1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Long Shot is a production of McClatchy Studios and I 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Previously on Return man Field, he hits the 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: deep end of the corner at the ducan. This time 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: dr will come out with it. Since we've known that 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: people exposed to many concussions couldn't lead them to be demented, 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: just like someone with Alzheimer's disease, but at a much 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: younger age. He was very free with his money, like 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: at which was a lot of money in Jim had 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: some problems, but I didn't remember what they were. Man, 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:51,319 Speaker 1: I did not get involved. An unnatural quiet hangs over 11 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: South Carolina State College today, the day after state highway 12 00:00:55,280 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: patrolman opened fire on rampaging students. By the time moved 13 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: back to his hometown Lancaster and South Carolina, we're struggling 14 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: with their own transitions. Three students are dead. It has 15 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: been called one of the ugliest racial confrontations in the South. 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: In modern times, bloody civil rights battles like this one 17 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: at South Carolina State University were becoming somewhat less common, 18 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: and the a c P leaders demanded that steps be 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: taken immediately to put a stop to what they see 20 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: as open police brutality. But if the mechanics of inequality 21 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: were changing, the mindset behind it was stubbornly entrenched. We 22 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: had decentregration and nine with schools. Floyd White has lived 23 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: in Lancaster for almost sixty years. He was one of 24 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,279 Speaker 1: Jim's coaches at bar Street High the black high school 25 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: in town six and then start putting the black teams 26 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: in the school, and then the next year which integre 27 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: a few years before lawmakers in Columbia, South Carolina. He's 28 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: a Confederate flag over the Capitol Dome, a defiant symbol 29 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: in the face of the civil rights movement. They're in 30 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: small town Lancashire. The most vivid example of change was 31 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: the school integration Floyd White lived through as a coach, 32 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: when Jim's alma mater once again changed its name to 33 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: Lancaster High School Campus two. What's it when we integrated 34 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: to high school? L High School came Laon High School 35 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: and number one and it would be juniors and Senior 36 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: Street became Black High School, Campbell to the ninth grades 37 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: and grades? What was it like though? I mean it 38 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: had to be tense. It was no, it was good. 39 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: Why do you think there was because we at the 40 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: Bright School too, and what's gonna be high, It's gonna 41 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: be We kept it in front of Kevin, in front 42 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: of Kevin and excepted. He told me. Integration went more 43 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: smoothly in Lancashire, not because of less racism there, but 44 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: because they did a better job of teaching the black 45 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: children to expect it. Kids went to and I had 46 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: the flag I called flag compared to flag, you know, 47 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: did he We don't play really, so they saw the 48 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: Confederate flag and they just but they always kind of 49 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: banded together. Didn't new unity instrument, so it kept together. Yeah. 50 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: I read a letter to the editor from around that time, 51 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: written by a Lancaster resident to the Charlotte Observer. The 52 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: letter writer was upset the newspaper had described the Ku 53 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: Klux Klan as a hate group. He insisted, quote, your 54 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: writings on the clan and others who are aware of 55 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: basic racial differences show a bias on your part to 56 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: the extent of irresponsible journalism. That's the environment Jim Crash 57 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: landed back into in the fall of nineteen two, coming 58 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: down in front of the goal of both at the 59 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: Blue Eid. I'm the duncan up to the fifteen. He 60 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: was a one time super Bowl hero and a black 61 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: man with inward demons and an outward love of women, nightlife, 62 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: and audacious cars. He was practically a six ft two 63 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: embodiment of the change that frightened so many in Lancaster. 64 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: In Baltimore, those things helped make him the celebrity be 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: front of the corner, Duncker wills come out whatever, But 66 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: in Lancaster they might have made him a target. Look 67 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: Out Duncan at the Kansas City forty nine yard Ye 68 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: from the Herald, McClatchy Studios and I Heart Radio. This 69 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: is return Man. I'm Brett McCormick, and this is part 70 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: four October two. That's summer of seventy two. The plan 71 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: was that Jim would go to Saints training camp in 72 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: New Orleans. Alice wasn't getting along with Jim's mother, so 73 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: she would leave the house in Lancaster and temporarily moved 74 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: back in with her parents in Greenville. He was going 75 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: to be what the Saints. Alice declined to lend her 76 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: voice to this podcast, but we spoke for nearly four hours. 77 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: Were you like thinking about moving to New Orleans? Or 78 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: she planned to join Jim in New Orleans as soon 79 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: as training camp ended. But almost as soon as Jim arrived, 80 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: people there could tell something was wrong. Not a doctor, 81 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: I'm an athletic trainer, but no, you can tell what 82 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: things are bothering people, and Jim seemed to be just 83 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: always seemed to be bothered with something. Dean klein Schmidt 84 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: was a twenty five year old athletic trainer for the Saints. 85 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: He went on to work forty years in the NFL 86 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: and was inducted into the National Athletic Trainers Hall of Fame. 87 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: Clein Schmidt said, Jim arrived to the Saints out of 88 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: shape and under a dark cloud. He was not a 89 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: coup later, he was not a revel rouser. He was 90 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: not that at all. I think he was more to himself. 91 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: You know, I don't remember every title players Miles, but 92 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: I don't remember him being the fun, loving jokes. I 93 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: don't remember that at all. You know, I remember him 94 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: being quiet, and Jim could put on a brave face 95 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: when he had to, like when he told the local Times, 96 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: picking you in newspaper quote, I like New Orleans a 97 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: lot enough to want to make it my home. Maybe 98 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: my bad luck is behind me now, but inside the 99 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: locker room, Jim couldn't hide his troubles. I mean, they 100 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: can have family problems, they can have whatever, still play. 101 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: But I remember Jim would have gotten the Super Bowl 102 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: chap right bonus, Yeah yeah, And he made some kind 103 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: of stingment about I just never realized that having so 104 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: much money would create so many problems. And him on 105 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: a great play by Jim Duncan made two good tackles 106 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: coming up from the quarterback position. Saints management wondered if 107 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: a blow to the head had affected Jim mentally, so 108 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: they took what was at the time an unusual step 109 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: of sending the NFL player to a psychiatrist named Dr Williams. 110 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: Sor Um. Today, a psychiatrist telling reporters about a patient's 111 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: mental health would be a flagrant violation of federal privacy law, 112 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: but those laws were only enacted in so at least legally, 113 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: Storm could speak freely about his semi famous patient, his 114 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: expert opinion, which he told to the Philadelphia Inquiry. At 115 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: the time, Duncan was depressed, but football was good therapy, 116 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: he said. Quote. By the time I saw him, he 117 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: seemed to be on the road to recovery. Had he 118 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: continued to play football, I think he would have worked 119 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: things out and made a complete recovery. Jim continued his 120 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: playing slump in New Orleans, and the Saints waived him 121 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: before the season began. For football fans, two stands out 122 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: for a different reason, the Miami Dolphins going undefeated, becoming 123 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: one of the most celebrated teams in sports history. It 124 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: turns out Jim caught a glimpse of that himself. After 125 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: he was weighed by the Saints. Jim was invited to 126 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: Miami by head coach Don Shula, who had originally helped 127 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: draft Jim in nineteen when he coached the Baltimore Colts. 128 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: But Jim was just as out of sorts in Miami. 129 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: Shula told The New York Times in nineteen seventy two, quote, 130 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: we were hoping he'd be a backup defensive back and 131 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: run back kickoffs for us. But he wasn't covering well 132 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: and he lost some of his speed. One of the 133 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: best moments of Jim's life had occurred there in Miami's 134 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: Orange Bowl, where the Colts won Super Bowl five less 135 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: than two years later, he said, on the bench in 136 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: that stadium, watching the Dolphins play their final preseason game 137 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: of seventy two. He was cut three days later. The 138 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: first thing I did ask what the Saints was, did 139 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 1: you do a physical? I'm not sure that he was 140 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: there long enough. The first time Alice heard about any 141 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: of her husband's time in Miami was when I told 142 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: her so. After he got cut by the Saints September 143 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: seven or something like that, he signed with the Dolphins 144 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: for like a few days, which would have been Shula 145 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: was down there, but he was only with them very briefly, 146 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: and then he got cut again, and then he was 147 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: back in Lancaster. So yeah, I mean, it's just a 148 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: it's a lot. You're probably like, what are you doing here? 149 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: Those Dolphins finished that season, laying claim to being the 150 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: greatest team ever. Jim came back to Lancaster. His football 151 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: career was over. We'll be back in a moment. M 152 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: Jim arrived back to the house on Isom Street in 153 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: September of nine. A Lancaster phone book from that year 154 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: indicates he was employed at a local dry cleaner, though 155 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: it's unclear how long he worked there or what kind 156 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: of money he made. It's one of the many things 157 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: about the following few weeks that are tough to get 158 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: a firm handle on. Do you think something had been 159 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: going badly for him? Do you think he would have 160 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: told you or would he be the kind that would 161 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: like chield you from it. Yeah, I can see that 162 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: Jim's brother, Elroy, was living in nearby Charlotte by the 163 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: time Jim returned home to Lancaster. If you don't want 164 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: me to see him and and like, are great tonight? 165 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing bad that I could tell you 166 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: about what other than he just loved one. A few 167 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: people I spoke with said Jim liked to smoke marijuana, 168 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: but that was hardly unusual in the seventies, especially considering 169 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: the professional environment he came from. Forget drug testing. NFL 170 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: team doctors had fishing tackle boxes full of painkillers and 171 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: other medications they gave out to help players on the field. 172 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: He smoked a little bit. That could be a way 173 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: that you're dealing with whatever tic a little bit uh 174 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: back then, you know, like they're part of him, and 175 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: they stayed out late at night, so they need some 176 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: type of pill to keep going. Yeah, yeah, medically, Kevin, 177 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: you wouldn't believe, you know, And it was all doctors 178 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: described as the doctor's back. Then they took care of 179 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: their athletes. Bob Grant, who played with Jim in Baltimore, 180 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: told me those pills may have been a gateway to 181 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: something more serious. Speedy developed a problem addiction to heroin, 182 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: and the Baltimore Coats did send them to one of 183 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: the rehab clinics. Now, I never actually saw him do it, 184 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: but I had heard from our old teammates and from ownership. 185 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: You know that Speedy has this problem. Even with his 186 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: football career hanging by a threat, Jim couldn't stay clean. 187 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: I tried to keep an eye on it. One afternoon, 188 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: I guess it just got to it, and uh, he says, 189 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: I gotta go. I try to say, no, Speedy, Uh 190 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: you know, stay here. You know what are you gonna make? No? No, no, no, 191 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: I've got to go and I've got to see some people. 192 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: He went, and uh, you know, he scored. You know, 193 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: broke my heart. I picked it kind of broke his 194 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: heart too, because he was embarrassed. I didn't try to 195 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: chastise him or say anything like you do it. I 196 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: think the one thing that I might he says, Okay, 197 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: you've got that out of your system to start over again. 198 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: None of Jim's NFL medical records are available. Neither the 199 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 1: New Orleans Saints nor the Indianapolis Colts, the franchise that 200 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: now holds Baltimore Colts Records, had anything in their archives 201 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: about him. Players and executives I spoke with said they 202 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: had no indication Jim was using hard drugs, and Grant 203 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: said he didn't initially pick up on it either, but 204 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: not because Jim hit it, just because drug use of 205 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: some sort was so common in an NFL locker room 206 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: for players to perform in games. He had doctors who 207 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: were giving speed and the other operas, and they were 208 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: there for the asking. You just told the doctor what 209 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: you wanted and the doctor gave those to you. And 210 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: when someone was in the can altered state, I think 211 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: that people knew so at the risk of offending some people, 212 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: I don't care who it was, player, coach, staff, or 213 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: anyone who says that they didn't know it, bullshit, Yes 214 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: they did. If a drug habit followed Jim back home 215 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: to Lancaster. Alice said she never saw it, and that 216 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: makes sense because I don't think it would be something 217 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: that he was proud of or anything like that. But 218 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: then again, she told me she's come to understand how 219 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: much he didn't know about her former husband. And I 220 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: think that that was something that was kept from everybody 221 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: in Lancaster. It's clear Jim grew increasingly disconnect it from 222 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: his life of just a few months earlier. He doesn't 223 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: seem to have been training or staying in shape in 224 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: case an NFL team called. People there at the time. 225 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: Mostly remember seeing him drinking at a downtown pool hall. 226 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: I saw him one day half here, he s here 227 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: and going toward half school. We had to go through 228 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: bushes and stuff. Floyd White was one of Jim's high 229 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: school coaches in Lancaster. He lived near Jim's family on 230 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: Isom Street. We're seeing Jim's brothers and sisters walked by. 231 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: It was just part of daily life. And to talk 232 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: to him, you see wait, wait, wia He was strung out. 233 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: He was. He always called me you will. It's evident 234 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: no one in Lancaster completely grasped the severity of Jim's 235 00:14:54,360 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: issues personal, professional, financial, mental, or otherwise. Even Alice, who 236 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: represented the closest thing Jim had to personal stability, was 237 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: still back in Greenville, living with her parents. That that 238 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: was interesting because I don't think anybody was really aware 239 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: of what was going on with him. Some news reports 240 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: later suggested she and Jim were in the midst of 241 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: a divorce, but Alice firmly disputes that. However, she did 242 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: tell me that by October of seventy two, Jim's behavior 243 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: was making her uneasy and at times even made her 244 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: feel unsafe. You know, it appeared that there was like 245 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: a pattern that was kind of starting to develop, which 246 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: had worried you. That's scary, Yeah, I mean that you 247 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: were worried for him, but also that you were kind 248 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: of like, I wanted to be careful in the situations 249 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: you were in with him. On Friday, October of that year, 250 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: Jim drove to Greenville to see her. You saw you 251 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: saw him the week before he passed away. How how 252 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: long had he been there? Was that like a short 253 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: visit or had he been there for a week or 254 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: something or Jim stayed one night and left for Lancaster 255 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: earlier than next day. That Saturday morning was the last 256 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: time she saw him alive. After three years of investigating 257 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: Jim's life and interviewing dozens of people, here's what we 258 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: know about Friday, October two, or what we know with 259 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: as much certainty as anyone can. It was a cold 260 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: morning in Lancaster, just creeping into the thirties, the sort 261 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: of cold that catches the South. By surprise, Jim was 262 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: living in the Isom Street house he bought for his family, 263 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: and he'd spent at least some of the previous night there. 264 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: Jim's mother, Ellery, later said that he spent that evening 265 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: playing with his eighteen month old brother. Moral United's Cleburne. 266 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: Alice told me that by that morning she hadn't talked 267 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: to Jim in a week. Jim's mother later told reporters 268 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: about one of her last conversations with Jim, which scared her. 269 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: Ellery said Jim confided in her that an unnamed person 270 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: in town had been threatening him. Ellerie died years ago, 271 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 1: so it's impossible to know for sure what was said 272 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: between the two. Perhaps she misremembered the conversation, or Jim 273 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: might have been confused or even hallucinating. But Bob Grant, 274 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: Jim's best friend in Baltimore, mentioned another aspect of Jim's 275 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: life that could be relevant his infidelity. A bachelorhood he 276 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: says Jim never quite gave up and a color blind 277 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: love life that stood out in a southern milltown struggling 278 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: with basic integration. He was worn by the police and 279 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: stopped a number of times because he was driving the 280 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: big car thinking he and I had talked about it, 281 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: and I don't think that anybody else in Lancaster. I 282 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: had a Lincoln Mark three whiter black in his was 283 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: canary yellow, so there was no weight that you could 284 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: miss that, but was warned about well when Speedy returned 285 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: to Lancaster after New Orleans, even before he was dating 286 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 1: a few of the local white girls. I don't think 287 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: that it was anything serious or anything like that. Yeah, 288 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 1: he was a hometown hero, you know, as a ball player, 289 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: but even then there were certain lines that you kind 290 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: of didn't cross. You know, he was still a colored 291 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: man back there. Today he may not make that much difference, 292 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: but at that time it was something that some people 293 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: were obviously threatened by. The Other thing was I didn't 294 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: want to surprise you that. I didn't want you to 295 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: read it and just be like what you know. Alice 296 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: told me she's aware of claims about Jim's unfaithfulness, which 297 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 1: continued until the day he died. During her time with Jim, 298 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: there was a paternity suit brought against him by another 299 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,239 Speaker 1: woman in nearby Winnsboro, South Carolina. U el Roy had 300 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: told me that Jim had a had a kid with 301 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: a woman in Winnsboro, South Carolina. Alice told me she 302 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: was aware of the allegation and that Jim and his 303 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: mother had even gone to court about it. One day. 304 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: They're at the same Lancaster courthouse where he and Alice 305 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: had married. I wasn't able to find any official records 306 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 1: of the case or its resolution, but Alice told me 307 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: firmly that the child was not Jim's. Oh wow, Okay, 308 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: maybe a claim that was made, Okay. That Friday, October, 309 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: we know Jim drove his mother to the ABC liquor 310 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: store where she worked. Elleri later told The New York 311 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: Times quote. He didn't act depressed or anything. That morning. 312 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: He told me he was heading for home, and that's 313 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: the last time that I saw him. After dropping her off, 314 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: Jim reportedly stopped at two different gas stations. At one 315 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: he asked for an ice scraper, At the other some 316 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: manny freeze. When he died. We'll believe it on the 317 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: same street. Glenn Crawford grew up down the street from Jim. 318 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: As kids, they played sandlot football together. I saw him 319 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: that morning, really yeah. He passed my house to go 320 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: to his house the way we were situated, man, and 321 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: he looked, well did he looked just in the days 322 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 1: like driving when he passed and I hollered at him 323 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: and he kept going. But that's we didn't have a conversation. Yeah, 324 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: he normally would have said something to you, right, yeah, 325 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: but he was like in the day's. It's not clear 326 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: exactly what time that was, but Jim was next scene 327 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: for sure. Around eleven am, he parked his yellow convertible 328 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: downtown outside the offices for the Lancaster News, the only 329 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: newspaper in town owned by Springs Mills. Jim walked across 330 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: the street into a local pond shop, which sold everything 331 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: from diamonds to firearms. As Alice understands it, Jim was 332 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: there to buy a gun. Huh. Okay. There's a lot 333 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: of evidence at points to the fact that he was 334 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: struggling with a lot of things, Like it seems to 335 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: me there was a lot on his mind like that 336 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: he just was troubled. But Jim was only in the 337 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: pawn shop briefly, Alice said, Jim was told that he 338 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: needed additional paperwork for that kind of purchase and that 339 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: he would have to get it from the police station. 340 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: It's not clear what sort of paperwork might have been 341 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: needed or why Jim had to go to the police 342 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: station to get it. I couldn't independently confirm the story, 343 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: Alice was told, but it's the closest thing we have 344 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: to an answer for why Jim was in the police 345 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: station at all. We'll be right back. We're gonna turn 346 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: out to the questions surrounding the suicide of NFL Grape Jr. 347 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: Say out is shocking suicide just eight months ago, a 348 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: gunshot to the chest, some speculating he knew his brain 349 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: needed to be preserved for examination. Alice told me Jim 350 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: might have wanted a gun as protection from the person 351 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: he said was threatening him. The football world has been 352 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: rocked this week by the sad death of a former 353 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: star or safety. Dave Durson took his own life. He 354 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: could have wanted a gun for other reasons. The fifty 355 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: year old killed himself with a gunshot to the chest. 356 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: Durson asked his brain be examined for chronic traumatic and 357 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: cephalopathy or CTE. Jim hadn't seen his wife in a week. 358 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: There's every reason to believe that he was depressed, and 359 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: many of his behaviors that friends and family found strange 360 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: could have been symptoms of ct caused by head trauma 361 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: from his football career. He's tagged, and I mean rather rudely, 362 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: by Andre Waters. There's another tragic outcome the general public 363 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: often links with CTE. Remember thousand six, Andre Waters, forty 364 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: six years old, decided to put a gun into his head. 365 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: But Jeff victor Off caution that the connection between CTE 366 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: and suicide isn't its clear cut. There are very few 367 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: cases that have legitimate comparisons between brain and behavior. Victor 368 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: Roff is the neurologist at the University of Southern California. 369 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: He wrote the textbook on Concussions and Traumatic Encephalopathy. Ordinarily, 370 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: if we do something called clinical pathological correlation, you study 371 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: a person during their life, wait for them to die, 372 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: and then cut their brain and look at it. At 373 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: that point you can sort of say, ah, this behavior 374 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: seems to be due to this brain change. Victor Roff 375 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: has examined dozens of cases of former athletes who are 376 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: diagnosed with CT after their debts, nothing will come out. 377 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: Whatever he found, psychiatric problems were pretty common, but suicidal 378 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: behavior was not. Unfortunately, almost no one is studied the 379 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: SCOTT during their life, doing all the tests they need 380 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: to been waiting for them to die in after that, 381 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: looking to see what kind of brain changes, explain what 382 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: kind of behavior. That work started in al CRUs disease 383 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen o seven and it has not even begun 384 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: in CT. Two large blocks away from the pawn shop 385 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 1: is the Lancaster Police Station, which said on the west 386 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 1: side of Main Street, directly next to the courthouse where 387 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,239 Speaker 1: Jim and Alice married. That two story police station has 388 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: since been demolished, but at the time, the front door 389 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: of the white brick building opened into a small reception 390 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: area which was covered in dark wood panety. Inside the 391 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: doorway faced a long reception desk running parallel to the 392 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: back wall. On that back wall was the seal for 393 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: the City of Lancaster, next to framed eight by ten 394 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: photos of the department's former police chiefs. Every one of 395 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: them was white, as was the vast majority of the 396 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 1: police department at the time. Just a few steps inside 397 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: the front door, A chest high counter separated visitors from 398 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: the receptionist and from the police dispatcher who sat next 399 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: to her. Photos from the time show a few gumball 400 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: machines on the far right end of that counter. Past 401 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: them was a short haulway that led to the administrative offices, 402 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: including for the Lancaster Police Chief, a thirty six year 403 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: old marine veteran from Savannah, Georgia named Larry Louer. By 404 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: that October, Lower had been in Lancaster about seven months. Hi, 405 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: my name is Brett McCormick. I work at a newspaper 406 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: in South Carolina. I reached Lower at his home in Savannah, 407 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: but he declined to let us use his voice in 408 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: this podcast, and come across your name and wandered, have 409 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: you got some time to talk on the phone. He 410 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: seemed a bit caught off guard. Uh, it was about 411 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: the NFL player that committed suicide in Lancaster, but I 412 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: think he mostly wanted to know reporter was calling about 413 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: an incident from nearly half a century ago. It was, 414 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: it was it has been a long time. He told 415 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: me quote, there's nothing I can recall. Thank you, And 416 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: that was it. Wow. Also there in the reception area 417 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: that morning was a fifty two year old lieutenant named 418 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: Russell Henson. His sturdy build and a shock of red 419 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: hair made him stick out in the crowd. Colleagues just 420 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: called him read that Friday morning in nineteen seventy two. 421 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: The side arm on Henson's right hip was a Smith 422 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: and Wesson thirty eight caliber Chief Special Revolver. Two things 423 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: were unusual about that First, he wore his own personal 424 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: holster that day, not the department standard issue holster. The 425 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: leather holster he wore had a snapdown strap across the 426 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 1: top to keep a gun from falling out, and was 427 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: more typical of plain clothes detectives than a uniformed lieutenant. 428 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: The second unusual thing was that officers didn't normally wear 429 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: their guns inside the building. For example, Chief Lour reportedly 430 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: removed his gun as soon as he arrived and stored 431 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: it in his filing cabinet, But Henson was wearing his 432 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: gun around eleven am that morning when Jim found himself 433 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: in the reception area of the police station. I mean, 434 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: the store comes up all the time with my main 435 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: being moral, right eyes clamorant, so you know, telling my 436 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: oldest brother played with the Colts. He's deceased. You know 437 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: what happened. We know that a short time later a 438 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: bullet from Henson's gun ripped through Jim's skull and ricocheted 439 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: off the wood paneling nearby. The story was that my 440 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: brother took a gun off of the police officer and 441 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: shot himself in the head. The former football players two 442 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: pound frame collapsed to the ground in the small hallway 443 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: to the right of the counter. He was dead before 444 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,479 Speaker 1: the ambulance arrived. Anything's possible, but again, no one's been 445 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: to talk about it. Never has this been something that 446 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: anybody remotely seen interested in talking about. Jim Duncan was 447 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: twenty six years old for nearly fifty years. That's about 448 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: all we've known for sure until now. And on part 449 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: five of Return Man, everybody suicide. When police look good 450 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: back in the day, at a smaller agency that may 451 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: not have been leading the charge of police reform and professionalization, 452 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: a lot of ship happened that never got reported. Historically, 453 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: corners keep all their records in their home. Unfortunately, the 454 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: year that you're looking for, along with many other years, 455 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: is missing, just totally missing. And just to be clear, 456 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: so you. You would have been sitting at the desk 457 00:28:53,800 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 1: and he just walked right by. I'm Brett McCormick. Return 458 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: Man is a production of The Herald, McClatchy Studios and 459 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. It's produced by Matt Walsh, Kara Tabor, 460 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: Kata Stevens, Rachel Wise, and Davin Coburn. The executive producer 461 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: for I Heart Radio is Sean Titone. For lots more 462 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: on this story, go to Harold online dot com Slash 463 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: return Man. If you have any additional information about Jim 464 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: Duncan's life or death, email us at return Man at 465 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: Harold online dot com. To continue supporting this kind of work, 466 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: visit Harold online dot com slash Podcasts and consider a 467 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: digital subscription. And for more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 468 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,479 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 469 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows,