1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Fry and we talked about Susie King 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: Taylor on the show this week. Yes, indeed, she is 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: somebody who I discovered. Sometimes when I Google something, there 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: is often over on the left a little thing that's 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: like people also searched for, And I don't even remember 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: what I was googling, but under the people also searched for, 9 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: I saw this very striking photo and I was like, 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: who is that person? And I clicked on it and 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: it was Susie King Taylor, and I was immediately captivated, 12 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: and like, I want to do an episode on this person, 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: not just because her memoir is, as far as I know, 14 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: unique in the world of like first person writing about 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: civil war, but also because it shows in so many 16 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: different ways the resourcefulness and ingenuity and determination of enslaved 17 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: people and freed people and people who liberated themselves. I 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: feel like sometimes there is a perception that there was 19 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: like a passivity among enslaved people of like begrudgingly accepting 20 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: what was going on, which is not correct at all, 21 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: and her story just has so many ways that she 22 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: and her family were pushing back on all of that. 23 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: There was, you know, little things from having been able 24 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: to maintain these connections among themselves and having a family 25 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: history that they knew that went back generations, to her 26 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: forging passes for her grandmother at the age of like thirteen. 27 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: I'd feel like we should also note that they're an 28 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: ongoing and very troubling thing that happens is like black 29 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: children being interpreted as adults rather than children and news 30 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: reporting and stuff. So I don't want to fall into 31 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: that trope. But at the same time, the idea that 32 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: she was forging passes for her grandmother, who could not 33 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: read or write, at the age of roughly thirteen, I 34 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: found that incredible, amazing and just such a good example 35 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: of the kind of things that people did do to 36 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: try to push back and make a better life for 37 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: themselves in a world that was set up to not 38 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: allow that. Well, and all of it leading up to 39 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: her ability to do that, right, like that entire community 40 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: effort to have a secret school. Yeah, is enthralling to consider. 41 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: How incredibly the thing that I bring to mind is 42 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: not a good correlation, which is that It makes me 43 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: think of when kids are on movie sets and they're 44 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: not allowed to tell anything about it, right, It's very hard. 45 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: That's like one of the things that people will say, like, 46 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: I can't believe nothing leaked same. I mean, it's a 47 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: bunch of kids being told to read, being taught to 48 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: read and write, which is illegal, and no one can 49 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: know about it, and they all kept the secret, which 50 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: is amazing to me. Yeah, I wish I knew more 51 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: about what happens to the rest of her family during 52 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: the war, because her memoir makes it sound like it 53 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: was her and her uncle and her uncle's family who 54 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: all escaped ultimately to Saint Simon's Island, as she clearly 55 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: still had connections to her grandmother and other family members, 56 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: But I am less clear on like her immediate family, 57 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: her parents and siblings, like what happened with them during 58 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: the war. I did not read her memoir as you did, 59 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: but I found myself wondering, and this is strictly conjecture. 60 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: What made me think about it was when we got 61 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: to the part where she talked about her son, but 62 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: she doesn't mention him by name. It almost feels like 63 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: things that are painful she distances and doesn't talk about 64 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah, so I can imagine whatever happened to 65 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: separate her from her immediate family, probably she didn't want 66 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: to think about. I also tried to find more information 67 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: about him, what his name was, what his date of 68 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: birth was, and that maybe information that exists somewhere. There's 69 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: a lot, like a lot of records of enslaved people, 70 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: previously enslaved people that like the records are just not there, 71 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: things were destroyed during the war, or they were never 72 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: kept in the first place, or like the records of 73 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: a family might have been an inventory of the household 74 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: of the people who were enslaving them, and you know, 75 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: if if their house was burned down during the war, 76 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: just may not be there anymore. Like there's it's hard 77 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: to know whether that information exists. It seems as though 78 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: her son, being born after the war was over, that 79 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: information might exist somewhere. I was not able to track 80 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: it down. If so, and that I just I found 81 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: the story of her trip to to go look after 82 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: him and not being able to bring it bring him 83 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: home just to heartbreaking. Yeah. In my original draft of 84 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: the outline, I had ended with her quote from the 85 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: chapter on her reflections on the current time. And then 86 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,239 Speaker 1: I was like, I think that is not the note 87 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: that I want to end this episode on, because while 88 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: to me, that whole paragraph is still so relevant today, 89 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: so much of her story to me was about resilience 90 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: and ingenuity. That that like, I wanted to include that, 91 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: but I didn't necessarily want to end the episode there. Yeah, yeah, 92 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: I think that's fair. I do want to mention I'm 93 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 1: presuming that the picture that you're talking about that caught 94 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: your eye is the only one I've ever seen of her, 95 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: a photograph where she's in that black it looks almost 96 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: like a morning suit with a veil. Yeah. Yeah, I'm 97 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: in love with that jacket. Yeah, I've only seen it. 98 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: I've only seen one other picture that is was labeled 99 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: as being of her, and I really it can be 100 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: hard sometimes to tell whether two different pictures of the 101 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: same person are the same person. Like there's so much 102 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: about lighting and camera angles and how people's faces change 103 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: at different parts of their life, Like it can be hard. 104 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: But I was like, I'm not This picture is the 105 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: picture from her book with her signature under it in 106 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: a lot of places that you find it printed, But 107 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: like this other picture did not have that kind of framing, 108 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm not sure if that's the 109 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: same person or not. Maybe maybe not, don't really know. 110 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: One story that I had had in the outline that 111 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: I took out just because it was it wasn't central 112 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: to the story and the episode itself was sort of ballooning, 113 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: was that she and other folks like from the camp 114 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: had been moved to a new location and she had 115 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: left some of her things where they had previously been stationed, 116 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: and she went back for her stuff, and she and 117 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: a friend caught a ride with the commissary wagon to 118 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: get out there, and then they were just going to 119 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: walk back, and the walk back turned out to take 120 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: way longer than they thought, so long and so tiring, 121 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: and she was like, our feet hurt so much that 122 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: we took our shoes off to see if that would help, 123 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: and that actually made it worse. And it got dark 124 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: and we just everybody, we were like, what's going to happen. 125 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: We got to the camp, we didn't have the pass 126 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: code to get back in because we didn't know we 127 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: were going to be gone for that long. We you know, 128 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: the guard though, knew who we were, they you know, 129 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: and let us in and from that point on the 130 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: soldiers would make jokes about her being a deserter. And 131 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: I just found that, like the finding humor in this 132 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: whole situation and it continuing to find humor in it. 133 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: I loved that. So I was like, I'll talk about 134 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: that on Friday instead of having it sort of an 135 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: aside in the middle of this otherwise not focused on 136 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: that exact thing episode. Yeah, I love it though. Yeah, 137 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure grateful. She wrote her autobiography Me Too. It 138 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: is digitized. You can read the whole thing online. There's 139 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: been kind of a push in the last few years 140 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: to make her better known, which I think is great. 141 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: We talked about Old Ribbon this week. We did. We did. 142 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: I Yeah, I did not know what this was at 143 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: all when you sent this outline to me. Oh, I'm 144 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: so glad. I'm like, we're getting along. And I just 145 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: got to the part where and then they put a 146 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: horrid lizard in the time capsule and I was like, 147 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you did what I'm at now. Yeah, I 148 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: mean that part is tricky, and it's interesting because some 149 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: of the modern retellings try to soften what that is, 150 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: where they're like, no, he explained to his son that 151 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: lizards live for a hundred years, and so it was 152 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: okay to take his pet. But none of them contemporary 153 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: accounts I read ever discuss him just taking his kid's pet. 154 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: I mean, aside from you know there, they're they're multiple 155 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: prongs to this fork of problems, right, Like one is 156 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: you put an animal and sealed it in a thing, yeah, 157 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: in a building. And the other is you took your 158 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: kid's pet, yeah, which is a jerk move too. All true. 159 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I had a textbook. I've 160 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: talked about this textbook on the show before, and people 161 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: very helpfully tried to send lay were like, was this 162 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: the textbook? And none of them were the textbook. It 163 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: was a textbook that I remember having a section that 164 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: was about like, here are things that people used to 165 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: think about life that they don't anymore, And one was 166 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: people thought that goose barnacles could become geese through spontaneous generation. 167 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: And I remember one of the things that they're being 168 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: that frogs and toads could live for a hundred years. 169 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: And when I was a child, I was like, why 170 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: would anyone think this? And I was very annoyed and perplexed. Yeah, 171 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: humans have thought some crazy things over the years. I 172 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: will say, if you like me, we're a cartoon kid. 173 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: You may be going, is this where the idea for 174 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: Michigan Jay Frog came from? And the answer is yes. Okay, 175 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: So have you remember Hello my baby, Hello my honey, 176 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: being sung by a frog who was found in a 177 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: building that was being taken apart. I didn't remember that 178 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: part of it. Oh, yeah, that's his original. His original 179 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: cartoon is where he is found by a construction worker 180 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: in a building and the construction worker is so excited 181 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: to show people he found this frog that dances and sings. Yeah. 182 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: Every time you would show the frog to somebody, the 183 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: frog would just sit there and go rib it and 184 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: it was amazing. I remember that part, and as soon 185 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: as you said the name, I immediately saw, like the 186 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: Hello my baby, Like I saw that whole sequence in 187 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: my head. But I did not remember the other part. Yes, 188 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: the other thing that is sort of related to a cartoon, 189 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: but not. I don't think that they got it from 190 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: this story, but I could be wrong. Is that apparently 191 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: will Wood called his horned lizard Blinkie, which is also 192 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: the name of the three eyed fish and the Simpsons 193 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: that Marge cooks for mister Burns when he comes to 194 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: their house for a photo op dinner, because her point 195 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: is that his nuclear power plant is poisoning the water 196 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: and causing mutations in the animals, and she makes him 197 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 1: eat this three eyed fish. There is another thing. I 198 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: didn't realize it until I was like two thirds of 199 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: the way done with the episode, but Memory Palace did 200 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: a one of their short episodes on Old Rip last fall. Yeah, 201 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: you know, Nate to Mayo tells the story in such 202 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: a beautiful way that I was crying about horned lizards 203 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: by the end of it, and my husband was like, 204 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: are you okay, And I was like, no, yeah, very 205 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: Nate to me, I can absolutely I have not heard 206 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: this particular episode of the Memory Palace, but I'm like, oh, 207 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: it absolutely makes sense that Nate would do that. Uh yeah, 208 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: so also excellent if you want sort of a very 209 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: beautifully told, more artfully shortened, an edited version of this. Yeah. 210 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: He tweeted recently like a description of the show that 211 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 1: was something like, it's not a poem, but it's very 212 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: poetic and has some of the same goals as poetry. 213 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: And I was like, Yeah, that's that's what we Todd 214 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: describe as a listener. That's how I would describe it short. Yeah. 215 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: There is another thing that comes up that I think 216 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: is fascinating in all of this, which is at various 217 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: points in time, and I didn't include them because they 218 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: often contradict one another. There have been interviews with old 219 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: timers who were part of either no longer I mean 220 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: they've I presume most of them are gone at this point, 221 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: but in the you know, the earlier part of the 222 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: twentieth century, who were there in eighteen ninety seven when 223 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: the building was put together and the frog slash lizard 224 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: slash toad was put inside, or people who were there 225 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty eight when it was all opened up, 226 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: and their accounts of it are fascinating because in some 227 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: ways they have just picked up and the legend, but 228 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: in other ways, in the midst of that, they will 229 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: give details that are completely inaccurate or just completely different 230 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: from the way that like the newspaper printed stories are 231 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: Like several of them mentioned that when the judge first 232 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: held him up for the crowd to see, which is 233 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: reported in all the papers as him being held by 234 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: one leg Many of the accounts from people that were 235 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: alive then are like he picked him up by the tail, 236 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: and it's like it's a small detail, but it's one 237 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: of those things where I'm like, this kind of you know, 238 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: offers insight into how much this is just like a legend, 239 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: a shared false memory that everybody eventually had. They would 240 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: tell you with complete integrity. I don't think any of 241 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: them were trying to fib about it that they had 242 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: seen this happen. And it's like, well, yeah, well, our 243 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: memories are sieves. I mean, they just are. They're sieves, 244 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: and they're also easy to reimprint with things that you 245 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: will believe or that you saw or that you remember, 246 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: but they're not really correct. I mean, I don't know 247 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: if you and your beloved go through this, Tracy, but 248 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: I know Brian and I have now been married twenty 249 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: six years. There are things that we'll talk about and 250 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: we won't get the details right, and one of us 251 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: will be like, that is not how it went, yeah, 252 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: and it'll be like, no, this is exactly what I remember, 253 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: and it's like, no, that's not quite right. And sometimes 254 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: there's photographic evidence to show it. No, no, we've both 255 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: done it. Memories change shift. It's fascinating. Please don't put 256 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: animals in construction. Don't do that. Please don't seal animals 257 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: in anything. Shouldn't be No. I was upset, I mean, 258 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: and so I thought, I'm the kind of person that 259 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: catches bees and spiders and takes them outside. We're having 260 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: an ant problem right now. I feel very guilty about 261 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: smashing the ants in my house. Me too. I do 262 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: eat meat, but I try to eat less meat, and 263 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: I try to get the meat that I eat from 264 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: farms where I know that the animals are treating kind. 265 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: I know there's some like contradiction in there, but man, 266 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: I just found the whole idea of like and then 267 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: we put this in there and sealed it up. I 268 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: was very upset. Like nobody was like, this is cruelty. Nobody, nobody, 269 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: not even for a second. Yeah, it's weird. But then 270 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: I presume I'm not trying to justify or explain or 271 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: excuse any of that. But I think if they genuinely 272 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: thought it was gonna live a hundred years to them, 273 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: it might not have seemed cruel. They're still wrong, but 274 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: I could see where they could justify it in their heads. 275 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: Is going, well, they go underground and they go to sleep, 276 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: and they go into this hibernation type state for months 277 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: at a time. Surely that's what will happen here. Yeah. Well, still, jerks, 278 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: don't do that to animals. Don't ask as a person 279 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: who has two pets who were found in a sealed box. No, no, 280 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: don't do that. Just don't do it. I mean it's 281 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: okay now they're very spoiled, but at the time very 282 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: scary littles. Don't do that makes me a real mad Yeah, 283 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: I uh. If we get to doctor Hornaday's biography, I'm 284 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: just gonna warn everybody now, it's awful. Yeah, it involves 285 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: a story that we all know. It's awful. It never 286 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: stops being awful. That's all I'm gonna say. Just racist 287 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: and awful, exactly what you expect. But on lighter news though, again, 288 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: please don't please don't put animals in sealboxes. Also, this 289 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: is my call to all listeners. I know some of 290 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: you have lizards as pets, and I want to see 291 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: the pictures because I love lizards, but I'm always I 292 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: would be too scared to keep one because I feel 293 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: like there's a delicacy to them. That I am scared 294 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: to mess up, you know what I mean, like in 295 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: terms of their heat needs, and they're understanding what they 296 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: need is a whole other job unto itself. And I 297 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: love them and think they're amazing, and I don't get 298 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: to spend enough time with them. So I would like 299 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: all the pictures you have, please thank sounds great, sounds great. 300 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: If you are headed into your weekend, we hope that 301 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,239 Speaker 1: you get to spend time with whatever animals delight you, 302 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: and that they are well treated and hugged and kissed 303 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: in the appropriate ways. If you don't get to have 304 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: time off this weekend and you have work or other responsibilities, 305 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: I hope those go smoothly. And maybe if you have 306 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: a pet, you get some time with it to you know, 307 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: rest and relax. They're very curative for people's mental states. Often. 308 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: I know I feel soothed when I can hold a 309 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: kittie for a little while. It makes everything better. So 310 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: do whatever it is that makes you feel better this 311 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: weekend and helps keep you buoyant and as you know, 312 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: happy and healthy as possible. We will be right back 313 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: here tomorrow with a classic episode, and then on Monday 314 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: you'll get another new piece of old history. Stuff you 315 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 1: missed in history class is a production of iHeartRadio. For 316 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 317 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.