WEBVTT - Ep76 "How do you decide?" (Part 2)

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<v Speaker 1>How do brain's time travel. We all know what a

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<v Speaker 1>prediction is, but why is the important thing to the brain?

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<v Speaker 1>What's called a prediction error? And what does any of

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<v Speaker 1>this have to do with the two thousand and eight

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<v Speaker 1>crash of the economy, or how we keep internal price

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<v Speaker 1>tags on everything, or what we should do with the

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<v Speaker 1>war on drugs. Welcome to Inner Cosmos with me David Eagelman.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford and in

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<v Speaker 1>these episodes we dive deeply into our three pound universe

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<v Speaker 1>to uncover some of the most surprising aspects of our lives.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's episode is part two about decision making, so let's

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<v Speaker 1>quickly summarize last week's episode to get ourselves back up

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<v Speaker 1>to speed. In that episode, we saw how the brain

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<v Speaker 1>is a sophisticated decision making machine. It's constantly engaged in

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<v Speaker 1>choosing among options. Now, this can be something trivial like

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<v Speaker 1>deciding between a taco and a burrito, all the way

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<v Speaker 1>to life altering decisions like whether to take that job

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<v Speaker 1>or whether to propose marriage. Now, while early economists assumed

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<v Speaker 1>that humans make decisions rationally by weighing pros and cons

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<v Speaker 1>to arrive at the optimal choice. Modern day psychology and

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<v Speaker 1>neuroscience reveals a pretty different story and what we saw

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<v Speaker 1>last week, and something I've talked about before here a

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<v Speaker 1>lot is that the brain is composed of multiple networks,

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<v Speaker 1>each with its own goals and desires, and these often

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<v Speaker 1>compete with one another to influence the decisions that we make,

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<v Speaker 1>and this internal conflict is at the heart of how

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<v Speaker 1>we navigate the world. And by the way, the massive

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<v Speaker 1>battles under the hood largely occur below our conscious awarenes

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<v Speaker 1>So for example, when you look at a picture that

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<v Speaker 1>can either be perceived as a duck or a rabbit,

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<v Speaker 1>your brain chooses one interpretation over the other, and we

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<v Speaker 1>can measure what's happening in the activity of neurons to

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<v Speaker 1>see how one network wins over the other one. And

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<v Speaker 1>in the case of a picture like that, your interpretation

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<v Speaker 1>goes back and forth and back and forth. Now that

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<v Speaker 1>might not feel like a decision to you, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>the same neural process of having competing networks that are

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<v Speaker 1>fighting for dominance, and the same neural battle is mirrored

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<v Speaker 1>in everyday choices, like when you choose between different flavors

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<v Speaker 1>of a sports drink or whether to take the right

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<v Speaker 1>trail or the left trail. All your options are represented

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<v Speaker 1>by different coalitions of neurons in the brain, and these

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<v Speaker 1>coalitions compete for dominance and the winner determines the action

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<v Speaker 1>we take. And we saw simple tasks like this stroop

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<v Speaker 1>task where you have conflicting information like the word reed

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<v Speaker 1>printed in blue ink and you're supposed to name the

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<v Speaker 1>color of the ink. This highlights the tension between different

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<v Speaker 1>networks in the brain. And similarly, we are always facing

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<v Speaker 1>moral dilemmas like I mentioned the trolley problem last week,

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<v Speaker 1>and this demonstrates how emotional and rational networks can come

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<v Speaker 1>into conflict and it can lead to different outcomes depending

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<v Speaker 1>on which network prevails. And one of the things we

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<v Speaker 1>saw from that was that emotions play a really crucial

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<v Speaker 1>role in decision making. The importance of emotional input into

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<v Speaker 1>your decision making is seen really clearly when people get

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<v Speaker 1>brain injury like damage to the orbit or frontal cortex,

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<v Speaker 1>because then they can't integrate the emotional signals from the

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<v Speaker 1>body into a decision, and that leaves a person paralyzed

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<v Speaker 1>within decision even in very simple situations. So without the

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<v Speaker 1>ability to read these bodily signals which we're providing summaries

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<v Speaker 1>of different options. People struggle to make choices. So the

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<v Speaker 1>brain's decision making process is not a straightforward calculation of

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<v Speaker 1>pros and cons but a dynamic interplay of competing networks

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<v Speaker 1>and emotional signals. Every decision we make from what to

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<v Speaker 1>where in the morning, or which coffee shop to choose,

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<v Speaker 1>or how we respond in a crisis, the choices are

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<v Speaker 1>all the results of this ongoing conflict within our brains.

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<v Speaker 1>Now where we left off last week with seeing how

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<v Speaker 1>each decision involves our past experiences stored in the states

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<v Speaker 1>of our body and the present situation like do I

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<v Speaker 1>have enough money to buy this instead of that? Or

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<v Speaker 1>is this other option available? But there's one more part

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<v Speaker 1>to the story of decisions, and that is predictions about

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<v Speaker 1>the future. So that's what we're going to talk about today. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>across the animal kingdom, every creature is wired to see reward. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>surely this is something you know, but have you ever

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<v Speaker 1>thought about the question what is a reward? At its essence,

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<v Speaker 1>a reward is something that will move the body closer

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<v Speaker 1>to its ideal set points. So water is a reward

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<v Speaker 1>when your body is getting dehydrated. Food is a reward

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<v Speaker 1>when your energy stores are running down. Now, water and

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<v Speaker 1>food are called primary rewards because they directly address biological need.

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<v Speaker 1>But what's super interesting is that human behavior is steered

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<v Speaker 1>by secondary rewards, which are things that predict primary rewards.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, the sight of a metal cylinder wouldn't by

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<v Speaker 1>itself do much for your brain, but because you've learned

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<v Speaker 1>to recognize it as a can of sparkling water, then

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<v Speaker 1>the sight of it comes to be rewarding when you

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<v Speaker 1>are thirsty, and in the case of humans, much more

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<v Speaker 1>than anywhere else in the animal kingdom. We can find

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<v Speaker 1>even very abstract concepts rewarding, such as a political ideology

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<v Speaker 1>or the feeling that we are valued by our local community,

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<v Speaker 1>and unlike other animals, we can often put these rewards

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<v Speaker 1>ahead of biological needs. As my colleague Read Montacu points out,

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<v Speaker 1>sharks don't go on hunger strikes. In other words, the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the animal kingdom only chases its basic needs,

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<v Speaker 1>while only humans regularly override our basic needs. In deference

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<v Speaker 1>to abstract ideals, concepts that we have decided are rewarding

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<v Speaker 1>to us. So whenever we're faced with different possibilities, we

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<v Speaker 1>integrate internal and external data to try to maximize reward. However,

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<v Speaker 1>reward is defined to you as an individual. Now here's

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<v Speaker 1>the point I want to make. The challenge with any reward,

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<v Speaker 1>whether basic or abstract, is that choices to typically don't

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<v Speaker 1>yield their fruits right away. We almost always have to

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<v Speaker 1>make decisions in which a chosen course of action will

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<v Speaker 1>yield reward at a later time. People go to school

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<v Speaker 1>for years because they value the future concept of having

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<v Speaker 1>a degree, or they slave through decades of work that

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<v Speaker 1>they don't like with the future hope of a promotion.

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<v Speaker 1>Or you push yourself through painful exercise with the goal

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<v Speaker 1>of being fit in the future. Now to understand this,

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<v Speaker 1>let's think about the concept of anticipated reward. To compare

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<v Speaker 1>different options means assigning a value to each one in

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<v Speaker 1>some common currency that of anticipated reward, and then choosing

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<v Speaker 1>the one with the highest value. So let's make this concrete.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's say you have a small window of free time

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<v Speaker 1>and you are trying to decide what to do. You

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<v Speaker 1>know that you need groceries, but you also know that

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<v Speaker 1>you really need to sit down and get that big

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<v Speaker 1>email I'll sent off, and you're also way behind on

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<v Speaker 1>arranging to meet with your friend at the coffee shop. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>these are all very different things groceries, email, friend. So

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<v Speaker 1>how does your brain arbitrate this menu of options. It

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<v Speaker 1>would be easy if you could directly compare these experiences

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<v Speaker 1>by living out each one and then rewinding time and

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<v Speaker 1>finally choosing your path based on which outcome was best.

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<v Speaker 1>But the mummer is that you can't travel in time,

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<v Speaker 1>or can't you? In fact, human's time travel daily time

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<v Speaker 1>travel is what the human brain does relentlessly. When faced

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<v Speaker 1>with the decision. Your brain simulates different outcomes to generate

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<v Speaker 1>a mockup of what your future might be. We call

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<v Speaker 1>this time traveling. Mentally, you can disconnect from the present

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<v Speaker 1>moment and voyage to a world that doesn't yet exist.

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<v Speaker 1>Now simulating a scenario in your mind. That's just the

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<v Speaker 1>first step. To decide between the imagined scenarios. You try

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<v Speaker 1>to estimate what the reward will be in each of

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<v Speaker 1>those potential futures. So when you simulate filling your pantry

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<v Speaker 1>with the groceries, you feel a sense of relief at

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<v Speaker 1>being organized and avoiding uncertainty. Finishing that email carries different

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of rewards, not only the primary reward of maybe

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<v Speaker 1>securing some money as a result, but more generally, the

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<v Speaker 1>kudos from your boss and a rewarding sense of accomplishment

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<v Speaker 1>in your career. Now you can also imagine yourself at

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<v Speaker 1>the coffee shop with your friend, and that inspires joy

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<v Speaker 1>and a sense of reward in terms of relationships and

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<v Speaker 1>closeness with other people. So your final decision between these

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<v Speaker 1>three options will be navigated by how each future stacks

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<v Speaker 1>up against the other others in the common currency of

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<v Speaker 1>your reward system. Now, this choice isn't easy, because all

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<v Speaker 1>these valuations are nuanced. The simulation of the grocery shopping

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<v Speaker 1>is accompanied by feelings of tedium, and your simulation of

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<v Speaker 1>writing the long email is attended by a sense of frustration,

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<v Speaker 1>and your simulation of your friend at the coffee shop

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<v Speaker 1>is accompanied with guilt about not getting work done. But

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<v Speaker 1>in all these cases, under the radar of awareness, your

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<v Speaker 1>brain simulates all these options one at a time and

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<v Speaker 1>does a gut check on each and that's how you decide.

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<v Speaker 1>But here's a question, how do you simulate these futures accurately?

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<v Speaker 1>How can you possibly predict what it will really be

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<v Speaker 1>like to go down these paths. The answer is that

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<v Speaker 1>you can't. There's no way to know that your predictions

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<v Speaker 1>will be perfectly accurate. Your simulations are only based on

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<v Speaker 1>your past experiences and your current model of how the

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<v Speaker 1>world works. The key business of brains is to predict,

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<v Speaker 1>and to do this well, we need to continually learn

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<v Speaker 1>about the world from our every experience so that we

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<v Speaker 1>can make the best guesses that we can. So in

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<v Speaker 1>this case, you place a value on each of these

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<v Speaker 1>options groceries or email or coffee shop, based on your

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<v Speaker 1>past experiences and using the Hollywood studios in your mind,

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<v Speaker 1>you travel in time to your imagined futures to see

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<v Speaker 1>how much value they'll have, and that's how you make

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<v Speaker 1>your choices. You compare possible futures against one another. That's

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<v Speaker 1>how you convert competing options into a common currency of

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<v Speaker 1>future reward. So think about your predicted reward value for

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<v Speaker 1>each of these options like an internal price tag that

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<v Speaker 1>stores how good something will be. Because grocery shopping is

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<v Speaker 1>going to supply you with food, say it's worth ten

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<v Speaker 1>reward units, and writing that stupid email is difficult but

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<v Speaker 1>necessary to your career, so it weighs in at twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five reward units, and you love spending time with your friend.

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<v Speaker 1>So going to the coffee shop is worth fifty reward units.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's an interesting twist here. The world is complicated,

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<v Speaker 1>and so your internal price tags are never written in

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<v Speaker 1>permanent ink. Your valuation of everything around you is changeable

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<v Speaker 1>because quite often our predictions don't match what actually happens.

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<v Speaker 1>The key to effective learning lies in tracking this prediction error.

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<v Speaker 1>The prediction error means the difference between what you thought

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<v Speaker 1>was going to happen and what actually happened. In the

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<v Speaker 1>case of this decision about groceries or email or coffee shop,

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<v Speaker 1>your brain has a prediction about how rewarding the coffee

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<v Speaker 1>shop is going to be. Now, let's say it turns

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<v Speaker 1>out that they have some new snack there, and also

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<v Speaker 1>you run into other friends there and the whole experience

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<v Speaker 1>is even better than you thought. That raises the price

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<v Speaker 1>tag the next time you're thinking about the coffee shop.

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<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, if the coffee is cold and

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<v Speaker 1>your friend is late and distracted, that might lower your

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<v Speaker 1>price tag for the next time around. Now, how does

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<v Speaker 1>this work in the brain? How do you have these

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<v Speaker 1>dynamic internal price tags. There's a tiny, ancient system in

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<v Speaker 1>the brain whose mission is to keep updating your assessments

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<v Speaker 1>of the world. The system is made of tiny groups

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<v Speaker 1>of cells in your midbrain that speak in the language

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<v Speaker 1>of a neurotransmitter called dopamine. When there's a mismatch between

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<v Speaker 1>your expectation and your reality, this midbrain dopamine system broadcasts

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<v Speaker 1>a signal that reevaluates the price point. The signal tells

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of the system whether things turn out to

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<v Speaker 1>be better than expected, in which case you get an

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<v Speaker 1>increased burst of dopamine, or worse than expected, in which

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<v Speaker 1>case you get a decrease in dopamine. And that prediction

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<v Speaker 1>error signal, meaning there was an error in the prediction

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<v Speaker 1>that I had made, allows the rest of the brain

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<v Speaker 1>to adjust its expectations to try to be closer to

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<v Speaker 1>reality next time. So the dopamine acts as an error corrector.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a chemical appraiser that always works to make your

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<v Speaker 1>price tags as updated as they can be. That way,

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<v Speaker 1>you can rank your decisions based on your optimized guesses

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<v Speaker 1>about the future. Fundamentally, what the brain pays attention to

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<v Speaker 1>are the unexpected outcomes, something being better than expected or

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<v Speaker 1>worse than expected, and this sensitivity is at the heart

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<v Speaker 1>of animal's abilities to adapt and learn. It's no surprise then,

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<v Speaker 1>that the brain architecture involved in learning from experience is

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<v Speaker 1>consistent across species. You see this from honeybees to humans.

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<v Speaker 1>In other words, brains discovered the basic principles of getting

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<v Speaker 1>feedback from reward a long time ago. So we've seen

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<v Speaker 1>how values get attached to different options. But there's a

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 1>twist that often gets in the way of good decision making,

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.160
<v Speaker 1>which is that options that are right in front of

0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.120
<v Speaker 1>you tend to be valued higher than those that you

0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.360
<v Speaker 1>merely simulate. The thing that trips up good decision making

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.480
<v Speaker 1>about the future is the present. I'll give you a

0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:59.680
<v Speaker 1>really interesting example of this. In two thousand and eight,

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 1>the US economy took a sharp downturn. Many of you

0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 1>may remember that at the heart of all the trouble

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 1>was a simple fact, which is that many homeowners had overborrowed.

0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 1>They had taken out these mortgage loans that had really

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>low interest rates for a period of a few years,

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.320
<v Speaker 1>and the problem occurred at the end of that period

0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.479
<v Speaker 1>when the interest rate suddenly shot up to something quite high,

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of homeowners suddenly found themselves facing down

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 1>the barrel of these higher interest rates. And they realized

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.320
<v Speaker 1>they weren't going to be able to make the payments.

0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:38.080
<v Speaker 1>So close to a million American homes went into foreclosure,

0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.840
<v Speaker 1>and that sent shockwaves through the economy of the planet. Now,

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 1>what in the world does this have to do with

0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 1>competing networks in the brain. Here's what these loans called

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:54.320
<v Speaker 1>subprime loans. They allowed people to obtain a nice house

0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:59.200
<v Speaker 1>right now, with the high interest rates defferred until later.

0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:04.200
<v Speaker 1>As such, the offer perfectly appealed to the neural networks

0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.960
<v Speaker 1>that care about instant gratification. In other words, those networks

0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.960
<v Speaker 1>that want things right now. The idea was here, take

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 1>these keys, this house is yours. The mortgage payments are

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.400
<v Speaker 1>pretty easy to make. Oh yeah, the rates will go up,

0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.680
<v Speaker 1>but that's a long way away. That's obscured in the

0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.200
<v Speaker 1>midst of the future. You don't have to worry about

0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.800
<v Speaker 1>that right now. That's a long way off. And because

0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:32.359
<v Speaker 1>of the seduction of the immediate satisfaction, as in, wow,

0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.239
<v Speaker 1>I can move into this house right now, I can

0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.919
<v Speaker 1>impress my parents and my friends and whatever. Because the

0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:43.160
<v Speaker 1>now pulls so strongly on our decision making, the two

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.080
<v Speaker 1>thousand and eight housing bubble can be understood not simply

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.520
<v Speaker 1>as an economic phenomenon, but as a neural one. And

0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.439
<v Speaker 1>by the way, the pull of the now wasn't just

0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.000
<v Speaker 1>about the people borrowing, of course, but it's also about

0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.880
<v Speaker 1>the lenders who are getting rich right now by offering

0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 1>loans that they suspec might not ever get paid. They

0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.679
<v Speaker 1>rebundled these loans and sold them off. Practices like this

0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 1>are unethical and illegal, but it proved too enticing to

0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 1>many decision makers when they were faced with that temptation. Now,

0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:18.160
<v Speaker 1>this now versus the future battle. This doesn't just apply

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.600
<v Speaker 1>to housing bubbles. It cuts across every aspect of our lives.

0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:24.879
<v Speaker 1>It's why car dealers want you to get in and

0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.480
<v Speaker 1>test drive the cars, because the seduction of the now

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.640
<v Speaker 1>is probably going to override your thinking about the distant

0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.760
<v Speaker 1>future when you have to pay that monthly loan. It's

0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.680
<v Speaker 1>why clothing stores want you to try on the clothes,

0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 1>because once you see yourself in front of the mirror there,

0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 1>you'll think, wow, I can't pass that up. It's why

0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 1>merchants want you to touch the merchandise. It's because your

0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 1>mental simulations of the future can't compete well against the

0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:54.440
<v Speaker 1>experience of something right here, right now. In your hands.

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.679
<v Speaker 1>In other words, to the brain, the future can only

0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:04.199
<v Speaker 1>ever be a pale shadow of the now. The power

0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.119
<v Speaker 1>of now explains why people make decisions that feel good

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:11.119
<v Speaker 1>in the moment but have lousy consequences for their future.

0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.840
<v Speaker 1>So people who take a drink or a drug hit

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.640
<v Speaker 1>even though they know they shouldn't, or married partners who

0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:22.120
<v Speaker 1>give in to an available affair, or athletes who take

0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 1>anabolic steroids even though they know it's going to shave

0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.800
<v Speaker 1>years off their life. So can we do anything about

0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.199
<v Speaker 1>the seduction of the now? Well, with a little bit

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:37.040
<v Speaker 1>of knowledge about the brain, we can. So consider this.

0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:39.879
<v Speaker 1>We all know that it's really difficult to do certain thing.

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.360
<v Speaker 1>It's like go regularly to the gym. Most people want

0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.160
<v Speaker 1>to be in good shape, but when it comes down

0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 1>to it, there are usually things right in front of

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.800
<v Speaker 1>us that seem more enjoyable. The pull of what we're

0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:55.600
<v Speaker 1>doing is stronger than the abstract notion of future fitness.

0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.720
<v Speaker 1>So here's the solution to make sure you get there.

0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.639
<v Speaker 1>You can take in spiration from a man who lived

0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.199
<v Speaker 1>three thousand years ago. Now, I talked about this in

0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.560
<v Speaker 1>a recent episode, so I'll give the short version here.

0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.480
<v Speaker 1>But it's massively important. The man we're going to talk

0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.520
<v Speaker 1>about was in a more extreme version of the Jim scenario.

0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 1>He had something he wanted to do, but knew that

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 1>he wouldn't be able to resist temptation when the time

0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.400
<v Speaker 1>came for him. It wasn't about getting a better physique.

0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 1>It was about saving his life from a group of

0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:31.600
<v Speaker 1>mesmerizing maidens. So this was the legendary hero Ulysses, on

0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 1>his way back from triumph in the Trojan War. At

0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.080
<v Speaker 1>some point on his long journey home, he realized that

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.920
<v Speaker 1>his ship was going to be passing an island where

0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:46.119
<v Speaker 1>the beautiful sirens lived, and the sirens were famous for

0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 1>singing songs so melodious that sailors were enchanted. And the

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.119
<v Speaker 1>problem was that the sailors found this irresistible and they

0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:58.800
<v Speaker 1>would crash their ships into the rocks trying to get

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.000
<v Speaker 1>to the sirens, and they would now Ulysses desperately wanted

0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.440
<v Speaker 1>to hear these legendary songs, but he didn't want to

0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.480
<v Speaker 1>kill himself and his crew, so he hatched a plan.

0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.800
<v Speaker 1>He knew that when he heard the music, he would

0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:14.239
<v Speaker 1>be unable to resist steering towards the island's rocks and

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.119
<v Speaker 1>so he recognized that the problem wasn't his present rational self,

0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 1>but instead the future illogical Ulysses, the person that he

0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:28.320
<v Speaker 1>would become. When the sirens came with an earshot, so

0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.119
<v Speaker 1>Ulysses ordered his men to lash him securely to the

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 1>mast of his ship, and they filled their ears with

0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:37.520
<v Speaker 1>beeswax so it's not to hear the sirens, and they

0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.679
<v Speaker 1>rode under strict orders to ignore any of his pleas

0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.080
<v Speaker 1>or cries or writhing around. So what was going on here?

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Ulysses knew that his future self would be in no

0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:52.000
<v Speaker 1>position to make good decisions, so the Ulysses of sound

0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:56.159
<v Speaker 1>mind arranged things so that the future Ulysses could do

0:21:56.320 --> 0:22:00.840
<v Speaker 1>no wrong. This sort of deal between your self and

0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.479
<v Speaker 1>your future self is known as the Ulysses contract. In

0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 1>the case of getting to the gym, my simple Ulysses

0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.240
<v Speaker 1>contract is to arrange in advance for a friend to

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.520
<v Speaker 1>meet me at the gym. So then I feel it's

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.439
<v Speaker 1>pressure to uphold the social contract, and that lashes me

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 1>to the mast, even though when the morning rolls around,

0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:22.919
<v Speaker 1>all I really want to do is just sleep in

0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.159
<v Speaker 1>or do something else. I've pre arranged a contract and

0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.359
<v Speaker 1>now I have to show up when you start looking

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.280
<v Speaker 1>around for these ulysses contracts, you'll see that they're actually

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:35.000
<v Speaker 1>all around you. Just as an example, I was recently

0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.920
<v Speaker 1>giving a talk on a college campus and learned that

0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:42.440
<v Speaker 1>during the week of final exams, some students will swap

0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.280
<v Speaker 1>their TikTok passwords with each other, and then each student

0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:48.679
<v Speaker 1>changes the other's passwords so that they can't log on,

0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.920
<v Speaker 1>and then when finals are over, they switch the passwords back.

0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:55.679
<v Speaker 1>So this way, during the week that they're supposed to

0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.119
<v Speaker 1>be studying, even though they know that they're going to

0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.320
<v Speaker 1>be tempted by the sirens song, they can't do anything

0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:05.880
<v Speaker 1>about it. Similarly, the first step for alcoholics in rehabilitation

0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:08.720
<v Speaker 1>programs is to clear all the alcohol out of their

0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.040
<v Speaker 1>house so that the temptation is not in front of

0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:16.320
<v Speaker 1>them when they're feeling weak. People with weight problems sometimes

0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:19.760
<v Speaker 1>get surgery to reduce their stomach volume so they physically

0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:23.400
<v Speaker 1>can't overeat. These are all things that you do right

0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:27.480
<v Speaker 1>now so that your future self won't do something that

0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:30.359
<v Speaker 1>you don't want to. It's a way to structure things

0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.399
<v Speaker 1>in the presence so that your future self cannot misbehave.

0:23:33.680 --> 0:23:37.360
<v Speaker 1>And that's the trick for getting around the seduction of

0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:40.960
<v Speaker 1>the now you strap yourself to the mast, and that

0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.520
<v Speaker 1>allows you to behave in better alignment with the kind

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:47.879
<v Speaker 1>of person you would like to be. The key to

0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:50.760
<v Speaker 1>a Ulysses contract is just recognizing that we are different

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.800
<v Speaker 1>people in different contexts. The ancient Greeks had a saying

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.080
<v Speaker 1>they liked, which was know thyself. But I've always felt

0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:00.560
<v Speaker 1>from a neuroscience point of view that the the updated

0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:06.480
<v Speaker 1>version is know thyselves now. What's strange is that knowing

0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:09.919
<v Speaker 1>yourselves is not easy because how you act at different

0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:13.159
<v Speaker 1>times is not always something you can predict. Even though

0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:17.240
<v Speaker 1>you can make good guesses, things can drift around. So

0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.359
<v Speaker 1>sometimes you're really jazzed about going to the gym, and

0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:24.159
<v Speaker 1>sometimes not so much. Sometimes you'll stick with the diet

0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 1>and sometimes you won't. Sometimes you're more capable of good

0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.680
<v Speaker 1>decision making, and other times your neural parliament won't come

0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:35.800
<v Speaker 1>out with the vote that you expected. Why it's because

0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:39.879
<v Speaker 1>the outcome depends on a lot of changing factors about

0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.080
<v Speaker 1>the state of your body. For example, states, which can

0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.000
<v Speaker 1>change hour to hour. So here's a good way for

0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:48.119
<v Speaker 1>us to appreciate this. There was a study done some

0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:52.120
<v Speaker 1>years ago looking at prisoners who are going in front

0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:54.960
<v Speaker 1>of a parole judge to see if the prisoner could

0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:59.720
<v Speaker 1>get his sentence shortened to go home early. So imagine

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:03.119
<v Speaker 1>two prisoners both scheduled to appear in front of this

0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 1>parole judge. One prisoner goes before the judge at eleven

0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty seven am. His crime is fraud and he's serving

0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:14.720
<v Speaker 1>thirty months. Another prisoner appears at one fifteen pm. He

0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:16.920
<v Speaker 1>has committed the same crime for which he's been given

0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.760
<v Speaker 1>the same sentence. Now, the first prisoner is denied parole,

0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:26.520
<v Speaker 1>the second is granted parole. Why what influenced the decision?

0:25:26.640 --> 0:25:29.679
<v Speaker 1>Was it? Race? Was at looks was at age? So

0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:33.320
<v Speaker 1>a study by Jonathan levav In colleagues analyzed one thousand

0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.600
<v Speaker 1>rulings from judges and found it wasn't about that. Whether

0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:42.000
<v Speaker 1>the prisoner is granted parole or not isn't just about

0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:46.920
<v Speaker 1>the prisoner. It's about the judge's biology. Specifically, it's about

0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:51.680
<v Speaker 1>the judge's hunger. So just after the judge had enjoyed

0:25:51.760 --> 0:25:56.159
<v Speaker 1>a food break, a prisoner's chance of parole rose to

0:25:56.200 --> 0:25:59.600
<v Speaker 1>its highest point of sixty five percent. But a prisoner

0:25:59.680 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 1>seen towards the end of the session had the lowest

0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:07.639
<v Speaker 1>chances just a twenty percent likelihood of a favorable outcome.

0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:13.560
<v Speaker 1>In other words, decisions get reprioritized as other needs rise

0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:19.040
<v Speaker 1>in importance. Your choices change as circumstances change. A prisoner's

0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:23.560
<v Speaker 1>fate is irrevocably intertwined with the judge's neural networks, which

0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:29.280
<v Speaker 1>operate according to biological needs. Some psychologists describe this effect

0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 1>as ego depletion, meaning that higher level cognitive areas involved

0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:39.280
<v Speaker 1>in executive function and planning they get fatigued. So in

0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:44.439
<v Speaker 1>this view, willpower is a limited resources. We can run

0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:47.520
<v Speaker 1>low on it, just like a tank of fuel. In

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:50.480
<v Speaker 1>the case of the judges, the more cases they had

0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:53.520
<v Speaker 1>to make decisions about, which was up to thirty five

0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:57.399
<v Speaker 1>in one sitting, the more energy depleted their brains became.

0:26:57.560 --> 0:26:59.480
<v Speaker 1>But after they ate something like a sandwich and a

0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:03.959
<v Speaker 1>piece of free their energy stores were refueled and different

0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:09.240
<v Speaker 1>drives had more power now in steering their decisions. Traditionally,

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:14.760
<v Speaker 1>we assume that humans are rational decision makers. We absorb information,

0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.760
<v Speaker 1>we process it, we come up with an optimal answer

0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:21.399
<v Speaker 1>or solution. But real humans don't work this way. Even

0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:28.800
<v Speaker 1>judges striving for freedom from bias are imprisoned by their biology.

0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Our decisions are equally influenced when it comes to how

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:35.959
<v Speaker 1>we act with our romantic partners. So consider the choice

0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:40.239
<v Speaker 1>of monogamy, bonding and staying with a single partner. So

0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:42.920
<v Speaker 1>this would seem like a decision that involves your culture

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.320
<v Speaker 1>and your values and your morals and all. That's true,

0:27:45.320 --> 0:27:48.320
<v Speaker 1>But there's a deeper force acting on your decision making

0:27:48.359 --> 0:27:52.200
<v Speaker 1>as well, which is your hormones, and one in particular

0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:55.840
<v Speaker 1>called oxytocin, which is a key ingredient in the magic

0:27:55.960 --> 0:28:00.159
<v Speaker 1>of bonding. So in one recent study, men who are

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 1>in love with their female partners were given a small

0:28:02.920 --> 0:28:06.480
<v Speaker 1>dose of extra oxytocin. Then they were asked to rate

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:11.240
<v Speaker 1>the attractiveness of different women. So with the extra oxytocin,

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:15.240
<v Speaker 1>the men found their partners more attractive, but not the

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.280
<v Speaker 1>other women. In fact, the men kept a bit more

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:22.640
<v Speaker 1>physical distance from an attractive female research associate in the study,

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:27.960
<v Speaker 1>So oxytocin only increased bonding to their partner. Why do

0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 1>we have chemicals like oxytocin steering our decision making towards bonding?

0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.439
<v Speaker 1>After all, from an evolutionary perspective, we might expect that

0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:40.520
<v Speaker 1>a male shouldn't want monogamy if his biological mandate is

0:28:40.560 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 1>to spread genes as widely as possible. But for the

0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:48.320
<v Speaker 1>survival of the children, having two parents around is better

0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:51.160
<v Speaker 1>than one. And this simple fact is so important that

0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:54.840
<v Speaker 1>the brain has hidden ways to influence you or decision

0:28:54.840 --> 0:28:58.440
<v Speaker 1>making on it. Our decisions are often steered by invisibly

0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:19.440
<v Speaker 1>small molecules that we don't even necessarily know about. Now

0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:22.520
<v Speaker 1>we've been talking all about decision making and how it

0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:25.920
<v Speaker 1>arises from battling networks in the brain. Why does it

0:29:25.960 --> 0:29:29.320
<v Speaker 1>matter to understand this stuff? While a better understanding of

0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:32.960
<v Speaker 1>decision making allows us to better steer our own lives,

0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:37.160
<v Speaker 1>and also it opens the door to craft better social policy.

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:40.880
<v Speaker 1>For example, all of us, in our own ways, we

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:45.040
<v Speaker 1>always have to battle impulse control. At the extreme, we

0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:48.120
<v Speaker 1>can end up as slaves to the immediate cravings of

0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:51.360
<v Speaker 1>our impulses. And I think from this perspective we can

0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:55.680
<v Speaker 1>gain a more nuanced understanding of the efficacy of social

0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:59.160
<v Speaker 1>programs like the War on drugs. So take drug addiction.

0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:03.200
<v Speaker 1>It's a big problem for societies. It's about seven out

0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:07.160
<v Speaker 1>of ten prisoners meet the criteria for substance abuse or

0:30:07.200 --> 0:30:10.840
<v Speaker 1>dependence and one study found that over a third of

0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:13.640
<v Speaker 1>convicted inmates were under the influence of drugs at the

0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:18.080
<v Speaker 1>time of their crime. So drug abuse translates into tens

0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:22.280
<v Speaker 1>of billions of dollars, mostly in terms of drug related crime,

0:30:22.560 --> 0:30:26.640
<v Speaker 1>and what this has led to is a burgeoning prison population. Now,

0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:29.000
<v Speaker 1>what most countries do is they deal with the problem

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:33.560
<v Speaker 1>of drug addiction by criminalizing it. The problem is that

0:30:33.880 --> 0:30:36.920
<v Speaker 1>the number of Americans in prison for drug crimes has

0:30:36.920 --> 0:30:40.160
<v Speaker 1>gone up eightfold since the War on Drugs was declared

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:43.200
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventy one, and every year the US spends

0:30:43.280 --> 0:30:47.440
<v Speaker 1>twenty billion dollars on the War on drugs. But the

0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:51.880
<v Speaker 1>investment hasn't actually worked because since the War on drugs began,

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:57.440
<v Speaker 1>drug use has actually expanded. So why hasn't it worked well?

0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:00.120
<v Speaker 1>As any economist will tell you, the difficulty with the

0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:02.840
<v Speaker 1>drug supply is that it's like a water balloon, So

0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:05.320
<v Speaker 1>if you push it down in one place, it comes

0:31:05.400 --> 0:31:10.479
<v Speaker 1>up somewhere else. So instead of attacking supply, the better

0:31:10.600 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 1>strategy is to address demand, and drug demand is in

0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:19.160
<v Speaker 1>the brain of the addict. And by the way, if

0:31:19.160 --> 0:31:21.840
<v Speaker 1>you look at who's incarcerated, the people behind the bars

0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:25.280
<v Speaker 1>aren't the cartel bosses or the big time dealers. Instead,

0:31:25.600 --> 0:31:28.080
<v Speaker 1>they are people locked up for possession of a small

0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 1>amount of drugs, usually less than two grams. They're the users,

0:31:32.160 --> 0:31:38.440
<v Speaker 1>the addicts. Now, unfortunately, going to prison doesn't solve their problems.

0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:40.720
<v Speaker 1>It generally worsens it. The problem is that when you

0:31:41.160 --> 0:31:44.240
<v Speaker 1>lock someone up and break their social circles and their

0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:47.280
<v Speaker 1>employment opportunities, where you're doing is you're giving them new

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:51.080
<v Speaker 1>social circles and new employment opportunities, and those usually don't

0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:54.400
<v Speaker 1>help them break their addiction. Some people argue that drug

0:31:54.440 --> 0:31:57.560
<v Speaker 1>addiction is about poverty and peer pressure, and those do

0:31:57.640 --> 0:31:59.960
<v Speaker 1>play a role, But at the core of the issue

0:32:00.480 --> 0:32:03.600
<v Speaker 1>is the biology of the brain. So just look at

0:32:03.880 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 1>laboratory experiments where you see rats self administering drugs. What

0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:10.760
<v Speaker 1>they'll do is they'll continually hit this lever over and

0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:13.120
<v Speaker 1>over to get drugs, and they'll do that at the

0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 1>expense of food and drink. The rats aren't doing that

0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:21.360
<v Speaker 1>because of finances or social coercion. They're doing it because

0:32:21.400 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 1>the drugs tapp into fundamental reward circuitry in the brain.

0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:29.800
<v Speaker 1>The drugs effectively tell the brain that this decision is

0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 1>better than all the other things it could be doing.

0:32:32.520 --> 0:32:35.120
<v Speaker 1>Other brain networks might be involved in the battle, and

0:32:35.120 --> 0:32:38.600
<v Speaker 1>they're representing all the reasons to resist the drug, but

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:43.400
<v Speaker 1>in an addict, the craving network wins. In fact, if

0:32:43.440 --> 0:32:45.400
<v Speaker 1>you spend a lot of time talking to people who

0:32:45.400 --> 0:32:48.040
<v Speaker 1>are addicted to drugs, you'll find that the majority of them

0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:51.880
<v Speaker 1>want to quit, and they're perfectly able to list all

0:32:51.920 --> 0:32:54.600
<v Speaker 1>the reasons why they should quit, but they just can't

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:58.760
<v Speaker 1>do it. Why. It's because they've become slaves to these

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:03.240
<v Speaker 1>short term gratifies caation circuits. Now, because the problem with

0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:07.240
<v Speaker 1>drug addiction lies in the brain, it's plausible that the

0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:11.479
<v Speaker 1>solutions lie there. Also, one approach is to tip the

0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:16.480
<v Speaker 1>balance of impulse control. So, as an example, one successful

0:33:16.520 --> 0:33:20.960
<v Speaker 1>tactic is to ramp up the certainty and swiftness of punishment,

0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:25.560
<v Speaker 1>for example, by requiring drug offenders to undergo twice weekly

0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:30.239
<v Speaker 1>drug testing with automatic immediate jail time for failure, and

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:33.200
<v Speaker 1>that way they don't have to rely on a distant

0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:38.480
<v Speaker 1>abstraction alone. Or here's something related. Some economists propose that

0:33:38.520 --> 0:33:41.560
<v Speaker 1>the drop in American crime since the early nineteen nineties

0:33:42.040 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 1>has been due in part to the increased presence of

0:33:45.600 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 1>police on the streets. So in the language of the brain,

0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:53.800
<v Speaker 1>the police visibility stimulates the networks of the brain that

0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:58.560
<v Speaker 1>way long term consequences. Now those are social approaches, but

0:33:58.640 --> 0:34:01.160
<v Speaker 1>because this is a neuroscience podcast, I'm going to tell

0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:04.560
<v Speaker 1>you about a brain based approach which is currently being

0:34:04.640 --> 0:34:08.480
<v Speaker 1>studied and this could end up being quite effective. This

0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:13.480
<v Speaker 1>involves giving real time feedback during brain imaging. So you're

0:34:13.560 --> 0:34:17.040
<v Speaker 1>allowing a person who's addicted to drugs to view their

0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:21.319
<v Speaker 1>brain activity and learn how to regulate it. So let

0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:24.319
<v Speaker 1>me tell you how this works. Imagine there's someone call

0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 1>her Susan, who is addicted to heroin. So you put

0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Susan into the brain scanner. This is using functional magnetic

0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:36.840
<v Speaker 1>resonance imaging, also known as fMRI, and you show Susan

0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:39.879
<v Speaker 1>pictures of heroin and you say to her, I want

0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:42.640
<v Speaker 1>you to go ahead and crave this. Well, that's easy

0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:45.239
<v Speaker 1>for her to do, and it activates particular regions of

0:34:45.280 --> 0:34:49.160
<v Speaker 1>her brain that we can summarize as the craving network.

0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Then we ask her to suppress her craving. We asked

0:34:53.520 --> 0:34:56.520
<v Speaker 1>her to think about the cost that heroin has had

0:34:56.640 --> 0:35:00.560
<v Speaker 1>her in terms of finances, in terms of relation ships

0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:05.320
<v Speaker 1>in terms of employment. So that activates a different set

0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:09.759
<v Speaker 1>of brain areas, which we can summarize as the suppression network.

0:35:10.239 --> 0:35:13.280
<v Speaker 1>Now here's the key. The craving and the suppression networks

0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:17.160
<v Speaker 1>are always battling it out for supremacy, and whichever wins

0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:22.160
<v Speaker 1>at any moment determines what Susan does when she's offered heroin.

0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:26.880
<v Speaker 1>So in the scanner we can measure which network is winning.

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:29.960
<v Speaker 1>The short term thinking of the craving network where the

0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:34.719
<v Speaker 1>long term thinking of the impulse control or suppression network.

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:38.839
<v Speaker 1>So we give Susan real time visual feedback in the

0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:42.160
<v Speaker 1>form of a speedometer, so she can see how the

0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 1>battle is going. When her craving is winning, the needle

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:50.000
<v Speaker 1>is up in the red zone, and as she successfully

0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:54.240
<v Speaker 1>suppresses the craving, the needle moves to the blue zone.

0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:58.280
<v Speaker 1>So she can then use different mental approaches to discover

0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 1>what works to take the balance of these networks. In

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:06.759
<v Speaker 1>other words, we're giving her visual feedback about how the

0:36:06.840 --> 0:36:11.279
<v Speaker 1>battle is going on the inside, and by practicing over

0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:15.800
<v Speaker 1>and over, Susan gets better at understanding what she needs

0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:18.600
<v Speaker 1>to do to move that needle. She may or may

0:36:18.600 --> 0:36:21.560
<v Speaker 1>not be consciously aware of how she's doing it, but

0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:26.799
<v Speaker 1>by repeated practice, she can strengthen the neural circuitry that

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:30.680
<v Speaker 1>allows her to suppress. So this technique is still in

0:36:30.760 --> 0:36:33.880
<v Speaker 1>its infancy, but the hope is that when she's next

0:36:34.040 --> 0:36:38.920
<v Speaker 1>offered heroin, she'll have the cognitive tools to overcome her

0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:42.879
<v Speaker 1>immediate cravings if she wants to. Now, the interesting part

0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:45.839
<v Speaker 1>about an approach like this, I think, is that this

0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:49.120
<v Speaker 1>training doesn't force Susan to behave in any particular way.

0:36:49.440 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 1>It simply gives her the cognitive skills to have more

0:36:53.640 --> 0:36:57.600
<v Speaker 1>control over her choice rather than to be a slave

0:36:57.920 --> 0:37:02.120
<v Speaker 1>of her impulses. And the heart of new approaches like

0:37:02.160 --> 0:37:05.640
<v Speaker 1>this is the understanding that drug addiction is a problem

0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:09.960
<v Speaker 1>for millions of people, but prisons aren't necessarily the place

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:13.839
<v Speaker 1>to solve that problem. As we develop in understanding of

0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:17.480
<v Speaker 1>how human brains actually make decisions, we can develop new

0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:21.600
<v Speaker 1>approaches beyond just straight up punishment. As we come to

0:37:21.680 --> 0:37:25.920
<v Speaker 1>better understand the operations inside our brains, we can better

0:37:26.360 --> 0:37:31.920
<v Speaker 1>align our behavior with our best intentions, and even more generally,

0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:35.200
<v Speaker 1>as we get better at understanding decision making, we can

0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:38.720
<v Speaker 1>improve other aspects of our criminal justice system beyond addiction.

0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Putting into place policies which are more humane and more

0:37:42.680 --> 0:37:45.319
<v Speaker 1>cost effective. So what would that look like. It would

0:37:45.360 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 1>begin with an emphasis on rehabilitation over mass incarceration. So,

0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:54.320
<v Speaker 1>just as one example, young people don't have a fully

0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:59.080
<v Speaker 1>developed prefrontal cortex, and so they often make decisions impulsively

0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:04.400
<v Speaker 1>without a meaningful consideration of future consequences. And so facilities

0:38:04.440 --> 0:38:09.239
<v Speaker 1>with good rehab programs work to train people to improve

0:38:09.440 --> 0:38:12.719
<v Speaker 1>their self control. You can do this with mentoring and

0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:16.000
<v Speaker 1>counseling and rewards, but all of this is to simply

0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:20.880
<v Speaker 1>train young people to pause and consider the future outcome

0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:24.080
<v Speaker 1>of any choice they might make. You encourage them to

0:38:24.360 --> 0:38:27.480
<v Speaker 1>run stimulations of what might happen, and this is how

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:32.000
<v Speaker 1>you strengthen the neural connections that can override the immediate

0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:35.040
<v Speaker 1>gratification of impulses. I'm going to come back to this

0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:37.880
<v Speaker 1>in a future episode. I'm going to talk about a

0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:41.920
<v Speaker 1>group called the Interrupters in Chicago that work to lower

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.279
<v Speaker 1>crime on the streets with essentially a version of the

0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:47.920
<v Speaker 1>same technique. When some young person gets all hot headed

0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:51.520
<v Speaker 1>and wants to take revenge on someone else, the interrupter

0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:55.480
<v Speaker 1>poses questions that forces them to think about the future,

0:38:55.560 --> 0:38:58.520
<v Speaker 1>like hey, who's going to be with your girl when

0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:02.560
<v Speaker 1>you're sitting in jail. Ah? Okay, fine, I won't shoot

0:39:02.560 --> 0:39:05.719
<v Speaker 1>the guy now. Okay? Why because he was just confronted

0:39:05.760 --> 0:39:09.839
<v Speaker 1>with a future simulation that tipped the battle of the

0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:14.319
<v Speaker 1>decision making. The fact is that poor impulse control is

0:39:14.360 --> 0:39:17.960
<v Speaker 1>a hallmark characteristic of the majority of criminals in the

0:39:18.000 --> 0:39:22.080
<v Speaker 1>prison system. Most of the people on the wrong side

0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:25.160
<v Speaker 1>of the law generally know the difference between right and

0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:28.880
<v Speaker 1>wrong actions, and they understand the threat of punishment, but

0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:33.319
<v Speaker 1>they're hamstrung by poor impulse control. They see an opportunity

0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:36.160
<v Speaker 1>for something and they take it. They don't pause to

0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:42.399
<v Speaker 1>consider other options. The temptation of the now overrides any

0:39:42.480 --> 0:39:47.520
<v Speaker 1>consideration of the future consequences. Our current style of punishment

0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:51.680
<v Speaker 1>rests on a bedrock of personal volition and blame, because

0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:55.120
<v Speaker 1>the fact is we're all deeply wired with impulses to punish.

0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:59.400
<v Speaker 1>But as we get better at understanding decision making, we

0:39:59.480 --> 0:40:03.840
<v Speaker 1>can start to imagine a different kind of criminal justice system,

0:40:04.360 --> 0:40:09.359
<v Speaker 1>one with a closer relationship to the neuroscience of decisions.

0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:12.640
<v Speaker 1>It wouldn't let anybody off the hook. People who break

0:40:12.680 --> 0:40:15.280
<v Speaker 1>the law still need to get taken off the streets,

0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:18.399
<v Speaker 1>but the system we could evolve toward would be more

0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:22.160
<v Speaker 1>concerned with how to deal with law breakers with an

0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:26.000
<v Speaker 1>eye toward their future, rather than writing them off because

0:40:26.000 --> 0:40:29.640
<v Speaker 1>of their past. Again, people who break the social contracts

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:32.239
<v Speaker 1>need to be off the streets for the safety of society.

0:40:32.440 --> 0:40:34.640
<v Speaker 1>But what happens in prison does not have to be

0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:40.640
<v Speaker 1>based only on bloodlust, but also on meaningful rehabilitation, and,

0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:45.319
<v Speaker 1>in the context of today's episode, rehabilitation based on an

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:51.200
<v Speaker 1>increasingly better understanding of how the brain makes decisions. So

0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:53.680
<v Speaker 1>let's wrap up what we saw in these last two

0:40:53.680 --> 0:40:57.120
<v Speaker 1>episodes is that decision making lies at the heart of

0:40:57.239 --> 0:41:00.760
<v Speaker 1>everything about who we are and what we do. Without

0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the ability to weigh alternatives, we would be hostages to

0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:07.920
<v Speaker 1>our most basic drives. We wouldn't be able to wisely

0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:11.520
<v Speaker 1>navigate the now or plan our future lives. As we

0:41:11.640 --> 0:41:15.840
<v Speaker 1>keep gaining more and more insight into how choices battle

0:41:15.880 --> 0:41:18.359
<v Speaker 1>it out in the brain, we can learn to make

0:41:18.440 --> 0:41:25.560
<v Speaker 1>better choices for ourselves and for our society. Go to

0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Eagleman dot com slash podcast more information and to find

0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:32.480
<v Speaker 1>further reading. Send me an email at podcasts at eagleman

0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:35.160
<v Speaker 1>dot com with questions or discussion and check out and

0:41:35.160 --> 0:41:38.399
<v Speaker 1>subscribe to Inner Cosmos on YouTube for videos of each

0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:42.440
<v Speaker 1>episode and to leave comments until next time. I'm David Eagleman,

0:41:42.600 --> 0:41:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and you have made the nice decision to join me

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:47.239
<v Speaker 1>here in the Inner Cosmos.