WEBVTT - Irvin on Breaking the Silence at Work 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:04.800 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:09.559 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Thank you very much, Charlie Pellett. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:11.959 Gotta say I'm eager to get to our next guest. 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.960 I've been um doing a bunch of reading Jason about her. 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.360 She began her job on March two as president of 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.120 the Center for Talent Innovation. It's a fifteen year old 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.360 nonprofit think tank. It's dedicated to diversity and inclusion in 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.040 the workplace. She spent more than decade on Wall Street, 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:29.240 including a Bank of America, Bank of America Merrill Lynch 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.600 excuse me, where she led global equity asset management. She 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:35.479 is also co chair of the Human Rights Campaign's National 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:39.000 Business Advisory Council, and it's a form of diversity leaders 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:43.760 from fortune companies. She's also founding executive member of Open Finance. 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.960 It's a consortium of l g B, d Q leaders 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:51.440 advancing inclusion across Wall Street. I feel like, Lenia Irvin, 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.160 you represent so much at the conversations that we've been 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.600 having about the last fourteen fifteen weeks and certainly in 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.120 the last month. She joins us on the phone from 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.000 New York City. Welcome welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you for 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.039 having I have to say talk about timing year. I 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.000 think roughly what four months in on your job. We've 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.160 been dealing with the virus UM. Of course, the aftermath 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:17.319 of George Floyd. UM, a lot of talk about diversity 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.679 and racism around the country. Talk to us about your 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.800 last four months. Well, you know, it's been an extraordinary 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:29.919 leadership condition, I would say, UM, you know, definitely, you know, UM, 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:35.759 an unexpected UM moment. I think we honestly we are 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:39.560 we find ourselves on a tremendous moment of pain and 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:43.040 complexity in this country. UM. And obviously that wasn't something 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.520 I expected uh in March when I made the transition, 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:51.120 but obviously something that UM I leaned into. You know, 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:56.279 I think we are our firm obviously advantage research and advisory, 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.760 and this was an opportunity for us to connect with 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.680 our half course in a more meaningful way. UM. It's 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.400 required a more human centered leadership, and that's something that 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.639 I've been champion championing with large corporate I've been advising. 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:13.919 But though it's been it's been extremely tough. It's extremely 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:19.400 tough to witness the disproportionate impact and what maybe really 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:25.400 when maybe lasting um uh you know, could have change 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:30.840 in our society both positive um but potentially um heartbreaking 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.640 as well. You know, Lena, I had a CEO that 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:39.080 I was talking to yesterday who is black, talk about 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:46.040 the his fear that this is but a moment. You 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.280 know that this is just another moment that we sort 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:51.320 of recognize, we live in it for a little while. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.320 We all sort of look around and say, ah, this 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.480 is terrible, and I wish there was something we could do, 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.560 but it's fleeting. What do we do to prevent that 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.840 from happening? Well, you know what, I hope that this 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:09.320 time is different because the stakes are higher. You know, 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.760 the world is watching. At this point. We've seen quite 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:17.200 a few UM CEOs and you know leaders come out 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.079 with corporate state statements obviously denounced being racism and injustice, 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.880 and I think that's been chast it. But I think 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.280 the expectation is much greater now. Companies need to commit 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.440 to doing the work internally so they actually have the 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:34.240 right to make these statements, uh during times of global 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.720 and national significance. Um. So I think that that is 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.600 is where this one moment is difference in where I'm 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.680 optimistic that they might actually kind of deliver on, you know, 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.040 a promise. Man, I just want to kind of sit 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:49.880 with that for a moment. What you just said. Leaders 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:51.760 are coming at making statements, but they have to do 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.440 the work internally to justify their right to make those 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.440 statements externally. That's huge, and I think that is what 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:05.840 could make this time different. Correct, definitely. I think this 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.760 is what m you know, the we have to think 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:17.320 we have. We are dealing with, you know, multiple crises simultaneously, right, 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:23.040 global health pandemic which allowed to tremendous uncertainty and the 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:27.200 severe in severe economic dislocation, and we now have millions 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:33.000 of people right who have experienced rapid human laws, death, unemployment. UM. 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.719 You know, obviously we witnessed the taking a black slide 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.320 at the hands of the police, and so you're you're 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.919 dealing with the community, you know, a nation state filled 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:48.200 with collective Greek right. Um. You know, I a few 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:53.360 weeks ago, UM, in a newsweek UM opinion piece that 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:57.039 I tended, you know, I write about the right to 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.400 anger and rage keeping through and you know I I 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.520 I write over time, fear and grief become fault lines 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:10.320 hastening and eruption, interruption and collective outcry for justice. And 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.000 what that basically meant was, you know what we're witnessing 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.280 now right on rest, It shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Right, 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.599 people can only push down such courage. People can only 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.600 of you know, of withstand such as violence and countless 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.600 downgrades to one's dignity before interruption occurs. Right, you had 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:31.760 people home, you had people, um, you know, suffering lack 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.039 of access to quality health care. Uh, and then you 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.800 you know, it's compounded by witnessing yet another death. And 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:41.200 so I think this is an instance where the call 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.640 to action is clear because it's coming from um, you know, 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.320 the country as a whole. Right, we have nothing else 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.840 to distract us, Right, We're not hopping on a subway 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.160 and heading into the office. We can't go to a 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.159 movie or grab a grab dinner with friends. We have 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:01.000 nothing but opportunity to folk us on what the crisis 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:05.159 have exposed once again, which is structural inequality in our society. 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.040 All Right, We're going to continue this conversation because we've 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.920 got a lot more questions for you, Lania, and just 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:16.680 love some of the things that you're saying and the 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.159 urgency with which you're saying it, because it feels like 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.240 that's going to be key for these conversations continuing and 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.760 for conversations, as you said, Carol, I think a little 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.159 bit earlier in the show, for the conversations to lead 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.599 to action, to measurable action where you can have this 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.400 and I've had a number of conversations this week about 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.479 this as well. But what Lena said about this whole 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.320 idea that if you're going to make public statements, you 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.160 better be doing the work basically at home that will 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.840 lead to those structural changes, and that's what gives you 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.280 the right to make the statements externally. Right, We've heard 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.280 a lot of talk it's all about actions. Now, make 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.880 a difference, change the system, change the structure that has 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.280 been the foundation and basis of the inequalities. We're going 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.200 to continue that conversation in just a moment. Well, let's 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.960 get back to our conversation with Linnea Irvin. She is 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.160 the president for the Center for Talent Innovation. Johns on 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.240 the phone from New York City. We're in the midst 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.880 of a great conversation around what happens next, what we 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.520 should be doing, and maybe more importantly, what leaders should 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.520 be doing in their companies and having conversations about race 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:22.000 in the workplace is so important, Lena. You mentioned earlier 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.960 in the conversation this notion of human centric leadership, which 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.280 I think is critical here. What does that look like 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.120 in a remote world? What does it look like in 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.640 a world right now where people are really trying to 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:39.119 figure out how to talk to each other? Right? Well, 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:44.920 you know, I think well, conversations are are critical, right um, 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:51.000 opening up safe space for real dialogue. UM. You know, 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.160 it's a great way to ensure that your employees steel heard, 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.000 you know, um, ensure that they're seen. But it's also 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:02.000 a really great opportunity for leaders and would be allies 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:07.960 to listen, right, be active in in uh their leadership, um, 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:12.440 and and demonstrate from awareness of this moment in time 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.520 the context in which we live disproportionate impact. Right. UM. 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.400 I'm sure many leaders are. Of course they're considering UH, 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:24.480 COVID nineteen and unemployment rates and UH and obviously they 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:30.400 cannot unsee racism and polute police brutality. UM. But at 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:34.120 the same time, are they communicating, are they signaling to 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:38.480 their employee base at this is top of mind for them. Um, 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.959 you know, I think you know, I hosted a similar 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:45.760 conversation uh, you know, within my organization a couple of 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.120 weeks ago. And you know, while on one hand it 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.480 was tremendous vulnerability from a leadership standpoint to share my 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.679 experiences in the end after listening to uh, you know, 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:58.920 the team share, but on the other hand, it was 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:04.599 extremely powerful. Right. It's important for leaders to be visible, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.079 to be vocal, And in this case, even if the 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.520 conversation was difficult, it offered up space for storytelling, it 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.360 offered offered up meaningful bridging capital, and brought the team 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.079 closer together. And so I think conversation is a good 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.200 place to start, uh, you know, for for leaders looking 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.880 to connect with their employees at this time, Lennie. The 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:25.839 other thing, you know, and it's something Jason and I 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.720 have talked a lot about in particular over the past month. 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.920 Um made a conversation conversation with John O'Brien of Operation Hope, 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.360 and and what's interesting is he was talking with younger 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.680 a younger population, you know, about why people are protesting 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:41.839 and why does it get kind of sometimes, you know, 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:44.600 out of control a little bit, And and they said 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.640 to him, you know, you have a seat at the table. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.000 You get to go to the White House, you get 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.440 to talk to executives. We don't have a seat at 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.360 the table. You know, we're not in the room when 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.400 it all happens. And so it's and as he said 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:00.120 to us, this is a poverty issue. This is this 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.360 is you know, a much deeper entrenched problem in our situation, 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.959 in our system. What do you think we as all 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.080 leaders and who have voices, what can we do to 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.640 change that? How do we change that? Well? Right, well, 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.480 I mean, first admit that there is entrenched bias, right 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.600 that is that that creates barriers to UM success or 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:23.920 you know, access to meaningful work. But just you know 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:28.079 that admission alone is a great step. And then I think, 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:33.160 you know it's important for leaders to you know, be 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.440 intentional about what they can control, you know, whether that's 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:40.559 you know, hiring, development, promotion of key talent. Um. You know, 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.920 representation is and in visibility is really important. Our research 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:48.160 find um that you know, it's probably one of the 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.360 most important things when we do have UM talent. Uh, 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.920 some talent frustrated with their advancement. One in five black professionals, 0:10:55.920 --> 0:11:00.720 for example, UM feel that some of their race could 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.679 never achieve a top position at their company. I mean 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.320 they can envision a reflection of their own image in 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.360 the C suite or a CEO, right compared to uh 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.480 three percent as like professionals. Right. And then professionals of 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.480 color you know, as a whole are less likely to 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.200 have access to senior executive advocates. One fifth of black 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:23.320 employees and I would note of Asian professionals say that 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.640 not a single leader knows them by name. Imagine being 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.560 rendered invisible in connection to power and the long term 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.200 impact that could have on one's career. Right. So I 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.080 think one one thing that will help, UM, you know, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:41.880 organizations kind of bridge with with you know, emerging talent, 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.840 those that are coming up in these organizations and they 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.000 are UM looking to eventually have a seat at the table. 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:52.880 Acknowledge that there is a disconnect, right, Um, there's a 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.240 there's a in are being black and Corporate America research. 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.760 One really big finding was a perception gap, UM that 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:04.200 was unveiled in the data. Uh So black professionals, for example, 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.880 they witnessed, you know, they experienced serious to advancement, but 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.600 they seem this seems largely invisible to their white colleague. 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.480 So where slack professionals say yes, black talent has to 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:20.360 work much harder to advance, only of their colleagues agree 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:25.040 with that statement. So there's there's a material yet, there's 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:29.520 a material procession gap that makes overcoming the hurdle of retention, development, 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.319 advancement that much more difficult. It's just a reminder that 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.000 there's still I feel like so much we all have 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:38.000 to learn in this process. Um, Lenia, thank you so much, 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:39.920 and I hope we can check back with you again 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.160 in the future. Really really appreciate your time on this Wednesday. 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.199 Lenia Irvin, she's president of the Center for Talent Innovation, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:48.800 joining us on the phone from New York City. But 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:53.000 you know, she is someone who understands diversity inclusion from 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.880 so many different perspectives. Jason has worked on Wall Street, 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.360 which is you know, can be hit a place when 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.920 it comes to those both things. Know, that was really 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.080 what I wanted to We're gonna have to have her 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:05.760 back because I do feel like, you know, in our 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.960 little world here, if Wall Street can figure this out, 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.360 I really feel like literally anyone can. And so what 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.720 does she think the conversations that need to happen. You know, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.760 we're starting to see some movement. You know, Larry Fink 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.880 coming out and talking about the high, setting specific goals 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:27.440 to hire black workers at his shops Blackstone, to coming 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.240 out in terms of how they're gonna do recruiting. It's 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.680 not just taking from other already Wall Street firms, but 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.600 actually being much more aggressive on campus to bring in 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:40.400 new bodies. So really important UM actions, actions, actions, That's 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:40.959 what it's about.