1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: today we're going to be embarking on part one of 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: an exploration of nails. Not nails like you hit with 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: the hammer, though I guess you could hit him with 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: the hammer, though that would be really bad. I'm talking 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: about the kind of nails on the human body. And 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: I was thinking just the other day about how nails 10 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: are sort of the mascot for idleness, for human idleness, 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: because when humans are idle, what part of the body 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: is going to get the most attention? I think it's 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: almost always going to be the nail. Right, You're either 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: some people bite their nails. If you're not biting your nails, 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: you're often like looking at your nails and kind of 16 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: observing like oh, they're too long, or like, oh, there's 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: some kind of weird thing here. Perhaps this is idiosyncratics 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: psychology of mind, but but I think this is pretty common, right, Yeah. 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: I mean even if you're not even looking at them, 20 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: sometimes you just sort of feel them, like you're just 21 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: sort of feeling the edges of your nails and you know, 22 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: seem making sure everything's lined up there. For my own part, 23 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: I tend to find that I noticed him the most 24 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: when I am more in the more in the past. Really, 25 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: But if I was driving into work, I'd be stuck 26 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: in a light or something, and then I would notice 27 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: my nails and I would be and that's when I 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: would notice that I need to trim my nails. And 29 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: I would of course be in a position where I 30 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: really shouldn't be trimming my nails. Um. And then you know, 31 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: the rest of the time, I'm not really noticing them. 32 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 1: That's why the Good Lord made teeth. Well, yeah, we'll 33 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: get into that. Uh, that's not particularly my style, but 34 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people do it. My cat 35 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: is a big, big fan. I'm also not a nail biter, 36 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: but I there are people very close to me who are, 37 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: and I have observed the behavior for many years up 38 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: close and with a lot of thoughts about it. Yeah, 39 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: it's so much like our two episodes on Tomatoes last week. 40 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: This is gonna be a pair of episodes that that 41 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: that are going to get into some real weirdness. It's 42 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: and and so I urge you to stick with us, 43 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: even if you think, oh, fingernails, I have those. I 44 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: don't want to hear two episodes about it. But really, 45 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: I think I think you do. And I think a 46 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: great place to start would be just to just touch 47 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: on sort of the the obvious, weird aspects of our fingernails. 48 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this today because they're they're obviously living. 49 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: They are, you know, they're part of our body, and 50 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: yet they're not living in a way right there, like 51 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: these things these like little uh you know, almost like 52 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: like stones that come out of our our fingers, right, Yeah, Well, 53 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: I mean we think of ourselves as non clawed animals. 54 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: I think this is a pretty common intuitive grouping of 55 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: animals that people make, is like the kind with teeth 56 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: and claws and the kind without, And a lot of 57 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: them have teeth and claws because you got to it's 58 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: a hard world out there. But humans, you know, we've 59 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: got tools, and we've got social relationships and we've got 60 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: language and all that, so we don't really need claws, 61 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: but we kind of do, because we kind of do 62 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: have claws, and nails are not super formidable in a 63 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: claw sense, but they're kind of claw like. Yeah, I 64 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: was thinking about how they're define Our nails are definitely functional, 65 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: and we'll get into a lot of those functions as 66 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: we progress here. They do play a very real role 67 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: in our lives and yet on the same time, at 68 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: the same time, they're very ornamental, so that their condition 69 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: and their upkeep inevitably communicate something about ourselves to the world. 70 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: You know, um, we we can't help but think about 71 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: our own nails at times when we're encountering other people, 72 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: and like it or not, you're gonna notice other people's nails. 73 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: Are they Are they all done up? Are they bright 74 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: and colorful? Are they? Are they really making a statement? 75 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: Are they? Are they kind of grimy? Are they you know, 76 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: they're they spotted with paint? Did they show where? And tear? Like? 77 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: These are these are some of the things that are 78 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: nails communicate and and it's it's it's like if you're 79 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: having a bad hair day or your hair is weird 80 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you know, you can put on a 81 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: cap and that's in many circumstances, and you know you 82 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: can kind of get by. But a bad nail day 83 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: or bad bad nail days or months or what have you, 84 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: that's often kind of difficult to ignore, but on both sides, right, 85 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: I mean, you can wear gloves everywhere, but that's gonna 86 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: communicate something else entirely. You're gonna look like you're ready 87 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: to do some strangling a Bond villain or something, right, 88 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: or you know, there actually is another type of nail 89 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: that you didn't get to that has always stood out 90 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: in my mind ever since I saw this movie when 91 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: I was a little kid, Which are the cyborg nails 92 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,239 Speaker 1: in Paul Verehoven's Total Recall. Do you remember the lady 93 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: who has nails that she's like touching with the stylist 94 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: from her computer, And wouldn't they invent that? Yeah? And 95 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: for for the time being, we're just left with with paints, right, um. 96 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: And we'll get into the use of paints and other 97 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: ornamental techniques on our nails as well in these episodes, 98 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: because ultimately, yeah, these these nails that we have, um, 99 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: are kind of at this intersection of so many different 100 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: aspects of the human condition. And if you look close enough, 101 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: especially if you go far back into prehistory or or 102 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: look around the world at different cultural treatments of nails, Uh, 103 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: there's far more strangeness and magic and religious significance than 104 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: than people might expect, especially if you're just an American 105 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: who just kind of clips them into the trash can. 106 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: But maybe we should start with a quick look at 107 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: the anatomy of a nail. And now we're not going 108 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: to go super deep on this, but the simple version 109 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: is that you've got the hard part of the nail. 110 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: This plays to fingernails and to nails. The hard part 111 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: of the nail is known as the nail plate, and 112 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: the nail plate is made out of these compressed layers 113 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: of former epidermal skin cells that have been caratonized. Caratonized 114 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: as kind of it's your body doing two skin cells 115 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: what Medusa does to people who invade her garden of rocks. Uh, 116 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's filling the cells with keratin, which 117 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: is this tough, fibrous protective protein that makes up not 118 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: only the nails but also the hair and uh, and 119 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: keratin is found in living skin cells as well. And 120 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: then the keratinized cells in the nail plate make it 121 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: not only tough, but relatively flexible and translucent. And the 122 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: translucent quality of the nails is I think it's one 123 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: of the most interesting things about them. If you look close, 124 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: you can kind of see through it to the flesh underneath, 125 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: and then to the capillary blood flow under that. If 126 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: you look at it long enough, it might start to 127 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: get a little creepy. Yeah, because because there's the sense 128 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: that the nail is strong. We know the nail is 129 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: is strong, and yet the flesh that we see through 130 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: that nail window looks very you know, soft and delicate 131 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: and and and we all often know from experience that 132 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: it is very sensitive under there. Absolutely, it's sort of 133 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: like a window through your skin, but like a frosted 134 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: glass window, you know, not exactly a transparent, but translucent. 135 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: But so where does the nail plate come from. Well, 136 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: it comes from the nail matrix, which is found at 137 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: the base of the nail, and this is sort of 138 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: the cellular factory. It turns out new nail plate through 139 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: cell division over time, and as new cells form at 140 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: the base of the nail, it pushes the old nail 141 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: out from the root, which is why nails grow. Now, 142 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: it's interesting to note that there are nails are actually 143 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: composed of three layers of that fibrous composite keratin, and 144 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: and this is of course a fibrous protein like we 145 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: said it's found in hair and feathers and hoofs, claws 146 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: and horns. Uh. But I was looking a little deeper 147 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: into just the with the structural integrity of the nail, 148 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: and I read an article from back in two thousand 149 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: four that was published an Experimental Biology by fairn at 150 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: All in which the researchers quote examine the structure and 151 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: fracture properties of human fingernails to determine how they resist 152 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: bending forces while preventing fractors running longitudinally in the nail bed. 153 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: So we we've all cracked a nail before. I imagine 154 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: it's not a fingernail than a toe nail. That's a 155 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: quick thing for me. Yeah, um, and it's you know, 156 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: but you know it's it's a wonderful thing that we 157 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: tend to see far more latitudinal cracks uh than the opposite. 158 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: In other words, cracks tend to be more or less 159 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: parallel to the edge of the nail as opposed to 160 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: straight up the middle, which would obviously be far more traumatic. 161 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: Not to say it doesn't occur, but um, but generally 162 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: you're gonna have one that's going across the nail. So 163 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: that means that our nails are an isotropic, meaning the 164 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,119 Speaker 1: material has a different value when measured in different directions. 165 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: And this is much like wood, you know, which is 166 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: stronger along the grain, or like meat, you know, the 167 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: direction in which you slice a piece of meat makes 168 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: a difference in how tender it is. Uh. The same 169 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: thing would probably be true of your nails, right, Uh. 170 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what they ended up doing in this experiment, 171 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: like tested like cutting on nails, uh, not living the nails. 172 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: I believe they were. They were trimmings that they used 173 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: in the experiment. But basically there are long, narrow cells 174 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: in the thick intermediate layer, while tile like cells in 175 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: the thinner dorsal and ventral layers increase bending strength and 176 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: prevents cracking from forming. Well, that's very nice, and really 177 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: all this lines up with just the way that we 178 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: tend to use our nails, uh, scraping, prying, tweezing. If 179 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: you've ever tried to use your fingernails as a screwdriver, 180 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: you've hit up on some of the design limitations, but 181 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: also some of the flexibility of the nail. You'll find 182 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: that uh, yeah, if you're just pressing on something, if 183 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: you're trying to like dig something out of your own skin, 184 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: And you probably shouldn't do that, but if you are, 185 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: you'll find that you have a fair amount of you know, 186 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: um of pressure you can exert on that nail. Right, 187 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: But if you start trying to go side to side 188 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: with a with the head of a screw, you're gonna find, Oh, 189 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: it's not really rigid enough to turn the screw. But fortunately, 190 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: at the same time, um, it's not so brittle that 191 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: I just ripped my nail to pieces when I'm trying 192 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: and failing to do that. Oh. I've never thought to 193 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: put it into words like that, but you're absolutely right, 194 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: Like twisting pressure on the nail does not feel as 195 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: as comfortable and easy as regular like tweezing or pressing 196 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: pressure is. Yeah, I mean not to say you can't 197 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: turn a nail. I mean turn a screw a little 198 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: bit with your nail. But I think you'll find that 199 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: if when it gets to the nitty gritty of trying 200 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: to actually put some force into the rotation of the screw, 201 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: you're going to realize that you should probably stop what 202 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: you're doing and get an actual screwdriver. Now, there's a 203 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: very interesting contradiction a sort of psychological contradiction that comes 204 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: with the nails, which is that they're the parts of 205 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: our body that should be the toughest, you know, the 206 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: ones we would put out front as as defensive parts, 207 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: the teeth, the nails. There there are defense mechanism. But 208 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: one thing you've noticed if you if you ever tried 209 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: to trim a dog's toe nails, is that they generally 210 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: do not like this at all. They do not want 211 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: their toe nails to be messed with, even though it's 212 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: the hardest part of their body. You can mess around 213 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: with the soft parts of their body. They're usually fine 214 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: with it, but you start going in for the nails 215 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: and they get all squirmy and say, I want to 216 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: clatter around on the floor forever. Uh, And you will 217 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: not get a chance to do this. And there's actually 218 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: a similar kind of contradiction I think that goes on 219 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,599 Speaker 1: in human psychology because think about all of the horrifying 220 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: images that people You know, they occur in movies, of course, unfortunately, 221 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: sometimes they're practiced in reality, and they all probably just 222 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: occur to us naturally. When you imagine something bad happening 223 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: to your nails or your teeth, it's like a particular 224 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: kind of vulnerability obsession. Yeah, and and I should add, 225 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: if you don't want to hear about any of this, 226 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 1: you know, feel free to skip, like maybe you know, 227 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: ten fifteen, twenty seconds. But we're not gonna dwell on 228 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: this long or in great detail. But but yeah, it 229 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: should be noted that fingernail based torture goes back quite 230 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 1: a ways given the delicacy. And certainly there are a 231 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: lot of nerves in our fingers and the nail actually 232 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: makes our finger more sensitive, which is something that that 233 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about before, but this was pointed 234 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: out by Evan Writer, assistant professor in the Ronald O. 235 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: Pearlman Department of Dermatology, n y U langon health, quoted 236 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: in a Mental Floss article by Jordan Rosenfeld from two 237 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen. Yeah, the way I've read it put is 238 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: that the by providing a counter pressure to your fingertip, 239 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: it gives you special sensitivity in the skin cells in 240 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: your fingertip that wouldn't be there otherwise. Yeah, which is 241 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 1: something to keep in mind the next time you have 242 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: some sort of issue with your nails where you find 243 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: yourself asking that question, why do I have these What 244 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: is what good are these nails doing me when they're 245 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: causing me so much discomfort right now? UM I know, 246 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: for for my own part, I in the past had 247 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: ingrown toenails on both of my my big toes and 248 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: uh and had to have the thing where the the 249 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: the pediatrists goes in and like removes a section of 250 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: the toenail and kills the nail bed underneath it, um 251 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: to to prevent that kind of thing from happening. And 252 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: I kind of get the impression that this is not 253 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: all that uncommon because I have other friends who we 254 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: we've compared toes and we're like, oh, yeah, you had 255 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: the same thing done. Well, I'm sorry you had to 256 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: endure that, Robert. But I also do find it quite 257 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: amusing that you have you have toe parties with your friends. Well, 258 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: you know, I have to say that the procedure is 259 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: far preferable to an ingrown toenail. Uh. So if if 260 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: you uh, you know, if you're having issues like that, 261 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: and you should definitely try and get some some help 262 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: with it. That is not yourself toying around and trying 263 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: to perform some sort of amateur surgery on yourself in 264 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: the bathroom, because that's only going to result in more pain. Um. 265 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: Speaking of which, I have to admit that I did 266 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: not have the stomach to really dive into this topic 267 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: of of nail torture in depth. I know there's a book, 268 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: famous book by George Riley Scott, The History of Torture 269 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: throughout the Ages, and I skimmed that a little bit 270 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: and quickly realized that my eyes were a little bigger 271 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: than my stomach on that one. Um. But basically you 272 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: have a lot of accounts of de nailing in there, 273 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: either by just pulling the nails out or by first 274 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: using the insertion of a red hot nail beneath the 275 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: fingernail is a precursor to de nailing. George Riley Scott, 276 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: by the way, also wrote a history of prostitution in 277 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century that I understand was one of 278 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: one of, if not the first histories of prostitution that 279 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: was not like, it was not coming from a super 280 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: judgmental standpoint, like a moralizing standpoint. Uh. Well, that's interesting. 281 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: So we're done with the nail torture that others inflict 282 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: on us, I think at this point. But let's come 283 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: back to that other form of sort of nail punishment 284 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: that we sometimes do it to ourselves nail biting. Oh yeah, So, 285 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: as I said before, I am not a habitual nail biter, 286 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: but I have observed a bunch of it up close 287 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: over the years, and so I don't know, I've I've 288 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: sort of like mused on it for a long time. 289 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: So habitual nail biting is known clinically as on ecophagia, 290 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: and and studies have found somewhere between maybe twenty to 291 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: thirty percent of people in total do it, though it 292 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: varies a lot by age. UM. So the twenty to 293 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: thirty percent figure comes from a study published in twenty 294 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: seventeen and the Journal of Dermatological Treatment by Pierre Halte 295 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: at All. But according to some sources, nail biding peaks 296 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: in early years, especially in teenage years, with some estimates 297 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: as high as forty five percent of teenagers doing it regularly, 298 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: which sounds very high. But then again, I guess I 299 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: don't know what teenagers do. I do have to come 300 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: back to um the name of the habitual nail biding though, 301 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: because the uh, the actual meaning of that is is 302 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: the eating of of fingernails, right, I mean it, which 303 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: is not actually what's going on right, at least not 304 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: in most cases. I don't know, maybe who knows what 305 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: some people swallow, but yeah, phagia, that's you know, that's 306 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: used in the terms for the eating of all kinds 307 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: of things. Into phagia is the eating of insects and 308 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: so forth, copper phage. We don't need to get into 309 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: hog eating of hogs, of great sandwiches. But even if 310 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: you're not swallowing the nails own, acophagia can have a 311 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: lot of negative consequences. For one thing, that your nails 312 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: are very dirty. They are sort of a hot spot 313 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: for bacteria on your body, and uh, and so I 314 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: was reading several articles about this. One thing I was 315 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,359 Speaker 1: reading was an article in The Verge by Alessandra Potenza, 316 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: and the author here pointed out that nail biding can 317 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: also have dental consequences. So she pointed to some dental 318 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: health blogs that I was looking at. Several of these 319 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: had dentists citing an estimate from the Academy of General 320 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: Dentistry that quote, nail biding can result in up to 321 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: four thousand dollars in additional dental bills over one lifetime 322 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: because there are a number of reasons. But apparently it's 323 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: not good for your teeth to be chewing too much 324 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: in any case, and it's especially not good to be 325 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: always putting chewing pressure down with your front teeth. I mean, 326 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: you think about it, that's not normally how you chew. Normally, 327 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: you chew kind of like with the pressing of your 328 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: back teeth, But when you're biting with your nails, you're 329 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: kind of aligning your jaw in a strange way to 330 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 1: bring your front teeth together and turn them into clippers. 331 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: But beyond that, there's also just the the exchange of 332 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: bacteria from one place to the other and it and 333 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: it actually does go both ways. So you're getting bacteria 334 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: from under your fingernails and your fingertips into your mouth, 335 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: but you're also getting bacteria from your mouth under your fingernails, 336 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: which can cause infections there. And apparently it can be 337 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: bad both ways. Yeah, so there's really no upside to 338 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: doing it. Um, obviously just stopping is easier said than done. 339 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: But but but yeah, from from a purely health standpoint, um, 340 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: it's best to stay away from it. But that leads 341 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: to the interesting question of why we bite our nails 342 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: in the first place, and why some people, especially in 343 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: engage in oh nicophagia like the the habitual repetitive biting 344 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: of the nails. I was reading an interesting article about 345 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: this in Fox by the science writer Joseph Stromberg, and 346 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: so he cites that there were several early theories on 347 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: nail biting, of course, before we had modern psychology. One 348 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: of course was Freud, and Freud grouped nail biting as 349 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: one of the obsessions that fell under the oral receptive personality. 350 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: And in Freudian theory, the idea was that if a 351 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: if a child nursed too much during infancy, they would 352 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: grow up to have this oral fixation, the oral receptive fixation, 353 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: which caused them to always like chew on their nails 354 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: and like put objects in their mouth. You know, the 355 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: kind of people who are always like putting a stick 356 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: in their mouth or something. But again, you know, this 357 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: is Freudian is um. There's no real evidence for this, 358 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,239 Speaker 1: and as far as I could tell, there's never been 359 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: any evidence that's turned up that there's any connection whatsoever 360 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: between nursing in early childhood and and so called oral fixations. 361 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: Did seems to be another one of those things that 362 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: you know, Freud kind of said it, but there's no 363 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: reason to believe it's true unless you're one of those 364 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: people that has one of those bumper stickers that says 365 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: Freud said it, I believe it. That settled it. Now. 366 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: More recently, nail biting has been listed in the d 367 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: s M as a form of o c D of 368 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: obsessive compulsive disorder, but not all experts agreed that this 369 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: is the best categorization for it, as not all forms 370 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: of nail biting or universally considered really obsessive um. And 371 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: so another theory has emerged that nail biting is sort 372 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: of a form of emotion regulation. Just one example of 373 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: this is a study from published in the Journal of 374 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 1: Behavior Therapy and Experimental Psychiatry by Sarah Roberts at All 375 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: called the Impact of Emotions on Body focused Repetitive Behaviors 376 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: Evidence from a non treatment seeking sample. And this is 377 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: a whole class of behaviors that body focused repetitive behaviors 378 00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: that can involve nail biting, hair pulling, you know, various 379 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: things that were sort of often grooming related, skin picking, 380 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And so in this study they 381 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: tested people in several different kinds of scenarios that we're 382 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: trying to elicit certain emotional reactions. One was a frustration situation, 383 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: in which subjects would be given a difficult job to 384 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: do that that could not possibly be done in the 385 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: time they were given to do it. Um. Another one 386 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: was a boredom scenario where people were left in a 387 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: room with nothing to do. Another one was an anxiety 388 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: scenario where they were asked to watch an extremely terrifying 389 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: movie scene. I think it was a plane crash scene 390 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: from the movie Alive. I've never seen it. Is that 391 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: the one where the soccer players give resort to cannibalism? Yeah, 392 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: that's the one based on true occurrences, But but certainly 393 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: is notable for having just a very terrifying and at 394 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: least at the time, very convincing airplane crash scene. I'm 395 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 1: not sure how it holds up today, but I imagine 396 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: it holds up pretty well. And then finally, there was 397 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: a relaxation condition where they're watching a video. They're sitting 398 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: in a nice comfy chair and they're watching video of 399 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: a pleasant beach scene. That's nice too. I like that 400 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: movie a lot. What makes you wonder I kind of 401 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: want to see the video, Like, how exactly relaxing is 402 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: the speech? What if you're looking at the beach and 403 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: thinking like, Ooh, I don't know, sharks. Yeah, I guess 404 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: you could, um it certainly remind there are these wonderful 405 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: videos called moving Art that you can find on I 406 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: think they're on Netflix, and they're basically that kind of vibe, 407 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: like really soothing ambient music. Um and then these just 408 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: beautiful scenes of things like beaches or mountains and sometimes 409 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: wildlife depending on what the theme of the episode is. 410 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: But it's some great nap timefair Oh nice. Uh well 411 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 1: so anyway, so the results of the study were basically 412 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: that observed behaviors in reported desire to bite the nails 413 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 1: and engage in these repetitive body focused behaviors. It singled 414 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: out to sit stuations especially which were stress and boredom 415 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: and uh. In Stromberg's article, he quotes Fred Penzel, who's 416 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: a psychologist who helps patients who deal with nail biting, 417 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: and Penzel says of people in these conditions, quote, when 418 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: they're under stimulated, the behavior provides stimulation, and when they're 419 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: over stimulated, it actually helps them calm down and he 420 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: compares it to nicotine actually, with the idea that the 421 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: nicotine and cigarettes can sort of be a stimulant when 422 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: you are under stimulated, and it can be a relaxant 423 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: when you are over stimulated. Uh So, another question is 424 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: how do you quit if you if you're a nail 425 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: biter and you want to stop. I've read several ideas. 426 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: One of course, is just trying to replace nail biting 427 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: with an incompatible alternative activity. So in situations where you 428 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: might find yourself biting your nails, have something that you're 429 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: doing with your hands that you know you can't bite 430 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 1: your nails at the same time, or alternately, I've read 431 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: people say, hey, just work of or put tape over 432 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: the ends of your fingers. There's even there are even 433 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: companies that make especially tailored, nasty tasting, clear nail polish 434 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: so that if you put your fingers in your mouth, 435 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: that is disgusting. All right, on that note, we're going 436 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: to take a quick break, but we'll be right back. 437 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: Thank Alright, we're back. So we're talking about nails. And 438 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: one question that I find myself thinking about when when 439 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: sometimes I'm bored or idle and I start staring at 440 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: my own nails is how fast exactly do these suckers grow? Well, 441 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: there is an answer to this, and it varies from 442 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 1: not not only from person to person, but throughout a 443 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: person's lifetime. But an average figure that's often cited is 444 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: that fingernails tend to grow about zero point one millimeters 445 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: per day one tenth of a millimeter per day. So 446 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: at this rate, if you wanted to grow nails as 447 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: long as a six meter saltwater crocodile, it would take 448 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 1: about sixty thousand days or about a hundred and sixty 449 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: four years. But unfortunately, even if you could live that long, 450 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: your nails would probably not keep growing at such a 451 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: dependable rate indefinitely. And one of the great studies in 452 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: the history of fingernail research is actually uh something that 453 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: contributes to our understanding of this fact. And it's something 454 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: that's also in the spirit of Albert Hofman with LSD 455 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: or Barry Marshall, the guy who put a Helicobacter pylori 456 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 1: in his in his stomach to prove that it was 457 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: the cause of ulcers rather than say stress or acidic 458 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: foods uh it. It is a bold act of self experimentation, 459 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: and I will say, an astonishing feat of commitment over time. 460 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: And this is the story of a doctor named William Bean. 461 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: Oh all right, so, Dr William B. Bean was a 462 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 1: physician in a medical historian who lived from nineteen o 463 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: nine to nineteen eighty nine, and he taught medicine at 464 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: the University of Iowa College of Medicine and the University 465 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 1: of Texas in Galveston. In a into his medical practice 466 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: and his teaching and his research, William Bean was a 467 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: prolific writer, and I think it's worth saying that he 468 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: was also an unusually good writer. An example that I 469 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: saw pointed out in a paper on Bean's life was 470 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: a passage that I'm about to read, which which he 471 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: wrote simply praising the virtues of books for the dedication 472 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: of a library. And I just thought this was so lovely. So, Robert, 473 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: do you mind if I read this here? Bean wrote, 474 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: Books remind us of friendship. They lead us to equanimity 475 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: and peace, at least peace of mind. They help us 476 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: maintain our individuality without the austere and crushing loneliness of 477 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: those who love only themselves. The wisdom we gain from 478 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: books leads us to act as though we were building 479 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: our ideas for eternity, mindful that the nature of life 480 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,959 Speaker 1: and death are so ordered that we and our works 481 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: are fleeting and falling grains of sand in the hour 482 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: glass of time. If we can avoid the apathy of 483 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: those who claim to know that nothing matters, and the 484 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: sheer folly of those who know that they personally matter immensely, 485 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: we shall have been worthy successors to that silent company 486 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: of physicians, our medical forebears, whose spirits watch over us here. 487 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: Through the careful and scholarly making and the wise use 488 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: of books and libraries, they build our great tradition. By 489 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: following them, we must add to it, as physicians, wise 490 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: and humble in the care, the comfort, and sometimes in 491 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: the cure of our fellows, in their sickness and in 492 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: their sorrow. Oh, that is beautiful. And he actually brings 493 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: some of this uh, some of this thoughtful writing spirit 494 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: to his scientific papers. So this really remarkable self experiment 495 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: that William being carried out is revealed by the title 496 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: of a paper that he published in nineteen eighty and 497 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: the Archives of Internal Medicine called Nail Growth thirty five 498 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: years of observation. That is dedication. And yes, so that 499 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: is correct, You are understanding the title correctly. There William 500 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: Being meticulously tracked the rate of his own nail growth 501 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: for thirty five years, beginning sometime in the early nineteen forties, 502 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: I think even as earliest nineteen forty one, and he 503 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: published his findings in a series of scientific articles, the 504 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: first of which appeared in nineteen fifty three and all 505 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: the way up until nineteen eighty. I think the one 506 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty was the last one. So thinking about 507 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: this problem, I immediately would have a question, which is, 508 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: how exactly do you track how much your nails grow? Right? Like, 509 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: you can look at your nail and I don't know, 510 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: it looks this long today. But uh like if if 511 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: you clip them eventually or if something comes off of them, 512 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: how do you know how much it has grown? Yeah? 513 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: I know when when when you brought up this study, Like, 514 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: the first thing that comes to mind is some is 515 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: like a bearded professor type who has one hand that 516 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: has those big, long spiral fingernails up. No, he didn't 517 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: do that, uh he know, but he did find an 518 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: interesting way. Being actually explains in this paper that there 519 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: are a number of ways to track the growth of 520 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 1: your nails. Uh and this is his method quote. I 521 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: make an indentation with the little file commonly employed to 522 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: open small glass vials. On the first day of each month. 523 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: I file a transverse groove just at the edge of 524 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: the free margin of the cuticle, being careful not to 525 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: push it back or interfere with it. Within a week 526 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: or two after marking the nail, the end is recorded 527 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: when the mark has just reached the free margin of 528 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: the nail exactly one point four or five centimeters from 529 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: the start. Early in my observations, I measured nail clippings 530 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: by linear growth than by weight. With careful calculations, I 531 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: found that anywhere from to more than fifty percent of 532 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: the nail had been used up by unnoticed attrition. Not 533 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: only does the length of the nail wear away, but 534 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: the dorsal surface also wears down. If a fingernail is 535 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: trimmed with scissors and not filed, sharp angles can be felt. 536 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: Since scissors simply takes away bites without filing, these sharp 537 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: points disappear in a day or two from unnoticed wear 538 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: and tear. Uh And I found this very interesting. So, 539 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: even apart from clipping being observes that somewhere between a 540 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: quarter and a half of the mass of the nail 541 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: just vanishes over time through regular wear and tear. Yeah, 542 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: it's it's we we easily take these these tools that 543 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: are fingernails for granted, because we use them all the 544 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: time to varying degrees to interact with the world around us. 545 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: But they are self replenishing, you know, unlike the various 546 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: real tools we use on the on the on natural materials. Uh, 547 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: those we inevitably have to replace as they wear out. Yeah, 548 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: it absolutely makes logical sense, but it's it's just hard 549 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: to square that with my experience because I feel like 550 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: I never notice my my fingernails just being were in 551 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: a way, but obviously it happens a lot. Yeah. I 552 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: mean it's like, like you say, if nothing else, you'll 553 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: notice that that the sharp edge will go away, Um, 554 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: you know, pretty quickly on its own, even if you 555 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: don't file them. Isn't that interesting? Yeah? Uh? And I 556 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: also want to note Bean's dedication to accuracy and control, 557 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: since he notes that at one point to make sure 558 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: that the cuticle itself was not advancing or receding unnoticed 559 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: of course, because you know, if the cuticle was moving, 560 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: that would change how his measurements were happening with the 561 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: with the file in the nail plate. Uh. Just to 562 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: make sure the cuticle wasn't moving, Being made a tattoo 563 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: in his thumbnail to use as a benchmark. What a 564 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: little more on his on his method. This is a 565 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: quote from an earlier paper by Being, which was reproduced 566 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: in a Discover magazine article on him. I was reading 567 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 1: so being wrights quote. When I first began to measure 568 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: the rate of nail growth, I scored marks on all 569 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: my nails. Within a few months, I found that each 570 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: nail had its own pace. This was clearly distinguishable, even 571 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: by the rather crude method that I used. Some nails 572 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: grew rapidly, some in an intermediate phase, less rapidly, and 573 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: some slowly. The differences were small, but regular. There was 574 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: consistency in the variation. So if I applied a ratio, 575 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: I could tell by measuring one nail what the others 576 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: were doing. And this I did on several occasions. In 577 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: simple terms, toenails grew more slowly than nails of the hand, 578 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: and the nail of the middle finger grows more rapidly 579 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: than the nails of either the thumb or the little finger. 580 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: Or the other two middle fingers interact. So the middle 581 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: finger is the one that he found to uh to 582 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: grow the fastest. Yes, and this is a finding that 583 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: has been reproduced in other studies that I'll mention in 584 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: a minute. It is surprisingly interesting. Yeah, I would have 585 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: guessed the index finger just thinking about like the way 586 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 1: that I interact with things with my finger. Now, I 587 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: would think, well, that's the one you're most likely. You know, 588 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: you see some sort of strange film on a window 589 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: or something, you need to scratch at it, You're going 590 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: to use your index surely. Uh So that's that's that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, 591 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: it is um And we'll get to possible explanations for 592 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: this difference in in just a bit here, but I 593 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: want to read being summary of his paper from from night. 594 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: He says, quote, a thirty five year observation of the 595 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: growth of my nails indicates the slowing of growth with 596 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: increasing age. The average daily growth of the left thumbnail, 597 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: for instance, has varied from zero point one twenty three 598 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: millimeters a day during the first part of the study 599 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: when I was thirty two years of age, to zero 600 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: point zero nine five millimeters a day at the age 601 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: of sixty seven and uh, and pursuing that line of 602 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: thought a little further, he actually does get strangely thoughtful 603 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: and melancholy about it, or maybe not melancholy, at least 604 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: there there's a kind of haunting and beautiful passage, or 605 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: at least unusually so for a medical journal paper. And 606 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: so this is my last quote from and he writes. 607 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: The kind of pleasure and understanding that I get from 608 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: studying natural history has long vanished from most contemporary teaching 609 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: institutions that have become part of intensive care units, which 610 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: are supposed to save the residual intellectual machinery of medical students. 611 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: The teeming mass of hope and pain, technical virtuosity, and 612 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: depersonalization called a health center delivers packets of what is 613 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: termed medical care. The capacity to look remains, but the 614 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: capacity to see has all but vanished. Teachers and students 615 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: forget that the ability to palpate is not the same 616 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: as the ability to feel. As a gentle countercurrent, I 617 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: set forth here this most recent five year installment of 618 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: the observations of the growth of my left thumbnail. It 619 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: is a very long record of the growth of human 620 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: deciduous tissue. Its duration has little precedent in clinical medicine 621 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: or human natural history. Still, the nail provides a slowly 622 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: moving keratin chimograph that measures age on the inexorable absissa 623 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: of time. So there's something actually strangely profound going on here, 624 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: which is by meticulously measuring the slowing of the growth 625 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: of his fingernails over time, he's actually watching his body 626 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: become less cellularly productive every single year as the circulation 627 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: slows down. As that's one probable, at least partial explanation 628 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: for it. As the body grows older, it becomes less 629 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: efficient at producing new cells. Uh, the fingernail growth just 630 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: slows and slows, and he's measuring it in such minute 631 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 1: detail that he can see it happen month by month 632 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: as the body says, all right, we are we're going 633 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: to slow down on nail production, but we're all in 634 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 1: on ear hair. My god, I would love to read 635 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: a William Bean study on his ear hair. I think 636 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: it would be so lovely. All right, So that was 637 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, But we're gonna take a quick break. But 638 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: when we come back, we're going to consider what more 639 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: recent research has had to say about nails, and then 640 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: we'll get into some other nail related topics before we 641 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: close out this first episode on on on the subject. 642 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Alright, we're back, all right. So 643 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: in the last section we talked about the research of 644 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: a doctor named William Bean who very carefully studied the 645 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: rate of his own nail growth for thirty five years, 646 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: and he published that study in nineteen eighty. But I 647 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: was looking for more recent stuff about the rate of 648 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: nail growth, and there was a New York Times Q 649 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: and A from eleven that addresses this by c Claiborne 650 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: Ray and uh. The The author here interviews Jeffrey S. Dover, 651 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: an Associate clinical professor of dermatology at the Yale School 652 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: of Medicine, who reports the following. So, first of all, 653 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: we still don't know all of the factors that influenced 654 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: the rate of nail growth, but it's generally accepted that 655 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: fingernails grow about three times as fast as to nails. Robert, 656 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: does this square with your experience? I don't know if 657 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: it squares with mine. I mean, I don't doubt their findings. 658 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: But prior to either but but but if you but 659 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: but but prior to this, hey, have you had quiz 660 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: me on this, I would have guessed that the rate 661 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: was more or less the same. I feel like you know, 662 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: just from when it is by observing my nail growth. 663 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: When it is time to trim my fingernails, it's probably 664 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: time to trim my toenails. Though, now now that I 665 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: think about it, maybe fingernails do seem to require trimming 666 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: a little more frequently. But I would don't know. I 667 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: would have guessed at this particular rate that it would 668 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 1: be three times as fast as toenails. Yeah, I don't 669 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,799 Speaker 1: think I would have naturally come to this conclusion either, 670 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: but this seems to be a pretty consistent finding. Fingernails 671 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: grow a lot faster, and three times the rate does 672 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: seem to be the average of the findings. Um uh. 673 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: They also, of course, they confirm what William being discovered, 674 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: which is that nails tend to grow more slowly as 675 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: you get older. And uh, let's see. And then speaking 676 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: to Bruce Robinson, a clinical instructor of dermatology at Lennox 677 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: Hill and Mount Sinai Hospitals in Manhattan, fingernail growth apparently 678 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: peaks in your teens and your twenties and then declines afterwards, 679 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: and then there's another very strange fact, handedness, as in 680 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: left handed or right handed, appears to affect the rate 681 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: of fingernail growth. So if you're left handed, the nails 682 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: on your left hand will tend to grow a bit faster, 683 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: and vice versa. And the rate also tends to increase 684 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: in summer and decrease in winter. And it tends to 685 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: be a little bit faster in men than in women, 686 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: and tends to be a little bit faster in women 687 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: during pregnancy. Well, I mean, on the handedness side of that, Uh, 688 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: it would certainly be meeting the demand because you'd be 689 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: more likely to to use that hand for you know, 690 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: scratching at things, manipulating things with your fingernails and therefore 691 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: wearing them down. Yeah, but I mean it makes you wonder, like, 692 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: what's the mechanism There is there some genetic kind of 693 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: coding for handedness that says, okay, I know you know. 694 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: Do your genes say okay, I know that you're left handed, 695 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: so let's make the nails on the left hand grow faster. 696 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: Or is there something else at work? Is it more 697 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: kind of an adaptation to use of the hand, And 698 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: so as an illustration of the explanation of this question. Uh, 699 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: there there was a study that I came across because 700 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: I saw a reference to it in a Wired article 701 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: by Nick Stockton. But the study was by this British 702 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 1: dermatologist named Rodney Dauber who worked at Churchill Hospital in Oxford, 703 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: and I think he sometimes lectured in dermatology at Oxford 704 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: University as well. I couldn't actually find if Dauber is 705 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: still alive, so I'm not sure, but I hope he is. 706 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: But so, around the year nineteen eighty or eighty one, 707 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: Dauber suffered what he described as quote a mallet finger 708 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 1: deformity of the left ring finger whilst playing rugby, and 709 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: so basically this means his finger got jammed. This usually 710 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: happens when something strikes you hard on the fingertip and 711 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: it bends the finger by force, and in doing so 712 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,320 Speaker 1: damages the tendon that you normally used to straighten your finger. 713 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: I've read that this can also be called baseball finger, 714 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: but that that I don't know that sounds like that 715 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,439 Speaker 1: should mean something else, like the tip of your finger 716 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 1: is swelling to baseball size. But with this injury, Dauber 717 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: saw an opportunity to test a theory about why the 718 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: fingernails grow at different rates, and he so so in 719 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: the spirit of William Bean. Also he performed this experiment 720 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: on himself and he published the results in Clinical and 721 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: Experimental Dermatology in nineteen eighty one. Study was called the 722 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: Effect of Immobilization on Fingernail Growth. So Dauber notes that 723 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: there had been some other theories to explain the observed 724 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: difference in nail growth, and some of these differences where, 725 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: for example, the nails on our longest fingers tend to 726 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: grow the fastest. So remember we mentioned earlier beans finding 727 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: that the middle finger has the fastest growing nail, and 728 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: so maybe this is an evolutionary adaptation. Since the middle 729 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: finger is usually a person's longest finger and likely to 730 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: be the first one to come into contact with an 731 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: object if you just sort of extend your whole hand, 732 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,760 Speaker 1: maybe we have a genetic predisposition to have a fast 733 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: growing middle fingernail, and so maybe the differential growth is 734 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: programmed in the genetic level. Another explanation was possibly people 735 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: whose fingers are immobilized due to hemi parisis or neuropathy 736 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: tend to show decreased fingernail growth as well, and so 737 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: perhaps the lack of nerve supply slows the growth of 738 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: the fingernail. But finally, there was another theory which is 739 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: known as terminal trauma, which I should have checked to 740 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: see if they ever made that into like a uh, 741 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: Michael Doodakov movie or something. But but the the terminal 742 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: trauma theory is that the nail as on some fingers 743 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: grow faster because those fingertips are used more often. And 744 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 1: under this idea, the more fingertip encounters pressure or damage, 745 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: the faster it's nail grows. And this theory would be 746 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: consistent with with observations by a Legro, Clark, and Buckston 747 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,800 Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties that both nail biters and manual 748 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: workers have more rapid nail growth. So yeah, that's a finding. 749 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: If you bite your nails or if you tend to 750 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: do you know, hard work with your hands, your nails 751 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: grow faster than in people who don't do these things. Interesting, 752 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:40,880 Speaker 1: so just supply meeting demand exactly. So Daubert decided to 753 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: test this by comparing the growth of the nails on 754 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: both of his ring fingers, both while his finger was 755 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: splinted to help it heal from the rugby jam and 756 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: while it was unsplinted and in normal use, and his 757 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 1: results supported the terminal trauma theory. In general, the nails 758 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: on his left hand grew slower than on his right hand, 759 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,760 Speaker 1: but the left ring finger, which was in the splint 760 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: that nail grew even more slowly while it was splinted 761 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: and thus immobilized, and once he could use his finger again, 762 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: the nail grew faster. An also interesting note in general 763 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,240 Speaker 1: the so if you're if you're right handed, the left 764 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: hand nails tend to grow more slowly than than your 765 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: right hand. But no matter how your handedness breaks down, 766 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: toe nails tend to grow at the same speed on 767 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: the left and right. So this might be a result 768 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: of handedness being more important for you know, what you 769 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: do with your limbs than footedness. Now, something that comes 770 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: to mind on that point, and this would this would 771 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: have to be something. This would actually be a kind 772 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: of topic that I would I would love to look 773 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: at in the future, is what what affects shoes have 774 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: on this because because of course we so many of 775 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: us wear shoes, of great number of us and certainly 776 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,239 Speaker 1: I think individuals more likely to be heading up or 777 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: participating in study of this sword. And we know from 778 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,800 Speaker 1: the shoes change like the shape of our foot. You 779 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,760 Speaker 1: know that these are these are not natural um sheaths 780 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: that we're putting our our feet into. And I wonder 781 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: if if our shoes would be serving to apply more 782 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: of a constant and sustained pressure on the nails. Um, 783 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's kind of an open question for me. Well, yeah, 784 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: I wonder I wondered about exactly that kind of thing. 785 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: So why did the toenails grow slower than the fingernails? 786 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 1: I wonder if that is natural among all people, no 787 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: matter what you do with your feet, or if that 788 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: is more an artifact of shoe wearing. Like I wonder 789 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 1: if if you run around barefoot a lot or often 790 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 1: like kicking at things with your toes, would your toenails 791 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: grow faster? Right? Yeah, that's another good point. Yeah, Like 792 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,240 Speaker 1: because like I guess I think of like the beach 793 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: person who is going out barefoot in a lot. Like 794 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,839 Speaker 1: on one hand, you're not going to have the end 795 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: of your shoe um pushing against your toe nails or 796 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 1: restraining your feet, but perhaps you're you're more likely to 797 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: you know, to scratch around it things to use your 798 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: toenails in a way that is more in keeping with uh, 799 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: their their evolved purpose. I guess yeah, I didn't find 800 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: any evidence of whether anybody has studied this question, but 801 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,479 Speaker 1: if you are a toenail fingernail researcher out there, maybe 802 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,399 Speaker 1: look into this. Does being a barefoot person make the difference? Yeah, 803 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 1: but anyway to summarize it, so, I think it looks 804 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,880 Speaker 1: like there's pretty good evidence that when fingertips are put 805 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: to more work by touching things doing you know, just 806 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: generally manipulating objects, putting pressure on the fingertips wear and tear, 807 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: the nails grow faster. And this could explain part of 808 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: the difference in growth made by handedness and the differences 809 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: that are observed based on what we do with our hands, 810 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: such as if you're a manual worker. But that brings 811 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: us to I guess the last thing I wanted to 812 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: talk about before we have to wrap up this first episode, um, 813 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,399 Speaker 1: which is coming back to the idea of humans as 814 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 1: a non clawed animal. Of course, you know, so we 815 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: we think about animals like big cats that have powerful 816 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: teeth and claws, hard parts anchored in the bodies for 817 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: tearing the flesh. The flesh of other animals. And in contrast, 818 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: humans don't have claws, so we have tools. We have 819 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: a claw like hard tool power at our fingertips. But 820 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,720 Speaker 1: in a way, nails are still sort of like claws, 821 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,600 Speaker 1: even if in diminished form. And what seems to be 822 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: definitely true is that nails evolved from organs that were 823 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: very claw like. Yeah, yeah, certainly when we looked at 824 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:40,719 Speaker 1: to other primates, we see, uh, we we see true 825 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: claws and things more like like true claws versus our 826 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: own fingernails, which are still useful. Again, Uh, these are 827 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: very useful to scratch, to scrape, and and and I 828 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,239 Speaker 1: think a lot of us find this to be the case. 829 00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: To manipulate very small objects, uh, which you know, which 830 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: of course is is very much the domain of of 831 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: of of human engineus. You know, even even those of 832 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 1: us who will have we're fortunate enough or or just 833 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,440 Speaker 1: through the luck of our lives, are not doing a 834 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: lot of like like like intensive labor. You're still gonna 835 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: have to pick up a pin off of the floor 836 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,360 Speaker 1: at some point, right, You're still gonna have to occasionally 837 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,959 Speaker 1: engage in that kind of uh, you know, a fine 838 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: manipulation of small things and for that our nails are 839 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: are are perfect. Oh yeah, I mean I would say 840 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 1: probably the characteristic motor activities of human beings compared to 841 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: other animals. One is what you do with your with 842 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: your like throat and your mouth is language, of course, 843 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,279 Speaker 1: and the other is fine motor movements with the fingertips. Right. 844 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,399 Speaker 1: But of course we do have tools that that stand 845 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 1: in for a lot of these other uses. So we 846 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: don't need a great big old uh, you know, velociraptor 847 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: type talent or anything, because we have other tools that 848 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: can stand in for that, that sort of claw and uh. 849 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 1: And so this is a thought by many data to 850 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,359 Speaker 1: to play a role in the changing shape of our 851 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: fingers over a human evolution. Um. So basically, our our 852 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 1: primate ancestors had something more like true Claus and it's 853 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: and we have the stunted, flattened versions of Clause. And 854 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: the reason here maybe because some two point five million 855 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 1: years ago, you know, or or more, we started using tools, 856 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 1: and two things impacted the shape of our fingers and nails. 857 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 1: First of all, curved nails would have increasingly gotten in 858 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 1: the way of tool manipulation. And then secondly, broader fingertips 859 00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:37,640 Speaker 1: allowed us to better grip uh stone tools. Oh, I see. Okay, 860 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: So if you have more of a claw at your fingertip, 861 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,000 Speaker 1: it makes more sense for your finger to narrow more 862 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 1: taper towards the end, Whereas if you don't have a 863 00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: claw at the end, it makes more sense to have 864 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: a flatter, broader finger tip that can probably more easily 865 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,759 Speaker 1: close around an object and keep it steady. Yeah. I mean, 866 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,840 Speaker 1: think of some of our clawed humanoid icons, uh, the 867 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: of Edwards as their hands or Freddy Krueger, or you know, 868 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: various sort of humanoid monsters that have long, tapering fingernails. 869 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 1: You might sometimes wonder, well, all right, well, those claws 870 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:12,680 Speaker 1: are great if your trim and hedges there, or or 871 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,320 Speaker 1: you know, harassing teenagers in their dreams. But what do 872 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: you do when you need to manipulate another tool? Uh, 873 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna kind of be uh you know, um up 874 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: the creek in that regard. Pumpkinhead can't play tennis. Yeah, 875 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: and then here's another interesting thing to think about, Um, 876 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,839 Speaker 1: what about what what about? Yeah? Okay, obviously Edwards says 877 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,959 Speaker 1: their hands, Freddy Krueger, you know they have those impressive nails. 878 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,480 Speaker 1: If they get in the fight. But could they throw 879 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,280 Speaker 1: a punch? Could Freddie Krueger throw a punch? How about 880 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: these various like a lizard man creatures that show up 881 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,839 Speaker 1: in all the manner of sci fi and fantasy. Uh, 882 00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,160 Speaker 1: they just always have to slash and bite, right, I 883 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: mean they couldn't because when you have a clause you're 884 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,720 Speaker 1: not You're gonna probably gonna have a difficulty forming a fist. 885 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,279 Speaker 1: So we know that that tool you seem to have 886 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,160 Speaker 1: played a role in the evolution and form of our hand. 887 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,319 Speaker 1: And there have also been some interesting studies that look 888 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,480 Speaker 1: at how the ability to to to form a fist 889 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,040 Speaker 1: uh and essentially throw a punch may have played a 890 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,759 Speaker 1: role in the form of our hand as well. Oh yeah, 891 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,920 Speaker 1: that's an interesting hypothesis though, I mean I wonder, um, 892 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 1: I can wonder about the idea of of punching as 893 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,120 Speaker 1: an adaptation just because it's so often results in the 894 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 1: injury of one's own hand when you do it right. Well, 895 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,080 Speaker 1: that is that is something that these studies have looked into, 896 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,200 Speaker 1: and we have some path They may be many years 897 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 1: old at this point, but I remember that was one 898 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,600 Speaker 1: of the factors that was considered, Like that sweet point 899 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: um in the in the formation of the hand where 900 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: it can both potentially form a fist and land a 901 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: punch while also maintaining its integrity without damaging the thing 902 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 1: that you need for tool manipulation. So it's doing a 903 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,799 Speaker 1: kind of a delicate balance there. But but this will 904 00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 1: led to an interesting question that I've often had, uh an, 905 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:04,680 Speaker 1: and that is, are sharpened nails useful in a in 906 00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: say a stand up fight? Would they be an advantage? 907 00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:12,480 Speaker 1: Uh in a fight? And um, this is one of 908 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,920 Speaker 1: these things It's kind of been like an idle speculation before. 909 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,960 Speaker 1: I remember I remember seeing like a music video or 910 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: a poster or Glenn Danzig, uh, the rock musician has 911 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: um like sharpened fingernails, and and trying to figure out 912 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 1: like what the limitations and or advantages of that would be. Well, 913 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,440 Speaker 1: you know, I gotta say, if I were to imagine 914 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,719 Speaker 1: going into a fight with with long, sharpened fingernails, I 915 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,520 Speaker 1: think I would honestly be more worried about about trauma 916 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 1: to my fingernails in the fight than I would be 917 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 1: excited about my ability to use them as a weapon. Um. 918 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 1: And this comes back to the duality we talked about earlier, 919 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,839 Speaker 1: like our hard parts, like teeth and nails for some reason, Uh, 920 00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 1: even though they are the hard parts, we have kind 921 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: of like special years of trauma toward them. And if 922 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: you had long nails and a real scuffle, that just 923 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,400 Speaker 1: seems like a real liability. Yeah, and that that seems 924 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: to be part of the consensus. I was looking around 925 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,640 Speaker 1: it is I couldn't find any real studies on this, 926 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: but I was I found a lot of discussion about 927 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,480 Speaker 1: this on martial arts boards. Um So, on one level, 928 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,080 Speaker 1: people would say, Okay, in a stand up fight, if 929 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,360 Speaker 1: you were someone who's after you at being able to 930 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,360 Speaker 1: scratch someone with your nails is not a bad deterrent 931 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,640 Speaker 1: because you can irritate tissue. You can you know, you 932 00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,320 Speaker 1: can go for the eyes. And then also something that 933 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,040 Speaker 1: worth keeping in mind is that your nails as they 934 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,560 Speaker 1: scrape tissue, they collect tissue, which provides a genetic sample 935 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:46,319 Speaker 1: of an attacker potentially. But others also point out, okay, well, 936 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,120 Speaker 1: this idea of sharpening your nails or having long nails 937 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,360 Speaker 1: for you know, to benefit you in a fight. Ultimately, 938 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 1: these are the these can end up bending backwards rather 939 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,280 Speaker 1: than gouge in a you know, a high pressure situation. 940 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,920 Speaker 1: And that also it might make forming a fist that 941 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:06,040 Speaker 1: much harder to do. So, ultimately, it doesn't look like 942 00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:08,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot of evidence for the idea that that 943 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,840 Speaker 1: our nails are are really a um, you know, that 944 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 1: much of a defensive benefit. Though obviously they can be 945 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,640 Speaker 1: used to scratch and claw if neat be so they're not. 946 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,680 Speaker 1: They're not completely useless in that regard, but it doesn't 947 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:24,880 Speaker 1: seem like there are a lot of ways to really 948 00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,320 Speaker 1: encourage them back towards a more defensive claw purpose that 949 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,160 Speaker 1: we would find in other animals. Interesting. Uh So, so 950 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,759 Speaker 1: his Danzig never commented on why he's got long fingernails. 951 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,600 Speaker 1: He doesn't say anything about it. I do not know 952 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,799 Speaker 1: it's possible that he did, uh, and I'm just I'm 953 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:45,839 Speaker 1: just not aware of it. I can't say that. I've 954 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:50,080 Speaker 1: read a lot of interviews with the man over the years. Uh. 955 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: But I imagine that the case there was that he 956 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: did it because it looked cool and creepy, you know, 957 00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,279 Speaker 1: kind of like, uh, something out of a nos Ferato movie. Right. 958 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,160 Speaker 1: Do you see so many and so many different types 959 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 1: of vampires and ghouls and creeps that have have long nails, 960 00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,560 Speaker 1: long tapering nails, and it you know, it looks creepy 961 00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,600 Speaker 1: and cool. I would say the ultimate example of that 962 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,080 Speaker 1: for me is the way klaus Kinski looks in Werner 963 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,399 Speaker 1: Hurtzog's knows Ferrat, where he's got long, creepy nails. Oh 964 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: it's it's it's spine tingling. Oh yeah, those are some 965 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 1: Those are some wonderfully nasty fingernails. I do. I had 966 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 1: to reacquaint myself look up a picture of that. Has 967 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 1: been a while since I've I've seen it, though, I 968 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,280 Speaker 1: guess the the original Nosferatu also had some pretty creepy nails, 969 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,560 Speaker 1: and the Willem Dafoe version also pretty gastly. Oh. Shadow 970 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,080 Speaker 1: of a Vampire. Yeah, that's a great movie. Actually, I 971 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,160 Speaker 1: feel like that that is a sort of forgotten gym. 972 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,200 Speaker 1: I need to revisit it or shadows. Did I say 973 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,000 Speaker 1: Shadow of of Vampire? Shadow of the Vampire? I can't 974 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,600 Speaker 1: remember what the article is, but it's the one with 975 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,560 Speaker 1: Willem Dafoe as Max Shrek and it's it's fantastic. Yeah. 976 00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,480 Speaker 1: I want to say it's the same director who had 977 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,719 Speaker 1: done that really weird art film to Gotten prior to that, 978 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,080 Speaker 1: which which I don't think there's really any compar are 979 00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,080 Speaker 1: some going to be made between the short film and 980 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,880 Speaker 1: in the vampire film, but I don't interesting. But of 981 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,200 Speaker 1: film trivia, nonetheless, I never saw that one. Well, Robert, 982 00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,520 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. We're here on vampires, and I know we're 983 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,520 Speaker 1: out of time, so we gotta wrap up part one. 984 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,120 Speaker 1: But Vampires is the perfect lead in to next time, 985 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:22,239 Speaker 1: where we're gonna be talking about corpses and mythology and 986 00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:27,600 Speaker 1: magic and religion, all surrounding beliefs about nails. That's right, 987 00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,600 Speaker 1: so be sure to uh tune back in. I guess 988 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,840 Speaker 1: this will be Thursday. We will continue our discussion of 989 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,480 Speaker 1: fingernails in the meantime, if you would like to get 990 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,840 Speaker 1: in touch with us, so we'd love to hear from you. Obviously, 991 00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:44,400 Speaker 1: you all have fingernails, or at least you've had them 992 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,880 Speaker 1: at some point. Uh. The same goes for your toe nails. 993 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,920 Speaker 1: You have a useful information about this topic, You have experiences, 994 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,240 Speaker 1: you have you have injuries, uh, you have fighting experience, etcetera. 995 00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,759 Speaker 1: All these things that you might wish to share with us, 996 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,720 Speaker 1: and we would like to hear from you. Uh. Likewise, 997 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:04,600 Speaker 1: just another reminder that if you use the Facebook, there 998 00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,200 Speaker 1: is a Facebook group for our show. It is the 999 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,000 Speaker 1: Stuff to Bow your Mind discussion module, which you can uh, 1000 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: you know, it has to be invited to however it works. 1001 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,319 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that basically we're not active on any 1002 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: real social media account out there, but there is a 1003 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,560 Speaker 1: fair amount of activity in that one little place, so 1004 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,359 Speaker 1: I encourage you to check it out if you wish. 1005 00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:25,719 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you want to listen to other 1006 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,000 Speaker 1: episodes of Stuff to Bowl your Mind, check out some 1007 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,799 Speaker 1: of these past topics of discussion. You can find us 1008 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,600 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast and wherever that happens to be. 1009 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,479 Speaker 1: We just ask that you rate, review and subscribe. Huge 1010 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,920 Speaker 1: thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. 1011 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:42,799 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 1012 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,000 Speaker 1: with feedback from this episode or any other to suggest 1013 00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,319 Speaker 1: topic for the future, just to say hello, you can 1014 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,200 Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 1015 00:55:51,480 --> 00:56:01,440 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff Blow Your Mind is production of I 1016 00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,279 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, this 1017 00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,880 Speaker 1: is the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever 1018 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:08,320 Speaker 1: you listening to your favorite shows