1
00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:21,796
Speaker 1: Bushkin. I may have Higgins and this is solvable. Interviews

2
00:00:21,876 --> 00:00:25,236
Speaker 1: with the world's most innovative thinkers working to solve the

3
00:00:25,276 --> 00:00:30,276
Speaker 1: world's biggest problems. My solvable is I want to change

4
00:00:30,316 --> 00:00:34,676
Speaker 1: the way men and women see themselves through film. That's

5
00:00:34,876 --> 00:00:39,276
Speaker 1: Charmine Obichnoi. She is a journalist, a filmmaker, and an activist,

6
00:00:39,636 --> 00:00:43,956
Speaker 1: oh and a two time Oscar winner. Gender based violence

7
00:00:44,036 --> 00:00:48,196
Speaker 1: happens in all societies, regardless of income, class, and culture,

8
00:00:48,756 --> 00:00:51,676
Speaker 1: but Charmine is Pakistani and she makes much of her

9
00:00:51,716 --> 00:00:55,956
Speaker 1: work there. Pakistan sees thousands of cases of violence against

10
00:00:55,956 --> 00:01:01,196
Speaker 1: women every year, from rape and acid attacks to sexual assault, kidnappings,

11
00:01:01,236 --> 00:01:05,156
Speaker 1: and so called honor killings. There's a growing movement to

12
00:01:05,196 --> 00:01:08,756
Speaker 1: tackle this. The country's top judge announced earlier this year

13
00:01:08,796 --> 00:01:12,516
Speaker 1: that more than one thousand courts dedicated to tackling violence

14
00:01:12,556 --> 00:01:15,316
Speaker 1: against women are going to be set up. A pilot

15
00:01:15,356 --> 00:01:19,076
Speaker 1: court of this kind was opened in twenty seventeen in Punjab,

16
00:01:19,396 --> 00:01:24,636
Speaker 1: Pakistan's most populous province. Local High Court Chief Justice Monsour

17
00:01:24,756 --> 00:01:27,676
Speaker 1: Ali Shah said at the time that women were the

18
00:01:27,716 --> 00:01:31,756
Speaker 1: most vulnerable members of society and that one in every

19
00:01:31,836 --> 00:01:35,476
Speaker 1: three had been a victim of physical or psychological violence.

20
00:01:36,556 --> 00:01:39,956
Speaker 1: Our Guest Today shares the same goal as Judge Shah,

21
00:01:40,116 --> 00:01:43,036
Speaker 1: changing the way women are treated in Pakistan, but she

22
00:01:43,236 --> 00:01:49,236
Speaker 1: uses a different medium. Film. Charmine's films have been hugely influential,

23
00:01:49,516 --> 00:01:54,116
Speaker 1: raising awareness and bringing about legislative change. In her Oscar

24
00:01:54,156 --> 00:01:57,436
Speaker 1: winning film A Girl in the River, Charmine tells the

25
00:01:57,516 --> 00:02:01,876
Speaker 1: story of Saba Quisera, a young woman who survived an

26
00:02:01,876 --> 00:02:05,396
Speaker 1: attempted murder at the hands of her father. In her

27
00:02:05,436 --> 00:02:10,076
Speaker 1: Oscar acceptance speech, Charmine held the then primestair of Pakistan

28
00:02:10,156 --> 00:02:13,676
Speaker 1: to account for doing something about it, and that actually

29
00:02:13,756 --> 00:02:18,076
Speaker 1: led to changes in laws protecting women. But Charmaine didn't

30
00:02:18,116 --> 00:02:22,116
Speaker 1: just want like international audiences to understand the problem. She

31
00:02:22,236 --> 00:02:25,836
Speaker 1: wanted to take it to the people most affected. Herself

32
00:02:25,836 --> 00:02:28,516
Speaker 1: and her team have built a mobile cinema on a truck,

33
00:02:28,996 --> 00:02:32,356
Speaker 1: and they drive it to communities throughout Pakistan, especially where

34
00:02:32,356 --> 00:02:36,356
Speaker 1: honor killings are most prevalent, and they host screenings of

35
00:02:36,356 --> 00:02:39,476
Speaker 1: A Girl in the River and they discuss the changes

36
00:02:39,516 --> 00:02:42,476
Speaker 1: in the law and how women can advocate for themselves.

37
00:02:43,116 --> 00:02:46,836
Speaker 1: They show other films too, films to tackle income inequality

38
00:02:47,116 --> 00:02:51,476
Speaker 1: and climate change, and ethnic relations and religious tolerance as

39
00:02:51,516 --> 00:02:54,836
Speaker 1: well as two Oscars. Charmaine has received six Emmys, and

40
00:02:55,036 --> 00:02:58,716
Speaker 1: in twenty twelve, the government of Pakistan honored her with

41
00:02:58,756 --> 00:03:02,276
Speaker 1: the Crescent of Excellence, which is the second highest civilian

42
00:03:02,356 --> 00:03:05,796
Speaker 1: honor of the country, and Time magazine named her one

43
00:03:05,836 --> 00:03:08,956
Speaker 1: of the one hundred most influential people in the world.

44
00:03:09,716 --> 00:03:13,356
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen into her conversation with Ahmed Ali Akbar.

45
00:03:15,236 --> 00:03:17,956
Speaker 1: So what is the problem for you and why is

46
00:03:17,996 --> 00:03:21,236
Speaker 1: it something that you want to address the problem is

47
00:03:21,516 --> 00:03:25,556
Speaker 1: that men don't see women as their equals, and I

48
00:03:25,596 --> 00:03:29,836
Speaker 1: feel that film can change that. It can change their outlook,

49
00:03:29,876 --> 00:03:32,196
Speaker 1: it can change the relationship between a man and a woman,

50
00:03:32,436 --> 00:03:34,876
Speaker 1: it can change the way they see the potential of

51
00:03:34,916 --> 00:03:40,196
Speaker 1: a woman. And bringing films into communities and opening up

52
00:03:40,476 --> 00:03:44,636
Speaker 1: the minds of men and women to the potential of

53
00:03:44,676 --> 00:03:48,916
Speaker 1: a woman, I feel cinema can change that. So tell

54
00:03:48,956 --> 00:03:52,996
Speaker 1: me about the culture of honor killings in Pakistan. Pakistan

55
00:03:53,356 --> 00:03:59,236
Speaker 1: is a deeply patriarchal, misogynistic country and you have forces

56
00:03:59,356 --> 00:04:02,356
Speaker 1: that are pushing and pulling against each other. Now with

57
00:04:02,396 --> 00:04:06,916
Speaker 1: this generation of young women who are educated, who want

58
00:04:07,356 --> 00:04:11,076
Speaker 1: rights for themselves, who want to make decisions about their lives,

59
00:04:11,276 --> 00:04:13,676
Speaker 1: and they don't want their fathers and their brothers and

60
00:04:13,716 --> 00:04:17,756
Speaker 1: their husbands to do that for them, And so more

61
00:04:17,796 --> 00:04:21,476
Speaker 1: and more women find themselves standing up and asking for

62
00:04:21,516 --> 00:04:24,636
Speaker 1: their rights and saying no to things that they don't

63
00:04:24,636 --> 00:04:28,916
Speaker 1: want to do, and the men, the old God is

64
00:04:29,196 --> 00:04:32,156
Speaker 1: pushing back. They don't want to give up the space

65
00:04:32,196 --> 00:04:34,716
Speaker 1: that they have, and so more and more women are

66
00:04:34,756 --> 00:04:39,956
Speaker 1: finding themselves being victims of domestic violence or being killed

67
00:04:40,076 --> 00:04:43,436
Speaker 1: in the name of honor. Honor is this word that

68
00:04:43,596 --> 00:04:47,796
Speaker 1: is used and thrown a lot around a lot in Pakistan,

69
00:04:48,236 --> 00:04:51,156
Speaker 1: and the concept is that the honor of a woman

70
00:04:51,316 --> 00:04:53,876
Speaker 1: rests with the man, and there are all of these

71
00:04:53,956 --> 00:04:59,716
Speaker 1: unwritten rules that if a woman transgresses some invisible line,

72
00:04:59,756 --> 00:05:02,996
Speaker 1: that there will be repercussions for her. For example, a

73
00:05:03,076 --> 00:05:06,476
Speaker 1: woman asking for a divorce her husband might think that

74
00:05:06,516 --> 00:05:09,996
Speaker 1: she's dishonoring him and may kill her in the name

75
00:05:10,036 --> 00:05:13,276
Speaker 1: of honor. A daughter decides to get married to a

76
00:05:13,356 --> 00:05:17,716
Speaker 1: man of her own, choosing a father decides she's dishonoring

77
00:05:17,796 --> 00:05:22,516
Speaker 1: him and kills her. So there is no one reason

78
00:05:22,556 --> 00:05:25,036
Speaker 1: why women are killed in the name of honor. Women

79
00:05:25,036 --> 00:05:27,236
Speaker 1: are killed in the name of honor because men decide

80
00:05:27,716 --> 00:05:31,156
Speaker 1: that a woman has crossed a line and she deserves

81
00:05:31,196 --> 00:05:37,076
Speaker 1: to be punished, and they're shot, dismembered, buried in unmarked

82
00:05:37,076 --> 00:05:40,756
Speaker 1: graves and the names are forever forgotten. Tell me about

83
00:05:40,956 --> 00:05:43,276
Speaker 1: what is it about this problem of honor killing that

84
00:05:43,316 --> 00:05:45,236
Speaker 1: made you decide that you wanted to tackle it in

85
00:05:45,236 --> 00:05:48,916
Speaker 1: your films. In order to change the way men see women,

86
00:05:49,316 --> 00:05:52,636
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring films into the mix. I wanted

87
00:05:52,756 --> 00:05:56,916
Speaker 1: men to see women not as victims, but as survivors,

88
00:05:56,956 --> 00:06:01,076
Speaker 1: as heroes, as women in power, as women who fight back.

89
00:06:01,756 --> 00:06:03,996
Speaker 1: And the story is a women that I've chosen to

90
00:06:04,036 --> 00:06:08,676
Speaker 1: tell are exactly those sort of women. Women who are

91
00:06:08,796 --> 00:06:12,436
Speaker 1: climb mountains, women who are part of the anti terrorism squad,

92
00:06:12,676 --> 00:06:17,476
Speaker 1: women who have stood up against men and fought and one.

93
00:06:17,556 --> 00:06:20,236
Speaker 1: And those are the stories that we're capturing on cinema.

94
00:06:20,276 --> 00:06:23,516
Speaker 1: And we've built a mobile cinema in Pakistan to take

95
00:06:23,556 --> 00:06:26,916
Speaker 1: those stories into towns and villages who will never have

96
00:06:27,036 --> 00:06:30,316
Speaker 1: access to those kind of films. In order to change

97
00:06:30,356 --> 00:06:32,876
Speaker 1: the way men see women, in order to change the

98
00:06:32,956 --> 00:06:36,356
Speaker 1: way women are treated, you have to get men to

99
00:06:36,476 --> 00:06:38,756
Speaker 1: accept women as their equal. You have to get them

100
00:06:38,756 --> 00:06:41,916
Speaker 1: to look at them and see their worth. And film

101
00:06:41,996 --> 00:06:44,756
Speaker 1: is one way of opening their eyes to it. And

102
00:06:44,796 --> 00:06:47,076
Speaker 1: we're starting at a very young age. We're starting with

103
00:06:47,116 --> 00:06:50,236
Speaker 1: schools and you know, with community centers, and then into

104
00:06:50,316 --> 00:06:53,996
Speaker 1: villages and then into towns. And with each film screening

105
00:06:54,036 --> 00:06:57,036
Speaker 1: that we do, we ask the question, do you think

106
00:06:57,036 --> 00:06:58,956
Speaker 1: women should go out and work? Do you think women

107
00:06:58,996 --> 00:07:01,676
Speaker 1: should study? Do you think your mother has the right

108
00:07:02,116 --> 00:07:04,876
Speaker 1: at home? Do you think your sisters should have the

109
00:07:04,956 --> 00:07:07,356
Speaker 1: right to choose a man to marry? You know, these

110
00:07:07,356 --> 00:07:09,836
Speaker 1: are questions which might seem to the rest of the

111
00:07:09,876 --> 00:07:13,156
Speaker 1: world is so basic, but so important to ask in

112
00:07:13,196 --> 00:07:16,676
Speaker 1: a country like Pakistan, because change is not going to

113
00:07:16,676 --> 00:07:20,076
Speaker 1: come with simply just changing laws. Change is going to

114
00:07:20,196 --> 00:07:23,316
Speaker 1: come when you change the way people see things and

115
00:07:23,436 --> 00:07:26,316
Speaker 1: accept things. So you were able to actually show your

116
00:07:26,396 --> 00:07:29,716
Speaker 1: film A Girl on the River with navashar If, previous

117
00:07:29,756 --> 00:07:32,356
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Pakistan. Can you talk to me about

118
00:07:32,396 --> 00:07:35,236
Speaker 1: what that was like taking your story to the highest

119
00:07:35,276 --> 00:07:37,716
Speaker 1: level of government and sort of what impact and conversations.

120
00:07:37,716 --> 00:07:41,116
Speaker 1: It started in twenty sixteen when I did A Girl

121
00:07:41,116 --> 00:07:43,076
Speaker 1: in the River The Price of Forgiveness, which was a

122
00:07:43,076 --> 00:07:45,996
Speaker 1: film about honor killings. The film was nominated for an

123
00:07:45,956 --> 00:07:49,196
Speaker 1: Academy Award and the Prime Minister, as part of his

124
00:07:49,316 --> 00:07:53,036
Speaker 1: congratulatory note to me, said that he would love to

125
00:07:53,036 --> 00:07:56,756
Speaker 1: screen the film in his office, and so I've immediately

126
00:07:56,836 --> 00:08:00,156
Speaker 1: jumped at the opportunity because as a filmmaker, we were

127
00:08:00,196 --> 00:08:03,396
Speaker 1: desperately my team and I were trying to change and

128
00:08:03,516 --> 00:08:06,236
Speaker 1: impact a loophole in the law in the honor killing

129
00:08:06,316 --> 00:08:08,356
Speaker 1: law in Pakistan, and so we felt that if we

130
00:08:08,356 --> 00:08:10,396
Speaker 1: were to screen for the Prime Minister, the right kind

131
00:08:10,436 --> 00:08:12,876
Speaker 1: of attention would be given to the subject of the

132
00:08:12,876 --> 00:08:16,636
Speaker 1: film and perhaps help us get the lakoon and the

133
00:08:16,676 --> 00:08:21,116
Speaker 1: law closed. And so I accepted, and I went to

134
00:08:21,156 --> 00:08:24,156
Speaker 1: see the Prime Minister and we had a conversation and

135
00:08:24,196 --> 00:08:27,076
Speaker 1: he said, why don't we screen the film after the

136
00:08:27,116 --> 00:08:29,396
Speaker 1: Academy Awards. And I thought to myself, well, if I

137
00:08:29,436 --> 00:08:32,796
Speaker 1: don't win, this might never happen. So I pushed for

138
00:08:32,996 --> 00:08:34,996
Speaker 1: the screening of the film to take place before I

139
00:08:35,076 --> 00:08:38,236
Speaker 1: left for La, and he screened for his entire cabinet,

140
00:08:38,476 --> 00:08:41,836
Speaker 1: and at the screening he said something very important which

141
00:08:41,956 --> 00:08:46,236
Speaker 1: was televised live across the country, that there is no

142
00:08:46,316 --> 00:08:49,916
Speaker 1: honor and honor killing, and he pledged to change the

143
00:08:49,996 --> 00:08:53,836
Speaker 1: law on it. And I went off to La and

144
00:08:53,916 --> 00:08:58,276
Speaker 1: we won the Academy Award, and then in my acceptance speech,

145
00:08:58,476 --> 00:09:01,876
Speaker 1: I told the billion people watching that the Prime Minister

146
00:09:01,916 --> 00:09:04,516
Speaker 1: of Pakistan had pledged to change the law. Because nothing

147
00:09:04,556 --> 00:09:06,996
Speaker 1: like holding the prime minister accountable in front of billions

148
00:09:07,076 --> 00:09:10,956
Speaker 1: of people. So when I came back to Pakistan, I

149
00:09:10,996 --> 00:09:13,956
Speaker 1: worked with the government and with the other activists who

150
00:09:13,996 --> 00:09:17,836
Speaker 1: had been laying the groundwork for the passage of the law.

151
00:09:18,596 --> 00:09:22,076
Speaker 1: And I think our film played a small role in

152
00:09:23,036 --> 00:09:29,156
Speaker 1: lighting kind of having this lightning rod effect in pushing

153
00:09:29,196 --> 00:09:33,396
Speaker 1: this legislation forward. And in October twenty sixteen, the lacuna

154
00:09:33,396 --> 00:09:37,356
Speaker 1: and the law that we wanted changed closed so that

155
00:09:37,516 --> 00:09:41,836
Speaker 1: men could no longer be forgiven if they committed on

156
00:09:41,956 --> 00:09:44,116
Speaker 1: our killings that they would have to spend a lifetime

157
00:09:44,156 --> 00:09:47,676
Speaker 1: in jail. And of course it was a great victory

158
00:09:47,676 --> 00:09:50,196
Speaker 1: for us, but the very next day a woman was

159
00:09:50,276 --> 00:09:52,676
Speaker 1: killed in the name of honor, and then another and another,

160
00:09:52,716 --> 00:09:55,676
Speaker 1: and we began to think about the fact that passage

161
00:09:55,676 --> 00:09:58,036
Speaker 1: of the law was one thing, but we really needed

162
00:09:58,076 --> 00:10:01,436
Speaker 1: to work on changing the way men saw women and

163
00:10:01,596 --> 00:10:05,876
Speaker 1: changing the way people saw on our killings. Wow, and

164
00:10:06,116 --> 00:10:10,636
Speaker 1: that's shocking considering the movement that the anti honor killing

165
00:10:10,836 --> 00:10:14,676
Speaker 1: activism has made in the law that in a practical level,

166
00:10:14,956 --> 00:10:17,956
Speaker 1: the effect is not being felt for the women of Pakistan.

167
00:10:18,876 --> 00:10:24,396
Speaker 1: You cannot change things simply by changing laws. You have

168
00:10:24,476 --> 00:10:28,956
Speaker 1: to change people's mindsets. You have to change the entire

169
00:10:29,076 --> 00:10:33,396
Speaker 1: culture of who a woman is, what is her place

170
00:10:33,436 --> 00:10:38,196
Speaker 1: in society, what is her worth. We still have young

171
00:10:38,276 --> 00:10:41,676
Speaker 1: girls in homes who are fed food after the young

172
00:10:41,796 --> 00:10:44,996
Speaker 1: boys are fed food. You still have young girls staying

173
00:10:45,036 --> 00:10:47,516
Speaker 1: home so that their brothers can go to school. You

174
00:10:47,596 --> 00:10:52,196
Speaker 1: still have young girls being married off when they're literally children.

175
00:10:52,836 --> 00:10:55,876
Speaker 1: So when you have a society which doesn't value a

176
00:10:55,916 --> 00:10:58,796
Speaker 1: woman's life, when you have a society which thinks that

177
00:10:58,876 --> 00:11:02,796
Speaker 1: women are expendable, then honor killings will of course take

178
00:11:02,876 --> 00:11:05,996
Speaker 1: root in that kind of a society. And you can

179
00:11:06,036 --> 00:11:09,596
Speaker 1: make as many laws as possible, But unless you address

180
00:11:09,196 --> 00:11:13,476
Speaker 1: the issue of how men see women and how women

181
00:11:13,516 --> 00:11:16,956
Speaker 1: see themselves, women have to see that they too can

182
00:11:16,996 --> 00:11:19,316
Speaker 1: fight back, that they too have a voice, that they

183
00:11:19,356 --> 00:11:23,116
Speaker 1: too have the courage to stand up and be part

184
00:11:23,156 --> 00:11:27,516
Speaker 1: of a movement that makes them feel that they are worthwhile,

185
00:11:27,556 --> 00:11:31,316
Speaker 1: that they're not expendable. So many women in Pakistan do

186
00:11:31,356 --> 00:11:34,236
Speaker 1: not report violence because they think that nothing is going

187
00:11:34,276 --> 00:11:38,036
Speaker 1: to happen if they report it. That mindset has to change,

188
00:11:38,956 --> 00:11:41,596
Speaker 1: and in order to do that, you have to change

189
00:11:42,316 --> 00:11:45,916
Speaker 1: popular culture. You have to invest yourself on the grassroots

190
00:11:45,956 --> 00:11:50,036
Speaker 1: in order to bring about a change in thinking. And

191
00:11:50,476 --> 00:11:53,076
Speaker 1: it's great that we have laws now that protect women,

192
00:11:53,396 --> 00:11:55,796
Speaker 1: but the people who implement those laws need to know

193
00:11:55,836 --> 00:11:58,236
Speaker 1: about them, and more and more men need to be

194
00:11:58,276 --> 00:12:00,716
Speaker 1: sent to prison so that they can be made examples

195
00:12:00,716 --> 00:12:03,516
Speaker 1: of If a man kills a woman in a town

196
00:12:03,916 --> 00:12:06,476
Speaker 1: and the neighbors know about it, that he's not gone

197
00:12:06,476 --> 00:12:09,276
Speaker 1: to jail, there'll be other men who will feel embolded

198
00:12:09,316 --> 00:12:11,596
Speaker 1: to carry on in his footsteps because they know that

199
00:12:11,636 --> 00:12:15,436
Speaker 1: this is not a crime punishable by law. So what

200
00:12:15,516 --> 00:12:18,236
Speaker 1: are some things that can be done to actually reduce

201
00:12:18,356 --> 00:12:22,196
Speaker 1: this level of threat towards women. I think change does

202
00:12:22,276 --> 00:12:26,396
Speaker 1: not come overnight, and it takes a long time. When

203
00:12:26,436 --> 00:12:30,396
Speaker 1: women are empowered, when they're educated, when they know their rights,

204
00:12:30,796 --> 00:12:34,236
Speaker 1: they have a voice and can fight back. And now

205
00:12:34,276 --> 00:12:37,396
Speaker 1: you find that more and more women are choosing to

206
00:12:37,436 --> 00:12:39,956
Speaker 1: do that. They are choosing to stand up both online

207
00:12:39,956 --> 00:12:43,036
Speaker 1: and offline, to ask for their rights. They are choosing

208
00:12:43,036 --> 00:12:46,596
Speaker 1: to say that no, this will not happen under my watch.

209
00:12:46,836 --> 00:12:49,716
Speaker 1: I do not agree with this. They're making themselves more

210
00:12:49,716 --> 00:12:53,396
Speaker 1: aware of their potential and what they can go forward

211
00:12:53,436 --> 00:12:58,076
Speaker 1: and do. It's not going to happen overnight, but film

212
00:12:58,356 --> 00:13:01,916
Speaker 1: will play a pivotal role in the way women see

213
00:13:01,916 --> 00:13:06,596
Speaker 1: their potential. Television in Pakistan the mobile phone, which has

214
00:13:06,636 --> 00:13:11,196
Speaker 1: streaming films and televison shows. More and more women have

215
00:13:11,276 --> 00:13:13,876
Speaker 1: access to that now and they've a window to the

216
00:13:13,916 --> 00:13:17,716
Speaker 1: outside world, and that is really helping the way they

217
00:13:17,756 --> 00:13:22,356
Speaker 1: see themselves. The Internet is an equalizer and it's allowing women,

218
00:13:22,916 --> 00:13:25,356
Speaker 1: even in small towns and villagers, to have conversations with

219
00:13:25,396 --> 00:13:28,556
Speaker 1: other women about what's happening in their homes, what's happening

220
00:13:28,556 --> 00:13:31,836
Speaker 1: around them, asking for advice on what to do, on

221
00:13:32,676 --> 00:13:36,356
Speaker 1: how to get out of a situation. Facebook groups are starting,

222
00:13:36,996 --> 00:13:39,756
Speaker 1: chat rooms are starting where women are conversing with each

223
00:13:39,796 --> 00:13:43,356
Speaker 1: other and that has never happened before. And it's going

224
00:13:43,396 --> 00:13:45,756
Speaker 1: to be a while before you see the reduction in numbers,

225
00:13:45,876 --> 00:13:48,436
Speaker 1: but I think that we've taken a first, very important

226
00:13:48,476 --> 00:13:52,396
Speaker 1: step in getting women aware that they can fight back.

227
00:13:53,276 --> 00:13:57,156
Speaker 1: One really amazing thing that you do is these mobile

228
00:13:57,196 --> 00:14:00,156
Speaker 1: cinemas you set up. Tell me about the process of

229
00:14:00,316 --> 00:14:03,436
Speaker 1: putting together these mobile cinemas and the impact they've had.

230
00:14:03,676 --> 00:14:07,036
Speaker 1: I've been making films for well over two decades, and

231
00:14:07,196 --> 00:14:09,836
Speaker 1: I began to think a few years ago about who

232
00:14:09,876 --> 00:14:13,116
Speaker 1: was watching these films. Were the people who needed to

233
00:14:13,156 --> 00:14:16,196
Speaker 1: watch it the most? Did they have access to these films?

234
00:14:16,436 --> 00:14:20,476
Speaker 1: Would they understand those are the people that needed to

235
00:14:20,716 --> 00:14:24,436
Speaker 1: watch these women champions? They were the people who needed

236
00:14:24,476 --> 00:14:27,876
Speaker 1: to watch men championing women in these films. And so

237
00:14:27,956 --> 00:14:30,596
Speaker 1: how would I be able to get into towns and

238
00:14:30,796 --> 00:14:34,436
Speaker 1: villagers to host screenings and take my work there and

239
00:14:34,476 --> 00:14:38,516
Speaker 1: take the work of other filmmakers there. And after months

240
00:14:38,516 --> 00:14:42,076
Speaker 1: of brainstorming, we came up with designing a mobile cinema,

241
00:14:42,196 --> 00:14:45,596
Speaker 1: a large truck that's outfitted with the screen that lights

242
00:14:45,676 --> 00:14:49,236
Speaker 1: up the night sky and brings people out together in

243
00:14:49,276 --> 00:14:53,636
Speaker 1: the evenings to watch content together and to have discussions

244
00:14:53,676 --> 00:14:58,076
Speaker 1: around it. But Pakistan is a country where you know,

245
00:14:58,116 --> 00:15:00,156
Speaker 1: in some areas men and women can sit down and

246
00:15:00,156 --> 00:15:02,756
Speaker 1: watch films together, but in other areas they cannot. And

247
00:15:02,836 --> 00:15:06,076
Speaker 1: so inside the truck we outfitted it with seats and

248
00:15:06,196 --> 00:15:10,156
Speaker 1: another screen so that if we were a screening in

249
00:15:10,196 --> 00:15:13,556
Speaker 1: a conservative area, women could actually watch inside the truck

250
00:15:13,796 --> 00:15:16,396
Speaker 1: while the men could be watching outside and we could

251
00:15:16,396 --> 00:15:20,276
Speaker 1: be showing two totally different films to two totally different audiences.

252
00:15:20,716 --> 00:15:23,996
Speaker 1: And over the last two years, my mobile cinema has

253
00:15:24,036 --> 00:15:29,236
Speaker 1: gone to over four hundred locations across Pakistan and we've

254
00:15:29,276 --> 00:15:34,476
Speaker 1: had incredible feedback from the communities that we've been showing

255
00:15:34,476 --> 00:15:37,316
Speaker 1: the films in. We've been invited back again and again,

256
00:15:37,836 --> 00:15:40,436
Speaker 1: and even in communities where there's been a pushback where

257
00:15:40,436 --> 00:15:42,156
Speaker 1: they have said that we don't want our women to

258
00:15:42,236 --> 00:15:45,516
Speaker 1: watch these films because we don't want them to know

259
00:15:45,556 --> 00:15:48,716
Speaker 1: about their rights, there have been other people who've stepped

260
00:15:48,756 --> 00:15:51,396
Speaker 1: up and said no, it's important to educate our women

261
00:15:51,396 --> 00:15:55,236
Speaker 1: and our children and even our men. And we found

262
00:15:55,276 --> 00:15:58,116
Speaker 1: that one mobile cinema is not enough. That we need

263
00:15:58,196 --> 00:16:01,916
Speaker 1: dozens of these cinemas across the country because people are

264
00:16:01,956 --> 00:16:06,476
Speaker 1: beginning to realize that these vehicles open up the entire

265
00:16:06,516 --> 00:16:09,716
Speaker 1: world to them. So, when you're in those situations where

266
00:16:09,756 --> 00:16:12,956
Speaker 1: you know men are pushing back against the mobile cinemas

267
00:16:12,996 --> 00:16:17,076
Speaker 1: and the information you're giving to women about their rights

268
00:16:17,076 --> 00:16:20,676
Speaker 1: and their value, how do you address that. I've always

269
00:16:20,676 --> 00:16:23,756
Speaker 1: found that communities have to accept you in order for

270
00:16:23,836 --> 00:16:27,076
Speaker 1: you to bring change, in order for you to introduce

271
00:16:27,196 --> 00:16:29,316
Speaker 1: films in order for you to bring the mobile cinema.

272
00:16:29,396 --> 00:16:32,116
Speaker 1: And so when a community decides that they don't want

273
00:16:32,196 --> 00:16:36,716
Speaker 1: us there, we try and work with partners, nonprofits that

274
00:16:36,756 --> 00:16:40,036
Speaker 1: may have worked in that community before, or a community

275
00:16:40,116 --> 00:16:43,036
Speaker 1: leader that might be more open to us coming in,

276
00:16:43,316 --> 00:16:48,276
Speaker 1: and we use that vehicle to get into that community.

277
00:16:48,356 --> 00:16:53,116
Speaker 1: So we have had, you know, situations where the team

278
00:16:53,116 --> 00:16:55,636
Speaker 1: has been asked to leave, but other people have stepped

279
00:16:55,676 --> 00:16:58,716
Speaker 1: in and said, let's screen, or we've been asked to

280
00:16:58,796 --> 00:17:00,836
Speaker 1: leave and we've left that day, you know, to fight

281
00:17:00,876 --> 00:17:03,956
Speaker 1: the battle another day. The idea is to make the

282
00:17:03,996 --> 00:17:07,756
Speaker 1: community comfortable, to make them understand that what we're doing

283
00:17:07,756 --> 00:17:12,436
Speaker 1: will benefit the children because we're showing them films about

284
00:17:12,596 --> 00:17:16,116
Speaker 1: how to become a firefighter, or what the world looks

285
00:17:16,156 --> 00:17:19,716
Speaker 1: like outside their tiny village. We're showing them films that

286
00:17:20,076 --> 00:17:25,596
Speaker 1: talk about rights and equality, about climate change, about science,

287
00:17:25,676 --> 00:17:29,316
Speaker 1: about travel, films that they wouldn't normally watch. And so

288
00:17:29,596 --> 00:17:31,676
Speaker 1: some of these ideas are new to them and ideas

289
00:17:31,716 --> 00:17:34,636
Speaker 1: that they're afraid of. But if you spend enough time

290
00:17:34,676 --> 00:17:37,836
Speaker 1: with them, you convince a few people in the community

291
00:17:38,276 --> 00:17:42,516
Speaker 1: that matter. In the community. The mobile cinema is eventually

292
00:17:42,596 --> 00:17:46,796
Speaker 1: always allowed back in. Do you plan out discussions or

293
00:17:47,236 --> 00:17:50,356
Speaker 1: do you sort of let them happen naturally. I have

294
00:17:50,516 --> 00:17:54,076
Speaker 1: this wonderful team of young men actually who travel with

295
00:17:54,116 --> 00:17:57,796
Speaker 1: the Mobile Cinema and who are committed to going from

296
00:17:57,836 --> 00:18:00,796
Speaker 1: town to town and village to village. They carry with

297
00:18:00,876 --> 00:18:03,676
Speaker 1: them these feedback forms that are designed so that they

298
00:18:03,716 --> 00:18:06,956
Speaker 1: can ask the participants who have been their random sampling

299
00:18:06,956 --> 00:18:10,076
Speaker 1: of them, you know, about the content that they've seen,

300
00:18:10,276 --> 00:18:13,476
Speaker 1: about some of the messaging in the films, about the

301
00:18:13,516 --> 00:18:16,236
Speaker 1: way they see the world. And we use these feedback

302
00:18:16,316 --> 00:18:19,676
Speaker 1: forms and collate the data from it to see and

303
00:18:19,796 --> 00:18:24,956
Speaker 1: track what content has resonated with the participants and the people,

304
00:18:25,356 --> 00:18:28,436
Speaker 1: what films have opened up their eyes, which films may

305
00:18:28,476 --> 00:18:31,396
Speaker 1: have not had the same impact that we thought that

306
00:18:31,436 --> 00:18:33,756
Speaker 1: they would. It's you know, it's for us. It's a

307
00:18:33,836 --> 00:18:37,276
Speaker 1: learning mechanism as well. It's not something that we have

308
00:18:37,956 --> 00:18:41,276
Speaker 1: you know known, you know, this is uncharted territory for

309
00:18:41,356 --> 00:18:44,596
Speaker 1: us as well. We're learning as we go along. We're

310
00:18:44,636 --> 00:18:48,676
Speaker 1: creating films as we go along, We're changing the feedback

311
00:18:48,716 --> 00:18:52,476
Speaker 1: forms as we go along, and so with each screening

312
00:18:52,476 --> 00:18:55,076
Speaker 1: we learned something new. Initially, it was hard for us

313
00:18:55,116 --> 00:18:57,236
Speaker 1: to screen for women. You know, we wanted to get

314
00:18:57,236 --> 00:18:58,916
Speaker 1: into the community and screen for the men and the

315
00:18:58,996 --> 00:19:02,396
Speaker 1: children first gain their trust, then ask the women in

316
00:19:02,436 --> 00:19:05,316
Speaker 1: the community to come out and watch the films. You know,

317
00:19:05,396 --> 00:19:08,796
Speaker 1: I live in work in Pakistan. My end game is forever,

318
00:19:09,756 --> 00:19:12,876
Speaker 1: and so I need to make sure that I build bridges,

319
00:19:13,676 --> 00:19:17,036
Speaker 1: that I work with communities that trust me and my team,

320
00:19:17,396 --> 00:19:20,076
Speaker 1: and that's very important to do. So. I found the

321
00:19:20,116 --> 00:19:23,956
Speaker 1: guides that you made really informative. You created fourteen of them.

322
00:19:24,196 --> 00:19:26,956
Speaker 1: How did you decide which topics to choose? When we

323
00:19:26,996 --> 00:19:30,356
Speaker 1: began to think about agahi, which means awareness the series

324
00:19:30,396 --> 00:19:32,396
Speaker 1: as a whole, we wanted to start from the basic

325
00:19:32,436 --> 00:19:35,476
Speaker 1: to the most complex, and so our very first video

326
00:19:35,636 --> 00:19:38,676
Speaker 1: was how to file a police report, and then we

327
00:19:38,716 --> 00:19:43,996
Speaker 1: began to think about other topics domestic violence, inheritance, acid violence,

328
00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:49,716
Speaker 1: honor killing, sexual harassment, and each video was building upon

329
00:19:49,916 --> 00:19:53,276
Speaker 1: the previous video. We wanted to introduce different facets to women,

330
00:19:53,476 --> 00:19:57,076
Speaker 1: and it's an ongoing project. While we've created fourteen films,

331
00:19:57,276 --> 00:20:01,916
Speaker 1: we're looking at other topics that women may want help about,

332
00:20:02,316 --> 00:20:05,836
Speaker 1: may not have clarity about, and it is important for

333
00:20:05,996 --> 00:20:08,836
Speaker 1: women to know what their legal rights are. So at

334
00:20:08,956 --> 00:20:11,356
Speaker 1: least that they're aware of their legal rights and where

335
00:20:11,396 --> 00:20:13,156
Speaker 1: they can go to get help if they need to.

336
00:20:13,476 --> 00:20:16,756
Speaker 1: And that series has been distributed for free across the country,

337
00:20:17,796 --> 00:20:20,596
Speaker 1: and we're showing those films two other young women because

338
00:20:20,636 --> 00:20:24,276
Speaker 1: young women need to see themselves reflected on screen. They

339
00:20:24,316 --> 00:20:27,356
Speaker 1: need to see their potential. They need to know that

340
00:20:27,396 --> 00:20:29,956
Speaker 1: other women have done this so I too can do this,

341
00:20:30,676 --> 00:20:34,716
Speaker 1: and that is very important. We've also made the videos

342
00:20:34,716 --> 00:20:37,316
Speaker 1: such that if women are not literate, they just have

343
00:20:37,396 --> 00:20:40,836
Speaker 1: to hear something and take things away from it. The

344
00:20:40,916 --> 00:20:45,076
Speaker 1: films have been screening across the country in schools and colleges,

345
00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:49,036
Speaker 1: and earlier this year, at a women's march to mark

346
00:20:49,276 --> 00:20:52,556
Speaker 1: International Women's Day in Karachi, a young woman came up

347
00:20:52,556 --> 00:20:55,476
Speaker 1: to me and said that a video that we had

348
00:20:55,556 --> 00:21:00,236
Speaker 1: done about domestic violence had saved her life and that

349
00:21:01,916 --> 00:21:04,276
Speaker 1: she had finally known that she could go and ask

350
00:21:04,316 --> 00:21:09,396
Speaker 1: for divorce. And that's what we're hoping to do, just

351
00:21:09,436 --> 00:21:12,396
Speaker 1: hoping to use these films to educate women so that

352
00:21:12,436 --> 00:21:15,356
Speaker 1: they can understand what their way out is, what their

353
00:21:15,436 --> 00:21:18,596
Speaker 1: rights are, what they can do. So many young women

354
00:21:18,636 --> 00:21:20,596
Speaker 1: that we've shown the film too had no idea what

355
00:21:20,636 --> 00:21:25,116
Speaker 1: their marriage contract is about In Pakistan, when you sign

356
00:21:25,596 --> 00:21:29,196
Speaker 1: your marriage certificate, at most times the right of divorce

357
00:21:29,356 --> 00:21:32,236
Speaker 1: is scratched out and taken away from a woman, which

358
00:21:32,396 --> 00:21:36,076
Speaker 1: is actually against the law. And so when we made

359
00:21:36,076 --> 00:21:39,556
Speaker 1: a film about the rights of marriage, we made sure

360
00:21:39,596 --> 00:21:43,076
Speaker 1: to tell women that when they sign their marriage certificate

361
00:21:43,076 --> 00:21:46,396
Speaker 1: that they should retain the right to divorce. And most

362
00:21:46,436 --> 00:21:48,196
Speaker 1: women have thought that they didn't even have the right

363
00:21:48,236 --> 00:21:50,756
Speaker 1: to divorce or that it was automatically taken away from them.

364
00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:55,156
Speaker 1: And so educating young girls, especially about these things will

365
00:21:55,236 --> 00:21:58,996
Speaker 1: change the way they see themselves and the way they

366
00:21:59,076 --> 00:22:02,676
Speaker 1: interact with people around them. So what are some takeaways

367
00:22:02,676 --> 00:22:05,396
Speaker 1: of things that listeners can do. I would love to

368
00:22:05,476 --> 00:22:11,996
Speaker 1: replicate the mobile cinema, both in Pakistan but also outside

369
00:22:11,996 --> 00:22:15,836
Speaker 1: of Pakistan. So if anybody has a community an area

370
00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:18,676
Speaker 1: where they think that the mobile cinemas needed, I would

371
00:22:18,796 --> 00:22:22,276
Speaker 1: love to bring the idea, the blueprint and transfer that

372
00:22:22,396 --> 00:22:24,196
Speaker 1: to them. And I think that that would be a

373
00:22:24,236 --> 00:22:28,276
Speaker 1: wonderful way to take our learnings and to take that

374
00:22:28,316 --> 00:22:31,996
Speaker 1: to other places. I would love people to watch my

375
00:22:32,076 --> 00:22:35,076
Speaker 1: films and share the messages of the films and the

376
00:22:35,116 --> 00:22:37,076
Speaker 1: stories that come out of it. But there's so many

377
00:22:37,076 --> 00:22:40,316
Speaker 1: other activists around the world, including Pakistan, who are pushing

378
00:22:40,316 --> 00:22:45,316
Speaker 1: the envelope and learn about their work. Learn about the

379
00:22:45,356 --> 00:22:50,516
Speaker 1: work of Rakshandanas who is changing child marriage in Pakistan.

380
00:22:51,196 --> 00:22:54,996
Speaker 1: Learn the work about Summer Manella who's working on issues

381
00:22:55,076 --> 00:22:59,876
Speaker 1: about the girl child Malala and the work that she's

382
00:22:59,916 --> 00:23:04,436
Speaker 1: doing on girl's education, and the bassamad Nan who's working

383
00:23:04,436 --> 00:23:08,636
Speaker 1: on domestic violence and women in Pakistan in the northern areas.

384
00:23:09,836 --> 00:23:12,636
Speaker 1: Another takeaway that I would love people to go with

385
00:23:13,156 --> 00:23:17,036
Speaker 1: is that never underestimate the power of cinema and the

386
00:23:17,076 --> 00:23:20,356
Speaker 1: way it can change the way children see the world.

387
00:23:20,796 --> 00:23:23,916
Speaker 1: So take films out into communities, take them to a

388
00:23:23,956 --> 00:23:26,956
Speaker 1: local school which is less privileged, take them to a

389
00:23:26,956 --> 00:23:30,196
Speaker 1: community center, spend time with the children, show them films

390
00:23:30,236 --> 00:23:32,396
Speaker 1: that will open up their minds and their ideas to

391
00:23:32,436 --> 00:23:35,276
Speaker 1: the potential of the world. Because I've seen in my

392
00:23:35,316 --> 00:23:38,476
Speaker 1: own life and in my own career how that has happened,

393
00:23:39,356 --> 00:23:42,876
Speaker 1: and it can change the way the entire world works.

394
00:23:44,556 --> 00:23:49,276
Speaker 1: Charmaine obeyed Tony and her incredible work making and distributing

395
00:23:49,396 --> 00:23:52,596
Speaker 1: life changing films, and if you missed it before, as

396
00:23:52,596 --> 00:23:55,756
Speaker 1: she said, you can see and share her work yourself.

397
00:23:56,156 --> 00:24:00,076
Speaker 1: As well as other brilliant communicators working in the same area.

398
00:24:00,796 --> 00:24:03,676
Speaker 1: Her Mobile Cinema has toured some of the most remote

399
00:24:03,756 --> 00:24:08,356
Speaker 1: and poverty stricten regions of Pakistan, with particular focus on

400
00:24:08,516 --> 00:24:14,236
Speaker 1: accessing conflict prone regions and the most vulnerable communities. The

401
00:24:14,356 --> 00:24:17,316
Speaker 1: main ambition of the Mobile Cinema project was to spark

402
00:24:17,356 --> 00:24:22,756
Speaker 1: conversations questioning pre existing social norms and policies and the

403
00:24:22,836 --> 00:24:28,716
Speaker 1: supporting environment while spreading a message of hope, peace and tolerance. Well,

404
00:24:28,756 --> 00:24:30,796
Speaker 1: the proof is in the pudding. I hope you say

405
00:24:30,836 --> 00:24:34,116
Speaker 1: that expression in America. What I mean is her team

406
00:24:34,356 --> 00:24:37,956
Speaker 1: have recently heard from organizers in Bangladesh and also in

407
00:24:38,036 --> 00:24:41,316
Speaker 1: Syria who are hoping to bring the mobile Cinema there,

408
00:24:41,636 --> 00:24:44,516
Speaker 1: and they've begun to plan how best to do just that.

409
00:24:46,156 --> 00:24:50,916
Speaker 1: Solvable is a collaboration between Pushkin Industries and the Rockefella Foundation,

410
00:24:51,036 --> 00:24:55,076
Speaker 1: with production by Laura Hyde, Hester Kant, Laura Sheeter, and

411
00:24:55,196 --> 00:24:59,036
Speaker 1: Ruth Barnes from Chalk and Blade. Pushkin's executive producer is

412
00:24:59,116 --> 00:25:04,076
Speaker 1: Neia LaBelle, Research by Sheer, Vincent, engineering by Jason Gambrel

413
00:25:04,156 --> 00:25:08,596
Speaker 1: and the great folks at GSI Studios. Original music composed

414
00:25:08,596 --> 00:25:12,796
Speaker 1: by pass Wise and special thanks to Maggie Taylor, Heather Fine,

415
00:25:12,956 --> 00:25:17,756
Speaker 1: Julia Barton, Carl Migliori, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm Gladwell. You

416
00:25:17,796 --> 00:25:21,876
Speaker 1: can learn more about solving today's biggest problems at Rockefeller

417
00:25:21,956 --> 00:25:26,916
Speaker 1: Foundation dot org slash solvable. I'm Mave Higgins, now got

418
00:25:26,956 --> 00:25:27,396
Speaker 1: solverle