Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Thank you very much, Charlie Pellett.
Speaker 1: Gotta say I'm eager to get to our next guest.
Speaker 1: I've been um doing a bunch of reading Jason about her.
Speaker 1: She began her job on March two as president of
Speaker 1: the Center for Talent Innovation. It's a fifteen year old
Speaker 1: nonprofit think tank. It's dedicated to diversity and inclusion in
Speaker 1: the workplace. She spent more than decade on Wall Street,
Speaker 1: including a Bank of America, Bank of America Merrill Lynch
Speaker 1: excuse me, where she led global equity asset management. She
Speaker 1: is also co chair of the Human Rights Campaign's National
Speaker 1: Business Advisory Council, and it's a form of diversity leaders
Speaker 1: from fortune companies. She's also founding executive member of Open Finance.
Speaker 1: It's a consortium of l g B, d Q leaders
Speaker 1: advancing inclusion across Wall Street. I feel like, Lenia Irvin,
Speaker 1: you represent so much at the conversations that we've been
Speaker 1: having about the last fourteen fifteen weeks and certainly in
Speaker 1: the last month. She joins us on the phone from
Speaker 1: New York City. Welcome welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you for
Speaker 1: having I have to say talk about timing year. I
Speaker 1: think roughly what four months in on your job. We've
Speaker 1: been dealing with the virus UM. Of course, the aftermath
Speaker 1: of George Floyd. UM, a lot of talk about diversity
Speaker 1: and racism around the country. Talk to us about your
Speaker 1: last four months. Well, you know, it's been an extraordinary
Speaker 1: leadership condition, I would say, UM, you know, definitely, you know, UM,
Speaker 1: an unexpected UM moment. I think we honestly we are
Speaker 1: we find ourselves on a tremendous moment of pain and
Speaker 1: complexity in this country. UM. And obviously that wasn't something
Speaker 1: I expected uh in March when I made the transition,
Speaker 1: but obviously something that UM I leaned into. You know,
Speaker 1: I think we are our firm obviously advantage research and advisory,
Speaker 1: and this was an opportunity for us to connect with
Speaker 1: our half course in a more meaningful way. UM. It's
Speaker 1: required a more human centered leadership, and that's something that
Speaker 1: I've been champion championing with large corporate I've been advising.
Speaker 1: But though it's been it's been extremely tough. It's extremely
Speaker 1: tough to witness the disproportionate impact and what maybe really
Speaker 1: when maybe lasting um uh you know, could have change
Speaker 1: in our society both positive um but potentially um heartbreaking
Speaker 1: as well. You know, Lena, I had a CEO that
Speaker 1: I was talking to yesterday who is black, talk about
Speaker 1: the his fear that this is but a moment. You
Speaker 1: know that this is just another moment that we sort
Speaker 1: of recognize, we live in it for a little while.
Speaker 1: We all sort of look around and say, ah, this
Speaker 1: is terrible, and I wish there was something we could do,
Speaker 1: but it's fleeting. What do we do to prevent that
Speaker 1: from happening? Well, you know what, I hope that this
Speaker 1: time is different because the stakes are higher. You know,
Speaker 1: the world is watching. At this point. We've seen quite
Speaker 1: a few UM CEOs and you know leaders come out
Speaker 1: with corporate state statements obviously denounced being racism and injustice,
Speaker 1: and I think that's been chast it. But I think
Speaker 1: the expectation is much greater now. Companies need to commit
Speaker 1: to doing the work internally so they actually have the
Speaker 1: right to make these statements, uh during times of global
Speaker 1: and national significance. Um. So I think that that is
Speaker 1: is where this one moment is difference in where I'm
Speaker 1: optimistic that they might actually kind of deliver on, you know,
Speaker 1: a promise. Man, I just want to kind of sit
Speaker 1: with that for a moment. What you just said. Leaders
Speaker 1: are coming at making statements, but they have to do
Speaker 1: the work internally to justify their right to make those
Speaker 1: statements externally. That's huge, and I think that is what
Speaker 1: could make this time different. Correct, definitely. I think this
Speaker 1: is what m you know, the we have to think
Speaker 1: we have. We are dealing with, you know, multiple crises simultaneously, right,
Speaker 1: global health pandemic which allowed to tremendous uncertainty and the
Speaker 1: severe in severe economic dislocation, and we now have millions
Speaker 1: of people right who have experienced rapid human laws, death, unemployment. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously we witnessed the taking a black slide
Speaker 1: at the hands of the police, and so you're you're
Speaker 1: dealing with the community, you know, a nation state filled
Speaker 1: with collective Greek right. Um. You know, I a few
Speaker 1: weeks ago, UM, in a newsweek UM opinion piece that
Speaker 1: I tended, you know, I write about the right to
Speaker 1: anger and rage keeping through and you know I I
Speaker 1: I write over time, fear and grief become fault lines
Speaker 1: hastening and eruption, interruption and collective outcry for justice. And
Speaker 1: what that basically meant was, you know what we're witnessing
Speaker 1: now right on rest, It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Right,
Speaker 1: people can only push down such courage. People can only
Speaker 1: of you know, of withstand such as violence and countless
Speaker 1: downgrades to one's dignity before interruption occurs. Right, you had
Speaker 1: people home, you had people, um, you know, suffering lack
Speaker 1: of access to quality health care. Uh, and then you
Speaker 1: you know, it's compounded by witnessing yet another death. And
Speaker 1: so I think this is an instance where the call
Speaker 1: to action is clear because it's coming from um, you know,
Speaker 1: the country as a whole. Right, we have nothing else
Speaker 1: to distract us, Right, We're not hopping on a subway
Speaker 1: and heading into the office. We can't go to a
Speaker 1: movie or grab a grab dinner with friends. We have
Speaker 1: nothing but opportunity to folk us on what the crisis
Speaker 1: have exposed once again, which is structural inequality in our society.
Speaker 1: All Right, We're going to continue this conversation because we've
Speaker 1: got a lot more questions for you, Lania, and just
Speaker 1: love some of the things that you're saying and the
Speaker 1: urgency with which you're saying it, because it feels like
Speaker 1: that's going to be key for these conversations continuing and
Speaker 1: for conversations, as you said, Carol, I think a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier in the show, for the conversations to lead
Speaker 1: to action, to measurable action where you can have this
Speaker 1: and I've had a number of conversations this week about
Speaker 1: this as well. But what Lena said about this whole
Speaker 1: idea that if you're going to make public statements, you
Speaker 1: better be doing the work basically at home that will
Speaker 1: lead to those structural changes, and that's what gives you
Speaker 1: the right to make the statements externally. Right, We've heard
Speaker 1: a lot of talk it's all about actions. Now, make
Speaker 1: a difference, change the system, change the structure that has
Speaker 1: been the foundation and basis of the inequalities. We're going
Speaker 1: to continue that conversation in just a moment. Well, let's
Speaker 1: get back to our conversation with Linnea Irvin. She is
Speaker 1: the president for the Center for Talent Innovation. Johns on
Speaker 1: the phone from New York City. We're in the midst
Speaker 1: of a great conversation around what happens next, what we
Speaker 1: should be doing, and maybe more importantly, what leaders should
Speaker 1: be doing in their companies and having conversations about race
Speaker 1: in the workplace is so important, Lena. You mentioned earlier
Speaker 1: in the conversation this notion of human centric leadership, which
Speaker 1: I think is critical here. What does that look like
Speaker 1: in a remote world? What does it look like in
Speaker 1: a world right now where people are really trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to talk to each other? Right? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, I think well, conversations are are critical, right um,
Speaker 1: opening up safe space for real dialogue. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a great way to ensure that your employees steel heard,
Speaker 1: you know, um, ensure that they're seen. But it's also
Speaker 1: a really great opportunity for leaders and would be allies
Speaker 1: to listen, right, be active in in uh their leadership, um,
Speaker 1: and and demonstrate from awareness of this moment in time
Speaker 1: the context in which we live disproportionate impact. Right. UM.
Speaker 1: I'm sure many leaders are. Of course they're considering UH,
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen and unemployment rates and UH and obviously they
Speaker 1: cannot unsee racism and polute police brutality. UM. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, are they communicating, are they signaling to
Speaker 1: their employee base at this is top of mind for them. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think you know, I hosted a similar
Speaker 1: conversation uh, you know, within my organization a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago. And you know, while on one hand it
Speaker 1: was tremendous vulnerability from a leadership standpoint to share my
Speaker 1: experiences in the end after listening to uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the team share, but on the other hand, it was
Speaker 1: extremely powerful. Right. It's important for leaders to be visible,
Speaker 1: to be vocal, And in this case, even if the
Speaker 1: conversation was difficult, it offered up space for storytelling, it
Speaker 1: offered offered up meaningful bridging capital, and brought the team
Speaker 1: closer together. And so I think conversation is a good
Speaker 1: place to start, uh, you know, for for leaders looking
Speaker 1: to connect with their employees at this time, Lennie. The
Speaker 1: other thing, you know, and it's something Jason and I
Speaker 1: have talked a lot about in particular over the past month.
Speaker 1: Um made a conversation conversation with John O'Brien of Operation Hope,
Speaker 1: and and what's interesting is he was talking with younger
Speaker 1: a younger population, you know, about why people are protesting
Speaker 1: and why does it get kind of sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: out of control a little bit, And and they said
Speaker 1: to him, you know, you have a seat at the table.
Speaker 1: You get to go to the White House, you get
Speaker 1: to talk to executives. We don't have a seat at
Speaker 1: the table. You know, we're not in the room when
Speaker 1: it all happens. And so it's and as he said
Speaker 1: to us, this is a poverty issue. This is this
Speaker 1: is you know, a much deeper entrenched problem in our situation,
Speaker 1: in our system. What do you think we as all
Speaker 1: leaders and who have voices, what can we do to
Speaker 1: change that? How do we change that? Well? Right, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, first admit that there is entrenched bias, right
Speaker 1: that is that that creates barriers to UM success or
Speaker 1: you know, access to meaningful work. But just you know
Speaker 1: that admission alone is a great step. And then I think,
Speaker 1: you know it's important for leaders to you know, be
Speaker 1: intentional about what they can control, you know, whether that's
Speaker 1: you know, hiring, development, promotion of key talent. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: representation is and in visibility is really important. Our research
Speaker 1: find um that you know, it's probably one of the
Speaker 1: most important things when we do have UM talent. Uh,
Speaker 1: some talent frustrated with their advancement. One in five black professionals,
Speaker 1: for example, UM feel that some of their race could
Speaker 1: never achieve a top position at their company. I mean
Speaker 1: they can envision a reflection of their own image in
Speaker 1: the C suite or a CEO, right compared to uh
Speaker 1: three percent as like professionals. Right. And then professionals of
Speaker 1: color you know, as a whole are less likely to
Speaker 1: have access to senior executive advocates. One fifth of black
Speaker 1: employees and I would note of Asian professionals say that
Speaker 1: not a single leader knows them by name. Imagine being
Speaker 1: rendered invisible in connection to power and the long term
Speaker 1: impact that could have on one's career. Right. So I
Speaker 1: think one one thing that will help, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: organizations kind of bridge with with you know, emerging talent,
Speaker 1: those that are coming up in these organizations and they
Speaker 1: are UM looking to eventually have a seat at the table.
Speaker 1: Acknowledge that there is a disconnect, right, Um, there's a
Speaker 1: there's a in are being black and Corporate America research.
Speaker 1: One really big finding was a perception gap, UM that
Speaker 1: was unveiled in the data. Uh So black professionals, for example,
Speaker 1: they witnessed, you know, they experienced serious to advancement, but
Speaker 1: they seem this seems largely invisible to their white colleague.
Speaker 1: So where slack professionals say yes, black talent has to
Speaker 1: work much harder to advance, only of their colleagues agree
Speaker 1: with that statement. So there's there's a material yet, there's
Speaker 1: a material procession gap that makes overcoming the hurdle of retention, development,
Speaker 1: advancement that much more difficult. It's just a reminder that
Speaker 1: there's still I feel like so much we all have
Speaker 1: to learn in this process. Um, Lenia, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: and I hope we can check back with you again
Speaker 1: in the future. Really really appreciate your time on this Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Lenia Irvin, she's president of the Center for Talent Innovation,
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from New York City. But
Speaker 1: you know, she is someone who understands diversity inclusion from
Speaker 1: so many different perspectives. Jason has worked on Wall Street,
Speaker 1: which is you know, can be hit a place when
Speaker 1: it comes to those both things. Know, that was really
Speaker 1: what I wanted to We're gonna have to have her
Speaker 1: back because I do feel like, you know, in our
Speaker 1: little world here, if Wall Street can figure this out,
Speaker 1: I really feel like literally anyone can. And so what
Speaker 1: does she think the conversations that need to happen. You know,
Speaker 1: we're starting to see some movement. You know, Larry Fink
Speaker 1: coming out and talking about the high, setting specific goals
Speaker 1: to hire black workers at his shops Blackstone, to coming
Speaker 1: out in terms of how they're gonna do recruiting. It's
Speaker 1: not just taking from other already Wall Street firms, but
Speaker 1: actually being much more aggressive on campus to bring in
Speaker 1: new bodies. So really important UM actions, actions, actions, That's
Speaker 1: what it's about.