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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds.

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Speaker 2: And Judge Aileen Canon has shockingly shown deferential treatment to

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Speaker 2: Trump and paused some deadlines in the classified documents case.

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Speaker 2: We're back from vacation to have such a great show

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Speaker 2: for you today. National Memo editor Joe Connison stops by

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Speaker 2: to tell us about his new book, The Longest Con

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Speaker 2: How grifters, Swindler's and fraud's hijacked American Conservatism. Then we'll

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Speaker 2: talk to Next Jet America's Christina Sinsoon Ramirez, who will

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Speaker 2: tell us how to get young people out to vote.

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Speaker 2: But first we have the host of the Enemy's List,

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Speaker 2: the Linked Project's own Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back. Two weeks of vacation for me, and now

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Speaker 1: we are back with my bestie. We did actually talk

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Speaker 1: while we were on vacation, not together the Rick Wilson

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Speaker 1: Hello friend, Hello.

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Speaker 3: My dear, how are you doing on this fine, fine,

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Speaker 3: fine fine summer day.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to quickly say that the reason

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Speaker 1: that I ended up having to take a little more

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Speaker 1: time off was because I ended up having to have surgery.

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Speaker 1: It was totally fine. I don't have cancer. It was

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Speaker 1: just a surgery that I had to have. But I

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Speaker 1: ended up having to take an extra week off because

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Speaker 1: as much as I told the doctors that I was

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Speaker 1: good to podcast, they suggested that perhaps I should just

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Speaker 1: slow my role.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was a guy who went through a

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Speaker 3: minor but highly inconvenient surgery earlier this year. I feel

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Speaker 3: your pain. I really do. It's it's just like you

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Speaker 3: want to be back in it like the next day,

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Speaker 3: and they're like, why don't you take one day off?

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Speaker 3: Why don't you take off one day off? Son of

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Speaker 3: a bitch.

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Speaker 1: I had surgery on Monday, and I was like, so,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking i'll be back by Wednesday, and they were like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like yeah.

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Speaker 3: Why don't we go ahead and review that situation, young lady.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been very quiet. No news people are going

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Speaker 1: to be listening this Monday morning. But I think first

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Speaker 1: thing we should be talking about is this huge victory

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Speaker 1: in France. Fash is a got punched in the face

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Speaker 1: yet again, Mollie.

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Speaker 3: Here's the thing that I find the most interesting about

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Speaker 3: those results. I just spoke to an overseas reporter about

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Speaker 3: an hour ago and she said, well, it was expected

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Speaker 3: in England that the Conservatives would be blown out, but

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Speaker 3: it wasn't expected in France. And I said, one of

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Speaker 3: the great tricks of the global right is to convince

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Speaker 3: people that their weak bad hand is a royal flush

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Speaker 3: and that they're always winning, they're always ahead, and always

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Speaker 3: they're always in control of the situation, and they're really not.

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Speaker 3: And so what we saw in France was I think

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Speaker 3: very telling that Macron was able to manage his own

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Speaker 3: internal dynamics in his party get people who were not

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Speaker 3: unified to understand that the threat they were facing required

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Speaker 3: them all to come together. And I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 3: that's a lesson that could be applied in other nations.

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Speaker 3: I'm struggling to think of one at the moment, but

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Speaker 3: it did sort of wrap. It did inspire me a

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Speaker 3: bit that the good guy side of the equations and

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Speaker 3: arguments doesn't have to suck.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that also. One of the things

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Speaker 1: about France is that the polls were again overstated. The

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Speaker 1: fascists understated the normals, and we saw that in the

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Speaker 1: UK too, like these sure, you know, they're trying to

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Speaker 1: make up for the surprise of Brexit or the surprise

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Speaker 1: of Trump by sort of juicing the numbers to be

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Speaker 1: more pro Trump or pro Brexit. I think an important

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Speaker 1: lesson here.

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Speaker 3: The idea that the minority is the majority is central

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Speaker 3: to an awful lot of authoritarian movements and fascist movements

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Speaker 3: and right wing politics globally, and has been so for

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Speaker 3: a long time. And you did see that. You saw

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Speaker 3: that they try to celebrify most of their people. Now.

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Speaker 3: So in France, it wasn't cranky old right winger daughter

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Speaker 3: of cranky old right winger Marine Lapin. It was young

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Speaker 3: sexy Jordan Bardilla. Look at it's so beautiful. I mean,

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Speaker 3: some of these people who are playing this game of

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Speaker 3: our people are always twelve feet tall, covered in solid gold, heroic, brilliant,

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Speaker 3: perfect geniuses, and the left are incompetent blah blah blah.

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Speaker 3: Well so in two races now in Europe and two

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Speaker 3: of the largest Western democracies, we have seen that again.

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Speaker 3: When confronted with an existential threat, the left sometimes says, oh,

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Speaker 3: wait a minute, we can settle our family business a

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Speaker 3: little later. Let's go kill bad guys first.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and by kill, we don't mean kill, we mean win.

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Speaker 1: At the ballad box because I don't want anyone cutting.

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Speaker 3: Well, ye call me crazy, but Mark Robinson down in

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Speaker 3: North Carolina, it's like I want to count bodies and

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Speaker 3: stuck them up and then eat them. Now I'm skipping

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Speaker 3: eat in city, eat them partner.

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Speaker 1: Let's not take our cues from Mark Robinson. No, cannibalism

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Speaker 1: is strictly an RFPA junior thing.

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Speaker 4: Go on, I have tasted the long pig Molly, and

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Speaker 4: I will never be the same. Why do you think

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Speaker 4: I'm opposed to all this anti vaccent Jesus exact right.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't want to eat and continue. Yes, I hate

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Speaker 1: to be the grown up here, but it really does

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Speaker 1: feel like there is a real salient and important point

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Speaker 1: that you're making here, Rick Wilson, which is that the

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Speaker 1: bad guys puff themselves up and make it so the

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Speaker 1: good guys think they're gonna lose.

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Speaker 3: If I'm going to use a southernism, they're a lot

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Speaker 3: like a nose a hognose snake in Florida. Hognose snake's

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Speaker 3: perfectly harmless, all right, but when the hognose is threatened,

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Speaker 3: it puffs its face up and looks like a rattlesnake.

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Speaker 3: So They're always trying to make themselves puff up and

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Speaker 3: look like a rattlesnake. They're always trying to make you afraid.

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Speaker 3: They're always trying to make you feel like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: these guys have got so many advantages, and they do

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Speaker 3: represent the majority of the and they never do. Trump

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Speaker 3: Ism is a failed ideology with the general public. If

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Speaker 3: we didn't have the electoral college system another subject for

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Speaker 3: another day, in this country, trumpism would be utterly irrelevant.

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Speaker 3: It's about like flat Earth is in terms of hard numbers.

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Speaker 3: But because we have the situation we have with our

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Speaker 3: electoral college system, trump ism is viable enough to be

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Speaker 3: viable in enough places to roll up the numbers. But again,

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Speaker 3: what you're seeing is they're like a hog nosed snake.

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Speaker 3: They're trying to pretend that they're stronger than they are,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of people, a lot of our friends

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Speaker 3: on the left, buy into that illusion. And I spend

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Speaker 3: a lot of my day, and I know you spend

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Speaker 3: a lot of your day walking them back from the

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Speaker 3: cliffs saying no, no, Donald Trump cannot get four fat

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Speaker 3: thosand three hundred and ninety two electoral college votes. There

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Speaker 3: aren't that many.

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Speaker 1: But they said, there were, and I'm afraid we don't

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Speaker 1: know how to.

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Speaker 3: Do you know what? You all know how to do this?

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Speaker 3: They look, guys, it is even about left and right.

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Speaker 3: This is about going out and treating races as they

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Speaker 3: should be treated. Work with the things that work for

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Speaker 3: you and your campaign, do the things you have to

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Speaker 3: do to win over the middle. The edge cases on

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Speaker 3: either side are never as strong as you think. And

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Speaker 3: that was the secret sauce in the UK this week, right.

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Speaker 1: But I also think, and again you've said this to

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Speaker 1: me before, actually I have two things I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about. First is the thing you always say to

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Speaker 1: me that has been drilled into my brain now, which

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Speaker 1: is elections are a referendum on the incumbent. If you

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Speaker 1: make this a referendum on Donald J. Trump, you win.

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Speaker 3: That is correct, and that is what this election can

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Speaker 3: and must be. There is no alternative. You have to

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Speaker 3: make it about Trump. If it's about Joe Biden or

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Speaker 3: any Democrat. Frankly, our chances of winning are a lot lower.

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Speaker 3: If this election is a choice about Donald Trump or America,

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Speaker 3: America is going to win. But without that choice on

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Speaker 3: the table, it is not as easy for voters to

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Speaker 3: go into the voting with and say, Okay, I know

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Speaker 3: what this is. It's not how many parts per billion

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Speaker 3: of carbon are going to be the atmosphere, or or

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Speaker 3: is it six weeks, twelve weeks or thirty weeks for

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Speaker 3: an abortion. It's none of the policy stuff. It's all

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Speaker 3: about the fundamental. Do you want a country that looks

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Speaker 3: like Donald Trump in the future? Do you want to

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Speaker 3: see a country where he keeps his campaign promises? And

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Speaker 3: if you think that country is a country you want

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Speaker 3: to live in, well I can't help you. I can't

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Speaker 3: change your mind about that, but I can make the

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Speaker 3: argument over and over again that trump Ism is disconnected

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Speaker 3: from two thirds of the population. A lot of the

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Speaker 3: things he wants to do if he's elected president again are.

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Speaker 1: Deeply, profoundly unpopular.

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Speaker 3: Exactly right, Molly, exactly right.

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Speaker 1: I'm working on a piece for my Vanity Fair column

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Speaker 1: about this project twenty twenty five, and you know I've

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Speaker 1: written about it. Jesse and I did a YouTube series

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Speaker 1: about it which is going to drop soon, and so

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Speaker 1: we've spent a lot of time talking about it in interviewing

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Speaker 1: people about it. And one of the things that is

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Speaker 1: so interesting about it, besides the fact that it invokes

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Speaker 1: the Comstock Act to prevent the mailing of abortion pills.

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Speaker 1: It defines marriage as biblical whatever is defined in the Bible.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's very Christian nationalists, and it wants to

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Speaker 1: regulate IVF. And what I think is so interesting about

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Speaker 1: Project twenty from five? And you tell me if you

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Speaker 1: think I'm wrong. A lot of times Trump, when something

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Speaker 1: comes up that's bad, he'll say, damn right, I did it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did it, Yeah, I do it again, you know.

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Speaker 1: And on this he's like, I have nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with this. I don't even know what this is.

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Speaker 3: So I wrote a piece over the weekend called Trump's

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Speaker 3: Project twenty twenty five lies. The media is not seeing

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Speaker 3: the forest for the lies. Right. My opening line is,

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Speaker 3: when Donald Trump denies something, you should always take it

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Speaker 3: as a full confession of his absolute guilt. Right. I

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Speaker 3: didn't sleep with Stormy Daniels porn star. No I didn't.

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Speaker 3: That means he did sleep with Stormy Daniels the porn star,

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Speaker 3: maybe for only forty five seconds or so, but he did, right.

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Speaker 3: And this thing with Project twenty twenty five. And I

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Speaker 3: have to say our old alumni website, The Daily Beast

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Speaker 3: had a piece that actually got to the guts of it.

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Speaker 3: Trump ripped for denying Project twenty twenty five connections despite

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Speaker 3: the evidence. So I went and I wrote down just

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Speaker 3: like a half a dozen of people that I could

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Speaker 3: pull up from memory that I know we're involved in

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Speaker 3: Project twenty twenty five because this thing is and Trump's

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Speaker 3: people I heard about this on Friday. Trump's people were

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Speaker 3: bragging to reporters and bragging to political activists on Friday. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we got the media to write the headline we wanted.

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Speaker 3: We got his headline in this Trump denies connection to

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Speaker 3: Project twenty twenty five, right, And most of the stories

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Speaker 3: might have gotten to it, like on paragraph nine, but

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Speaker 3: most of those stories are page A, eight, A, fifteen whatever.

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Speaker 3: The New York Times. The New York Times, as of

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Speaker 3: the time we're recording this, has yet to do a

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Speaker 3: story about the fact that Donald Trump is denying Project

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. But they have posted today twelve separate

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Speaker 3: stories about unnamed junior aides to Joe Biden who say

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Speaker 3: he's senile and must and must go right right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the.

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Speaker 3: Problem, you know what, guys. I try not to do

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Speaker 3: media bashing I really do, because we are part of

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Speaker 3: that universe. I try not to. But the frenzy in

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Speaker 3: Washington right now, and folks, they are talking to fucking

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Speaker 3: interns at this point about what's going on. This has

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Speaker 3: become a game where junior staffers are like, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to make my bones now with whoever, whether it's you know,

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Speaker 3: Maggie or Jonathan or or or Peter Baker or who

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Speaker 3: they're all everyone there is leaking like a sieve. So

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Speaker 3: they seem like the cool kid. So they seem like

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Speaker 3: they're like, ah, yes, I'm the cynical and I'm twenty six,

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Speaker 3: but I'm cynical, so you should hear me out. I

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Speaker 3: mean the idea that the coverage ratio to on on

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Speaker 3: Trump and one of the most consequential and dangerous public

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Speaker 3: policy efforts in our history, versus a Washington parlor game

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Speaker 3: right about should he go? Should he still? Should day?

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Speaker 3: Should he go? And unfortunately for America, the idea that

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Speaker 3: the coverage is going to generate more clicks and more

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Speaker 3: TV and be in the in the hamster wheel, the

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Speaker 3: conveyor belt of the story, and it will somehow in

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Speaker 3: a certain way. I think it's wrong, but I do

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Speaker 3: think what it is is it's a common error on

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Speaker 3: the media. It's part a common error on the part

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Speaker 3: of a lot, a lot of all, a lot of Democrats,

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Speaker 3: a common error on the part of folks on the

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Speaker 3: left to believe that you can ever take a minute

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Speaker 3: off of the attack on Donald Trump. He's now had

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Speaker 3: a solid week where he's basically gotten to play golf.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he does love golf.

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Speaker 3: It's unforgivable.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm struck by in my own,

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Speaker 1: you know world, is just that it doesn't a decision

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Speaker 1: that's this enormous does not need to be made in

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Speaker 1: four days. You know, I'm in correct. I was on

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Speaker 1: television with this. He's actually a young staffer who works

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Speaker 1: who worked for two people, but his bona fides were

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Speaker 1: not great, and he was saying, you know, he's got

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Speaker 1: to drop out. We need him out yesterday. And it's

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Speaker 1: just that is not the way to deal with a

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Speaker 1: big decision like that. And I certainly always feel that

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Speaker 1: if it's urgent, it's probably the wrong decision.

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Speaker 3: Almost always, if I may quote the nineteen ninety five

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Speaker 3: documentary Gets Shorty, there's a scene where a guy says,

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Speaker 3: excuse me, bro, but who the fuck are you? I

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Speaker 3: get a lot of excuse me, bro, but who the

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Speaker 3: fuck are you right now from a lot of people

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Speaker 3: on both sides of the equation who have not been

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Speaker 3: in national campaigns, who have not been operatives in big

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Speaker 3: picture campaigns, who are in either policy jobs or administrative

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Speaker 3: jobs inside the administration or inside the sort of DC ecosystem,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of people who I think watched a

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Speaker 3: little too much West Wing or watched a little too

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Speaker 3: much House of Cards, and they think things work a

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Speaker 3: certain way, and you can magically just say that we're

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Speaker 3: going to do this trick where everyone will agree that

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Speaker 3: it's the right trick to do, and everyone will understand

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Speaker 3: why we're doing it, and it will work out perfectly, and

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Speaker 3: know one will leak it, fuck it up, make a mistake,

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Speaker 3: do something illegal, do something stupid, do something politically fatal.

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Speaker 3: All those things are actually the more likely outcome of

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Speaker 3: these things.

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Speaker 1: I actually wrote to Margaret Sullivan about this, and she said,

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Speaker 1: creating the news is not the job of good journalism,

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Speaker 1: which is to cover reality and the truth perfectly put right,

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Speaker 1: Creating the news is not the job of good journalism,

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Speaker 1: which is to cover the reality and the truth, and

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Speaker 1: I think that that is you know, we're trying. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you and I are on the opinion side, so it's

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Speaker 1: a bit different. But like you know, we are trying

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Speaker 1: as best we can to reflect what we see happening

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Speaker 1: and not in fact, to create what we think should happen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've said this from the beginning. I know

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Speaker 3: for a fact what my job and role and mission is.

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Speaker 3: It is to beat the fuck out of Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: It is to beat him and defeat him. My mission

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Speaker 3: is not to determine how the democratic internal dynamics work out,

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Speaker 3: because you know what, if it's Joe Biden, or if

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Speaker 3: it's Kamala Harris, or if it's any Rando pulled off

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Speaker 3: the fucking street, you know we're still going to have

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Speaker 3: to do as people in the pro democracy movement, it's

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Speaker 3: to go after Donald Trump every day. You can't give

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Speaker 3: him a day. There's only less than one hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty days left to go in this race. You can't

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Speaker 3: give him a day off. And we've given him now

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Speaker 3: a week because of a very self indulgent culture in

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Speaker 3: Washington politics and the media. And this isn't all Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: With this Shakespearean drama of Joe Biden. It's a lot

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Speaker 3: of it, and let's be really, really, really really honest

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Speaker 3: with ourselves. Is the desire of many, many people for novelty,

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Speaker 3: change and spectacle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I also think the media wants to stay relevant,

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Speaker 1: and we've not had the best time of it latelight.

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Speaker 3: No, I think that's true, and I think there I

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Speaker 3: think there are people at a certain major institution who've

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Speaker 3: taken their vendetta because they didn't get a private interview

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Speaker 3: with Joe Biden to a level that is now so obvious.

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Speaker 3: When I see a lot of magas retweeting stories from

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Speaker 3: that outlet, I wonder if anybody's figuring it out over there, like, oh, well, yes,

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Speaker 3: you know, when you write something for gourmet magazine, you

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Speaker 3: don't want it retweeted by Jeffrey Dahmer. Okay, this is

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Speaker 3: not where you want to be in the ecosystem. It's like,

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Speaker 3: it's not the good housekeeping seal of approval of your journalism.

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Speaker 3: When it's become a part of Trump World's ongoing propaganda efforts.

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Speaker 3: It is remarkable to me. And again, that source that

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Speaker 3: got the story back to me said, yeah, you know

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Speaker 3: what it was Chris Losovita and Tony Fabrizio and Susie

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Speaker 3: who went out and they polled Project twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: And that's why Trump dropped it. And that's why Trump

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Speaker 3: made the Platform Committee take out the abortion ban and

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Speaker 3: the RNC Platform Committee. And by the way, fun fact, MO,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this, but Russ Vaught.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Russ Vaught, I'm writing about him today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the craziest coincidence of all. But after he

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Speaker 3: finished writing Project twenty twenty five, he became the head

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Speaker 3: of the Republican Party's Platform Committee.

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Speaker 1: Sure, just what's a total coincidence? It's a complete coincidence,

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Speaker 1: all right, Rick Wilson, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Imagine meeting you here. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Mollie Spring is here, and I bet you are trying

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Speaker 1: to look fashionable. So why not pick up some fashionable

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Speaker 1: all new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news

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00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,880
Speaker 1: store with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,

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Speaker 1: and top bags. To grab some head to fastpolitics dot com.

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Speaker 2: Joe Connison is the editor of the National Memo and

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Speaker 2: author of the Longest con How Gripters, Swindlers and Frauds

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Speaker 2: hijacked American conservatism.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Joe.

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Speaker 5: It's great to be with you, Mollie.

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Speaker 1: The Longest Con is the story of how explain to

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Speaker 1: us what it is? Because I think I know, but

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Speaker 1: I want you to explain it to our listener.

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Speaker 6: So the Longest Con is an idea that actually my

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Speaker 6: wife Elizabeth had after reading an article by historian Rick Pearlstein.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you know Rick, Yes, who's a guest of

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Speaker 1: the Pod.

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Speaker 6: Brilliant guy who wrote an article for a little magazine

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Speaker 6: called The Baffler in twenty twelve called The Long Con.

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Speaker 6: And on the surface, it was kind of an examination

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Speaker 6: of the Romney campaign, which was full of dishonest garbage.

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Speaker 6: I mean, He's Romney has changed his image quite a

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Speaker 6: bit since then, but back in that campaign it was

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Speaker 6: pretty bad. Anyway, Rick, in that article sort of digressed

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Speaker 6: into the huge panoply of scams and cons and just

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Speaker 6: phony campaigns that he fell into because he had subscribed

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Speaker 6: to a bunch of conservative publications and so these were

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Speaker 6: get rich quick schemes and miracle cures for cancer and

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Speaker 6: buy gold at an inflated price, all of these things.

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Speaker 1: So the things that Alex Jones sells.

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Speaker 6: Yes, right him of the big supplements, all of that

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Speaker 6: stuff that represents millions of dollars in profits to the right.

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Speaker 6: I looked at that and she said, you know what,

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Speaker 6: there's a lot more to this, and she was right.

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Speaker 6: So I spent a few years writing a book about

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Speaker 6: that con and I of course give tribute to Rick

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Speaker 6: in the introduction. But what Rick observed back then, which

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Speaker 6: I think is really true, is that it's no longer possible,

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Speaker 6: and it hasn't been for a long time, to separate

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Speaker 6: the con the grift, from the conservative message and the

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Speaker 6: conservative movement at this point. And this is the reason

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Speaker 6: that it appealed to me so much as a book project,

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Speaker 6: is that it really explains a lot about how we

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Speaker 6: have Trump at the head of all of it.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 6: Trump is the grifter, our excellence. He's the king of

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Speaker 6: the convent. That is why he is so acceptable to

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Speaker 6: them leading a movement. You know, back when he first

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Speaker 6: ran for president in twenty fifteen, when he was running

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Speaker 6: National Review did a series of expose as about Trump University,

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Speaker 6: which is an enormous scam. He was forced to cough

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Speaker 6: up a lot of money to pay people back.

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Speaker 5: Because he had ripped them off so badly.

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Speaker 6: Now the National Review now thinks it's fine to have

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Speaker 6: this scrift as president. And why well, they feel they

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Speaker 6: have no choice whatever it is. But in fact their

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Speaker 6: whole movement is infected with us, and once in a

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Speaker 6: while you'll see them reflect on that in conservative magazines

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Speaker 6: or blog posts, substacks all of that. There are a

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Speaker 6: few of them, Eric Erickson, you know, I'm sure your

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Speaker 6: listeners have heard of Jim Garritty at National mL bemoan.

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Speaker 6: The fact that there are so many conservatives ripping off

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Speaker 6: other conservatives, usually old people who can be duped if

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Speaker 6: they're say things. I mean, the whole thing is so appalling. Anyway,

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Speaker 6: I decided to go back and try to figure out

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Speaker 6: how this all began, How the sort of moral fiber

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Speaker 6: of conservatism began to disappear, Because in olden times, molly

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Speaker 6: Conservatism was a movement of moral probity, you know, or

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Speaker 6: at least it was supposed to be. It was supposed

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Speaker 6: to believe and civic virtue and morality. And when you

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Speaker 6: look at the scams and cons that they're pulling now constantly,

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Speaker 6: you know that's all gone. So how did that happen?

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Speaker 6: Like when did that happen? When did that begin? And

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Speaker 6: how did it develop? And so I go through a

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Speaker 6: lot of that, and you know, as a kind of

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Speaker 6: conceit really I start the book with Roy Cohne, who was,

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Speaker 6: as you know, Trump's mentor and lawyer and role model.

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Speaker 6: And the first chapter is called the role Model and

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Speaker 6: it's about Roy Cohen, and it tells a lot about Roy,

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Speaker 6: who I knew personally a bit.

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Speaker 1: Oh you did, what did you think of Roy Cohen?

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Speaker 5: He was a very bad man.

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Speaker 1: No, I know what Roy Cohen? I mean, the Jongs

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Speaker 1: have hated Roy Cohen, and the fast have hated ronco

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Speaker 1: Generations like John pat Hornz. This is a generational Yes,

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Speaker 1: my family as well. But how did you know him?

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Speaker 3: So?

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Speaker 6: I was years ago a reporter at the Village Voice,

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Speaker 6: and at that time Roy was quite powerful in New

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Speaker 6: York politics. He controlled a wing of the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 6: a small wing, but a wing of the Democratic Party

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Speaker 6: in New York City, specifically Manhattan, and he used it

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Speaker 6: to gain influence from judges and from city hall and elsewhere.

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Speaker 6: His dad had been a judge in the Bronx and

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Speaker 6: a Democratic power broker back in the days of FDR

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Speaker 6: so Roy had sort of inherited some connections and power,

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Speaker 6: and he sort of leveraged both parties to his advantage

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Speaker 6: by then, and he found ways to suck money out

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Speaker 6: of the system that were just enormous scams. But I

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Speaker 6: dated even back to when he was working for Senator McCarthy,

434
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 6: and he and a man named David Shine, who he

435
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 6: put on the staff of McCarthy's Red Hunting Committee, took

436
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 6: a junket to Europe, supposedly to find subversive books in

437
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 6: United States Information Service libraries, but really it was just

438
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 6: a junket for these two young men to romp around

439
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 6: Europe together in fancy hotels. A grift, a scam, And

440
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 6: so I begin the book with that because I think

441
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 6: it's not just a funny story, but it tells something

442
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 6: about the beginnings of a decline in morality and probity

443
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 6: and integrity and the right.

444
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 1: I've read a bunch of books that have made different

445
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 1: cases about how the right God here and your thesis

446
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: is basically the right God here through scams.

447
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 6: Well, I mean it's not just scams, it's how can

448
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 6: you work a scam? And one of the ways that

449
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 6: they learned to work the scam was through exciting people's hatred.

450
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 6: So that probably fits into some of the other theories

451
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 6: about the development of the right that you've been reading

452
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 6: about that they discovered, as Roger Stone said, that hate

453
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 6: is as a more powerful motivator than love in politics.

454
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 6: That's what they really believe that, and there's some evidence

455
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 6: that it's true, at least for some people. And if

456
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 6: you can prey on people's hate and paranoia, you can

457
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 6: often dupe them into sending you money. And this is

458
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 6: what was discovered way back when by a man named

459
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 6: Richard Vigeri, who was the king of direct mail back

460
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 6: in the pre internet era. He was a young fundraiser

461
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 6: for right wing causes, and he realized that after the

462
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 6: Goldwater campaign, there was now a list.

463
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 3: There was a.

464
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 6: List of millions of people who had donated money to

465
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 6: the Goldwater campaign, and this list was in the hands

466
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 6: of the Clerk of the House, that's how things worked

467
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 6: in those days. This was in nineteen sixty four sixty five,

468
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 6: and he sent some women, of course, to go into

469
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 6: the capitol and copy down the names from that list,

470
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 6: and then they put them on magnetic tape and suddenly, bingo,

471
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 6: you had a list of people who were very right wing,

472
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 6: who believed all kinds of crazy stuff that you could

473
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 6: tell him, and who were I mean, Goldwater only won

474
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 6: the states of the Confederacy, right. A few states that

475
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 6: he where he prevailed were Confederate states. So there was

476
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 6: always a racial element to this. And by preying on

477
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 6: people's paranoia and their fear of communism, their fear of minorities,

478
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 6: their fear of all kinds of things, you could get

479
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 6: them to send money if you knew how to write

480
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 6: a direct mail piece that would excite their fears and

481
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 6: they're and their hatreds. Then the next level of the

482
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 6: scam is that you solicit money from people and then

483
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 6: you spend very little of the money on the cause

484
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 6: or campaign that you're telling them that they're collecting it for,

485
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 6: and most of it goes to in Vigori's case, you know,

486
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 6: prospecting for new suckers. In other cases it goes to

487
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 6: quote unquote overhead. But this is the this is the

488
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 6: root of the scam, and then it branches out into

489
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 6: many different forms.

490
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 1: So give us some of those forms.

491
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 6: Well, so some of the forms are Jerry Folwell was

492
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 6: a good example. This is how you know you saw

493
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 6: the beginning of the whole Fallwell Empire and Liberty University.

494
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 6: He got a hold of an email list of evangelical

495
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 6: ministers by telling the guy who had the list and

496
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 6: an old minister who didn't really believe that politics and

497
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 6: religion belong together, that he was going to use it

498
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 6: to create some sort of the Notre Dame of evangelical life,

499
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 6: and what he was really going to do with it

500
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 6: was start them moral majority and do an email prospect

501
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 6: because he believed this was a way to make a

502
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 6: lot of money. They've done this in many different ways.

503
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 6: There are all kinds of things that they sell to

504
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 6: people now, especially on the internet, but they know they

505
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 6: sell them over priced gold because they convince people that

506
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 6: we're about to go into a depression and it doesn't

507
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 6: matter what's really happening in the economy if you capture

508
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 6: people's attention. Hannity has done this a lot. I mean

509
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 6: a lot of Fox personalities have gotten involved in this.

510
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 6: Or you sell them penny stocks because you believe you

511
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 6: can make them believe that this is the next big thing,

512
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 6: and you believe them because you share their ideology, so

513
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 6: you tend to believe what they tell you. And they're

514
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 6: on TV or they're on the radio or both, and

515
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,719
Speaker 6: you know you trust them because they're conservatives. Is a

516
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 6: merciless things and they've fleeced a lot of people money. Trump,

517
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 6: of course, is the is you know, the ultimate version

518
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 6: of this but far from the original.

519
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: Yes, but he's the culmination of it.

520
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 3: It is.

521
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: Can you explain to us, as someone who worked at

522
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: the Village Boys around the time Trump was learning all

523
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: these things from Roy Cohen, if you could sort of

524
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: sum up what you think. I mean, I hate to

525
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: even ask this question because I'm so bored with Trump,

526
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: but since he could theoretically be our next president, I

527
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: feel like we have to talk about him. I mean,

528
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: can you explain to us what you think this sort

529
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: of ethos is because you.

530
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 6: Knew him, then it's the anti ethos. I mean, Roy

531
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 6: was a person who not only found ways corrupt ways

532
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 6: to steal money from the city treasury, you know, even

533
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 6: been like really petty stuff like cash from the parking

534
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 6: violations bureau. That he had the sort of mafia types

535
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 6: funneling thim. You know, he was a mob lawyer too,

536
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 6: so the sort of aura of the mob around Trump

537
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 6: is not accidental. Roy was the lawyer for real mobsters,

538
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 6: and they used to use his office for meetings because

539
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 6: they thought they would not be surveilled by the FBI.

540
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 3: There.

541
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 6: This was the world that Trump, you know, was sort

542
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 6: of initiated into and felt, you know, was exciting for him.

543
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 6: And you know what he learned from Roy was you

544
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 6: don't pay taxes, You don't pay the people who work

545
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 6: for you unless you have to. You go into litigation

546
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 6: with the attitude that you can just draw it out

547
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 6: and torture people and make them leave you alone. And

548
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 6: it's all about exercising power. It has very little to

549
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 6: do with ideology. It's just it's hedonism and power and

550
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 6: accumulating money. And I think there's a part of it

551
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 6: where they also like being famous. I mean, Roy loved

552
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 6: to be in the tabloids, so did Trump. And Roy

553
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 6: put Trump in the tabloids and on the media. And

554
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 6: that's one of the reasons why, you know, he loved

555
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 6: Roy Cone up until the point where he didn't. When

556
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 6: Roy was dying of AIDS, Trump abandoned him sort of notoriously.

557
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: Because he was gay or because he needed him.

558
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 6: Because he didn't want to be associated with it. There

559
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 6: was a stigma attached, and he just was like, I

560
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 6: don't need this. And also at the time Roy was

561
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 6: under was about to have his law license taken away.

562
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: But Roy was like often about to have his long

563
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: life it's taken away.

564
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 6: It finally happened. I mean, it happened just before he died.

565
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 5: In fact.

566
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he was able to punt it many times.

567
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 6: He did because you see, Molly, this is the reason

568
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 6: I talk about Roy in this first chapter, aside from

569
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 6: the connection with Trump, is that Roy was tolerated and

570
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 6: celebrated by the right, even though they all knew what

571
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 6: a dirty scumbag he was. Okay, they didn't care, but

572
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 6: people like Bill Buckley and Bill Sapphire and Abe Rosenthal

573
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 6: at the times, and lots and lots of respectable people

574
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 6: celebrated Rey publicly. They had big events where they would

575
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 6: toast him and you know, celebrate him and be happy

576
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 6: that he had gotten away with everything he'd gotten away

577
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 6: with and expressed that their friendship and.

578
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 5: Approval of him.

579
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 6: And on some level, what that means is it's okay

580
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 6: to be like him, It's okay to do the things

581
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 6: he does because there's no social sanction attached to it, right,

582
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 6: it doesn't matter. You can swindle your clients, you can steal,

583
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 6: you can lie the way he did so much when

584
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 6: he was working for McCarthy. It just doesn't matter. Because

585
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 6: he's powerful, he has connections in the media.

586
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 5: You know, he was very.

587
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 6: Close to sign new House was my boss when I

588
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 6: worked at Conde Nast, super powerful, you know, publishing mogul,

589
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 6: and he had many powerful friends like that, and they

590
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 6: approved of, you know, his absolutely shocking lack of morality

591
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 6: and integrity. And I think Trump looked at that and said, gee,

592
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 6: I could be like that. I'm not going to be

593
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 6: punished for anything.

594
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: So you think New York in the eighties made Trump worse?

595
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 6: Oh, undoubtedly. I mean I think the connection with Roy

596
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 6: Cone made Trump war was I would say, you know,

597
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 6: I think Trump's dad. If you talk to Mary Trumps,

598
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 6: I'm sure you have, you would know that Fred Trump

599
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 6: was not exactly you know, a paragon of integrity either

600
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 6: or decency.

601
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

602
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 6: So you know, there's a lot that happened to Trump's

603
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 6: character before he met Roy, but I think Roy took

604
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 6: him in an even darker direction. It's not an original

605
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 6: observation by me. I just happened to know them because

606
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 6: I was covering them, you know, in the eighties, I

607
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 6: was writing about them. My partner at the Village Voice,

608
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 6: my writing partner, Wayne Barrett, is the og of Trump Lore.

609
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: So right, right, right right.

610
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 6: I was around when all that was happening, and I

611
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 6: saw it up close. I've known Trump a long time.

612
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: What do you think the way to defeat Trump is?

613
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 6: I tend to agree with our mutual friend George Conway, who.

614
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: Wrote the introduction to this book, who.

615
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 6: Wrote the forward to my book. Yes, and it's very good.

616
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 6: I'm happy to say he loves the book. Even though

617
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 6: we were once swords drawn enemies back in the day.

618
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 6: Now we're friends, which is great.

619
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I love George and we're friends and we

620
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: talk all the time. But the road to how he

621
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: got here as lined with a lot of the people

622
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: who are now the great friends of democracy, contractually obligated

623
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: by being Howard fast granddaughter to say things like that.

624
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: But yes, continue on.

625
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 5: Yes, well, I understand that. I get that.

626
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 6: When I was at The New York Observer, I was

627
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 6: then executive editor, I also wrote a column every week,

628
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 6: and so I did reporting, and I was reporting on

629
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 6: Clinton and the Paula Jones case and all of that,

630
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 6: And one of the things that I discovered was that

631
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 6: there was a bunch of lawyers, right wing lawyers, who

632
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 6: were secretly advising Paula Jones in her lawsuit against Clinton

633
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 6: and trying to make sure that the lawsuit didn't get

634
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 6: settled for political reasons. So one of them was Anne Caulter,

635
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 6: another was a guy named Paul Rosenswick who's gotten.

636
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 5: To be better known lately.

637
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 6: And one of them at the leadership of that group

638
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 6: was George Conway. The third who was then a partner

639
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 6: at Waktel Lipton, a big democratic law firm in New York.

640
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: Making millions of dollars.

641
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, as a tobacco lawyer, which isn't the rightest episode.

642
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 1: Yes, some of that money he did donate to Joe Biden,

643
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: so credit where credit is due.

644
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 6: He did actually a lot. He's a different guy now

645
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 6: in my opinion. But anyway, I exposed what they were

646
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 6: doing in The Observer, which led to further exposure in

647
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 6: the New York Times and got George in a fair

648
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 6: amount of trouble. And I was trying to track him down,

649
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 6: and I put him on the front page of the

650
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 6: Observer and his law partners at Walktel did not like

651
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 6: this at all.

652
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: No, now, a lot of liberals at walked out.

653
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, he wouldn't really talk to me. I mean he

654
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 6: called me once back when I was trying to track

655
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 6: him down. But anyway, so flash forward many years and

656
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 6: he and I are sort of following each other on Twitter.

657
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 6: I don't know exactly why, except I thought he was

658
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 6: really funny and I liked what he was saying. I

659
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 6: don't know why he followed me. And it comes time

660
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 6: my book is finished, you know, the draft is done,

661
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 6: and again my wife says to me, you should ask

662
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 6: Conway to write the forward. And I said, Conway, Conway

663
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 6: hates me. Anyway, I got in touch with him and

664
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 6: he came in and we had a drink and we

665
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 6: got along very well, talked about old times, and I said, George,

666
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 6: I need your advice. I need a never Trump Republican

667
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 6: to write the forward to this book, which is about

668
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 6: the right. And he looked at me, he's right in

669
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 6: the eye, and he said, do you want me to

670
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 6: do it?

671
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: I was like, well, yes, Joe, thank you so much

672
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: for joining us. This is great.

673
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 5: Oh it's really a pleasure. Molly.

674
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 6: I admire you greatly and really appreciate you.

675
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.

676
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: Christina Sinson Ramirez is the president of next Gen America.

677
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Christina, I so tell us what

678
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: do you think the Biden campaign should be doing.

679
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 7: This is the first election cycle in our ten year

680
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 7: track record of reaching out and connecting with millions of

681
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 7: young voters that we fully see from the presidency down

682
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 7: and understanding of just how important young voters are. And

683
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 7: there is a lot that the Biden administration has done

684
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 7: that they have delivered for young voters, but there's a disconnect.

685
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: A lot of young ters don't know a lot of that.

686
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 7: So this is the administration that's actually gotten the most

687
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 7: progressive policy accomplished and move forward in my lifetime, including

688
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 7: the Inflation Reduction Act, the single largest investment by any

689
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 7: country on the planet to tackle the climate crisis, historic

690
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 7: gun safety legislation, massive student debt cancelation. These gains were

691
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 7: all fought in one by young people also turning out

692
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 7: in record numbers, and so I think the administration needs

693
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 7: to be telling that story. And then we're also seeing

694
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 7: a lot of young people not actually know foolly who

695
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 7: Donald Trump is because some of them were just ten

696
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 7: years old, right, rates or just to give people a

697
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 7: frame of reference. You know, if you are eighteen years

698
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 7: old now or will be eighteen in November, you were

699
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 7: ten years old when Donald Trump was first elected, and

700
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 7: so if you had good parents, they probably shielded you

701
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 7: from the sounds of crying babies being ripped from their mothers,

702
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 7: from the site of heather Hire being run over by

703
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 7: white supremacists, and then are present and calling them very

704
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 7: fine people on both sides, and then lastly saying that

705
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 7: he liked to grab women by the pussy.

706
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: Those are all things you may not know.

707
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 7: And so there's a lot of education I think that

708
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 7: the Biden administration and allies need to be doing to

709
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 7: educate young people about that track record. They many don't

710
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 7: know about.

711
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: So what does that look like? I mean, how do

712
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: you reach young voters?

713
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 7: So for us at next time, this is you know,

714
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 7: young voters gen Z plus millennials. Right, we go up

715
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 7: to eighteen to thirty five, some people just eighteen to

716
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 7: twenty nine. This is the largest generational voting block, and

717
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 7: so most of them get their news from social media.

718
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 7: It's really for us, we're going to We're already on

719
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 7: campuses across eight states, key battleground states, but we're going

720
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 7: to be on one hundred and twelve college and community

721
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 7: college campuses. We're already having conversations with young people in person,

722
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 7: and then we're working with hundreds of influencers to reach

723
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 7: and engage young people as authentic messengers because it's not

724
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 7: all up to the candidate or the campaign. And a

725
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 7: lot of young people, even though they overwhelmingly vote for

726
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 7: Democrats and progressives, also see themselves as independents and so

727
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 7: for them, what can be often more moving is a

728
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 7: message form one of their peers. So those college campuses

729
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 7: that we're on, we're also working with first time ever

730
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 7: college athletes that can now use their likeness and image

731
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 7: from the school's soccer star or football quarterback.

732
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: You name it.

733
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 7: We're trying to engage those folks to also reach people

734
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 7: on their platforms.

735
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a big question. Like we've seen some

736
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: reporting where there's been you know, Biden is not in

737
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: good shape with the young people, and they're mad at

738
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: him about not canceling student debt the way they wanted

739
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: it canceled, or they're mad at him because of Gaza,

740
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: or they're mad at him because of COVID. Do you

741
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 1: actually think that's true or do you think it's more

742
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: complicated than that.

743
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 7: I think it's a little more complicated than that. I

744
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 7: think overwhelmingly, if you look at twenty two and where

745
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 7: we were around this time, Biden was also underwater with

746
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 7: young voters. He was not young voters candidate of choice.

747
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 7: I like to say it was the other older white guy,

748
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 7: Bernie Sanders.

749
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: One of my favorite old white guys. Yes, and he

750
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: came on this podcast, and I think it was the

751
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: happiest he's ever been in an interview. Well that must

752
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: be you, Molly, that said him at ease. No, it's

753
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: because my grandfather was a famous communist who he like

754
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: loved anyway, Sorry, go on, Yes.

755
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 7: But he was very popular with young people, right. Bernie

756
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 7: Sanders and the Biden administration understood that they were going

757
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 7: to have to appease young voters, and they did right.

758
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 7: They promised to take action on climate change, on student debt,

759
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 7: on big issues that young people cared about. And we've

760
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 7: seen his numbers rise with young people. But we're at

761
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 7: a place again where young people are not super excited

762
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 7: about their choices. However, I think as we get closer

763
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 7: to the election, and we spend the time and money

764
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 7: educating and reaching young people about what's at stake this election. Overwhelmingly,

765
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 7: I think poles are indicators of people's sentiments. Don't necessarily

766
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 7: think especially holes with young voters have aligned the last

767
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 7: few elections on where their behavior is. So at next Gen,

768
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 7: we understand polling as the way we do it and

769
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,720
Speaker 7: the way we look at it in our own polling

770
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 7: is where are there opportunities and challenges that we have

771
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 7: to address versus what does this say about what's going

772
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 7: to happen on election day? Because you read the headlines

773
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 7: from the New York Times, Washington Post, you name it.

774
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 7: Over the last few election cycles, each election cycle twenty eighteen,

775
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 7: twenty twenty, twenty twenty two, it's all doom and gloom

776
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 7: about how young voters aren't excited about the candidates that

777
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 7: they're likely to not turn out election happens. We've had

778
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 7: the three highest youth voter turnouts the last three election cycles,

779
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 7: and overwhelmingly for Democrats.

780
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: No, I mean for sure, and obviously despite his being

781
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: perhaps I'm sexy, Joe Biden has really delivered a lot

782
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: of wins for progressives exactly.

783
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 7: I think sometimes in progressive spaces, which is usually when

784
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 7: most young people, lies follows as far as the policies

785
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 7: that they care about in the world that they want

786
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 7: to see created in the government they want to see,

787
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 7: we sometimes don't always recognize when we're actually winning. And

788
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 7: I think, Molly, you and I are old enough to

789
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 7: remember the Democratic Party of the nineties that was on

790
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 7: the wrong side.

791
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: I would say, of gay rights, many many progressives issues.

792
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 7: Yes, go on, gay rights, tax reform, criminal justice. They

793
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 7: were all on the wrong side of those issues. And

794
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 7: now fast forward, we have from Biden all the way

795
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 7: up and down right people saying that we needed to

796
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 7: tax the rich their fair share, that billionaires shouldn't pay

797
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 7: less percentage of taxes than hardworking, working class Americans. That

798
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 7: we have fully come to a place on many issues

799
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 7: where the Democratic Party of the nineties is no longer

800
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 7: the party of today. And so I think we need

801
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 7: to recognize, like, if you like that we've gotten student

802
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 7: debt cancelation, if you like that we got climate legislation,

803
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 7: but you were upset about not getting everything else you

804
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 7: want at home, means be upset, but make a political

805
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 7: calculation and choice about which elected official, you are more

806
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 7: likely to move. Keep organizing. Voting isn't the only way

807
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 7: we make change. It's the most basic thing we must do.

808
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 7: It's not the only thing we should do.

809
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: The thing I've been struck by with Biden world is

810
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: that the admin they have really been responsive to a

811
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: lot of wish list items for Democrats.

812
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 7: One hundred percent. I think about where we are on

813
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 7: student debt cancelation. You know, he had promised that he

814
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 7: was going to come in and do some student debt cancelation.

815
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 7: He tried to do ten thousand up to twenty thousand dollars,

816
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 7: depending on what kind of loan and income bracket people

817
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 7: were in. And then we've of course had the right

818
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 7: wing try and stop that with the right wing Supreme Court,

819
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 7: and they were successful. But the Biden administration didn't give up.

820
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 7: They kept figuring out ways to cancel student debt. They've

821
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 7: now canceled billions of dollars in student debt for nearly

822
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 7: five million Americans. I think of my good friend Brandon,

823
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 7: who did public interest law for the last ten years,

824
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 7: and he woke up and saw that his nearly two

825
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 7: hundred thousand dollars in student debt had been canceled by

826
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 7: the Biden administration is life changing. And if we look

827
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 7: at folks I know that have gotten solar panels or

828
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 7: electric cars that they were able to afford, middle class

829
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 7: folks that thought they could never afford that because of

830
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 7: the Inflation Reduction Act. Those are all things that were

831
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 7: one because the Biden administration was listening to and responding

832
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 7: to the demands and desires of young people.

833
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you talk to young people and you sort

834
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: of explain to them some of the stuff that maybe

835
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,359
Speaker 1: they missed, do they want to buy what you're selling? Yeah?

836
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 7: I think young people are you know, they're savvy consumers

837
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 7: on what they consume generally and then what they get behind.

838
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 7: And I think politics is no different for young people.

839
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,359
Speaker 7: But I think young people what we've seen the last

840
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 7: few elections, on what we saw in twenty twenty is

841
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 7: young people a lot of them said, I'm voting for Biden.

842
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 7: He wasn't necessarily my choice in the field of twenty

843
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 7: close candidates. But I agree with him more on where

844
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 7: he stands on women's rights and abortion. I agree with

845
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 7: him more about where he stands on the climate crisis.

846
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 7: I agree with him more about how he wants to

847
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 7: hold gun companies accountable for our gun violence epidemic, and

848
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 7: you can do that on many many issues. It's hard

849
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 7: when you look at what young people care about. There

850
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 7: is see much of any alignment whatsoever with Donald Trump

851
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 7: and the Republican Party for the majority of young people.

852
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 7: And I think young people, as we get closer to

853
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 7: the election and continue making that argument and trying to

854
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 7: reach them by the millions, they are savvy and will

855
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 7: make the right political calculation. But we also need to

856
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 7: understand that demographics are not destiny. I think Democrats make

857
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 7: that mistake a lot. They are simply a core ingredient

858
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 7: in the recipe for change. But we've got to organize,

859
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 7: reach out to and speak to that generation's pain and

860
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 7: power that they have.

861
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: If you're looking at young voters as a voting base,

862
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: what states are you the most optimistic about? You know,

863
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: young people have turned out in record numbers.

864
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 7: Young people are always generally have been the least likely

865
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 7: to be invested in are the most likely to show

866
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 7: up just on election day, and so we run blind.

867
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 7: Oftentimes we try and as many people as we can.

868
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 7: I think there are places where we feel generally more

869
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 7: hopeful Wisconsin looks good. Arizona looks you know, challenging in

870
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 7: its own ways. But also we have a great senatorial

871
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 7: candidate and Rubing Diego that speaks to young people in Latinos,

872
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 7: which is really important for that state's demographics. And then

873
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 7: in Pennsylvania. In Michigan are two other states. Michigan is

874
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 7: a state I think we need to make sure we

875
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 7: do the hard work and outreach for I think that

876
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 7: state is going to be very, very close, and I

877
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 7: think a lot of it could come down to young

878
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 7: people and making sure we spent the time and effort

879
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 7: and energy fully trying to reach them.

880
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean that is for sure. You know

881
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 1: a place where the war in the Middle East is

882
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: where voters are furious. Talk to me about Nevada. Nevada

883
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 1: is like one of those states where supposely this seni

884
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: candidate there, Jackie Rosen, is actually a little bit better

885
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: senate candidate than the last cycle, better at politics. I mean,

886
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: is there a down ballid effect? And talk to me

887
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: about Nevada.

888
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 7: You know, Nevada is one of the states that I

889
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 7: think we are concerned about right now. Again, polling is

890
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 7: not like an indicator of the election or the actual

891
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 7: outcome as an indicator of people's sentiments at that time.

892
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 7: But polling does show that we have work to do

893
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 7: across the board, including with young people. That I think

894
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 7: it's a population that has been hit hard by different

895
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 7: elements of recovering from COVID, that we see a really

896
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 7: strong need to be spoken to about the economic pain

897
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 7: that a lot of Americans are in. And I think

898
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 7: that what we need to lean on is how Democrats

899
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 7: and progressives really do have a different vision for the

900
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 7: future economically. Most Americans do agree that, especially young people,

901
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,920
Speaker 7: that we should be taxing the rich their fair share,

902
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 7: that we shouldn't just have a minimum wage, but a

903
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,439
Speaker 7: living wage, that women should be paid for equal work,

904
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 7: that people should be able to unionize right that young

905
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 7: people eighty eight percent of them support labor unions. There

906
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,919
Speaker 7: is only one party and one candidate at the top

907
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,839
Speaker 7: of the ticket that support those four issues, and that

908
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 7: is Joe Biden and Democrats. And what we saw from

909
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 7: Trump was a real vision for the top one percent

910
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 7: enacted from tax cuts for the most wealthy Americans to

911
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 7: trying to squash the power of labor unions. And that

912
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 7: will only if you thought Trump twenty sixteen was bad.

913
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:22,439
Speaker 1: You have no.

914
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 7: Idea how bad it will be Trump two point zero

915
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 7: for working people in this country.

916
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh for sure. So can you talk to us

917
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: about there's a lot of anxiety that Trump is winning

918
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: the Latino vote in a way that is unprecedented. Is

919
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: that true and if so, what does that mean.

920
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 7: My last job before running next to in the country's

921
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 7: largest youthful organization, I spent close to twenty years organizing

922
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 7: the Latino community in Texas for Saron workers' rights and

923
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 7: then mobilizing young Latinos to vote. And I remember after

924
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 7: twenty twenty getting asked a lot if Latinos were leaning

925
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 7: more Republican or were they Democrats. So I said, you know,

926
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 7: we need to understand the population is We're not necessarily

927
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 7: either Republicans or Democrats.

928
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 1: What we are is poor.

929
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 7: You know, we are the ethnic group that is the

930
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 7: least likely to go to college, the most likely to

931
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 7: die on the job, the least likely to make below

932
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 7: fifteen dollars an hour. And so when Canadas speak to

933
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 7: our deep economic pain and spend the time and money

934
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 7: outreaching to us, they win our vote over because we're

935
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 7: also we live at this duality where yes, many of

936
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 7: us are newly arrived to this country, and at the

937
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 7: same time, in places like Texas, we were part of

938
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 7: this country before it was even a construct.

939
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: The realities.

940
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 7: If you look at Bernie Sanders, he did amazingly well

941
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 7: with Latino voters and brought tons of new Latino voters

942
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 7: into the political process because he spent the time and

943
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 7: money and energy reaching out to them. Historically, both sides

944
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,839
Speaker 7: hadn't done an abysmal job of that, and I think

945
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 7: Republicans made a smart political calculation. That is, if we

946
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 7: go speak to Latino voters about economic issues and spend

947
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 7: the time and money on them, some Democrats have been

948
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 7: taking them for granted and that if we're the first

949
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 7: to outreach to them, they may come to our side.

950
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 7: And so that's what I see as I see that

951
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 7: Democrats to spend a lot more time and money speaking

952
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 7: to the economic realities of Latino voters. We are still

953
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 7: overwhelmingly Democratic voters, especially because we are young people. I

954
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 7: just see massive opportunity because our voting power mostly lies

955
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 7: with young people. We are also one of the youngest

956
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 7: ethnic group in the country. So the most common age

957
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 7: for white American is fifty five, for an African American

958
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 7: it's twenty seven, and for a Latino American it's eleven.

959
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 7: And today one in four American children are now actually Latino.

960
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 7: So what are we doing to go invest into that

961
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 7: community and their burgeoning power?

962
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: Cool? I love that though. That's so hopeful and exciting,

963
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: and I think that's a really good point. You need

964
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: to speak to people where they are make the case right.

965
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I think that young people there isn't

966
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 7: just you know, it's a huge demographic. We do everything

967
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 7: we can to try and each young people where they're at.

968
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 7: That for us as the largest det vote organization. Yes,

969
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 7: it's being on college and community college campuses, it's organizing

970
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 7: with influencers, it's organizing on dating apps, it's mobilizing our

971
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 7: tens of thousands of volunteers literally to send tens of

972
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 7: millions of calls and texts to young people. And even

973
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 7: our new thing we've started doing, which is we developed

974
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 7: an AI chatbot to organize on Discord and Twitch and

975
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 7: the gaming community, especially to focus on reaching young men.

976
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 7: We try and leave no stone unturned to reach young

977
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 7: people that are probably never going to watch a traditional

978
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 7: TV advertisement or radio advertisement. But make sure we're reaching

979
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 7: in them in all the other ways possible.

980
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: Yes, such a good point and so important and also

981
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: a little bit heartening, right I mean, and those voters

982
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,959
Speaker 1: are there for Joe Biden if he can connect with them,

983
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: right absolutely.

984
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 7: I think what we've seen is when you invest in

985
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 7: young people and spend the time and money outreaching to them,

986
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 7: they do turn out. When we started our organization ten

987
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 7: years ago with the idea that we could tackle the

988
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 7: climate crisis, the largest crisis of our time, by mobilizing

989
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 7: young people to turn out to vote, we were generally

990
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 7: laughed at that that was a really naive thing to

991
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 7: spend money on, that young people were not going to

992
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 7: turn out, that they were apathetic. Well it's ten years later,

993
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 7: we've seen the highest use going to turn out the

994
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 7: last few elections and the largest investment ever to tackle

995
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 7: the climate crisis. That is because of the power of

996
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 7: young people.

997
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: Thank you, Christina.

998
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 7: Thanks so much Molly for having me and for covering

999
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 7: the youth vote.

1000
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: No moment, Oh fuck on, Rick Wilson, what is your

1001
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: moment of fuckery?

1002
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 3: My moment of fuckery is that this week there is

1003
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: a absolute tidal wave, an onslaught of reporting about Joe Biden. Okay,

1004
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 3: let's just even say it's legitimate, or that it's journalism. Whatever.

1005
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 3: We'll argue that point some other day. But it is

1006
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 3: almost exclusively even in foreign newspapers and foreign media outlets,

1007
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 3: that in the release of the files, Donald Trump pops

1008
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 3: up in the Epsteine files being accused of having raped

1009
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 3: two girls to twelve year olds.

1010
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: Why didn't that get more mainstream media coverage? Is it

1011
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: not real? I don't understand.

1012
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 3: You know why they're not doing it. I'll tell you

1013
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 3: exactly why they know. If they run that story, they're

1014
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 3: going to get four thousand, good jillion tweets and emails

1015
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 3: and phone calls from Maugas saying We're gonna come burn

1016
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 3: down your building, wet you. That's why they're doing it, Okay,

1017
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 3: that's why they won't fucking cover it. And look, if

1018
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 3: you go back, you will not find me having a

1019
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 3: whole bunch of tweets over the years about the story

1020
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: that is alleged from these documents, because before it was

1021
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 3: only alleged. Now it is in the court filings. And

1022
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 3: I'm shocked that American reporters who are able to dig

1023
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 3: down and find a person who wrote on an airplane

1024
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 3: with Joe Biden once in twenty twenty, comparing him, he

1025
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 3: should say he thinks you should drop out. It's amazing

1026
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 3: to me. Not one of these people has fucking called

1027
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 3: Alex who Trump gave a job after the Epstein case

1028
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 3: because Alex Acosta got Jeffrey Epstein a plea bargain. This

1029
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 3: thing stinks on ice, the fact that nobody's talking about it,

1030
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 3: nobody's covering it, and I will point out that MAGA

1031
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 3: is very frequently ready to call anyone who disagrees with

1032
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 3: Donald Trump a pedophile, and now we have court testimony

1033
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 3: in which Donald Trump is a rape pedophile. I'm sorry,

1034
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: I find it outrageous fuckery. No one's covering this at scale.

1035
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: Do you want to know my moment of fuckery, Rick Wilson,

1036
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: I do. My momentive fuckery is Charlie Gasparino, who wrote

1037
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 1: a disgusting opinion piece in The New York Post where

1038
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: he said that Vice President Harris was a DEI hire,

1039
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 1: despite the fact that she was the age, that she

1040
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: was the second black female senator ever, that she is

1041
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:58,879
Speaker 1: a fucking brilliant, gifted or to our super amazing politician,

1042
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: great speaker, very smart lawyer, prosecuted the fake universities, was

1043
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: a leader in California, then went on to the Senate

1044
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,279
Speaker 1: and is the vice president and is very much a

1045
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: success in her own right. Meanwhile, Charlie Gasparino yet another

1046
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 1: mediocre white guy. He is our moment of fuck.

1047
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 3: Ray couldn't agree more. And anytime you hear the phrase

1048
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 3: DEI or CRT or the sixteen nineteen project come out

1049
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 3: of Omaga, it's the inward. That's it. That's what it is.

1050
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: It's the inWORD. Just think of it that way and

1051
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 3: you got.

1052
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: It, Yes, exactly, that's it. That's it. That's it for

1053
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday

1054
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

1055
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

1056
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1057
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.