: US and Mexico, especially as the US had been pushing 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 4: for El Chapel's extradition for exactly this reason. It was 29 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 4: a symbol of deep corruption in Mexico. 30 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 3: At the same time, locals in Sinaloa were optimistic. News 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 3: of El Chapo's return prompted parties and celebratory gunfire. While 32 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 3: El Chapo had been in prison, his son Ivan Archivaldo 33 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 3: had been running the cartel. Locals felt he was too 34 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 3: unstable and El Chapo's return would bring back order to 35 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 3: the region. He was already viewed by many as a 36 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: Robin Hood figure. Almost immediately, the Mexican government put out 37 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 3: a three point eight million dollar reward for information leading 38 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 3: to El Chapo's capture. 39 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 4: Three months later, El Chapo met with Sean Pinn for 40 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 4: that Rolling Stones in Tea, you know exactly the one 41 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 4: I'm talking about. El Chapel's return strengthen this cartel's power. 42 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 4: He was known as the internal future for the Florist Twins. 43 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 4: Even more uncertainty, he thought El Chapo would never be 44 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 4: caught again. 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 2: I cannot believe he actually pulls that off, you know, 46 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 2: And I think that that alone probably. 47 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: Have the cartel like in uh situational power, you know. 48 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: I think that that is cable is bigger than just 49 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 2: him escaping and fill the cartel when it should have 50 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: been on its way out, it had just you know 51 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 2: a little more forced to it. You tend to feel 52 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: like that that's the team you want to be with. 53 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: When they get away with things like that. 54 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 6: Did it make you question what team you were on 55 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 6: in not in that merriment na month. 56 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm gonna tell you something. I would say 57 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: I was impressed. I mean, but no, he's on the 58 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: losing side. Everyone who's in that life is on the 59 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 2: losing side. I don't care who you are. I don't 60 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: care how many people you have with. It's the only 61 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: a matter of time. 62 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 7: Were you considered by him escaping and the continuous power 63 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 7: of the cartel, but it made it more dangerous for 64 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 7: you and your family? 65 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 6: Were they more likely to come after you? Then? 66 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: Yeah? Of course, of course they're still like real strong. 67 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: But then sometimes I would think that would be scary 68 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 2: if they were, if you thought they were gone, if 69 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: you thought they didn't exist, I think it would be 70 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: worse because sometimes they exist like if you thought they 71 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: lost their power and they just were completely superior. I 72 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 2: think that's what happened, like in Columbia, Like Okay, they 73 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 2: didn't have popular school war anymore, but that doesn't mean 74 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: that they weren't people as powerful as him or with 75 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: that kind of you know, controlling power, like in place 76 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 2: you know where maybe it was a lot more people, 77 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: but they were still there everything. When they're like hiding 78 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 2: in the shadows, it's kind of scary for me, you know, 79 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 2: to think that us. It's kind of you're that sense 80 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 2: of security, all sense of security, you think like, Okay, 81 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 2: they're gone. 82 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: For me, I'm the same person like they're not gone. 83 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: I know they're not gonna. I know they're there. 84 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 2: At that point, there's one thing I need for sure, 85 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: that the Mexican government was gonna be like, you know, America, 86 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 2: you know, USA, do whatever you want to catch this 87 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: guy like Retir. And from a business perspective, me being 88 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 2: in the drug business and me still have been down 89 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: there at that time, I would have been like, yeah, 90 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: Li's set him up because he's causing too much shrug, 91 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: Like the whole this whole drug business doesn't revolve around 92 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 2: one person. It's not all about Chop or all about 93 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: my there's it's a big, you know, community of people 94 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: that it takes to keep this going. And and he 95 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: was just would be a person that was just creating 96 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: too many problems. 97 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 3: Do you get the impression right that the way it's 98 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 3: publicized is if Chapa is the. 99 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 6: God and that controls everything. 100 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: I mean, he's a major figure, you know, but there's 101 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: a lot of people in this business. But you know, 102 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: like another thing that where I feel like like my 103 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: brother and I like knowing him in a different level 104 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 2: and not just like you know, the more personal level 105 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: that I've seen him being like, I've seen his flaws, 106 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 2: you know, I've seen things that I disagree with, the 107 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: things I didn't like, and like to imagine again that 108 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: people died every time they were chasing him around. You know, 109 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 2: he left ran away and people were left there to 110 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: fight from and die, you know. 111 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: And then the thing like, you know, many. 112 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: People during those six months he was free, how I mean, 113 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: people probably lost their lives protecting him while he's invading 114 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 2: law enforcement. 115 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: Then he gets. 116 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 3: Caught on January eighth, twenty sixteen, tipped off in parts 117 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: after a large order of Tacos Mexican naval marines surrounded 118 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 3: a house in Los Mitos, on the coast of Sineloa. 119 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 5: They've been scoping out the house for a while. 120 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 3: Phone interceptions suggested someone high up in the cartel was coming. 121 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 3: In the early hours of the morning, a huge gunfight 122 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 3: broke out as the marines entered the house. Five of 123 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: el proposed men were killed in the gunfight, as well 124 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 3: as one marine. When they finally entered the house, El 125 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: Chapo had once again vanished. He had two tunnels built 126 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 3: into the house, one a decoy tunnel under the fridge 127 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 3: designed to confuse officials, the other behind a mirror. 128 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 5: This was the one he fled through. 129 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 3: It was almost the same length as the tunnel he 130 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 3: escaped from prison. In The tunnel behind the mirror led 131 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 3: to a street right near a walmart. El Chapo was 132 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 3: with his most ruthless assassin, Ivancholo, was simply Elchollo. The 133 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 3: two of them stole a taxi at gunpoint and sped away. 134 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 3: The cab driver flagged down another cabby to radio that 135 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: he'd been carjacked. The Mexican authorities were listening. El Chapo 136 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 3: and Elchollo decided to ditch the car to avoid capture. 137 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 3: At the next traffic light, they approached a red Ford 138 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: focus inside an elderly woman, her daughter, and five year 139 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 3: old grandson. Achollo pulled out his weapon and forced them 140 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: out of the car, but not before giving the woman 141 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 3: her purse. He and Chappo got in, but by that 142 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 3: time the authorities had caught up in a literal Mexican standoff. 143 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 5: El Chapo told the police that they would all die. 144 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 3: The cartel was readying a small army of forty assassins 145 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 3: to rescue him. The police took Al Chapo to a 146 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 3: local motel, the Hotel d'Eu, to wait for backup. The 147 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 3: Hotel duh is not just any old motel. It's a 148 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 3: sex motel which could be rented at the cost of 149 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: three hundred paysos sixteen US dollars for six hours. There's 150 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: a famous photo online that you can look at of 151 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 3: a very filthy El Chapo sitting handcuffed on beige satin 152 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 3: sheets in room fifty one. El Chapo desperately tried to 153 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 3: bribe the police to let him go, but it was 154 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 3: too late. Back up arrived and he was taken by 155 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: helicopter to Mexico City President Nieto tweeted, mission accomplished. 156 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 5: We got him. 157 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: He gets re arrested January eighth or whatever. 158 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: And yet like within a week, the governments at my 159 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 2: prison facility and I'm signing the extradition papers. 160 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: Capital was. 161 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: That was a real like like shocking, you know, moment 162 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 2: to be signing those papers. 163 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:41,719 Speaker 1: You know, we hear like. 164 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 2: We hear a bar capone and you have those bad 165 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 2: guys like pom Pobscawachapo was. 166 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: It was like that moment you know in history. 167 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 2: That I never thought I would be a part of 168 00:10:59,360 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: the call. 169 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 3: That heat recorded of al Chappo was the key piece 170 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 3: of evidence that the US government was using to convict 171 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 3: l Chapo. So Pete had to be the one to 172 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 3: sign the extradition papers. 173 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 8: For certain people in that case, like Chapo was byd 174 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 8: Once they're arrested, they they put a package together, you 175 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 8: know together. You know, the American government would requests or 176 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 8: formally requests extradition of a of a person, and the 177 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 8: Office of External Affairs will handle most of that process. 178 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 8: So you submit certain papers like evidence that they. 179 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 9: Have and and sometimes they want to know, they want 180 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 9: to know something, they want to ask a couple of 181 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 9: questions about you know, you're basically your testimony, right, you know, 182 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 9: just I guess, just to do their due diligence, and 183 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 9: before they extradized someone that that you know, they have 184 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 9: enough sufficient evidence, you know, to request them. 185 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 3: For the US to seek the extradition of someone from abroad, 186 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 3: they have to put in a formal request supported by 187 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: sufficient and certified evidence that a crime has been committed. 188 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 3: So when did you find out that you've got to 189 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 3: stand up and testify against him? 190 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 2: He went to Torown November twenty eighteen. It was just 191 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: right before exactly a year to the date, like like 192 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: November twenty seventeen. They came to see me in just 193 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: as a kind of a pre interview of how I 194 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: felt about testifying and was I going to be able 195 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: to be a good witness. 196 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: So they come to see you as in the prison 197 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 3: and then yes, you then like, how's it work? 198 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, they comes to my attorney was present, the Chicago officers, president, 199 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: a prosecutor, Agentine, and here comes a team to the 200 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,359 Speaker 2: New York team. 201 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: There's like eight of 'em, eight prosecutors. 202 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 6: Why is it in like a special read more? 203 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's actually our visiting room sort our 204 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 2: visit room. 205 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: They come in. 206 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: And and you walk into the hun there's like all 207 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 2: these people there and you're just like, it's so awkward. 208 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: And introduce themselves and can't tell you what they're there for. 209 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 2: I just just wanna go over some of the things 210 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,599 Speaker 2: about my case and ask your questions, you know, like 211 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: random questions, like I tell you, I'll never forget that. 212 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: She asks me, so, how many languages do you speak? 213 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: I would say I'm fluent in English, Spanish, and twin. 214 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 2: The prosecutor look at me, like, what do you mean. 215 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, my brother and I we have a 216 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: special way to communicate. 217 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: With each other. 218 00:13:59,800 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 10: Right. 219 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 3: That was US attorney Andrea Goldborg asking Pete what languages 220 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 3: he speaks, English, Spanish and twin. If you remember, back 221 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: in episode four, Jay talked about having to relearn how 222 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: to communicate after being separated for the first time from 223 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 3: his identical twin brother Pete. Twin talk is actually not uncommon. 224 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 3: It's called cryptophasia, a form of autonomous language, and happens 225 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 3: in up to forty percent of all twins. While the 226 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 3: siblings caldn't understand each other, just fine, no one else 227 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 3: will have any idea what they're talking about. In the 228 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 3: prison visiting room, Pete was surrounded by the team of 229 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 3: attorneys the government had assembled for the El Chapo case. 230 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 3: Pete worked closely with assistant US attorneys Andrew Goldbarg and 231 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 3: Adam Fels, both known and celebrator for taking down some 232 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 3: of the world's most renowned drug lords and terrorists, including 233 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 3: Colombian kingpins Fan Carlos Ramirez and Al Loco. 234 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 2: I was fortunate, you know, to have been chosen to 235 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: work with Adam Fellas. 236 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, all my respect. 237 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 2: He was like super intelligent, you know, it's so made 238 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: me feel comfortable, you know, patient with me. 239 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: He understood my situation. He was like the. 240 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 2: Prosecutor was in charge of like my peppery mean, he 241 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: was gonna be the one question in me talent to 242 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: people like you could touch and talking to him out 243 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: They're like they're like they sent the best m h. 244 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 3: He was the one on the recording of the phone 245 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 3: call with Chapo, so he was the only one who 246 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 3: would need to testify. He spent a year prepping for 247 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 3: the trial, primarily with Adam Fels. Each month, the team 248 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: would stop by and go over the details of the 249 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 3: case and what Pete was going to say. They did 250 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: mock trials and did as much as they could to 251 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: prepare Pete for potential cross examination from el Chapo's attorneys. Finally, 252 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 3: as Christmas of twenty eighteen approached, Pete had to make 253 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 3: his way across the country to el Chapo's trial in 254 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 3: New York. 255 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: The last time I seen the prosecutors in my prison, 256 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: they're like, Okay, next time I'll see you will be 257 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: you know, New York. That's nerve working to feel that 258 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: the reality of it against kind of step in and 259 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: I'm like constantly anxious, like it brought so much like 260 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: stressed me and it shouldn't have, but he did. I 261 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: can't sleep, I can't I think, I can't not hungry, 262 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 2: I'm not you know, ain't about it every day. 263 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 3: Like what do you think drove that overwhelming feeling? Do 264 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 3: you think it was the anticipation and anxiety, the fear. 265 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 2: Like everything and everything all into one, like just everything 266 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: like like those feelings and like of course like cleaning 267 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 2: with my own emotions, like thinking about even my dad, 268 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 2: like like this is the biggest form of mentioning you 269 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: could do. 270 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 6: You know, did his words come in your hat. 271 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 2: Of course, a lot of people cooperate, and you know, 272 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: they never see a court room, you know, and I 273 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 2: thought that was going to be the case. And it 274 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 2: was so nervous, and I remember them finally kind of 275 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 2: telling me, like get ready that morning. 276 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: It's like seven in the morning. They get ready. 277 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 6: I told you this, did they come and. 278 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: The staff comes and told you, like get. 279 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: Ready, and the phones are off and they do, you know, 280 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: certain things for security, so they don't come to like ninth. 281 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 2: Those hours were like. 282 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,479 Speaker 6: I gotta come out torture. What were you doing like pasting? 283 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, Patian, just you know, and they come up and 284 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 2: pull it through bees and they shackle you and they 285 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 2: put you in the back of a armored vehicle with 286 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: the windows covered, and they always pick like a nearby 287 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 2: like airfield, so you know, on the road for a 288 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: long period of time. And then they pull you up 289 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: to the private jet and there's more agents that are 290 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 2: waiting for your marshals, marshall agents trying in charge of 291 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 2: your protection, and we cram up, We all cramb up 292 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 2: into the little chat and it was the most uncomfortable 293 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 2: five and anine a half hours, like like sitting there 294 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 2: like unable like to stretch my fear anything, and being 295 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 2: sick to my stomach, you know, like nervous just thinking 296 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 2: about what's to come, thinking about my family, make so 297 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: many emotions. 298 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 6: Were you like shoulders to shoulder with. 299 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 2: The yeah with that end, and you know, one in 300 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: front of me is his feet offstairs down in front 301 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 2: of me. I can't even you know, sit comfortable, and 302 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,719 Speaker 2: I'm shackled, so it makes it a lot more uncomfortable. 303 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: They usually give you, like, you know, some street clothes 304 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 2: like to travel because you know, the pilot doesn't know 305 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: who you are. You know, no one knows who you are. 306 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 2: And I'm just like. 307 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: In some regular sweats. 308 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 2: There's this long ride and we find to somewhere like 309 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 2: Connecticut or something, and then we have a long riding 310 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: traffic and I'm shackled by listen like I'm already tired 311 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 2: of sitting and my back hurts, and I'm anxious and 312 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: I'm worried, and I'm sick to my stomach, and I 313 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 2: have an ate and they're playing like the just awful 314 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 2: classic music. I can't look out the window, you know, 315 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 2: and it's making it's felt like torture, like I should 316 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 2: have got time off. Just just sitting in the back 317 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 2: of that try, I felt like I told him, I said, 318 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: I need to tell you guys something. 319 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: I said. The rider took what the kidnappers was better 320 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: than this. They just left on me. It just you know, 321 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: I think the stress was already kind of built up. 322 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 6: How many do you reckon we're in that convoy in that. 323 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,199 Speaker 2: Kind of probably twelve at least martials And then you 324 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 2: get there, I'm like, where are they going to put me? 325 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 2: And then, you know, every prisoner understands what it is 326 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: to be transferred from prison to prison into another unit 327 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: or whatever. 328 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: You're like, you're going straight to the whole, you know. 329 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: So I thought about that, You're going to share to 330 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: the whole? 331 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 6: And is that what happened every time then? Anywhere? 332 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? Most of the time. Yeah. 333 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 5: So there are a. 334 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 3: Few different reasons you might end up in solitary confinements, 335 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 3: or as Pete refers to. 336 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 5: It as the shoe or the hole. 337 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 3: Disciplinary reasons is just one of them. Often prisoners are 338 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 3: temporarily put in solitary confinement for administrative reasons, for protection, 339 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 3: or while being transferred. 340 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 5: That's why Pete ended up in solitary a lot. 341 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 3: Pete was taken to MCC New York, the same prison 342 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 3: Jay was taken to when the twins were first separated 343 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 3: because of the billboards. If you remember, he described it 344 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 3: as the worst place and told us that prisoners prepared 345 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 3: the food, adding a couple of dead roachors for flavor. 346 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 3: It's where Jeffrey Epstein was held, and as Pete arrived, 347 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 3: it also happened to be where El Chapo was being held. 348 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: So we going on. 349 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 2: They put in I'm not sure where I'm at, but 350 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 2: they're walking on these long hallways and it's dirty and ugly, 351 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: and they come into the receiving area of the MCC. 352 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 2: I remember the Marshall came up to the glass window 353 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: of MCC New York here and he's like bangs like 354 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: on the windows. They have like a sliding bulletproof plast 355 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 2: store and it's like almost like a drive through kind 356 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: like that can help you. 357 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: And then. 358 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: There's a woman there, a short like Latin like woman 359 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: Puerto Rican or something, and she purses his ass out 360 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: like what the fuck do you want? What the fuck 361 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 2: give me your ID like talk something like that. I'm like, 362 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 2: I'm in New York. That's for sure, you know what 363 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 2: I'm saying. Like I'm in New York and they pull 364 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: you in and you get that, you know, the mcc uniform. 365 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 2: Mcc uniform just like blue guarb, like no pants, pull shirt, 366 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 2: and there's a box with like prison clothes, you know, 367 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: like when you go out, they'll put your stuff in 368 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 2: a box and you got to get fresh clothes in 369 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 2: fresh clothes, you know, press clothed you leave out and 370 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 2: they'll clothes you come in. You can't take what they'll 371 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: give you those he left behind, you know, for security reasons. 372 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: They want to you know, which closer or whatever. And 373 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 2: they're like a cubicles like like like locker cuba open. 374 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: Just open a little square shelving and things. 375 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 6: Like that and like yeah, kind of square shovels against 376 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 6: the wall. 377 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 2: And I'm like, we'll flow chop one. They're like, that's 378 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 2: his clothes right there. And I was like that felt 379 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 2: weird to see if because they put mine right next 380 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 2: to him, you know, like we're probably the same size. 381 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 6: Oh my god, that must have felt so strange. 382 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: That was weird, Like you have to know, like, man, 383 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: we're in the same building. I think that's weird. 384 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 6: Did it feel kind of more reopen, you like. 385 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 2: But then his clothes, Yeah, I mean, of course it 386 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: didn't feel like not only they're his clothes, that means 387 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 2: that he's right in the same building with me. 388 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: It brings back that little anxiety a little bit. 389 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: It's such a you know things feeling that overcomes you, 390 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 2: that you feel you feel over and over and over. 391 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 2: They walked me down, they moved me through the building, 392 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 2: and I kind of get the feeling like I'm going 393 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: to the the special unit in MCAC, like the. 394 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: Winsick unit, and that at least it was a little 395 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: bit better than the shoe. 396 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 2: And you know, there's a couple of people that I 397 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 2: already knew that was in another prison was before, and 398 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 2: a couple of people that knew my brother. It makes 399 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 2: it less kind of like awkward, you know. And they 400 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 2: put you in the CEW and they put me with 401 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 2: uself with someone else familiarly with. Yeah, so someone I 402 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 2: knew from prison. Yeah, he was a he was a 403 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: terrorist and he was accused of terrorism then and he 404 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: was going to get sentenced. 405 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 3: Turns out, for the first time, Pete didn't end up 406 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 3: in solitary as part of his transfer. Instead, he ended 407 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 3: up cell mates with a terrorist, Abdul Rahman Albana. Sawi 408 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 3: pled guilty to planning a major terrorist attack on New 409 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 3: York City. He said he aspired to create the next 410 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 3: nine to eleven by bombing Times Square, the New York 411 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 3: City subway system, and shooting people at concerts. He was 412 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,719 Speaker 3: sentenced to forty years in prison. The day Pete went 413 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 3: to testify against al Chapo. 414 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: That very morning, I have a legal visit at MCC 415 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 2: and my attorney's there and the prosecutors are there and 416 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 2: we're kind of going through everything again. Yeah, I hear 417 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 2: him talking then. For that was like the last time 418 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: I wasn't get to see my attorney because they're going 419 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 2: to move me to like their safe house where I 420 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 2: was going to continue that the de briefing, you know, 421 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 2: and the prep just very stressful. That Saturday, they come 422 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: and they get me ready and they the Marshalls like 423 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 2: take me to the safe house where I'm meeting the 424 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 2: prosecutors and the agents and we're doing the prepping, going 425 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 2: over stuff, and I remember like one of those moments. 426 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: Like we touched you know a lot of them, like 427 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: little moments. 428 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: That really like you know, the hurt to talk about 429 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 2: stuff of them, my dad, stuff of them, my brother, 430 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: And were they asking you those things? Yeah, they're like, look, man, 431 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 2: this conversation come up about your dad. Yeah, like they 432 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 2: might come up, like we we just got to walk 433 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 2: you through it because they're gonna come up there. 434 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: Like if I was them, I could use this, you know. 435 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 3: And so they were trying to cover every single thing 436 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 3: that might come up and try and make sure you preparetriol. 437 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: And they were good at that. 438 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 2: Like I like to teach that travel had great lawyers, 439 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 2: but I think they had the government had better ones. 440 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 2: I remember like that Sunday. It was like like Pete, 441 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: the next time I see, it's gonna be in the courtroom. 442 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: And I was like, no, no way, Like I don't 443 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 2: think I can't do this, Like you got this thing 444 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 2: for me, Like I can't do this. 445 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: I don't think I can help you. And then like 446 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: you got it. 447 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 2: Man, you're gonna do. You're gonna be good, just going in, 448 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 2: just tell the truth and you're gonna be fine. And 449 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 2: the things you you did, you didn't And they're embarrassing 450 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 2: to me though, you know they are. 451 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: I didn't sleep Someday night. It was rough. 452 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 2: And it was rough, and I thought I was gonna 453 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 2: be able to wear some simple clothes. You don't get 454 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 2: to do that. You're just wearing your regular prison and 455 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 2: that whatever they give you, that's what you're wearing. 456 00:27:59,240 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 6: It's a call. 457 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you going there with some prison guards that got 458 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 2: like rips in them, and that's what I wore, whatever 459 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 2: they give it, you know. And I'm sick, like really sick, 460 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: like I'm like mentally like just not feeling like myself. 461 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: You know. 462 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 2: It sucks to be in a situation like that. I 463 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 2: remember them coming and get me. I was so like 464 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 2: stressed out, man, I felt my knees felt weak, and. 465 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 6: What did your buddies feel like? 466 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: Weak and tense and not healthy like. 467 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 2: I remember feeling like that when I first got kidnapped, 468 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: like where my knees got weak and I wanted to run. 469 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: I don't know where to run where, but I wanted 470 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 2: to run somewhere and it just felt like that upset 471 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: stomach like just. 472 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: And they come and. 473 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: They come get me in there takes me back out 474 00:28:53,640 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 2: the way I came in, and that there's a box 475 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 2: with travels clothes. 476 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: Again, I see it. I know he's gonna be transported to. 477 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: I remember going up to the Brooklyn Courthouse and they 478 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 2: had tons of marshalls that day. It's Monday morning, tons 479 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 2: of marshals, like everywhere you live. It's cold out too. 480 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: I don't have jack and cold. I'll see you're just 481 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 2: in your prison. Yeah, it's just in its cold in 482 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 2: New York in December. You know, I'm probably colding on 483 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 2: my own already because I'm stressed out and my nerves 484 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 2: are kicking it. 485 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: And they take me up to like the fourth floor. 486 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: We're going like up the backstairs, and I remember aluminum 487 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 2: like rating super playing in the house, you know, and 488 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 2: whenever they were walking into a people that are like 489 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 2: the marshal will come and blocked us all the doors, 490 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 2: say everybody stop normal and while they walk you by, 491 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 2: and you know, we're using it the doors, the back staircase, 492 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: you know, on avoiding the elevators. I could look out 493 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 2: those windows and see like the street of that familiar 494 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: like picture where you were seeing the news, but instead 495 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 2: of you looking at the courthouse, I'm you know, I 496 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 2: was looking at them. And they take me to that 497 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 2: where they have jury rooms really nice the other chairs 498 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 2: and they sit you down and you and your twelve 499 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 2: agents there they're protecting. And the way before we left 500 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 2: the prison though, they they grabbed me a sacked lunch 501 00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 2: and they gave it to me. 502 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: Here be hungry. 503 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 2: Four pieces of bread and two pieces of cheese, fell 504 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 2: the fruit, the milk. 505 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: Sitting there, maybe hours went by, like waiting. 506 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 2: I remember on eleven thirty he comes, you know, the prosecutors, 507 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 2: and they're like, we're gonna bring you in. You ready, No, 508 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 2: I'm not ready, No way, I'm not ready. I don't 509 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 2: want it to You can be fine, okayment don't. I 510 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: remember seeing at him Fellas and them and seeing on 511 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 2: them Fellas, and. 512 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: He just looked like different. You know, a shower, does 513 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: you good? 514 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 2: I wanted to tell him because he just looked like 515 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 2: a different person, you know, well, like Fresherman smart. 516 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 517 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 2: They were calling him the candidate, so he had that 518 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 2: kind of demeanor where he could I could see him 519 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 2: be a politician. Got me admiring his nice suit too. 520 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 2: He's like, we're gonna come get you and you're gonna 521 00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 2: be fine. Okay, I've seen a bit. 522 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: Oh my, did I. 523 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 2: Just feel so sick after that? I was just I mean, 524 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 2: just rethinking about it. I was just sitting there, you know, 525 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 2: under leather, reclining, just rocking back and forth, standing up 526 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 2: and walking, and the marshals in sensitive like sit down here, 527 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: making me nervous, like you're nervous. 528 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: Like really, And. 529 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 2: A while later they're like, okay, come on, let's go. 530 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 2: You ready, guys going? So then everyone gets up, like 531 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: let's go. We're going out to the court. 532 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:36,959 Speaker 1: They go on. 533 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 2: They closed to make sure nobody's coming out any elevators 534 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: or doors. Here we go back up the staircase and 535 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 2: we're going up you know, six floors I believe, like 536 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: to the tenth floor where the court was happening. 537 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: And we're on our way up and we make it 538 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: to like floor number eight. No go back, go back, 539 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: go back, Yeah, go back, go back, go back, go back. 540 00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: Everyone go back. 541 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 2: Get it? 542 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: They said, wait, they had to wait. 543 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 2: And here I go back, sitting in the courting in 544 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 2: that jury room again. I pissed a thousand times. I think, 545 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 2: you know, just none stopped going to bad job you NEOs. 546 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 2: In my mind, I'm going just to prayer, been saying 547 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 2: to praying, like just you know, it's just talking to 548 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 2: God on my own, just ask him to be with 549 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: me and them. Fellas comes back that, look, we got 550 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 2: a little backed up, but we're working on it. We're 551 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 2: gonna make sure we we're trying to get you into Okay. 552 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 10: He goes like an hour and a half goals by it. 553 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 10: It's like near four o'clock. I've been sitting in this 554 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 10: room stressed out since nine in the morning. Another hour ago. 555 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 2: Somebody nothing like five thirty or something, six o'clock almost, 556 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: and he comes back and says, pee, looking man, I'm sorry, yeah, 557 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 2: we're yeah, we're not the court during them for tomorrow. 558 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 2: I was like, what I just sat here in this 559 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 2: torturing myself all day and here we go again, back 560 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 2: to the prison. Could I drive back to the MTC? 561 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 6: What was that night? 562 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: Like? 563 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't handle that no more so. 564 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,760 Speaker 2: What I did is they give you like an allergy 565 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 2: medication and you take one and that makes you like sleepy. 566 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 1: But I prayed and I slept. I will up here 567 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: a lot better that to not ready to do it, 568 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: but better. 569 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,919 Speaker 2: And we go through the same process, get my back, lunch, 570 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 2: get my torn prison guards, and we go back and 571 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 2: I sit again in the same room. There's way anxious again. 572 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 2: But then I'm seeing this time is for real and 573 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 2: hours go back again. I don't know, maybe eleven o'clock 574 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: or so, they come into like okay, let's go, it's time, 575 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 2: and here we go again. Same a team go close, door, 576 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 2: moving out there, you know, and they stop. 577 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: Again like they'll go back. I'm like, what you're driving 578 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: me bananas? Like go back, go back, go back. Oh 579 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: oh my god. 580 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: I was like, what the hell are they doing? 581 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: I would say, like around one o'clock or so when 582 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: they come again. 583 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 6: What did you feel like at that point? 584 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 2: I right, just like I felt like just now myself, 585 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 2: like nigga, I'm like, I've been living with the anxieties 586 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 2: for since I flew into this place, you know, and 587 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 2: it's been uncomfortable and kind of horrific to be in 588 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 2: this moment, but you got to live through it for 589 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 2: you don't understand what I'm saying. If I could explain it, 590 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 2: maybe like receiving your master's or your PhD or college 591 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 2: green walking on State and things so good with the 592 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 2: exact opposite is what I kind of could feel like, 593 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 2: and here we go again this and I walked in 594 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 2: the last time, I remember feeling like, are we really 595 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: going but as we're going up the stairs, you know 596 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 2: it's bright. It's sunny out, super sunny that day. You 597 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 2: know it's cold, so but super soon the hallway though, 598 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 2: the stair kise is cold. I'm freezing, like it's freezing. 599 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 2: And this time I make it like past the ninth floor, 600 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh shit, like this is real. Well, I 601 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 2: could feel like like breathing came like a little bit 602 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 2: short and deeper, you know, And they open the door 603 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 2: and the path towards the courtroom is narrow, I kind 604 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 2: of like narrow, and it's so clean. It's like white 605 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 2: and bright, like the way you think about you open 606 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 2: your eyes and you're seeing heaving, Like that's how bright 607 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,280 Speaker 2: it is. Cause the whole floor is surrounded by windows 608 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 2: and the windows are open, you know, no shading. The 609 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 2: sun is shining that day, and there's marshals lined up 610 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 2: all around the all down the hallway like like they're 611 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 2: just standing there. I remember walking on the path and 612 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 2: they're kind of walking me kind of fast, and you're 613 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 2: just kind of like just walking like I have no custom, 614 00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 2: just you know, walking through this narrow hallway. And then 615 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 2: I could see the courtroom door like through the lot 616 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 2: and I remember it feeling like horrible taking that first 617 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 2: step into the court room and looking but not really looking, 618 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 2: you know, and they kind of like guide me right 619 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,479 Speaker 2: into the witness seat which is off of the laft 620 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 2: like that, and they just like sit down and and 621 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,879 Speaker 2: I kind of sit down, thatch. And I haven't even 622 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 2: really got you know, looked up to get a glimpse 623 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 2: of the court room yet, but I can. I know 624 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 2: there's tons of people in the courtroom still. And I 625 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,720 Speaker 2: remember the pro the marshall leaned over and he whispered 626 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 2: to me like just remember, you know. I just remember, 627 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 2: he ain't shit here, he can't do nothing here. And 628 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 2: then I sit down and I look up and it's 629 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 2: just like people, like just everyone just walking around. I 630 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 2: could see the the benches where people said to view 631 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 2: the case. I could see him, and I could see 632 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 2: the cameras everywhere, and I hear them saying. I hear 633 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 2: them talk to something about like the overflow area. Now 634 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 2: I'm aware that there's more people in the view, like 635 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 2: viewing it from outside the courtrooma and I could see 636 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 2: different people and right away I could see, like, you know, 637 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 2: a woman off the back of undem and she like looking, 638 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 2: you know, cause it's far. It feels like it's a 639 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 2: block away, like from the witness seat to the door 640 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 2: to the to their main natrance. It seems like a long. 641 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: In a way. I could see it. And then she 642 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 1: grabs her binoculars. I'm like, the fuck. 643 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 2: I see h you know, someone in the suit kind 644 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 2: of looking at me and I he's walking towards and 645 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 2: I could see him and he's smiling. He comes towards 646 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 2: and he's like, he just gives me their thumbs up, 647 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 2: and I see it's my brother's attorney, and I know 648 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 2: what he's saying to just because I've dealt with it. 649 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,839 Speaker 1: I've dealt with people like it so much. 650 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 2: In that situation, I could see him telling me, like, 651 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 2: you look just like your brother, you know from his demeanor, 652 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 2: like you look just like your brother, because I never 653 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 2: met him personally. With my know he gives me a 654 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 2: done up and you know he's representing. 655 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 3: Chapel Jay's attorney, Jeffrey Litman, had previously defended wait for it, 656 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,960 Speaker 3: John Gotti Junior, the son of the John Gotti who 657 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 3: sam Me the Bull cooperated against. Yes, the same Sami 658 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 3: the Bull who was Pete sellmate of course, Sammy the 659 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 3: Bulls cooperation against John Gotti was what led to Jay's 660 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 3: epiphany that he too could cooperate. Jeffrey Littman is a 661 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 3: top defense lawyer, and after working for John Gotti Junior 662 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 3: and Jay Flores, he ended up defending alf Chappo. 663 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 6: How did you make that that made you feel like that? 664 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 6: Your brothers? 665 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 3: It's a he ended up representing our chape that you're 666 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 3: stood up against. Were you worried that he could use 667 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 3: stuff that he knew about you against you? It seems strange, 668 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 3: right that he that he could represent day and then 669 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 3: he can go and represent the person that you cooperated against. 670 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,800 Speaker 6: It just seems to be weird. 671 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: I can't say that. 672 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 2: I don't think that for mister Ligman that he didn't 673 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 2: get to be a successful lawyer by doing stuff like that. 674 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: I don't think that even Chapel would be worth him 675 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: doing it. 676 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 2: I think his reputation is more important, you know, because 677 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 2: if I can't trust some long contrust that you know, 678 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 2: I think that he has to be there's gotta be 679 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 2: some form of professionalism in that world. And at the 680 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 2: same time, everything he knows my prosecutors now because they 681 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 2: acted as an attorney for my brother and I as well. 682 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 2: But still it is a little weird because you know 683 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 2: it's like my you know, you know my wife. You know, 684 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 2: it's certaintien. He gets me the tongues up. And then 685 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 2: I see in Jai Goberg and everyone's like dressing the 686 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 2: nine's like I don't even recognize no more. Everyone looks 687 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 2: different to me, like in their best clothes. And I'm 688 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 2: looking around. I'm nervous. I'm like I can't find my 689 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 2: come to a spot. I'm cold, and my mouth is 690 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 2: so dry. I'm drinking like they have like small waters 691 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 2: like right off to my within my reach. I'm like 692 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 2: just drinking the water. They're not helping me. And the 693 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 2: martial like you wanna breast mean or something you want 694 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 2: like he see it, Like I said, my moth so dry, 695 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 2: and it's just nothing was helping me. My mouth was 696 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 2: I've never been experience that kind of like drying off 697 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 2: in my in my life. And I'm just like, oh, 698 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 2: what's gonna happen? And I could see like the defense 699 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 2: table off to the left and the court rooms nothing 700 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:07,880 Speaker 2: like you see on TV. The courtrooms set up a 701 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 2: little different. Word you do have the aisles with the 702 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,240 Speaker 2: benches for the audience for the people, right. 703 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,719 Speaker 1: Okay, and the little r you know, the little door. 704 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 2: But there's just two beautiful long tables, like a couple 705 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 2: of long tables like in the front, and then behind, 706 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 2: you know, behind it another long tables are one of 707 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,640 Speaker 2: 'em for the defense defense table, and the other one's 708 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 2: a government's tables. Beautiful leather chairs and you know, and 709 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 2: beautiful wood everywhere, and. 710 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: I could see like the judge's. 711 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 2: Seat, and you know, I have to kind of like 712 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 2: look up a little bit, and the court reporters right 713 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 2: sitting right in front of me. 714 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: And s slowly slowly. 715 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 2: I see the people like coming into the court room, 716 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 2: more of the prosecutors more, you know, I see my 717 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 2: Boxcutity and just waves at me from padway, and he 718 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 2: seems distant. You know. There's such a big court room 719 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,239 Speaker 2: and the people are staring, you know, pondering, and I'm like, 720 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 2: at this point, like my nerves are the worst they've 721 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 2: ever been, and the people are finding it and fighting 722 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 2: in and and here it comes the jurors and they 723 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,239 Speaker 2: walk in and there right away, as soon as they 724 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 2: walk in there they're looking at the witness. See and 725 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 2: then downstairs back thing. They they just they don't stop 726 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,320 Speaker 2: staring at you. And they're not that far away from me, 727 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 2: but they just wouldn't stop staying at you. They're just 728 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 2: staring at you like up and down. Now I'm looking 729 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 2: at them like I that's one of the worst things, 730 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 2: that they're looking at you like you're a zoo animal. 731 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,360 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of them. Thinking I thought I 732 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 2: was twelve. There's like twenty onemen. It seems I guess 733 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 2: he got the back of Jers or whatever and m 734 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 2: and I could see like that the fence tables starting 735 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,439 Speaker 2: to get a little more crowded, like people are coming 736 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 2: in and I see other people with knock clears in 737 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 2: the back. And I could see that they're sketch artists too, 738 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,000 Speaker 2: like they're they're they're drawing. 739 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:15,879 Speaker 1: I could see 'em sketching out. 740 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 2: And and as as I'm sitting there like nervously for 741 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 2: like maybe ten minutes, fifteen minutes, it felt like forever, 742 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 2: you know, I could like sit back on the table, 743 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 2: I could kind of look, I can lean forward and 744 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 2: I could like see around the the jurdges kind of like. 745 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 1: Podium can whatever you call it. 746 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 2: Uh, I could see that there's a door right opposite 747 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 2: of my door, and I see them kind of open 748 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 2: it and close it. And then I look and I 749 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 2: see that there's marshals there, and I'm like yeah, And 750 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 2: then I look and I see them bringing open the door. 751 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 2: Let's see and Drey don't letting chat one. 752 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,839 Speaker 3: Surviving l Chapo, The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug 753 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 3: Lord Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson 754 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,840 Speaker 3: and me Charlie Webster, Produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, 755 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 3: Assistant producer and research support. 756 00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 5: By Kasey Hurtz. 757 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 3: Edit and sound designed by Nico Kalella. Theme music and 758 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:44,320 Speaker 3: original score by Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis 759 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 3: fifty cent Jackson and Me Charlie Webster. Curtis fifty cent. 760 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 5: Jackson presents a Lionsgate Sound and. 761 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 3: G Unit audio production exclusively for iHeart Podcasts 762 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: Danger