Speaker 1: You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
Speaker 1: This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
Speaker 1: for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Rasha Paccerreiro.
Speaker 3: And I'm Evett Genteely and this week we're talking about
Speaker 3: the murder of Larry King, or sometimes known as Letitia
Speaker 3: King as well. This is a murder that took place
Speaker 3: in broad daylight, in a classroom full of children.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. This murder took place in two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight, and it is arguably one of the most
Speaker 2: prominent anti LGBTQ murders since the murder of Matthew Shepherd
Speaker 2: ten years. Ellen DeGeneres and Hillary Clinton even sent their
Speaker 2: condolences at the time, and across the country there were
Speaker 2: vigils and marches all in Larry's name.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like I said, it happened in a junior
Speaker 3: high on a school day, and this brings up all
Speaker 3: kind of questions about how this was able to escalate
Speaker 3: to the point of murder in a classroom. Today, we're
Speaker 3: going to be talking with a friend of Larry's, and
Speaker 3: that is Tiger. She has courageously agreed to speak with us,
Speaker 3: and so I'm very grateful to have her on the show.
Speaker 2: Yes, so grateful. But now our producer Trevor is going
Speaker 2: to take us through today's case.
Speaker 3: You know, at first it looked like a simple hate crime,
Speaker 3: but as students and teachers testified at the trial last week,
Speaker 3: a much more complicated picture has begun to emerge.
Speaker 4: He's remembered as friendly and outgoing, but fellow students say
Speaker 4: he became the subject of taunts and bullying in school
Speaker 4: at after speaking out about his sexual orientation and reportedly
Speaker 4: wearing makeup, lipstick, and jewelry to school.
Speaker 3: It's inconceivable that anybody could be that angry at a
Speaker 3: kid that was that nice.
Speaker 1: Larry King, who also went by Letitia, was a fifteen
Speaker 1: year old who was killed by a classmate in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight in Oxnard, California. Larry was openly gay
Speaker 1: and often presented very effeminate. They came out when they
Speaker 1: were ten years old. As early as then Larry was
Speaker 1: frequently bullied for their sexual identity. In seventh grade, Larry
Speaker 1: transferred to EO. Green Junior High School, and there Larry
Speaker 1: found a tight knit group of girls to be friends with,
Speaker 1: and by all accounts, expressed their identity proudly, wearing dresses,
Speaker 1: high heels, and makeup. One friend even said that quote
Speaker 1: he wore makeup better than I did. End quote. But
Speaker 1: the boys at this new school bullied Larry ruthlessly. Larry
Speaker 1: responded defiantly, reportedly talking back to their taunts by saying
Speaker 1: things like quote, I know you want me. One of
Speaker 1: Larry's most frequent antagonizers was a fourteen year old boy
Speaker 1: named Brandon McInerney. Larry told some friends that something romantic
Speaker 1: had happened between them, but the mood between them during
Speaker 1: most school days was hostile. One day, Larry walked down
Speaker 1: the hall and said to Brandon, quote, love you baby.
Speaker 1: Brandon became incensed and told one of Larry's friends that
Speaker 1: they would never see Larry alive again. On the morning
Speaker 1: of February fourteenth, Larry came to school dressed unusually. They'd
Speaker 1: left their feminine clothes at home in favor of baggy
Speaker 1: pants and sneakers. They were acting strangely, too nervous, it seemed,
Speaker 1: Teachers say Larry kept looking over their shoulder. Later that morning,
Speaker 1: Larry sat down in the school computer lab and wrote
Speaker 1: their name on a piece of paper. They wrote it
Speaker 1: as Letitia King. It was one of the last things
Speaker 1: Larry would ever write. Later that school period, Brandon McInerney
Speaker 1: drew a twenty two caliber revolver and shot Larry twice
Speaker 1: in the back of the head. Larry King died in
Speaker 1: the hospital just two days later. Brandon was apprehended, but
Speaker 1: public opinion both the trial and press coverage that followed
Speaker 1: was split. The defense claimed that Larry had made themselves
Speaker 1: a target with over the top gay behavior at school.
Speaker 1: Others called this a gay panic defense, and LGBTQ activists
Speaker 1: rallied behind Larry. In twenty eleven, Brandon McInerney was sentenced
Speaker 1: to twenty one years in prison for second degree murder,
Speaker 1: voluntary manslaughter, and the use of a firearm. And so,
Speaker 1: who was Larry or Letitia King? And how does this
Speaker 1: story reflect the very real dangers that queer teenagers face
Speaker 1: in schools across America.
Speaker 3: Today? We have the honor of speaking with someone who
Speaker 3: knew Larry King. Joining us now is Tiger, who was
Speaker 3: a close friend and a classmate of Larry's. Tiger, Welcome
Speaker 3: to Facing Evil.
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. It's been a while since
Speaker 5: I've talked to anybody about it, has it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But we're really happy that you're here with us today,
Speaker 3: and I'm just gonna jump right into the story. You know,
Speaker 3: this is such an important emotional story, you know, especially
Speaker 3: for you. Can you start by just telling us how
Speaker 3: you first met Larry and what your relationship was.
Speaker 5: So we met in third grade and I had been
Speaker 5: nude to the school.
Speaker 6: We had just moved.
Speaker 5: From one side of town to the other and didn't
Speaker 5: really have a lot of friends. I was just this
Speaker 5: little weird kid and I was larger than everybody. I
Speaker 5: was like a foot taller than everybody, little chunky kid
Speaker 5: with a crazy fluffy cheetah jacket, and I thought I
Speaker 5: was the coolest until I went to that school when
Speaker 5: I was not, and I just was like, Okay, this
Speaker 5: is my life now, and just happened to meet him.
Speaker 5: He was in the same class, and everybody else was
Speaker 5: making fun of my jacket, and he was like, can.
Speaker 6: I wear that?
Speaker 5: And he wore my jacket for the day, and that's
Speaker 5: how we became friends.
Speaker 6: I love that.
Speaker 2: I do have a quick question for you, Tiger. I
Speaker 2: always want to be respectful, And there of course has
Speaker 2: been you know, different reports, different things said about Larry
Speaker 2: as far as Larry's gender identity. As Larry's best friend
Speaker 2: from third grade, can you just give us a little
Speaker 2: tidbit about that.
Speaker 5: He was still in the process of figuring himself out,
Speaker 5: and we all were at that age, of course, so
Speaker 5: he was still going through who is he? What is
Speaker 5: he going to be? Who is he going to be?
Speaker 5: And during the time when he passed, he was still Larry.
Speaker 5: He was still he. He was figuring himself out, and
Speaker 5: he did go by Latitia sometimes, he did want to
Speaker 5: be called her sometimes, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: he was still he, and he was still Larry. So
Speaker 5: I don't feel that it's up to us or anybody
Speaker 5: that's doing a story about him to make that judgment,
Speaker 5: because he wasn't given that chance to make that judgment
Speaker 5: for himself. He didn't get to live long enough to
Speaker 5: figure it out. So out of respect for him, he
Speaker 5: should still be called Larry, and he should still be
Speaker 5: he him, because that's who he was.
Speaker 2: When he left, beautifully said thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I completely agree
Speaker 3: with you. You know, you said, you guys, you know,
Speaker 3: basically you grew up together, right starting at third grade?
Speaker 3: Did you know about what Larry was going through at home?
Speaker 3: Did he ever talk to you about what was going on?
Speaker 3: Back then?
Speaker 5: We were very very close, and our families knew each other,
Speaker 5: and there was nothing really off limits. So we were
Speaker 5: both very open with each other about the abuse that
Speaker 5: we were going through as kids. And so I knew
Speaker 5: a lot about his past. I knew a lot about
Speaker 5: you know, as much as he knew at the time.
Speaker 5: And then as he learned more, he would tell me more,
Speaker 5: and as things would happen, he would tell me what happened.
Speaker 5: So I was pretty in tune with what was going
Speaker 5: on in his personal life and where he had come from.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about this too, because I grew up
Speaker 3: in Hawaii, where it was, you know, a melt pot,
Speaker 3: a little bit of everything, and me myself being biracial,
Speaker 3: it was a great place to grow up. But you
Speaker 3: guys grew up in Oxnard, California. Did you find that
Speaker 3: there was diversity there or did you not, like, can
Speaker 3: you tell me a little bit of what it was
Speaker 3: like growing up in Oxnard, California being biracial.
Speaker 5: So in Oxnard, there's a lot of cultural diversity as adults.
Speaker 5: As children, it's much more judgmental. So there might be
Speaker 5: a large group of mixed children, but you can never
Speaker 5: really find your people because you're mixed children. You're too
Speaker 5: white for black folks, you're too black for white folks.
Speaker 6: It's one of the other.
Speaker 5: You can't really find yourself and your people, and mixed
Speaker 5: kids tend to just stay by themselves instead of grouping
Speaker 5: together and becoming that, well, we're the mixed group. It
Speaker 5: doesn't really work like that because, especially as a mixed
Speaker 5: kid who sees that you don't want to become another
Speaker 5: closed door for somebody else. So you just learned to
Speaker 5: create your own and stick to yourself instead of building
Speaker 5: another group of people to shun somebody else out. You
Speaker 5: find your people here and there, and a lot of
Speaker 5: the times you don't fit in with anybody, or you
Speaker 5: fit in with everybody, and you have to rely on
Speaker 5: yourself more than anybody else, and it raises tough kids.
Speaker 5: But those tough kids become tough adults, and that has
Speaker 5: built a really tough community, and tough isn't always good.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that you went through that, Tiger, and
Speaker 2: I'm also sorry how you mentioned that you went through
Speaker 2: abuse like Larry did as well.
Speaker 6: Oh, don't be sorry, don't be world.
Speaker 5: It's all passed. And it's sad to say, but most
Speaker 5: of the people who grew up where we grew up,
Speaker 5: that's not an uncommon thing, really very normal. So to
Speaker 5: hear kids that are having good childhoods is more of
Speaker 5: a surprise than not sure. At the end of the day,
Speaker 5: we can't change how we grew up, but I'm not
Speaker 5: gonna continue that path for my daughter. I can't continue
Speaker 5: that path. So I'm not sorry for anything that I
Speaker 5: went through. I'm not regretting anything that I went through, because,
Speaker 5: like I said before, it raises tough adults. But I
Speaker 5: chose my toughness to go through, loving people and keep
Speaker 5: caring for people and doing things. I wouldn't have been
Speaker 5: the way I am if I hadn't had the childhood
Speaker 5: that I had. So it has its negatives, but everything
Speaker 5: has negatives and positives. You just gotta choose which one
Speaker 5: you're gonna look at.
Speaker 2: I love everything that you shared with us, Tiger, every
Speaker 2: single word, and I feel like I can only step
Speaker 2: back in time or imagine what it was like for
Speaker 2: you and Larry to be friends going through life. Can
Speaker 2: you share a little bit about what you bonded over,
Speaker 2: what you liked to do? You know, we want to
Speaker 2: know about who Larry was as a human before Larry
Speaker 2: was a victim.
Speaker 6: Oh, he was fucking crisy.
Speaker 3: Sorry in a good way.
Speaker 6: Right. He was very, very crazy.
Speaker 5: We both were, but that's kind of just what made
Speaker 5: us us. We both came from broken homes and that
Speaker 5: built our friendship. And we were both dealing with so much,
Speaker 5: but we were able to confide in somebody who understood. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so we learned to grow together more and more and
Speaker 5: more the more that things happened.
Speaker 6: We were trouble. We were not.
Speaker 5: Like, oh, there's those good little kids. No, it was like,
Speaker 5: oh lord, what are they getting into?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 5: They're being quiet, so we know they're up to something. Yeah.
Speaker 5: We was those kids. We were the kids that, like
Speaker 5: you had to place them on one side of the
Speaker 5: room to keep them apart from each other. We were trouble.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna flip the switch a little bit and I'm
Speaker 3: going to ask you a question about Brandon. You know
Speaker 3: Brandon McInerney. Did you did you know him personally?
Speaker 5: I ain't heard that name and so long. Oh, so
Speaker 5: we knew each other out of school. My mom helped
Speaker 5: his mom when his mom was going through her addiction
Speaker 5: and getting away from her abusive relationship with his father.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 5: So my mom was kind of like a sponsor for
Speaker 5: her and would help kind of get her on the
Speaker 5: right track. So he actually went to like he was
Speaker 5: visiting his mom, and I was very active in what
Speaker 5: my mom did.
Speaker 6: She kind of forced us into it.
Speaker 5: So I knew a lot of the people that were
Speaker 5: going through the addiction struggles and the yeah, the women
Speaker 5: and Children's Center and things like that. I was very
Speaker 5: well known among them. And so we first met when
Speaker 5: he was visiting his mama at one of the shelter
Speaker 5: things or I forget what exactly it was, but we
Speaker 5: met there, and I don't know if he remembers that
Speaker 5: or not. He was not happy to be there, which
Speaker 5: I don't blame him.
Speaker 6: Who would be YEA.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was dealing with his own stuff and that
Speaker 5: bowled over into helping him grow into the person that
Speaker 5: he became.
Speaker 3: Did you two speak at that time?
Speaker 5: No, No, I had a tendency to be paraded around
Speaker 5: to make my family look good and and he was
Speaker 5: just dealing with his mama. But me and him, slowly
Speaker 5: but surely, I met him when I switched over to EO.
Speaker 5: Green in seventh grade. So when I switched to that school,
Speaker 5: me and him met and became kind of friends. And
Speaker 5: we had a pretty good friendship going as far as
Speaker 5: I knew until eighth grade. Then it started getting rocky.
Speaker 5: You know, we're all going through who we are and
Speaker 5: what we are, and in the middle of all this,
Speaker 5: we're all most of us dealing with things at home too.
Speaker 5: So all of those combined create a very toxic environment
Speaker 5: in the school because you've got all these kids who
Speaker 5: are already going through hormonal things, through growth spurds, through
Speaker 5: emotional issues, through family issues, and just trying to get
Speaker 5: through junior high. Like it's a lot. It's a lot
Speaker 5: for anybody. And unfortunately, he paired up with some other
Speaker 5: kids that were just as toxic and became one of
Speaker 5: the problem groups in the school because of their way
Speaker 5: of coping with what we were all dealing.
Speaker 2: With I see, So that was happening even before he
Speaker 2: was bullying Larry.
Speaker 5: It's hard to say before bullying Larry, because Larry has
Speaker 5: been bullied every day of his life. There was never
Speaker 5: a time in our childhood where I was not around
Speaker 5: that he was not being bullied. And in the beginning
Speaker 5: of seventh grade he was having a really hard time
Speaker 5: because we had went to separate schools and he ended
Speaker 5: up in EO. Green. I ended up in Blackstock, which
Speaker 5: is another junior high not that far sure, and he
Speaker 5: had to deal all by himself. Yeah, when we were separate,
Speaker 5: I was sad and he was hurt.
Speaker 2: I'm thankful that he had you with him despite all
Speaker 2: that toxic, horrific energy around him.
Speaker 5: Don't want it fool you. We had our fights. We
Speaker 5: fought like siblings.
Speaker 3: Here is your brother, you said, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah. It was one of those things where you keep
Speaker 5: fighting each other and then they do this no contact contract, right,
Speaker 5: so you've got to go like fourteen days without touching, talking, nothing,
Speaker 5: and we'd last like maybe twenty four hours and then
Speaker 5: be back to normal. And finally the school pulled in
Speaker 5: our parents and was like, we can't get them to
Speaker 5: stop talking, we keep doing there's no contact, and finally
Speaker 5: his guardians and my mother was like, at this point,
Speaker 5: just stop trying. They're gonna work it on their own life.
Speaker 5: They're gonna fight, but they're gonna work it out. Just
Speaker 5: let them deal with it. So they stopped trying to
Speaker 5: do that with us.
Speaker 3: The fact that you came back to the school, I'm
Speaker 3: sure it allowed him to have a little bit more freedom.
Speaker 3: He knew his tiger was somewhere nearby.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, and whenever there was issues, he knew where
Speaker 5: to go. Like it wasn't one of those. He's dealing
Speaker 5: with issues. He can't confine me. We would find each
Speaker 5: other in regardless. So I'm gonna push you to be
Speaker 5: you because I don't like fake shit, So you just
Speaker 5: don't have to be you, and just don't worry about
Speaker 5: other people. I don't care about other people. I'm gonna
Speaker 5: be me regardless, so I expect that from the people
Speaker 5: around me. M hm. I do occasionally regret pushing him
Speaker 5: to be himself so much, because in the end, no
Speaker 5: matter who pulled the trigger, no matter what the reason
Speaker 5: may be that led up to that, and it's a
Speaker 5: part of that lineup of how did this happen.
Speaker 6: So there are quite a.
Speaker 5: Few times that I regret not telling him to just
Speaker 5: just chill out a little bit, knowing where we lived.
Speaker 5: But I think even if he did that and lived
Speaker 5: through everything, he wouldn't really have lived through everything. He
Speaker 5: would have had a half life. That's not fair to him.
Speaker 5: So you can't really ask out of somebody. You should
Speaker 5: live your life to the fullest, one hundred percent. Don't
Speaker 5: water it down. Don't be somebody's cup of tea. Be
Speaker 5: somebody shot a whiskey. And if they can't swallow you,
Speaker 5: let him choke.
Speaker 2: Well we'll tiger with everything that you know you've been
Speaker 2: so open with us about. If please, if you don't
Speaker 2: feel comfortable talking about this, please don't feel like you
Speaker 2: have to. You know, we do not sensationalize, nor do
Speaker 2: we want to sensationalize what happened, and we never want
Speaker 2: to do that on facing evil.
Speaker 3: But from your.
Speaker 2: Perspective, what was it like the day that Larry was shot?
Speaker 5: So the day that he got shot, I was late
Speaker 5: to school that I had been dealing with some stuff
Speaker 5: at home and I just I was late and I
Speaker 5: got there to the front area right as.
Speaker 6: He got there.
Speaker 5: Because he was late as well, okay. And the first
Speaker 5: thing that I noticed was he always wore this collar shirt,
Speaker 5: a gray sweatshirt on top of that with his little
Speaker 5: collar sticking at and these baggy two size too big,
Speaker 5: like dark blue uniform pants that were just bagging horrible,
Speaker 5: and these torn up tennis shoes that just did not
Speaker 5: do him justice. And that was what he wore every day,
Speaker 5: every day. So there was never anything that you'd be like.
Speaker 6: Okay, that's different.
Speaker 5: Until the few months leading up to the shooting.
Speaker 6: He had went to oh lord, I can't remember the.
Speaker 3: Facility Cosa PACIFICA.
Speaker 5: Yes, so he'd been moved into the facility right before
Speaker 5: all this happened. He was given his choice of clothing,
Speaker 5: so he was able to pick out girls clothes, girls pants,
Speaker 5: and was changing his style up and figuring himself out out.
Speaker 5: So at that point you didn't really know what he
Speaker 5: was going to come to school wearing. There was day
Speaker 5: he came to school in boots and you were like,
Speaker 5: I know, your feet.
Speaker 7: Hurt, and let me tell you, he walked them things
Speaker 7: through that school and I was like, my back hurt
Speaker 7: just thinking about it.
Speaker 5: Do that, But he did, and he just wanted to
Speaker 5: figure himself out. He wanted to be him, and that
Speaker 5: day he was wearing the usual outfit that he would wear,
Speaker 5: the little sweater and all that. It just seemed weird,
Speaker 5: and he was running off into his class. I got
Speaker 5: moved to the special education class, the Gift and Talented,
Speaker 5: and I was in that class with Brandon, and then
Speaker 5: they moved Brandon into.
Speaker 3: That class into the computer class.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's how they ended up in that classroom at
Speaker 5: the same time.
Speaker 3: I see.
Speaker 5: They were right across from each other, so we were
Speaker 5: going in the same direction and I called out to him,
Speaker 5: and instead of the usual turnaround saying something smart ass
Speaker 5: and getting along with our day, he turned around really
Speaker 5: scared and then just kind of went running off to
Speaker 5: his class.
Speaker 6: And I was like, that's way weird.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like it doesn't make sense, but okay, you do
Speaker 5: you and didn't really think much of it. And his
Speaker 5: class ended up going to the computer room, which is
Speaker 5: right down the hall from where we were, and we
Speaker 5: heard the first shot, and I remember everybody talking about like,
Speaker 5: who's slamming doors?
Speaker 3: Didn't even sound like a gun shot?
Speaker 5: Well, most kids around there weren't used to guns. I
Speaker 5: grew up around guns.
Speaker 3: So did you know you knew?
Speaker 5: Yeah, automatically, I was like, irong a couple of minutes past,
Speaker 5: and then a second one, they assumed somebody was slamming
Speaker 5: a door, and I'm like, that doesn't sound right. And
Speaker 5: then the secretary from the front was on the speaker like, oh,
Speaker 5: we're on lockdown. Everybody get down, everybody lock your doors.
Speaker 5: And I made a stupid joke about, oh, somebody got shot.
Speaker 5: Oh shit, yeah, and didn't think twice of it, me
Speaker 5: being the class clown. And we all locked down. We're
Speaker 5: all sitting on the floor talking and stuff, and we're
Speaker 5: just assuming somebody acted a fool. And I'm like, I'm
Speaker 5: still thinking, like that didn't sound right, but maybe, you know,
Speaker 5: maybe I'm just crazy. And then Melissa, one of the
Speaker 5: girls that I was friends with, and she got a
Speaker 5: text from somebody else in Larry's class that said Brandon
Speaker 5: shawt Larry, and she yelled it out to the class
Speaker 5: and it all kind of went hazy.
Speaker 6: At that point.
Speaker 5: Of course, I was told by the teacher at that
Speaker 5: time that I fell down and then started screaming I knew,
Speaker 5: I knew, I.
Speaker 6: Knew, I knew.
Speaker 2: You don't even remember that I.
Speaker 5: Don't remember nothing until a little.
Speaker 6: Bit later on.
Speaker 3: You blacked it out.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't blame you.
Speaker 5: I was sitting there screaming I knew, and she didn't
Speaker 5: really understand what was going on, and she said she
Speaker 5: tried to get it out of me, tried to figure
Speaker 5: out what I was talking about, and I eventually told
Speaker 5: her I knew he was going to shoot him, and
Speaker 5: so she got a hold of one of the police
Speaker 5: officers that was outside, and they were like, yeah, we'll
Speaker 5: get her in a second.
Speaker 6: And pull her aside and talk to her.
Speaker 5: And somebody was at the window. We had pretty high windows,
Speaker 5: and they said they saw him getting wheeled out, and
Speaker 5: that's kind of when I start to come to not
Speaker 5: a whole lot, but I remember thinking, like in a wheelchair,
Speaker 5: it just wasn't computing. So they were like, yeah, they're
Speaker 5: wheeling them out.
Speaker 6: I'm like, you know, he can walk, he can walk
Speaker 6: in heels.
Speaker 5: That boy could walk right out of school. Just not
Speaker 5: not understanding.
Speaker 2: Your heart was probably protecting you from the trauma, of course.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 5: I was completely shut down, completely shut down, and then
Speaker 5: all up a little bit hazy again. And then I
Speaker 5: remember being in front of an officer. In the cafeteria,
Speaker 5: all the tables were out, and ever so often you'd
Speaker 5: see a detective or an officer and a student, and
Speaker 5: I remember talking to him about what had happened. He's like,
Speaker 5: you told your teacher you knew, and I'm like, I did.
Speaker 5: I knew the day before. I don't think I told
Speaker 5: y'all that. So the day before the shooting, at lunch,
Speaker 5: Larry was kind of being a fool doing whatever, and
Speaker 5: I was like, I'm gonna go do my own thing.
Speaker 5: And from what I've heard from other people, he was
Speaker 5: hanging out with another group of girls that I don't
Speaker 5: really associate with. They weren't my cup of tea, so
Speaker 5: they were hanging out with him, and I guess they
Speaker 5: were all asking people to be their Valentines and things
Speaker 5: like that, and they convinced him to ask Brandon to
Speaker 5: be his valie time and he asked him in front
Speaker 5: of all the boys they were all playing basketball, and
Speaker 5: they started teasing him about it. He got pissed and
Speaker 5: I'm not around.
Speaker 6: I don't know any of that. So that is all
Speaker 6: that's what I heard. Yeah, that is all hears say.
Speaker 5: But as the bell rang were all headed to our
Speaker 5: classes after lunch, and mine was art, so I'm headed
Speaker 5: there and Brandon came up to me and told me
Speaker 5: to say goodbye to Larry because I wasn't gonna see
Speaker 5: him again, and me, not thinking about it, was like,
Speaker 5: you're a dumb piece of shit. And we exchanged a
Speaker 5: few words, and I told him what I thought about him,
Speaker 5: and that was that.
Speaker 3: That's the day before, right the day before?
Speaker 5: Correct, Yes, And then after school I ended up having
Speaker 5: attention and I ended up going out and Larry was
Speaker 5: still there waiting for his ride because he was at
Speaker 5: the facility still, so they came to pick him up
Speaker 5: from school, gotcha, and he.
Speaker 6: Looked real like battered up.
Speaker 5: His hair was all a mess, his shirt was all
Speaker 5: ripped up.
Speaker 6: He'd been in a scuffle.
Speaker 5: And so I asked him automatically what the heck happened,
Speaker 5: and he didn't want to tell me, and I just
Speaker 5: kept on and kept on and kept on, and I'm like,
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna let you get in the car until
Speaker 5: you tell me what's going on. And finally he told
Speaker 5: me it was some of the boys, but he wouldn't
Speaker 5: name any names. YadA YadA, And again from hearing it
Speaker 5: from other people. Supposedly it was the group of boys
Speaker 5: including Brandon.
Speaker 3: The basketball boys.
Speaker 5: Yes, it was the group of boys around the courts
Speaker 5: when he did the Valentine Game or whatever they called it.
Speaker 5: But he would and tell me because he knows, yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm a mess. So he didn't want me to get
Speaker 5: in the middle of it, and so I was like okay.
Speaker 5: Still didn't put two and two together, but I'm like okay.
Speaker 5: And then fast forward to after the incident. I don't
Speaker 5: really remember much of talking to the officer. I remember
Speaker 5: explaining what had happened. I remember being in front of him,
Speaker 5: but I don't remember actually talking to him. And then
Speaker 5: the moment that I really came to.
Speaker 6: I think it was Jackie.
Speaker 5: I can't remember the night, but she was one of
Speaker 5: the people that was sitting right next to him, and
Speaker 5: I was leaving the cafeteria as she was coming into
Speaker 5: the cafeteria and she had blood on her and that's
Speaker 5: really the moment where I was like, I'm back, m
Speaker 5: something's really wrong here. They eventually let us go home,
Speaker 5: and everybody was trying to figure out what was going on,
Speaker 5: and I was trying to figure out how to get
Speaker 5: to the hospital and they were just like, he's.
Speaker 6: Dealing with a lot. They're going to be doing a lot.
Speaker 6: Just give them some time. And I'm like, okay, like.
Speaker 5: I don't want to, but they're like, you don't need
Speaker 5: to be there right now, not right now with why
Speaker 5: he is.
Speaker 6: You're gonna lose it. Just give them some time.
Speaker 5: And so I was still under the impression that he
Speaker 5: was very much.
Speaker 3: Alive and going to make it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 5: Going through surgery dealing with his health. Obviously he's not
Speaker 5: gonna die, right, He's just dealing with some health issues.
Speaker 5: And the next day we all went back to school.
Speaker 3: The school didn't shut down like what they did.
Speaker 5: Their answer to everything was we're going to put some
Speaker 5: crisis counselors in the library if you need them, and
Speaker 5: there was three counselors available.
Speaker 6: For a whole school.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 6: I decided. I was like, he's gonna be fine. I'll
Speaker 6: see him after school.
Speaker 5: He'll be fine. So I'm like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 5: gonna make this huge ass card from I went to
Speaker 5: one of my teachers, I can't remember which one, and
Speaker 5: I was like, I need.
Speaker 6: Some card stock.
Speaker 5: So broke into the drawer because she didn't want to
Speaker 5: give it to me, and got some big old card
Speaker 5: stock paper and I made this huge, almost like a
Speaker 5: booklet card and I wrote a message, and then somebody
Speaker 5: else was like, oh well, let me maude a message,
Speaker 5: and then little by little, everybody started writing messages. So
Speaker 5: I kept having to add paper and add paper and
Speaker 5: add paper, and pretty soon I could break into this
Speaker 5: no more. So I ended up with this little booklet
Speaker 5: of just people writing notes saying they were sorry, And
Speaker 5: a lot of the messages are people saying they're sorry
Speaker 5: for making fun of him so much and bullying him
Speaker 5: and beating him up. And instead of it being hey,
Speaker 5: get better, because.
Speaker 6: The front of it says get well.
Speaker 5: Soon, that was my mindset. Instead it became a confessional
Speaker 5: and everybody saying their confession and signing their name, and
Speaker 5: I still have that.
Speaker 3: Tigery. You know, I'm so sorry, Like my heart breaks
Speaker 3: for you and for all of you guys, all of
Speaker 3: the kids that had to go through that, Like you
Speaker 3: shouldn't have been the one to go get the paper.
Speaker 3: Your teachers, you know, should have made that something that
Speaker 3: you all did together. And to just have like three counselors,
Speaker 3: they should have that just is devastating to me, and
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm sorry in so many ways possible that
Speaker 3: you you had to go through this without, you know,
Speaker 3: a support system, especially especially at that age.
Speaker 5: They are raising tough kids. Yes, so if they didn't
Speaker 5: need therapy and all this stuff growing up, why would
Speaker 5: these kids need therapy and stuff growing up? It's generations
Speaker 5: of lack of care and we were just one of
Speaker 5: the generations.
Speaker 3: A different time, a different era. I get that, you know,
Speaker 3: but it's still it's like, my heart just breaks for
Speaker 3: you guys. You know, I know you're a tough woman
Speaker 3: and you've you've moved through this, and you know I
Speaker 3: have created your own life and forged through. But still
Speaker 3: I wish that the teachers would have done something for Larry,
Speaker 3: Like did they do anything for Larry?
Speaker 6: Did they they sign the car?
Speaker 5: Not all of them. In fact, we had one teacher
Speaker 5: who said he shouldn't have been living his life the
Speaker 5: way he was living it and it wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2: I think I saw that on the documentary that you
Speaker 2: were all featured in Valentine Road.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, she very proudly stated that, and me and
Speaker 5: her head bututted heads a few times. She was very
Speaker 5: hardcore in her beliefs. But you don't say that to
Speaker 5: kids that are still struggling now.
Speaker 3: So you're saying till this day, there's still no monument
Speaker 3: to Larry at this school. There's no tree, there's no bench.
Speaker 3: There is there something. There's a tree without Larry's name, right.
Speaker 5: They made it very clear it was gonna be for Larry.
Speaker 5: We fought for that tree. We had to jump through
Speaker 5: hoops to get that tree. And at the end of
Speaker 5: the day they planted the tree and would not mention
Speaker 5: his name.
Speaker 2: Well, we will keep mentioning his name, Tiger absolutely.
Speaker 5: I mean if you ask kids nowadays, they won't know,
Speaker 5: they won't know what that's tree for. They wouldn't even
Speaker 5: recognize it because the day put up somewhere special. There's
Speaker 5: nothing really beautiful around it. There's nothing. And the whole
Speaker 5: point about it was it was supposed to be this
Speaker 5: beautiful tree to show the growth that he didn't get
Speaker 5: to do, and to have these flowers around it, to
Speaker 5: pull in butterflies because those were his favorite team Like,
Speaker 5: there was so much planned and at the end of
Speaker 5: the day, why would you say his name?
Speaker 3: We will, And that's why it's so important that you
Speaker 3: know around the show today to tell this story, because
Speaker 3: this is a powerful story that everybody needs to hear.
Speaker 6: It's a story that a lot of people have forgotten.
Speaker 3: That's so true.
Speaker 2: And that's the beauty of storytelling, right, beautiful part of
Speaker 2: podcasting and television, movies and all these things. We can
Speaker 2: still tell these stories. And I know, to you, Larry
Speaker 2: is not just a story.
Speaker 6: Oh no, not at all, not at all.
Speaker 2: And I'd love to know, because you're a strong, amazing
Speaker 2: human being, how has Larry affected your life? And how
Speaker 2: did you move onward and upward through everything you had
Speaker 2: to go through through this horrific trauma.
Speaker 5: I didn't for a long time, and just like everybody else,
Speaker 5: we didn't deal with it. We didn't have appropriate support
Speaker 5: to deal with it. So you learn not to deal
Speaker 5: with it. It's the story of that name, like that
Speaker 5: whole area.
Speaker 6: That's just how we deal with things. We don't. We
Speaker 6: just sweep it under the rug and keep moving.
Speaker 5: And then I'd say probably when I was an adult,
Speaker 5: probably about eighteen nineteen, that's when I really started figuring
Speaker 5: my emotions out and healing from my own trauma, from
Speaker 5: my own family and my own past. And didn't realize
Speaker 5: how much that still affected me until that topic was
Speaker 5: brought up in therapy and I was like, no, let's
Speaker 5: not dig into that. So it took a lot of therapy,
Speaker 5: a lot, and.
Speaker 3: Therapy is amazing.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, yes, hard therapy and a lot of medication,
Speaker 5: and it finally got me to the point where I
Speaker 5: could come to terms.
Speaker 6: You're never gonna.
Speaker 5: Be okay with it, but you can come to terms
Speaker 5: to the point that you're okay with life now.
Speaker 2: And are you okay with life now? Tiger?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, I have a beautiful life. My son has
Speaker 5: his initials his Lawrence votes LF, and my son is
Speaker 5: named Lyndon Frasier LF, So that was one of the
Speaker 5: ways that I wanted to represent him. And then my
Speaker 5: daughter we have wind chimes with butterflies for him. We
Speaker 5: talk about him regularly. He's an active part of her
Speaker 5: family history and it's part of why I live so
Speaker 5: goal focused.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 5: Yes, I have a very very productive life. I have
Speaker 5: beautiful things to show for it. I have a beautiful family,
Speaker 5: beautiful businesses.
Speaker 6: I have a beautiful life.
Speaker 3: Tiger.
Speaker 2: If you want to share, maybe how you want people
Speaker 2: to remember Larry or how you remember Larry.
Speaker 5: It's not so much about remembering him, and I don't
Speaker 5: think he would want it to be about remembering him.
Speaker 6: Well, depending on the day, he's kind of cocky.
Speaker 5: But it's not about him. This story isn't singular. There's
Speaker 5: entirely too many people dealing with similar situations and having
Speaker 5: similar stories. And I don't think that his death is
Speaker 5: just about him, and I don't feel that his story
Speaker 5: should be about just him. I think that his story
Speaker 5: is one stitch in a blanket of so many similar
Speaker 5: people who are dealing with the same pain and the
Speaker 5: same confusion and the same growth that he was dealing with.
Speaker 5: And if we single out one person, then you don't
Speaker 5: get to see the whole blanket. You can't look at
Speaker 5: one string and go, man, that's a gorgeous pattern, because
Speaker 5: it's not. It's one string. But when you step back
Speaker 5: and you look at everybody that's dealing with similar situations,
Speaker 5: it's not just a story. It's reality. And his story
Speaker 5: is the reality for entirely too many people up to
Speaker 5: this day. And I think it shouldn't be about what
Speaker 5: happened to him and how it ended. It should be about,
Speaker 5: you know, the eighth graders that are here right now, Yes,
Speaker 5: who are going through this right now. Absolutely, his story
Speaker 5: is not about him dying. His story is about that
Speaker 5: eighth grader today who's going to be able to live
Speaker 5: their life to the fullest because somebody somewhere remembered that
Speaker 5: story that they heard about that little boy getting shot,
Speaker 5: and they took his story serious and looked out for
Speaker 5: him and made sure that that little boy got to
Speaker 5: grow up and make his choices for his life and
Speaker 5: have his future. Larry's story isn't his. We're all part
Speaker 5: of it, but at the end of the day, his
Speaker 5: story is for the little kids now who need a
Speaker 5: future that is safe. So I don't think that anyone
Speaker 5: should just focus on him, although I'm sure he'd love it,
Speaker 5: but I'm just saying I am sure he'd be all
Speaker 5: about it. But at the end of the day, it's
Speaker 5: not his story. This is humanity story and how we
Speaker 5: choose to move forward with it and if we want
Speaker 5: this to continue or not.
Speaker 3: Yes, agreed. I don't even have words because you have
Speaker 3: just said so many powerful things on this episode that
Speaker 3: we can all reach deep in our souls and take
Speaker 3: a look at you know, and have these important conversations
Speaker 3: and that's why you know we have you here on
Speaker 3: facing evil to share your story, to share, like you said,
Speaker 3: our story, it's our collective story, it's our quilt right
Speaker 3: that we will continue to stitch, stitch by stitch, just
Speaker 3: like you said, Tiger, Thank you again, thank you.
Speaker 6: For sharing all of our stories.
Speaker 2: Today's message of hope and healing goes out to people
Speaker 2: like Larry King. Larry was flamboyant, Larry was unapologetic, and
Speaker 2: Larry was utterly himself. He had the strength to be
Speaker 2: himself even when it wasn't comfortable.
Speaker 3: That kind of strength can really inspire people around you,
Speaker 3: even people you don't realize you're inspiring. In the documentary
Speaker 3: Valentine Road, a friend of Larry said that he inspired
Speaker 3: her to feel comfortable enough to dress as she liked
Speaker 3: and eventually to come out as gay.
Speaker 2: Bold behavior inspires others to be bold and to speak
Speaker 2: their own truth. It's all a part of building a
Speaker 2: world that's more open, healthier, and ultimately happier and safer
Speaker 2: for everyone. And that is a truly beautiful thing.
Speaker 3: So to Larry and others like him, onward and upward,
Speaker 3: e moua, e moua, Well, that's our show for today.
Speaker 2: We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
Speaker 2: and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.
Speaker 3: Find us on social media or email us at Facingevilpod
Speaker 3: at Tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 2: And one small request if you haven't already, please find
Speaker 2: us on iTunes and give us a good rating and
Speaker 2: a good review. If you like what we do, your
Speaker 2: support is always cherished.
Speaker 3: Until next time, Aloha.
Speaker 1: Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
Speaker 1: The show is hosted by Russia Paccuerero in a Vetchintila,
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick, Alex Williams, our executive producers on behalf of iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald albright In
Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV,
Speaker 1: alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmadge. Original
Speaker 1: music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on social
Speaker 1: media or email us at Facingevilpod at Tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows,