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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Mark Kenyon, and this week on the show, we are

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Speaker 2: joined by David Kenyon, my father, to see what we

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Speaker 2: can learn from his experience raising a hunting and fishing fool.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 2: to you by First Light, and today we are continuing

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Speaker 2: our series on parenting and parenting outdoor kids, helping bring

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Speaker 2: our children into the hunting and fishing and outdoor world,

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Speaker 2: helping to foster a love for wildlife and adventure and

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Speaker 2: you know, engaging with animals and fish and wild places,

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Speaker 2: all the good stuff that I know that if you're

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Speaker 2: listening to this show, you have come to love just

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Speaker 2: as much as I have. And as we discussed last

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Speaker 2: week when Tony and I kind of kicked off this topic,

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Speaker 2: there is there's no right answer to many of these questions.

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Speaker 2: There's there's so many shades of gray, there's so many

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Speaker 2: different perspectives. There's so many different ways of going about this,

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Speaker 2: you know, ultimate task of our lives. Really, I think

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Speaker 2: anyone who has become a parent knows and has felt

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Speaker 2: deep in your bones how it changes everything. And that

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Speaker 2: includes hunting. That includes your passion for white tailed deer,

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Speaker 2: fishing for trout, or whatever it is that you like

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Speaker 2: to do. But it's something we don't talk about a

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Speaker 2: whole lot. We love to talk about pinch points and

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Speaker 2: funnels and food plots and scouting and all that good stuff,

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Speaker 2: but then we just kind of assume that, you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll just know what to do when it comes to

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Speaker 2: taking our daughters their sons out in the woods. We'll

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Speaker 2: just figure it out as we go. When it comes

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Speaker 2: to teach them how to fish. Why don't we explore

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Speaker 2: this in more detail? Why don't we give this as

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Speaker 2: much attention as we do soil amendments and archery technique.

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Speaker 2: That's the that's the question I've been asking myself here recently,

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Speaker 2: and that's why we're doing this series. I think it

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Speaker 2: deserves some time, some thought, and some different perspectives, new ideas.

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Speaker 2: So when it comes to experts on this topic, you know,

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Speaker 2: there aren't really any true experts. There's just a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of people with some kind of experience. And when

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Speaker 2: it comes to people that have some kind of experience,

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Speaker 2: I know one person especially well that I have a

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Speaker 2: very clear understanding, at least a personal understanding of what

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Speaker 2: they did and the results it led to. And of

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Speaker 2: course I'm talking about my own dad, and I know

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Speaker 2: the results because the results are me. You are listening

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Speaker 2: to me. You have found this podcast, This podcast is

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Speaker 2: here and now and in the world, and the host

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Speaker 2: you're listening to love's deer and fishing and wildlife and

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Speaker 2: all sorts of crazy things like that. It's all because

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Speaker 2: of him, this guy, David Kenyon. He mentored me, taught me,

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Speaker 2: guided me into the outdoors, helped me understand how to

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Speaker 2: engage in the natural world, come to love it, come

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Speaker 2: to appreciate it, become capable within it, and so many

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Speaker 2: other things. And so my thought today was who better

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Speaker 2: to kind of dive into this with than someone who

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Speaker 2: I grew up with doing this very thing, And see

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Speaker 2: if I can learn something from him right now in

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Speaker 2: a different kind of way than I did when I

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Speaker 2: was actually a child following him along. But what can

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Speaker 2: I learn now? Looking back on it all and kind

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Speaker 2: of explicitly poking holes and shining a light on different

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Speaker 2: sides of it and zooming in with a microscope and

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Speaker 2: kind of picking apart what worked, what didn't work, what

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Speaker 2: worked for me, what worked for him? What do I remember?

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Speaker 2: What does he remember? And how did all of this

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Speaker 2: lead to who I am?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 2: This is a shared point of context. Right when you

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Speaker 2: listen to other folks talking about hunting and talking about

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Speaker 2: their kids, we don't really know what they're talking about, right.

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Speaker 2: We hear the words they're saying, but we can't actually

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Speaker 2: get a look at the results of what they're telling.

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Speaker 3: You to do.

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Speaker 2: In this case, it's unique. When you hear my dad

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Speaker 2: share his thoughts and ideas and perspectives, you all pretty

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Speaker 2: well know what came from it. So I think this

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Speaker 2: gives us an interesting opportunity to, you know, hear what

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Speaker 2: he has to say, and then look at me and

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Speaker 2: what I'm doing. Whether you know, you might hear what

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Speaker 2: my dad has to say and they're like, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: that's why Mark's so messed up, or that's why Mark's

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Speaker 2: so annoying, or that's why Mark is whatever, or you

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Speaker 2: might say, man, okay, Mark loves hunting and fishing and

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Speaker 2: this thing his dad did.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I get it now. I can see how that led

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Speaker 2: to Mark having this love. Maybe I can try something

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Speaker 2: like that too. So I don't know. Maybe we're gonna

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Speaker 2: have ideas like that, maybe we'll have the opposite. I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure where this is gonna go, but I do

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Speaker 2: know that my dad, David Kenyon, is someone who approaches

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Speaker 2: things with a lot of thought, with a lot of care,

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Speaker 2: and with a life journey. I think that gives his

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Speaker 2: advice and his ideas a sense of weight. My dad

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Speaker 2: is someone who has push through a lot of things,

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Speaker 2: work through a lot of things, and always has been

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Speaker 2: able to find the light in it, has been able

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Speaker 2: to find the lesson in it, the wisdom that can

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Speaker 2: be gained from whatever it might be. And I think

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Speaker 2: that makes him a particularly helpful person to listen to

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Speaker 2: when it comes to parenting, because anyone out there who

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Speaker 2: is a parent knows that it's not always easy. It's

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Speaker 2: not always cut and dry, it's not always fun. It's

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Speaker 2: not always a straight and narrow path that you can

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Speaker 2: walk on easily. It is a journey, and my Dad's

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Speaker 2: been on that journey for many years now. I'm fortunate

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Speaker 2: that he's been guiding me down that path too, and

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Speaker 2: I'm appreciative of the fact that he's willing to hop

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Speaker 2: on here and take some tough questions from his son,

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Speaker 2: and I hope you all enjoy it as much as

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Speaker 2: I did. So, without further ado, let's dive into this

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Speaker 2: second episode of our parenting series with my very own father,

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Speaker 2: David Kenyon. Okay, now with me on the other side

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Speaker 2: of the internet is a special guest. More special, I

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Speaker 2: guess I'm biased here, but more special than most I

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Speaker 2: have on the show. We've got my father, the one

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Speaker 2: and only, David Kenyon. Thanks for doing this, Dad, Hey.

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Speaker 3: Glad to do it. Mark excited to be part of

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Speaker 3: the wire to Hunt team.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I've gotten great feedback from people on the past

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Speaker 2: episodes you've joined us, so you know we've got a

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Speaker 2: reputation to live up to. Now, Dad, we've done a

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Speaker 2: few of these over the years. I think we did.

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Speaker 2: I think the first one, if my memory serves me right,

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Speaker 2: it was you, me and Josh up at the cabin

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Speaker 2: and we talked kind of about the history up there

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Speaker 2: and our hunts and stuff, and then I think we

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Speaker 2: maybe did another show after you killed your Buck at

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Speaker 2: the Back forty. I think that was the next one

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Speaker 2: we did, and I of course enjoyed those. And I

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Speaker 2: think during one or one or both of those or

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Speaker 2: at some point I think I had asked you a

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Speaker 2: little bit about what I was like as a kid

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Speaker 2: and what it was like, you know, raising me a touch,

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Speaker 2: But I think that was like a snippet of our conversation.

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Speaker 2: But what I want to do today, if you're willing

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Speaker 2: to do this, is to expand on that dramatically, because,

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Speaker 2: as you know, we're doing this short series around parenting

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Speaker 2: and parenting kids that, you know, learn to love hunting

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Speaker 2: and fishing in the outdoors and the natural world and

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Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. And you know, when I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting here at my desk and thinking through, who do

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Speaker 2: I know that has done that? Well, I can't think

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Speaker 2: of anyone better than you. But that is because I am,

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Speaker 2: of course the product of that training and that parenting.

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Speaker 2: But here I am. I love hunting, I love fishing,

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Speaker 2: I love the natural world, and I'm obsessed with all

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Speaker 2: the above. So I would like to raise a kid

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Speaker 2: like me someday. So I suppose you are one of

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Speaker 2: the best people I know to teach me how to

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 3: Dad.

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Speaker 2: So that's the goal today. Are you up for the challenge?

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Speaker 3: I am, but I hope I don't let you in

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Speaker 3: your audience down.

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Speaker 2: Here's the next question. Then, I I know you very well,

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Speaker 2: and I know that you have uh you have dad

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Speaker 2: blinders sometimes like you wear you wear rose colored dad glasses.

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Speaker 2: By that, I mean you are you are so biased

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Speaker 2: in your in your appreciation of your son, which I appreciate.

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Speaker 2: But what I'm going to ask you to do here, Pops,

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Speaker 2: is to be as objective, be as objective, unbiased and

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Speaker 2: honest as possible as we talk about these things.

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Speaker 3: Do you really want me to be brutal? Yes?

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Speaker 2: So if you if if there's something you remember from

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Speaker 2: my childhood where I drove you really nuts and I

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Speaker 2: was a real a hole, you should say that. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you don't need to pretend like, well, see I might

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Speaker 2: I might cut you off somewhere down the line. Okay,

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Speaker 2: But that's what I want to do here. I want

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Speaker 2: to you know, as a kid with my dad, I

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Speaker 2: can look back on all of our experiences together and

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Speaker 2: try to glean insights from the things I experienced as

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Speaker 2: a kid, But now as a dad myself, I'm you know,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure you experienced this when you know I

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Speaker 2: was a kid, there wasn't like a handbook. There wasn't

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Speaker 2: anyone that gave you like, here are the rules, or

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Speaker 2: here's the playbook or hear are the step by step

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Speaker 2: directions for how to do this right? How to raise

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Speaker 2: a kid, how to introduce these things to them. So

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Speaker 2: it's kind of I don't know how many kids and

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Speaker 2: their parents get an opportunity to actually have like a

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Speaker 2: a thorough conversation about this and ask the questions explicitly

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Speaker 2: that maybe that you wonder about but you don't ever

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Speaker 2: talk about. So I've got a few of those for you.

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Speaker 3: All right, Well, shoot, man, and I guess to.

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Speaker 2: Begin it, it might be useful, and I think it'd

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Speaker 2: be interesting for me even if we were to rewind

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Speaker 2: the clock even further back. Let's go back not just

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid, but let's go one generation

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Speaker 2: further back and go back to when you were a kid,

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Speaker 2: which I imagine some of those experiences were what informed

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Speaker 2: you then when you started parenting me. Right, yeah, so

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Speaker 2: do you remember or what can you remember about the

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Speaker 2: earliest exposure or memory you have of hunting or fishing

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Speaker 2: with your dad. What's that thing that sticks out for you? Still?

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Speaker 2: Do something come to mind?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know Grandpa, my dad, he loved the outdoor

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Speaker 3: and it was you know, he was kind of a

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Speaker 3: product of the depression, product of the Second World War,

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Speaker 3: very strong minded, strong, powerful personality and as I think

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Speaker 3: many particularly men, but you know, in that generation, had

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Speaker 3: a challenge I think, really connecting personally with us as kids.

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Speaker 3: So his way of being able to do that was

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Speaker 3: through the outdoors. So the thing I remember that was

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Speaker 3: most memorable was and not that my dad didn't spend

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Speaker 3: time with us. He did. He did lots of different things.

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Speaker 3: But where we really connected, where I really felt that

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Speaker 3: I knew my dad best and really enjoyed being with

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Speaker 3: him and we'd have great conversations, et cetera, was when

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Speaker 3: we were hunting and fishing, and we spent a lot

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Speaker 3: of time doing that. As you know, Mark, every opportunity

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Speaker 3: we got, we were out in the boat fishing during

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Speaker 3: the spring and the summer, and every opportunity we got

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Speaker 3: to go up to the cabin or go out in

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Speaker 3: the woods to do hunting we did during the fu

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Speaker 3: and they were in the winter and early early fall

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Speaker 3: as well for different kinds of animals. And so for me,

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Speaker 3: I grew up outside, and I grew up loving and

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Speaker 3: appreciating the outdoors and loving and appreciating the relationship that

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Speaker 3: I had with my dad and with my brother because

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Speaker 3: of that. So for me, it was very formative in

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Speaker 3: that it created and I think really helped me grow

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Speaker 3: into the kind of person that I was. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm not not jumping ahead of a generation yet, but

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Speaker 3: that's why that was so important to me that you

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Speaker 3: had that experience, because I had it, and that was

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Speaker 3: a primary way as for me, at least, to connect

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Speaker 3: with my dad. Do you.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember Do you have like a moment that

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Speaker 2: you can think back on specifically? Is there a story

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Speaker 2: that when I say, all right, tell me about one

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Speaker 2: of these formative early in your life moments with your

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Speaker 2: dad hunting or fishing that like, is there movie can

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Speaker 2: still play in your mind of one of these days

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Speaker 2: and one of these mornings. Can you tell about.

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Speaker 3: One of those? It's yeah, I can. It's a little

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Speaker 3: bit challenging choosing just one, because honestly, I have a bunch.

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Speaker 3: But let me let me throw out one maybe two

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Speaker 3: that are really I think exemplary of what I'm what

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Speaker 3: I'm speaking of. So we did very little hunting up

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Speaker 3: in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Most of our hunting

246
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Speaker 3: was down in the southern in Baldwin in some of

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Speaker 3: those areas in mid Michigan when I was really young,

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Speaker 3: you know, four or five, six, seven, eight years old.

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Speaker 3: But one time my dad wanted to go up to

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Speaker 3: the up I think he had heard from some of

251
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Speaker 3: his friends about an area that you know, was pretty

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Speaker 3: well stocked with big bucks, and the Upper Penince of Michigan,

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Speaker 3: for those that don't know, is especially back then, it

254
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Speaker 3: was quite remote, big tall stands of pines and a

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Speaker 3: lot of conifers, very deep woods. That the interesting thing

256
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Speaker 3: is because there's very little agriculture up there. Although it's

257
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Speaker 3: beautiful terrain, not a lot of food for the deer.

258
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Speaker 3: So when you did find deer, they oftentimes were bigger,

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Speaker 3: but they're fewer and far between because of that. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: so I remember one time, I don't know exactly how

261
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Speaker 3: old I was, maybe seven, six, seven years old. My

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Speaker 3: dad got me up and said, hey, Dave, we're going

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Speaker 3: to go hunting. But it's a long ways away. We've

264
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Speaker 3: got to take off early in the morning. So you

265
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Speaker 3: got me up at three in the morning. We were

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Speaker 3: on the road by four, and we drove up to

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Speaker 3: I don't even know where in the Upper Peninsula what

268
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Speaker 3: it was, but it was a way beyond the MacNell Bridge.

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Speaker 3: And so I say it was probably seven years old

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Speaker 3: and back then. And you and I have talked about

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Speaker 3: this before, Mark, you know, this is before all the

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Speaker 3: fancy clothing. You know, I remember even seeing a pair

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Speaker 3: of surround boots on the shows at the local store.

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Speaker 3: It was a really big deal, you know. There just

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Speaker 3: we just didn't have the quality and the level of

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Speaker 3: technology in terms of outdoor clothing that we have today.

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Speaker 3: So I had, you know, an orange sweatshirt, some pull

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Speaker 3: on flannel jeans that you know I had, and then Grandma,

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Speaker 3: who was a knitter, you know, knitted up a hat

280
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Speaker 3: and knit hat and a knit scarf. And that's when

281
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Speaker 3: I went into the woods with and it was certainly

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Speaker 3: better than nothing. But I got to tell you, I

283
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Speaker 3: froze my butt off. And so we get up, we

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Speaker 3: get up to our spot up in the up. It's

285
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Speaker 3: maybe seven o'clock because it's a three or four hour drive,

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Speaker 3: we you know, very quietly sneak out to the to

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Speaker 3: the to the woods. And because we hadn't been here,

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Speaker 3: we hadn't set up any blinds or anything. That it

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Speaker 3: was kind of a you know, find the best tree.

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Speaker 3: That's the other thing that's so different about today. You know,

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Speaker 3: nine times out of ten, we just go find a

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Speaker 3: tree someplace and sit next to it. I'd sit on

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Speaker 3: one side and my dad would sit on the other,

294
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Speaker 3: and that's what we did in this particular situation. And

295
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Speaker 3: overnight a snowstorm had come in. It wasn't snowing down south,

296
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Speaker 3: but it was snowing hard up in the up So

297
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Speaker 3: these big, beautiful snowflakes falling down, and you know, all

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Speaker 3: the big pine trees were covered with snow and the

299
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Speaker 3: branches were draping low. So as we went into the woods,

300
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Speaker 3: there was probably a foot of snow on the on

301
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Speaker 3: the ground, and it was brutally cold, so cold front

302
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Speaker 3: had come in. It was I don't know what what

303
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 3: the temp was, but I'm guessing ten above fifteen above

304
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Speaker 3: for a little kid, it was really cold. So anyway,

305
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 3: so we sneak into the woods and you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: following a lot, and I got this. You know, I'm

307
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Speaker 3: all bundled up in four or five layers with this

308
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Speaker 3: orange sweatshirt on top and a knit you know it

309
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,240
Speaker 3: knitted cap and then knitted scarf around and I'm just

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Speaker 3: kind of waddling into the woods behind my dad, and

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Speaker 3: you know, he'd say, come on, Dave, let's cold. You

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Speaker 3: can do it if you just pulled me in, and

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Speaker 3: I'd follow him in these big beautiful trees. I remember

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Speaker 3: seeing with all that snow all over the branches and

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Speaker 3: hanging down, and it just seems surreal. It was like

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Speaker 3: being on another planet. It was absolutely beautiful, absolutely gorgeous,

317
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Speaker 3: absolutely freezing. So so so we get out to the to

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Speaker 3: the tree. We find a tree someplace, and really all

319
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Speaker 3: I remember is it was very thick, beautiful, just gorgeous,

320
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Speaker 3: big snowflakes the size of quarters falling. And we get

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Speaker 3: to this blind again. He sat on one side, I

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Speaker 3: sat on the other end. And he would always bring

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Speaker 3: a blanket, and so after I sat down, he'd take

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Speaker 3: a blanket and kind of wrapped me up in that blanket. Right,

325
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Speaker 3: so all you could see is my head poke up

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Speaker 3: about this this little cocoon. So we're waiting and waiting,

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Speaker 3: and Grandpa just like you and I marquess, and great

328
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Speaker 3: conversations when we're going up to hunting and that sort

329
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Speaker 3: of thing. So did so did he and I. And

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Speaker 3: one of the things and this is one of the takeaways,

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Speaker 3: certainly I took is you know, he talked about how

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Speaker 3: great it was to be able to go hunting, the

333
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 3: kind of experience of funny what to look out for,

334
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 3: how to you know, how to see the deer and

335
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 3: you know, spot the deer out in the woods, and

336
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 3: you know what to do if they do if you

337
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,399
Speaker 3: do see a deer, and how to communicate with him.

338
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 3: All those things we talked about all the way up.

339
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 3: So by the time we got, you know, to the

340
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,120
Speaker 3: Upper Peninsula and we started going out of the woods,

341
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 3: I was really stoked. I was excited. We tried back in.

342
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 3: He puts me on one side, sits on the other

343
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Speaker 3: side of this big old, you know, pine tree. And

344
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 3: what do you do when you're seven years old and

345
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,959
Speaker 3: you're walked in a half mile and it's colder than

346
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 3: I'll get out, You fall asleep.

347
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're still doing that same thing today.

348
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 3: So a couple, a couple hours later, as I recall,

349
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 3: I woke up and I'm just raizing, like my toes

350
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 3: are cold, my nose is cold, my ears are cold,

351
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 3: and and I'm just you know, my I'm shaking and

352
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 3: I'm shivering, and Grandpa courses on the other side of

353
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 3: the bine and he said, quiet, I think I see something.

354
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,720
Speaker 3: I hear something. Everybody, Oh yeah, right, sure, Dad, I'm

355
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 3: freezing and you're gonna here. But it turns out that

356
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 3: that was a false alarm. A little bit later, though,

357
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,399
Speaker 3: he says, damn, dam just touches my shoulder from the

358
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 3: back of the tree and around comes a cup of

359
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 3: hot chicken soup and a thermos. And it was the

360
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 3: best thing ever. It was like dying and going to heaven,

361
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 3: right for a little guy. So it's a combination of

362
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:18,320
Speaker 3: hot soup, I Coco and Nestle's chocolate bars that kept

363
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 3: me going during those hunting trips. So did we shoot

364
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 3: a big deer? No? Did we you know, see a

365
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 3: monster come through the woods? And was it the best

366
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 3: hume of my life? No? Was it one of those

367
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 3: memories that I'll hold deer forever because it was that

368
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,240
Speaker 3: special time that I had with my dad and It

369
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 3: was one of those experiences that clinched it for me

370
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,400
Speaker 3: as so why I left going going deer honey. Yeah.

371
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: It's an interesting example too because it's, uh, you know,

372
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 2: one of the cliche pieces of advice and probably because

373
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 2: there's truth to it when it comes to introducing your

374
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 2: kids to hunting or fishing is to you know, always

375
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 2: make sure it's fun, right, keep it fun, keep it light.

376
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 2: But will you just described there was kind of miserable

377
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 2: and challenging for a lot of it, and then punctuated

378
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 2: by a little moment of of you know, heaven.

379
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:10,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

380
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 2: So yeah, what do you uh, what do you think

381
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 2: your dad did best? Like when you look back and

382
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 2: try to understand why did you end up falling in

383
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 2: love with this stuff? Kind of knowing you your dad's

384
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 2: teaching style or just his personality or whatever it is,

385
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 2: What do you think worked as far as how he

386
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: taught you and steve to engage in these things and

387
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 2: brought you, guys to a point where you loved it

388
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 2: and wanted to do it yourselves. What what did you

389
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 2: do right?

390
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 3: You know? I think there were a couple of things

391
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 3: my dad did really well. One is he was always

392
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,199
Speaker 3: teaching it was always talking to us about the woods

393
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 3: and about hunting and fishing in the different aspects of it.

394
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 3: But it was always in It was always a teaching mode.

395
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,120
Speaker 3: It was always, hey, remember to do this, remember how

396
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 3: to do that. You know, be careful about this. You

397
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 3: remember the walking through the woods. And then just my

398
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 3: dad was really good of building excitement and Mark, I

399
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 3: think you can relate to this, right. I mean, we

400
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 3: go into the cabin and there's a dozen outdoor life

401
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 3: or you know, the Least Deer Hunting magazine sitting on

402
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 3: the table, would pull it up and talk about an

403
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 3: artic league just so and it just he made it fun.

404
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 3: The other thing is that if my dad transitioned from

405
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 3: being a teacher to being a coach, and I think

406
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 3: that's really critical. So you know, a teacher explains to

407
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 3: you what to do, describes what to do and leads

408
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 3: you through it. A coach stands back and watches you

409
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 3: do it and then just at the right time and

410
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 3: the right place, strategically adds a little hint, a little

411
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 3: piece of information to help you do a little bit better.

412
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 3: And my dad was good at that.

413
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: As we got older, when did that transition start to happen.

414
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 2: When you do you recall when that shift started to

415
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 2: take place.

416
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, somewhere around forty five.

417
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: It took him a little while, Yeah, I know, No, no.

418
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say it was maybe twelve, I would say

419
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 3: fourteen in that timeframe, you know, because we'd been hunting

420
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 3: with him, that that shift from us being with him

421
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 3: and he was the hunter, to us being with him

422
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: and we were also the hunter. Because it was a

423
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: period where we would carry our you know, when I

424
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 3: was twelve, fourteen years old and I had a twenty

425
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 3: two fourteen, four ten over and over under. You know,

426
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 3: there were times when we would both sit on either

427
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: side of the tree and he just kind of that

428
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 3: was kind of his mentoring, right, It was to kind

429
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 3: of coach us through that. But I'd say sometime after

430
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 3: that we transitioned to that pure coach And again, like

431
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 3: I say, my dad was really good at that.

432
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: What was your dad not good at? What do you

433
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: recall when you look back on those early days when

434
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 2: you were hunting and fishing, that did not help you

435
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: fall in love with these things or to teach you that. Yeah,

436
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 2: was there anything that almost made you not want to

437
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: do these things?

438
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: You know, although my dad was a good teacher and

439
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 3: a good coach, he sometimes could be impatient. And well,

440
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 3: there's another thing that I think I need to put

441
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 3: on the plus side before I talk about the negative.

442
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: The other thing my dad was really really good at

443
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 3: is making it, making us excited and making it fun. Okay,

444
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,239
Speaker 3: So those were on the on the plus side. But

445
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 3: I think on the negative side, I think the patience

446
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: at times was a struggle with him. So my father

447
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 3: was very goal oriented, a perfectionist in what he did,

448
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: and although he was really good at teaching and coaching,

449
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 3: I think he at times was impatient with how you know,

450
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 3: we're ten year old kids, right year old kids or whatever.

451
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 3: So I say that that's something that I tried to

452
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 3: do with you is to be a lot more patient

453
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 3: and allowed you to maybe make your own mistakes. And

454
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 3: that's okay because you learned from mistakes.

455
00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. What what when you look back on those early years,

456
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 2: is there a lesson or one single thing if you

457
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: had to take one thing that you learned from your

458
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: dad that when you became a dad yourself, you thought

459
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 2: would be foundational in how you parented me in Kristin,

460
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: what would be that most important thing and I'm sure

461
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: you probably mentioned an example maybe, but what was that

462
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:31,719
Speaker 2: If there was ultimate lesson that you took with you.

463
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting you bring it up. And this

464
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 3: is kind of tied to some of what we just

465
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: talked about. You know, what's kind of a hard transition

466
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 3: for me to make, and I think every parent needs

467
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 3: to keep this in mind. We joke about how when

468
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 3: you were young and we were walking through the woods

469
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: before the age of six or seven, let's say, was

470
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 3: somewhere around that six seven, maybe eight. I was in front,

471
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 3: I was leading. I was kind of giving you perspective

472
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: than saying watch out for that log, mark so on

473
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 3: and so forth. Somewhere around that transition, something flipped and

474
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 3: it was you and fraud, you telling me to watch

475
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: out for the log. And I think what's really important

476
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 3: is a parent is to allow that to happen, is

477
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 3: to encourage that transition. Don't be threatened by it. Don't

478
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: And I remember, you know, in a different domain, but

479
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: I remember when you and I were bass fishing and

480
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 3: doing bass fishing tournaments, and there was a there was

481
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 3: a point at which you knew more than I did.

482
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 3: You were better at it than I was. And it

483
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: would have been easy to kind of maybe not maybe

484
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: not resent it, but but you know, kind of react

485
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: to that a little bit. And I think it's really

486
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 3: important as a parent to allow your kids to express

487
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: themselves and be their own persons, even if that means

488
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 3: they might be a little bit more knowledgeable or a

489
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 3: little bit better at something that you love and do.

490
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: So it'd be different if I don't really I didn't

491
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 3: really care for dear hunting, or it'd be different if

492
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: I didn't really care for bass fishing. But I love both,

493
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: and you were better than I was, and that's okay,

494
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 3: and that's a good thing. But I think that's something

495
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 3: important to recognize and encourage. It's not about and I

496
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,919
Speaker 3: think men in particular, we tend to be, or at

497
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 3: least the men I know, we tend to be so competitive,

498
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 3: and sometimes it's easy to translate that into our relationship

499
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 3: with our kids as well.

500
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 2: So you mentioned, you know, my early days as a kid,

501
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: and I know a story you told before is about

502
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 2: when I was, you know, a little guy, and we

503
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: were going on hunting and I was three or four

504
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 2: on the floor of the blind just playing with toys

505
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: and napping and all that kind of stuff. So one

506
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: thing I noticed that I can recall, I think this

507
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 2: mirror is what you experienced as a kid, was that,

508
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 2: you know, you took me, You took me whenever you

509
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: were going. It seems like I don't honestly remember a

510
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: whole lot of hunting or fishing trips that you went

511
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 2: on when I was alive that I wasn't on. I

512
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,479
Speaker 2: can I can remember, like I remember once you went

513
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: to Canada on a fishing trip without me. I remember

514
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: that one, yeah, But I can't recall a whole lot

515
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: other than that. So you were dragging me along in

516
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 2: all these things with you. What was that like when

517
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: I was three or four or five and you had

518
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: your own passion for the thing, hunting or fishing, But

519
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 2: now you had this tag along who's slower, louder, you know,

520
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: more easily distracted. I know what that experience has been

521
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: like for me as an adult, But what was that

522
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: like for you? And having a three year old, four

523
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 2: year old little Mark Kenyon messing up your hunt and fishing?

524
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, No, I think that's a really really good point,

525
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: and I think it was. It certainly impacts your success,

526
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: It impacts and I think you're like me, Mark, Well,

527
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: you're much more than me in terms of being very

528
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 3: gulorated and everything's formalized, and you want to make You've

529
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 3: got a strategy and a plan for how you're going

530
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 3: to approach a particular hunt or whatever. And when something

531
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 3: doesn't work out, he doesn't go exactly to plan. It's

532
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: easy to get upset by that. It's pretty easy to

533
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: get frustrated by that. I think when you're again this,

534
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 3: I'll point back to Grandpa for this. Grandpa was just

535
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 3: really good and no matter how he was very serious,

536
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: a very serious hunter and a very serious fisherman. But

537
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 3: we were always first, so we never he never compromised

538
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 3: that experience of his experience for us. He always prioritized

539
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 3: us over that. And I think that's what I try

540
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: to do with you, and I think that's what you

541
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 3: do with your kids. So it's not about as much

542
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 3: as we love the sport if you really want to.

543
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 3: So I think another thing that's really important about teaching

544
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 3: our kids to love the outdoors and to love, you know,

545
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 3: the sports that we enjoy that I think a lot

546
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: of people may not appreciate. It is not just about

547
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: getting them outdoors and given them the experience and that

548
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 3: sort of thing. It's about building deeper relationships they're going

549
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 3: to last a lifetime, because I really think that's what

550
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 3: this is all about. It's not about catching the biggest

551
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 3: fish or shooting the biggest ear. It's really about love

552
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: for God's creation and nature and building a really strong

553
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 3: relationship with the ones you love and doing that. And

554
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: I think that's that's what I've learned from my dad,

555
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 3: and I think that's what I see you doing with

556
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 3: your kids.

557
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think I've said this before on

558
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 2: the podcast, or maybe you said I can't remember who,

559
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: but you know, if we hadn't had hunting and fishing,

560
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: I don't know what kind of relationship we would have had.

561
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: You're right, You're right, you know these we're very different

562
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 3: a lot of ways.

563
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that. This has been that one thing that

564
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 2: has really brought us together on something we have shared

565
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: interest in and passion for and vocabulary around, you know.

566
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, right.

567
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: So you brought up something though that raises a question

568
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: that I have been, you know, struggling with at times,

569
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: or I guess recognizing in myself a challenge. I guess

570
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: I've recognized in myself is that I have found myself

571
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: wanting success when I'm out there with the kids, and

572
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, I'm goal oriented, I'm hard charging. I

573
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of other hunters and anglers out

574
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 2: there like that too, who want to get the turkey.

575
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 2: I want to shoot the buck. I want to catch

576
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: the big fish. And so I have caught myself sometimes

577
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: out there with Everett or Colton, and I want success

578
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: so badly, and I think, like, man, if only we

579
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: could shoot this buck with Ever here, it would be

580
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: so incredible and it would be such a great moment

581
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: for him. And I'm thinking about this for him, but

582
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: then I'll catch myself. So an example I talked about

583
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: this last week with Tony. An example of this was

584
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: this past hunting season. I think I told you the story.

585
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: There was this opportunity that me and Effort had to

586
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: go after like a four and a half year old,

587
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: actual mature buck here in Michigan. I was like, man,

588
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: we actually have a chance to kill this big old

589
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 2: buck with Ever, Like everything's set up perfect, and he

590
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 2: was excited about it, and I thought this would just be incredible,

591
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: Like this is going to be so great. But what

592
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 2: happened over the course of these two hunts. Is that

593
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: because I was putting this extra pressure on it, because

594
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 2: I thought we had a real chance to kill this

595
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,959
Speaker 2: big old buck, everything all of a sudden, like everything

596
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: was ramped up, the pressure on every time he talked

597
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: too loud, or every time he moved too much, or

598
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: every time it was just like I was on a

599
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 2: hair trigger because of that, because I wanted it so

600
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: bad for him. But then I realized at some point

601
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 2: down the road, like he doesn't really care about that.

602
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 2: He just wants to have a good time. He just

603
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: wants to be out here with me. And I am

604
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: I hurting his ability to have a good time because

605
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 2: I'm trying to put my goals on his or impose

606
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: my goals on him. So did you ever I guess

607
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: what I'm trying to get at here is did you

608
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: ever encounter that? Did you have how did you deal

609
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: with that? What did you do? Did you Did you

610
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: ever have a time back in the day when man

611
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 2: you want to catch fits so bad because he knew

612
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: I'd be stoked about it, but then you know, I

613
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: was just in la la land. And did you push

614
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: through that? Did you try to get me over the

615
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: hump or did you say, all right, no, this is

616
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: going to be a warm collecting mission because that's what

617
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: Mark wants to do. What's your recommendation for dealing with

618
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 2: that or where's that balance point?

619
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 3: Well, well, I think I think it's a I think

620
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 3: I think you hit on some really good points. And

621
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: I think one of the maybe guiding principles is to

622
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: remember that it's more about the relationship, especially with your kids.

623
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: Right when you're with your friends, when you're with your

624
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 3: your favorite hunting buddy, then then that's all different. But

625
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 3: when you're with your kids or your family, I think

626
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: it's more about the relationship than it is about the trophy.

627
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 3: And I think keeping things in perspective. And you know,

628
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 3: one of the things I tried to do, and I

629
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 3: think it's really important right up front, is that your

630
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 3: expectations appropriately, you know, think about it ahead of time,

631
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 3: Think about the great experience you're going to have, think

632
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: about maybe the big buck that's going to walk on

633
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: in front of you with when you're with your son.

634
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 3: But then remind yourself that it doesn't matter how big

635
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 3: the deer is. It doesn't matter whether you even see

636
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: a deer going back to your point, Mark, you know,

637
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: some of my best hunts with my dad we never

638
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 3: shot a deer. That wasn't what I remember. What I

639
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 3: remember is the conversations we had, or the time, you know,

640
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 3: the chicken soup that he passed around the tree to me.

641
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 3: That's what I remember. Those are the things that you know,

642
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: ten years from now from then, gave me the passion

643
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 3: for wanting to be outdoors and being with him, and

644
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 3: you know, being able to hunt and fish. So those

645
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 3: think of it as the seeds that you're planning that

646
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 3: are going to grow into the love for the outdoors.

647
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 3: And sometimes speeds need watering, and sometimes you know, you

648
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 3: need to prone a few of those those you know

649
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: dead branches. And some of those dead branches aren't on

650
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 3: the one you're hunting with, they're in you. And so

651
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 3: I think that's really important. I think that's really cay

652
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: and it's really hard. Again, I think not not to

653
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: be not to say that this isn't a challenge for

654
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 3: women as well, but I think it's particularly a challenge

655
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 3: for me because we tend to be so competitive.

656
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 2: So along those same lines, another one of my debates

657
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: that I continue to return to when I'm outside with

658
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,959
Speaker 2: the boys. Is something I'm curious about how you dealt

659
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: with I see, as we talked about hunting and fishing

660
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 2: and all these outside activities as a great opportunity to

661
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: have fun with the kids.

662
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 3: Right.

663
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: You want to keep it fun, You want to make

664
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: it fun for them. You want to focus on what

665
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: their experience is, right, all these things you just mentioned.

666
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: On the flip side, though, I've also seen hunting and

667
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: fishing in the outdoors as this great arena for developing

668
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: resilience and toughness and you know, becoming comfortable discomfort. Right, Like,

669
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: these these experiences where we are pushed beyond what we

670
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 2: think is possible. I have found those to be, you know,

671
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: such such critical parts of what that hunting and fishing

672
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: experience has been for me. If I didn't have that,

673
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: how would I have developed these characteristics? And so I

674
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: want that for my kids too. I want them to

675
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: be pushed. I want them to have to deal with

676
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 2: the tough stuff and push through it and develop mental

677
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 2: toughness and all that. So how did you go about

678
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: walking that line between the two between keeping it fun

679
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: but not making it so cushy cushy that I never

680
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 2: had to deal with the tough stuff. Was that something

681
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,360
Speaker 2: you were thinking about at any point over those years?

682
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, And I think one of the ways

683
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 3: we did that's something we haven't talked about yet. That's

684
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: kind of related to this. And the phrase that I

685
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 3: would use is feed the habit. Remember that Mark? Oh yeah,

686
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 3: So feeding the habit is when we go to Cabela's

687
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 3: or our favorite sporting goods store. You were there with me,

688
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: we were going through we were talking about, you know,

689
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 3: the gear that we wanted to pick up for our

690
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 3: next hunt, or the gear we're going to buy for

691
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: the next tournament we're going to fish, and and very

692
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 3: quickly you started studying and looking at what the best

693
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 3: equipment was. And you would be you know, teaching me

694
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 3: in many cases because that became an internal passion for you.

695
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 3: So I think I think a couple of things that

696
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 3: are really important is, first of all, everybody's different. Every

697
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 3: one of your children would be different. So don't try

698
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 3: to make a square peg into a round hole. There's

699
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 3: some kids and I can see this with you know,

700
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 3: with some of our grandkids as well, is that you know,

701
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: they they approach it maybe a little bit differently than you.

702
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: Would or maybe a little bit different than their sibling.

703
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: That's okay, find that way. So you know, with with

704
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 3: our daughter, we took a very different approach, but we

705
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 3: were able to find her passion or see what her

706
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 3: passion was, and then help her discover that. It's I

707
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 3: think there's a couple of key That one is, I like,

708
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: you know, that whole euphemism about feeding the habit It

709
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 3: really gets that. Make sure they don't have to have

710
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 3: the best equipment, they don't have to have the best

711
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 3: of everything, but it has to be good enough. It

712
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 3: has to be good enough that it encourages the experience

713
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: and enhances the experience. So we didn't go out and

714
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 3: buy the twenty dollars of co reels and you know,

715
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 3: ten dollars crappy little poll from Walmart. We spent a

716
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 3: little bit of money and got a decent reel and

717
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 3: a decent rig And you were part of that. You were,

718
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 3: in many cases telling us what you wanted, right because

719
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 3: you've done the research. I think the other pieces is

720
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 3: that it's eternal. You can never you can never make

721
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 3: somebody love somebody something. It really has to come from them.

722
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 3: And your job as a parent is not to force

723
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 3: them to love your Your favorite sport is to encourage

724
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 3: that passion and love inside first. And I think that's

725
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: how you do it. You make it fun. You feed

726
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 3: to have it. So when you see that spark of interest,

727
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 3: that spark of gee, I really enjoy are you doing this?

728
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: Then encourage it. You don't need to spend a ton

729
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: of money. It's not about buying the best. It's about

730
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 3: buying or encouraging them and equipping them with the equipment

731
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 3: that's going to allow them to have a positive experience.

732
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 2: Okay, then that all makes sense, But I feel like

733
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 2: I feel like, let me let me rephrase my question.

734
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 2: WHOA did you ever make me sit it out in

735
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: the freezing cold blizzard weather when I said I want

736
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: to go inside. I'm cold, this is miserable, and you're no, no,

737
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: hear me out though I want to go inside, I

738
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 2: wasn't having fun. But did you have situations like where

739
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: that where you thought to yourself, all right, I have

740
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 2: a choice. Mark says he is cold. Mark says he's

741
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: not having fun. But this is a teaching moment. This

742
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 2: is an opportunity for Mark to grow a little are there?

743
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: Did you ever have that situation where you had to

744
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: debate with yourself like, okay, do we call it quits

745
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: because this is not type one fun anymore? Or were

746
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: there moments where like, you know what, I know, this

747
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 2: isn't fun right now, but this is going to make

748
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: him a man, This is going to help him grow,

749
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: This is going to help him learn to deal with

750
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,479
Speaker 2: the tough shit in life that's coming down the line.

751
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 2: Was that something you were explicitly ever thinking about, debating,

752
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 2: trying to figure out did you do that the right way?

753
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: Do you think or at all?

754
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 3: Yes? And no, so yes, we thought about it. Yes,

755
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 3: there are times when you wanted to go in, you

756
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: were uncomfortable, you weren't ready. Now you're a little bit

757
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 3: of a special case in this domain. I mean, you

758
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 3: were pretty passionate about it. You were the one who

759
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 3: was telling me to stay out in the woods longer.

760
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: So this is a little bit different in your case.

761
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 3: But I guess what I'm saying is you kind of

762
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: have to read your audience, is really what I'm saying.

763
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 3: And yes, reading your audience doesn't mean you you just

764
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 3: you know, follow at everyone requests, but it also means

765
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 3: that if you there's a very fine line between sticking

766
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 3: it out, going the way the whole way and then

767
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 3: or and have an experience turned into a negative experience

768
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 3: that turns you off and encourages you to go off

769
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 3: and take up soccer or something else. R right, And

770
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: I think you have to be really careful on how

771
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: you play that as parent. So I think, yes, we did,

772
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 3: and we have, But I also think it's really important.

773
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 3: What's most important is not that you force your kids

774
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 3: to stick it out and make them tougher and that

775
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 3: sort of thing, but that you you understand kind of

776
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 3: the psychology behind what the what is going on in

777
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 3: the experience and and help them wright because this is

778
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 3: these are life lessons, and I think that's the other

779
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 3: thing that's really important. This This isn't about it partially

780
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: about you know, getting outside and hunting and fishing. Yes,

781
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 3: it's about that, but even more so and underlying all that,

782
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 3: we're really talking about how you live your life, how

783
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 3: you approach failure, how you approach success, how you approach

784
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 3: you know, to your point mark perseverance. That's what you're

785
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 3: teaching throughout all this. So think about the lesson that's

786
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 3: being learned from their perspective and make sure that you're

787
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 3: taking that into context as you make those decisions.

788
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, continuing on a similar line of thinking, then

789
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: what I'm giving you here dat is all of my

790
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 2: existential questions that I'm trying to figure out. Like you

791
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 2: just described, like there's this line, a very fine line

792
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: between those two things, and it seems really hard to

793
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: be able pin down where the line is. Yeah, but

794
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 2: here's another one that I have thought about a lot,

795
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 2: especially with ever, you know, having more and more interest

796
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: in getting, you know, really seriously involved with hunts and

797
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 2: you know, wanting to be with me when I shoot

798
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: at ear or shooting a with his BB gun at

799
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 2: an animal, or you know, going out there and helping

800
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: me track and gut deer. He wants to be in

801
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 2: it and do it all. And so I find myself

802
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 2: asking and thinking a lot about how do I balance

803
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 2: this other thing, which is keeping hunting or fishing fun,

804
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: like just fun, enjoying the experience, but also somehow conveying

805
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: the seriousness of it. How do I keep a thing

806
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: fun but also teach them to respect the animal, to

807
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: understand the gravity of killing an animal, clubbing a fish,

808
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 2: whatever it might be, I could see. I have found

809
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: myself like battling with like, Okay, I want to make

810
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: sure he understands this and he's got to take this

811
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: serious and he needs to get this. But then I

812
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 2: will catch myself and be like, Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa?

813
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 2: Am I putting too much on him too soon? And

814
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 2: do I just need to let it be fun right

815
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: now without diving too deep into that because he's too

816
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: young to understand that. How do you think about that?

817
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 2: How do you do that?

818
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 3: You know? So now I'm and it sounds like I'm

819
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 3: flipping because I think those are really important license Now

820
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 3: maybe maybe you're thinking about this as being such an

821
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: important aspect because I emphasized that and Grandpa emphasized it

822
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 3: with me. So underlying everything I just talked about, all

823
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 3: the experiences that we had hunting and fishing, was a

824
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: really strong sense of how do you be safe? How

825
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 3: do you be respectful? How do you make sure you're

826
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 3: doing the right thing and you're doing you're hunting or

827
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 3: you're fishing or whatever the sport is, whatever the activity is,

828
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 3: you're doing it with integrity. And that was I think

829
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 3: an underlying theme in every conversation we had, and that

830
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 3: was one of those things that was absolutely essential. It

831
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 3: was it was non negotiable, is the word I'm looking for.

832
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 3: So we started, we started young with that and that

833
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 3: I think we had maybe not as many conversations about

834
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 3: those things as we did, you know, the actual process

835
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 3: of hunting, but pretty close. I mean, that was pretty important,

836
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, can you recite the what was

837
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 3: it to tip? What was the little acronym that Grandpa

838
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: gave you for? How do you carry your weapon and

839
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:13,320
Speaker 3: use your weapon?

840
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 2: TPS?

841
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 3: TPS?

842
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that T stands for trigger. I'll never put your

843
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: finger on the trigger until just before you're about to shoot.

844
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 2: P stands for points. Never point your gun at anything

845
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: unless you're gonna shoot it. Always keep it up in

846
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: the air, down to the ground, and s always make

847
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: sure your gun is on safety TPS.

848
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 3: I made my point and that was part of drilled

849
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 3: into you when you're probably six years.

850
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 2: Old, right, yeah, yeah.

851
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 3: So you know, I think you need to do. My

852
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 3: opinion is and everybody is different, So I'm not suggesting

853
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: that my way is the only way or the best way,

854
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 3: but my opinion is that that's that you do that

855
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 3: hand in hand with the process of learning how to

856
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: and loving the sport of hunting. It's just as important

857
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: and in some ways even more important, because then these

858
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 3: are life lessons. This is not to me, hunting and

859
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 3: fishing is as much about teaching life lessons as it

860
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 3: is about the sport itself.

861
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 2: What do you what do you think about what we

862
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: have now in Michigan in many states now where age

863
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 2: requirements have been removed, So so kind of taking what

864
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 2: we're talking about here, how there's so many life lessons.

865
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: There's all these different important things we're learning as we

866
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: learn to hunt or fish or shoot. And you know,

867
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 2: I think kids can be remarkably mature and ready to

868
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: understand the gravity of hunting or fishing to some degree

869
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 2: at different ages. But you know, you and I were

870
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 2: forced to wait until we were twelve or fourteen or

871
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 2: whatever it is before we could actually do the thing

872
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 2: ourselves because the state regulated it. Now that has been

873
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 2: removed in many states because we want to have the

874
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 2: opportunity for kids to hunting fish sooner before they get

875
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 2: into video games or competitive sports or whatever and never

876
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: have the chance to do it.

877
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 3: So now, yeah, you and I've had this conversation.

878
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, So there are a lot of five year

879
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: old kids, six year old kids, seven year old kids

880
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: now who are shooting and killing deer with their dad

881
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: or the grandpa or a mentor with them, but they're

882
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: they're pulling the trigger on animals at five years old,

883
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: six years old? What are your thoughts not, you know,

884
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 2: we're not necessarily judging other people for their decisions, but

885
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: what are your thoughts on the timing of a kid's

886
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: exposure to that, giving your experience with me, because I'm

887
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: trying to make that decision right now with Ever, Like

888
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: when when Ever wants to shoot a deer? Now he's like,

889
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 2: I want to do it, I'm ready, Dad. What would

890
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: your guidance be to me as I try to decide

891
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 2: what that appropriate age will be for him?

892
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you and I had this conversation a

893
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 3: few months ago. When you shared this with me, I

894
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: wasn't aware that many states had lowered or eliminated some

895
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 3: of those age requirements. I was shocked, quite honestly. I

896
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 3: really struggle with that because I think, for a couple

897
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 3: of reasons, there are the mark Kenyans of the world

898
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 3: who were very mature and very i would say responsible

899
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 3: at a very young age as they learned how to hunt, okay,

900
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: and you had that structure around you and pounding in

901
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 3: your head around safety and that sort of and you know,

902
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: respect for the animal and that sort of thing from

903
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 3: a very young age. But not everybody has that, and

904
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 3: not everybody is mature mature is at the same rate.

905
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 3: And I'm really concerned about that that I understand why

906
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 3: it's being done. I totally understand the need to be

907
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 3: able to encourage more hunters in the woods, and I

908
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 3: applaud that, but I'm really concerned about that because I'm

909
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 3: afraid there are going to be you know, not even

910
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 3: I'm not even as concerned about there being some terrible

911
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 3: accident where somebody gets shot, that sort of thing. But

912
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 3: just this realizes sense of oh, I don't know, casualness,

913
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 3: casual illness, casualness. I guess the work about you know,

914
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 3: carrying a firearm or a bow into the woods and

915
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: the impact of that, the potential for an accident. But also,

916
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 3: and as you know, Mark, one of the things that

917
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 3: Grandpa really pounded in my head and your head as well,

918
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 3: is you never shoot a running deer. Now, why did

919
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 3: he do that?

920
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: You asked me that. The question for me, why did

921
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: he say not to shoot the running deer.

922
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 3: Why do you think Grandpa not just said it, he

923
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 3: pounded that in square heads?

924
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because his the rule that we learned was that

925
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 2: you would only take the most ethical, you know, quick

926
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 2: killing shot you could out of respect for the animal,

927
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: and that a running shot would not do that right exactly.

928
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 3: And again I'm not judging somebody who disagrees on other

929
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 3: circumstances where that may not be possible. But to me,

930
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 3: my suspicion is that not all parents are not all

931
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 3: guardians or friends or whatever have that kind of sense.

932
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 3: So to me, it seems more dangerous, less respectful, and

933
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 3: more likely that we're going to have hunters in the

934
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 3: woods who are more likely to kill deer through a wound,

935
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 3: not through a kill shot where they find the deer

936
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 3: and you know, harvest it, and there'll be more probability

937
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 3: for accidents. That's what I'm worried.

938
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 2: About, because kids are getting to start hunting from a

939
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 2: younger age. I don't know, if I don't know, if

940
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: I follow.

941
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: You, yes, so not not. I'm not saying in every case.

942
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 3: I'm saying that kids mature at different rates, and I'm

943
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 3: concerned about younger kids being in the woods. Now tell

944
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 3: me if this is true. Mark. As part of that process,

945
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 3: some of the hunter safety requirements have also been dropped,

946
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 3: isn't that true?

947
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: So so like in Michigan, you can have if I

948
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 2: were call the latest the last time I looked into this,

949
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 2: to bring someone out, you had two years where you

950
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 2: could apprentice as a hunter, so without having to go

951
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: through hunter safety. You could buy hunting license and hunt

952
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: with a licensed mentor for two years before you had

953
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: to complete hunter safety. So that would give you the

954
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 2: opportunity to have a kid go out at a younger

955
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: age before they've gone through the whole thing and experience it,

956
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: and then you know, go through the hunter safety thing,

957
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 2: but again they have to be with a licensed mentor

958
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: who has gone through hunter safety, who has done those things.

959
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 2: So to Devil's Advocate what you're saying, there could be

960
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,879
Speaker 2: an eight year old who goes with his dad, who

961
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 2: his dad's sitting right next to there, next to him,

962
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: guides him through everything. He gets this exposure, he gets

963
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 2: to experience it, he recognizes that he is into this

964
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 2: and is excited about it. Then he goes to the

965
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: whole hunter safety thing and then eventually when he's older,

966
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 2: he can go off on his own. So this isn't

967
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: like we're releasing eight year olds into the while by themselves,

968
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: right right, Yeah, And I.

969
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 3: Feel more comfortable with that, I would say, so an

970
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 3: apprenticeship kind of approach. I'm more comfortable with so. But

971
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 3: but again, I'm you know, this is not a yay

972
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 3: or nay or black and white. I'm just a little

973
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 3: concerned about so. And it's also a degree. So if

974
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,280
Speaker 3: you're talking eight year olds versus ten year olds versus

975
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 3: twelve year olds, you know, it was fourteen when I

976
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 3: first got my first license, and first here we were

977
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 3: not allowed to hunt younger than that. So I can

978
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 3: see both sides of the coin and that remark reguard Mark,

979
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 3: and I do like that apprenticeship kind of mentor approach.

980
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 3: But it you know, you asked, and that's my kind

981
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 3: of where I stand.

982
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: Hey, no, I did ask, but you didn't answer my question.

983
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 2: My question would be what would your guys be to me?

984
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: Not what's your overall opinion on should younger kids be

985
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: able to go hunting? My question is, so.

986
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 3: You're asking me what should you do with ever Coleton?

987
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's your advice to me? When I choose when

988
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 2: Everett should be able to shoot his first turkey or deer,

989
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 2: because he can accurately shoot a baby gun right now,

990
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 2: and next year he'll probably be shooting a four ten

991
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 2: or something or twenty two, and a year or two

992
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 2: after that, I'm sure he'll be able to shoot a

993
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: two seventy or a three fifty or whatever. So within

994
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 2: a few years he will be I'm pretty dark confident

995
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: he will be able to effectively shoot a weapon that

996
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: would kill a deer or a turkey by the time

997
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 2: he's let's say eight, If not, probably could do it sooner,

998
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 2: but let's just conservatively say I'm confident he could do

999
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 2: that by then. So if you and I were sitting

1000
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 2: drinking coffee and I told you, hey, man, Everett could

1001
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,839
Speaker 2: do it. He can pull the trigger and the thing.

1002
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 2: He's consistently effective. He wants to go, he wants to

1003
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 2: get his first dear, he wants to get his first turkey.

1004
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 2: What would your father advice be to me about the

1005
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 2: appropriate age or how to come to determine what that

1006
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 2: appropriate age is for us? How do you how do

1007
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: you approach that?

1008
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: So now it's a little bit unfair because I know you,

1009
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 3: and I know your experience and I know how you

1010
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 3: approach that right, So with you, quite honestly, I mean

1011
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 3: to speak out of both sides of my mouth. I

1012
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 3: won't be concerned, but from a legislative perspective or a

1013
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 3: regulatory perspective, I.

1014
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 2: Don't care about that about I don't care about that.

1015
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: All I want is just give just give me the advice.

1016
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 3: I think you should do it.

1017
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 2: That's that's all I want. But but tell me more

1018
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 2: that you still not answer my question?

1019
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 3: Dad? Yeah, what else is it? Right?

1020
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: What do you what's your advice to me about how

1021
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 2: I think about this, how how I determine that proper

1022
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 2: age forever? So let's play what questions would you ask me?

1023
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's play Devil's advocate a little bit. Okay, Now,

1024
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 3: I'm I don't mean to put you on the spot

1025
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 3: with your kids, but let me let me do that

1026
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 3: just because I know them fairly well. And so you

1027
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 3: describe Everett and his passion for hunting and his carefulness

1028
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 3: around hunting. You've been coaching and I've watched you do this.

1029
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 3: You are very careful. You do exactly what my dad

1030
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 3: did with me and with you, So and Everett also

1031
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 3: has this really intense focus on hunting, so he listens

1032
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 3: to everything you say and he applies it uniquely. I mean,

1033
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 3: he's taken almost as if he's writing everything down and

1034
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 3: reviewing it every time he does, you know, something related

1035
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 3: to that. And again I'm not suggesting that Colet and

1036
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 3: someone like this, he very well can be. He's two

1037
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 3: years younger, who knows, But let's say he wasn't. Let's

1038
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 3: say he was a little less careful, a little bit

1039
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 3: more uncautious, or a little bit more spontaneous. Right. You know,

1040
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 3: you need as a parent to be able to read

1041
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 3: the differences in your kids and how they approach them

1042
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 3: and then to modify your style from a coaching perspective

1043
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 3: from a hunting and fishing perspective accordingly. And you may

1044
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 3: decide I think it's appropriate. What I'm really saying is

1045
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 3: I'm asking your question by saying, this is what I

1046
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 3: would do if if Colton, just from a maturity perspective,

1047
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 3: is not ready, or if he's a little bit too

1048
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 3: you know, quick to take a shot, for example, then

1049
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 3: you know you have to be careful on you know,

1050
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 3: how the kids compare themselves and that sort of thing.

1051
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 3: But that's a scenario where I would I would pull back.

1052
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 3: I would say I try to do it in a

1053
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 3: way that he doesn't take it personally, but I try

1054
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 3: to position up a perspective of maybe it's ten for him,

1055
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 3: not eight. But so I don't know if he answers

1056
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: your question. Yeah, but that's a little closer what I

1057
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 3: think you're looking for.

1058
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that the overall point is it

1059
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: comes down to knowing your child and reading their maturity,

1060
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,760
Speaker 2: understanding what they are ready for and what they aren't,

1061
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 2: and taking that really seriously, because I do think that

1062
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 2: there is a there is a big upside right to

1063
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 2: be able to getting your kid out there and give

1064
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 2: them these opportunities. But then there's also this big, significant

1065
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: risk if you have if you take a child out

1066
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 2: that's relatively young and they have a really negative experience. Yes,

1067
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 2: you know, there's there's a real risk of like they

1068
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 2: make a bad shot, or they make some kind of

1069
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 2: mistake that ruins it all. So that's something you want

1070
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 2: to guard against too. So so yeah, I'm definitely thinking

1071
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 2: about that. And so that brings me to another one

1072
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 2: of these things that I thought a lot about, which

1073
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 2: is what about you know, kind of continuing in this

1074
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 2: same vein what about you know how you exposed me

1075
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 2: or taught me about seeing a dead animal, gutting a deer,

1076
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 2: seeing the blotting gore. I mean I remember being around

1077
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 2: you know, seeing I mean we've told the stories before,

1078
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 2: folks that have seen it, maybe in some of those shows.

1079
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 2: Like as a kid, I love standing next to the

1080
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 2: buck pole, staring at the dead deer, examining their corpses,

1081
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 2: looking up into their insides. I mean, I was fascinated

1082
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,040
Speaker 2: by all that. But what were you thinking as a

1083
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 2: as a dad? We're worried at all about me? You know,

1084
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 2: I don't know about being exposed to that too early?

1085
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 2: Or is it? Can it not be early enough? Because

1086
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: the earlier you are exposed to it, the less it

1087
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: seems like a weird thing to be scared of or

1088
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 2: worried about. You know, I have I have thoughts, and

1089
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 2: I've an approach, but I'm curious what yours was.

1090
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, my attitude towards that as a camp be early enough. Now, yeah,

1091
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 3: I think it needs to be couched from the perspective

1092
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 3: of this is part of life. This is part of

1093
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 3: the respect we have for the animal and for this

1094
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 3: gift that we have right of nature and of deer

1095
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 3: and fish and whatever wild game we're talking about. But yeah,

1096
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 3: I don't that's a that's a case where and again

1097
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 3: I think you do need to read the child. Again,

1098
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 3: this is a really important component of everything we're talking about.

1099
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 3: So there's not one size spits off. So it may

1100
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 3: be perfectly fine forever. It may not be perfectly fine

1101
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 3: for cold and that's okay. So I think you need

1102
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 3: to take that into account and allow the kids to

1103
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 3: kind of help guide that perspective. Now, sometimes it may

1104
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 3: be that there's maybe a fear of something that might

1105
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 3: be stronger than it should be. You might want to

1106
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 3: push back on that a little bit or help mitigate that.

1107
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 3: But in general, I think you need to read the

1108
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 3: audience and act accordingly.

1109
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 2: Speaking of differences with children, you have me, who became

1110
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 2: a hunting and fishing fool, right, I mean, I'm obsessed

1111
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 2: with it. It has become the sun that my world

1112
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: revolves around. It has become my passion, my career, all

1113
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 2: of these things that's my life revolves around the outdoors

1114
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 2: in the natural world. Then we have my sister Kristen,

1115
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,280
Speaker 2: who does not hunt. She I wouldn't say she really fishes.

1116
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 2: She's fished a handful times, but she doesn't fish independently.

1117
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 2: She likes nature, she gets out here and there for

1118
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: some camping and hiking, but it's in no way what

1119
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 2: my relationship with the outdoor world is.

1120
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 3: Yes.

1121
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 2: Yes, When you look back on your parenting between me

1122
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: and Kristen, is there anything you can point to? I

1123
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 2: guess my question for is why is that? Do you

1124
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 2: think that was just? Is that just because of who

1125
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 2: she is? Or do you think that And this might

1126
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 2: be a hard thing to talk about, maybe maybe not,

1127
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 2: I don't know, but did you parent her in any

1128
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 2: kind of different way, if you were being honest with yourself,

1129
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 2: that maybe led to her having a different experience than

1130
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: I did.

1131
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 3: So that's a really, really, really good question. And I

1132
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 3: thought a lot about that because I so I guess

1133
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 3: the first honest answer is I really don't know. But

1134
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 3: there are some things that I guess I think back

1135
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 3: on and think that maybe there were so Christian. Kristin

1136
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 3: had a different bent. Her passion, her explicit passion, the

1137
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 3: things she talked about, the things she really seemed to

1138
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 3: gravitate to, was something very different. It was horseback riding

1139
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 3: and anything related to horses. So we fed that habit, right,

1140
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 3: We never never really tried to push her in a

1141
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 3: different direction or guide her direction. We saw that that

1142
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 3: strong interest, and we thought of that as her passion

1143
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,959
Speaker 3: and we encouraged it. And as I say, we fed

1144
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 3: the habit. So that meant finding a person who had horses,

1145
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 3: who was learning how to ride it, was doing you know,

1146
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 3: competitive racing like she did for ten years, was all

1147
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 3: those kinds of things. Now, having said that, I think

1148
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 3: a mom and I were very invomed in that right

1149
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 3: where in that as we were with you in hunting

1150
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 3: and fishing. But you know, looking back in retrospect, and

1151
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 3: Christen's made some you know a few comments along the

1152
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 3: way that lead me to believe that she kind of

1153
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 3: felt left out that I favored you for going up

1154
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 3: to the cabin or going hunting or going fishing or whatever,

1155
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 3: when maybe there was more of an interest in her

1156
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 3: doing it than we realized. So yeah, I mean, I

1157
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 3: think that's the honest answer. I don't really know, and

1158
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 3: she would I think she would tease, you know, she

1159
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 3: would joke about it, but I'm not sure how serious

1160
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 3: she is that she you know, that I would always

1161
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 3: take you up and not take her. But I do

1162
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 3: kind of look back and then say, wow, did I

1163
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 3: miss an opportunity? Should I have spent more time with her?

1164
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 3: It wasn't a conscious thing, but yeah, I minut it's

1165
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 3: a good question. Unfortunately, I don't have a really good

1166
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 3: answer for you other than that.

1167
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so looking back, what would you say? Yeah, well, actually,

1168
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 2: before we go here, you mentioned the feed the habit thing,

1169
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: right you said you said you did that with me

1170
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 2: and with her was with the horseback riding. Can you

1171
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 2: just elaborate on that a little bit because I do

1172
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 2: feel like that has been one of the one of

1173
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 2: the great lessons I've learned from you, was this idea

1174
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 2: of feeding the habit. Can you just expand a little

1175
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 2: bit on what that looked like more? I mean you

1176
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 2: earlier you talked about that was like buying the gear,

1177
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 2: but it was more than that. Can you can you

1178
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 2: just elaborate on that a little bit more and how

1179
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 2: that helped?

1180
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I think it's a combination of three or

1181
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 3: four things. One is talking about it, having conversations around it,

1182
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 3: understanding what your interests were around that topic, yours being

1183
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 3: primarily hunting, and fishing, and Christen's being horseback riding and

1184
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 3: then learning about it, being an active engager with your

1185
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 3: child and so that they know that you care about

1186
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 3: what they care about. And again, this is relationship building, right,

1187
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 3: This is more than just getting out in the woods.

1188
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 3: This is about life lessons. So I think that's part

1189
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 3: of it. Yes, what I saw and partially with my dad,

1190
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 3: but that was kind of the age, you know, thirty

1191
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 3: four years ago. But I see this with other people

1192
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 3: as well, where they they kind of you know, when

1193
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: it gets down to them bringing their kids into their sport,

1194
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 3: they're more interested in making sure they have the best equipment,

1195
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 3: the best stuff, whatever it is. And then they either

1196
01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 3: give hand me down to or they they buy the

1197
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 3: you know, Walmart stuff for their kids. And in some

1198
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 3: respects that doesn't matter, right, kids may be too young

1199
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 3: or may not necessarily care what kind of rifle they're

1200
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 3: carrying or whatever. But in many cases it sends a message, right,

1201
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 3: It sends a subtle thing that that maybe it's not

1202
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 3: as important, you're not as important or whatever. And I'm

1203
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 3: not talking again about buying the best stuff. I'm talking

1204
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 3: about having them actively participate in that. And then I

1205
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 3: think the third thing that I think we did with

1206
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,760
Speaker 3: you is we we you know, we we got involved

1207
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 3: in kind of the community around deer hunting. So we

1208
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 3: read a lot of magazines, we you and I. I

1209
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 3: don't remember how many times you and I went and

1210
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 3: beast feasts and that sort of thing with other hunters. Right,

1211
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 3: We got involved with the community around you know, our

1212
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 3: cabin and the people in the cabin around the cabin

1213
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 3: that we talked to, around the hunting that was going on.

1214
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 3: So it's just the whole atmosphere, the environment, and I

1215
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 3: think that's really important. So, you know, I say that

1216
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 3: that's kind of the the overall perspective that I would

1217
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 3: take around that perspective of feeding the habit Yeah.

1218
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that if I were to look

1219
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 2: back on things and say what led me to be

1220
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 2: who I am, A lot of it was was that

1221
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 2: it was it was putting rocket fuel behind anything I

1222
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 2: indicated I was interested in. So it was Yes, when

1223
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 2: I showed that love for hunting fishing, you were fanning

1224
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 2: the flames. I didn't have to fight for time to

1225
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 2: go hunting and fishing. I didn't have to fight for

1226
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 2: the fishing rod. You know, you saw something that you

1227
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 2: viewed as positive for me, and then you you fan

1228
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 2: those flames, you make that happen. That you were in

1229
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 2: no way slowing that down. You were helping that. You

1230
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 2: were giving me the push there and supporting that with gear,

1231
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 2: with your time, and and to your point, the community

1232
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 2: thing was no small thing. I think just the idea

1233
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 2: of like being able to be a part of the group,

1234
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 2: like being with the men up at deer Camp. That

1235
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 2: was pretty transformational for me too. Just getting to be

1236
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 2: in the room, hear the stories, be a part of that.

1237
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 2: That was so I mean, I don't know, maybe you

1238
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 2: remember when you were a kid hanging out with your

1239
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 2: dad and Jerry and those guys like you felt like

1240
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 2: you were bigger than you were and you were part

1241
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 2: of this very exciting, manly adult thing that was like

1242
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 2: a dream and you get to be a part of

1243
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 2: it and that was pretty special. So I can point

1244
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,919
Speaker 2: to a lot of things like that that I look

1245
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,959
Speaker 2: back on that that were great, that worked, that got

1246
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 2: me to where I am. What about what didn't work?

1247
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 2: Do you remember anything? Is there anything when you look

1248
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 2: back on raising me that you realize, like, man, this

1249
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 2: is not working well or I really screwed that up

1250
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:19,520
Speaker 2: or I made a big mistake there, so so you know, yes.

1251
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 3: But it's probably not in a way that you would expect.

1252
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 3: And I kind of alluded to this before. You know,

1253
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 3: it's not that I screwed up or we screwed up

1254
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 3: and helping you discover your sport or you're passionate for

1255
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:36,760
Speaker 3: your sport. It's more that that moment of recognition when

1256
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 3: I realized that the mantle had kind of been transferred

1257
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 3: from me to you, and that's that is. You know.

1258
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 3: I think we all, again, especially men, maybe not exclusively men,

1259
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 3: we all have a we all have a need to

1260
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:55,960
Speaker 3: feel like we're good at something, we're successful at something,

1261
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 3: we can we can beat our competitors. You know, this

1262
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 3: is just overall sense, and I think whether we acknowledge

1263
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 3: it or not, we all want to feel that way

1264
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 3: with our kids as well, until they're adults, right. I

1265
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 3: think we all consciously think, well, when they're adults, they're

1266
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 3: you know, they're having their own careers. They have, But

1267
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 3: when your twelve year old son can outbeat you, outfish

1268
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 3: you in a tournament, that's a little humbling and I

1269
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:25,640
Speaker 3: think that's okay. I think that's what I learned is

1270
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 3: I started shifting my perspective from personal success to celebrating

1271
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 3: your success and not and not seeing that as a

1272
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 3: personal front or somehow as a you know, a weakness.

1273
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 3: It was a strength. It's great to see your kids

1274
01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 3: and then and then actually step back to a different role.

1275
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 3: So I would say, certainly, in the last twenty years,

1276
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 3: since you've been in this role and your passion has

1277
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 3: grown and your knowledge has grown, the roles have changed.

1278
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 3: So now I'm the mentee and you're the tur and

1279
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 3: that's fine.

1280
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 2: Was that was that hard when that first began? Did

1281
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 2: you resist that? Did you was there? Did we ever

1282
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 2: butt heads or did you ever want to put me

1283
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 2: in my place? Tell me a shut up and listen?

1284
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 2: I mean, what was that experience?

1285
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 3: Like? Well, I think we did butt heads a little bit, right,

1286
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 3: and those I think and you probably can recall a

1287
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 3: few of these instances as well where I would say something,

1288
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 3: you say, well, Dad, that's not quite right, and I think, uh, again,

1289
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 3: going back to relationships, our relationship is such that it

1290
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:37,799
Speaker 3: was fine, but there is a little bit of personal

1291
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 3: pride and perspective that relationship changes, just like you know,

1292
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 3: kind of similar to the process of aging. You know, you,

1293
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 3: as you get older, your your role changes a little bit,

1294
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 3: and I think that I think you need to do

1295
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 3: that gracefully is really what I'm what I'm trying to say,

1296
01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 3: recognize and celebrate and encourage this success of your kids.

1297
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 3: In your case, I mean, you way far surpassed and

1298
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:08,920
Speaker 3: most every aspect of hunting anything I ever did. And

1299
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 3: I think that's phenomenal now.

1300
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 2: And fishing too, fishing too, don't forget that.

1301
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 3: Thanks a lot. But it's not just that, it's also

1302
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 3: recognizing that that I can it's okay, and I want

1303
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 3: to learn and grow through you. So that's okay, and

1304
01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 3: that's tremendous. And because we have that relationship, we have

1305
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 3: fun doing it so we can joke about it. You know.

1306
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:37,799
Speaker 3: That's I think that's really important. But I think that

1307
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 3: that is a risk I think and maybe could be

1308
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 3: threatening some dads and some moms who are teaching their

1309
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 3: kids how to hunter fish when they go through that transition,

1310
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 3: that can be a little bit threatening at times.

1311
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we were talking about this the other day.

1312
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 2: You and I were up at the up a deer camp.

1313
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 2: We were driving home. We are in the drive through

1314
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 2: at McDonald and I brought up a statistic I recently heard,

1315
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 2: which was something along the lines of, on average, you

1316
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 2: will the average American will have experienced eighty percent of

1317
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 2: their time with their child by the time their child

1318
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: turns eighteen. So eighty percent of the time you will

1319
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 2: get with your kids over your entire life happens eighty

1320
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 2: percent happens before they turn eighteen and are out the door.

1321
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 2: That was a very like eye opening thing for me.

1322
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 2: So what I'm getting at here is that those years

1323
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 2: where your child is living at home and you have

1324
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 2: this close intimate opportunity to experience these hunting and fishing

1325
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 2: memories and adventures and outings, that's like a fleeting thing. It's

1326
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,720
Speaker 2: this I've been having this realization myself as it's gone

1327
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 2: so fast, like it seems like yesterday I didn't have kids,

1328
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 2: and now I have a five year old going on

1329
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 2: six's who can do almost everything, and who's who I'm

1330
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 2: realizing is so quickly going to be like like you're

1331
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 2: talking about, he's going to be surpassing me and he's

1332
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 2: gonna be out there doing his own things. And I

1333
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 2: guess I'm just realizing that this thing is flying in

1334
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 2: front of my eyes, and it's it's something I feel

1335
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 2: like I'm still trying to figure out how to do it.

1336
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 2: And before I even figure out how to do it,

1337
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 2: it's going to be done. So when you look back,

1338
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,719
Speaker 2: you look back on those years with me and Kristen.

1339
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 2: You look at those eighteen years when we were there

1340
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 2: at home with you and I was going to ken

1341
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 2: Revean with you as a kid, and we were sitting

1342
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 2: the blind together, or we were in the boat up

1343
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:38,799
Speaker 2: in Canada catching walleye, or we were walking through the swamp.

1344
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 2: Two things I would ask, number one, what do you

1345
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 2: cherish the most from those years? What stands out above

1346
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 2: everything else as the great takeaway from those years? And

1347
01:12:56,040 --> 01:13:01,400
Speaker 2: then secondly, do you have any regrets threats? Do you

1348
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 2: regret anything that either happened or did not happen over

1349
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 2: those years?

1350
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 3: Good questions. So what do I cherish the most? Is

1351
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 3: the one on one time? It is it is the

1352
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 3: so our sport, whether it was hunting or fishing, became

1353
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 3: the It was the rallying point. It was the thing

1354
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 3: that we were doing together. It was the context. But

1355
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:33,480
Speaker 3: that was providing the context for some of the best conversations,

1356
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 3: some of the most intimate moments, some of the most

1357
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 3: vulnerable moments that I've ever had with you, And same

1358
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 3: thing's true with Kristin. Now with Kristin was a little

1359
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 3: bit different because it was usually Mom and I and

1360
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 3: we were doing group things, not so much one on one.

1361
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,679
Speaker 3: And I say, that's my regret, my regret with Kristin

1362
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 3: as I wish I had found a one on one

1363
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:54,720
Speaker 3: activity where I could have spent more one on one

1364
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 3: time with her. It's really you know, the old adage

1365
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 3: of quality time and that sort of in my opinion,

1366
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 3: that's bunk. There is no such thing as quality time.

1367
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 3: There's just time and focus and personal one on one

1368
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 3: time with your child and whatever context, hopefully a positive,

1369
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 3: encouraging and fun environment. Those are the opportunities. That's the

1370
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 3: opportunity for those relationships to grow. What I love so

1371
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:30,559
Speaker 3: much about hunting and fishing is that it's not just

1372
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,639
Speaker 3: an opportunity for the two of you to get together

1373
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 3: for a moment. It's usually at least hours long, if

1374
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 3: not days long, So you just have this wonderful context

1375
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,960
Speaker 3: to be close, to be vulnerable, to talk about things

1376
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 3: you normally and you know you and I always joke

1377
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 3: about that right, Mark, we have some of our best

1378
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 3: conversations in the car going up to the cabin and

1379
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:55,440
Speaker 3: coming back to the cabin. I mean, that's the opportunity.

1380
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 3: And so you know, my own regret is kind of

1381
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 3: going back to what you said a few minutes ago.

1382
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 3: That time, that first eighteen years goes by so fast,

1383
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 3: and one of the one of the challenges I think

1384
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 3: we've had, and I think most parents who have good

1385
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 3: relationships with their kids have, is you just wish you

1386
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:16,839
Speaker 3: had more. You just wish you who. You know, during

1387
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 3: the period of time when your kids are young, you're

1388
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 3: so focused on your career. You're so focused on things

1389
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,840
Speaker 3: that in the big scheme of things, frankly, just don't

1390
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 3: matter much that by the time you realize that kids

1391
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 3: are grown and they're off doing their thing, and now

1392
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:34,720
Speaker 3: you try to make up for it by doing that

1393
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: with your grandkids. Right, So, you know, the younger you

1394
01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:42,600
Speaker 3: can realize that, the sooner you develop those kinds of

1395
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 3: habits with your family, I think, the happier you'll be,

1396
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 3: the happier they'll be, and the longer those relationships and

1397
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 3: deeper those relationships will be.

1398
01:15:52,360 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, if if you for whatever reason, we're told that

1399
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:05,719
Speaker 2: today is the last day ever that you can give

1400
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,760
Speaker 2: your son a piece of advice when it comes to

1401
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 2: this hunting and fishing, raising children to become hunters and anglers,

1402
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:18,920
Speaker 2: to appreciate the outdoors, to when it comes to all this.

1403
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 2: If today, right now was your last opportunity to leave

1404
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 2: me with two thoughts, you've got two final thoughts of

1405
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 2: everything we've talked about here, or maybe something we haven't

1406
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,720
Speaker 2: talked about, if you had to synthesize it down, if

1407
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 2: you had to distill everything we've covered down to the

1408
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 2: two simple things that I absolutely must take away from

1409
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 2: this conversation and carry with me for the rest of

1410
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:45,639
Speaker 2: my life. And you will not have another opportunity ever

1411
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 2: to tell me these things. What would those two things

1412
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 2: be dead?

1413
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 3: Find? Okay, two things. First, find a way to build strong,

1414
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:03,760
Speaker 3: deep relationships with your kids. And again, there is no

1415
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 3: such thing as quality time. Quality time as well. Gee,

1416
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:08,519
Speaker 3: if I spend an hour with them a week doing something,

1417
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 3: that's that's enough. It's not. Find a way to make

1418
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 3: time one on one with your kids. And two, find

1419
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 3: a way to help them feel important. And when I mean,

1420
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 3: what I mean by that is not haughty, but that

1421
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 3: they're loved unconditionally, and that there's nothing in this world

1422
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:39,479
Speaker 3: that can make you love them many last. And I

1423
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 3: think that's part of what being a good parent is.

1424
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 3: It's building that sense of self worth in your child,

1425
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 3: that sense of confidence, that sense of of you know,

1426
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I know who I am,

1427
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:54,760
Speaker 3: I know I am loved. I know that nothing, no

1428
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 3: matter how rough the situations in life are, that I'm

1429
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:01,640
Speaker 3: going to make it. And I think the time. It

1430
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 3: sounds cliche, but I truly believe that a time in

1431
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 3: the woods, the time and the boat, the time in

1432
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:10,600
Speaker 3: the stream, if you approach it from that perspective, is

1433
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 3: the way you do that, or at least one of

1434
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 3: the ways you do that.

1435
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, wise, wise words dead. I am very fortunate

1436
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 2: to uh to have had you teaching me those things

1437
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 2: and uh and raising me that way. So thank you

1438
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 2: for that, and thank you for chatting about all this

1439
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 2: publicly in front of I'm not in front of, but

1440
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 2: verbally in front of a whole lot of folks. I

1441
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. I think this has been great.

1442
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 3: Thank you, Mark.

1443
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:45,280
Speaker 2: And let's uh, let's just say I'll remove that rule

1444
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 2: off the table. You are allowed to continue giving advice

1445
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 2: into the future, all right, I will. I will continue

1446
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:54,720
Speaker 2: to take your wisdom and insights because I still got

1447
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 2: a lot to learn. So don't feel like you're stuck.

1448
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 3: Funny, funny, how that's completely turn around. I'm usually asking

1449
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 3: you questions and learning from you and getting all that.

1450
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:05,920
Speaker 3: So you know, remember that whole you know, the tables

1451
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 3: are turned thing. But I think that's you know, as

1452
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:12,280
Speaker 3: you as you develop your relationship with your kids into adulthood,

1453
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 3: those relationships become friendships as opposed to mentoring and coaching, right,

1454
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 3: And I am thrilled and blessed to have the relationship

1455
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 3: with you and Krystal.

1456
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty good stuff. And I guess on that note,

1457
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:28,600
Speaker 2: let's let's wrap this one up and hopefully we can

1458
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,080
Speaker 2: come back and do another podcast a few years down

1459
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 2: the road from now, and we can be talking about

1460
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 2: however it got his first deer or his first turkey,

1461
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,640
Speaker 2: or the great memories we've been able to build up

1462
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,919
Speaker 2: at Ken Rovan and some success that we've had up there. Hopefully,

1463
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 2: I trust we're gonna have some good stories in the

1464
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 2: next five to ten years to share.

1465
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 3: Sounds great, Mark, Thank you all.

1466
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 2: Right there, you have it. Thank you for tuning in.

1467
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:55,640
Speaker 2: I hope there was something interesting in here. Hope you

1468
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 2: were able to garner a few insights, something that will

1469
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:01,479
Speaker 2: help inspire you in your own either as a parent

1470
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 2: now or down the road, if that's in the cards

1471
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:08,720
Speaker 2: for you. Like I said at the top, this is

1472
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 2: the pinnacle of hunting and fishing in my opinion, right,

1473
01:20:13,479 --> 01:20:15,160
Speaker 2: I don't care about the big bucks, I don't care

1474
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 2: about the trophy turout bringing our kids into this world,

1475
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:23,639
Speaker 2: into this tradition, into this pursuit and lifestyle. Man, there's

1476
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 2: no bigger win than that. There's no more meaningful trophy,

1477
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 2: experience and achievement and way of life than sharing these

1478
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:40,760
Speaker 2: outdoor pursuits with our kids. So let's give it the

1479
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 2: same attention, passion, and obsession that we do for our deer, hunting,

1480
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 2: our fishing, whatever it is. So thank you, Thanks for

1481
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:54,200
Speaker 2: taking time to dive into this with you, Thanks for

1482
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:58,759
Speaker 2: being here, and until next time, stay wired.