1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:22,716 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Yeah. No, no, no, it was much more like 2 00:00:23,116 --> 00:00:30,516 Speaker 1: terrified than that. I'm going through my sound effects library 3 00:00:30,636 --> 00:00:33,436 Speaker 1: with my friend and producer Ryan Dilly. I'm trying to 4 00:00:33,476 --> 00:00:36,996 Speaker 1: find a very specific scream, one that's forever etched into 5 00:00:37,036 --> 00:00:41,836 Speaker 1: my memory. No, that's like way more of a manly, 6 00:00:41,916 --> 00:00:44,516 Speaker 1: brave scream. I think we needed more high pitched and 7 00:00:44,756 --> 00:00:47,916 Speaker 1: frantic and fearful. We're trying to reenact a rather horrifying 8 00:00:47,996 --> 00:00:50,556 Speaker 1: moment that Ryan and I experienced a few months back. 9 00:00:51,196 --> 00:00:53,876 Speaker 1: We were working on our podcast scripts and Ryan needed 10 00:00:53,916 --> 00:00:56,276 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee, so he headed into the kitchen, 11 00:00:56,716 --> 00:01:04,076 Speaker 1: and that was when I heard it. I think that's 12 00:01:04,276 --> 00:01:07,156 Speaker 1: that's pretty close. I think that was it. Ryan emitted 13 00:01:07,156 --> 00:01:10,756 Speaker 1: the longest, loudest, and most terror filled shriek I've ever heard. 14 00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:15,156 Speaker 1: Apparently a huge, terrifying rat had run through the kitchen, 15 00:01:15,596 --> 00:01:18,636 Speaker 1: a rodent that was, at least, according to Ryan's retelling, 16 00:01:18,796 --> 00:01:21,036 Speaker 1: about the size of a large Great Dane or a 17 00:01:21,076 --> 00:01:24,556 Speaker 1: small horse. I assumed he was exaggerating and that it 18 00:01:24,596 --> 00:01:27,316 Speaker 1: was probably just a harmless mouse, the kind we get 19 00:01:27,356 --> 00:01:30,396 Speaker 1: on college campuses from time to time, especially when there's 20 00:01:30,436 --> 00:01:34,236 Speaker 1: construction outside. A tiny mouse that was probably now feeling 21 00:01:34,316 --> 00:01:37,636 Speaker 1: so terrorized by Ryan's scream that it had likely high 22 00:01:37,636 --> 00:01:39,556 Speaker 1: tailed it out of the house, never to be heard 23 00:01:39,556 --> 00:01:42,556 Speaker 1: from again. But just as I was explaining that we 24 00:01:42,596 --> 00:01:48,476 Speaker 1: had absolutely nothing to worry about, the creature that I 25 00:01:48,476 --> 00:01:51,276 Speaker 1: could now clearly see was definitely not a tiny mouse 26 00:01:51,676 --> 00:01:55,116 Speaker 1: was back. It raced from the kitchen into the study 27 00:01:55,276 --> 00:01:58,196 Speaker 1: around our feet, and then slithered into a heating duct 28 00:01:58,196 --> 00:02:01,396 Speaker 1: on the wall. But I wasn't worried, not because the 29 00:02:01,516 --> 00:02:05,396 Speaker 1: rat wasn't huge or terrifying. It was definitely both. I 30 00:02:05,476 --> 00:02:07,196 Speaker 1: just knew it wasn't going to be a problem for 31 00:02:07,236 --> 00:02:10,436 Speaker 1: long because at Yale, when these things happen and you 32 00:02:10,476 --> 00:02:13,276 Speaker 1: need someone to resolve the issue quickly, you just call 33 00:02:13,676 --> 00:02:18,076 Speaker 1: Marty gilorin pest control operator. Marty is like the terminator 34 00:02:18,076 --> 00:02:21,396 Speaker 1: for vermin. Within minutes, he was at my house, armed 35 00:02:21,396 --> 00:02:24,316 Speaker 1: with baits and traps galore. I like to get there 36 00:02:24,516 --> 00:02:26,316 Speaker 1: as soon as I can to help people. Yeah, I 37 00:02:26,316 --> 00:02:28,596 Speaker 1: don't like to leave, you know, call's waiting too long. 38 00:02:28,636 --> 00:02:31,156 Speaker 1: And that was kind of an emergency call because it 39 00:02:31,196 --> 00:02:34,156 Speaker 1: was a rat in a living space. While Ryan continued 40 00:02:34,196 --> 00:02:36,916 Speaker 1: to stand bravely on the sofa, Marty was sprawled on 41 00:02:36,956 --> 00:02:39,356 Speaker 1: the floor. He checked for the rat where we last 42 00:02:39,356 --> 00:02:42,436 Speaker 1: saw it, face pressed up against the air duct. Marty 43 00:02:42,516 --> 00:02:45,036 Speaker 1: then set his traps like a general deploying his armies. 44 00:02:45,436 --> 00:02:48,916 Speaker 1: He strategized about all aspects of the rats moves, like 45 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:51,516 Speaker 1: what if the rat retreated here or made a break 46 00:02:51,556 --> 00:02:54,916 Speaker 1: for it over there. Within minutes, all the traps were down, 47 00:02:55,556 --> 00:02:59,876 Speaker 1: and almost as soon as Marty left, we heard, oh, 48 00:02:59,916 --> 00:03:02,756 Speaker 1: I got lucky on that one. Sometimes it takes a 49 00:03:02,796 --> 00:03:06,356 Speaker 1: lot longer. Marty is a vermin afficionado, one of the 50 00:03:06,356 --> 00:03:10,316 Speaker 1: most skilled professionals I've ever met, But few people want 51 00:03:10,316 --> 00:03:13,596 Speaker 1: a job like Marty's. In fact, pest control is usually 52 00:03:13,676 --> 00:03:17,076 Speaker 1: included in lists of the worst possible jobs in America. 53 00:03:17,276 --> 00:03:21,196 Speaker 1: Some exterminators face low wages, deal with dangerous chemicals, and 54 00:03:21,276 --> 00:03:23,836 Speaker 1: spend their working hours in the company of scary critters 55 00:03:23,876 --> 00:03:27,036 Speaker 1: that can bite, scratch, and sting. I usually get stung 56 00:03:27,076 --> 00:03:30,156 Speaker 1: about once a year. Kind of just comes with the territory. 57 00:03:30,356 --> 00:03:32,876 Speaker 1: But Marty, it turns out, is the exact kind of 58 00:03:32,916 --> 00:03:35,076 Speaker 1: person we should emulate if we want to find the 59 00:03:35,076 --> 00:03:39,636 Speaker 1: perfect job, or even just to be happier at work. Generally, because, 60 00:03:39,636 --> 00:03:42,476 Speaker 1: as you'll hear in this episode, science suggests that our 61 00:03:42,516 --> 00:03:45,556 Speaker 1: intuitions about good jobs and bad jobs are all wrong. 62 00:03:46,356 --> 00:03:48,996 Speaker 1: We think that pay and perks and plush offices are 63 00:03:49,036 --> 00:03:52,316 Speaker 1: what makes us happy in our careers. But as we'll see, 64 00:03:52,516 --> 00:03:56,356 Speaker 1: happiness and human motivation work much differently than our lying 65 00:03:56,396 --> 00:04:01,916 Speaker 1: minds realize. Our minds are constantly telling us what to 66 00:04:01,916 --> 00:04:04,276 Speaker 1: do to be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? 67 00:04:04,716 --> 00:04:06,996 Speaker 1: What if our minds are lying to us, leading us 68 00:04:07,036 --> 00:04:10,076 Speaker 1: away from what will really make us happy. The good 69 00:04:10,076 --> 00:04:12,636 Speaker 1: news is that understanding the science of the mind can 70 00:04:12,716 --> 00:04:15,716 Speaker 1: point us all back in the right direction. You're listening 71 00:04:15,796 --> 00:04:24,276 Speaker 1: to the Happiness Lab with doctor Laurie Santos. What did 72 00:04:24,356 --> 00:04:26,156 Speaker 1: you want to be when you grew up? I'm going 73 00:04:26,196 --> 00:04:29,116 Speaker 1: to venture a guest that rat exterminator was pretty far 74 00:04:29,196 --> 00:04:32,476 Speaker 1: down the list. It was for Marty two. He grew 75 00:04:32,516 --> 00:04:35,916 Speaker 1: up with the standard career aspirations. I mean, like every kid, 76 00:04:35,956 --> 00:04:39,316 Speaker 1: I guess a fireman or a cop or when you're 77 00:04:39,316 --> 00:04:42,236 Speaker 1: a kid. But Marty never joined the police department or 78 00:04:42,276 --> 00:04:46,156 Speaker 1: signed on at the fire station. After graduating, he drifted 79 00:04:46,156 --> 00:04:49,396 Speaker 1: into a number of different jobs, just like restaurant work 80 00:04:49,476 --> 00:04:53,436 Speaker 1: and security guard and filling vending machines. Things like that. 81 00:04:53,836 --> 00:04:56,756 Speaker 1: They all paid okay, but Marty wasn't exactly filled with 82 00:04:56,836 --> 00:04:59,516 Speaker 1: joy when he clocked in every Monday morning, and he 83 00:04:59,556 --> 00:05:03,476 Speaker 1: wasn't alone. According to a recent Gallop Pole from twenty eighteen, 84 00:05:04,116 --> 00:05:07,276 Speaker 1: only about a third of American workers report feeling really 85 00:05:07,316 --> 00:05:11,316 Speaker 1: engaged with their jobs. Over fifty percent admit feeling actively 86 00:05:11,356 --> 00:05:14,676 Speaker 1: not engaged, they merely put up with boring work, and 87 00:05:14,796 --> 00:05:17,756 Speaker 1: nearly twenty percent report hating what they do for a living. 88 00:05:17,916 --> 00:05:20,676 Speaker 1: I've had jobs where I've had that problem before. I 89 00:05:20,716 --> 00:05:22,316 Speaker 1: have to go to work. This is not good. It's 90 00:05:22,356 --> 00:05:25,996 Speaker 1: Monday morning. It's probably not all that surprising, but hating 91 00:05:25,996 --> 00:05:29,076 Speaker 1: your job isn't that great for your happiness? Which raises 92 00:05:29,076 --> 00:05:32,516 Speaker 1: an important question, what actually makes for a happier job? 93 00:05:33,236 --> 00:05:35,436 Speaker 1: What could make work life better for the nearly one 94 00:05:35,516 --> 00:05:39,916 Speaker 1: hundred million Americans who feel disengaged on the job. Many 95 00:05:39,956 --> 00:05:42,796 Speaker 1: of us have a pretty strong intuition here, we'd be 96 00:05:42,836 --> 00:05:45,996 Speaker 1: happier if only we had a bigger salary. Take one 97 00:05:46,036 --> 00:05:50,316 Speaker 1: LinkedIn survey from twenty fourteen. It found that financial compensation 98 00:05:50,636 --> 00:05:53,236 Speaker 1: was the top value that most college students look for 99 00:05:53,476 --> 00:05:57,636 Speaker 1: when considering a new job opportunity. Compensation was chosen more 100 00:05:57,676 --> 00:06:01,396 Speaker 1: often than work life balance, having good colleagues, or even 101 00:06:01,476 --> 00:06:04,836 Speaker 1: career development. And our intuition that a bigger paycheck means 102 00:06:04,836 --> 00:06:08,756 Speaker 1: a happier career isn't just affecting our job choices, It's 103 00:06:08,796 --> 00:06:11,276 Speaker 1: also affecting how we choose to live our lives. Generally. 104 00:06:12,076 --> 00:06:14,836 Speaker 1: Consider the results of one study which has surveyed the 105 00:06:14,916 --> 00:06:18,396 Speaker 1: values of incoming freshmen for the last half century. In 106 00:06:18,436 --> 00:06:21,596 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, more than eighty percent of freshmen said that 107 00:06:21,636 --> 00:06:25,196 Speaker 1: being well off financially was really important in life. It 108 00:06:25,236 --> 00:06:28,116 Speaker 1: was more important than raising a family or developing a 109 00:06:28,116 --> 00:06:31,636 Speaker 1: meaningful philosophy on life. And that's a big change compared 110 00:06:31,636 --> 00:06:35,076 Speaker 1: to the answers their parents or grandparents gave. The number 111 00:06:35,076 --> 00:06:37,916 Speaker 1: of students who think big salaries are key has gone 112 00:06:37,956 --> 00:06:41,516 Speaker 1: up dramatically since the nineteen sixties. But as our growing 113 00:06:41,556 --> 00:06:44,636 Speaker 1: intuition about a link between money and job satisfaction right, 114 00:06:45,276 --> 00:06:48,036 Speaker 1: can employers really improve the well being of the nearly 115 00:06:48,036 --> 00:06:50,676 Speaker 1: two thirds of people who hate their jobs simply by 116 00:06:50,676 --> 00:06:53,716 Speaker 1: paying them more. When you ask people what would make 117 00:06:53,716 --> 00:06:56,916 Speaker 1: their lives better or what would make their jobs better, 118 00:06:57,116 --> 00:07:00,236 Speaker 1: the first thing they point to is my life so good, 119 00:07:00,236 --> 00:07:02,556 Speaker 1: and if I only made ten percent more, it would 120 00:07:02,556 --> 00:07:06,356 Speaker 1: be perfect. This is Barry Schwartz, emeritus professor of psychology 121 00:07:06,396 --> 00:07:09,476 Speaker 1: at Swarthmore College, an author of the book Why Work 122 00:07:09,796 --> 00:07:14,436 Speaker 1: People Are Wrong. This is not the case. Money does 123 00:07:14,596 --> 00:07:17,476 Speaker 1: buy a little bit of happiness, but it doesn't buy 124 00:07:17,516 --> 00:07:20,396 Speaker 1: a lot of happiness. We covered this in an earlier 125 00:07:20,396 --> 00:07:24,036 Speaker 1: episode called The Unhappy Millionaire, but it's worth repeating here. 126 00:07:24,676 --> 00:07:27,276 Speaker 1: If you're not making a living wage, more money will 127 00:07:27,316 --> 00:07:30,596 Speaker 1: definitely improve your overall well being. But if you currently 128 00:07:30,596 --> 00:07:33,676 Speaker 1: earn a hundred thousand dollars or more a year, doubling 129 00:07:33,756 --> 00:07:36,596 Speaker 1: or even tripling your salary won't have any effect on 130 00:07:36,636 --> 00:07:40,236 Speaker 1: your emotions or your stress levels. Even the super rich 131 00:07:40,596 --> 00:07:43,916 Speaker 1: can lead sad and lonely lives. For the most part, 132 00:07:44,396 --> 00:07:46,436 Speaker 1: doing what you do in order to earn a little 133 00:07:46,436 --> 00:07:50,076 Speaker 1: bit more is putting your energy in the wrong direction, 134 00:07:50,476 --> 00:07:53,876 Speaker 1: and it can have perverse effects in that if the 135 00:07:53,956 --> 00:07:56,876 Speaker 1: amount of money you make starts to be the metric 136 00:07:57,156 --> 00:08:01,356 Speaker 1: you use to evaluate whether you're successful or not and 137 00:08:01,516 --> 00:08:04,036 Speaker 1: whether you're getting anything out of your work, it's the 138 00:08:04,076 --> 00:08:07,156 Speaker 1: wrong metric. I've seen so many of my Yale students 139 00:08:07,276 --> 00:08:11,276 Speaker 1: heading exactly this wrong direction. After graduation. They pick a 140 00:08:11,396 --> 00:08:15,076 Speaker 1: job based only on salary. Sometimes they even choose careers 141 00:08:15,156 --> 00:08:17,636 Speaker 1: they kind of know they're going to hate just because 142 00:08:17,636 --> 00:08:20,076 Speaker 1: it comes with a great paycheck, But they soon end 143 00:08:20,116 --> 00:08:23,156 Speaker 1: up experiencing what's come to be known as the golden handcuffs, 144 00:08:23,636 --> 00:08:26,276 Speaker 1: that feeling of being stuck in a high paying job 145 00:08:26,556 --> 00:08:29,836 Speaker 1: that you absolutely hate. And that's one of the reasons 146 00:08:29,836 --> 00:08:32,636 Speaker 1: that professions we often think of as good jobs, the 147 00:08:32,716 --> 00:08:36,236 Speaker 1: most prestigious ones with the highest salaries think doctor, lawyer, 148 00:08:36,276 --> 00:08:39,916 Speaker 1: Wall Street investor. The people who have these prestigious jobs 149 00:08:40,196 --> 00:08:42,676 Speaker 1: have suicide rates that are one and a half times 150 00:08:42,676 --> 00:08:47,116 Speaker 1: those of the average population. Higher paychecks are simply not 151 00:08:47,196 --> 00:08:50,316 Speaker 1: having the positive effect on our mental health that we think. 152 00:08:50,916 --> 00:08:53,956 Speaker 1: But why are our intuitions about money and job satisfaction 153 00:08:54,076 --> 00:08:56,516 Speaker 1: so messed up? How did we come to think of 154 00:08:56,556 --> 00:08:59,396 Speaker 1: more money as the answer to all our workwoes? And 155 00:08:59,476 --> 00:09:01,916 Speaker 1: if a huge paycheck doesn't make a job better than 156 00:09:01,996 --> 00:09:05,276 Speaker 1: what does. To get to the bottom of all these questions, 157 00:09:05,676 --> 00:09:07,556 Speaker 1: we need to turn back to the very critter we 158 00:09:07,556 --> 00:09:14,556 Speaker 1: started the show with, right the rat the Happiness Lab 159 00:09:14,636 --> 00:09:25,996 Speaker 1: will be back in a moment. Back in the seventeen hundreds, 160 00:09:26,036 --> 00:09:30,516 Speaker 1: a famous Scottish philosopher visited an innovative manufacturing operation a 161 00:09:30,596 --> 00:09:34,276 Speaker 1: pin factory. Now, you might not think pinmaking would require 162 00:09:34,396 --> 00:09:37,636 Speaker 1: that much innovation. I mean, at first glance, it doesn't 163 00:09:37,636 --> 00:09:40,716 Speaker 1: seem all that complicated to make a simple pin. And 164 00:09:40,796 --> 00:09:43,916 Speaker 1: we're not even talking about safety pins here, just the really, 165 00:09:43,956 --> 00:09:47,316 Speaker 1: really simple straight kind. But back in the eighteenth century, 166 00:09:47,716 --> 00:09:52,756 Speaker 1: creating each pin was tough. It took eighteen individual steps. First, 167 00:09:52,796 --> 00:09:54,716 Speaker 1: you needed to measure and clip the length of wire, 168 00:09:55,276 --> 00:09:59,996 Speaker 1: then straighten. After that, you carefully sharpened one end. Once 169 00:10:00,076 --> 00:10:02,756 Speaker 1: that point was set, you prepared the other end to 170 00:10:02,796 --> 00:10:06,356 Speaker 1: attach the head, which involved several steps like grinding the 171 00:10:06,356 --> 00:10:09,476 Speaker 1: top to make sure it was the right texture. Finally, 172 00:10:09,556 --> 00:10:12,716 Speaker 1: the pinheads needed to be affixed, and after that they 173 00:10:12,716 --> 00:10:14,996 Speaker 1: had to be placed in a perfect row onto a 174 00:10:15,036 --> 00:10:18,476 Speaker 1: little sheet of cardboard that holds them. Pin manufacturer was 175 00:10:18,556 --> 00:10:21,396 Speaker 1: a time consuming business. A worker on his own who 176 00:10:21,396 --> 00:10:24,716 Speaker 1: did all of those steps one after another would only 177 00:10:24,716 --> 00:10:27,476 Speaker 1: be able to make about twenty pins per day. But 178 00:10:27,556 --> 00:10:29,876 Speaker 1: the management of the factory figured out how to speed 179 00:10:29,916 --> 00:10:32,516 Speaker 1: things up. They broke the work up so that each 180 00:10:32,556 --> 00:10:35,836 Speaker 1: employee only did one or two steps over and over again. 181 00:10:36,636 --> 00:10:39,956 Speaker 1: It was this innovation that especially impressed that visiting philosopher, 182 00:10:40,396 --> 00:10:43,756 Speaker 1: a scholar who later became known as the father of economics. 183 00:10:44,196 --> 00:10:48,516 Speaker 1: Adam Smith. Smith began his famous book The Wealth of 184 00:10:48,596 --> 00:10:52,356 Speaker 1: Nations with a story of this humble enterprise. He realized 185 00:10:52,396 --> 00:10:55,676 Speaker 1: that the factories assembly line didn't just allow production to 186 00:10:55,716 --> 00:10:59,236 Speaker 1: go a little faster. On the day he visited, ten 187 00:10:59,316 --> 00:11:02,396 Speaker 1: workers were able to make twelve pounds of pins, so 188 00:11:02,516 --> 00:11:05,836 Speaker 1: forty eight thousand in total. That's a rate that's fifty 189 00:11:05,836 --> 00:11:09,676 Speaker 1: times faster than the traditional method. By splitting up the 190 00:11:09,676 --> 00:11:13,956 Speaker 1: complex task, Smith argued, management could create way, way way 191 00:11:13,996 --> 00:11:17,516 Speaker 1: more pins at a much, much, much lower cost, and 192 00:11:17,636 --> 00:11:20,836 Speaker 1: that meant that customers could buy pins more cheaply, and 193 00:11:20,916 --> 00:11:23,076 Speaker 1: they might even think of new ways to use pins 194 00:11:23,276 --> 00:11:26,196 Speaker 1: since they were now so cheap, which might increase the 195 00:11:26,196 --> 00:11:29,916 Speaker 1: overall market for pins, making the factory even more money. 196 00:11:30,916 --> 00:11:34,436 Speaker 1: In the end, this simple pin factory inspired Smith's principle 197 00:11:34,596 --> 00:11:37,956 Speaker 1: of the assembly line, or what he called division of labor. 198 00:11:38,876 --> 00:11:41,956 Speaker 1: It was an idea that completely changed the Industrial Revolution 199 00:11:42,516 --> 00:11:47,756 Speaker 1: and paved the way for modern capitalist manufacturing. But as 200 00:11:47,756 --> 00:11:50,836 Speaker 1: psychologist Barry Schwartz argues in his book Why We Work, 201 00:11:51,436 --> 00:11:54,396 Speaker 1: there was a big downside to division of labor, at 202 00:11:54,476 --> 00:11:57,236 Speaker 1: least for the pin workers. So you're just taking appliers 203 00:11:57,236 --> 00:11:59,636 Speaker 1: and straightening wire and handing off to the next guy. 204 00:12:00,116 --> 00:12:03,076 Speaker 1: Why would you show up at this job. There's only 205 00:12:03,116 --> 00:12:06,436 Speaker 1: one possible reason to do this work, and that's for 206 00:12:06,476 --> 00:12:09,116 Speaker 1: the paycheck. The idea that people need to get paid 207 00:12:08,796 --> 00:12:11,356 Speaker 1: in turn for their labor was central to some of 208 00:12:11,396 --> 00:12:14,596 Speaker 1: Smith's deeper ideas about human nature. His view was that 209 00:12:14,716 --> 00:12:19,036 Speaker 1: people were basically lazy, and if they didn't have to work, 210 00:12:19,476 --> 00:12:22,796 Speaker 1: they wouldn't and so the optimal life is lying on 211 00:12:22,836 --> 00:12:28,396 Speaker 1: a couch eating Doritos and watching Netflix. So how do 212 00:12:28,436 --> 00:12:30,796 Speaker 1: you get people off their asses? You have to make 213 00:12:30,836 --> 00:12:33,636 Speaker 1: it worth their while for them to do things, and 214 00:12:33,676 --> 00:12:36,516 Speaker 1: they will work as hard as you make them work 215 00:12:36,996 --> 00:12:40,716 Speaker 1: to get the payoff. What they do doesn't matter, since 216 00:12:40,756 --> 00:12:44,236 Speaker 1: they'd rather be doing nothing than something. As long as 217 00:12:44,276 --> 00:12:46,996 Speaker 1: you have the incentives right, you can get them to 218 00:12:47,076 --> 00:12:51,276 Speaker 1: do anything. Nobody likes working on an assembly line, but 219 00:12:51,436 --> 00:12:54,556 Speaker 1: Smith's point is that nobody likes doing any kind of work. 220 00:12:54,916 --> 00:12:58,476 Speaker 1: So break the work up into as efficient and meaningless 221 00:12:58,636 --> 00:13:01,156 Speaker 1: chunks as you can so that people can do the 222 00:13:01,196 --> 00:13:03,436 Speaker 1: same thing over and over and over again as fast 223 00:13:03,476 --> 00:13:05,876 Speaker 1: as possible, and as long as you pay them, they'll 224 00:13:05,916 --> 00:13:10,036 Speaker 1: do it. Smith's view of humans is lazy paychecksy pervaded 225 00:13:10,076 --> 00:13:13,396 Speaker 1: the entire Industrial Revolution, but it would take more than 226 00:13:13,436 --> 00:13:18,036 Speaker 1: a hundred years before Smith's concepts were tested scientifically, and 227 00:13:18,076 --> 00:13:25,436 Speaker 1: that's where we turned back tomble rat. Seventeen decades after 228 00:13:25,436 --> 00:13:28,116 Speaker 1: the publication of the Wealth of Nations, a bunch of 229 00:13:28,196 --> 00:13:31,396 Speaker 1: rats would finally give Smith's ideas of human nature the 230 00:13:31,516 --> 00:13:35,556 Speaker 1: scientific veneer they needed. My training as a psychologist began 231 00:13:36,196 --> 00:13:39,756 Speaker 1: in the framework developed by a guy named BF Skinner, 232 00:13:40,396 --> 00:13:44,196 Speaker 1: who at the time was probably the most famous and 233 00:13:44,276 --> 00:13:50,756 Speaker 1: most influential living psychologists. Skinner invented the famous Skinner box, 234 00:13:50,996 --> 00:13:52,796 Speaker 1: where you would take a rat and put them in 235 00:13:52,836 --> 00:13:55,556 Speaker 1: a box, and they'd be hungry and or thirsty, and 236 00:13:55,596 --> 00:13:57,756 Speaker 1: they'd run down on an alley, or they'd push on 237 00:13:57,796 --> 00:14:00,436 Speaker 1: a bar and they'd get food, or they'd get water. 238 00:14:00,916 --> 00:14:07,636 Speaker 1: And he thought that by understanding how payoffs influenced the 239 00:14:07,716 --> 00:14:13,036 Speaker 1: behavior of rats, would understand what governed all the voluntary 240 00:14:13,116 --> 00:14:17,596 Speaker 1: behavior of all living things. He didn't care about rats, 241 00:14:17,636 --> 00:14:21,036 Speaker 1: He cared about people. But he thought that in this 242 00:14:21,156 --> 00:14:25,636 Speaker 1: little simple environment, you basically were capturing why people work 243 00:14:25,676 --> 00:14:28,236 Speaker 1: hard in the workplace because they want a paycheck or 244 00:14:28,356 --> 00:14:32,276 Speaker 1: bonus or promotion. And that's the nature of human motivation 245 00:14:32,516 --> 00:14:36,196 Speaker 1: is we do things to get things. This is very 246 00:14:36,316 --> 00:14:39,596 Speaker 1: much in the spirit of Adam Smith, the father of 247 00:14:39,676 --> 00:14:44,196 Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution. Skinner's work finally gave Smith's ideas the 248 00:14:44,316 --> 00:14:49,036 Speaker 1: scientific validation they needed. His rats provided proof that organisms 249 00:14:49,156 --> 00:14:52,116 Speaker 1: are in fact lazy, that they needed a reward for 250 00:14:52,196 --> 00:14:55,196 Speaker 1: getting off their butts, and that they'd probably never find 251 00:14:55,276 --> 00:14:59,836 Speaker 1: work to be inherently worth doing or fun, which means 252 00:15:00,116 --> 00:15:02,316 Speaker 1: if you want to get people to work, you got 253 00:15:02,316 --> 00:15:05,036 Speaker 1: to give him a reward. But Barry argues that there's 254 00:15:05,036 --> 00:15:07,276 Speaker 1: a problem with this. People are so lazy you got 255 00:15:07,276 --> 00:15:10,956 Speaker 1: to pay them. View the them is it's flat out wrong. 256 00:15:11,436 --> 00:15:14,116 Speaker 1: People won't work if they don't get paid, and they 257 00:15:14,156 --> 00:15:17,156 Speaker 1: need to make enough money to support themselves in their family. 258 00:15:17,716 --> 00:15:21,436 Speaker 1: But once that's done, that's not really what motivates people. 259 00:15:21,476 --> 00:15:24,556 Speaker 1: What motivates people is they want to be working on 260 00:15:24,636 --> 00:15:29,316 Speaker 1: something that matters, which from most of the time means 261 00:15:29,396 --> 00:15:31,916 Speaker 1: has an impact on the lives of other people, not 262 00:15:32,236 --> 00:15:35,996 Speaker 1: curing cancer impact, It could be a small impact. They 263 00:15:36,116 --> 00:15:40,436 Speaker 1: want work that engages them, that forces them to think, 264 00:15:40,476 --> 00:15:43,356 Speaker 1: to be active. They want work that's vary, not the 265 00:15:43,396 --> 00:15:46,796 Speaker 1: same thing over and over again. They want work that's challenging, 266 00:15:46,956 --> 00:15:52,556 Speaker 1: and all those things make jobs good. Given a constant pay, 267 00:15:52,756 --> 00:15:57,476 Speaker 1: these sorts of intrinsic rewards, feeling engaged, finding meaning, getting creative, 268 00:15:57,916 --> 00:16:01,676 Speaker 1: they make work worth doing and allowing workers to experience 269 00:16:01,716 --> 00:16:04,756 Speaker 1: these internal rewards, it turns out, would be a smarter 270 00:16:04,876 --> 00:16:08,196 Speaker 1: thing for employers to focus on than a paycheck, because 271 00:16:08,196 --> 00:16:10,476 Speaker 1: a growing body of research shows that if you want 272 00:16:10,476 --> 00:16:13,116 Speaker 1: good work done, you might want to try making your 273 00:16:13,116 --> 00:16:16,196 Speaker 1: employees jobs a little happier. You want people who show 274 00:16:16,276 --> 00:16:18,396 Speaker 1: up in the office every day because they want to 275 00:16:18,396 --> 00:16:20,996 Speaker 1: be in the office every day, and who leave every 276 00:16:21,076 --> 00:16:24,556 Speaker 1: day feeling like somebody's life has been made better because 277 00:16:24,556 --> 00:16:27,356 Speaker 1: of what they did. But if that's the case, why 278 00:16:27,396 --> 00:16:30,756 Speaker 1: do so many careers lack things like meaning or engagement. 279 00:16:31,436 --> 00:16:34,516 Speaker 1: Why do so many people hate their jobs? The reason, 280 00:16:34,596 --> 00:16:37,356 Speaker 1: according to Barry, is that employers bought into a self 281 00:16:37,396 --> 00:16:40,756 Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecy. They're working with the same wrong theory of 282 00:16:40,836 --> 00:16:44,436 Speaker 1: human motivation that Smith had hundreds of years ago, that 283 00:16:44,596 --> 00:16:47,436 Speaker 1: people are lazy and that money is the only way 284 00:16:47,476 --> 00:16:50,956 Speaker 1: to motivate them. So you create a world in which 285 00:16:51,596 --> 00:16:56,076 Speaker 1: Smith's vision is true. You create a world in which meaning, 286 00:16:56,236 --> 00:17:00,796 Speaker 1: engagement autonomy, control, and challenge have all been eliminated. And 287 00:17:00,836 --> 00:17:02,956 Speaker 1: then you look at you point to people working in 288 00:17:02,956 --> 00:17:05,476 Speaker 1: this world, and you say, see, I told you. People 289 00:17:05,556 --> 00:17:07,916 Speaker 1: just do it for the pay. And as Skinner showed, 290 00:17:08,116 --> 00:17:11,716 Speaker 1: rewards do work. People will do mind numbing jobs like 291 00:17:11,796 --> 00:17:14,876 Speaker 1: sticking heads on pins over and over and over. But 292 00:17:14,956 --> 00:17:17,396 Speaker 1: they won't do it because of the normal human motivations 293 00:17:17,916 --> 00:17:20,996 Speaker 1: for meaning or passion or any of the important things 294 00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:22,516 Speaker 1: that make us want to get up in the morning. 295 00:17:23,476 --> 00:17:27,076 Speaker 1: And that worries Berry. The pin factory division of labor 296 00:17:27,236 --> 00:17:30,476 Speaker 1: still reigns in lots and lots of modern jobs, from 297 00:17:30,516 --> 00:17:34,156 Speaker 1: boring data entry work to tedious telephone sales to the 298 00:17:34,156 --> 00:17:36,716 Speaker 1: workers who have to put buns on fast food hamburgers 299 00:17:36,716 --> 00:17:39,956 Speaker 1: over and over and over. Essentially, you've created a Skinner box. 300 00:17:39,996 --> 00:17:44,156 Speaker 1: You've created an environment in which Smith's view is correct 301 00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:48,036 Speaker 1: because you've eliminated every other factor that might influence people. 302 00:17:48,436 --> 00:17:50,996 Speaker 1: Barry has also seen this trend emerging in careers that 303 00:17:51,036 --> 00:17:53,996 Speaker 1: are often considered to be much higher status and more skilled. 304 00:17:54,636 --> 00:17:56,716 Speaker 1: They are now also filled with the sorts of carrots 305 00:17:56,716 --> 00:17:59,436 Speaker 1: and sticks you need when people's hearts and minds aren't 306 00:17:59,436 --> 00:18:02,636 Speaker 1: into what they're doing. Law firms that force attorneys to 307 00:18:02,676 --> 00:18:06,436 Speaker 1: clock their every second with clients, HMOs that regulate doctors 308 00:18:06,476 --> 00:18:09,796 Speaker 1: interactions with patients, Lots and lots of jobs are starting 309 00:18:09,836 --> 00:18:12,676 Speaker 1: to feel more like a rat race because they're specifically 310 00:18:12,716 --> 00:18:16,556 Speaker 1: designed to treat us like skinners rodents. The biggest irony 311 00:18:16,596 --> 00:18:19,396 Speaker 1: of this, though, is that by removing meaning from work, 312 00:18:19,676 --> 00:18:23,396 Speaker 1: you inadvertently make people more miserable, and that means you 313 00:18:23,436 --> 00:18:28,476 Speaker 1: get less productive, less motivated, and less conscientious workers. Removing 314 00:18:28,556 --> 00:18:31,956 Speaker 1: meaning can jeopardize a business's profits, and it makes you 315 00:18:32,036 --> 00:18:35,196 Speaker 1: wonder why it is that people who want to make 316 00:18:35,236 --> 00:18:39,236 Speaker 1: money are leaving money on the table by creating workplaces 317 00:18:39,276 --> 00:18:44,836 Speaker 1: that drive productivity out of their workforce. No effort is 318 00:18:44,876 --> 00:18:49,556 Speaker 1: put into creating workplaces where people want to be. The 319 00:18:49,556 --> 00:18:52,316 Speaker 1: good news, though, is that there is another path to follow. 320 00:18:52,676 --> 00:18:56,876 Speaker 1: You can make reasonably unattractive work attractive if you make 321 00:18:56,956 --> 00:19:00,716 Speaker 1: people feel trusted and important in the work that they do. 322 00:19:01,156 --> 00:19:03,396 Speaker 1: And that's why I want to turn back to Marty. 323 00:19:03,436 --> 00:19:06,236 Speaker 1: I mean, Marty's job seems to fit the definition of 324 00:19:06,356 --> 00:19:09,756 Speaker 1: reasonably unattractive work cause aut for just to pick up 325 00:19:09,796 --> 00:19:12,116 Speaker 1: a daddy animal or something, and some of that can 326 00:19:12,116 --> 00:19:15,876 Speaker 1: be pretty not very pleasant. In fact, when Marty first 327 00:19:15,916 --> 00:19:18,956 Speaker 1: got into exterminating, he was focused on the same external 328 00:19:18,996 --> 00:19:21,716 Speaker 1: rewards that many of us used to pick a new career. 329 00:19:21,956 --> 00:19:25,236 Speaker 1: I was doing a maintenance work at a local newspaper 330 00:19:25,476 --> 00:19:28,636 Speaker 1: and I saw an ad pest control company vehicle. Take 331 00:19:28,716 --> 00:19:30,236 Speaker 1: That was really cool to me. I was like, twenty 332 00:19:30,316 --> 00:19:32,036 Speaker 1: years old, they're going to give me a company vehicle 333 00:19:32,036 --> 00:19:34,316 Speaker 1: a take on. Wow. But if you ask Marty what 334 00:19:34,396 --> 00:19:37,516 Speaker 1: he loves about this career forty years later, that company 335 00:19:37,516 --> 00:19:39,676 Speaker 1: car has little to do with it. I just love 336 00:19:39,716 --> 00:19:41,716 Speaker 1: the variety. I love you never know where you're going 337 00:19:41,756 --> 00:19:44,156 Speaker 1: to be from one day to the next. Just yesterday, 338 00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:45,796 Speaker 1: I was taking a possum off of a roof. I 339 00:19:45,836 --> 00:19:47,876 Speaker 1: don't know how it got up on a roof. It's 340 00:19:47,916 --> 00:19:50,836 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just it's fun. When Marty gets 341 00:19:50,836 --> 00:19:53,516 Speaker 1: talking about what he loves about his job, you're in 342 00:19:53,596 --> 00:19:57,036 Speaker 1: for a really long conversation, because pest control gives him 343 00:19:57,156 --> 00:20:00,236 Speaker 1: lots and lots of the internal rewards that science shows 344 00:20:00,276 --> 00:20:04,636 Speaker 1: us makes his job worth doing. Like variety and mental challenge, 345 00:20:04,716 --> 00:20:07,356 Speaker 1: it's about solving problems more or less. I remember chasing 346 00:20:07,396 --> 00:20:10,676 Speaker 1: a bat out of one of the libraries. Actually here 347 00:20:10,676 --> 00:20:14,116 Speaker 1: at Yale, and it was it was rather difficult. We 348 00:20:14,156 --> 00:20:15,756 Speaker 1: had to bring an extension ladder in and while the 349 00:20:15,796 --> 00:20:17,316 Speaker 1: way up to the top of the ladder with him 350 00:20:17,356 --> 00:20:20,076 Speaker 1: that and it flew away and it just went into 351 00:20:20,116 --> 00:20:22,436 Speaker 1: event and never never was heard from again. You just 352 00:20:22,476 --> 00:20:24,516 Speaker 1: never know what you're gonna get and one day to 353 00:20:24,556 --> 00:20:27,316 Speaker 1: the next. Marty's job also gives him a sense of 354 00:20:27,356 --> 00:20:31,356 Speaker 1: meaning beyond just working through creative solutions to problems. He 355 00:20:31,396 --> 00:20:35,316 Speaker 1: also gets to help some very scared people. I had 356 00:20:35,356 --> 00:20:37,436 Speaker 1: a student once that woke up and saw a cockroach 357 00:20:37,516 --> 00:20:39,676 Speaker 1: on her bedroom door, which was about six feet across 358 00:20:39,676 --> 00:20:42,956 Speaker 1: the room, totally terrified, in tears, wouldn't get out of 359 00:20:42,956 --> 00:20:47,116 Speaker 1: bed until it was solved. So going there and solving 360 00:20:47,196 --> 00:20:49,196 Speaker 1: something like that really, yeah, you know, it makes you. 361 00:20:49,276 --> 00:20:51,676 Speaker 1: It makes you feel good. I get a lot of 362 00:20:51,716 --> 00:20:54,036 Speaker 1: thank you from the kids. Marty also gets to help 363 00:20:54,076 --> 00:20:57,076 Speaker 1: his clients overcome the feelings of shame they have about 364 00:20:57,116 --> 00:21:00,036 Speaker 1: requiring his services in the first place. I try to 365 00:21:00,076 --> 00:21:01,996 Speaker 1: explain to him that any it can happen to anybody. 366 00:21:02,076 --> 00:21:05,756 Speaker 1: People get bugs, people get cockroaches the cleanest environments. It 367 00:21:05,796 --> 00:21:09,236 Speaker 1: calms him down a bit, calms their fares and you know, 368 00:21:09,436 --> 00:21:12,116 Speaker 1: they're less embarrassed. Do you think you do it if 369 00:21:12,116 --> 00:21:14,716 Speaker 1: they didn't pay you? I mean helping people? Yeah, because 370 00:21:15,036 --> 00:21:17,396 Speaker 1: you know a neighbor or something and it comes over, 371 00:21:17,436 --> 00:21:19,076 Speaker 1: Hey I have a bees and ask or something like that, 372 00:21:19,116 --> 00:21:21,796 Speaker 1: and you've had the the experience and taking care of it. 373 00:21:21,916 --> 00:21:23,556 Speaker 1: Or how do I get rid of the squirrels in 374 00:21:23,596 --> 00:21:25,956 Speaker 1: my attic? Or Yeah, I think I'd still do it. 375 00:21:26,316 --> 00:21:28,116 Speaker 1: There's really no other job like it. It's such a 376 00:21:28,196 --> 00:21:31,916 Speaker 1: unique position, meaning different people, different problems. Every day is different. 377 00:21:32,076 --> 00:21:35,156 Speaker 1: I do feel grateful and lucky that that I'm doing. 378 00:21:35,236 --> 00:21:38,196 Speaker 1: Us human beings aren't lab rats in a skinner box. 379 00:21:38,636 --> 00:21:42,356 Speaker 1: We're motivated not just by monetary rewards, but by variety, 380 00:21:42,716 --> 00:21:45,876 Speaker 1: challenge and having a positive impact on other people's lives. 381 00:21:46,556 --> 00:21:48,996 Speaker 1: These are the things that get workers like Marty out 382 00:21:49,036 --> 00:21:52,156 Speaker 1: of bed on a Monday morning. The problem is that 383 00:21:52,236 --> 00:21:54,476 Speaker 1: a lot of us don't experience the same joy that 384 00:21:54,556 --> 00:21:57,196 Speaker 1: Marty finds in his work. But you don't need to 385 00:21:57,276 --> 00:21:59,596 Speaker 1: quit your job to find the happiness that he enjoys. 386 00:22:00,356 --> 00:22:03,236 Speaker 1: There are evidence based strategies you can use to enrich 387 00:22:03,316 --> 00:22:06,836 Speaker 1: your work, no matter what your actual job description. We'll 388 00:22:06,916 --> 00:22:09,276 Speaker 1: learn about all those strategies when the happy in his 389 00:22:09,396 --> 00:22:23,196 Speaker 1: lab returns in a moment. Most teenage obsessions revolve around bands, 390 00:22:23,396 --> 00:22:27,796 Speaker 1: or sports or political causes. Amy Razneski found herself drawn 391 00:22:27,836 --> 00:22:30,996 Speaker 1: to something very different, a topic she turned over and 392 00:22:31,036 --> 00:22:33,436 Speaker 1: over in her young mind. It has taken me a 393 00:22:33,476 --> 00:22:35,996 Speaker 1: really long time to figure out why it's sort of 394 00:22:36,036 --> 00:22:38,876 Speaker 1: weird for a teenager to become interested in something like this. 395 00:22:39,116 --> 00:22:41,876 Speaker 1: What was the thing that had Amy so puzzled? Well, 396 00:22:41,916 --> 00:22:44,316 Speaker 1: she looked around at the people in her life, people 397 00:22:44,356 --> 00:22:47,716 Speaker 1: in her family, her neighborhood, in stores and offices, and 398 00:22:47,836 --> 00:22:50,996 Speaker 1: she saw a vivid and troubling divide and seeing people 399 00:22:50,996 --> 00:22:54,076 Speaker 1: who were working incredibly hard but feeling at the end 400 00:22:54,116 --> 00:22:56,836 Speaker 1: of the day kind of maybe empty, maybe not too 401 00:22:56,916 --> 00:22:59,836 Speaker 1: strong a word about what it all meant, Versus people 402 00:22:59,836 --> 00:23:03,036 Speaker 1: who felt like they bounded out of work every day 403 00:23:03,076 --> 00:23:06,116 Speaker 1: to come home feeling as though they had done something 404 00:23:06,156 --> 00:23:08,916 Speaker 1: that really mattered and they had done it well and 405 00:23:09,196 --> 00:23:12,556 Speaker 1: had changed people's lives. And the thing that's been for me, 406 00:23:12,676 --> 00:23:15,676 Speaker 1: the most fascinating part of this puzzle is that it's 407 00:23:15,716 --> 00:23:18,796 Speaker 1: not necessarily contingent on the kind of work people are doing. 408 00:23:18,836 --> 00:23:21,796 Speaker 1: And I think that's a very cool puzzle to trying 409 00:23:21,796 --> 00:23:24,876 Speaker 1: to unpack and think about figuring that puzzle out. Rot 410 00:23:24,916 --> 00:23:27,756 Speaker 1: Amy here to Yale, where she's now a professor at 411 00:23:27,756 --> 00:23:30,276 Speaker 1: the School of Management. There's a whole research literature that 412 00:23:30,316 --> 00:23:32,236 Speaker 1: analyzes kind of what's a good job and what's a 413 00:23:32,236 --> 00:23:34,156 Speaker 1: bad job, and it just looks at the job like 414 00:23:34,196 --> 00:23:38,156 Speaker 1: what is the person's doing, And as psychologists, we knew 415 00:23:38,436 --> 00:23:41,356 Speaker 1: there might be actually more going on here in terms 416 00:23:41,356 --> 00:23:44,196 Speaker 1: of how people really experience this work and think about 417 00:23:44,236 --> 00:23:47,556 Speaker 1: this work. Research back in the nineteen eighties had shown 418 00:23:47,556 --> 00:23:50,236 Speaker 1: that people tend to take one of three orientations towards 419 00:23:50,276 --> 00:23:52,596 Speaker 1: their work. They either think of it as a job, 420 00:23:52,956 --> 00:23:55,956 Speaker 1: a career, or a calling. So people who view their 421 00:23:55,996 --> 00:23:58,996 Speaker 1: work primarily as a job see the work as a 422 00:23:59,076 --> 00:24:01,796 Speaker 1: means to a financial end. People who've either worked with 423 00:24:01,796 --> 00:24:06,036 Speaker 1: a career orientation see the work as primarily a means 424 00:24:06,076 --> 00:24:08,636 Speaker 1: to advance within the field or the work or the 425 00:24:08,636 --> 00:24:11,476 Speaker 1: occupy they're in. It's stepping stone to the next thing 426 00:24:11,556 --> 00:24:13,756 Speaker 1: that's going to come. Whereas people who see the work 427 00:24:13,756 --> 00:24:18,396 Speaker 1: as a calling are not focused on financial outcomes primarily 428 00:24:18,636 --> 00:24:22,196 Speaker 1: or career advancement primarily, but instead are primarily focused on 429 00:24:22,836 --> 00:24:25,236 Speaker 1: the work itself. They see the work as an end 430 00:24:25,276 --> 00:24:27,916 Speaker 1: in itself. These are people who, again if they hit 431 00:24:27,956 --> 00:24:30,636 Speaker 1: the lottery or something like that, feel so deeply about 432 00:24:30,676 --> 00:24:32,556 Speaker 1: the work that they're doing, feel fulfilled by it, feel 433 00:24:32,556 --> 00:24:34,356 Speaker 1: like it's a contribution that they would be more likely 434 00:24:34,396 --> 00:24:38,236 Speaker 1: to want to stay involved in it. And interestingly, they 435 00:24:38,276 --> 00:24:40,836 Speaker 1: see the work, regardless of what the job is, as 436 00:24:40,916 --> 00:24:43,316 Speaker 1: contributing to the world in a meaningful way to make 437 00:24:43,316 --> 00:24:46,076 Speaker 1: it a better place. But the question that fascinated Amy 438 00:24:46,596 --> 00:24:49,596 Speaker 1: was how a person comes to consider their work a calling. 439 00:24:50,356 --> 00:24:52,676 Speaker 1: You might think the way to test this question would 440 00:24:52,676 --> 00:24:55,276 Speaker 1: be to study professionals that we technically think of as 441 00:24:55,316 --> 00:25:00,156 Speaker 1: well respected surgeons, concert pianists, podcast hosts, that kind of thing. 442 00:25:00,796 --> 00:25:04,316 Speaker 1: But Amy did something different. She studied how positive work 443 00:25:04,316 --> 00:25:08,556 Speaker 1: orientations develop and seemingly not so great jobs. We were 444 00:25:08,596 --> 00:25:13,236 Speaker 1: really interested in understanding the experience of people who clean 445 00:25:13,396 --> 00:25:17,036 Speaker 1: in hospital, so hospital custodial staff. The duties of a 446 00:25:17,076 --> 00:25:20,276 Speaker 1: hospital janitor are easy to sum up. Mop the floors, 447 00:25:20,436 --> 00:25:24,076 Speaker 1: sweep up wash soiled bed linens, dispose of garbage, bins 448 00:25:24,076 --> 00:25:28,036 Speaker 1: filled with hazardous waste. It's not fun stuff. These sorts 449 00:25:28,036 --> 00:25:31,516 Speaker 1: of physicians don't require much previous experience or a formal 450 00:25:31,636 --> 00:25:36,276 Speaker 1: education becoming a hospital janitor is considered neither glamorous nor 451 00:25:36,316 --> 00:25:39,036 Speaker 1: all that skilled. But Amy wasn't interested in what the 452 00:25:39,076 --> 00:25:42,156 Speaker 1: typical person thought of this work. She was interested in 453 00:25:42,196 --> 00:25:45,836 Speaker 1: how the cleaning staff themselves describe their rules. So she 454 00:25:45,996 --> 00:25:48,676 Speaker 1: just asked a group of hospital workers, how skilled do 455 00:25:48,676 --> 00:25:52,716 Speaker 1: you think your job? Is? Simple question, except it yielded 456 00:25:52,716 --> 00:25:56,316 Speaker 1: two really different answers. We had one set of participants 457 00:25:56,316 --> 00:25:58,316 Speaker 1: who said it's not very skilled at all, and we 458 00:25:58,356 --> 00:26:00,556 Speaker 1: had another set of participants who reported the work was 459 00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:04,116 Speaker 1: really quite skilled. Amy figured she must have inadvertently tested 460 00:26:04,356 --> 00:26:08,436 Speaker 1: two kinds of staff members once with different duties. Maybe 461 00:26:08,436 --> 00:26:11,396 Speaker 1: one group had more senior janitors or more specialist roles, 462 00:26:11,956 --> 00:26:14,236 Speaker 1: but that turned out not to be the case. Nothing 463 00:26:14,356 --> 00:26:17,076 Speaker 1: about the structure of their job explained this difference, so 464 00:26:17,116 --> 00:26:21,036 Speaker 1: Amy dug a little deeper. Those who considered themselves unskilled 465 00:26:21,356 --> 00:26:24,516 Speaker 1: were generally dissatisfied with their jobs. They were part of 466 00:26:24,516 --> 00:26:27,636 Speaker 1: that two thirds of Americans who were disengaged from their work. 467 00:26:28,476 --> 00:26:31,396 Speaker 1: But the staff members who saw their jobs requiring skill 468 00:26:31,956 --> 00:26:34,916 Speaker 1: absolutely loved what they did for a living. Many of 469 00:26:34,956 --> 00:26:37,876 Speaker 1: them even saw it as a calling and acted accordingly. 470 00:26:37,916 --> 00:26:40,436 Speaker 1: They were meant to be kind of wafting in and 471 00:26:40,476 --> 00:26:42,756 Speaker 1: out of spaces and making sure that those spaces were clean. 472 00:26:43,236 --> 00:26:46,676 Speaker 1: They were instructed to not interact with patients, and what 473 00:26:46,676 --> 00:26:49,596 Speaker 1: we were finding was they were engaging in enormous amounts 474 00:26:49,596 --> 00:26:53,556 Speaker 1: of patient care and attentiveness to what was happening with 475 00:26:53,636 --> 00:26:56,436 Speaker 1: patients and their families, what it was people might need. 476 00:26:56,916 --> 00:27:00,316 Speaker 1: They really engaged the job sort of quite differently and 477 00:27:00,556 --> 00:27:03,116 Speaker 1: saw and described what it was that they were doing 478 00:27:03,156 --> 00:27:07,436 Speaker 1: there as helping patients to heal. Amy calls this technique 479 00:27:07,556 --> 00:27:11,796 Speaker 1: job crafting, of redesigning the specific work you do to 480 00:27:11,916 --> 00:27:15,556 Speaker 1: match your personal strengths and values and thus amplify the 481 00:27:15,636 --> 00:27:18,716 Speaker 1: sense of meaning you get from your job. One of 482 00:27:18,756 --> 00:27:22,156 Speaker 1: Amy's favorite examples of job crafting came from a janitor 483 00:27:22,156 --> 00:27:25,396 Speaker 1: who worked on a unit caring for coma patients, people 484 00:27:25,436 --> 00:27:28,756 Speaker 1: who were severely ill, fully unconscious, and in need of 485 00:27:28,796 --> 00:27:32,596 Speaker 1: a miracle. That staff member did the usual duties mopping 486 00:27:32,636 --> 00:27:35,876 Speaker 1: and tidying, but she also did one additional task that 487 00:27:35,996 --> 00:27:38,756 Speaker 1: wasn't strictly part of her job description and that no 488 00:27:38,756 --> 00:27:40,876 Speaker 1: one had told her to do. She would take the 489 00:27:41,116 --> 00:27:43,716 Speaker 1: artwork off the walls of the hospital rooms in this 490 00:27:43,876 --> 00:27:46,116 Speaker 1: unit and swish it around to just sort of mix 491 00:27:46,156 --> 00:27:49,836 Speaker 1: things up. Even though these patients were not conscious. She 492 00:27:50,116 --> 00:27:53,396 Speaker 1: hoped that maybe by changing something in their environment that 493 00:27:53,476 --> 00:27:55,116 Speaker 1: even if it seemed like they weren't aware of what 494 00:27:55,156 --> 00:27:58,156 Speaker 1: was going on, maybe it would stimulate something or spark something, 495 00:27:58,156 --> 00:28:00,636 Speaker 1: as it was a change that could help promote their 496 00:28:00,676 --> 00:28:03,396 Speaker 1: healing and speed them along whatever journey they would take. 497 00:28:03,756 --> 00:28:07,756 Speaker 1: Another janitor, Amy Encountered, was assigned to a particularly depressing 498 00:28:07,756 --> 00:28:11,036 Speaker 1: set of duties. She had to clean up after patience 499 00:28:11,116 --> 00:28:14,116 Speaker 1: on the cancer ward. Given that chemotherapy makes people very 500 00:28:14,116 --> 00:28:16,356 Speaker 1: sick to their stomach, there was a lot of throwing 501 00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:19,476 Speaker 1: up to contend with. And so this cleaning staff member, 502 00:28:19,476 --> 00:28:21,956 Speaker 1: who again remember by the structure of the job, not 503 00:28:21,996 --> 00:28:23,916 Speaker 1: really supposed to be interacting with patients. You're just supposed 504 00:28:23,956 --> 00:28:28,156 Speaker 1: to go and clean things up. Instead, turn this into 505 00:28:28,396 --> 00:28:32,316 Speaker 1: an opportunity to really bring comfort and humor to the patients, 506 00:28:32,316 --> 00:28:35,836 Speaker 1: because imagine you're an adult. You've just been sick all 507 00:28:35,836 --> 00:28:37,996 Speaker 1: over yourself and all over the floor. It's embarrassing. Now 508 00:28:37,996 --> 00:28:40,316 Speaker 1: somebody has to club and clean this up. You feel awful, right, 509 00:28:40,356 --> 00:28:43,236 Speaker 1: this is not a good moment. And so this cleaning 510 00:28:43,236 --> 00:28:45,996 Speaker 1: staff member would show up and say, I want to 511 00:28:46,076 --> 00:28:50,316 Speaker 1: thank you for getting sick. I have a car, I 512 00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:53,556 Speaker 1: have car payments to make. The more you get sick, 513 00:28:53,956 --> 00:28:56,676 Speaker 1: the more job security I have. And so you have 514 00:28:56,716 --> 00:28:59,556 Speaker 1: someone who's now laughing in the context of this awful 515 00:28:59,596 --> 00:29:03,596 Speaker 1: situation by this transformative set of moves done by someone 516 00:29:03,596 --> 00:29:06,476 Speaker 1: who has gotten not any training and patient care or 517 00:29:06,476 --> 00:29:10,276 Speaker 1: patient interaction, but who has taken upon herself to think about, 518 00:29:10,356 --> 00:29:12,636 Speaker 1: how can I still do the cleanup, still do the 519 00:29:12,636 --> 00:29:14,796 Speaker 1: work that's required of me, but do it in a 520 00:29:14,796 --> 00:29:18,556 Speaker 1: way that's transformative. The relationships that she has with her patients, 521 00:29:18,996 --> 00:29:23,076 Speaker 1: getting to know happy hospital cleaners convinced Amy that jobcrafting 522 00:29:23,276 --> 00:29:26,316 Speaker 1: can have a transformative effect on people's happiness at work. 523 00:29:27,276 --> 00:29:30,316 Speaker 1: She hypothesized that the third of Americans who feel engaged 524 00:29:30,356 --> 00:29:33,476 Speaker 1: with their jobs probably feel that way in part because 525 00:29:33,516 --> 00:29:36,316 Speaker 1: they too jobcraft I think this happens all the time. 526 00:29:36,356 --> 00:29:38,716 Speaker 1: It happens in all kinds of jobs, but I think 527 00:29:38,716 --> 00:29:41,756 Speaker 1: it's important to recognize that it happens in jobs where 528 00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:44,036 Speaker 1: people don't have permission to do it, or they're not 529 00:29:44,156 --> 00:29:47,516 Speaker 1: encouraged to do it. They might actually be forbidden from 530 00:29:47,556 --> 00:29:49,596 Speaker 1: doing it. We can all be better off if we 531 00:29:49,716 --> 00:29:52,676 Speaker 1: just granted people more autonomy to bring their strength into 532 00:29:52,676 --> 00:29:55,116 Speaker 1: the work that they're doing, while trusting them that they 533 00:29:55,116 --> 00:29:57,676 Speaker 1: will keep in mind the things that they're responsible to 534 00:29:57,716 --> 00:30:01,356 Speaker 1: do for the organization. Now that Amy has answered the 535 00:30:01,396 --> 00:30:04,356 Speaker 1: question that's bugged her for decades, her research has shifted 536 00:30:04,396 --> 00:30:07,436 Speaker 1: to address a more practical question, how can we get 537 00:30:07,436 --> 00:30:10,836 Speaker 1: more people to jobcraft? Are there interventions that can be 538 00:30:10,876 --> 00:30:14,356 Speaker 1: done that can help people connect more deeply with what 539 00:30:14,396 --> 00:30:16,636 Speaker 1: it is that makes their work meaningful, not just by 540 00:30:16,796 --> 00:30:19,796 Speaker 1: thinking about it, but by encouraging people to redesign the 541 00:30:19,876 --> 00:30:22,316 Speaker 1: job still accomplish what it is they're responsible to the 542 00:30:22,396 --> 00:30:25,116 Speaker 1: organization for accomplishing in the work, but do it in 543 00:30:25,156 --> 00:30:27,556 Speaker 1: such a way that it's tapping the things that they 544 00:30:27,876 --> 00:30:29,756 Speaker 1: care most about, in the ways in which they most 545 00:30:29,756 --> 00:30:32,596 Speaker 1: want to contribute. It's worth mentioning here, though, that deciding 546 00:30:32,636 --> 00:30:34,876 Speaker 1: to pep up your job doesn't mean you can ignore 547 00:30:34,916 --> 00:30:37,156 Speaker 1: the task because you were hired to do. Job crafting 548 00:30:37,356 --> 00:30:40,076 Speaker 1: isn't deciding you know, I'd really love to be the 549 00:30:40,076 --> 00:30:42,716 Speaker 1: company guitarist, So I'm just gonna bring my guitar in 550 00:30:42,836 --> 00:30:45,356 Speaker 1: and play, and I think everybody will appreciate that because 551 00:30:45,396 --> 00:30:48,676 Speaker 1: I'm being my best my best self. The other barrier 552 00:30:48,756 --> 00:30:51,636 Speaker 1: to crafting your job might be your boss. Just like 553 00:30:51,676 --> 00:30:55,476 Speaker 1: Adam Smith watching those pinmakers, your manager might still fall 554 00:30:55,556 --> 00:30:58,156 Speaker 1: for the lie that giving a big paycheck is the 555 00:30:58,196 --> 00:31:00,876 Speaker 1: only way to get the job done. I sometimes hear 556 00:31:00,916 --> 00:31:04,396 Speaker 1: from managers who feel very nervous about this because it 557 00:31:04,396 --> 00:31:06,956 Speaker 1: means giving up control. We can't possibly allow our employees 558 00:31:06,996 --> 00:31:08,116 Speaker 1: to do this. It would be a mess. You know, 559 00:31:08,156 --> 00:31:11,436 Speaker 1: people would be you know, freestyling and off roading or 560 00:31:11,516 --> 00:31:13,956 Speaker 1: you know, doing things that would be really problematic in 561 00:31:13,996 --> 00:31:18,276 Speaker 1: the organization. And my response to that is, well, actually, 562 00:31:18,516 --> 00:31:20,636 Speaker 1: if this is how you see it, what I can 563 00:31:20,676 --> 00:31:23,596 Speaker 1: tell you is they're already job crafting, because this is 564 00:31:23,596 --> 00:31:26,156 Speaker 1: happening everywhere. It's just that they're hiding it from you. 565 00:31:26,556 --> 00:31:28,556 Speaker 1: And so you have a choice. Is this something that 566 00:31:28,596 --> 00:31:31,116 Speaker 1: you want to help facilitate and encourage and what have you, 567 00:31:31,236 --> 00:31:33,396 Speaker 1: or you want to continue to sort of drive this 568 00:31:33,476 --> 00:31:36,596 Speaker 1: underground with employees who will still take the degrees of 569 00:31:36,636 --> 00:31:40,316 Speaker 1: freedom they can find to derive more meaning and more 570 00:31:40,356 --> 00:31:42,436 Speaker 1: of the kind of identity they want to enact in 571 00:31:42,476 --> 00:31:44,676 Speaker 1: the work in any way they can and how they're 572 00:31:44,716 --> 00:31:49,116 Speaker 1: doing the work. While I'm certainly not praying that my 573 00:31:49,156 --> 00:31:53,476 Speaker 1: house gets infested with rats, bats, or possums, or mice, hornets, termites, 574 00:31:53,596 --> 00:31:57,756 Speaker 1: or roaches. I do enjoy Marty's and frequent visits. His 575 00:31:57,876 --> 00:31:59,876 Speaker 1: job is to set up trapped and put down poison, 576 00:32:00,436 --> 00:32:02,476 Speaker 1: but I now realize that he does all the things 577 00:32:02,516 --> 00:32:05,956 Speaker 1: that Amy studies in her job, crafting work. He genuinely 578 00:32:06,076 --> 00:32:09,556 Speaker 1: enjoys the puzzles that has spring he and traits on 579 00:32:09,556 --> 00:32:12,116 Speaker 1: the people who need his help, and he works quickly 580 00:32:12,116 --> 00:32:16,316 Speaker 1: and calmly to reassure his jittery clients. It's mixing metaphors, 581 00:32:16,596 --> 00:32:20,156 Speaker 1: but if exterminators had a bedside manner, Marty has perfected it. 582 00:32:20,916 --> 00:32:23,876 Speaker 1: Sure he kills bugs, but his real focus seems to 583 00:32:23,876 --> 00:32:26,556 Speaker 1: be eradicating the stress and worry of the people who 584 00:32:26,596 --> 00:32:29,276 Speaker 1: need his help. I asked Marty if during the forty 585 00:32:29,356 --> 00:32:32,476 Speaker 1: years in this job, he's ever daydreamed about doing something else, 586 00:32:33,036 --> 00:32:36,756 Speaker 1: becoming a cop or a firefighter. Maybe I've thought about 587 00:32:36,756 --> 00:32:39,916 Speaker 1: it in the past, honestly, but I've always come back 588 00:32:39,916 --> 00:32:42,836 Speaker 1: to this, and yeah, I do feel grateful. If you 589 00:32:42,956 --> 00:32:45,756 Speaker 1: really hate your job, if it's making you ill, or 590 00:32:45,796 --> 00:32:48,956 Speaker 1: if there's a bad workplace culture or discrimination, or if 591 00:32:48,956 --> 00:32:51,476 Speaker 1: you're not even making a living wage, then you should 592 00:32:51,516 --> 00:32:53,996 Speaker 1: quit as soon as you can and search for something better. 593 00:32:54,516 --> 00:32:56,956 Speaker 1: But if you're simply feeling kind of disengaged from your 594 00:32:56,996 --> 00:33:00,556 Speaker 1: daily work, then give job crafting a try, because that 595 00:33:00,716 --> 00:33:04,036 Speaker 1: dream job that you fantasize about it doesn't really exist. 596 00:33:04,756 --> 00:33:07,236 Speaker 1: The research shows that any job can turn into a 597 00:33:07,276 --> 00:33:10,756 Speaker 1: calling if you bring the right attic too, and maybe 598 00:33:10,756 --> 00:33:14,036 Speaker 1: a few science back tips from the Happiness Lab with me, 599 00:33:14,436 --> 00:33:29,316 Speaker 1: Doctor Laurie Santos. The Happiness Lab is co written and 600 00:33:29,316 --> 00:33:32,676 Speaker 1: produced by Ryan Dilley. Our original music was composed by 601 00:33:32,756 --> 00:33:36,756 Speaker 1: Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, mixing and mastering by Evan Viola. 602 00:33:37,156 --> 00:33:40,676 Speaker 1: Pete Naton also helped with production. Joseph Fridman checked our 603 00:33:40,716 --> 00:33:43,396 Speaker 1: facts and our editing was done by Sophie Crane mckibbon. 604 00:33:43,716 --> 00:33:48,116 Speaker 1: Special thanks to mail LaBelle, Carli Migliori, Heather Faine, Julia Barton, 605 00:33:48,396 --> 00:33:52,756 Speaker 1: Maggie Taylor, Maya Kanig, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent, Ben Davis. 606 00:33:53,316 --> 00:33:55,796 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries 607 00:33:55,876 --> 00:33:58,716 Speaker 1: and me, Doctor Laurie Santos.