1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Teresa May, thank you so much for joining us on

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,200
Speaker 1: Bloomberg and congratulations on the book.

3
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:06,680
Speaker 2: Who did you write that for?

4
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,959
Speaker 3: I wrote it because a number of issues I'd come

5
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 3: across when I was both Home Secretary and Prime Minister.

6
00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,840
Speaker 3: When I left office and started reflecting on these issues,

7
00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,720
Speaker 3: I realized there was a thread underpinning them and I

8
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 3: wanted to raise awareness about that thread, which was, as

9
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 3: I say in the title of the book, the abuse

10
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,360
Speaker 3: of power. So I was really writing it for those

11
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,559
Speaker 3: who are in power to say, actually they need to

12
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,200
Speaker 3: think that they're in positions of service rather than power,

13
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 3: but also I think to give hope to the power less.

14
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:42,879
Speaker 2: Do you think you had a hard time when you

15
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 2: were in power.

16
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,160
Speaker 3: Well, I had some difficult issues to deal with when

17
00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,320
Speaker 3: I was in power, but every politician, when you're elected,

18
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 3: when you become a government minister, at whatever stage, you

19
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 3: have to deal with the circumstances that you're presented with.

20
00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 1: But with hindsight you feel vindicated because actually you're strategy

21
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 1: could have worked better than other strategy.

22
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,240
Speaker 3: After you well, I assume you're talking about Brexit strategy,

23
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,039
Speaker 3: which is that which, indeed I mean, I'm on record

24
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:11,880
Speaker 3: of saying I think my deal was better than the

25
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,679
Speaker 3: deal that was finally concluded, but I couldn't get my

26
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,480
Speaker 3: deal through the House of Commons, so somebody else had

27
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:18,000
Speaker 3: to go have a go.

28
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you were also personally, you know, they said

29
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,160
Speaker 1: that you were maybe not as exciting as others. Boris

30
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,520
Speaker 1: Johnson proved to be very exciting, a little too exciting.

31
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:28,800
Speaker 4: Well, I think it's interesting.

32
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,880
Speaker 3: It's one of the things that I think I took

33
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,000
Speaker 3: from my childhood. My father was a clergyman, so I

34
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,080
Speaker 3: was brought up in a country vicarage just in Oxfordshire

35
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,120
Speaker 3: in the UK, and in that time I sort of

36
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 3: learned that I wasn't just myself. I was representing in

37
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 3: the sense my father. People looked at my behavior and

38
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 3: sort of saw my father through it, and similarly the church.

39
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 4: And it's a.

40
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 3: Little bit similar in politics that as an individual you're

41
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 3: not just there as the individual. You're there as a

42
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 3: representative your party, your government, and in international affairs of

43
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,040
Speaker 3: your country. And so I've always taken the view that

44
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 3: one must be careful in the approach that I took

45
00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 3: to what I said and how I approached issues.

46
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,360
Speaker 4: And yes, some people said that wasn't very exciting, but

47
00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,600
Speaker 4: so does.

48
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,119
Speaker 1: Your style and the way you did business at the end,

49
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,000
Speaker 1: was it vindicated.

50
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,040
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know. I mean it's a different way

51
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:25,760
Speaker 4: of doing business.

52
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 3: I think it had worked to get some results that

53
00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,160
Speaker 3: I thought were good. Others had a different style and

54
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,000
Speaker 3: came out with a slightly different result. What we will

55
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,680
Speaker 3: see in the future, of course, is as the country

56
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,920
Speaker 3: moves on, how the country deals with the situation that

57
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,920
Speaker 3: it's on. And that's important for us now in our

58
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 3: economy and business is to move on.

59
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,360
Speaker 1: Do you think you were held to a different standard

60
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 1: because you were a female leader.

61
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 3: I don't think. I mean, I think there was some

62
00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,600
Speaker 3: different expectations. Some of the male colleagues would, for example,

63
00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 3: have said and sometimes actively said to me and openly

64
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,959
Speaker 3: said to me that when I was negotiating with the

65
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,079
Speaker 3: European Union, I should have been something the table. I

66
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,120
Speaker 3: should have been walking out of the room, I should

67
00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 3: have been slamming the door, as very sort of aggressive

68
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,640
Speaker 3: ways of doing it. In fact, I had spent some

69
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,440
Speaker 3: years before I went into Parliament in a position where

70
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 3: I was negotiating with the European Union European Commission, and

71
00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:30,079
Speaker 3: I'd learned through that that it was painstaking, slow, deliberate

72
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 3: and careful negotiation on the details that got you where

73
00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 3: you wanted to be.

74
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 1: But has politics changed in the last five to six years,

75
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: the way we communicate, the way diplomacy around the world,

76
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:40,880
Speaker 1: frankly is done.

77
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,320
Speaker 3: I think politics across the world has been changing in

78
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,280
Speaker 3: recent years. I say in the book, I think we

79
00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 3: live in a more absolutist world, a sense of you're

80
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 3: either one hundred percent with me or one hundred percent

81
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 3: against me. I think there are some in politics who

82
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 3: find it difficult to accept the concept of compromise, whereas

83
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 3: we know in politics, in business, in everyday life, sometimes

84
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 3: you actually have to compromise. And I think there has

85
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 3: been in some senses. If you look at politics today,

86
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 3: there's less respect than there has been in the past,

87
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,840
Speaker 3: perhaps a courser debate. I don't think that's good and

88
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,520
Speaker 3: I think sometimes that puts young people off, which is

89
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,160
Speaker 3: not good for the future of our democracy.

90
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 2: What's your biggest regret?

91
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 3: Well, I have to say my biggest regret is not

92
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,960
Speaker 3: getting the deal I wanted to get through the House

93
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,760
Speaker 3: of Commons. And I think every Prime Minister leaves office

94
00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,920
Speaker 3: feeling that there were things that they wanted to do.

95
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,240
Speaker 3: So some of the things I started have now been completed.

96
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,920
Speaker 3: I introduced a new Domestic Abuse Act, for example, which

97
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,159
Speaker 3: is now on the Statute Book. I introduced did some

98
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 3: work for a new Mental Health Act which has not

99
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 3: yet reached the Statute Book. We still have that still

100
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,039
Speaker 3: has to be brought forward. So there were always things

101
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 3: that if you've had a little more time, you hope

102
00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 3: you would have completed.

103
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,119
Speaker 1: Did you feel at the time that the Brexitiers actually

104
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 1: left it to the remainers to get the job done

105
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,760
Speaker 1: because they didn't really have a blueprint of what they wanted.

106
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 3: Well, ultimately, I think some of them found it difficult

107
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,480
Speaker 3: to think that a remainer, because I'd voted Remain, could

108
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,320
Speaker 3: deliver Brexit for them, and so therefore, obviously, after me,

109
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 3: they went for Boris Johnson, who had led the Brexit

110
00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,800
Speaker 3: campaign and was a Brexiteer. And during the debates and

111
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,360
Speaker 3: towards the end of my time, we saw the sort

112
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,600
Speaker 3: of hard line Brexitiers looking for a very hard Brexit,

113
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 3: hard line remainers wanting a second referendum to stay in

114
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,920
Speaker 3: and that's why Parliament couldn't come together.

115
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,719
Speaker 2: Do you think we'll ever get a second referendum.

116
00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 3: No, I think the decision has been taken, and I

117
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,800
Speaker 3: have always taken the view that if you ask the

118
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,440
Speaker 3: people their view and they give you their view, you

119
00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,839
Speaker 3: should act on that. I think it was the democratic

120
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,719
Speaker 3: will of the people that we left the European Union.

121
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 3: But I think now what we must be doing is saying, actually,

122
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,799
Speaker 3: we've done Brexit, let's stop thinking of life in terms

123
00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:00,479
Speaker 3: of Brexit.

124
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,839
Speaker 4: Let's move on and look for the future.

125
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 1: The Exmins bar Stewart Rose says Brexit will be reversed

126
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 1: within twenty years.

127
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,040
Speaker 2: Do you think that's possible.

128
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,440
Speaker 3: Well, I think a lot of people when they look

129
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,919
Speaker 3: at that, are thinking of if you like the current

130
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 3: circumstances of the European Union, over the next twenty years,

131
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,720
Speaker 3: the European Union is going to change. Its structures will change,

132
00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,680
Speaker 3: its membership will change, so it will be a different body.

133
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,080
Speaker 3: The UK will develop over that twenty years. If you

134
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 3: look back, there's always been an issue, even since we

135
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 3: first joined the Common Market as it was then, there's

136
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,120
Speaker 3: always been a slight concern in the UK an island

137
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 3: nation about this sense of being sort of attached to

138
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,960
Speaker 3: a group in Europe, and that came to its head

139
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,839
Speaker 3: for a variety of reasons in the referendum. I think

140
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 3: part of that was part of the wider political sense

141
00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 3: that we've had across the world of people feeling globalization

142
00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,800
Speaker 3: hadn't been working for them. Some people have been left behind,

143
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 3: and the UK wanted their politicians to change.

144
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 1: But looking forward five to ten years, could you see

145
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: an arrangement where actually the tour closer together.

146
00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,440
Speaker 3: Well, I think what we've already seen, for example, the

147
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,000
Speaker 3: UK negotiating to rejoin the Horizon, I think is a

148
00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,200
Speaker 3: very good example of a recognition that sometimes there are

149
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,840
Speaker 3: things there that it's good to be part of. That

150
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 3: in relation to the EU, and I think over time

151
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,520
Speaker 3: we will see those number of areas. There are some

152
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,360
Speaker 3: areas on the law enforcement side which I recognized as

153
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 3: Home Secretary, where I hope we'll be able to get

154
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 3: greater access to some databases and things like that. But

155
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 3: I think there's a recognition now the need to sit

156
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 3: down and say, well, what makes sense.

157
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:43,280
Speaker 2: What do you think makes sense?

158
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 1: And again, depending on what happens at the next selection,

159
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 1: do you think that will again be on the table.

160
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 1: If not another referendum, certainly closer business dies.

161
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 3: I think over time governments will be looking to see

162
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 3: what makes sense for economies on both sides, for the

163
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 3: EU but also for the for the UK economy and

164
00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,520
Speaker 3: businesses in the UK as well.

165
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,640
Speaker 1: Do you ever regret making Boris Johnson your Foreign Minister?

166
00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:08,200
Speaker 4: No.

167
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 3: I was very clear when I set my cabinet that

168
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,840
Speaker 3: I needed to have a cabinet that was both remainers

169
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 3: and Brexiteers. The result of the referendum was clear, but

170
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,360
Speaker 3: it was close, and what I want, always wanted to do,

171
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,920
Speaker 3: was to deliver Brexit, but a Brexit that recognized the

172
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,720
Speaker 3: concerns of the forty eight percent who had voted to remain.

173
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,640
Speaker 3: Boris had led the Brexit campaign. I think therefore it

174
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,199
Speaker 3: was right that he was in the cabinet in a

175
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 3: prominent role.

176
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 1: We've had quite an eventful, let's call it that, twelve

177
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,000
Speaker 1: months in UK politics, in UK business and UK markets.

178
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,839
Speaker 1: You think things have stabilized after the Mini budget of last.

179
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,079
Speaker 3: Item, Yes, I think things have stabilized. I think Rishi

180
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,880
Speaker 3: I mean started. Jeremy hunt being brought in as Chancellor

181
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 3: I think was the first step. But Rishi taking over

182
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,000
Speaker 3: obviously as leader of the Party and Prime Minister. With

183
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:02,760
Speaker 3: Jeremy in number eleven has stabilized matters. I mean, it's

184
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,640
Speaker 3: been difficult for economies around the world with the impact

185
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 3: of the pandemic, and you know we're all still coming

186
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,000
Speaker 3: out of that. But I think and what I see,

187
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,480
Speaker 3: and what I hope markets and businesses see, is a

188
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,680
Speaker 3: UK government that recognizes the importance of sound public finance.

189
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,280
Speaker 1: If you look at the polls, is there any advice

190
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: that you would give the current government to avoidatory wipe

191
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 1: out at the next selections.

192
00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,320
Speaker 3: I think what Rischie Sunak is doing, which is saying

193
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,240
Speaker 3: I've identified priorities, the priorities of British people, and I'm

194
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,559
Speaker 3: working hard to deliver on those, is what he should

195
00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:43,079
Speaker 3: be doing. And I think so he's doing the right thing. Obviously,

196
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 3: in economic terms, inflation is critical. We have a generation now.

197
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 3: You know, I'm old enough to have lived through inflation

198
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 3: in the seventies, but there's a generation now who haven't

199
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,080
Speaker 3: lived through higher interest rates and inflation, and it has

200
00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,280
Speaker 3: been difficult for many Many people are struggling in their

201
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,280
Speaker 3: day to day life from their day to day finances.

202
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,120
Speaker 3: Bringing that inflation down is important.

203
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 1: But would you say to those voters that say, look,

204
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,520
Speaker 1: the Tories have had a good shot at this for

205
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,640
Speaker 1: a long time and it's just time for a change.

206
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,880
Speaker 3: What I say is listen to the future that we

207
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 3: want to create to ensure that the United Kingdom has

208
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,439
Speaker 3: the future of jobs, future of prosperity. That is what

209
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,679
Speaker 3: we are looking to deliver. We've had these difficulties, pandemic

210
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,800
Speaker 3: hit economies. We're now stabilizing that economy and as you

211
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,439
Speaker 3: see from what for example, Rishi is doing in terms

212
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,760
Speaker 3: of the AI conference, very much saying what is the

213
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,440
Speaker 3: future and how can we the United Kingdom be a

214
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 3: good part of that future and encourage businesses in the

215
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 3: UK to be part of that future.

216
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 1: You were very deliberate and precise in your dealings with China.

217
00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 1: Should Rushie Sunak have flown to China actually first year

218
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:53,359
Speaker 1: in office?

219
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,120
Speaker 3: I think it's the debate about China is often seems

220
00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,880
Speaker 3: to be in what I described earlier as those absolutists

221
00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,559
Speaker 3: to terms that either you ignored China or you're completely

222
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,880
Speaker 3: sort of in with China. The answer is, of course

223
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,240
Speaker 3: that it's right to be neither of those. You can't

224
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,679
Speaker 3: ignore china huge economic presence across the world. Although the

225
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,720
Speaker 3: Deputy Prime Minister identified it is the number one state

226
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 3: based threat to our economic security. But it's a huge

227
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:24,840
Speaker 3: presence economically for businesses, but also of course in terms

228
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,400
Speaker 3: of the way it has reached out across the world,

229
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,199
Speaker 3: sometimes being able to take a position in countries because

230
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 3: the West has not been there. So we should learn

231
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 3: from that, I think, But we have to balance there

232
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,959
Speaker 3: are real human rights issues with China. You know, I'm

233
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 3: involved in setting up a Global Commission on Modern slavery.

234
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,360
Speaker 3: If you look at the recent Global Slavery Index, it

235
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,559
Speaker 3: identified solar panels being created in China and labor exploitation

236
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,960
Speaker 3: behind those. So we have to look very carefully in

237
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,440
Speaker 3: businesses can make a huge difference in looking at their

238
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 3: supply chain.

239
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 1: But at the moment, do you think we're too hard

240
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,679
Speaker 1: on China? And is there a danger that if you

241
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 1: look at the template of what happened with Russia and

242
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,480
Speaker 1: the Cold War, we're repeating that with China today.

243
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,080
Speaker 3: Well, I think what was interesting if you think about

244
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,560
Speaker 3: Russia in the Cold War is in a sense both

245
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:19,280
Speaker 3: sides knew where the dividing lines were and were able

246
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 3: to there was an existence that was able to go

247
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,520
Speaker 3: into the future with people understanding those dividing lines, and

248
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 3: I think maybe we haven't quite got to that point

249
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 3: with China. And it's very interesting if you look at

250
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,560
Speaker 3: somebody like Kevin Rudd, former Australian Prime Minister, who's very

251
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,839
Speaker 3: knowledgeable on China, he sets out that as one of

252
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 3: the potential ways forward.

253
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,520
Speaker 2: President Trump had given you a hard time.

254
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,280
Speaker 1: Would you think a second presidency if he wins the

255
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 1: next election means for the world.

256
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,719
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not going to speculate on the result of

257
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 3: an American presidential election, or indeed on the result of

258
00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,439
Speaker 3: parties candidates and who they choose for candidates.

259
00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:01,720
Speaker 4: I would say is that it was.

260
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,760
Speaker 3: I would say, a presidency like no other when we

261
00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 3: saw President Trump in his position, and it was a

262
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,440
Speaker 3: more unpredictable, perhaps an uncertain presidency. I think what we

263
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,400
Speaker 3: see now, and in a sense the war in Ukraine

264
00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,280
Speaker 3: has helped with this is America again with its Western

265
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 3: allies standing up for Western values.

266
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,839
Speaker 2: But do you see abuse of power in the US?

267
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 3: What I worry about in the US is the polarization

268
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,319
Speaker 3: of politics. What I would say, the very hard line

269
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:39,839
Speaker 3: polarization of politics. And I, as many around the world

270
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,839
Speaker 3: in democracies, were deeply concerned about the mob attack on

271
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,000
Speaker 3: the Capitol and what that meant for democracy. And I

272
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,240
Speaker 3: think it in a sense was a wake up call

273
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 3: because in recent decades, I think those of us in

274
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,199
Speaker 3: the West have taken the view that liberal democracies were

275
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,520
Speaker 3: in the ascendancy, that this was an accepted way forward,

276
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 3: and we almost didn't need to worry, became complacent. Actually

277
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,800
Speaker 3: we have to fight, We have to work hard to

278
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,240
Speaker 3: protect democracies and to persuade younger generations in our own

279
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 3: countries of the importance of democracy.

280
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,360
Speaker 1: But are these cycles in the politics and foreign affairs

281
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 1: of the world or is it social media.

282
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 3: Well, I think you can argue that politics does have

283
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 3: its cycles. If you look at the economic situation. Many

284
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,440
Speaker 3: would say I'd refer to the nineteen seventies. Many would say,

285
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 3: we're seeing that sort of cycle. But I think that

286
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 3: my own view of social media does have an impact

287
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 3: on these issues in terms of the nature of political debate.

288
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 3: And I think it means that somebody whose views normally

289
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:50,000
Speaker 3: would perhaps be dismissed or not listened to, can promulgate

290
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 3: those views across social media, and other people similarly thinking

291
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:54,840
Speaker 3: will respond.

292
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,280
Speaker 4: It becomes a worldview.

293
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,360
Speaker 3: And the danger is that people only listen to people

294
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 3: who have the same views as them and don't enter

295
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,480
Speaker 3: into what we need in politics, which is a respectful

296
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 3: and serious debate because we're all facing some really tough issues.

297
00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,840
Speaker 1: In your book, you talk about concrete examples and you

298
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,040
Speaker 1: unpick the kind of abuse of power. Do you think

299
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 1: it will get worse before it gets better?

300
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 3: Well, I hope that having written the book, having, if

301
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 3: you like, shone a light on this issue of the

302
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 3: abuse of power, then actually people will start to say, yes,

303
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 3: there is something there. What can we do to have

304
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,160
Speaker 3: a different approach? I mean, the fundamental of the book

305
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,160
Speaker 3: is that you know, I start off by saying in

306
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 3: an interview I'd said that being Prime Minister was not

307
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 3: a position of power, it was a position of service.

308
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,240
Speaker 3: I think all those who are in politics are there

309
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 3: in a position of service and should never forget that.

310
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 2: So why do young people not want to join politics?

311
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:53,920
Speaker 2: How difficult is it?

312
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 1: Because you get dragged through the muddy and politics was

313
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 1: also a dirty business. But what you're also getting at

314
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 1: is it's maybe harder now than it was twenty years ago.

315
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 3: I think that for a lot of young people, I

316
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 3: think that the world is different to the world that

317
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 3: perhaps I grew up in. I think there is an

318
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,240
Speaker 3: element of some people who don't go into politics, particularly

319
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 3: sadly women who don't go into politics because of the bullying,

320
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 3: the harassment, the threats on social media for example, and

321
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 3: feeling that that's not something they want to they want

322
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 3: to be part of all on the recipients of I

323
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 3: think also for young people, often these days they're having

324
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 3: to cope with really difficult some with really difficult times.

325
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 3: I think we do see a younger generation who are

326
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 3: now worried that they won't be better off than their parents.

327
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 3: You know, we've seen through time every generation has hoped

328
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 3: that its children will.

329
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 4: Be better off.

330
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,640
Speaker 3: But now you just look in the UK how difficult

331
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 3: it is for young people to own their own home.

332
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 4: For example.

333
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 3: As I said earlier, the impact of higher interest rates

334
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,000
Speaker 3: of inflation has been something they haven't had to cope

335
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 3: with before. And I think that sort of day today,

336
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 3: managing and a feeling perhaps that the politicians haven't responded

337
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,120
Speaker 3: to those needs perhaps also is an element of putting

338
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 3: them off politics.

339
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,359
Speaker 1: You talk about the Metropolitan Police, you talk about Grenfell,

340
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,879
Speaker 1: you talk also about immigration. What are you most ashamed

341
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 1: of in terms of policies that have been put in place,

342
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,400
Speaker 1: or the abuse of power in inserting pockets of UK society.

343
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 4: Well, I think the.

344
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 3: Underlying theme that I'm really concerned about is the sense

345
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 3: of people in public institutions, which are often there to

346
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,399
Speaker 3: protect the public or to serve the public, deciding and

347
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,120
Speaker 3: said to take decisions that serve themselves rather than the public. So,

348
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,400
Speaker 3: if you like, the idea for the book came from

349
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 3: reflections I made after I'd left office, but was really

350
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,439
Speaker 3: smarked by Hillsborough.

351
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 4: This was a.

352
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 3: Sporting tragedy that happened in nineteen eighty nine. Ninety seven

353
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 3: Liverpool fans were killed and after the tragedy what we

354
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 3: saw was it was South Yorkshire Police in that case

355
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 3: ordering witness statements blaming the fans. We've now got to

356
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 3: a point, thankfully where the fans have been exonerated. But

357
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 3: it's that sense that I want to draw out there

358
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 3: and in other examples of people in the public sector

359
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 3: in positions of power, using that power for themselves and

360
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 3: their institution to defend their institution rather than to protect

361
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 3: or serve the people that they are there to serve.

362
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 2: You've become a little bit of a meme celebrity. Right,

363
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,280
Speaker 2: were dancing? Which is it something?

364
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 3: I mean different descriptions of my dancing, by the way, different.

365
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:43,679
Speaker 2: Do you regret the dancing?

366
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,639
Speaker 4: I don't regret the dancing. No, no, I know.

367
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 1: You also made global headlines talking about, you know, the

368
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,879
Speaker 1: naughtiest thing you've done since you've left number ten? Have

369
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,680
Speaker 1: you done anything naughtier running.

370
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 4: Through the fields?

371
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 3: I have to say, if I was asked today, what's

372
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,439
Speaker 3: the silliest thing I've done, probably answering that question was

373
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 3: the silliest thing that I'd ever done.

374
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,640
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Teresa Mae for your time.

375
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:06,159
Speaker 4: Thank you