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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A glamorous TV anchor has

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Speaker 1: just been determined to be quote too insane to be

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Speaker 1: tried for the murder the stabbing death of her eighty

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Speaker 1: one year old mom in bed. What I'm Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. That's right. A glamorous former TV anchor

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Speaker 1: accused of murdering her elderly mom too insane to be tried.

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Speaker 1: Angeline Mock taken into custody in Wichita, Kansas for allegedly

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Speaker 1: stabbing her mom, Anita avers dead. The mom found in

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Speaker 1: bed with multiple stab wounds. Okay, let's refresh our recollection

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Speaker 1: as to what happened to the eighty one year old mom.

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Speaker 2: Angeline Mack, a familiar face in the Kansas City news scene,

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Speaker 2: gained popularity as the morning show hanker for Fox two.

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Speaker 2: Her career was marked by her engaging presence and dedication

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Speaker 2: to delivering the news, not knowing she would find herself

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Speaker 2: back the limelight for all the wrong reasons.

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Speaker 1: That deadly, that fatal blood bath in the home bedroom

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Speaker 1: leaves her mother eighty years old, stabbed dead. What do

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Speaker 1: we know? There was a woman who came and approached

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Speaker 1: our vehicle with blood like her hands were filled, her

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Speaker 1: body was filled with blood, asking to conine one.

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Speaker 3: One seven am. Alyssa Castro and her boyfriend are in

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Speaker 3: their car in Wichita when a neighbor waves them down.

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Speaker 3: As the woman approaches, they see what appears to be blood,

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Speaker 3: a lot of blood on the woman's hands. The woman

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Speaker 3: asked to borrow a phone to call nine one one,

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Speaker 3: then takes off with the phone back into a house.

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Speaker 1: Astar if she was a king, and she was pretty

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Speaker 1: schicken up, and she seems scared and she just ran

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Speaker 1: off that from our friends, say kay Kae straight out

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Speaker 1: to Melissa McCarty joining us, investigative reporter, hosts of the

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Speaker 1: Killer Jeans podcast and author of a brandy book, The

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Speaker 1: Making of a Crime Reporter. Melissa, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us now. Who is the woman sitting in a

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Speaker 1: car that observes Angeline, the morning TV anchor, running out

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Speaker 1: of the home covered in blood. Who is she?

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Speaker 4: She was a neighbor in the car with her boyfriend

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Speaker 4: and she watched everything unfold and she said she was

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Speaker 4: traumatized by it. Imagine her just sitting there, pulling into

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Speaker 4: the neighborhood and she sees this woman frantically running towards them,

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Speaker 4: begging for help, So obviously they stop and she's asking

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Speaker 4: for a cell phone. The boyfriend hands over her cell

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Speaker 4: phone and she takes it, runs inside the house.

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Speaker 1: And doesn't return. The informant the neighbor refers to Angelaine

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Speaker 1: Mock as this woman's specifically this woman. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people are going to get face to face with a

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Speaker 1: turkey this Thursday, because it is Thanksgiving and because so

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Speaker 1: many people are going to be basing their turkey. We

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Speaker 1: do like to talk about grease and where it should go.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know that all that grease

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Speaker 1: everybody on the block is cooking a turkey, and that

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Speaker 1: grease can be very problematic. That is from our friends

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Speaker 1: at Fox two News, and that is Angelain Mack who

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Speaker 1: ran from the home covered in blood, curious to Dan

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Speaker 1: Murphy joining US former NYPD detective sergeant on the Joint

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Speaker 1: Terrorism Task Force and former chief security officer, co host

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Speaker 1: of a hit podcast, gold Shields. Dan Murphy, you know

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Speaker 1: this woman, the TV anchor, is drenched in blood. When

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Speaker 1: police finally get to the scene, they find something even worse.

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Speaker 1: Her eighty year old mother, apparently bedridden, is stabbed dead

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Speaker 1: in her own bed. That's the mom on the left.

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Speaker 1: The mom is Anita Avers. I think she actually turned

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Speaker 1: eighty one just before her stabbing death. So where do

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Speaker 1: you even start with a scene like.

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Speaker 5: That, Dan, So immediately upon response, you're going to want

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Speaker 5: to give any medical aid you can at this point

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Speaker 5: if the person is not clearly deceased, and even if

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Speaker 5: they are, a medical personnel have to come and attend

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Speaker 5: to them, which is going to disturb the scene a bit,

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Speaker 5: but it has to be done. Then you're going to

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Speaker 5: want to preserve all the evidence you can. And I've

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Speaker 5: been in blood bets and you have to walk gingerly

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Speaker 5: around them and wear those little booties. But it needs

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Speaker 5: to be done because later on the evidence is all

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Speaker 5: going to speak through experts to a jury. So right

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Speaker 5: now you're preserving.

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Speaker 1: Evidence you're deserving. You know a piece of evidence that

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Speaker 1: is commonly fumbled through nobody's fault, and that's footprints. When

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Speaker 1: you have a bloodbath like the one that happened at

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Speaker 1: the time of this Fox News anchor, every blood marking matters.

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Speaker 1: It could be spray back. For instance, this is a

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Speaker 1: stabbing death the mother an eighty one year old woman

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Speaker 1: is stabbed multiple times. Think ted Bundy right and the

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Speaker 1: clubbing right. That's called throwback where the victim is hit

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Speaker 1: forcefully and then the perpetrator swings back to strike again.

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Speaker 1: That blood is cast off right. The cast off, if

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Speaker 1: measured correctly, can determine maybe even the height of the defendant,

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Speaker 1: may be the position in which they were when the

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Speaker 1: attack occurred. You can tell how many times. If you

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Speaker 1: can't tell from the body, you can tell from the

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Speaker 1: cast off how many times the person was stabbed because

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Speaker 1: every time there was a swing back, it hits in

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Speaker 1: a slightly different spot on the wall or the ceiling.

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Speaker 1: And speaking of ceilings significant explain why ceilings are important

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Speaker 1: in a case like this, that they be processed just

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Speaker 1: like all the other blood evidence.

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Speaker 5: Because blood evidence is airborne once it becomes a part

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Speaker 5: of cast off, and it will leave an impression upon

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Speaker 5: the ceiling. In most buildings, especially a residential building like this,

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Speaker 5: that evidence is going to be important because the blood

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Speaker 5: spatter pattern analysis will be done by crime scene personnel

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Speaker 5: who understands zerology, and you understand the science of blood

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Speaker 5: and how it moves and how it forms and what

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Speaker 5: formations look like when it's cast off of another. So

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Speaker 5: that preservation of evidence is vital, and you would want

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Speaker 5: to take pieces of that ceiling with you as evidence.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean take pieces of the ceiling with

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Speaker 1: you as evidence.

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Speaker 5: I've seen ceiling pieces cut out by crime scene units,

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Speaker 5: pieces of flooring cut out, depending upon the nature of

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Speaker 5: the crime. Now this week it became a homicide. You're

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Speaker 5: going to take that evidence seriously and take pictures of it.

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Speaker 5: But also you may want to take the actual physical

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Speaker 5: piece itself. If it's a simple piece of wallboard that

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Speaker 5: you can cut out, you may want to take it.

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Speaker 5: It's something that may be challenged by defense, you may

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Speaker 5: want to have it as evidentiary piece of evidence with

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Speaker 5: you in case it's challenge But those pieces of evidence

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Speaker 5: are going to tell a story. And in thorough investigations,

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Speaker 5: I've seen pieces of buildings brought out and taken into custody.

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Speaker 1: You know, we got started on this discussion talking about

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Speaker 1: floor evidence and how often evidence is lost or ruined

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Speaker 1: really through no one's fault when they come onto the scene.

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Speaker 1: You know, everybody shees have to be taken and there

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Speaker 1: has to be a print made of them to compare

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Speaker 1: to bloody she prints, if there are any on the floor.

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Speaker 1: The only people that should go into that room are

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Speaker 1: the ones who are burdened with tying to save a life.

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Speaker 1: That's it. And then if they can't save the eighty

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Speaker 1: one year old mom's life, they have to very gingerly

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Speaker 1: back out and get the hay out of there so

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Speaker 1: the work can begin. But when you're trying to save

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Speaker 1: somebody's life, that's your paramount concern. You're not worried about

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Speaker 1: bloody footprints. Okay, let's go back to what happened. This

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Speaker 1: is it, and this is a whole other can of worms.

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Speaker 1: Dan Murphy. This happened around seven a m. Seven am,

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Speaker 1: which statistically is very rare for a bloodbath, a deadly

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Speaker 1: blood bath to go down before breakfast. Okay, listen.

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Speaker 2: Nine one one is called and relays a message to

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Speaker 2: first responders. A woman says there has been a stabbing

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Speaker 2: in her home this morning.

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Speaker 6: At zero seven fifty one hours, officers responded to a

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Speaker 6: stabbing call in the fifteen hundred block of East Crowley.

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Speaker 6: When officers arrived on scene, they were met in the

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Speaker 6: street with a forty forty eight year old wife feet email,

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Speaker 6: who had suffered from some cutting cuts to her hand.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is a veteran trial lawyer. Jim Elliott attorney

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Speaker 1: with Butler Snow Legal counsel for multiple municipalities and governmental

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Speaker 1: entities at butlersnow dot com. Jim, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Jim Elliott, You've tried a lot of cases

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Speaker 1: in court. Blood evidence is very tricky, especially if you

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Speaker 1: don't know what you're doing. But one thing I would

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Speaker 1: be looking at is the degree to which the blood

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Speaker 1: had coagulated at the time when amts and first responders

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Speaker 1: get there, and it's really difficult, Jim, You've been on

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Speaker 1: a lot of scenes. They're trying to save the eighty

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Speaker 1: one year old mom's life. They're not thinking has the

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Speaker 1: blood coagulated. They're trying to resuscitate her and get her

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Speaker 1: airlifted to the hospital, where I would come in as

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Speaker 1: the prosecutor, is critical that we know whether the blood

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Speaker 1: had dried, not just coagulated. Coagulated means it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like jello. It's not thin, liquefied like water anymore. It's

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Speaker 1: more of a jello consistency that's coagulated, and the harder

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Speaker 1: it gets, the closer it gets to being dried in

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Speaker 1: your experience, Jim Elliott, why is it so important that

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Speaker 1: we know whether the blood was still liquid as in water,

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Speaker 1: semi coagulated as in jell O, or flat out dried.

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Speaker 7: Well, certainly I go to what time the crime actually

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Speaker 7: occurred or the stabbing occurred, and probably in that case

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Speaker 7: you're only going to have the eyewitness testimony of the

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Speaker 7: first responders who can indicate what they saw, perhaps without

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Speaker 7: a great deal of exportation in that regard.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they'll be torn to shreds on cross exam.

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Speaker 1: We've got to have more than that. We have to

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Speaker 1: have the cops in there immediately processing the scene. But

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Speaker 1: the reality is, Jim Elliott, it takes a beat for

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Speaker 1: the entire CSI to arrive, and you could lose that

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Speaker 1: critical evidence. Why is it critical I need to know

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Speaker 1: when this eighty one year old mother was stabbed multiple

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Speaker 1: times in her bed. You know another thing, Elliot, I

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Speaker 1: noticed this when prosecuting an inner city Atlanta, when the

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Speaker 1: victim is very young, like an infant, or very old.

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Speaker 1: For some reason, those cases are very often pled down

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Speaker 1: to like manslaughter, some degree you got voluntary, you got

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Speaker 1: involuntary I don't know why, but have you noticed that

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Speaker 1: phenomena used to burn me up? Like somehow because the

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Speaker 1: victim is really young and hadn't lived yet as an

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Speaker 1: infant or really old, they don't matter anymore. Did you

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Speaker 1: notice that. I'd love to see statistic on that.

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Speaker 7: Well, that's certainly communication. I guess that's kind of driven

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Speaker 7: by the value of the life at the time of

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Speaker 7: the passing.

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Speaker 8: You know, you kids getting all the Elliot coverage of

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Speaker 8: the event and pictures seem to.

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Speaker 1: Be going off commercial break the value of the life.

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Speaker 1: You know what. You sound a lot like a civil

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Speaker 1: lawyer right now, where you try to get a money

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Speaker 1: verdict from a jury and you ask the jury to

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Speaker 1: put a dollar value on somebody's life. So what if

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Speaker 1: they're old, Jim Elliott, they're just not worth as much,

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Speaker 1: Go ahead and put it out there. It's the usual.

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Speaker 7: It's the usual measure of damages, Nancy. Whether it's morally

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Speaker 7: right or it's everyone's code of ethics or not, that's

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Speaker 7: the way our system works with regard to that measurement.

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Speaker 7: That's what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 1: Well, maybe for you, Jim Elliott, and you've won a

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Speaker 1: lot of cas with civil juries. And now I see

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Speaker 1: why because you actually said that, like it's true. Just

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Speaker 1: because it is done, Elliott, does not mean it should

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Speaker 1: be done. That doesn't mean it's okay just because it happens.

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Speaker 1: A dollar value on a life, that premise right there

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Speaker 1: is concerning to me. But that said, Jim Elliott, I

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Speaker 1: want you to tell me the truth. Isn't it true

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Speaker 1: that when the victim is an infant and you don't

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Speaker 1: have a whole lot of cute Christmas pictures and you know,

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Speaker 1: baptizing pictures and family pictures at Disney all that, and

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Speaker 1: a really old victim. I am telling you it's anecdotal,

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Speaker 1: not a statistic, that those plea deals are cheaper than

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Speaker 1: they are for just to say, a young, vibrant man

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Speaker 1: or woman. Have you noticed that, be honest?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it can be. I think with regard to the

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Speaker 7: younger people, you can't really paint a picture of their

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Speaker 7: life for the jury. That's what prosecutors will probably worry about.

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Speaker 7: With regard to an older person. Again, there's this there's

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Speaker 7: going to be this attitude that they live their.

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Speaker 3: Life and.

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Speaker 7: Sadly is it.

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Speaker 1: That may be the attitude Elliott, but don't bring it

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Speaker 1: to crime stories. Save it for your civil juries. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to let Elliott sit there and think about

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Speaker 1: what he just said and move this case forward. Listen.

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Speaker 9: Arriving at the home at seven point fifty two am,

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Speaker 9: Wichita police find a woman outside the home with cuts

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Speaker 9: in her hands and blood on her clothing. Inside, they

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Speaker 9: find eighty one year old Anita Avers Own responsive inner

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Speaker 9: bed with multiple stab wounds.

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Speaker 1: Both women are taking to the hospital.

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Speaker 6: Officers went inside the residence found an eighty one year

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Speaker 6: old elderly female suffering from multiple stab stab wounds.

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Speaker 1: Both were transported to local hospitals. My got to Melissa

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Speaker 1: McCarty joining us side, Missi ad reporter, host of the

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Speaker 1: Killer Jeans podcast, which is awesome, Melissa McCarty and author

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Speaker 1: of the Making of a Crime Reporter Melissa, what can

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Speaker 1: you tell me about the victims stabs? What have you learned?

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Speaker 4: Anita Avers had multiple stab wounds to her as stars

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Speaker 4: was an upper body, her face, the specific areas police

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Speaker 4: haven't released that just yet, but she was attacked reportedly

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Speaker 4: in her bed with multiple stab wounds.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about what Melissa McCarty just said.

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Speaker 1: Karen Start joining me. A forensic psychologist renowned TV radio

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Speaker 1: trauma expert consultant at Karenstart dot com. If you're looking

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Speaker 1: for her, it's Karen with a C. Karen, I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about something that shocked.

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Speaker 2: Me to the core.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Karen, you and I bonded together in very,

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Speaker 1: very long hours in the dark at Court TV studios

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Speaker 1: where you and I would sit there. I believe there

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Speaker 1: were three or four hour shifts we had watching trials

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Speaker 1: live and commenting on them whenever there would be a break.

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Speaker 1: Even after all that, after all the cases I've tried,

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Speaker 1: after all the cases you have worked on, I was

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Speaker 1: so shocked with the Brian Coburger attacks in that well,

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Speaker 1: many things, but the stabbing to the face of Killy

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Speaker 1: Gonsalvess and Maddie. I believe Killy gonsolves she was stabbed

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Speaker 1: multiple times, but in her face alone there were over

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Speaker 1: twenty stab wounds. Now, I'm just a trial lawyer, you're

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Speaker 1: the shrink. But when a victim is stabbed repeatedly in

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Speaker 1: the face, there has got to be a psychological motivation there.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I bet you do.

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Speaker 8: That's rage, Nancy, and that's very symbolic because he's trying

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Speaker 8: to wipe out her face. He's angry even though he

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Speaker 8: had no contact with her. This is a guy who

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Speaker 8: just couldn't control himself when it came to her. He

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Speaker 8: was obsessed, and so you are wiping out the person.

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Speaker 8: In some instances, a killer will put a cover over

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Speaker 8: somebody's face, a pillow, something to hide them. They just

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Speaker 8: don't want to see and they want to obliterate that person.

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Speaker 2: She was beautiful and that really.

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Speaker 8: Disturbed him, like, let me get rid of who she

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Speaker 8: is in all her beauty, because she doesn't want me.

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Speaker 1: You know another thing, Karen Stark. You know my mom

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Speaker 1: who's going to be ninety four in December and lives

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Speaker 1: with us. The act of stabbing a little old in

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Speaker 1: her bed, either bedridden or asleep, that's a whole another

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Speaker 1: level of evil right there. Now. I know, no one's

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Speaker 1: life is more valuable than another person's life. I don't

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Speaker 1: care if we're talking about a movie star, TV star

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Speaker 1: like Matthew Perry or we're talking about this eighty one

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Speaker 1: year old ma. But to attack a completely defenseless person,

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Speaker 1: that's a whole another can of worms. Psychologically, what is that?

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Speaker 1: It's like shooting killing a mockingbird.

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Speaker 8: That's true, but we don't really know, Nancy, what was

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Speaker 8: going on inside of that person's head.

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, excuse me one moment. Did I just hear

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Speaker 1: you say it matters what's going on inside that person's head,

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Speaker 1: the stabber, the killer, I don't care what's going on

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Speaker 1: in their head there legally insane, doesn't matter. You know

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Speaker 1: how many years it took me to figure that out?

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Speaker 1: It was either five or seven because I marked it.

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Speaker 1: I would sit in court looking over at the defendant,

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Speaker 1: always a violent felon, because everything else will get plat out,

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Speaker 1: thinking why why would they do this? Finally I think

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Speaker 1: it was year five. I'm like, why am I asking why?

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what's going on inside his head? I

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Speaker 1: have a case to prove, and I'm going to prove it.

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Speaker 10: So are you as an eighty one year old bedridden

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Speaker 10: woman in her bed stabbed multiple times potentially in the face,

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Speaker 10: and you want me to figure out what's going on

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Speaker 10: in the killer's mind?

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Speaker 1: Did you say that? Now?

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Speaker 8: I said, we don't know what's going on. But what

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Speaker 8: I was trying to say, Nancy, is that who, however

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Speaker 8: this person was, they had tremendous, just like Coberger, rage,

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Speaker 8: rage to do so many stab wounds, rage to do

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Speaker 8: somebody's space. If that actually happened, something was going on

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Speaker 8: with they really did not want to make that person

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Speaker 8: be recognizable. They were obsessed in this killing.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Graith Sedsrick County District Judge Jeff

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Speaker 1: Goring rules Angelaine Mott, the Glam TV reporter. The Glam

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Speaker 1: TV anchor was incompetent to stand trial after a psychologists

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Speaker 1: report was given to the court. Now, difference incompetency to

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Speaker 1: stand trial simply means you are not fit to help

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Speaker 1: your defense lawyer with your defense. Insanity means you did

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Speaker 1: not know right from wrong at the time of the incident.

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Speaker 1: In this case, the stabbing of her own mother. As

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Speaker 1: we go to air right now, Mock sent to Larned

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Speaker 1: State Hospital for further evaluation and treatment. But if she

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Speaker 1: gets rehabilitated with meds, she will be right back in

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Speaker 1: the courtroom to stand trial for this brutal stabbing death

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Speaker 1: of her own mother. Then she can tell the jury

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Speaker 1: she was insane at the time she killed her own mother. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what do we know what happened inside that home with.

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Speaker 2: Over a decade of experience as a broadcast journalist, Angie

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Speaker 2: Mock was known for her hard hitting reports on crime. Ironically,

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Speaker 2: she now finds herself at the center of a murder.

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Speaker 1: Case, joining us Melissa McCarty, reporter and host of The

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Speaker 1: Killer Jeans Melissa, both women were transported to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: Describe their two injuries because they are diametrically opposed.

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Speaker 4: Right, as had multiple stab wounds and when she was

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Speaker 4: transported she ended up dying at the hospital, was pronounced

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Speaker 4: about thirty minutes later. Now, Angie Mock had some cuts

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Speaker 4: on her hands, and she was treated.

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Speaker 1: As well and release. If I am not mistaken, she

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Speaker 1: was treated and released as right, very same day, very

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Speaker 1: same day. Can I see Melissa McCarty, Please, Melissa McCarty,

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Speaker 1: are you telling me that the eighty one year old

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Speaker 1: mother was stabbed multiple times in the torso and possibly

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Speaker 1: the face and dies and the glamorous TV anchor had

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Speaker 1: some cuts on her hands? Is that right? That's right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. She was also covered in blood. Covered in blood.

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Speaker 1: Now I find it very curious to Dave mac joining

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Speaker 1: us Crime Stories investigative reporter. Very curious, indeed, how did

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Speaker 1: the Morning TV news anchor survive the attack with a

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Speaker 1: few cuts on her hands, and her mother, bedridden, is

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Speaker 1: the target of a maniacal killer and is stabbed dead.

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Speaker 1: How does that happen?

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Speaker 3: You know? And Nancy, that's the question that they're going

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Speaker 3: to have to answer very quickly, because she was able

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Speaker 3: to get out of the house and wave down help.

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Speaker 3: Remember Angie Mauck actually went out into the street, is

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Speaker 3: waving down people for help and get the cell phone

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Speaker 3: from somebody she doesn't even know, just gets it and

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Speaker 3: runs back into the house. So she's still got plenty

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Speaker 3: of energy. She's still able to get up and go

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Speaker 3: and ask for help. And yet her mother is there

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Speaker 3: in the bed having been massacred. So don't know what

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Speaker 3: exactly transpired, except she had plenty of energy to go

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Speaker 3: out and get help for herself.

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Speaker 1: Dave mac do you know what you just to me

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about her mother. I felt like I

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Speaker 1: swallowed a lump of coal, like something stuck in my throat.

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Speaker 1: I just want to jump up and run to get

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Speaker 1: to my mom and check on her. Okay, what you

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Speaker 1: just brought up something really interesting that I hadn't thought of.

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Speaker 1: Not just that she survived in maniacal killer with a

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Speaker 1: few cuts on her hands, but somehow was drenched in blood.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that right, Melissa that said, yes, No, she's drenched

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Speaker 1: in blood all over the front of her right, correct, Dave.

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Speaker 1: Back back to you. So she's drenched in blood from

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Speaker 1: what the cuts on her hands, But you brought up

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Speaker 1: that she's still an excellent condition. No blow to the head,

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Speaker 1: no gash, no wound to her the back of her head.

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Speaker 1: She is alert, she's not screaming, get the guy, Get

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Speaker 1: the guy. Somebody broke in her house. There's which reminds me.

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Speaker 1: Was there any sign of forced entry, Dave mac at all?

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Speaker 3: None whatsoever that we've been told about at this point, Nancy.

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Speaker 3: And like you said, she's got plenty of time and

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Speaker 3: energy to go around and go outside the house and

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Speaker 3: seek help. So she's able to have her thoughts. She's

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Speaker 3: not freaking out in that she cannot put a thought

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Speaker 3: together here. She's able to go outside and get help.

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Speaker 3: And you know, she didn't seem to be other than

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Speaker 3: the blood on her hands, doesn't seem to be impacted whatsoever.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: That's also curious. She says she's not freaked out, but

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Speaker 1: she did run out of the house to borrow a

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Speaker 1: stranger who was a neighbor, but they didn't really know

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Speaker 1: each other's phone, grabbed the neighbor's phone, and then ran

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Speaker 1: back into the home with it. I wonder why she

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Speaker 1: didn't use a phone in the home, or her own

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Speaker 1: cell phone. I mean, I'm just trying to think this through, Dave.

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Speaker 1: If I found someone injured in our home, I would

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Speaker 1: not run out in the street to try to borrow

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Speaker 1: somebody's phone that may or may not be out there.

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Speaker 1: I would use the home phone if they have one,

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Speaker 1: or my cell phone. That's odd, isn't it. Don't you

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Speaker 1: find that odds?

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Speaker 3: I found it odd that she ran outside the house

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Speaker 3: because her mother is there in the bed, and as mentioned,

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Speaker 3: she's got multiple stab wounds, but she doesn't have the

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Speaker 3: wherewithal to get a phone in the house. I mean,

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Speaker 3: come on, you probably got in that home. You probably

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Speaker 3: still got a wall on, a phone on the wall,

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Speaker 3: not to mention several cell phones from the adults that

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Speaker 3: are there in the home. But instead of any of that,

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Speaker 3: she goes outside, and all I'm thinking, if we're maybe

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Speaker 3: she was outside afraid that the killer inside. I don't

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Speaker 3: know Nancy, it makes no sense. You wouldn't leave your

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Speaker 3: mother in.

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Speaker 1: Bed outside afraid of the killer still in the house.

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Speaker 1: I like that, Dave, He's got a future in fiction. Listen.

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Speaker 3: The eighty one year old Anita Avers found unresponsive in

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Speaker 3: her bed with multiple stab wounds, transported to the hospital,

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Speaker 3: as is her daughter, Angie Mock, the woman who approached

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Speaker 3: police in the street when they arrived. Mack, a former

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Speaker 3: television news anchor reporter, is treated and released from the hospital.

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Speaker 1: Happy Facebook Friday to everyone, and welcome Angimu. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to get here. And I look for

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Speaker 1: a kuduct meeing with you guys out there in Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis from Fox Too.

431
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: The former news anchor was living with her eighty year

432
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 2: old mother in their Wichita home.

433
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 3: On Halloween night.

434
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: The spotlight shifted dramatically onto Mock as events took a

435
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 2: dark turn.

436
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: A dark turn. Again, that's certainly putting perfume on the pig.

437
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: A dark turn. It sounds like a mystery novel. This

438
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: is no mystery novel, and it's not a dark turn.

439
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: It's murder, and it's the murder of a defenseless eighty

440
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: one year old woman apparently bed ridden. You know, I

441
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: just heard something to Melissa McCarty. Is it true that

442
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: the glam Morning TV anchor was living with her mother?

443
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: What in her mother's home? Whose home was that? That's

444
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: what it seems.

445
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 4: So police have not gone on the record to confirm it,

446
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 4: but it seems as though they were living together.

447
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: Hmm, guys, what happened in that bedroom? How did angelin

448
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: mock end up unscathed? She was treated? What? Jim Elliott?

449
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: They spread a little back teen Orner went goodbye, goodbye?

450
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 10: What?

451
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: And the mother's dead? Stab multiple times? You don't you

452
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: don't have a problem with that, because I do.

453
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 7: Well, So I think you know, the difference is an

454
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 7: eighty or eighty when you're a woman versus someone twenty

455
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 7: or thirty years younger. The younger person could arguably be

456
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 7: more able to defend herself than with her mother.

457
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're saying she could defend herself. Okay, I

458
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: see where you're going with that. Doctor pre Banerjy is

459
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: with US doctor Priya Board certified forensic pathologists and anatomic

460
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: pathologist with Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting. Let's just say she's

461
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: seen a lot of dead bodies, Doctor Priya, What is

462
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: the difference between a defensive stab wound and a stab wound?

463
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: You would get to your hands when you are the attacker,

464
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: for instance, your hand sliding down the knife, unless you're

465
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: like Brian Coberger who had a k bar knife which

466
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: has a hilt. What is a hilt? It looks like

467
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: a cross. There is a section that turns the blade,

468
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: it bisects it and if you're the staber, your hand

469
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: would stop at the hilt. Okay, So if there is

470
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: a knife that does not have a hilt, how can

471
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 1: you tell the difference between a wound sustained to the

472
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: hand if you are the stabber versus a defensive wound. Well,

473
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: I think that could be challenging. You need to look

474
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: at where it is. If you're putting your hands up

475
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: this way on the back, that is obviously defensive. You're

476
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: not going to in any way have the knife ub

477
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: use the back of your hand to stab someone now,

478
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: but on the palms and it's really deep. Maybe you

479
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: did have a grabbing motion where the knife slipped. Remember,

480
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: repeated stabs make the knife bloody, which makes it slippery. Earlier,

481
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: you heard a veteran trial lawyer Jim Elliott describe why

482
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: the morning TV news star could have escaped a deranged

483
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: killer unscathed because she's twenty to thirty years younger than

484
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: her eighty one year old mother. Typically, the state does

485
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,479
Speaker 1: not have to prove motive. But I'd be very curious

486
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: to find out who would want to kill an eighty

487
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: one year old little old lady asleep in bed. The

488
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: degree of physical acumen, the lack of aging symptoms, being

489
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: very very physically active. Yes, I could see that as

490
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: it is. Cause let's take a look at Angeline Mock.

491
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: We Ferl's biggest fan Anngie Mock.

492
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 3: Hey, big fan?

493
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: Right? Oh? Huge? Lambert Airport better get ready for me.

494
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: You're going to be there, right, Yeah, I'm Angie Mock

495
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: is a former TV anchor who spent several years waking

496
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 3: up the Saint Louis area anchoring the morning news on

497
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: Fox two. He's spend years as a reporter and anchor

498
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: working for Fox twenty five, Oklahoma City, KLK in Nebraska,

499
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 3: now NBC Montana, and others.

500
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: I love highlighting so many cool and it's interesting things

501
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: that come to the Saint Louis area. How do we

502
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: go about training like the professional.

503
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: Last curve Vaal straight it out.

504
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: Very that's from our friends Fox two News, and we

505
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: showed you that to explain that Jim Elliott is absolutely correct.

506
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: She's in great physical shape. So is that how she

507
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: escapes the deranged killer and her mother does not? To

508
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: Melissa McCarty joining us from Killer Jeans, was there a

509
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: force entry? Did first responders see anyone leaving the home

510
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: or did the neighbor who lent her cell phone to

511
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: mok did she see anyone leaving the home or a

512
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: car speeding away anything like that.

513
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 4: There was no forced entry, and according to police, there

514
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 4: were two people, Angie standing outside the home and her

515
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 4: mom on responsive inside the home.

516
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: That's it. Did she make a statement at all? To

517
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: Dave mac joining US investigative reporter Crime Stories, what if

518
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: anything did Angie Mock have to say?

519
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 3: Well, she hasn't made anything public that we're aware of,

520
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: and only getting secondhand information about what may or may

521
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: not have been said to the nine one one dispatcher.

522
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: Well, you know what, I'm being very clear, Dave. What

523
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: did she say?

524
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 3: She said that she did it in self defense, that

525
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 3: she was trying to save her own life, intimating that

526
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 3: it was a fight with her mother and she had

527
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 3: to use the knife to protect herself.

528
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: Angelaine Mock, the morning TV news anchor, actually says she

529
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: stabbed her mother in self defense. I believe your eloquent

530
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: words were she did it in self defense. What it

531
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: was a kill or be kill situation? Is that where

532
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: you're saying, Dave Mac that.

533
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: Is exactly what I am saying that she claims.

534
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: Oh my stars, what a difference a night can make.

535
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: Check out Angie mak in that photo. Ouch, there's a

536
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: side by side. I don't want to be part of that. Okay,

537
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: hold on, Jim Elliott, you're the veteran child lawyer. I

538
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: guess this is one of the reasons you tell your

539
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: clients shut your pie hole. Is anybody going to believe

540
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: that Angelain Mock was defeating herself against her bedridden mother

541
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: and a killer bee killed situation? I mean, how do

542
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 1: you even look at a judge.

543
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 7: She's gonna have to explain that, And I mean I

544
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 7: guess they'll come up with some concept of who knows

545
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 7: physical or mental abuse over her lifetime or something of

546
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 7: that sort that she may attribute it to.

547
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, Jim Elliott. Now again you're just

548
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: spinning it out. Put it in that, please, Jim Elliott.

549
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: I'm you have children. I assume you read them the

550
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: story of Rumpel Steelskin. Yes, of course, yes, okay, so

551
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,919
Speaker 1: you know where I'm going with this. Rumpel Stilskin took

552
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: Hay and he just spun it out into gold. And

553
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: that's what you're doing right now, now do you, Jim Elliott?

554
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: And again, you're a veteran trial war law. Your record

555
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: shows you want a lot of cases. You represent multiple

556
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: state and local municipalities. You're actually somehow coming up with

557
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: the theory that this anchor can I see her, please,

558
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 1: that the TV anchor who can add lib, who can rescript,

559
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: who can do all sorts stuff on air, antics that

560
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: she endured a lifetime of either physical, mental, or emotional abuse.

561
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: Did you just throw that out as a possibility, Jim Elliott.

562
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 7: It's a possibility, certainly.

563
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: And we don't know exactly.

564
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 7: I mean, all she said was to save myself.

565
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 10: We don't know what that means.

566
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 7: We don't know where that means physically, whether there were

567
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 7: other issues that play in their relationship or in her

568
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 7: life or our mother's life, and I think that has

569
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 7: to be fully explored before we can understand.

570
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: But she's gonna have to explain my stars. I need

571
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: a shrink crime stories with Nancy Grace insane or explosively intoxicated? Now.

572
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: I asked that question because, according to a probable cause affidavit,

573
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: Mock's stepfather, Barry, told police Mock had been laid off

574
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: from her TV anchor job and after quote an explosive

575
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: situation involving alcohol. Hmmm. He also told police Mott was

576
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Now that's later, according to sources,

577
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: being advised to get so effective disorder. And as we

578
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: have learned from the Nick Reiner case, voluntary use of

579
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol is not a defense, and if it

580
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: exacerbates makes worse a mental condition such as schizophrenia or bipolar.

581
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if a jury will excuse the behavior

582
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: of the defendant if their own drinking or drugs made

583
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: matters worse and then they committed a crime. That's a

584
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: fun thing for the jury to figure out. But first,

585
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: let's review the facts as we know them. Karen, start,

586
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: how many times do your clients blame mommy? You know

587
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: I've started a fund for my daughter and son for

588
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: a shrink someday, because I'm sure they're gonna blame everything

589
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 1: on me. Yes, mommy told me I was fill in

590
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: the blank. My mommy made me fill in that blank.

591
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: It's all mommy's fault. Did you hear Elliott? The woman

592
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: is bedridden. She's eighty one years old. I don't know

593
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: care what she told you when you were five years

594
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: old to stand up straight and at your vegetables. What

595
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: did you hear that? Because that's where this is going.

596
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 8: It doesn't make any sense it really, if you think

597
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 8: about it.

598
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: Yes, mothers, fathers, they.

599
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 8: Really affect their children growing up.

600
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: And that's a fact.

601
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 8: Whatever is going on this we're talking now about an

602
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 8: adult and a mother who.

603
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: Is eighty eighty one.

604
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 8: There was no reason for that to still be held

605
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 8: over and something that's in her psyche. At this point,

606
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 8: she's gone on with her life and she should be

607
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 8: doing really well and not be blaming anybody, Karen, because she's.

608
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,479
Speaker 1: Independent, Karen, you keep talking about it in her mind.

609
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: We don't even know if there is anything that the

610
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: now dead mom did the eighty one year old. For

611
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: all I know, she was an incredible mom. We're just

612
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 1: you are actually buy into Jim Elliott's theory that maybe

613
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: maybe this woman was emotionally abused by her mom for

614
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: years and years and years, so she just had a

615
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: stabber dead. Well, that's the whole point.

616
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 8: It doesn't matter what their relationship was like. It really

617
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 8: does announcing because at this stage in her life she's

618
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 8: a functioning we assume adult, and she should not be

619
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 8: caring any kind of feelings about her mother.

620
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: That's interfering.

621
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 8: What would make her Who would do that stab their

622
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 8: own mother?

623
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 1: That hardly ever happens.

624
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 2: Police responded to a reported stabbing at Mock's residence. Angeline

625
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 2: was found outside, claiming she acted in self defense after

626
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: stabbing her mother. Inside, officers discover her mother in bed

627
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 2: suffering from multiple stablerers.

628
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: Okay, this is a tactic that will likely be used

629
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: by the state if this case goes forward. All of

630
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 1: the clips that we're showing you, every word Angie Mock

631
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: has uttered on air will be combed through and used

632
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: if possible, in court to show that she was in

633
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: her right mind. I mean, well, this is why there's

634
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: got to be a mental defect defense, because she blurreded

635
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: it out at the get and go listen.

636
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 5: Raised about five to six nights, and that's with her mom.

637
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: She's also in wells from home. Yeah, it was wonderful.

638
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: Family was in town. They're leaving today. I don't know

639
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: where my tissues are. That's all right. Family's in town,

640
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: they're leaving today. That was from my friends at k

641
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 1: a k E and Fox too. I want to hear

642
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: that one more time, what she said on the scene

643
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: or to the nine one one dispatch and then her

644
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 1: crying about her family leaving after the holiday. Let's watch

645
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: that one more time about five to sixty nine.

646
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 9: And that's apparently with her mom.

647
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 5: She's also.

648
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: Good. Yeah, Oh, it was wonderful. Family was in town.

649
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: They're leaving today. I don't know where my tissues are.

650
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: That's all right. Yeah, they don't have those fancy soft

651
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: ply tissues behind bars, Miss Mark. That's from k a

652
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: K E and Fox to Okay. Dan Murphy, former NYPD

653
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: detective sergeant, and so much more, author of workplace safety

654
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: co host gold Shields podcast. It goes on and on

655
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: and on thoughts.

656
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 5: There's so many thoughts about this. When she came out

657
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 5: of the house and said what she said, Allegedly she's

658
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 5: putting herself as the person responsible for it.

659
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: The reasons for it.

660
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 5: Can get figured out later when you look at this situation.

661
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 5: She's living with her mother for whatever reason, maybe as

662
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 5: a caretaker, maybe a.

663
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: Financial need, probably rent free. I'll just throw that in.

664
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Speaker 1: Go ahead, Sorry, that's one our friends at Fox. To everybody,

665
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Dan, go ahead looks as the life.

666
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 5: Has helped her a very bad set of hand, bad hand,

667
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 5: so to speak, set of cards. She does not look

668
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 5: like the same person. Something is on a down slide,

669
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,479
Speaker 5: and maybe she blames the mother for things in her life,

670
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 5: sees the mother as holding her back in many reasons.

671
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 5: I would love to know the story, the true dynamic

672
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 5: in the relationship, why she's living there, what caused this?

673
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 5: In any other domestic calls there? What would lead her

674
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 5: to this? Maybe it's narcissism, Maybe she.

675
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: Her fake I'm sorry, but are you?

676
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 3: Are you.

677
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: A mental health professional? Because I thought you were former NYPD?

678
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: To take a sergeant, I am, which.

679
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 5: Is equivalent to a master's in psychology in many ways.

680
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: Dan, Okay, you and I both know that motive is

681
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: not required. I don't care.

682
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 10: I mean, my.

683
00:42:55,200 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 1: Non prosecutor side does care. But I'm talking about the

684
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: facts that we're going to put in front of a jury.

685
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: I am asking you. You're the former NYPD, and I

686
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 1: keep saying that because you have more cases than practically

687
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: any other jurisdiction in the country that you have handled.

688
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: Personally analyze the facts. We'll deal with her mental defect

689
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: defense that she's really paining herself in a corner with

690
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: because she came out with self defense, so she stuck

691
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: with it. That's not going away. She admitted she did

692
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: it in self defense. Of course I don't believe that,

693
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: and I want to hear what you think about the facts,

694
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: not your amateur opinion, as mine would be too. I'm

695
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: not a shrink about why she did it. Why does

696
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: somebody stab a bed ridden eighty one year old woman?

697
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: Don't care the bear facts. Scene cops get to the scene.

698
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 5: She lives in the home with the mother, and she

699
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 5: is covered in blood, which is indicative of somebody who

700
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 5: has either embraced a dead body covered in blood or

701
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 5: somebody who himself was responsible for it. And the blood

702
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 5: comes out arterial spurts and things like that. Second, she's

703
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 5: got defensive wounds potentially or potentially from a handslideing down

704
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 5: a knife that's being in a frenzied attack, being used

705
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 5: to attack somebody. She makes a statement indicating she did it.

706
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 5: There's no evidence of entry by anyone else into the residence.

707
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 5: She's the only person responsible. She's taking responsibility. The mother

708
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 5: is bedridden and possible couldn't possibly have posed a threat

709
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 5: with a knife to her daughter Fairfax, No other suspect.

710
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: Here's a look at our top stories. Several victims survived

711
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: a hail of bullets and two separate shootings, but those

712
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: shootings were at the exact same location.

713
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,919
Speaker 3: A glamorous TV news anchor, mox stands charged with first

714
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 3: degree murder for the fatal stabbing of her eighty one

715
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 3: year old mother, Anita Avers.

716
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: From Fox Too. What more are we learning tonight? A

717
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: glam TV anchor deemed insane or incompetent after stabbing her

718
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,479
Speaker 1: mother dead. We've also learned that during a card game

719
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: about a week before the murder, Mock accused her family

720
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: of hating her and stated that she hated them. Now,

721
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: how does that play into now claiming insanity, insane, incompetent,

722
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: drunk on drugs, condition exacerbated. We don't know yet, But

723
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: what I do know is that eighty one year old

724
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: mom was stabbed multiple times in her own bed. We

725
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,