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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh

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Speaker 1: Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant with Jerry. We're eating

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Speaker 1: barbecue style. Actually it's not true. This is I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna fess up. We don't have any barbecue in front

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Speaker 1: of listening. It sucks. Yeah, you're right, Uh, vegetarians and

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Speaker 1: vegans may not be interested in this one. It's still interesting.

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Speaker 1: I would never encourage someone to tune out, but um,

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Speaker 1: I have I do all the time. Do you sure

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Speaker 1: some jerk rights? And it's like, oh, how sounds like

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Speaker 1: you're still going on Caney all the time, Like, don't

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Speaker 1: go listen to something else? Pal okay, I see what

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Speaker 1: you mean. I mean before we record a podcast. On

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Speaker 1: the podcast, as we record a podcast at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the oh gotcha, I don't say like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: might not want to listen to this, but um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might not want to listen to this. But I

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Speaker 1: imagine if a vegan saw how Barbecue Works probably be like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll just wait. Yeah, they're probably not going to fall

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Speaker 1: for it, wait for the Tofu episode, which we owe them.

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Speaker 1: Now after doing this one I had fried tofu and

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Speaker 1: uh Chicago, No no, no. In Toronto at our recent

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Speaker 1: show there it was. It was one of those sushi

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Speaker 1: places where they bring you out a little piece of

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Speaker 1: fried tofu. Yeah. Oh man, I can't believe I'm blanking,

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Speaker 1: but yes, I know what you mean. Is that like

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Speaker 1: a there's your name for it, like the custom of

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Speaker 1: it or no, the dish the piece of fried tofu

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Speaker 1: with a little maybe Ponzi sauce on it and some

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Speaker 1: scaions delicious. This one was okay, but it was that

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Speaker 1: it was one of the worst sushi meals I've ever

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Speaker 1: had in my life. I just chose wrong, like bad

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Speaker 1: sushi or bad rest, bad everything I walked in And

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Speaker 1: it's hard to tell because no, no, no, I won't

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Speaker 1: name it. I don't even remember that. No no, that's

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Speaker 1: the name of the dish. Oh yeah. Um. Like in

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Speaker 1: l A, some of the best sushi are these strip

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Speaker 1: mall holes in the wall. Sometimes sometimes it's not the case,

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Speaker 1: though sometimes it is though, Like literally, some of the

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Speaker 1: best sushi that you don't have to go to some

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Speaker 1: fancy place and spend four are these you know, small

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Speaker 1: family run run by Japanese people. Um. This one in Toronto.

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Speaker 1: I looked up afterward and they were like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: one of those. Apparently Toronto has a lot of Chinese

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Speaker 1: run sushi places which get knocked on Yelp and by reviewers,

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Speaker 1: and um. You could also make the case that um

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Speaker 1: places that serve sushi and Thai food knocked on as well. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't usually order sushi, but at a Thai restaurant,

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Speaker 1: if I go to a tie place, I want a

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Speaker 1: good tie dish. Sure you want like a curry, put

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Speaker 1: some peanuts in there or something there some peanuts on there.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, I chose wrong, and this was a hole

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Speaker 1: in the wall place. So when I walked in, my

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Speaker 1: instinct was like, oh no, but I thought no, no,

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Speaker 1: no Los Angeles, Hollywood. Really good stuff at the holes

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Speaker 1: in the wall, not the case bad fish, bad taste.

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Speaker 1: What was just it skive to me? And like if

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Speaker 1: you're skiveed eating sushi, yeah that's put down the chopsticks

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Speaker 1: and just ask for the check, maybe spit up into

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Speaker 1: your nap walk away. Anyway, I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: went off on that. What we're talking about barbecue, all right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're talking barbecue. Barbecue. This one made me hungry, dude,

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Speaker 1: same here. Um. One of the things that I really

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Speaker 1: opened my eyes about though, was the idea that like

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Speaker 1: people think of barbecue as about as American as it gets,

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Speaker 1: even though Australians have their own word for the bobby

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Speaker 1: and that pretty good. And it turns out there's barbecue

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Speaker 1: like all around the world. But when you think of barbecue,

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Speaker 1: especially like barbecued pork with barbecue sauce on like two

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Speaker 1: slices of plain old Dixie Girl white bread, that's about

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Speaker 1: as American as it gets. So not just American like

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Speaker 1: Southern American barbecue. There's actually a strip of land known

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Speaker 1: as the barbecue Belt in the United States basically goes

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Speaker 1: from Virginia down into the southeast and then over across

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Speaker 1: Kansas and then into Texas. That's the barbecue Belt in

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Speaker 1: the US. Correct, But barbecue is now every city in

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Speaker 1: the country tries to do their their own hand at barbecue.

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Speaker 1: Like I mean, if you go to New York City,

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Speaker 1: you can go eat at a barbecue joint. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: they're trying to do it. You know that they're trying

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Speaker 1: to Yeah, which is fine, they're but they're trying to

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Speaker 1: not co opt because that sounds like it's like shady

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Speaker 1: or something. But you know, you go to New York

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Speaker 1: now and you can get like you can go to

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Speaker 1: and get fried chicken and biscuits and barbecue and all

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Speaker 1: these people that are like, come to New York City

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Speaker 1: and eat this good old southern home cooking. Have you

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Speaker 1: eaten a Fatty Queue in New York that's very good

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Speaker 1: barbecue for New York joint? Yeah, And I just I

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Speaker 1: don't do that because when I'm in New York, why

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Speaker 1: would I get what I is literally surrounding me here.

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Speaker 1: I want to go to New York and I want

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Speaker 1: to go get go to the Mama Fuco or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't have that here. It's steam bun while you

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Speaker 1: can get steam buns here. Yeah. But I mean, you

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Speaker 1: can make the case that you should be going to

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Speaker 1: Korea for steam buns. But it is true. And there's

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong with if somebody opening a good barbecue joint

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Speaker 1: outside of the barbecue belt, it's just for it. In

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Speaker 1: the barbecue belt, they don't even think about it. It's

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Speaker 1: just part of the fabric of life. But I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you if you go to San Francisco to a barbecue joint.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to be the same. It's going to

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Speaker 1: be different. They'll like a Chinese sushi place. There you go.

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Speaker 1: That's the point of my story. So UM. The point

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Speaker 1: ultimately is that when you think of America having a

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Speaker 1: barbecue belt, you think a barbecue as profoundly American. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but it turns out that since you were talking about

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Speaker 1: cultural appropriation, UM, that the European settlers who came to

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Speaker 1: the New World um actually appropriated. They got the idea

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Speaker 1: for a barbecue from the indigenous groups they encountered there,

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Speaker 1: and specifically, to start from what I understand, the whole

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Speaker 1: thing started on Hispaniola, where Columbus first landed Um with

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Speaker 1: the Tano Indians. Yeah, I mean cooking. I guess if

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Speaker 1: you want to talk barbecue, there's a couple of ways

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Speaker 1: to approach it. There is the noun barbecue, which here

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Speaker 1: in the South in America we think of is like

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Speaker 1: you said, pulled pork, maybe brisket, smoked wings, and then

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Speaker 1: side dishes like cold slaw, baked beans, mac and cheese,

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Speaker 1: brunswick ste man so good. Maybe if you're getting a

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Speaker 1: little wild, maybe like collared greens or fried okra and

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Speaker 1: monkey eyes that sort of starts to there's a bit

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Speaker 1: of an overlap between Southern meat and three cooking and barbecue,

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Speaker 1: especially when it comes to the sides um, and I

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Speaker 1: think all that actually grow to church picnics originally. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did some good eating growing up at my church

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Speaker 1: and meet and three for those of you that don't

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Speaker 1: understand in other countries, that means um, a little small

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Speaker 1: family run restaurant, usually in the South, that you get

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Speaker 1: to meat and then three sides, generally served on like

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Speaker 1: a cafeteria tray. And we're talking stuff like fried pork

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Speaker 1: chops or fried chicken, or chicken, fried chicken, chicken, fried chicken, chicken,

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Speaker 1: fried steak, chicken, fried steak, steak, fried chicken, fried steak,

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Speaker 1: fried chicken, fried monkey eyes, and then all these various

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Speaker 1: sides will be the three. But there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: over that lap with barbecue. But barbecue, the distinction is

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Speaker 1: you're talking about meats that are cooked over a low heat,

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Speaker 1: generally over a long long period of time. Yeah, hours

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Speaker 1: and hours, hours and hours. We'll get in it all

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Speaker 1: the subtleties of this, but that's what barbecue really is,

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Speaker 1: right and normally, if you really if you're a purist um.

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Speaker 1: You're it's specifically pig. Anything else outside of pig is

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Speaker 1: not barbecue, whether it's chickens, sausage, whether it's shrimp, whether

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Speaker 1: it's brisket. If it's not pig, it's not barbecue. Say

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Speaker 1: a substantial portion of barbecue enthusiasts. Yeah, I say you

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Speaker 1: can just take that and uh then run away with it.

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Speaker 1: Take that, take that pig and shove it. Well, the

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Speaker 1: reason it's actually that that whole thing kind of is

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Speaker 1: the crux that is found in a nine Esquire article

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Speaker 1: called My Pig Beats Your Cow, which basically argues that

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Speaker 1: if it's not pig, it's not barbecue. And the reason

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Speaker 1: that that would be the cases because barbecue is it

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Speaker 1: came out of the American South as far back as

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the eighteenth century, and the stuff that

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Speaker 1: they were originally cooking was pig. And the reason why

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Speaker 1: they were cooking pig was because that's what they had

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Speaker 1: available to them. And there was a specific reason for

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Speaker 1: cooking pig, like you said, low and slow, very long

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Speaker 1: time over a lowish heat. It's because the pigs that

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Speaker 1: they were originally cooking were had been turned out to

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Speaker 1: feed fend for themselves out in the woods. Because if

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Speaker 1: you are running low on food, because you know you're

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Speaker 1: a colonist to a new place where you have no

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Speaker 1: idea what you're doing. You one thing you can do

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Speaker 1: with pigs and say, just go out in the woods

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Speaker 1: and eat some truffles and then will come kill you

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Speaker 1: later and eat you. Well. As they're doing that, they're

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Speaker 1: becoming like kind of like wood ready and like their leaner.

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Speaker 1: Their meat is tougher, there's less fat. So to cook

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Speaker 1: that kind of food and make it tender, you have

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Speaker 1: to cook it over low heat for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: And that's where barbecuing pig in the South originally came from.

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Speaker 1: That's the origin of barbecue. Yeah. And what's so cool

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Speaker 1: to me is um from the oranges, oranges from the origins,

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Speaker 1: whether or not it's uh. I think. In two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: Israeli archaeologists found um a two hundred thousand year old

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Speaker 1: evidence of barbecuing, essentially barbecuing wild cattle and gazelle. Whether

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Speaker 1: it's that or Hispaniola like you were talking about, or

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Speaker 1: in the fifteen hundreds uh in Spain, Um or the

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Speaker 1: earliest native Americans. What's so cool to me is that

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Speaker 1: they learned they first learned cooked meat good, and then

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Speaker 1: they learned, oh, but very slow cooked heat meat over

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Speaker 1: low heat better. Yeah, you know, like early early on

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Speaker 1: they found evidence that and these recipes that they cooked

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Speaker 1: slow and low, they actually learned the subtle difference between

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Speaker 1: this is charred meat, it will sustain me, it's it

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Speaker 1: will last a little bit longer and preserve it. And

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Speaker 1: they learned the subtleties that no, it's tender and juicy

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Speaker 1: and delicious, but do it this way. Yeah, it's just

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Speaker 1: amazing to me. Yeah, and again we've known it for

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of years at least. There's actually a

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Speaker 1: theory that says that the intelligence explosion in humans came

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Speaker 1: about from cooking our food, especially meat, because it requires

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Speaker 1: less energy to digest, which meant we could take a

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Speaker 1: lot of that digestive energy and directed upward to our brains,

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Speaker 1: and so our brains got bigger, and hence we got

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Speaker 1: smarter things to cooking our food. Yeah, and there's something

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Speaker 1: to uh, And they talk about this in the beginning

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Speaker 1: of our article here um being the antithesis of fast food.

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Speaker 1: There's something about investing, something about getting up at three

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Speaker 1: in the morning to put your your meat on your

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Speaker 1: smoker so you can have it ready by midday, and

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Speaker 1: tending to it every hour and checking that thermometer and

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Speaker 1: the whole time that's starting at three am, um or

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Speaker 1: continuing from two am. Yeah, that's that makes sometimes for

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Speaker 1: a messy barbecue. But there's just something to that. I

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Speaker 1: think it's I think that's one of the big draws

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Speaker 1: for people. Is it is Uh. It's not something you

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Speaker 1: slap on the grill and served fifteen minutes later. It's

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Speaker 1: nuanced and and that's how you build that flavor. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it's an investment in time and you can have

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Speaker 1: the conversations around that fire. And this one writer put it,

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Speaker 1: really Robert Moss, to trace the history of barbecue is

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Speaker 1: to trace the very threat of American history. And there's

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Speaker 1: been books written about it, not just recipes, but about

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Speaker 1: it as a cultural staple in this country. Really really neat. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm hungry. You want to take a break? So hungry?

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Speaker 1: M alright, So we're back, man. I mean that was delicious.

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Speaker 1: That's the sound of me flicking sauce off my fingers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we uh took one of Jerry's legs barbecue, Arie do lean,

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Speaker 1: she would make good barbecue. Well, no, that's why you

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Speaker 1: want a barbecue slowing. So Um, like you said, there's

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Speaker 1: evidence of us barbecuing is back as far back as

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Speaker 1: two hundred thousand years the ancient Greeks um really advanced barbecuing,

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Speaker 1: which sure, it's really just it's a sub type of

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Speaker 1: of roasting meat. And it's not like if you're like,

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Speaker 1: well wait a minute, people have been like creating this forever.

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Speaker 1: How can you say barbecuing as American. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like ketchup, Like remember Ketchup, where you think of Ketchup

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Speaker 1: as American, but it actually has its origins and a

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Speaker 1: Chinese fish sauce. This is very similar. But like barbecuing

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have come about had humans not been doing this

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Speaker 1: for two hundred thousand years already. This is just a

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Speaker 1: kind of a nuanced version of it, right. Um. So

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Speaker 1: around the world people roast meat in various ways, like,

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Speaker 1: for example, um, in medieval England they found evidence they

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Speaker 1: actually have a taxidermy um sample of of this breed

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Speaker 1: of dog called the turnspit, and um no, no, it

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Speaker 1: was really cute. So this small dogs they look kind

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Speaker 1: of dock Sundy were bred to run on treadmills or

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Speaker 1: little hamster wheels too. That was connected by a chain

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Speaker 1: to the spit. So it turned this huge piece of

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Speaker 1: meat in the fire. Dog though they were small dogs,

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Speaker 1: but they were stout. Oh they were turning the huge dog. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're like better him than me. Um, And that was

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Speaker 1: in medieval England. Well, you can make a really good

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Speaker 1: case that turning a hunk of meat on a spit

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Speaker 1: very slowly off an indirect flame that's barbecuing. But it's

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Speaker 1: not barbecue because it didn't come out of the American

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Speaker 1: South cooking pork specifically. But um, the lot of people

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Speaker 1: from the south and west of England ended up in

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Speaker 1: the American South, and that's kind of one of the

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Speaker 1: ways that it started to grow there. Yeah, so let's

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Speaker 1: let's just quit billy dallying de Soto. Well, first Columbus

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Speaker 1: shows up encounters the Tano Indians on Hispaniola, who are

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Speaker 1: would have been related to um, the Haitians and the

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Speaker 1: Dominicans today. Uh, and I believe people in Puerto Rico

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Speaker 1: to um. So the Tano Indians had this method of

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Speaker 1: cooking meat where they used green wood like fresh saplings,

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Speaker 1: so that it wouldn't catch fire and therefore wouldn't char

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Speaker 1: the meat either, and they cooked meat like probably goats

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Speaker 1: or something like that over this this low heat for

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Speaker 1: a very long time. So I think Columbus encountered it,

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Speaker 1: but definitely Hernando de Soto did as well when he

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Speaker 1: arrived in North America, and supposedly the first European attended

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Speaker 1: barbecue took place outside of what's today Tupelo, Mississippi, in

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Speaker 1: fifteen forty with De Soto, who is the guy who

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Speaker 1: brought pigs to the New World. Could have been my family.

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Speaker 1: So it was a roasted pig, Chuck's family, her Nando

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Speaker 1: de Soto, and the Chickasaw tribe who lived around there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the first, the first barbecue in North America

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Speaker 1: featuring pig. Yeah. And as you'll see as we go,

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Speaker 1: barbecue is very social experience that has weaved its way

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Speaker 1: through churches and gatherings and civic groups and American politics,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get into all that, but it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: not surprising that there's evidence of a group of people

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Speaker 1: getting together like any shared meal, but with barbecue, it's

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Speaker 1: just gonna be longer. Well, yeah, and supposedly that arose

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Speaker 1: out of the slaughtering of a pig was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: You had a lot of meat on your hands. They

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Speaker 1: used everything from the snout to the tail of the pig,

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Speaker 1: so you had a lot of stuff and it was

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Speaker 1: way more than your family was going to eat. So

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Speaker 1: it was an occasion for the whole community, or at

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Speaker 1: least all the neighbors, to be invited over to share

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Speaker 1: in this wonderful food. And that's where barbecues being a

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Speaker 1: social gathering came out of that. During the colonial era, Uh,

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Speaker 1: eating a pig was a very communal affair. Well, and

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Speaker 1: we've we've talked before about um I just kind of

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Speaker 1: remembered about fire, about the theories that language of all

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Speaker 1: because of fire, because for the first time, people gathered

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Speaker 1: round after the sun went down to talk about their day.

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Speaker 1: So this is kind of along the same lines. Like

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Speaker 1: where you have a fire going, you're gonna have people

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Speaker 1: hanging out. There's some meat on a spit several feet up.

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Speaker 1: You've got some tasty food. Can yourself a turnspit dog?

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, because he wants to crank that thing. Turnspit dog.

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Speaker 1: That's what they were bred to do so Native Americans here,

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Speaker 1: they kind of improve things over time. They eventually would

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Speaker 1: make these wooden frames that they would put the meat on.

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Speaker 1: And then in a man named Elsworth, his warrior, patented

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Speaker 1: the charcoal briquette, which started being mass produced about twenty

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Speaker 1: three years later. You didn't know by whom, Well, I

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Speaker 1: would imagine, uh uh, what's the big one now? Kingsford.

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Speaker 1: Kingsford was Henry Johnny match like. Kingsford was Henry Ford's

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Speaker 1: cousin in law. And Henry Ford was looking for a

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Speaker 1: way to use all of these stumps and sawdust that

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Speaker 1: was left over from the boards that were produced for

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Speaker 1: like the running boards and the dashboards for his model

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Speaker 1: T because he wanted he had all this waste and

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Speaker 1: he wanted to put it to good use. So he

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Speaker 1: started mass producing charcoal briquettes. Yeah, and we're talking about

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Speaker 1: wood briquettes. Yeah. Briquette is basically coal, tar, sawdust, sometimes

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Speaker 1: corn starch. That's like a that's a wood briquette. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or now the wood briquettes. A lot of times it's

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Speaker 1: just real wood, like chunks of wood, like if you're

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Speaker 1: a real barbecue enthusiast. You're not gonna be buying these

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Speaker 1: submit briquettes. Sure you buy some of those, get some

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Speaker 1: open pit barbecue sauce, and you've done. Let's go back

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Speaker 1: to bed Um. Nineteen fifties. A man named George Stephen,

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Speaker 1: he's a metalworker. He got half attached some legs to

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Speaker 1: a half of a spherical nautical booie was the other

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Speaker 1: half of the lid. He said, I'm gonna call this

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Speaker 1: the Webber kettle grill. I don't know where he got

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Speaker 1: the name. I don't either. Did you notice there's a

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Speaker 1: webber grill restaurant in Chicago? Really, we saw it walking around.

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Speaker 1: You know, they have a giant webber grill outside. It's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I have a giant webber grill in my deck. So

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Speaker 1: I thought it was weird to point this out because

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Speaker 1: he was far from the first person to invent the

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Speaker 1: portable backyard grill. Oh really, yeah, been around for a

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Speaker 1: long time. Well maybe it was just the kettle Girl.

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Speaker 1: He definitely invented the kettle girl, but he was. It's

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Speaker 1: just weird that they chose him to point out because

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Speaker 1: the backyard portable grill had been around a while. Well,

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Speaker 1: maybe it was. This article is underwritten by Weber maybe,

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Speaker 1: and I just like Buzz marketed them as owning one Webber,

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Speaker 1: I don't too whoa I know, right. So the smoke

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Speaker 1: is really I mean slow and low is what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, temperature wise, And we'll get into the specifics

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Speaker 1: of that in a minute. But what you're really doing

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Speaker 1: is you're you're getting the smoke from whatever type of

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Speaker 1: wood or would briquette that you were using in the fire. Um.

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Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk about those flavors now. But my advice,

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Speaker 1: if you're new to this, you've never done it, go

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Speaker 1: out and get some different samples of these various woods.

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Speaker 1: And you don't even need to cook with them at first.

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Speaker 1: Just light them and smell the smoke and see what

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Speaker 1: you like, and then whatever you're drawn to use. That

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00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 1: good advice, But starting out, if you want to talk barbecue, Um,

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Speaker 1: Hickory in the South was widely used, and most of

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Speaker 1: these regionally were used because that obviously was the wood

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Speaker 1: they had near there. So hickory was abundant in the South.

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Speaker 1: A little sweet, very rich, good for good for everything,

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Speaker 1: especially monkey guys mesquite uh Texas. Uh. This is where

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Speaker 1: you get the more mesquite flavor. And apparently the mesquite

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Speaker 1: would was sort of a nuisance. But in Texas they

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Speaker 1: got on the beef train obviously and said the stuff

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00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: mesquite wood is really good for beef. Yeah what else? Um,

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Speaker 1: apparently fruit wood is good for things like chicken and seafood.

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Speaker 1: Does think of bacon when I think apple would apple

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Speaker 1: would smoke bacon? Yeah, that's the thing. Um, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's good advice. Just whatever you like, it's

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00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: was what you should use. Yeah. And if you don't

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Speaker 1: have time to invest in a um would burning briquette,

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Speaker 1: like if you have a propane stove, Um, you can

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Speaker 1: always I know it's not gonna be is authentic. You

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Speaker 1: can always just cheep out and get a one of

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Speaker 1: those pans that you can keep the the wood on

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Speaker 1: and soak it and that'll that'll give you some extra flavor.

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Speaker 1: But it's not gonna be anything like you know, twelve

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Speaker 1: hours over a fire, right like a wood fire. You know. Now,

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Speaker 1: and if you're if you're starting to get the impression

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Speaker 1: that there's a certain level of purity, Yes, so the

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Speaker 1: idea of barbecuing, Yes, you you're absolutely correct, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not a purist. I'm an amateur. Like I don't have

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Speaker 1: a smoker at this point. So at this point maybe

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Speaker 1: Webber will send you. At some point I should I

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Speaker 1: should probably get one for free. Um. So one of

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Speaker 1: the other things that really distinguishes different types of barbecue,

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Speaker 1: especially regionally, is or even down to like the individual

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Speaker 1: chef or pit masters. We'll see they're called um although

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Speaker 1: I guess I just spoiled. That is how you get

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Speaker 1: the meat ready to cook. So there's there's really a

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00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: lot of differences in that you're you're getting the meat

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Speaker 1: ready to cook, and then what you do to the

387
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: meat afterward. Two is huge as well. But to get

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00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,239
Speaker 1: it ready, there's one of two things you're gonna do

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00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 1: the meat. You're going to either hit it with a

390
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: dry rub or you're gonna hit it with a wet rub.

391
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Speaker 1: You're gonna do something ahead of time, and you're gonna

392
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: talk to it nicely sure while you spank and um

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Speaker 1: with the dry rub. In particular, supposedly there's four s

394
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Speaker 1: is there is are you ready for this? Okay? Sweetness,

395
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: sugar or honey, typically savory like say, garlic, spices and herbs,

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00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: and spicy sensations like pepper or something or ginger. That's

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00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: way more ses than four, especially if you count all

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00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: the pluralization s. Yeah, have you ever made a rub? No?

399
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Speaker 1: Not really? You into this at all? To barbecue? No,

400
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: I I don't barbecue, but um into eating barbecue. You

401
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: You get into this stuff now with cooking, Like I

402
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: could see you smoking a brisket one day and being like, Wow,

403
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: that was rewarding. Give it a shot, okay. Um. Also,

404
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: you also strike me as a type that would be like,

405
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: I don't have time to it's into a grill for

406
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Speaker 1: twelve hours. Well, I mean if there's if if Yeah,

407
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: maybe let's pick the right day. Yeah, I could study

408
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 1: for the podcast while I'm tending to the fire. So

409
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Speaker 1: I have made dry rubs, and I don't know what

410
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: I'm doing. I just will look at recipes and just

411
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: kind of do my own thing with it. Um. But

412
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: it really makes all the difference if you rub this

413
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: meat down real good, get in all the crevices and

414
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 1: and nooks and crannies and and let it let it

415
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: just sit with itself for a while. Um. I don't

416
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: add any wetness to it. But you can't add vinegar.

417
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: You can add oil. Um, if you've never done it,

418
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: like I said, get online. There's a million different ways

419
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: you can tackle this beast. Yeah, if you be careful,

420
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: because that's what they call a rabbit hole. Yeah, you're

421
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: going to fall down it when you start just looking

422
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: into rubs. I'm sure that will lead you to this

423
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: and that. Well actually I'm kind of into the Memphis

424
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: style and that kind of thing. So um, after after

425
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: you also want to make sure that you're aware of

426
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: this to start that. Barbecue sauce is the stuff you

427
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: put on right before serving or while you're eating, depending.

428
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: Um all, if you're not into it, sure, some people

429
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: just eat like dry, dryer, wet, rubbed like barbecue. Um,

430
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: I love it with sauce. It just seems wrong to

431
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: eat it without sauce. But yes, some people are into

432
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: it like that. Um, but that's not what a rub is,

433
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: dry or wet. That's that's the sauce that's different. We'll

434
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 1: talk about that in a little bit. And you kind

435
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: of gave a little um distinction between you gave a

436
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: definition of barbecuing, right, and I said that that like

437
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: roasting meat is basically barbecue any type of roasting meat.

438
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: But there's there's slight definitions. One of the things that

439
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: comes up is the difference between barbecuing and grilling. And

440
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: this one's actually kind of easy. The distinction is it's

441
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: based on time and temperature. Yeah. So with with the barbecue,

442
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: you do that slow and low thing where you're roasting

443
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: for several hours over a relatively low heat. Uh. This

444
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: article says to two fifty, I wonder if that's cannon. Uh. Well,

445
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: I mean it depends definitely. In the low two hundreds

446
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: is a good idea. I think to fifty seems a

447
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: little high. But um, I'm no expert, but grilling is

448
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: hotter and faster. Yeah. And with grilling, I mean there

449
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: are a couple of ways you can grill too. You

450
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: can uh direct grill, which is just really high heat

451
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: if you want to um, sira steak or something, but

452
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: that's not barbecue. Um. And then indirect grilling when it's

453
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: on the grill around three fifty but you've just got

454
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: the coals kind of on one side and then your

455
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: meat on the other. And that's it's kind of the

456
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: middle ground. But the verb barbecue, it's very highly regionalized

457
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: as to what terminology you're gonna use and like, I

458
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: don't say I'm gonna barbecue today, Like I say I'm

459
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: gonna grill out. Do you want to come over? I'm

460
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: grilling out. I don't say we're barbecuing. Some people might

461
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: say smoke instead of barbecue. Yeah, we're gonna smoke out.

462
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna smoke some meat or something like that. Um.

463
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: But I I think of barbecue as the noun, like

464
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: we'll go get some barbecue or cook some barbecue by

465
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: grilling out. Yeah, it's always out because you don't grow inside.

466
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: That's a bad idea. Um. And then afterwards, so we've

467
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: done preparation, the cooking, and now the thing's ready, but

468
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: it's not ready quite yet because you've got the sauce.

469
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: If you're into sauces, and depending on where you are

470
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: in the country, uh, you're going to use different types

471
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: of sauce. And what I found interesting was that with

472
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: American barbecue, the the Europeans who came in appropriated the

473
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: barbecuing process brought their own tastes to the fold, and

474
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: depending on where they settled, that's that area developed a

475
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: specific type of barbecue sauce. Starting with the Carolinas. Yeah,

476
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 1: this kind of reminds me of the accents. Thing was

477
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: like the trail that, uh, the accents as the accents

478
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: developed as where people settled, Like food was kind of

479
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: secondary to that or hand in hand with that. Uh yeah,

480
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: North Carolina in Virginia, these were British colonists mainly, and

481
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: they liked tart tarti things, So you're gonna find more

482
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: vinegar based sauces there until you get the South Carolina

483
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: where you have the french Ins and Germans who liked mustard,

484
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: so they have the mustard based sauce. I don't think

485
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: I've ever had that. Uh yeah, I'm not a fan.

486
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: I mean I don't not like it, but it's never

487
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 1: gonna be my first choice. What was do you remember

488
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: when we hosted that locust thing on Science Channel and

489
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: I went to the barbecue place. It was like a

490
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: legendary barbecue place in South no Greensboro, North Carolina. Yeah,

491
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: that was really neat. Yeah, so they had like the

492
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: good vinegar sauce. Yeah, just seeing the inner machinations of

493
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: how a big barbecue place works, right, Yeah, they took

494
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: us back to where the fire was. Yeah, it was

495
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: pretty good and hot. Uh. If you go a little

496
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: further west, a little about as far west as you

497
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: can to the other end of the barbecue belt, you're

498
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: in Texas, West Texas to be specific. Apparently in East

499
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: Texas they eat basically like Kansas City barbecue or Memphis maybe,

500
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,959
Speaker 1: but in West Texas they get their own And like

501
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: you said, they're not even using pork, it's beef. They're

502
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: cooking brisket over mesquite. That's Texas cowboys style barbecue, which

503
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: some people would argue is not actually barbecue. Yeah, and

504
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: that's because the German immigrants who raised all in the west,

505
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: in West Texas. Um, I love brisket, so yeah, I've

506
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: got no problems with brisket and pulled pork, and me

507
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: I like them both. Like when I woulder like a

508
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: catered if I'm having like a big party or something,

509
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: I would er a catered barbecue, I get one of each.

510
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: The one. Yeah. The one thing I'm not crazy about

511
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 1: is barbecue chicken. I like it. I mean I make

512
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: it at home because that's a quicker, easier thing to do,

513
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: just like for dinner. Um, but I don't ever order

514
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: that in a barbecue restaurant. I just didn't know what

515
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: a waste. Yeah, I do that home cooking. Sure. Uh,

516
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: Memphis style. Um, they were a port town because of

517
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: the Mississippi River right there, and so they could get

518
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: molasses more readily. So that's why Memphis has a very

519
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: sweet tomato base sauce. Yeah, delicious. Which and then have

520
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: you heard of Alabama barbecue before? I had not, so

521
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: the way that this article puts it, it's a lesser

522
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: known style from northern Alabama, involving a white sauce made

523
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: with mayonnaise, vinegar, and lemon juice. For some reason, that

524
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 1: use of the word involving makes it sound like they're

525
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: talking about some unpleasant business. It's just hilarious. It doesn't

526
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: sound very good, but I would try it. I've had

527
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: that white sauce. I don't think I knew it was

528
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: Alabama specific. Oh yeah, but I've had it before. So

529
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: perhaps you can answer this one for me. What is

530
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: Georgia barbecue? Is it just basically like a rip off

531
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: of North Carolina? I don't know, man Like, Well, we'll

532
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: get slayd for this because we live in Georgian iight

533
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: at barbecue places all over town. Yeah, I guess it's

534
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: its own thing, but it doesn't seem it's it's a tart.

535
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: It's a tart vinegary based sauce, but sweet as well. Well.

536
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: There can most of the places I see in Atlanta

537
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: have both. I have the vinegar sauce or the or

538
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: the sweet sauce, like the really thick And I think

539
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: Kansas City is barbecue is sort of known. Um Henry

540
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: Perry settled there and opened up one of the first

541
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: barbecue restaurant, and I think they kind of pulled from

542
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: Memphis a little bit. I think they drew influences from

543
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: all over because they were last and but I think

544
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: in the city is generally known for that kind of

545
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: sweet and tangy sauce. But but once in Atlanta, I've

546
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: seen kind of have all kinds, but it's typically pork,

547
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: although they'll have brisket on the menu. But most people

548
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: when they think of barbecue in the South or in Georgia,

549
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: think of pulled pork. I think people think of both.

550
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: Or maybe I'm just saying that because I do Well,

551
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's a lot of transplants in Atlanta,

552
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: So maybe what what's your favorite place in Atlanta? Uh,

553
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: it depends on what you're looking for because the ribs

554
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: obviously Fat Matt's Rib Shack is the real deal. Um

555
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: wings chicken Fox Brothers obviously. Okay, yeah, their wings are

556
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: good and their sauce is good too. And then for

557
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: pulled pork. There's a place on Peachtree Industrial and it

558
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: doesn't even have a name. It just says like brick

559
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: pit Barbecue. But it's not even the name of the place.

560
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: They're just saying like they have a brick pit barbecue it'

561
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: and um, you can tell like that same fire has

562
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: been going since the late sixties and it is just

563
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: amazing just for like a regular old pulled pork sandwich

564
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: with like really good Brunswick's too, and then like that

565
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: plain white hamburger bun perfect. What about yours? I like

566
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: Fox Brothers. Okay, Um, it's good. Um My favorite barbecue

567
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: is Community Barbecue. Um yeah, I've never heard of that.

568
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: It's really good. I mean, I guess you call that Decatur.

569
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: It's in that shopping center with it's kind of the

570
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: best food restaurant shopping center in Atlanta because it's got

571
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: a tie place, an Italian place, a barbecue joint, a

572
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: an Indian restaurant, that's not true. I have eaten there.

573
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: It is good. So it's got like seven restaurants and

574
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: all of them are different ethnicity, um, which obviously wasn't

575
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: an accident. I don't know who owns that, but like,

576
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: kudos to them, hats all. But Community Barbecue is just

577
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: the best. Their brisket is unbelievable, and they're mac and

578
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: cheese is indescribably good. It's that's really saying something because

579
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: usually mac and cheese is terrible at a restaurant. Stuff

580
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: is so good. You see him making it sometimes, and

581
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: like if you walk to go to the restroom, you'll

582
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 1: see in the kitchen they're making these pans of mac

583
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: and cheese. I don't know how much cheese goes into

584
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: it or the different kinds. And they have cream and

585
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: stuff every cream, but it's just ungodly the amount of cheese.

586
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: Everybody on this side that makes it good. They don't

587
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: call it macin some cheese. All right, let's take a

588
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: break and we're going to talk about sides and uh

589
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 1: a little bit about politics and barbecue around the world.

590
00:35:47,520 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: Finish up, let's take it home, Chuck. All right, we

591
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 1: gotta talk about sides for a minute. We we got

592
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: literally watery in the mouth talking about mac and cheese

593
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: at community. Um. But typical sides are, like I said earlier,

594
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: maybe some cold slaw, which will also vary by region. Um,

595
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 1: Brunswick stew, which is set in here. It was originally

596
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: squirrel meat, but chicken will do. I've only had pork

597
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: here Brunswick stew, never had squirrel Brunswick stew. Not into that.

598
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: It sounds like a Mike Huckaby dish. Um. Baked beans, Sure,

599
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: I make really good baked beans. That sort of the

600
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: dish I will volunteer to bring to any cookout or

601
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: spake beans. That's ironic because I make a good FARTI

602
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: sound with my armpit. That's what you bring to barbecue. Um.

603
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: What else, well, French fries. Uh, it depends on the restaurant,

604
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: but the usually be some kind of like French fries

605
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: or something like that. To me, if you can, if

606
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: you can wolf down anything besides the barbecue, they're not

607
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: giving you enough barbecue. Like, yes, it's nice to have

608
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: some sides or whatever, but like it's the barbecue that's

609
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: the point. Sure, And I think you should be able

610
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: to get full just off of the barbecue, that's my opinion.

611
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: Do you like it chopped or oh, I guess you're

612
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: doing the pork, so it's see brisket, they'll slice it.

613
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: But I like it chopped for a sandwich. Um, and

614
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: I do like to mix the brist choppers, get up

615
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: with the sauce. Yeah, so good. Oh man, I'm really

616
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: and I ate lunch and I'm still just like super hungry.

617
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: That's good stuff. Um. Politics has often has long been

618
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: linked to barbecue. Way back in the old days of

619
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: the colonies and the early days of American politics, they

620
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: found a good way to get a lot of people

621
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: together talk to him about stuff was to promise them food. Well, no,

622
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: I remember. It grew out of this tradition of we

623
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: just killed a pig, so everybody came gather around, we're

624
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: gonna cook it. Needed together, And then politicians started showing

625
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: up at these things or holding them themselves. But yeah,

626
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: there's a long tradition of of politics and barbecues. And apparently, um,

627
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: Fourth of July, which you think of as barbecue like

628
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: holiday here in the States. Um, that's long been a

629
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: barbecue holiday. That's nothing new. And apparently they used to

630
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: get drunk and barbecue and read the fourth the Declaration

631
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: of Independence. That was the big, the big, the big

632
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: fourth thing. Uhties they m they were such a big

633
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: hit in the South. They started kind of spreading out

634
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: politically in eight thirty six. That was Daniel Webster, U

635
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 1: S Senator. He was a wig. We should do something

636
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: on the wigs. I like those dudes. Um. He gave

637
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 1: a two hour speech at a barbecue in St. Louis.

638
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: So did uh candidate William Henry Harrison. It just became

639
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 1: a tool, you know, at these rallies to get folks

640
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: together and feed him almost bribe them both food and booze.

641
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,919
Speaker 1: What was it called applying the planters with bumbo or something? Yeah,

642
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: that was from the Bars episode. Yeah, but yeah, it's

643
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: it's it's like, here, you eat these ribs and drink

644
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: all of this uh bourbon. Yeah, and uh don't yeah exactly.

645
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: And throughout the years of many many presidents have thrown big,

646
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: big barbecues, from Linda Johnson to the bushes. Um, I'm

647
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: not sure what's going on today. Trump didn't struck me

648
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: as a hitmaster, No, but Johnson apparently had something called

649
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: barbecue diplomacy out on his ranch in Texas. He throw

650
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: huge barbecues, invite uh V I P s and say hey,

651
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: I want you to sign this bill. Okay, I'm melb J.

652
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,240
Speaker 1: That's that's nothing like I think it does. It was obviously,

653
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: uh Slavery in the United States played a big part

654
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: because UM part of the sort of facade of treating

655
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,800
Speaker 1: slaves to a big barbecue as a reward for being slaves.

656
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: UM was something that happened on plantations. But on the

657
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: flip side, UM slaves would also have barbecues and go

658
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: over plans for a rebellion. I think the Nat Turner

659
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: rebellion was planned over barbecue or escape via the underground railroad.

660
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 1: And in the Civil rights movement in the nineteen fifties

661
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 1: and sixties was barbecue was a lot of times these

662
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: barbecue restaurants in the South were sort of the meeting

663
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: places and headquarters. Yeah. What's weird, especially in the Jim

664
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: Crow era, was that barbecue places were segregated. UM, so

665
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: you'd have like, um, black owned barbecue joint, white owned

666
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: barbecue joints. UM. But the thing about barbecue is that

667
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: it kind of transcends race and class in that like

668
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: everybody in the South loves barbecue right um. And apparently

669
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: during the Jim Crow era, white people would sneak over

670
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: to black owned barbecue joints that had superior barbecue and

671
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: get their take out and go um. And the reason

672
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: they were able to do this is because at the

673
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: time and still in some places today, but at the time,

674
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: barbecue joints were almost exclusively take out. And the reason

675
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: they were take out was because they were the evolution

676
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: of a barbecue pit. And the pit master role, especially

677
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: in the Annabellum uh South, usually went to a slave.

678
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: So you if you were a slave who was the

679
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: pit master on a whole plantation, you know how to

680
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: cook some meat and you know how to cook it

681
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: really well for a lot of people, both um enslaved

682
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: and not. You probably didn't care about running a restaurant. No,

683
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 1: but after after reconstruction, for during reconstruction after the Civil War,

684
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you found yourself with extremely unique talent.

685
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: And so maybe like during the week you would go

686
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: to work, maybe as a sharecropper, and then on the

687
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: weekend maybe you would be the pit master for your church.

688
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: And then people would say this is so good, you

689
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: should you know, you should sell this, So all of

690
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: a sudden you build a shack around your pit, and

691
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have a bit of a joint.

692
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: So you put up a couple of stools, and people

693
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 1: come and you have a window, and they get their

694
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: take out and go, and then the car comes along,

695
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, your barbecue joint is like

696
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: a destination that people are going to on their road trips.

697
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: And then that's how the barbecue joints developed. Yeah, I think,

698
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the coolest things about it

699
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: to me in the South is that despite our very

700
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: checkered in dark past um and uh, even though a

701
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: lot of that racism obviously is still around. Um, if

702
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: you go into a barbecue joint in Atlanta, you're gonna

703
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 1: find all stripes of people, all classes of people, um,

704
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: sitting side by side, enjoying food together and being really

705
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: friendly to one another and talking about the food. Um.

706
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: Like you know, you'll see some like Wall Street dude

707
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: with his tie flipped over so he didn't get it dirty,

708
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 1: next to a guy that's um just come back. You know.

709
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: Fishing with a bunch of catfishing is cooler, uh, feeding

710
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: each other, drinking sweet tea. Um, it's just like, I

711
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: don't know, it's cool, man, go to like a a

712
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: tailgate at the Falcons game sometime if you think, like

713
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: the South is so divided still and you'll see people

714
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: getting along for the most part. In that case, the

715
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: only losers the pig who are way smarter than we

716
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: tend to think. That is probably a T shirt at

717
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: some barbecue restaurant. The only loser here is the pig,

718
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: which and this has struck me for a very long time.

719
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: Using a pig as a mascot for a barbecue places

720
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 1: so sad. It's so sad. That's like if McDonald's instead

721
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: of the Golden Arches had just a big cow. Yeah,

722
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: a cow serving a platter of hamburgers. That's what they do.

723
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: Were the ones that have wings because they're dead because

724
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: you're eating them? Uh, it's talking about civil rights movement though. Um.

725
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: In Atlanta, we had a very famous restaurant here that

726
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: was uh kind of one of the headquarters for Reverend

727
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Jr. Yeah, have you heard of that place? Yeah,

728
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: alex A. L. E. C. K. Barbecue Heaven was legendary

729
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: Atlanta place that. Um is this still around well? No,

730
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: I want to know what it is now. No, I don't.

731
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: Imminent domain came in and took it over and it's

732
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: now a Walmart. I know. It's like you literally couldn't

733
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: have written a worse outcome. I don't know. They could

734
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: have put up a Texas barbecue place instead. Wow, that's true. Uh.

735
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 1: And here's the thing, though, they had a for many

736
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 1: years after uh, doctor King died that was a I'm

737
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: sort of a shrine to him in this restaurant still,

738
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: like this is kind of where they met and that

739
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: is where it happened. And um, for many years that

740
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: was maintained and maintained and I think uh and Walmart.

741
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: Originally they had that was in the middle of Boys Apparel.

742
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: I don't know where it was, but I think they

743
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: actually reference at or had photos commemorating that or something

744
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: for a little while, but then took it out because they, man,

745
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 1: what was the quote. They didn't think it represented the

746
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: brand in in the right way or something. I need

747
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: to look it up. I wish i'd been there. But yeah,

748
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: it's a Walmart. It's right over sort of in the

749
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: Atlantic University Center near kind of right near downtown. Okay. Yeah,

750
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: like right next to uh, Morris Brown and Clark at

751
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: Land and come on, I know, Uh, do you got

752
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: anything else? No, I mean we hit a little bit

753
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: on barbecue around the world. Um, we're not gonna get

754
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: too much into it, but obviously if you've had jerk

755
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: chicken or um barbeca or yeah, or Korean style barbecue,

756
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: which supposedly we should say. Barbeca is the word that

757
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: De Soto reported back to Europe about barbecuing, and they

758
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: think it's a corrupted Tano word, but they don't have

759
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: any tano Anyans to ask because the Europeans killed them

760
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: all off, so no one thought to ask them first

761
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: before they all died. That's said, yeah, yeah, I got

762
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: nothing else. Okay, Well, if you want to know more

763
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: about Martin Luther King Jr. The Tano, Indians, pigs, barbecue, Texas,

764
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: all that stuff, you can type those words in the

765
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: search bar how stuff works dot Com. Since I said

766
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 1: search bar's time for listener mail. Hey guys, just wanted

767
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 1: to share with both of you a Vice News short

768
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: documentary that came out tonight. It includes lots of great

769
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: footage and first hand accounts of the streets of Charlottesville.

770
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,280
Speaker 1: He's this is in real time where the events in Charlotte'sville,

771
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: Virginia have just happened. Um, he sent, Have you seen

772
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: this documentary yet? No, I haven't. By this time it

773
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: will have aired on HBO on The Vice Show. But

774
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: it's out online now. And I encourage everybody who's Chuck

775
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: speaking it. Yeah, it's only twenty minutes long, sit through

776
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: it all. It's extremely hard to watch, very very upsetting. Uh.

777
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: And I'll watch it just before we came in here

778
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: to record, which is a big mistake. Is it sensationalized

779
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: or true true life? No, I mean it's it's They

780
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: got a camera and a young woman to report kind

781
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: of right in the middle of it all. So she

782
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 1: interviews white nationalists, She interviews people um fighting back against

783
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: white nationalists. It's um just in their own words, basically, like,

784
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: here's a microphone. What do you have to say? Yeah,

785
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: it's not uh not fun. Racism and ignorance back to

786
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: the mail, Racism and ignorance on this scope are abhorrent

787
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: and things that just h need to be widely denounced

788
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 1: in American discourse. As the uv A alum, I just

789
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: want to say this rally does not represent the feelings

790
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: and attitudes of the university or surrounding city, which is

791
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: actually garnered a reputation as a refugee city in recent years.

792
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 1: And I think most people know that this. These people

793
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: came from all over the country and other countries. These

794
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 1: white nationalists, well, the whole reason they came is because

795
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: Charlotte feels taking down their Confederate memorial right to Robert E.

796
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,479
Speaker 1: Lee that that was the uh the guys under which

797
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: they met, but it was clearly much more than that.

798
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: That's where they met up, at least with their yeah,

799
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: Walmart tiki torches, which as hysterical and said, I have

800
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: been avidly listening to your podcast for about a year now,

801
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: and sarendipitously enough, I happened to find your episode on

802
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: free speeches Friday of the protest on campus. I'm not

803
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: one to strike down American liberty by liberties by any means,

804
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: but it does make me wonder how things might be

805
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: different in our society. We did have some kind of

806
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: restrictions on things like hate speech in broadcasting certifiably false

807
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: information just as a thought experiment. While I have been

808
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: an open advocate for environmental protection at many times in

809
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: my life. It's the first time in my life that

810
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: I've openly posted for a cause involving racism and bigotry.

811
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 1: I shared both the Vice News video and your Free

812
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: Speech podcast all my Facebook prints, and I seek to

813
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: be more more public advocate for equality from here on out.

814
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: Keep on doing great things. You're empty humor and curiosity

815
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: or greatly appreciated. This is from John Uh in Washington,

816
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: d C. Nice John, Thank you very much, and I

817
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: encourage everyone just google Vice News Charlottesville watch that twenty minutes,

818
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: and I would really be interested if anyone can write

819
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: in and defend anything that was going on there. Uh

820
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: And if, like John, you want to let us know

821
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: about something you think we should see, We're always down

822
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: for that. You can tweet to us at s y

823
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: s K podcast or Josham Clark can hang out with

824
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: us at Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know

825
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: or slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant. You can send us

826
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: an email to Stuff Podcast to how stuff Works dot

827
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: com is always join us at our home on the

828
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: web Stuff you Should Know dot com for more on

829
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff

830
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: Works dot Com